00:00SPEAKERokay guys i did something stupid shameful indeed no i mean look it's it's tree pollen season here in
00:06SPEAKERnorthern california and i don't know about you but i get a little sneezy oh yeah and earlier this
00:12SPEAKERweek i was sneezing so so hard that i bit my tongue harder than i have ever bit my tongue before
00:19SPEAKERe and i thought i might have to go get stitches because it was like bleeding for it like sorry
00:26SPEAKERthis is i guess content warning uh it was it went for a long time and it hurt a lot and it still is
00:33SPEAKERa little bit weird and swollen and herdy so my voice sounds weird where i sound like i have a
00:36SPEAKERlittle bit of a lisp now you know why i'm trying to imagine the mechanics of that when you sneeze
00:42SPEAKERlike the what would it take for your tongue to be directly beneath your teeth also do your teeth
00:46SPEAKERreally like bite down when you sneeze so my mouth is small yeah let's talk about the size of your
00:52SPEAKERmouth will yeah my mouth is small my tongue is large and and beefy and uh when i got in there
00:58SPEAKERit just clipped it on the back edge like the back side oh i was envisioning like the tip of your
01:03SPEAKERtongue getting no the tip is caught between your front teeth tips totally fine the back
01:08SPEAKERback left side is a nightmare it's real bad you got into the meat of it with like your molars
01:13SPEAKERyou go ahead and tell yeah i clipped it with a molar real good and i was like wow that really
01:17SPEAKERhurt and then uh it got worse progressively the more i talked throughout the day i did the next
01:22SPEAKERlater podcast after doing this in the morning it wasn't too bad when i started by the end i was
01:25SPEAKERlike oh i might have made a mistake that's crazy because you were yeah i was on that podcast with
01:29SPEAKERyou and i noticed no difference at all but now now you know well it's it's always the day after
01:34SPEAKERright it's not the day of the injury it's like the day after or the day after that when it gets really
01:37SPEAKERbad but do people still believe that like sneezing is like a miniature orgasm i mean look wasn't that
01:45SPEAKERthere's a lot of pain involved in high school that's like somebody's like oh did you know a
01:50SPEAKERsneeze is like a miniature orgasm right i was i think that person doesn't has never experienced
01:54SPEAKERone or the other so yeah so it seems to be getting better but this is the first time i've done any
02:00SPEAKERappreciable talking since that next lander episode and uh i've been i've been going to tell you i'm
02:06SPEAKERnever going to sign up to get my tongue pierced after this because damn son this is not what you
02:12SPEAKERwant in your mouthful region what do you want your mouthful region no i'm good we can stop there
02:42SPEAKERso welcome to brad and will made a tech pod i'm will i'm brad and i'm adam and yeah oh yeah
02:52SPEAKERhe doesn't wait for the intro here he is oh he's just he's just family now you know he can he just
02:57SPEAKERhe just enters himself now yeah adam patrick murray of pc world and the full nerd fame is
03:02SPEAKERjoining us today because we are talking about something that he is something of a specialist in
03:07SPEAKERthat's right also is this is this a first i was on the full nerd this week and now adam is on
03:12SPEAKERthe tech pod this week all in the same week that's it's not a full rotation right yeah yeah because
03:18SPEAKERi was on nextlander this week so that's right you were it's just i mean this is the destiny of every
03:22SPEAKERpodcast host is to eventually appear on every podcast they come in contact with we're orbiting
03:28SPEAKERa podcast singularity right now um yeah so we're talking about handhelds because switch switch two
03:34SPEAKERwas announced uh brad and i and vinny talked about that on the tech on the nextlander show this week
03:38SPEAKERum we probably won't talk too much about the switch stuff on the full nerd next week would
03:42SPEAKERbe my guess maybe a little bit but we'll see yeah there is an nvidia chip in there it's a computer
03:48SPEAKERthat's true that's true uh thousands of engineer years of effort went into that thing from nvidia
03:53SPEAKERso clearly serious hardware um but yeah we're going to talk about switch stuff we're going to
03:58SPEAKERtalk about kind of the overall state of the handheld union because there's stuff happening
04:02SPEAKERthere's rumors on the xbox side and then the steam deck uh there's all sorts of weird stuff happening
04:07SPEAKERwith steam os so we'll talk about that and then like what's going on with windows and and non
04:12SPEAKERwindows pc handhelds so anyway i'm excited i'm excited thanks for letting me be here you're you're
04:19SPEAKERlike probably the handheld expert of everyone i know right i think you i mean i know will does
04:24SPEAKERsome testing too now but i feel like you probably get your hands on more of these things and anybody
04:28SPEAKERelse i know too many through your office yeah i have too many i don't know it's a big pile of them
04:34SPEAKERat the office and they're they're just frankly i guess the fact that there are too many of them
04:38SPEAKERnow is kind of why we're doing this episode to a large degree i mean like everybody credits the
04:42SPEAKERsteam deck for creating this new sort of market market segment or cottage industry or whatever
04:46SPEAKERyou want to call it but i really i feel like the switch one gets kind of short shrift in that
04:51SPEAKERconversation because really it was the switch right i mean it's not it doesn't exist in the
04:55SPEAKERpc space nintendo is in its own silo but there is no steam deck without a switch one right and and
05:01SPEAKERit's like wildly popular right i mean nintendo always traditionally had a home console and a
05:07SPEAKERportable console and i've always been a huge fan of the portable consoles my first console i owned
05:13SPEAKERuh was the the game boy so i have a big affinity for handhelds and yeah the switch was the first
05:19SPEAKERtime they were like hey what if what if it was both what if it was a handheld and a home console
05:25SPEAKERin one and people were like that's crazy you can't do that and then they did it and then yeah i feel
05:30SPEAKERlike then the pc side was like oh well hold my beer we can do it better yeah i wouldn't surprise
05:36SPEAKERme if valve looked at the success of stuff like hades and uh short hike and all those kinds of
05:42SPEAKERgames like the the kind of the kind of wildly successful blower blower um uh like lower hardware
05:51SPEAKERrequirement indie games and was like and and saw literally i think it was either hades or dead cells
05:59SPEAKERyou could sync your steam progress across to the switch version by putting in a special code and
06:03SPEAKERit would use their little back end thing so like it was like your portable steam version
06:09SPEAKERand that was like hey we should get some of that money man and they did
06:12SPEAKERyeah oh yeah i guess i do like the the the hybrid um the hybrid gimmick is like way de-emphasized
06:19SPEAKERfor the steam deck right like i know they do sell a doc you can get third-party docs like you can
06:22SPEAKERplay it on a tv but like i feel like i feel like play your steam deck on a tv is not part of the
06:27SPEAKERsteam deck story the way that feature is part of the switch story you know so like maybe that's why
06:32SPEAKERthe steam deck gets talked about in a slightly different way than the switch to some extent
06:36SPEAKERi would say it's also not as seamless right with the switch the whole thing is just like you slide
06:41SPEAKERit into that dock and everyone has the same dock and then you slide off the the controllers and
06:47SPEAKERyou're off to the races i feel like for a steam deck or even any of the other windows based ones
06:52SPEAKERit just takes a little bit more setup and a little more finicky i guess yeah well and
07:00SPEAKERyou know to that point like the steam deck just got hdmi cc like last fall last winter like it's
07:06SPEAKERit's it's new like so it couldn't it couldn't automatically turn on your tv for you when you
07:11SPEAKERplugged it in until very recently stuff like that um when you plug in an external controller you
07:16SPEAKERcan't wake it up with that or i guess you can now but you couldn't until very recently for that
07:20SPEAKEReither so um so yeah it's not it's not as much of a consumer device as like i don't think there's
07:28SPEAKERmulti-user mode on the steam deck yet is there can you have more than one account on the steam deck
07:33SPEAKERoh i don't think you can you're right yeah yeah so there's that's an extra weird omission for
07:40SPEAKERa device that runs linux well you can put multiple user accounts on the system level but you'd have
07:46SPEAKERto shell out to the desktop and log out and log back in to get to that probably no even i'm not
07:51SPEAKERcrazy enough to do that i and i would say for the handheld stuff i was thinking about this as well
07:58SPEAKERit's like when i dock my switch and i played on the tv sure it has the same graphical power as
08:04SPEAKERhandheld mode but there i'm usually accepting of it but i usually personally don't dock my steam
08:12SPEAKERdeck i would much rather boot up my gaming pc for a better experience so like i don't know it's it's
08:19SPEAKERweird i in the times that i would have wanted to like dock it the idea of having an egpu has been
08:27SPEAKERlike okay this is cool but that's a whole separate road we don't need to go down um and and just
08:32SPEAKERbefore you write the angry letters in you can do multiple accounts on one steam deck now that is
08:37SPEAKERthe thing that they added last january so okay um yeah you click on the profile button in the top
08:43SPEAKERright corner and it lets you log in as somebody else yeah nice okay so so switch to yeah like we
08:50SPEAKERcan finally stop following rumors yes because like the rumors all basically turned out to be true i
08:55SPEAKERthink we could have had this exact same conversation two months ago because like all the specs are
08:59SPEAKERexactly what has been said for well probably six months now but now now we've got numbers
09:05SPEAKERyou know yeah like i'm but i'm you know i'm looking at a nintendo.com page with all these
09:09SPEAKERnumbers on them now so they're official i i did go back and look at an article published oh sure
09:14SPEAKERthis november 3rd 2023 by one richard ledbetter over at uh digital foundry big fan of those those
09:22SPEAKERpeople over there and he did a deep dive into the uh the tegra t three no i'm sorry t 239 239
09:31SPEAKERyeah yeah so the processor essentially he was laying out the the specs of that processor
09:38SPEAKERback in 2023 and it does indeed have hdmi 2.1 support at the heart at the chipset level okay
09:47SPEAKERso yeah maybe it's just nintendo not wanting to pay for the actual the rest of the hardware to
09:53SPEAKERoutput it but i i guess we'll see yeah like i found some reddit threads breaking down like the
