00:00SPEAKER- Okay, I've put my hands on every one of the new iPhones.
00:02SPEAKERAsk me anything.
00:03SPEAKER- Hey, me too.
00:04SPEAKER- Oh, okay.
00:05SPEAKERI guess you don't need to ask me anything then.
00:07SPEAKER- I mean, so I went to that AT&T store
00:09SPEAKERwhile I was waiting to pick up food last night.
00:11SPEAKER- Okay.
00:12SPEAKER- And I kind of put my hand,
00:14SPEAKERso they had the anti-theft things on them
00:17SPEAKERto the point that like you couldn't get good hand feel.
00:20SPEAKER- Oh, okay.
00:21SPEAKERWell, so we went to the Chestnut Street Apple Store
00:23SPEAKERyesterday.
00:24SPEAKER- Oh, bougie.
00:25SPEAKER- In the midst of-
00:26SPEAKER- Yes, dude.
00:27SPEAKERDon't get me started on that Apple Store.
00:28SPEAKERHave I talked about it before?
00:29SPEAKER- I just don't like Chestnut Street at all.
00:32SPEAKERLook-
00:33SPEAKER- I have an extreme love-hate relationship
00:34SPEAKERwith the marina in San Francisco.
00:36SPEAKERLike there is some really nice fun stuff in the marina.
00:39SPEAKER- I don't like Chestnut Street.
00:41SPEAKER- The vibes of that area are not to my taste, let's say.
00:46SPEAKER- Some of my good friends who I went to college with
00:48SPEAKERused to like going to a bar out there
00:50SPEAKERto watch Tennessee football games.
00:52SPEAKERAnd like sometimes it was great.
00:56SPEAKERSometimes it just absolutely sucked.
00:57SPEAKERSo I'm glad we don't go there anymore.
00:59SPEAKERI had the worst, probably the worst retail experience
01:03SPEAKERof my life at that Apple Store on Chestnut Street.
01:05SPEAKER- For folks who don't know,
01:07SPEAKERI don't know what's the marina is kind of like,
01:10SPEAKERit's like posh, but for 26 year olds?
01:13SPEAKER- Yes, it is the bougiest, poshest part of San Francisco.
01:16SPEAKERIt's like, it's like high-end shopping district though.
01:20SPEAKER- But like the high-end shopping districts
01:22SPEAKERlike Pacific Heights or something like that,
01:24SPEAKERlike that's where the actual rich people is.
01:26SPEAKERThis is where the people who think they're really rich
01:28SPEAKERbut aren't probably live.
01:29SPEAKER- Like a lot of finance bros in the marina, let's say.
01:32SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it, anyway.
01:34SPEAKER- Anyway, I had way better time
01:35SPEAKERat that Apple Store yesterday to their credit,
01:37SPEAKERbut I don't think I've ever been to an Apple Store
01:39SPEAKERon iPhone launch day.
01:40SPEAKER- That's the one that I used to go to to pick up stuff
01:43SPEAKERwhen we would, before they closed the loophole.
01:46SPEAKER'Cause like in the early tested days,
01:48SPEAKERyou could call your Apple business guy
01:49SPEAKERand he would hold shit for you.
01:50SPEAKERAnd then you just go skip the line and go straight in,
01:52SPEAKERget your stuff from them.
01:54SPEAKERAnd then they were like, oh, we gotta stop this
01:56SPEAKER'cause people are abusing this
01:58SPEAKERto not have to wait in the line.
02:01SPEAKERBut I used to shout out to Mike
02:03SPEAKERat the Chestnut Street Apple Store 15 years ago
02:05SPEAKER'cause he ripped, he got us like four iPads on launch day.
02:09SPEAKER- Thanks Mike. - Anyway.
02:10SPEAKER- Line was still way down the block at three o'clock
02:12SPEAKERwhen we got there in the afternoon,
02:14SPEAKERbut we just went right in to browse.
02:15SPEAKERSo I also saw like the new watches
02:17SPEAKERand the new AirPods and stuff,
02:19SPEAKERbut their anti-theft stuff is minimal enough
02:22SPEAKERthat I could just hold the phones.
02:23SPEAKERTiny little disc on the back,
02:25SPEAKERbut otherwise I kind of got good hand feel on each one.
02:27SPEAKER- Okay, where you at?
02:29SPEAKER- That air might be too thin, I don't know.
02:31SPEAKER- I picked it up, I took a picture of my kid.
02:33SPEAKERI airdropped the picture of my kid to myself
02:34SPEAKERand then I deleted the picture of my kid from the phone.
02:37SPEAKERAnd I was like, this is a pretty good size for me.
02:40SPEAKER- Yeah, kind of sure.
02:41SPEAKERI mean, it's a nice sturdy, large phone screen,
02:45SPEAKERreal estate size, it's quite large.
02:47SPEAKER- Yeah, I didn't buy any phones this year.
02:49SPEAKERI've held off to date, so.
02:51SPEAKEREven the 16E was a substantial upgrade
02:55SPEAKERover what I have, let's say.
02:56SPEAKER- Size-wise?
02:57SPEAKER- Size-wise, everything about it.
02:59SPEAKERI can't believe how light iPhones are now.
03:01SPEAKERLike I've still got, you know, I've got an SE3,
03:03SPEAKERwhich is the sixth design.
03:05SPEAKER- Yeah.
03:06SPEAKER- And this thing is pretty small
03:07SPEAKERand still heavier than any of those new phones
03:09SPEAKERthat have way bigger screens than this.
03:11SPEAKER- Well, so it's weird because for a while
03:13SPEAKERthey got really beefy
03:14SPEAKERwhen they were doing stainless steel frames
03:17SPEAKERand got real heavy, like the 10, from the 10 to the 15,
03:20SPEAKERI guess, or 15 is when they switched to titanium.
03:24SPEAKERAnd now the titanium one feels pretty heavy.
03:29SPEAKERAnd I don't know, like I, it's weird.
03:32SPEAKERThe fun thing was I went in with my daughter
03:34SPEAKERwho is now 12 and was, she was like,
03:38SPEAKER"Oh, I want to look at iPads, Dad."
03:39SPEAKERAnd I was like, "Okay, you can look at iPads."
03:40SPEAKERWe're absolutely not buying an iPad at the AT&T store
03:43SPEAKER'cause it's the worst possible place to do that.
03:44SPEAKERAnd she's like, "Whatever, okay."
03:46SPEAKERShe's like, "Wait, is this thing really $1,200?"
03:48SPEAKERAnd I was like, "Yes, this is really $1,200."
03:50SPEAKERShe was like, "I thought that they were like 400 bucks."
03:52SPEAKERAnd I was like, "Well, I have bad news.
03:54SPEAKERThey used to be $1,000 and now they're 1,200
03:57SPEAKERbecause of, well, because of elections
04:00SPEAKERand people made bad choices."
04:02SPEAKER- And one is gaining perspective on the value of money.
04:04SPEAKER- Yes, we're learning a lot.
04:06SPEAKERBut yeah, so I took a couple of pictures of the air
04:09SPEAKER'cause the thing I'm curious about is the zoom
04:10SPEAKERand what that dual, what those dual lenses are like.
04:13SPEAKER'Cause my phone, I think has one dual lens maybe,
04:16SPEAKERbut I can't even remember 'cause I'm on a 15 pro.
04:18SPEAKERI think they introduced that the next year.
04:22SPEAKERI am curious, I looked at some reviews and I was like,
04:26SPEAKER"I'm gonna wait until I can go to the Apple store
04:28SPEAKERand spend some quality time with this thing
04:29SPEAKERand then make a decision."
04:31SPEAKER- They're out there.
04:32SPEAKER- But the place I'm at is my 15 pro,
04:37SPEAKERthe trade-in on it is going to basically evaporate
04:39SPEAKERover the next year 'cause it'll be 250 bucks next year.
04:42SPEAKER- Right, 11, man, that's still pretty substantial to me.
04:46SPEAKERI think my SE, they dropped the trade-in value on the SE
04:49SPEAKERlike profoundly in the last few months.
04:52SPEAKERI think I would maybe get a hundred bucks for mine now
04:54SPEAKERto the point that I would actually probably rather keep it
04:57SPEAKERas a backup phone just in case at that point.
05:01SPEAKER- I think mine's 550 now if I do through them
05:03SPEAKERand the carriers will give me a grand.
05:06SPEAKER- Oh my God.
05:07SPEAKER- The carriers want a three-year contract
05:09SPEAKERon a phone trade-in, which I'm not sure I do.
05:11SPEAKER- Anyway, phones, I wanna talk about the real technology,
05:15SPEAKERthe real hot business.
05:16SPEAKER- What's that?
05:17SPEAKER- Well, we went to the last flea market
05:19SPEAKERof the year last weekend.
05:20SPEAKER- That's true, we did.
05:21SPEAKER- Yeah, we trucked down to Saratoga, California.
05:24SPEAKERI bought another CRT.
05:26SPEAKERI think I opened the season and closed the season
05:29SPEAKERby buying CRTs this year.
05:31SPEAKER- That'll happen at the flea market.
05:32SPEAKER- I'm not allowed to buy any more CRTs.
05:35SPEAKER- That was the first message that came back
05:36SPEAKERin the group chat I think after everybody got
05:38SPEAKERto their respective homes from the flea market
05:40SPEAKERwas I have been informed this is the last CRT.
05:42SPEAKER- Like super duper, I am not buying any more CRTs
05:45SPEAKERno matter what a good deal they are.
05:46SPEAKERBut this one, this is a 1993 model, 20-inch Trinitron.
05:52SPEAKERIt has S-video.
05:54SPEAKERIt's real good, Brad.
05:55SPEAKER- I'm sighing here because when we first saw it,
05:57SPEAKERI immediately thought, man, I should buy that CRT.
05:59SPEAKERAnd then I kind of like held off
06:02SPEAKERand then you expressed interest.
06:04SPEAKEROr I thought about it the more I wish I had bought it.
06:06SPEAKER- Well, so what's funny is I had the same conversation
06:09SPEAKERwith Adam, who was there with his wife.
06:12SPEAKERAdam from PC World, friend of the show.
06:14SPEAKERAnd he was like, as soon as they got in the car
06:17SPEAKERas they were leaving, his wife was like,
06:19SPEAKERunder no circumstances are you allowed to buy that CRT
06:22SPEAKERfrom like, if this is a backdoor effort
06:23SPEAKERto get another CRT into our house,
06:25SPEAKERthat's a hard no from me.
06:27SPEAKERAnd I was like, but okay, so I bought that little RCA
06:30SPEAKERthat the like 10-inch, 13-inch, 12-inch, whatever it is one,
06:33SPEAKERthe baby one, the start of the year.
06:35SPEAKERAnd it turns out I love it for nostalgia reasons,
06:39SPEAKERbut it is not a good CRT.
06:41SPEAKER- I mean, being limited to RFN only is constricting,
06:45SPEAKERlet's say.
06:45SPEAKER- And it has the good analog knobs that make the great sound
06:48SPEAKERand kachunk and all that when you turn them.
06:51SPEAKERBut one of the knobs, the main one that you use
06:54SPEAKERto change the RF channels that you use to dial in the thing,
06:58SPEAKERit's a little hinky.
07:01SPEAKER- Now that just sounds like a knob replacement project
07:03SPEAKERin the works.
07:04SPEAKER- Well, so I looked at that and getting the right switch
07:06SPEAKER'cause it's a two-stage, it's got like an inner dial
07:08SPEAKERthat turns to dial it in, and then it's got the 13-step
07:13SPEAKERouter knob. - Yes.
07:14SPEAKERVery familiar with those.
07:15SPEAKER- Yeah, you have to find a donor TV
07:17SPEAKERthat's the right TV model to replace it.
07:20SPEAKER- That is hardly an off-the-shelf knob.
07:22SPEAKER- Yeah, the fix if you don't have a donor TV
07:25SPEAKERis take the switch all the way apart,
07:28SPEAKERclean all the contacts with contact cleaner,
07:31SPEAKERand then reassemble it.
07:32SPEAKERAnd I'm gonna go and tell you,
07:34SPEAKERI don't think I care that much.
07:35SPEAKER- Yeah, well, hey, what if you just bought a newer TV instead?
07:38SPEAKER- You know, it turns out it has buttons on the front,
07:40SPEAKERit has two S-video inputs, and you can RGB mod it
07:42SPEAKERif you want, but I think I'm not gonna bother.
07:44SPEAKER- It's 20 inches, such a great size,
07:47SPEAKER'cause it's still like, and it's not quite portable,
07:50SPEAKERbut it's like compact enough, and it's got S-video,
07:52SPEAKERand man, I should have bought that TV.
07:53SPEAKER- It's human manageable.
07:55SPEAKERSo I, my wife who I love dearly pointed out
07:59SPEAKERthat I have a 20-inch Sharp in the storage unit
08:03SPEAKERaging for the last 20 years that I've put probably $20,000
08:07SPEAKERworth of storage money into at this point.
08:10SPEAKERSo, you know, if you're looking, let me know.
08:13SPEAKER- For the Sony or the Sharp?
08:14SPEAKER- For the Sharp, I'm not selling the Sony, Sony's nice.
08:16SPEAKER- Well, hey, it's $20,000 TV, how can I say no?
08:19SPEAKER- Yeah, exactly, it's a bargain.
08:21SPEAKER(upbeat music)
08:37SPEAKER(upbeat music continues)
08:49SPEAKER- Welcome to Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod.
08:51SPEAKERI'm Will.
08:52SPEAKER- I'm Brad, hello.
08:53SPEAKER- We also buried the important thing,
08:54SPEAKERwhich is that you made your first trip to Micro Center
08:56SPEAKERafter that trip to the market.
08:57SPEAKER- Yeah, that's right, we went to,
08:58SPEAKERyes, that's, Micro Center's pretty cool.
09:00SPEAKER- Micro Center's nice, huh?
09:01SPEAKER- Micro Center's not bad.
09:03SPEAKERLike the day after, I realized like two or three
09:05SPEAKERlittle things that I could have picked up there
09:07SPEAKERthat would have been nice to have.
09:08SPEAKER- That is, that is the problem with going to Micro Center,
09:10SPEAKERyeah, but no, we went around,
09:13SPEAKERwe just kind of walked around the store.
09:14SPEAKERI don't think anybody, maybe one person bought some stuff,
09:16SPEAKERbut I think we mostly were just touristing
09:19SPEAKERand appreciating the filament wall
09:21SPEAKERand looking at 3D printers and TVs and monitors
09:24SPEAKERand all that stuff.
09:25SPEAKER- I became acquainted with ASUS's
09:27SPEAKERbusiness line of motherboards.
09:29SPEAKER- Oh yeah.
09:29SPEAKER- Which I think I might've seen those before.
09:31SPEAKERLike ASUS has all kinds of stuff.
09:32SPEAKERThey've got the ProArt ones,
09:34SPEAKERwhich are like kind of creator oriented.
09:37SPEAKERThey've got the, they've got workstation motherboards
09:39SPEAKERthat are like serious.
09:40SPEAKERThat's what I've got in my NAS.
09:41SPEAKERBut they have these quote unquote business motherboards
09:43SPEAKERthat have a green PCBs.
09:46SPEAKER- Really, I missed that.
09:48SPEAKER- Straight up, straight up.
09:49SPEAKERSo just to just Google like ASUS business motherboards,
09:51SPEAKERyou'll see exactly what I'm talking about.
09:52SPEAKERBut it just looks like a motherboard from the mid nineties.
09:55SPEAKERLike it's just a classic green PCB.
09:57SPEAKER- The creator ones have Thunderbolt
09:59SPEAKERand more USB 3.3 and 3.2 ports usually.
10:03SPEAKERThey don't have USB 2.0 ports on the back generally.
10:05SPEAKER- And usually like an extra ethernet port,
10:08SPEAKERlike an extra 10 gig port or something.
10:10SPEAKERI did the business motherboards.
10:12SPEAKERThe Intel ones I was looking at used a different chip set,
10:14SPEAKERwhich I could not puzzle out the nature of.
10:17SPEAKERIt was like a, it was instead of a Z,
10:19SPEAKERit was a Q kind of mind it.
10:21SPEAKER- Probably just means like less memory support
10:23SPEAKERand stuff like that.
10:24SPEAKERYou probably can't do a overclock memory.
10:26SPEAKER- Yeah, Q870 is the chip set on this business motherboard
10:31SPEAKERas opposed to like a-
10:31SPEAKER- It's business time, Brad.
