142: Flanders Is Dead. Long Live Neddy

00:00SPEAKER- Okay, Brad. - Yes?

00:01SPEAKER- I just had to wait two minutes for the beeps to work.

00:04SPEAKER- Wait, hang on.

00:04SPEAKERDo we need to back up and explain what the,

00:07SPEAKERis the beeps a term of art?

00:09SPEAKERIs that jargon?

00:10SPEAKERIs that something we need to explain?

00:11SPEAKER- Do you think people know what the beeps are?

00:11SPEAKER- I don't know if I'm ready to reveal

00:13SPEAKERthe secret to the world.

00:15SPEAKEREspecially, you know,

00:16SPEAKERnow that we're doing a lot of FOSPOD guests and stuff.

00:18SPEAKER- People know.

00:19SPEAKER- Our most recent guests were very excited at the tool.

00:22SPEAKER- People are always excited at the tool.

00:24SPEAKER- And it occurred to me like every time we have guests on

00:28SPEAKERand reveal this tool to them so they can use it,

00:30SPEAKERthey might go tell other people about it.

00:32SPEAKERAnd then someday the person who is hosting this for us

00:36SPEAKERmight wake up and go,

00:37SPEAKERwhy are suddenly 50,000 people hitting this tool

00:40SPEAKERall at once?

00:41SPEAKER- But you think the tool is going to go viral?

00:42SPEAKER- What if it did?

00:43SPEAKERI, you know what?

00:44SPEAKERThere are not that many podcasters in the world.

00:46SPEAKER- You say that, but I don't know that that's actually true.

00:48SPEAKERI think there are a lot of podcasters in the world.

00:51SPEAKER- Actually, that is our kind of Andy Warhol

00:54SPEAKERdigital reality, right?

00:56SPEAKERLike everybody's got 15 minutes of podcasting in them,

00:59SPEAKERwaiting to happen.

01:01SPEAKER- Do you remember how hard it was to podcast in like 2005?

01:04SPEAKER- No, it wasn't for me because we had a turnkey solution

01:07SPEAKERbecause we just used the upstairs CNET radio studio.

01:10SPEAKER- Oh God, that must have been nice.

01:12SPEAKER- That had been built out with like 200 grand worth

01:14SPEAKERof radio equipment.

01:15SPEAKERSo we were actually like this Electra Voice RE20

01:19SPEAKERthat I'm talking into.

01:20SPEAKER- Oh, you're using the same hardware.

01:22SPEAKER- We were talking into RE20s in 2006

01:24SPEAKERwhen we did the hotspots.

01:26SPEAKER- Okay, so when we started the PC Gamer Podcast

01:29SPEAKERand the Maximum PC Podcast in like 2000,

01:31SPEAKERsomewhere between 2005 and 2007,

01:33SPEAKERwe were using shitty gaming headsets

01:36SPEAKERthat were just sitting around the office

01:38SPEAKERand recording, I think, a Skype call.

01:41SPEAKER- Actually, now that you mentioned it,

01:42SPEAKERonce we left and started doing the bomb cast,

01:46SPEAKEReven then we had halfway decent mics,

01:47SPEAKERbut yes, I know what you're talking about.

01:48SPEAKERLike a little, a janky little cheap USB mixer

01:52SPEAKERplugged into a laptop and that sort of thing.

01:55SPEAKER- Well, that, and then the other side of it was

01:56SPEAKERlike you didn't want your podcast,

01:58SPEAKERunless you were making money on your podcast,

02:00SPEAKERyou didn't want your podcast to get wildly popular

02:02SPEAKER'cause it was expensive.

02:03SPEAKER- Yeah, and also nobody was making money on podcasts,

02:06SPEAKERreally, back then.

02:07SPEAKER- No, I mean, I want to say like,

02:10SPEAKERthe first time I heard about somebody making money

02:12SPEAKERon podcasts was probably cereal,

02:14SPEAKERand that was in like 2012, right?

02:16SPEAKERWhen we were at whiskey.

02:17SPEAKER- Was cereal that long ago?

02:19SPEAKER- Cereal was a long time ago now.

02:20SPEAKER- I guess you're right.

02:22SPEAKERYeah, like even dude, even the bomb cast,

02:24SPEAKERlike I don't remember ads becoming a really integral part

02:28SPEAKERof the pipeline until like 2015-ish.

02:30SPEAKER- I remember we were in the basement at whiskey.

02:33SPEAKERThere was a actual conversation about,

02:37SPEAKERhey, we maybe should break the bomb cast

02:39SPEAKERinto multiple shows because it costs too much

02:43SPEAKERto host one giant long three hour show

02:46SPEAKERthat we didn't know if people actually listened

02:48SPEAKERto the whole thing.

02:48SPEAKER- I see people cross about that moment to this day.

02:51SPEAKERI mean, it was-

02:52SPEAKER- People to this day are like,

02:54SPEAKERhey, remember when they were going to split the bomb cast up

02:56SPEAKERand hold half of it back?

02:57SPEAKER- Like we spent so much money hosting the bomb cast

03:00SPEAKERbefore there were ads, so it was so expensive.

03:02SPEAKERAnd now you just pay 15 bucks a month and they pay your,

03:05SPEAKERdoesn't matter how many people download the show.

03:07SPEAKER- Bomb cast, nothing.

03:08SPEAKERWhat about all those videos?

03:09SPEAKER- Well, okay.

03:10SPEAKER- Dude, people have no idea

03:12SPEAKERwhat giant bombs hosting bills were.

03:14SPEAKER- But I mean, the thing was when you looked

03:15SPEAKERat like what was actually costing money

03:17SPEAKERbecause the bomb cast was so much,

03:19SPEAKERlike the videos had good viewership,

03:21SPEAKERbut like the bomb cast was a lot bigger than the,

03:24SPEAKERwe spent the data costs for the bomb cast

03:26SPEAKERwere really, really big.

03:28SPEAKERAnyway, I don't remember where I was going.

03:30SPEAKEROh, I know where I was going with this.

03:31SPEAKERI automated my phone.

03:33SPEAKER- Oh.

03:34SPEAKER- Well, there's this thing called the shortcuts apps

03:36SPEAKERwas used to be called, it used to have a much better name.

03:38SPEAKERIt was automator, like automator, like M-A-T-E-R I think.

03:43SPEAKER- Automator?

03:45SPEAKER- No, E-R, mater.

03:46SPEAKER- Oh, E-R.

03:47SPEAKER- Yeah, but the shortcuts app, Apple bought them

03:50SPEAKERinstead of just knocking them off.

03:52SPEAKERAnd you can do things like turn on and off pages of apps

03:58SPEAKERbased on the time of day and the day of the week.

04:02SPEAKER- Pages of apps, meaning pages of the home screen?

04:05SPEAKER- Like home screen pages.

04:06SPEAKERLike I have a home screen page with my most used apps,

04:09SPEAKERlike Discord and my phone app and texts and stuff like that.

04:12SPEAKER- If I turn off, you mean just like it will just hide

04:14SPEAKERthat set of apps for 12 hours or whatever?

04:17SPEAKER- Yeah, so at nine o'clock in the morning

04:18SPEAKERwhen I start working, my fucking around

04:21SPEAKERand like reading Kindle books and playing like Solitaire

04:24SPEAKERand whatever games I have on my phone, that one goes away.

04:27SPEAKER- You have to take them away from yourself?

04:29SPEAKER- No, I don't, I don't have to.

04:31SPEAKERI do it because I, you know, yeah, it's a,

04:35SPEAKERbut then the other side of this

04:36SPEAKERis that my work apps come up then

04:39SPEAKERand like my work calendar comes up then.

04:41SPEAKERBut then at five o'clock, my work calendar

04:44SPEAKERand my work apps go away and my goofing off apps come back.

04:46SPEAKERThe will, it's Will's time.

04:48SPEAKER- I, you know, I see the appeal.

04:50SPEAKER- It's good, also it changes my watch face.

04:52SPEAKERSo I have like a business and a party watch face.

04:54SPEAKER- Man, yeah, we talked about shortcuts a while ago.

04:57SPEAKERYou tipped me off to a fantastic use of it

04:59SPEAKERthat I have yet to set up for some reason,

05:01SPEAKERwhich was to disable your pie holes at a click.

05:04SPEAKER- Yeah, my pie hole, I can, well,

05:06SPEAKERthe problem is my pie hole disabled app

05:09SPEAKERis on the Will's party time page,

05:11SPEAKERnot on the Will's work time page.

05:13SPEAKER- That's gotta be in the all the time.

05:14SPEAKER- Well, look, it's not a perfect system, Brad.

05:20SPEAKERI know that's a bad place to end this one,

05:21SPEAKERbut I don't know.

05:23SPEAKER- Hey, look, we try to make these things go out

05:25SPEAKERon like nice pithy, you know,

05:28SPEAKERsomething like funny or snappy.

05:29SPEAKERAnd that's, that was like almost right there, but not quite.

05:32SPEAKERLike, how about--

05:34SPEAKER- We need a witty rejoinder too.

05:36SPEAKERIt's not a perfect, here, I'll give you another app.

05:38SPEAKER- I got it, I got it here.

05:39SPEAKERWe'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, ingly-dingly.

05:42SPEAKER- Perfect, nailed it.

05:43SPEAKER(upbeat music)

06:11SPEAKER- Welcome to Brad and Will Made a Check Pod.

06:13SPEAKERI'm Will.

06:14SPEAKER- I am Brad.

06:16SPEAKER- Brad, it's time to dip back into the well

06:19SPEAKERand get to one of my favorite topics.

06:22SPEAKER- I mean, mine too.

06:23SPEAKERBut I also stopped 30 seconds

06:26SPEAKERbefore we started recording this and said,

06:29SPEAKERshould we, should we really do another mass storage episode?

06:34SPEAKER- I'm ready.

06:34SPEAKERWorld Wrestling Entertainment

06:36SPEAKERhas been doing wrestling shows

06:37SPEAKERtwo or five times a week, something, I don't know,

06:40SPEAKERa million times a week for like a hundred years.

06:42SPEAKERDo you think they ever wake up in the morning like,

06:44SPEAKERhey, you know, should we do like mixed martial arts

06:46SPEAKERinstead of wrestling?

06:47SPEAKERNo, they're like, it's a wrestling show.

06:49SPEAKER- I mean, if you're going to invoke the WWE example,

06:51SPEAKERthen we need to, I think what you're saying is

06:52SPEAKERwe need to start infusing way more drama

06:54SPEAKERinto these episodes.

06:56SPEAKER- Or we just need to do NAS stuff every single week

06:58SPEAKERso people come for the NAS and stay for the tech.

07:01SPEAKER- Like if you're suggesting that we really get

07:03SPEAKERsome kind of like lasting feud going

07:05SPEAKERbetween Synology and True NAS or something?

07:08SPEAKER- What if we get some lasting feud going between us

07:10SPEAKERand some other technology podcast and drive up interest

07:13SPEAKERin both, if you know what I mean.

07:15SPEAKER- Fucking, all right, Marco Arment, you're on blast.

07:18SPEAKER- I'm going to break a folding chair over Marco Arment,

07:21SPEAKERthe back of Marco Arment's neck.

07:24SPEAKERI actually quite like, he seems like a delightful human

07:26SPEAKERbeing, I don't know why I would, anyway,

07:28SPEAKERthe point is, we're talking about NAS this week.

07:31SPEAKER- It's the first one I could think of.

07:32SPEAKER- Wow.

07:34SPEAKERIt would have been, I...

07:36SPEAKER- Okay, how about Groover?

07:38SPEAKER- I don't, you got to pick somebody I know personally

07:40SPEAKERso they'll know it's a bit and then they won't be like,

07:41SPEAKERhey, man, those dipshits over in San Francisco

07:44SPEAKERare talking smack about you.

07:46SPEAKERI don't want to, Groover has a big platform.

07:48SPEAKERI'm afraid to start beef with him.

07:49SPEAKERWe got to pick somebody closer to us, but not quite, anyway.

07:52SPEAKER- No bad publicity.

07:54SPEAKER- Okay, fair, fair, fair.

07:55SPEAKERI mean, look, there have been times,

07:57SPEAKERthere have been times I would have broken a tear

07:59SPEAKERover Groover's head, a folding-chaired Groover,

08:02SPEAKERI don't know, he seems like a generally okay guy

08:04SPEAKERdespite being a Phillies fan.

08:05SPEAKERAnyway, my NAS died as we established

08:11SPEAKERon the patron episode this month.

08:13SPEAKER- Yes, it did.

08:14SPEAKERI did too, but I guess we won't get into that here.

08:17SPEAKER- Well, you chose to go another path

08:18SPEAKERwhich involves much more work than I did.

08:21SPEAKER- You went the simple, easy turnkey solution.

08:24SPEAKERI am currently sifting through workstation

08:27SPEAKERand server motherboards day and night.

08:30SPEAKER- But I had been, my intent was to go on this path

08:33SPEAKERbefore the hardware failure that caused the problem

08:37SPEAKERthat brought my situation to a head, basically.

08:40SPEAKER- You were looking to simplify.

08:41SPEAKER- Yeah, so I had a TrueNAS box.

