270: Cat o' Five Tails

00:00SPEAKERI think we're just living in a post-announcement, a post-reveal future at reality at this point.

00:05SPEAKERI don't think anything can stay secret anymore, at least as far as product announcements are

00:09SPEAKERconcerned.

00:10SPEAKERYeah.

00:11SPEAKERI mean, CES was full of things that we already knew about the, I mean, I guess the Nvidia

00:16SPEAKERstuff, they can actually kept the lid on kind of well, sort of, sort of not like the specs

00:22SPEAKERactually were pretty close to what had been rumored the prices, not quite, but we're minutes

00:27SPEAKERsince the, uh, the switch to announcement at this point or announcements on making shitty

00:31SPEAKERair quotes here, because there was literally nothing on that we didn't already know by

00:35SPEAKERthe time that video hit.

00:36SPEAKERAnd it looks like all of that Genki stuff from CES was, um, was just straight, it was

00:42SPEAKERstraight real.

00:43SPEAKERIt was straight legit.

00:44SPEAKERLike there was a story going around post CES that Nintendo lawyers have been in contact

00:48SPEAKERwith Genki.

00:49SPEAKERI mean, that's, it does seem like a pretty substantial mess up on, on their part, uh,

00:53SPEAKERthe switch to thing.

00:54SPEAKERIt looks like it looks rad.

00:55SPEAKERI don't know.

00:56SPEAKERI think it looks great.

00:57SPEAKERYeah.

00:58SPEAKERLike I'm stoked.

00:59SPEAKERLike actually, you know, it's stupid.

01:01SPEAKERI'm most excited about the actual, the stand actually being a working stand.

01:07SPEAKERReally dude, are you, are you the mythical playing Mario card on a rooftop with your

01:11SPEAKERfriends person?

01:12SPEAKERI'm going to go and tell you, there are so many times that I've been places with my kid

01:16SPEAKERwhere we've had the switch and it would be nice to be able to kill 20 minutes playing

01:20SPEAKERa video game with the shitty stand on the existing ones.

01:23SPEAKERJust doesn't work.

01:24SPEAKERI thought it, I thought it got way better on the OLED dude.

01:26SPEAKERThe OLED just sits, the OLED's Gina's.

01:28SPEAKERSo it just sits in the dock connected to the TV except when she's playing Mario Carter

01:31SPEAKERanimal crossing.

01:32SPEAKERI don't know.

01:33SPEAKERAll right.

01:34SPEAKERAnd the light doesn't have one of course, which makes sense kind of, but, um, but yeah,

01:37SPEAKERno, the, the, and the USB port on the top, cause when I play my switch, it's never charged.

01:42SPEAKERSo I'm sitting in a chair and I have to plug in and it's annoying to have the plug on the

01:45SPEAKERbottom instead of the top.

01:46SPEAKERWait, do you think that's what that's for?

01:48SPEAKERYeah.

01:49SPEAKERYou think you'd be able to charge on both boards?

01:50SPEAKERI assume so.

01:51SPEAKERWhat do you think it's for?

01:52SPEAKERI kind of figured it was like a feature connector, maybe USB headphones or something.

01:56SPEAKERI don't know.

01:57SPEAKERI don't think they're going to, I mean, I think they do Bluetooth headphones of anything.

01:59SPEAKERI mean, the right thing.

02:00SPEAKERI mean, the Apple like thing would be to make all of the USB ports charging ports, but Nintendo

02:04SPEAKERis definitely not Apple.

02:06SPEAKERBut on hardware stuff, they kind of are cause like they, the whole point of the hardware

02:10SPEAKERis to get out of the way of you doing the thing that you want to do with the thing,

02:13SPEAKERwhich is play games.

02:14SPEAKERYeah, kinda.

02:15SPEAKERLike, so my car has, for example, has five USB ports and only one of them works with

02:20SPEAKERcarplay.

02:21SPEAKERYeah.

02:22SPEAKERDo you know how they denote that?

02:23SPEAKERHow's that?

02:24SPEAKERIt has a white box around it that says USB.

02:26SPEAKERThat's it.

02:27SPEAKERSo like the rest of them are just dumb charging ports and it's a terrible way to communicate

02:31SPEAKERthis.

02:32SPEAKERSo they have to, like, if they're only gonna let you charge on the bottom one, they have

02:35SPEAKERto communicate that somehow, or they have to give us a right angle USB-C charger plug,

02:39SPEAKERwhich I guess is probably the right answer.

02:41SPEAKERYeah.

02:42SPEAKERI mean, honestly, I have no idea what else that top USB-C port would be for, but.

02:44SPEAKERI mean, they can put a camera, a little camera on it, just like a, you know, get, you know,

02:49SPEAKERthe long history of a Nintendo having a, a hat camera.

02:52SPEAKERYes.

02:53SPEAKERBring back the Game Boy camera.

02:54SPEAKERYeah, exactly.

02:55SPEAKERCall it the Game Boy camera.

02:56SPEAKEROr just make it a thing where you can get an adapter and plug your old Game Boy camera

03:00SPEAKERinto that.

03:01SPEAKERThat's even better.

03:02SPEAKERNow we're talking.

03:03SPEAKERNow we are talking.

03:04SPEAKERYeah.

03:05SPEAKERYeah.

03:06SPEAKERA lot, a lot of stuff to, to be revealed about that thing.

03:07SPEAKERI really want to know what kind of internal and external storage it's going to use.

03:09SPEAKERI cannot wait to see what they do with the mice.

03:13SPEAKERIs that a real thing?

03:14SPEAKERBoth Joy-Cons are mice.

03:16SPEAKERBoth Joy-Cons, they have optical sensors on the edges and you literally turn them on their

03:19SPEAKERside and you can use both of them as mice.

03:21SPEAKERIt's rad as hell.

03:23SPEAKERWhy?

03:24SPEAKERWhat are you going to ever use that for?

03:25SPEAKERI don't know.

03:26SPEAKERPossibly nothing.

03:27SPEAKERI mean, I sit on the couch.

03:28SPEAKERIt's a couch device.

03:29SPEAKERLook, optical sensors are good these days.

03:32SPEAKERYou could use those.

03:33SPEAKERYou could use a mouse on your knee or on the couch cushion if you need to.

03:35SPEAKERDo you think the optical sensor has resolution to get your heart rate so you can put your

03:39SPEAKERfinger against it and like your, your, your game gets like your heart rate determines

03:43SPEAKERhow the game goes for you?

03:45SPEAKERLike as, as already mentioned, Nintendo was definitely not Apple.

03:48SPEAKERNintendo loves, loves, loves, loves a human body sensor.

03:52SPEAKERThat's true.

03:53SPEAKERActually you're not wrong.

03:54SPEAKERYeah.

03:55SPEAKERInnovators and biometrics or whatever.

03:57SPEAKERYeah.

03:58SPEAKERThe thing that I'm interested to experience firsthand is the magnetic controllers because

04:03SPEAKERthey're using the smart magnet thing.

04:05SPEAKERYes.

04:06SPEAKERIt looks like, and also judging by the Genki leaks from CES, that where the, the magnets,

04:13SPEAKERyou apply a little bit of power and the magnets lock into place.

04:15SPEAKERYou, you apply a little bit of power and the magnets unlock, but there's no power.

04:19SPEAKERThat's the rumor.

04:20SPEAKERThe rumor is it's an on off magnetism thing.

04:22SPEAKERI've thing I want to know is, I mean, the, the one advantage of the rail is that when

04:25SPEAKERyou undo the latch on the rail thing doesn't just fall off cause it's still on the rail.

04:29SPEAKERSo does this have some kind of fail safe or do you hit the latch?

04:32SPEAKERI mean, not latch, but do you hit the magnetic release on this thing and they just fall off

04:36SPEAKERthe sides?

04:37SPEAKERI don't know.

04:38SPEAKERAnd, and I will say as somebody who bought a day one switch, the, the, the, the plastic

04:45SPEAKERrail on the, I guess it's the one side has metal and one side has plastic.

04:49SPEAKERIt's metal on the switch, on the console side, I think, and plastic on the Joy-Con side.

04:55SPEAKERWe managed to break one of those on our review unit switch at Giant Bomb, like before the

04:59SPEAKERthing even came out, somebody dropped it and then that one of the Joy-Cons never attached

05:03SPEAKERright again.

05:04SPEAKERBetween the Drifty Joy-Cons, when I dropped my launch switch, the, the controller just

05:09SPEAKERrocketed it off, but also the launch, this, this controllers that came with the launch

05:14SPEAKERone are weirdly like, they feel loose.

05:18SPEAKERYou know what I mean?

05:19SPEAKERThey're like a little wobbly in a way that doesn't feel great just as the plastic has,

05:23SPEAKERhas flexed over the years.

05:25SPEAKERAnd I hope that we don't have that with this.

05:27SPEAKERThis is a better one.

05:28SPEAKERI had to get way past that feeling because I put aftermarket shells on my Joy-Cons early

05:32SPEAKERon and those never feel like they fit quite right.

05:35SPEAKERBut anyway.

05:36SPEAKEROh, my, my aftermarket shells feel okay, but the, the, the optical sensor on the bottom

05:40SPEAKERhas never been right after that because I've messed up a ribbon cable.

05:44SPEAKEROkay.

05:45SPEAKERLast thing I'll say real quick, which maybe we should talk about this in more depth at

05:47SPEAKERsome point later, but when I, when we flew to North Carolina for the hurricane a couple

05:51SPEAKERof months ago, I pulled my switch out to bring with me and have not really looked closely

05:55SPEAKERat the switch for quite some time.

05:57SPEAKERAnd this was like 10 o'clock the night before a 6 a.m. flight and both of the Joy-Cons were

06:03SPEAKERbulging like dramatically, like the batteries were swelling badly in both of those Joy-Cons.

06:08SPEAKERWell how, it's 10, it's 11 years old now, 10 years old?

06:11SPEAKEROh no, no.

06:12SPEAKERUh, eight, almost eight.

06:13SPEAKERI'm out in 2017.

06:14SPEAKEROh, right.

06:15SPEAKERWe got to go ahead.

06:16SPEAKERMy daughter was three because she was watching me play, uh, uh, Zelda, Breath of the Wild.

06:21SPEAKERAnyway, I have, I have a spare set of Joy-Cons and I basically had to do emergency surgery

06:25SPEAKERlate at night before an early flight to take the other Joy-Cons apart and take the batteries

06:29SPEAKERout of those and put those batteries in the good Joy-Cons.

06:32SPEAKEROh yeah.

06:33SPEAKERThe whole thing.

06:34SPEAKERWell I, I hope they fix the, I hope they learn their lesson on the, on the, the cheap, uh,

06:38SPEAKERuh, sticks.

06:39SPEAKERYep.

06:40SPEAKERWe will see.

06:41SPEAKERAnd I'm curious what the extra button is.

06:42SPEAKERAnd I think the black one looks too black.

06:44SPEAKERI think it looks red.

06:45SPEAKERI think, I think a Nintendo should be colorful.

06:47SPEAKERI think the red and blue Joy-Cons look like toys and I think that inverting the color

06:51SPEAKERscheme was a very smart, tasteful choice and the little accents look, it's still got color.

06:56SPEAKERIt's got a little pop of color on it.

06:57SPEAKERLook, I, I have red and blue Joy-Cons on my Switch.

07:00SPEAKERI'm going to go ahead and tell you that right now.

07:02SPEAKERI love red and blue.

07:03SPEAKERI, I bought Waluigi ones too, but my, my wife uses those.

07:06SPEAKERIt looks, it looks too much like those old red and blue popsicle things.

07:09SPEAKERI just can't.

07:11SPEAKERNo, the power move, the power move was to find, cause the red and blue Switch was hard

07:15SPEAKERto find at launch and I had to find a friend who had bought blue Joy-Cons and trade one

07:20SPEAKERof my red Joy-Cons with them.

07:22SPEAKERSo we each had a blue and a red.

07:25SPEAKERSo there are some left blue and some right blue and you know, who's evil and who's good.

07:30SPEAKERYou know who I'm, you know who you are.

07:32SPEAKERYou're listening.

07:33SPEAKERYup.

07:34SPEAKERMoral alignment through console choice.

07:35SPEAKERExactly.

07:36SPEAKERWelcome to

08:05SPEAKERBrad and Will Made a Tech Pod.

08:06SPEAKERI'm Will.

08:07SPEAKERI'm Brad.

08:08SPEAKERApologies for the audio issues last week.

08:09SPEAKERMy mic was hot and I didn't realize it until it was already too late and we had recorded

08:13SPEAKERan episode.

08:14SPEAKERSo I had gotten most of the way through editing the episode before I realized it was a real

08:18SPEAKERproblem.

