00:00SPEAKER- Look, I'm trying to try it, okay?
00:02SPEAKER- It is so luscious, Brad.
00:03SPEAKERIt's flowing locks, you look like Sharon Stone
00:07SPEAKERin sliver, I think, is the thing I would say.
00:09SPEAKER- Okay, well, as long as it's sliver
00:11SPEAKERand not basic instinct, I guess I'm okay.
00:13SPEAKER- Well, look, your shoulder's up,
00:15SPEAKERso I don't know if it's a basic instinct situation here.
00:17SPEAKER- Man, we're old.
00:20SPEAKERI don't normally shower in the mornings,
00:22SPEAKERbut circumstances necessitated it.
00:24SPEAKERAlso, I just washed it.
00:26SPEAKER- But what's your, like two washes and a little conditioner?
00:29SPEAKERIs that where you're at these days?
00:30SPEAKER- We were in a hurry, we had to record this podcast
00:32SPEAKERbefore other work started for the day.
00:34SPEAKER- It's very, it's less long than I was expecting, actually.
00:37SPEAKERDid you trim?
00:38SPEAKER- Well, can you see all the way to the bottom?
00:39SPEAKER- Oh, okay, no, nevermind, it keeps going.
00:42SPEAKER- It's like halfway down my chest now.
00:44SPEAKER- Just be happy that you still have a lot on the top.
00:46SPEAKERThe thing that's happened to me during the pandemic
00:47SPEAKERis it's thinned out a lot.
00:49SPEAKERI don't know if it's stress or...
00:51SPEAKER- You know, I know where you're coming from.
00:53SPEAKER- I hopped on FaceTime with my mom a few weeks ago
00:55SPEAKERand she was like, "You have my dad's hairline now."
00:58SPEAKER- Oh, no.
00:59SPEAKER- And I was like, "Oh crap, you're right."
01:00SPEAKERAnd like, and I do the thing that he did too
01:02SPEAKERwhen I was a kid, 'cause I'm like, I realize this.
01:05SPEAKERI'm like, at this point I'm like eight years younger
01:08SPEAKERthan I remember my, like when I went the age
01:10SPEAKERthat I first remember my grandparents were when I was a kid.
01:16SPEAKERAnd my grandfather used to do this thing
01:17SPEAKERwhere he'd take one arm off of his glasses
01:19SPEAKERand dangle it down so he could see stuff,
01:21SPEAKER'cause he was nearsighted.
01:21SPEAKERSo if he wanted to see like something small,
01:23SPEAKERlike a watch or something,
01:24SPEAKERhe'd get it real close to his eyeballs
01:26SPEAKERand just pull his glasses off,
01:27SPEAKERbut dangle it on one arm.
01:28SPEAKERAnd I do that all the time now.
01:30SPEAKERSo we truly become our parents and our grandparents,
01:33SPEAKERwhich is grim.
01:34SPEAKER- It happens to everybody.
01:36SPEAKERHello, it's early.
01:37SPEAKERI'm here with my sleepy voice and my-
01:39SPEAKER- That looks gross.
01:40SPEAKER- My bottle of grass clippings.
01:42SPEAKER- Is it chlorophyll or something?
01:43SPEAKERWhat are you, do you have, are you Iron Man 2?
01:46SPEAKERIs that where you're at?
01:47SPEAKER- Isn't there chlorophyll in everything?
01:49SPEAKER- Everything green.
01:54SPEAKERI went through a green smoothie phase,
01:55SPEAKERa green juice phase for a brief period.
01:58SPEAKERAnd yeah, no, I backed out.
02:02SPEAKERYou're making a face.
02:03SPEAKER- Okay, there's definitely kale in here.
02:05SPEAKER- Yeah, that's a minus.
02:07SPEAKER- Maybe some chard or something?
02:09SPEAKER- Swiss or other?
02:10SPEAKER- Probably Swiss.
02:11SPEAKER- I like a Swiss chard.
02:12SPEAKER- We've been hitting the farmer's market a lot lately.
02:15SPEAKERWe've got excess greens.
02:16SPEAKER- I grill a Swiss chard a lot.
02:18SPEAKER- Whoa.
02:19SPEAKER- I like a grilled chard.
02:20SPEAKER- Wow.
02:21SPEAKER- Yeah.
02:22SPEAKER- Like whole leaf?
02:23SPEAKER- Just a little bit, just for,
02:24SPEAKERyou put on a little olive oil and salt and pepper,
02:25SPEAKERjust for a second.
02:26SPEAKERAnd it kind of, it makes it less bitter.
02:28SPEAKER- That's gotta be like whole leaf, right?
02:30SPEAKER- Yeah, I just put the whole head on usually.
02:32SPEAKER- Big old stalk.
02:33SPEAKER- Yeah, yep.
02:34SPEAKERWe, I'm away from home.
02:39SPEAKERSo I am being lazy and I just bought
02:43SPEAKERsome Stumptown cold brew at the grocery store.
02:45SPEAKER- What?
02:46SPEAKER- And.
02:47SPEAKER- I thought I knew you.
02:48SPEAKER- Poured that in and I'm gonna go and tell you pretty good.
02:52SPEAKERI'm happy with my choices.
02:54SPEAKER- Stumptown?
02:55SPEAKER- Stumptown, it's a roaster from Portland, I think.
03:00SPEAKEROne of the famous early third wave coffee roasters
03:02SPEAKERup there with like Intelligentsia and Ritual
03:05SPEAKERand those guys.
03:07SPEAKER- These roaster names are getting out of control.
03:09SPEAKER- No, Stumptown is like a nickname for Portland.
03:13SPEAKER- Okay, fine.
03:14SPEAKERIntelligentsia, I don't know.
03:16SPEAKER- Look, Intelligentsia is from Chicago.
03:17SPEAKERThey're a little snooty.
03:18SPEAKER- Yes, well, as we know, they'll be the first to go.
03:24SPEAKER(upbeat music)
03:52SPEAKER- Welcome to "Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod."
03:54SPEAKERI'm Will.
03:55SPEAKER- I am Brad.
03:56SPEAKER- Hello.
03:57SPEAKER- Brad, I got an email last night sent to an address
04:00SPEAKERassociated with this podcast pitching a guest
04:04SPEAKERfor the Maximum PC No BS podcast,
04:08SPEAKERwhich I have not been on at this point
04:09SPEAKERin 12 and a half years.
04:11SPEAKER- Wow, also nor is that email address associated
04:14SPEAKERwith that podcast in any way whatsoever.
04:16SPEAKER- Nor has it ever been associated with this email,
04:18SPEAKERthis podcast, nor has that podcast existed
04:21SPEAKERfor at least seven or eight years at this point.
04:23SPEAKER- That one's the crazy one.
04:25SPEAKER- Yeah.
04:25SPEAKER- Try to book a guest on a show
04:26SPEAKERthat has been gone almost a decade.
04:28SPEAKER- I'm gonna, first things first,
04:30SPEAKERI need to revive the show.
04:33SPEAKERAnd then I'm gonna get your,
04:35SPEAKERI don't even wanna talk about what it was,
04:37SPEAKERbut like that stuff happens
04:39SPEAKER'cause somebody buys a list, I think.
04:40SPEAKERAnd then the list hasn't been updated
04:42SPEAKERor it was partially updated or whatever.
04:44SPEAKER- They got taken for a ride.
04:45SPEAKER- Yeah.
04:46SPEAKER- The list was worthless.
04:48SPEAKER- Wait, what if we brought that podcast back as a front?
04:52SPEAKER- Welcome to the "No BS" podcast, I'm Will.
04:54SPEAKERIt's for the, oh, no, we did the date.
04:56SPEAKERIt was welcome to the "No BS" podcast
04:58SPEAKERfor the week of Jan, July 10th, 2022.
05:02SPEAKERDon, we had good theme music for that.
05:04SPEAKERJeremy Williams did that music for us, as I recall.
05:06SPEAKER- I mean, I need a new computer.
05:08SPEAKERWhat if we just like start hitting up like AMD
05:11SPEAKERand Intel, like get them to send us stuff?
05:13SPEAKER- We have a podcast about technology.
05:16SPEAKERWe can just do that.
05:17SPEAKERWe don't need to make a front podcast for that, Brad.
05:19SPEAKER- I guess, I don't know.
05:20SPEAKERSometimes I feel like the name of this podcast
05:22SPEAKERmakes it a little difficult to do outreach.
05:24SPEAKER- Because it's Brad and Will, because we're too congenial.
05:28SPEAKER- Remember that time we went to that Microsoft dinner
05:29SPEAKERand they had the little name cards at the table.
05:33SPEAKER- That was the last thing I did before the pandemic.
05:35SPEAKER- Yeah, same.
05:36SPEAKERAnd it had the full name of the podcast on there.
05:38SPEAKERIt felt a little strange about it.
05:40SPEAKER- Well, I mean, look, there's like we're from the,
05:44SPEAKERthat just means we're hip and with it like the young kids.
05:47SPEAKERIt means we're being personable
05:50SPEAKERand we're putting our brands forward instead of behind.
05:53SPEAKERLike it's not like 2004 when we were trying to,
05:56SPEAKERwe're on the internet and you're trying to be a magazine,
05:58SPEAKERbut every day.
05:59SPEAKER- You know, there's nothing that people who are hip
06:01SPEAKERand with it say more often than how hip and with it they are.
06:04SPEAKER- Yeah, exactly.
06:05SPEAKERI often, I should make a t-shirt that says,
06:07SPEAKER"I am Will, I'm hip and with it."
06:10SPEAKERWhat are we talking about today, Brad?
06:12SPEAKER- You are on your annual pilgrimage to the desert once again.
06:17SPEAKER- Yeah, like last year we escaped during fire season
06:20SPEAKERand then fire season mostly just blew to the East coast,
06:23SPEAKERwhich was, I mean, pros and cons, still fire season.
06:26SPEAKER- Are they having fires now?
06:29SPEAKER- I mean, there's always fires, it's California,
06:31SPEAKERbut nothing bad yet.
06:33SPEAKER- Oh, you mean like the smoke,
06:35SPEAKERthe output blew to the East coast.
06:36SPEAKER- Yeah, last year, instead of blowing to the West
06:39SPEAKERwhere we live, the smoke just blew East
06:41SPEAKERand it ruined summer for Chicago and New York
06:44SPEAKERand people in the Northern United States.
06:46SPEAKER- Oh yeah, I have relatives in North Carolina
06:48SPEAKERwere complaining to me about the smoke.
06:50SPEAKERIf it was my doing somehow.
06:52SPEAKER- Yeah, but sorry our state is on fire.
06:54SPEAKERIt's totally, I'm sorry it's an inconvenience for you.
07:00SPEAKERThis year we just, Gina sent a message
07:03SPEAKERto the woman who owns the place and was like,
07:04SPEAKER"Hey, do you have any availability?"
07:06SPEAKERAnd she was like, "Yeah, you can come down in two weeks."
07:08SPEAKERSo we came down in two weeks, here we are.
07:10SPEAKER- Now it's two weeks later.
07:11SPEAKER- It's two and a half, yeah.
07:13SPEAKER- And you're back in Palm desert.
07:14SPEAKER- We're back in Palm desert.
07:15SPEAKERI have a hundred megabit fiber,
07:16SPEAKERwhich it turns out you can saturate pretty easily.
07:20SPEAKER- Wait, hang on, a hundred megabit fiber?
07:22SPEAKER- A hundred megabit fiber.
07:23SPEAKER- Interesting, is that, I mean,
07:24SPEAKERthat's just gotta be like an arbitrary speed limit, right?
07:26SPEAKERLike normally.
07:27SPEAKER- Oh yeah, a hundred percent.
