00:00SPEAKER- Brad, I kind of wonder if internet can be too fast.
00:03SPEAKER- I don't, but I'll hear you out.
00:06SPEAKER- Well, okay, so like when I download a game from Steam
00:09SPEAKERor Epic or something now, the CPU spins up
00:11SPEAKER'cause the compression's so hard,
00:12SPEAKERlike the fans turn on to download files now
00:15SPEAKERbecause my internet's so fast.
00:17SPEAKER- If your internet is faster,
00:18SPEAKERthey wouldn't have to compress the data so much
00:20SPEAKERand then your CPU wouldn't spin off as much
00:21SPEAKER'cause it doesn't have to decompress it.
00:23SPEAKER- I don't think they're compressing the data so much
00:25SPEAKERto save me time.
00:26SPEAKERI think they're saving it to save themselves money, Brad.
00:28SPEAKER- I know, I'm just saying the possibility would exist.
00:31SPEAKER- So I just saw Dane, the CEO of,
00:36SPEAKERI was on X looking at the latest disaster over there, 10,
00:38SPEAKERsorry, I was on 10 looking at the latest disaster over there
00:41SPEAKERand I saw that Dane Jasper, who's the CEO of Sonic,
00:44SPEAKERhad done a 10 that said,
00:47SPEAKERif you've got Sonic Fiber at one gigabits per second,
00:50SPEAKERwould like to put in a request for upgrade
00:51SPEAKERto 10 gigabits per second, that's now possible here
00:54SPEAKERand then there's a link to your Sonic profile page.
00:56SPEAKER- You may have just changed my life.
00:58SPEAKER- I am so sad 'cause I'm on AT&T.
01:00SPEAKER- I'm sorry.
01:01SPEAKERI think you're on, are you on Sonic lines?
01:02SPEAKERAre they, are you on? - No.
01:04SPEAKER- Some part, what is it?
01:06SPEAKER- It's the other way.
01:07SPEAKERSome Sonic leases some AT&T lines.
01:09SPEAKER- Oh, that's what it is.
01:10SPEAKERThat's right, that's right. - In certain areas.
01:11SPEAKER- Not the other way around.
01:12SPEAKER- Turns out AT&T is the one rolling all the fiber out.
01:16SPEAKERSo here's the thing, though.
01:17SPEAKERIf you upgrade to 10 gigabit, it's basically a chain.
01:21SPEAKERYou're never gonna be able to leave that apartment.
01:22SPEAKERYou're gonna live there for the rest of your life.
01:24SPEAKER- I mean, I'll have to move to Chattanooga then.
01:26SPEAKERWe've been over this.
01:27SPEAKERThat's the option. - That's true.
01:28SPEAKER- It's either, it's San Francisco or Chattanooga.
01:30SPEAKERThose are the only places I can live now.
01:32SPEAKERYou're not wrong.
01:33SPEAKERI would have to buy a bunch of new equipment.
01:35SPEAKERSo I would be sunk into maintaining that speed
01:39SPEAKERwith the money that I spent on that gear.
01:41SPEAKERI don't really need it, but I need it.
01:45SPEAKER- Okay, so my understanding,
01:46SPEAKERI'm guessing that in the time it's taken me to say this,
01:49SPEAKERyou've gone to his Twitter, clicked the link,
01:50SPEAKERand you're about to tell me.
01:52SPEAKER- I'm signed in to the account.
01:53SPEAKERI'm looking at the,
01:54SPEAKERI'm looking at the upgrade or downgrade service options.
01:56SPEAKERSo it's weird because he's basically on Twitter,
01:59SPEAKERhe's making it sound like,
02:00SPEAKERhey, if you have our one gigabit service,
02:01SPEAKERyou can just request it now.
02:02SPEAKERBut last I saw, the build out was super expensive,
02:06SPEAKERlike per customer.
02:07SPEAKER- Yeah, they have to do like router and switch upgrades
02:09SPEAKERand stuff on the backend, right?
02:10SPEAKER- So he posted quite a bit on their forums a few months ago
02:13SPEAKERabout how expensive it is per block or per customer
02:17SPEAKERto build out for 10 gig.
02:18SPEAKERThe lines are fine.
02:20SPEAKERLike the fiber they laid years ago
02:22SPEAKERcan go way past 10 gigabit.
02:23SPEAKERIt's all the, like you said,
02:24SPEAKERit's all the boxes on either end of those lines
02:27SPEAKERthat have to be upgraded in a costly fashion
02:29SPEAKERto get you the service.
02:30SPEAKERSo anyway, I'm gonna click this thing
02:32SPEAKER'cause there are currently no speed upgrades
02:34SPEAKERavailable at your address.
02:35SPEAKER- Sorry, Brad, Gretzky is denied.
02:38SPEAKER- However, you may request Sonic
02:40SPEAKERbring 10 gigabit fiber service to your location.
02:42SPEAKER- Oh, so what they're doing is saying,
02:44SPEAKERhey, express interest.
02:45SPEAKERAnd then if enough people on your block express interest,
02:47SPEAKERso it's cost effective, they'll hit the button.
02:49SPEAKERYou should request interest.
02:50SPEAKER- I'm gonna have to go get to know my neighbors.
02:52SPEAKERI'm gonna have to like whip up
02:53SPEAKERa public relations campaign on my block.
02:55SPEAKER- Look, I'm gonna tell you, here's the plan.
02:57SPEAKERWhat you need to do is take that old TV
02:58SPEAKERthat's sitting in your living room that you're not using
03:01SPEAKERand face it, hang it out of a window facing the street
03:04SPEAKERand put a reel on there that's like, yo,
03:08SPEAKERyou know what's not fast enough?
03:09SPEAKERYour internet.
03:10SPEAKERIf you go to this webpage and click this button,
03:13SPEAKERthen you can express interest
03:14SPEAKERin getting 10 gigabit fiber from Sonic.
03:17SPEAKERAnd then we can all get 10 gigabit fiber from Sonic
03:19SPEAKERand like put a pie chart on there
03:21SPEAKERor a thermometer where it fills up
03:23SPEAKERwhen like you get 10 gigabit internet.
03:26SPEAKERThat's what you do with that TV
03:27SPEAKERand how to get 10 gigabit fiber.
03:30SPEAKER- By clicking above, you acknowledge
03:32SPEAKERthat you authorized Sonic to charge $299
03:35SPEAKERto the preferred method of payment
03:36SPEAKERonce your 10 gigabit service is ready for delivery.
03:38SPEAKER- So is that a one-time or is that the monthly?
03:40SPEAKER- That's a one-time, I think.
03:42SPEAKERI think that's a one-time.
03:43SPEAKER- Probably they have to give you a new modem
03:44SPEAKERor something, right?
03:45SPEAKER- Probably.
03:46SPEAKERLast I saw, they were not raising the price for the service.
03:48SPEAKER'Cause some people in Cal, like Cal Hollow
03:50SPEAKERand I think Marina have it.
03:51SPEAKERAnd it was, they were not raising the monthly cost
03:53SPEAKERof service to go to 10 gigabit.
03:56SPEAKER- I like Sonic a lot.
03:57SPEAKER- They're pretty good.
03:58SPEAKERThey're pretty good.
03:59SPEAKERI should click this button.
04:02SPEAKERI'm gonna click this button.
04:04SPEAKER(upbeat music)
04:20SPEAKER(upbeat music continues)
04:33SPEAKER- Welcome to Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod.
04:35SPEAKERI'm Will.
04:36SPEAKER- I am Brad.
04:37SPEAKERI'm 10 gigabit Brad.
04:38SPEAKERNot quite yet.
04:39SPEAKER- 10 gigabit Brad, 10 GB.
04:42SPEAKER- Oh, that's me.
04:43SPEAKER- Yeah, I remember Joey from LA used to,
04:45SPEAKERhis aim in ancient times was Joey HD.
04:50SPEAKERAnd then 4K video came out and he was like,
04:52SPEAKER"Shit, I'm gonna have to change my aim name."
04:54SPEAKERAnd then aim went away, so it wasn't a problem.
04:56SPEAKER- Yes, a problem solved itself.
04:58SPEAKER- Yeah, it worked itself out.
04:59SPEAKER- You know, I'll say real fast,
05:01SPEAKERthe best practical actual use for 10 gigabit I can think of
05:04SPEAKERis like say downloading games to both your Xbox Series X
05:08SPEAKERand to PS5 at the same time,
05:10SPEAKERbecause both of those services will just about max out
05:12SPEAKERmy 10 gigabit, or I'm sorry,
05:14SPEAKERmy one gigabit connection right now.
05:16SPEAKER- Yeah, that's true.
05:17SPEAKER- So you could, theoretically,
05:19SPEAKERyou could be getting the 100 megabytes a second
05:21SPEAKERto both of those consoles simultaneously.
05:23SPEAKER- Well, and I like, we had the thing on the 500 megabit
05:26SPEAKERin Palm Desert where like opening a Paramount Plus app
05:31SPEAKERon the Apple TV would cache the first,
05:34SPEAKERI assume it's caching like the first 20 seconds
05:36SPEAKERof a bunch of different videos.
05:38SPEAKERAnd it would spike you to the point that like,
05:41SPEAKERI was hosting Anacrusis Games in the other room
05:43SPEAKERand the connection was dropping from people playing with me.
05:45SPEAKER- Yes, that sounds exactly, so that's what it is.
05:48SPEAKERA faster connection is not for serial throughput.
05:52SPEAKERIt's for concurrency or parallel stuff.
05:54SPEAKER- But what if it was for serial throughput?
05:57SPEAKER- Why not both?
05:58SPEAKER- Realistically though,
06:00SPEAKERlike you have two people live in your house.
06:01SPEAKERI have three people live in my house.
06:03SPEAKERWe're not doing, if we had six or 10 people in the house,
06:06SPEAKERmaybe concurrency would be an issue.
06:09SPEAKER- Yeah.
06:10SPEAKER- You don't need this.
06:11SPEAKER- I don't need it, but I do need it.
06:14SPEAKER- Yeah.
06:15SPEAKER- It's probably a tax write-off, we can podcast about it.
06:18SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, this is like,
06:19SPEAKERwe've already done enough to write it off.
06:21SPEAKERI'm not an accountant, yeah.
06:23SPEAKER- Stay tuned.
06:24SPEAKER- Yeah, anyway, look, this is the kind of rationalization,
06:27SPEAKERthe, hey, this is my tax rate discounted
06:30SPEAKERoff of the price of whatever I'm buying.
06:32SPEAKEREncourages me to buy a bunch of stupid shit.
06:34SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
06:35SPEAKERI will say real fast before we move on,
06:37SPEAKERif you hang out at the networking channel on the Discord,
06:40SPEAKERaffordable 10 gigabit network gear
06:42SPEAKERis becoming very ubiquitous, very quick.
06:45SPEAKER- Oh, that's interesting.
06:45SPEAKER- Literally six months to a year ago,
06:47SPEAKERthere was nothing.
06:48SPEAKERYou would have to spend like 800, $1,000
06:50SPEAKERto get a good network switch
06:51SPEAKERthat could handle that kind of speed.
06:52SPEAKERBut there are finally like the sort of Shenzhen,
06:55SPEAKERlike no name companies have caught up
06:57SPEAKERand there are, you can buy a $70 switch now
07:00SPEAKERthat has four 2.5 gig ports
07:02SPEAKERand two 10 gig ports on it for 70 bucks.
07:05SPEAKER- It's interesting you say that
07:06SPEAKER'cause I have an old ubiquity switch
07:07SPEAKERthat like was getting decommissioned
07:10SPEAKERfrom a friend of the site's place of work.
07:12SPEAKERAnd he was like,
07:13SPEAKERwe're gonna send it to electronics recycling.
07:14SPEAKERSo if you wanna come down and grab any of this stuff,
07:16SPEAKERcome on down.
07:17SPEAKERAnd I came on down and got like a 24 port switch
07:20SPEAKERwith two 2.5 gig fiber ports on it.
07:24SPEAKERI don't even use the fiber.
07:24SPEAKERLike I'd have to crawl under the house
07:26SPEAKERto use the fiber ports where the switch is.
07:28SPEAKERBut like, yeah, the concept of running the fiber once
07:33SPEAKERand then just upgrading the switch
07:34SPEAKERfrom 2.5 gigabits to 10 gigabits is kind of compelling.
07:38SPEAKERI don't know that I have slots though is the other issue.
07:41SPEAKER- That is a problem, I can tell you.
07:43SPEAKER- Anyway.
07:44SPEAKER- PCI express slots, they're back in fashion.
07:46SPEAKER- Yeah, but what I need is a USB 3.2 to fiber adapter.
07:51SPEAKERThat's the way to make this the best, I think.
07:54SPEAKERBrad, what are we doing this week?
07:55SPEAKERWhat do we got?
07:56SPEAKER- I need to go to Discord and credits
07:58SPEAKERthe person who sent this topic in.
08:01SPEAKERRemember when we did the killed by Google episode?
08:04SPEAKER- That was a long time ago, it seems like.
08:05SPEAKER- It probably was a very long time ago, actually.
08:08SPEAKER- But I mean, so there's a site called,
08:12SPEAKERit's like killed by Google.
08:15SPEAKERIt was the first time I'd seen something like this,
08:17SPEAKERbut it's like a graveyard site for Google.
08:20SPEAKERGoogle graveyard, it's literally killedbygoogle.com.
