00:00SPEAKER- I feel like we need a dee, dee, dee, dee, dee, dee, dee,
00:03SPEAKERbreaking news.
00:04SPEAKER- Breaking news.
00:05SPEAKER- Breaking news.
00:06SPEAKERBellevue, Washington.
00:08SPEAKERNo, hey, it's a steam frame embargo day.
00:10SPEAKERIt's here.
00:11SPEAKER(upbeat music)
00:30SPEAKER(upbeat music continues)
00:40SPEAKER- I guess technically it's been here
00:41SPEAKERfor like a week and four days.
00:43SPEAKERThe time we record this, I've had it for about a week.
00:45SPEAKER- Okay.
00:46SPEAKER- So it arrived on a Friday
00:47SPEAKERand we're recording this on a Friday morning.
00:50SPEAKERYou guys are hearing this at 10 o'clock on Monday.
00:52SPEAKERAnd I just wanted to share my first run experiences
00:58SPEAKERwith this thing.
00:59SPEAKERWe're gonna do a full episode I think next week
01:01SPEAKERwhere we talk about kind of the frame
01:03SPEAKERwhere it lives in the whole steam ecosystem,
01:05SPEAKERhardware ecosystem, and what's going on with the whole,
01:10SPEAKERlike the whole valve.
01:11SPEAKERI don't know, they built a hardware ecosystem
01:14SPEAKERand we'll have a guest on for that.
01:15SPEAKERSomebody who knows more about VR stuff,
01:17SPEAKERyou can imagine who it might be next week.
01:20SPEAKERBut here's first impressions.
01:24SPEAKER- Go on.
01:25SPEAKER- It seems pretty good.
01:26SPEAKER- Okay, all right, strumble.
01:28SPEAKER- I feel a little bit like Rip Van Winkle, but for VR,
01:32SPEAKERlike I haven't paid attention to VR hardware in a minute
01:35SPEAKERand putting on a modern standalone headset
01:39SPEAKERwith like nice pancake optics
01:41SPEAKERand big high resolution screens feels like jumping,
01:44SPEAKERlike the last headset I bought was the Index,
01:46SPEAKERwhich is in a lot of ways--
01:48SPEAKER- Five years, six years now?
01:50SPEAKER- Yeah, kind of in 2020, I think,
01:51SPEAKERis when I got it before Alex came out.
01:53SPEAKER- Yeah, like it's been a minute.
01:55SPEAKERI mean, I know VR headsets are shipping
01:57SPEAKERfrom some of the like specialists,
01:59SPEAKERlike high-end companies that I can never remember
02:01SPEAKERthe names of.
02:02SPEAKER- Pimax and big screen VR and all those are doing stuff.
02:04SPEAKERSo yeah.
02:05SPEAKER- But those are VR companies.
02:06SPEAKERLike for instance, the big general players,
02:08SPEAKERlike your PlayStation VRs and Valve
02:11SPEAKERand you know, just the Oculus, Facebook, Meta, whatever,
02:15SPEAKERlike that hardware has slowed down a bit.
02:18SPEAKER- To come almost completely mainstream.
02:20SPEAKERLike the last mainstream PC headset,
02:22SPEAKERI think that shipped was probably the PSVR2
02:24SPEAKERwith that adapter, right?
02:26SPEAKERSo like it's, I'm coming into this cold,
02:29SPEAKERwhich is one of the main reasons
02:30SPEAKERI don't want to talk about where this lives
02:31SPEAKERin the overall ecosystem.
02:32SPEAKER'Cause I don't have that context.
02:33SPEAKERWe're going to get Norm on to talk about that next week.
02:36SPEAKERBut like it is a modern headset
02:39SPEAKERin that it has an ARM processor.
02:41SPEAKERThis is also the first time Valve has shipped their ARM
02:45SPEAKERto x86, I think, is it a translation layer
02:49SPEAKERor an emulation layer?
02:50SPEAKER- Yes, I believe it is translation.
02:52SPEAKERThat's the thing I'm actually the most interested in,
02:54SPEAKERbut maybe we can dig into that more when Norm is here.
02:56SPEAKER- We can talk about that on this one here too, if you want.
02:58SPEAKER'Cause I've used a little bit of everything.
02:59SPEAKERI haven't done performance numbers.
03:01SPEAKERLike I'm not going to talk about performance numbers here.
03:03SPEAKERI didn't have enough time to do performance testing.
03:05SPEAKERIf you want that stuff,
03:06SPEAKERmy guess is the Steve at GamersNexus
03:08SPEAKERwill have a big giant performance testing video
03:10SPEAKERabout this thing.