07:28SPEAKER- Speeds in the hundred megabit category are usually cable
07:31SPEAKERor even, I guess copper doesn't go that high, does it?
07:35SPEAKER- Copper can go.
07:38SPEAKER- Like DSL, I don't even,
07:39SPEAKERwhat is even the modern incarnation
07:40SPEAKERof a copper internet connection, is it?
07:42SPEAKER- DSL probably, right?
07:43SPEAKER- Still some form of DSL?
07:44SPEAKER- Well, DSL cable's copper too.
07:46SPEAKER- Oh yeah, yeah, I guess I don't know like copper phone lines
07:48SPEAKERnot cable, coax is what I would call cable.
07:52SPEAKER- Yeah, it's, I mean, you can't do DSL super fast still.
08:01SPEAKERLike DSL still caps out at like a hundred megabit probably.
08:04SPEAKER- Yeah, that sounds-
08:05SPEAKER- I don't even know what DSL caps out at actually.
08:06SPEAKER- The plans, I was looking around where my parents live
08:09SPEAKERjust for shits into giggles to see
08:12SPEAKERwhat was available in that area.
08:13SPEAKERAnd all the DSL plans I saw were like 25 megabit down.
08:17SPEAKER- Yeah, DSL is five to 35 megabits
08:20SPEAKERis what the internet's telling me.
08:21SPEAKER- Okay, yes, that attracts.
08:23SPEAKER- And uploads are slow, one to 10 megabits.
08:25SPEAKER- Anyway, you usually see fiber connections advertised
08:28SPEAKERat least into the hundreds of megabits.
08:29SPEAKERSo a hundred, that's just gotta be an ISP cap, right?
08:32SPEAKER- My guess is that they're on there,
08:34SPEAKERthey're like, this is a vacation house for them.
08:35SPEAKERAnd they're like, hey, here is the $20 a month plan
08:38SPEAKERversus the $50 a month plan.
08:41SPEAKER- A hundred megabits is more than enough
08:42SPEAKERfor you to put on Netflix and put your kids in front of it
08:44SPEAKERso that you can have 10 minutes a piece.
08:47SPEAKER- Yeah, and it turns out it's pretty good.
08:49SPEAKERAnd it's a hundred megabits upload, which is-
08:51SPEAKER- Oh.
08:51SPEAKER- Realistically, what I care about more
08:53SPEAKERis upload at this point.
08:54SPEAKERAs long as the download is enough
08:55SPEAKERthat Netflix doesn't choke out the internet connection,
08:58SPEAKERhaving decent upload is super important.
09:00SPEAKERIt turns out for me specifically.
09:02SPEAKER- Yes, we live a strange existence.
09:04SPEAKER- Yeah.
09:05SPEAKER- That upstream matters that much, but you know.
09:07SPEAKER- The, so yeah, we packed up the Bolt, we drove down,
09:14SPEAKERI got a new, I got an accessory for the Bolt.
09:18SPEAKER- Wait, real quick, I'll back up.
09:19SPEAKERI guess the idea for this episode
09:22SPEAKERis sort of a loose discussion of like working remotely,
09:25SPEAKERtraveling and packing tech and-
09:28SPEAKER- Yeah.
09:29SPEAKER- Is that right?
09:29SPEAKER- What's the stuff we do to make traveling remotely
09:32SPEAKERand being able to, 'cause like,
09:33SPEAKERthis is a working trip for me.
09:35SPEAKERLike the kiddo and my wife are hanging out at the pool
09:37SPEAKERand doing stuff during the day.
09:39SPEAKERI'm here toiling away in the video game mines
09:42SPEAKERand the podcast mines, just like always.
09:44SPEAKER- I mean, yeah, you packed basically an entire office
09:47SPEAKERand took it with you.
09:48SPEAKER- I have all of the stuff that I need to do podcast
09:50SPEAKERand to play games for work here, yeah, and stream also.
09:55SPEAKER- And you've got a year of experience under your belt
09:57SPEAKER'cause you worked from that exact same bedroom last year.
09:59SPEAKER- It's much easier.
10:01SPEAKERIt was much easier this go round, yeah, absolutely.
10:05SPEAKER- What have you learned?
10:07SPEAKER- So, well, okay, so first off,
10:11SPEAKERif you're just going on vacation someplace
10:12SPEAKERand you don't have to work,
10:14SPEAKERand like I remain envious of people
10:16SPEAKERwho can like use a laptop for work,
10:19SPEAKERbecause again, when we're testing dev builds
10:22SPEAKERand stuff like that and grabbing screenshots
10:24SPEAKERand stuff from that,
10:25SPEAKERI not only need to like have access to a real computer,
10:28SPEAKERbut I need something that can run at like 4K 60
10:30SPEAKERin case we need to grab footage from the game.
10:33SPEAKERWe have a little bit more help with that this year
10:34SPEAKERthan we did previously, but still,
10:37SPEAKERit's like you need a real computer.
10:38SPEAKERI need a real computer.
10:39SPEAKERI can't do the laptop for this.
10:43SPEAKERSo I bring the desktop
10:45SPEAKERand basically when we load up the bolt,
10:47SPEAKERwhat I do is put all the computer stuff,
10:50SPEAKERlike there's a little secret compartment
10:51SPEAKERunderneath the main floor in the back of the car.
10:54SPEAKERUnder that is all the computer crap.
10:56SPEAKER- Wait, that's where you run your moonshine.
10:59SPEAKER- Look, moonshine's legal now,
11:01SPEAKERso we don't have to worry about it, you know.
11:03SPEAKER- I have a family member who went to county jail
11:06SPEAKERfor that very thing.
11:08SPEAKER- What, really?
11:09SPEAKERIn the 21st century?
11:10SPEAKER- No, during prohibition.
11:12SPEAKER- Oh, oh, oh, yeah, I mean, look.
11:14SPEAKER- And a much older family member who's no longer-
11:16SPEAKER- We all know people who had,
11:19SPEAKERwe know multiple people who have family history there.
11:22SPEAKER- That the family apocrypha is that he took it down
11:25SPEAKERto the factory and sold it to the workers
11:27SPEAKERgetting off the shift.
11:29SPEAKER- I can see that, it seems like a good call.
11:30SPEAKERLike you take your mason jars out
11:32SPEAKERand you're back at the old family truckster.
11:37SPEAKERThere were definitely valleys when I was a kid near Bristol
11:40SPEAKERthat we were not allowed to drive down.
11:42SPEAKER- Interesting.
11:43SPEAKER- Yeah, like a friend of mine had a vacation house
11:45SPEAKERout in the wilderness,
11:48SPEAKERand like you could go as far as his house,
11:50SPEAKERbut once the road turned to gravel,
11:51SPEAKERyou weren't allowed to drive down it anymore,
11:52SPEAKER'cause that's where you get to the moonshiners.
11:54SPEAKER- That's where the ill shit goes down.
11:56SPEAKER- Yeah, it's where people ain't coming back the same.
12:01SPEAKER- I mean, there's a, I may have mentioned it before,
12:03SPEAKERthere's a still in the family.
12:05SPEAKER- Yeah.
12:06SPEAKER- There's a still still in the family.
12:07SPEAKER- Yeah, you have a family still, that's nice.
12:09SPEAKERThat's convenient.
12:10SPEAKER- A still that was operated in the woods
12:11SPEAKERfor quite a few years has now been like shined up
12:14SPEAKERand is now serving as like landscaping decoration.
12:17SPEAKER- Well, my parents bought this place
12:19SPEAKERbefore I was born in Hickory Tree,
12:20SPEAKER'cause they were realtors then,
12:22SPEAKERand they would like, if they saw something and say that,
12:24SPEAKERlike they would just buy it and hold onto it,
12:26SPEAKER'cause land was cheap in Bristol at the time.
12:28SPEAKERAnd they bought a place with a little creek
12:30SPEAKERand a dam on it, and when they were digging up
12:33SPEAKERto fix the dam, they dug up a buried still
12:37SPEAKERand a bunch of moonshine, yeah.
12:39SPEAKER- Wow, wait, in the jar?
12:41SPEAKER- In the jars, in the jugs.
12:42SPEAKER- Dude, like buried under dirt?
12:44SPEAKER- Buried under a little bit of leaves and dirt, yeah.
12:47SPEAKER- Holy crap.
12:48SPEAKER- Yeah, this was like 40 years ago,
12:49SPEAKERso it's safe to talk about now.
12:52SPEAKER- Any sign, I mean, it'd be tough to date,
12:53SPEAKERbut any sign at all how old it was?
12:55SPEAKER- They left it out and it went away, so fairly fresh.
12:59SPEAKER- Okay.
12:59SPEAKER- They left it out so they didn't get shot.
13:01SPEAKER- Uh-huh, I see, I see.
13:04SPEAKER- Yeah, there were fresh signs of use
13:05SPEAKERas my father described it.
13:07SPEAKER- Oh, okay, okay, this is not like a previous generation.
13:10SPEAKER- No, this was like the hiding spot
13:12SPEAKERfor somebody who was squatting on somebody.
13:14SPEAKER'Cause like the move, I can't believe
13:16SPEAKERwe're talking about this, but the move, as I understand it,
13:18SPEAKERis that you would never put the still up on your own land
13:20SPEAKERbecause then it can be traced back to you, right?
13:22SPEAKERYou put the still up, you go squat
13:24SPEAKERon a neighbor's hill someplace
13:26SPEAKERand you set up your shed over there.
13:28SPEAKERAnd then it's like if you're planting weed
13:30SPEAKERin the corn fields,
13:31SPEAKERyou don't plant the weed in your corn field,
13:33SPEAKERyou plant it in your neighbor's corn field
13:34SPEAKERso that then they have plausible deniability.
13:36SPEAKER- Everybody knows that.
13:37SPEAKER- Yeah, it's just common sense.
13:39SPEAKERSo anyway, yeah, that's my,
13:45SPEAKERI have a disturbing number of moonshine stories
13:47SPEAKERwhen I think about it, but I'm gonna move on.
13:48SPEAKER- Same, anyway.
13:50SPEAKER- We, so, okay, so we drove down in the bolt,
13:53SPEAKERit's a small car, we are bringing a month worth of crap.
13:56SPEAKERBut the nice thing about coming to the desert
13:57SPEAKERis basically I have like three pairs of shorts
14:00SPEAKERand like five t-shirts and that's pretty much what I need.
14:04SPEAKERIt's a dry hoodie if it gets cold in the house.
14:06SPEAKER- It's a dry heat, right?
14:07SPEAKER- Yeah, it is a very dry heat.
14:11SPEAKERBut we got, I got an ODB adapter
14:14SPEAKERwhich plugs into like the data port for the car.
14:16SPEAKER- Okay.
14:17SPEAKER- And so one of the things that annoys me about the bolt
14:20SPEAKERis you don't get like battery stats through carplay.
14:24SPEAKERSo like, you know what the battery percentage is
14:27SPEAKERand all that stuff, but you don't get,
14:28SPEAKERwhen you plug your phone into the car,
14:31SPEAKERlike the route planner app can't interface
14:34SPEAKERwith the car directly to find out like how much charge
14:36SPEAKERthere is and stuff like that as we're driving.
14:39SPEAKERThis ODB adapter plugs in and connects to the phone
14:41SPEAKERwith Bluetooth and it gives that information.
14:43SPEAKERSo like, instead of having to do three 40 minute stops
14:46SPEAKERlast year to charge, this year we did two 40 minute stops
14:49SPEAKERand one like 15 minute stop,
14:53SPEAKERwhich made the whole thing much more humane.
14:55SPEAKER- Well, that's efficiency, I got two questions.
14:58SPEAKER- I think we could have done it in two stops
15:00SPEAKERif we were a little ballsier and or ran the air conditioner
15:03SPEAKERlike five minutes less.