08:19SPEAKERBut also I went back and checked your recording and I don't, I don't think there's much to

08:21SPEAKERdo when you're clipping in the original recording.

08:24SPEAKERThere's not a lot you can do.

08:25SPEAKERI don't think you can use isotope.

08:27SPEAKERThere's a couple of things that'll make it sound less clippy, but it doesn't actually

08:30SPEAKERfix the problem.

08:31SPEAKERIt just kind of masks it.

08:32SPEAKERSo, and then I would have had to do all the editing over again, which was not an option.

08:35SPEAKERSo yeah, that's the one thing I don't like about Audacity cause on Audition, if you like,

08:41SPEAKERif you were editing on Audition, if you had done all the edits and then we realized that

08:45SPEAKERI could have run it through isotope and you just give you the source file and re-import

08:51SPEAKERreplace the existing source file and it would have fixed the problem.

08:55SPEAKERYeah.

08:56SPEAKERI could have exported your track and had you do that and then brought that back in and

08:58SPEAKERpreserve the edits, I guess.

08:59SPEAKERBut anyway.

09:00SPEAKEROh, I didn't think about that.

09:01SPEAKERYeah.

09:02SPEAKERThat would have been easy lesson for the future.

09:03SPEAKERHey, we're not, we're not professional audio engineers or editors here, but I don't, I don't

09:07SPEAKERknow.

09:08SPEAKERAt this point, I think we've done almost 300 episodes of this podcast.

09:10SPEAKERThat's true.

09:11SPEAKERI have actually, yes, I've been, I've been editing podcasts for over a decade now actually.

09:14SPEAKERYeah.

09:15SPEAKERSo I don't think we can say that anymore.

09:18SPEAKERWe're not professionally trained, I think because yeah.

09:20SPEAKERBut you know what we are professionals at Brad.

09:23SPEAKERWhat is that making tier lists of things, our first tier list ever, but we're already

09:29SPEAKERhere listing best in the business.

09:31SPEAKERLook, I, I, I'm going to rate you as an S tier Brad.

09:34SPEAKERWell, thank you.

09:35SPEAKERSame to you.

09:36SPEAKERSo we're thinking this might be the last one, but I don't know.

09:38SPEAKERMaybe not.

09:39SPEAKERThat was the intention.

09:40SPEAKERThat was the intention was to come in here and just clear, get, get this thing off the

09:43SPEAKERbooks rank or tier the rest of these connectors.

09:47SPEAKERI'm not sure that's going to happen in one episode looking at this list, but if we don't

09:50SPEAKERfinish it today, I think we'll space out the next one a bit.

09:52SPEAKERWell, yeah.

09:53SPEAKERCause we have, we have a, we have some, some, something I don't think I'm allowed to say

09:57SPEAKERwhat it is.

09:58SPEAKERWe have something for next week and then something else for the week after that, or the week

10:02SPEAKERafter that, that we're, we're pretty excited about both of those things.

10:05SPEAKERSo we'll let this one sit maybe until the next lull in the, in the tech, in the tech

10:10SPEAKERworld.

10:11SPEAKERYou know, just to be clear, things like ranking cables happen because things slow down around

10:15SPEAKERthe holidays.

10:16SPEAKERSometimes the intention originally was to just come up with a two parter that we could

10:20SPEAKERdo in one shot and roll out over the holidays.

10:23SPEAKERSo we'd get a week off from the podcast, but yeah, a two parter.

10:26SPEAKERBut look, ranking every connector ever made a serious business.

10:31SPEAKERIt's a hard, you know, it's a hard task.

10:33SPEAKERMost podcasts wouldn't take this on, you know, you don't see serial going out and saying,

10:37SPEAKERHey, we're going to rank every connector ever, or we're going to rank every murder ever or

10:41SPEAKERwhatever.

10:42SPEAKERIt's like one of the darker things I have ever heard about content production in my

10:48SPEAKERlife.

10:49SPEAKERWhat's your number one murder, Brad?

10:50SPEAKERThat's the question.

10:51SPEAKERI'm just not even going to touch that.

10:53SPEAKEROkay.

10:54SPEAKEROkay.

10:55SPEAKEROkay.

10:56SPEAKERSo, uh, for people who are just joining, I'm sorry.

10:58SPEAKERAnd hello.

10:59SPEAKERUh, the criteria are ease of use, meaning can you do this without having to eyeball

11:05SPEAKERit?

11:06SPEAKERIs it fiddly?

11:07SPEAKERDoes it have like a USB superposition is a strong negative here where ups and downs and

11:10SPEAKERthen backups again, um, is it reliable?

11:13SPEAKERDoes it have a locking mechanism?

11:15SPEAKERDoes the, does it wear out?

11:16SPEAKERIf you use it too much, uh, duty site, Oh, is the, is the cable like, is the connector

11:22SPEAKERsturdy so that it can take a little bit of pull on the cable without, without getting

11:26SPEAKERjacked up, uh, duty cycle fits into that duty cycles, the number of times you can use it

11:30SPEAKERwithout the connector failing.

11:32SPEAKERUh, and then we're literally, literally just talking about connectors here.

11:36SPEAKERWe're not talking about cables.

11:37SPEAKERWe're not talking about the protocols.

11:39SPEAKERWe're not talking about, um, what runs over the cable necessarily.

11:43SPEAKERSo like in the example of RCA cable, that's a, the RCA component, uh, RCA audio, uh, composite

11:54SPEAKERvideo, component video, all the same connector as far as we're concerned.

11:58SPEAKERI mean, I look, I'm going to continue applying a soft, what does this connector let you do

12:02SPEAKERstandard to this ranking?

12:04SPEAKEROkay.

12:05SPEAKEROkay.

12:06SPEAKEROkay.

12:07SPEAKERBut, uh, so, so here we've done a bunch of these already.

12:10SPEAKERThere's a spreadsheet shared in the, in the, in the show notes, uh, folks made a tier list

12:16SPEAKERtier maker thing last week.

12:17SPEAKERHmm.

12:18SPEAKERThank you for that.

12:19SPEAKERUh, I said, thank you for that.

12:21SPEAKERYeah.

12:22SPEAKERThank you.

12:23SPEAKERThat was, that happened.

12:24SPEAKERI, I was like, maybe somebody will make a tier maker.

12:25SPEAKERAnd that happened before I woke up in the morning.

12:27SPEAKERSo that was really cool.

12:28SPEAKERUh, we've done a bunch already.

12:31SPEAKERWe're not going to recap.

12:32SPEAKERI don't think cause it's too many to go over at this point.

12:34SPEAKERYeah.

12:35SPEAKERAlthough I got a shocking amount of support for the Apple desktop bus on the discord after

12:39SPEAKERlast time.

12:40SPEAKERLook, I got to say my feelings about the mini micro USB have changed as well based on arguments

12:47SPEAKERfrom the community.

12:48SPEAKERSure.

12:49SPEAKERThey don't like it.

12:50SPEAKERI think they're right.

12:51SPEAKERI think they're right to not like it.

12:52SPEAKERMicro USB.

12:53SPEAKERI mean, it's not, I wouldn't say it's terrible, but it's not good.

12:55SPEAKERWe haven't put micro USB on the list yet though.

12:57SPEAKERWe put wide micro.

12:58SPEAKERYes.

12:59SPEAKERStraight up micro USB.

13:00SPEAKERI mean, do you want to just, why don't we just do that?

13:01SPEAKERJust get in there?

13:02SPEAKERMicro USB is I'm going to say like C tier at best.

13:06SPEAKEROh, I think it's F.

13:07SPEAKERReally?

13:08SPEAKERYeah.

13:09SPEAKERInvented the USB super position.

13:10SPEAKEROkay.

13:11SPEAKERSo good things.

13:12SPEAKERIt was the first like widely adopted standard for charging across different classes of devices.

13:17SPEAKEROh, well many, many was in wide use before that.

13:21SPEAKERMini was only, was hardly ever used for charging.

13:23SPEAKERMini was mostly used for data and cameras and stuff like that.

13:25SPEAKERGotta give you like a standard for charge.

13:27SPEAKERI mean, plenty of things did charge over mini USB, but I guess maybe it was not standardized

13:30SPEAKERin the sense that like the EU mandated it or whatever.

13:34SPEAKERI think the only things I can think of that charged on USB mini were the PlayStation controller

13:40SPEAKERtwo controller.

13:41SPEAKERYes.

13:42SPEAKERThree was over mini USB.

13:43SPEAKERAnd the Wii pro controller was also USB mini.

13:46SPEAKERThat was also mini USB.

13:48SPEAKERBut like there were a bazillion cameras and camcorders and stuff that couldn't draw enough

13:51SPEAKERpower to charge over USB at that point.

13:54SPEAKERInteresting.

13:55SPEAKEROkay.

13:56SPEAKERSo it wasn't until micro that we got into the PD and all that stuff.

13:58SPEAKERYeah.

13:59SPEAKERWe're talking mini USB-A to be clear here.

14:01SPEAKERYeah.

14:02SPEAKERMini is the, the one with the flanges.

14:04SPEAKEROh yeah.

14:06SPEAKERMini is the, is the flange.

14:07SPEAKERIt has like, it has like a, I don't know, it looks like it's got a little whoosh swoop

14:13SPEAKERon the, on the bottom.

14:14SPEAKERYes.

14:15SPEAKERThe bottom's wider than the top.

14:16SPEAKERThat's right.

14:17SPEAKERNoticeably.

14:18SPEAKERSo I think that's better than a micro, right?

14:21SPEAKERI don't know.

14:22SPEAKERI, those are, those both are the same kind of mediocre to me, honestly, one is just slightly

14:27SPEAKERbigger than the other.

14:28SPEAKERLike what, what advantages does micro have over mini?

14:30SPEAKERI mean, is it, is that a power delivery thing?

14:32SPEAKERLike, is there actual difference in the spec there?

14:34SPEAKERNo, I believe they're physically compatible.

14:36SPEAKERI think it's cheaper to make probably is why it got popular.

14:39SPEAKERCause it's smaller.

14:40SPEAKERI mean, if anything, it's also smaller, it's smaller and thinner and lower profile.

14:43SPEAKERIt's also much harder to discern top from bottom just by looking at it, even the top

14:48SPEAKERof the bottom are almost the same.

14:49SPEAKERI mean, if anything, I think micro might be worse than mini cause it's flimsier.

14:53SPEAKEROh yeah.

14:54SPEAKERI think mini is a better as a firmer, stronger, better connector in every way that is important.

14:59SPEAKERNot that much better to be clear.

15:00SPEAKERI think they're both kind of whatever, but I'm going to say, I'm going to say mini B

15:06SPEAKERis like a C wait, we're talking mini B or mini a, well, I mean, I might as well do these

15:11SPEAKERboth at the same time.

15:13SPEAKERI think mini Oh, mini a is rare.

15:15SPEAKERWe don't, I don't think we need to talk about mini a, nobody use hardly anybody uses mini

15:18SPEAKERa.

15:19SPEAKEROh, I'm sorry.

15:20SPEAKERI have been using the wrong terms here.

15:22SPEAKERI have been talking about the mini B this whole time.

15:24SPEAKERWow.

15:25SPEAKERYeah.

15:26SPEAKERMini B is the one you know, both of the connectors we're ranking here with any real familiarity

15:31SPEAKERthat people know are B's mini B and micro B are the ones that we're talking about here.

15:36SPEAKERI'd looking at mini a and micro a, I don't think I've ever seen either one of those actually.

15:41SPEAKERAnd apparently, apparently the a connectors are the host side connectors.

15:45SPEAKERCorrect.

15:46SPEAKERThat I believe that is correct.

15:47SPEAKERYeah.

15:48SPEAKERThey're usually denoted by white in plastic inside the, inside the, the sheath.

15:53SPEAKERThe mini a is a weird shape, even it's a different shape than the mini B.

15:56SPEAKERThe micro a is basically the same shape as the micro B.

15:59SPEAKERYeah.

16:00SPEAKERIt looks a little more squarish.

16:01SPEAKERIt might be a little more square.

16:02SPEAKERI don't know that I've ever seen a micro a I've definitely seen a mini a before on like

16:07SPEAKERa GPS receiver or something weird.

16:09SPEAKEROkay.

16:10SPEAKERBut basically something you're almost never going to come into contact with.

16:12SPEAKERI mean, the we're talking, we're talking connectors that plug into cameras and controllers and

16:16SPEAKERthings and phones and things that people actually use.

16:19SPEAKERYeah.

16:20SPEAKERI don't think we should talk.

16:21SPEAKERI don't, I don't think I I'm not positioned to rank either of those.

16:23SPEAKERI don't think.

16:24SPEAKERI don't think I think are too obscure to even bother with here.

16:27SPEAKERAnyway, we're talking about mini B and micro B just, just a point of order here.