09:57SPEAKERreal tech display controller that's in the dock apparently i think that came out of some leaked
10:01SPEAKERphotos like people but there's no data sheet out there for that real tech chip so no people aren't
10:05SPEAKERquite sure why i mean i think it's also a money thing maybe you know they're trying to cut costs
10:11SPEAKERwhere they can they think most consumers are on the 4k 60 which i mean it's also again like that
10:17SPEAKERright but like the switch one also just did some weird non-standard stuff right with both the
10:20SPEAKERcharging charging profile and the way that it handled video out so like who knows why nintendo
10:26SPEAKERdoes different anything at a specs level well i will say though i mean if that if that is
10:31SPEAKERsomething if they're doing some sort of weird magic to be able to dock it and seamlessly have
10:36SPEAKERit pop up on a screen and charge at the same time i'm okay taking that sacrifice because i i do think
10:43SPEAKERthat is like super seamless and a really good experience yeah i i guess i'll i've got the since
10:48SPEAKERwe're talking about video output out of the dock i'll just read those specs now just to cover that
10:52SPEAKERpoint um same you know same same dock setup as the original switch maximum of 4k at 60 frames
10:59SPEAKERper second but it will do 120 hertz at 1080p and 1440p so like i think i'm probably okay giving up
11:06SPEAKER4k 120 1440 120 is not bad on a big tv and like no games are going to be coming anywhere close to 4k
11:12SPEAKER120 anyway yeah i mean it's the 120 maybe like i don't understand why they do 120 on the handheld
11:19SPEAKERnot that like it's just such a weird it's a weird like it's a weird separation and it feels kind of
11:25SPEAKERarbitrary in a very nintendo-y way well it's doing 128 1080p so that's the handheld mode and the
11:32SPEAKERscrew you know big screen mode so yeah i'm more confused about why they have a fan in the dock
11:38SPEAKERoh yes because yeah they're like i have actually tried to use uh solutions where like i even
11:44SPEAKERstrapped a peltier cooler on the back of my steam deck to try to wick away some heat but i mean
11:49SPEAKERyou're at that point you're you're trying to dissipate heat through layers of plastic and it
11:54SPEAKERjust it doesn't make sense uh so yeah i saw i saw a lot of reaction to to the fan because they show
12:01SPEAKERthe fan in that stream you know which is like kind of pretty un-nintendo like to show the inners of
12:07SPEAKERthat thing at all but yeah i saw a bunch of people going like oh the dock helps cool your switch but
12:11SPEAKERlike yeah what is the thermal conductivity through the housing of a console is like basically nothing
12:16SPEAKERright so it has to be cooling something in the dock right yeah something in that chipset whether
12:21SPEAKERit charging or maybe that's where some of the upscaling is happening i i'm yeah it just feels
12:28SPEAKERreally weird to have a fan in there and i know there's people worrying about like the the speed
12:35SPEAKERthe size of it how loud it's going to be because that's obviously people don't want to interject
12:42SPEAKERmore noise into their room but i also don't feel like it's going to be
12:46SPEAKERthat intrusive especially if it's at a dock under your tv like yeah yeah i mean i i don't
12:51SPEAKERhear the switch fan at all the switch one fan like even handheld even handheld let alone across the
12:56SPEAKERroom and in the dock mode like so like i i can't imagine a fan and then the dock is going to have
13:01SPEAKERthat much more noise either i'm going to tell you my my launch switch fan got noisy over time i
13:07SPEAKERended up having to replace it because it started making a weird buzzing rattling noise after a
13:11SPEAKERwhile but wait you didn't just buy the old version when it came out you know my wife got the old
13:16SPEAKERversion came out because you know i'm a good husband i didn't give her my old crappy one when
13:21SPEAKERthe good one came out um you're probably right actually like there was they wouldn't need the
13:26SPEAKERtype of upscaling hardware that could do higher than 1080p and a handheld that only does 1080p
13:30SPEAKERright so like maybe you're right that that extra scaling stuff is in the dock because that's the
13:35SPEAKERonly place you would ever actually use it right i i think it's more likely that they're rendering
13:39SPEAKERa higher resolution to be upscaled when you're in 4k mode and it's going to generate more heat
13:45SPEAKERbut but like getting that interface right it's going to be a challenge for them i don't i don't
13:49SPEAKERknow like that's a that's a weird one because i have a lot of questions that can be solved by me
13:54SPEAKERspending about 30 minutes with this and we're not going to know until we get 30 minutes with it so
13:58SPEAKERyeah yeah um you know like the the dock output and the screen are the two things that nintendo
14:04SPEAKERdoes give you specs on like forget forget any actual details about the the nvidia chip but the
14:10SPEAKERscreen itself i was pleasantly surprised by the screen i don't know about you guys but
14:15SPEAKERlike the the the size of the screen had been reported for weeks but not necessarily all the
14:19SPEAKERspecs that they would deliver it's a 7.9 inch screen now versus 6.2 inches on the launch switch
14:26SPEAKERone uh 1080p and six what the oled was what 6.8 i think it's seven six point nine somewhere in the
14:33SPEAKERlike six point eight to seven range so yeah oled switch was kind of halfway between launch switch
14:38SPEAKERand uh and switch two yeah it's the same size glass is the launch switch but the actual usable
14:45SPEAKERscreen area is larger on the oled yeah so this is basically one one point seven inches bigger than
14:50SPEAKERthe launch switch 1080p uh hdr 10 uh and and vrr 120 hertz variable refresh rate so that was
15:00SPEAKERprobably the one i i didn't really expect hdr or 120 hertz like nintendo is just so conservative
15:06SPEAKERabout specs since i don't know like what was the last like gamecube was the last competitive piece
15:13SPEAKERof hardware they put out with its contemporaries you know ever since then yeah they've lagged so
15:17SPEAKERfar behind standards that i would not have expected at hdr or high refresh let alone vrr so like i'm
15:23SPEAKERi'm pretty pleasantly surprised by the screen in that context not necessarily compared to the pc
15:29SPEAKERhandhelds on the market oh and i i was arguing with one will smith uh at gdc that nintendo
15:37SPEAKERdefinitely wasn't going to come out and push any sort of boundaries like that i i yeah i i think
15:43SPEAKERnumber one we are seeing kind of like a new era of nintendo where they are willing to maybe get out
15:49SPEAKERand talk about some things sure i wish they would get out and talk about more but they definitely
15:54SPEAKERtalked about more than i expected to uh and to have like that little mario animation of the
16:00SPEAKER120 hertz you know like way more marios the other or like even the the pixel like the 720p were 1080p
16:08SPEAKERthey had the little white between the pixels on mario's face and i was like oh that that's kind of
16:12SPEAKERcute uh it was it was very much one of those things of like oh that's i wonder how nintendo
16:17SPEAKERthinks of you know very nerdy hardware spec kind of stuff like that number two so the yes i was
16:28SPEAKERi was pleasantly surprised by these seemingly high-end specs for sure i mean other than the
16:33SPEAKERthe fact that it's not oled which doesn't surprise me they i think everyone has it right that they're
16:40SPEAKERready to sell you another one in a couple years and i'm ready to buy one in another couple years
16:44SPEAKERso yeah no one of the hardware sorry to jump in but i read they had a round table at the new york
16:49SPEAKERevent they did for for a lot of press and one of the hardware guys was asked you know why didn't
16:54SPEAKERyou go oled of course he didn't come out and say hey we want to sell you an oled switch 2 in three
16:58SPEAKERyears which i'm sure they do but he also said there have been a lot of advances in lcd's since
17:03SPEAKERwe shipped the switch one so we felt comfortable going back like i wonder what he means by that
17:08SPEAKERlike there couldn't be any kind of like local dimming in a screen this small right or mini led
17:13SPEAKERor something like that does that work at screens of this size i yeah not that i know of so yeah
17:23SPEAKERthe thing the thing that i thought of because i was like to me i thought they were gonna stick
17:29SPEAKERwith 720p the steam deck is at 800p so you know whatever essentially the same kind of thing like
17:36SPEAKERit while it is nice to have higher resolutions on windows handhelds like even me like i i don't
17:43SPEAKERthink you need like i think the bare minimum is 720p 800p that kind of stuff and so them pushing
17:50SPEAKERto 1080p is surprising and then yeah i thought maybe at the outset like a 90 hertz kind of like
17:57SPEAKERthe steam deck oled because i feel like depending on the game you're playing yeah you're probably
18:02SPEAKERnot pushing 120 hertz even at 1080p on a lot of these experiences so that to have all these
18:09SPEAKERthings thrown out there i was like wow that's awesome they're really shooting for the moon
18:12SPEAKERand i was like wait this is nintendo they're probably not shooting for the moon i bet that
18:18SPEAKERwe're finally at some sort of economy of scale for that type of panel where they said hey you know
18:23SPEAKERwhat we look at at 720p lcd uh or we look at you know oled versions and they're like well actually
18:32SPEAKERyou know what the economy of scale doesn't work front on either of those yet but the economy of
18:36SPEAKERscale works here so let's go ahead and do it so i doubt the nintendo people were like yeah we should
18:42SPEAKERreally push for the moon here i bet they were just like okay what's what's going to be the most cost
18:46SPEAKEReffective one that's going to last us for another eight years okay let's do that one yeah yeah i
18:51SPEAKERthink you're almost certainly right because it's a node it's a new likes to make money on their
18:54SPEAKERhardware they don't sell things at a loss or even a break even the the one place that the lcd's have
19:00SPEAKERexceeded oleds in the last few years years is brightness right yeah for sure so we talked about
19:05SPEAKERon nextlander a lot of the oleds in order to get close to the lcd levels of brightness you're
19:09SPEAKERseeing now are like double stacking oled displays so you have two panels and and obviously that adds
19:15SPEAKERto the cost whereas with an lcd you can just put a brighter backlight on and get more juice
19:21SPEAKERi i almost wonder like this is probably a no but i almost wonder if they have shot themselves in the
19:27SPEAKERfoot a little bit with the quality of the screen because when the oled model does come along if