10:32SPEAKER- Z890 I think is the high end Air Lake one.
10:36SPEAKERAnyway, parts, just fun to walk into a giant retail store
10:40SPEAKERfull of computer parts.
10:42SPEAKER- I will tell you my favorite thing about that
10:43SPEAKERis how aggressively they help people.
10:46SPEAKERAnd like you actually get knowledgeable people helping you.
10:49SPEAKERLike you go up to the BYO computer area,
10:52SPEAKERbuild your own, not bring your own.
10:54SPEAKERAnd they like will walk through the cabinets with you,
10:58SPEAKERpulling out CPUs and RAM and SSDs and motherboards
11:01SPEAKERand all that stuff.
11:02SPEAKERAnd make sure that you get stuff that works with everything
11:04SPEAKERand like make good decisions.
11:06SPEAKERAnd they're like, the last time I was there,
11:08SPEAKERI eavesdropped on them to make sure
11:10SPEAKERthat they were giving good advice.
11:11SPEAKERAnd like they were taking what people said,
11:13SPEAKER"Hey, I went Intel."
11:14SPEAKERThey'd give them the alternative and be like,
11:16SPEAKER"Hey, this is the little bit more performant blah, blah, blah."
11:18SPEAKERAnd then they didn't need to help them make good decisions,
11:20SPEAKERwhich was really cool.
11:21SPEAKER- Sold out of 9,800 X3Ds.
11:24SPEAKER- Yeah.
11:24SPEAKER- I think every other processor skew on both sides
11:27SPEAKERwas there except that one.
11:29SPEAKER- AMD said last week that they're making those
11:30SPEAKERas fast as they can.
11:31SPEAKERAnd then they just nonstop sell out.
11:33SPEAKER- Yeah, I believe it.
11:34SPEAKER- Video, there were video cards.
11:35SPEAKERLike there were 9,070 XTs, there were 1590s or 5080s.
11:38SPEAKER- Yeah.
11:39SPEAKER- Like you could get more or less retail price.
11:41SPEAKER- Hmm, in some cases.
11:43SPEAKER- Well.
11:44SPEAKER- Well, I guess actually some of those,
11:45SPEAKERsome of the ones that are marked up
11:46SPEAKERare the kind of classic overclocked, you know,
11:48SPEAKERhey, here's the higher bend version
11:51SPEAKERthat we factory overclocked
11:52SPEAKERand we're gonna charge $300 more.
11:54SPEAKER- Yeah, I think the cheapest 1590 I saw was 2,400 bucks,
11:58SPEAKERwhich was when I looked it up,
12:00SPEAKERthey're stated MSRP for that particular card.
12:02SPEAKER- Okay, okay.
12:03SPEAKER- So bigger, cooler, whatever, I don't know.
12:05SPEAKERAnyway, what are we gonna talk about this week, Brad?
12:08SPEAKERWhat do we got?
12:09SPEAKER- PCs, actually.
12:11SPEAKER- The personal computer.
12:13SPEAKER- I've been somewhat off work this week
12:15SPEAKERand have been doing a lot of PC tinkering myself.
12:17SPEAKERAnd I think you've got some stuff also.
12:19SPEAKER- Yeah, my Linux project is ongoing.
12:21SPEAKERI finally put Kashi back on the desktop PC
12:24SPEAKERand I've settled into my gnome on the laptop
12:28SPEAKERand KDE on the desktop.
12:29SPEAKER- We talked about it in the "Duelbook Diaries" this week,
12:31SPEAKERyou know, sideshow plug.
12:33SPEAKER- I think I'm two episodes behind now on that.
12:36SPEAKERI think, I think.
12:37SPEAKERLast time I listened to Adam
12:38SPEAKERwas about to go to Germany, I think.
12:40SPEAKER- So we just posted the follow-up episode to that yesterday.
12:44SPEAKER- Okay.
12:45SPEAKER- So I think you're probably four is the current one,
12:47SPEAKERI think, and five is next week, so.
12:49SPEAKER- Are you gnoming for the gestures on laptop?
12:52SPEAKERIs that the distinction there?
12:53SPEAKER'Cause in my limited experience,
12:55SPEAKERgnome is pretty good with touchpad gestures.
12:58SPEAKER- Yeah, so I like the touchpad gestures a lot
13:00SPEAKERand also just the default shipping gnome on Kashi
13:05SPEAKERis the full screen one where you gesture up
13:07SPEAKERinto the kind of launcher/task switcher.
13:11SPEAKER- That's how Fedora, that might just be a gnome setting.
13:13SPEAKERI don't even know if that's a distro specific thing
13:15SPEAKERbut at a minimum, I can say Fedora also ships that way.
13:18SPEAKER- Yeah, it's like you get maximal screen space
13:20SPEAKERon the laptop.
13:22SPEAKERThe only thing I don't like about it
13:22SPEAKERis it does a bad job with scaling out of the box
13:25SPEAKERbut there's apparently extensions or text edits
13:27SPEAKERyou can do to get like precise scaling
13:29SPEAKERthat you want for your, 'cause the monitor,
13:32SPEAKERthe laptop screen that I use is like 2,800 by 1,600
13:35SPEAKERor 1,400 or something like that, it's a weird resolution.
13:38SPEAKERAnyway.
13:39SPEAKER- Year of the Linux desktop continues.
13:41SPEAKER- I mean, I'm gonna go ahead and tell you
13:43SPEAKERit's way easier than I expected it to be.
13:46SPEAKERI mean, I think years and years of doing
13:51SPEAKERlike Linux server stuff has made it easier
13:54SPEAKERbut it's been fun watching Adam figure this stuff out too
13:56SPEAKERand he's kind of done distro hopping at this point.
13:57SPEAKERSo anyway, but you-
14:00SPEAKER- Yes, I-
14:01SPEAKER- Yes.
14:03SPEAKER- I have a new enemy.
14:04SPEAKER- Yeah.
14:05SPEAKER- Air.
14:07SPEAKER- Well, I mean, I told you to put a water cooler
14:08SPEAKERin that machine.
14:09SPEAKER- Air is my new enemy.
14:12SPEAKERBut one of the things, okay, I've got a couple
14:15SPEAKERof little projects I've been tinkering with
14:17SPEAKERthe last week or two that we're here to talk about.
14:19SPEAKEROne of them pertains to fan acoustics and noise
14:23SPEAKERand also the ongoing, I don't know, drama might be
14:26SPEAKERa strong word, but some of the ongoing questions
14:30SPEAKERaround a lot of the windows-based hardware
14:32SPEAKERmonitoring utilities.
14:35SPEAKER- The win-ring zero problem.
14:36SPEAKER- Yes, the win-ring zero problem that has affected
14:39SPEAKERfan control and we have a list here of, let's see,
14:43SPEAKERRazer Synapse, Capframe X, let's see,
14:46SPEAKEROpen Harbinger-
14:47SPEAKER- MSI Afterburner.
14:48SPEAKER- Open RGB.
14:49SPEAKER- Yeah.
14:51SPEAKER- A whole bunch of other programs.
14:51SPEAKER- HW Info, SteelSeries Engine, EVGA, Precision X1,
14:56SPEAKERalthough I think the newer versions don't have
14:58SPEAKERthe problem on that.
14:59SPEAKERIt's wild.
15:01SPEAKER'Cause the thing that happened, for folks who don't know,
15:04SPEAKERis that in a recent Windows update, Microsoft started
15:08SPEAKERlabeling anything that uses, so let me take a step back.
15:11SPEAKERWin-ring zero is a low-level driver.
15:14SPEAKERIt's called win-ring zero 'cause it's the lowest level,
15:16SPEAKERkernel-level driver that you install to get low-level access
15:21SPEAKERto things like voltages and fan speeds from your,
15:25SPEAKERfrom a lot of motherboards and BIOSes.
15:26SPEAKERIt's used by a library called Libre Hardware, which is-
15:31SPEAKER- Yeah, Libre Hardware Monitor, I believe.
15:33SPEAKER- Well, the monitor is a thing that sits on top of that.
15:36SPEAKERLike, the DLL is used by a bazillion projects,
15:38SPEAKERopen source and closed source, to give access to that timing
15:41SPEAKERand they all use that same win-ring zero driver,
15:44SPEAKERwhich Microsoft has said is insecure and is labeling it
15:48SPEAKERas a virus and recommending that people quarantine it now.
15:51SPEAKER- It is insecure, like even the developer of the driver
15:53SPEAKERwho wrote it like 15 years ago has since come out
15:56SPEAKERand basically said, "I wish I had not written that,"
15:57SPEAKERand it is, and this vulnerability is real and quite bad.
16:01SPEAKER- Yeah, and I think we talked about this.
16:02SPEAKERI can't remember, this is the problem with doing two podcasts
16:05SPEAKERthat are kind of adjacent to each other.
16:06SPEAKERWe definitely talked about this on The Full Nerd.
16:08SPEAKERI think we talked about it here a few weeks ago.
16:10SPEAKER- I don't think we have, 'cause this was new to me.
16:12SPEAKER- Okay.
16:13SPEAKER- 'Cause when that pop-up hit, I was,
16:14SPEAKER'cause I got hit by the Defender,
16:16SPEAKER"Hey, you've got a Trojan on your system."
16:18SPEAKERTwo weeks ago now, it's been a little bit.
16:21SPEAKERI immediately flipped out and was like,
16:22SPEAKER"What is going on here?"
16:23SPEAKER'Cause I was installing fan control from Scoop,
16:26SPEAKERwhich is one of the Windows package managers of note.
16:29SPEAKERAnd there is some amount of relying on the goodwill
16:33SPEAKERand vigilance of the community with Scoop
16:36SPEAKERor any community-driven package manager
16:38SPEAKERthat malware doesn't sneak its way into their versions
16:40SPEAKERof what they're posting.
16:41SPEAKERSo my first thought was, "Oh God, is the Scoop version,
16:44SPEAKERlike the binary that Scoop is distributing a fan control,
16:46SPEAKERinfected, what's going on here?"
16:47SPEAKERBut then it did not take long
16:50SPEAKERjust looking at our Discord or GitHub issues or whatever,
16:52SPEAKERlike people were getting hit with this left and right,
16:54SPEAKERbecause what happened was Microsoft finally just decided
16:58SPEAKERto start enforcing the Windows Defender definition
17:00SPEAKERthat identified WinRing Zero as vulnerable.
17:05SPEAKERI think you could still just click quarantine button
17:06SPEAKERand move on with your life if you wanted, right?
17:08SPEAKERLike it's not like they were completely disallowing it,
17:10SPEAKERbut I don't think that's a good idea.
17:11SPEAKER- Well, if you hit quarantine,
17:13SPEAKERthen fan control stops working.
17:14SPEAKER- So I'm sorry, quarantine is not the right term,
17:16SPEAKERlike it's still like, you get an exception for it?
17:19SPEAKER- Yeah, make an exception for it,
17:20SPEAKERwhich is what Microsoft recommended.
17:22SPEAKER- Yeah.
17:23SPEAKER- Also, as of this morning,
17:25SPEAKERfan control released version 240,
17:27SPEAKERwhich Remo did it, which is pod.io.
17:32SPEAKER- So this was actually, the 239 was the one
17:34SPEAKERthat came out a couple of days before we recorded this,
17:36SPEAKERwas the first version to do that.
17:39SPEAKERThat, yes, I was following GitHub issues
17:42SPEAKERaround people flipping out
17:43SPEAKERover this Windows Defender notification,
17:48SPEAKERand they were already talking at that time
17:49SPEAKERabout pod.io as an alternative driver.
17:52SPEAKER- So I installed pod.io on version 237,
17:55SPEAKERand it's been working fine for me
17:56SPEAKERfor the last week and a half.
17:58SPEAKER- It seems like they'll probably get it where it needs to be.
18:00SPEAKERBasically, like here's the note with,
18:03SPEAKERin the changelog for version 239 of fan control,
18:06SPEAKERmigrated to the pod.io version of Libre hardware monitor,
18:08SPEAKERwin ring zero is no longer shipped with fan control.
18:11SPEAKERThis will prompt for the installation of the pod.io driver.
18:15SPEAKERYou may use the software without,
18:16SPEAKERbut you will not get any motherboard sensors
18:18SPEAKERor other sensor sources will still work as usual.
18:21SPEAKERThis is a whole new driver implementation.
18:23SPEAKERIt will contain bugs and require community efforts
18:26SPEAKERto iron them out.
18:27SPEAKERSo like they are making, at least in fan control's case,
18:30SPEAKERthey are making the transition away pretty promptly from,
18:34SPEAKERaway from this vulnerable driver,
18:35SPEAKERbut it sounds like there will maybe potentially be edge cases
18:38SPEAKERthat would cause issues anyway.
18:40SPEAKER- Like, I think this is a larger part of Microsoft
18:43SPEAKERgetting control of the kernel level software.
18:46SPEAKER- Yeah, which they need to do.
18:48SPEAKERI mean, like it's like, it's been a long time
18:51SPEAKERsince the Wild West era of Windows XP
18:53SPEAKERand anything goes for anything
18:54SPEAKERthat anybody wants to write for the OS.
18:57SPEAKER- Well, but at the same time, it's like the Windows Defender
19:02SPEAKERis a pretty blunt cudgel, better term.
19:06SPEAKERLike this is the way they did this
19:09SPEAKERand popping up these error messages for a bazillion people
19:12SPEAKERfor stuff, just to be clear,
19:14SPEAKERfor hardware that ships with your video card
19:16SPEAKERor with your mouse or with your, you know,
19:20SPEAKERlike the HW info is bundled with motherboards
19:23SPEAKERin a lot of cases, like ASUS will install HW info
19:26SPEAKERif you do the full install suite on a lot of motherboards.
19:30SPEAKERSo it's pretty wild that they decided to label these
19:33SPEAKERas a Trojan without any kind of like supplemental information
19:39SPEAKERaside from, hey, there's a knowledge base article here
19:42SPEAKERthat explains what's going on.
19:43SPEAKERThat's kind of impenetrable to anybody, but nerds.
19:46SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't know if Defender is architected
19:48SPEAKERin such a way that it can point you to information
19:50SPEAKERwhen it flags something, I guess it is.
19:52SPEAKERI don't remember seeing anything like that.
19:53SPEAKER- It had a read more on mine.
19:55SPEAKER- Okay, I mean, this needed to be done at some point.
19:58SPEAKERI don't know if this was the best way to go about it.
20:01SPEAKERI mean, if anything, to some extent,
20:03SPEAKERthis may have been somewhat counterproductive
20:05SPEAKERto trigger it this way, because a lot of people,
20:07SPEAKERin fact, a lot of people in the issues on GitHub
20:09SPEAKERfor fan control were recommending like,
20:12SPEAKERhey, just make an exception to move on.
20:13SPEAKERLike it's just a false positive.
20:14SPEAKERLike that was actually, that's the dangerous narrative.
20:17SPEAKERThere is, hey, it's just a false positive,
20:19SPEAKERjust allow it and move on because it's not actually like,
20:22SPEAKERwell, a lot of people look at something like this
20:24SPEAKERand they're like, oh no, this can't be an actual threat.
20:27SPEAKERI should just allow this and leave it as is.
20:31SPEAKER- So for what it's worth,
20:32SPEAKERI've been using the Pawn.io version of fan control
20:34SPEAKERfor the last week or week and a half at this point,
20:36SPEAKERand it's been fine.
20:38SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm sure. - But I have a relatively
20:39SPEAKERsimple setup.
20:41SPEAKER- Enough people use that software
20:42SPEAKERthat I'm sure it will probably get hammered into shape
20:44SPEAKERrelatively quickly.
20:45SPEAKER- Yeah.
20:46SPEAKER- But this all actually just prompted my hand
20:49SPEAKERbecause I had been meaning to move off of fan control
20:50SPEAKERfor a while anyway,
20:52SPEAKERbecause fan control doesn't exist for Linux.
20:55SPEAKERAnd so it's not like you could just export
20:57SPEAKERyour fan control config from Windows
20:59SPEAKERand apply it to the Linux version
21:00SPEAKER'cause that doesn't exist.
21:01SPEAKER- No, so I had the same problem
21:03SPEAKERand I solved it by going to the UEFI fan setup
21:06SPEAKERand just hitting the quiet preset.
21:09SPEAKER- Okay, sure.
21:11SPEAKER- Problem solved.
21:12SPEAKER- That is absolutely one way to do it.
