269: Comically Tall Laptops

00:00SPEAKER- Brad, did you feel the earthquake this morning?

00:02SPEAKER- I didn't, this was kind of news to me.

00:05SPEAKER- It was at 3.75 kilometers Northwest of the zoo.

00:09SPEAKERThat's in the ocean.

00:10SPEAKER- Oh, it was in the ocean.

00:11SPEAKER3.7 is not nothing, right?

00:14SPEAKER- 3.7 is one of those,

00:15SPEAKER3.7 is in the realm of if it's far from you,

00:18SPEAKERyou won't, it'll feel like a garbage truck driving by.

00:21SPEAKERAnd if you're in the right spot,

00:23SPEAKERit makes you jump out of bed

00:24SPEAKERand think that the world is ending.

00:26SPEAKER- That was you this morning?

00:27SPEAKER- That was what happened to me this morning.

00:28SPEAKER- Well, no, I mean, look, I say jumping out of bed,

00:31SPEAKERbut really what I did was I grabbed my phone

00:32SPEAKERand I posted on Blue Sky that there was an earthquake

00:35SPEAKERso that I could be the first person.

00:36SPEAKERThat was the, that's the dream.

00:37SPEAKER- Yep, that's, yes, then Twitter or I guess now Blue Sky

00:41SPEAKERhas been my earthquake detection mechanism of record

00:44SPEAKERfor the last 10 plus years.

00:46SPEAKERI'm looking at a map, that is weird.

00:47SPEAKERThat earthquake was way closer to me than it was to you.

00:50SPEAKERLike it's really close to me.

00:52SPEAKER- Well, but I'm on the fault that it's on.

00:54SPEAKERThe fault that it rides on

00:56SPEAKERis a straight line down to my house.

00:57SPEAKERLike it was like, I'm trying to look at it,

01:00SPEAKERI'm eyeballing the scale here.

01:01SPEAKERThat was like not more than like two miles,

01:03SPEAKERtwo to three miles from me.

01:05SPEAKER- Yeah, no, it's close.

01:05SPEAKER- Like right off the coast of San Francisco.

01:07SPEAKERI don't know how I didn't feel that.

01:08SPEAKER- Yeah, no, you must've been, well, I mean,

01:09SPEAKERmaybe the liquefaction underneath your house

01:12SPEAKERserved as a nice shock absorber, you know?

01:14SPEAKER- Maybe, maybe this nice office chair

01:16SPEAKERwith these roller blade wheels on it

01:18SPEAKERis enough of a shock absorber that I just didn't notice.

01:20SPEAKER- Wait, were you in the office?

01:21SPEAKERI was still laying in bed at 704.

01:23SPEAKER- I was sitting, I was sitting here since five something.

01:26SPEAKERAnyway.

01:27SPEAKER- Wow, okay, that's too early.

01:29SPEAKERBut yeah, I haven't felt a good one in a while.

01:32SPEAKERAnd since it's fire season,

01:35SPEAKERshout outs, I guess, to everybody in LA.

01:37SPEAKERI hope everybody's safe.

01:38SPEAKERIt's fricking terrible.

01:40SPEAKER- It's like an apocalypse down there.

01:42SPEAKER- Yeah, it's real bad.

01:44SPEAKERBut yeah, fire, I always get nervous at fire season

01:47SPEAKER'cause it seems like when there's fires,

01:49SPEAKERthere's also earthquakes because, you know.

01:51SPEAKER- Crazy thing is I never considered this fire season.

01:53SPEAKER- No, this used to not be fire season.

01:55SPEAKERThis used to be rain season.

01:57SPEAKER- I mean, so I was talking to a friend of mine

01:59SPEAKERwho lives in LA who is thankfully

02:00SPEAKERnot affected by the fires yesterday.

02:03SPEAKERAnd they said that often if it's a dry winter,

02:09SPEAKERwhen the winds pick up like this,

02:10SPEAKER'cause the winds do pick up this time of year usually,

02:13SPEAKERthe winds are, like the thing that people I think

02:14SPEAKERdon't realize about California

02:15SPEAKERis there's always a bunch of little grass fires.

02:18SPEAKERAnd it's just that typically they get under,

02:21SPEAKERyou know, the fire departments are on top of it.

02:23SPEAKERLike we hear the fire departments

02:24SPEAKERdrive up to the hill behind our house fairly regularly

02:27SPEAKER'cause they get up there and they put out

02:28SPEAKERwhen there's a tiny fire or something.

02:31SPEAKERThe problem is that the winds were like 80 miles an hour

02:34SPEAKERdown there and so the tiny fire would blow a half mile away

02:38SPEAKERand start another fire and then--

02:40SPEAKER- Yeah, I read that the winds were such

02:42SPEAKERthat they couldn't do any of their aerial firefighting

02:44SPEAKERthat they would normally do.

02:45SPEAKER- Yeah, it's funny, the aerial stuff,

02:47SPEAKERlike I was always told before that the aerial stuff

02:52SPEAKERwas kind of just like for safety

02:54SPEAKERand to make people feel good.

02:55SPEAKERAnd this time it seems like it's really impactful.

02:57SPEAKERLike I saw them basically stop the line

03:00SPEAKERon the sunset fire the other night

03:02SPEAKERwith one of those aerial, one of those big, big giant,

03:06SPEAKERlike, hey, we're gonna land in some water

03:07SPEAKERand gulp up some water and then go fly

03:09SPEAKERand dump it on a plane, on a fire.

03:12SPEAKER- You know, I guess I've never considered the part,

03:15SPEAKERyeah, you know, I've seen those videos

03:16SPEAKERof them dumping large quantities of water on fires.

03:18SPEAKERI've never considered the part where they have to get

03:19SPEAKERall that water into the container.

03:21SPEAKER- Yeah.

03:22SPEAKER- And the image of them just like skimming a large reservoir

03:25SPEAKERjust grabbing it and going is kind of comical.

03:28SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't know, they're called super scoopers.

03:31SPEAKERI don't know if they, I assume,

03:34SPEAKERit says it's scooping up to 1600 gallons of ocean water.

03:39SPEAKER- Wait, it's ocean water?

03:40SPEAKER- It says ocean water.

03:41SPEAKER- I would have assumed that salt water

03:43SPEAKERwas maybe not the best thing.

03:44SPEAKEROf course, it's not like they're trying to grow crops

03:45SPEAKERin the places that they are dumping the water, I guess, but.

03:48SPEAKER- Yeah, I think, I assume it has to land.

03:50SPEAKERI assume it doesn't just, I assume it's not just,

03:54SPEAKERoh, hey, here's a video.

03:56SPEAKERThis is incredible.

03:57SPEAKEROkay, so this is the CL 415 super scooper.

04:01SPEAKERNow the Bombardier 415, I guess, the Canadair.

04:06SPEAKER- Yes.

04:07SPEAKER- 'Cause those apparently are all the same companies now,

04:10SPEAKERbut so it's a turboprop plane.

04:12SPEAKERIt lands on water.

04:13SPEAKERIt kind of goes, not like flying speeds,

04:17SPEAKERbut fastish and scoops up water from the water source.

04:21SPEAKERIt can mix it with chemical foam if desired.

04:24SPEAKERAnd then it can return to, it can go dump it on a fire

04:27SPEAKERwithout having to return to the base.

04:29SPEAKERAnd it's supposed to be for like quick response.

04:33SPEAKERI think the things I was thinking about

04:35SPEAKERwhen I said that they're not super effective

04:36SPEAKERare the ones that like, they fill up with the foam

04:39SPEAKERand then they have to go back to a base

04:40SPEAKERand refill with foam and then they come back out again.

04:43SPEAKERThis is crazy, this is, the refill time is 14 seconds,

04:47SPEAKERit says, for 1850 gallons.

04:50SPEAKER- It's a cool looking, it's a cool, the one I'm seeing

04:52SPEAKERis a cool looking red and yellow plane.

04:54SPEAKER- Yeah.

04:55SPEAKER- And also if you Google super scoopers

04:57SPEAKERand scroll down far enough,

04:58SPEAKERyou will leave behind the firefighting elements

05:01SPEAKERand get into a whole lot of dog waste stuff,

05:04SPEAKERwhich is a different type of super scooper.

05:07SPEAKER- Wow, I never used a super scooper when we had a dog.

05:10SPEAKERI just used my hand in a bag.

05:12SPEAKER- That's, well, that's a different kind

05:13SPEAKERof scooper altogether.

05:14SPEAKER- Yeah, just freehand it.

05:16SPEAKERBe like, I don't need a tool for that.

05:18SPEAKERI don't need to carry something.

05:19SPEAKERI just can't, I just pick up the, the nice thing is

05:20SPEAKERwhen it's cold outside, the poop is nice and warm.

05:23SPEAKER(upbeat music)

05:49SPEAKER(upbeat music)

05:51SPEAKER- Welcome to Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod.

05:54SPEAKERI'm Will.

05:55SPEAKER- I'm Brad.

05:55SPEAKER- Hello, good morning.

05:56SPEAKER- Hi, greetings.

05:59SPEAKER- So, Brad, the Consumer Electronics Show

06:01SPEAKERis happening this week.

06:02SPEAKER- That's right, it's the most wonderful time of the year.

06:04SPEAKERWait a minute, that was, that was last month, sorry.

06:06SPEAKER- Yeah, okay, hold on.

06:08SPEAKERFirst off, we put the bow on our holiday season

06:11SPEAKERon Wednesday this week.

06:13SPEAKER- Did you?

06:14SPEAKER- Yeah, we went over to the Oakland Zoo

06:16SPEAKERwhere they do this, they've done this thing

06:17SPEAKERfor the last like three or four years called Glowfari,

06:19SPEAKERwhich is they make up, they light up,

06:22SPEAKERthey open the zoo at night

06:23SPEAKERand they have a bunch of lit up animals

06:26SPEAKERand you should type Glowfari into Google

06:28SPEAKERand look at the pictures of the animals

06:29SPEAKER'cause it's not at all what I was expecting

06:30SPEAKERwhen Gina described this to me.

06:33SPEAKERThey basically have had artists make metal frames

06:37SPEAKERfor like life-size metal frames for all sorts of animals.

06:40SPEAKER- Wow, that's very cool looking.

06:42SPEAKER- Yeah, and then they wrap nylon,

06:44SPEAKERlike it feels like a stretchy nylon cloth over them

06:48SPEAKERthat's either painted or printed

06:50SPEAKERwith the animal prints or designs or whatever

06:52SPEAKERand they have, and so some of them are life-size,

06:55SPEAKERsome of them are bigger than life-size,

06:56SPEAKERsome of them are way bigger,

06:58SPEAKERlike they had bees that were terrifying,

07:01SPEAKERlike bees and ladybugs that were terrifying,

07:04SPEAKERthey were so big.

07:05SPEAKER- I see a T-Rex, they have a T-Rex.

07:08SPEAKER- Yeah, they have like, look when you go up,

07:09SPEAKERso at the Oakland Zoo you can write a gondola

07:11SPEAKERup to like a California area where the bears and stuff are,

07:15SPEAKERbut during Glofari, that's where the dinosaurs live.

07:18SPEAKERThey had a Dilophosaurus.

07:19SPEAKERThey're mostly, I'm gonna go ahead and tell you,

07:22SPEAKERthey're mostly Jurassic Park-style dinosaurs,

07:24SPEAKERnot real dinosaurs, but you know,

07:26SPEAKERlike look, it's pretty cool.

07:29SPEAKERIf you have kids, it sells out almost immediately every year

07:33SPEAKERand I think it goes through the end of January,

07:35SPEAKERmiddle of January or something, but it's pretty cool.

07:37SPEAKERIt's not like holiday-themed or anything.

07:38SPEAKERThey had a life-sized barn, like with life-sized cows

07:41SPEAKERand pigs and sheep and horses

07:45SPEAKERand all sorts of stuff in there.

07:46SPEAKER- There's a picture of a giant cobra

07:48SPEAKERwhere the tail is forming like a tunnel,

07:50SPEAKERkind of like loops of the tail,

07:51SPEAKERor this, these things are like shockingly detailed

07:53SPEAKERand realistic, this actually looks very cool.

07:55SPEAKER- They're really big, it's a really, really neat art,

07:58SPEAKERso if you're in the Bay Area, I highly recommend it.

07:59SPEAKERIt's definitely, like we bought tickets

08:02SPEAKER'cause Gina's wanted to go

08:04SPEAKERand I think both the kiddo and I were like,

08:06SPEAKERoh, we'll spend like an hour here

08:07SPEAKERand then we'll go get some food or something, someplace,

08:09SPEAKERand we ended up staying until they closed.

08:11SPEAKERIt was really fun, so highly recommend it.

08:13SPEAKER- All right, Glow Fari.

08:15SPEAKER- Glow Fari, I think it's already sold out for this year,

08:17SPEAKERbut put it on your calendar for next year, so.

08:19SPEAKER- But, you know what's not sold out?

08:21SPEAKER- I think it sold out years ago, Brad.

08:24SPEAKER- Yeah, okay, that's fair.

08:25SPEAKERThat's extreme, looking at the offering this year,

08:28SPEAKERthe number of AI-powered dryers

08:31SPEAKERand washing machines and fridges and stuff,

08:33SPEAKERyou might be right.

08:34SPEAKER- Look, I hate to say it,

08:36SPEAKERI really like our internet-connected

08:38SPEAKERwashing machine and dryer,

08:39SPEAKERbut that's mainly because they live in our garage,

08:42SPEAKERso we can't hear the buzzer from inside the house.

08:45SPEAKER- Well, what if you had machine learning

08:47SPEAKERcustomizing your spin cycle?

08:49SPEAKER- No, I'm good.

08:50SPEAKERI don't need that, that seems useless.

08:52SPEAKERI saw, okay, so we're gonna talk about CES.

08:55SPEAKERThere's some computer stuff that was announced

08:57SPEAKERthat was interesting.

08:59SPEAKERKind of no phone stuff that I saw this year at all.

09:01SPEAKER- Yeah, I didn't see, even in the realm of the weird,

09:05SPEAKERI didn't see a quad-folding phone or anything.

09:08SPEAKER- No.

09:09SPEAKER- Any bizarre, not-ready-for-the-market

09:11SPEAKERkind of weird off-ball tech.

09:13SPEAKER- No, like OLED pullouts or anything like that.

09:16SPEAKERLet's see, there is a lot of weird

09:18SPEAKERconsumer electronic stuff.

09:19SPEAKERWe're not gonna get it.

09:21SPEAKERI saw digital robot lawnmowers.

09:24SPEAKERIt seems like robots are doing more,

09:27SPEAKERbut I don't know enough about what's going on with robots

09:29SPEAKERto intelligently talk about it,

09:30SPEAKERso we're looking at computer stuff instead.

09:32SPEAKER- Yeah, yes, we're here with the hard product news.

09:34SPEAKERWatching that Nvidia keynote, though,

09:36SPEAKERit feels like robotics is going to be a thing,

09:38SPEAKERlike we're getting there, but we're not there there.