08:44SPEAKERI've had a TrueNAS, I've had some sort of home server

08:46SPEAKERstarting with like a Windows, an HP Windows home server box.

08:51SPEAKERDaddy, why is there a server in my house?

08:53SPEAKERThat one, if you recall the ad campaign.

08:57SPEAKERSince like 2010, 2011, maybe even before that.

09:01SPEAKERBut it's been a FreeNAS or TrueNAS box

09:02SPEAKERfor most of the last 10 years.

09:04SPEAKERAnd frankly, I'd reached a point where BSD was a limitation

09:12SPEAKERthat I didn't want to deal with anymore.

09:14SPEAKERAnd it seemed like for a while, TrueNAS was gonna switch over

09:17SPEAKERto a Linux version and I'm sure it's gonna happen

09:19SPEAKERat some point, but I got tired of waiting.

09:20SPEAKER- Oh, that's out, that did happen.

09:22SPEAKERSo just to clarify, TrueNAS core is what used to be

09:25SPEAKERjust plain old TrueNAS, which used to be for a FreeNAS.

09:29SPEAKERTrueNAS core is the free BSD one.

09:31SPEAKERTrueNAS scale did finally come out of beta, it is out now.

09:34SPEAKER- Okay.

09:34SPEAKER- The first version, that's Debian based,

09:36SPEAKERit's got Docker and Kubernetes support and--

09:40SPEAKER- Too late.

09:41SPEAKER- All the Linuxy shit you would want and ZFS,

09:44SPEAKERyou know, it's got all, I guess, but anyway.

09:46SPEAKER- Well, but at the same time, what I wanted was to have

09:51SPEAKERa turnkey solution for storage and maybe some light app use

09:57SPEAKERand a small dedicated high power machine

10:03SPEAKERwith decent power management for compute heavy stuff,

10:06SPEAKERlike say a Plex server or game servers

10:09SPEAKERor whatever else happens in that space.

10:12SPEAKER- So you're not the only proponent of this philosophy.

10:14SPEAKERThere's quite a few people on the discord who also want the,

10:17SPEAKERlike, you know, each box does one thing thing

10:20SPEAKERas opposed to like my approach, which is a NAS

10:22SPEAKERthat also is kind of doing everything else at the same time.

10:26SPEAKER- The thing that I always wonder about is,

10:28SPEAKERis the network bottleneck a bottleneck?

10:32SPEAKER- It depends on what you're doing.

10:33SPEAKERLike for my workloads, it doesn't matter.

10:35SPEAKERLike the heaviest thing I do is stream 4k movies

10:39SPEAKERoff of a Plex server.

10:40SPEAKER- Right.

10:41SPEAKER- That's pretty heavy in terms of network throughput.

10:43SPEAKERLike Plex is the prototypical case that I'm thinking about

10:46SPEAKERhere where it's like, especially with a Plex server

10:49SPEAKERthat is open to some number of external users like yours.

10:53SPEAKERLike if say, I don't know how many people

10:56SPEAKERare likely to be streaming movies at the same time.

10:59SPEAKER- Judging by my logs about 60th.

11:05SPEAKER- Of a person.

11:06SPEAKER- Of a person at any given time.

11:07SPEAKER- The 60th of a viewer.

11:09SPEAKER- I don't think I've ever had three external people.

11:11SPEAKER- Okay, that's fair.

11:12SPEAKERI mean, I didn't expect that it was like

11:13SPEAKERsome high performance, although there is that weird phenomenon

11:17SPEAKERof people out there charging for access

11:18SPEAKERto their Plex servers now and like having,

11:22SPEAKERI've seen people that treat it almost like a little,

11:24SPEAKERlike budding home business where they're like,

11:27SPEAKERwell, I gotta, I gotta have like eight more disks

11:29SPEAKERand like blah, blah, I gotta add this and that.

11:30SPEAKERCause I need like, I need to be able to do 16 trans codes

11:33SPEAKERat once and stuff like that cause they charge or whatever.

11:35SPEAKER- So I was going to say like, like, look,

11:37SPEAKERif somebody wanted to chuck a couple of hard drives my way,

11:39SPEAKERI wouldn't say no when, when,

11:41SPEAKERwhen I pay the hard drive toll every three years.

11:44SPEAKER- What I mean is I see them advertising on forums and stuff.

11:47SPEAKER- That's gross.

11:48SPEAKER- That's like they're, they're like selling access

11:49SPEAKERto strangers to their Plex library.

11:52SPEAKER- Yeah, like my, the people who have access to my Plex

11:55SPEAKERlibrary are...

11:58SPEAKER- Family and close friends.

11:59SPEAKER- Family and very close people I do podcasts with basically.

12:03SPEAKER- Anyway, sorry, I got off topic there,

12:04SPEAKERbut all I was trying to say is like, you know,

12:07SPEAKERyou are putting a relatively thin link between

12:10SPEAKERstorage and compute with the model that you

12:12SPEAKERand a lot of our listeners are talking about.

12:14SPEAKERWhereas like that was always the appeal of doing everything

12:16SPEAKERon the one machine to me is like,

12:18SPEAKERyou're going over some incredibly fast interconnect

12:20SPEAKERbetween the CPU and the storage in one box, you know.

12:24SPEAKER- Like you're, you're my,

12:26SPEAKERthe Blu-ray discs that I've ripped are all either H.264

12:31SPEAKERor increasingly H.265 range you can see.

12:33SPEAKER- Right.

12:34SPEAKER- So like you're looking at like a 20 to 50 megabit.

12:37SPEAKER- Sure.

12:37SPEAKER- Bit rate at most.

12:39SPEAKER- That's the thing, that's another thing I forgot.

12:41SPEAKERI'm also a lunatic who does not recompress

12:44SPEAKERdiscs after I rip them.

12:45SPEAKER- Yeah, no, see that's just madness.

12:47SPEAKER- I know it's madness, but look.

12:50SPEAKER- So, okay, so I ripped the discs, I recompressed them.

12:55SPEAKERThe, the heaviest thing I do is that,

12:58SPEAKERthe heaviest compute thing I do is probably game servers.

13:01SPEAKERAnd they're actually memory and a little bit of compute.

13:03SPEAKERThey're mostly single threaded though.

13:05SPEAKERSo like you want like an eight core machine

13:08SPEAKERor a six core machine for,

13:09SPEAKERif you're gonna run a couple of game servers

13:11SPEAKERin a Plex server, you want,

13:14SPEAKERyou want some sort of hardware acceleration

13:18SPEAKERfor video transcode.

13:21SPEAKERIf you're gonna run a Plex server probably,

13:22SPEAKERespecially if you're doing HEVC and tone mapping

13:27SPEAKERHDR files for, for HD viewing.

13:33SPEAKERAnd at the same time, I wanted a NAS that is,

13:37SPEAKERhandles, handles things like group failover,

13:39SPEAKERgraceful failover.

13:41SPEAKERI can put a hot spare in and stuff like that.

13:44SPEAKERAnd when you look at doing that yourself, you can,

13:48SPEAKERit's way cheaper both in terms of upfront cost

13:52SPEAKERand ongoing power cost.

13:54SPEAKERIf you just buy a cheap, I mean,

13:57SPEAKERI'm air quoting cheap cause it was like 700 bucks,

13:59SPEAKERbut a cheap all in one.

14:03SPEAKEROh, and the other thing it's important.

14:04SPEAKERI wanted something that was gonna be convenient

14:06SPEAKERto use headless or small enough that I could carry it

14:08SPEAKERinto the office and plug it into a monitor.

14:10SPEAKERNot something that I have to like yeet off the shelves

14:15SPEAKERand hope I catch it right as it's on its way down

14:17SPEAKERthat weighs 80 pounds.

14:18SPEAKER- Wait, you're exaggerating, right?

14:21SPEAKER- My existing--

14:22SPEAKER- It's not actually--

14:23SPEAKER- Flanders is pretty hefty.

14:25SPEAKER- Wow, really?

14:25SPEAKER- It doesn't weigh 80 pounds, but it weighs,

14:27SPEAKERit's like it's high up and the angle at which you have

14:29SPEAKERto pull it down puts a lot of stress on you in a weird way

14:32SPEAKERthat makes me worry that I'm going to accidentally

14:34SPEAKERkill myself with a server.

14:36SPEAKERThere's a reason we don't put servers on the top shelf,

14:38SPEAKERusually in data centers, right?

14:39SPEAKER- There's a lot of ways to go and that one is pretty noble,

14:41SPEAKERall things considered.

14:42SPEAKER- It would be right on the nose.

14:43SPEAKERIt would be very on brand.

14:45SPEAKER- Let me ask one quick question before we get

14:47SPEAKERinto the actual Synology stuff here.

14:50SPEAKERYou're talking about running single-threaded stuff

14:51SPEAKERon multi-core.

14:53SPEAKERIs it safe to assume that's like your average,

14:57SPEAKERlike what is it?

14:58SPEAKERA scheduler, I guess, is the thing in the OS

14:59SPEAKERthat doles out processes to different cores, right?

15:02SPEAKERIs that the term?

15:04SPEAKERLike, I assume it's easily smart enough these days

15:08SPEAKERto say like, okay, you have three or four

15:10SPEAKERsingle-threaded things.

15:11SPEAKERIt's just going to assign them out to different cores.

15:13SPEAKER- They go to the right place.

15:14SPEAKER- Intelligently, right?

15:15SPEAKERThat's not a problem anymore.

15:16SPEAKERAnd the last time that was a problem, really,

15:19SPEAKERassuming your OS is, you're running a modern OS,

15:23SPEAKERwas on those Intel.

15:25SPEAKERRemember when Intel used to put two CPUs

15:28SPEAKERthat had to interconnect across the PCI express bus?

15:31SPEAKER- Yes.

15:32SPEAKER- So like you didn't have any kind of high-speed interconnect

15:33SPEAKERbetween the CPU threads?

15:35SPEAKER- Are you talking about on just like

15:36SPEAKERthe old school dual CPU boards?

15:38SPEAKER- No, no, no, no.

15:40SPEAKERThose--

15:40SPEAKER- Oh, oh, oh.

15:41SPEAKERWas this like early core two duo type stuff?

15:43SPEAKER- This is core two duo stuff, yeah.

15:44SPEAKER- Whoa, whoa, whoa.

15:45SPEAKEROh, I didn't--

15:46SPEAKER- I think, I can't remember.

15:46SPEAKER- Oh my God, I did not realize they did that.

15:48SPEAKERThat's terrible.

15:49SPEAKER- Yeah, they might've talked across the north bridge,

15:51SPEAKERbut anyway, the point is they didn't have any kind of like

15:54SPEAKERcache level interconnect between the different CPU cores.

15:57SPEAKERSo--

15:58SPEAKER- Right, it's like what AMD calls the infinity fabric now,

16:00SPEAKERright, the little, little controller between.

16:02SPEAKER- Yeah, it's all the chip.

16:03SPEAKERIt's the things that made chip,

16:05SPEAKERimagine a chiplet without the thing

16:06SPEAKERthat lets the chiplets talk to each other.

16:08SPEAKER- That seems bad.

16:10SPEAKER- You, those CPUs were really great right up until the moment

16:13SPEAKERthat your two, two core, your two independent core CPUs

16:18SPEAKERhad to talk to each other and then it all went to shit.

16:21SPEAKERSo yeah, that's not, that shouldn't be a problem

16:22SPEAKERif your OS is set up right.

16:23SPEAKER- Okay, so it's, yes.

16:25SPEAKERWe won't spend a lot of time on it in this episode,

16:27SPEAKERbut since I am also looking at rebuilding my NAS,

16:29SPEAKERI've been looking at like Intel's current lineup

16:31SPEAKERand a lot of their chips have got the performance cores

16:34SPEAKERand efficiency cores on the same, on the same die.

16:36SPEAKERAnd I'm just kind of, it's got me wondering like how tasks

16:39SPEAKERare scheduled and doled out in situations like that.

16:42SPEAKER- So for that performance core and efficiency core thing,

16:44SPEAKERyou do need OS level support to make sure

16:46SPEAKERthat it directs stuff to the right things.

16:48SPEAKERThat's why they recommend Windows 11

16:50SPEAKERfor the 12 series Intel CPUs.

16:53SPEAKER- Oh, wow.

16:54SPEAKER- Because Windows 10 doesn't have that.

16:55SPEAKER- That's good to know, I did not know that at all.

16:58SPEAKER- The, I mean, they work otherwise.

17:01SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, I would be shocked if Linux and FreeBSD

17:04SPEAKERdid not account for that at this point.

17:06SPEAKER- My guess is you need a specific kernel version

17:09SPEAKERto get the right scheduling for that stuff

17:11SPEAKERon the newer Intel machines for Linux though.

17:13SPEAKER- Actually the bummer for somebody who wants to run

17:15SPEAKERthis machine 24/7, and I promise I'll stop after this,

17:19SPEAKERis that they kind of seem to only put the E-cores

17:21SPEAKERin the i7s and above.

17:23SPEAKER- Yeah.

17:24SPEAKER- The desktop i3s and i5s do not have efficiency cores

17:28SPEAKERin them, which kind of really sucks for somebody

17:30SPEAKERwho wants to let that machine run all the time.