19:32SPEAKERyou've already got a high refresh high resolution hdr screen on your current switch like i think an
19:38SPEAKERoled model will still sell because like oled quote unquote is a is a like prized marketing term these
19:44SPEAKERdays you know what i mean like people i think a lot of people will buy an oled switch to sight
19:47SPEAKERunseen they don't even need to see that it looks better right you're raising your hand like i would
19:52SPEAKERconsider it too but but like like you said like modern lcd's look pretty damn good now so like
19:58SPEAKERi wonder if some people are going to look at this thing in two or three years and be like you know
20:01SPEAKERthis still looks really good i'm just gonna stick with my launch one yeah and actually i guess i
20:06SPEAKERdidn't hear any because like you mentioned there was a an event in new york where people got to get
20:13SPEAKERtheir hands on it yeah brad nobody from nextlander went to that oh that's not why alex was out okay
20:19SPEAKERyeah i so now that i'm thinking about the coverage i didn't hear anybody specifically talk about the
20:25SPEAKERscreen quality and like oh is it as bad as that launch the switch which i mean to be fair it
20:31SPEAKERwasn't as bad i think the steam deck the steam deck launch lcd was even worse than the the nintendo
20:38SPEAKERswitch launch lcd but the oled version was a huge upgrade um but yeah i feel like it's it's it's
20:46SPEAKERprobably good enough like i feel like people probably would have tried to pick that thing
20:50SPEAKERapart if they were there or who knows it was the first time putting their hands on it so maybe
20:55SPEAKERyou just first impression wasn't about that it was about the games or the experience or whatever and
21:00SPEAKERit's not really until we get it home in our hands that we can be like hey you know what this lcd is
21:05SPEAKERit's fine yeah yeah well you know i mean the majority of the games press is focused on
21:10SPEAKERgame content and not uh true definitely not hardware specs or even really like hardware
21:17SPEAKERfrom a more perceptual standpoint i guess i would say you know like even even like the
21:21SPEAKERyou know people kind of talk about look and feel a little bit but like the you know there's a reason
21:25SPEAKERthat the kind of digital foundries of the world have peeled off into this kind of subcategory
21:29SPEAKERof coverage i think so it's i think it was just a lot more mainstream like games focused coverage
21:34SPEAKERcoming out of that first event true well i i i didn't realize till morning this morning when
21:40SPEAKERwe were sitting here looking at the the the notes for this episode that when they talked about vrr
21:48SPEAKERthey're talking about g-sync right yeah i don't know well like i mean this is an immediate product
21:54SPEAKERso like why not like i can't imagine it's going to be free sync or some proprietary thing it's
22:01SPEAKERprobably g-sync right i guess it could just be vrr though right for for for from nintendo's
22:07SPEAKERstandpoint i really probably depends on how much it would have added to the cost i don't know
22:11SPEAKERbecause i mean i know at the like dawn of g-sync it was a lot of extra hardware you needed to run
22:15SPEAKERthat maybe maybe at this point it's cheaper so i totally forgot over on nvidia's blog which they
22:20SPEAKERdo have some real basic stuff they do have a point here that says very variable refresh rate via
22:26SPEAKERnvidia g-sync in handheld mode wow so it is an actual g-sync panel so they don't they don't say
22:33SPEAKERspecifically what level of g-sync because if you don't know there's actually three levels of g-sync
22:38SPEAKERuh g-sync ultimate which requires hardware okay g-sync uh which depends on the panel i believe
22:46SPEAKERit can be hardware or not and then g-sync compatible which that's a lot of cheaper panels
22:52SPEAKERit just means nvidia went through the rigor rigorous testing to say hey you know what this is a
22:57SPEAKERa free sync panel or a vrr panel but they give their stamp of approval
23:01SPEAKERand it's g-sync compatible in this case i bet it's just g-sync compatible i i don't know i mean
23:07SPEAKERi i guess yeah the g-sync the mid-level the one that where most of the monitor the g-sync monitors
23:12SPEAKERlive does require a processor and the ultimate is the one that has the latency stuff for the
23:19SPEAKERfor the reflex um uh the reflex uh uh latency measurement right yeah and i i don't remember in
23:27SPEAKERthis this full article that i mentioned earlier by the by richard uh covering the the t239 uh
23:35SPEAKERgreat number uh i don't remember that him specifying that it had some sort of like
23:44SPEAKERhardware-based g-sync inside of the the chipset itself because i think that's still like a
23:49SPEAKERseparate chip like a uh so it would have to be like an added cost that that's why like it makes
23:55SPEAKERme feel like it's probably g-sync compatible that they worked with nintendo to say hey you know what
24:00SPEAKERyou source the good panel we'll put a little compatible stamp on it but also if there's an
24:06SPEAKERsoc the nvidia could put the timing the timing chip the g-sync requires in the soc as well
24:12SPEAKERbecause they know exactly what's going in this box true yeah either way that that dawned on me
24:18SPEAKERthis is probably the first windows-based handheld i mean that i can think of that has g-sync
24:25SPEAKERcompatibility in it well this isn't a windows-based handheld though i'm sorry i'm sorry
24:30SPEAKERyou're right there are no windows-based handhelds that have g-sync compatibility that i can think of
24:36SPEAKERyeah there are not shaking your heads yeah i'm just sitting here resisting i did do a little
24:41SPEAKERlooking around what os this might be running i mean nobody knows yet but
24:45SPEAKERbecause i'm the kind of weirdo that is obsessed with what kinds of operating systems each console
24:50SPEAKERis running what do you think it's b uh what's up you think it's b yeah yeah the switch too runs
24:56SPEAKERbos for sure yeah john louis gas a is coming out of retirement um think of all the videos you can
25:03SPEAKERrun at the same time on this thing it's going to be amazing there there's some like very
25:07SPEAKERcircumstantial evidence that the first switch runs some version of three of free bsd but it's unknown
25:13SPEAKERbecause kind of makes stations playstations also run free bsd for what it's worth so
25:18SPEAKERbut we don't we don't have to get into that here the thing i'm the most excited about on the screen
25:22SPEAKERi mean all of it really like high res hdr is nice but it's it's the 120 hertz it's the high refresh
25:27SPEAKERand vrr not because i think we're going to get a lot of 120 hertz games but because of all the
25:33SPEAKERoptions it opens up for developers over time to massage performance on a platform that is going
25:38SPEAKERto be on the market for a long time i mean look at how look at how much the switch one struggled
25:42SPEAKERwith performance particularly in handheld mode over time so having support for like a good 40
25:48SPEAKERhertz mode on handheld i mean that's like that's like the thing on the steam deck i gather these
25:52SPEAKERdays like tons of people play games at 40 hertz now right because oh i love 40 hertz right yeah
25:57SPEAKERsmooth 40 man it's like i don't want to lose 40 i don't think i know and it's weird for people who
26:03SPEAKERhave not tried 40 hertz modes like it probably sounds weird for everybody to have regressed from
26:07SPEAKER60 to 40 and be excited about it but the difference in perceptual smoothness when you're playing it is
26:15SPEAKERlike so much more than you think it would be for something that's only 10 frames a second more than
26:19SPEAKER30. it's it's like i'm playing assassin's creed shadows on the ps5 pro at 40 hertz right now and
26:24SPEAKERit's like it might as well be 60 from my brain's like pleasure centers lighting up at how it feels
26:30SPEAKERto play because it's just as good almost do you leave motion blur on at 40 hertz brad like you
26:36SPEAKERmean in in the game settings game yeah i typically leave everything at default unless it really bugs
26:41SPEAKERme um so i think i think it's probably still warranted there but but but just generally
26:48SPEAKERwhether whether developers are going to be doing locked 40 hertz or using the vr
26:52SPEAKERlike either way like like the more tools they have to keep games running well as this hardware
26:56SPEAKERages i think the better like this kind of makes me actually maybe want to play more games in
27:01SPEAKERhandheld mode going forward and that's why there's still so many questions for me because the vr range
27:07SPEAKERif it is g-sync compatible and at least comport um according to the nvidia website uh g-sync
27:14SPEAKERcompatibility is can be anywhere from 30 to 60 up to 120 that's right okay yeah like if it's if it's
27:22SPEAKERthe v if the vr range for this is 60 to 120 then our our locked 40 is you know or unlocked 40 or
27:29SPEAKERwhatever is not gonna benefit as much um because there's no way that this is the vr range is from
27:37SPEAKERone to 120 right that that is that requires the extra hardware i bet they wouldn't want to pay for
27:44SPEAKERthat's a really good point i had forgotten like a lot of the like free sync implementations are
27:48SPEAKERlike from like 48 or 60 up right um yeah most of the windows based handhelds are all like 48
27:54SPEAKERuh to whatever it is uh the the other note i want to put in here is that there's been confusion
28:01SPEAKERaround hdr because a lot of people like eh you know hdr and lcd why would they do that
28:07SPEAKERis it going to be dimming zones how are they going to implement it and so the thing is i
28:14SPEAKERactually have a lenovo legion go s here uh this the windows based version is on the market the
28:20SPEAKERsteam os one is going to come to market and this i wonder if this is almost the exact same screen
28:27SPEAKERthis is this is taller aspect ratio so it's it's 1920 by 1200 but it has all the the same set specs
28:35SPEAKERvr or uh it is lcd it's not oled um it and it actually does have hdr support but the hdr support
28:45SPEAKERis only for video so i was i'm wondering if that's a caveat that people aren't or nvidia or i'm sorry
28:53SPEAKERnintendo is not coming out and specifying is that hey yes the screen can do hdr but it can only do
28:59SPEAKERit in video playback mode like if you're watching a trailer or youtube or something that has hdr
29:05SPEAKERsupport but the games themselves won't be in hdr i wonder which chipset is that is that an amd
29:12SPEAKERchipset yeah yeah this one is amd yeah yeah i i would think a lot of that would come down so
29:18SPEAKERyeah the hardware support for doing real-time hdr well in in video i mean uh nintendo would
29:24SPEAKERhave to would have said if it was if it was only in video mode they would have said something they