03:11SPEAKERYou should go look at that
03:12SPEAKERif you want to find out about performance.
03:15SPEAKERBut yeah, like starting with it is it's really light
03:18SPEAKERcompared to the Quest 1 or the Quest 3.
03:22SPEAKERI never really used the Quest 2 compared to the Apple Vision Pro.
03:25SPEAKERI don't think I've spent any appreciable time
03:27SPEAKERwith a PSVR too, so I don't know about that.
03:28SPEAKERBut it's like, it's significantly lighter
03:31SPEAKERthan the Quest 3 is.
03:33SPEAKERIt's like ski goggles style.
03:35SPEAKERSo it fits on the front of your face.
03:36SPEAKERThere's a big battery on the back of the headband
03:39SPEAKERand like they sell it ergonomics accessory strap
03:44SPEAKERthat goes over the top.
03:45SPEAKERBut it's basically pretty evenly balanced on your head
03:49SPEAKERin the weight of the battery on the back
03:50SPEAKERand the weight of the screen on the front.
03:52SPEAKERThe screen on the front is really close to your eyes,
03:55SPEAKERespecially if you don't wear glasses
03:57SPEAKERand have to wear the, they provide a spacer
04:00SPEAKERthat gives more space between the pad and the goggles
04:03SPEAKERfor people who have glasses or I guess long eyelashes.
04:06SPEAKERBut yeah, it includes things like eye tracking
04:09SPEAKERso they can do foveated rendering,
04:10SPEAKERwhich means they only kind of spend horsepower
04:14SPEAKERrendering pixels exactly where
04:15SPEAKERthe high density portion of your eye is.
04:18SPEAKERThat stuff works, like I didn't,
04:21SPEAKERI can't tell that it's working.
04:22SPEAKERIf that makes sense.
04:23SPEAKER- Did the index not have that?
04:25SPEAKER- Index didn't have that.
04:26SPEAKERIt was just before that stuff started.
04:27SPEAKER- I was gonna say, I thought that felt like around
04:29SPEAKERor after the time that that became a thing.
04:31SPEAKERBut I guess it is more recent than I thought.
04:34SPEAKER- Yeah, there's no, the Quest 3 has eye tracking.
04:37SPEAKERI don't think that the index doesn't.
04:40SPEAKERI feel like some of the other higher res,
04:42SPEAKERlike high end things do for sure.
04:44SPEAKERBut I don't know for sure.
04:45SPEAKERI know that the, actually I don't know
04:47SPEAKERif the Apple Vision Pro does, that's a question
04:49SPEAKERfor Norm probably.
04:49SPEAKER- Does that work?
04:50SPEAKERDo you know if that works transparently with every game
04:52SPEAKERor is that something that the developers
04:53SPEAKERof the games have to support manually?
04:56SPEAKER- So there's, that's a complicated question.
04:59SPEAKERI asked a question, I asked Valve a question
05:01SPEAKERabout that actually, and they said specifically,
05:06SPEAKERI asked if I could see debug visualization
05:08SPEAKERthat lets me see how the foveated rendering works,
05:12SPEAKERwhich you can do by turning off eye tracking
05:14SPEAKERin the VR settings, which locks everything forward.
05:16SPEAKERAnd then you can see the foveated
05:18SPEAKERand the not foveated areas on games
05:20SPEAKERthat support the technique.
05:22SPEAKERThey have an experimental feature
05:23SPEAKERthat adds foveated rendering to compatible games.
05:27SPEAKERI assume there's some sort of like an allow list
05:29SPEAKERon their side without software work from the developer.
05:32SPEAKERI haven't actually downloaded the game to test that yet.
05:35SPEAKERI just got the answer to the questions back
05:36SPEAKERright before we recorded this.
05:37SPEAKERSo I don't, I haven't had a chance to take a look
05:39SPEAKERat that yet and see how it works.
05:42SPEAKERBut on the games that do support it,
05:44SPEAKERlike the ARM, they provided a beta version
05:46SPEAKERof Alex that runs natively on ARM,
05:49SPEAKERand I assume it's doing that.
05:51SPEAKER- Oh, I guess, I don't know why it didn't even occur to me
05:52SPEAKERthey would be doing that.
05:53SPEAKERI just assumed every game would run
05:55SPEAKERthrough their translation layer.
05:56SPEAKERI didn't even think about them
05:57SPEAKERdoing native builds of their stuff.