09:40SPEAKERI'm gonna say like five years from now,

09:43SPEAKERI bet CES is gonna be rotten with robots.

09:45SPEAKER- I mean, I think, so it looked like CES

09:48SPEAKERwas pretty rotten with robots this year,

09:49SPEAKERbut whether they're robots you're actually gonna buy

09:51SPEAKERor just look at at a trade show and go,

09:52SPEAKER"Oh, that's kind of neat."

09:54SPEAKER- Well, that's what I mean.

09:55SPEAKERWe're gonna hit the critical mass

09:56SPEAKERwhere products are gonna start coming out,

09:57SPEAKERand you're gonna start seeing things out.

10:01SPEAKEROkay, let me put it this way.

10:02SPEAKERIn the same way that I am seeing Waymo's

10:04SPEAKERand apparently it's Zooks, not Zooks.

10:07SPEAKER- Yeah, they said Zook when Jensen said Zook.

10:10SPEAKER- Anyway, the same way that I am seeing Waymo's

10:12SPEAKERand Zooks is just on the road everywhere now,

10:14SPEAKERlike those are automated cars to be clear without drivers.

10:17SPEAKER- Robot cars, some might say.

10:19SPEAKER- What I mean is like we're gonna go

10:20SPEAKERfrom seeing robots on stages at keynotes

10:22SPEAKERto just like you're gonna walk out your door someday

10:24SPEAKERand be like, "Oh, that's a robot."

10:27SPEAKER- I was talking to a friend who works with robot.

10:29SPEAKERHe does machine vision and robot stuff,

10:31SPEAKERand he was like, "Look, we're a little bit off right now,

10:34SPEAKERbut in a few years, you're gonna be able to buy a robot

10:37SPEAKERthat'll fold all your clothes.

10:38SPEAKERLike you don't just put a pile of clothes next to it

10:40SPEAKERand it folds them all up for you,

10:41SPEAKERand then you just have to jam them in your drawer."

10:44SPEAKER- It's kind of alarming, maybe, a little bit.

10:47SPEAKER- Look, I'm gonna go ahead and tell you,

10:49SPEAKERI am, of all the household chores that I don't like,

10:54SPEAKERthe folding of the clothes is the one

10:55SPEAKERthat I would pay a robot to do for me.

10:57SPEAKER- Oh, extreme, I'm the same way.

10:59SPEAKERI don't know why I hate putting things up.

11:01SPEAKERI prefer, like, if I had my choice,

11:03SPEAKERif I could either choose to load the dishwasher

11:05SPEAKERor empty the dishwasher, wash the clothes,

11:08SPEAKERor fold and put away the clothes,

11:09SPEAKERI'm always picking the front end one.

11:11SPEAKERI'm always picking the take all the dirty stuff

11:13SPEAKERand shovel it in and run a thing.

11:15SPEAKER- So I like unloading the dishwasher,

11:18SPEAKERbut only if I loaded it?

11:20SPEAKER- Sure, okay, yes. - Because I segregate

11:22SPEAKERall my silverware so I can just grab

11:23SPEAKERa whole pile of silverware at once

11:25SPEAKERand then put it in the slot.

11:26SPEAKER- I have started, when I load the dishwasher,

11:27SPEAKERI've started stacking the little small saucers

11:30SPEAKERin the right order so that I can just, like,

11:32SPEAKERgrab all of them in my hands

11:33SPEAKERwhen they're already in the right stack.

11:34SPEAKER- Yep, I wanna palm, I wanna palm, like,

11:36SPEAKERfive dishes and get 'em right up on the shelf and...

11:39SPEAKERYeah, but anyway, not yet, we're not there yet.

11:43SPEAKERI hate folding clothes, though,

11:44SPEAKERso please give me a close folding robot internet.

11:46SPEAKER- Well, okay, I don't wanna close folding.

11:48SPEAKERI don't think I will ever want a robot

11:50SPEAKERto do household chores, but...

11:51SPEAKER- You say that now. - We'll see.

11:54SPEAKER- Well, when you come over to my house

11:55SPEAKERand I'm like, "Hey, check this shit out,"

11:56SPEAKERand I just take a nicely folded pile of clothes

11:59SPEAKERand I unfold 'em and chuck 'em in front of the robot,

12:01SPEAKERit's like, "Thank you, sir, may I please have another,"

12:03SPEAKERand then folds my clothes.

12:05SPEAKER- What about when that robot turns on you?

12:07SPEAKER- Well, if it doesn't have legs,

12:08SPEAKERas long as I'm not in the close folding range, it'll be fine.

12:12SPEAKERIt's just a circle that we don't go into anymore

12:14SPEAKERin the house.

12:16SPEAKEROkay, so let's talk about the stuff

12:19SPEAKERthat was actually interesting.

12:21SPEAKEROddly, there was a period of time there

12:23SPEAKERwhere CES was a place where nothing got announced

12:24SPEAKERand nothing interesting happened

12:25SPEAKERexcept for maybe some laptops and TVs.

12:28SPEAKERThis year, Nvidia launched new GPUs.

12:32SPEAKERAMD has released two fastest CPUs

12:36SPEAKERthat you can probably buy on the market right now.

12:39SPEAKERWell, not yet, but March.

12:40SPEAKER- Or at least for games. - For games, yeah.

12:42SPEAKERFor games and creation, actually.

12:44SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, that was the one place

12:47SPEAKERwhere Aero Lake really was competitive,

12:50SPEAKERwas in productivity stuff, but for games, absolutely.

12:54SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm excited to test those new,

12:56SPEAKERwell, we'll talk about it,

12:57SPEAKERbut I'm excited to test those new CPUs

12:58SPEAKER'cause both Intel and AMD have had some pretty significant

13:01SPEAKERperformance gains since the initial reviews ran out.

13:05SPEAKERSo we'll see what's changed

13:06SPEAKERwhen we rerun all the benchmarks and all this stuff.

13:10SPEAKERThere's new specs and then, oh,

13:15SPEAKERSteamOS news and a whole bunch of weird stuff.

13:18SPEAKERSo you're gonna start with Nvidia?

13:20SPEAKERI think that's the big one.

13:21SPEAKER- Sure, yeah, that seems like,

13:22SPEAKERwell, yeah, we should start with Nvidia.

13:23SPEAKERI mean, it feels like the thing that has at this point

13:25SPEAKERwhere four days since the keynote,

13:27SPEAKERit feels like the thing that has already been discussed

13:29SPEAKERto death this week, but it's also probably the biggest news.

13:32SPEAKERSo yeah, we should start with that.

13:34SPEAKER- Yeah, and we're not gonna spend too much time on it

13:36SPEAKER'cause we'll probably do a full episode at some point

13:39SPEAKERwhen we have had some hands-on time with the cards.

13:41SPEAKER'Cause a lot of the stuff that they've talked about,

13:43SPEAKERI wanna see in person before I make judgments on, right?

13:47SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm trying to decide what is the biggest story here.

13:50SPEAKERI think that, obviously, the biggest story for most people

13:52SPEAKERis the pricing, but there's also,

13:54SPEAKERyou have to discuss the pricing on multiple axes

13:57SPEAKERbecause there's also the relative performance gain

14:00SPEAKERover the last generation, and how are they making up

14:03SPEAKERwhat is frankly not a huge raw performance uplift

14:06SPEAKERwith AI features?

14:07SPEAKERAnd the prices are great for people who are upgrading

14:10SPEAKERfrom two generations ago or more,

14:12SPEAKERbut if you're already on a 40 series, like I do.

14:15SPEAKER- Maybe the prices are great.

14:17SPEAKERI mean, they announced five series graphics cards,

14:23SPEAKER50/70, 50/70 TI, 50/80, and 50/90.

14:27SPEAKERAs expected, the 50/90 is about two grand.

14:30SPEAKERIt's 32 gigabytes of GDDR7.

14:32SPEAKERThe 50/80 is one grand, is 16 gigabytes of GDDR7.

14:37SPEAKERThat gap in performance and shader core and compute cores

14:40SPEAKERand all that stuff is basically telling me

14:43SPEAKERthat they're saying, "Hey, if you play games,

14:45SPEAKER"the 50/80 is probably the card for you

14:47SPEAKER"even if you play at 4K."

14:49SPEAKERAnd the 32 gigs of RAM versus 16 gigs of RAM is saying,

14:52SPEAKER"Hey, this one is for people

14:54SPEAKER"who are doing compute stuff for AI stuff."

14:56SPEAKER- It's like a workstation.

14:57SPEAKERI mean, that's been the case for the last two 90s as well.

15:00SPEAKERIt's kind of mainly a workstation card

15:02SPEAKERor a games card if you're dedicated.

15:04SPEAKER- Yeah, it's a Titan by any other name, right?

15:06SPEAKER- Yeah, yes.

15:07SPEAKER- This is Titan was their old workstation line

15:09SPEAKERfor a long time, and then they just made it

15:11SPEAKERpart of the main series.

15:13SPEAKERThe 50/70 TI is 16 gigs of GDDR7 and is 750 bucks,

15:17SPEAKERand the 50/70 Vanilla is 12 gigs of GDDR7 and 550 bucks,

15:22SPEAKERwhich means, hey guys, the eight gig problem is gone

15:26SPEAKER'cause that was a thing.

15:27SPEAKERPeople were upset about the four series eight gig cards,

15:32SPEAKERkind of rightly so.

15:33SPEAKER- I'm not gonna say they're much happier

15:35SPEAKERabout the 12 and 16 though.

15:36SPEAKERI feel like, I mean, they're less irate,

15:38SPEAKERbut I feel like the general sentiment

15:40SPEAKERis that these are the bare minimum of what you need.

15:44SPEAKER- Well, my feeling is that if you're hitting the,

15:49SPEAKERenough frame buffer, enough RAM to run at 1440p

15:53SPEAKERon that kind of card, you're probably okay, right?

15:55SPEAKERAnd the problem with the eight gig cards

15:57SPEAKERwas that they were not, they were fast enough to run 1440p,

16:00SPEAKERbut the RAM configuration was holding them back.

16:04SPEAKER- As far as the prices go though,

16:05SPEAKERlike generation over generation, these are great

16:07SPEAKERbecause if you look at each one of these models

16:09SPEAKERcompared to the last generation is a substantial decrease.

16:12SPEAKERLike the 4080 launched at 1200 versus 1000 here.

16:15SPEAKER- So the thing is they're at the prices

16:18SPEAKERthat they ended up at after the super and TI refreshes.

16:22SPEAKER- Yeah, right, yes, that's right.

16:23SPEAKERThey had that kind of mid gen production last time.

16:26SPEAKERBut people like the rumors were,

16:28SPEAKERthe rumors were pegging the 5090 at 2500.

16:30SPEAKERLike people were really worried

16:31SPEAKERthat these were gonna like increase over the last gen.

16:33SPEAKERSo like-

16:34SPEAKER- Well, wait until tariffs land.

16:36SPEAKERYeah, we'll see, let's see where we end up.

16:37SPEAKER- Oh, sure.

16:39SPEAKER- The CEA, the Consumer Electronics Association

16:42SPEAKERsaid that we could expect enormous cost increases

16:45SPEAKERon certain parts based on tariff stuff.

16:48SPEAKERThat actually happens.

16:49SPEAKERSo anyway, but I think the interesting thing to me

16:52SPEAKERis that with the exception of the compute cores

16:56SPEAKERand the AI stuff, it's a pretty modest perf increase.

17:00SPEAKERThey didn't give a lot of raw numbers

17:02SPEAKERon the press conference.

17:03SPEAKERAnd I think the embargo is still live

17:06SPEAKERon the editor's day that they had,

17:08SPEAKERjudging by the stuff people were posting yesterday.

17:12SPEAKERBut it looks like,

17:13SPEAKERso we don't know what the actual baseline frame rates were.

17:16SPEAKERSo they were comparing four series, same card

17:19SPEAKERto five series, same card on their charts.

17:22SPEAKERAnd then they were doing a multiplier of 1X, 2X, 3X.

17:25SPEAKERAnd with all of their new bells and whistles turned on,

17:29SPEAKERthey were seeing 2X plus performance increases

17:32SPEAKERacross the board.

17:34SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean-

17:34SPEAKER- Asterisk.

17:36SPEAKER- Yes, yes.

17:36SPEAKERLike I streamed that keynote with you

17:38SPEAKERand I will confess to like getting kind of taken in

17:42SPEAKERwhen he came out with the first comparison,

17:45SPEAKERlike when he first unveiled the first card,

17:46SPEAKERhe was like, "The 5070 is twice as fast as the 4090."

17:49SPEAKERAnd I was like, "Wow."

17:51SPEAKER- That sounds really good, Brad.

17:53SPEAKER- And they did not put an asterisk on their slide,

17:55SPEAKERbut there is a massive one, which is,

17:56SPEAKER"Hey, you need like all of the DLSS4 features enabled

18:00SPEAKERin order to get those kinds of numbers.

18:01SPEAKERAnd are those features all going to be palatable to you?"

18:04SPEAKERTBD.

18:05SPEAKER- Yeah, so the thing that became clear is they showed,

18:08SPEAKERlet's see, Far Cry 6 was one of the numbers they gave,

18:11SPEAKERwhich looked like about a 25 or 30% uplift without DLSS.

18:15SPEAKERIt's not a DLSS game.

18:16SPEAKERAnd they were just showing with ray tracing on.

18:18SPEAKER- From the same equivalent last gen card, you mean?

18:20SPEAKER- From the same equivalent last gen card.

18:22SPEAKER- So it's like from a 4070 to a 5070, I mean 20 to 30%.

18:26SPEAKER- Yeah, and I'm saying 20 to 30%,

18:29SPEAKERbecause literally I were eyeballing the height

18:31SPEAKERof the pixels on the bar 'cause there were no gradations.

18:34SPEAKER- Right.

18:35SPEAKER- The AI stuff that we're talking about here

18:38SPEAKERis the DLSS4 feature set,

18:40SPEAKERwhich there's a whole bunch of stuff in there.

18:43SPEAKERSome of it is part of DLSS4.

18:44SPEAKERSome of it is just stuff that they're doing

18:46SPEAKERoutside of DLSS, I believe.

18:49SPEAKERBut the big thing to me was multi-frame frame gem.

18:55SPEAKERSo they take one rendered frame

18:56SPEAKERand then they extrapolate out the next three frames

18:58SPEAKERusing the machine learning stuff.

19:00SPEAKERAnd they pair that with a new version of NVIDIA Reflex

19:06SPEAKERthat reduces latency in each frame by 75%.

19:10SPEAKERBy doing some like last second perspective warping,

19:12SPEAKERalmost like we did with VR stuff.

19:14SPEAKERBut then they're filling in the unrendered pixels

19:19SPEAKERwith more machine learning, so.

19:21SPEAKER- Yeah, so like, I mean, if you're used to frame generation

19:23SPEAKERon the 4D cards, this is that, but more to be clear.