15:05SPEAKER- Number one, I only know ODB to stand for one thing.
15:09SPEAKER- Yeah.
15:10SPEAKER- I don't think this is the old dirty bastard adapter.
15:14SPEAKER- No, it is not.
15:16SPEAKERI mean, I thought that too, but it is, what is an ODB?
15:21SPEAKERIt's a vehicle interface adapter.
15:23SPEAKERIt is, I don't know what ODB stands for though.
15:26SPEAKER- Oh wait, are you sure it's not OBD?
15:28SPEAKER- OBD, sorry, I'm dyslexic.
15:30SPEAKER- Okay, OBD adapter.
15:32SPEAKERI don't see that that stands for anything.
15:36SPEAKERI'm seeing it referred to as like OBD link.
15:38SPEAKER- That's it's, so it's like a wide,
15:41SPEAKERit looks like an old parallel port almost.
15:42SPEAKERIt's a weird, it's the thing that you're,
15:44SPEAKERit's the thing that your mechanic plugs in
15:46SPEAKERto find out why the check engine light is.
15:47SPEAKEROh, it's onboard diagnostics is what it stands for.
15:49SPEAKER- Oh, okay, that stands to reason.
15:51SPEAKERCar adapters, car plugs, car ports are weird.
15:53SPEAKERYou know, like the den on the back of a head unit
15:56SPEAKERand stuff like that.
15:57SPEAKERThey all look like they are about 50 years old.
15:59SPEAKER- They are.
16:00SPEAKER- Yeah, I guess they are, actually.
16:02SPEAKER- The OBD uses an SAE J1962 data link connector,
16:07SPEAKERwhich I'm betting is a 1962 because it was designed in 1962.
16:11SPEAKER- I would believe that.
16:13SPEAKERThe other thing I was gonna ask is,
16:15SPEAKERI wonder stuff like diagnostic battery data,
16:18SPEAKERlike, is that standardized?
16:19SPEAKERAre there standard protocols for communicating
16:21SPEAKERthat kind of information that like are maybe
16:24SPEAKERmanufacturer agnostic at this point in cars?
16:27SPEAKER- Let's see, the battery thing works.
16:29SPEAKERSo you have to get specific ones that work
16:30SPEAKERwith electric cars because I believe there was an extension
16:32SPEAKERto the spec to support the battery information
16:35SPEAKERwhen they started, when electric cars became a real thing.
16:40SPEAKERBut I don't know the specific,
16:41SPEAKERI haven't gotten into the specifics of that.
16:42SPEAKERIt's an interesting topic.
16:43SPEAKERWe should maybe dig into that, that might make a good episode.
16:45SPEAKER- Yeah, like car tech, where car tech is at,
16:47SPEAKERand then specifically like hard data,
16:49SPEAKERI think is super interesting.
16:51SPEAKER- I mean, the interesting thing about this is the OBD,
16:55SPEAKERhaving access to the OBD information,
16:58SPEAKERlike let the route planner app,
17:01SPEAKERwe use a better route planner,
17:02SPEAKERwhich is like literally the name of the app
17:04SPEAKERis a better route planner.
17:06SPEAKERIt let it get live info, so it would say,
17:09SPEAKERoh, hey, you don't actually need to stop here.
17:11SPEAKERYou can go on for another 40 miles
17:13SPEAKER'cause you have enough battery.
17:14SPEAKERAnd then, 'cause the game for people
17:16SPEAKERwho haven't listened to the car episode,
17:18SPEAKERthe game with the electric car is to get in,
17:21SPEAKERlike there's a sweet spot for charging speed
17:22SPEAKERwhere you get the maximum charging speed possible.
17:25SPEAKERAnd that's from like 10% to 60% for the bolt.
17:30SPEAKERAnd then at 60%, it starts slowing down,
17:32SPEAKERjust like your phone does.
17:33SPEAKER- But then also under 10, does it slow down as well?
17:36SPEAKER- Look, man, I don't wanna ever be under 10.
17:38SPEAKER- Oh, actually there are different considerations under 10.
17:40SPEAKER- Yeah, under 10, like, so driving down five,
17:43SPEAKERit's less of a problem because there's a lot of chargers.
17:45SPEAKERBut if you're like going down 101,
17:46SPEAKERwhere chargers are a little more sparse,
17:48SPEAKERunder 10 is pretty scary.
17:50SPEAKER- That is kind of scary because like,
17:51SPEAKERI wonder what the, like,
17:53SPEAKERdo you think AAA has a solution for that at this point?
17:54SPEAKERYou know, obviously with an ICE engine,
17:58SPEAKERICE, is that the term? - Yeah.
18:00SPEAKERThey just bring you more gas.
18:01SPEAKER- Yeah, they just roll up with a five gallon,
18:03SPEAKERyou know, jug of gas.
18:05SPEAKERLike, I wonder if they've got an equivalent
18:07SPEAKERfor electric cars.
18:08SPEAKER- I would like to never find out.
18:10SPEAKER- Do you have AAA? - That's my affirmed goal.
18:13SPEAKER- Yeah.
18:13SPEAKER- I mean, maybe there's like a 10% extra battery
18:16SPEAKERunder there that I don't know about, right?
18:18SPEAKERI'm assuming no.
18:19SPEAKERAnd my intent is to never learn the real truth here.
18:23SPEAKER- That is responsible electric vehicle operation.
18:26SPEAKER- Yeah, so, okay.
18:27SPEAKERSo I brought the desktop computer, which is stupid.
18:30SPEAKERI also brought the Xbox Series S
18:32SPEAKER'cause we released on that.
18:33SPEAKERIt's nice to be able to test that stuff
18:34SPEAKERwhen it gets to our staging servers.
18:37SPEAKER- Are you able to get by with just an S?
18:38SPEAKERI mean, obviously you're making a game for the Xbox,
18:41SPEAKERnot just playing one.
18:42SPEAKERDo you not, you don't have to play both builds
18:43SPEAKERor both versions?
18:44SPEAKER- So I don't.
18:45SPEAKERWe have other people who have coverage
18:48SPEAKERwho have both dev kits and play kits that do X testing.
18:52SPEAKERAnd then we have a couple of people who have Xs
18:54SPEAKERthat test when we get into stage.
18:56SPEAKERI think I'm the only person.
18:57SPEAKERI think Chet maybe has an S too.
18:59SPEAKERI think there's a couple of Ss in the company
19:01SPEAKERand I'm one of them.
19:02SPEAKERSo also it's so small, who cares?
19:05SPEAKER- It is.
19:06SPEAKER- And it's nice 'cause when I'm not using it for work,
19:08SPEAKERI just plug it into the big TV
19:10SPEAKER'cause it's like 110 during the day here.
19:12SPEAKERSo we're not doing a ton of stuff during the day outside.
19:15SPEAKERSo like if the kiddo wants to play Fortnite
19:16SPEAKERor Human Fall Flat or something in the living room,
19:18SPEAKERshe can on the Xbox, which is nice.
19:20SPEAKER- I'll, excuse me, early morning froggy.
19:25SPEAKER- Yeah.
19:26SPEAKER- I also have flown cross country three times now
19:29SPEAKERwith a series S and it travels pretty well.
19:32SPEAKER- It is, there's not really a lot of moving parts
19:34SPEAKERand it's like I use it as a shim to keep stuff
19:39SPEAKERfrom sliding around at the bottom of the car
19:40SPEAKER'cause it's a good size to squeeze in between two things.
19:44SPEAKER- It's pretty sturdy, it's got some bulk to it.
19:45SPEAKERI knocked it off, I'd say about a two and a half foot height
19:49SPEAKERonto the floor one time and it came out just fine so far.
19:54SPEAKERDo you know if, this is maybe kind of
19:57SPEAKERan esoteric game dev question.
19:58SPEAKERDo you know if, are there debug kits for Xbox
20:01SPEAKERthat would allow the same unit to act as both?
20:03SPEAKERLike can you like say constrain the number of GPU cores
20:06SPEAKERit's using to make an X act like an S
20:09SPEAKERfor testing and so forth?
20:10SPEAKER- Oh, I don't, as far as I know our debug kits don't do that
20:14SPEAKERbut I haven't asked, it hasn't come up.
20:16SPEAKER- 'Cause they've got the same CPU, the same I believe.
20:18SPEAKERThe bus for the storage is the same and all that.
20:20SPEAKER- Yeah, my guess is no, but I don't know.
20:23SPEAKERThe dev kits, yeah, I don't know about that.
20:29SPEAKERI don't have any experience with dev kits
20:30SPEAKERbecause we work remotely so,
20:32SPEAKERand like they're still kind of expensive
20:34SPEAKERso we only have like two of them I think.
20:36SPEAKER- Fair.
20:37SPEAKER- It's funny, we have a ton of Xbox One,
20:39SPEAKERwe also released on Xbox One so we have a ton of Xbox One
20:42SPEAKERand One X dev kits, they're a little bit easier.
20:46SPEAKERI mean, frankly, the dev kits are a little bit hard to get
20:48SPEAKEReven, I mean, they're expensive and you have to get all,
20:52SPEAKERit takes a while for them to get,
20:53SPEAKERlike you'll get them eventually, you can pre-order them
20:55SPEAKERbut it just takes a while for you to get them
20:56SPEAKERis my understanding.
20:57SPEAKER- And so there is an actual Xbox dev kit
20:59SPEAKER'cause you know, that was one of their big pitches
21:01SPEAKERdevelopers was like, hey, every Xbox can be a dev kit,
21:03SPEAKERyou know, or like a test unit I guess is the term.
21:05SPEAKERLike you can make any Xbox become a developer kit
21:09SPEAKERthat can run unsigned code
21:10SPEAKERbut is there still a quote unquote like dev kit above that?
21:14SPEAKER- It depends, every Xbox can run unsigned code
21:18SPEAKERdepends on which APIs you use is my understanding.
21:20SPEAKERSo you have a different set of APIs
21:23SPEAKERif you're converting your Xbox to a,
21:27SPEAKERif you're converting a retail Xbox to a dev kit,
21:29SPEAKERyou have access to a different set of APIs
21:32SPEAKERthan if you're in the actual developer program.
21:37SPEAKERSo yeah, like if you wanna use the full might
21:40SPEAKERof the hardware, you don't get that access
21:42SPEAKERif you're doing the conversion thing.
21:44SPEAKER- That makes sense.
21:45SPEAKER- Yeah, it's a weird, it feels kind of arbitrary
21:48SPEAKERfrom where I sit 'cause it would be really nice
21:49SPEAKERto be able to turn any of the,
21:50SPEAKERlike to go out and buy a $300 console
21:52SPEAKERand turn it into a dev kit.
21:55SPEAKERBut I'm sure there's good reasons to not do that.
21:57SPEAKERAnyway, so yeah, I have the Sears S,
21:59SPEAKERI brought the real mic and the real boom arm this year
22:01SPEAKER'cause I was like the boom arm takes up,
22:03SPEAKERlike it folds so it's like four inches wide
22:07SPEAKERand like a foot and a half long and no thickness.
22:10SPEAKER- Is that the road PSA one?
22:14SPEAKER- PSA one, yeah.
22:16SPEAKER- Mine is so creaky.
22:18SPEAKER- I put some of the, I lubed it up
22:21SPEAKERand mine doesn't creak anymore.
22:22SPEAKER- I have also done also apologies to the person
22:24SPEAKERwho provided it to me.
22:26SPEAKERIt's not your fault.
22:27SPEAKER- Oh, they just get creaky after time.
22:29SPEAKERMine's 10 years old and it makes
22:30SPEAKERa little bit of noise sometimes.