17:32SPEAKER- Well, they're probably just slow enough

17:33SPEAKERthat it doesn't matter, right?

17:34SPEAKER- I don't know.

17:37SPEAKER- But so that power thing is an important consideration

17:40SPEAKER'cause that's both a hardware and an OS problem, right?

17:43SPEAKER- Yeah.

17:44SPEAKER- Part of the problem with Flanders is that it runs BSD

17:46SPEAKERand the power management in BSD is notorious

17:48SPEAKERfor being non-existent.

17:51SPEAKER- Okay, look, we need to moderate our stance here.

17:54SPEAKER- Okay, it was non-existent until about two years ago

17:57SPEAKERand then they started paying attention to it a little bit.

17:59SPEAKER- I mean, you can, well, you can't now

18:01SPEAKER'cause Flanders is dead, I guess,

18:02SPEAKERbut you can drop to a terminal in BSD

18:04SPEAKERand run a PowerD-V and you can watch your CPU frequency

18:08SPEAKERoscillates in real time.

18:10SPEAKERThat's 6700K I have in there,

18:13SPEAKERidle's at 800 megahertz in BSD.

18:15SPEAKER- That's good, yeah.

18:16SPEAKER- I mean, you'll see it spike every few seconds

18:18SPEAKERas the system has it doing stuff,

18:20SPEAKERbut it does employ the C-states to drop down

18:23SPEAKERto pretty manageable frequency.

18:26SPEAKER- Oh, okay.

18:27SPEAKER- But Linux, well, I think Linux definitely probably

18:29SPEAKERhas better modern power management, if I had to guess.

18:33SPEAKER- Yeah, I think that's, I mean, that was the consensus

18:35SPEAKERof all the stuff that I had read

18:37SPEAKERand that's why the smaller Linux machine

18:40SPEAKERthat I can pick up and carry in the other room

18:41SPEAKEReasily seems compelling without having to carry

18:44SPEAKER40 pounds of drives.

18:46SPEAKERSo with that in mind, I did a lot of reading

18:48SPEAKERabout the different kinds of NASes that are around

18:51SPEAKERand for a bunch of reasons that we don't necessarily

18:53SPEAKERneed to get into and maybe I don't remember

18:54SPEAKER'cause it was like two months ago,

18:56SPEAKERI ended up going with the Synology stuff,

18:58SPEAKERmainly because people seem to really like the software,

19:03SPEAKERlike the both people in the Discord,

19:05SPEAKERother folks I've talked to and reviews that I read

19:10SPEAKERseem to recommend their software,

19:12SPEAKERespecially for their Intel or x86 or x64 based platform.

19:18SPEAKERThe ARM support was a little bit less enthusiastic

19:25SPEAKER'cause they have ARM, x86 Intel and x86 Ryzen boxes

19:31SPEAKERand the performance on the ARM boxes

19:36SPEAKERwas less than I was looking for

19:38SPEAKER'cause I do wanna be able to transfer files,

19:40SPEAKERI do want 100 megabyte per second transfer speeds

19:43SPEAKERon the gigabit ethernet in the house.

19:46SPEAKERI didn't really care about getting faster than one gigabit,

19:50SPEAKERalthough most of the mid-range Synologies

19:52SPEAKERhave multiple ports so you can bond together

19:54SPEAKERif your switch supports that.

19:58SPEAKEROr do, I guess, seamless failover is the other way to do it

20:01SPEAKERor bind specific applications to specific interfaces.

20:04SPEAKERBut like I said, being able to transfer large files is nice.

20:11SPEAKERThe fastest thing that I need real-time performance on

20:13SPEAKERis like a 50 megabit UHD Blu-ray stream,

20:18SPEAKERso I'm fine with single gigabit on that is fine.

20:24SPEAKERAnd I ended up going with a DiskStation DS1520+,

20:29SPEAKERwhich is a Celeron J4125 four cores

20:35SPEAKERthat runs at default two gigahertz

20:37SPEAKERwith a burst clock up to 2.7 gigahertz.

20:41SPEAKERIt ships with eight gigs of RAM

20:42SPEAKERand it has five bays plus an M2 slot

20:45SPEAKERthat you can put an M2 SSD in for cache purposes.

20:50SPEAKER- Celeron J4125 is a Gemini Lake part?

20:54SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't know.

20:55SPEAKERGemini Lake is a spinoff of one of the other,

20:59SPEAKERit's the Celeron version of one of the newer,

21:02SPEAKERI think eight or nine series, I can't remember.

21:05SPEAKER- Yeah, this came out in 2019, so that sounds right,

21:08SPEAKERprobably ninth gen, something like that.

21:11SPEAKERIt's 14 nanometer.

21:12SPEAKER- Yeah, I would say it does not light the world

21:15SPEAKERon fire and performance, but for this purpose,

21:17SPEAKERit's exactly what I wanted 'cause I didn't want something

21:19SPEAKERthat was gonna use a whole boatload of power

21:21SPEAKERwhen it's running 24/7.

21:22SPEAKER- I shouldn't have just closed that arc page

21:25SPEAKERbecause I've got, yeah, the TDP on the thing is 10 watts.

21:28SPEAKERMan, man.

21:29SPEAKER- Yeah, so-

21:30SPEAKER- Oh, I'm jealous, kind of.

21:32SPEAKER- Well, I was gonna say the spec sheet,

21:34SPEAKERso I went looking for my watt meter

21:36SPEAKERand I think I returned it to test it when I quit

21:38SPEAKER'cause I haven't tried to use it since then,

21:39SPEAKERI wasn't able to find it.

21:42SPEAKERBut the spec sheet says that with one terabyte

21:45SPEAKERWestern Digital drives, and this is a good point

21:47SPEAKER'cause like the number of drives you have in here

21:49SPEAKERis going to determine the power usage,

21:53SPEAKERis that it's 15.5 watts when the drives are in

21:56SPEAKERthe hibernation mode when they're not spinning

21:57SPEAKER'cause it'll spin them down after,

21:58SPEAKERwhen there's not access for a period of time.

22:00SPEAKER- Wait, are you a spin downer?

22:02SPEAKER- I am a spin downer on new drives.

22:05SPEAKERAs the drives get older, I become a spin upper.

22:07SPEAKER- Oh, okay.

22:09SPEAKER- Yeah, if you have drives that you've had running nonstop

22:13SPEAKERfor multiple years, you should not switch them to spin down.

22:16SPEAKERIf you're starting with new drives,

22:18SPEAKERyou can have them spin down and spin up without a problem.

22:21SPEAKERIf the lubricant on the bearings breaks down,

22:25SPEAKERthen to spin up and spin down will seize them

22:27SPEAKERand you can't seize them and you'll have problems.

22:29SPEAKER- Sure, I always worried that something would constantly

22:32SPEAKERbe trying to access them.

22:34SPEAKEREvery time they spun down, they would spin right back up.

22:36SPEAKERWas my fear.

22:38SPEAKER- On TrueNAS, that's why I had the SSD cache

22:41SPEAKERbecause then theoretically the things that are causing it

22:44SPEAKERto spin up and spin down right to the SSD

22:46SPEAKERand then it dumps it out every couple hours

22:48SPEAKERfrom the SSD to the hard drives.

22:51SPEAKERIt's 37 watts while the drives are being accessed

22:53SPEAKERand that's again, like that's one terabyte drives.

22:55SPEAKERI put 14 terabyte element drives in there.

22:59SPEAKERSo that means I shucked.

23:03SPEAKER- Oh, I was gonna ask what the, right.

23:04SPEAKERI'm just trying to remember.

23:05SPEAKERThe elements are external drives.

23:07SPEAKER- Yeah, the elements are relatively inexpensive

23:09SPEAKERexternal drives.

23:10SPEAKERThey do not use NAS drives.

23:12SPEAKERThere's a whole host of reasons that this is a bad idea,

23:15SPEAKERbut I'm doing it as an experiment

23:17SPEAKERand it's getting backed up, so I don't care.

23:18SPEAKER- Yeah, well, as somebody who instead went

23:20SPEAKERand bought a bunch of red pros a few months ago,

23:22SPEAKERI went the complete other opposite direction.

23:26SPEAKER- That's what I'd always done in the past.

23:27SPEAKER- I see the appeal. - But they're so expensive now.

23:29SPEAKER- It's so expensive.

23:30SPEAKER- And like I ended up with 25 gigs of usable space

23:33SPEAKERon a three disc array or 26 gigs of usable space

23:38SPEAKERon a three disc array.

23:39SPEAKER- 26 terabyte?

23:40SPEAKER- Sorry, terabytes.

23:42SPEAKERI'm tired, it's been a long week, Brad.

23:43SPEAKER- I get it.

23:45SPEAKER- Yeah, 26 terabytes of usable space on a three disc array.

23:49SPEAKERIf I had spent the same amount of money on reds,

23:51SPEAKERI would have ended up with about 18, I think,

23:53SPEAKERwas where it worked out.

23:54SPEAKERI was gonna end up with like eight gig,

23:55SPEAKEReight terabyte drives instead of 14 terabyte drives.

23:58SPEAKERSo, and since I wasn't using FreeNAS and the ZFS stuff,

24:06SPEAKERI didn't have to worry about the shingle drives

24:07SPEAKERor less of a concern, so.

24:12SPEAKERLet's see, eight gigs RAM, you have one slot to expand

24:15SPEAKERthat's pre-populated with four gigs in this particular model.

24:18SPEAKER- Is that your standard like laptop-style?

24:20SPEAKER- PPR4 laptop memory, I think, but I don't know.

24:23SPEAKER- So dim or whatever it is?

24:25SPEAKER- Yeah, I think you have to buy,

24:26SPEAKERthey recommend that you buy it from them.

24:27SPEAKERI don't, I didn't pay attention

24:29SPEAKERto what the format form factor is.

24:31SPEAKERI, my intention is not to put anything on here

24:34SPEAKERthat would require me to increase the memory in it ever.

24:37SPEAKER- Yeah.

24:38SPEAKER- And it does, like I said, it has the M2 slot for the cache

24:41SPEAKERwhich probably the next time I retire a laptop

24:43SPEAKERthat has an appropriate M2 card, I'll just drop in.

24:47SPEAKER- Four gig, four gigabit, four gigabit ethernet ports.

24:51SPEAKER- To be clear, I mean, well, four gigabit is not a standard

24:54SPEAKERso I must, I guess I know the answer.

24:56SPEAKERThat's four one gigabit ports is what you're saying?

24:58SPEAKER- It's four one gigabit ethernet ports, yeah.

25:00SPEAKER- Okay, okay.

25:02SPEAKER- And two USB 3.2 ports, the, you know,

25:08SPEAKERit's the fast one, it's the Gen 1 USB 3.

25:12SPEAKERThey renamed everything a few months ago

25:14SPEAKERand I can't, I can never remember

25:15SPEAKERwhat the new naming system is.

25:17SPEAKER- Are they still blue?

25:18SPEAKERThat's the question.

25:19SPEAKER- They are still blue.

25:20SPEAKER- Okay, enough said.

25:22SPEAKER- Here I have a USB cheat sheet here.

25:25SPEAKERLet's see, USB 3.2 Gen 1 is five gigabits signal.

25:34SPEAKER- Never underestimate the USB consortium's ability

25:37SPEAKERto make things more complicated.

25:38SPEAKER- Yeah, it sucks, it's really bad.

25:42SPEAKERSo that's kind of like the hardware stuff.

25:47SPEAKER- Oh, did you mention the two eSATA ports?

25:49SPEAKER- Two eSATA ports, which like,

25:51SPEAKERI don't know who the hell is going to use an eSATA port

25:53SPEAKERin 2022, but whatever, I'm sure somebody does.

25:55SPEAKER- You wrote lol next to that.

25:57SPEAKER- Yeah, I did put lol next to it.

25:58SPEAKERAnd you can, you can expand this with secondary drive cages.

26:04SPEAKERSo you can get like a drive cage that doesn't have a CPU

26:06SPEAKERthat's just like the drive cages and the IO stuff.

26:09SPEAKER- Like a backplane kind of thing?

26:11SPEAKER- Yeah, and it plugs in through a proprietary thing

26:14SPEAKERthat lets you, you can use it

26:15SPEAKEReither as additional drives,

26:17SPEAKERlike for the main storage volumes,

26:19SPEAKERyou can back up the main array to it,

26:23SPEAKERor you can put more, do fail overs

26:26SPEAKERfor each individual drive or whatever.

26:28SPEAKERYou can put two of those into this,

26:29SPEAKERdaisy chain two of these into this.

26:31SPEAKER- Interesting, that's cool.

26:33SPEAKER- They're expensive.

26:34SPEAKERIt like, it doesn't seem like a good idea

26:35SPEAKERfor what it's worth.

26:36SPEAKERIt seems like you'd be better off replacing drives

26:38SPEAKERwith bigger capacity drives, but your mileage may vary.

26:41SPEAKER- Does this have any kind of expansion slot?

26:43SPEAKER- I'd swear I've seen that with some Synology models

26:46SPEAKERwhere you could drop like a 10 gigabit network adapter

26:48SPEAKERor something.