19:26SPEAKER- Well, the 75% latency reduction would solve

19:29SPEAKERmost of my problems with frame gen on the NVIDIA cards,

19:32SPEAKERI think.

19:33SPEAKER- I can't, well, I can't remember where I read this.

19:35SPEAKERIt might've been Digital Foundry.

19:36SPEAKERLike I said, this is all tentative.

19:38SPEAKERLike this is what everybody is, for the most part,

19:40SPEAKEReverybody is just speculating

19:41SPEAKERbased on the limited information NVIDIA put out.

19:43SPEAKERSo like all of this could change,

19:44SPEAKERbut I think it was Dia for somebody in that category

19:47SPEAKERwho was basically saying like,

19:48SPEAKEReven with the latency reductions,

19:50SPEAKERthere's still overall going to be a tiny increase

19:54SPEAKERin latency with this new multi-frame gen over.

19:57SPEAKERThe point is, if you already didn't like the latency

19:59SPEAKERin single frame gen,

20:00SPEAKERI don't think this is going to change your mind.

20:03SPEAKER- I mean, this is firmly in the category

20:06SPEAKERof things I wanna see.

20:08SPEAKER- Yeah.

20:09SPEAKER- I'm highly skeptical.

20:10SPEAKER- You can't, oddly, you can't benchmark this really

20:15SPEAKERbecause there's no, because it's about,

20:19SPEAKERon the 4090, it's like floatiness.

20:21SPEAKERSo weirdly, when I played frame gen games

20:24SPEAKERthat I turned on frame gen and played with the controller,

20:26SPEAKERI was fine.

20:27SPEAKERWhen I played the same games with the mouse and keyboard,

20:29SPEAKERI wasn't, because the one-to-one motion,

20:32SPEAKERand I think it's because the acceleration of the sticks

20:35SPEAKERas you get closer to the edges masks the floatiness.

20:38SPEAKER- Yeah, I could see that.

20:39SPEAKER- And on the mouse, you don't have anything,

20:41SPEAKERthere's nothing between you

20:42SPEAKERand the pixel-to-pixel movement.

20:44SPEAKER- Right.

20:45SPEAKER- So anyway, yeah, I wanna see what it feels like

20:47SPEAKERwith the mouse and keyboard.

20:48SPEAKERThat's gonna be my test, I think, for this.

20:50SPEAKER- Right.

20:52SPEAKER- And all of their performance claims,

20:55SPEAKERbeing a 2X faster part,

20:57SPEAKERare based on using multi-framed frame gen on DLSS4,

21:02SPEAKERwhich just to be clear,

21:03SPEAKERa fairly limited number of titles

21:05SPEAKERare gonna support at launch.

21:06SPEAKERI think it was like 50, which is a, it's a big number

21:08SPEAKERfor a new API, but it's not, you know, it's not,

21:12SPEAKERyou're not gonna play your five-year-old game

21:13SPEAKERand get frame gen there, four-frame frame gen.

21:17SPEAKER- Yeah, I think they said 75 games,

21:19SPEAKERbut like, what subset of the features

21:22SPEAKERare each of those games gonna use?

21:23SPEAKERTBD, like probably not the whole battery?

21:25SPEAKER- My guess, well, okay, so the other thing about DLSS4

21:28SPEAKERis most of it is backwards compatible with four series cards

21:32SPEAKERexcept for the multi-frame frame gen stuff.

21:34SPEAKER- Right, so not only are you not looking

21:37SPEAKERat a massive raw performance uplift,

21:41SPEAKERalso you're getting almost all the features

21:42SPEAKERexcept for the multi-frame gen,

21:43SPEAKERwhich maybe is suspect to begin with

21:45SPEAKERif you've got a 40 card, so like the impetus to upgrade

21:48SPEAKERif you're on the previous gen is pretty small, it seems like.

21:52SPEAKERBut again, with these prices,

21:53SPEAKERif you're on a 30 or even especially like a 20 card,

21:56SPEAKERwow, this is pretty good news.

21:58SPEAKER- Yeah, I think the big thing is,

22:03SPEAKERhey, we've got upgrades, like it's,

22:06SPEAKERif you've been waiting to see what happens

22:07SPEAKERafter the four series now,

22:09SPEAKERhey, your time is there if you're on the high end.

22:11SPEAKER- Totally.

22:12SPEAKER- I mean, the last thing that's worth mentioning

22:15SPEAKERis that the other big difference between the 5080

22:17SPEAKERand the 5090 is that the memory bus bandwidth

22:20SPEAKERis way, way, way, it's a double width memory bus on the 5090.

22:26SPEAKERSo that means you're transferring twice as much data

22:29SPEAKERper clock cycle on the big card

22:31SPEAKERas you are on the second biggest card.

22:33SPEAKERSo it goes from 256 bits to 512 bits.

22:37SPEAKER- Yeah, it's kind of, it's a little bit of a bummer to me

22:39SPEAKERthat I believe it was the case

22:40SPEAKERthat the 4080 was faster than 3090.

22:43SPEAKERI was kind of hoping that would be the case again here.

22:46SPEAKERBut that was basically the case

22:48SPEAKERand they did not achieve that this time

22:50SPEAKERand that's kind of sad, but anyway.

22:52SPEAKER- I think it will be the case

22:53SPEAKERif you turn on all the DLSS4 features, Brad.

22:55SPEAKER- It will, but yes.

22:58SPEAKER- Yeah, the other big jump is the number of tensor,

23:02SPEAKERof ray tracing cores.

23:03SPEAKERSo it goes from 171 to 318,

23:06SPEAKERwhich is where your AI math happens.

23:09SPEAKERAnyway, so that's it for Nvidia pretty much.

23:11SPEAKERThey also released a small or announced a small,

23:15SPEAKERI think it's a DGX, is that what they're?

23:17SPEAKER- DGX1 was the name of that rack-mounted AI crunching,

23:22SPEAKERI don't know, not even a workstation, right?

23:23SPEAKERKind of like a server node, I guess.

23:25SPEAKER- It's like a thing you put in your rack

23:26SPEAKERand then you log into remotely and have it to,

23:29SPEAKERlike you can do training and stuff on it

23:31SPEAKERif you're doing machine learning stuff.

23:34SPEAKER- Yeah, so they announced Project Digits,

23:35SPEAKERwhich is basically an Apple, not Apple team,

23:38SPEAKERmore like a Mac mini, sorry,

23:39SPEAKERlike Mac mini form factor style version of that.

23:41SPEAKERI don't know, I mean, did they come out and say,

23:43SPEAKER"Hey, this equals the same performance,"

23:46SPEAKERor were they just saying it's in the ballpark?

23:49SPEAKER- I went back and watched that part of the keynote again,

23:51SPEAKER'cause we talked about that at the time.

23:53SPEAKERThere were no performance claims as part of that.

23:57SPEAKERLike, he didn't say it's the same,

23:59SPEAKERhe implied strongly that it was equivalent

24:01SPEAKERto the rack-mounted DGX1, or whichever one they showed,

24:04SPEAKERI don't know enough about those to identify them visually.

24:07SPEAKER- Yeah, granted that rack-mounted thing is years old,

24:10SPEAKERso I guess it's conceivable that they would be able

24:12SPEAKERto equal that in a tiny form factor at this point.

24:14SPEAKER- Yeah, I think the DGX1 was-

24:17SPEAKER- Like mid last decade, I wanna say.

24:19SPEAKER- It's Pascal.

24:21SPEAKER- So that would be 2080, is that right?

24:25SPEAKER- Pascal was a 1080.

24:27SPEAKER- 1080, yeah.

24:28SPEAKER- So yeah, that actually is pretty conceivable.

24:30SPEAKERI mean, this is ARM-based, but actually,

24:32SPEAKERlike I don't really care about the AI research stuff,

24:35SPEAKERlike it is what it is.

24:36SPEAKERThis thing's $3,000 by the way, so like it runs Linux,

24:39SPEAKERyou're gonna pay $3,000 and use it for like AI research

24:41SPEAKERand compute and development stuff,

24:43SPEAKERlike that's what it's for.

24:44SPEAKERThe thing that's really interesting about it to me

24:46SPEAKERis their talk about the CPU in it.

24:50SPEAKERFirst of all, watching this presentation

24:53SPEAKERmade me finally understand what GRACE is

24:55SPEAKERin the NVIDIA parlance,

24:57SPEAKERwhich is that it's the CPU part of this hardware.

25:00SPEAKER- Oh.

25:00SPEAKER- Because if you've looked at their recent past

25:02SPEAKERlike data center AI stuff,

25:03SPEAKERyou've seen Grace Hopper as a term.

25:05SPEAKER- Yeah, well, they have a bunch of ARM cores

25:08SPEAKERembedded in the chip.

25:10SPEAKER- So that's the thing,

25:11SPEAKERlike this is what made me understand that finally,

25:13SPEAKERbecause I believe this is Grace Blackwell now, right?

25:15SPEAKERAnd so I had assumed Grace Hopper was a single product name,

25:19SPEAKERbut in fact, that's basically the CPU

25:21SPEAKERplus the GPU/AI computer data center stuff.

25:25SPEAKER- That makes sense, yeah.

25:26SPEAKER- And so basically what all this seems like

25:30SPEAKERit's a prelude to is that they are probably

25:32SPEAKERgoing to start making their own ARM CPUs at some point soon,

25:35SPEAKERor they kind of are now with this,

25:37SPEAKERbut you talked about it on the presentation,

25:38SPEAKERthey are making the GRACE part of it,

25:40SPEAKERthe ARM core part of it, the CPU with,

25:43SPEAKERin conjunction with MediaTek,

25:45SPEAKERwhich is a company that like mostly,

25:47SPEAKERlike my TV has a MediaTek ARM CPU in it,

25:50SPEAKERlike you mostly, MediaTek may be way bigger than I realize,

25:54SPEAKERbut like I mostly see them referenced in like embedded,

25:57SPEAKERembedded ARM CPU applications.

26:00SPEAKERIt just, it's an interesting,

26:03SPEAKERit's an interesting like post-script to the failure

26:05SPEAKERof the ARM acquisition on NVIDIA's part, right?

26:07SPEAKERLike if things had gone differently in an antitrust sense,

26:10SPEAKERthey would own ARM at this point,

26:12SPEAKERand of course they would be doing

26:13SPEAKERall kinds of crazy stuff like this,

26:15SPEAKERbut since that fell through,

26:16SPEAKERthis seems like what they have landed on

26:18SPEAKERis to elaborate with an existing CPU maker,

26:21SPEAKERbut I don't know where that stuff's going to go,

26:23SPEAKERbut like there are,

26:25SPEAKERthere've been rumors floating around this week

26:27SPEAKERcoming out of the show that NVIDIA may be looking

26:28SPEAKERto get into the ARM,

26:31SPEAKERlike the Windows on ARM space and that sort of thing.

26:33SPEAKER- Well, I mean, they had, they had,

26:35SPEAKERthey were leaders there and then they backed out of it

26:37SPEAKER'cause all the shield stuff that they did was ARM,

26:40SPEAKERthey were running Android on ARM.

26:41SPEAKER- Yeah, like, and you know,

26:42SPEAKERthe switch famously is on a T-row that is ARM-based.

26:47SPEAKERSo who knows where that stuff's going to go with them.

26:50SPEAKER- Yeah, MediaTek, just for the record, huge.

26:52SPEAKERThey ship billions of chips every year.

26:55SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, like they're one of those companies

26:57SPEAKERthat like makes the stuff you've never heard of

26:59SPEAKERand that is in literally everything.

27:02SPEAKER- Should we talk about AMD a little bit?

27:04SPEAKER- Yeah, it doesn't seem like there's a ton to talk about.

27:06SPEAKER- So they rolled out dual CCD, X3D,

27:09SPEAKERVcash chips was the big thing.

27:12SPEAKERThe 16 core, the new version of the thing I had last year.

27:16SPEAKER- The 12 and 16 core, still only Vcash on one of the CCDs.

27:22SPEAKERThe CCDs are the compute dies.

27:23SPEAKERSo either six or eight cores.

27:25SPEAKERThey're both clocked the same this time,

27:27SPEAKERwhich I think is new.

27:28SPEAKER- Wait, both CCDs are clocked the same?

27:30SPEAKER- No, no, no, no.

27:31SPEAKERBoth the 16, the 12 and the 16 core versions

27:34SPEAKERare both clocked the same.

27:36SPEAKER- Got it, 'cause the thing that happens on these split CCD

27:38SPEAKERwith Vcash on one thing is that you can run

27:40SPEAKERthe non-VCash die at a higher clock.

27:43SPEAKER- Yeah, and that's still the case,

27:44SPEAKERbut apparently the gap is a little bit narrower

27:47SPEAKERbecause this time the Vcash is on the other side of the chip

27:53SPEAKERso you can call the Vcached chip more effectively.

27:56SPEAKERThey didn't announce pricing yet,

27:58SPEAKERbut it had March release, so that's coming.

28:01SPEAKERThey build them as the world's best content creation

28:04SPEAKERand gaming processors.

28:06SPEAKER- I mean, that's probably legitimate.

28:07SPEAKERLike the 9800 X3D is the best gaming CPU kind of bar none

28:11SPEAKERout there right now.

28:12SPEAKERSo that, but double the cores,

28:17SPEAKERthat's probably a legitimate claim.

28:19SPEAKERI wonder how they'll work though, you know,

28:21SPEAKERlike I guess this is their second stab

28:23SPEAKERat this split CCD thing now.

28:25SPEAKERSo hopefully the scheduling in Windows continues to improve

28:30SPEAKERto work better on those things.

28:31SPEAKERI never, I honestly, in the, let's see,

28:35SPEAKERhow long did I have that thing?

28:36SPEAKER- Six or eight months.

28:37SPEAKER- Yeah, it was like kind of April to November,

28:40SPEAKERI think is how long I use that thing.

28:41SPEAKERI never really had issues with it.

28:43SPEAKERLike with the core parking, you know, with the,

28:45SPEAKERwe're going to turn off half the cores

28:46SPEAKERwhile you play a game thing.

28:47SPEAKERWe got to make sure all the threads stay on the same CCD

28:50SPEAKERor you'll get micro stuttering.

28:51SPEAKERLike I don't remember really ever having issues with that,

28:54SPEAKERbut I know some people have.

28:55SPEAKER- The Windows scheduler has seen

28:57SPEAKERsome pretty significant improvements.

28:58SPEAKERI know that the changes that came out last year

29:01SPEAKERhad an impact on the dual CCD parts too.

29:04SPEAKERIf you're brave enough to install 24H2,

29:07SPEAKERthen hopefully I guess you'll get those improvements,

29:09SPEAKEReven though it'll ruin the rest

29:11SPEAKERof your Windows install, apparently.

29:13SPEAKER- Well, I've been running, it's fine.

29:14SPEAKER- Yeah, it's situational.

29:16SPEAKERVinny is having all kinds of problems.