22:32SPEAKER- Yeah, mine's a couple of years at this point,
22:34SPEAKERyear and a half.
22:35SPEAKER- Yeah.
22:35SPEAKER- But anyway.
22:37SPEAKER- It's a good arm otherwise.
22:39SPEAKER- I didn't bring the spider clamp for my microphone
22:41SPEAKERwhich I kind of miss but it--
22:42SPEAKER- Shock mount.
22:43SPEAKER- The shock mount, it seemed unnecessary.
22:45SPEAKER- I don't find that I need it with this electro voice.
22:47SPEAKERI mean, we've got slightly different models
22:48SPEAKERbut mine like I type, I kinda, you know,
22:51SPEAKERI do stuff on the desk that it's mounted on and--
22:56SPEAKER- It helps if you bump into it.
22:57SPEAKERIt seems like if you bump into the arm
22:59SPEAKERbut other than that, no.
23:01SPEAKER- Well, that's just a rookie mistake.
23:02SPEAKER- Look man, so one of the nice things
23:05SPEAKERabout stripping down the whole desk at home
23:07SPEAKERto pack up and move out here for the month
23:09SPEAKERis that when I come back, I get to rearrange everything,
23:11SPEAKERlearning what I've learned for the last six months.
23:13SPEAKERI'm very excited about that.
23:17SPEAKERSo I realized if I bring the clamp-on monitor mount,
23:21SPEAKERthe pole plus the arm takes up less space
23:24SPEAKERthan one like normal monitor stand.
23:28SPEAKERSo I just brought a second monitor this year.
23:30SPEAKER- So you got to have two instead of one.
23:31SPEAKERMan, you really did disassemble everything.
23:34SPEAKER- Well, I mean, if I'm taking,
23:35SPEAKERthe monitors are on the same arm.
23:37SPEAKERThe up and down monitor's on the same arm.
23:38SPEAKERSo taking one off, I had to take both off to bring the arm.
23:40SPEAKERSo it wasn't that big a deal.
23:42SPEAKERBut yeah, so that's feeling pretty good.
23:49SPEAKERI brought the Play Date and the Steam Deck to--
23:53SPEAKER- The Switch, huh?
23:55SPEAKER- The Switch is here.
23:55SPEAKER- Oh, it is?
23:56SPEAKER- Yeah, well, we play Mario Kart probably twice a week.
23:59SPEAKER- I see.
24:00SPEAKER- Still.
24:01SPEAKER- I don't know, man.
24:02SPEAKERI still bring the Switch when I go back home.
24:06SPEAKERIt's feeling more and more superfluous to me at this point.
24:09SPEAKER- Man, they've released Pokemon Puzzle League
24:12SPEAKERfor the N64 back compat yesterday.
24:14SPEAKERSo suddenly there's a reason to have your Switch with you.
24:22SPEAKER- I suppose that's--
24:22SPEAKER- Pretty good game.
24:23SPEAKER- A good counter argument.
24:24SPEAKEROn the monitors, before we move on,
24:26SPEAKERyou told me earlier that you went through
24:29SPEAKERall that rigmarole of bringing your whole monitor set up,
24:31SPEAKERonly to find that your host has now provided a monitor.
24:34SPEAKER- Yeah, there's a pretty good BenQ 1440p monitor
24:38SPEAKERjust sitting here when I got here.
24:39SPEAKER- Wow, that was not there last year, I take it.
24:41SPEAKER- Was not here last year.
24:42SPEAKER- Do you think, what if they bought that for you?
24:45SPEAKER- Well, so the people who own this place,
24:48SPEAKERthe guy runs a podcast.
24:49SPEAKERI don't know what the podcast is, or I'd plug it.
24:53SPEAKER- God, everybody has a podcast now.
24:55SPEAKER- I mean, middle-aged white guys all have podcasts, Brad.
24:57SPEAKERThat's the takeaway.
25:02SPEAKERThe Airbnb picture had an Elgato deck light on it,
25:07SPEAKERon the desk, clamped on the desk in the picture.
25:11SPEAKER- Okay, I see.
25:12SPEAKERIf you knew what kind of establishment
25:14SPEAKERyou were walking into.
25:15SPEAKER- Well, yeah, and clearly they've set decorated
25:18SPEAKERthe background, there's a bird and a plant.
25:21SPEAKERThey follow all the rules.
25:23SPEAKERThe background of the Zoom shot, when I'm on Zoom calls,
25:26SPEAKERfollows all the rules of the rate your Zoom.
25:32SPEAKERThe people who rate people's Zooms
25:33SPEAKERwho are on CNN or whatever.
25:35SPEAKER- I'd say that's at least a seven from where I sit.
25:37SPEAKERMaybe if you made the bed, it would be an eight.
25:39SPEAKER- Well, I usually make the bed,
25:40SPEAKERbut this is not a video podcast.
25:42SPEAKER- Fair.
25:44SPEAKER- Yeah, so let's see, that's it, I think.
25:47SPEAKEROh, and then I brought two, it's funny,
25:50SPEAKER'cause like the bag of cables and accessories
25:52SPEAKERis as big as the computer case.
25:54SPEAKER- Nice, you know you're living that life
25:57SPEAKERwhen you've got that many adapters and cables.
26:00SPEAKER- Dude, it takes so fucking many cables to keep,
26:02SPEAKERlike I have to bring the antenna
26:04SPEAKERand I brought 100 feet of ethernet and some gaff tape
26:07SPEAKERto run a cable down the hall from the router.
26:10SPEAKER- Oh, that's right, last year you were on,
26:12SPEAKERagain, in that same spot, but on questionable wifi
26:15SPEAKERfor the whole month and that was like-
26:17SPEAKER- Yeah, it was like the end of the long chain
26:20SPEAKERon the mesh network and it turns out
26:23SPEAKERit's not where I wanna be.
26:24SPEAKER- For trying to do a low latency podcast recording,
26:26SPEAKERlet's say, it was less than ideal.
26:28SPEAKER- Yeah, it wasn't great or anything that requires upstream
26:31SPEAKERwas pretty bad.
26:34SPEAKERSo the big thing on the cable front that I did this year
26:36SPEAKERwas I bought a big multi-pack of adjustable zip ties,
26:40SPEAKERreusable zip ties, so they have like a little thumb
26:43SPEAKERthat you can push the key down and pull them back off.
26:46SPEAKERYeah, they're awesome, check this.
26:48SPEAKERIt's gonna blow your mind.
26:51SPEAKER- I'm watching him tie a zip tie.
26:54SPEAKEROh, there's that click.
26:55SPEAKERNow you'll never use that thing again.
26:56SPEAKEROh, what, what?
26:58SPEAKERMan, look at that. - Magic.
26:59SPEAKER- It's so like a regular zip tie
27:01SPEAKERwith one extra little piece on it.
27:03SPEAKER- Well, so what I did this time was for each device,
27:06SPEAKERI bundled all the cables together.
27:07SPEAKERSo like the PC had the display port cables,
27:10SPEAKERthe power cable, all wrapped up in one big bundle, right?
27:15SPEAKERThe audio interface had the USB-C
27:18SPEAKERand XLR cables bundled up together.
27:20SPEAKERThe console had the HDMI
27:22SPEAKERand the power cable bundled up together.
27:25SPEAKERAnd this, it turns out, has some real benefits,
27:28SPEAKERwhich is I could just reach into the bin,
27:31SPEAKERgrab the cable out that I needed,
27:33SPEAKERand I only got the cables that I needed
27:36SPEAKERfor each device when I needed it.
27:38SPEAKER- That's smart.
27:39SPEAKER- And once I got here, I was able to use the extra zip ties
27:42SPEAKERto kind of tidy up the cables a little bit
27:44SPEAKERso it's not a whole living nightmare under the desk.
27:46SPEAKER- You were really doing it this year.
27:49SPEAKER- Yeah, so I mean, look, I'm here for a 12th of the year, so.
27:52SPEAKER- That's fair.
27:53SPEAKERWe could do the math on how much of your life that is,
27:55SPEAKERespecially over maybe multiple years.
27:57SPEAKER- Yeah, so that's pretty much it.
28:00SPEAKERHaving two monitors, it turns out pretty nice.
28:03SPEAKER- Pretty good, it's very hard to go back.
28:05SPEAKER- Once you're used to having two monitors,
28:07SPEAKERespecially if you're doing like any kind of streaming
28:09SPEAKERor anything like that where you need to have two things open,
28:11SPEAKERlike last year I used my laptop setting off to the side,
28:14SPEAKERbut that presented a whole other host of pain in the ass.
28:19SPEAKERAnd yeah, it's like, I've gotten it to the point
28:22SPEAKERthat it took me like four hours to tear everything down.
28:25SPEAKERIt took me about three hours, two hours,
28:27SPEAKERtwo and a half hours to set everything up.
28:29SPEAKERI'm sure it'll take longer next year.
28:32SPEAKERI mean, when I get home to put everything back together,
28:34SPEAKERbut I'm gonna field strip the desk
28:36SPEAKERand like replace cables and get right length cables
28:40SPEAKERand stuff like that for everything I think is the plan.
28:42SPEAKER- It's pretty good overhead.
28:44SPEAKER- Yeah, I feel pretty good about it.
28:47SPEAKER- On the monitor stuff, I, you know,
28:48SPEAKERI've got two 27-inch 1440p monitors here.
28:52SPEAKER- We're aware, Brad.
28:53SPEAKER- What?
28:54SPEAKER- We've talked about your monitors.
28:56SPEAKER- I'm just trying to establish context, God damn it.
28:59SPEAKERI don't know who hasn't ever listened
29:00SPEAKERto this podcast before.
29:03SPEAKER- I'm just giving you grief.
29:05SPEAKER- You try to over explain for the benefit
29:07SPEAKERof first time listeners and you get nothing.
29:08SPEAKER- I know, I know, I know.
29:09SPEAKERI'm a bad person, I'm sorry.
29:11SPEAKER- No, it's less you.
29:12SPEAKERAnyway, what was I even saying?
29:16SPEAKERThe point is though, going from two 27-inch monitors
29:18SPEAKERto a 14-inch MacBook, a bit restrictive
29:22SPEAKERwhen I was working remote, did we talk about this?
29:25SPEAKERI got to the point where I was using the iPad,
29:27SPEAKERmy 10-inch iPad Pro as a second monitor.
29:30SPEAKER- Yeah, I can see that.
29:31SPEAKER- Which basically works.
29:33SPEAKERAre they still calling that sidecar?
29:34SPEAKERI think that's what that feature started out as.
29:35SPEAKER- I think it has a different name now.
29:37SPEAKER- It may just be mirror display now or something,
29:40SPEAKERbut it's weird using a track pad
29:42SPEAKERon an iPad is kind of strange, but.
29:46SPEAKER- Well, that would be weird.
29:47SPEAKER- It mostly works.
29:48SPEAKERThe mouse cursor is like a little dot.
29:49SPEAKERIt's like a little translucent dot that moves around.
29:52SPEAKER- Really?
29:52SPEAKER- Except when it's in Mac OS mode,
29:53SPEAKERit just is literally another monitor.
29:56SPEAKERIt just looks like Mac OS with an arrow and everything,
29:58SPEAKERbut you can also control the iPad like iOS or iPad OS,
30:01SPEAKERI guess they call it now.
30:02SPEAKER- Wait, you can control that from your MacBook?
30:05SPEAKER- Yes, with the track pad on the MacBook.
30:07SPEAKERAnd again, like I said, the cursor at that point,
30:09SPEAKERit's a little translucent dot that moves around.
30:10SPEAKERIt's very strange.
30:11SPEAKER- Oh, oh, oh, it's the assistant thing.
30:13SPEAKERIt's the assistant dot that you see
30:15SPEAKERwhen you're using like an external device.
