Special Episode: Return of Manhattanhenge

00:00SPEAKER- Listen, I'm not here to put anybody on blast or anything.

00:03SPEAKER- Oh no.

00:03SPEAKER- I'm not gonna name any names.

00:06SPEAKER- Are you upset?

00:07SPEAKERAre you feuding with a brand?

00:08SPEAKER- Well, hang on.

00:09SPEAKERI can't, I just said I'm not gonna name any names.

00:11SPEAKER- It sounds like you're feuding with a brand, Brad.

00:13SPEAKER- Someone recently may have described my backup strategy

00:20SPEAKERfor the archives/projects for this podcast

00:24SPEAKERas, and I quote, maniacal.

00:27SPEAKER- Uh-huh.

00:28SPEAKER- I just want to point out, the very next week.

00:32SPEAKER- Yeah.

00:33SPEAKER- I need to dip into my archive of project files

00:35SPEAKERfor this episode and make extensive use of them.

00:41SPEAKER- I feel pretty on blast here.

00:43SPEAKERI was hoping we were gonna be talking about brands,

00:45SPEAKERbut now, yes, I did describe,

00:49SPEAKERI did say that he is, I did not say maniacal.

00:53SPEAKERI said you were kind of a maniac about archiving stuff.

00:56SPEAKERThat's different than maniacal.

00:57SPEAKER- Are you sure?

00:59SPEAKERHang on.

00:59SPEAKER- I'm reading the email right now.

01:01SPEAKERI said, I think Brad will probably want to archive

01:03SPEAKERthe source files since he's kind of a maniac

01:05SPEAKERabout archiving stuff.

01:06SPEAKER- Okay, since I said, and I quote, maniacal,

01:08SPEAKERit's good to set the record straight.

01:09SPEAKER- Yeah, I just want to get full disclosure out there.

01:11SPEAKERI did not say you were maniacal.

01:13SPEAKERThere was no laughing involved.

01:14SPEAKER- Technically, you used the noun form and not the adjective.

01:18SPEAKERI guess I'll give you that, but that's not much.

01:21SPEAKER- Look, okay, so I'm hoisted by my own Picard here, I know.

01:24SPEAKER(laughing)

01:27SPEAKERI know it's not Picard, but I like it better that way.

01:29SPEAKER- I mean, see, if I didn't have all those audacity projects,

01:32SPEAKERseven zipped on my NAS, we would just have to go download

01:35SPEAKERthe MP3 and edit that and double compress it,

01:37SPEAKERand nobody wants that.

01:38SPEAKER- I'm never going to hear the end of this.

01:40SPEAKEROkay, so yes, you're right to back up everything,

01:44SPEAKERsource files and all.

01:45SPEAKER- Let's see, hang on, I'm just going to Alt+Enter

01:47SPEAKERon this tech pod folder and see how much space we're talking.

01:52SPEAKER64.9 gigabytes to date to archive the raw source files,

01:56SPEAKERproject files for this entire podcast so far.

01:59SPEAKER- I didn't say you were making a mistake.

02:01SPEAKERI just was disclosing with our new editor for the FOSS pod

02:06SPEAKERthat you were going to want an excessive amount

02:09SPEAKERof backup potentially, and I was right to warn her.

02:12SPEAKER- Gosh, wait, so these are all audacity projects.

02:14SPEAKERHow big do you think, can I say what she uses

02:16SPEAKERto edit Pro Tools?

02:18SPEAKER- Yeah, she uses Pro Tools.

02:19SPEAKER- How big do you think Pro Tools projects are?

02:21SPEAKER- They can be the same, it's just the WAV files

02:22SPEAKERdon't get bigger.

02:24SPEAKER- Oh, of course, I just don't know how much metadata

02:25SPEAKERor weird other stuff is in there.

02:27SPEAKER- I mean, it's not like metadata for audio editing

02:29SPEAKERis like, it's like, yeah, it's nothing.

02:32SPEAKER- It's text probably, highly compressible.

02:34SPEAKER- Okay, so I guess we should tell people

02:36SPEAKERwhat we're doing this week.