29:18SPEAKERAnd also like you see like stories,

29:20SPEAKERlike every couple of weeks, I think at this point,

29:23SPEAKERlike Canon just put out a story

29:24SPEAKERor just put out a note last week, I think,

29:27SPEAKERthat like most of their printers are having issues on 24H2.

29:30SPEAKERIt's just, it broke a lot of stuff.

29:32SPEAKERIt seems like it's not, obviously not universal.

29:35SPEAKERNot everybody has problems with any one thing,

29:38SPEAKERbut a lot of people are having problems with 24H2.

29:40SPEAKER- Yeah, when you install, but anyway, anyway.

29:43SPEAKERNo Radeon announcements, oddly, but speaking of the X3D,

29:48SPEAKERFrank Azor addressed the 9800 X3D shortages.

29:54SPEAKERAnd this is a direct quote.

29:55SPEAKER- I saw this quote going around last night.

29:57SPEAKER- It's my favorite quote of the year so far.

29:59SPEAKER- I didn't see who this was attributed to.

30:01SPEAKERThis seems like a little bit much, but go on.

30:03SPEAKER- Put it this way.

30:05SPEAKERWe knew we had built a great part.

30:07SPEAKERWe didn't know the competitor had built such a horrible one.

30:10SPEAKERSo the demand has been a little bit higher

30:12SPEAKERthan we originally forecasted.

30:13SPEAKER- That's, look, I guess he, well,

30:18SPEAKERI started to say he's not wrong, but I think he kind of is.

30:20SPEAKERLike, I mean, was he talking about Arrow Lake here?

30:21SPEAKERHe's not talking about the emulating.

30:23SPEAKER- Yeah, he's talking about Arrow Lake.

30:24SPEAKERHe's talking about 285.

30:26SPEAKER- Like Arrow Lake is not,

30:27SPEAKERI would not say horrible in an absolute sense.

30:29SPEAKERI mean, yes, it is not, it is lackluster.

30:31SPEAKERIt is disappointing, but like if you buy one

30:34SPEAKERand play games on it, are you going to be okay?

30:36SPEAKERLike, yes.

30:38SPEAKER- Hey, Brad, you know what CPUs Nvidia used

30:42SPEAKERfor their Blackwell benchmarks?

30:44SPEAKER- What CPUs did they use?

30:45SPEAKER- They used the 9800X3D for gaming benchmarks

30:48SPEAKERand the 14900K for creation benchmarks.

30:51SPEAKER- Yes, like I did slower than last gen on any axis

30:55SPEAKERis not good.

30:56SPEAKERI'm not gonna lie, but horrible implies like it's broken

31:00SPEAKERor doesn't work right.

31:02SPEAKER- Well, but I think they didn't expect to own 100%

31:04SPEAKERof the gamer market is the thing.

31:06SPEAKER- That's fine, that's fine.

31:06SPEAKERI just like, look, AMD's making a lot of great stuff.

31:09SPEAKERThis is a bit lacking in class to be perfectly honest.

31:14SPEAKERLike kind of, look, there's a certain high road

31:18SPEAKERyou can take while you're on top and both be on top

31:22SPEAKERand also look like you deserve to be on top.

31:24SPEAKER- Yeah, look, no matter how good their parts are,

31:27SPEAKERAMD is still going to be the scrappy underdog

31:29SPEAKERfor a good 10 years.

31:31SPEAKER- But also I'm just, I'm thinking back to like early Ryzen

31:33SPEAKERor even pre-Rison particularly,

31:35SPEAKERlike AMD was in the toilet and you'd think there would maybe

31:39SPEAKERbe a little more institutional humility leftover

31:41SPEAKERfrom that period, but anyway.

31:43SPEAKER- Man, I don't know, having lived through this in the past,

31:45SPEAKERI'm all for them taking the knife when they can, right?

31:50SPEAKERLike it's, they're much smaller, anyway, yeah, it's-

31:55SPEAKER- I don't know, maybe Intel engaged in similar mud slinging

31:58SPEAKERin the past, you tell me, I don't know.

32:00SPEAKER- Well, I've just seen them do this thing

32:02SPEAKERwhere they had the dominant part for two generations

32:06SPEAKERor two cycles and then they blew it, right?

32:11SPEAKERAnd so it's nice to see them like being excited

32:15SPEAKERabout the thing that they made.

32:17SPEAKERThe Radeon announcement, the lack of Radeon announcements

32:19SPEAKERis, was a surprise though.

32:22SPEAKERI think we all expected to see our DNA for parts announced

32:27SPEAKERat least, or at least teased or something.

32:29SPEAKERAnd they basically said, hey, we only got,

32:32SPEAKERbecause they were one of the daytime keynotes,

32:34SPEAKERthey only had 45 minutes and they didn't want to do

32:36SPEAKERa half-assed job with the GPU announcements,

32:39SPEAKERso that'll be coming later this quarter.

32:41SPEAKER- Oh, hey, now they have the benefit of Nvidia stuff

32:43SPEAKERall being on the table so they can think really hard

32:46SPEAKERabout how much they want to charge for those things.

32:48SPEAKER- Well, yeah, I mean, that's interesting

32:50SPEAKERbecause I don't, like I think that the Nvidia 2X perf claims

32:55SPEAKERwith the DLSS4 stuff maybe threw them for,

32:58SPEAKERmaybe is what they were worried about, right?

33:00SPEAKER'Cause like you think about that,

33:02SPEAKERthey're not gonna have something that's 2X,

33:03SPEAKERthe fourth series most likely.

33:06SPEAKERAnd so they, you know, held back waiting

33:10SPEAKERto see what Nvidia did.

33:12SPEAKERThe other big surprise out of this

33:14SPEAKERis that that means Intel continues

33:16SPEAKERto hold the performance ground at the low end

33:18SPEAKERfor graphics cards, 'cause that means that makes the B580,

33:21SPEAKERwhich is sold out everywhere pretty much,

33:24SPEAKERlook like a banger at $250 or $300,

33:26SPEAKERdepending on whether you get the Intel version

33:28SPEAKERor the OEM versions.

33:31SPEAKERAnd then we'll talk about the other stuff

33:33SPEAKERthey talked about in a minute.

33:36SPEAKERThe last thing is Strix Halo, which is the AMD

33:41SPEAKERlike mobile workstation gaming laptop version

33:43SPEAKERof the Ryzen AI that launched last summer.

33:47SPEAKER- Wait, hang on. - Yeah?

33:49SPEAKER- I don't think I've heard the name Ryzen AI.

33:51SPEAKER- That's what the mobile chips are called.

33:54SPEAKER- That's just an APU?

33:55SPEAKER- It's an APU, yeah.

33:56SPEAKER- Is that just what they are now calling their APUs?

33:58SPEAKER- They call them that 'cause they have an NPU

34:00SPEAKERand they're co-pilot certified.

34:01SPEAKER- Oh, I definitely understand the marketing impetus,

34:04SPEAKERlike that's the way the whole damn industry is going.

34:07SPEAKERI just wanna make sure like there is nothing

34:10SPEAKERto distinguish this other than an NPU,

34:11SPEAKERotherwise it is just the all-in-one chip

34:14SPEAKERthey've been making for years.

34:16SPEAKER- Yeah, so the Max Plus is the workstation version of that.

34:20SPEAKERIt's Zen 5 cores.

34:22SPEAKER- That's a very unfortunate name.

34:24SPEAKER- It's not, look, I haven't bought AI,

34:29SPEAKERlike I remember buying HD and 4K toothpaste at one point.

34:33SPEAKERWe have not reached the point where I'm buying AI toothpaste,

34:36SPEAKERbut I'm sure it's coming.

34:37SPEAKER- Yeah.

34:38SPEAKER- The Strix Halo, it looks like,

34:42SPEAKERso Intel rolled out their mobile workstation parts,

34:46SPEAKERwhich we'll talk about in a sec.

34:49SPEAKERThe Strix Halo looks like it's gonna be

34:50SPEAKERa little bit more performant,

34:52SPEAKERa little bit worse battery life.

34:55SPEAKERSo basically, if you're looking at the current mobile,

35:00SPEAKERthe mobile situation on Lunar Lake and Ryzen AI

35:05SPEAKERand Qualcomm Snapdragon X Elite,

35:10SPEAKERthe Snapdragon's have some software compatibility problems,

35:13SPEAKERbut have pretty good battery life and good performance.

35:15SPEAKERThe Intel machines perform a little bit better

35:17SPEAKERand have equivalent battery life,

35:20SPEAKERand the AMD machines perform even a little bit better

35:22SPEAKERthan that and have slightly less good battery life,

35:25SPEAKERbut still 12-hour battery life for the most part.

35:29SPEAKERAnd this is gonna continue that trend, it seems like.

35:32SPEAKERThey also put details on the Z2 processors,

35:35SPEAKERwhich we'd heard rumors about for a long time.

35:38SPEAKERThe AMD Z2 processors are real weird,

35:43SPEAKER'cause usually when you have a family of processors,

35:47SPEAKERyou think, oh, well, I know what that means.

35:50SPEAKERThat means that they're all basically the same processor,

35:53SPEAKERand there's a couple of things,

35:54SPEAKERlike maybe the number of cores,

35:56SPEAKERor maybe the clock speeds have changed.

35:58SPEAKERBut no, that's not how this works.

36:00SPEAKER- What is the Z2 line?

36:02SPEAKER- These are for handhelds.

36:03SPEAKERSo these are the successors to the custom-built APU

36:08SPEAKERthat they made for Valve for the Steam Deck.

36:11SPEAKER- Okay.

36:12SPEAKER- The Z1 Extreme is what's in the ROG Ally X.

36:16SPEAKERThey shipped in a bunch of the other APU-based

36:19SPEAKERhandheld gaming machines,

36:20SPEAKERand they're specifically designated for handhelds.

36:23SPEAKER- Got it.

36:24SPEAKERSo Strix Halo, the Ryzen AI stuff,

36:26SPEAKERis purely for notebooks, mobile workstations.

36:28SPEAKERThose will not trickle into handhelds?

36:30SPEAKER- I mean, look, people can put whatever they want

36:33SPEAKERinto whatever they want.

36:34SPEAKER- Well, realistically, I guess, I mean.

36:35SPEAKER- Probably not, but yeah, like never,

36:38SPEAKERINEO is gonna do some weird stuff

36:40SPEAKERno matter what AMD tells them to do, right?

36:42SPEAKER- Yes.

36:43SPEAKER- The other place that the AI Max might show up,

36:46SPEAKERlike we saw some of the mobile workstation parts

36:49SPEAKERfor Intel showing up in really interesting-looking,

36:53SPEAKERlike small form factor machines.

36:55SPEAKER- Oh, sure, yeah.

36:56SPEAKERYes, that's the stuff that gets me excited these days.

36:59SPEAKER- Yeah.

37:00SPEAKER- Can you give me a fanless one of those?

37:01SPEAKER- Yeah, exactly.

37:02SPEAKERIt has to turn into a router.

37:03SPEAKER- Oh, man, we should talk about that new fan.

37:05SPEAKERAnyway, okay, so the Z2 is launching in three flavors,

37:07SPEAKERZ2 Extreme, Z2, and Z2 Go.

37:11SPEAKERThe breakdown is that the Z2 Extreme is 16 RDNA 3.5 cores.

37:18SPEAKERRDNA 3.5 is like the souped up mobile-friendly version

37:22SPEAKERof RDNA 3, which is the current gen graphics

37:25SPEAKERthat they're shipping.

37:26SPEAKER- Okay, and do you know which RDNA version is in Z1,

37:29SPEAKERthe current Steam Deck?

37:30SPEAKER- Z2 is in the current Steam Deck.

37:32SPEAKER- Oh, wow, okay.

37:33SPEAKER- Yeah.

37:34SPEAKER- So handhelds running with these

37:35SPEAKERare a pretty good step up then over-

37:38SPEAKER- Well, kind of.

37:39SPEAKERThe Steam Deck,

37:40SPEAKERI don't actually have the Steam Deck configuration

37:42SPEAKERin front of me.

37:43SPEAKERI'm afraid to say what it is off the top of my head.

37:44SPEAKERThe Steam Deck has a relatively high number

37:46SPEAKERof GPU cores to CPU cores.

37:49SPEAKER- Okay.

37:49SPEAKER- Which makes sense for games.

37:51SPEAKERSo the Z2 Extreme has 16 CPU cores.

37:54SPEAKERThere's Zen 5.

37:58SPEAKERYeah, Zen, sorry.

37:59SPEAKER- Eight Zen 5 cores.

38:01SPEAKER- Okay, I was going to say 16 CPU cores.

38:03SPEAKER- Sorry.

38:04SPEAKER- Seems like way too much for a handheld.

38:06SPEAKER- Well, eight CPU cores kind of is too much,

38:08SPEAKERbut they do a neat thing where they have three

38:11SPEAKERhigh perf cores and five smaller efficiency cores.

38:14SPEAKER- Oh, that's right.

38:15SPEAKERAMD is, oh, is this their first heterogeneous?

38:18SPEAKER- I don't know about that, but it is-

38:21SPEAKER- I think I had seen sometime like last year,

38:24SPEAKERI think they were basically ramping up

38:25SPEAKERfor whatever their first one would be.

38:27SPEAKERWe're talking big little cores to be clear,

38:28SPEAKERlike performance versus efficiency, but-

38:30SPEAKER- Yeah.

38:31SPEAKER- This is probably close to their first one of those.

38:33SPEAKER- And it's interesting because it makes sense

38:36SPEAKERin this context, which is, hey,

38:37SPEAKERwe're going to use this thing to play games exclusively.

38:39SPEAKER- Yeah.

38:40SPEAKER- Because like most games are three to four cores max

38:45SPEAKERthese days.

38:45SPEAKER- I think you probably kind of have to have eight

38:49SPEAKERat this point because that's what the consoles have

38:51SPEAKERand are going to have from now on.

38:53SPEAKERSo like, if you really want to try to make sure

38:55SPEAKERthat you can go toe-to-toe with console ports,

38:59SPEAKERlike that's probably a good idea.

39:00SPEAKER- Well, okay, so it's funny you say that

39:02SPEAKER'cause the Z2 Vanilla, just the Ryzen Z2 is,

39:07SPEAKERso there's a little bit of an unclarity.

39:09SPEAKERAMD has two different things on their websites

39:11SPEAKERabout what the number of CPU cores in the Z2.

39:16SPEAKERIt looks to me like it's a new rev

39:19SPEAKERof what was previously called the Z1 Extreme,

39:21SPEAKERthe chip that's in the ROG Ally.

39:24SPEAKERIt's got the same four Zen core CPU cores, we think.

39:30SPEAKERLike I said, one part of their site says it has eight cores,

39:32SPEAKERone part of their site says it has four cores.

39:34SPEAKERWhen I talked to folks at PC World,

39:35SPEAKERthey were pretty sure in the briefing they said four cores,

39:37SPEAKERbut they weren't 100%

39:40SPEAKERand they didn't talk about this in the keynote.

39:43SPEAKERBut it's got the same Zen four CPU cores

39:46SPEAKERpaired with 12 RDNA three GPU cores,

39:49SPEAKERwhich is a fine configuration.