21:14SPEAKERI mean, especially if you're on an AIO
21:19SPEAKERand whatever fan control,
21:21SPEAKERor sorry, whatever fan profile on the BIOS
21:22SPEAKERor the UEFI you're hitting is somewhat aware of.
21:25SPEAKER- Nope, they're never aware of the liquid temperature.
21:28SPEAKERYeah. - Oh, okay.
21:29SPEAKERWell, hopefully it's like tuned well enough
21:31SPEAKERto work with an AIO that you won't run into trouble,
21:33SPEAKERbut also AIOs are very efficient, right?
21:35SPEAKER- Yeah, so the problem I have
21:37SPEAKERis that I don't want what the PC sees as the CPU fans,
21:42SPEAKERwhich are the three fans on the front of the AIO
21:44SPEAKERspinning up and down with the CPU temperature, right?
21:47SPEAKERI want them to spin up and down with the liquid temperature.
21:49SPEAKERAnd it turns out it was difficult to solve that problem.
21:55SPEAKERThere are very few AIOs.
21:58SPEAKERIt's something I've been testing for PC World
22:00SPEAKERis basically we have a big wall of AIOs
22:02SPEAKERand I've been popping them open and plugging them in
22:05SPEAKERto see if any of them report the temperature to the BIOS
22:08SPEAKERin a meaningful way.
22:10SPEAKERI would love if some of them use the thermistor header
22:12SPEAKERon motherboards, 'cause almost all high-end motherboards
22:14SPEAKERhave a thermistor header, and I would totally run the wire
22:16SPEAKERto plug that in if that was an option.
22:18SPEAKERBut nobody does that.
22:19SPEAKER- That's weird.
22:20SPEAKERIt seems like that should have caught up by now.
22:22SPEAKER- Well, you would think like the,
22:25SPEAKERso some of them just don't track that number at all,
22:29SPEAKERlike especially cheaper AIOs, like low-end Cooler Master
22:33SPEAKERand Corsair AIOs just don't track the temperature.
22:36SPEAKERSome of them will report it into their Windows software
22:39SPEAKERand let you set up fan curves in like Armory Crate
22:42SPEAKERor I can't remember what the Corsair tool is called,
22:45SPEAKERH something or other.
22:47SPEAKERBut very few of them will let you do it at a BIOS level.
22:49SPEAKERSo the solution is you get the thermistor
22:52SPEAKERout of your motherboard and you get a piece of Kapton tape
22:54SPEAKERand some thermal grease and you jam it
22:57SPEAKEReither on the radiator or near on the metal
23:00SPEAKERin the AIO area, like under the plate,
23:03SPEAKERhopefully where you won't crush it when you put the CPU on,
23:06SPEAKERbut where it's coming in contact with metal
23:09SPEAKERand you put the thermal grease on to get good heat transfer
23:11SPEAKERbetween the surface and the thermistor.
23:16SPEAKERIt's not great.
23:17SPEAKER- That seems like a pain.
23:18SPEAKER- It should not be this difficult.
23:20SPEAKERThis should be an easier problem to solve.
23:21SPEAKER- Yes, well, I actually spent a hot minute looking at AIOs
23:26SPEAKERand thinking maybe I should, maybe it's time,
23:27SPEAKERmaybe I should just do this and get around the issue
23:30SPEAKERthat I have with my Noctua tower cooler.
23:35SPEAKERThen I stumbled upon the forbidden knowledge.
23:38SPEAKERSo the reason that I use fan control in Windows
23:40SPEAKERbeyond the normal reasons people use it
23:42SPEAKERis that I've had this weird issue with, I've got a DH-15.
23:47SPEAKER- Okay. - I'm sorry, DH-15, NHD-15.
23:48SPEAKERIt's the granddaddy of Noctua's.
23:51SPEAKER- Is this the biggest tall, it's like two heat towers
23:55SPEAKERwith a fan in between and another one on the outside?
23:57SPEAKER- It's the big one.
23:58SPEAKERIt's the one that Noctua kind of made their name on
24:00SPEAKERas being like, hey, this was the best one on the market.
24:03SPEAKER- This is $130 AIO air cooler?
24:06SPEAKER- It is significant.
24:08SPEAKER- Wow.
24:09SPEAKER- I have a big case, I have a lot of room.
24:10SPEAKER- Okay, fair. - To put a big cool,
24:12SPEAKERalso I have like the hottest CPU on the market.
24:15SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, you are running,
24:16SPEAKERyeah, you are running the GOAT.
24:18SPEAKER- It's a 14900K, it needs the cooling, trust me.
24:21SPEAKER- Well, yeah, I mean, technically,
24:22SPEAKERI think you're not supposed to put air coolers on 14900Ks.
24:25SPEAKER- Yes, actually, not to run it at full,
24:28SPEAKERto run it at full tilt, absolutely.
24:29SPEAKERLike I look up the specs and this thing,
24:32SPEAKERI think this thing is rated to dissipate 185 watts.
24:35SPEAKER- Yeah.
24:36SPEAKER- And that CPU goes up to like 250.
24:38SPEAKER- Yeah, but if you don't,
24:40SPEAKERthat's like if you do the overclocking stuff, anyway.
24:43SPEAKER- Well, I'm not even, I mean,
24:43SPEAKERthat's the out of the box overclocking.
24:45SPEAKER- 253, I think is the stock for that.
24:47SPEAKER- That's right, and anyway, guess who went into their UEFI
24:50SPEAKERand power limited their 14900K?
24:52SPEAKER- Wow.
24:53SPEAKER- Down 285 watts.
24:54SPEAKER- You should have just gotten a 14700K at that point.
24:55SPEAKER- Well, it's four extra cores, you know.
24:57SPEAKER- Okay, fair.
24:58SPEAKER- Anyway, the whole reason
25:01SPEAKERthat I was really attached to fan control
25:03SPEAKERis that I've had this infuriating acoustic issue
25:06SPEAKERwith this cooler ever since I got it.
25:08SPEAKER- Yep.
25:09SPEAKER- And like I said, I was Googling around AIOs
25:12SPEAKERthinking maybe I should, I like this cooler,
25:14SPEAKERit performs really well, but I cannot abide to this noise.
25:16SPEAKERI actually meant to install a guitar tuner app on my phone
25:19SPEAKERbefore we did this and tell you what note
25:23SPEAKERmy cooler produces.
25:25SPEAKER- Okay.
25:26SPEAKER- Because like it's, mm.
25:28SPEAKER- Oh, it makes it a louder noise?
25:30SPEAKER- Well, I mean, you know, it is extremely noticeable
25:33SPEAKERwhen the fans ramp up on this thing.
25:34SPEAKERLike it is, the bigger point is if I, again,
25:37SPEAKERif I had installed the tuner,
25:38SPEAKERI could have told you that it's like an A sharp
25:39SPEAKERor whatever, it is a very consistent, steady tone
25:44SPEAKERwith a specific pitch that I promise you is like.
25:47SPEAKER- Just gets into your brain.
25:49SPEAKER- Probably in the like 450 Hertz range
25:51SPEAKERor something like that, like an A or A sharp, I don't know.
25:54SPEAKERBut, and we're gonna get into some guitar tuning stuff
25:57SPEAKERhere in a minute when I finally figured out
25:59SPEAKERwhat was going on here.
26:00SPEAKERNoctua in their infinite competency
26:05SPEAKERbecause Noctua was one of those companies
26:06SPEAKERthat like goes so far above and beyond
26:08SPEAKERand like making adapters for things,
26:10SPEAKERpublishing more information than you ever thought you needed
26:13SPEAKERabout their products on and on.
26:15SPEAKER- Big giant nerds.
26:16SPEAKER- I, yes, they are like metal and thermal
26:19SPEAKERand acoustic nerds like you would not believe.
26:22SPEAKERI landed on a page entitled fan speed offset,
26:26SPEAKERbeat a frequency theory and how to further optimize acoustics.
26:29SPEAKER- Oh my God.
26:30SPEAKER- And so I figured out what's going on here
26:32SPEAKERbecause again, if you look at that cooler,
26:33SPEAKERit's two towers, right, and I've got a fan on each one.
26:38SPEAKERAnd it also happens to be pointed right at the exhaust fan
26:41SPEAKERout the back of the case.
26:43SPEAKER- Oh, so it intakes the front and the front side of the case
26:46SPEAKERand it's blowing out toward the exhaust fan on the back?
26:48SPEAKER- Yeah, so these two fans on the coolers are one fan
26:51SPEAKERis blowing directly into the intake of the next fan,
26:54SPEAKERlike I don't know, three inches away from it.
26:55SPEAKER- Through the fins of a radiator.
26:57SPEAKER- Right, and then like five or six fans.
26:59SPEAKERWell, no, but it's specifically the interaction
27:01SPEAKERof the air currents that's causing this.
27:03SPEAKERAnd then there's the exhaust fan for the overall case
27:06SPEAKERis roughly about the exact same height,
27:07SPEAKERlike I don't know, six inches or less,
27:09SPEAKERmaybe away from the second fan on the cooler.
27:13SPEAKERHave you ever tuned a guitar by ear before?
27:15SPEAKER- Yeah, my dog has please.
27:17SPEAKER- Are you familiar with the beats?
27:19SPEAKERWell, no, I mean, using the two string method.
27:21SPEAKER- No, I've never done that before.
27:22SPEAKER- No, so I smacked myself in the forehead
27:24SPEAKERwhen I found this page, because I learned 25 years ago,
27:27SPEAKERyou can tune a guitar by playing the same note
27:30SPEAKERon two adjacent strings and listening
27:32SPEAKERfor the beats interaction between.
27:35SPEAKER- Oh, wow, so you just go like two frets down
27:38SPEAKERon the low string?
27:39SPEAKER- So it's like the fifth fret,
27:41SPEAKERexcept for I forget which string it is,
27:43SPEAKERother than one string, it's if you play the fifth fret
27:45SPEAKERon the lower string, it'll produce the same note
27:48SPEAKERas the open note on the next.
27:51SPEAKERAnd so you play those two strings simultaneously
27:54SPEAKERand if they're off a little bit,
27:57SPEAKERif they're very close but off a little bit,
27:58SPEAKERyou'll hear like an oscillating to the sound.
28:02SPEAKER- The harmonics, they make higher piece and troughs, right,
28:06SPEAKERon the waves?
28:07SPEAKER- So there are a bunch of like, what's the term,
28:09SPEAKERlike a bunch of waveforms basically on this Noctua page,
28:12SPEAKERif you really want to see graphed out
28:14SPEAKERhow these different frequencies interact with each other.
28:17SPEAKERBut again, like I just, I slapped myself in the head
28:20SPEAKERwhen I found this, because again,
28:21SPEAKERI knew about this phenomenon through guitar tuning
28:23SPEAKERand never even considered that it might also apply
28:25SPEAKERto computer fans that are adjacent to each other.
28:28SPEAKER- You know what else is weird?
28:30SPEAKER- What's that?
28:30SPEAKER- It also applies to jet engines, turbo jets,
28:33SPEAKERand rockets and shit like that.
28:34SPEAKER- Like I said, air is the enemy.
28:36SPEAKERIt's all over the place.
28:37SPEAKERIt's everywhere around us.
28:38SPEAKERYou can't see it, but it's there, annoying you subtly.
28:42SPEAKERAnyway, this was a huge revelation.
28:44SPEAKERAnd basically, sure enough, I went into the UEFI
28:47SPEAKERas I was trying to tweak speeds
28:48SPEAKERto get them close to my fan control profile.
28:51SPEAKERAnd all I had to do was offset each one of those three fans
28:54SPEAKERby 75 or 100 RPM.
28:57SPEAKER- So, okay.
28:58SPEAKER- And the whole problem went away, like magically, instantly.
29:00SPEAKERAnd I was like, so happy, I can't even tell you.
29:03SPEAKER- Does Noctua not do that automatically?
29:04SPEAKERLike most of the Twin Tower coolers
29:07SPEAKERship with two different RPM fans, in my experience.
29:11SPEAKER- Right at the top of this,
29:12SPEAKERI'll put this Beats frequency theory page
29:15SPEAKERthat they publish in the show notes.
29:16SPEAKERBut right at the top, it says they're newer models.
29:21SPEAKERBut the two fans contained in the blah, blah, blah,
29:22SPEAKERyou know, NF-A12, G2, blah, blah, blah,
29:27SPEAKERare slightly offset in speed
29:28SPEAKERin order to avoid such phenomena.
29:31SPEAKERWith one running about 50 RPM slower
29:33SPEAKERand one about 50 RPM faster
29:35SPEAKERin the case of the NF-A12, blah, blah, blah.
29:37SPEAKERLike they have now accounted for this,
29:38SPEAKERbut they did not at the time of,
29:41SPEAKERor although part of the problem also is that
29:44SPEAKERI had both fans running into the CPU and CPU opt headers.
29:48SPEAKER- Which CPU opt is usually an exact mirror
29:50SPEAKERof the CPU. - Yes, yes.
29:51SPEAKERThey actually just use the exact same fan settings.
29:54SPEAKERSo they were running at exactly the same speed,
29:55SPEAKERexcept that they're never exactly the same speed.
29:58SPEAKERIf you watch the readout on the fans,
30:00SPEAKERyou'll always see them kind of within 25 RPM
30:04SPEAKERof each other up and down subtly.
30:06SPEAKERAnd that's what was generating this tone.
30:08SPEAKERLike the white noise of a fan to be clear is fine.
30:10SPEAKERLike that's expected.
30:11SPEAKERIt was specifically this tone,
30:13SPEAKERthis droning pitch sound that was always there.
30:17SPEAKER- Was it the two fans on the coolers
30:19SPEAKERor was it the fans on the coolers and the rear fan?
30:21SPEAKER- I've never, I never quite figured that out.
30:23SPEAKERI just offset all of them.
30:24SPEAKERSo I had to move, I had to move the other CPU cooler one
30:27SPEAKERto one of the, like the AIO pump header basically
30:29SPEAKERon the mode board. - Yes, you can change
30:30SPEAKERthe speed, yeah, yeah.
30:31SPEAKER- To give me independent control of that fan.
30:33SPEAKERBut yeah, so I basically, once I had that,
30:36SPEAKERI just went in there and again,
30:37SPEAKERoffset each one by like 5% or whatever.
30:39SPEAKERAnd that was enough to basically make them never spin
30:42SPEAKERclose enough to the same speeds to cause this noise again.
30:45SPEAKER- That is absolutely wild.
30:47SPEAKERIt was, it was a nice moment 'cause like I said,
30:50SPEAKERI was thinking about like moving to an AIO or something
30:52SPEAKER'cause I just did not know what was causing this.
30:54SPEAKER- So I've never had that happen when you're going like,
30:59SPEAKERwhen there's, usually in my experience,
31:01SPEAKERthat happens when there's like,
31:02SPEAKERI used to have a big Cooler Master cooler, a V8 I think,
31:05SPEAKERthat had a shroud around the tower
31:07SPEAKERand it had fans on either side.
31:10SPEAKERAnd you could make that happen if you,
31:11SPEAKERif you did exactly the thing you said,
31:12SPEAKERif the fans were running more or less the same speed,
31:15SPEAKERyou'd get, either you'd get a whistle
31:18SPEAKERor a womp, womp, womp, womp, womp, which was worse.
31:22SPEAKERAnd you solve that problem by making the intake faster
31:25SPEAKERthan they're slower than the middle one or something.
31:27SPEAKERI can't remember, you had to basically make a vacuum.
31:32SPEAKERBut like, I never had them interact
31:33SPEAKERoutside of that tower cooler.
31:35SPEAKERLike once, usually that was,
31:38SPEAKERthat it has to have to be pretty close to each other
31:40SPEAKERfor it to be an impact.
31:41SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
31:42SPEAKERMaybe for all I know, it was all three fans
31:44SPEAKERinteracting with each other
31:45SPEAKER'cause it was extremely loud on mine.
31:46SPEAKERAnd also as the fans ramped up and down,
31:48SPEAKERit would start and stop all the time,
31:50SPEAKERwhich is the thing that really drives you insane.
31:52SPEAKER'Cause if something is super consistent,
31:54SPEAKERyou just get used to it eventually.
31:56SPEAKERBut it's when it comes and goes constantly
31:58SPEAKERis when it really stands out.
32:00SPEAKER- But you haven't solved your Linux problem yet,
32:03SPEAKERwhich is you don't have fan control in Linux.