08:23SPEAKERIt's a nice little, they have guillotines and tombstones,
08:27SPEAKERdepending on whether they died natural deaths
08:29SPEAKERor are on the cutting board now.
08:33SPEAKERAnd it's a really, it's interesting to go back
08:37SPEAKERand look at the things that Google has killed
08:40SPEAKERthroughout the years.
08:42SPEAKERSo we did that a couple years ago.
08:43SPEAKER- Yeah, they're kind of infamous for it.
08:46SPEAKER- RIP Google Reader forever.
08:48SPEAKER- Yes.
08:49SPEAKER- RIP Google Inbox forever.
08:50SPEAKERRIP Google Podcasts coming soon to the end of life.
08:56SPEAKER- Well, hey, now we're back
08:56SPEAKERwith a new collection of guillotines.
08:58SPEAKER- Yeah.
08:59SPEAKER- Thanks to Pacman326 on the Discord for sending this in.
09:03SPEAKERThere's, this has to be the same people.
09:04SPEAKERI was looking at the sort of copyright on the page.
09:07SPEAKERYes, it is the same guy.
09:08SPEAKER- Same person, same person, okay.
09:09SPEAKERIt's the same design, it looks like.
09:11SPEAKER- Yes, same guillotines, same tombstones.
09:13SPEAKERKilled by Microsoft.
09:14SPEAKER- Yeah, .info for this one is the URL.
09:16SPEAKERSo it's the same idea, like here's all the stuff
09:19SPEAKERthat they've killed over the years.
09:20SPEAKERWe went through and picked some
09:22SPEAKERthat we thought were interesting and noteworthy.
09:24SPEAKERAnd we're gonna talk through 'em.
09:27SPEAKER'Cause there's a bunch of, there's like a weird mix of stuff
09:29SPEAKERthat everybody knows about.
09:29SPEAKERAnd then there's stuff that was like important,
09:32SPEAKERbut kind of you don't really remember anymore.
09:35SPEAKERAnd Microsoft's, like this is a weirder exercise
09:37SPEAKERfor Microsoft 'cause a lot of the stuff that they killed,
09:40SPEAKERthey killed in a time before Google.
09:43SPEAKERIronically, it's not really irony, but it's weird.
09:46SPEAKERSo it's hard to find information about things
09:48SPEAKERthat were killed prior to like 2002 or 2003
09:51SPEAKERbecause the search engines don't really index those pages
09:54SPEAKERparticularly well and it's a little fraught.
10:00SPEAKERBut we don't have these in any particular order.
10:02SPEAKERI think we should start with some of the big ones.
10:04SPEAKERLike there's a, for me, like the big thing
10:08SPEAKERthat Microsoft killed in the last decade
10:10SPEAKERis like their three screen strategy from like the mid 2000s,
10:14SPEAKERthe early bomber days until like mid 2010s,
10:18SPEAKERprobably like 2010s.
10:20SPEAKER- Yeah, like how do you define that?
10:21SPEAKER'Cause it seems like that encompasses
10:23SPEAKERquite a few of these products actually.
10:24SPEAKER- A lot of them roll up here.
10:26SPEAKERSo the three screen strategy was the idea
10:27SPEAKERthat computing was going to move beyond the desktop computer
10:31SPEAKERthat sits in your office or in your dining room
10:34SPEAKERand your kitchen table or wherever people used computers
10:37SPEAKERin the early, like if you think back to the early 2000s
10:40SPEAKERwhen they came up with this,
10:42SPEAKERthe idea that mobile computing was going to be ubiquitous
10:46SPEAKERand powerful was pretty far off.
10:48SPEAKERLike laptops were, like if you bought a laptop,
10:50SPEAKERit was probably a thing that you had for work
10:52SPEAKER'cause you traveled or you needed to be able to work
10:53SPEAKERin different places.
10:55SPEAKERAnd a lot of work computers were still like
10:58SPEAKEReither all in ones or desktops or something,
11:00SPEAKERsomething that just sat on a desk someplace and didn't move.
11:04SPEAKERThey were looking at that transition from desktop PC
11:09SPEAKERinto more ubiquitous computing in the house
11:12SPEAKERand they came up with this three screen strategy
11:14SPEAKERwhich was the desktop PC still the core of the whole thing.
11:17SPEAKERIt's like where you go to play games,
11:18SPEAKERwhere the kids do their homework and write projects
11:20SPEAKERand all that kind of stuff.
11:22SPEAKERBut then they also were like, hey, there's two more screens
11:24SPEAKERthat are gonna be of interest in the house.
11:25SPEAKEROne is the living room and the other one is your phone.
11:30SPEAKERAnd this was kind of their response
11:33SPEAKERto the post iPhone world.
11:34SPEAKERAnd I think that the living room part of it
11:37SPEAKERwas primarily because they knew that they didn't have,
11:40SPEAKERlike they were way behind on phones
11:42SPEAKERwhen iPhone and later Android rolled out.
11:45SPEAKERLike the Windows phone was still Windows mobile
11:48SPEAKERat that point.
11:49SPEAKERAnd it was a business tool for business as users.
11:52SPEAKERAnd like the coolest thing they had in that market
11:54SPEAKERlooked like a danger hip top
11:55SPEAKERthat was about three times the thickness.
11:58SPEAKERAnd it wasn't something that normal people were gonna use.
12:02SPEAKER- When did Ballmer become CEO?
12:04SPEAKERWhen did the strategy roll out?
12:06SPEAKERI'm curious where this is placed on the timeline
12:10SPEAKERrelative to the first Xbox.
12:12SPEAKER- So the first Xbox was the initial shot of this.
12:17SPEAKERThree screens in the cloud was 2009, I believe.
12:22SPEAKER- Oh, okay.
12:23SPEAKER- Is when they first rolled that out.
12:25SPEAKERBut they'd clearly been working on the living room
12:27SPEAKERfor a long time at this point.
12:28SPEAKER- That's what I was wondering is,
12:29SPEAKERit was kind of a chicken and egg thing.
12:31SPEAKERWas the first Xbox the first salvo in this plan
12:34SPEAKERor did this plan sort of catch up to what the people
12:37SPEAKERin the Xbox division had already been doing?
12:39SPEAKER- So as is often the case at Microsoft,
12:42SPEAKERmy feeling was always that the Xbox division
12:46SPEAKERand the Microsoft division were all both,
12:48SPEAKERand the Windows division were both competing
12:49SPEAKERto be the living room screen against each other primarily.
12:53SPEAKER'Cause like nobody else gave a shit at that point.
12:55SPEAKERLike Apple rolled out the Apple TV,
12:56SPEAKERbut it was just a way to watch iTunes movies
12:58SPEAKERon your living room and nothing really else.
13:00SPEAKERAnd that was kind of before like Roku,
13:03SPEAKERlike when the Xbox was taking off
13:05SPEAKERand when they launched Windows Media Center
13:07SPEAKERwith like late in the XP life cycle in like 2004,
13:11SPEAKERthere wasn't a, there wasn't anybody else
13:15SPEAKERpaying attention to that space.
13:16SPEAKERIt was like TiVo had the DVR box
13:18SPEAKERthat hooked up to your cable, but you couldn't,
13:21SPEAKERlike Netflix didn't exist as a streaming service at that point
13:23SPEAKERit was a place you got discs in the mail.
13:25SPEAKERAnd I think there were a handful of like Crackle
13:31SPEAKERor there were early, like really limited streaming service,
13:35SPEAKERlike stars based streaming services
13:37SPEAKERor something at that point.
13:38SPEAKERBut it wasn't, it was something for weirdos and nerds,
13:40SPEAKERnot for normal people.
13:41SPEAKERSo saying, hey, we have the games part of the living room,
13:45SPEAKERwhich they did reasonably well on,
13:47SPEAKERbut like this was approaching Xbox 360 launch
13:49SPEAKERand they were in a good position,
13:52SPEAKEReven though the first Xbox was kind of a failure,
13:55SPEAKERthey were prepped for success with the 360.
14:01SPEAKERThe windows media center stuff was their pitch was,
14:04SPEAKERhey, this can be your TiVo,
14:05SPEAKERbut also it'll let you watch videos and pictures
14:08SPEAKERand stuff from your computer too.
14:09SPEAKERSo you could watch home movies or you could watch DVDs
14:12SPEAKERthat you had theoretically ripped,
14:13SPEAKERwhich was still against the law at that point.
14:15SPEAKERYou could presumably watch pirated stuff,
14:19SPEAKERbut only in really specific codex.
14:22SPEAKERAnd then you could do things like watch DVDs.
14:26SPEAKERBut the big thing was, hey, we have a PVR.
14:28SPEAKERSo you could get a HGTV decoder with cable cards
14:33SPEAKERthat you could jam up to six tuners into your PC
14:37SPEAKERand record six channels at once across HGTV and broadcast,
14:41SPEAKERwhich was kind of nuts at the time.
14:44SPEAKER- All for the low, low price of having a whole ass computer
14:47SPEAKERsitting in your living room next to your TV.
14:49SPEAKER- And look, people made buck wild computer designs
14:52SPEAKERfor that thing.
14:53SPEAKERLike the people would make a fanless design media center PCs
14:55SPEAKERthat had heat pipes from the hot stuff inside the box
15:00SPEAKERout to a full aluminum chassis with cooling fins on the side
15:03SPEAKERand banana bonkers stuff.
15:05SPEAKERSo they just radiate heat inside your entertainment center.
15:08SPEAKER- Wait, was there a whole hardcore
15:09SPEAKERWindows Media Center community?
15:11SPEAKER- Oh, was there a hardcore Windows Media Center community?
15:14SPEAKERYes, there were a bunch of people
15:16SPEAKERthat got real excited about this.
15:17SPEAKERThere were multiple fan sites that were doing builds.
15:21SPEAKERThe unfortunate thing was for a long time,
15:23SPEAKERyou couldn't build the encrypted digital tuners
15:28SPEAKERon homebrew machines.
15:29SPEAKERSo you had to buy them from someplace.
15:31SPEAKERAnd eventually there ended up being retailers
15:33SPEAKERthat would sell you those with a Windows license.
15:36SPEAKERLike they figured out what the letter of the law
15:38SPEAKERwas required to get Microsoft to authorize those
15:40SPEAKERand make them work.
15:42SPEAKERBut it wasn't like you could just buy a qualm tuner
15:44SPEAKERand jam it in your PC and suddenly plug a cable card in
15:47SPEAKERand have HBO on your desktop.
15:50SPEAKERHonestly, the big problem with the media center stuff
15:53SPEAKERwas that they didn't,
15:55SPEAKERso it was a 10 foot interface that worked with a remote.
15:58SPEAKERThey didn't embrace games at all.
16:00SPEAKER'Cause again, Microsoft, Windows and Xbox
16:02SPEAKERwere in eternal battle with each other at this point.
16:06SPEAKERAnd the codec stuff was really rough.
16:09SPEAKERSo like all of the DVR stuff was used by Microsoft codecs
16:13SPEAKERand DRM.
16:15SPEAKERSo you could download, you could record stuff off of the TV
16:20SPEAKERand then you would only be able to watch it
16:21SPEAKERin the 10 foot interface app.
16:23SPEAKERYou could even like load it up in Windows media player
16:24SPEAKERor stuff like that for the most part
16:26SPEAKERwithout doing some fairly involved stuff to decrypt it.
16:30SPEAKERAnd it lasted through XP, through Vista.
16:35SPEAKERI think they laid, they reassigned most of the team
16:38SPEAKERafter the Vista release and it came out,
16:40SPEAKERit was still in Windows 7,
16:42SPEAKERbut it was basically unchanged
16:44SPEAKERfrom the Windows Vista version at that point.
16:45SPEAKERAnd then they killed it before they moved to Windows 8.
16:48SPEAKER- Yeah, it's 2002 to 2015 RIP.
16:51SPEAKERIt's crazy to see that thing came out
16:53SPEAKERbarely a year after the first Xbox
16:55SPEAKERand yet there was zero synergy between the two.
16:57SPEAKERI mean, different divisions, doing different products,
16:59SPEAKERlike not communicating with each other, I get it, but.
17:02SPEAKER- Yeah, there's the XKCD about the org charts at Microsoft
17:05SPEAKERwhere they showed the different clouds with guns
17:07SPEAKERall pointing at each other.
17:08SPEAKERI think that was very representative of that time.
17:10SPEAKER- Sure, the Gates and Ballmer years were a whole thing.
17:16SPEAKER- Look, it was a dysfunctional family at that point,
17:18SPEAKERit seems like in retrospect.
17:20SPEAKERBut there was a bunch of other stuff around this.
17:24SPEAKERI think they called this the fun hub,
17:26SPEAKERwas the idea that your living room would be the fun hub
17:29SPEAKERwhere all the fun happened.
17:30SPEAKERYou'd have a Windows Media Center PC, you'd have an Xbox.
17:33SPEAKERAt the same time, Games for Windows
17:35SPEAKERwas coming out in that same window.
17:36SPEAKERThat's 2005 when Media Center PC landed
17:39SPEAKERwas when we first started talking to people at Microsoft
17:41SPEAKERabout the promise of Games for Windows,
17:44SPEAKERwhich brought us to the Xbox 360 controller support
17:47SPEAKERfor every game ever, which is a great thing.
17:50SPEAKER- It wasn't all guns pointing at each other.
17:52SPEAKERIt was a weird dysfunctional situation though.
17:55SPEAKER- Yeah, should we talk about Windows Home Server?