39:52SPEAKERLike the Ally is among the best

39:54SPEAKERof the non-Steam Deck handhelds, I think.

39:58SPEAKERAnd then the Ryzen Z2 Go is four Zen three CPU cores,

40:03SPEAKERso this is like 5,000 series equivalent.

40:06SPEAKER- Wait, they're mixing CPU architectures

40:07SPEAKERin the same product line?

40:09SPEAKERThat's weird. - Dude, it's wild.

40:10SPEAKERAnd then 12 RDNA two based GPU cores.

40:14SPEAKERSo the thing you lose going from RDNA three to RDNA two

40:17SPEAKERis stuff like Frame Gen and things like that,

40:19SPEAKERbut like upscaling and that other stuff

40:23SPEAKERwill work on the RDNA two cores.

40:26SPEAKER- Okay, here's my question.

40:28SPEAKER- Yeah.

40:28SPEAKER- There was a quote from Valve, I forget,

40:30SPEAKERI think it may have been Pierre Lou Graphet

40:32SPEAKERlike a year or two ago when some outlet was asking him

40:35SPEAKERabout, hey, when's the Steam Deck two happening?

40:36SPEAKERAnd the quote was essentially like, we're in no hurry,

40:39SPEAKERwe're waiting for like significant perf increases

40:41SPEAKERin what's available in hardware

40:43SPEAKERbefore we think about something, a rev like that.

40:46SPEAKERIs there any sense that this line,

40:48SPEAKERsomething in this line could represent

40:50SPEAKERthe increase they were looking for?

40:52SPEAKER- Well, it's funny you ask that because he,

40:56SPEAKERAMD had a picture of the Steam Deck

40:59SPEAKERnext to the Z2 Go on the slide.

41:02SPEAKER- And it was the middle one or the bottom one?

41:05SPEAKER- The bottom one, so that's the cheap one.

41:08SPEAKERAnd Pierre Lou got on Blue Sky immediately after that

41:11SPEAKERand said, there is and will be no Z2 Steam Deck.

41:15SPEAKERGuessing the slide was meant to say the series

41:17SPEAKERis meant for products like that,

41:18SPEAKERnot announcing anything specific.

41:20SPEAKER- Okay, you know, look, sometimes I appreciate a company

41:23SPEAKERlike Valve that can 100% call its own shots

41:27SPEAKERand nobody can tell them what to do

41:28SPEAKERand the candor that comes from that, you know what I mean?

41:32SPEAKER- Yep, it helps that they're empowered

41:33SPEAKERto just talk to the public when they need to.

41:36SPEAKER- Yeah.

41:37SPEAKER- So that's AMD, I think, that's everything we got there.

41:40SPEAKERI think the highlight, honestly, I mean,

41:42SPEAKERI'm excited about 9950 X3D.

41:44SPEAKERI probably am gonna, more cores seems nice.

41:48SPEAKER- Yeah.

41:49SPEAKER- But that Frank Azer statement about the 9800 X3D

41:53SPEAKERavailability is a banger, so good job, Frank.

41:56SPEAKER- Sure.

41:57SPEAKER- And then Intel, this is gonna be short,

42:00SPEAKERIntel announced mobile workstation parts,

42:03SPEAKERAero Lake Mobile, for people who need more than 32 gigs

42:05SPEAKERof RAM and more compute than Lunar Lake can do.

42:08SPEAKER- Oh, is Lunar Lake limited to 32 gig?

42:09SPEAKER- Yeah, Lunar Lake, the RAM is attached to the package, so.

42:13SPEAKER- That's right, that's right.

42:14SPEAKER- 32 gigs is the max on Lunar Lake.

42:16SPEAKER- Got it.

42:17SPEAKER- And so workstation gaming laptops will be Aero Lake Mobile.

42:22SPEAKERInterestingly, not a Co-Pilot Plus part,

42:24SPEAKER'cause it has the Meteor Lake NPU in it.

42:28SPEAKERSo it's only like 16 tops.

42:30SPEAKERI don't, judging by the number of times

42:32SPEAKERpeople have mentioned Co-Pilot Plus features at CES,

42:35SPEAKERI don't think anybody's gonna care.

42:37SPEAKERThis is the fastest we've gone from,

42:39SPEAKERhey, this is a potential Centrino system seller,

42:41SPEAKERto no one gives a shit that I've ever seen.

42:44SPEAKER- Yep, I think the ship has sailed on that feature set.

42:48SPEAKER- Michelle, who led the keynote for Intel, said that-

42:52SPEAKER- Is she one of the co-CEOs currently?

42:55SPEAKER- She's the co-CEO, she's the one that isn't the CFO,

42:59SPEAKERand is doing product stuff.

43:01SPEAKER- I was gonna say, she came from product, right?

43:03SPEAKER- Yeah, Michelle Johnson House, I think,

43:05SPEAKERI can't remember her last name.

43:08SPEAKER- Fingers crossed that the person from product

43:10SPEAKERwins the race over the person from finance.

43:13SPEAKER- I mean, I think they need to form Voltron together

43:17SPEAKERto make the one thing they can save Intel at this point.

43:20SPEAKERThe ARC B70, which is the step down-

43:24SPEAKER- B570. - B570, sorry, yeah.

43:26SPEAKERShe said B70, and it's stuck in my head now.

43:29SPEAKERThe B570 is coming later in January, she said.

43:32SPEAKER- That's another Battlemage part.

43:33SPEAKER- It's another Battlemage part.

43:35SPEAKERIt'll be probably a little bit less performant

43:36SPEAKER'cause the current one is the B580.

43:38SPEAKERBut yeah, anyway, so that's out.

43:41SPEAKER- Demand seems like a good sign for those.

43:44SPEAKER- Look, they've been sold out since they basically shipped.

43:46SPEAKERSo if you have a 2060 or 1060, and you're looking at,

43:53SPEAKERhey, I can't play any of the modern games,

43:55SPEAKERor ray tracing is bad, we tested a 1080

43:58SPEAKERwhen we did our Battlemage review,

44:00SPEAKERand the big thing for us wasn't that the performance wasn't,

44:03SPEAKERlike the average frame rate for the 1080 was fine.

44:06SPEAKERBut the weird thing was the variance

44:09SPEAKERand the minimum 1% frames, the slowest 1% frames,

44:13SPEAKERwere wildly slower than any other card we tested,

44:16SPEAKERprobably because nobody's optimizing drivers

44:18SPEAKERas much for the 1080 anymore.

44:20SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't wanna get into it.

44:21SPEAKERThere's been a bunch of FUD on social media

44:23SPEAKERabout those cards the last few weeks, or pretty recently,

44:26SPEAKERthat the Battlemage cards are extremely CPU bound.

44:29SPEAKER- It depends on, well, so that and resize bar.

44:33SPEAKERSo if your machine is, if your system is old enough

44:36SPEAKERthat it doesn't support resize bar,

44:38SPEAKERyou're gonna have performance problems,

44:40SPEAKERwhich is also true for everything

44:42SPEAKERfrom, I think, the three series on on the Nvidia side.

44:44SPEAKER- Okay, yeah, like to be clear,

44:45SPEAKERit's not, it does not seem like a big deal.

44:47SPEAKERIt was just a certain segment of tech, tech tube.

44:51SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah. - With whipping up drama

44:53SPEAKERabout something, but.

44:54SPEAKER- For what it's worth, if you BIOS update,

44:57SPEAKERlike my nine series Intel machine has a resize bar

45:00SPEAKERthat you can flip on, but I had to update the BIOS

45:03SPEAKERto get the feature unveiled.

45:05SPEAKER- It's just, it's cool this is happening.

45:07SPEAKERLike the market, the market needs like a good,

45:09SPEAKERso robust sub $300 solid GPU segments.

45:13SPEAKERSo it's good that somebody is serving that finally.

45:15SPEAKER- It is, it is a good, I mean,

45:16SPEAKERthe fact that you can have solid 1080p

45:18SPEAKERand maybe 1440p at 250 bucks, $300 is cool.

45:23SPEAKERAlso on the Intel future looking front,

45:26SPEAKERthey held up a Panther Lake chip.

45:29SPEAKERThis is the second time we've seen one of these.

45:30SPEAKER- Okay, yeah, this is all news to me,

45:32SPEAKER'cause it seemed like the rumor mill had pegged,

45:34SPEAKERthat might be a ways off.

45:36SPEAKERThere might be a big gap between Aero Lake and Panther Lake.

45:39SPEAKERI wonder if the relative underperformance of Aero Lake

45:42SPEAKERhas accelerated things, I don't know.

45:44SPEAKER- I think 18A, Intel's 18A, the new process node

45:49SPEAKERis moving along faster than anticipated.

45:51SPEAKERAnd so they, she said that's on track

45:54SPEAKERfor second half of this year.

45:55SPEAKER- That's exciting, I hope that thing is really good

45:59SPEAKERbecause I would love to see both CPU companies

46:01SPEAKERlike really, you know, going after it.

46:06SPEAKERI'd love to see like really good, strong competition

46:08SPEAKERin the CPU space.

46:09SPEAKER- Competition is good.

46:11SPEAKERLenovo, a lot of handhelds.

46:14SPEAKERIf you wanna see, I think Adam over at PC World

46:17SPEAKERhas done interviews with a bunch of the people

46:18SPEAKERmaking handhelds, there's a couple we'll talk about here.

46:22SPEAKERLenovo is showing, showed off the first machine

46:26SPEAKERrunning SteamOS on a non-Steam deck.

46:28SPEAKER- Yeah, what is it, power powered by SteamOS

46:31SPEAKERor whatever the little stamp on the box is gonna say?

46:33SPEAKER- Yeah, the leak about this came in their branding documents

46:35SPEAKERa few weeks ago, but we didn't know who's gonna ship it.

46:38SPEAKERAnd it turns out the first one's gonna be Lenovo.

46:41SPEAKERI'd expect other folks to follow it.

46:42SPEAKERIt seems like they might have a little bit

46:43SPEAKERof a window of exclusivity, but of course,

46:46SPEAKERLenovo has shipped Linux laptops for two decades now.

46:49SPEAKERSo they have some Linux expertise,

46:53SPEAKERI think as almost everybody does at this point, but.

46:55SPEAKER- Yeah, we talked about that a little bit on next lander.

46:57SPEAKERIt's got one of the Z2s in it, I forget which one.

47:00SPEAKERI think the, so the branding on the Legion GO S is weird

47:06SPEAKERbecause there's two different colors and you get,

47:08SPEAKERI think the purple one is the Steam Deck one.

47:10SPEAKER- Yeah, one of them is Windows.

47:11SPEAKER- Yeah, the purple's so black, it looks almost black.

47:14SPEAKERAnd then the white one is Windows and is more expensive,

47:17SPEAKERa hundred bucks more expensive.

47:19SPEAKERSo this is, that was the interesting thing to me.

47:20SPEAKERIt's essentially same hardware, different colors.

47:23SPEAKERWe know what the- - Oh, it's the same hardware?

47:25SPEAKER- I believe so, yes.

47:26SPEAKER- I mean, I thought I saw it had double the RAM.

47:28SPEAKER- Well, that, I mean, that wouldn't surprise me too, too much.

47:31SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, that's correct.

47:32SPEAKERThe Windows version does have more RAM and storage,

47:35SPEAKERit sounds like.

47:36SPEAKER- Yeah, so that's weird to me that the Windows specs are,

47:38SPEAKERthat it has more RAM on the Windows version.

47:39SPEAKERI hadn't seen anybody pick up on that

47:41SPEAKERin the coverage that I read, but they both,

47:44SPEAKERit looks like are running the Z2 GO,

47:46SPEAKERwhich is the low end of the new Z2 processor,

47:48SPEAKERwhich is basically kind of a souped up Steam Deck.

47:52SPEAKER- Oh, so that's the Zen 3 version?

47:54SPEAKER- It's the Zen 3 RDNA 2 version, yeah.

47:57SPEAKER- Okay, so this thing is maybe not that much faster

47:59SPEAKERthan the existing Steam Deck.

48:01SPEAKERI did see, it looks like you'll be able to pump more,

48:03SPEAKERoptionally, pump more power into it

48:05SPEAKERto get better performance at the cost of battery life.

48:07SPEAKER- You can do that with the Steam Deck, kind of, but-

48:09SPEAKER- Well, this sounded like way higher than that,

48:11SPEAKERlike you could potentially do like 20, 30 watts or something.

48:14SPEAKER- Oh, wow, yeah.

48:16SPEAKERYeah, the Steam Deck stops at 15 watts, I think, typically.

48:19SPEAKER- That's exactly what this Verge story says,

48:20SPEAKERis that Lenovo said aimed at 20 watt performance,

48:23SPEAKER30, maybe even 40 watt configurable performance.

48:26SPEAKERSo.

48:27SPEAKER- Yeah, it's funny, they're both up on Best Buy,

48:29SPEAKERand they don't really say on the Best Buy one,

48:34SPEAKERhey, this is a Steam OS version.

48:38SPEAKERThe interesting thing about this Legion Go

48:40SPEAKERis that it doesn't have the removable controllers, I believe,

48:45SPEAKERwhich is a nice thing.

48:46SPEAKER- Right, I did see that.

48:48SPEAKER- Yeah, so anyway.

48:49SPEAKER- Anyway, like the era of third party Steam Decks

48:52SPEAKERseems like it will be a good thing for everybody.

48:55SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, we've talked about this a lot

48:57SPEAKERover at PC World.

48:57SPEAKERI think that the benefit of Steam OS

49:01SPEAKERis you get PC gaming with a more console-like experience,

49:04SPEAKERso you don't, like it handles the configuration

49:07SPEAKERand a lot of the stuff for you,

49:08SPEAKERso you just get a decent performance experience.

49:11SPEAKERAnd I think that this is interesting about that Z2 Go

49:16SPEAKERis because it's basically a superset

49:17SPEAKERof the Steam Deck processor, you can buy that

49:20SPEAKERand know that people are targeting Steam Deck,

49:23SPEAKERlike launch Steam Deck for their mobile

49:27SPEAKERSteam OS performance targets.

49:30SPEAKERSo you're gonna get good perf on these Z2 Go processors,

49:33SPEAKEReven though the tech inside's a little bit older.

49:36SPEAKER- Yeah, and then to be clear, Valve came out and said,

49:38SPEAKERit's gonna be one Steam OS for every piece of hardware

49:41SPEAKERthat supports it.

49:41SPEAKER- Yeah.

49:42SPEAKER- Like they flat out said,

49:43SPEAKERlike there will be no Steam Deck exclusive features,

49:45SPEAKERlike we're doing the same OS for all of these.

49:48SPEAKER- I mean, that's also how Linux drivers work, right?

49:52SPEAKERSo it's, they're gonna have a monolithic image

49:54SPEAKERand they'll just know what,

49:55SPEAKERthe difference is they'll detect

49:57SPEAKERwhat resolution the machines ship.