30:17SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
30:18SPEAKER- Okay, okay.
30:20SPEAKERIt's, you know, it's in a pinch
30:21SPEAKERfor monitoring or recording or something.
30:23SPEAKERIt does the job.
30:24SPEAKER- You're back there enough these days
30:26SPEAKERthat it might be worth looking at like getting a cheap,
30:30SPEAKERlike you can get a $100 monitor
30:32SPEAKERthat's pretty good for that kind of use now.
30:34SPEAKER- We almost did that.
30:35SPEAKERThey have, as a matter of fact,
30:37SPEAKERthey have that same old Dell that I had two of
30:40SPEAKERthat I got rid of finally.
30:41SPEAKER- Oh, the 2415 or whatever?
30:45SPEAKER- Oh God, oh no.
30:46SPEAKER- Am I forgetting it? - Do you remember the number?
30:48SPEAKER- Oh man.
30:50SPEAKER- The year was in there and 24 was in there.
30:52SPEAKERI don't remember what number. - It's the 2005 FPW.
30:54SPEAKERThere was also a 2405 FPW.
30:57SPEAKERAnyway, theirs is in very good shape
30:58SPEAKER'cause they don't use it much.
30:59SPEAKERI bought it for them for Christmas ages ago.
31:02SPEAKERAnyway, yeah, every time I go there,
31:06SPEAKERI have to resist spending a bunch of their money
31:10SPEAKERupgrading all of their tech.
31:12SPEAKER- Yeah, don't do that.
31:14SPEAKER- Their WiFi is woefully outdated.
31:16SPEAKERThat monitor is 15 years old.
31:18SPEAKERI was like, you should get a new monitor
31:19SPEAKERand a new router and like this and that.
31:22SPEAKER- But they're fine.
31:24SPEAKER- Yeah.
31:28SPEAKER- I've been looking at like those portable monitors.
31:30SPEAKERI don't know if you've seen those,
31:31SPEAKERbut they're like USB bus powered.
31:34SPEAKERSo basically like a laptop screen.
31:36SPEAKER- Yes, we need to talk about USB-C on this episode,
31:38SPEAKERbut we'll get there.
31:39SPEAKERBut a lot of those portable monitors I've been seeing
31:40SPEAKERare in fact USB-C powered.
31:42SPEAKER- Yeah, and like they're still kind of expensive
31:46SPEAKER'cause they're kind of a specialty item,
31:48SPEAKERbut it would be really nice to have just a small monitor
31:50SPEAKERI could just clamp on right on the side of the display.
31:54SPEAKERAnd that would solve me having to bring two monitors
31:56SPEAKERfor something like this, I think.
31:57SPEAKER- Oh, do they come with mounting hardware?
31:59SPEAKER- No, but you look, the mounting hardware is cheap
32:01SPEAKERand is easily available.
32:04SPEAKER- I think most of the ones I've seen
32:05SPEAKERare like 13 to 15 inch, right?
32:07SPEAKER- Yeah, usually they're like, think about laptop size.
32:10SPEAKER- Right, and they're right.
32:12SPEAKERI think the cheapest on sale,
32:13SPEAKERI've seen them in like 300 bucks now, which is like--
32:15SPEAKER- That feels like too much.
32:16SPEAKER- Still pricey for that size of screen,
32:18SPEAKERbut like it's getting there.
32:19SPEAKERI mean, what is doing the video output at that point?
32:22SPEAKERIs it like Thunderbolt over USB-C?
32:27SPEAKERIs that a display? - My guess is
32:27SPEAKERit's DisplayPort over USB-C or Thunderbolt over USB-C, yeah.
32:30SPEAKER- Right, but the screens I assume are just dumb screens,
32:33SPEAKERright, like they don't have any video processing in them.
32:37SPEAKER- I mean, I'm sure they could be USB devices
32:39SPEAKERthat are gonna have all the pros and cons of USB devices,
32:45SPEAKERbut my guess is that they're, for the most part,
32:48SPEAKERpretty, pretty stupid, just displays.
32:50SPEAKER- I've read a decent amount of discussion
32:52SPEAKERfrom people who've bought early models of those things,
32:54SPEAKERand like the concept is awesome.
32:56SPEAKERThe one thing that really,
32:57SPEAKERI'm not looking to buy one anytime soon,
32:59SPEAKERbut latency is the one complaint I've seen
33:01SPEAKERthat actually would be kind of a deal breaker for me.
33:04SPEAKER- Well, so my understanding is that latency is bad
33:07SPEAKERin a video game context, but probably negligible
33:10SPEAKERin a desktop context. - Yeah, you're probably right.
33:11SPEAKERIt's probably fine for that.
33:14SPEAKER- But yeah, like the USB, the big change for me
33:17SPEAKERfrom this year to last year is that everything I brought
33:20SPEAKERwith me is USB-C at this point, I think,
33:24SPEAKERexcept for my phone, which is lightning.
33:26SPEAKER- I have been feeling that probably
33:28SPEAKERsince the beginning of the year.
33:28SPEAKERI think USB-C finally happened.
33:31SPEAKER- Yeah, like- - I think it happened.
33:33SPEAKER- Last year I had some micro USB controllers
33:36SPEAKER'cause I brought probably an Xbox Series S controller,
33:39SPEAKERor Xbox One S controller, which I think was micro USB.
33:45SPEAKER- One controllers were micro, yes.
33:47SPEAKER- Yeah, but this year I brought a PS DualSense
33:50SPEAKERand an Xbox Series controller.
33:54SPEAKERAnd like I brought a pair of wireless headphones
33:57SPEAKERfor the kiddo to use.
33:59SPEAKERMy audio interface is USB-C now, my keyboard's USB-C now.
34:04SPEAKER- I guess my mouse pad and mouse are still micro USB,
34:08SPEAKERbut they have their own cables, so who cares?
34:10SPEAKER- I think it feels like in the last year-ish.
34:12SPEAKERSo yeah, like the new console controllers are USB-C.
34:15SPEAKERI think in the last year,
34:16SPEAKERjust USB-C became the default connector for everything.
34:19SPEAKERLike that Motu audio interface I bought uses it.
34:22SPEAKERI bought a new Kindle, that's USB-C.
34:24SPEAKERI got this iPhone SE, it's still lightning cable,
34:26SPEAKERbut it's USB-C on the other end and not A.
34:31SPEAKERLooking around the room here,
34:32SPEAKERit just feels like we're there.
34:34SPEAKER- Yeah, it's the time.
34:36SPEAKER- Which I guess is good.
34:37SPEAKER- It's funny 'cause I feel like Norm and I first saw USB-C
34:40SPEAKERat CES in like 2010 or 2011 or 2011 or 2012.
34:46SPEAKERIt was when we were still in the whiskey basement.
34:47SPEAKERAnd like that, I remember thinking,
34:51SPEAKERoh man, this is gonna be really cool when it finally lands.
34:53SPEAKERAnd now a mere 10 years later, here we are finally.
34:57SPEAKER- Standards, they take a while to proliferate.
34:59SPEAKER- Well, but like, if you think about it like as recently as
35:02SPEAKERprobably two years ago, I might've even brought a micro,
35:05SPEAKERa mini USB cable in case I had like a, you know,
35:10SPEAKERcamera or something that I needed to plug in.
35:12SPEAKERBut like my GoPro is USB-C now.
35:15SPEAKERAll, everything I have is USB-C.
35:17SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean that, excuse me,
35:19SPEAKERthat Yeti that became my out of town mic
35:21SPEAKERis still mini USB, for example.
35:23SPEAKER- Oh wow, that's mini?
35:24SPEAKER- Yeah.
35:25SPEAKER- Well, that's funny.
35:26SPEAKERThe Yeti I used to have was a USB-A,
35:29SPEAKERthe not host end.
35:31SPEAKER- Interesting.
35:32SPEAKER- Yeah, it was the big chunky plug.
35:34SPEAKER- I wouldn't be shocked if even the Yeti
35:36SPEAKERis coming off the line now or USB-C.
35:38SPEAKER- I would hope everything.
35:39SPEAKERDid you see that Elizabeth Warren came out
35:43SPEAKERon the phone charger?
35:44SPEAKERShe was like, hey, the EU has a smart,
35:46SPEAKERshe was smart enough to not say,
35:47SPEAKERhey, the EU does this smart
35:48SPEAKERso that the right wing people don't go crazy.
35:51SPEAKERBut she did say, hey, it's stupid that we make people
35:55SPEAKERbuy new chargers all the time
35:56SPEAKERand don't just use USB-C for everything,
35:58SPEAKERwhich is, I mean, I guess on smartphones,
36:03SPEAKEReverything's USB-C or lightning at this point.
36:05SPEAKER- Yeah, Apple's gotta be the only holdout
36:07SPEAKERat this point, right?
36:08SPEAKERAnd it feels like the rumors get stronger every year
36:11SPEAKERthat they're finally gonna make the switch
36:12SPEAKERlike in the next year or two.
36:14SPEAKER- I mean, I think once Johnny Ive left,
36:16SPEAKERthe main antagonist against USB-C probably went away.
36:21SPEAKER- That's fair.
36:21SPEAKERGod, remember the last switch
36:24SPEAKERfrom the 40 pin to the lightning?
36:25SPEAKER- Oh God.
36:26SPEAKER- The wailing and gnashing of teeth
36:28SPEAKERthat accompanied that.
36:29SPEAKER- I literally just got rid of the last one
36:31SPEAKERof those adapters when I was cleaning up my office
36:33SPEAKERa few weeks ago.
36:34SPEAKER- Wow.
36:35SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
36:36SPEAKER- Maybe it won't be as bad this time
36:37SPEAKER'cause USB-C is on everything else,
36:39SPEAKERbut I don't know, you tell me.
36:42SPEAKER- I mean, I feel like this has been
36:43SPEAKERa more gentle transition, but we'll see.
36:46SPEAKER- Yeah, I think the point that I realized
36:48SPEAKERthat this had finally flipped over was where I went,
36:51SPEAKERI went from being annoyed when things are USB-C
36:54SPEAKERto being annoyed when they're USB-A now.
36:56SPEAKERLike now I'm annoyed at having to keep adapters around
36:59SPEAKERto use USB-C stuff 'cause like this MacBook is all C.
37:04SPEAKERLike I want things to be C now
37:05SPEAKERinstead of wanting them to be A.
37:07SPEAKER- Yeah, like as I was packing for this trip,
37:09SPEAKERI was like, I need to buy,
37:11SPEAKERlike I have a couple of travel size
37:13SPEAKERlike four port USB-A chargers,
37:16SPEAKERand it became clear that I needed to buy
37:18SPEAKERsome multi USB-C chargers for things like phones
37:21SPEAKERand watches and stuff like that.
37:24SPEAKER- What, I was gonna say like the interesting thing for me
37:29SPEAKERis that this year has definitely been the year
37:31SPEAKERthat it went from, oh, I need to chuck
37:33SPEAKERa couple of USB-C cables into my bag
37:35SPEAKERto like here's all the micro cables and like one mini cable
37:40SPEAKERand then a couple of USB-Cs just in case.
37:43SPEAKER'Cause like last year I rolled in here
37:45SPEAKERwith exactly the right number of USB-Cs
37:47SPEAKERand I actually had a problem 'cause I couldn't,
37:49SPEAKERlike I had to buy a USB-C when I was here
37:51SPEAKER'cause I forgot that the camera uses USB-C
37:54SPEAKERand I didn't have anything to charge stuff with,
37:57SPEAKERlike charge controllers with.
37:58SPEAKER- That's why you never only bring just enough.
38:00SPEAKER- Yeah, well, I mean, look,
38:02SPEAKERsometimes minimalism is not my strong point
38:05SPEAKERit turns out when you're traveling like this.