17:58SPEAKERDoes that tie in enough to this?
18:00SPEAKERWas that around?
18:01SPEAKER- This is part of the same kind of initiative.
18:04SPEAKERThis was a home, so Windows Home Server
18:07SPEAKERwas like a home NAS OS that was based on Windows Server,
18:11SPEAKERdifferent versions over the years.
18:14SPEAKERAnd the main thing was they built a app front end for it
18:19SPEAKERthat you loaded on your Windows PC,
18:21SPEAKERand you did all of the maintenance.
18:24SPEAKERYou didn't have to know an IP address to connect to it.
18:26SPEAKERSo it was set up to be very easy,
18:28SPEAKERplugging in an external storage device,
18:30SPEAKERbut you just plugged it.
18:31SPEAKERThe idea was you plug it into the switch on your router,
18:34SPEAKERand then you would have a place to first backup
18:37SPEAKERall of your Windows PCs in your house,
18:39SPEAKERwhich was actually easily the best part of the thing
18:41SPEAKERwas you installed the client on each of the Windows PCs,
18:45SPEAKERand then every night at 10 o'clock
18:46SPEAKERit would make a diff copy of whatever changed
18:49SPEAKERon your PC that day, and you could restore it anytime.
18:52SPEAKERIt was really, really easy and really good.
18:55SPEAKER- That actually sounds super useful.
18:56SPEAKERYeah, the main reason I even wanted to ask about this
18:58SPEAKERis that you describe it here
19:00SPEAKERas a headless application managed home NAS.
19:03SPEAKERThe idea of a headless Windows machine
19:05SPEAKERseems so anathema to the whole idea of Windows
19:07SPEAKERthat I wanted to know, but it was just a custom app,
19:10SPEAKERI assume you ran on a client machine
19:13SPEAKERthat would administrate it?
19:15SPEAKER- Yeah, so you download a special app.
19:16SPEAKERIt was, you could get it from the machine
19:18SPEAKERif you knew how to connect to it on the LAN.
19:19SPEAKERIt was just in a shared folder by default.
19:21SPEAKERIt was really slow.
19:23SPEAKERLike it was janky even for the time for Windows,
19:26SPEAKERbut it did things like let you do a JBOD
19:29SPEAKERthat had redundancy, and it did all sorts
19:32SPEAKERof cool Windows storage spaces stuff that became,
19:34SPEAKERit's kind of built into Windows at this point.
19:37SPEAKER- Just a bunch of disks for people?
19:39SPEAKER- Yeah, and it would do parity across them,
19:41SPEAKERso like if you, you could put in different size disks,
19:45SPEAKERand you could say, okay, what's the smallest disk
19:47SPEAKERI can put in that lets me maintain parity
19:49SPEAKERso that all of my data is on at least two drives?
19:51SPEAKEREvery bit of data is on at least two drives.
19:53SPEAKERAnd you could say on each share,
19:56SPEAKERjust like you can with FreeNAS, TrueNAS,
19:58SPEAKERwhich ones are duplicated, which ones aren't, right?
20:01SPEAKERSo you could make a, on the same set of drives,
20:04SPEAKERyou could say, okay, the photo share,
20:05SPEAKERI want to be on all the drives,
20:07SPEAKERbut the downloaded software one just needs to be on one drive
20:13SPEAKERbecause it's basically a temporary dumping ground.
20:16SPEAKERThe performance wasn't great,
20:17SPEAKERbut like HP and Asus and a bunch of Acer,
20:19SPEAKERa bunch of companies supported the initiative,
20:21SPEAKERand they built these cool, headless little machines,
20:24SPEAKERlike the HP MediaSmart was like a, I don't know,
20:29SPEAKERit was like four, it was like six hard drives high basically,
20:31SPEAKERand it had four, it had a little door
20:33SPEAKERthat opened in the front, you could jam a hard drive
20:34SPEAKERjust straight into the slot in the front,
20:36SPEAKERand it would detect it and connect and all that.
20:41SPEAKERIf you had hard drive failures, it was problematic,
20:44SPEAKERyou have to do data recovery is my understanding.
20:46SPEAKER- Right, yeah, I didn't even know what a NAS was,
20:48SPEAKERI had no idea like what Synology even was in 2007,
20:50SPEAKERso this actually does seem like weirdly ahead of its time,
20:53SPEAKERalthough looking at your notes, I think I know why.
20:56SPEAKERWhich you read here, seems like they saw people
20:59SPEAKERbuying small and cheap NASes that were basically
21:01SPEAKERexternal storage plus Linux plus a network interface
21:04SPEAKERand didn't want to seed that, that reminds me,
21:06SPEAKERthis would have been right in the middle of the,
21:09SPEAKERlike we fucking hate Linux and want to destroy it era,
21:13SPEAKERright, like they're like, I follow some of those,
21:15SPEAKERsome of those like letters of note, you know,
21:18SPEAKERlike leaked tech emails type Twitter accounts
21:20SPEAKERthat mostly are just posting screenshots of emails
21:23SPEAKERfrom legal discovery from various court cases,
21:27SPEAKERbut I feel like you'll see, you'll see an email pop up
21:29SPEAKERhere and there of like Steve Ballmer raging about Linux
21:31SPEAKERor clear, make it very clear.
21:33SPEAKER- Free software is the enemy,
21:34SPEAKERI think was one of the big ones there.
21:36SPEAKER- Making it very clear how the leadership at the time
21:39SPEAKERsaw things like open-source software.
21:42SPEAKER- And just to be clear, this, I guess Synology was around
21:44SPEAKERas like a business, a business hardware at this point.
21:47SPEAKER- I think that's what, like Vinnie was using that
21:49SPEAKERat China Bond even early on, I think to archive footage
21:53SPEAKERand stuff, maybe, maybe, maybe not actually that early.
21:56SPEAKER- He went and just turned it onto a bunch of disks
21:57SPEAKERwith a big drive cage, I think.
21:59SPEAKER- Later we did have Synologies, but that was,
22:02SPEAKERI remember Synologies around like 2012, 2013,
22:05SPEAKERso maybe before that went around, actually.
22:06SPEAKER- CBS, right, the thing that was happening then
22:10SPEAKERwas like Western Digital, the external hard drive companies
22:13SPEAKERwere putting really, really low-end like MIPS CPUs
22:18SPEAKERand stuff like that on external hard drives
22:23SPEAKERand those were going into the,
22:28SPEAKERlike they were putting network ports on them basically,
22:30SPEAKERso you'd get like a really, really, really slow NAS,
22:35SPEAKERbut the external hard drive would be available
22:37SPEAKERto everybody in the house, so.
22:40SPEAKERSo yeah, and that tied in with Media Center,
22:43SPEAKERyou could share, it used all the home group stuff
22:46SPEAKERfrom Windows Vista that nobody liked and nobody ever used
22:49SPEAKERand like they killed it, I think even before Windows 7
22:51SPEAKERcame out, maybe like between Windows 7 and Windows 8.
22:56SPEAKERBut yeah, it was a weird time for really everyone
23:00SPEAKERwith the home server.
23:02SPEAKERIt was also, the best thing about home server though
23:04SPEAKERwas when they went to CES and the home server
23:07SPEAKERhad the big Microsoft ad buy that year
23:10SPEAKERand all of the banners were like,
23:12SPEAKER"Mommy, why is there a server in my house?"
23:14SPEAKERAnd I assumed that this was driven out
23:17SPEAKERof the server division, like the Windows home server thing
23:21SPEAKERwas driven out of the server division,
23:23SPEAKERnot the Windows division, but I don't really know,
23:25SPEAKERit was, I always talked to, it was always new people there,
23:28SPEAKERso when we talked to them, I should have actually
23:30SPEAKERlooked at that, but again, the hardware was nice,
23:34SPEAKERit was quiet, you could put it on a bookshelf
23:35SPEAKERand it didn't heat up your living room or your closet
23:38SPEAKERor wherever you chucked it.
23:40SPEAKER- Yeah, that's actually a pretty neat idea.
23:43SPEAKERThat no longer exists, just like everything else
23:44SPEAKERthat we're talking about here.
23:46SPEAKER- Dead.
23:46SPEAKER- Yeah, we should, I should, 2007 to 2013
23:49SPEAKERwas the Windows home server lifespan.
23:51SPEAKER- That lasted longer than I, I think when they stopped
23:54SPEAKERsupporting that is when I switched,
23:56SPEAKER'cause that was the first home server I built,
23:57SPEAKERwas a, I bought one of those HP media smarts
24:02SPEAKER'cause it was a really good little package,
24:04SPEAKERit was a little Celeron CPU or Atom CPU, yeah.
24:09SPEAKERAnd then I built a FreeNAS machine after that,
24:11SPEAKERis that thing conked out?
24:14SPEAKER- You wanna talk about some of the media stuff here,
24:16SPEAKERthere's a good bit of that.
24:18SPEAKER- Yeah, we could, like before, I think Windows Phone,
24:20SPEAKERthere's probably a lot to get into, but I think Zune,
24:23SPEAKERI think there's a nice through line from Zune
24:24SPEAKERto Windows Phone, 'cause those kind of,
24:27SPEAKERdid you ever actually see a Zune?
24:31SPEAKER- I think there was a Zune or two around the office
24:33SPEAKERhere and there.
24:34SPEAKER- I think we had a Zune, a brown one that somebody sent in
24:37SPEAKERmaybe after they stopped working.
24:40SPEAKER- Wait, did you guys not have like Zunes for testing?
24:42SPEAKER- I have, well, so they came out while I was still
24:44SPEAKERat maximum PC.
24:45SPEAKER- Oh, okay.
24:46SPEAKER- And I think I had a--
24:46SPEAKER- They had that old?
24:48SPEAKER- Yeah, 'cause they were iPod competitors, right?
24:50SPEAKER- Sure, sure, sure.
24:51SPEAKER- Like the Zune HD came out in 2009, I think, or 2009,
24:56SPEAKERI maybe clicked that tab already.
24:57SPEAKER- Zune media player, 2006.
25:00SPEAKER- That's the first one but the HD was the third gen one.
25:03SPEAKER- God, actually, there were a lot of mentions
25:05SPEAKERof the word Zune on this page, actually.
25:07SPEAKER- Yeah, it turns out.
25:08SPEAKER- 2006 to, I think 2006 was the initial Zune release.
25:12SPEAKER- Yeah, so the Zune was another like embrace,
25:16SPEAKERextend, exterminate kind of move by Microsoft.
25:20SPEAKERBut it's also really indicative of the level to which
25:24SPEAKERthat they didn't understand the market
25:26SPEAKERthat they were getting into.
25:28SPEAKER- 'Cause like if you think back to that time,
25:30SPEAKERApple rolled out the iPod in the early 2000s
25:34SPEAKERand then quickly iTunes came out and like the idea
25:37SPEAKERthat you could buy a song for 99 cents
25:39SPEAKERand it would put it on your device and listen to it
25:41SPEAKERlike five minutes later was pretty novel at that time.
25:45SPEAKERThe other more successful idea was you could go to Napster
25:48SPEAKERand just download the song for free and put it
25:50SPEAKERon your device in about 45 seconds.
25:52SPEAKER- True.
25:53SPEAKER- Probably more successful, less business-y.
25:55SPEAKER- I've heard it's true, I've heard it's true.
25:57SPEAKERI can't speak from experience.
25:58SPEAKER- Look, the ID3 tags were always bad on those,
26:00SPEAKERso I didn't actually do that.
26:01SPEAKERI just bought CDs and ripped them.
26:04SPEAKERBut the, so the iPod came out.
26:08SPEAKERThere had been MP3 players before the iPod,
26:10SPEAKERbut the interface, like they weren't particularly
26:12SPEAKERuser-friendly both from the aspect of getting music
26:16SPEAKERonto them and the like navigating a large library of files
26:20SPEAKERon a pre-iPod MP3 player usually involved some sort
26:25SPEAKERof terrible D-pad and clicking a million times.
26:28SPEAKERSo Microsoft looked at what they did with the iPod
26:30SPEAKERand was like, okay, we can do this.
26:32SPEAKERAnd they built a thing that looked like an iPod
26:33SPEAKERbut was brown.
26:34SPEAKERI think it came in black and a couple of other colors too.
26:37SPEAKER- It sure was brown.
26:38SPEAKER- But it was like full-on shit brown,
26:40SPEAKERjust a terrible, terrible brown.
26:43SPEAKERAnd they were like, we're gonna put, we're gonna,
26:45SPEAKERyou know what, people love stuff that's connected.
26:47SPEAKERThis was before we had realized that the internet
26:49SPEAKERof shit was a thing.
26:51SPEAKERAnd they put wifi on it, even the first gen.
26:57SPEAKERAnd at the beginning you couldn't really use the wifi
26:59SPEAKERfor anything, but then they released an update
27:01SPEAKERthat would let you squirt, I think was the technical term,
27:05SPEAKERfiles from one player to another.
27:07SPEAKERWhen you found another Zune user and they were like,
27:10SPEAKERyo man, what are you listening to?
27:11SPEAKERAnd you're like, hey, I'm listening to, I don't know,
27:13SPEAKERDoobie Brothers.
27:14SPEAKERAnd you'd be like, hey, you wanna squirt me
27:16SPEAKERthat Doobie Brothers track?
27:17SPEAKERAnd they're like, yeah, I'll do that.
27:18SPEAKERAnd then you could listen to it three times
27:20SPEAKERover the next three days and it would just disappear.