49:59SPEAKER- Yeah, well, if it's a different APU,

50:00SPEAKERit's probably gonna need different drivers

50:03SPEAKERand different shaders,

50:04SPEAKERlike that's like pre-compiled shaders is a huge one,

50:06SPEAKERfor example, like you will absolutely need

50:07SPEAKERdifferent shaders for different,

50:09SPEAKERfor other hardware configurations.

50:10SPEAKER- Yeah, the pre-compiled shaders is the big deal.

50:13SPEAKERMaybe this would be nice,

50:14SPEAKERmaybe Valve will start caching compiled shaders

50:17SPEAKERfor all potential hardware configurations

50:19SPEAKERacross desktop and mobile.

50:21SPEAKER- Oh, whoa, that's a tall order,

50:24SPEAKERbut at least for every one of these handhelds seems doable.

50:27SPEAKER- Speaking of other handhelds,

50:29SPEAKERAcer rolled out the Blaze 11.

50:33SPEAKER- Yeah, is that the gigantic,

50:34SPEAKERlike horrifyingly huge handheld I keep seeing photos of?

50:37SPEAKER- The 11 denotes an 11 inch handheld screen.

50:40SPEAKER- That is big.

50:41SPEAKER- It is.

50:43SPEAKERI think they had the press photos that they released of this

50:47SPEAKERhad a person who looked like they had very large hands

50:50SPEAKERand this still looks like it's like

50:53SPEAKERthe size of a steering wheel, basically.

50:56SPEAKER- Does that have detachable controllers I think I saw?

50:59SPEAKER- I can't tell from the picture.

51:01SPEAKERI do not think so.

51:02SPEAKERI think it's the Legion GO

51:03SPEAKERas you're thinking about the other Lenovo,

51:05SPEAKERwhich has detachable controllers.

51:08SPEAKERHaving tested that Legion GO,

51:10SPEAKERthe detachable controllers were not a good thing.

51:13SPEAKERSo this is a 2560 by 1600 IPS display,

51:16SPEAKER120 Hertz refresh rate.

51:18SPEAKERAnd yeah, it kind of reminds me of that.

51:21SPEAKERRemember that Dreamcast controller

51:22SPEAKERwith the keyboard in the middle

51:23SPEAKERthat you got for typing in the dead?

51:25SPEAKERVery reminiscent of that,

51:26SPEAKERbut with a screen where the keyboard went.

51:28SPEAKER- Seems like a high resolution

51:30SPEAKERto have to drive in a handheld.

51:31SPEAKER- Yeah, well, it has Radeon 780M mobile graphics in it.

51:35SPEAKERIt's not an APU.

51:38SPEAKER- Oh, so this is more like a decent laptop

51:41SPEAKERwithout a keyboard rather than a oversized Steam Deck?

51:44SPEAKER- Yeah, I think so.

51:45SPEAKERWell, I'm sure somebody sent to that.

51:48SPEAKER- So I was looking to see if I could find a picture

51:51SPEAKERof somebody holding up a Steam Deck next to it

51:53SPEAKERto see what it looked like,

51:54SPEAKERbut I couldn't find one, unfortunately, so.

51:56SPEAKER- Yeah.

51:57SPEAKER- What else we got, Brad?

52:00SPEAKER- Should we talk about Switch 2 leaks?

52:02SPEAKER- Did somebody do something stupid,

52:03SPEAKERlike have a Switch 2 case on the floor of CES?

52:06SPEAKER- Speaking of people holding handhelds up

52:07SPEAKERnext to other handhelds,

52:09SPEAKERGenki, the Switch accessory manufacturer, Genki,

52:14SPEAKERwhich I didn't realize this until after this leak happened

52:17SPEAKERand I looked into it.

52:18SPEAKERDo you remember when we talked about the covert dock

52:21SPEAKERfor the Switch that I have years,

52:24SPEAKERlike three or four years ago at this point?

52:26SPEAKER- Yeah.

52:27SPEAKER- Which is basically a tiny little, it's a charging brick.

52:29SPEAKERIt looks like it's a black standard wall war charging brick,

52:33SPEAKERbut also has USB-C and HDMI in it

52:35SPEAKERbecause it's a Switch dock as well.

52:36SPEAKERLike it's just a charging brick

52:37SPEAKERthat you can use as a portable Switch dock.

52:40SPEAKERIt's kind of all, it's an awesome concept.

52:42SPEAKERIt's them.

52:43SPEAKER- Yeah, they make a bunch of weird Switch stuff.

52:45SPEAKER- Like they made a cool forward-looking little piece

52:49SPEAKERof like high Switch technology a few years ago

52:51SPEAKERthat I think is really cool.

52:52SPEAKERAnd now here they are with controller add-ons at CES,

52:55SPEAKERjust like blowing the doors off exactly

52:58SPEAKERwhat the Switch 2 looks like.

52:59SPEAKERLike they brought a mock-up prototype of it

53:01SPEAKERto show how their like shell

53:03SPEAKERand controller accessory stuff fits on.

53:07SPEAKER- Wow.

53:08SPEAKER- And it's just like, there's the Switch 2.

53:09SPEAKERI mean, it's not functional.

53:11SPEAKERIt's not the real thing,

53:12SPEAKERbut it sure does confirm like basically every leak

53:15SPEAKERabout the size of that thing and where the ports are

53:18SPEAKERand the fact that it's got an extra USB-C port on the top

53:21SPEAKERand all of it.

53:22SPEAKERAnd the magnetic Joy-Con attachment.

53:26SPEAKER- Oh, with the posts?

53:29SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't remember what kind of magnetism that is.

53:33SPEAKERIt's not electromagnets.

53:34SPEAKERIt's something else.

53:35SPEAKERIt's the--

53:35SPEAKER- This is like smart magnets?

53:37SPEAKER- Is that really, no, is that really exotic?

53:39SPEAKERWell, I mean, we haven't gotten the real thing.

53:40SPEAKERThese were all from the rumors.

53:42SPEAKERI mean, somebody I fix it will have to tear the thing down

53:44SPEAKERonce it's out to confirm probably,

53:45SPEAKERbut it's that really exotic new type of magnetism

53:48SPEAKERwhere you basically run a current through the magnet once.

53:52SPEAKER- Oh.

53:53SPEAKER- You don't have to supply constant current

53:54SPEAKERlike an electromagnet.

53:55SPEAKERI don't know what that's called.

53:56SPEAKER- It's like you turn the magnets on and off basically.

53:59SPEAKER- But yes, but it's not gonna like drain battery

54:01SPEAKERto keep the controllers connected is the point.

54:02SPEAKERSo anyway, it seems like this confirms all of those leaks

54:06SPEAKERabout that stuff.

54:08SPEAKERIt's just a weird thing to do when you're a partner.

54:14SPEAKERI don't know if there's some kind of licensed partner.

54:15SPEAKERI don't know if they care about blowback from Nintendo,

54:19SPEAKERto basically bring a non-functional switch

54:23SPEAKERto inform to CES before the announcement seems

54:27SPEAKERlike somebody is gonna get shot.

54:29SPEAKER- Yeah, it seems like the kind of thing

54:30SPEAKERthat would get your hardware partner upset with you,

54:32SPEAKERbut I don't know for sure.

54:33SPEAKER- But I don't know if those accessories

54:34SPEAKERare licensed that they make, so maybe they don't care.

54:37SPEAKERI mean, yeah, maybe they're just running free.

54:39SPEAKERYou know what is licensed though, Brad?

54:41SPEAKER- What is that?

54:42SPEAKER- HDMI 2.2.

54:44SPEAKER- Yeah, they announced that spec.

54:46SPEAKER- It's kind of a, it's a little meh.

54:48SPEAKER- I have, I mean, yes and no.

54:50SPEAKERI mean-

54:51SPEAKER- Doubling the bandwidth always good?

54:53SPEAKER- Like it's meh in the sense that nobody needs

54:57SPEAKERany of this right now,

54:58SPEAKERbut like the numbers are pretty impressive.

55:01SPEAKERSo it doubles the bandwidth from HDMI 2.1

55:04SPEAKERfrom 48 to 96 gigabits per second.

55:07SPEAKER- Yep, that's good.

55:08SPEAKER- I had to dig a little bit to find out

55:09SPEAKERwhat that means in practical terms

55:11SPEAKERof resolutions and refreshes and so forth.

55:13SPEAKERIt's a lot more than I thought.

55:14SPEAKER- Nothing practical for anyone

55:16SPEAKERthat's listening to this podcast in 2025.

55:19SPEAKER- To be clear, somebody on the Discord,

55:21SPEAKERlike right after this got announced was like,

55:22SPEAKER"Oh my God, I literally just ran HDMI 2.1 cables

55:25SPEAKERin my walls yesterday."

55:26SPEAKER- You're fine.

55:27SPEAKER- You're fine.

55:27SPEAKERYou're going to be fine for probably 20 years.

55:31SPEAKER- What 2.2 does now is 4K at up to 480 Hertz.

55:35SPEAKER- Yeah.

55:36SPEAKER- 8K at up to 240 Hertz.

55:38SPEAKER- Yeah.

55:39SPEAKER- 10K at 120 Hertz.

55:41SPEAKER- Yeah.

55:41SPEAKER- Which I don't know if 10K is even an actual like-

55:44SPEAKER- 10K is like, so 5K is like a wider 4K.

55:48SPEAKERThat's 10K is wider 8K.

55:50SPEAKER- Right, right.

55:51SPEAKERSo like 10K is not even,

55:52SPEAKERit's just kind of another half step up.

55:53SPEAKERIt's not even like an official full next thing.

55:56SPEAKER- Yeah.

55:57SPEAKER- But-

55:58SPEAKER- It's mostly for like medical imaging

56:00SPEAKERand large scale signage and stuff like that

56:02SPEAKERfrom what I can tell.

56:03SPEAKER- I pulled this quote from the press release

56:06SPEAKERthat kind of makes the stuff makes more sense.

56:09SPEAKERApproves demanding data intensive applications

56:11SPEAKERsuch as AR, VR, and MR, spatial reality

56:13SPEAKERand light field displays, various commercial applications

56:16SPEAKERsuch as large scale digital signage,

56:18SPEAKERmedical imaging, and machine vision.

56:19SPEAKERSo not really consumer looking.

56:22SPEAKER- So I did a video about this over at PC World.

56:25SPEAKERAnd the one thing that I thought was interesting

56:27SPEAKERis the latency indication protocol,

56:30SPEAKERAKA LIP.

56:31SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't know how I feel about this

56:33SPEAKERbecause okay, so HDMI 2.1, if you remember,

56:35SPEAKERintroduced like a pretty broad feature set of cool stuff.

56:38SPEAKER- Yeah, eARC and all that stuff came out with that,

56:40SPEAKERwhich tackled this a little bit.

56:42SPEAKER- Well, variable refresh and auto low latency,

56:45SPEAKERlike a lot of gaming features,

56:47SPEAKERlike a lot of like the stuff you needed HDMI to have

56:49SPEAKERto be relevant for modern setups.

56:54SPEAKERThis kind of implies that like,

56:57SPEAKERlet me put this a different way.

56:58SPEAKERI thought I assumed this was already a solved problem.

57:01SPEAKERLike latency indication protocol,

57:03SPEAKERit's basically supposed to help

57:04SPEAKERif you have like a game console into an HD,

57:07SPEAKERor sorry, an AV receiver into a TV,

57:10SPEAKERout to a soundbar, blah, blah, blah.

57:12SPEAKERLike that's a lot of devices in a chain.

57:14SPEAKERIt's supposed to help unify the sync,

57:16SPEAKERthe audio and video sync better across all of those,

57:20SPEAKERwhich just leads me to say,

57:22SPEAKERyou mean it wasn't already synced properly in 2.1 setups?

57:26SPEAKER'Cause that's already very expensive equipment.

57:27SPEAKERIt's a little distressing to hear this was still a problem.

57:30SPEAKER- So part of the problem is that the latency is variable

57:33SPEAKERand there was no way for it to communicate up and down.

57:36SPEAKERSo the thing that this gives is a way to,

57:38SPEAKERfor say your soundbar to say,

57:41SPEAKERyeah, I'm doing audio processing,

57:42SPEAKERso processing is gonna take me 22 milliseconds.

57:45SPEAKERAnd it'll pass that back to the source,

57:47SPEAKERto the initial source.

57:48SPEAKER- Yeah, that makes sense.

57:49SPEAKER- And then the source will adjust from there.

57:52SPEAKERSo the source will send the video 22 seconds,

57:54SPEAKERor the video 22 seconds, milliseconds earlier

57:57SPEAKERthan the audio.

57:58SPEAKER- Like that is all really neat

58:00SPEAKERfrom a control signaling standpoint, conceptually.

58:02SPEAKERIt's just the idea that if you've already bought

58:04SPEAKERinto an expensive setup, you don't have this,

58:06SPEAKERis again, a little alarming.

58:08SPEAKEROn the other hand, like maybe the latency is so small

58:11SPEAKERthat most people don't notice anyway.

58:12SPEAKER- I think it's mostly in some specific odd use cases.

58:20SPEAKERSo they had four use cases on their,

58:25SPEAKERhey, here's how this works site.

58:27SPEAKERAnd I think this was a thing

58:28SPEAKERthat spun out of Dolby, I believe.

58:30SPEAKERThere's a GitHub with the, LIP is the acronym.

58:34SPEAKER- Oh wow.

58:35SPEAKER- With the breakdown of how it works.

58:36SPEAKER- I need to go pull up,

58:37SPEAKERI wanna go look at the repo for this.

58:39SPEAKER- But one of the things

58:40SPEAKERthat I thought was interesting in this

58:41SPEAKERis that if you, for example, have devices

58:44SPEAKERthat have different latency in different modes,

58:46SPEAKERso say your TV has a game mode

58:47SPEAKERor your receiver has a game mode,

58:50SPEAKERwhen you shift into the different mode,

58:53SPEAKERthe TV can communicate to the source

58:55SPEAKERthat it's shifted into the mode,

58:56SPEAKERwhich is not a thing that happened before.

58:58SPEAKER- Okay.

59:00SPEAKER- So yeah, and because it happens on the source side,

59:02SPEAKERyou get something that's cleaner

59:04SPEAKERthan the receiver trying to eat like 30 seconds,

59:07SPEAKER30 milliseconds or whatever of latency.

59:09SPEAKER- I wonder if LIP is in any way backwards compatible,

59:13SPEAKERor do you, I guess you're gonna need 2.2 devices

59:15SPEAKERand cables up and down to use it?

59:17SPEAKER- So it is aware of things that are not necessarily 2.2.

59:23SPEAKERThat it works with eARC and HDMI and HDMI 2.1 devices

59:28SPEAKERas well, it seems like.

59:30SPEAKER- That's cool.

59:31SPEAKER- I think the source has to be LIP,

59:34SPEAKERbut it can, like their graphics specifically show devices

59:39SPEAKERthat are not LIP compatible interacting with it.

59:43SPEAKERSo anyway.

59:44SPEAKER- That seems promising.