26:49SPEAKERI don't know if that's like,

26:49SPEAKERit's just a straight up PCIE slot

26:50SPEAKERor if it's something custom or how that works.

26:52SPEAKER- So it's a custom interface for what looks like a PCIE slot

26:56SPEAKERand this one doesn't have it.

26:58SPEAKERThe replacement, so the 1520 plus,

27:00SPEAKERI literally bought this in the last like month

27:02SPEAKERthat those were available.

27:04SPEAKERI knew that the new one was coming,

27:05SPEAKERbut I actually, I was worried about drive failure

27:07SPEAKERtaking out my entire array and didn't want to have like,

27:10SPEAKERquite literally didn't want to have to restore

27:12SPEAKER10 terabytes of data.

27:14SPEAKERSo I bought it anyway.

27:17SPEAKERThe 1522 plus, which is the replacement model for this,

27:21SPEAKERuses a slightly newer CPU and has that proprietary adapter

27:25SPEAKERthat's a 10 gig ethernet fiber connector.

27:30SPEAKER- Or anything, right?

27:30SPEAKERIf it's just a feature connector.

27:32SPEAKER- It might just be ether actually when I think about it.

27:34SPEAKERYeah, I looked at it.

27:35SPEAKERHold on, let's see.

27:35SPEAKER- Potentially put other stuff in there

27:38SPEAKERbesides network adapters?

27:39SPEAKER- I think it's proprietary and I'll put network adapters in.

27:43SPEAKER- Oh, weird, huh?

27:44SPEAKER- Yeah, that would be my guess.

27:48SPEAKERAnd I don't know that you can plug in like a GPU

27:49SPEAKERor something like that if you want to use GPU transcode

27:51SPEAKERor whatever on this with the USB.

27:53SPEAKER- Do you know if you could aggregate multiple of those

27:57SPEAKERone gigabit ethernet ports potentially?

28:00SPEAKER- Depending on the model you get,

28:02SPEAKERyou absolutely can aggregate them, yes.

28:04SPEAKER- Okay, now that's an option.

28:05SPEAKERI'm telling you, let's see, I'm scrolling up here.

28:11SPEAKERYeah, the one that I have has link aggregation and failover

28:14SPEAKERassuming you support.

28:15SPEAKERLink aggregation is, it turns out it's kind of complicated.

28:18SPEAKERThere's like multiple formats for that.

28:19SPEAKER- And I've always heard it's maybe not as simple

28:23SPEAKERor kind of reliable is not the word I'm looking for,

28:26SPEAKERbut like, it's not as straightforward as you might think.

28:28SPEAKER- Yeah, you need support on the switch end.

28:31SPEAKERYou need support, you need to support the same spec

28:33SPEAKERon the switch and the end points.

28:38SPEAKERAnd like, it's not like you can just put two network cards

28:42SPEAKERin your computer and it'll work.

28:43SPEAKERYou need to get two of the right network cards and all that.

28:46SPEAKERMy switch and my NAS do not support the right formats.

28:52SPEAKERI don't believe, but like I said, it doesn't apply to me.

28:55SPEAKERSo what I did do was bind Plex to one user, one IP address

29:01SPEAKERand the Docker and the other apps are on the other one.

29:07SPEAKERSo you can choose which IP address,

29:09SPEAKERlike each interface gets its own IP address

29:11SPEAKERif they're not aggregated.

29:13SPEAKERAnd you can choose which goes to which IP,

29:15SPEAKERwhich is, it turns out really convenient

29:17SPEAKER'cause Docker is kind of a pain in the ass

29:18SPEAKERabout changing IP addresses for a lot of applications.

29:21SPEAKER- That's one reason I'm sorry

29:23SPEAKERthat I'm constantly going on tangents around here.

29:28SPEAKERMaybe I'm speaking out of turn here

29:30SPEAKER'cause I don't know a ton about Docker,

29:31SPEAKERbut yeah, that was my understanding.

29:32SPEAKERAnd one thing I like about Jails and LXC is the same

29:36SPEAKERand Linux and discrete VMs are also the same.

29:39SPEAKERI love each container having

29:40SPEAKERits own discrete network interface

29:43SPEAKER'cause then every container has its own IP on your LAN.

29:46SPEAKER- It's much easier to manage, it turns out.

29:48SPEAKER- Makes it really easy when almost every service

29:50SPEAKERyou're running has its own web interface

29:51SPEAKERwhen they all have their own IP on the LAN.

29:54SPEAKER- For example, my Unifi application

29:57SPEAKERthat manages the WiFi access points in my house

30:02SPEAKERused to run in a jail on Flanders

30:04SPEAKERand I was trying to put it in a Docker container

30:06SPEAKERon this machine and it conflicts with another application

30:09SPEAKERthat's running in a plugin.

30:10SPEAKERSo that's why I had to do the multiple IP addresses thing.

30:14SPEAKERIt turns out just plugging another ethernet port in

30:15SPEAKERwas not a problem

30:16SPEAKER'cause I have a bunch of ports on the switch,

30:18SPEAKERbut like hoops that I didn't need to jump through.

30:21SPEAKER- Yeah, again, I would love to hear

30:23SPEAKERfrom people who use Docker consistently

30:27SPEAKERor in-depth, but my understanding is you're mostly stuck

30:31SPEAKERwith some kind of host shared IP situation.

30:34SPEAKERYou're probably hitting different ports on the host's IP

30:38SPEAKERto get to the container network.

30:40SPEAKER- So you can, there are ways around that now using VLANs

30:44SPEAKERand stuff on the Linux side.

30:46SPEAKERFrom my reading, I got to the point where I was looking,

30:48SPEAKERI was like, this is going to create a maintenance nightmare

30:50SPEAKERfor me and I don't wanna fool with it.

30:52SPEAKERSo I'm just gonna do it the easy, stupid way,

30:55SPEAKERwhich has worked out well so far.

30:59SPEAKERSo yeah, as for the configuration on this,

31:02SPEAKERit's a web interface.

31:04SPEAKERYou plug it in, you boot it up.

31:07SPEAKERIt says, hey, I'm gonna download the OS.

31:09SPEAKERWhat account do you wanna connect this to?

31:11SPEAKERDo you wanna do a local account?

31:12SPEAKERDo you wanna do a remote account?

31:14SPEAKERI did a local account 'cause I don't need to use

31:16SPEAKERtheir remote stuff to access my data remotely.

31:19SPEAKERAnd it's just one more point of security failure

31:22SPEAKERfor me to have connected to some cloud service.

31:26SPEAKERBut if you don't wanna fool with like WireGuard

31:27SPEAKERor something like that yourself and do a VPN

31:29SPEAKERinto your house, then you can connect through their portal.

31:34SPEAKERAnd from reading, it seems fine.

31:37SPEAKERI just, there's no need for me to add that to the,

31:42SPEAKERadd another point of failure.

31:44SPEAKER- I do not love the proliferation of remote cloud-based admin

31:48SPEAKERand devices of this type and routers and you name it,

31:51SPEAKERlike access point, like everybody wants you

31:53SPEAKERto register an account and go through their servers

31:55SPEAKERto admin the thing in your house and no.

31:58SPEAKER- I didn't mind doing that with Google,

32:00SPEAKERwith my Google wifi routers, the ones that I had previously,

32:04SPEAKERjust because like my Google account's locked down

32:06SPEAKERand it has two factor and all that stuff attached.

32:08SPEAKERI'm less worried about it.

32:10SPEAKERThe more, the smaller a company I deal with

32:13SPEAKERand the less security focused company or conscious company

32:17SPEAKERI'm dealing with, the less excited I am about that.

32:19SPEAKER- That's exactly it.

32:20SPEAKERLike I'm not worried about Google getting compromised,

32:22SPEAKERbut some of these other device makers, I don't know.

32:25SPEAKERLast thing about the noise, they report,

32:28SPEAKERI think 37 decibels, that seems high.

32:31SPEAKERI know, actually that's right, I think.

32:34SPEAKERSorry, 28, 20.8 decibels average.

32:37SPEAKER- That's decent, that's not too bad.

32:40SPEAKER- That's, it has a quiet mode, a loud mode

32:42SPEAKERand a normal mode, I have run it in quiet.

32:45SPEAKERI can't hear whether the switch fans or those fans

32:48SPEAKERare the loud ones, they're right next to each other.

32:52SPEAKERSo like I put it in the garage, it lives in my garage.

32:55SPEAKERDoesn't get cold here though, so probably that's fine.

32:59SPEAKERSo manage everything through web interface.

33:01SPEAKERThere's a package store, package interface

33:03SPEAKERon the web interface that lets you download

33:05SPEAKERlike a whole host of CLI tools if you want that.

33:07SPEAKERYou can put Python and Mono and .NET,

33:10SPEAKERall of the dependency stuff that you might need

33:12SPEAKERfor other plugins.

33:14SPEAKERIf a plugin has a dependency, it'll just grab the,

33:16SPEAKERit'll say, hey, you gotta get this in order

33:18SPEAKERfor this to work and just download it automatically,

33:20SPEAKERjust like you would expect on a Linux package manager.

33:23SPEAKER- Can you install stuff manually at the command line

33:25SPEAKERor do you have to get it all through their

33:26SPEAKERkind of plugin repository?

33:29SPEAKER- I haven't, I'll be honest.

33:30SPEAKERI have, oh, yes, you can absolutely download stuff manually

33:34SPEAKERand install it.

33:35SPEAKERI've done that through the web interface,

33:36SPEAKERjust so you have one point of contact

33:38SPEAKERfor do you need updates?

33:40SPEAKER- Okay.

33:41SPEAKER- Which has worked pretty well so far.

33:44SPEAKER- Yeah, I guess I'm just curious how much they let you

33:47SPEAKERtreat this like a straight up computer if you want to.

33:49SPEAKERLike you've, on true analysis, it's like the opposite

33:51SPEAKERof that, which, 'cause you're installing it on like

33:53SPEAKERcommodity x86 hardware, it is literally a computer

33:56SPEAKERand yet they heavily discourage you from installing stuff

33:59SPEAKERyourself, like they straight up say,

34:01SPEAKERhey, this is an appliance, do not install packages

34:04SPEAKERon your own, like you're risking messing stuff up bad

34:07SPEAKERif you get in here and tinker too much.

34:09SPEAKER- I'm using the true NAS rule of if you're going

34:14SPEAKERto install something, install it in this case Docker

34:16SPEAKERor through the plugin options.

34:18SPEAKER- That is absolutely, put it in some sandbox.

34:21SPEAKER- Yeah, because the upgrade process for new versions

34:24SPEAKERof DSM, DSM is I think Disk Station Manager,

34:27SPEAKERwhat the acronym stands for, it seems like it's going

34:31SPEAKERto have the same problem that true NAS has where it'll

34:32SPEAKERwipe out anything you do to the main OS if you make

34:36SPEAKERsignificant changes, or at least it will cause problems

34:38SPEAKERwith the upgrade.

34:40SPEAKERSo yeah, you also get SSH and like I installed SSH

34:44SPEAKERimmediately or turn on SSH immediately and SSH

34:46SPEAKERinto the machine, DSM is based on Linux, I think it's based

34:50SPEAKERon a Debian, it's a Debian fork,

34:53SPEAKERbut I could be wrong about that.

34:56SPEAKER- Can we talk file systems is now a good time for that?

34:59SPEAKER- We can talk about file systems if you want.

35:00SPEAKER- I kind of fancy myself a bit of an armchair file system

35:04SPEAKERnerd, and I'm curious just like what the process was like

35:08SPEAKERwhen you plugged drives in.

35:10SPEAKER- So you plug a drive in and it says, hey, this drive

35:13SPEAKERdoesn't have anything on it, you want to delete whatever's

35:15SPEAKERon here and make it ready for the NAS, I was like, sure,

35:17SPEAKERthat sounds great, I will totally do that.

35:19SPEAKERAnd then it said, hey, there's no volume on this,

35:22SPEAKERI mean, there's, after you've made the volume, it said,

35:24SPEAKERhey, there's no, there's, after you make the storage pool

35:29SPEAKERwith one disk, I did it with one disk at first,

35:31SPEAKERso I could bring copy stuff over and then added the other

35:36SPEAKERtwo as they arrived, you can expand the volumes dynamically,

35:43SPEAKERyou don't have to add a specific number, the file system

35:46SPEAKERis BRFS, better FS, 'cause I think they have the

35:50SPEAKERpronunciation for the non-ronym, not acronym.

35:54SPEAKER- I think it's, I think it's open-ended, I think you can

35:56SPEAKERkind of, there are multiple, I like butter FS.

35:59SPEAKER- Butter FS is the other, yeah.

36:03SPEAKERIt also supports the EXT4 if you want to roll old school,

36:06SPEAKERyou can plug in a drive that's EXT4 internally,

36:12SPEAKERpull the data off of that onto your storage pool

36:15SPEAKERor your volume inside a storage pool and then add that drive

36:18SPEAKERto the storage pool if you want to get really crazy.

36:20SPEAKERFor external drives, USB, it supports a bunch of other stuff

36:23SPEAKERincluding like NTFS and EXT, whatever Mac OS uses now,

36:29SPEAKERI can't even remember, and FAT32 extended and all those,

36:34SPEAKERBRTF, butter FS, X4, X3, FAT, NTFS, HFS plus or XFAT.