05:59SPEAKER- I mean, they have two translation layers
06:01SPEAKERthat are shipping in this, I think for the first time,
06:03SPEAKERthe ARM, the FEX, the ARM to x86 emulation layer,
06:07SPEAKERand then there's also Lepton,
06:09SPEAKERwhich is their Android to Linux emulator
06:11SPEAKERin the same way that Prepton, Proton is, I mean, nerd names.
06:15SPEAKER- Well, it's not even just that,
06:17SPEAKERit's just like modern software and gaming in particular
06:20SPEAKERis just layers upon layers of translation
06:22SPEAKERall the way down now.
06:23SPEAKER- Kind of is now.
06:24SPEAKERI assume that that left,
06:25SPEAKERI didn't interact with the Lepton layer at all
06:27SPEAKERthat I'm aware of.
06:28SPEAKERMy assumption is that that's so you can run quest games
06:31SPEAKERon this presumably.
06:32SPEAKER- Of course.
06:33SPEAKER- Or it's like a cross, it's an easier port
06:34SPEAKERrather than having to do a cross compiler or whatever.
06:36SPEAKER- Wait, so what is, I assume this thing
06:38SPEAKERhas some kind of dashboard.
06:39SPEAKERIt starts up to like Boost 2 if you're not playing anything.
06:43SPEAKER- It looks like Steam big picture.
06:44SPEAKER- It's just that interface, right?
06:45SPEAKER- Well, there's a bar at the bottom
06:47SPEAKERthat gives you like a dashboard kind of controls.
06:49SPEAKERSo it's like you can turn on pass through
06:53SPEAKERso you can see the room around you,
06:54SPEAKERor can have the just like a blacked out environment.
06:56SPEAKERYou can do, you can access VR settings from there,
06:59SPEAKERstuff like that.
07:00SPEAKERThere's also a quick thing that lets you choose
07:02SPEAKERlike a performance or battery save mode or check the time
07:06SPEAKERor see your wifi status and stuff like that.
07:09SPEAKERThere's also a column down the right side
07:10SPEAKERthat has the normal Steam big picture menu items.
07:14SPEAKERLike, you know, home, library, store, settings,
07:17SPEAKERall that kind of stuff.
07:18SPEAKERCommunity and whatever else they have over there.
07:20SPEAKERAnd then there's a VR settings pop out there
07:23SPEAKERthat gives you access to things like the refresh rate
07:25SPEAKERof the panel, which ranges from 72 to 144 Hertz.
07:29SPEAKERObviously that has an impact on battery life.
07:33SPEAKERAll of that stuff is accessible in there.
07:35SPEAKERAnd then inside the main window is either a 2D game
07:38SPEAKERthat you're playing.
07:39SPEAKERIf you're playing like a traditional console game,
07:42SPEAKERwhatever you're streaming from a PC
07:44SPEAKERor like the store interface
07:46SPEAKERor the Steam big picture interface the rest of the time.
07:49SPEAKERThe pancake lenses look incredible.
07:51SPEAKERI haven't really spent a lot of time with a VR headset
07:54SPEAKERthat uses the non, the modern lenses.
07:58SPEAKERThese are the new smooth lenses.
08:01SPEAKERThey're not like the Fresnel lenses from the old VR days.
08:06SPEAKERAnd they give you access to a 2160 by 2160 LCD for each eye.
08:12SPEAKERWhich like, I can't see the pixels on with my glasses on,
08:16SPEAKERwhich is kind of my bar for, is this good?
08:18SPEAKER- What is the non-technical just like perceptible difference
08:21SPEAKERbetween those old style lenses and these,
08:23SPEAKERlike just like in one sentence,
08:24SPEAKERlike what is the advantage of the new?
08:26SPEAKER- So the Fresnel lenses,
08:27SPEAKERyou could see kind of the gradations when you look,
08:29SPEAKERwhen you moved your eyes left or right,
08:32SPEAKERyou could see the Fresnel lenses are like the ones
08:34SPEAKERon a lighthouse kind of.
08:36SPEAKERThey have, it's like a stair step design almost in the glass
08:40SPEAKERand you can see that when you're looking through the edges
08:42SPEAKERof the screen.
08:43SPEAKER- I think I remember basically seeing
08:45SPEAKERwhat you're talking about.
08:46SPEAKER- Yeah, it's one of those things.
08:48SPEAKERIt's like MPEG-2 compression artifacts.
08:50SPEAKERYour brain filters that out pretty quickly,
08:52SPEAKERbut when it's not there,
08:53SPEAKERyou absolutely notice it in a positive way.
08:57SPEAKERSo yeah, that stuff is pretty good.