16:32SPEAKERAnd now, now I am educated here that these are both B connectors, USB, man, I feel like

16:39SPEAKERthe, I feel like the proceeding conversation knocks a tear off of both of these just on

16:44SPEAKERgeneral principle.

16:45SPEAKERThe fact that this is that confusing.

16:46SPEAKERI don't, I mean, look, I think I look, I think mini B is a solid C tier, right?

16:52SPEAKERIt's not easy to plug in.

16:54SPEAKERIt's pretty reliable, but it has all the, probably the same problems as many as micro

16:58SPEAKERmicro B. Right.

17:01SPEAKERYes.

17:02SPEAKERYes.

17:03SPEAKERBut I think micro, I think micro is a solid, like I would put micro down with lightning

17:09SPEAKERin the F tier as far as if it was my personal ranking.

17:12SPEAKERThey're both carbo.

17:13SPEAKERStill.

17:14SPEAKERWell, I will never understand your animus for lightning.

17:17SPEAKERIt's proprietary garbage because there was nothing better and they'd got tired of waiting.

17:22SPEAKERSo they had to make something themselves.

17:24SPEAKERLightning's in S tier.

17:25SPEAKERWe got to fix that.

17:26SPEAKEROkay.

17:27SPEAKERAnyway.

17:28SPEAKEROkay.

17:29SPEAKERWe'll, we'll deal with that when we get to the top of the list.

17:30SPEAKERI'm I think micro is a solid, like D I think micro, I'm just going to write it in here.

17:37SPEAKERRight after USB three, micro B as a matter of fact, I'm going to say many is C like in

17:44SPEAKERmy mind, many is, is a snugger connection is a bit sturdier than micro micro just feels

17:50SPEAKERvery flimsy to me.

17:51SPEAKERYeah, that works.

17:54SPEAKERAll right.

17:55SPEAKERWe're going to, we're going to have to revisit lightning at some point, but in the interest

17:58SPEAKERof moving forward, I'm going to let this go.

17:59SPEAKERI don't know.

18:00SPEAKERI don't know.

18:01SPEAKERThe lightning is S tier, but I don't think it's much below a I lightning is, I think

18:08SPEAKERlightning was a bad design that got better over time.

18:11SPEAKEROkay.

18:13SPEAKERWhat else?

18:14SPEAKERWhat else?

18:15SPEAKERI picked, I picked some big ones there at the start.

18:16SPEAKERWhat do you got?

18:17SPEAKERMaybe we should just start at the top and go down for a bit in the interest of putting

18:21SPEAKERthis whole thing to bed.

18:23SPEAKERDid we do USB type B?

18:25SPEAKERNo, we did not.

18:26SPEAKERYeah, we'll be sure we could go ahead and do that while we're talking to USB.

18:30SPEAKEROkay.

18:31SPEAKERWell then I want to highlight that.

18:32SPEAKERThat's that's the printer one, right?

18:34SPEAKERThat's the host side.

18:35SPEAKERYeah.

18:36SPEAKERYeah.

18:37SPEAKERThat's like the printer or it's a, it's like, it looks like a square with the two top corners

18:39SPEAKERcut off.

18:40SPEAKERRight.

18:41SPEAKERIt is a, it is the other end of your original USB cable that plugged into the printer or

18:47SPEAKERthe hard drive or whatever.

18:48SPEAKEROh, there were hard drives that use those.

18:50SPEAKERYeah.

18:51SPEAKERLike I think I'd swear like printers, I think are the only thing I can ever think of plugging

18:56SPEAKERa type B USB connector into.

18:58SPEAKERSo when you used to, when an external hard drive was in a big giant shell and had like

19:02SPEAKERsome SD card ports or something on it too, that was, that was a type B maybe like a card

19:08SPEAKERreader at some point or something like that.

19:10SPEAKERYeah.

19:11SPEAKERLike a big card reader would have had that.

19:12SPEAKERNow they know a card reader have mini or C probably micro C rather.

19:15SPEAKERI like type, I like USB B. I think there's something like industrial feeling about it

19:20SPEAKERto me.

19:21SPEAKERThere's something, there's something that like you would only ever see it in professional

19:23SPEAKERenvironments ish.

19:26SPEAKERI don't, I don't, I don't know if I assign it with professional environments, but it

19:30SPEAKERseems robust.

19:31SPEAKERIt's sturdy.

19:32SPEAKERIt's got a nice, it's got a nice long plastic sheath on it to kind of keep it, keep it aligned

19:40SPEAKERand prevent cable stress on the end.

19:42SPEAKERI like that.

19:43SPEAKERI think like lightning, which has nothing to prevent cable stress and is just going

19:46SPEAKERto fail over time.

19:47SPEAKERYes, I think, I think that's not true at all.

19:51SPEAKERI think USB type B is a solid B as a matter of fact.

19:55SPEAKERI look, that's like crazy, but yeah.

19:58SPEAKEROkay.

19:59SPEAKERB I keep forgetting.

20:00SPEAKERWe have S2.

20:01SPEAKERYeah.

20:02SPEAKERIt could be a B. It could be a B. It's better than USB mini B, which is at C.

20:05SPEAKEROkay.

20:06SPEAKERYou know, it's funny.

20:07SPEAKERWe already have it on there.

20:08SPEAKERWe have type B on there already.

20:09SPEAKERSo perfect.

20:10SPEAKERThe system works.

20:11SPEAKERWe did not highlight it in the doc.

20:12SPEAKERLook.

20:13SPEAKERIt was highlighted in the doc.

20:14SPEAKERI couldn't find it when I was scrolling through the tier list.

20:17SPEAKEROkay.

20:18SPEAKERSo this is good.

20:19SPEAKERLook, sometimes we got to do it.

20:20SPEAKERYou got to do a re re-grade just to see, make sure you land in the right place.

20:24SPEAKERRight.

20:25SPEAKERSystem's working.

20:26SPEAKERThe science is happening.

20:27SPEAKERThat's correct.

20:28SPEAKERYou want to start at the top?

20:29SPEAKERRCA.

20:30SPEAKERRCA.

20:31SPEAKERThis is an S tier for me.

20:32SPEAKERIt's analog.

20:33SPEAKERIt's super robust.

20:34SPEAKERI have 40 year old RCA cables that are still, the connectors are still good.

20:38SPEAKERThat's fair.

20:39SPEAKERIt does.

20:40SPEAKERHonestly, the RCA feels pretty good to plug in.

20:42SPEAKERI think.

20:43SPEAKERIt's just nice.

20:44SPEAKERNo click.

20:45SPEAKERYeah.

20:46SPEAKERIt's weird.

20:47SPEAKERIt's weird.

20:48SPEAKERCause you would think, I mean, it's mushy and you think you would think a mushy connector

20:51SPEAKERwould not be satisfying to plug in, but it kind of is actually.

20:54SPEAKERI would love to plug in more mushy connectors, honestly.

20:57SPEAKERSomething that has like a little shh, like it feels like it should make a shh sound.

21:02SPEAKERIt's got grip to it.

21:03SPEAKERThere's there's some friction when you plug in an RCA.

21:05SPEAKERI mean, I can't think of a loose RCA cable I've ever used.

21:08SPEAKERThe ports tend to hold up over time.

21:10SPEAKERRight.

21:11SPEAKERAnd in the nineties, I definitely had some bad RCA cables that I bought at like Radio

21:14SPEAKERShack or something that were kind of janky and got loose, but, but I figured that's a

21:18SPEAKERRadio Shack problem, not an RCA connector problem.

21:22SPEAKERIt's also used for a bunch of different things, like it's RCA, it's the component.

21:26SPEAKERIt's the it's audio, it's video.

21:28SPEAKERIt's just sends analog signals.

21:30SPEAKEROkay.

21:31SPEAKERYeah.

21:32SPEAKERI think that's a solid A at worst.

21:35SPEAKERI guess, I guess the only knock against it is that it's like single channel, single signal,

21:41SPEAKERright?

21:42SPEAKERIs that a knock?

21:43SPEAKERNot really.

21:44SPEAKERI mean, it requires more of them.

21:45SPEAKERYeah.

21:46SPEAKERAnd there's no way to balance it.

21:47SPEAKERSo it is susceptible to noise, which is bad.

21:50SPEAKERThat's what, you know, like you're, you're going to need as many, as many like channels

21:53SPEAKERor data signals as you need, you're going to have that many plugs, which obviously can

21:56SPEAKERget when you got like, I mean, at the same time, you got to think about those big component

22:02SPEAKERcables with a, with an RCA stereo on the side and you have five big chonky RCA dongles hanging

22:09SPEAKERout at the end of that thing.

22:10SPEAKERThere is something kind of comical about the component cable, the five.

22:16SPEAKERDon't cross your power cable with that thing, man.

22:19SPEAKERThe cat 05 tails of the component cable is kind of funny.

22:24SPEAKERThat's our first merch is a, is a, is a leather whip with a bunch of RCA cables on the end.

22:30SPEAKERSo I'm trying to think what the first component cable I got was PS two, maybe yes, two game

22:39SPEAKERcubes somewhere around there.

22:40SPEAKERI felt a game cube for me.

22:42SPEAKERI felt very fancy when I got my first component cables.

22:44SPEAKEROh no, I had a, I had a DVD player that had component cables, but yeah, I think, I think,

22:51SPEAKERI think I could, I could go a far as, yeah, I think RCA is a solid a connector.

22:56SPEAKERWe're just a heavy continuing to have a heavy analog bias on this tier rank.

23:01SPEAKERI mean, except for that bad lightning cable at the top, everything is, everything else

23:04SPEAKERis analog.

23:05SPEAKERI guess lightning is the lightning is the single most satisfying cable to plug in on

23:10SPEAKERthis entire list.

23:11SPEAKERYou are incorrect, dude, go get an old iPhone with a lightning port on it and then get a

23:16SPEAKERcurrent one of the USB-C port on it, plug those cables in and then wiggle them back

23:19SPEAKERand forth.

23:20SPEAKERI try to live my life in such a way that I don't have to plug in my USB-C cable very

23:23SPEAKERmuch USB-C connectors have a subtle give in them.

23:27SPEAKERThat is a bit concerning to me and lightning is like as solidly in that port as anything

23:32SPEAKERhas ever been.

23:33SPEAKERYeah.

23:34SPEAKERBut the problem is that then, then your CA when your cable feels any torsion instead of

23:38SPEAKERmoving along the wet length of the thing, it just bends at the, at the breaking point,

23:42SPEAKERright at the end of that lightning dongle, right?

23:44SPEAKERBut it's on the connect.

23:45SPEAKERIt's on the cable, not on the port.

23:46SPEAKERLike it's designed in such a way that the connector or the cable connector is what gives

23:51SPEAKERnot the port, which is the expensive thing to replace.

23:53SPEAKERI feel like the failures on that over the first 10 years were really bad.

23:58SPEAKERAnyway.

23:59SPEAKEROkay.

24:00SPEAKERBrad, what about S-video while we're doing analog video?

24:02SPEAKERSeparates luminance and chroma on four pins, it's a mini DIN four pin.

24:06SPEAKERYeah.

24:07SPEAKERS-video is a weird situation because we've already, okay, it can pass over mini DIN four

24:10SPEAKERpin, BNC and SCART and we have already ranked BNC and SCART as physical connectors.

24:16SPEAKERAnd mini DIN four pin is that Apple desktop bus thing too.

24:19SPEAKERTechnically have talked about that connector, although, so, I mean, we're getting into some

24:22SPEAKERweird gray area here where we're sort of ranking the connector, but also sort of ranking the

24:27SPEAKERelectrical use of it.

24:28SPEAKERWait, does this mean that S-video doesn't exist?

24:32SPEAKERNo S-video on this list.

24:33SPEAKERI guess it means S-video is what means whatever you want it to mean.

24:36SPEAKERI mean, the four pin, the round four pin mini DIN is absolutely what people know S-video

24:41SPEAKERas.

24:42SPEAKERI'm sure.

24:43SPEAKERYeah.

24:44SPEAKERI'm sure there are people in Europe who did S-video over SCART and X, Y, Z, you know,

24:48SPEAKERsomebody somewhere in a broadcast environment used BNC for S-video at some point or something,

24:52SPEAKERbut like 99.9% of consumer applications of S-video are over the four pin, right?

24:57SPEAKERYeah.

24:58SPEAKERA hundred percent.

24:59SPEAKERI've used, I've used BNC for S-video before for capturing stuff before off of like old

25:03SPEAKERfancy VHSs.

25:05SPEAKERBut I'm perfectly fine saying S-video does not exist.

25:08SPEAKERI put it below F tier.

25:10SPEAKERYeah.

25:11SPEAKERThat's okay.

25:12SPEAKERIt's a non, it's nothing.