36:40SPEAKER- That's the Mac OS one is HFS plus.

36:43SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm curious, well, this is out of scope

36:47SPEAKERfor this episode, I'm curious what else is running

36:49SPEAKERunder the hood to manage a raise and that thing,

36:53SPEAKERlike clinic style, if there's like LVM or MDADM

36:56SPEAKERand stuff like that.

36:57SPEAKER- I mean, SSH into a PSAX, yeah.

36:59SPEAKER- Stuff like that in there, I don't know if that would show

37:01SPEAKERup in the process list, I don't quite,

37:03SPEAKERI don't have a great grasp of how that stuff works

37:05SPEAKER'cause I'm all ZFS all the time around here, but.

37:08SPEAKER- So the thing I'll say is that the stuff that you see

37:12SPEAKERthrough the web interface is pretty cleaned up and safe.

37:14SPEAKERLike you can't, you can access anything that's in a share

37:17SPEAKERfrom the file manager in the web interface.

37:22SPEAKERIf you get in the terminal, you can get into like

37:23SPEAKERthe slash bar and slash user folders and stuff like that.

37:29SPEAKER- Oh, okay, huh.

37:33SPEAKER- Like it's. - I have, sorry.

37:35SPEAKER- It's okay.

37:36SPEAKER- I have ended up on a Synology Knowledge Center page

37:38SPEAKERcalled how can I use a PC to recover data

37:40SPEAKERwhen my Synology NAS malfunctions.

37:43SPEAKER- Oh, there you go.

37:44SPEAKER- They straight up have you installing Ubuntu,

37:47SPEAKERthen installing MDADM and LVM2 actually,

37:52SPEAKERand then walking you through it to access the array

37:55SPEAKERon the drives.

37:55SPEAKERSo I guess that stuff is running under the hood.

37:58SPEAKER- Yeah, it's, I mean, the thing that I,

38:01SPEAKERmy understanding from the reading I did beforehand

38:04SPEAKERis that it's basically, you're basically like running

38:06SPEAKERa prettied up version of Linux.

38:07SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

38:08SPEAKERI mean, that's how people do traditionally do raids

38:11SPEAKERon Linux, like the components like that.

38:12SPEAKERI'm just curious if that's what's in there

38:14SPEAKERor if it was something proprietary that they had spun up,

38:18SPEAKERbut it sounds like it is, that's kind of standard stuff.

38:22SPEAKER- So yeah, you, let's see the SSH stuff.

38:28SPEAKERThe only time I've used SSH for the most part

38:30SPEAKERwas to like rsync stuff over from the old server

38:33SPEAKERonto the new server, which took like three days,

38:37SPEAKERI think, all told, two and a half, three days

38:39SPEAKERto do 10 terabytes of data across the one gigabit.

38:42SPEAKER- From, not Flanders.

38:45SPEAKER- From Flanders to Netty.

38:47SPEAKER- Oh wait, so the data was accessible through Flanders?

38:49SPEAKER- Well, yeah, 'cause I had one drive fail

38:51SPEAKERon a parity array.

38:52SPEAKER- It was just one drive, okay.

38:54SPEAKER- Yeah, and then recently the other,

38:57SPEAKERthe second drive let loose the mortal coil,

39:00SPEAKERwhich caused some downwind effects.

39:02SPEAKER- I see, okay, okay.

39:04SPEAKERSo you were zero drives of redundancy away from?

39:08SPEAKER- For two months.

39:09SPEAKERI wanted to see how long the drives would last.

39:10SPEAKER- From catastrophic failure?

39:12SPEAKER- For, I was zero drives away from catastrophic failure

39:15SPEAKERfor about 18 hours, which is why I went.

39:16SPEAKER- Oh wow, okay, okay.

39:18SPEAKER- I had one of, I had bought,

39:21SPEAKERso I had been watching the price

39:24SPEAKERof those 14 terabyte elements drives,

39:26SPEAKER'cause that's what I determined

39:27SPEAKERwas the kind of sweet spot for me.

39:29SPEAKERLike they were hovering between 200 and 250 bucks on sale

39:33SPEAKERusing shuckstop, the website.

39:36SPEAKERI think it's shuckstop, stow dot?

39:39SPEAKER- It's shucks.top, I believe.

39:41SPEAKER- Yes, shucks.top, that's it.

39:42SPEAKER- Let me double check.

39:43SPEAKER- Or shucks.top.

39:45SPEAKER- Yeah, shucks.top is, yes.

39:49SPEAKER- Yeah, so they were hovering between 200 and 250 drives

39:52SPEAKERat bucks, and I'd bought one when they were 200 bucks,

39:54SPEAKERhadn't opened it up yet.

39:55SPEAKERIt was just sitting here waiting for more,

39:57SPEAKERand I just wanted to spread out the purchases a little bit.

39:59SPEAKER- Okay, I was just trying to get a sense

40:00SPEAKERof how dangerously you like to live.

40:02SPEAKER- Not very.

40:03SPEAKER- So you had two drives of redundancy, you lost one,

40:06SPEAKERand you were like, "La, la, la,

40:07SPEAKERI'm just gonna keep going for two months," and whatever.

40:10SPEAKER- I only had a parity drive, so I had three drives.

40:12SPEAKERI had three drives, one failed.

40:14SPEAKERIf a second one failed, I would have lost everything.

40:16SPEAKER- Oh, I thought a second one did fail.

40:20SPEAKER- Okay, so the first one failed in like the early May.

40:24SPEAKERThat was the day I went to Central Computer

40:26SPEAKERand bought the Synology, 'cause it was $32 more expensive

40:29SPEAKERthere than it was anywhere else I could find.

40:31SPEAKERI was like, "That is a reasonable price to pay

40:33SPEAKERto have it right now."

40:34SPEAKERAnd then I came home that afternoon,

40:36SPEAKERand I opened up the 14 terabyte drive

40:38SPEAKERthat was sitting in my storage for the last three months,

40:43SPEAKERand I put that drive in, and I started copying data

40:45SPEAKERoff of Flanders immediately.

40:48SPEAKERThey've been running in parallel since.

40:50SPEAKER- Oh, okay, that makes more sense.

40:52SPEAKER- Yeah, and then the other two,

40:53SPEAKERI ordered two more drives that day that arrived later,

40:56SPEAKERand I had parity running on Netty at that point,

40:58SPEAKERand everything's been fine since then.

41:01SPEAKERSo, Netty is the new, it's like, it's small.

41:04SPEAKERIt's baby Flanders.

41:07SPEAKERYou gotta have a theme, Brad.

41:08SPEAKER- Should we just do an entire episode

41:10SPEAKERof having people send us their names

41:11SPEAKERfor their computers and other nodes on their network?

41:14SPEAKER- We didn't want people to send a bunch in

41:16SPEAKERon questions episodes for a while.

41:18SPEAKER- That's possible, maybe so.

41:19SPEAKERI feel like everybody's got their own naming scheme.

41:22SPEAKER- Yeah, of course.

41:23SPEAKERSo yeah, okay, so that all happened in May.

41:26SPEAKERThe second drive on Flanders conked out the other day.

41:30SPEAKER- With you now, yes.

41:31SPEAKER- But honestly, I rebooted the machine, it's fine again.

41:34SPEAKERSo I managed to pull, for listeners of the patron episode,

41:39SPEAKERI managed to pull all of the Plex data off,

41:41SPEAKERthe current Plex data,

41:42SPEAKERand did actually manage to get it ported over.

41:45SPEAKERThe problem I was having is that the version of Plex

41:48SPEAKERthat's in the package manager store

41:50SPEAKERon the Synology package manager site, store app,

41:56SPEAKERis ancient, it's really old.

41:58SPEAKER- You're forever going to have your Plex server

42:01SPEAKERhaving a notification up there saying,

42:03SPEAKER"Hey, there's a new server available.

42:04SPEAKERYou should go upgrade."

42:05SPEAKERAnd you're gonna be like, "I can't."

42:06SPEAKER- Nope, 'cause I went to the site,

42:08SPEAKERI went to the Plex site

42:10SPEAKERwhere they do a new version every update

42:12SPEAKERand just pulled the Plex version from their site manually

42:15SPEAKERand just pulled it manually.

42:17SPEAKER- Did you just replace the binary manually or what?

42:20SPEAKER- No, no, no, there's their package manager.

42:23SPEAKERIt's like flat packs.

42:24SPEAKER- Oh, oh, I see, okay.

42:26SPEAKER- They provide a, hold on,

42:27SPEAKERI'll tell you what the file extension is.

42:30SPEAKERIt's like SNPK or something.

42:35SPEAKERIt is an SPK file, which maybe is a Synology pack,

42:39SPEAKERwould be, I guess, that has all the stuff in it.

42:43SPEAKERAnd it just magically worked when you installed it.

42:46SPEAKERAnd then all the documentation that was on that page

42:48SPEAKERthat we discussed on the Patreon episode was correct.

42:51SPEAKER- I see.

42:52SPEAKER- Yeah, so aside from the R syncing,

42:55SPEAKERevery other time I thought,

42:56SPEAKER"Oh, I should SSH the machine to do this,"

42:58SPEAKERprobably that was a mistake

42:59SPEAKERand I should have just used the UI, would be the TLDR.

43:02SPEAKER- Fair.

43:06SPEAKER- And then the other thing that I love,

43:09SPEAKER'cause I never bothered to set up email notifications

43:11SPEAKERon the TrueNAS box even after 10 years,

43:15SPEAKERis I have an app on my phone that gets a notification

43:20SPEAKERthat does go out through their third-party shit

43:22SPEAKERanytime there's some sort of error on the device.

43:24SPEAKER- Man, that is exactly what I wanna set up on my NAS.

43:28SPEAKERAnd I've been looking, of course,

43:29SPEAKERinto all kinds of open source solutions

43:31SPEAKERthat I'm gonna have to manually set up to do it.

43:34SPEAKER- This took about 30 seconds to set up.

43:35SPEAKERIt was really nice.

43:36SPEAKER- That's, look, I generally lean away

43:39SPEAKERfrom proprietary closed options,

43:41SPEAKERbut that's pretty appealing.

43:44SPEAKER- So I don't, just full disclosure,

43:47SPEAKERhaven't had a bad sector yet.

43:49SPEAKERSo I don't know if it actually works,

43:50SPEAKERbut it seems like it works.

43:52SPEAKERThe test notification went through.

43:56SPEAKERSo yeah, there's a bunch of plugins.

43:58SPEAKERThe one thing I will say is that app

43:59SPEAKERdoesn't give you any kind of manageability

44:01SPEAKERthrough the phone.

44:02SPEAKERAll the manageability you have to run

44:03SPEAKERthrough the web interface,

44:05SPEAKERwhich does work on the phone browser,

44:06SPEAKERbut it's pretty small.

44:08SPEAKER- What is the app for then?

44:10SPEAKER- The app is just a notification receptacle.

44:12SPEAKER- That's it?

44:13SPEAKER- I mean, it does some other stuff too.

44:14SPEAKERIt lets you, like, I think you can light up, hold on.

44:20SPEAKERYou can turn on the lights.

44:22SPEAKERIf you have a whole bunch of these

44:24SPEAKERin a server room or something,

44:25SPEAKERyou can make the lights blink

44:26SPEAKERso you can find a particular hard drive or machine, I think.

44:31SPEAKERBut yeah, for the most part, it doesn't do a whole lot.

44:33SPEAKERYou can install some apps inside this app

44:35SPEAKERthat lets you have access to the drive and stuff like that,

44:37SPEAKERbut I'm intentionally not turning that on

44:39SPEAKER'cause I don't want that stuff accessible

44:41SPEAKERfrom outside the house.

44:43SPEAKERAnd I think you can add users

44:45SPEAKERto the machines from this as well.

44:50SPEAKERYou can do light updating, I guess,

44:52SPEAKERbut it does have a deep link to your web interface

44:55SPEAKERif you're inside the right subnet or whatever.

44:58SPEAKERAnd yeah, the plugins,

44:59SPEAKERthere's plugins for everything from,

45:02SPEAKERmost of their core functionality is built as a plugin now,

45:04SPEAKERso SMB support is a plugin, the file manager is a plugin,

45:08SPEAKERso they update those kind of sporadically all the time.

45:11SPEAKER- That's really, well, I started to say

45:13SPEAKERthat's really interesting that something as critical as SMB

45:15SPEAKERis not just built into the main interface,

45:17SPEAKERbut I guess maybe that's why is that they can iterate it

45:19SPEAKERfaster as a plugin.

45:21SPEAKER- I mean, I would guess it's the same reason

45:22SPEAKERthat Apple pulled the mail app

45:24SPEAKERfrom the main image install is so that they can update it

45:27SPEAKERindependently of the main OS, yeah.

45:30SPEAKERYou can also install Docker as a plugin.

45:34SPEAKERWe talked about it a little bit already.

45:35SPEAKERDocker kind of sucks, especially if you're used to jails.

45:38SPEAKER(laughing)

45:39SPEAKER- I mean, I don't have the experience to agree or disagree.

45:43SPEAKER- Okay, Docker doesn't suck.