38:06SPEAKERBut yeah, so this year it's definitely like,
38:10SPEAKERoh, I need to chuck in a bunch of USB-Cs
38:12SPEAKERand then I'll put in one or two micros and minis.
38:14SPEAKERI don't think I have a mini, but micros just in case.
38:17SPEAKER- The future is now the best of 2010 technology.
38:20SPEAKER- 2012, 2012. - 2012, sorry.
38:22SPEAKER- Yeah, so what's, okay, so you've been traveling too,
38:25SPEAKERbut you're going on airplanes instead of driving.
38:28SPEAKERSo you're traveling a little lighter by necessity, I think.
38:30SPEAKER- Yes, although boy, that first trip out,
38:33SPEAKERDecember was the first time I had been out there
38:35SPEAKERbefore the pandemic.
38:36SPEAKERSo that was two plus years.
38:39SPEAKERHad to remember how to fly, had to remember that,
38:41SPEAKERoh, wow, I should not pack that backpack that full of stuff.
38:44SPEAKER- Boy, were your arms tired.
38:45SPEAKER- There were like six, I'm trying to count in my head,
38:48SPEAKERlike six different items that I had to pull out for TSA
38:51SPEAKERthat were electronics in nature
38:52SPEAKERand put on the conveyor belt.
38:54SPEAKER- Do you not have pre?
38:55SPEAKER- No.
38:57SPEAKER- Brad. - I should.
38:58SPEAKER- Okay, well, right now it doesn't make a ton of sense.
39:02SPEAKER- Well, I have flown out there and back three times
39:04SPEAKERin the last six months.
39:05SPEAKERSo it would have paid quite a bit of sense, but you know.
39:08SPEAKER- So if you travel a lot
39:09SPEAKERand if you tend to carry a lot of gear,
39:12SPEAKERlike spending the $70 every five years on pre,
39:15SPEAKERand just to be clear, I think the $70 is just to pay
39:18SPEAKERfor a background check or something.
39:19SPEAKER- Oh yeah, yeah, it's cheap, the bigger problem for me
39:21SPEAKERis that it's impossible to book the appointments around here.
39:24SPEAKERLike you can only do it at SFO last I checked,
39:26SPEAKERwhich it's like a pain to get to SFO in the first place
39:28SPEAKERand also the appointments are like weeks out.
39:31SPEAKER- Well, I mean, like when I did it, I did it at Oakland
39:34SPEAKERand it was like five days, like four weeks out
39:37SPEAKERwhen I booked the appointment.
39:40SPEAKERIt's worth going through the hassle.
39:41SPEAKER- Oh, I definitely get, I absolutely,
39:43SPEAKERevery time I fly and bring all that stuff,
39:45SPEAKERalthough I've been going out there so much,
39:46SPEAKERI've actually like left half of that stuff there at this
39:49SPEAKERpoint, which I mean, I'm at the point now where I like,
39:52SPEAKERI bought a pair of shoes to leave there this time,
39:54SPEAKERyou know, which helps quite a bit, but yes,
39:56SPEAKERlike every time I unpack all that stuff, I'm like, man,
40:00SPEAKERwhat if I didn't have to do this or take off my shoes?
40:03SPEAKER- Yeah, the not having to take off your shoes,
40:04SPEAKERit goes from being like a 30 minutes minimum through security
40:08SPEAKERto about five minutes usually at SFO in my experience.
40:11SPEAKER- Oh, that sounds so nice, I should just do it,
40:12SPEAKERI'm just gonna do it.
40:13SPEAKER- Yeah, just do it.
40:14SPEAKERYou know what, next time you fly back,
40:16SPEAKERbut next time you make a decision to fly back,
40:17SPEAKERjust book the appointment for the morning
40:19SPEAKERbefore your flight.
40:21SPEAKERThat's what Norm did.
40:22SPEAKER- Wait, I assumed there would still be like,
40:24SPEAKERand this is another reason I keep putting it off,
40:25SPEAKERis I assumed even after the interview,
40:27SPEAKERthere was still probably like weeks of processing
40:29SPEAKERand bureaucracy.
40:30SPEAKER- Yeah, there'll be a couple of weeks of processing,
40:32SPEAKERbut at least you'll have the appointment done
40:35SPEAKERand you won't have to go out to SFO for a special,
40:36SPEAKERmake a special trip to SFO.
40:38SPEAKER- Fair, fair.
40:39SPEAKER- Yeah, okay, so what do you take?
40:41SPEAKERWhat's your move?
40:43SPEAKER- At this point, I'm on the MacBook Pro,
40:45SPEAKERthe Xbox Series S, a Switch, although, like I said,
40:48SPEAKERI'm not doing a whole lot with the Switch these days,
40:50SPEAKERbut it seems like malpractice not to bring one.
40:54SPEAKER- Do you bring like your grippy thing
40:56SPEAKERor do you have a grippy thing?
40:57SPEAKER- Oh, I don't have a grippy thing.
40:58SPEAKER- Oh, you should get a grippy thing for the Switch,
41:00SPEAKERit makes it much more easy to play.
41:01SPEAKER- I should probably get a grippy thing.
41:02SPEAKER- Much more comfortable.
41:04SPEAKER- Gosh, Kindle, iPad.
41:06SPEAKER- Yeah.
41:07SPEAKER- That's kind of it now, everything else lives there.
41:12SPEAKERLike even a mic stand, microphone and stand
41:14SPEAKERand Xbox controller, all kinds of stuff out there.
41:19SPEAKERAnyway.
41:20SPEAKER- I almost didn't bring the Rode Arm this time
41:23SPEAKER'cause I was like, I could just buy a $20 arm from Amazon
41:28SPEAKERand treat it as disposable.
41:30SPEAKER- That's exactly what I did.
41:31SPEAKERI went on the Discord and just asked Ed.
41:34SPEAKER- Yeah.
41:34SPEAKER- 'Cause Ed knows, I just said,
41:35SPEAKERhey, just what's the best floor stand?
41:37SPEAKERHe's a big floor stand guy.
41:39SPEAKER- Oh, interesting.
41:40SPEAKER- And the floor stand he pointed me to was like 40 bucks
41:42SPEAKERand exactly what I needed.
41:44SPEAKER- Oh, there you go.
41:44SPEAKER- And that would drive a well if you, anyway.
41:47SPEAKERI also hate unpacking all my electronics in the TSA line
41:51SPEAKER'cause I hate getting them all banged up.
41:55SPEAKER- My feeling is that things should be used.
41:58SPEAKER- Oh, I agree.
41:59SPEAKERBut like, you know, that's not what I would consider use.
42:03SPEAKERThat's my typical, like throwing stuff around in bins
42:06SPEAKERand sending it through x-rays
42:07SPEAKERis not what I consider normal use for electronics.
42:10SPEAKER- But what's the Japanese thing
42:12SPEAKERwhere when you break a dish, you mend it
42:14SPEAKERin a way that's beautiful?
42:16SPEAKER- Whoa, that sounds like a very elegant philosophy.
42:19SPEAKERI don't know.
42:21SPEAKERMend it as in like literally glue it back together?
42:23SPEAKER- It's kintsugi, I think.
42:26SPEAKERYeah, so you mend pottery that's broken with gold.
42:30SPEAKER- Oh, huh.
42:31SPEAKER- And it repairs it and makes it lovely
42:32SPEAKERand makes it look intentional when you break something.
42:36SPEAKERIt means golden joinery, please.
42:39SPEAKER- Interesting.
42:40SPEAKERSo you repair pottery with mixed lacquer,
42:44SPEAKERmixed with powdered gold, silver, or platinum.
42:46SPEAKER- Wow, I don't know if that MacBook breaks in half.
42:50SPEAKERI may not be.
42:51SPEAKER- I don't think you can glue that back together.
42:52SPEAKER- Mending it with gold.
42:55SPEAKER- I mean, you could try.
42:56SPEAKER- I guess I could try.
42:57SPEAKERI finally-
42:58SPEAKER- You probably would have some thoughts.
42:58SPEAKER- Yes, I'm sure he would.
42:59SPEAKERSo I finally just, I was like, all right,
43:01SPEAKERI need a laptop sleeve, at least.
43:02SPEAKERLike the Xbox, eh, but this laptop's very expensive
43:07SPEAKERand I'm still babying it and it's a work thing.
43:09SPEAKERLike I should at least try to protect that.
43:11SPEAKERMy partner found a laptop sleeve at like a brand new one
43:15SPEAKERat the Salvation Army.
43:16SPEAKER- Ooh.
43:17SPEAKER- Let me tell you, she lives for deal hunting
43:21SPEAKERin San Francisco at thrift shops.
43:23SPEAKER- It's hard to do in San Francisco these days, too.
43:26SPEAKER- How do you figure?
43:26SPEAKER- Well, like the deal, the number of people
43:32SPEAKERwho are aware of what a good deal is on like technology
43:35SPEAKERor technology adjacent stuff in San Francisco
43:37SPEAKERis pretty high.
43:38SPEAKER- Oh yeah, yeah, you're not wrong.
43:39SPEAKERWell, this is not just tech stuff.
43:40SPEAKERI mean, this is everything.
43:41SPEAKER- Okay.
43:42SPEAKER- But like specifically the thing I was going to say is,
43:44SPEAKERand I'm not giving away the secret here,
43:45SPEAKERif you live in San Francisco.
43:47SPEAKER- Wow.
43:47SPEAKER- There are so many people of extravagant wealth
43:49SPEAKERin the city.
43:51SPEAKERYou can find so much stuff at thrift shops
43:53SPEAKERthat is brand new and very nice and like clear,
43:56SPEAKERlike literally with like the sticker still on it.
43:58SPEAKERLike just-
43:59SPEAKER- Oh yeah.
43:59SPEAKER- Like it's just ridiculous.
44:01SPEAKERLike we've got a brand new ottoman,
44:03SPEAKERlike brand new like a hundred dollar,
44:04SPEAKERlike wooden serving tray from Crate and Barrel,
44:07SPEAKERlike just all kinds of stuff.
44:08SPEAKERJust clearly never been used before.
44:10SPEAKER- Wow.
44:11SPEAKER- So she found a nice laptop sleeve there.
44:13SPEAKER- Yeah.
44:14SPEAKER- And brought it home.
44:15SPEAKER- Uh-huh.
44:16SPEAKER- It's been in glittered.
44:17SPEAKER- Did you do the glittering or did it come glittered?
44:20SPEAKER- We don't know what happened.
44:21SPEAKERWe don't know what happened, but there's glitter.
44:22SPEAKERIt's like, it was new.
44:23SPEAKERIt appeared to be new.
44:25SPEAKERNever used, but it's got glitter.
44:29SPEAKERWhat do you do about glitter?
44:30SPEAKER- Yeah, there's nothing you can do.
44:33SPEAKER- Oh man.
44:33SPEAKERDoes that one just forfeit?
44:35SPEAKER- Well, I mean, you can just assume
44:36SPEAKERit's gonna be glittered forever.
44:38SPEAKERThat's fine.
44:39SPEAKERIt's just the way you live your life now.
44:41SPEAKER- Yeah, I suppose so.
44:42SPEAKER- I bought a really fancy pen a few weeks ago
44:44SPEAKERand I didn't realize until I looked at something
44:46SPEAKERI'd written with it in the sunlight
44:47SPEAKERthat it had glitter in the ink.
44:49SPEAKER- What?
44:50SPEAKER- Yeah.
44:51SPEAKER- What monster would birth something like that?
44:53SPEAKER- I mean, it's colored, so I don't know.
44:56SPEAKERI bought a child pencil.