25:13SPEAKERWe don't need to ever think about it again.

25:15SPEAKERIt's done.

25:16SPEAKERI think this would be like ranking composite video, not RCA, for example, I guess you're

25:21SPEAKERright.

25:22SPEAKERAlthough positive video can go over like a million different things.

25:24SPEAKERThe rules are, rules are complicated.

25:26SPEAKERI mean, theoretically you could do composite video over two coat hangers, right?

25:31SPEAKERSure.

25:32SPEAKERLike just jam a couple, hold one on one end and hold one on the other end and it'll work

25:36SPEAKERitself out.

25:37SPEAKERI'm sure that's been done before.

25:39SPEAKERIf not, I'm going to be, I'll see you on YouTube in a little bit.

25:42SPEAKEROkay.

25:43SPEAKERAnd S-video gets, gets, has been removed from all existence.

25:48SPEAKERNow I just want to see a YouTube channel that is devoted to nothing, but what signals you

25:52SPEAKERcan successfully pass over coat hangers.

25:54SPEAKERDoes it coat hanger?

25:55SPEAKEROkay.

25:56SPEAKERYou got to cut that out of the podcast.

25:57SPEAKERYou can't leave that in the podcast.

25:58SPEAKERThat's a really good idea.

25:59SPEAKERWe should call it technology connections.

26:01SPEAKEROh yeah.

26:02SPEAKEROkay.

26:03SPEAKERThat's probably up for grabs.

26:04SPEAKERRight.

26:05SPEAKERCause then you're using the coat hangers to connect the technology.

26:07SPEAKERRight.

26:08SPEAKERI think we should move off of video and audio and analog stuff for a minute, just in fairness.

26:12SPEAKERAnd I think we should do SATA.

26:14SPEAKERI think SATA is pretty good.

26:16SPEAKERYou didn't use SATA as much as I did.

26:18SPEAKERBrad.

26:19SPEAKERWhat are you talking about?

26:20SPEAKERI have used a lot of SATA.

26:21SPEAKERTrust me.

26:22SPEAKERYeah.

26:23SPEAKERBut, but, uh, the number that, that connector, the, the stumpy, you know how you said the

26:28SPEAKERthing you liked about lightning is that the expensive part is the difficult to break one

26:32SPEAKERand the easy part.

26:33SPEAKERYeah.

26:34SPEAKERSATA has the opposite problem.

26:35SPEAKERNo, you're not wrong.

26:36SPEAKERI have, I have broken one SATA port on a drive before in the recent past, like three years

26:41SPEAKERago.

26:42SPEAKERYeah.

26:43SPEAKERTo be fair, it was like a $20 SSD.

26:44SPEAKERAnd I think that I think the connector was just kind of cheaply made to begin with, but

26:47SPEAKERlike there is definitely too much potential to damage that port.

26:50SPEAKERI mean, now typically the cables would fail before the port before the stump on the port

26:56SPEAKERwould fail.

26:57SPEAKERUh, we're talking about internal SATA, just if for your, it's used for a SATA one, two,

27:02SPEAKERthree G and um, that's pretty much it.

27:04SPEAKERYeah.

27:05SPEAKERI think you said, uh, I think it's the same data standard, right?

27:07SPEAKERIt's just a different connector.

27:08SPEAKERAlthough it's not that different of a connector.

27:10SPEAKERIt's a, the connector has a, has a physical latching mechanism, but it's otherwise there's

27:14SPEAKERno key.

27:15SPEAKERWell, a lot of, a lot of internals, but actually the, the optional internal latch on SATA is

27:20SPEAKERalso a weird situation where some cables don't really, that came later.

27:25SPEAKERThat was a post-SATA one thing because it was, it was a problem with cables coming loose

27:29SPEAKERand shipment on computers.

27:30SPEAKERYeah.

27:31SPEAKERDoes that mean there are some drives that don't have latching mechanism?

27:34SPEAKERI would assume.

27:35SPEAKERI feel like, I feel like I have had tables with a little metal latch that don't actually

27:39SPEAKERmatch.

27:40SPEAKERLike you can still just pull them right out.

27:41SPEAKERDoes it click?

27:42SPEAKERYeah.

27:43SPEAKERThat makes sense.

27:44SPEAKERIt's more, I find it more useful on the motherboard end.

27:45SPEAKERThe drive end, it's hard to unplug usually accidentally.

27:47SPEAKERUh, I mean, I think, look for me, SATA is a middle of the road, right?

27:52SPEAKERLike it's fine.

27:53SPEAKERIt does the job.

27:54SPEAKERIt's okay.

27:55SPEAKERRelatively.

27:56SPEAKERIt's nice and small.

27:57SPEAKERI like that.

27:58SPEAKERLike you can pack a whole bunch of ports all in that one little spot on your motherboard.

28:01SPEAKERLike a big part of my enthusiasm was how much better it was than what it replaced or at least

28:05SPEAKERin the sense that it saved a lot of space over your 40 pin ID connector.

28:10SPEAKERYeah.

28:11SPEAKERYeah.

28:12SPEAKERBut do I miss it now when I'm plugging NVMe drives in my computer and don't have any SATA

28:15SPEAKERdrives anymore?

28:16SPEAKERNo, not at all.

28:17SPEAKERI don't have any fondness for the little, the, the, the, it has a mechanical latch on

28:22SPEAKERthe newer ones, but it's a, it's a puny, sad little latch doesn't, doesn't have any weight

28:27SPEAKERto it.

28:28SPEAKERIt doesn't feel, doesn't feel like you're doing something.

28:30SPEAKERIf you want to talk about what I do and don't miss about SATA versus NVMe, having to take

28:36SPEAKERmy entire computer apart just to do anything with drives, not my favorite.

28:41SPEAKERThere is something to be said for drives that still connect to cables that you don't have

28:45SPEAKERto pull your graphics card and ever end your, and potentially your CPU cooler and stuff

28:49SPEAKERoff in order to access the socket on the motherboard.

28:51SPEAKERLook, I'm increasingly on team plug all my NVMe's into a PCI express daughter card that

28:57SPEAKERjust rides in one of the, one of the 16 lane PCI express channels.

29:01SPEAKERSo then you can pop them out.

29:02SPEAKERI would be down for that.

29:03SPEAKERIf I had extra PCIE slots, how about what if they put more PCI slots on motherboards

29:07SPEAKERagain?

29:08SPEAKERI mean that, that is another, who needs four or five M.2 or NVMe sockets on their board?

29:14SPEAKERI have five NVMe drives in my board.

29:17SPEAKERWow.

29:18SPEAKERThose are filled.

29:19SPEAKERYeah.

29:20SPEAKERAnd I mean, I've got three, which feels like a lot, but oh, maybe it's only four.

29:23SPEAKERYeah.

29:24SPEAKERIt's only four.

29:25SPEAKERSorry.

29:26SPEAKERMy board has five sockets though.

29:27SPEAKERI would love to have a fifth.

29:28SPEAKERSo I would put, I would put it, if I had a fifth socket, I would put a drive in there.

29:31SPEAKERNo way, man.

29:32SPEAKERI, so here's the other problem with SATA is it's hard.

29:36SPEAKERIt's hard to get those cables are too small on the motherboard.

29:39SPEAKERAnd when you had like a chunk of six or eight SATA ports and you had to get to the bottom

29:44SPEAKERone of the top one or whatever, it was always a has I like, I, this feels like a C to me.

29:48SPEAKERYeah.

29:49SPEAKERYes.

29:50SPEAKERMaybe a B. I can maybe go with a B.

29:51SPEAKERI might, I might go C for SATA actually.

29:54SPEAKERI think there are definitely some downsides to it.

29:56SPEAKERBetter than what it replaced, but still not the best, but I still wish I could run cables

30:01SPEAKERto drives.

30:02SPEAKERYeah.

30:03SPEAKERI can see that.

30:04SPEAKERI mean, you can, you just have to, you have to get little NVMe extenders.

30:09SPEAKERYou need to get your vertical Mount NVMe drive cages and you put them up against your glass

30:14SPEAKERand your case so that everybody can see how many sick NVMe's you have.

30:17SPEAKERYes.

30:18SPEAKERActually, honestly, if I, if I can soapbox for 30 seconds here, if motherboard maker

30:21SPEAKERhas allowed you to disable, to digitally disable the NVMe drives and the bios, it would really

30:28SPEAKERnot be that big of a deal.

30:29SPEAKERLike you'd still have to take things apart to install new hardware and whatnot, but like

30:32SPEAKERthe inability to just disable a drive temporarily in the, in the bios is awful, terrible.

30:38SPEAKERMy bios does that.

30:39SPEAKERAre you sure?

30:40SPEAKERYeah.

30:41SPEAKERNot, not slots, but in like NVMe drives are PCI express slots is in the PCI express.

30:48SPEAKERYou need to go verify that because I was looking around at this recently and I could not find

30:52SPEAKERa motherboard that actually lets you do that.

30:54SPEAKERLike nobody lets you do that.

30:55SPEAKERYou can do it for SATA drives.

30:56SPEAKERLike, so that's the whole thing is that SATA, since the beginning of time, you can go in

31:00SPEAKERand disable individual SATA ports on your board.

31:04SPEAKERYou cannot do that with NVMe on my board or any board that I looked at.

31:09SPEAKERWhy do you want to disable individual SATA?

31:11SPEAKERI mean, the main thing is for, is for, the main thing is for operating system installs,

31:14SPEAKERparticularly windows.

31:15SPEAKEROh, oh, oh.

31:17SPEAKERWindows can be extremely poorly behaved if you have multiple drives installed.

31:22SPEAKERAnd so the safest thing is to disable every drive except the one you're installing windows

31:26SPEAKERto.

31:27SPEAKERAnd that problem compounds if you want to put Linux on your desktop or another operating

31:31SPEAKERsystem, which is something I might do this weekend, actually, which is why I'm thinking

31:35SPEAKERabout this right now.

31:36SPEAKERAnyway, we were far afield of the topic here.

31:38SPEAKERYeah.

31:39SPEAKERPick one.

31:40SPEAKERLet's see what you got.

31:41SPEAKERWhat do we got?

31:42SPEAKERI'll just ask the question since we're here, should we add M.2 to this list or is that

31:46SPEAKERout of scope?

31:47SPEAKERThat's a slot, not a connector.

31:49SPEAKERIs that a slot?

31:50SPEAKERI usually call it, think of it as a socket.

31:51SPEAKERIt's not a socket.

31:52SPEAKERA socket is a straight down.

31:54SPEAKERThis is a...

31:55SPEAKERI don't know if that sounds arbitrary to me.

31:57SPEAKERYeah.

31:58SPEAKERIt's a M.2.

31:59SPEAKERWell, hold on.

32:00SPEAKERLet's switch files.

32:01SPEAKERIt's not a cable though.

32:02SPEAKERIt's not a cable connector.

32:03SPEAKERSo it probably does not rank here.

32:04SPEAKERIt's a, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's like a, well, see, they don't say, I mean, even look

32:08SPEAKERat the SUSE motherboard manual right now.

32:10SPEAKERIt doesn't say whether it's an M.2 or, or what.

32:14SPEAKERI don't know.

32:15SPEAKERBut yeah, I'm, I'm fine.

32:18SPEAKERI am fine not having M.2 on here.

32:20SPEAKERThat's fine.

32:21SPEAKERYeah.

32:22SPEAKERIt's not a cable.

32:23SPEAKERAlthough it can be a cable.

32:24SPEAKERNot a cable.

32:25SPEAKERI mean, technically there are absolutely cables that terminate in M.2 out there, but...

32:28SPEAKERMost of them have some sort of USB bridge in between though.

32:31SPEAKERAnd I would not rank M.2 highly if I did rank it.

32:34SPEAKEROh, it's pretty robust.

32:36SPEAKERI mean, it's okay.

32:37SPEAKERI think the, well, the install is kind of cool.

32:39SPEAKERLike now we're just sitting here ranking it.

32:41SPEAKERI do.

32:42SPEAKERI do.

32:43SPEAKERWe're just ranking other things.

32:44SPEAKERI mean, I like the way the install where you stick it in at an angle and then you kind

32:46SPEAKERof push it down with some tension on it and then the little screw, like that's kind of

32:49SPEAKERneat, but...

32:50SPEAKERI just put it at the bottom of the list, I put not a connector M.2.

32:55SPEAKEROkay.

32:56SPEAKERFine.

32:57SPEAKERWhat about, what about micro?

32:59SPEAKERWhat about DVI?

33:00SPEAKERPlain old DVI?

33:01SPEAKERJust DVI.

33:02SPEAKERWell, there's no plain old DVI, there's DVI, DBAA, DVID.

33:06SPEAKERThat's the thing.

33:07SPEAKERThat's the thing.