45:45SPEAKERStop writing your angry letters.

45:47SPEAKERThe thing about Docker is it has its own,

45:50SPEAKERI've become accustomed to the inadequacies

45:55SPEAKERand kind of foibles and potential pitfalls of jails and BSD.

46:02SPEAKER- I think jails are pretty capable, personally.

46:04SPEAKER- I like jails a lot.

46:05SPEAKER- Jails are really good.

46:07SPEAKER- Yeah.

46:08SPEAKER- I wish Linux had anything as robust as,

46:12SPEAKERjail's been around for fucking ever.

46:13SPEAKERThey're like 20 years old.

46:14SPEAKERLike, they've had time to mature.

46:16SPEAKER- Yeah, and I have a lot of understanding

46:18SPEAKERof the places that they work well

46:19SPEAKERand the places that they don't

46:20SPEAKERand the things you have to do to work around

46:22SPEAKERthe things that they're bad at.

46:23SPEAKERI don't have that knowledge for Docker.

46:25SPEAKER- Yeah, I just, the declamatory way

46:28SPEAKERin which you expressed that feeling was very amusing to me.

46:31SPEAKERAnd I think there are plenty of people on the Discord

46:33SPEAKERwho might not disagree with you about Docker.

46:35SPEAKER- Here's the thing.

46:36SPEAKERProbably for the work that I do and what I use this for

46:39SPEAKERand the amount of hassle I want to deal with,

46:41SPEAKERmy solution is to put a hypervisor on another machine

46:44SPEAKERand just run VMs for whatever I want to do

46:46SPEAKERand not worry about Docker.

46:47SPEAKER- Yeah, do that.

46:50SPEAKER- Or I have to learn a lot more about Docker

46:52SPEAKERand I don't know that I,

46:53SPEAKERlike, I started going down some Docker tutorials

46:55SPEAKERand I was like, shit, I'm just typing stuff in

46:57SPEAKERand I have no idea what I'm doing and I hate that.

46:59SPEAKERLike, that's a bad feeling.

47:00SPEAKER- Right, like, yeah, I mean, I guess if you did

47:02SPEAKERa bunch of Docker stuff on this box,

47:04SPEAKERyou're kind of contravening your own philosophy, right?

47:06SPEAKEROf putting all the compute and services on something else.

47:10SPEAKER- Yeah, so the next step, that is the next step,

47:12SPEAKERis to replace, right now, Flanders is running with the SSD

47:16SPEAKERthat was the cache previously as a drive to do shit on.

47:23SPEAKERBut I do also have Plex running on the NAS.

47:27SPEAKERThe interesting thing is, like, that CPU supports Quick Sync

47:29SPEAKERand Plex theoretically should be able to use Quick Sync,

47:32SPEAKERwhich it looks like it's doing.

47:34SPEAKERThe performance for 1080p stuff is brilliant.

47:38SPEAKERIt's great, it's working fine.

47:40SPEAKERThe performance for 4K, anything 4K is bad

47:44SPEAKERunless everything is supported natively.

47:47SPEAKERSo, like, Plex for Windows, the application runs great.

47:53SPEAKERPlex in the browser, on any of the browsers I've tried,

47:56SPEAKERfor any 4K stuff, it has real performance problems.

47:58SPEAKER- I'm gonna tell you, as an occasional SmithFlix user,

48:02SPEAKEReven Flanders struggled a little bit with 4K stuff.

48:06SPEAKERAnd that was not, as far as I know, transcoding.

48:08SPEAKERThat was just trying to serve it as is.

48:11SPEAKERNot struggle, I shouldn't say struggled,

48:13SPEAKERbut there was quite a bit of buffering involved.

48:14SPEAKER- You never would have gotten 4K

48:16SPEAKERthat wasn't being transcoded from outside of the LAN.

48:19SPEAKERNo, I had it set to always turn that down

48:21SPEAKERto, like, 15 megabits.

48:23SPEAKER- Interesting, okay, that explains.

48:25SPEAKER- I wish, also, if you had told me that,

48:26SPEAKERI would have adjusted that.

48:27SPEAKERI didn't realize it was a problem.

48:29SPEAKER- That would be a fun experience.

48:31SPEAKERIt was, I only really only tried it

48:33SPEAKERto see how it would work.

48:35SPEAKER- So the other thing, the super secret thing,

48:38SPEAKERis that the 4K stuff is mostly not accessible

48:41SPEAKERto people that aren't in the house.

48:43SPEAKER- Fair, okay.

48:44SPEAKER- 'Cause, yeah, I haven't bought a ton of 4K disks

48:46SPEAKERjust 'cause they're a pain in the ass to rip.

48:48SPEAKER- Yeah, like I said, I didn't really,

48:50SPEAKERpartially because it took a lot of buffering,

48:53SPEAKERI didn't spend much actual time trying to watch 4K stuff.

48:55SPEAKERIt was more just out of curiosity.

48:57SPEAKER- Yeah.

48:59SPEAKERSo, yeah.

49:00SPEAKER- Sorry, sorry, not to interrupt just real quick.

49:03SPEAKERI don't have the exact answer here,

49:05SPEAKERbut I was reading about quicksand complex a little while back

49:08SPEAKERand specifically how to tell if it's working or not.

49:11SPEAKER- So in the dashboard, it shows on the transcode

49:14SPEAKERthat there's a little parentheses with HW

49:16SPEAKERafter the transcode thread.

49:18SPEAKER- That is exactly what I found,

49:19SPEAKERis that you have to look in the dashboard

49:20SPEAKERwhile somebody is streaming something

49:22SPEAKERand see if it says that or not.

49:23SPEAKER- Yeah, and it didn't, it seemed worse when that was on.

49:27SPEAKERSo.

49:28SPEAKER- So I don't know a ton, I can't speak in detail about this,

49:32SPEAKERbut like I said, I've been going through Intel chips

49:35SPEAKERand different skews, even in the same generation,

49:37SPEAKERhave different integrated GPUs

49:39SPEAKERand different versions of quicksync in them.

49:42SPEAKERAnd from generation to generation,

49:44SPEAKERthey also upgrade quicksync.

49:45SPEAKERSo I wonder if that being an older,

49:47SPEAKERboth a relatively low-end part

49:50SPEAKERand like three or four generations old,

49:51SPEAKERmaybe it's just that quicksync is not super up to snuff.

49:54SPEAKER- Well, so that machine isn't a super low-end part.

49:57SPEAKERIt's like a Broadwell E 5850.

49:59SPEAKER- I'm sorry, I was talking about the Celeron and the.

50:01SPEAKER- Oh, yeah, the Flanders one was a 5850, I think.

50:06SPEAKERAnd the Celeron, like it's entirely possible

50:10SPEAKERthe Celeron's just not capable of it.

50:12SPEAKER- Right, that's what I meant, yeah.

50:13SPEAKER- I tried, so before people start writing letters,

50:16SPEAKERI tried turning off subtitles.

50:21SPEAKERI tried using AC3 tracks.

50:23SPEAKERI tried using a video that I made with,

50:25SPEAKERjust has an AAC track.

50:27SPEAKERIt all has problems.

50:28SPEAKERI think it's the tone mapping, honestly,

50:30SPEAKER'cause Plex does tone mapping now for HDR to SDR TVs.

50:34SPEAKERAnd my guess is that that's the thing

50:36SPEAKERthat's causing the actual real issue,

50:37SPEAKER'cause that's kind of an expensive task

50:40SPEAKERthat as far as I know isn't really accelerated,

50:42SPEAKERespecially on the older.

50:47SPEAKERThis machine has an old CPU in it, frankly.

50:49SPEAKERThis is why I wanna have something

50:51SPEAKERthat's more capable for the compute-y stuff.

50:55SPEAKER- I am more and more convinced,

50:57SPEAKERthe more I try it, that auto-tone mapping,

50:58SPEAKERor even manual tone mapping that I've tried

51:01SPEAKERis just a sort of in a pinch feature.

51:03SPEAKERIt's like, well, if I really have to watch this thing

51:05SPEAKERon an SDR screen, this is better than nothing,

51:07SPEAKERbut it's never gonna be close to ideal,

51:09SPEAKER'cause the auto-tone mapping in Plex

51:11SPEAKERthat I've tried was not super great.

51:14SPEAKERI tried to do it by hand with FFmpeg

51:16SPEAKERa little bit here and there.

51:19SPEAKERIt's watchable, it's watchable.

51:20SPEAKER- Tone mapping's hard, tone mapping is hard.

51:23SPEAKERIt is an actual real skill that requires art

51:26SPEAKERand practice and talent.

51:29SPEAKER- Yes, we have at least one or two working colorists

51:33SPEAKERin film and TV on the Discord,

51:35SPEAKERwho I talked to a little bit about that.

51:37SPEAKERThey were like, "Yeah, this is not a fire and forget.

51:39SPEAKER"This is not like Handbrake,

51:40SPEAKER"where you're just re-encoding your Blu-rays."

51:42SPEAKERLike every single video, every movie is different.

51:46SPEAKERIt all requires training, deep understanding

51:50SPEAKERof how color works on a screen, et cetera, et cetera.

51:52SPEAKER- How vision works.

51:55SPEAKER- So I think my solution for this

51:56SPEAKERis the bad, least efficient solution,

51:59SPEAKERwhich is probably that I'm going to go dig the Blu-rays

52:04SPEAKERthat went with those 4K discs out of the garage

52:07SPEAKERand just rip them and have two versions of the same movie

52:10SPEAKERso it feeds the 1080p version, SDR version,

52:13SPEAKERto 1080p clients and the 4K version to 4K clients.

52:16SPEAKER- Oh, that just gets into how poorly Plex handles

52:19SPEAKERmultiple versions of the same movie.

52:20SPEAKERI mean, it's terrible.

52:21SPEAKER- It does okay, but you have to manually select them, I think.

52:25SPEAKER- Oh, well, not only that.

52:26SPEAKERYou can't differentiate what's what.

52:28SPEAKERYou can't name the different versions.

52:29SPEAKERIt will only describe the multiple versions

52:31SPEAKERby their resolution and bit rate, that's it.

52:34SPEAKER- Well, yeah, but it should work like Disney+,

52:37SPEAKERwhere when you click the button to play the movie,

52:39SPEAKERit just plays the one that's right for your TV.

52:40SPEAKERThat's what it should do now.

52:42SPEAKER- Well, I'm getting into weird situations

52:45SPEAKERwhere I've got "Harmy's" de-specialized "Star Wars"

52:48SPEAKERand also the 4K77 version of "Star Wars," you know what I mean?

52:51SPEAKERI'm like, those are both kind of the-

52:55SPEAKER- Yeah.

52:56SPEAKER- Or like I ripped my, I ripped,

52:59SPEAKERand I don't need to keep both these around in perpetuity,

53:01SPEAKERbut I ripped like the regular theatrical "Terminator 2"

53:03SPEAKERand also the kind of director's cut

53:04SPEAKERwith all the extra scenes in it.

53:06SPEAKER- The handling of director's cuts especially is bad.

53:09SPEAKER- Right, like play it like,

53:10SPEAKERyou can put both of those into the same bucket.

53:12SPEAKERThey both show up under "Terminator 2" and "Plex,"

53:14SPEAKERbut when you go to like other versions,

53:16SPEAKERit will just list two 1080p files at about the same bitrate.

53:21SPEAKERAnd I'm like, I fucking don't know which one is which.

53:22SPEAKER- Well, you see the file name, right?

53:25SPEAKER- No, no, no.

53:26SPEAKERWell, it may depend on the client.

53:27SPEAKERIt may depend on the endpoint that you're streaming to,

53:29SPEAKERbut on like the Roku app and the Xbox app,

53:31SPEAKERit only shows resolution and bitrate.

53:33SPEAKERSo there's no way to tell apart

53:34SPEAKERwhich one I'm actually watching.

53:36SPEAKER- Oh, the Apple TV shows runtime and file name, I think.

53:39SPEAKER- Okay, so that may just be a difference in client,

53:41SPEAKERbut there's also like, like "MB," for example,

53:44SPEAKERis probably the biggest competitor to "Plex" these days,

53:47SPEAKERwhich I've thought about messing with.

53:49SPEAKERLike that one, a little bit I messed with it.

53:50SPEAKERThat one, you can actually just like put a thing

53:53SPEAKERin the file name and it's like everything

53:54SPEAKERafter this character in the file name will show up

53:57SPEAKERas the name of this version in your library.

53:59SPEAKER- That's nice.

54:00SPEAKER- It's way smarter about stuff like that.

54:02SPEAKER"Plex" is a little clunky.

54:03SPEAKER- I feel like we're at a point where with "Plex"

54:06SPEAKERwhere the open source stuff is probably getting very close

54:09SPEAKERand I needed to spend some time

54:10SPEAKERlooking at the available options.

54:12SPEAKER- Yeah, the biggest problem I had with "MB" was,

54:14SPEAKERthis may have changed,

54:15SPEAKERbut they wouldn't let you trial apps on different devices

54:19SPEAKERand like actually stream to them

54:20SPEAKERwithout having the paid pass.

54:22SPEAKER- Or do they, is that how they make money for "MB?"