32:06SPEAKER- So I did, well, so I did basically what you said,
32:08SPEAKERwhich was I literally dumped the JSON file
32:10SPEAKERfrom my fan control profile
32:13SPEAKERand just eyeballed that on my phone
32:14SPEAKERwhile I was in the UEFI trying to recreate the curves.
32:18SPEAKERAnd I'm on a pretty high end ASUS motherboard.
32:20SPEAKERAnd even still the fan control in the UEFI
32:23SPEAKERis just god awful compared to something
32:25SPEAKERlike actual fan control in Windows.
32:27SPEAKERLike you can basically get there,
32:30SPEAKERbut just working with it is such a chore.
32:33SPEAKER- The thing that's really nice about fan control
32:35SPEAKERis that like I said, I have a thermistor coming off
32:38SPEAKERof the thermistor header on my motherboard
32:39SPEAKERthat's taped up into the radiator.
32:42SPEAKERAnd I know that the radiator temperature
32:45SPEAKERand the liquid temperature have about a seven degree offset.
32:49SPEAKERIt varies from like five degrees at the low end,
32:51SPEAKERwhere it doesn't matter,
32:52SPEAKERto eight degrees on the high end
32:54SPEAKERwhen the water is really hot
32:56SPEAKERand it's running at full bore for a while.
32:58SPEAKERAnd so I just set an offset, I create a fake sensor
33:02SPEAKERthat's the sensor for the thermistor plus eight degrees.
33:06SPEAKERAnd then I build my curves off of that.
33:07SPEAKER- It lets you do that, it lets you define this as,
33:09SPEAKERhey, add eight degrees to this at all times?
33:11SPEAKER- Just add eight degrees, yeah.
33:13SPEAKERYou can do things like make a curve
33:18SPEAKERthat fan speed is based on
33:20SPEAKERthat is a 20% offset off of another curve.
33:25SPEAKERSo like, I know that my back fan needs to work harder.
33:28SPEAKERMy back exhaust fan needs to work harder
33:30SPEAKERif the radiator's spin up.
33:31SPEAKERSo I have a sink fan for the back
33:35SPEAKERthat's just 20% faster
33:42SPEAKERit's the radiator spin speed plus 20%.
33:45SPEAKERAnd that ends up exhausting the heat
33:47SPEAKERout of the back of the case
33:48SPEAKERso that it doesn't heat up the underside of my desk
33:51SPEAKERwhen things are getting hot.
33:53SPEAKER- Right, the superiority of fan control and windows
33:55SPEAKERas a way to set fan and figs is like unquestionable.
33:59SPEAKERI mean, you can't overstate how much better it is
34:01SPEAKERthan what's in the UEFI.
34:03SPEAKERBut like I said, even if it hadn't been
34:05SPEAKERfor this wind ring zero thing,
34:06SPEAKERwhich isn't even really an issue now,
34:08SPEAKERI still needed something cross OS that was gonna work, so.
34:11SPEAKER- Yeah.
34:12SPEAKER- The thing I miss the most from fan control
34:14SPEAKERwhen I was trying to make this work in the UEFI
34:16SPEAKERis the hysteresis settings.
34:18SPEAKER- Yeah.
34:18SPEAKER- Which basically we've talked about this before,
34:20SPEAKERbut it's what lets you take like the history into account.
34:24SPEAKERLike you can set more nuanced config based on,
34:26SPEAKERlike, hey, only start ramping the fans up at this rate
34:28SPEAKERif it's been above this temperature
34:30SPEAKERfor X number of seconds or whatever, right?
34:32SPEAKER- Well, and yeah.
34:34SPEAKER- Which eliminates the constant fan spiking up and down
34:37SPEAKERbecause by default it's just responding
34:39SPEAKERto immediate changes in temperature when you would rather
34:42SPEAKERthey ramp up kind of gradually, you know,
34:44SPEAKERlike the temperature will spike for a second
34:46SPEAKERand go back down and you don't necessarily need the fans
34:48SPEAKERto spike accordingly, but you know, you want it,
34:51SPEAKERyou only want the fans to ramp up
34:52SPEAKERwhen there is prolonged elevated temperature.
34:55SPEAKERSo the ASUS UEFI that I've got does have some very,
35:00SPEAKERvery basic hysteresis now, but it's literally just a,
35:03SPEAKERit's literally just a drop down per fan
35:05SPEAKERthat's like wait X number of seconds between zero and five
35:08SPEAKERbefore ramping the fans.
35:09SPEAKERSo like that helped a little bit, but it's not,
35:11SPEAKERit's not as good, but.
35:13SPEAKER- It doesn't let you adjust the rate, right?
35:14SPEAKER'Cause that's the thing I have.
35:16SPEAKER- That's the problem is it doesn't actually
35:17SPEAKERlet you adjust the rate.
35:18SPEAKERAnd it's, like I said, it's a fixed between zero
35:20SPEAKERand five seconds.
35:21SPEAKERYou can't go above five, like it's very limited,
35:24SPEAKERbut between that and eliminating this tone
35:27SPEAKERthat was driving me insane, I think I'm pretty happy
35:29SPEAKERwith where my fans are at now in a way
35:30SPEAKERthat works cross platform.
35:32SPEAKER- Most of the way there.
35:33SPEAKERIt's funny, so while we're talking about this,
35:36SPEAKERI've been, I've been testing some dual CCD weirdness
35:42SPEAKERacross Linux and Windows this week.
35:45SPEAKERBecause when we played, I guess you maybe,
35:48SPEAKERdid we play Helldivers?
35:49SPEAKERWere you there when we played Helldivers?
35:50SPEAKER- Yes.
35:52SPEAKER- I had to turn, I had to flip the game mode
35:53SPEAKERon in the BIOS on the 9950X3D
35:55SPEAKERbecause I was getting really, really gnarly stuttering
35:58SPEAKERif there was anything else running on this computer.
36:00SPEAKERAnd since I run OBS on this computer
36:03SPEAKERto send Vinnie the feed when we play games on Monday
36:06SPEAKERwith Nexlander, I was getting horrible stuttering
36:10SPEAKERwhen OBS was running, basically.
36:12SPEAKERSo I went and switched off the second CCD
36:14SPEAKERand essentially made my 9950X3D and 9800X3D
36:18SPEAKERand rebooted and everything was great.
36:22SPEAKERI went, I had to go back and turn it back on later
36:23SPEAKERand jump through some hoops.
36:25SPEAKERI ended up having the same problem with Counter-Strike,
36:28SPEAKERactually, which is a kind of like,
36:29SPEAKERI play Counter-Strike sometimes when I just want
36:31SPEAKERto mindlessly shoot things and get yelled at slurs at me.
36:37SPEAKERWords are hard right now, sorry.
36:40SPEAKERBut it was stuttering as well, which I haven't ever seen.
36:43SPEAKER- In Windows?
36:44SPEAKER- In Windows.
36:45SPEAKERI installed both Helldivers and Counter-Strike in Linux
36:49SPEAKERand weirdly, no stuttering.
36:53SPEAKER- No issues.
36:53SPEAKERWait, so does Helldivers work in Linux?
36:55SPEAKER'Cause it's got some kind of branded anti-cheat
36:58SPEAKERthat pops up when you launch it.
36:59SPEAKERI assumed that was low level, but maybe not.
37:01SPEAKER- It is, but they actively engaged with the community
37:05SPEAKERand built, installed the Linux version of it.
37:07SPEAKER- Oh, that's awesome.
37:08SPEAKERGood for them.
37:09SPEAKER- Yeah, like there are a lot of non-epic,
37:12SPEAKERnon-Call of Duty games that do anti-cheat have engaged
37:18SPEAKER'cause they want Steam Deck support.
37:19SPEAKER- Oh, I didn't even, I just kind of assumed
37:21SPEAKEReverybody that was doing low level anti-cheat in Windows
37:24SPEAKERjust had a zero tolerance, like fuck Linux,
37:26SPEAKERwe're not gonna bother kind of policy.
37:27SPEAKERThat's encouraging.
37:28SPEAKER- The more competitive the game,
37:30SPEAKERthe more likely they are to have that policy
37:32SPEAKERbecause explicitly those,
37:35SPEAKERthey aren't kernel level anti-cheat on Linux, right?
37:37SPEAKERSo presumably you could run Linux in a virtual machine
37:40SPEAKERor some bullshit and then hack memory from outside the VM
37:43SPEAKERto do your cheating.
37:45SPEAKERHelldivers, like they have anti-cheat in so that,
37:48SPEAKERbecause the problem in Helldivers one
37:49SPEAKERwas people would jump into random games,
37:52SPEAKERimmediately unlock the entire skill tree and tech tree
37:55SPEAKERand like destroy people's progressions, which sucks.
37:58SPEAKERThat's a terrible experience for the people
38:00SPEAKERwho have done nothing wrong other than play with randos.
38:04SPEAKERSo that's why they have anti-cheat.
38:05SPEAKERThey talked about it when they launched,
38:06SPEAKERbut they immediately, like within a,
38:10SPEAKERit was one of the first patches post launch,
38:12SPEAKERthey wanted Steam Deck support.
38:14SPEAKERSo they flipped on the Linux version of their anti-cheat,
38:17SPEAKERwhich brought it online
38:18SPEAKERand it's been like that way ever since.
38:20SPEAKER- That's cool, and so no stuttering in Linux, huh?
38:23SPEAKER- No stuttering on Linux.
38:25SPEAKER- No stuttering.
38:26SPEAKER- And so I'm working on figuring out,
38:27SPEAKERlike at some point I'll do a video for that for PC World.
38:30SPEAKERI don't know exactly what the form for that's gonna be.
38:32SPEAKERIf people have examples of things that stutter on Windows,
38:36SPEAKERbut don't stutter on Linux, I would love to hear about them
38:38SPEAKERwith the dual CCD chips, especially,
38:41SPEAKERor like I don't, I'm having a hard time repeating it
38:44SPEAKERactually is the other problem.
38:46SPEAKERIt's a little hinky.
38:47SPEAKER- I don't know what's crazier to me,
38:49SPEAKERthe fact that this is still a problem at all
38:52SPEAKERon their second gen of dual CCD processors
38:55SPEAKERor the fact that it is not a problem in Linux.
38:58SPEAKEROh no, second, 99 or 79.
39:00SPEAKER- 59, 50 was a dual CCD too, wasn't it?
39:02SPEAKER- Well, yeah, I guess they did have the same problem there
39:05SPEAKEReven without the 3D V-cache, right?
39:07SPEAKERTo a lesser extent.
39:08SPEAKER- So it seems like it's a Windows problem.
39:10SPEAKERIt's weird because Linux just generally seems to do better
39:13SPEAKERwith scheduling stuff.
39:16SPEAKERFor example, so I'll often play like a big kind of,
39:21SPEAKERlike a crafting game or something like that
39:23SPEAKERthat's just kind of like a game that you play
39:25SPEAKERand then I'll have a TV show or a football game
39:27SPEAKERor basketball game or something on in the background
39:29SPEAKERon another monitor.
39:30SPEAKERAnd when, on the Windows side,
39:33SPEAKERwhen things are under heavy load,
39:35SPEAKERlike when you're loading a level
39:36SPEAKERor it's doing shader compilation or something like that,
39:39SPEAKERthe video pauses or chunks or drops a little resolution
39:42SPEAKERor just gets kind of freezy and janky for a second
39:46SPEAKERand then recovers.
39:47SPEAKERThat doesn't happen on Linux, which is wild.
39:50SPEAKERLike this has just been a feature of Windows
39:52SPEAKERfor as long as I can remember.
39:54SPEAKERAnd the fact that like you can have that stuff
39:56SPEAKERwith just work on the other side is quite nice.
40:00SPEAKER- That's cool.
40:01SPEAKERI don't want to get way out over my skis here.
40:03SPEAKERThis was just kind of a knee-jerk guess
40:04SPEAKERbased on what you're saying,
40:05SPEAKERbut I wonder if this is maybe kind of the power
40:08SPEAKERof a more open operating system in action
40:11SPEAKERbecause like the Windows scheduler presumably is,
40:13SPEAKERyou know, that's entirely closed source
40:15SPEAKERand developed at Microsoft versus Intel and AMD
40:18SPEAKERare both very heavy Linux kernel contributors.
40:21SPEAKERAnd like, like when I first got this Alder Lake
40:23SPEAKERand moved to Linux and the Alder Lake was a brand new chip,
40:25SPEAKERI was like looking for intel.com origin contributors
40:31SPEAKERon the Linux kernel mailing list.
40:32SPEAKERAnd you would see patches coming through constantly
40:34SPEAKERfrom Intel engineers adding stuff to the kernel scheduling
40:38SPEAKERand the, especially the, like the heterogeneous core stuff,
40:42SPEAKERlike the performance versus efficiency cores.
40:45SPEAKERThey spent, I think it was like a Linux kernel 5.15
40:49SPEAKERwas the first version that had like basic support
40:52SPEAKERfor the Alder Lake P and E cores,
40:53SPEAKERbut it was like late into the,
40:55SPEAKERthey're still adding it I think,
40:56SPEAKERthey're still tweaking stuff,
40:57SPEAKERbut it was like late into the Linux 6.x kernel,
41:01SPEAKERyou're still making like fairly major changes
41:03SPEAKERto that stuff.
41:03SPEAKERSo like, like here we have a case of the CPU makers
41:07SPEAKERmaybe more directly having the ability
41:10SPEAKERto help massage the performance of their hardware.
41:12SPEAKERI don't know, that's just a guess.
41:14SPEAKER- So I know from talking to folks at AMD and Intel,
41:18SPEAKERthat the task scheduler,
41:20SPEAKERlike the thread scheduler stuff in Windows
41:23SPEAKERwas hard for them to make changes to,
41:26SPEAKERwhich is one of the reasons that like we saw bad perf
41:28SPEAKERon both Intel and AMD chips
41:32SPEAKERwhen they launched last year, right?
41:34SPEAKERI think that we're, some of that stuff has changed.
41:38SPEAKERLike right now I know AMD,
41:40SPEAKERwhen you update chipset drivers,
41:42SPEAKERit can, they can, they can write a new thread scheduler
41:45SPEAKERinto Windows now.
41:47SPEAKERI don't know how low level that can go
41:48SPEAKERand I don't know like what the process for that is,
41:52SPEAKERbut because Microsoft moved really slow on that stuff
41:55SPEAKERfor a long time, they now,
41:57SPEAKERthey now have the opportunity to like take,
42:00SPEAKERtake that in their own hands.
42:02SPEAKERIt just seems heavy though.
42:04SPEAKERLike, I think it's just, I think it's just
42:06SPEAKERlike looking at the idle memory on my Linux machine,
42:09SPEAKERon the Linux boot versus the Windows boot,
42:11SPEAKERit's just, there's just way more crap running
42:14SPEAKERon the Windows machine I think is the other side of it.
42:16SPEAKERAnyway.
42:17SPEAKERI would believe that.
42:19SPEAKERWe'll, but yeah, more on that on PC world.
42:21SPEAKERI'll talk about it here when we, when we,
42:22SPEAKERwhen I figure out how to test it
42:23SPEAKERand how to make a video for it.
42:25SPEAKERI need to, I need to get back to desktop Linux.
42:27SPEAKERIt's, I'm gonna tell you,
42:29SPEAKERlike I'm really enjoying the cachey stuff.
42:31SPEAKERThe only thing that doesn't work consistently
42:33SPEAKERis Fortnite and Call of Duty.
42:35SPEAKERAnd it runs really well.
42:40SPEAKERIt's, I've been surprised at how easy it is.
42:43SPEAKER- Well, hey, segue into my other topic.
42:45SPEAKER- Yeah, what you got?
42:46SPEAKER- I'll probably get back to messing with desktop Linux stuff
42:49SPEAKERwhen I finish with this down the hall backup project,
42:51SPEAKERwhich I'm much closer to finishing.
42:54SPEAKERI'm here with an update on the powering hard drives
42:56SPEAKERoutside of the case off of a separate power supply thing.
43:00SPEAKER- I like, okay, I'm looking at the picture of this
43:02SPEAKER'cause you posted a picture on our show notes
43:05SPEAKERand it's, I can see the top of your server case
43:08SPEAKERand I see the Pi KVM with an HDMI in and ethernet in,
43:13SPEAKERI think, and a USB out and ethernet out.
43:17SPEAKER- Yes, well, there are two there.
43:18SPEAKERYes, either the second RJ45 or ethernet cable
43:21SPEAKERis the ATX control on the server.