27:22SPEAKERBut it only worked on stuff that you'd gotten
27:26SPEAKERfrom the Zune place for Zune store or whatever it was.
27:30SPEAKERSo like all of the MP3s you'd stolen from Napster
27:32SPEAKERdidn't do the cool thing that the Zune was famous for.
27:36SPEAKERAnd that was pretty much it
27:38SPEAKERfor the first couple of generations.
27:40SPEAKERThe first couple of generations, more or less the same.
27:41SPEAKERThe first one had a kind of a touch wheel thing.
27:43SPEAKERThe second one had this risk squircle,
27:46SPEAKERlike a squared circle D-Patty deal.
27:50SPEAKERBut they did a pretty good job with the navigation stuff.
27:52SPEAKERYou could navigate that large collection pretty easily.
27:54SPEAKERThey had hard drives in them, so they were up to 30 gigs.
27:58SPEAKERAnd then the third generation one came out.
28:01SPEAKERThis whole Zune effort was run by Jay Allard
28:04SPEAKERin the pre, around the Xbox 360 timeframe.
28:10SPEAKER- Yeah, actually now that you mention it,
28:12SPEAKERhe was all over the marketing for the launch of the 360
28:15SPEAKERand then vanished almost immediately.
28:16SPEAKER- He understood all of the things that were cool
28:19SPEAKERis why they had him do this, I think.
28:20SPEAKER'Cause music was cool and nobody else there was cool.
28:24SPEAKER- I mean, in 2006 is, that's a year-ish before this.
28:28SPEAKER2007 was the iPhone, right?
28:29SPEAKERSo like iPods were still the biggest thing in the world
28:32SPEAKERbecause the iPhone hadn't happened yet, right?
28:33SPEAKERSo of course they were still chasing that.
28:35SPEAKER- Well, iPods didn't, iPods still grew, as I recall,
28:38SPEAKERfor a couple of years after the iPhone was announced
28:40SPEAKER'cause the iPhone was expensive.
28:41SPEAKERAnd like it was, first couple of iPhones were weird
28:43SPEAKERfor reasons, it's something we should talk about.
28:46SPEAKER- Yeah, but I mean, actually to step all the way back though,
28:48SPEAKERlike the key distinction between this
28:50SPEAKERand the Killed by Google episode to me,
28:52SPEAKERas I was looking through over all this stuff,
28:53SPEAKERis that like Google has the reputation
28:55SPEAKERfor killing off things kind of at their prime
28:57SPEAKERor that people are still really enjoying.
29:00SPEAKERLike Google Plus, not withstanding,
29:02SPEAKERbut like a lot of other stuff they kill,
29:05SPEAKERpeople get very upset about
29:06SPEAKERbecause they are still in wide use.
29:08SPEAKER- Yeah.
29:09SPEAKER- Like the theme of this Microsoft stuff is like you said,
29:11SPEAKERit's like the embrace, extend, extinguish ethos
29:14SPEAKERis all over the place here
29:15SPEAKERbecause there are so many examples of them
29:17SPEAKERlooking at a thing that has blown up and not saying,
29:20SPEAKERhey, how can we get into the thing that's blown up
29:22SPEAKERand make money off of it?
29:22SPEAKERIt is, hey, how can we build our own version of that
29:25SPEAKERand slowly destroy it and replace it with ours?
29:28SPEAKERSo it's like Zoom to the iPod, Windows Phone to iOS,
29:32SPEAKERSilverlight to Adobe Flash is on here.
29:35SPEAKER- Oh God.
29:36SPEAKER- Mixer to Twitch.
29:38SPEAKERYou know, there's like example after example on here
29:40SPEAKERof them just saying,
29:41SPEAKERhey, we're just gonna build our own thing like that.
29:44SPEAKERIt never seems to work.
29:45SPEAKER- And it's like where Google looks at something like,
29:48SPEAKERoh, we're never gonna make money on this.
29:49SPEAKERThey just kill it out right there.
29:51SPEAKERMicrosoft looks at it and is like,
29:52SPEAKERhey, can we make this shittier
29:54SPEAKERso that we do make money with it
29:56SPEAKERwithout people stopping to use it
29:58SPEAKERand then people stop using it and then they turn it off.
30:00SPEAKER- Yeah.
30:01SPEAKER- Which is like what happened with the Zoom.
30:02SPEAKERLike the Zoom just got killed by phones, I think actually.
30:05SPEAKERRather like the Zoom HD was a really cool music player
30:08SPEAKERin a time when like nobody needed music players.
30:12SPEAKER- Yeah, there's really not that much on this list
30:15SPEAKERthat you look at and go like,
30:16SPEAKERoh man, that thing was like destroyed
30:18SPEAKERin the prime of its existence.
30:19SPEAKERLike most everything on here is just like,
30:21SPEAKERyeah, okay, you see why they killed it
30:22SPEAKERor nobody was using it or it's like its time had passed.
30:25SPEAKER- I think like Media Center is one of those ones that like,
30:29SPEAKERI think in the modern era of Microsoft
30:32SPEAKERwhere they use external software
30:33SPEAKERand don't have to grow their own video codecs
30:35SPEAKERand DRM and everything for everything.
30:37SPEAKERI think that like a 10 foot interface for Windows
30:44SPEAKERis much more interesting with a modern like $99 Beelink PC.
30:48SPEAKERYou can just hang on the visa mounts
30:49SPEAKERon the back of your TV than it was.
30:52SPEAKER- Oh God, I never thought about that.
30:53SPEAKER- Yeah, right?
30:54SPEAKER- Oh my God.
30:56SPEAKER- Yeah, so.
30:57SPEAKER- You're totally right, yeah.
30:58SPEAKERMan, I never thought about putting the thing
31:01SPEAKERon the visa mount, that's, hmm.
31:03SPEAKER- Yeah, you can buy, you can put your Apple TV on it.
31:06SPEAKERThere's a bunch of Amazon things
31:07SPEAKERthat are like, hey, here's a clamp
31:08SPEAKERthat'll let you put an Apple TV on the visa mount
31:10SPEAKERor like wall mounted TVs and stuff like that.
31:12SPEAKER- Might have to think that over.
31:14SPEAKER- But yeah, it's like, I feel like Media Center
31:16SPEAKERwas probably way too early.
31:18SPEAKERI think maybe Home Server was actually way too early too.
31:20SPEAKER'Cause if, again, if they had done Home Server
31:22SPEAKERin a world where like Storage Center was working,
31:26SPEAKERlike the Windows Storage stuff was working right
31:27SPEAKERand it wasn't kind of janky
31:29SPEAKERand like also they knew how to build apps
31:30SPEAKERthat were fast at that point.
31:32SPEAKERIt was a different, it's a different experience.
31:37SPEAKERLike people didn't know they needed storage
31:39SPEAKERin their garage at that point.
31:40SPEAKERAnd now if you had a, hey, back up all the computers
31:43SPEAKERin your house box at Home Depot at Best Buy for 500 bucks,
31:47SPEAKERpeople would probably buy that.
31:49SPEAKER- Yeah, I think the pendulum continues
31:51SPEAKERto swing back toward having some local storage again,
31:53SPEAKERlike in the wake of this Bandcamp thing.
31:56SPEAKER- Yeah.
31:57SPEAKER- I've seen a lot of musicians out there saying like,
31:58SPEAKERhey, the only way to truly own and safeguard
32:01SPEAKERthe music you love is to fucking have it in your house
32:03SPEAKERbecause all these Bandcamp was like the coolest
32:07SPEAKERone of those services out there
32:08SPEAKERand everything is subject to getting fucked with eventually.
32:13SPEAKER- Yeah.
32:15SPEAKERSo anyway, just to tie the bow on the Zune,
32:17SPEAKERlike they did, you could buy music from the Zune.
32:21SPEAKER- Like you could, on device?
32:23SPEAKER- Pick up your device and you could go to a thing
32:26SPEAKERthat was labeled the store and you could buy,
32:28SPEAKERI mean, it wasn't a Taylor Swift song
32:29SPEAKER'cause she would have been like eight then,
32:30SPEAKERbut like you could buy a song from the store
32:34SPEAKERand it would play on the device right then.
32:37SPEAKERAnd they also had a service.
32:38SPEAKERThey had to eat all you could eat service.
32:41SPEAKER- That's like the first one of those or damn near it, right?
32:44SPEAKERLike maybe there were some before that but like that,
32:47SPEAKER'cause that's like way before Spotify and stuff like that.
32:50SPEAKER- Yeah, Reel had a service before that.
32:56SPEAKERYeah, years before that, like 2002.
32:58SPEAKER- That's a name I haven't heard in a long time.
33:00SPEAKER- Yeah, it was a weird, that one was a weird mix
33:03SPEAKERof like indie labels and like it wasn't,
33:06SPEAKERthe big labels wanted nothing to do with that
33:07SPEAKER'cause they didn't trust the internet back then,
33:08SPEAKERbut it was like, it was cool, it was a neat service.
33:13SPEAKERBut it was super early for like device connected stuff.
33:16SPEAKERNow the problem with the Zune service
33:17SPEAKERwas you couldn't use it on anything but the Zune.
33:19SPEAKERSo if you wanted to listen to music
33:21SPEAKERthat you were downloading live,
33:23SPEAKERyou had to get it from the Zune
33:24SPEAKERand it had like stations and the whole thing.
33:26SPEAKERIt was pretty cool.
33:28SPEAKER- The last gasp of the Zune was in 2017
33:31SPEAKERwhen they killed the Groove music pass,
33:33SPEAKERwhich was previously the Zune music pass.
33:35SPEAKER- Oh, I probably knew that at one point,
33:37SPEAKERthe Zune became Groove.
33:40SPEAKER- It just became Groove, yeah.
33:42SPEAKERZune, I like the market research team.
33:44SPEAKERI would love, if I had a time machine
33:47SPEAKERafter I'd killed Hitler and all the other stuff
33:49SPEAKERyou do with the time machine,
33:49SPEAKERone of the things I would do is go sit in the room
33:52SPEAKERwhere the market research people were like,
33:54SPEAKERokay, here are our color choices.
33:55SPEAKERWe've got 17 shades of brown to choose from
33:58SPEAKERand we're gonna go, brown is what the people,
34:01SPEAKERit's the anti-white, but we can't do black
34:03SPEAKER'cause they also do black iPods,
34:05SPEAKERbut they've never done a brown iPod
34:07SPEAKERso we can totally stand out here.
34:09SPEAKER- It's both the color and the name, honestly, for me.
34:12SPEAKERI would love to know what combination of sounds, mouthfeel.
34:16SPEAKER- Oh, Zune is tune, it's gotta be tune, right?
34:18SPEAKER- Tune, you think so?
34:19SPEAKER- Yeah, tune.
34:20SPEAKER- Zune.
34:21SPEAKER- Tunes, Zune.
34:24SPEAKER- Like I'm surprised it wasn't just you
34:27SPEAKERin with the long you.
34:29SPEAKER- Oh, that's simple.
34:32SPEAKER- Look, it was the early 2000s,
34:33SPEAKERwe were very skeptical of foreigners in the United States
34:35SPEAKERin the early 2000s.
34:36SPEAKER- Fair.
34:38SPEAKER- Yeah, so that's Zune.
34:39SPEAKERAnd then the Windows Phone is the last part
34:43SPEAKERof this pillar, I think, right?
34:46SPEAKERThey just came out really late with Windows Phone.
34:49SPEAKERIt was ARM-based, they used the Metro design language
34:54SPEAKERof the tiles that haunted Microsoft for 10 years after.
34:59SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, I used a Windows Phone.
35:01SPEAKERYou guys let me have one, one of your old testing units
35:03SPEAKERthat you didn't care about when my phone died.
35:05SPEAKER- They would just give you,
35:06SPEAKERif you called and asked for a Windows Phone,
35:08SPEAKERthey would send you a whole big box of them.
35:09SPEAKERThey were like, "Man, somebody's interested
35:10SPEAKERabout Windows Phone, send them everything."
35:12SPEAKER- I can't remember what happened to my current phone,
35:14SPEAKERbut it was basically like,
35:14SPEAKER"Shit, I need a new phone on short notice.
35:16SPEAKERI guess I should need to go buy a new phone."
35:18SPEAKERAnd then you're like, "Hey, you can just have this Samsung
35:19SPEAKERif you want it."
35:20SPEAKER- It's like the drawer, the Windows Phone drawer.
35:23SPEAKER- Oh, what, you mean I could just put my SIM card
35:24SPEAKERin this right now and get back to work?
35:26SPEAKERSure, and then I used it for a while.
35:29SPEAKER- You used it for a pretty, I think you replaced
35:31SPEAKERwith an Android phone eventually, right?
35:32SPEAKER- Yeah, I got my hands on an Android phone
35:34SPEAKERand did the same thing, just SIM card in that.
35:36SPEAKERAnd then finally I was like,
35:37SPEAKER"You know, I'm gonna give it back to iPhone."
35:39SPEAKERThat Windows Phone and that Android phone both,
35:44SPEAKERI don't remember the key combination for,
35:47SPEAKERand I think I'm on my last attempt on both of them
35:49SPEAKERbefore they lock you out forever.
35:52SPEAKERI would love to get the photos and stuff off of there,
35:53SPEAKERbut I don't think it's ever gonna happen.
35:55SPEAKER- This is the problem with those make a pattern things.