44:58SPEAKERMy friend Bonnie Burton calls glitter
45:00SPEAKERthe herpes of the craft world.
45:02SPEAKER- Wow.
45:03SPEAKERWell, now we've got an episode title.
45:05SPEAKER- Yeah.
45:06SPEAKER- I don't know about that.
45:07SPEAKER- It's between that and old dirty bastard adapter.
45:10SPEAKERI'm not sure.
45:11SPEAKER(laughing)
45:13SPEAKER- But no, the idea is that once you engage
45:17SPEAKERwith glitter forever, is it gonna haunt you?
45:21SPEAKER- I can attest.
45:23SPEAKER- I'm gonna go ahead and tell people that like the,
45:26SPEAKERif you're a parent and you need an emergency,
45:29SPEAKERlike Mother's Day or birthday card or something,
45:32SPEAKERor even just want to have a project
45:34SPEAKERthat you can do with the kid,
45:36SPEAKERa good thing to do is to cut out a heart
45:38SPEAKERor whatever shape you want,
45:40SPEAKERspread glue on the card,
45:42SPEAKERon the craft paper you're gonna use for the card,
45:44SPEAKERand then dump a bunch of really fine glitter on the glue.
45:47SPEAKERAnd it looks really fancy and nice.
45:48SPEAKERThe glitter never stays on the glue though, is the thing.
45:52SPEAKERThis is an outside project for a small child.
45:55SPEAKER- Glitter has a mind of its own.
45:56SPEAKERIt's like a hive mind.
45:58SPEAKERIt's like an ant colony, something about glitter,
46:00SPEAKERlike it all seems to act of a piece.
46:03SPEAKER- Well, then there have been a lot of good AMAs
46:07SPEAKERfrom people who work at or own glitter factories
46:09SPEAKERon Reddit over the years about the horrible things.
46:13SPEAKERThe other fun,
46:16SPEAKERI have a friend who worked in stop motion animation
46:19SPEAKERfor a long time.
46:20SPEAKERI think Adam's told this story on "This is the Only Test"
46:22SPEAKERor still entitled at some point too.
46:25SPEAKERBut he was like, what's the thing?
46:28SPEAKERYou know, when you're shooting this shit
46:30SPEAKERand doing a stop motion shoot,
46:31SPEAKERwhich takes months or years in some cases,
46:35SPEAKERyou often think like if things went bad
46:37SPEAKERwith my relationship with this production
46:39SPEAKERand I wanted to destroy it, what was the thing I could do?
46:42SPEAKERAnd it's that you walk into the room with the puppets
46:44SPEAKERand just blow glitter so that there's little speckles
46:47SPEAKERof glitter on everything.
46:49SPEAKER- Dude, that doesn't just ruin the production.
46:51SPEAKERThat ruins that room as well.
46:53SPEAKER- Oh, it would destroy the film in a way
46:57SPEAKERthat they wouldn't realize until much, much later.
46:59SPEAKER'Cause you probably wouldn't realize that it's sparkly
47:01SPEAKERin different places.
47:03SPEAKER- That's devious.
47:04SPEAKER- It's evil.
47:05SPEAKERAnyway, what else did you bring?
47:08SPEAKERWhat else do you-
47:09SPEAKER- I mean, adapters, hubs, you know, standard stuff.
47:14SPEAKERI ended up buying the entire "Rogue Amoeba" suite
47:16SPEAKERof audio tools for Mac OS.
47:18SPEAKER- What's "Rogue Amoeba"? I'm not familiar with them.
47:20SPEAKER- They're a little boutique software company.
47:22SPEAKERSo I'm fascinated by the,
47:24SPEAKERI've been fascinated for a long time by the kind of like,
47:27SPEAKERtrying to think how to describe it.
47:28SPEAKERIt's like the kind of low key commercial software world
47:31SPEAKERfor Mac OS.
47:33SPEAKERYou know what I mean?
47:34SPEAKERLike there is such a different culture
47:35SPEAKERof selling software on the Mac.
47:37SPEAKER- Yeah.
47:38SPEAKER- Like on Windows, everything is like,
47:40SPEAKERpretty much everything in Windows is freeware.
47:41SPEAKERThere's at least one freeware version of everything.
47:44SPEAKERObviously like the open source world,
47:46SPEAKEReverything is free by definition.
47:49SPEAKERThere's always just been this like different vibe
47:50SPEAKERto Mac software.
47:51SPEAKERLike it's almost all trialware.
47:55SPEAKER- Well, yeah, it's like panic.
47:56SPEAKERIt's the stuff that panic came out of, right?
47:57SPEAKER- Yes, it's exactly.
47:58SPEAKERPanic is like kind of the prototypical example.
48:00SPEAKERLike "Rogue Amoeba" is another one,
48:01SPEAKERbut it's even more than just the business model.
48:03SPEAKERI mean, everybody charges, you know,
48:04SPEAKERyou're getting product keys for everything,
48:06SPEAKERbut there's even like an,
48:07SPEAKERlike there's a design ethos to it too.
48:09SPEAKERYou know, like everything has got a really nice icon.
48:12SPEAKERLike the web pages where they sell the stuff
48:14SPEAKERis all really nicely laid out.
48:15SPEAKERLike, I wonder if that's all just descended
48:17SPEAKERfrom the Mac's history as like a productivity
48:19SPEAKERand design platform.
48:20SPEAKER- Well, I think so.
48:22SPEAKERIt's, I think it's also why the App Store
48:24SPEAKERhas worked better on the Mac than it has on Windows.
48:27SPEAKERRight, I think Mac users might have been trained
48:33SPEAKERto appreciate software that's thoughtful
48:36SPEAKERand well-designed more than maybe Windows users cared about.
48:41SPEAKERLike I often think about like Tweetbot
48:43SPEAKERas a good example of this, right?
48:44SPEAKERLike I pay five bucks a year for Tweetbot happily
48:47SPEAKERbecause it serves a purpose for me
48:50SPEAKERand I like the way I like to use it
48:51SPEAKERand it makes me happy in the way
48:53SPEAKERthat the default Twitter client with ads doesn't.
48:55SPEAKER- Yeah, I also bought Tweetbot back
48:57SPEAKERwhen I used a Mac more regularly.
48:59SPEAKER- Yeah.
49:00SPEAKER- Anyway, yeah, the rogue Amoeba stuff,
49:01SPEAKERit's, the core of their stuff is basically voice meter.
49:04SPEAKERIt does exactly what voice meter does in Windows.
49:07SPEAKER- That's why it's familiar.
49:08SPEAKERI used to use that when we used a Mac
49:10SPEAKERto record podcasts at Maximum PC.
49:12SPEAKER- Yeah, our producer on the Fospod, Matt,
49:14SPEAKERrecommended Loopback, which is Loopback is the thing
49:16SPEAKERthat actually ties into the kernel
49:18SPEAKERand like creates virtual audio devices
49:20SPEAKERthat it can populate throughout every app.
49:25SPEAKERThey kind of, they compartmentalize all their functionality.
49:27SPEAKERThere's like eight different apps that they sell
49:28SPEAKERand they all do like one slightly different thing.
49:31SPEAKERAnd to get everything you want,
49:32SPEAKERit kind of just makes sense
49:33SPEAKERto get the bundle with everything.
49:35SPEAKER- Wow, what a weird coincidence.
49:36SPEAKER- Yeah, 'cause it's weird.
49:38SPEAKERThey split all the smaller bundles up in just such a way
49:41SPEAKERthat you can't quite get everything you want for podcasting
49:44SPEAKERunless you just get the whole thing.
49:45SPEAKER- This is my surprised face.
49:47SPEAKER- Yes, but, oh, and the thing I was gonna say,
49:51SPEAKERGod, dude, the security in macOS has gotten so crazy
49:53SPEAKERbecause it takes a kernel extension
49:55SPEAKERto tie into the audio hardware,
49:57SPEAKERto create the virtual devices.
49:59SPEAKERAnd the process for now allowing a kernel extension
50:02SPEAKERto be installed, it took like 10 minutes.
50:05SPEAKERYou have to reboot into recovery mode
50:07SPEAKERand go into some very low level security dialogue
50:10SPEAKERand authenticate like three times.
50:13SPEAKER- Is this like, did they provide instructions for this?
50:16SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
50:17SPEAKERThe rogue Amoeba people have a nice illustrated,
50:19SPEAKERlike here's all the things you're gonna have to do.
50:20SPEAKERAnd it's quite a few hoops.
50:21SPEAKERLike you have to enable stuff in the regular system
50:24SPEAKERperhaps thing, then reboot into recovery mode
50:26SPEAKERand enable even more, like allow more stuff
50:28SPEAKERand then reboot backend and allow even more.
50:31SPEAKERAnd then finally it'll let you install
50:33SPEAKERthat kernel extension.
50:34SPEAKERI think I appreciate as much as it's been a hassle for me
50:38SPEAKERfor the most part, like I kind of appreciate
50:40SPEAKERhow locked down macOS is at this point.
50:42SPEAKER- Well, it's kind of a one-time hassle, right?
50:44SPEAKERLike you do it once and then it's not a hassle again
50:46SPEAKERuntil you have to reinstall the machine or whatever.
50:48SPEAKER- Like it's mostly just been extra roadblocks
50:51SPEAKERto getting things done for me so far.
50:53SPEAKERBut at the same time, I appreciate that they allow
50:55SPEAKERlike kind of literally nothing to happen
50:57SPEAKERwithout your permission now.
50:58SPEAKERLike I'm trying to think, oh, people will have heard
51:01SPEAKERthe new FOSPOD with JB of VLC fame.
51:05SPEAKERHe talked about, you can screencast with VLC.
51:08SPEAKERAnd I tried that on the Mac yesterday
51:10SPEAKERbecause he had been talking about it.
51:11SPEAKERYou have to allow on a per app basis
51:13SPEAKERfor apps to capture your screen in macOS.
51:17SPEAKER- Yeah, like it's funny 'cause iOS lag behind Android
51:20SPEAKERon like granular permissions for apps for a long time.
51:24SPEAKERAnd they've, I think three versions of the OS back,
51:28SPEAKERthey kind of fixed that and it like, it's a good change.
51:32SPEAKERIt's nice to know what permissions your apps actually want.
51:34SPEAKER- I kind of, I kind of am coming around to that view.
51:37SPEAKERLike even Apple's apps that they ship
51:39SPEAKERwith the operating system, like Terminal, for example,
51:41SPEAKERlike if you, the first time you tried to like LS a directory
51:43SPEAKERin Terminal that it doesn't have,
51:45SPEAKERit's basically outside of your home directory,
51:47SPEAKERit straight up says,
51:48SPEAKERhey, Terminal does not have full disk access.
51:50SPEAKERDo you want to grant it?
51:51SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, I like that.
51:53SPEAKERI like the, hey, you can't, this app can't snoop
51:56SPEAKERon your network unless you allow it to, stuff like that.
52:00SPEAKERIt's like, it's honestly, it's, I think somebody at Apple
52:06SPEAKERrealized that that's one of their main competitive advantages
52:08SPEAKERa few years ago and in a world where, and like it works.
52:14SPEAKERLike look at what Apple flipping on,
52:19SPEAKERthe do not track for defaulting the Facebook blocking
52:24SPEAKERand the anonymous blocking of ads did to Facebook
52:29SPEAKERwhen they flipped that on a few versions of iOS ago.
52:33SPEAKERAnd I think people are finally kind of wising up,
52:36SPEAKERpeople are getting there.
52:36SPEAKERPeople are wising up to it a little bit more.
52:38SPEAKERLike I hear people who are not technical
52:41SPEAKERasking why they searched for, you know,
52:44SPEAKERthey clicked on one shoe ad and then every device
52:46SPEAKERthat they use shows them Nike and New Balance ads
52:49SPEAKERfor the next three weeks.