29:28SPEAKERwouldn't have acted like it's presented as hey this is an hdr screen yeah so i so i i don't know
29:35SPEAKERi i was trying because i was trying to think of like all the handhelds i have in my possession
29:40SPEAKERi was like okay well what lines up specs wise the closest and it is this lenovo legion go s i mean
29:46SPEAKERlenovo is one of the biggest manufacturers out there they do have you know the capacity to buy
29:52SPEAKERa lot of these kind of kinds of panels so i don't understand why that's only in video mode that's
29:57SPEAKERreally weird i mean and maybe i i'm missing something on how to enable it in in games but
30:04SPEAKERyeah i mean if you go to the windows settings it just says hey hdr is only available in video not
30:11SPEAKERnormal playback weird so yeah weird uh but once again it's one of those things we got to get our
30:18SPEAKERhands on and see um so and in true nintendo fashion they didn't talk about like total system
30:25SPEAKERpower or anything like that um you know what is it the steam deck operates at like 15 watts max i
30:32SPEAKERthink and some of the windows the chip is 15 watts the usually the full system you know can be around
30:39SPEAKER18 depending yeah and and some of the other windows handhelds go up to about 40 or something
30:45SPEAKERridiculous it depends yeah yeah uh but actually uh some of the youtubers that i follow like uh the
30:51SPEAKERfox retro game core they they did a little bit of math because you on if if you do the math which
30:58SPEAKERi'm not good at math so i'm not going to say how to do the math you have to go watch their videos
31:02SPEAKERuh they are estimating based off of what is being put out here that they're saying the total system
31:09SPEAKERis going to pull 10 watts uh so based off of yeah based off whatever they have on their website and
31:15SPEAKERthen nintendo saying the estimate of battery ranges i think it was like two to six hours
31:20SPEAKERor whatever they were saying hey okay you know with with this times this divided by this i don't
31:26SPEAKERknow what math it is they're saying that it looks like the whole system is going to pull 10 watts
31:31SPEAKERwhich that is low that is it's either a super efficient chip uh or you know they're not going
31:37SPEAKERto be pushing it that hard or the thing is is that while we might know the actual like capacity of
31:43SPEAKERthe battery maybe nintendo's estimates are being uh or are off not that they're misleading but
31:50SPEAKERthey're like oh you know you only get like two hours under heavy gaming but actually maybe in
31:56SPEAKERreality you get like 2.5 which might change that math a little bit maybe bump it up to like 12 uh
32:03SPEAKER12 watts you know i i'm not quite sure because i mean either way 10 watts is real low yeah although
32:10SPEAKERi think that's pretty consistent with the switch one right like that's i think that that's low by
32:13SPEAKERpc handheld standards right but i yeah yeah switch one was also around 10. i don't remember but i do
32:21SPEAKERremember that math changed a little bit with the oled switch uh that was the other reason why i was
32:26SPEAKERexcited about the oled switches because it did get better battery life um there were some uh leaked
32:33SPEAKERphotos of prototypes a few weeks ago around january it looks like like tech power up ran some
32:38SPEAKERsome photos and people did some eyeballing of size of size of the nvidia chip and it looks like they
32:43SPEAKERthey may be a five nanometer i soc in this thing down from like the the that version of nvidia to
32:50SPEAKERtigra or tegra i've asked this question so many times that i could never i say tegra
32:54SPEAKERtegra i think they always said but yeah really i like tegra sounds better to me anyway that
33:00SPEAKERversion of the tegra originally shipped on eight nanometers whenever they started shipping it in
33:04SPEAKERdevelopment boards a couple years ago but it looks like they may have gotten it down to five
33:10SPEAKERfor the switch too so hopefully that helps with with battery life a little bit
33:14SPEAKERand it's seven it's a seven sorry it's uh it's seven cores i think three a 78 p cores and four
33:23SPEAKERa 55 e cores uh eight cores eight cores i don't i don't know how arm does its heterogeneous cores
33:31SPEAKERthough oh one one hp core well it's up to the vendor they can do whatever they want or well
33:36SPEAKERwhat i mean is they have a three tiered thing here apparently they've got there's one arm cortex x1
33:41SPEAKERhp core like high performance core i assume and then there's three a 78 p cores which like the a
33:46SPEAKER78 is way more common that's like what's in the raspberry pi 4 for example and then for cortex
33:52SPEAKERa 55 e cores anyway anyway i don't know what that that one hp core it must be the super high powered
33:57SPEAKERcore it's it's probably for a single threaded stuff yeah would be my guess it's interesting
34:03SPEAKERright i like i i'm really curious to see the nvidia release said that they have uh tensor cores
34:09SPEAKERand uh and uh like dlss support and yeah and ray tracing hardware ray tracing support yeah but like
34:17SPEAKERthat that was the extent of it like their language is literally tensor cores boost ai power graphics
34:22SPEAKERrt cores enhance in-game realism like even nvidia didn't come out with any real numbers here
34:27SPEAKERwell and uh digital foundry did some some of their own real quick dirty looking at the
34:34SPEAKERthe presentations and they they didn't see any evidence of dlss being used in any of the games
34:40SPEAKERthey showed off for launch uh which is which is weird i mean well yeah it's weird and it's not
34:45SPEAKERbecause i like nintendo typically doesn't worry about any sort of anti-aliasing like that's always
34:52SPEAKERbeen their thing is that they they just give you those clean raw edges anti-aliasing is not a huge
34:57SPEAKERdeal for them so i wouldn't expect first party titles to lean heavily on dlss but third party
35:04SPEAKERtitles theoretically could so who knows maybe the third party games they showed off were from builds
35:09SPEAKERthat didn't have final dlss yeah uh in there i i'm not quite sure either way yeah that is another
35:15SPEAKERhuge question mark of like okay when is that going to be used uh i just don't know yeah there there
35:20SPEAKERwas some some reporting in the last couple weeks that nintendo has been very conservative about
35:24SPEAKERsending out dev kits for this platform for maybe obvious reasons so maybe yeah developers just
35:30SPEAKERhaven't had a lot of time to get up to speed i think i saw digital foundry saying that cyberpunk
35:34SPEAKER2077 the footage that they saw of it was running at 540p not all of it it was it fluctuated maybe
35:42SPEAKERas low as the lowest counts for 540p so presumably upscaling is going to be a big deal on this thing
35:49SPEAKERgoing forward for sure yeah i think it just yeah definitely depends on what kind of upscaling this
35:54SPEAKERis ampere technology so i mean we're not going to get dlss 4 uh dlss 3 would be the cap um and then
36:03SPEAKERyeah the amount of like rt units in there that are going to do anything other than real basic
36:09SPEAKERheavy lifting uh i i'm not gonna expect this thing to be in a ray tracing machine no i want look i
36:16SPEAKERwant the super mario 64 switch 2 version to have the metal full environment reflections in metal
36:23SPEAKERmario that's all i that's all i want fully reflective metal mario real time real time
36:28SPEAKERmetal mario one frame a second yes uh do you want to talk about storage real quick um yeah the the
36:35SPEAKERit's got 256 gig of internal storage which i think is what what the switch one launched with 64 i
36:42SPEAKERwant to say no that was 32 man was it was it yeah the original switch was right you're right watch
36:48SPEAKERthat's why launch was there's like one game that's right yeah he's like zelda and maybe a couple of
36:53SPEAKERsmaller downloads it was horrible that's right i totally forgot about that um they described the
36:58SPEAKERinternal storage as ufs which i'm not 100 sure well i did look up the spec for well there's two
37:07SPEAKERthings on the tech power up yes uh the tech power up leak from january 2nd uh stated that the
37:14SPEAKERconsole uses 256 gig flash storage at ufs 3.1 uh so the the 256 number was true so you would think
37:24SPEAKERthat based on this leak it is ufs 3.1 and then i also did look at the spec for micro sd i'm sorry
37:32SPEAKERmicro sd express yes the new external protocol uh and that is that is also ufs 3 uh and up as
37:40SPEAKERwell so yeah that all kind of lines up yeah i'm not i'm not familiar with ufs is that one of those
37:45SPEAKERlike external storage speed standards or something it's not just external yeah i think it just is like
37:52SPEAKERa speed standard for like how much throughput you can get okay either way like it seems like
37:57SPEAKERthey're putting a priority on that i wouldn't say load times on the switch are horrible they're not
38:03SPEAKERwell they're not the worst out there but like this is seems like it's going to be a lot better
38:08SPEAKERyeah yeah i think i saw the the slowest version of the sd cards that this supports again the
38:14SPEAKERstandard is micro sd express like they're tiered they're like three tiers of speed but the slowest
38:18SPEAKERone is just under a gigabyte a second which i assume i think that's the one that this uses so
38:23SPEAKERlike that's not exactly in viennese speeds but still pretty robust and like you know sure enough
38:28SPEAKERtheir flagship launch game is a an open world mario kart game you know so like maybe maybe more
38:33SPEAKERmore streaming asset type scenarios are going to be more common well it's time around if you would
38:38SPEAKERassume that they were developing this in tandem and knowing that mario this new mario kart was
38:44SPEAKERgoing to be at launch then yeah that they were probably like oh crap we need really fast storage
38:50SPEAKERto be able to handle this open world look look in the old days your mario kart karts could only be
38:56SPEAKER250 cc's because the cards the cards couldn't generate frames faster than than the than the
39:02SPEAKERcards could drive now 300 cc's no problem that's how fast the storage is going man 500 cc they
39:09SPEAKERgotta have room for the pro right the the switch switch to max the 14 inch version in three years
39:16SPEAKERyeah i think the micro express stuff is interesting as well it's gonna it's good
39:22SPEAKERlike the fact that those cards cap out at 256 256 gigs is is tough it's it's a little distressing
39:29SPEAKERand i have to assume bigger ones will be coming relatively soon the the the sandisk sorry the
39:34SPEAKERsandisk when i looked up it's 60 bucks for a 256 gig right now which is like you know it's not
39:39SPEAKERsuper cheap but it's also at least not like catastrophically expensive it's not i was looking
39:44SPEAKERover a game spot game spot.com and they were listing out some cards and they do have uh