43:24SPEAKERLike it plugs into the ATX header on the board
43:26SPEAKERso you can send software power on and reset signals
43:29SPEAKERthat'll effectively press those buttons for you.
43:32SPEAKER- That's awesome.
43:32SPEAKER- The USB is going to the serial port
43:36SPEAKERon the back of the motherboard.
43:37SPEAKER- Oh my God.
43:38SPEAKER- 'Cause I've gotten serial console monitoring.
43:40SPEAKERHave I run a screen session?
43:42SPEAKER- Wild.
43:43SPEAKER- I made a system D service on the Pi KVM
43:45SPEAKERto start a screen session that monitors
43:47SPEAKERthat serial output on the server.
43:50SPEAKERBecause, hey, if the video dies on the server,
43:52SPEAKERI've still got text-based insight into what it's doing.
43:54SPEAKERThat has saved my ass at least a couple of times.
43:56SPEAKER- Are you using onboard video for the server?
43:59SPEAKER- What do you mean?
44:00SPEAKEROh yeah, yeah.
44:00SPEAKER- You don't have a discrete video card.
44:02SPEAKER- There's no GPU in that,
44:03SPEAKERor there's no graphics card in that machine.
44:05SPEAKER- Okay, so then I was going to say there's four,
44:08SPEAKERit looks like 20 terabyte Western Digital hard drives
44:10SPEAKERin what looks like a little plastic rack.
44:13SPEAKER- Those are cool.
44:14SPEAKERThey're way too expensive for what they are.
44:16SPEAKERThose are actually modular.
44:18SPEAKERIf the drives weren't hooked up right now,
44:20SPEAKERI could grab one and show you.
44:21SPEAKERBut looking at that stack,
44:23SPEAKERI might post this photo in the show notes.
44:24SPEAKERI should blur out the serial numbers on the drive,
44:26SPEAKERI guess, first, but.
44:28SPEAKER- Yeah.
44:29SPEAKER- Those are made by a company called Sedna, S-E-D-N-A.
44:32SPEAKERAnd those are modular,
44:33SPEAKERso each one of those drives will lift off
44:36SPEAKERand are separate.
44:37SPEAKERLike I can pull that stack apart.
44:40SPEAKERThese are basically just little rubberized feet
44:42SPEAKERthat screw into the mounting holes on the drives.
44:45SPEAKERAnd they've got little pegs underneath each one.
44:48SPEAKERLike if you look at the top of the-
44:50SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, I see where they are.
44:51SPEAKER- You can see the little domed insert.
44:54SPEAKERSo they're basically made to stack,
44:55SPEAKERso you can put those feet on each drive
44:58SPEAKERand then they will stack as many.
44:59SPEAKERAnd I bought like a dozen of them.
45:01SPEAKERThey're way too expensive.
45:02SPEAKERLike spinning metal hard drives,
45:04SPEAKERI would totally buy some of those to send out.
45:06SPEAKER- Yes.
45:07SPEAKER- And then there's a power supply
45:08SPEAKERthat's plugged into the hard drives
45:09SPEAKERand the ATX power connector is just a stump.
45:12SPEAKER- It's got that stump.
45:13SPEAKERIt's got, Seasonic calls it a tester.
45:15SPEAKERIt's not a tester in the sense that it like tests current.
45:17SPEAKERIt's really just a jump starter.
45:19SPEAKERAll it does is doing is it's a permanent fixture
45:22SPEAKERfor what you would normally use paperclips for
45:24SPEAKERto jump those two pins.
45:25SPEAKER- Yeah, does it have a resistor on it
45:28SPEAKERor is it just a piece of plastic with a jump over the-
45:30SPEAKER- It looks to just be a plastic, 24-pin plastic insert
45:34SPEAKERwith those two pins bridged.
45:36SPEAKER- Interesting.
45:37SPEAKER- But I assume the, you need load on the power supply thing
45:40SPEAKERwas not an issue because I've got these drives plugged in,
45:42SPEAKERso those put load on it.
45:43SPEAKER- Well, so those will put loads, yeah,
45:44SPEAKERthose will put loads on the power supply.
45:48SPEAKERThey only put loads, I can't remember which voltage
45:50SPEAKERthe spinning hard drives use,
45:51SPEAKERbut they'll only put loads on certain rails.
45:54SPEAKERBut since you're not running electronics on any of this,
45:56SPEAKERit's fine.
45:57SPEAKERLike the stuff that you're running isn't.
45:59SPEAKER- So there's a lot of FUD about this from the old days
46:03SPEAKERwhen old power supplies didn't have resistors,
46:06SPEAKERlike they didn't have current protection, basically.
46:08SPEAKER- Sure.
46:09SPEAKER- So if you left a power supply in old,
46:12SPEAKERlike when I say old, I mean like early 2000s,
46:14SPEAKERlate '90s power supply on with no draw on it,
46:18SPEAKERwith nothing pulling current on it,
46:20SPEAKERthey would eventually burn out at least one rail
46:22SPEAKERand sometimes multiples.
46:23SPEAKER- Oh.
46:24SPEAKER- Most of them have, now have internal resistors
46:29SPEAKERthat will make sure that there's some draw
46:31SPEAKERso that they provide proper voltages on the right rails
46:37SPEAKERor even if you're not putting draw
46:39SPEAKERon one particular rail or not.
46:40SPEAKERSo like it shouldn't be a problem
46:43SPEAKERwith any modern power supply
46:45SPEAKERor even like old, decent power supplies.
46:47SPEAKER- Cool, well, indeed, there has been no problem here.
46:49SPEAKERThere are two things that I wanna get into with this.
46:51SPEAKERFirst, I'll get the housekeeping out of the way first
46:54SPEAKERof just generally how this went, went totally fine.
46:57SPEAKERLike the tip I got from a couple of people
47:00SPEAKERon the Discord last week who also do stuff like this
47:02SPEAKERwas to turn the external power supply on first.
47:05SPEAKER- Yeah.
47:05SPEAKER- To let the external hard drive spin up
47:07SPEAKERand then turn the machine on.
47:09SPEAKERAnd then when you're done, do the inverse,
47:11SPEAKERshut the machine down first and then,
47:14SPEAKERand interestingly in my case,
47:16SPEAKERI guess this is like modern SATA spec or whatever.
47:18SPEAKERInterestingly, the hard drives
47:20SPEAKERthat are off the external power supply spun down
47:23SPEAKERwhen I shut down the machine,
47:25SPEAKERbut before I turned off the external power supply, so.
47:27SPEAKER- Yeah, think about it.
47:28SPEAKERI mean, basically what you're doing,
47:30SPEAKERif you've ever used these out of drives,
47:31SPEAKERit's the same process, right?
47:32SPEAKERYou typically turn on the external drive first
47:37SPEAKERand then you want the machine to boot up.
47:39SPEAKERYou can do it the other way on eSATA.
47:41SPEAKEROn this, if your BIOS is set to allow hot plug
47:44SPEAKERor your card is allowed to set to allow hot plug,
47:47SPEAKERyou could plug these in live.
47:49SPEAKERI just, it just seems like it's not worth the risk
47:55SPEAKERon a $400 hard drive or $300 hard drive.
47:57SPEAKER- You say that.
47:59SPEAKER- Yeah, here we go.
48:00SPEAKER- And then I took the risk and it was totally fine.
48:03SPEAKERSo I had gone in and set all four
48:05SPEAKERof those ports hot pluggable.
48:06SPEAKERI've got, like I said,
48:07SPEAKERI've got an ASUS workstation board in this machine
48:10SPEAKERand those boards come with a slim SAS header,
48:14SPEAKERwhich I had never heard of before, but that can be,
48:17SPEAKERit's a single header that can be broken out
48:18SPEAKERinto different types of drive interfaces.
48:20SPEAKERAnd one of those is you can get a cable
48:22SPEAKERthat is a single slim SAS connector to four SATA.
48:25SPEAKER- Oh.
48:26SPEAKER- So I actually bought a three foot slim SAS
48:28SPEAKERto four SATA header cable.
48:30SPEAKERPlug it into that slim SAS header.
48:32SPEAKERAnd that's what's coming out the back of my machine
48:33SPEAKERinto these four drives.
48:35SPEAKERAnyway.
48:36SPEAKER- Okay, so you're fine with that adapter.
48:37SPEAKERBut when I said, hey, why don't you just buy
48:38SPEAKERsome SATA hard drive power connectors, splitters.
48:42SPEAKER- Multiple things here.
48:43SPEAKERNumber one, that's not an adapter, that's just a cable.
48:45SPEAKER- Okay.
48:46SPEAKER- On both ends.
48:47SPEAKERNumber two, I sent you this photo
48:48SPEAKERso you could see why I can't just get splitters.
48:51SPEAKER- I mean, you could have.
48:53SPEAKER- You see how much clearance there is.
48:54SPEAKERThere's less than an inch of clearance
48:56SPEAKERon either side of this machine.
48:58SPEAKERAnd for a transfer that's going to take days.
49:01SPEAKER- Yeah.
49:02SPEAKER- I did not want to pull this machine
49:03SPEAKERall the way out into the middle of the floor
49:05SPEAKERand have drives hanging out the side of it
49:07SPEAKERbecause the splitters are not very long.
49:09SPEAKER- I get it.
49:10SPEAKER- When I had this extra power supply sitting around
49:12SPEAKERand was able to do this very tidy situation
49:15SPEAKERwhere the machine is back in the corner
49:16SPEAKERwhere it normally lives.
49:18SPEAKER- You just need to daisy chain those splitters.
49:20SPEAKER- This is days of transfer back and forth.
49:22SPEAKER- Yeah, I get it.
49:23SPEAKER- And so I just wanted a nice clean setup
49:25SPEAKERwhere the machine normally lives
49:26SPEAKERand just have to run a bunch of longer cables.
49:28SPEAKER- I was gonna say for folks who haven't followed the saga,
49:30SPEAKERthe whole point of this is you're making a dupe
49:33SPEAKERof your ZFS file system.
49:38SPEAKER- Effectively, I need to seed the initial backup
49:40SPEAKERto these drives over the fastest possible connection
49:42SPEAKER'cause otherwise I tried this a few months ago
49:44SPEAKERand it took like four days over that crappy enclosure
49:47SPEAKERthat I bought, which that enclosure is perfectly fine
49:49SPEAKERon a gigabit network connection,
49:51SPEAKERbut for like the full initial backup, it's way too slow.
49:54SPEAKER- It's gonna take a while.
49:55SPEAKER- It's just gonna take forever.
49:57SPEAKERI'm sure if I tested this out, I've done some tests with it
49:59SPEAKERand it took like overnight, basically,
50:01SPEAKERlike less than 24 hours as opposed to like four days.
50:04SPEAKER- So you could use the extenders.
50:06SPEAKER- Well, but again, this is working extremely well,
50:12SPEAKERbut the hot plug worked is the thing I was gonna say.
50:14SPEAKERBasically after one cycle of that,
50:17SPEAKERokay, I need to spin these drives up
50:18SPEAKERbefore I turned the machine on.
50:20SPEAKERI got sick of doing that and said,
50:22SPEAKERlet's just give it a try and see if it works.
50:24SPEAKERAnd so at some point I just flipped the extra power supply
50:27SPEAKERon midstream, all of the server was already up and running.
50:30SPEAKERPerfectly fine, spun the drives up,
50:33SPEAKERhad the kernel log in, Linux up,
50:37SPEAKERwatched all four drives just enumerate
50:39SPEAKERas soon as they spun up and everything worked perfectly fine
50:41SPEAKERand I was off to the races.
50:45SPEAKERThe thing I will say is we were talking
50:49SPEAKERabout the Seasonic tester.
50:51SPEAKERIf you have power supplies die a lot,
50:53SPEAKERif you do any kind of computer maintenance at all,
50:58SPEAKERbuying one of those $20, I wanna say thermal,
51:02SPEAKERKingwin makes the one that I have.
51:05SPEAKERIt's like $17 and you plug it in,
51:08SPEAKERit tells you what the rails are getting
51:10SPEAKERfor whatever you plug in.
51:11SPEAKERYou can plug in Sata Connect, you can plug in Molex,
51:14SPEAKERyou can plug in an ATX24 pin, is incredibly useful.
51:19SPEAKER- Does that show the actual voltage and current
51:22SPEAKERthat you're getting out of there?
51:23SPEAKER- It tells you what the minus 12, what the plus 12,
51:25SPEAKERdown to the one decimal.
51:27SPEAKERSo if you're getting, if your five volt rail is sagging,
51:30SPEAKERthen it'll tell you that, which is great.
51:33SPEAKER- That seems very handy.
51:34SPEAKERYeah, I keep saying tester
51:35SPEAKER'cause that's how the Seasonic manual refers to this thing,
51:38SPEAKERbut it's really just kind of a jumper.
51:39SPEAKER- Well, it's a tester in that if you plug that thing in
51:43SPEAKERand hit the button on the back of the power supply,
51:45SPEAKERit will, it should turn on.
51:46SPEAKER- Yeah, it'll spin up.
51:47SPEAKERIt'll spin the fan and turn the power supply on
51:48SPEAKERto see if it at least works.
51:49SPEAKERAnyway, this is all just a prelude
51:51SPEAKERto the thing I'm actually excited about here.
51:53SPEAKER- Yeah.
51:54SPEAKER- Which is, these are shucked drives.
51:58SPEAKER- Yeah.
51:58SPEAKER- That's why I have four of them
52:00SPEAKER'cause sometimes external drives
52:02SPEAKERgo on extremely deep sales, shucks.top.
52:05SPEAKERWe've talked about it before.
52:06SPEAKERIf you want cheap hard drives, go to shucks.top
52:09SPEAKERand keep an eye on the sales.
52:10SPEAKER- You saw that the, that they got Amazon, right?
52:15SPEAKER- No.
52:16SPEAKER- So you have to click,
52:18SPEAKERAmazon shut down price API access
52:22SPEAKERbecause they don't let you do price tracking
52:24SPEAKERand the last decent price time broke their rules apparently.
52:29SPEAKER- Oh no, it looks like is Newegg the same?
52:32SPEAKEROkay, I haven't been here in a little while.
52:33SPEAKERThey don't have prices from Amazon or Newegg anymore.
52:36SPEAKER- You gotta check both of them now.
52:37SPEAKERIt's a bummer.
52:38SPEAKER- Bummer?
52:39SPEAKERI mean, it's a pretty killer deal from Best Buy
52:41SPEAKERon some 20 terabytes right now.
52:43SPEAKER- Yeah.
52:44SPEAKER- If you're in the market for some hard drives anyway.
52:47SPEAKERSo these drives are the first drives I've bought
52:49SPEAKERthat have the 3.3 volt problem.
52:51SPEAKER- Do you have to do the captain tape?
52:53SPEAKER- So I have previously done the captain tape
52:54SPEAKERand just to remind people, as best I understand this issue,
52:59SPEAKERthere is one pin on SATA hard drives
53:01SPEAKERthat carries a 3.3 volt, signal's not the right word,
53:05SPEAKERbut you know what I mean?
53:06SPEAKER- Yeah.
53:07SPEAKER- This is 3.3 volt pin.
53:08SPEAKERThat's part of the SATA spec.
53:09SPEAKERI don't think it's really ever been used for anything
53:11SPEAKERas far as I've read.
53:12SPEAKERLike if a manufacturer has really ever used it
53:14SPEAKERfor anything in particular.
53:16SPEAKER- Well, it's been used to screw over people
53:17SPEAKERwho shuck the hard drives.
53:18SPEAKER- That seems to be the extent of its usefulness.
53:22SPEAKERThat's what I think we've said in the past.
53:24SPEAKERIf you shuck these drives and put them,
53:26SPEAKERattach them to a regular computer's power supply
53:29SPEAKERand they're getting 3.3 volts on that pin,
53:31SPEAKERthey will refuse to spin up.
53:32SPEAKER- Yeah.
53:33SPEAKER- And so the canonical,
53:35SPEAKERone of the canonical solutions for this
53:37SPEAKERis to use captain tape over that one pin
53:40SPEAKERto prevent it from getting any current
53:42SPEAKERand then they spin up just fine.
53:43SPEAKER- You can also cut the 3.3 volt line
53:45SPEAKERon your SATA power connector.
53:46SPEAKER- Also, that's where we're going.
53:48SPEAKERThere's a bunch of others.
53:49SPEAKERThere are a bunch of destructive solutions to this as well.