59:45SPEAKER- Yeah, but it's a small upgrade.

59:47SPEAKER- But yeah, it's a small feature set increase

59:51SPEAKERalso in general, like 2.1 brought

59:53SPEAKERso many improvements and specific features,

59:55SPEAKERlike I said, for modern AV setups.

59:56SPEAKERAnd this is just kind of like a little more,

59:59SPEAKERit's a pretty modest upgrade compared to 2.1.

1:00:02SPEAKER- Look, we can't all be HDMI 2.1.

1:00:04SPEAKERSpeaking of DisplayPort 2.1 B, the smallest upgrade.

1:00:10SPEAKER- Seems like longer cables.

1:00:11SPEAKER- Hey man, it's not even just longer cables,

1:00:13SPEAKERit's longer multi-channel cables.

1:00:15SPEAKERSo if you have an 80 gigabit per second cable right now,

1:00:20SPEAKERand you're like, you know what?

1:00:21SPEAKERThis cable can only be one meter.

1:00:23SPEAKERAn 80 gigabit cable in this case

1:00:25SPEAKERis four 20 gigabit per second channels.

1:00:28SPEAKERIf you have one of those and you're like,

1:00:31SPEAKERI wish it was more than a meter.

1:00:32SPEAKER'Cause a meter, it turns out a meter

1:00:34SPEAKERwon't work with my standing desk.

1:00:35SPEAKERIt's not long enough.

1:00:37SPEAKER- It's like three feet-ish.

1:00:38SPEAKER- Yeah, three feet-ish.

1:00:40SPEAKERNow the DP80LL cables will be available

1:00:43SPEAKERwith DisplayPort 2.1 B,

1:00:46SPEAKERwhich deliver four 20 gigabit per second channels

1:00:48SPEAKERover three meters, which is just under 10 feet.

1:00:51SPEAKER- That's a lot, that's pretty good.

1:00:53SPEAKER- That's okay, yeah.

1:00:54SPEAKER- Those are active cables, I believe.

1:00:55SPEAKERThat means there's probably extra power running in there.

1:00:57SPEAKER- Yeah, it is active cables.

1:00:59SPEAKERAnd it doesn't really change anything

1:01:02SPEAKERwith the single channel 20 gigabit cables.

1:01:06SPEAKER- Yeah, like effectively DisplayPort is not changing

1:01:08SPEAKERwith this new spec increase.

1:01:09SPEAKERLike it's not something most people need to worry about.

1:01:12SPEAKER- Yeah, it seems like this is like docs

1:01:14SPEAKERand stuff like that maybe.

1:01:17SPEAKER- I can't imagine, the GeForce 5000 series

1:01:19SPEAKERsupports the new spec, is the first thing.

1:01:22SPEAKERThe reason they announced it is 'cause it's the first design

1:01:24SPEAKERwhen the Blackwall chips were the first design

1:01:26SPEAKERwhen for this, I believe.

1:01:27SPEAKER- Are they 2.2 as well?

1:01:29SPEAKER- I do not know what HDMI spec they are.

1:01:31SPEAKERI don't think they said.

1:01:32SPEAKER- Okay.

1:01:33SPEAKER- I didn't jump out.

1:01:34SPEAKER- Also, those cards are PCI express five, right?

1:01:36SPEAKER- Yeah, they are PCI five.

1:01:38SPEAKER- That's the first GeForce generation to be five.

1:01:40SPEAKERNot that it really matters that much.

1:01:42SPEAKER- Yeah, it turns out we're not really saturating

1:01:44SPEAKERthe PCI express bus with anything but SSDs right now.

1:01:48SPEAKEROkay, so now you wanna do a speed round?

1:01:50SPEAKERWe got like some weird stuff here at the bottom.

1:01:53SPEAKER- Yep, I threw a few things in here.

1:01:55SPEAKERI did not do a ton of research on these.

1:01:57SPEAKERIt's more just kind of conversation starters.

1:01:59SPEAKERI saw a very high refresh monitors

1:02:02SPEAKERare becoming more common.

1:02:03SPEAKER- Above 400 Hertz.

1:02:05SPEAKER- Like 480 Hertz is becoming like relatively common,

1:02:08SPEAKERlike multiple manufacturers are putting out monitors

1:02:10SPEAKERlike that now.

1:02:11SPEAKERI saw one at 500 and there was one from a company

1:02:14SPEAKERI had not heard of that was only a 1080p screen

1:02:16SPEAKERto be clear at 750 Hertz.

1:02:19SPEAKER- Wow.

1:02:20SPEAKER- And before like three weeks ago,

1:02:24SPEAKERI could not have cared about monitors

1:02:25SPEAKERthat reach 400 or 500 Hertz.

1:02:28SPEAKERAnd then that's a, and then that Blur Busters

1:02:30SPEAKERand CRT beam simulator shader came out

1:02:32SPEAKERand have we talked about that at all?

1:02:33SPEAKER- No.

1:02:34SPEAKER- Have you seen that?

1:02:35SPEAKER- No, does it work on 360 Hertz panels?

1:02:38SPEAKER- It works on anything, but the higher your refresh,

1:02:40SPEAKERthe better it works.

1:02:42SPEAKERI believe it might rely on black frame insertion.

1:02:45SPEAKERI can't remember.

1:02:47SPEAKERMaybe it doesn't, I'm not sure.

1:02:49SPEAKERIt might just be high refresh in general,

1:02:50SPEAKERbut shader effectively simulates

1:02:55SPEAKERthe way an electron gun paints a CRT,

1:02:57SPEAKERlike the way that it draws from top to bottom,

1:03:00SPEAKERmultiple kind of multiple, look, I'm not a display engineer.

1:03:04SPEAKER- It's left to right, top to bottom, yeah.

1:03:06SPEAKER- I can't like use all the proper terminology here.

1:03:08SPEAKERBut if you look at like the Blur Busters

1:03:10SPEAKERhas got like slow motion animated GIFs

1:03:13SPEAKERof how this works up and you can look at it

1:03:15SPEAKERand you can basically see it's using the refreshes

1:03:17SPEAKERin between the normal 60 Hertz of an NTSC signal

1:03:20SPEAKERto simulate the partial frame draw of the way a CRT works.

1:03:25SPEAKERIt's basically supposed to kind of solve

1:03:27SPEAKERthe motion blur problem and make it look,

1:03:29SPEAKERif your display is high refresh enough,

1:03:32SPEAKERmake it look basically as clear as a CRT would,

1:03:35SPEAKERwhich is pretty rad.

1:03:37SPEAKER- I'm here for this, I'm gonna try this.

1:03:39SPEAKERYou need, I wanna say I've seen that you need

1:03:42SPEAKERlike 240 Hertz is kind of the minimum

1:03:45SPEAKERto make this work correctly, it sounds like.

1:03:47SPEAKER- That seems right.

1:03:48SPEAKER- So like a 480 Hertz screen for this is ideal.

1:03:54SPEAKERAnd so like it is, the point is it's good news

1:03:56SPEAKERfor like the future of recreating the look of CRTs

1:03:58SPEAKERwithout CRTs.

1:03:59SPEAKER- Apparently the next public version of RetroArch

1:04:02SPEAKERwill have this, they've already integrated it.

1:04:04SPEAKER- No, it's in there, it's in the nightly.

1:04:05SPEAKERI've tried it on this 144 Hertz monitor

1:04:08SPEAKERand did not have a good experience with it.

1:04:09SPEAKER- I have a 360 Hertz monitor right here,

1:04:11SPEAKERI'm gonna try that later today.

1:04:13SPEAKER- Yeah, you can do it now if you wanna go get

1:04:15SPEAKERthe nightly of RetroArch.

1:04:17SPEAKER- That's exciting, I'm like on the panel front,

1:04:25SPEAKERthere were a bunch of micro LEDs this year around.

1:04:26SPEAKERI don't think I saw anything that's actually shipping.

1:04:30SPEAKERIt still seems like it's not quite a real product,

1:04:32SPEAKERbut it looked more real this year than it has before.

1:04:35SPEAKER- Wow, Hisense is the first company

1:04:37SPEAKERto put out a micro LED.

1:04:38SPEAKER- No, there were other micro LEDs.

1:04:40SPEAKEROkay, so this is one of those ones that they make these TVs

1:04:43SPEAKERand they're gonna sell like eight of them.

1:04:45SPEAKER- Yeah, 'cause they all cost $100,000.

1:04:47SPEAKER- Yeah, this is 136 inch micro LED TV.

1:04:50SPEAKERAnd for people who don't know micro LEDs,

1:04:52SPEAKERinstead of using sub pixels,

1:04:54SPEAKERlike each pixel is a RGB LED, right?

1:04:58SPEAKERA little tiny LED.

1:04:59SPEAKER- It's similar to OLED without the organic compounds,

1:05:01SPEAKERbasically, like it's kind of the advantages of OLED

1:05:04SPEAKERwithout the downsides of the degrading pixels over time.

1:05:07SPEAKERAlthough I'm sure no screen technology in history

1:05:10SPEAKERhas ever come to market

1:05:11SPEAKERwithout revealing some downsides of its own.

1:05:13SPEAKERSo we'll see, but it sounds like this is

1:05:16SPEAKERdefinitely supposed to be an improvement on OLED.

1:05:18SPEAKERWe've been talking about micro LED for years.

1:05:19SPEAKER- Yeah, so we've reached the point now

1:05:21SPEAKERwhere they're making giant oversized versions

1:05:23SPEAKERand threatening to actually sell them.

1:05:25SPEAKER- That seems like good news

1:05:26SPEAKER'cause that's always the prelude

1:05:27SPEAKERto like sensible actual consumer TVs happening.

1:05:31SPEAKERSo the Hisense One, I believe is 136 inch TV.

1:05:34SPEAKERI think that's what the 136 in the product name means.

1:05:38SPEAKERThe press release and their website for it

1:05:40SPEAKERdon't actually say how big it is.

1:05:41SPEAKER'Cause if you have to ask,

1:05:43SPEAKERI guess you can't afford it

1:05:45SPEAKERor your house isn't big enough or something, I don't know.

1:05:48SPEAKER- This thing is very bright.

1:05:50SPEAKER- Well, I mean, that's the benefit of micro LED

1:05:51SPEAKERis that it should be insanely bright

1:05:53SPEAKERcompared to your normal backlit LED, LCD TV.

1:05:58SPEAKER- Yeah, well, no, actually the current like mini LEDs,

1:06:01SPEAKERLCD TVs are super bright.

1:06:03SPEAKERThey are way brighter than OLED.

1:06:05SPEAKERLike that's been OLED's biggest downside

1:06:07SPEAKERbesides the image degrading over time

1:06:09SPEAKERis that OLED really struggles to reach

1:06:12SPEAKERsignificant brightness to the point

1:06:13SPEAKERthat they're doing like light focusing coatings on screens

1:06:19SPEAKERto try to increase the brightness of OLED and stuff.

1:06:21SPEAKERThey're doing all kinds of tricks there.

1:06:22SPEAKER- Panasonic's trick that they announced

1:06:23SPEAKERwhere they're doing two OLED screens on top of each other.

1:06:26SPEAKER- Oh, is that what's in that Panasonic TV?

1:06:28SPEAKERI had not seen that.

1:06:30SPEAKERWell, anyway, this micro LED TV from Hisense

1:06:32SPEAKERgets to 10,000 nits, which is insane.

1:06:36SPEAKERI think my current Hisense, which is a mini LED,

1:06:38SPEAKERis like, I'd have to double check.

1:06:42SPEAKERIt's definitely nowhere near 10,000.

1:06:43SPEAKERIt's in the low thousands nits, I believe,

1:06:46SPEAKERand it's very, very bright.

1:06:49SPEAKERSo 10,000 nits is quite a lot.

1:06:52SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, to--

1:06:52SPEAKER- Jeff, okay.

1:06:53SPEAKERYes, 1500, sorry, I just wanted to confirm.

1:06:56SPEAKERMy TV is 1500 nits and it is at max brightness,

1:07:00SPEAKERit is kind of too bright to look at.

1:07:02SPEAKER- So to give point of reference,

1:07:04SPEAKERthe iPhone 15, which you use outside, 15 Pro is 2000 nits?

1:07:10SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:07:11SPEAKER- So you can use 136 inch TV outside in the summertime.

1:07:15SPEAKER- Right, so if shipping micro LED TVs

1:07:17SPEAKERare hitting 10,000 nits,

1:07:18SPEAKERthat seems like a very good, very good thing.

1:07:21SPEAKERAnd to be clear, as I understand it at least,

1:07:23SPEAKERa high peak brightness is really useful,

1:07:24SPEAKEReven if that sounds like icieringly bright,

1:07:26SPEAKERbecause when you like try to brighten the entire frame,

1:07:28SPEAKERyou can't go anywhere near as bright full frame

1:07:32SPEAKERas you can in tiny little spots, you know?

1:07:34SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:07:34SPEAKER- I assume a higher peak brightness

1:07:36SPEAKERis good for full frame brightness,

1:07:37SPEAKERas well as like tiny little HDR highlight areas,

1:07:42SPEAKERif that makes sense.

1:07:43SPEAKER- I just wanna see the 136 inch big TV, Brad.

1:07:46SPEAKER- Yeah, that's cool.

1:07:48SPEAKERIt's very good news that micro LED is happening, finally.

1:07:53SPEAKER- Yeah, it's been a while.

1:07:54SPEAKERIt's been a while since we had a new one.

1:07:55SPEAKER- God, yeah, it's been since the late teens, I think.

1:07:59SPEAKERThe mid to late teens, the micro LED has been discussed,

1:08:01SPEAKERso for it to be finally reaching the market is cool.

1:08:05SPEAKERThat makes this Panasonic OLED way less exciting.

1:08:08SPEAKER- Well, I mean-

1:08:09SPEAKER- Although OLEDs are affordable now,

1:08:11SPEAKERand micro LED is probably five plus years away

1:08:13SPEAKERfrom anything like an affordable consumer set.

1:08:16SPEAKERMaybe not five, but something like that.

1:08:18SPEAKER- I would guess we'll see some like

1:08:19SPEAKERtwo to $5,000 sets next year.

1:08:21SPEAKERI could, I would get, looking at the way OLED went,

1:08:24SPEAKERI would bet like $10,000 sets next year, maybe.

1:08:27SPEAKER- I think if I remember right, with Plasma,

1:08:30SPEAKERwhen Panasonic rolled out that 90 inch or 100 inch,

1:08:33SPEAKERwhatever, the one that required 240 volt power

1:08:36SPEAKERand Kevin Smith put in his bedroom,

1:08:38SPEAKERI feel like that was like a year to two years

1:08:42SPEAKERbefore the moment for Plasma.

1:08:45SPEAKER- It's pretty underwhelming

1:08:46SPEAKERnow that we've talked about micro LED,

1:08:47SPEAKERbut Panasonic had their new OLED there.