35:58SPEAKER'Cause like I remember the number,
35:59SPEAKER'cause I use the same number on all my devices
36:01SPEAKERand I never ever remember the pattern.
36:03SPEAKER- They were both pattern based, unfortunately.
36:06SPEAKERBut the Metro interface I thought was pretty good, honestly.
36:09SPEAKER- It worked on the phone.
36:10SPEAKER- It was, yeah, it was very space efficient.
36:12SPEAKERYou know, they really fit a lot into a small space.
36:15SPEAKERIt was customizable.
36:16SPEAKERYou could change the size of the tiles.
36:18SPEAKERA lot of them were live, you know,
36:19SPEAKERso they would display live information
36:21SPEAKERbased on what the app was.
36:22SPEAKER- And that was way before Android or iOS did that, yeah.
36:26SPEAKER- It was essentially having widgets in your home.
36:29SPEAKERIn fact, it was better than widgets though,
36:30SPEAKERbecause it was still the thing that launched the app.
36:32SPEAKERSo it was like, you're getting widget data,
36:33SPEAKERbut still the launcher functionality, not one or the other.
36:37SPEAKER- I'm gonna say it was the best implementation
36:39SPEAKERof that Metro interface of all those places.
36:41SPEAKERBetter than the Xbox, better than Windows 8, all of those.
36:45SPEAKER- I really found it to be actually pretty pleasant.
36:50SPEAKERAgain, like in the same way that they made the mistake
36:54SPEAKERwith the iPod not focusing on MP3s
36:57SPEAKERand not focusing on, not realizing how important
37:00SPEAKERthe iTunes store was to, you know,
37:03SPEAKERto being able to buy music.
37:05SPEAKERI think that they missed how important the apps were
37:07SPEAKERearly on, or maybe they just couldn't attract
37:09SPEAKERapp developers 'cause people were skeptical of the platform.
37:12SPEAKERLike there was a, there was a chicken or egg thing there.
37:15SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm trying to think back to that time.
37:18SPEAKERI can't remember exactly when that was,
37:20SPEAKERbut I think it was like around the time
37:21SPEAKERthat Uber was getting big,
37:22SPEAKERbut before you realized Uber was awful.
37:25SPEAKER- Yeah.
37:26SPEAKER- And you actually still felt good about using it.
37:27SPEAKERAnd I want to say, I could be wrong
37:29SPEAKERthat the Windows Phone never got a native Uber app.
37:31SPEAKERYou had to like do it through the web
37:33SPEAKERor whatever platform agnostic option they had.
37:35SPEAKERSo like it was, it was definitely thin.
37:37SPEAKERLike the app support was not all the way there.
37:39SPEAKER- Windows Phone was the reason a lot of services
37:42SPEAKERdid open APIs for app developers.
37:44SPEAKERLike the Twitter app for Windows Phone
37:46SPEAKERwas developed by a dude for a long time.
37:49SPEAKERIt was just a third party app.
37:51SPEAKERWell, after the, they'd bought TweetDeck
37:55SPEAKERand all the other Android apps.
37:58SPEAKERIt was, it was like, like there's,
38:02SPEAKERthere's an aspect of the,
38:04SPEAKERof the Mac strategy early on in the early 2000s
38:08SPEAKERthat I think we don't think about a whole lot,
38:10SPEAKERbut Apple did a really good job of recruiting people
38:13SPEAKERto make small kind of small kind of like not utility apps,
38:18SPEAKERbut like lightweight like calendars
38:20SPEAKERand task lists and things like that.
38:24SPEAKERAnd because they were focused on design language,
38:28SPEAKERthose apps usually came out better designed
38:30SPEAKERthan you would expect them to be.
38:31SPEAKERLike the best Twitter clients were always on iOS and Mac.
38:34SPEAKERAnd as a result, the people making Windows apps
38:39SPEAKERwere making things that were really functional
38:40SPEAKERand kind of annoying to use
38:42SPEAKERor just janky or slow or whatever.
38:44SPEAKERSo I think that that kind of polluted the Windows Phone market.
38:49SPEAKERThere were, they were in the same way
38:51SPEAKERthat there were huge Windows Media Center fans
38:54SPEAKERand ecosystem of sites that grew up around that
38:56SPEAKERand huge home server fans
38:58SPEAKERand a whole ecosystem of sites that grew around that.
39:01SPEAKERThere was also a huge Windows Phone ecosystem
39:04SPEAKERwith people that were absolutely rabid for Windows Phone.
39:07SPEAKER- Yeah, I never quite got that far.
39:09SPEAKERI always say this about myself.
39:11SPEAKERI think I'm usually pretty good about knowing
39:13SPEAKERwhen to cut my losses, like I could have gone all in
39:15SPEAKERon Windows Phone, but that way lay only pain and misery.
39:19SPEAKERSo I'm glad I didn't.
39:20SPEAKERBut also I'm sitting here looking at this free shot
39:21SPEAKERof Windows Phone and like, I remember Wordament,
39:24SPEAKERwhich was the little word game that shipped on there
39:26SPEAKERthat got you Xbox achievements.
39:28SPEAKER- Yeah, you can get Xbox Cheevos on that 200 points per game.
39:31SPEAKER- God, that's right.
39:31SPEAKERThat was the other reason I liked that phone so much.
39:33SPEAKERWas like, man, there's all these games on here
39:35SPEAKERthat get you achievements, but Wordament was cool.
39:37SPEAKERLike there was cool stuff on there.
39:40SPEAKER- Yeah, you could play Hexic on that thing, right?
39:42SPEAKER- Yeah. - Yeah, that's probably
39:43SPEAKERthe only way I have to play Hexic these days.
39:45SPEAKER- Yep, I feel like we also need to talk about,
39:50SPEAKERthey haven't killed Nokia, it still technically exists,
39:52SPEAKERbut I assume the-- - Nokia, rad.
39:54SPEAKER- Nokia, Nokia. - Nokia, Nokia.
39:57SPEAKER- I have to assume Windows Phone was the reason
39:59SPEAKERthey bought Nokia and they did kill the Lumia,
40:01SPEAKERthat is on this list, the Lumia line of phones,
40:03SPEAKERwhich I thought looked very cool.
40:05SPEAKERLike I remember, actually it was when the Lumia 920
40:08SPEAKERcame out, you remember that?
40:10SPEAKER- Yeah, I found my 920 when I was cleaning out
40:12SPEAKERmy desk the other day.
40:13SPEAKERWhat the hell did I do with it?
40:15SPEAKER- That Samsung you had given me was pretty slow
40:17SPEAKERand then the 920 came out and I was like, okay,
40:20SPEAKERdo or die, do I actually pay money
40:21SPEAKERand buy into the Windows Phone ecosystem?
40:23SPEAKERBecause I think the Lumia 920 looks awesome as a phone.
40:26SPEAKER- This was a solid blue shell with just a black screen on it.
40:30SPEAKERIt was a lovely phone.
40:31SPEAKER- Yeah, and then they rolled out.
40:31SPEAKER- It was still slow, though.
40:33SPEAKER- Oh, was it?
40:33SPEAKEROkay, they rolled out other colors too.
40:35SPEAKERI think you'd get like a nice blue and stuff like that.
40:37SPEAKERIt looked great, but I opted 'til I was like,
40:40SPEAKERyou know what, I'm just gonna fucking buy an iPhone.
40:42SPEAKERForget this.
40:44SPEAKERBut yes, the Lumia is gone.
40:48SPEAKERNokia still exists, but I was like,
40:50SPEAKERyou know, I haven't seen a phone from them in a while
40:52SPEAKERand I went to their website.
40:54SPEAKERThere is not a phone to be seen
40:56SPEAKERon the front page of nokia.com.
40:58SPEAKER- So they make phones that mostly
41:00SPEAKERaren't available in our region.
41:02SPEAKERSo they do either international phones
41:07SPEAKERor phones that are often global south phones.
41:10SPEAKER- Okay.
41:11SPEAKERI wonder if they're geolocating the version of the website,
41:14SPEAKER'cause even when I go to products,
41:15SPEAKERI don't see anything about phones.
41:17SPEAKER- You can find it if you go to nokia.com/phones
41:21SPEAKERand then like the US compatible smartphones
41:24SPEAKERis what I'm seeing on this page.
41:25SPEAKER- Okay.
41:26SPEAKER- And they have a range, but it's like,
41:28SPEAKERI think their high-end phone is 500 bucks at this point.
41:30SPEAKERSo it's, you know, they found a market for themselves.
41:37SPEAKERI think they ended up getting spun back out
41:38SPEAKERof Microsoft at some point.
41:39SPEAKER- I was gonna say, I didn't see any reference
41:41SPEAKERto Microsoft on the site.
41:42SPEAKERSo maybe, maybe they did.
41:44SPEAKER- I think the thing was they bought the,
41:47SPEAKERMicrosoft ended up buying, bought the whole company
41:49SPEAKERand then spun out the stuff they didn't want
41:50SPEAKERback into Nokia.
41:51SPEAKER- Okay.
41:52SPEAKER- If I remember right, I don't, I'm not 100% on that.
41:54SPEAKERI don't, this is not the kind of stuff I usually cover.
41:58SPEAKERBut yeah, the, they had made,
42:01SPEAKERNokia was one of those companies that's like Blackberry
42:03SPEAKERthat kind of missed the smartphone thing for a long time.
42:06SPEAKER'Cause they were doing their own OS for a long time
42:08SPEAKERand they didn't jump on Android, like, like a lot of,
42:11SPEAKERlike Motorola and Sony and a bunch of the other Samsung,
42:14SPEAKERbunch of the other big, big non-Apple phone manufacturers
42:18SPEAKERdid so, so they were kind of caught out.
42:22SPEAKERAnd by the time they came around, it was,
42:24SPEAKERit was probably too late.
42:26SPEAKER- Yeah, on this phone, I'll just mention
42:28SPEAKERbefore we move on, 2010 to 2019,
42:31SPEAKERwhich is way later than I would have thought.
42:32SPEAKERThat's only four, four years ago that they killed it.
42:35SPEAKER- Yeah, I had no idea that you could still use
42:36SPEAKERa Windows phone four years ago.
42:38SPEAKER- Yeah, that's wild.
42:40SPEAKER- It did have a Zune app for a long time too,
42:42SPEAKERjust as a, so I guess maybe the Zune lasted until 2019
42:46SPEAKERin some way or another.
42:47SPEAKER- They versioned it, right?
42:48SPEAKERThey versioned it against the existing desktop Windows.
42:51SPEAKER'Cause like it, like it was like Windows phone seven,
42:52SPEAKERWindows phone 8.1, did they ever get the Windows phone 10?
42:56SPEAKER- I don't think Windows phone made it to 10.
42:58SPEAKERNo, I think it was stated,
42:59SPEAKERI think it just became Windows phone
43:00SPEAKERwhen Windows went to eight, from eight to 10.
43:03SPEAKERFinal release, Windows phone 8.1 update two.
43:06SPEAKER- Yeah.
43:07SPEAKER- RIP.
43:09SPEAKER- Never forget.
43:11SPEAKERYou wanna go back a little further in time?
43:13SPEAKER- Sure.
43:14SPEAKER- You wanna talk about,
43:15SPEAKERcan we talk about the Sidewinder line?
43:17SPEAKER- Sure.
43:18SPEAKERI remember the Sidewinder, yeah.
43:19SPEAKERI still think of them as like late nineties joysticks
43:22SPEAKERthat plug into the game port on your sound card.
43:24SPEAKER- Yeah, that's who, that's what they are.
43:27SPEAKER- That's my memory of Sidewinder.
43:29SPEAKERI don't know if they got deep into the USB era or not.
43:32SPEAKER- They had game pads as well.
43:33SPEAKERThey had, they made a Genesis style.
43:36SPEAKER- I owned that one.
43:37SPEAKER- I think it was a four button with two triggers
43:39SPEAKERand a D-pad.
43:41SPEAKER- I'm looking at, well, the one I had,
43:43SPEAKERI think it was when I worked at Electronics Boutique.
43:45SPEAKERI somehow came into one for free.
43:46SPEAKERLike they just have extras
43:49SPEAKERthat they weren't gonna sell or something like this.
43:52SPEAKERThe D-pad looks like a hunk of melted plastic.
43:55SPEAKER- Yeah, that seems right.
43:56SPEAKERI had one of those.
43:57SPEAKER- Quite literally looks like somebody heated up plastic
43:59SPEAKERand like pressed their thumb into it.
44:00SPEAKERIt's god awful looking.
44:02SPEAKER- This was, for people who are too young to remember,
44:05SPEAKERthis was in the era when you played a game pad game on your,
44:08SPEAKERpeople hated game pads on the PC.
44:10SPEAKERAnd the reason they did is when you opened up a game
44:12SPEAKERthat needed to use a game pad,
44:13SPEAKERyou had to go to the controls
44:14SPEAKERand you had to figure out what each button should be.
44:17SPEAKER- Oh yeah.
44:18SPEAKER- 'Cause for the most part, the game pads didn't know,
44:19SPEAKERthe game pads and the games didn't talk to each other.
44:22SPEAKER- Yes, for every game, to be clear.
44:25SPEAKER- Every game.
44:25SPEAKER- Not just once in Windows,
44:26SPEAKERfor every single game you played,
44:28SPEAKERyou had to go into a control thing
44:29SPEAKERand define all the buttons against the games functionality.