53:51SPEAKERYou see a lot of people, you can just take a razor blade
53:54SPEAKERand fold up that pin on the SATA connector on the drive
53:57SPEAKERand break it off. - Terrifying.
53:58SPEAKER- I would not do, I absolutely would not do that,
54:00SPEAKERbut you see pictures all over Reddit of people
54:01SPEAKERwho are like, yeah, I've been doing it for years, it's fine.
54:04SPEAKERI mean- - I don't like destructive solutions, personally.
54:07SPEAKER- I'm fine. - If I can help them.
54:09SPEAKER- Like that's gonna prevent,
54:11SPEAKERthat's gonna cause you warranty problems
54:12SPEAKERif you ever need to send the drive packs.
54:13SPEAKER- Definitely that's,
54:14SPEAKERalthough by the time you've shucked the drive anyway.
54:17SPEAKER- I mean, you're probably already
54:18SPEAKERin warranty problem territory there.
54:18SPEAKER- The shit may have sailed,
54:20SPEAKERalthough, okay, this is a whole other topic.
54:23SPEAKERWe'd have to get Kyle Wiens back on the show
54:25SPEAKERprobably to explore this.
54:26SPEAKERI did see some people on Reddit saying that
54:28SPEAKERthe actual legal precedent,
54:30SPEAKERto the extent that legal precedent still matters,
54:33SPEAKERis that they can only deny warranty claims
54:36SPEAKERif they can prove that the failure of the product
54:39SPEAKERis related to the modification you made.
54:42SPEAKER- I mean- - Like that was the gist of it
54:44SPEAKERwas like the kind of warranty stickers on devices
54:47SPEAKERthat say warranty void if broken have not held up in court.
54:50SPEAKER- Yeah, those warranty stickers
54:52SPEAKERhave never actually applied.
54:54SPEAKERThey're a deterrent, not an actual thing.
54:56SPEAKER- Right, and I always thought those were legally binding,
54:58SPEAKERbut apparently the standard is that unless you,
55:00SPEAKERunless you broke it yourself and they can prove that,
55:02SPEAKERthey are supposedly they still have to honor the warranty.
55:05SPEAKERAnyway, I've never loved the idea
55:08SPEAKERof breaking the pin off the drive.
55:09SPEAKERAnd I've also never loved the idea
55:10SPEAKERof snipping a wire off of the power supply,
55:12SPEAKER'cause that's the other option that you just mentioned
55:14SPEAKERis you can cut the 3.3 volt line on the SATA cable
55:19SPEAKERcoming out of the power supply.
55:20SPEAKER- I feel like I have modular power supplies
55:23SPEAKERmostly these days.
55:24SPEAKERAnd as a result, I have a butt load of three point,
55:27SPEAKERlike your power supply is scary
55:29SPEAKER'cause your SATA power connectors are a single black cable
55:33SPEAKERwith like six wires in it.
55:35SPEAKERAnd it's gonna be hard to look at that
55:37SPEAKERand know which one is the 3.3 volt one
55:38SPEAKERwithout getting out the multimeter.
55:40SPEAKER- Okay, so not to cut to the chase here,
55:41SPEAKERbut here is where Seasonic joins the ranks of Noctua
55:45SPEAKERin companies that go beyond.
55:48SPEAKERVery excited about this whole situation.
55:50SPEAKERIt's less about like partially ruining one SATA cable
55:55SPEAKERand more about, I don't like the idea of cutting a line
55:57SPEAKERthat's supposed to carry voltage.
55:59SPEAKER- Yeah.
55:59SPEAKER- Like I saw people say like, "Oh, snip the line
56:02SPEAKERand then put some hot glue on the end, you'll be fine."
56:03SPEAKERLike that does not sit well with me.
56:05SPEAKER- The right way to do that is not to put a hot glue,
56:07SPEAKERit's to put a shrink wrap, shrink tube on the end.
56:10SPEAKER- I still just, I'm skittish about cutting a wire
56:13SPEAKERthat's supposed to be carrying voltage
56:15SPEAKERand you've got the other end of it
56:17SPEAKERcoming out of the power supply.
56:18SPEAKEROkay, anyway, here's where I got very excited.
56:21SPEAKERShout out to one random ass Reddit comment,
56:23SPEAKERlike six posts deep in a sub thread,
56:26SPEAKERwho was like, "Instead of cutting the line,
56:29SPEAKERwhy don't you just get that Molex tool
56:31SPEAKERand de-pin the cable in a non-destructive fashion?"
56:34SPEAKER- I was gonna say like-
56:35SPEAKER- And I was like, "Oh man, tell me more."
56:37SPEAKER- Well, yeah, 'cause like those all it takes
56:39SPEAKERto pop the Molex out is like something pointy.
56:42SPEAKERI use a pair of jewelers tweezers.
56:43SPEAKER- So I have a YouTube video I will put in the show notes
56:46SPEAKERthat I got very excited about this.
56:48SPEAKERFirst of all, I didn't realize that's called
56:50SPEAKERlike a Molex style pin.
56:52SPEAKERI know very little, like-
56:54SPEAKER- That's the patent.
56:55SPEAKERThat's the company that made it.
56:56SPEAKER- Right, like the world of like electricity and pin outs
56:59SPEAKERand stuff like that is just not my world.
57:00SPEAKERI guess I would say I'm more of a software guy
57:03SPEAKERif it really came down to it.
57:05SPEAKERAre you reaching, do you have a tool?
57:08SPEAKER- I literally, well, so I sometimes use dental probes.
57:12SPEAKERThis is one of the reasons I keep dentist tools around
57:16SPEAKERis 'cause the pointy one is really good for getting up.
57:18SPEAKERSo the way that connector works is there's the pin
57:23SPEAKERthat is the wire that connects with the other wire
57:26SPEAKERon the other end of the connector has a little flange
57:29SPEAKERthat's kind of like a little bit spring loaded
57:31SPEAKERand pops up when you slam it in.
57:33SPEAKER- It's like two little wings basically, right?
57:34SPEAKERIt's like those two little wings or tabs that stick out.
57:37SPEAKER- Yeah, so you push it past a point
57:39SPEAKERand then the pop comes up and then you can't pull it back
57:42SPEAKERbecause of the metal sprung up to get it in place.
57:45SPEAKERIf you get something pointy and push that thing down
57:47SPEAKERand pull the wire out at the same time, it just pops out.
57:49SPEAKER- Yeah, so that's what that tool is for.
57:52SPEAKERBut the Molex branded tool is like $25 plus shipping.
57:55SPEAKERAnd it's basically just a giant oversized pair of tweezers.
57:57SPEAKERIt's just like, it's like a giant set of tweezers
58:00SPEAKERwith the little needle nose parts,
58:02SPEAKERlike perfectly sized and spaced to fit into the shroud
58:06SPEAKERor housing of a power supply cable.
58:07SPEAKER- So this is where I use jewelers tweezers.
58:10SPEAKERJewelers tweezers are the,
58:12SPEAKERlike they're great for taking out splinters and stuff,
58:14SPEAKERbut they're really, really insanely pointy tweezers
58:17SPEAKERthat you would use to like put, you know,
58:19SPEAKERhalf mil sprockets into a watch or something like that.
58:22SPEAKER- Sure.
58:23SPEAKER- And they're great for getting there.
58:25SPEAKERThe only problem with them is that eventually you drop them
58:28SPEAKERand then the point gets jacked up and you can't fix this.
58:29SPEAKERYou just have to buy a new pair, but.
58:31SPEAKER- So let me do you one better.
58:33SPEAKER- Okay.
58:34SPEAKER- 'Cause I was Googling around for like trying to find
58:35SPEAKERthat tool to see where to get it from and like, you know.
58:38SPEAKER- Should have just asked me, I could have helped with this.
58:39SPEAKER- It was well, so that would have solved my problem.
58:41SPEAKERIt was less than $25,
58:42SPEAKERalthough that's pretty pricey for a thing this specialized,
58:45SPEAKERbut it was more of the having to wait a day or two,
58:47SPEAKERbecause as soon as I keyed into, hey, I can do this.
58:49SPEAKERI did not want to wait.
58:51SPEAKERYou know how it gets sometimes, right?
58:53SPEAKER- I'm aware of how you get, yes.
58:54SPEAKER- Sometimes you've like,
58:55SPEAKERyou've had something that annoys you for long enough
58:57SPEAKERand you're like, okay, now I know how to fix this.
58:59SPEAKERNow I want to fix this right now
59:00SPEAKERand not have to wait two days for a delivery.
59:02SPEAKERBecause the thing I neglected to mention here
59:04SPEAKERis that the captain tape I have found
59:06SPEAKERis like extremely not a permanent solution.
59:09SPEAKER- Oh really?
59:10SPEAKEROh, yeah.
59:11SPEAKERYou have to replace it every time you disconnect
59:12SPEAKERand reconnect the power on the hard drive.
59:14SPEAKER- So that was the revelation was the first time I did it
59:16SPEAKERand then pulled the drives out
59:17SPEAKERand then started, went to go put them back in.
59:18SPEAKERI was like, oh God, this tape came off.
59:20SPEAKER- The captain tape is the, is like,
59:23SPEAKERit is the least destructive,
59:24SPEAKERbut it is the biggest pain in the ass
59:26SPEAKERof all of these things.
59:27SPEAKER- Cutting the exact right little strip of tape
59:30SPEAKERto put over that one pin made me never, ever, ever
59:33SPEAKERwant to do that again.
59:35SPEAKERAnd then when I realized I was going to have to do it
59:37SPEAKERevery single time I moved those drives around
59:39SPEAKERand put them in something else,
59:41SPEAKERI was like, oh, fuck this.
59:42SPEAKERI've got to figure something else out.
59:43SPEAKERAnd that's what started this whole thing.
59:45SPEAKERAnyway, I'm going to send you a picture here.
59:47SPEAKER- Okay, so I sent you a link to a $6 set
59:51SPEAKERof precision tweezers.
59:52SPEAKER- Okay, well, maybe, maybe I'll do that.
59:54SPEAKERYou can, I just sent you a picture of the PSU cable
59:57SPEAKERthat I de-pinned the 3.3 volt line from non-destructively.
1:00:00SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:00:01SPEAKER- Because Seasonic posts very explicit, detailed,
1:00:04SPEAKERpin out information and cable cross compatibility.
1:00:07SPEAKER- Oh, that's nice.
1:00:07SPEAKER- Matrices for all of their power supplies.
1:00:10SPEAKER- That's really good.
1:00:11SPEAKER- But I did that with two staples.
1:00:14SPEAKERSo I found, I'll put the, I forget, I should pull up the,
1:00:17SPEAKERI should say the name of the YouTube channel
1:00:18SPEAKER'cause this video was so useful.
1:00:20SPEAKERI don't want to just put the link in the show notes,
1:00:22SPEAKERalthough I will do that as well.
1:00:24SPEAKERNot from Concentrate is the name of the YouTube channel.
1:00:26SPEAKERThey've got 87,000 subscribers,
1:00:28SPEAKERbut they literally showed,
1:00:30SPEAKERlike they actually went through like some aftermarket
1:00:32SPEAKERMolex de-pinning tools and were like, yeah,
1:00:33SPEAKERthese work fine, but they're expensive.
1:00:35SPEAKERAnd some of them work less fine than others.
1:00:38SPEAKERBut what if you could get two staples
1:00:39SPEAKERand do the exact same thing?
1:00:40SPEAKERAnd then he walks through how to do that.
1:00:42SPEAKERSure enough, I pulled the stapler out of my desk drawer,
1:00:44SPEAKERpulled two staples off, bent them into L shapes.
1:00:47SPEAKER- I don't have a stapler anymore, I don't think.
1:00:49SPEAKER- It took about 10 seconds to de-pin this power supply cable
1:00:52SPEAKERwith two staples beautifully.
1:00:56SPEAKER- I'm pretty sure I could use this thing
1:00:57SPEAKERthat I used to clean the ear gunk out of my AirPods.
1:01:00SPEAKER- Frankly, but any like two tiny pieces of like sharp,
1:01:04SPEAKERthin metal will work,
1:01:06SPEAKERbut they need to be pretty specific in size
1:01:08SPEAKERand something you can apply force to.
1:01:10SPEAKERI just, I found the staple method to work extremely well
1:01:13SPEAKERif you have staples on hand.
1:01:15SPEAKER- I highly recommend getting a set of like two or three
1:01:20SPEAKERprecision tweezers.
1:01:21SPEAKERI like having one that's straight and is insanely sharp
1:01:24SPEAKERand really pointy and kind of like the kind of thing
1:01:26SPEAKERthat if you drop it on your foot,
1:01:27SPEAKERit's going to embed itself in the top of your foot.
1:01:31SPEAKERAnd then I also like one that has like a 45 degree bend
1:01:35SPEAKERon the end that's a little bit grippier
1:01:38SPEAKERand a little bit less pointier.
1:01:40SPEAKER- Yeah, I might grab some of these tweezers
1:01:42SPEAKERthat you linked me to just because like I bought
1:01:45SPEAKERone of those iFixit style screwdriver sets
1:01:48SPEAKERa couple of years ago,
1:01:49SPEAKERthat's got the like 800 different screwdriver bits in it.
1:01:52SPEAKERAnd I have extremely been happy to have that thing on hand
1:01:55SPEAKERmore times than I can count.
1:01:56SPEAKERSo like having some real tools around is nice,
1:01:59SPEAKERbut also the staple method works extremely well.
1:02:02SPEAKER- Well, so these, I started using these kinds of screwdriver.
1:02:04SPEAKERI mean, I started using these,
1:02:06SPEAKERI've always had these screwdrivers running
1:02:06SPEAKERso my grandfather liked to repair watches and like whenever
1:02:10SPEAKERhe would dull a pair of tweezers, he would grind them out.
1:02:13SPEAKERSo they'd be pointy again for pulling out tweezers
1:02:15SPEAKERand then hand them off to us.
1:02:18SPEAKERBut the, but yeah, they're like, look,
1:02:21SPEAKERwhen you have a pair of really pointy tweezers,
1:02:23SPEAKERit turns out everything looks like a tweezer problem.
1:02:25SPEAKER- Yeah, I can see it.
1:02:27SPEAKER- Also highly recommend the dental picks
1:02:29SPEAKERfor this kind of stuff.
1:02:30SPEAKERLike you can jam a dental pick into the end of that,
1:02:34SPEAKERinto the end of those molex connectors to push them out.
1:02:36SPEAKERIf you can't get, if you, if it's,
1:02:38SPEAKERif the cable is such that you can't pull the cable end
1:02:42SPEAKERto get it to release, you can jam one of those in
1:02:44SPEAKERand push it from the other end.
1:02:46SPEAKERAnd, and then you can get enough slack usually to pull it,
1:02:49SPEAKERto pull it loose.
1:02:50SPEAKERGood job on this, Brad.
1:02:51SPEAKERThis is a good job for this.
1:02:52SPEAKER- Thank you, I was extremely, so the,
1:02:54SPEAKERfiguring out the fan beats acoustic problem
1:02:57SPEAKERand then de-pinning this cable all happened
1:02:59SPEAKERwithin the space of like 36 hours or something.
1:03:02SPEAKER- That fan beats thing, it would have made me crazy.
1:03:04SPEAKER- It drove me insane.
1:03:06SPEAKERLike that's why I used fan control in Windows
1:03:07SPEAKERwas to control that sound more even
1:03:09SPEAKERthan the fans ramping up and down.
1:03:11SPEAKERSo like, but it was, it was a strong couple of days
1:03:14SPEAKERof like figuring out how to fix annoying problems
1:03:16SPEAKERwith things I had on hand,
1:03:18SPEAKERas opposed to like buying a whole new AIO
1:03:20SPEAKERor ordering some expensive tool or whatever.
1:03:22SPEAKERBut now I've got a permanent non-destructively
1:03:26SPEAKERmodded power supply cable that I can use
1:03:28SPEAKERto just spin these hard drives up
1:03:29SPEAKERwithout ever having to fuck with Captain Tape again.
1:03:32SPEAKERVery pleased with the whole situation.
1:03:34SPEAKER- Hold on, let's not get crazy, 'cause Captain Tape,
1:03:36SPEAKERpretty useful.
1:03:37SPEAKER- It'll probably come in handy for something else,
1:03:39SPEAKERbut hopefully not for this.
1:03:40SPEAKER- Let's see, so I don't have any big projects.
1:03:43SPEAKERThe Linux thing has eaten a lot of my time lately.