33:08SPEAKERDVI is a Forney subject.

33:10SPEAKERIs it three connectors or is it one?

33:11SPEAKERThat's the first question.

33:12SPEAKERI mean, I guess that like the best focusing mechanism for this ranking is to just mainly

33:18SPEAKERtalk about the thing people know, because there are a bunch of different DVI's, but

33:23SPEAKERreally dual channel count is separate.

33:25SPEAKERThe DVI everybody knows is the one that came with their first LCD monitor in 2006 or whatever.

33:31SPEAKERYeah.

33:32SPEAKERProbably.

33:33SPEAKERDVI is okay.

33:34SPEAKERI think DVI is terrible.

33:35SPEAKERReally?

33:36SPEAKERYeah.

33:37SPEAKERIt has a million fiddly little pins.

33:39SPEAKERIf one of them gets bent, it never plugs in right again.

33:41SPEAKERWow, I've never had that happen.

33:43SPEAKERWell, it has two annoying screws on the side.

33:47SPEAKERThe cables were too heavy for the connector usually, especially on dual channel DVI.

33:54SPEAKERThe cables were so thick and heavy, like if you had a 2560 by 1600 panel, which I realized

33:59SPEAKERwas the first worldiest to first world problems, the cables for those were so beefy that the

34:05SPEAKERconnector you had to screw it in or it would fall out of the back of the monitor after

34:08SPEAKERabout a week and the number of pins on them were super fiddly.

34:14SPEAKERAlso, they were keyed in a way that wasn't immediately apparent to most people.

34:18SPEAKERSo if you had the wrong flavor of DVI cable, it wouldn't work with some monitors.

34:23SPEAKERSure.

34:24SPEAKERYes.

34:25SPEAKERThat's where the thorniness comes in for me is that there is that keying in there that

34:29SPEAKERis very subtle because it's like a plus or a dash or a, it's a little bit to the left

34:35SPEAKERof the pins.

34:36SPEAKERThere's a bunch of DVI's, a bunch of pins, and then on the left, there's the little,

34:39SPEAKERlike it's either a single horizontal metal piece or it's like a plus shape.

34:43SPEAKERAnd I think there's one other thing it can be as well.

34:44SPEAKERIt can be vertical as well.

34:47SPEAKERAnd we don't even need to get into that some DVI is digital and some is analog.

34:52SPEAKERI mean, actually I think that part is a pro, right?

34:55SPEAKERI think that the connector, the same connector could work for both digital and analog is

34:59SPEAKERa good thing.

35:00SPEAKERI think that's cool.

35:01SPEAKERI guess so, but I mean, and I never ran into this because I've only ever used one kind

35:04SPEAKERof DVI, which is just the kind of common consumer one, but some, it does lead to the potential

35:11SPEAKERfor confusion.

35:12SPEAKERYou know, if you have the wrong cable or you're trying to pass the wrong signal and you don't

35:15SPEAKERknow what's going on.

35:18SPEAKEROr if you try to plug it in and it's keyed the wrong way and you force it, you will just

35:22SPEAKERabsolutely destroy a really expensive monitor probably.

35:26SPEAKERNot that I ever had to deal with that.

35:27SPEAKERI, you know, I, I preferred DVI to VGA when it came along.

35:31SPEAKERI'll say that.

35:32SPEAKERSee the other thing that DVI enabled because it was, it was it, I guess it didn't have

35:36SPEAKERan accident.

35:37SPEAKERPut I guess they retconned copy protection into it later.

35:43SPEAKERDid they?

35:44SPEAKERYeah.

35:45SPEAKERYeah.

35:46SPEAKEREventually you could get a DVI HDCP thing, I believe wild.

35:50SPEAKERI look, I'm going to go and tell you, I think like the fact that it required screw on things

35:56SPEAKERto lock it into place on the side is like minus three tiers immediately.

35:59SPEAKERWell, hang on, we have anything else on this list that screws in that is ranked highly?

36:04SPEAKEROh yeah.

36:05SPEAKERNo.

36:06SPEAKEROkay.

36:07SPEAKERNo.

36:08SPEAKERThings that screw in are bad.

36:09SPEAKERThat's the, that's the rule.

36:10SPEAKERYeah, I guess so.

36:11SPEAKERI don't know.

36:12SPEAKERAmong things that screw in though DVI is, is among the less bad, I think.

36:15SPEAKEROh no.

36:16SPEAKERI like cereal is pretty good, DE9 is pretty good, VGA, okay.

36:22SPEAKERI guess.

36:23SPEAKERDE15 or whatever that is.

36:24SPEAKERYeah.

36:25SPEAKERThe joystick port, the DA15.

36:28SPEAKERThat's fine, I guess.

36:29SPEAKERI mean-

36:30SPEAKERIt's not great.

36:31SPEAKERNone of them are great.

36:32SPEAKERThis is, this is very situational and pretty relative, but I just remember when DVI came

36:36SPEAKERalong, I was excited.

36:37SPEAKERYou could get a digital connection for your signal finally, because like if you, you know,

36:40SPEAKERyour first, I don't know what your first LCD monitor was.

36:43SPEAKERMine was the classic Dell 2005 FPW.

36:47SPEAKERRemember those?

36:48SPEAKERYeah.

36:49SPEAKERYou know, my monitors.

36:50SPEAKEROh yeah.

36:51SPEAKERThe monitors.

36:52SPEAKERThat's the only, that's the only LCD you had until you got these new ones ever?

36:56SPEAKERYes.

36:57SPEAKERIt was sweet mother.

36:58SPEAKERAnyway.

36:59SPEAKERBut that thing came with VGA and DVI, and I remember like, if you didn't have a DVI port

37:03SPEAKERon your graphics card and you didn't have an adapter, you were just going straight VGA

37:07SPEAKERinto that thing.

37:08SPEAKERAnd that did not look good.

37:09SPEAKERNo.

37:10SPEAKERYeah, that's true.

37:11SPEAKERMoving to DVI was very exciting because I was like, man, this signal is perfectly clean.

37:14SPEAKERThis looks exactly like it's supposed to, but you could see, you could see interference

37:18SPEAKERif you use VGA into that monitor.

37:21SPEAKERThere was a different display connector before DVI for digital.

37:27SPEAKERYeah.

37:28SPEAKERIt was DFP, I think digital.

37:32SPEAKERIt was the, it was the, it was the one that was the, it was the HD DVD of that world digital

37:37SPEAKERflat panel.

37:38SPEAKERYeah.

37:39SPEAKERDFP.

37:40SPEAKERI've never heard of DFP before.

37:41SPEAKERWild.

37:42SPEAKERThat just kind of looks like a fat VGA.

37:44SPEAKERIt was a, no, it's, it's really skinny.

37:47SPEAKERIt's a really skinny.

37:48SPEAKERIt had clips.

37:49SPEAKERIt was good.

37:50SPEAKEROh, wait a minute.

37:51SPEAKERI think I might've seen that in professional environment at some point.

37:54SPEAKERYeah.

37:55SPEAKERYou I feel like Mac monitors had that for a minute and then also like, cause, cause it,

38:01SPEAKERit filled the gap before DVI DVI took off.

38:04SPEAKERBut anyway, we don't need to talk about that one.

38:08SPEAKERIt's not a, not a, like they sold like 18 of those probably.

38:11SPEAKERYes.

38:12SPEAKERI don't know.

38:13SPEAKERDVI could be like a B or C to me.

38:16SPEAKERI feel like a C is appropriate.

38:17SPEAKERSure.

38:18SPEAKERI've put DVI at C just because again, I have, I'm going to, I'm going to establish, I have

38:23SPEAKERa bias against a twist on twist, twist screw locks real quick, just because I meant to

38:29SPEAKERmention this and got sidetracked, but ESATA, since we were already at SATA, I meant to

38:34SPEAKERjust say, let's also rank that one in my initial suggestion was literally to put ESATA on the

38:39SPEAKERsame line as SATA, but you tell me, I used ESATA a fair amount.

38:43SPEAKEROkay.

38:44SPEAKERSo you've used it more than I have that, that hard drive enclosure I've talked about recently

38:48SPEAKERhas ESATA on it.

38:49SPEAKERAnd I looked into getting an ESATA cable because the USB is so slow, ultimately gave up on

38:54SPEAKERthat.

38:55SPEAKERCause I found there are other reasons that enclosure is slow, but ESATA feels like it

38:59SPEAKERkind of came and went.

39:01SPEAKERSo ESATA was basically the same connector as SATA.

39:03SPEAKERIt was just designed for outside.

39:05SPEAKERIt had a little bit of a latching mechanism.

39:06SPEAKERYeah.

39:07SPEAKERI think like the pin out and the standard are the same, right?

39:09SPEAKERIt's like you can, in fact, I'm pretty sure you can get ESATA on one end, SATA on the other

39:13SPEAKERcables.

39:14SPEAKERYeah.

39:15SPEAKERA hundred percent.

39:16SPEAKERA hundred percent.

39:17SPEAKERThe cables were shielded.

39:18SPEAKERThe cables were shielded, which was important.

39:20SPEAKERThe connector was fine.

39:22SPEAKERIt didn't transmit power until much, much later.

39:25SPEAKERI think now you can get ESATA with power, but the original ESATA did not have power.

39:29SPEAKERInteresting.

39:30SPEAKERI also think, I think that they made an ESATA USB combo plug at one point.

39:36SPEAKERWeird.

39:37SPEAKERWhich is another weird one.

39:38SPEAKERI never actually saw one of those.

39:40SPEAKERI don't believe.

39:41SPEAKERHow about, how about I'm going to say, I'm going to say ESATA is probably on the same

39:45SPEAKERtier as SATA.

39:48SPEAKERI think that's probably safe.

39:49SPEAKERI think that's fair.

39:50SPEAKERAll right.

39:51SPEAKERI mean, the problems with the ESATA were in the cable, not the connector.

39:52SPEAKERHow's that?

39:53SPEAKEROkay.

39:54SPEAKERFair.

39:55SPEAKERYeah.

39:56SPEAKERYeah.

39:57SPEAKERAlso, ESATA is pretty limited in how long it can be, right?

39:58SPEAKERI think like three feet, roughly is about the max.

40:00SPEAKERI think it's a meter, yeah.

40:01SPEAKERWhich is not great for something that's intended to be external.

40:05SPEAKERThe TLDR on these was that if your computer was under your desk, your ESATA drive always

40:11SPEAKERended up being on top of the desk, I mean, on top of the computer, and if your computer

40:15SPEAKERwas on the desk, you could maybe put it beside, it was very exciting.

40:19SPEAKERESATA-P, the power specification is under development now, apparently.

40:24SPEAKERWeird.

40:25SPEAKERIt seems like extremely too little, too late at this point.

40:28SPEAKERWell, so they're, they, they make sense for external, like, like NASAs, so you can add

40:36SPEAKERexternal drives to NASAs and stuff like that, it's in relatively niche.

40:39SPEAKERBut nobody has ESATA on the host anymore unless they go out and buy a card or something.

40:43SPEAKERYeah.

40:44SPEAKERIs the thing.

40:45SPEAKERThere is that.

40:46SPEAKERCan I ask a sidebar here really quick?

40:47SPEAKERYeah.

40:48SPEAKERAs I was fighting with this over the holiday, let me try, let me try to think how to, how

40:52SPEAKERto ask this question.

40:53SPEAKERIs there a way to have hard drives connected to a motherboard over SATA or whatever data

40:56SPEAKERstandard and power those hard drives off something other than the internal power supply of the

41:01SPEAKERcomputer?

41:02SPEAKERYeah, of course.

41:03SPEAKERWhat would you use to power the hard drives that's not the power supply of the computer

41:06SPEAKERthat they're attached to?

41:07SPEAKERYou can just buy an external power supply that has a SATA connector ends on it, SATA

41:12SPEAKERpower connector ends.

41:13SPEAKERIs it just like constantly supplying power to the drives or do they'll always be on?

41:18SPEAKERSo they'll be spun up even if the computer's not on?

41:21SPEAKERYeah.

41:22SPEAKERInteresting.

41:23SPEAKEROkay.

41:24SPEAKEROkay.

41:25SPEAKERThat bears some more investigation.

41:26SPEAKERI may have to look into that some.

41:28SPEAKERYeah.

41:29SPEAKERLike, so, so I have one of those that goes with an external with like a it's a thing

41:34SPEAKERthat has a pad, a IDE plug, a SATA plug, and an eSATA plug that has a USB bridge.

41:42SPEAKERSo you can plug in bare drives.

41:44SPEAKERAnd then the power brick is just an external it's external power with molex and SATA, SATA

41:49SPEAKERplugs on it.

41:50SPEAKERStraight into the wall?

41:51SPEAKERStraight into the wall.