39:50SPEAKERlexar versions and game stop versions i don't know who's manufacturing these game stop
39:55SPEAKERmicro sd express cards but they go up to one terabyte are they on the market now though uh
40:02SPEAKERyeah i'm well i mean you can you can hit the link and it just says temporarily out of stock so i
40:06SPEAKERdon't know if it's been released or it hasn't been released or whatnot but okay the the sandisk one
40:11SPEAKERwas only 128 or 256 but yeah hopefully oh i see yes two days ago this happened since the next
40:16SPEAKERlander podcast here's a here's a press release lexar ships the world's first one terabyte
40:22SPEAKERmicro sd express card so okay so that that's good there will be bigger options probably at launch
40:27SPEAKERthen yeah and either way i mean the this this is probably like hopefully overkill uh i mean this is
40:37SPEAKERfast uh i for for our camera that we have at the studio for still photography i use a cf express
40:45SPEAKERcard and i actually didn't even know this was a spec until this nintendo thing came out i was like
40:51SPEAKERwow okay so i had never heard of micro sd express until the morning this got announced so i mean i
40:58SPEAKERthink the the goal is to make it more like more like actual storage more like make the the cards
41:04SPEAKERmore like an ssd though right and and it seems like it manages stuff like right wearing and all
41:08SPEAKERthat a little bit better or at least gives a higher connection speed to the system hopefully
41:13SPEAKERi wonder i wonder how much confusion there will be though for people who are not super technically
41:17SPEAKERinclined because these are physically backwards compatible with sd card slots so how many people
41:23SPEAKERare just going to move their card over from their old switch and then like i love the fact that it
41:27SPEAKERdoesn't just work it has a mushroom on it it's going to be fine right yeah clearly you need
41:31SPEAKERmushroom cards not mario cards well yeah and i want to see the nintendo like pop-up screen to
41:37SPEAKERbe like oh hey you inserted a card you can't use it's gonna have some cute little picture on it you
41:42SPEAKERknow like it's gonna fly in and throw a spiky ball at you exactly that cat from the from the we will
41:49SPEAKERbe there or the 3ds will be there and it'll be like hey man this card sucks go buy a new one
41:54SPEAKERactually it'll just be tom nook going like this oh god making money let's see i mean there's there's
42:03SPEAKERall i mean we could probably sit here for another two hours talking about all the stuff in this but
42:06SPEAKERlike from a tech perspective like the mouse any thoughts on the mouse it looks real uncomfortable
42:11SPEAKERman yeah thumbs down adam's thumbs downing here i mean it's got kind of a vertical mouse look to it
42:17SPEAKERyou know like vertical mice are like kind of popular on pcs these days look i have a vertical
42:21SPEAKERmouse on my desk right now this this does not look like any like i i i don't know where people
42:28SPEAKERare going to be playing their switches that they're like oh man i gotta bust switch over
42:32SPEAKERto mouse mode and then are not like running it on their knee or or like we're gonna get lap desks
42:38SPEAKERout so we can play switch games the word out of that event from new york was people saying like
42:42SPEAKERyes this will work on your couch which is what i guess the i think i noticed i mean it may not be
42:47SPEAKERideal but like the the the little sheath you know that you put over the the rail side or in this
42:52SPEAKERcase the magnet side of the joy con to like make it a whole controller it looks like from the photos
42:57SPEAKERof that i saw it looks like there are teflon anti-anti-friction pads like you would have on
43:03SPEAKERthe bottom of a gaming mouse it looks like there are pads on those things to make it make it glide
43:08SPEAKERlike a proper mouse oh man i want to skepticism here and see i i think this is a nintendo style
43:14SPEAKERgimmick well you know they needed something as a gimmick and i i nobody is going to require this
43:21SPEAKERyou can't have a game that's that's only mouse mold motive only so this is always going to be a
43:26SPEAKERsecond kind of thing right uh the the basketball game i think is is uses it right mouse exclusively
43:33SPEAKERi don't know about i don't know that exclusively it it it strongly implied that you're controlling
43:39SPEAKERthe wheelchair wheels and shooting by using the mouse mode well like they could put that on sticks
43:43SPEAKERas well okay i mean either way i yeah i'm not going to use this this looks really stupid uh
43:51SPEAKERand yeah i think it's a gimmick i think developers there'll be some games at launch and then it'll be
43:56SPEAKERone of those gimmicks that nobody uses for the rest of the switch's life absolutely possible
44:02SPEAKERand in fact probably likely i will give it a try for metroid prime 4 though yeah like that they
44:08SPEAKERtreehouse did a bunch of streams after the announcement over the next couple days
44:12SPEAKERshowing the games pretty extensively like if you want to see some like some just 20 minutes of
44:16SPEAKERdonkey kong bonanza or mario card like you can just go to their youtube channel there's like
44:20SPEAKERactually a ton of footage of those games being played live now but the guy playing metroid had
44:26SPEAKERa big old mouse mat on a table in front of him when they were about to cut over to the um to the
44:31SPEAKERgame and he had the controllers in mouse mode but then they never cut back to a camera feed of his
44:36SPEAKERhands the whole time he was playing that game because i really wanted to see somebody's hands
44:40SPEAKERin action yeah can you control the dpi is there a switch on it you know i just wanted to see some
44:46SPEAKERaction shots of what it's actually like to use that thing in like a high performance situation
44:49SPEAKERbut they did not show it well uh i mean look this is the natural evolution of nintendo bringing
44:55SPEAKERgyro controls to the kids with splatoon the kids love gyro controls they they always want hey i
45:02SPEAKERwant hybrid modes i can control movement with my joystick and mouse to aim and it's a huge hassle
45:10SPEAKERfor everybody on unreal engine so thanks i i think i think this is just going to allow people to do
45:15SPEAKERtheir taxes on a switch so oh gosh there you go the feedback from people who had hands-on was that
45:26SPEAKERthe magnetic magnetic joy con holders were pretty good right yeah i've seen like every comment i've
45:33SPEAKERseen about the vat feature has been like pretty pretty enthusiastic like people going like oh
45:39SPEAKERit feels like the the process of attaching the mag the joy cons with magnets feels way better
45:43SPEAKERthan you think like they attach in a way more sturdy way than the rails on the first switch
45:48SPEAKERfelt do they have that same sound though where it clicks in that i don't know that classic switch
45:53SPEAKERi would be like out of the speaker i hope so that like that that sound is such a part of the switch
45:58SPEAKERbrand identity at this point if they don't have that i feel like that's like a that's because if
46:02SPEAKERit doesn't do it naturally then they gotta add a little bit of this you're right they totally do
46:07SPEAKERhow many times did you guys put the little uh the little cover things on upside down
46:13SPEAKEReverything maybe the little like things i i use those a lot actually because i'll play like we
46:21SPEAKERjust uh went on a flight uh recently and my wife and i like to play mario kart on the plane and i
46:28SPEAKERdefinitely need those extra little bumpers because without it it yeah can hurt buttons are unhittable
46:34SPEAKERyeah yeah yeah um i think that's it for the switch huh yeah i think that might be it for like
46:40SPEAKERkind of top line interesting tech hardware choices on this thing i'm i'm excited about it i i think
46:47SPEAKERit looks like it's it's basically what i expected but it's like maybe 10 better than i expected
46:52SPEAKERwhich again is mostly because of nintendo's very conservative nature about hardware design like it
46:57SPEAKERfeels it feels like it's not lacking anything i would have wanted out of a new switch for sure
47:03SPEAKERyeah yeah no i'm i'm super excited i mean i'm gonna be excited for it anyway but yeah i i'm
47:10SPEAKERexcited for it i think it's gonna have some interesting stuff and yeah i i hope i hope
47:16SPEAKERthey made enough that uh i can get my hands on well you can pre-order on uh well hold on never
47:23SPEAKERmind you're you're supposed to be able to pre-order on april 9th and then you could register interest
47:28SPEAKERright now which i did yeah well did you see did you see the story this morning adam i know you've
47:32SPEAKERbeen yeah no i yeah i saw that they yeah they're saying pre-orders are not going to start yet but
47:37SPEAKERi still have my interest in i i assume they had priced some amount of tariffs into the announced
47:44SPEAKERprice but obviously not anywhere near as much as what landed i mean who knows they could be
47:48SPEAKERbuilding them on some uninhabited island someplace that has a really high tariff rate because uh
47:53SPEAKERof our stupid government uh yeah anyway i don't know yeah where the well we don't need to get
47:58SPEAKERwith the price stuff let's move okay okay okay um well i think the big question is is this going to
48:06SPEAKERpush the windows based handhelds any further what does this mean for the windows side of things
48:12SPEAKERbecause if this is now the new baseline then then what does that mean for the steam deck a lot of
48:19SPEAKERpeople are like hey is there going to be a new steam deck coming are we hoping for a new steam
48:24SPEAKERdeck anytime soon and i could see nintendo people looking over at the steam deck and be like it's
48:29SPEAKERonly an 800p screen it's only got 90 hertz i mean look you're not gonna play mario on your on your
48:36SPEAKERsteam deck adam uh that's that's just the way it is it's not gonna the hardware is not fast enough
48:40SPEAKERit turns out yeah there's definitely no way to play a mario game on a steam deck it's truly
48:45SPEAKERimpossible whatsoever uh how about playing mario on an xbox handheld wow maybe maybe maybe you're
48:55SPEAKERsaying nintendo's gonna buy microsoft yes that's what i'm saying definitely definitely definitely
49:01SPEAKERnintendo has the capital to pull off something like that well what is it today is either today or
49:06SPEAKERyesterday that we're recording this at microsoft turned 50 maybe that was their part of their
49:09SPEAKERannouncement right yeah it's today they're like hey to celebrate we're offloading the xbox division
49:15SPEAKERand nintendo is going to buy it yeah that's right um yeah there there are there are these rumors
49:20SPEAKERswirling like picking up a lot of steam actually a lot of them out of windows central reporting