54:25SPEAKER- Well, yeah, I mean,

54:25SPEAKERit's like a "Plex" pass style business model,

54:27SPEAKERbut the thing is that, you know, like the "Plex" apps

54:29SPEAKERat least let you stream like, what is it?

54:30SPEAKER60 seconds before they cut you off?

54:33SPEAKER- Something like that.

54:33SPEAKER- Enough to know if it works, right?

54:35SPEAKERIt's like, I need to at least see what the quality

54:36SPEAKERof the apps that you have is

54:38SPEAKERbefore I think about giving you money.

54:40SPEAKERAnd like, that was, you know.

54:41SPEAKERAnd then there's Jellyfin is the fully open source

54:45SPEAKERkind of...

54:46SPEAKER- Kodi also too.

54:47SPEAKER- Yeah, Kodi, I mean, Kodi is pretty old school.

54:49SPEAKERI think it's got more of a kind of

54:51SPEAKERold school media library vibe to it.

54:53SPEAKERAnd as opposed to like a more "Plex" style thing, right?

54:57SPEAKER- For what it's worth, I like the design stuff

54:58SPEAKERthat they've done with the "Plex" over the last few years.

55:00SPEAKERI like, like, and honestly that discovery thing

55:02SPEAKERthat they added a couple of updates ago

55:05SPEAKERis surprisingly useful.

55:06SPEAKERYou just, you tell it which streaming services you have

55:09SPEAKERand it's like, hey, here's the things that are new

55:10SPEAKERon all of your streaming services.

55:12SPEAKER- Weird.

55:13SPEAKER- It's a surprisingly useful feature, I would say.

55:17SPEAKER- It pulls in other services now, huh?

55:19SPEAKER- It doesn't, you don't watch the stuff

55:21SPEAKERfrom inside that service.

55:22SPEAKERI think depending on the platform,

55:23SPEAKERI think it launches the app for the service.

55:25SPEAKER- Interesting.

55:26SPEAKER- And like deep links you into the...

55:27SPEAKERBut it's basically like, it's the same thing

55:29SPEAKERthat the Apple TV app does on the Apple TV boxes

55:33SPEAKERwhere it gives you like a landing page

55:34SPEAKERfor all of the stuff that's available on the platform

55:37SPEAKERat any given time.

55:38SPEAKERIt's not bad.

55:41SPEAKERSo yeah, I have to figure out better backup for this,

55:44SPEAKERfor Netty too, 'cause like right now

55:46SPEAKERit's just backing everything up to one large drive

55:48SPEAKERand there's, like, 'cause everything fits

55:51SPEAKERon one large drive right now, that won't last forever.

55:57SPEAKERBut yeah, I'm looking at like 12 or 15 gigs of free space

56:00SPEAKERon this thing and it's pretty nice.

56:01SPEAKERIt's spacious.

56:02SPEAKERI got room to move again, which is cool.

56:04SPEAKER- Terabytes.

56:05SPEAKER- Terabytes, I keep saying gigabytes.

56:07SPEAKERI'm sorry, I'm so tired.

56:08SPEAKER- It's okay.

56:09SPEAKER- The, okay, so total cost.

56:11SPEAKERThe box, the NAS box with no drives was 700 bucks,

56:16SPEAKERwhich I couldn't, I could build a machine

56:18SPEAKERthat was just about that price

56:20SPEAKERthat would be a little bit less capable

56:21SPEAKERand didn't have all the nice, like,

56:24SPEAKERhey, which drive is failing?

56:25SPEAKERIt's the one with the light flashing on the front,

56:27SPEAKERwhich it turns out is a really nice feature to have.

56:29SPEAKERSo you don't have to unplug five drives

56:30SPEAKERto figure out which one is the bad one.

56:34SPEAKERI did three drives in one storage pool.

56:37SPEAKERI have another drive that's the backup drive

56:39SPEAKERthat's just plugged in its own pool.

56:43SPEAKERAnd I didn't have to do any modifications

56:45SPEAKERto get those elements drives to work.

56:46SPEAKERYour mileage might vary

56:47SPEAKER'cause apparently there's different models

56:49SPEAKERand some of them you have to put a piece of like

56:50SPEAKERKapton tape over one of the pins on the SATA connector.

56:54SPEAKERI did not have to do that for any of the drives.

56:57SPEAKERAnd I usually plan to replace these drives

57:01SPEAKERafter three years.

57:02SPEAKERSo like the NAS drives come with a longer warranty,

57:05SPEAKERwhich is great if you actually use the warranty

57:07SPEAKERwhen the drives fail after four years.

57:09SPEAKERI generally don't get to the,

57:10SPEAKERI don't usually let them live long enough to fail

57:13SPEAKER'cause it's like, I don't like living that dangerously.

57:16SPEAKERAnd I didn't, I ran the tool that tells you

57:19SPEAKERwhat your M2 drive size should be.

57:22SPEAKERSo it basically does the thing that analyzes

57:24SPEAKERyour disk performance over a period of,

57:27SPEAKERit wants at least seven days, but I let it go for a month.

57:30SPEAKERAnd it says at the end, okay, you can do 128 gigabyte SSD.

57:34SPEAKERThat'll be fine.

57:35SPEAKERI haven't done that yet.

57:37SPEAKERI don't know that I need to for what I use the thing for.

57:39SPEAKER- Is that an, excuse me, is that an NVMe drive?

57:42SPEAKER- It's an M2 NVMe, yeah.

57:43SPEAKERAnd they, so here's a weird thing about Synology

57:46SPEAKERthat I didn't know is that they recommend

57:48SPEAKERspecific drives for everything.

57:51SPEAKERSo like if you put a drive that's not on their

57:52SPEAKERcompatibility list into the SSD,

57:54SPEAKERit's into the, into your drive bay,

57:56SPEAKERit's gonna go, yo, this isn't on our list.

57:59SPEAKERWe don't promise that everything's gonna work with this,

58:02SPEAKERbut it's fine.

58:02SPEAKERSame thing for the M2 drives.

58:04SPEAKER- They, I mean, this is a kind of separate topic.

58:07SPEAKERThey have, they have skirted some territory

58:09SPEAKERthat people have not been thrilled about

58:10SPEAKERin the last year or two about like approved drive,

58:14SPEAKERlike hard drives and stuff like that.

58:15SPEAKERI am maybe not quite as informed about this topic

58:19SPEAKERas I should be.

58:20SPEAKERThere, there was, there, there've been a couple of hububs

58:22SPEAKERon the discord about like, I think, I think in one case,

58:26SPEAKERthey pulled support for something from old models

58:30SPEAKERthat had previously had it, like patched it out,

58:33SPEAKERwhich people were very upset about.

58:34SPEAKERAnd then there was another case where they sort of gestured

58:37SPEAKERtoward the idea that you might have to get hard drives

58:39SPEAKERfrom them for certain models.

58:41SPEAKERSo I think they, I think they maybe walk that back.

58:43SPEAKER- So my understanding is that the hard drives,

58:45SPEAKERif you want, if you want a specific level of,

58:47SPEAKERof support and uptime guarantees and stuff like that

58:50SPEAKERon higher end, like business type NAS devices,

58:54SPEAKERyou have to buy off their compatibility list

58:56SPEAKERor buy directly from them.

58:58SPEAKERI don't, I'm not in that market.

59:00SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.

59:01SPEAKER- For users that doesn't, you don't worry about that.

59:03SPEAKERIt's my advice.

59:04SPEAKERAnd just to be clear, if you're in like a,

59:06SPEAKERif you're in like a three or four nines uptime,

59:09SPEAKERlike where you're saying, hey,

59:10SPEAKERwe're going to give you 99.999 or 9999 uptime services.

59:15SPEAKERYou're not buying your hard drives from Amazon

59:17SPEAKERto put in those devices.

59:19SPEAKERLike that's not how that side of the business works.

59:21SPEAKERSo same thing for sand stuff.

59:23SPEAKERSo like storage area network stuff is generally speaking,

59:26SPEAKERit's not, it's not an option for that kind of device.

59:31SPEAKER- We had some questions, questions,

59:33SPEAKERor if you have other questions, we can get into it.

59:35SPEAKER- Nope, I can, I can read these questions.

59:38SPEAKER- Yeah, go for it.

59:40SPEAKER- Here's one from Zubon.

59:42SPEAKERI think my major question is realistically,

59:43SPEAKERhow on top of replacing the drives do you need to be?

59:45SPEAKERAnd is there a warning if it detects a potential failure?

59:48SPEAKERI guess you kind of addressed that somewhat.

59:50SPEAKER- Well, okay.

59:51SPEAKERSo on the NAS boxes, on the true NAS box,

59:53SPEAKERevery time I've had a failure,

59:55SPEAKERI had bad sector warnings beforehand.

59:56SPEAKERI don't know if that's been the case for you, but.

59:59SPEAKER- I never had a drive fail.

1:00:00SPEAKER- Oh really?

1:00:01SPEAKER- Mine were starting to make weird noises

1:00:02SPEAKERwhen I replaced them this past spring.

1:00:04SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:00:05SPEAKER- Now I'm living in the horrible limbo where I can't,

1:00:08SPEAKERlike the board in that machine won't post.

1:00:11SPEAKERI don't know if the power supply was involved

1:00:13SPEAKERin the death of the machine or not.

1:00:16SPEAKERSo I don't know if my SAS card, my high-end network,

1:00:19SPEAKER40 gig network card, and all of the drives are okay.

1:00:23SPEAKERSo all the brand new fucking red pros

1:00:25SPEAKERI just bought like four months ago, I don't know.

1:00:27SPEAKERI don't know currently if those drives are alive or not.

1:00:30SPEAKER- So my guess is that all the hardware

1:00:33SPEAKERinside the board is fine.

1:00:35SPEAKERI would treat the, we talked about this

1:00:36SPEAKERon the patron episode, but my, from my perspective,

1:00:39SPEAKERthe power supply and the motherboard are both suspect.

1:00:41SPEAKER- Oh yeah, that goes without saying.

1:00:43SPEAKERI'm mostly worried about the drives

1:00:44SPEAKER'cause the drives are very expensive.

1:00:48SPEAKER- The drives are fine and they're also warranted.

1:00:50SPEAKERSo your phone, the worst thing is you would lose your data,

1:00:52SPEAKERwhich would be bad.

1:00:54SPEAKER- Oh, I've got the data's backed up.

1:00:55SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:00:58SPEAKERSee music.

1:00:59SPEAKER- Well, I was gonna say, I usually treat drives

1:01:00SPEAKERfor 24/7 use as three years.

1:01:04SPEAKERLike you start to think about replacing them

1:01:06SPEAKERafter three years and that's when I start looking

1:01:08SPEAKERfor deals on hard drives basically.

1:01:10SPEAKER- I had, I had a plain old reds before this

1:01:12SPEAKERand the warranty on those was three years,

1:01:14SPEAKERwhich of course is like great to get past that point.

1:01:17SPEAKERAnd then just right when you start worrying about them

1:01:18SPEAKERis when they're no longer warranted,

1:01:20SPEAKERbut the red pros are five, so.

1:01:22SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:01:23SPEAKER- I'm curious to see how that goes over the course

1:01:24SPEAKERof the next five years if I end up like RMAing a drive or not

1:01:27SPEAKER- Well, and I've warranted reds before

1:01:31SPEAKERwith Western Digital and like the experience was good.

1:01:36SPEAKERI had drive failures, I had sector failures on a drive

1:01:39SPEAKERthat was like two years old.

1:01:41SPEAKERI was able to give them my credit card

1:01:43SPEAKERand cross ship the drive.

1:01:44SPEAKERSo they sent me the drive and I just put my,

1:01:47SPEAKERI put that in the machine, copied this stuff

1:01:49SPEAKERoff the old drive, put it in the new one

1:01:50SPEAKERand sent it back and it was no problem.

1:01:52SPEAKERMy experience with Western Digital RMA's

1:01:55SPEAKERhas not been amazing.

1:01:56SPEAKER- You had a, yeah, you were at a bad time for RMA's.

1:01:59SPEAKER- Well, it's worse.

1:02:00SPEAKERI remember there was a single drive back, right?

1:02:03SPEAKER- Well, I bought, no, no, no, no, I bought a shingle drive

1:02:05SPEAKERand it was one I didn't, and then they replaced it

1:02:08SPEAKERwith a non-shingle drive.

1:02:10SPEAKERThe thing I was gonna say is I plugged that drive in

1:02:11SPEAKERwhen I got it to make sure it worked and it was fine.

1:02:14SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:02:14SPEAKER- Put it back in the static bag in the closet

1:02:17SPEAKERuntil like two months ago, pulled it back out,

1:02:19SPEAKERplugged it in, completely dead.

1:02:21SPEAKER100% dead and making some weird high-pitched sounds

1:02:25SPEAKERand super dead.

1:02:26SPEAKERSo it's not like you can't read the drive.

1:02:28SPEAKERIt's like the drive, I think that the electronics,

1:02:30SPEAKERlike the controller on the drive is dead

1:02:33SPEAKERbecause the system can't even see it in the BIOS.

1:02:35SPEAKERSo essentially they sent me, they RMA'd me a drive

1:02:39SPEAKERthat had zero life.