41:52SPEAKEROkay.

41:53SPEAKERI wouldn't use it for long-term stuff, but for like cloning a drive or something.

41:56SPEAKERIt's fine.

41:57SPEAKEROkay.

41:58SPEAKERAll right.

41:59SPEAKERI'll, I'll think about that.

42:00SPEAKERI don't need to get fully into my use case, but like having, having four drives hanging

42:02SPEAKERout of the computer and nothing to power them with became an issue over the break.

42:06SPEAKERSo I'm trying to figure out how to like run drives that I don't have for various reasons.

42:11SPEAKERCan't hook up to the PSU.

42:13SPEAKERThe easier thing is just buy a cage that plugs in and runs the whole time.

42:16SPEAKERRuns them all.

42:17SPEAKERAnd that's what I was trying to circumvent.

42:18SPEAKERSo when I did this, to be clear, when I ran all four of those drives into the motherboard,

42:22SPEAKERI was, I was getting speeds roughly four to five times faster than what that enclosure

42:26SPEAKERcould do.

42:27SPEAKERYeah.

42:28SPEAKERYeah.

42:29SPEAKERYeah.

42:30SPEAKERTurned a multi-day backup operation into like a 16 hour one.

42:31SPEAKERWe talked about that in the patron episode, didn't we?

42:33SPEAKERA little bit, but I did more since then anyway, if people, if people have suggestions for

42:38SPEAKERsafely powering hard drives, independent of a computer, I would love to hear them.

42:42SPEAKERWhat about MagSafe, Brad?

42:43SPEAKERI guess that means two things now.

42:45SPEAKERLike we should definitely talk about MagSafe, but like there's, there's original MagSafe,

42:49SPEAKERthere's original recipe and then like extra crispy, like they, they dropped MagSafe for

42:53SPEAKERa number of years.

42:54SPEAKERAnd then now they've got a new version of it.

42:56SPEAKERWell, there's three actually, because I think they call MagSafe, don't they call the iPhone

43:00SPEAKERQi plus the magnet thing MagSafe too.

43:03SPEAKERYes, that is technically the branding on the wireless, like magnetic stuff on, I think

43:07SPEAKERthat's actually...

43:08SPEAKERI don't think that counts though.

43:09SPEAKERA, it doesn't count.

43:10SPEAKERB, I think they should have come up with a different name for that.

43:12SPEAKERI think that is too much brand confusion because MagSafe to me is laptop power connectors,

43:17SPEAKERnot wireless phone accessories.

43:19SPEAKERI think I'm comfortable bundling both the modern incarnation of MagSafe and like the

43:23SPEAKER2010s incarnation of MagSafe for laptops.

43:26SPEAKERThey're the same.

43:27SPEAKERIn practical use case or like in usage terms, I should say they're the same.

43:32SPEAKERLike I'm sure there are differences in the amount of power that can be delivered and

43:35SPEAKERprobably some other like smart sensing features, but like in terms of how you use them, they're

43:39SPEAKERbasically the same thing.

43:40SPEAKERMagSafe is rad.

43:41SPEAKERGreat idea.

43:42SPEAKERYeah.

43:43SPEAKERS tier for me.

43:44SPEAKERSolid, solid.

43:45SPEAKERHonestly, that might be the end of the discussion, just put MagSafe at S and move on.

43:49SPEAKERWell, I mean, but, but I think we, we should like the, if you've never had a Mac laptop,

43:55SPEAKERthe benefit in the old days when you had to have your laptop plugged in all the time to

43:58SPEAKERuse it, the benefit was if somebody trips over your cable, you yank your cable, your

44:03SPEAKERfoot goes on the cable, it doesn't fire the laptop across the desk.

44:07SPEAKERRight.

44:08SPEAKEROr break the port.

44:09SPEAKEROr break the port.

44:10SPEAKEREither one.

44:11SPEAKERWhich like doesn't make as much sense when you're at your desk, but if you're like plugged

44:15SPEAKERinto a wall at an airport or something, and you're trying desperately to get a charge

44:19SPEAKERand some yutz rolls by and kicks the cable, you don't lose your $3,000 laptop, which was

44:25SPEAKERreally nice.

44:26SPEAKERIt's a great idea.

44:27SPEAKERIt's just, I have not seen a lot of breakaway cable options, but of what I have seen, it's

44:31SPEAKERthe best one by far.

44:33SPEAKERI think, I think it's up there.

44:34SPEAKERYeah, it's definitely up there.

44:36SPEAKERIt's the, I mean, the other solution, like IBM used to do a relatively low friction power

44:42SPEAKERshaft, like a, like a dipole power thing that would come out easily.

44:49SPEAKERBut if you, if you hit it the wrong angle, it would still fire your laptop across the

44:52SPEAKERroom.

44:53SPEAKERUh, I'm, I'm a fan.

44:55SPEAKERThat was an easy one.

44:56SPEAKERI've, I've written MagSafe in the S tier.

44:59SPEAKERYeah.

45:00SPEAKERUh, what about, what about Thunderbolt?

45:01SPEAKERHave you ever used a Thunderbolt cable, Brad?

45:04SPEAKERYes.

45:05SPEAKERAlthough I've come to realize in the course of us doing this, the Thunderbolt means multiple

45:09SPEAKERthings.

45:10SPEAKERThere are, well, Thunderbolt can go over USB-C now and the Thunderbolt that I'm thinking

45:15SPEAKERof specifically is the mini, what used to be the mini display port.

45:20SPEAKERSo again, here, here, here again, we are running into like data, electrical, signal standards

45:25SPEAKERversus physical connectors because technically, technically there's never been a quote unquote

45:30SPEAKERThunderbolt connector.

45:31SPEAKERFirst it was mini display port.

45:32SPEAKERNow it's USB type C. That said, I don't think I've ever seen mini display port outside of

45:37SPEAKERThunderbolt in terms of applications.

45:39SPEAKERI'm sure it exists.

45:40SPEAKEROh, mini display port outside of Thunderbolt is really wildly popular on laptops for awhile.

45:45SPEAKEROh, was it?

45:46SPEAKERYeah.

45:47SPEAKEROkay.

45:48SPEAKERLike a PC, like an x86 or a Windows laptop in that era.

45:52SPEAKERYeah.

45:53SPEAKERSo, so if you wanted a display, if you, you would have mini H you would have HDMI and mini

45:57SPEAKERdisplay port on like a workstation laptop for a long time.

46:00SPEAKEROkay.

46:01SPEAKERWell, I mean, in fairness, even the MacBooks of that era, uh, when they called it a Thunderbolt

46:05SPEAKERport, still one of the main applications for it was display out.

46:08SPEAKERLike you were mostly, mostly driving a monitor over the quote unquote Thunderbolt port, but

46:13SPEAKERyou could, you could plug other things into it as well.

46:15SPEAKERYeah.

46:16SPEAKEROne of the, of the Thunderbolt versus display port is you could daisy chain Thunderbolt

46:20SPEAKERmonitors.

46:21SPEAKERSo you could plug one, you could, you could plug the Thunderbolt out of your laptop into

46:25SPEAKERyour first Thunderbolt monitor, and then you could plug a Thunderbolt monitor or a display

46:28SPEAKERport monitor into that second monitor and put stuff like hard drives and whatever.

46:32SPEAKEROkay.

46:33SPEAKERSo we're rating effectively, I guess we're rating mini display port here.

46:36SPEAKERWell, I mean, but did the mini display port version of Thunderbolt let you do power?

46:40SPEAKERLike, could you power hard drives and even monitors or was that only on the USB-C version?

46:44SPEAKERI think that was only on the USB-C version.

46:47SPEAKEROkay.

46:48SPEAKERI have a 2008 Unibody MacBook that had quote unquote Thunderbolt ports on it.

46:51SPEAKERAnd I'm trying to think what I did with them.

46:53SPEAKERLike I definitely hooked them up to monitors, but I think you could run a hard drives off

46:58SPEAKERthose things, right?

47:00SPEAKERMaybe you could do low power stuff.

47:01SPEAKERYou couldn't power a monitor off of them.

47:03SPEAKEROkay.

47:04SPEAKERYeah.

47:05SPEAKERThat that's a new thing, right?

47:06SPEAKERLike USB-C powering literally everything with one plug is, is a, is a later, that feels more

47:11SPEAKERlike a USB-C feature than a Thunderbolt one.

47:16SPEAKERI don't think display port has that kind of power.

47:19SPEAKERYeah.

47:20SPEAKERMini display port.

47:21SPEAKERYeah.

47:22SPEAKERLet's just say mini display port slash Thunderbolt, I think is the way to describe that.

47:25SPEAKERYeah, I think that's fine.

47:26SPEAKERI don't know.

47:27SPEAKERIs that like a B?

47:28SPEAKERIt was fine.

47:29SPEAKERIt has a little click.

47:30SPEAKERIt has a little click.

47:31SPEAKERIt was pretty robust.

47:32SPEAKEROr maybe, maybe it's a C maybe it's, it's kind of middle of the road road actually.

47:36SPEAKERYeah.

47:37SPEAKERMiddle of the road feels right.

47:38SPEAKERMaybe the thunderboltness of it bumps it up to a B because it did let you do different

47:41SPEAKERtypes of devices and daisy chain stuff, you know, the daisy chaining is kind of cool.

47:45SPEAKERI might, I might suggest a B.

47:47SPEAKERSo it was originally optical and they change it to electrical and it could supply 10 Watts

47:52SPEAKERof power, which wasn't enough for Thunderbolt one.

47:55SPEAKERThat's pretty good.

47:56SPEAKERYeah.

47:57SPEAKERThat's a B to me.

47:58SPEAKERI think that's a C. I think we have too many Bs.

48:01SPEAKERI think it's a, I feel C to me, not B though.

48:03SPEAKEROkay.

48:04SPEAKERPut it in B. That's fine.

48:06SPEAKERFire wires in B.

48:07SPEAKERI think it's probably as good as fire wire.

48:08SPEAKERYes.

48:09SPEAKERI think it's in that same ballpark.

48:10SPEAKERAnd in fact, even similar use cases, right?

48:13SPEAKERYeah.

48:14SPEAKERI don't think I want to touch USB-C yet.

48:16SPEAKERThat seems like a, like a third rail of this podcast.

48:20SPEAKERUSB-C.

48:21SPEAKERWhat about RJ45?

48:22SPEAKERI was going to say USB-C and USB-A, like 2.0 A are both, both just kind of like dancing

48:27SPEAKERaround them because they're such thorny subjects.

48:29SPEAKERRJ45, yes.

48:30SPEAKERWe should, do you want to close out with RJ45 here?

48:33SPEAKERWe can do that.

48:34SPEAKERI don't like RJ45 very much.

48:36SPEAKERLike it's fine, but I feel like the locking mechanism is flimsy and fails too often.

48:41SPEAKERThe ability to break that tab off easily is bad, even though a lot of cables are jacketed

48:47SPEAKERnow to prevent that.

48:48SPEAKERThat also often makes it worse.

48:50SPEAKERYou think so?

48:51SPEAKERYeah.

48:52SPEAKERCause then you can't push the tab down to unlock it easily.

48:54SPEAKERSo hang on.

48:55SPEAKERHow common is that?

48:56SPEAKERCause I wanted to come in here, I generally, I liked the jacketed thing where you could

48:59SPEAKERnot break the tab off.

49:00SPEAKERWe're talking about.

49:01SPEAKERI hate, yeah.

49:02SPEAKERI don't like jacketeds.

49:03SPEAKERTo be clear, RJ45 is, is what most people think of as the ethernet.

49:07SPEAKERYour network cable.

49:08SPEAKERYeah, the ethernet plug.

49:09SPEAKERYeah.

49:10SPEAKERI liked the ability to not break the thing, the little shroud, the housing shroud.

49:15SPEAKERBut okay.

49:16SPEAKERI might've mentioned this before, like six or seven years ago at some point I was just

49:19SPEAKERlike, you know what?

49:20SPEAKERI just need a bunch of network cables.

49:21SPEAKERI'm doing a bunch of networking stuff at this point.

49:23SPEAKERI just need a supply.

49:24SPEAKERI went to Modern Price, which I think at that time was still the go-to for cables.

49:28SPEAKERI'm not sure that's the case anymore after they've changed hands like three times.

49:31SPEAKERIt's not, you do cables to go a lot, but Modern Price is still fine.

49:35SPEAKERBut at the time I was just like, okay, I'm just going to spend the money.

49:37SPEAKERI'm just going to, I went through and just added to cart like one foot, three foot, six

49:42SPEAKERfoot, 10 foot, like five of each cable.

49:45SPEAKERYeah.

49:46SPEAKERI even got a few six inchers in there for like very short applications.