08:59SPEAKERThe tracking is all inside out tracking.
09:01SPEAKERSo there's no lighthouses, no external ports.
09:04SPEAKERIt's, you can walk into a room.
09:06SPEAKERLike I can get, sit in the living room in my chair,
09:08SPEAKERget up, walk into the office, hit a button here,
09:10SPEAKERwalk back in.
09:11SPEAKERThe cameras that they use for tracking
09:13SPEAKERare black and white IR.
09:15SPEAKERSo they're not, like you can't read your phone screen
09:17SPEAKERwith them, you can't see your laptop screen
09:19SPEAKERor your computer screen really.
09:21SPEAKERThere is a company called Arcturus Vision
09:24SPEAKERthat's making an accessory camera
09:26SPEAKERthat kind of fits into an accessory port up under the nose.
09:29SPEAKERIt's 150 bucks.
09:30SPEAKERWe'll talk about it next week with Norm
09:32SPEAKER'cause I think he has one too probably if I had to guess.
09:35SPEAKERAnd we can talk about what that experience is.
09:38SPEAKERIt gives you a much more smoother RGB full color,
09:43SPEAKERsame field of view, kind of almost like an augmented reality
09:47SPEAKERApple Vision Pro kind of experience.
09:48SPEAKERAlthough it's a little smudgier than that in my experience.
09:52SPEAKERSpeakers pipe in from the sides of the headset to your ears.
09:56SPEAKERSo there's no like speakers over your ears.
09:58SPEAKERYou don't have to use AirPods or EarPods
10:00SPEAKERor anything like that.
10:02SPEAKERIt's a little leaky.
10:03SPEAKERLike I wouldn't probably use that in an airplane.
10:04SPEAKERI'd probably connect a set of Bluetooth headphones
10:06SPEAKERor something to it for that.
10:08SPEAKERBut in like sitting in my living room, laying in bed,
10:10SPEAKERsitting in the office, it's totally, totally good.
10:12SPEAKERAnd sounds like shockingly good.
10:16SPEAKERLet's see what else we got.
10:18SPEAKERIt's a soft headband, not a halo,
10:19SPEAKERnot like a PSVR style halo.
10:23SPEAKERThe batteries in the back, the guts of the headset,
10:26SPEAKERlike all the electronics and the optics and everything
10:29SPEAKERare in the little sandwichy looking thing
10:30SPEAKERthat sits on the very front.
10:31SPEAKERAnd you can completely remove that from the headband.
10:34SPEAKERSo presumably people will be able to 3D print
10:37SPEAKERlike different kinds of straps.
10:38SPEAKERAnd they can be able to make like by accessory halo straps
10:41SPEAKERand stuff like that in the future if they sell any of these
10:43SPEAKERor if people design them for the parts.
10:45SPEAKER- Yeah, that's cool.
10:47SPEAKER- And Valve did say that they're gonna make
10:49SPEAKERjust like they have with the deck and the machine,
10:51SPEAKERthey'll make all the CAD,
10:53SPEAKERlike the CAD designs for this accessible
10:55SPEAKERso that people can print accessories and stuff like that.
10:59SPEAKERIt's generally like what I'll say is the depth of the thing
11:02SPEAKERhanging off the front of your face
11:04SPEAKERcounteracted with the batteries.
11:05SPEAKERIt's pretty comfortable.
11:06SPEAKERMy neck was a little sore after the first few days,
11:08SPEAKERbut I'm old and sometimes that happens
11:10SPEAKERjust from sleeping badly.
11:11SPEAKERSo I can't say that it was the VR headset's problem.
11:15SPEAKERIt's just coincidence maybe.
11:19SPEAKERWhat else we got?
11:21SPEAKER- Well, go ahead.
11:22SPEAKERI've got a couple of questions,
11:23SPEAKERbut I don't know if you wanna exhaust.
11:24SPEAKERI mean, I'm mostly worried wondering,
11:26SPEAKERI know you said we're not gonna talk numbers
11:28SPEAKERpertaining to performance, but just generally,
11:30SPEAKERespecially for translated games,
11:32SPEAKERlike just generally what's the experience been?
11:34SPEAKER- It's invisible.
11:35SPEAKERLike with Proton, you have to kind of occasionally,
11:40SPEAKERespecially if you're playing a new game,
11:41SPEAKERyou might have to futz with the Proton version
11:43SPEAKERthat you use and stuff like that.
11:44SPEAKERWith this, it's just absolutely seamless.
11:47SPEAKERLike you either launch the game and it works
11:49SPEAKERor launch the game and it doesn't work.