52:51SPEAKER- It's creepy.
52:52SPEAKER- It's creepy, yeah, agreed.
52:56SPEAKERWell, and with the stuff going on with abortion access
53:00SPEAKERin the United States right now,
53:01SPEAKERthere was a big conversation about that
53:02SPEAKERand stuff like period tracking apps
53:04SPEAKERand like what your metadata wake,
53:09SPEAKERhow, like if you live in Texas or someplace
53:12SPEAKERwhere your neighbors can rat you out
53:13SPEAKERfor getting an abortion, what does your metadata wake?
53:17SPEAKERLike the idea that Target might know you're pregnant
53:19SPEAKERbefore you or your family know you're pregnant
53:22SPEAKERis suddenly much more worrisome than it was two months ago.
53:26SPEAKER- I mean, that is hideous.
53:27SPEAKERThat is wretched, you know, like the shoe ad thing
53:29SPEAKERis just sort of creepy and inconvenient or whatever,
53:32SPEAKERbut like now we've rapidly gone to a situation
53:34SPEAKERof like dire material consequences for this stuff.
53:37SPEAKERLike it's really not good.
53:39SPEAKER- Well, yeah, the idea that somebody could subpoena
53:41SPEAKERTarget's ad network to find out, you know,
53:45SPEAKERwho was buying pregnancy tests.
53:48SPEAKERAnd yeah, it's anyway, dark times, man.
53:53SPEAKERI think that's as good a place as any to wrap it up.
53:55SPEAKEROh, what are you doing for VPNs?
53:57SPEAKERWe didn't talk about that yet.
53:58SPEAKER- So I've still got the L2TP IPsec VPN
54:01SPEAKERset up on my edge router that's built in.
54:04SPEAKER- I'm all wire guard all the time.
54:06SPEAKER- Yeah, I would like to be as well.
54:08SPEAKERThe IPsec stuff, they have hardware decode
54:13SPEAKERfor that type of encryption and it's built
54:15SPEAKERinto edge OS to set it up.
54:16SPEAKERSo I still got it.
54:18SPEAKERI set up wire guard while I was there finally,
54:21SPEAKERwhich like wire guard itself is rad.
54:23SPEAKERIt's like the whole setup process was incredibly elegant
54:26SPEAKERand cool and I enjoy doing it.
54:28SPEAKERIf you've generated SSH key pairs, it's very similar.
54:32SPEAKERIt's like kind of neat.
54:35SPEAKEROn the edge router, it's got issues.
54:37SPEAKER- You have a home assistant installed
54:39SPEAKERrunning on a Pi someplace, right?
54:41SPEAKER- I do on a Pi 4.
54:43SPEAKERI talked to our network all-star cake batter.
54:46SPEAKER- Yeah.
54:47SPEAKER- Recommended.
54:48SPEAKERWell, so you are running on a home assistant.
54:49SPEAKERSo maybe you can speak to this.
54:50SPEAKERHe said that the routing gets quite a bit more complicated
54:53SPEAKERwhen you run a wire guard on a device
54:56SPEAKERthat is not also the firewall.
54:57SPEAKER- I am not having any problems.
55:00SPEAKER- Interesting.
55:01SPEAKERSo you do have to open a port
55:02SPEAKERto the home assistant for wire guard, right?
55:03SPEAKER- Oh, so I'm using Nabu Casa.
55:06SPEAKER- Oh, right.
55:07SPEAKER- But also I do have a dynamic DNS setup.
55:11SPEAKERI can't remember.
55:13SPEAKERI don't think that there's a port open right now.
55:14SPEAKERI'll have to look.
55:16SPEAKERBut the wire guard, there must be
55:18SPEAKERor else the wire guard couldn't work.
55:19SPEAKERBut I'm running on a Pi 3 even.
55:22SPEAKERThe performance is...
55:24SPEAKERI often don't realize I'm on the VPN on my phone.
55:27SPEAKER- Wow, interesting.
55:29SPEAKERSo that was another issue.
55:30SPEAKERThere seems to be, the best I can tell,
55:32SPEAKERand this took literal GitHub issue tracking to figure out,
55:35SPEAKERbut it seems like there's a bug in Edge OS
55:37SPEAKERthat tanks wire guard performance in a lot of cases.
55:41SPEAKER- Like when you're running on the device
55:43SPEAKERor when you're running through the router?
55:44SPEAKER- It's on the router.
55:45SPEAKERIt's weird.
55:46SPEAKERSo I speed tested out there.
55:48SPEAKERTheir internet is not the fastest to begin with.
55:50SPEAKERIt's like under 160 down or something.
55:52SPEAKERI was getting like 80 megabit down with wire guard
55:56SPEAKERthrough the Edge router.
55:57SPEAKER- That seems right.
55:58SPEAKER- And 60 to 70 with the IPSec one.
56:01SPEAKERSo it actually seemed faster.
56:03SPEAKERBut whenever I would try to move something like from the NAS
56:06SPEAKERto the laptop, for example,
56:07SPEAKERI was getting like one megabit a second.
56:08SPEAKERLike it was just, performance was like non-existent
56:10SPEAKERand best I could tell looking at bugs,
56:13SPEAKERthere is a bug in Edge OS that seems like they disabled
56:16SPEAKERlike the hardware NAT acceleration.
56:19SPEAKER- When you have IPSec on or when you have wire guard on?
56:21SPEAKER- When you're using wire guard, yeah.
56:21SPEAKERAnd like they are barely supporting Edge OS at this point.
56:24SPEAKERSo like that got me thinking,
56:25SPEAKERmaybe it's time to get rid of the Edge router
56:27SPEAKERand build a router, but we'll see.
56:31SPEAKER- So I have had good,
56:33SPEAKERI've not done file transfers into the LAN,
56:35SPEAKERbut the latency and the throughput,
56:37SPEAKERlike it feels, it feels performant.
56:39SPEAKER- Yeah, like I was super excited
56:40SPEAKER'cause you see a lot of people that run wire guard at home
56:42SPEAKERtalking about like, oh, like you can set,
56:44SPEAKERoh God, there's a term for it.
56:45SPEAKERI cannot remember the term
56:46SPEAKERfor having it connected at all times.
56:48SPEAKERIs it on demand?
56:49SPEAKER- Ubiquitous or on demand or something like that.
56:51SPEAKER- There's a wire guard term for this device connects
56:54SPEAKERconstantly to the wire guard.
56:55SPEAKERBut like you see people talking about like having their
56:57SPEAKERphones and tablets connected constantly to their VPN
57:01SPEAKERat home and like, you know,
57:02SPEAKERthen you reap for the benefits of having a pie hole
57:04SPEAKERor whatever and stuff like that.
57:06SPEAKER- Like yesterday I literally hit Google
57:08SPEAKERand was like, hey, pizza delivery near me
57:10SPEAKERto find a pizza joint.
57:12SPEAKERAnd I was like, why the fuck is it showing me Pacificas?
57:15SPEAKERThe phone is so stupid.
57:17SPEAKERAnd I was like, oh right, the VPN is still on.
57:19SPEAKER- It's not the phone that's stupid.
57:21SPEAKER- Yeah, it's me, it's me.
57:22SPEAKERI was the stupid one.
57:24SPEAKERYeah, anyway, we won't make this episode of two hours long,
57:29SPEAKERbut it was fun messing around with that stuff.
57:32SPEAKERI also have all the parts on the way
57:34SPEAKERto build a pie KVM right now.
57:36SPEAKER- I'm very excited about that.
57:37SPEAKER- Super excited about,
57:41SPEAKERbut can't really speak from experience to that yet,
57:44SPEAKERbut we'll get there.
57:45SPEAKER- Yeah, that sounds like a patron episode this month.
57:47SPEAKERI can't wait to hear how that goes
57:48SPEAKER'cause that would solve some problems for me too.
57:50SPEAKER- Yeah.
57:52SPEAKER- I think this is as good a place as any to wrap it up.
57:54SPEAKERHuh, Brad?
57:54SPEAKER- Yeah.
57:55SPEAKER- Thanks to everybody for listening.
57:56SPEAKERAs always, "Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod"
57:58SPEAKERis a 100% listener supported show.
58:00SPEAKERIf you would like to find out how to support the show
58:03SPEAKERfor as little as $2 a month,
58:06SPEAKERI'm gonna go tell you that's less than a cup of coffee.
58:08SPEAKER- It is.
58:10SPEAKER- Even in these dark times.
58:13SPEAKER- You can speak from experience.
58:14SPEAKER- Yeah, I bought a cup of coffee
58:16SPEAKERand it costs less than $2.
58:18SPEAKERYou can find out how to support us at patreon.com/techpod.
58:21SPEAKERWe really appreciate all of our patrons,
58:23SPEAKERbut especially our executive producer tier patrons
58:25SPEAKERwe thank every week, including Paddle Creek Games,
58:28SPEAKERMakers of Fractured Veil, Andrew Slosky,
58:31SPEAKEROctothorpe Bunny Crimes.
58:33SPEAKERI think that's his official name now.
58:35SPEAKERJust Wedge, Jacob Chapel, Joel Krauska,
58:38SPEAKERTwinkies, Got A Pickin' Place.
58:40SPEAKEROh wow, that's an exciting development.
58:43SPEAKERAnd James Kamik, thank you all so, so much.
58:45SPEAKERWe really appreciate you.
58:46SPEAKERAnd again, it's patreon.com/techpod.
58:51SPEAKER- It is.
58:52SPEAKER- And I guess that'll do it for us this week.
58:53SPEAKER- It will.
58:55SPEAKER- We had a new, as you alluded to earlier,
58:56SPEAKERa new episode of the FOSBOD came out a couple of days ago,
59:00SPEAKERwhere we talked to Jean-Baptiste Kempf
59:02SPEAKERfrom the video LAN project, the video VLC.
59:07SPEAKER- The video LAN client?
59:08SPEAKER- I would describe him as unfiltered and raw.
59:11SPEAKER- Oh, that was a great conversation.
59:15SPEAKER- Jean-Baptiste, Jean-Baptiste did not hold much back
59:17SPEAKERon what he thinks about US patent law,
59:20SPEAKERsoftware patents, copyright.
59:22SPEAKERDRM.
59:23SPEAKER- He was ready to go, man.
59:24SPEAKER- The Blu-ray market, corporations supporting open source
59:28SPEAKERor not.
59:29SPEAKER- Whether or not IP law is bullshit.
59:33SPEAKERIt was a great conversation.
59:35SPEAKER- Yeah.
59:36SPEAKER- I didn't realize that started as a student project either
59:38SPEAKERuntil we started researching that episode.
59:40SPEAKERThat was fascinating.
59:41SPEAKER- I love the very beginning of the conversation
59:42SPEAKERwhen we like kind of did the boilerplate,
59:44SPEAKERlike, oh, you know, walk us through the background of VLC.
59:47SPEAKERLike, how did you guys get started?
59:48SPEAKERAnd like, he was like, well, it starts in the sixties.
59:51SPEAKER- Yeah.
59:51SPEAKER- Oh, okay.
59:52SPEAKER- In the beginning there was the command line.
59:55SPEAKER- It was very primordial, but yeah,
59:56SPEAKERthat was a fascinating conversation.
59:58SPEAKERHe had some very forthright answers about a lot of stuff
1:00:01SPEAKERthat I was very pleased to hear.
1:00:04SPEAKER- It was awesome.
1:00:04SPEAKERYeah, it was a good talk.
1:00:05SPEAKERYou can find out more about the FOSBOD
1:00:07SPEAKERat fosbod.contact.town.
1:00:10SPEAKERAnd in the meantime, I guess we'll see you all next week.