49:25SPEAKERrecently about an xbox handheld due possibly this year it sounds like like the the gist of the rumor
49:32SPEAKERis that there is an xbox handheld coming soon but that microsoft is not making it which is
49:37SPEAKERlike microsoft has got a long and storied hardware division so for them to not make a like an xbox
49:43SPEAKERbranded piece of hardware is unusual if not surprising if they made it it'd probably be arm
49:49SPEAKERand it would have a bunch of ai nonsense that nobody's going to use so maybe getting somebody
49:55SPEAKERwho actually makes these is good copilot plus xbox handheld well actually i mean not to not
49:59SPEAKERto put the card before the horse but so like like a lot of this reporting is coming from jez cordon
50:03SPEAKERat windows central like i mentioned and he speculates at the end of their just kind of
50:07SPEAKERbig roundup everything we know piece he actually speculates that microsoft possibly will still
50:12SPEAKERmake their own handheld some years down the line it kind of sounds like maybe that might be tied
50:17SPEAKERinto the next console like the actual next xbox which is probably still another two three years
50:22SPEAKERaway um so i almost wonder i almost wonder if this third party xbox handheld initiative is a stop gap
50:29SPEAKERto start like they you know they need to they need to plant a flag in this market that is becoming
50:34SPEAKERlike pretty hot right and like they need to get xbox branded hardware out in the handheld space
50:38SPEAKERnow and then maybe down the line the next xbox ties into a more like bespoke like maybe maybe
50:46SPEAKERwhatever they would be working on in the handheld space would be something that tied in much more
50:49SPEAKERdirectly to whatever the next xbox is going to be like i do you think they'll use off-the-shelf
50:54SPEAKERhardware i can't imagine they wouldn't work with amd to build a custom apu for well for for this
51:00SPEAKERtheoretical like next xbox handheld it would be probably more custom but i don't adam you tell me
51:05SPEAKERi mean the it feels like the the different amd offerings in the windows handheld space are getting
51:12SPEAKERgood enough that they absolutely could use something off the shelf for this or whatever
51:15SPEAKERthis thing is that might be coming out this year right i think hot take this is all hui
51:22SPEAKERi say i think we're we're reading way too much into these tea leaves i think this is just going
51:28SPEAKERto be a rebrand like okay this is this is going to be this could be an asus rog ally and instead of
51:36SPEAKERwhite what if it's black right and it's got it's got it's got an xbox button on it that is just
51:42SPEAKERrelabeled that they etched off the labeling right and they just put a little xbox button
51:47SPEAKERum and that that's all it is because there is actually a lot of companies out there that work
51:52SPEAKERwith xbox to get xbox branded stuff 8bitdo i i have one of their uh retro keyboards right
51:58SPEAKERhere they make an xbox branded version of this yes which is xbox yeah like there's the other
52:06SPEAKERkeyboards i've seen yeah i don't like it either there's wait does it have like the og original
52:10SPEAKERxbox font or is it styled it's styled after the hell yeah the first xbox um yeah the original
52:16SPEAKERxbox uh it's like 20 bigger than any other keyboard for no reason that you can tell adequately yeah
52:22SPEAKERand some of the keys are really small yeah so i i think you were 100 right i don't even think
52:27SPEAKERit's likely i think you're absolutely right that this is just going to be pretty much an rog ally
52:33SPEAKERbut looking like an xbox the the thing that i think might be different here is i feel like i'm
52:38SPEAKERnot the only one that's been asking this but i've been asking for like two three years now since the
52:42SPEAKERsteam deck really blew up like where is the windows equivalent of steam os you know like you can run
52:47SPEAKERwindows on a steam deck or other handheld now but it's like kind of just windows right but like i'm
52:53SPEAKERtalking about i'm talking about a windows that would boot up to a nicely styled game launcher
52:58SPEAKERthat looks like it fits on a handheld screen it's got like handheld power optimizations and sleep
53:03SPEAKERfeatures and save suspend type integration you know like something that feels more bespokely
53:09SPEAKERdesigned as a handheld gaming os like where is that windows you know and like i wonder if
53:14SPEAKERthat's what's going to launch in conjunction with this that they're waiting for an xbox branded
53:20SPEAKERhandheld to be on the market for there to be like a windows that feels like it's made for
53:24SPEAKERhandheld gaming you're shaking your head no no i don't think so i i mean it's hard because i've
53:31SPEAKERheard of plenty of companies and i've asked them hey why are you getting in the handheld space
53:36SPEAKERthere's a lot of companies like yeah too many to name that i'm like why are you making a handheld
53:42SPEAKERthere can't be a huge market there can't be a lot of margin on this like why are you getting into
53:47SPEAKERit and they're like well that's where the excitement is in pc gaming so we want to be there
53:53SPEAKERi think the same thing applies for microsoft sure they probably want to be there because that is
53:58SPEAKERwhere a lot of the excitement is but when windows is on billions of devices across the world and
54:05SPEAKERyou're talking about it you know maybe a handful of million people using handhelds uh then it's
54:13SPEAKERlike okay well why would we dedicate all this time and resources to diverting from windows 12 or
54:19SPEAKERwhatever to say hey we're gonna go make it a fork of of windows just for handhelds i just can't
54:26SPEAKERimagine it that would make sense for them it seems like it would be better for them to like fix the
54:34SPEAKERproblems with windows that make handheld gaming on windows bad like hey what if there's a a
54:41SPEAKERtoggle in windows update that lets you get gaming like new gaming optimized drivers instead of like
54:47SPEAKERthe safe wiggle drivers right well let me let me stop you to be clear what i'm talking about is
54:52SPEAKERbasically just a ui refresh on top of windows i don't i'm not saying they need to go architect a
54:56SPEAKERwhole new handheld windows all i meant was like replace the desktop shell with something that is
55:00SPEAKERlike the steam os interface that you boot into you know like proper the same big picture is is
55:05SPEAKERmaybe a better comparison actually what you're talking about is windows windows 8 right where
55:10SPEAKERthey had kind of yeah you would boot into the tiles space area and then you were like oh if i
55:14SPEAKERwant to go to my desktop i just hit that desktop tile right i mean that's basically the kind of
55:19SPEAKERthing i mean like under the hood this is still going to be windows in fact like that's the
55:22SPEAKERcompetitive advantage here because like the one thing they could boast with this that steam os
55:27SPEAKERcan't is hey you can play fortnite like you can play valor and you can still play your kernel
55:32SPEAKERanti-cheat style games that do not run in steam os on our handheld but like they need something
55:38SPEAKERlike the average person that just wants to play handheld games does not want to see a fucking
55:41SPEAKERwindows desktop with a mouse cursor on it when they turn on their windows handheld like it needs
55:45SPEAKERto have a friendly controller centric interface on top of it and that's what i'm talking about
55:49SPEAKERi don't mean like yeah no s under the hood i mean like where is the where is the gaming controller
55:54SPEAKERoriented ui front end to go on top of windows to run on this thing like that's that's the only way
56:00SPEAKERthis initiative makes sense to me is if if they're really going to lean into their everything as an
56:04SPEAKERxbox strategy like they need to they need a new unified like handheld and console interface that
56:10SPEAKERcan be the same across all devices the number of people who still still work at microsoft who are
56:16SPEAKERthere when they shut down media center and tablet editions which were the last times they did these
56:20SPEAKERkind of like reskinned versions of windows for specific purposes probably hardly anybody's still
56:26SPEAKERthere so like they don't remember what a debacle they were and they're like i think it's it's not
56:33SPEAKERout of the question i think it's more likely they'll revamp the xbox app to be like a top
56:39SPEAKERlevel hey you can update your drivers here you can update the os here you can do all the windows
56:44SPEAKERstuff that you need to do here with a joystick interface and and then that makes sense right
56:49SPEAKERand is accessible to everybody else who wants it yeah that could be what i'm talking about
56:54SPEAKERlike if it's just the xbox app launches when you turn on the device or whatever that's fine but
56:58SPEAKERit can't be it can't be the desktop is what i'm saying like you can't be looking at desktop icons
57:02SPEAKERand a mouse cursor on an xbox handheld like people are just not going to accept that yeah i mean most
57:08SPEAKERof these don't do that by default anyway most of them have some sort of vendor thing that launches
57:14SPEAKERyeah so that's by default right i think the bigger problem is that you can well you can hook into
57:21SPEAKERother platforms from whatever front end that these companies have and say hey say say microsoft there
57:28SPEAKERis evidence tom warren over at the verge reported this uh was it march 20th that there they had some
57:34SPEAKERsort of ui uh that indicated a steam game in the xbox app on windows like just being shown right
57:43SPEAKERyeah but i don't think it's still going to have that same problem where you might have integration
57:47SPEAKERinto that front end but you still are going to have to go to the steam app to log in download
57:53SPEAKERthe game uh you know just get some of that that stuff enabled and ready yeah that's probably
57:59SPEAKERknown you can have that overlay so yeah and also that's a separate team a team that makes an
58:05SPEAKERoverlay for windows to log into a handheld is i think would be different than the team that's
58:12SPEAKERworking on the xbox app to be that thing if that makes sense that might be true but i i'm really
58:18SPEAKERi'm really taking a lot of cues from how hard they are leaning into this everything is an xbox
58:22SPEAKERcampaign and where that's going with regard to the next console that's coming out and i really feel
58:27SPEAKERlike they if they're not doing this they should be doing this that they need to be working on some
58:32SPEAKERkind of unified unified ui and user experience across everything that is apparently now in xbox
58:37SPEAKERfor for them to for them to really realize this supposed dream that their ecosystem is everywhere
58:42SPEAKERyou want to play a game the weird thing about all of this though is that none of this comes with