49:49SPEAKERI just was like, I'm just, I'm going to buy enough Cat6 to never need to buy Cat6 again,

49:53SPEAKERunless I own a house or something.

49:55SPEAKERThose cables are so fucking infuriating.

49:57SPEAKERI have thought about cutting them all in half so many times you don't understand housing.

50:02SPEAKERIt's too stiff, right?

50:04SPEAKERIt's so fucking stiff.

50:05SPEAKERYeah.

50:06SPEAKERI finally gave up a couple of years ago and bought a special pair of needle nose pliers

50:11SPEAKERbecause I have to use fucking pliers to get those cables out now.

50:13SPEAKERLike I have, I have worried about breaking the port on my PS5 or my NAS or motherboard

50:19SPEAKERor like, you know, so many devices so many times because that thing is so stiff, my thumb,

50:24SPEAKERI literally cannot get the fucking cable out without special tools, maybe even RJ45 sucks.

50:29SPEAKERI use wire snips to cut those off, to cut the little shield bump off around the thing.

50:36SPEAKERBut at the same time, it also fails the other way because the plastic on the retention clip

50:42SPEAKEReventually gets not springy enough and then it stops retentioning.

50:46SPEAKERSo for example, the other day my wife walked in and she bumped the ethernet cable when

50:50SPEAKERshe was talking to me on the other side of my desk and all of a sudden my computer was

50:53SPEAKERoff the internet.

50:54SPEAKERNice.

50:55SPEAKERSo I have to replace that ethernet cable now.

50:56SPEAKERGreat.

50:57SPEAKERNow the nice thing about RJ45, it's probably the most complicated cable on this list that

51:03SPEAKERI roll my own for because I still crimp my own RJ45, my own ethernet usually.

51:10SPEAKERGiven the, given the big Monoprice buy example, I just gave like, I think the life of what

51:13SPEAKERyou're talking about is what I should have done instead instead of just buying a bunch

51:16SPEAKERof cables, I should have learned how to, I should have learned how to make my own ethernet

51:19SPEAKERcables, and then this would maybe be less of an issue, but being able to make your own

51:23SPEAKERcables is pretty cool.

51:24SPEAKERI have to admit.

51:25SPEAKERYeah.

51:26SPEAKERThat, that to me is a real, this is, this is going to be our first, I think this is

51:29SPEAKERour first digital, our first digital S tier.

51:33SPEAKERWait, I'm sorry, what?

51:35SPEAKERYou can make your own.

51:36SPEAKERSo when the end gets broken, you just cut on off and put a new one on.

51:40SPEAKERHang on.

51:41SPEAKERWe just sat here and complained about it for five minutes and now you're suggesting yes.

51:43SPEAKERBut you can make your own.

51:45SPEAKERThat's, I mean, yes, but you're still left with

51:47SPEAKERWildcard.

51:48SPEAKERYou're going to have an RJ 45 at the end of it.

51:50SPEAKERYeah, that's true.

51:52SPEAKEROkay.

51:53SPEAKEROkay.

51:54SPEAKEROkay.

51:55SPEAKERLook, I got, I got, I got high on the idea of making my own cables for a minute there

51:57SPEAKERand I lost, I lost all judgment.

51:59SPEAKERIt's very cool.

52:00SPEAKERDon't get me wrong.

52:01SPEAKERI don't know.

52:02SPEAKERI mean, it's still decent.

52:03SPEAKERIt's still a decent connector, I guess, despite all the problems that we're.

52:07SPEAKERI look, we're stuck with it forever at this point.

52:09SPEAKERIt's never going to go away.

52:10SPEAKERThey're never going to upgrade it.

52:11SPEAKERMaybe not forever.

52:12SPEAKERNo.

52:13SPEAKERMaybe not forever.

52:14SPEAKERNope.

52:15SPEAKERForever.

52:16SPEAKERSo given the difficulty of reaching 10 gigabit per second on RJ 45, I actually don't know

52:21SPEAKERif it will be with us forever.

52:23SPEAKERMaybe for the rest of our lifetimes.

52:24SPEAKERYeah.

52:25SPEAKERWe have 10 gigabit RJ 45 right now.

52:27SPEAKERWe do, but it's not great.

52:28SPEAKERLike it's, it's, it was pretty rough getting there.

52:31SPEAKERYeah.

52:32SPEAKERI don't know.

52:33SPEAKERI don't know if they'll be able to extend past that.

52:34SPEAKERGranted again, like are the majority of people living right now ever going to need more than

52:39SPEAKER10 gigabit?

52:40SPEAKERProbably not.

52:41SPEAKERNo.

52:42SPEAKERNo.

52:43SPEAKERBut.

52:44SPEAKERLook.

52:45SPEAKERIt's a B. Like I would, I would have said a C or a D until we introduced the ability

52:50SPEAKERto make your own, which again is pretty great.

52:53SPEAKERAnd that's not cheap, right?

52:54SPEAKERTo be clear, like, like a giant spool of cat six is pretty cheap.

52:57SPEAKERCorrect?

52:58SPEAKERWell, okay.

52:59SPEAKERSo in the old days it used to be that the way, like the, the reason I make my own cables,

53:03SPEAKERcause I bought a spool of cat 5e like 15 years ago and I have not used it up yet, even wiring

53:09SPEAKERthe entire house, right?

53:11SPEAKERSo yeah, it's, it's the cost of doing that for me now.

53:15SPEAKERIf you want an ethernet, a 5e ethernet cable, I can get, I got you in like five minutes.

53:19SPEAKERIt's no problem.

53:20SPEAKERIt costs nothing.

53:21SPEAKERThat sounds fun.

53:22SPEAKEREven, even with all the issues with this connector that we all just, that we just mentioned, it

53:25SPEAKERjust sounds fun to sit there and make your own cable, especially, especially a cable

53:29SPEAKERof exactly the length you need.

53:31SPEAKERWell, the problem.

53:32SPEAKEROkay.

53:33SPEAKERSo that's the other thing is you started out this process and you're like, I'm going to

53:36SPEAKERmake exactly the length you need.

53:37SPEAKERAnd that's a terrible idea.

53:38SPEAKERYou always make like an extra three feet because you need to have some slack.

53:42SPEAKEROf course.

53:43SPEAKERSo the, the thing I will say is that in the era of Amazon selling six foot ethernet, a

53:50SPEAKERtwo pack of six foot ethernet cables that are tested and machine-made for $5, it's much

53:58SPEAKERlike ethernet cables were expensive when I bought that spool of cat 5e and they're not

54:02SPEAKERnow.

54:03SPEAKERIt's less of a cost saver, but you still run into issues.

54:05SPEAKERLike I said, even, even like supposedly quality store bought cables can be infuriating to

54:10SPEAKERuse like those modern price ones I bought.

54:13SPEAKERYeah.

54:14SPEAKERI mean, the thing I will say is when I wanted like a weird length cable, I wanted like a

54:17SPEAKER16 foot cable to put a camera on the bird feeder out in the backyard.

54:21SPEAKERI just went and made exactly the right length.

54:24SPEAKERThat's what I meant about making the exact length.

54:27SPEAKERLike obviously you leave some slack, but what I mean is like, you wouldn't have to buy like

54:30SPEAKERsay 30 foot cable for a 16 foot application and have a ton of slack leftover or have to

54:35SPEAKERcoil it.

54:36SPEAKERYeah.

54:37SPEAKERSo this is my new Northern California business bespoke cables, Will's bespoke cables, Will's

54:41SPEAKERold time cable Co T I T H Y M E I guess.

54:46SPEAKERI don't know farm farm to desk artisanal cables.

54:49SPEAKERYeah, exactly.

54:50SPEAKERI'll tell you, I'll tell you where the plastic was farmed.

54:53SPEAKERI could maybe see it going up to B when you add in the ability to make your own.

54:58SPEAKEROtherwise I would say like C. I think B bumps it up maybe.

55:01SPEAKERYeah.

55:02SPEAKERAll right.

55:03SPEAKERYou make your own B and C cables though too.

55:04SPEAKERYeah.

55:05SPEAKERDoes that mean they didn't go one above S?

55:06SPEAKERHmm.

55:07SPEAKERNo.

55:08SPEAKERB and C is S already.

55:09SPEAKERI know.

55:10SPEAKERMaybe they need to go super S, SS, SS, but S plus.

55:14SPEAKERSure.

55:15SPEAKERShould we, should we just talk about RJ 11 since we're here?

55:18SPEAKERCause it's like, I've seen, I've seen it described as the baby brother of RJ 45.

55:24SPEAKERIt's it's I think at this point it's more abundant.

55:26SPEAKERI don't think like, do you have an active RJ 11 cable in your house?

55:29SPEAKERI do not, but what was I just looking at the other day?

55:32SPEAKERIt was a, it was a pie KVM competitor.

55:36SPEAKERI think it was called the jet KVM.

55:38SPEAKERIs that right?

55:39SPEAKERYes.

55:40SPEAKERLet me, let me just triple check.

55:41SPEAKERI don't know if that thing's any good to be cleared on.

55:42SPEAKERThis is not an endorsement.

55:43SPEAKERIt's currently running on Kickstarter.

55:45SPEAKEROkay.

55:46SPEAKERAlthough can kick starters run forever now?

55:48SPEAKERCause I get the sense that the rules, yeah, I feel like this is just like some ongoing

55:53SPEAKERKickstarter now.

55:54SPEAKERLet me just, yes, there it is.

55:56SPEAKERThey are using RJ 11 as an extension port for this thing.

55:59SPEAKERSo a lot of times people use low data RJ 11 for like, to like if you need a, my, my steering

56:08SPEAKERwheel has an RJ 11 port that goes to, I think the pedals for like low debt, low, low, relatively

56:15SPEAKERlow data.

56:16SPEAKERYeah.

56:17SPEAKERStuff like that.

56:18SPEAKERSimilar to how I've mentioned like my pay high KVM, they're using RJ 45 to access the

56:22SPEAKERpower and reset functionality, ATX pens.

56:25SPEAKERSo it's, it's one of those things where, you know, like it's all just electricity at the

56:28SPEAKERend of the day.

56:29SPEAKERLike signals for whatever, over any, any port that you adapt to your purpose.

56:34SPEAKERThis thing, let's see, the RJ 11 extension port functions as a serial port, allowing

56:38SPEAKERcommunications with the jet KVM.

56:40SPEAKERThis port is key to adding extra hardware and functionality, blah, blah, blah.

56:44SPEAKERYeah.

56:45SPEAKERLike it's just a, it's just a little expansion port basically.

56:47SPEAKERSo they'll like, presumably they'll come up with hardware add-ons for this thing that

56:51SPEAKERgo over RJ 11.

56:52SPEAKERI think that's cool.

56:53SPEAKERHow old is RJ 11?

56:54SPEAKERLike it's old of the 40s, 50s, no, no, no, no.

56:59SPEAKERNo, before, before RJ 11, they had a two-prong, it was like a circular thing with two pins

57:05SPEAKERthat you jammed into the wall for your phones.

57:06SPEAKERDo you know what the, do you know what the Wikipedia page is titled that RJ 11 takes

57:11SPEAKERyou to?

57:12SPEAKERWow.

57:13SPEAKERRegistered Jack.

57:14SPEAKERThat seems right.

57:15SPEAKERJust call it, just call me registered Jack.

57:19SPEAKERThere's a bunch of our other RJs apparently, or at least some others, RJ 14, RJ 61, RJ

57:26SPEAKER25.

57:27SPEAKERWild, I guess RJ actually stands for registered Jack.

57:30SPEAKERThat's amazing.

57:31SPEAKERSo they had, I guess it was the, yeah, I don't, I don't, it's in, it's in, it's in the FCC

57:40SPEAKERcode.

57:41SPEAKERYeah.

57:42SPEAKERThat's interesting.

57:43SPEAKERThey don't, they don't have photos for everything here, but I think most of these RJs look similar

57:45SPEAKERto the two that we're talking about here, although here's an RJ 21 that is very different.

57:50SPEAKERThe origin of this was to replace the proprietary couplers that the telephone company provided

57:55SPEAKERto keep you from plugging non telephone company standards, hardware into their networks.

58:01SPEAKERWas that, was that one of those AT&T antitrust things that they were preventing you from

58:05SPEAKERusing anybody else's hardware to use, to do your phone stuff?

58:08SPEAKERYeah.

58:09SPEAKERThis was Hushafone versus the United States.

58:11SPEAKERHushafone?

58:12SPEAKERI don't, we should maybe do an episode about this cause this looks really interesting.

58:17SPEAKERI was, I was trying to find a date on RJ 11, but I don't see one right now.

58:21SPEAKERAnyway, the fact that a, a connector that old is still in use for modern applications,

58:27SPEAKERI think it's kind of cool.

58:28SPEAKERI think it has all the same problems as the RJ 45 though.