44:32SPEAKER- So for example, when I learned to play Mortal Kombat 4,
44:35SPEAKERwhich was the terrible 3D one,
44:38SPEAKERI had to figure out what the bindings should be
44:40SPEAKERon the D pad on the Microsoft Sidewinder.
44:44SPEAKERAnd I ended up having completely different bindings
44:47SPEAKERthan every other human being on earth.
44:49SPEAKER'Cause you know, Mortal Kombat Arcade,
44:50SPEAKERwhich is all I played really before,
44:52SPEAKERhad that weird plus kind of XE layout at the time.
44:55SPEAKERAnd anyway, it was bad.
44:57SPEAKER- Yeah.
44:58SPEAKER- And it took a long time for games.
45:00SPEAKER- How long did Sidewinder go though?
45:03SPEAKER- It went for a long time.
45:04SPEAKER- Oh wow, 2014.
45:05SPEAKER- The pinnacle for me of Sidewinder
45:06SPEAKERand the best thing that they ever did
45:09SPEAKERwas the Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro,
45:13SPEAKERwhich was a, it was a joystick
45:15SPEAKERthat had motors on the X and Y axes.
45:18SPEAKERAnd it did stuff like slipping and sliding.
45:22SPEAKERAnd if you built a game
45:24SPEAKERthat used the force feedback API as well,
45:27SPEAKERit felt like nothing you'd had in a game before.
45:30SPEAKERLike you actually, like you could feel things
45:33SPEAKERlike the wings losing grip on the air
45:37SPEAKERwhen you were stalling in a plane and stuff like that.
45:38SPEAKERIt was really, really cool and really expensive.
45:41SPEAKERAnd they probably sold like 50 of them would be my guess.
45:44SPEAKER- Sure, fair.
45:45SPEAKER- Rip.
45:46SPEAKER- Yeah.
45:47SPEAKERMicrosoft had pretty good hardware for some time though,
45:50SPEAKERlike between their mice and keyboards.
45:52SPEAKERAnd of course they still do keyboards and stuff.
45:54SPEAKER- They've kind of always done,
45:55SPEAKERlike the hardware has always been pretty good I think, yeah.
45:59SPEAKERSidewinder ran from 1995 to 2014.
46:05SPEAKER- Yeah, that's a pretty good run.
46:06SPEAKER- They had headsets and everything for awhile,
46:08SPEAKERlike joysticks, wheels, all sorts of stuff.
46:12SPEAKER- I'm surprised the Intel analysis
46:13SPEAKERis not on this list actually,
46:14SPEAKERbut I guess they still technically sell products
46:17SPEAKERunder that name, right?
46:18SPEAKER- I don't think they sell, do they sell mice?
46:20SPEAKERI don't think they sell mice anymore.
46:21SPEAKER- I thought they did.
46:22SPEAKERI thought they brought it back.
46:23SPEAKERYes.
46:24SPEAKER- They brought the Intel mouse back at one point.
46:25SPEAKEROh, they sell like portable mouse mice.
46:27SPEAKERLike why, like, yeah, okay.
46:29SPEAKERI guess they do sell them.
46:30SPEAKER- The Intel mouse classic is still up for sale
46:33SPEAKERon microsoft.com, but it says out of stock.
46:35SPEAKERSo maybe that's an old listing
46:36SPEAKERand they don't make it anymore.
46:38SPEAKER- They sell a Microsoft Pro Intel mouse.
46:40SPEAKERWhen I click on the page, I get an error.
46:44SPEAKER- Under the shop other products unit at the bottom,
46:46SPEAKERevery single other mouse on here
46:47SPEAKERis also listed as out of stock.
46:49SPEAKERSo maybe they stopped making mice.
46:50SPEAKER- I think they stopped making mice a few years ago.
46:52SPEAKER- I reviewed this arc mouse that's on here.
46:55SPEAKERThat thing was maybe the most knightedly awful mouse
46:58SPEAKERI've ever used in my life, including the bad apple
47:00SPEAKERone they have to plug in from the bottom.
47:01SPEAKER- Yeah, that's really saying something
47:03SPEAKER'cause there were some bad mice out there.
47:04SPEAKER- Yeah, I miss, they made good, they made good, good mice.
47:09SPEAKER- Yeah, can we talk about Mixer briefly?
47:13SPEAKER- Yeah.
47:13SPEAKER- I remember Mixer.
47:14SPEAKER- Yeah, Mixer was a cool, weird thing.
47:16SPEAKER- Did you forget, as I had,
47:19SPEAKERthat it was originally called Beam?
47:21SPEAKER- Yeah, they bought it, right?
47:22SPEAKERIt was an acquisition.
47:23SPEAKER- I think it was, wasn't it Beam.pro
47:25SPEAKERwas their original URL, their domain?
47:27SPEAKER- Beam, I thought it was Beam.ng.
47:29SPEAKER- I thought it was, no, that's a game,
47:31SPEAKERthat's a video game.
47:31SPEAKER- Oh, that is a video game.
47:32SPEAKEROkay, yeah, Beam.pro is it, yeah.
47:35SPEAKER- Yeah.
47:38SPEAKER- Their whole claim to fame was like low latency, right?
47:40SPEAKER- Yes.
47:41SPEAKER- So that the streamers could interact directly with chat
47:42SPEAKERand be like 200 milliseconds behind.
47:45SPEAKER- It was a Twitch competitor, just we should say,
47:46SPEAKERit was literally just another streaming service like Twitch.
47:49SPEAKERThey renamed, I didn't realize they renamed it to Mixer
47:52SPEAKERdue to like global copyright issues.
47:54SPEAKERI thought that that was them rebranding
47:57SPEAKERfor some strategic marketing initiative,
47:59SPEAKERbut apparently they had to.
48:00SPEAKER- It got trenched.
48:01SPEAKER- But yes, Beam/Mixer had,
48:04SPEAKERthey came up with their own custom streaming protocol
48:06SPEAKERcalled the FTL protocol.
48:08SPEAKER- So this is the one time,
48:09SPEAKERyeah, this is the one time that them growing their own thing
48:12SPEAKERwas actually better than what everybody else was doing.
48:14SPEAKER- Like Mixer had a fantastic technology.
48:17SPEAKERLike the FTL protocol, like we messed around with it.
48:20SPEAKERIt worked, like it was very low latency
48:21SPEAKERfrom you sending video to the service
48:24SPEAKERto people on the other end watching it.
48:26SPEAKERLike that absolutely worked.
48:28SPEAKER- At a time when nobody else was doing that too.
48:30SPEAKER- And they're still not, like still to this day,
48:32SPEAKERthey are still using RTMP for everything,
48:34SPEAKERwhich is ancient at this point.
48:36SPEAKERLike the progress needs to happen there
48:39SPEAKERand Mixer actually was trying to push that forward.
48:41SPEAKERThis is more anecdotal just from me using it.
48:43SPEAKERI can't say there was something going on
48:44SPEAKERunder the hood here,
48:45SPEAKERbut I always felt that like their video quality
48:47SPEAKERwas also cleaner.
48:48SPEAKER- I thought they let you use higher bit rates
48:50SPEAKERthan Twitch does.
48:51SPEAKER- That might've been what it was actually.
48:53SPEAKER- The thing about Mixer,
48:56SPEAKERthey did weird audience interaction stuff
48:58SPEAKERbefore Switch did too.
49:00SPEAKERLike you could do overlays and stuff
49:02SPEAKERthat ran through the service
49:04SPEAKERthat were interesting and weird.
49:06SPEAKERLike, I don't know if they were good.
49:07SPEAKERI kind of always got the feeling with Mixer
49:09SPEAKERthat Microsoft thought they were buying YouTube,
49:11SPEAKERbut got Twitch.
49:12SPEAKER- Sure, could see that.
49:14SPEAKERThey were like, "Hey man, we really wanted you.
49:16SPEAKERCan you make this into YouTube?
49:17SPEAKERYou should make, you know what would be good to have
49:19SPEAKERis YouTube."
49:20SPEAKERAnd then they just like it,
49:22SPEAKERbut it was weirdly not integrated as well with the Xboxes
49:26SPEAKERas I would have wanted.
49:28SPEAKER- Yeah, they were getting there.
49:29SPEAKERI mean, I think if the platform itself had caught on
49:31SPEAKERthat integration would have gotten a lot better,
49:32SPEAKERbut it just, Mixer was an early casualty of the pandemic.
49:35SPEAKERSo it did not last for very long,
49:38SPEAKERbut it was good tech.
49:40SPEAKERLike I was actually sad to see it go away.
49:42SPEAKERAnd they had some,
49:43SPEAKERthey had some really ridiculous stuff built into the page.
49:45SPEAKERLike you could trigger like confetti and fireworks
49:47SPEAKERand stuff to go off all over, all over the place.
49:50SPEAKER- It was, it was stupid, very good, stupid.
49:53SPEAKER- It was the good kind of done.
49:57SPEAKER- Speaking of streaming and web stuff and video stuff,
50:00SPEAKERchannel nine is something that I think probably
50:01SPEAKERa lot of people don't know about.
50:03SPEAKER- I never heard of it.
50:04SPEAKERI want to hear about this actually.
50:05SPEAKER- So channel nine, to me,
50:08SPEAKERchannel nine was the place that Microsoft employees
50:11SPEAKERand like people who were doing the actual work
50:13SPEAKERand as well as like project managers and stuff like that,
50:15SPEAKERproduct managers could, could communicate with users.
50:20SPEAKERSo they would do videos and blogs.
50:23SPEAKERIt's, I think it's where Major Nelson,
50:25SPEAKERlike I remember reading early Major Nelson stuff there.
50:28SPEAKERLike they were talking directly to users
50:29SPEAKERand directly to developers and it wasn't really filtered
50:34SPEAKERthrough the normal Microsoft PR apparatus.
50:36SPEAKER- That's so cool.
50:37SPEAKER- So you'd hear about like, they'd talk about APIs
50:40SPEAKERand you'd learn about like new APIs that were coming
50:41SPEAKERwith new versions of Windows and stuff like that.
50:43SPEAKERAnd it was a really phenomenal resource
50:46SPEAKERthat seemed like it maybe went by the wayside
50:49SPEAKERthrough one of the, the kind of like,
50:53SPEAKERit fell out of vogue internally is what I would see.
50:55SPEAKERLike you stopped seeing people using it as much.
50:57SPEAKERI think it was just the thing that they had
50:58SPEAKERthat was available.
50:59SPEAKERAnd just to be clear, I'm not under the impression
51:01SPEAKERthat they weren't filtering this through like,
51:03SPEAKERthrough the normal marketing apparatus.
51:05SPEAKER- Oh yeah.
51:06SPEAKER- But it, but it felt like they weren't in a way that like
51:08SPEAKERa lot of corporate communication around that kind of stuff
51:10SPEAKERdoes not feel, and like somebody like Apple
51:12SPEAKERwould never ever do.
51:14SPEAKER- It started in 2004.
51:15SPEAKERSo it predates YouTube by just a little bit.
51:17SPEAKERSo obviously, obviously once like generalized sites
51:20SPEAKERfor sharing things like video got popular,
51:22SPEAKERthere's maybe less of a need for this,
51:24SPEAKERbut it was part of MSDN.
51:25SPEAKERI did not realize until I looked at the URL,
51:27SPEAKERit was channel9.msdn.com.
51:30SPEAKER- Oh yeah.
51:31SPEAKER- So I guess it was under that umbrella.
51:33SPEAKER- I wonder if they moved it to YouTube.
51:34SPEAKERLike that's the, that's the, it looks like, no.
51:40SPEAKERIt was, it was a really, like when you were learning
51:42SPEAKERabout how to do, when I was doing OS coverage,
51:45SPEAKERit was an incredibly useful thing.
51:46SPEAKERIt's just the Microsoft developer channel now on YouTube.
51:49SPEAKER- Okay.
51:50SPEAKERWell, that's still a thing.
51:51SPEAKER- And it's the same, same kind of stuff.
51:52SPEAKERLet's like build, it looks like it's like a lot
51:54SPEAKERof build conference sessions and stuff like that now.
51:57SPEAKER- The, the Wayback Machine has at least a version
52:00SPEAKERof the website.
52:00SPEAKERI don't know how much of the content is actually preserved.
52:05SPEAKERProbably not that much,
52:07SPEAKERbut you can, but you can at least go look at what it is.
52:09SPEAKER- Yeah, it was, it was like having them do,
52:13SPEAKERlike the thing that was interesting about it
52:14SPEAKERwas really just the direct to user
52:17SPEAKERand developer communication.
52:18SPEAKERIt was, it was a cool thing.
52:19SPEAKER- Yeah, that's, that's a cool and it's kind of very
52:22SPEAKERon Microsoft like thing from that era.
52:24SPEAKER- Honestly, it was kind of the beginning.
52:26SPEAKERIt was the beginning of the more open, less
52:28SPEAKERwe're going to destroy you Microsoft, right?
52:30SPEAKER- Sure.
52:31SPEAKER- Like the, hey, there's a through line from,
52:34SPEAKERhey, we're going to post stuff on channel nine
52:36SPEAKERand not just roll it out and build conference
52:38SPEAKERand the windows HTC, H hardware,
52:42SPEAKERHEC, WinHack and those places to,
52:48SPEAKERhey, we're going to put power toys on GitHub
52:50SPEAKERand people can just submit code changes to them
52:52SPEAKERif they want.
52:53SPEAKER- Yeah, I, I, I vastly prefer the current iteration
52:57SPEAKERof Microsoft.