11:51SPEAKERThey have a Steam frame compatible tag on the store,
11:55SPEAKERjust like they do with the deck and the Steam machine.
12:01SPEAKER- Yeah, what does a failure mode look like
12:03SPEAKERwhen something doesn't work?
12:04SPEAKER- Well, so with VR, the failure mode's really clear.
12:06SPEAKERIf it's not performant enough,
12:07SPEAKERit's gonna make you motion sick.
12:08SPEAKER- Oh, okay, by not work, you mean like it doesn't run well.
12:10SPEAKERSo have you found stuff that doesn't run well?
12:12SPEAKERThat's really what I was driving at is if,
12:14SPEAKERhave you found anything you couldn't play
12:16SPEAKERon this comfortably?
12:17SPEAKER- Well, so that's, it's tricky.
12:18SPEAKER'Cause like there's kind of four modes for this, right?
12:21SPEAKERThere's playing VR stuff locally.
12:24SPEAKERThere's playing 2D games,
12:26SPEAKERlike on a big giant screen in front of you locally.
12:29SPEAKERThere's playing VR stuff streamed from another computer
12:32SPEAKERacross wifi and their own wifi radio that they provide.
12:36SPEAKERAnd then there's also streaming 2D games
12:39SPEAKERfor another computer.
12:40SPEAKERAnd so, yes, there's definitely stuff that doesn't work
12:43SPEAKERplayed locally on the headset.
12:45SPEAKERPlayed locally on the headset is the least used mode
12:50SPEAKERI've used while I've been testing this.
12:52SPEAKER- Okay, interesting.
12:53SPEAKER- The best, the best experience is,
12:58SPEAKERwell, 'cause when you play things locally,
13:00SPEAKERyou seem to be running them at a lower resolution.
13:01SPEAKERIt's like Steam Deck resolution, 1280 by 800,
13:04SPEAKER1280 by 720 or something like that, per eye.
13:07SPEAKERFor VR games versus the full,
13:09SPEAKERif you're streaming from a PC
13:11SPEAKERthat has a real video card in it,
13:13SPEAKERit'll stream the full resolution
13:15SPEAKERand blast that over the wifi to you.
13:17SPEAKERAnd I can't really tell the difference in the local,
13:20SPEAKERlike the resolution and frame rate benefits
13:23SPEAKERare so much greater running on the away machine,
13:27SPEAKERon the non-local machine,
13:30SPEAKERthat it completely counteracts the benefit
13:32SPEAKERof having it running locally at the lower resolution.
13:35SPEAKERIn my experience.
13:37SPEAKERAnd they, so they ship in the box an external wireless radio
13:41SPEAKERthat's like latest gen wifi, six gigahertz,
13:46SPEAKER5.5 and six gigahertz bands,
13:48SPEAKERthat it can, for VR stuff especially,
13:51SPEAKERit will kind of use both your wifi and that at the same time
13:56SPEAKERto give you like the full experience,
14:00SPEAKERlike full frame rate,
14:02SPEAKERlike it's the most seamless streaming I've ever done
14:05SPEAKERwith that radio.
14:06SPEAKERLike the bummer is that it doesn't seem to,
14:08SPEAKERin my experience, use that secondary radio
14:12SPEAKERfor 2D game streaming, which is still as fiddly as it,
14:15SPEAKERit's not as fiddly as it has been in the past,
14:17SPEAKERbut it's still more fiddly than I would like it to be
14:19SPEAKERfor a device that kind of feels like it's primarily
14:21SPEAKERfor playing 2D games on a headset.
14:23SPEAKER- So no complaints about latency or compression
14:25SPEAKERor anything with wireless streaming?
14:27SPEAKER- So on my network with this wifi six,
14:30SPEAKERand then this secondary adapter,
14:33SPEAKERthe VR streaming has been flawless when I'm in range.
14:36SPEAKERWhen I get outside of range of the secondary radio,
14:39SPEAKERit gets a little bit hinkier.
14:41SPEAKERThe wifi access point that covers my backyard,
14:43SPEAKERI think is just wifi five, which is part of it.
14:46SPEAKERIt's also like a higher range, lower throughput radio.
14:49SPEAKERSo it's not set up for this.
14:53SPEAKER- Do you really want your neighbors peering over the fence
14:55SPEAKERto see you cavorting around with a VR headset
14:57SPEAKERon in your backyard?
14:58SPEAKER- Okay, so I did it.
14:59SPEAKERI took it out in the backyard and I tried some stuff.