1:03:45SPEAKERI talked about the thermistor on the radiator
1:03:47SPEAKERto get BIOS temperatures for the,
1:03:50SPEAKERas close to BIOS temperatures for the liquid as you can get.
1:03:53SPEAKERIf anybody knows of an AIO that gives you
1:03:56SPEAKERactual liquid temperatures in a way
1:03:57SPEAKERthat the motherboard can understand,
1:03:59SPEAKERI would love to hear about it.
1:04:01SPEAKERSo please let me know.
1:04:01SPEAKER- I wonder if that's the kind of thing
1:04:02SPEAKERthat it won't necessarily become standardized,
1:04:05SPEAKERbut at least we'll start hopping up
1:04:06SPEAKERin vendor specific implementations over the next few years.
1:04:09SPEAKERThat seems so crucial to liquid cooling that it's crazy
1:04:12SPEAKERthat nobody has tried to build that in yet.
1:04:14SPEAKER- Well, I mean, some of them don't even report it
1:04:15SPEAKERin the apps.
1:04:16SPEAKERThat's the thing that shocks me.
1:04:18SPEAKERSo I have an older Corsair cooler
1:04:22SPEAKERthat was on my daughter's machine.
1:04:23SPEAKERIt's just a 120 AIO that just doesn't report
1:04:27SPEAKERtemperatures at all, which is wild.
1:04:31SPEAKEROf course it was also like a $65 AIO probably a decade ago.
1:04:34SPEAKERSo that explains it probably, but still.
1:04:38SPEAKERThe tacking the thermistor on the side of the radiator
1:04:42SPEAKERand then doing the offset
1:04:44SPEAKERand fan control works pretty well.
1:04:47SPEAKERThe other thing I did last week is Willis Lye,
1:04:49SPEAKERwho's the producer over at PC World Nye,
1:04:52SPEAKERdid a build in a rack mount case
1:04:54SPEAKERfor the PC World stream machine.
1:04:56SPEAKERLike they have the machine that runs the podcast
1:04:59SPEAKERand the live builds and all the OBS mixing in there.
1:05:02SPEAKERThey're an OBS house and they have a couple of,
1:05:06SPEAKERI think Blackmagic deck link cards
1:05:08SPEAKERthat are four port HDMI capture cards
1:05:11SPEAKERfor like plugging Canon, I mean,
1:05:14SPEAKERwe use Canon SLRs for studio cameras over there.
1:05:18SPEAKERAnd then they also have some other stuff
1:05:20SPEAKERthat like an Elgato capture card, some other things.
1:05:23SPEAKERAnd it was really fun building in the rack mount case.
1:05:27SPEAKERI'm going to go and tell you,
1:05:28SPEAKERI got a little bit of rack fever 'cause we-
1:05:30SPEAKER- Yeah, that's awesome, man.
1:05:31SPEAKERThey had racks at Micro Center we should mention.
1:05:33SPEAKERAnd I also seeing some racks in person,
1:05:36SPEAKERfelt a bit of the fever go on.
1:05:37SPEAKER- Yeah, so we've had an audio rack for a long time
1:05:42SPEAKERwith like the mixer and the compressors
1:05:44SPEAKERand all the power infrastructure and stuff like that
1:05:46SPEAKERfor that hardware.
1:05:47SPEAKERBut we were having some noise problems
1:05:49SPEAKERand we decided while Adam was in Germany
1:05:53SPEAKERto just tear the whole thing down
1:05:54SPEAKERand move all the audio stuff to one side
1:05:56SPEAKERof the producer desk and all of the computer
1:05:58SPEAKERand networking and everything else
1:06:00SPEAKERto the other side of the producer's desk.
1:06:02SPEAKERAnd we're putting a rack in for all the computer stuff,
1:06:07SPEAKERlike power supplies and NASAs and all that stuff.
1:06:10SPEAKERAnd yeah, it was at the conclusion of that
1:06:14SPEAKERafter we did all the hard work of rewiring,
1:06:15SPEAKERre-bullying all the cables and everything
1:06:17SPEAKERis we built in the Silverstone, I think it's an RM46,
1:06:21SPEAKERwhich is their kind of,
1:06:25SPEAKERit is a rack mount case for a computer
1:06:28SPEAKERthat goes into a server data center rack
1:06:31SPEAKERand/or also this kind of use
1:06:34SPEAKERwhere you have a studio machine
1:06:36SPEAKERand you wanna have something in there.
1:06:39SPEAKER- To be clear, this was not building a new machine,
1:06:40SPEAKERthis was rehoming the guts of the existing.
1:06:43SPEAKER- So we're building a new machine
1:06:45SPEAKERjust 'cause the machine that they're on, the board,
1:06:49SPEAKERwe don't have the TPM 2.0 module
1:06:51SPEAKERto get Windows 11 support on it.
1:06:53SPEAKERIt's like a 5950, it's an older AM4 board though.
1:06:59SPEAKER- Man, that doesn't have a TPM 2.0.
1:07:02SPEAKER- It's weird, it's entirely possible we can flip it on,
1:07:04SPEAKERbut basically we can get a less hot,
1:07:08SPEAKERmore core newer Intel machine.
1:07:11SPEAKER- There's a lot of spare hardware in that office.
1:07:13SPEAKER- Yeah, hardware is never a problem there.
1:07:17SPEAKERAnd if we're gonna go to the effort
1:07:19SPEAKERof moving stuff into a new case,
1:07:21SPEAKERwe might as well put new hardware in
1:07:22SPEAKERjust so we reset the clock
1:07:24SPEAKERon when that hardware is gonna conk out, right?
1:07:26SPEAKER- What's the CPU in the new build?
1:07:28SPEAKER- I think we did it, I think we used a 285 or 265K,
1:07:31SPEAKERI can't remember, one of the Air Lake processors
1:07:35SPEAKERand 32 gigs of RAM.
1:07:39SPEAKERIt doesn't need to be a particularly beefy machine,
1:07:40SPEAKERit runs OBS with like four inputs
1:07:43SPEAKERand we run Zoom on a separate device.
1:07:48SPEAKERSo anyway, we built in the rack mount machine.
1:07:54SPEAKERThe way this rack mount machine is set up is,
1:07:57SPEAKERit's like a pizza box, it's a normal,
1:08:00SPEAKERit's an old school 90s looking shape,
1:08:03SPEAKERbut on one side, what would normally be the back
1:08:07SPEAKERis actually the front, because on a rack mount
1:08:09SPEAKERyou want all the cables to be accessible
1:08:11SPEAKERfrom the side that you have access to, right?
1:08:14SPEAKERThe side that the rack goes in.
1:08:16SPEAKERAnd then the back has room for a 280 AIO.
1:08:21SPEAKERSo we put in an Arctic cooler freezer three, I think.
1:08:26SPEAKER- That's the Arctic liquid freezer three
1:08:29SPEAKERis what I was, for the five minutes that I was like,
1:08:31SPEAKERI should get an AIO, that's what I was looking at,
1:08:33SPEAKER'cause like AmbersNexus said, that's the one right now.
1:08:36SPEAKER- So it's pretty nice, it requires a--
1:08:40SPEAKER- Contact frame.
1:08:41SPEAKER- A contact frame, which I don't like.
1:08:43SPEAKER- That's exactly what stopped me.
1:08:44SPEAKERI think that's only true on Intel,
1:08:46SPEAKERI believe on AM3 it'll use the standard mounting hardware.
1:08:49SPEAKER- Yeah, so I've used that exact cooler on an AM5,
1:08:54SPEAKERZen 5, AM4 machine, AM5.
1:08:57SPEAKERI'm completely--
1:08:58SPEAKER- God, now I'm blanking.
1:08:59SPEAKER- Is this my toast in here?
1:09:00SPEAKER- Fucking, no, I'm gonna blame AMD for this
1:09:03SPEAKERbecause the difference in numbering
1:09:06SPEAKERbetween their CPU architecture, their CPU sockets.
1:09:10SPEAKER- Yeah, it's AM5.
1:09:12SPEAKER- It's like, they've been on Zen 3, AM4, AM5.
1:09:15SPEAKERI feel like they've been all over the place
1:09:16SPEAKERon numbering in a way that's hard to keep up with.
1:09:19SPEAKER- So I've used it on an AM5 machine before and it's fine.
1:09:23SPEAKERYou just, you basically take out the,
1:09:26SPEAKERyou leave the frame that holds the CPU in place,
1:09:28SPEAKERbut you take out the two side mount holes
1:09:31SPEAKERand you put these side things.
1:09:32SPEAKERIt's a little bit of a hassle, but it's not bad.
1:09:34SPEAKERThe contact frame sucks.
1:09:35SPEAKER- I don't love that at all.
1:09:37SPEAKERAlthough that was, I thought the contact frame
1:09:39SPEAKERwas just for 13th and 14th gen.
1:09:41SPEAKERIs it also for Aero Lake?
1:09:43SPEAKER- So Aero Lake, same, like it's different socket,
1:09:45SPEAKERbut it's same physical connector,
1:09:47SPEAKERthe same way that AM4 and AM5 are the same physical
1:09:49SPEAKERconnector.
1:09:49SPEAKER- So they still require you to use that contact frame.
1:09:51SPEAKER- There's no way to screw it in otherwise.
1:09:53SPEAKER- That might be a deal breaker.
1:09:54SPEAKERI mean, maybe they've accommodated the pressure
1:09:59SPEAKERrequirements of the CPU.
1:10:01SPEAKER- It's still scary as hell.
1:10:03SPEAKER- Yeah, because, so I've done,
1:10:04SPEAKERI've replaced contact frames on two Intel builds,
1:10:07SPEAKERthis 12600K in my server,
1:10:08SPEAKERand then the 14900K in my desktop.
1:10:11SPEAKERServer was fine.
1:10:12SPEAKERI've done it on two boards and I never had an issue with it.
1:10:15SPEAKERIt took me like, it took me the better part of like two
1:10:17SPEAKERweeks of tinkering with this desktop machine to get the
1:10:19SPEAKERcontact frame stable.
1:10:20SPEAKERLike it was not fun at all.
1:10:22SPEAKER- Let me tell you, when I,
1:10:23SPEAKERwhen I was having the problem with my 13900K and I was
1:10:26SPEAKERtalking to Gordon about it, he,
1:10:28SPEAKERhis first thing was he's still that stupid contact frame on
1:10:31SPEAKERthere. And I was like, yeah, he's like, take that off.
1:10:32SPEAKERAnd then call me back.
1:10:33SPEAKERAnd I was like, I took it off and still was jacked up,
1:10:35SPEAKERbut it's just a,
1:10:36SPEAKERit's just one more thing to break in a place that you,
1:10:38SPEAKERlike the benefit at the level of performance I care about is
1:10:42SPEAKERnet nil, basically.
1:10:44SPEAKER- Yeah. I just, I mean,
1:10:45SPEAKERI hated the idea of the CPU warping over time,
1:10:47SPEAKERbut also by the time you, by the time it's really warped,
1:10:51SPEAKERyou're probably going to be upgrading anyway.
1:10:52SPEAKERI don't know if it was actually necessary,
1:10:54SPEAKERbut it sounds like the good news.
1:10:55SPEAKERIt sounds like that they fixed the problem with their lake
1:10:58SPEAKERgeneration. So hopefully this will not be a thing going
1:11:00SPEAKERforward.
1:11:01SPEAKER- I hope so. Yeah.
1:11:03SPEAKERBut anyway, so yeah, like putting that machine together,
1:11:07SPEAKERputting the, the two, the 280 AIO in the back,
1:11:11SPEAKERexhausting, pushing air through. It's really quiet.
1:11:16SPEAKERIt's a really nice little machine.
1:11:18SPEAKERIt's funny because it's a server machine.
1:11:20SPEAKERSo it has things like intrusion.
1:11:23SPEAKERIt has an intrusion sensor.
1:11:25SPEAKERSo I didn't have to,
1:11:27SPEAKERbut I plugged it in the motherboard because it has a port.
1:11:28SPEAKERAnd I was like, oh,
1:11:29SPEAKERwe're going to know when somebody opens the case on this
1:11:30SPEAKERbad boy.
1:11:33SPEAKERWe did the build live on the PC world channel.
1:11:35SPEAKERAnd there's a couple other things that are kind of cool.
1:11:38SPEAKERIt has the option of running the power supply in the front.
1:11:41SPEAKERSo you can just jam the power connector into that side,
1:11:44SPEAKERor you can put out the back if you're doing audio stuff.
1:11:46SPEAKERSo that power cable is away from away from anything that's
1:11:48SPEAKERgoing to make noise.
1:11:50SPEAKERAnd like there was an option to put an external drive cage
1:11:54SPEAKERin there, but since we store everything on the NAS,
1:11:56SPEAKERand it goes across the fast network to it, we didn't,
1:11:58SPEAKERwe didn't bother.
1:11:59SPEAKER- And that's cool.
1:12:00SPEAKER- Yeah. It was fun.
1:12:01SPEAKERThe one thing that I learned,
1:12:04SPEAKERwhich was a bummer because we got the,
1:12:06SPEAKERthe slideable rails for it. And I was like,
1:12:08SPEAKERthis is seems a little hinky because like they pull out,
1:12:12SPEAKERit's 600 millimeter rails basically,
1:12:15SPEAKERbut it's the rails are built for data center depth racks,
1:12:19SPEAKERnot home or like studio depth racks.
1:12:23SPEAKERSo I think our rack is like 480 millimeters deep connected
1:12:28SPEAKERfront rail to back rail where the rails that are,
1:12:32SPEAKERthat go with this kind of case that let you slide it out and
1:12:34SPEAKERwork on it are almost all 600 millimeters.
1:12:39SPEAKERSo they expect a deeper thing that's actually physically
1:12:42SPEAKERbolted onto the floor. So it won't tip anyway.
1:12:46SPEAKERSo we didn't get to use the slideable rails,
1:12:47SPEAKERwhich is a bummer.
1:12:48SPEAKER- I've never worked with rack stuff before,
1:12:50SPEAKERbut I always just assumed it was like super standardized,
1:12:52SPEAKERbut the more I hear about it, the more it sounds like, no,
1:12:55SPEAKERin fact, there are a million different sizing standards and
1:12:58SPEAKER- And whether it's square holes or round holes and M4 and
1:13:02SPEAKER- Five or M6 bolts and yeah, just like everything else in
1:13:05SPEAKERcomputers,
1:13:06SPEAKERwhat should be standardized is actually prone to conflicting
1:13:10SPEAKERin a thousand different ways.
1:13:11SPEAKER- Yep. Nothing standard.
1:13:12SPEAKER- Yeah, that's still, I like when I,
1:13:14SPEAKERwhen I rebuilt my server on this 12600K a couple of years
1:13:17SPEAKERago, I, I bought the,
1:13:19SPEAKERI moved to the Noctua tower cooler that is specifically made
1:13:22SPEAKERfor 4G rack cases,
1:13:24SPEAKERjust anticipating that hopefully I will move that the guts of
1:13:28SPEAKERthat machine into a rack case.
1:13:30SPEAKER- Well, so we built, we bought an 18, the,
1:13:34SPEAKERthe rack we bought was I think 18 or 24 U I can't remember.
1:13:37SPEAKERSo, and there's going to be more than enough room for all the
1:13:41SPEAKERstuff that's in there.
1:13:42SPEAKERI could really easily move my entire stack from the garage
1:13:46SPEAKERout there into a, into like a U or 10 U or something like
1:13:50SPEAKERthat.
1:13:50SPEAKER- Yeah. I mean, looking at those,
1:13:51SPEAKERthose were kind of like knee high racks at Micro Center.
1:13:54SPEAKERThey were, I don't remember the U's on them.
1:13:57SPEAKERThey were like 20 or something.
1:13:59SPEAKER- Well, so the 18 U works out to be about four feet tall,
1:14:01SPEAKERI think with the wheels on it, with the casters on it.
1:14:04SPEAKER- I think that's about the size of the ones at Micro Center.
1:14:06SPEAKERLike I know I would never need a 42 U there's just something
1:14:08SPEAKERcool about having it be taller than you.
1:14:11SPEAKER- Well, so the problem with that though,
1:14:12SPEAKERis that if you actually do fill that up,
1:14:14SPEAKERthen you have your weight load on the floor for your house
1:14:18SPEAKERis a problem.
1:14:18SPEAKER- Well, I mean, I guess,
1:14:20SPEAKERI guess it depends on what kind of house I end up in.