52:58SPEAKER- Yeah, they're, they're like a,
52:59SPEAKERthey're like a kind of racist grandpa
53:03SPEAKERwho's mellowed in old age.
53:04SPEAKER- Yikes.
53:05SPEAKERYeah, I, I, I went, I went and posted a suggestion
53:08SPEAKERon the windows terminal GitHub issues and sure enough,
53:11SPEAKERI mean, it wasn't just me, but sure enough,
53:14SPEAKERthey made that change six months later.
53:19SPEAKERI'm going to mention one on here that is a little wistful
53:22SPEAKERto think about, which is Microsoft Encarta.
53:26SPEAKER- Oh, the encyclopedia on CD.
53:29SPEAKER- Yes, the CD, well, not, not the first CD-ROM encyclopedia,
53:32SPEAKERbut probably the most popular one would you say,
53:35SPEAKERor like the most full featured one?
53:37SPEAKER- It's hard to say, because those,
53:38SPEAKERthat was one of those things that like,
53:39SPEAKERif you bought a CD-ROM drive in the late nineties,
53:42SPEAKERyou just got like two encyclopedias jammed in the box.
53:45SPEAKER- Yes, you sure did.
53:46SPEAKERSo I was reading the Wikipedia page for Encarta
53:48SPEAKERand it reminded me, I'll just read here 100 background
53:51SPEAKERafter the successes of Compton's multimedia encyclopedia
53:54SPEAKERand the new Grolier multimedia encyclopedia,
53:56SPEAKERwe 100% got a copy of Compton's multimedia encyclopedia.
54:00SPEAKER- I got a Grolier with a sound blaster one time, yeah.
54:04SPEAKER- That actually, that led to me clicking through
54:06SPEAKERto the Compton's encyclopedia page,
54:10SPEAKERwhere I found that it is now known as Compton's by Britannica
54:14SPEAKERso little encyclopedia is just getting swallowed up
54:17SPEAKERby bigger encyclopedias.
54:18SPEAKERJust like, don't, don't mess with big encyclopedia, okay.
54:22SPEAKER- We had an encyclopedia disc that was like a freebie
54:25SPEAKERthat you got the disc free at Sam's or Costco or something,
54:29SPEAKERand you could call a phone number
54:31SPEAKERand give them your credit card
54:32SPEAKERand they'd unlock it with a code for you.
54:33SPEAKERSo you could then use the information on the CD-ROM.
54:37SPEAKER- Interesting.
54:38SPEAKER- I have to imagine it was all the exact same codes.
54:41SPEAKERIs that the way CD-ROMs work?
54:43SPEAKERBut yeah, it was, we didn't ever call.
54:46SPEAKERI just, I just read the first paragraph of the entries
54:48SPEAKERusually and then moved on.
54:49SPEAKER- That was enough, that was enough to write your book report.
54:51SPEAKER- That was all I needed.
54:53SPEAKER- I guess I just, I remember Encarta like over time
54:56SPEAKERbeing the most like, I don't know,
54:58SPEAKERthe best production values maybe,
54:59SPEAKERthe best type of like video quality.
55:01SPEAKER- Yeah, and I think they're like,
55:03SPEAKERtheir layout was less like Windows 3.1 app
55:06SPEAKERand more like Windows 95 app.
55:07SPEAKERLike they had people who are actually pretty good
55:09SPEAKERat visual design working on that thing.
55:11SPEAKER- Yes, but then of course Wikipedia basically destroyed them.
55:15SPEAKER- So by the time that stuff came out, I was in college
55:18SPEAKERand if I had cited Encarta in a college paper,
55:21SPEAKERI would have been kicked out of school probably.
55:22SPEAKER- Really?
55:23SPEAKER- Yeah.
55:24SPEAKER- Really, that was not considered
55:25SPEAKERlike an authoritative source?
55:27SPEAKER- No, it wasn't even that.
55:28SPEAKERIt was that if you cited the encyclopedia
55:30SPEAKERinstead of an actual reference,
55:31SPEAKERyou would have been in trouble probably, yeah.
55:33SPEAKER- Any encyclopedia, interesting.
55:34SPEAKER- Yeah, they were, in the sciences at least,
55:37SPEAKERthey were like site papers and original sources,
55:40SPEAKERnot encyclopedias.
55:43SPEAKER- Yeah, I believe that.
55:45SPEAKER- Yeah, but also I wouldn't have known
55:49SPEAKERhow to write the citation for Encarta either
55:50SPEAKERif I was trying to, so.
55:51SPEAKER- Fair, I miss that stuff, but it's just 'cause I'm old.
55:55SPEAKERI miss CD-ROM encyclopedias.
55:57SPEAKER- Look, if you ever wanna do a CD-ROM encyclopedia stream,
56:00SPEAKERI will get on Twitch with you
56:01SPEAKERand we can get you some CD-ROM encyclopedias 'cause--
56:03SPEAKER- God, that's a good idea.
56:05SPEAKER- They're on, I'm sure they're on archive.org.
56:07SPEAKER- Oh yes, absolutely, and I really wanna go find
56:09SPEAKERCompton's Multimedia Encyclopedia now.
56:12SPEAKER- Yeah, we can get the girl.
56:14SPEAKERWe can rate your interactive multimedia encyclopedia
56:17SPEAKERfrom the late '90s.
56:18SPEAKER- Yeah, man, my YouTube recommendations
56:20SPEAKERhave really shifted into that kind of old
56:22SPEAKERretro tech YouTube area.
56:24SPEAKER- Oh no.
56:26SPEAKER- And my God, man, there are so many videos out there
56:29SPEAKERof like hey, I'm gonna install Nextstep and run through it.
56:32SPEAKERLike every expensive unattainable computing thing
56:35SPEAKERI ever fetishized in my life,
56:37SPEAKERI can just go watch a video of somebody messing with it now.
56:39SPEAKER- You should watch the guy that unboxes
56:41SPEAKERthat Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro.
56:42SPEAKERI posted the YouTube link in the show notes.
56:47SPEAKERIt's pretty good.
56:48SPEAKER- Those are fun.
56:48SPEAKERUnboxings of old things are pretty fun.
56:51SPEAKER- He plugs it in, he gets it working,
56:52SPEAKERthis is a joystick port thing, and it's, yeah.
56:57SPEAKER- I'll mention just real fast before we go,
56:58SPEAKERCortana is finally slated for execution permanently
57:01SPEAKERin like, I think they said late 2023.
57:04SPEAKER- I haven't finished the last Halo, man, no spoilers.
57:08SPEAKER- I got nothing for you.
57:12SPEAKERI think they are only saying late 2023,
57:15SPEAKERI don't think there's a date yet,
57:17SPEAKERbut Cortana is finally about to end.
57:20SPEAKER- Although this is exciting for me.
57:22SPEAKER- Well, yes and no,
57:23SPEAKERbut actually the Cortana standalone app
57:27SPEAKERin Microsoft Windows will end in late 2023
57:29SPEAKERand will be replaced by Microsoft Co-Pilot
57:31SPEAKERand Bing Chat AI, so.
57:35SPEAKER- So, okay, so my relationship with Cortana
57:38SPEAKERis that basically when I install Windows on a new computer
57:41SPEAKERor get a new computer, I open up the registry editor
57:44SPEAKERand I disable Cortana with the registry level,
57:47SPEAKERand then I never think about Cortana again.
57:49SPEAKER- Same, same.
57:52SPEAKER- I'm not excited about having to do that for the AI.
57:54SPEAKERThis is how the machines take control, Brad.
57:58SPEAKEROn the plus side, if you want to get some pictures
58:00SPEAKERof SpongeBob doing 9/11,
58:02SPEAKERbeing AI is great for that, apparently.
58:04SPEAKER- Yep, that's true, I've seen it.
58:07SPEAKER- Photo real, Mickey Mouse apparently was involved too,
58:10SPEAKERI don't know.
58:11SPEAKER- I'm not gonna use that for the show or this week.
58:13SPEAKER- No, please do not.
58:15SPEAKERPlease do not.
58:15SPEAKER- The same thing is a maybe.
58:17SPEAKER- No, don't do the title either.
58:20SPEAKER- Yeah, so there's Cortana.
58:22SPEAKER- Yeah, this is, again, this is killed by Microsoft.info.
58:25SPEAKERThere's a ton of fun stuff on here, I mean.
58:27SPEAKER- Fun.
58:28SPEAKER- Yes, we could have talked about,
58:30SPEAKERSilverlight would have been fun to talk through,
58:31SPEAKERbut that's definitely not fun.
58:34SPEAKERIt's just them trying to replace Flash
58:36SPEAKERwith their own technology.
58:37SPEAKER- Well, and ActiveX too,
58:39SPEAKER'cause they had an ActiveX problem
58:41SPEAKERand Silverlight solved that too.
58:42SPEAKER- I forgot about ActiveX, man.
58:44SPEAKER- Yeah, ActiveX was the cause of and solution
58:46SPEAKERto all of their problems for a long time.
58:49SPEAKER- You know, there's fun stuff on here like Microsoft Bob.
58:53SPEAKER- I never used Bob.
58:54SPEAKER- I didn't either, but I was infamous.
58:56SPEAKERI think it has to be the shortest lived thing on this list
59:02SPEAKERthat I have been able to find.
59:03SPEAKERAnd the little blurb is tragic sound
59:06SPEAKERwhen you read it out loud.
59:08SPEAKERMicrosoft Bob, killed almost 28 years ago.
59:10SPEAKERMicrosoft Bob was a user-friendly interface
59:12SPEAKERfor the Windows 3.1, 95 and NT operating systems.
59:16SPEAKERIt was 10 months old.
59:17SPEAKER- God, I didn't know it worked on 95 and NT,
59:19SPEAKERbut I thought it was a Windows 3.1 thing.
59:22SPEAKER- Around the 95 release is when I remember
59:24SPEAKERthe biggest marketing push around it.
59:27SPEAKER- I remembered it being before that as a,
59:29SPEAKERlike, "Hey, we're gonna make Windows friendly for the home."
59:31SPEAKER- Oh, actually, no, it came out in March '95.
59:34SPEAKERSo like five, four, five, six months before 95 came out.
59:38SPEAKER- Yeah, Windows '95 was August of '95.
59:40SPEAKER- Yeah, it was, if people all know,
59:43SPEAKERit was the thing that replaced your Windows desktop
59:45SPEAKERwith like a graphical, like, picture of a room
59:47SPEAKERwith a fireplace in it and a calendar on the wall
59:50SPEAKERand a dog that ran around talking to you.
59:53SPEAKER- There was a clock that updated live, I believe.
59:55SPEAKER- And the logo was that goofy ass-looking smiley face
59:59SPEAKERwith big thick, black rimmed, like thick rimmed glasses.
1:00:02SPEAKER- It was a pretty good smiley face, I think.
1:00:04SPEAKERI'm gonna say.
1:00:05SPEAKER- Bob was infamous.
1:00:05SPEAKERI'm not entirely sure why.
1:00:07SPEAKERI think that was just,
1:00:10SPEAKERyou know, the same types of people who hated Apple,
1:00:14SPEAKERwho hated the Mac at that time hated Bob.
1:00:17SPEAKERThey saw it as an attempt to make computers too friendly.
1:00:20SPEAKER- The one thing that hasn't changed
1:00:22SPEAKERthe entire time I've been doing this
1:00:23SPEAKERis that people love to gatekeep things
1:00:25SPEAKERthat they're good at and other people might not be.
1:00:27SPEAKERSo, you know, whether it's Counter-Strike
1:00:30SPEAKERor how to use Windows 3.1,
1:00:33SPEAKERwe still will come down hard on the things
1:00:36SPEAKERthat make it easier for a broader audience.
1:00:39SPEAKER- Yes, now that's not to say Microsoft Bob was good.
1:00:42SPEAKER- No, I don't, I actually, I would love,
1:00:45SPEAKERI kind of wanna fire up a Windows 3.1 image
1:00:47SPEAKERand try out Bob now, 'cause I don't have any,
1:00:51SPEAKERlike I used the Plus Packs and stuff like that,
1:00:54SPEAKERjust 'cause in the late '90s, you would often buy Windows
1:00:58SPEAKERand you'd get a coupon that was like,
1:00:59SPEAKER"Hey, for 10 bucks more, you can get the Plus Pack,"
1:01:01SPEAKERor whatever, and the Plus Pack had that sick pinball game
1:01:04SPEAKERand I don't know, maybe some other stuff,
1:01:08SPEAKERusually nothing that was useful,
1:01:10SPEAKERbut it felt like you didn't have all of Windows
1:01:12SPEAKERif you didn't have the Plus Pack.
1:01:14SPEAKER- And all those cool extra wallpapers.
1:01:16SPEAKER- You could get a space kit at pinball,
1:01:18SPEAKERyou got drive space, which would compress your hard drive
1:01:20SPEAKERto make the stuff on your hard drive to make it bigger.
1:01:25SPEAKERYou got the Internet Jump Start Kit,
1:01:27SPEAKERwhich had Internet Explorer 1.0,
1:01:30SPEAKERand I think you had Task Scheduler,
1:01:33SPEAKERthat was the first time Task Scheduler showed up in Windows,
1:01:35SPEAKERbut it was called System Agent, it was, I don't know,
1:01:38SPEAKERit was weird.
1:01:40SPEAKER- Yeah, I remember Plus.