58:47SPEAKERhey you can play your xbox games on this oh yeah yeah yes that's we'd super buried the lead on what
58:53SPEAKERthis story is apparently setting up which is that this will not play xbox games quote unquote like
58:59SPEAKERthe xbox skews of games you have been buying on consoles since the xbox one will not run on this
59:06SPEAKERthis is a windows handheld it's just an xbox branded windows handheld so it'll play it would
59:10SPEAKERplay any game that is like play anywhere that you bought on an xbox but also has a windows store
59:15SPEAKERpc version yeah not play trying to think of like like rise son of rome right or something
59:26SPEAKERyou kind of do have to go that far back though because like so many like most
59:30SPEAKERor maybe not most but a lot of the tentpole xbox releases have microsoft store versions as well
59:35SPEAKERthese days so you do have to go right like you do you do have to go a ways back to think of xbox only
59:40SPEAKERgames that that never came to microsoft's pc so i was gonna say all of their game pass deals since
59:47SPEAKERthey rolled out the ultimate stuff with the cross with you know the xbox and windows versions have
59:54SPEAKERincluded play anywhere for the with a handful of exceptions yeah and all their first party stuff
1:00:00SPEAKERfor almost a decade at this point and that's what i mean i think they've been seeding the ground for
1:00:05SPEAKERthis reality for years now that like even even even even if this thing technically only runs
1:00:09SPEAKERwindows games and not xbox games from the console like there's functionally not going to be a lot of
1:00:14SPEAKERdifference going forward because they are making sure that so many new games run on both platforms
1:00:19SPEAKERbut you can't play like your xbox 360 back like cotor on this thing right i mean unless maybe
1:00:25SPEAKERthey port that you know like that there's no reason they couldn't make that stuff work outside
1:00:30SPEAKERof like legal restrictions from contractual stuff probably like technically they certainly could
1:00:35SPEAKERbring that 360 compatibility stuff over i think it's it's much more likely that they make it part
1:00:39SPEAKERof your game pass slash yeah yeah whatever cloud play subscription yeah anyway i don't know i feel
1:00:46SPEAKERlike they've got interesting opportunities around whatever a an xbox handheld looks like in the next
1:00:52SPEAKERyear or two if they if they go that far but we'll see i'll say that they they are probably seeing
1:01:00SPEAKERthe imminent launch of steam os versions of these handles and saying well crap we need to have
1:01:06SPEAKERsomething that indicates what ours is yeah because the lonobo legion go s is a perfect example where
1:01:11SPEAKERthey've got two identical devices one is cheaper than the other one says steam os i guess the color
1:01:19SPEAKERis different too for the steam os version but instead of being like oh do you want to buy the
1:01:23SPEAKERsteam os version or the non-steam os version they're like oh do you want to buy the steam
1:01:27SPEAKERversion or the steam os version or the xbox version right and then the xbox version is
1:01:33SPEAKERactually just windows could that be an easier sell to somebody at best buy who maybe was like oh i
1:01:39SPEAKERdon't want windows 11 they're like oh this is just an xbox right because everything's an xbox i'm
1:01:44SPEAKERgoing to tell you if they sell this and you can't play your xbox games on it people are going to be
1:01:49SPEAKERmad returns yeah maybe i mean how many of those games are there though like i said you know are
1:01:55SPEAKERpeople trying to play dead rising 3 on this thing probably not man i love dead rising 3 though that's
1:02:00SPEAKERokay it was all right i'm doing a dip into the steam deck stuff just a little bit yeah we we can
1:02:06SPEAKERi mean i feel like it isn't the story there that there isn't much of a story like it's just been
1:02:11SPEAKERkind of like steady as she goes for the steam deck lately right i mean the big the big thing is
1:02:16SPEAKERthe rise of steam os on non-valve hardware yeah yeah and also like this is a little bit tangential
1:02:24SPEAKERbut there's been talk for like months now that val's is going to do a proper new steam os desktop
1:02:31SPEAKERrelease i don't know if they've have they ever actually talked about that or is that adams
1:02:35SPEAKERcrossing his fingers like i don't know if they've ever i ever actually come out and said that or is
1:02:39SPEAKERthat just something people are inferring well the the standalone thing that you should be able to
1:02:45SPEAKERput on any handheld or any laptop or desktop i think is probably in that same family i think
1:02:51SPEAKERit's just more like okay have did they work with the vendor to get it approved when i uh was able
1:02:57SPEAKERto talk with the guys over at valve uh when i met with lenovo at ces that was their thing they're
1:03:04SPEAKERlike hey we we want to work with select partners make sure that the experience like all the button
1:03:09SPEAKERmapping all that kind of stuff works by default uh but they'll have an option for steam os that
1:03:15SPEAKERyou can just roll your own which i mean you you actually can do right now they have that it's not
1:03:20SPEAKERthe same thing it's not yeah i think what you're looking for sorry yeah i mean this is all downstream
1:03:26SPEAKERof everybody hates windows now like that's i mean i'm sure you guys notice like the the groundswell
1:03:30SPEAKERof like directed ire at windows these days is just getting worse and worse and like people are like
1:03:36SPEAKERtrying to jump ship you know i think it's certain nerd communities are maybe overrepresented here
1:03:44SPEAKERi've heard it's the year of the linux uh somebody keeps saying that over on the phone i don't know
1:03:49SPEAKERthere's a there's a lot of gnashing of teeth about windows out there anyway you see a lot of people
1:03:53SPEAKERgoing like oh i'd love to move to linux and just tell windows to fuck itself but i want steam os
1:03:58SPEAKERlike there are people that don't want to deal with something like bazite that they've never heard of
1:04:02SPEAKERbut they would trust a release from valve and so i don't know i i think um my guess is that for
1:04:10SPEAKERthe foreseeable future it's going to be hey you can put this on certain handhelds and if you want
1:04:15SPEAKERto have a more desktopy experience bazite's going to be your way to go right right because like
1:04:19SPEAKERsupport on nvidia is still pretty thorny for that sort of thing so it's getting better but but it's
1:04:24SPEAKERstill there's some janky stuff there yeah i mean i've installed an nvidia drivers on two distros
1:04:30SPEAKERrecently it's still pretty rough yeah that's that's that's a bummer yeah because i'm excited
1:04:35SPEAKERto try it on laptop but yeah if that's how the bazite people can differentiate themselves say
1:04:41SPEAKERhey you know what steam os is here you're gonna be able to do it on on most of the handhelds but
1:04:45SPEAKERbazite decides to go off in the direction of okay we'll do something that's more laptop and desktop
1:04:50SPEAKERcentric that would be super cool yeah i'd be done yeah there are definitely distros that are
1:04:55SPEAKERsmoothing that stuff over anyway i didn't mean to divert from actual steam deck handheld well my
1:05:00SPEAKERquestion is because i don't i don't believe that the there's a steam deck 2 anywhere this year and
1:05:08SPEAKERi i personally would be super surprised even next year either but that that might not rule out a
1:05:15SPEAKERrefresh another refresh though right could could they come out and be like hey you know what we
1:05:21SPEAKERbumped the specs of the oled version from 90 to 120 uh or or hey you know what now we're going
1:05:27SPEAKERto give you an option for a higher higher pixel density panel uh you know it's essentially the
1:05:35SPEAKERsame thing but just some upgrades here and there yeah i could see that will was will was a you that
1:05:41SPEAKERsaid on the next liner podcast so something to the effect of like one steam deck per console
1:05:45SPEAKERgeneration i i feel like that's the thing they're signaling that that's what they're signaling that
1:05:50SPEAKERthey're working on is that there'll be one hardware it makes sense because a lot of the value is the
1:05:55SPEAKERstuff like the shader compilation that happens that they do and then they put them up in the
1:06:00SPEAKERservers and you just downloaded the compiled shaders for your hardware and uh for whichever
1:06:05SPEAKERversion of the drivers you have so so you're like you you don't have shader compilation waits on
1:06:11SPEAKERsteam deck steam deck games for the most part because valve handles that i i'm curious how
1:06:16SPEAKERthey're going to handle that when there's new hardware SKUs from Lenovo and other people as
1:06:19SPEAKERwell if they're going to do they're taking on that server side stuff uh and how that that's going to
1:06:24SPEAKERgo that's a good question but while i agree with you i don't think that rules out refreshes right
1:06:30SPEAKERif they do one steam deck per generation i think we could see maybe one more refresh out of this
1:06:37SPEAKERoriginal steam deck i think they're going to do more colors honestly i think we'll see uh
1:06:41SPEAKERatomic purple i think we're going to see some spice maybe a i don't want to say gamecube orange
1:06:48SPEAKERbut i know people who are very into that color transparent anybody yeah i mean i i have my
1:06:53SPEAKERtransparent uh limited edition i love it um yeah i i totally i mean i agree with both of you i
1:06:59SPEAKERthink absolutely they could they could rev incidental specs on yeah like screen and stuff
1:07:04SPEAKERlike that but i think what will meant is like a steam deck two will probably wait until the
1:07:08SPEAKERnext generation of consoles which actually did the steam deck one really only come out three years
1:07:13SPEAKERago uh-huh that's crazy to me that's it feels like it's been on the it's like it feels it's
1:07:18SPEAKERbeen like it's been a fact of video games for like this entire generation so like it kind of
1:07:23SPEAKERhas been though right but it's the fact that it's only three years old seems crazy because it just
1:07:28SPEAKERfeels like a bedrock part of how people play games now but but but like it's it's it you're
1:07:33SPEAKERtying it to this generation of consoles because the consoles weren't really readily available until
1:07:38SPEAKERafter it was it was out right yeah like i bought an xbox series s in 2022 i bought a
1:07:45SPEAKERplaystation 5 in like late 2021 um they were hard to get early on because of the pandemic stuff
1:07:52SPEAKERright yeah so i mean in that context you absolutely could see if if the consoles come out in 27 like
1:07:58SPEAKERseems to be possible at this point like that a steam deck in 28 or something like that i mean
1:08:04SPEAKERthat's about a proper life cycle for the first steam deck five six years i think makes sense