1:08:49SPEAKERI mean, everybody had new OLEDs,

1:08:50SPEAKERlike all the TV manufacturers announced at CES,

1:08:52SPEAKERbut you remember me getting all excited a few months ago

1:08:55SPEAKERwhen Panasonic abruptly reentered the American market

1:08:58SPEAKERfor the first time in like 10 years.

1:09:00SPEAKERThey announced their new OLED,

1:09:01SPEAKERwhich looks very good in some ways.

1:09:05SPEAKERWhat I've written here is new Panasonic OLED monkey's paw.

1:09:07SPEAKER- Yeah, that seems right.

1:09:08SPEAKER- Because it's, apparently it is brighter

1:09:12SPEAKERthan last year's flagship LG, which I don't know if you,

1:09:14SPEAKERprobably don't follow TVs obsessively,

1:09:16SPEAKERbut the high-end LGs last year had way higher brightness

1:09:20SPEAKERthan even the mid range ones last year.

1:09:22SPEAKERLike it was a special feature

1:09:23SPEAKERat the top end of LG stuff last year.

1:09:25SPEAKERSo for Panasonic to be out with an OLED

1:09:28SPEAKERthat is brighter than LG's best from last year

1:09:30SPEAKERis a pretty big deal.

1:09:30SPEAKER- It's two, two OLEDs in one though, Brad.

1:09:32SPEAKER- Yeah, I did not know they were using two OLED panels

1:09:35SPEAKERto achieve that.

1:09:35SPEAKERThat's interesting.

1:09:37SPEAKERThe stuff that was monkey paw for me

1:09:39SPEAKERis that they have crammed an entire Dolby Atmos speaker setup

1:09:42SPEAKERinto that TV.

1:09:44SPEAKER- So it's a thick boy?

1:09:45SPEAKER- Apparently has made it very thick,

1:09:47SPEAKERwhich I've been on the record repeatedly.

1:09:50SPEAKERI want a TV with no speakers.

1:09:52SPEAKERLike just give me a monitor.

1:09:54SPEAKERGive me a 77 inch monitor.

1:09:56SPEAKER- I'm gonna say the other day

1:09:57SPEAKERI thought my receiver had finally crapped out

1:09:59SPEAKERand I was like, oh man, I have to go to Best Buy tomorrow

1:10:01SPEAKERand get a thing because my TV doesn't have speakers in it.

1:10:04SPEAKERSo there are moments when I've been excited

1:10:06SPEAKERto have speakers in my TV.

1:10:08SPEAKERThey're few and far between.

1:10:09SPEAKER- I guess it's nice to have a fallback, but I don't know.

1:10:12SPEAKERI just, look, I wish there were both, you know,

1:10:15SPEAKERlike it'd be fine for people who want that,

1:10:16SPEAKERbut I would prefer a thinner and cheaper TV

1:10:19SPEAKERwithout a ridiculous audio setup crammed into it.

1:10:22SPEAKERIt's just not the place for big speakers in the TV.

1:10:26SPEAKER- You don't need it, yeah.

1:10:27SPEAKER- Oh, the other thing, and then we knew this from last year,

1:10:29SPEAKERbut they are still running Amazon Fire TV as their OS.

1:10:32SPEAKER- No, thank you.

1:10:33SPEAKER- Which I don't love based on Amazon's general trajectory,

1:10:37SPEAKERnot to mention the people who use it in TVs.

1:10:40SPEAKERMy TV reviewers generally seem to cite Fire TV

1:10:44SPEAKERas a negative when it's built into the TV.

1:10:46SPEAKER- I think Roku and Fire are both a negative for me

1:10:48SPEAKERat this point, honestly.

1:10:50SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, I can't say I've had a great experience

1:10:52SPEAKERwith Google TV in this high sense either.

1:10:54SPEAKER- I mean, the solution is always spend 150 bucks

1:10:56SPEAKERon an Apple TV and just don't get into the internet, but.

1:10:59SPEAKER- Yeah, which ironically, it's not spending the money

1:11:01SPEAKERon an Apple TV or similar device that bothers me.

1:11:04SPEAKERIt's the burning an HDMI port.

1:11:05SPEAKER- Yeah, that's true.

1:11:06SPEAKER- It's because ports are kind of, good ports especially,

1:11:09SPEAKER2.1 ports are at a premium these days.

1:11:11SPEAKERThere are not that many of them.

1:11:12SPEAKERSo having to burn one just because your TV software sucks

1:11:15SPEAKERis not fun, anyway.

1:11:17SPEAKER- The one thing I didn't get from the CES vibes yet,

1:11:20SPEAKERand it's gonna, something I'm gonna ask folks

1:11:21SPEAKERwho cover this one when I have a chance,

1:11:23SPEAKERis if there's more HDMI 2.1 ports on devices this year.

1:11:28SPEAKERTypically that, there's usually a year or two

1:11:31SPEAKERwhere there's like one port per device,

1:11:32SPEAKERwhere you get one or two good ports

1:11:34SPEAKERand then a bunch of crap ports.

1:11:35SPEAKER- Yeah, like my TV has four ports,

1:11:38SPEAKERbut only two of them are the good ones.

1:11:39SPEAKER- Yeah, so are you switching consoles all the time

1:11:42SPEAKERor did you just have PlayStation plugged into one

1:11:43SPEAKERand Xbox plugged into the other?

1:11:45SPEAKER- Yeah, I've just, I've only got two consoles

1:11:46SPEAKERthat need it right now, so that's fine, but yeah.

1:11:49SPEAKER- You wanna talk about VLC?

1:11:50SPEAKERI thought this was cool.

1:11:52SPEAKER- Yeah, that's like one of the things I've written

1:11:54SPEAKERin the notes here, video land exhibits of CES, apparently.

1:11:58SPEAKER- They might've been at like Nvidia's booth

1:12:00SPEAKERor something like that.

1:12:02SPEAKER- I don't know.

1:12:02SPEAKERIt looked like their own booth based on the branding,

1:12:04SPEAKERbut I have no idea.

1:12:05SPEAKERBut it was our man, JB from the FOSPOD,

1:12:07SPEAKERJohn Baptiste Kempf, who we interviewed

1:12:10SPEAKERabout VLC a couple of years ago,

1:12:12SPEAKERwas the one giving these quotes.

1:12:14SPEAKERBut VLC is rolling out real time AI subtitling of videos,

1:12:18SPEAKERwhich is one of those like highly defensible good uses

1:12:22SPEAKERof AI, especially 'cause this is not,

1:12:24SPEAKERthis is exactly what I would expect from the VLC people.

1:12:26SPEAKERThis is not hitting any server,

1:12:28SPEAKERit is running entirely on your machine.

1:12:30SPEAKERAnd so this is the kind of thing that like,

1:12:32SPEAKERlike when we talk about the Intel NPU stuff last fall

1:12:35SPEAKERwhen they were announcing like all the co-pilot stuff,

1:12:37SPEAKERlike this is a good use

1:12:39SPEAKERof having machine learning hardware in everybody's PC.

1:12:41SPEAKER- Agreed.

1:12:42SPEAKER- And I wonder if this will work with CPU-based stuff

1:12:46SPEAKERor if this is only tying into GPUs for now, I don't know.

1:12:49SPEAKER- So they didn't,

1:12:52SPEAKERlike I haven't seen implementation details yet,

1:12:54SPEAKERbut anyway, they're specifically looking at it

1:12:57SPEAKERas an accessibility thing

1:12:59SPEAKERfor people who don't speak English.

1:13:01SPEAKER- Well, yeah.

1:13:01SPEAKERSo actually I think somebody hit him on Twitter.

1:13:03SPEAKERI saw, well, I believe the announcement

1:13:05SPEAKERwas just about subtitling, not translation,

1:13:07SPEAKERbut I saw somebody hit him on Twitter

1:13:10SPEAKERand he basically said like, yeah,

1:13:11SPEAKERthat translation is also going to happen.

1:13:13SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.

1:13:14SPEAKERSo shout out to VLC, man.

1:13:17SPEAKERAlways doing the good stuff.

1:13:18SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:13:19SPEAKER- What else do you want to hit?

1:13:20SPEAKERCan we talk about this video bird feeder?

1:13:22SPEAKER- What?

1:13:23SPEAKER- Do you know about, people put cameras on bird feeders?

1:13:27SPEAKER- Oh, well, that sounds good.

1:13:29SPEAKER- It captures little, like nice little clips and pictures

1:13:32SPEAKERand stuff of your birds on your bird feeder.

1:13:34SPEAKERI want a hummingbird feeder that has a camera.

1:13:36SPEAKERI haven't seen that yet.

1:13:37SPEAKERI think it's a specialty product,

1:13:39SPEAKERbut as somebody who lives in a place

1:13:40SPEAKERwhere there's like three or four different kinds

1:13:41SPEAKERof hummingbirds at any given time,

1:13:44SPEAKERthere's all sorts of good battles

1:13:45SPEAKERthat happen at my hummingbird feeder every day.

1:13:48SPEAKERBut the NetView bird, bird fee, bird fee two duo.

1:13:54SPEAKER- Yes, the NetView bird fee two duo.

1:13:56SPEAKER- Has two cameras, one that's like straight on.

1:13:58SPEAKERSo you're looking at them straight on

1:13:59SPEAKERand one from the side, which I really appreciated

1:14:02SPEAKER'cause I always want the side view

1:14:03SPEAKERon my webcam enabled bird feeder.

1:14:06SPEAKERAs much as it's easy to mock goofy,

1:14:09SPEAKERoverly complicated products at CES,

1:14:11SPEAKERthis actually sounds kind of great.

1:14:13SPEAKERAnd now I want to go find the picture of this

1:14:15SPEAKERand make it the show art.

1:14:16SPEAKER- Oh, I can send it to you.

1:14:18SPEAKERYeah, it's basically like a big green bird feeder

1:14:21SPEAKERand it has a camera arm off to the side.

1:14:24SPEAKERSo you get a wide shot of the birds on the feeder eating,

1:14:26SPEAKERlike get head on and profile shots, which is good.

1:14:30SPEAKER- So it's not a cheap bird feeder to be clear.

1:14:32SPEAKER- I mean, I don't think any of these camera bird feeders

1:14:34SPEAKERare cheap.

1:14:35SPEAKER- I think there's also kind of a lot of products,

1:14:36SPEAKERprojects that are bird feeder,

1:14:41SPEAKERcompatibly like you could make a video bird feeder

1:14:45SPEAKERpretty easily.

1:14:46SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, I'd probably need to start dabbling

1:14:49SPEAKERwith that at some point because like hackable smart cameras

1:14:52SPEAKERare getting absurdly cheap now,

1:14:54SPEAKERlike just a decent little 1080p IP camera

1:14:57SPEAKERthat you can put custom firmware on is like 20, 30 bucks now.

1:15:00SPEAKER- And like good quality ones too.

1:15:02SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, so you could make your own remote video

1:15:05SPEAKERenabled bird feeder pretty cheaply if you wanted.

1:15:07SPEAKER- So yeah, it's like 350 bucks is, 360 bucks is expensive.

1:15:11SPEAKERI think it's $60 while you pre-order

1:15:14SPEAKER'cause it's not available yet,

1:15:15SPEAKERbut it comes with the panel it looks like,

1:15:16SPEAKERso you can plug it in on a fence post someplace

1:15:19SPEAKERand not have to have power run to it, which is nice.

1:15:21SPEAKER- Yeah, that would probably be harder

1:15:23SPEAKERto implement yourself, the solar power.

1:15:25SPEAKER- I think for me, the hard part of the whole thing

1:15:27SPEAKERis the weatherproofing, right?

1:15:29SPEAKERLike.

1:15:30SPEAKER- Yeah, sure, yeah, you can, look, if you're a bird lover,

1:15:34SPEAKERthis probably is worth the 350 bucks or whatever.

1:15:37SPEAKER- Yeah, this would be the most expensive bird watching thing

1:15:39SPEAKERI've ever spent money on for the record.

1:15:41SPEAKER- Hey, birds are cool.

1:15:42SPEAKER- Birds are cool.

1:15:44SPEAKERAnything else, what else do you want to hit here?

1:15:46SPEAKER- Not really, I mean,

1:15:47SPEAKERI put a couple of real goofy things in here,

1:15:49SPEAKERlike in the weird laptop category.

1:15:51SPEAKERDid you see that Lenovo laptop with the rollable screen?

1:15:53SPEAKER- This is my favorite category of things

1:15:55SPEAKERthat are never gonna ship is the screen that unrolls.

1:15:58SPEAKER- Like I wanted to make that the show art

1:15:59SPEAKERbecause it looks so ridiculous.

1:16:00SPEAKERLike it's, to be clear,

1:16:03SPEAKERthe rolling part of the screen happens out of sight,

1:16:05SPEAKERnot, you don't have a roll visible on top of your laptop.

1:16:08SPEAKERIt rolls up inside the housing of the laptop.

1:16:11SPEAKERAnd the upshot is that you can extend

1:16:13SPEAKERthe laptop screen vertically to kind of a comical height.

1:16:15SPEAKER- You can make a tall, tall laptop.

1:16:17SPEAKER- It's a laptop with a very tall screen.

1:16:19SPEAKERJust looks ridiculous.

1:16:20SPEAKER- Yep.

1:16:21SPEAKER- Like this is good CES to me.

1:16:23SPEAKERLike this is the kind of dumb stuff that will never ship

1:16:25SPEAKERthat you want to see out of CES.

1:16:28SPEAKER- There was a lot of magic walking around in South Hall

1:16:31SPEAKERand LBCC and just finding like the small booth

1:16:33SPEAKERwith somebody who had a dream and a crazy idea.

1:16:36SPEAKER- Yeah, yes.

1:16:37SPEAKER- I mean, that's where we found like the nano coating

1:16:39SPEAKERwaterproof stuff that's now like a ubiquitous technology.

1:16:42SPEAKERRight?

1:16:43SPEAKER- Sure.

1:16:43SPEAKER- The Honda finally announced some EVs

1:16:47SPEAKERand like there's the Ophelia which is the Sony tie-in one

1:16:52SPEAKERthat was supposed to be able to play PlayStation games.

1:16:55SPEAKERI don't think that's gonna happen.

1:16:57SPEAKERPS5, I think it was like, they were,

1:16:59SPEAKERit was kind of surprising.

1:17:01SPEAKERThey also had concept cars.

1:17:04SPEAKERSo those are actually gonna ship this year, they say.

1:17:07SPEAKERYou can pre-order them apparently,

1:17:08SPEAKERbut I don't think you should.

1:17:09SPEAKER- Yeah, when we talk, we've talked about EVs

1:17:12SPEAKERoff and on on the show in the past,

1:17:14SPEAKERit always seemed crazy to me that Honda

1:17:15SPEAKERwas not in that market, so it seems like a big deal

1:17:17SPEAKERthat they are now.

1:17:18SPEAKER- Well, and the stuff they've shipped so far

1:17:19SPEAKERhas been like GM rebadges basically,

1:17:22SPEAKERor they buy GM powertrains and then put their own cars

1:17:25SPEAKERon top of them.