15:02SPEAKERI had a little bit of trouble tracking in the dark dark
15:05SPEAKERat late night when I tried to do it to hide my shame.
15:07SPEAKERIn the daytime, it worked great.
15:09SPEAKERI set up in like a 20 foot by 20 foot play area
15:12SPEAKERin my backyard and was just walking around
15:14SPEAKERand playing Job Sim.
15:16SPEAKERAnd I felt a little bit of shame, but it was fine.
15:21SPEAKERIt solves the problem I have in Bay Area houses
15:24SPEAKERwhere I don't really have a house big enough
15:25SPEAKERto do room scale VR at all.
15:27SPEAKERAnyway, yeah, so, but the primary way I've used it
15:32SPEAKERis to play either 2D or VR games stream.
15:35SPEAKERLike I said, I wish that the radio that they shipped with
15:37SPEAKERthat worked with 2D games, I think that's,
15:39SPEAKERthey said that they're working on that.
15:42SPEAKERActually, they said that it should work, but I'm not,
15:44SPEAKERI wasn't seeing that in my testing, so.
15:47SPEAKER- What's the price on this, 12?
15:49SPEAKER- Well, that's a good question.
15:52SPEAKERNo, no, so there's two models.
15:54SPEAKERThere's a 256 gig model and a one terabyte model.
15:57SPEAKERThe 256 gig model is $1,059.
16:01SPEAKERThe one terabyte model is $1,299,
16:04SPEAKERwhich basically puts the 256 gig model in the same range
16:08SPEAKERthat the index was when it launched with the lighthouses
16:11SPEAKERand all the hand controllers and all that stuff.
16:13SPEAKER- The reason I ask about the price,
16:15SPEAKERand I'm sure there is no way they're ever gonna do this,
16:17SPEAKERbut when you talk about the local compute
16:19SPEAKERbeing almost an afterthought in this,
16:20SPEAKERlike all you're using it for really is streaming
16:23SPEAKERfrom a big PC, like is there potential
16:24SPEAKERfor a version of this thing with less?
16:26SPEAKERI mean, maybe that's not enough of an addition
16:29SPEAKERto the overall cost that removing some of that local compute
16:32SPEAKERwould make that big a difference in price,
16:34SPEAKERbut like a version of this without the ability
16:35SPEAKERto play local games and only stream?
16:38SPEAKER- I think given that most of the software being made
16:42SPEAKERfor this type of device is being made for ARM
16:46SPEAKERon the MetaQuest, is probably why it has
16:50SPEAKERthe local compute.
16:51SPEAKER- Yeah, like I said, they're never actually gonna do that.
16:53SPEAKER- Yeah.
16:56SPEAKERLook, this is a conversation we should have
16:59SPEAKERwith Norm next week, 'cause I kind of don't understand
17:03SPEAKERwhat the market is for this, right?
17:06SPEAKERLike the VR software ecosystem is such that like,
17:09SPEAKERMeta is backed away from it, Valve isn't.
17:12SPEAKERI don't think that Meta or Valve are making software
17:14SPEAKERor paying people to make software for this, right?
17:16SPEAKERSo I don't know, like are there gonna be a ton of VR games
17:20SPEAKERcoming out everywhere?
17:21SPEAKERI know that like, I know that there's a handful of studios
17:23SPEAKERthat are consistently making kind of awesome VR games.
17:26SPEAKERI tried a bunch of the newer ones since I got this
17:29SPEAKERand like, but I don't know that that's worth
17:33SPEAKERbuying a $1,200 headset.
17:35SPEAKERNow, I will say I played a lot of ZCOM
17:39SPEAKERof the Star Wars Tactics game on this zero company.
17:45SPEAKERAnd it's like, it's a fantastic experience.
17:48SPEAKERLike I'm sitting in the bed, in the living room
17:49SPEAKERor laying in bed, I have a 80 inch screen in front of me
17:52SPEAKERand I'm, you know, the controllers,
17:54SPEAKERwe haven't talked about the controllers at all,
17:55SPEAKERbut the controllers are basically a split default
17:59SPEAKERXbox 360 style controller with D-pad, two sticks,
18:02SPEAKERclicky sticks, four face buttons,
18:05SPEAKERstart select, bumpers and triggers.
18:07SPEAKERAnd they're like, they're good.
18:09SPEAKERIt's the same sticks and stuff as in the Steam controller.
18:12SPEAKERThere's a, like, so you can totally just use it
18:15SPEAKERto play normal 2D games on a big giant virtual TV
18:19SPEAKERwherever you happen to be.
18:21SPEAKERAnd when you're streaming that from another PC,
18:22SPEAKERthe battery life is kind of amazing.