1:14:22SPEAKERI'm always thinking in terms of my parents' house where the
1:14:24SPEAKERbasement floor is just cement.
1:14:26SPEAKER- There you go.
1:14:27SPEAKER- Not an issue.
1:14:28SPEAKER- No, the cement floor, totally fine.
1:14:32SPEAKERAnd then the last thing is I, I did,
1:14:34SPEAKERI ended up setting up the new CRT with S video and I did
1:14:40SPEAKERsome, some tweaks.
1:14:42SPEAKERI set up the, the, on the mister,
1:14:45SPEAKERI set up the super attract mode mod script,
1:14:49SPEAKERwhich is really fun.
1:14:50SPEAKERIt just, you,
1:14:51SPEAKERyou tell it which course you want it to pull from.
1:14:53SPEAKERAnd then it just runs like five or 10 minutes of like the
1:14:57SPEAKERattract mode on a game.
1:14:58SPEAKERAnd they've kind of filtered out attract like games that
1:15:01SPEAKERhave decent attract modes.
1:15:02SPEAKER- Oh, that's okay.
1:15:03SPEAKERI should look into that.
1:15:04SPEAKERThat sounds fun.
1:15:05SPEAKER- It's pretty good.
1:15:06SPEAKERLike the neat thing about it is if you pick it up and start
1:15:09SPEAKERlike playing the game, then it stopped.
1:15:11SPEAKERIt pauses the script until it goes idle again,
1:15:13SPEAKERuntil the machine goes idle again for a few minutes.
1:15:15SPEAKERSo it's like,
1:15:16SPEAKERI have a screensaver with all of my childhood consoles on it,
1:15:18SPEAKERwhich I, I quite like.
1:15:20SPEAKER- I should look into that.
1:15:21SPEAKERThat sounds extremely cool.
1:15:23SPEAKER- I also Brad started playing Zelda 2,
1:15:26SPEAKERthe adventure of link again, which feeds you.
1:15:30SPEAKERI'm going to go and tell you,
1:15:32SPEAKERI did not understand that game as a child.
1:15:36SPEAKERI did not understand how an RPG worked and then they had put
1:15:40SPEAKERRPG elements in there.
1:15:42SPEAKERI also think that somebody told me on blue sky that the U S
1:15:48SPEAKERversion didn't actually let you choose where to apply the
1:15:51SPEAKERupgrades as you earned them.
1:15:52SPEAKER- Oh, that's not true.
1:15:54SPEAKER- That's what I thought.
1:15:55SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:15:55SPEAKER- Cause you could pick whether you were going to add health
1:15:57SPEAKERor damage or magic, right?
1:15:59SPEAKER- A hundred percent.
1:16:00SPEAKER- Yeah. But I didn't, I,
1:16:01SPEAKERI guarantee you I did not understand how that system worked
1:16:04SPEAKERas a kid cause I'd played like dragon warrior,
1:16:07SPEAKERbut it was presented just differently enough that like my,
1:16:09SPEAKERit didn't make sense to me.
1:16:11SPEAKERThat game's better than I expected it to be.
1:16:13SPEAKERAnd it's great with save states.
1:16:14SPEAKER- So it was old.
1:16:15SPEAKEROkay. Yes. That would help tremendously.
1:16:16SPEAKERZelda 2 rules, but it is brutally hard.
1:16:18SPEAKERSo save states are kind of a big deal there.
1:16:22SPEAKER- Yeah. Anytime I walk into a room that looks scary,
1:16:23SPEAKERI hit the save state button and just,
1:16:25SPEAKERjust get ready to cheese the hell out of it.
1:16:27SPEAKER- That is the way to be in 2025.
1:16:29SPEAKER- Yeah. It's pretty good.
1:16:30SPEAKERBut that CRT looks gorgeous.
1:16:32SPEAKERYou, you screwed up by not buying it when you did.
1:16:34SPEAKER- Would you pay 50 bucks for it?
1:16:35SPEAKER- 50 bucks.
1:16:36SPEAKER- God damn. I mean, I,
1:16:38SPEAKERI did not have room for it in here to be clear.
1:16:40SPEAKERI have a, I mean, I have a nice,
1:16:42SPEAKERI have a nice 14 inch CRT in here already.
1:16:45SPEAKERLike I did not need another one.
1:16:47SPEAKER- Well, the nice thing about it is it's stereo.
1:16:49SPEAKER- I'm happy to be happy with what I have.
1:16:51SPEAKER- Yeah. So I have stereo now cause my old TV
1:16:53SPEAKERwas definitely not stereo.
1:16:54SPEAKER- Did it have a remote? I didn't see a remote with it.
1:16:56SPEAKER- It did not have a remote,
1:16:57SPEAKERbut it has buttons on the front, so I don't care.
1:16:59SPEAKER- Okay.
1:17:00SPEAKER- Yeah. It has all the buttons you need to control everything.
1:17:02SPEAKER- So no, no RGB mod, huh?
1:17:04SPEAKER- I mean, maybe at some point,
1:17:05SPEAKERbut like I'm pretty happy with the, this video looks.
1:17:08SPEAKER- Yeah. This video is fantastic.
1:17:10SPEAKERLike I, I probably also would not bother if I were you.
1:17:13SPEAKERThe Trinitron that's from that generation that I have back
1:17:16SPEAKERat my parents' house is composite only.
1:17:18SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:17:19SPEAKER- And their RGB is perhaps a bit more essential.
1:17:23SPEAKER- So I, I do have a confession to make.
1:17:26SPEAKERI bought a new Saturn as, you know,
1:17:30SPEAKERI have that Mr. Addon's board
1:17:32SPEAKERwith the Saturn analog video out port.
1:17:37SPEAKERAnd that Saturn connector is so fucking hard
1:17:39SPEAKERto get in the right way, like notoriously.
1:17:42SPEAKERCause it looks, it's not really keyed at all.
1:17:45SPEAKERYou have to just line it up.
1:17:46SPEAKERAnd I fucking immediately broke off one of the pins.
1:17:49SPEAKER- Right.
1:17:50SPEAKER- When I was putting it in on the cable or the board?
1:17:54SPEAKER- The cable, the board's female.
1:17:56SPEAKERSo the board's fine.
1:17:58SPEAKERThe cable, I mean, it's like a $12 cable from Amazon.
1:18:00SPEAKERSo I don't really care that much.
1:18:02SPEAKERI plugged it in. It worked.
1:18:04SPEAKER- Oh, so with, with the broken pin?
1:18:06SPEAKER- Yeah. So it has like,
1:18:08SPEAKERit's like 15 pins or something in there.
1:18:10SPEAKERAnd some of them apparently are for like,
1:18:12SPEAKERyou can do RGB out of there too, if you want.
1:18:15SPEAKERSo I guess I lucked out and got one of the ones
1:18:17SPEAKERthat's not RGB it's yeah.
1:18:19SPEAKERAnyway.
1:18:20SPEAKER- That's how it works.
1:18:21SPEAKER- Yeah. Mistakes are made.
1:18:22SPEAKER- I feel like that's the theme of this entire episode
1:18:23SPEAKERis hey, if it works.
1:18:25SPEAKER- I mean, look, maybe that's the theme
1:18:28SPEAKERof computing in 2025.
1:18:31SPEAKER- That might be just to be the theme of everything.
1:18:33SPEAKERWhatever works.
1:18:34SPEAKER- Yeah. I love it when it works.
1:18:35SPEAKERI love things that work.
1:18:37SPEAKERWorking is great.
1:18:38SPEAKERI also bought, we didn't talk about the book I bought
1:18:40SPEAKERat the, at the, at the flea market.
1:18:43SPEAKER- Oh yes. I assume that's some upcoming PC world content.
1:18:46SPEAKER- I think I'm going to take it in and do some PC world videos.
1:18:48SPEAKER- Yeah. It's it's the second edition of assembling
1:18:51SPEAKERand troubleshooting microcomputers.
1:18:53SPEAKERAnd the date on the publication page is 1991
1:18:56SPEAKERwhich means it predates ATX.
1:18:58SPEAKER- Oh, did I, do I remember the term microcomputer?
1:19:03SPEAKERLike connections are being made in my brain right now
1:19:05SPEAKERbecause I've been thinking about mini computers
1:19:07SPEAKERa bit recently.
1:19:08SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:19:09SPEAKER- Which, which are the kind of refrigerator sized era,
1:19:11SPEAKERyou know, the PDP 11 and that kind of thing.
1:19:13SPEAKER- Yeah. I used a Wang when I worked in Congress
1:19:16SPEAKERon Capitol Hill.
1:19:17SPEAKER- Right. So it was the term microcomputer actually
1:19:19SPEAKERin wide usage for the desktop home personal computer
1:19:22SPEAKERfor a long time.
1:19:23SPEAKERI had completely forgotten that.
1:19:24SPEAKER- Yeah. Cause it's, it's the next size down
1:19:26SPEAKERfrom a mini computer.
1:19:27SPEAKER- Right. That's cool.
1:19:28SPEAKER- Yeah. So anyway, it, but it has a bunch of like
1:19:31SPEAKERhere's how to fix your IBM XT and other clones stuff
1:19:36SPEAKERwhich is kind of rad.
1:19:38SPEAKER- That's neat.
1:19:39SPEAKER- Anyway, on that note, I guess it's going to do it
1:19:41SPEAKERfor us this week.
1:19:42SPEAKER- Yeah. That was a smorgasbord of random computer stuff.
1:19:45SPEAKERHopefully it was enjoyable.
1:19:47SPEAKER- Yeah. Look, the fan, the fan thing,
1:19:50SPEAKERlike the thing that you found out about the Noctua fans
1:19:52SPEAKERis something it's why I didn't like those tower coolers
1:19:54SPEAKERfor a long time.
1:19:55SPEAKER- Yeah. And like clearly they woke up to the same issue
1:19:57SPEAKERbecause like I said, there's, there's a,
1:19:59SPEAKERthe second gen version of that D 15 that I have
1:20:01SPEAKERthat just came out last year.
1:20:02SPEAKERAnd it addresses this issue. Like I said, cause now they are,
1:20:05SPEAKERnow they are factory tuning the fans to not be too close
1:20:09SPEAKERtogether in speed to get around that issue.
1:20:10SPEAKERBut I am very happy.
1:20:12SPEAKERI landed on that page from Noctua to solve that issue.
1:20:14SPEAKERI'm very happy that Seasonic have very explicit documentation
1:20:17SPEAKERup for like the pin out of my power supply.
1:20:20SPEAKERThey also, because I've had like four or maybe five
1:20:23SPEAKERSeasonic power supplies between here and working on machines
1:20:26SPEAKERat work, I've just got like a pile of old power supply
1:20:30SPEAKERcables.
1:20:31SPEAKERAnd it's very nice that they actually put up a giant chart
1:20:33SPEAKERthat says here are all the cables that are compatible with
1:20:35SPEAKEReach power supply.
1:20:36SPEAKER- See, I always keep the power supply cables in the bag.
1:20:40SPEAKERAnd then I put a piece of paper and then it says which power
1:20:42SPEAKERsupply they go with.
1:20:43SPEAKERSo I do that now for the last couple that I've owned,
1:20:45SPEAKERbut I had a bunch of older cables as well.
1:20:47SPEAKERAnyway, it's just, it's nice to very explicitly be able to
1:20:49SPEAKERconfirm, yes, this cable will work with this power supply
1:20:52SPEAKERand not fry the component, but like just in both cases,
1:20:55SPEAKERlike, and again, this is, this is not sponsored at all.
1:20:58SPEAKERI am purely a customer of these two companies,
1:21:00SPEAKERbut like it's just such a nice heartwarming feeling when they
1:21:03SPEAKERput up the information you need to solve problems and like,
1:21:06SPEAKERdon't leave you in the dark with poor or no documentation
1:21:09SPEAKERfor things.
1:21:10SPEAKER- I was going to say I buy Corsair power supplies usually.
1:21:13SPEAKERAnd I was like for a long time, if you bought,
1:21:18SPEAKERif you bought inside the same product line,
1:21:20SPEAKERthe modular cables were compatible with each other.
1:21:24SPEAKERAnd then they stopped doing that at some point.
1:21:27SPEAKER- That sucks.
1:21:27SPEAKER- And yeah, but at least they have HX only,
1:21:32SPEAKERlike they have the line on them now that says,
1:21:34SPEAKERthis is only good with this line.
1:21:36SPEAKERI mean, I was gonna say the other thing about your fan thing
1:21:38SPEAKERis it's the argument in favor of using the fans that come
1:21:42SPEAKERwith things.
1:21:44SPEAKERI, I just learned about the difference between static
1:21:46SPEAKERpressure and airflow fans a few months ago.
1:21:50SPEAKERStatic pressure fans usually come with AIOs.
1:21:52SPEAKERThey're usually more blades and they're, they move less air,
1:21:55SPEAKERbut they apply more pressure to push,
1:21:56SPEAKERforce the air through the radiators.
1:21:58SPEAKER- Yeah. I think on the, not, I mean,
1:22:00SPEAKERnot to make everything knock away.
1:22:01SPEAKERIt's just mostly what I buy.
1:22:02SPEAKERSo that's what I'm familiar with.
1:22:03SPEAKERI think that's like the split between like the brown and the
1:22:06SPEAKERgray fans, I want to say on their side,
1:22:09SPEAKERlike some of them are static pressure and some are airflow.
1:22:13SPEAKER- That I don't, I don't know about, but, but yeah,
1:22:15SPEAKERlike I used on my fractal case,
1:22:17SPEAKERthe fractal fans that came with the case with my AIOs,
1:22:21SPEAKER'cause I liked the way they looked.
1:22:22SPEAKERAnd I, when I switched to static pressure fans for the same
1:22:25SPEAKERexact thing, I was blown away at the difference in cooling.
1:22:28SPEAKERI was getting on the liquid.
1:22:30SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:22:30SPEAKER- So anyway, yeah, sometimes like theoretically,
1:22:35SPEAKERyou should be able to use the splitter on the fans.
1:22:38SPEAKERIf you buy that same Noctua cooler now, and it sounds fine,
1:22:41SPEAKERbecause they've offset the speeds on those fans.
1:22:44SPEAKERAnyway, that'll do it for us this month, a week rather.
1:22:47SPEAKERThanks. Thanks everybody for listening.
1:22:49SPEAKERAs always Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod is a listener
1:22:51SPEAKERsupported show. We wouldn't be here without you all.
1:22:53SPEAKERSo if you would like to learn how to support the show,
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1:23:01SPEAKERwhere for five bucks a month to get access to the discord,
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1:23:05SPEAKERYou can talk to us about your fans.
1:23:07SPEAKERYou can find out about Brad's weird jump-started power
1:23:11SPEAKERsupply.
1:23:12SPEAKER- I should put these pictures in the show notes or maybe
1:23:14SPEAKERjust on the discord. I don't know.
1:23:16SPEAKERI don't know a good way to host images in the show notes,
1:23:19SPEAKERlike that probably would break some podcast clients unless I
1:23:23SPEAKERjust put hard links to some hosting service.
1:23:26SPEAKER- Yeah. It's like,
1:23:27SPEAKERthis is something I would have put on the imager for a long
1:23:29SPEAKERtime and then do a link out to that. But anyway, yeah.
1:23:34SPEAKER- So for five bucks, you get access to the monthly patron,
1:23:37SPEAKERexclusive episode. You get access to the discord.
1:23:40SPEAKERIt's a lovely community full of people who are into very
1:23:42SPEAKERmuch the same things that we talk about here every week.
1:23:45SPEAKER- Sure.
1:23:47SPEAKER- And if you subscribe for the executive producer tier,
1:23:50SPEAKERthen we give you a shout out every week, including,
1:23:53SPEAKERjust like we're about to do right now.
1:23:54SPEAKERSo thanks to Jason Lee, In Felicitous Rips, Andrew Slosky,
1:24:00SPEAKERJordan Lippett, Bunny Money, Twinkle Twinkie, David Allen,
1:24:04SPEAKERJames Kamik, and Pantheon,
1:24:06SPEAKERmakers of the HS3 high-speed 3D printer.
1:24:08SPEAKERThank you also so much.
1:24:09SPEAKER- Yes. Thank you.
1:24:10SPEAKER- And that will do it for us this week.
1:24:12SPEAKERWe'll be back next week with another edition of the tech pod
1:24:15SPEAKERas always please consider the environment before printing
1:24:18SPEAKERthis podcast.