58:31SPEAKERYeah.

58:32SPEAKERIt's flatching pin is flimsy.

58:33SPEAKERIt's only four pins, only four wires.

58:37SPEAKERIt's easy to plug in without looking at it.

58:39SPEAKERYeah.

58:40SPEAKERIt makes a satisfying click.

58:41SPEAKERI don't know.

58:42SPEAKERThese are both very satisfying to plug in.

58:43SPEAKERI don't know.

58:44SPEAKERI tentatively, I think RJ 11 goes right after RJ 45.

58:48SPEAKERStraight beat here.

58:49SPEAKERYeah.

58:50SPEAKERI can, I can get behind that.

58:51SPEAKERI guess.

58:52SPEAKERAnd now we talk about moving lightning down.

58:54SPEAKERI'm going to suggest F. Lightning is like an, I think it's an A at worst, probably maybe

59:00SPEAKERa B. Oh, okay.

59:01SPEAKERI mean, maybe if I think we could be able to move it down to A and do not get the hostility.

59:06SPEAKERIt's bad.

59:07SPEAKERI'm fine.

59:08SPEAKERI'm fine.

59:09SPEAKERI don't even know how it ended up at S honestly.

59:10SPEAKERLike I, I think I had a moment of weakness.

59:12SPEAKERI got it.

59:13SPEAKERI got it.

59:14SPEAKERI moved it down, but it right at the bottom of a right above, right above the B's.

59:18SPEAKERAnd on that note, I think we've reached the end.

59:20SPEAKERWe made some real progress this week.

59:22SPEAKERI feel like we've, we've got a handful of weird weirdos.

59:26SPEAKERWe got a couple of real hard talks coming.

59:29SPEAKERYeah.

59:30SPEAKERThe remaining USB stuff is going to be a painful part, I think, or, you know, I mean, not,

59:36SPEAKERnot in terms of arguing, but just more of there's like so many thorny issues to talk

59:39SPEAKERthrough.

59:40SPEAKERYeah.

59:41SPEAKERWe got mini DIN.

59:42SPEAKERWe got the joystick port.

59:44SPEAKERWe got serial port, the D nine.

59:46SPEAKERYes.

59:47SPEAKERWe got micro HDMI, everybody's favorite HDMI, excited to talk about SAS and mini SAS.

59:56SPEAKERVery excited to talk about SFP.

59:58SPEAKERWe got, we hit many display port with lightning today though.

1:00:00SPEAKERRight?

1:00:01SPEAKERThat's a double up.

1:00:02SPEAKERSure.

1:00:03SPEAKERMark that off the list.

1:00:04SPEAKERThunderbolt.

1:00:05SPEAKERYes.

1:00:06SPEAKERYeah.

1:00:07SPEAKERWith Thunderbolt.

1:00:08SPEAKERSorry.

1:00:09SPEAKERYeah.

1:00:10SPEAKERYes.

1:00:11SPEAKERWe're, we're getting down to it.

1:00:12SPEAKERI think we could maybe, maybe knock this out in one more, but like we said, well, then

1:00:13SPEAKERwe have to rank the S tiers is the problem.

1:00:14SPEAKEROh God.

1:00:15SPEAKERYeah.

1:00:16SPEAKERWell, anyway, we'll space these out.

1:00:19SPEAKERLike we said, we've got some other stuff in the hopper, but we will, we will come back

1:00:24SPEAKERand finish this important work.

1:00:25SPEAKERYeah.

1:00:26SPEAKERThis is, and then once it's done, we'll, we'll post it and we're all can see on the, the

1:00:31SPEAKERholding place of all S tier lists for all time.

1:00:34SPEAKERYep.

1:00:35SPEAKERBut that brings us to the end of the show.

1:00:37SPEAKERThis is the part where we remind you that this is a listener supported podcast.

1:00:40SPEAKERThere's no ads because we're supported by you, the listener.

1:00:42SPEAKERThis is the ad for the listener.

1:00:44SPEAKERIt is listeners.

1:00:45SPEAKERWe appreciate you.

1:00:46SPEAKERThank you listeners.

1:00:47SPEAKERWe do.

1:00:48SPEAKERIf you would like to find out how to support the show, you can go to patreon.com/tech pod.

1:00:52SPEAKERAgain, it's patreon.com/tech pod where for five bucks a month to get access to the discord,

1:00:58SPEAKERwhich is full of really smart people who are making good points about the bad decisions

1:01:02SPEAKERwe're making here on the ranking list and a bunch of other stuff all the time.

1:01:06SPEAKERI don't think we're making bad decisions here for the record.

1:01:09SPEAKERNo, probably not.

1:01:11SPEAKERI assume that these ranking of cables episodes have more people yelling at their radios and

1:01:16SPEAKERthe car than a normal tech pod episode, but I don't know.

1:01:20SPEAKERLet us know.

1:01:21SPEAKERThat's probably a high bar though.

1:01:22SPEAKERYeah.

1:01:23SPEAKERWe have weekly threads in there for each episode so you can talk about the episodes, ask questions,

1:01:29SPEAKERfollow up, add things that you think are interesting.

1:01:31SPEAKERWe have the bazillions of different areas dedicated to everything from old computers to headphones

1:01:40SPEAKERand speakers and keyboards all the way to stuff like gardening and parenting and making

1:01:45SPEAKERmusic and taking photos.

1:01:47SPEAKERIt's a lovely place to hang out.

1:01:48SPEAKERCooking.

1:01:49SPEAKERYeah.

1:01:50SPEAKERI shared my eggnog recipe in there.

1:01:52SPEAKERGot an email from TikTok that said thousands of people watch my TikTok about eggnog at

1:01:57SPEAKERChristmas time.

1:01:59SPEAKERYou actively make TikToks?

1:02:00SPEAKERI did not know that.

1:02:01SPEAKERNot that often.

1:02:02SPEAKEROccasionally when the urge strikes.

1:02:04SPEAKERI'm going to throw out what we discussed prior to this episode real quick.

1:02:08SPEAKERIt's tentative.

1:02:09SPEAKERFrankly, I think we probably mentioned this two or three years ago and then never got

1:02:14SPEAKERaround to following through on it.

1:02:15SPEAKERBut the idea of doing the halt and catch fire watch has bubbled back up for no other reason

1:02:23SPEAKERthan I've just always wanted to watch that show and I have always been saving it for

1:02:26SPEAKERthis podcast.

1:02:27SPEAKERSo we might kind of curious to hear what people think in a 2025 context on the discord.

1:02:33SPEAKERIf that's something people are interested in or not, we probably, I don't know how we

1:02:36SPEAKERwould space it out.

1:02:37SPEAKERWe probably like over two episodes per episode and space that out in some way.

1:02:43SPEAKERSo I watched it.

1:02:44SPEAKERI watched the first like three or four episodes years ago and was like, Oh, we should do this

1:02:47SPEAKERon the podcast.

1:02:48SPEAKERRight.

1:02:49SPEAKERWhen we were starting the podcast.

1:02:50SPEAKERRight.

1:02:51SPEAKERAnd then it stopped being on Netflix.

1:02:52SPEAKERWe're like, well, that was the thing that stopped us from doing it is that it's not

1:02:55SPEAKERas accessible as it used to be, but you can, there are still ways to watch it.

1:02:59SPEAKERThere's a seven it's on Amazon prime and there's a seven free seven day free trial.

1:03:03SPEAKERYes.

1:03:04SPEAKERYou can watch it there.

1:03:05SPEAKERIt's on AMC streaming service, which I don't know what the uptake is on that service.

1:03:09SPEAKERProbably not that many people listening habits, but it is available in places.

1:03:12SPEAKERI've been thinking about watching Mad Men again, just to see how that's aged.

1:03:16SPEAKERI never finished it.

1:03:17SPEAKERWe got like, so maybe season three and then didn't finish it or something, but it ends

1:03:21SPEAKERgood.

1:03:22SPEAKERAnyway, I would like to watch that too.

1:03:25SPEAKERSo yeah, it's what I would request is people who've watched it and know.

1:03:30SPEAKERSo like for people who don't know, it's about the story of the Dawn of the PC clone, right?

1:03:34SPEAKERIt's the story of Compaq making a closed box clone of the PC, IBM PC bios API calls so

1:03:46SPEAKERthat they can run IBM PC software on their box that uses the same X 86 chip.

1:03:51SPEAKERYeah.

1:03:52SPEAKERIt's it's fictionalized, right?

1:03:53SPEAKERIt's not actually compact.

1:03:54SPEAKERThey kind of come up with a stand in company, but.

1:03:57SPEAKERI think they call it Compaq.

1:03:58SPEAKERDo they really?

1:03:59SPEAKERI'm pretty sure.

1:04:00SPEAKERI can't remember.

1:04:01SPEAKERIt's been a long time.

1:04:02SPEAKERYeah.

1:04:03SPEAKERI think if people watch it and are familiar with it, I would love to know.

1:04:05SPEAKERI think we're going to start with the first season because I think that's the most interesting

1:04:09SPEAKERone.

1:04:10SPEAKERWhat people think of, like where the breaks should be.

1:04:14SPEAKERIf we're going to talk about it on like one or two episodes at a time, if it's one episode

1:04:20SPEAKERper show or if we can do two episodes per show is what I would like to know.

1:04:24SPEAKERYeah.

1:04:25SPEAKERAnyway, that's that.

1:04:29SPEAKERAs always, thanks to everybody for supporting the show.

1:04:30SPEAKERIt's patreon.com/techpod.

1:04:31SPEAKERThanks to our executive producer, to your patrons, including Andrew Slosky, Jordan Lippett,

1:04:38SPEAKERBunny Thing, Twinkle Twinkie, David Allen, James Kamik, and Pantheon makers of the HS3

1:04:43SPEAKERhigh speed 3D printer.

1:04:44SPEAKERThank you also so much.

1:04:45SPEAKERDid you say bunny thing?

1:04:48SPEAKERSays bunny.

1:04:49SPEAKERI just read.

1:04:50SPEAKERI just read what's I look.

1:04:51SPEAKERI just read what's on the page, man.

1:04:52SPEAKERBunny thing.

1:04:53SPEAKERI'm trying to.

1:04:54SPEAKERBunny thing.

1:04:55SPEAKERIt's going to take me some time to figure out how I feel about that word.

1:04:57SPEAKERWell, Bunny's got, Bunny got 20 gig fiber, it sounded like, and then, yeah.

1:05:01SPEAKERSo now they've moved beyond numbers at this point.

1:05:04SPEAKERI believe they've ascended.

1:05:05SPEAKERI could, I could see how that might happen.

1:05:08SPEAKERI mean, I would just become zeros and ones at that point.

1:05:11SPEAKERThey have sublimated into the digital either.

1:05:14SPEAKERI I don't know about that, but did you know that Progresso introduced soup, soup drops?

1:05:21SPEAKERWhat?

1:05:22SPEAKERBrad?

1:05:23SPEAKERNo.

1:05:24SPEAKERYeah.

1:05:25SPEAKERSo you can get a convenient to go.

1:05:28SPEAKERThey call it a Progresso soup drop soup.

1:05:31SPEAKERYou can suck on.

1:05:32SPEAKERIs this an ad?

1:05:34SPEAKERIt's not an ad.

1:05:35SPEAKERThey're not paying us for this.

1:05:36SPEAKERAre you sneaking an ad into the end of the podcast?

1:05:38SPEAKERWhat are we doing?

1:05:39SPEAKERIt's it's I'm going to send you this press release.

1:05:42SPEAKEROkay.

1:05:43SPEAKERI'm a flabberg.

1:05:44SPEAKERI, I saw it as I was looking for the patron names and I was like, Oh God, hold my spoon.

1:05:52SPEAKERIt's soup.

1:05:53SPEAKERAnd it's like lozenges of chicken noodle soup, man.

1:05:57SPEAKERI don't, this has gotta be April fools.

1:06:00SPEAKERThis can't possibly be a real thing.

1:06:02SPEAKERLet's tune in for next week's episode of the soup cast.

1:06:05SPEAKERYeah.

1:06:06SPEAKERNothing but soup.

1:06:07SPEAKERYou're on from here.

1:06:08SPEAKEROh.

1:06:09SPEAKERAre you dissociating right now?

1:06:10SPEAKERSold out.

1:06:11SPEAKERI was trying to get the soup drops and they're sold out until Thursday at 9 AM.

1:06:14SPEAKERI think, I think, I think Will is losing his grip on reality.

1:06:17SPEAKERWe should end this.

1:06:18SPEAKERYeah.

1:06:19SPEAKERHey, thanks for listening, everybody.

1:06:20SPEAKERThanks for supporting the show.

1:06:21SPEAKERAnd, uh, remember, please consider the environment before printing this podcast.