18:23SPEAKERIt's like four hours.
18:24SPEAKERIt's longer than I probably want to wear the headset
18:26SPEAKERat a time, but at the same time,
18:30SPEAKERthe VR side of that is really compelling.
18:34SPEAKERLike I played a bunch of Alex again,
18:35SPEAKERwhich I haven't looked at since 2020
18:36SPEAKERand that game still rips like that.
18:38SPEAKERIt's really good.
18:39SPEAKERI wish there was more stuff like that on the way
18:42SPEAKERthat I could be like, yeah,
18:43SPEAKERthis is a whole thriving ecosystem of VR software.
18:46SPEAKERAnd I just don't know that that exists,
18:47SPEAKERwhich is like the fundamental problem
18:50SPEAKERwith all of this stuff.
18:51SPEAKER- I think that that'll be the thing
18:52SPEAKERI'm most looking forward to talking to Norm about next week
18:54SPEAKERis just, or this week, I guess end of this week,
18:57SPEAKERis just like every other product in this new latest wave
19:01SPEAKERof kind of valve hardware initiatives
19:03SPEAKERmakes pretty obvious sense in terms of like
19:05SPEAKERwhy people would want it.
19:06SPEAKERBut yeah, this one feels a bit like the odd one out.
19:09SPEAKER- I mean, on the other hand, if I had a thousand dollars
19:13SPEAKERand I wanted a VR headset, would I buy this
19:15SPEAKERor would I buy an index?
19:16SPEAKER- I would absolutely buy this. - Oh yeah, 100%.
19:18SPEAKERYeah, it's more, I guess it's more just how many people
19:20SPEAKERare actually looking for headsets right now.
19:23SPEAKER- Yeah, and I don't know, like I know I see ads for those,
19:26SPEAKERlike, hey, here's a pair of glasses
19:28SPEAKERyou can wear on the airplane
19:30SPEAKERand have a big giant screen in front of you
19:32SPEAKERwhile you work on your flight to Taiwan.
19:35SPEAKERAnd like, they must sell a lot of those
19:37SPEAKER'cause I see a bunch of ads for them.
19:39SPEAKERI've never seen anybody use one of those
19:41SPEAKERon an airplane before.
19:42SPEAKERI have a set here that somebody sent me at some point
19:44SPEAKERand like, they just don't work with my glasses
19:47SPEAKERso I don't ever wear 'em.
19:48SPEAKERLike, these work fine with glasses.
19:51SPEAKERZeni's gonna sell prescription inserts for these
19:53SPEAKERso you can get $60 inserts for your headset.
19:59SPEAKERThis you just put on the headset, take your glasses off.
20:02SPEAKERI'm really, like, I'm really conflicted about it
20:05SPEAKER'cause it's a really nice headset.
20:07SPEAKERIt's like, if I was playing sim games,
20:10SPEAKERI would be all about this and set up with my sled
20:13SPEAKERand run my VR sim games all the time.
20:16SPEAKERI just don't know what the ecosystem's like
20:19SPEAKERand how many of those games are gonna keep supporting
20:22SPEAKERVR headsets going forward.
20:23SPEAKERI mean, Forza Horizon, which had VR support in five,
20:27SPEAKERdidn't have it in six,
20:28SPEAKERalthough people have modded it back in really easily.
20:31SPEAKERI don't know, it's weird.
20:33SPEAKERThe thing that I wasn't expecting
20:35SPEAKERwas that the thing I used most was 2D game streaming.
20:38SPEAKERLike, I played a lot of Blood Dungeon
20:40SPEAKERrunning locally on this and that stuff worked great.
20:42SPEAKER- Yeah, that's very shocking to me.
20:44SPEAKERAlthough, you know, if you're in a house
20:46SPEAKERwith screen contention, you know,
20:48SPEAKERother people want to use the big TV,
20:49SPEAKERlike, that's probably a good use case.
20:51SPEAKER- I am in a house with screen contention, it turns out.
20:54SPEAKERI do like the choice of splitting the,
20:58SPEAKERlike, making the pass-through stuff available
21:02SPEAKERso that you can have the real color, like, mapped accurately
21:05SPEAKERso, like, you can look over and grab your drink
21:07SPEAKERand grab your drink and not knock stuff over and all that.
21:10SPEAKERLike, that Arcturus Vision camera is really nice.
21:14SPEAKERI don't know that I use VR enough to justify that purchase,
21:18SPEAKERbut if you are wearing the headset a lot,
21:19SPEAKERit makes a ton of sense.