1:08:09SPEAKERlike it makes sense for them to to like like their whole model look man say what you about valve but
1:08:17SPEAKERbut they are let the market do the work and their whole goal with this thing is to to do the hard
1:08:23SPEAKERwork so the the other oems they're doing the hard software work up front so that the other vendors
1:08:30SPEAKERcan do the hard hardware work long term and and they're going to keep selling them because like
1:08:34SPEAKERthe numbers i was hearing out of um the people at gdc are that they're estimating like six million
1:08:40SPEAKERplus units shipped now on the steam deck side um and and like that's not an inconsequential amount
1:08:48SPEAKERof money for valve but compared to 30 of the entire pc games market it's it's pretty small
1:08:54SPEAKERso like if they can if they can kick start this market with the steam deck and then do new
1:09:00SPEAKERhardware every few every once a generation and let asus and lenovo and acer and all the other folks
1:09:05SPEAKERfill in the gaps they're going to absolutely do that yeah and even though i like to collect a
1:09:10SPEAKERbunch uh like i still feel like most people are going to invest in one and they're going to hold
1:09:14SPEAKERon to it for many years so like the up like the potential buyer who bought a steam deck lcd maybe
1:09:21SPEAKERdidn't want to spring for an oled is probably still going to be okay with it for a year or two
1:09:26SPEAKERlonger until the next one i feel like this time last year you and i went through kind of hands-on
1:09:32SPEAKERlike giving me some hands-on experience with a lot of the higher performing handhelds the the the
1:09:38SPEAKERasus uh rgl ax and the and the lenovo one some other stuff and like it was nice but the way i
1:09:46SPEAKERused my steam deck it wasn't impactful at all right like i if i'm going to play something
1:09:51SPEAKERthat performance matters i often am streaming from my pc to the steam deck and if i'm playing some
1:09:56SPEAKERsome like deep rock galactic uh their vampire survivors game it literally runs great on the
1:10:02SPEAKERsteam deck so like perf isn't as much of an issue the screen size doesn't matter as much i'm just
1:10:08SPEAKERlooking for a convenient way to play pc games it doesn't involve me sitting in my office for
1:10:12SPEAKERanother three hours a night yeah anything else on the windows side adam i know we're starting
1:10:17SPEAKERto see lunar lake stuff shipping there but that's kind of the big the big thing i think right
1:10:21SPEAKERyeah i do have a strix halo based tablet in a lot of people are like oh wow this is going to come
1:10:29SPEAKERto handhelds sometime soon and i say no because what is strix halo adam sorry strix halo is there
1:10:36SPEAKERuh ryzen ai 300 max oh i think that's the name something like that anyway that that's their new
1:10:43SPEAKERapu that has a huge gpu i don't remember like depending on the skew it's either 32 or 40
1:10:50SPEAKERcompute units which is just massive compared to the other uh apus that are on the market
1:10:55SPEAKERit's like their workstation apu right yeah it's like a work yeah like i think many pcs are kind of
1:11:01SPEAKERwhere it's aiming towards and it's like really trying to take on like a mac mini uh kind of thing
1:11:07SPEAKERthis is in a tablet form so this is the asus rog flow z13 i i like i love the chip that is a
1:11:15SPEAKERpowerful chip but the form factor in this 13 inch tablet is just not doing anything for me and all
1:11:22SPEAKERthe all the handheld people that think that are it's going to come to handhelds which would be
1:11:26SPEAKERreally cool to have that much graphical horsepower in a handheld uh the operating range for this
1:11:31SPEAKERt uh for the tdp is like 35 to 105 watts or something like that so like getting it in a
1:11:37SPEAKERhandheld it would just be stupid you yeah or it would just be like so constrained that it's not
1:11:45SPEAKERactually that much better than any of the other apus on the market um so at ces amd did also
1:11:53SPEAKERannounce uh three three full z2 processors so the z2 go has already been released in the lenovo
1:12:03SPEAKERlegion go that i have here i'm sorry the lenovo legion go s that i have here um and a couple other
1:12:10SPEAKERhandhelds that have announced it uh but we have yet to see the z2 vanilla or the z2 extreme uh
1:12:19SPEAKEReven even lenovo for their z2 go i'm sorry for their lenovo legion go s they have two variants
1:12:26SPEAKERof it the the go chip which is essentially not that much more powerful than the steam deck
1:12:33SPEAKERand then rather than going the z2 for the upgraded chip they continue to to put in the z1 extreme
1:12:40SPEAKERwhich is very interesting to me because that is a it's been around for a couple years it is
1:12:46SPEAKERa really good chipset but it seems to be like it'll operate the same as the z2 vanilla so the
1:12:52SPEAKERwith a couple tweaks so that's a really weird messaging on their end to be like oh hey
1:12:58SPEAKERgo buy a lenovo legion go s uh do you want the z2 go or the z1 extreme well which one's better well
1:13:05SPEAKERthe z1 extreme is better well but the other one has a two in it so yeah it yeah so i i at least
1:13:13SPEAKERas of right now i have not seen any major manufacturers or even any of those shins and
1:13:17SPEAKERbase companies announce anything with the z2 vanilla or z2 extreme so that's
1:13:23SPEAKERa little odd for me i don't know if that's a supply chain issue maybe they're you know tsmc is
1:13:30SPEAKERjust cranking out other stuff for amd and they're not prioritizing it yet but either way the z1
1:13:37SPEAKERextreme seems to be here at least through the end of this year so see this is the other opportunity
1:13:42SPEAKERthat microsoft has on top of unifying a gaming windows interface is just saying here's the xbox
1:13:49SPEAKERhandheld like you don't need to worry about which version of an apu is in here you know like that
1:13:54SPEAKERlike like you just said like that the market confusion around these different chips and
1:13:59SPEAKERdifferent models from all these different manufacturers starts to get pretty overwhelming
1:14:04SPEAKERat some point but for microsoft to just come in and be like hey this is the xbox handheld this
1:14:07SPEAKERis what we're supporting for the foreseeable future like that feels like like that clarity and
1:14:12SPEAKERsingular focus feels like it would be appealing for a lot of people yeah well i i hope it's not
1:14:19SPEAKERif they do a singular device like that i hope it's not the z2 go because that is pretty
1:14:24SPEAKERunderwhelming right now like to get this brand new device and and this actually the legion go s is a
1:14:31SPEAKERreally nice device but that that z2 go chipset in there is just very underwhelming and yeah just not
1:14:38SPEAKERmuch faster than a steam deck so like to invest in that right now would be a little short-sighted
1:14:44SPEAKERi mean it depends on the game you're playing but also this thing they had to i think they
1:14:48SPEAKERerased the price by 500 bucks so like it i'm sorry not 550 dollars uh not 500 500 would be a lot uh
1:14:57SPEAKERso yeah i i don't know i think amd is trying to get cheaper chipsets out there to compete
1:15:05SPEAKERcloser with the steam deck and the steam os version of the legion go s is getting closer
1:15:12SPEAKERbut it's still they can't compete at that price i mean valve is just you know i i would love to
1:15:19SPEAKERknow if they take a like if they're at least breaking even with that hardware or if they're
1:15:25SPEAKERlike yeah you know what we'll sell a little loss for ever because we don't care we'll make it up in
1:15:29SPEAKERsoftware truly no one outside valve can know like i bet i bet that they have a number you know that
1:15:36SPEAKERthey know exactly what the attach rate is for every person who buys a steam deck how many games
1:15:40SPEAKERthey buy on the downhill side of that and i bet it is a substantial number of games probably probably
1:15:48SPEAKERwell i guess that's it for us then that's a good place to wrap it up uh adam patrick murray thank
1:15:52SPEAKERyou for coming by where can people find you uh i run video over a pc world you can either go to
1:15:58SPEAKERyoutube and search for pc world or if you want to listen to our pc hardware based podcast that will
1:16:06SPEAKERis is has been on for a little bit then uh check out the podcast the full nerd uh not not because
1:16:13SPEAKERwe're like hungry nerds like because we're full we've got a lot of information i believe is the
1:16:19SPEAKERis the thought and and uh it's uh it's it's uh it's found wherever find podcasts are found apple
1:16:26SPEAKERgoogle youtube deezer all the all the good podcast places yeah please hit us up over on deezer it's
1:16:33SPEAKERour number one listen place i'm kidding that's a joke that'll do it for us this week thanks for
1:16:40SPEAKERlistening everybody as always brad and will made a tech pod is listener supported we wouldn't be
1:16:44SPEAKERhere without you the listeners and if you would like to find out how to support the show you can
1:16:48SPEAKERgo to patreon.com slash tech bod again that's patreon.com slash tech bod where for five dollars
1:16:55SPEAKERfive bucks that's it that's all we ask you get access to the discord you get access to the
1:17:00SPEAKERpatron exclusive episodes where brad talks about compiling his own kernel and no they're like not
1:17:05SPEAKERcompile my internal hooking uh like signing uefi bootloader images i didn't do that i've
1:17:12SPEAKERalready i've wrote a script to do it to automate the process yep nerd multiple doing this so much
1:17:18SPEAKERthat you have to write a script for it uh let's see talk about mounting windows storage spaces
1:17:22SPEAKERin linux um butter fs for windows all sorts of nerd stuff butter fs windows some yes some
1:17:29SPEAKEResoteric shit this week this month uh again it's patreon.com slash tech pod uh and as always we
1:17:36SPEAKERwant to thank all of our patrons but especially our executive producer tier patrons including
1:17:41SPEAKERandrew slosky jordan lippett bunny themed twinkle twinkie david allen james kamek jason lee and
1:17:50SPEAKERpantheon makers of the hs3 high speed 3d printer thanks all thank you all so much
1:17:54SPEAKERadam thank you so much for coming by it's always a pleasure to see you sir
1:17:58SPEAKERhey thanks uh i feel honored to be able to show up especially on my vacation yeah i was gonna say
1:18:03SPEAKERyou took time out of your time off to be on the podcast so the extra thank you am i ever truly
1:18:08SPEAKERoff yeah that's you know that's that's work that's a bigger question to address
1:18:13SPEAKERhopping off all the time is what i say uh we will see you all next week thanks for listening
1:18:18SPEAKERand as always please consider the environment before printing this podcast what if you want
1:18:23SPEAKERto fax it no no faxes ever faxing is never the answer