1:02:42SPEAKERIt's basically dead on arrival.

1:02:43SPEAKERSo I need to see if they'll replace it again,

1:02:45SPEAKERwhich I doubt.

1:02:48SPEAKER- But yeah, so plan to replace them at the end of three years

1:02:51SPEAKERwould be, start looking for new drives after three years.

1:02:54SPEAKERSo you have to factor that in your budget, right?

1:02:57SPEAKER- At least be vigilant.

1:02:58SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, my intent with this is for the NAS container

1:03:03SPEAKERto last for a pretty long time.

1:03:05SPEAKERLike two sets of drives at least would be my minimum

1:03:10SPEAKERand I would hope we could get three,

1:03:11SPEAKERwhich would put it at like 10 years

1:03:13SPEAKERwhen it's time to replace it.

1:03:14SPEAKERAnd then the other smaller, more powerful machine

1:03:18SPEAKERpotentially could be upgraded

1:03:19SPEAKERa little bit more often than that.

1:03:21SPEAKER- Yeah, CMUSIC asked about power draw and noise.

1:03:25SPEAKERI think you pretty much addressed that already.

1:03:27SPEAKER- Yeah, the power draw,

1:03:30SPEAKERif somebody sends a question in a couple of months,

1:03:32SPEAKERI'm gonna order when we're back a volt meter,

1:03:35SPEAKERa watt meter to plug in here,

1:03:37SPEAKERjust so we can kind of see what's going on with it.

1:03:39SPEAKERBut like 37 watts is way less than that FreeNAS machine is.

1:03:43SPEAKER- I'm sure. - Yeah.

1:03:44SPEAKER- For Xeon, yeah. - Yeah.

1:03:47SPEAKER- Bodisaurus, was this question truncated?

1:03:52SPEAKERI'm not sure, they say,

1:03:54SPEAKER"I'm thinking about putting it in my garage."

1:03:55SPEAKERIs that a Synology where they refer to something?

1:03:57SPEAKER- Synology, yeah. - From a previous message.

1:03:59SPEAKER- Yeah, I think so.

1:04:00SPEAKER- "But my garage is also incredibly dusty.

1:04:02SPEAKERAre there any special precautions I should take?

1:04:05SPEAKERAre there any concerns about keeping it warm?

1:04:07SPEAKERI live in Alaska and the garage gets down

1:04:09SPEAKERto the forties in the winter."

1:04:10SPEAKER- I think the forties is fine.

1:04:12SPEAKER- You think so, is that?

1:04:13SPEAKER- Forties, yeah forties, sure, sure.

1:04:16SPEAKER- The operating temperature's usually freezing

1:04:17SPEAKERto like 70 Fahrenheit or something.

1:04:20SPEAKER- Yeah, I was gonna say. - Or it's not 120 Fahrenheit,

1:04:22SPEAKERsorry.

1:04:23SPEAKER- Like below freezing is definitely a bit dodgier.

1:04:27SPEAKER- Yeah, I wouldn't wanna run it if it gets cold enough

1:04:28SPEAKERthat you gotta worry about like lubricants getting viscous.

1:04:36SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:04:37SPEAKER- But other than that, I think you're fine.

1:04:38SPEAKER- Yeah, super, pretty robust, pretty hardy and hail.

1:04:41SPEAKER- And I would say garage is fine.

1:04:43SPEAKERYou can access the places where dust

1:04:45SPEAKERare gonna build up on the fan, just keep it clean.

1:04:49SPEAKERKeep it clean, keep it clean, normal.

1:04:52SPEAKER- There you go.

1:04:53SPEAKER- So that's it, that's the sonology.

1:04:54SPEAKER- Hey, I'm happy for you in the life you've chosen.

1:04:57SPEAKER- Thanks, Brad, I'm so glad.

1:04:59SPEAKERI'm sorry, look, I didn't, it's not you.

1:05:03SPEAKERIt's just the amount of time I have to put into it, honestly.

1:05:07SPEAKER- That's fair, I get it.

1:05:09SPEAKERHey, Flanders is dead, long live Nettie.

1:05:12SPEAKER- Yeah, Nettie for life, baby.

1:05:16SPEAKERIt's so small, it's itsy bitsy.

1:05:18SPEAKERIt's like a pizza, it's like a bread box.

1:05:20SPEAKER- I see the, I see the, I started my whole NAS thing,

1:05:24SPEAKERstarted off with plans to buy a sonology.

1:05:27SPEAKER- Yeah, and I mean, here's the thing.

1:05:30SPEAKERIf I were starting from now,

1:05:32SPEAKERI think this is a good place to get in,

1:05:35SPEAKERbut I would also immediately run out of run,

1:05:37SPEAKERI would've run out of runway on the CPU performance

1:05:39SPEAKERon this thing within about 10 minutes of getting it.

1:05:41SPEAKER- Sure.

1:05:42SPEAKER- So either I would not get the one

1:05:45SPEAKERthat has the seller on,

1:05:46SPEAKERlike I would get the one with the actual real CPU in it,

1:05:49SPEAKERor, alternately, I would plan out of the gate

1:05:52SPEAKERto do something stupid and spend another few hundred bucks

1:05:54SPEAKERon another small computer to do the compute stuff on.

1:05:57SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, I'm curious to hear down the line

1:05:59SPEAKERhow your, like what your compute node ends up being

1:06:02SPEAKERand how that goes.

1:06:03SPEAKER- Yeah, it's tough, like I looked at NUCs,

1:06:05SPEAKERthe Intel NUC machines, the little box ones,

1:06:08SPEAKERand they're such a mess,

1:06:09SPEAKER'cause they sell them to like screwdriver shops,

1:06:13SPEAKERand then you have to figure out

1:06:15SPEAKERlike which bundle you want from them,

1:06:18SPEAKERand like they're all over,

1:06:19SPEAKERlike they're everything from like machines

1:06:21SPEAKERthat are designed to like be stuck behind a monitor

1:06:24SPEAKERin a hospital room all the way down to like actual,

1:06:27SPEAKERlike real, like little computers

1:06:29SPEAKERthat can actually do some real compute on 'em,

1:06:32SPEAKERand like I don't wanna spend 1200 bucks on that,

1:06:35SPEAKERbut I also want something that's reasonably capable,

1:06:37SPEAKERso I might actually just build something for that,

1:06:41SPEAKERI haven't decided yet, but anyway.

1:06:44SPEAKERBuild like an ITX machine that I can put a small GPU in

1:06:47SPEAKERto do some GPU transcoding stuff on.

1:06:49SPEAKER- If we've got like an old 1080 laying around or something.

1:06:52SPEAKER- Yeah, I have a 1060 TI that is maybe viable for that.

1:06:57SPEAKERAnyway, we'll see.

1:06:59SPEAKERIt's not urgent.

1:07:01SPEAKERFlanders will continue working in that capacity

1:07:03SPEAKERfor the time being.

1:07:04SPEAKER- Fair, okay, I guess Flanders is not totally dead yet.

1:07:07SPEAKER- Yeah, so Flanders was booting off of an SSD

1:07:09SPEAKERand not off of a thumb drive,

1:07:11SPEAKERand the other SSD is serving as storage now

1:07:14SPEAKERfor the work that it does.

1:07:16SPEAKER- Fair.

1:07:17SPEAKER- This is, Brad, we've reached the end of the podcast.

1:07:20SPEAKERYou know what we do at the end of podcasts?

1:07:22SPEAKER- Let's go crack a cold one,

1:07:24SPEAKER'cause it's 4th of July, baby, wee.

1:07:26SPEAKER- Woo, we thank our patrons also.

1:07:29SPEAKER- Oh, thank you, patrons, for allowing us to buy that beer.

1:07:33SPEAKER- Thank you, patrons, we appreciate you.

1:07:35SPEAKERIf you would like to find out how to support

1:07:37SPEAKERBrad and Will Made a TechPod, which is a 100%

1:07:40SPEAKERlistener-supported show, just like America,

1:07:43SPEAKER100% taxpayer-funded.

1:07:46SPEAKER- Sure.

1:07:47SPEAKER- I don't know, I was trying to make it,

1:07:49SPEAKERI was trying to get in the spirit of the holiday, but.

1:07:51SPEAKER- I'm not feeling the spirit, particularly right now.

1:07:55SPEAKER- You, you can find out how to support the show

1:07:58SPEAKERby going to patreon.com/techpod.

1:08:01SPEAKERThat's patreon.com/techpod.

1:08:04SPEAKERAnd for as little as two bucks a month,

1:08:05SPEAKERyou too can support our podcast,

1:08:10SPEAKERwhere we do this every week.

1:08:11SPEAKERAnd if you pay five bucks a month,

1:08:13SPEAKERyou get a patron episode every month,

1:08:14SPEAKERwhich this month, like we did,

1:08:16SPEAKERwe got into some real command line business

1:08:18SPEAKERat the end of that one, that was a weird show.

1:08:19SPEAKER- That was a real time verbal walkthrough

1:08:22SPEAKERof some permission fiddling, I guess.

1:08:26SPEAKER- Yeah, but hey, it worked.

1:08:28SPEAKER- I introduced you to HTOP in real time.

1:08:31SPEAKER- HTOP, it turns out is way better than PSA UX, who knew?

1:08:34SPEAKERYou were like, wow, look at all those colors.

1:08:35SPEAKERAnd it's just navigable with keyboard,

1:08:37SPEAKERlike the arrow key is, wow.

1:08:38SPEAKER- It was really, I've used it three times

1:08:41SPEAKERsince you introduced me to HTOP.

1:08:43SPEAKER- It looks cool.

1:08:45SPEAKERIt is very useful.

1:08:47SPEAKERYou can customize it.

1:08:47SPEAKERGo try, try going into the settings at some point

1:08:49SPEAKERand see the top, top display where it shows all the cores

1:08:53SPEAKERand the uptime and the cache saturation, all that stuff.

1:08:55SPEAKERYou can, there are a bunch more of those units built in

1:08:58SPEAKERthat you can add that aren't enabled by default.

1:09:00SPEAKER- Hold on, we can't give any more of this content.

1:09:01SPEAKERThis is, this is patron episode con.

1:09:03SPEAKERHTOP is exclusively limited to the patron episode.

1:09:06SPEAKER- All right, next month, Tmux.

1:09:10SPEAKER- But yeah, thank you to all of our patrons, including,

1:09:13SPEAKERI realized we didn't probably do our associate producer

1:09:19SPEAKERto your patrons on the last episode

1:09:22SPEAKERbecause I didn't realize it was the last episode

1:09:23SPEAKERof the month.

1:09:24SPEAKERSo we'll do it here too.

1:09:25SPEAKER- Yeah, we better fix that.

1:09:26SPEAKERWell, it's, I mean, we're recording this on the 1st of July.

1:09:28SPEAKERSo we're right around the end of the month.

1:09:30SPEAKERClose enough, thank you as always to our executive producer

1:09:34SPEAKERto your patrons, including Andrew Slosky,

1:09:37SPEAKERPaddle Creek Games, Makers of Fractured Veil,

1:09:39SPEAKERJacob Chapel, James Cammock, Joel Krauska, Just Wedge,

1:09:43SPEAKEROcto Thorp Bunny Crimes, Twinkies in Badge Life Mode,

1:09:49SPEAKERand Twinkies in Badge Life Mode.

1:09:51SPEAKERBy the way, that Totoro badge, pretty good Twinkie.

1:09:56SPEAKERAnd a very special thank you to our associate producer

1:09:59SPEAKERto your patrons, including Andre M. Burke, Arthur Gies,

1:10:02SPEAKERDave Ullian, Eric Klein, Graham Banks, Jad Rita,

1:10:06SPEAKERJason Neeland, Jay Mabey, Nathan Phelps, Steve Lin,

1:10:09SPEAKERThomas Shea, and Travis Rosner.

1:10:12SPEAKERThank you all so much.

1:10:13SPEAKERWe really appreciate it.

1:10:14SPEAKER- We do.

1:10:16SPEAKER- And I guess that'll do it for us this week.

1:10:18SPEAKERI'm gonna be in Palm Desert next week when we talk.

1:10:20SPEAKER- Enjoy, enjoy the drive down.

1:10:22SPEAKERI will be continuing to sift through motherboards

1:10:24SPEAKERand trying to buy a whole new computer stuff.

1:10:27SPEAKER- We still have those DS1522s down at Central Computer.

1:10:31SPEAKER- Dude, I cannot find an LGA 1700 board in micro ATX

1:10:36SPEAKERwith IPMI or Intel AMT to see if it saved my life.

1:10:40SPEAKER- Like having a remote console into that board

1:10:42SPEAKERwould make my life much easier.

1:10:44SPEAKER- That's exactly what I want.

1:10:45SPEAKERI want remote admin, I want out of band management.

1:10:49SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:10:49SPEAKER- And I cannot have it, and it's killing me.

1:10:51SPEAKER- Who doesn't?

1:10:52SPEAKERWe all want out of band management, Brad.

1:10:53SPEAKER- It's the American dream.

1:10:55SPEAKER- Yeah, you're just in band, in band for life.

1:11:00SPEAKERAnyway, see you all next week.

1:11:00SPEAKERThanks for listening, bye.