21:20SPEAKERIt also can do, like, spatial camera tracking
21:23SPEAKERand capture and stuff like that,
21:24SPEAKERwhich we'll talk about with Norm, I bet.
21:25SPEAKERThe other thing that they sell
21:27SPEAKERis an ergonomic accessories kit,
21:28SPEAKERwhich we should talk about because by default,
21:30SPEAKERthe controllers you just hold,
21:32SPEAKERthey don't have the index-style grip,
21:34SPEAKERlike, grip holders that you put on.
21:37SPEAKERYou have to buy, I think it's 60 bucks.
21:39SPEAKERIt includes the head strap, the top head strap,
21:43SPEAKERthe hand straps, and a bigger nosehole blocker
21:45SPEAKERso that you can do, like, the Alex-style index controller,
21:49SPEAKERknuckles, grip, picking up and using your fingers
21:52SPEAKERto grab things versus using the grippy button
21:54SPEAKERon the trigger on the controller.
21:56SPEAKER- Seems kind of weird to split that stuff out,
21:58SPEAKERbut I guess everything's expensive now.
22:01SPEAKER- I think probably they had
22:03SPEAKERsome pretty serious price pressures
22:05SPEAKERand were trying to hit a specific target
22:06SPEAKERand made some difficult choices to get there.
22:08SPEAKER- Makes sense.
22:11SPEAKER- But yeah, that's it, that's the frame.
22:12SPEAKER- Okay, all right, it's out.
22:14SPEAKER- It's out.
22:15SPEAKERYou can probably order it now, I don't know.
22:17SPEAKER- It's the last one.
22:18SPEAKERI guess that's all their hardware now.
22:20SPEAKER- Yeah, this is the end of the VR ecosystem
22:22SPEAKERuntil probably next generation.
22:23SPEAKERAlthough, like, the thing we'll talk about,
22:26SPEAKERthis is Norm, I'm sure, but I feel like,
22:29SPEAKERso on last week's episode, we talked about general magic
22:32SPEAKERand not having a path from point A to point B
22:35SPEAKERfrom the technology that existed at the time
22:37SPEAKERto getting to the iPhone and how Apple won
22:39SPEAKERbecause they figured that stuff out.
22:41SPEAKERI feel like, hey, we're gonna release
22:44SPEAKERa low-volume ARM headset, VR headset,
22:48SPEAKERto prove out and help us find all the edges
22:52SPEAKERfor the ARM to x86 emulation stuff is a real,
22:57SPEAKERlike, that's a real Apple iPod to iPhone kind of way
23:02SPEAKERto make the next version of the Steam Deck an ARM device.
23:05SPEAKER- Yep.
23:05SPEAKER- Which makes a lot of sense to me.
23:07SPEAKERI look at, like, what AYN is doing with the Thor
23:09SPEAKERand those kinds of handhelds,
23:11SPEAKERand they're already starting to reap the benefit
23:13SPEAKERof the FEX translation layer or emulation layer.
23:17SPEAKERAnd as a result, I feel like this leaves me really confident
23:22SPEAKERthat an ARM future for the Steam Deck is possible.
23:25SPEAKER- Interesting, okay.
23:26SPEAKERThat'll be something to dig into on this week's episode.
23:29SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, so anyway, Steam Frame, it's out now, I guess.
23:33SPEAKERI don't know, they didn't tell us.
23:34SPEAKERI assume that the embargo lifts when you can pre-order it,
23:37SPEAKERbut I don't know for sure they didn't tell us, so.
23:39SPEAKER- All right.
23:39SPEAKER- Maybe it's out now, I guess.
23:42SPEAKERIf you have questions,
23:43SPEAKERplease send them in to techpot at content.town.
23:45SPEAKERWe're gonna, like I said, we're gonna do a,
23:47SPEAKERI wanna do a whole roundup episode,
23:49SPEAKER'cause you weren't here
23:50SPEAKERwhen we talked about the Steam machine.
23:52SPEAKER- No, I missed all of that.
23:54SPEAKER- Yeah, and I wanna talk with Norm and you
23:58SPEAKERand kind of round up this whole ecosystem that they built
24:01SPEAKERand talk about the whole thing next week's episode.
24:03SPEAKER- This is the last of the products they announced
24:06SPEAKERfor the time being.
24:07SPEAKER- Yeah, and that's it.
24:09SPEAKERThanks for listening to our little short special episode,
24:11SPEAKERand we'll be back on Sunday with more.
24:14SPEAKERBye, everybody.
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25:06SPEAKER(upbeat music)