1:01:43SPEAKER- Yeah, it also had another video on it,
1:01:44SPEAKERit was like the Buddy Holly video
1:01:46SPEAKERthat was on the Windows 95 CD.
1:01:48SPEAKER- Yes, I watched that Edie Brickell video so many times.
1:01:51SPEAKER- Yep, yep, but yeah, it was,
1:01:55SPEAKERthey kept doing pluses until, wow, they still do Plus?
1:01:59SPEAKERNo, 2003 was the last one, XP.
1:02:02SPEAKER- Plus died, but Powertoys came back,
1:02:04SPEAKERwhich was the right choice.
1:02:05SPEAKERIf you're gonna bring back one of the little,
1:02:07SPEAKERthe weird little under the radar Windows add-ons
1:02:09SPEAKERfrom that time, Powertoys was the one to do.
1:02:11SPEAKER- The worst thing about the Plus internal code name
1:02:14SPEAKERprior to the Windows 95 launch
1:02:15SPEAKERwas that its code name was Frosting.
1:02:18SPEAKERSo I guess Windows 95 was the cake.
1:02:21SPEAKER- Great, great.
1:02:22SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't like this.
1:02:25SPEAKERShout out to Frontpage,
1:02:27SPEAKERI wouldn't be here for work for Frontpage.
1:02:28SPEAKER- Oh, huh, is that desktop publishing stuff?
1:02:31SPEAKER- Frontpage was a WYSIWYG web editor,
1:02:35SPEAKERHTML editor that lived on top of internet,
1:02:37SPEAKERIIS, their internet server,
1:02:40SPEAKERwhich probably should also be on this
1:02:41SPEAKER'cause I don't think they make that anymore either.
1:02:45SPEAKERBut we used Frontpage to Ars Technica
1:02:47SPEAKERwhen I started Ars Technica in 1998.
1:02:50SPEAKERAnd it didn't have,
1:02:51SPEAKER'cause CMSs for websites were not really a thing
1:02:54SPEAKERthat anybody that didn't have a whole boatload
1:02:56SPEAKERof money already had.
1:02:58SPEAKERSo we had to literally get on ICQ
1:03:03SPEAKERand say, hey, I'm opening the website Frontpage
1:03:06SPEAKERto make changes
1:03:07SPEAKERbecause if somebody else opened it afterwards,
1:03:09SPEAKERwhoever saved last overwrote everybody else's changes.
1:03:13SPEAKERSo if you were doing the news at night,
1:03:15SPEAKERyou would write down three news stories,
1:03:16SPEAKERtake two hours, and then you'd save it,
1:03:18SPEAKERand then somebody else would save a typo
1:03:20SPEAKERthat they fixed earlier on the page,
1:03:22SPEAKERand everything you had written there would be gone.
1:03:25SPEAKERIt was a great system.
1:03:26SPEAKER- Fun.
1:03:27SPEAKER- It died in, I think, 2006.
1:03:29SPEAKER- Yeah, IIS still exists, apparently.
1:03:32SPEAKER- Wow.
1:03:33SPEAKERHonestly, I continue to be kind of surprised
1:03:35SPEAKERthat Windows Server still exists,
1:03:36SPEAKERbut I actually know people who use Windows Server for stuff.
1:03:40SPEAKERThere's a lot of valid use cases, it turns out.
1:03:43SPEAKER- Yes. - Anyway.
1:03:43SPEAKER- Yes, real quick, before we run out of time,
1:03:47SPEAKERI'll just take the opportunity to shout out 3D Movie Maker
1:03:50SPEAKERand the FOSS Pod episode we did with Twitter's Phoon.
1:03:53SPEAKER- Yeah, it was great. - What did you mean, 10?
1:03:55SPEAKER- Also, 10's Phoon.
1:03:58SPEAKERBrad made a face when I said that.
1:04:00SPEAKERIt was a really fun chat with Phoon
1:04:02SPEAKERabout the process of resuscitating Windows Movie Maker
1:04:07SPEAKERand all the work that they put into that.
1:04:10SPEAKERWhat's Tay?
1:04:11SPEAKERTay is on this list, I don't know what Tay is.
1:04:13SPEAKER- Oh, God, you don't remember Tay?
1:04:15SPEAKER- No. - Tay was the Twitter-based
1:04:16SPEAKERchat bot that they launched and took down
1:04:18SPEAKERin less than 24 hours because it turned into a Nazi.
1:04:21SPEAKER- Yeah, the internet made it racist.
1:04:24SPEAKER- Perhaps an early cautionary tale with,
1:04:27SPEAKERwas that machine learning, or was that, I mean, it was 2016.
1:04:29SPEAKER- It was machine learning, yeah, nobody paid attention.
1:04:32SPEAKERThat was, oh, I remember making headlines.
1:04:34SPEAKERIt's just, you know, they took it down so fast.
1:04:35SPEAKERIt wasn't around long, but it certainly,
1:04:38SPEAKERwaking up the next morning to all the tech blog headlines
1:04:42SPEAKERof Microsoft launched a Nazi bot yesterday.
1:04:46SPEAKER- Well, they didn't launch it as a Nazi,
1:04:47SPEAKERbut it came from Nazi when exposed to people, so.
1:04:50SPEAKER- Yes, they made the mistake of letting it learn
1:04:52SPEAKERfrom anything and everything that was fed into it.
1:04:54SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, there was a Blue Sky thread
1:04:57SPEAKERthe other day about Tay.
1:04:58SPEAKERI didn't remember that it was called Tay,
1:04:59SPEAKERbut they were like, hey, did nobody remember
1:05:02SPEAKERwhen the SpongeBob doing 9/11 pictures
1:05:05SPEAKERstarted getting posted?
1:05:06SPEAKEREverybody's like, yo, did nobody remember Tay?
1:05:08SPEAKERAnd it turns out nobody remembers Tay, so anyway.
1:05:11SPEAKERThere we go, that's the stuff Microsoft's killed.
1:05:14SPEAKERI would say that's a highlight.
1:05:16SPEAKERThere's a lot more, it turns out.
1:05:17SPEAKER- Yes, killed by microsoft.info.
1:05:19SPEAKERIf you wanna go look up some more of this stuff,
1:05:20SPEAKERthere's a ton on here.
1:05:21SPEAKERThere's a lot of games stuff on here.
1:05:24SPEAKERAnd games storefronts. - Games for Windows
1:05:25SPEAKERis on there, like, we talked about Games for Windows.
1:05:28SPEAKER- Remember when you could play Halo or no, Shadowrun.
1:05:34SPEAKERShadowrun, Shadowgate. - Yeah, Shadowrun.
1:05:35SPEAKER- Versus-- - Shadowrun
1:05:37SPEAKERagainst 360 players.
1:05:39SPEAKER- Yeah, you could play on the PC
1:05:40SPEAKERversus people with a controller.
1:05:42SPEAKER- It was crazy. - And I'm gonna tell you,
1:05:43SPEAKERthe controller people did not have a good time
1:05:45SPEAKERwhen a mouse person showed up.
1:05:46SPEAKER- Yeah, I believe it.
1:05:47SPEAKER- People just quit.
1:05:49SPEAKER- That's a tale as old as time.
1:05:50SPEAKER- Well, I think these days it works out.
1:05:52SPEAKERBut like, the technology's finally there.
1:05:54SPEAKER- Yes, it's better, it's better.
1:05:56SPEAKER- They put Kakuto Chojin on here, it's like, what?
1:05:59SPEAKER- What?
1:06:00SPEAKERI don't even know what that is.
1:06:01SPEAKER- It's a fighting game.
1:06:01SPEAKER- Oh.
1:06:02SPEAKER- It's kind of a somewhat infamous fighting game
1:06:04SPEAKERfor the original Xbox.
1:06:05SPEAKERAnyway, and this, you know, before we go to this thing,
1:06:08SPEAKERthis thing also lists, that's what the guillotines are,
1:06:10SPEAKERthings that are not shut down yet, but will be.
1:06:12SPEAKER- Yeah, on the way.
1:06:14SPEAKER- And the 360 Marketplace, the Xbox Live Marketplace
1:06:16SPEAKERis on here because that's going offline next year.
1:06:19SPEAKER- Oh wow, end of life.
1:06:21SPEAKER- You will not be able to purchase anything else
1:06:23SPEAKERfor the 360 online after that date.
1:06:26SPEAKER- What am I missing?
1:06:28SPEAKERWhat am I gonna want?
1:06:29SPEAKERWhen is this gonna go away?
1:06:30SPEAKERAnd I'm gonna be like, oh man, I wish I had that.
1:06:32SPEAKER- I assume a definitive list is gonna come out
1:06:34SPEAKERof here's all the stuff going away
1:06:37SPEAKERand that you should probably own type stuff.
1:06:40SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:06:40SPEAKER- And that's gonna include DLC
1:06:41SPEAKERfor a lot of like retail 360 games as well.
1:06:44SPEAKER- Yeah, it's funny 'cause there's a lot of,
1:06:46SPEAKERlike the Games from Windows stuff going away
1:06:48SPEAKERactually made like Fallout 3 DLC shockingly hard to play
1:06:52SPEAKERand Batman Arkham Asylum and there's a bunch of games
1:06:55SPEAKERfrom that era that are, they're not lost
1:06:58SPEAKER'cause people, the pirates found a way, I guess,
1:07:01SPEAKERand they got re-released.
1:07:03SPEAKER- Viva Kenyatta for PC is all wrapped up
1:07:05SPEAKERin that, unfortunately.
1:07:07SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:07:08SPEAKER- Yeah, so anyway.
1:07:11SPEAKER- Well, circle of life, Brad.
1:07:12SPEAKER- Yep.
1:07:14SPEAKER- This is the part of the show where we thank our patrons.
1:07:16SPEAKER- Thank you, patrons.
1:07:17SPEAKER- Thank you, patrons.
1:07:18SPEAKERAs always, Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod
1:07:19SPEAKERis a 100% listener-supported show.
1:07:22SPEAKERSo if you would like to support the show
1:07:23SPEAKERand help us keep the death watch going, I guess.
1:07:28SPEAKER- Yeah, there's also one of these for Apple, actually.
1:07:30SPEAKER- Ooh.
1:07:31SPEAKER- Just to, if people like these episodes,
1:07:33SPEAKERthere's an Apple one out there potentially waiting to happen.
1:07:36SPEAKER- There you go.
1:07:37SPEAKERBut you can go to patreon.com/techpod.
1:07:40SPEAKERAgain, it's patreon.com/techpod
1:07:42SPEAKERwhere you can join the fabulous Tech Pod Discord
1:07:44SPEAKERand get access to the Patreon exclusive episode.
1:07:47SPEAKERLast month, we talked about, we had an extensive conversation
1:07:52SPEAKERabout the first 200 episodes of the show
1:07:54SPEAKERand what we think the next 200 episodes
1:07:57SPEAKERare gonna look like.
1:07:57SPEAKERSo when we're making predictions,
1:07:59SPEAKERyou can mock us in four years, see how that went.
1:08:04SPEAKERYou also get access to the Discord,
1:08:06SPEAKERwhich is a phenomenal resource full of wonderful people.
1:08:09SPEAKERI learn something every day I'm in the Discord.
1:08:11SPEAKERI say this every week, but it is truly,
1:08:14SPEAKERwhether it's somebody sharing recipes
1:08:16SPEAKERfor things that they, like their family classics
1:08:20SPEAKERor people talking about how they're wiring their network
1:08:24SPEAKERin their new houses, their building and stuff like that.
1:08:26SPEAKERI learn something new every week and it's fabulous.
1:08:29SPEAKER- Yeah, we wouldn't keep saying it if we didn't mean it.
1:08:31SPEAKER- No, so thank you to all of our patrons,
1:08:33SPEAKERbut a very special thank you to our executive producer
1:08:35SPEAKERto your patrons, including Nick Johnston,
1:08:37SPEAKERPaddle Greek Games, makers of Fractured Veil,
1:08:40SPEAKERAndrew Slosky, Jordan Lippett, Bunny Fiend.
1:08:43SPEAKERWedge says join the Tech Pod Holiday Gift Swap
1:08:46SPEAKERthat's on the Discord.
1:08:47SPEAKERIf you're in there, there's a channel for it.
1:08:49SPEAKERJoel Krauska, Twinkle Twinkie, David Allen, James Kamik,
1:08:51SPEAKERand Pantheon, makers of the HS3 High Speed 3D printer.
1:08:55SPEAKERThank you all so much.
1:08:56SPEAKERThanks to everybody for supporting the show.
1:08:58SPEAKERAnd if you don't want to support the Patreon,
1:09:00SPEAKERtell your friends right over at iTunes to review something.
1:09:01SPEAKEROf course, that all helps too, we really appreciate it.
1:09:03SPEAKER- Spread the word, get up on your rooftop and yell.
1:09:06SPEAKER- Take your old TV, hang out of the window and say,
1:09:09SPEAKER"Hey, why not listen to the Tech Pod with Brad and Will?"
1:09:12SPEAKERIt's a perfect use for an old TV.
1:09:14SPEAKER- It's true.
1:09:15SPEAKERYou could definitely deduct that from your taxes, Brad.
1:09:18SPEAKER- Probably.
1:09:19SPEAKER- We will be back next week with another episode.
1:09:21SPEAKERThanks for listening, everybody.
1:09:22SPEAKERHave a good week.
1:09:23SPEAKER- Bye.
1:09:23SPEAKER(upbeat music)