02:37SPEAKER- Yeah, landmark legislation is in the works, let's say.

02:43SPEAKERMaybe.

02:44SPEAKER- Look, we'll get into that 'cause it's complicated,

02:46SPEAKERbut daylight savings was in the news,

02:49SPEAKERnot just because last week was daylight savings

02:50SPEAKERspring forward week, the one where everybody has car wrecks

02:53SPEAKERthe morning after, but because there was legislation

02:57SPEAKERpassed in the Senate, maybe spuriously, I don't know,

03:03SPEAKERabout making daylight savings time permanent,

03:06SPEAKERwhich people who've listened to the show for a long time

03:08SPEAKERwill remember may or may not be a good idea.

03:12SPEAKERWe're gonna get into it, we're gonna recap that,

03:13SPEAKERthen we're gonna just rerun the daylight savings time

03:15SPEAKERepisode because it's more relevant now than it ever was

03:18SPEAKERbefore and we'll also do some other stuff at the end.

03:22SPEAKERWe'll tack on, we had some great letters in from listeners

03:25SPEAKERwho actually work in the field.

03:28SPEAKERBut first we're gonna, I guess, play the music.

03:32SPEAKER(upbeat music)

03:52SPEAKER(upbeat music)

04:00SPEAKER- Welcome to Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod, I'm Will.

04:02SPEAKER- I am Brad, hello.

04:04SPEAKER- Hi, for a minute there I couldn't remember

04:05SPEAKERif it was past tense or future tense, so.

04:07SPEAKER- How was I, how were you, is that what you were gonna say?

04:11SPEAKER- Are we making or are we made, I can't remember.

04:13SPEAKER- Dude, I think I, my brain is definitely still in the past.

04:16SPEAKERI don't know.

04:17SPEAKER- You've messed up, you've messed up your sleep real bad

04:20SPEAKERthe last couple of weeks, huh?

04:22SPEAKER- I have messed myself up in a way that I, oh my God,

04:24SPEAKERoh, look, I took numerous business trips to Japan

04:28SPEAKERin my 20s, this is worse jet lag than that by a lot.

04:33SPEAKER- I'm gonna tell you, okay, so your first mistake

04:36SPEAKERwas you took the red eye to the East Coast,

04:37SPEAKERwhich doesn't seem like that big a deal.

04:39SPEAKER- Let me just very quickly recount

04:42SPEAKERthe last like 10, 11 days of sleep for me.

04:44SPEAKER- Okay.

04:45SPEAKER- So last Wednesday night, I took a red eye

04:46SPEAKERto the East Coast, so that meant getting up

04:49SPEAKERon normal California time, Wednesday morning,

04:51SPEAKERworking a full day and then going to the airport,

04:53SPEAKERtaking an overnight flight with a connection.

04:57SPEAKER- Oh.

04:58SPEAKER- That upon arriving turned out to be delayed.

05:00SPEAKERSo I took an overnight flight, did not sleep on that flight

05:04SPEAKER'cause who sleeps on planes?

05:05SPEAKERGot to my destination and then sat there listening to them

05:09SPEAKERmake announcement after announcement saying,

05:11SPEAKERhey, we're still waiting on the plane,

05:13SPEAKERmaintenance, something, something,

05:14SPEAKERwe don't have a plane yet.

05:15SPEAKERAnd then finally the plane showed up

05:16SPEAKERand then one of the flight attendants was MIA.

05:19SPEAKER- Oh no.

05:20SPEAKER- So finally got to my final destination

05:23SPEAKERat about 1 p.m. local time the following day,

05:27SPEAKERmapped for like an hour and a half or something,

05:29SPEAKERgot up and powered through, got two or three nights,

05:34SPEAKERI'm trying to remember, it was two or three nights

05:35SPEAKERafter that of like okay but not adequate sleep

05:38SPEAKER'cause I was on a different time zone and whatever.

05:39SPEAKER- Yeah.

05:41SPEAKER- The night that daylight savings time went into effect,

05:44SPEAKERmeaning that we lost an hour,

05:46SPEAKERI also, for reasons that I won't get into,

05:49SPEAKERgot about two to three hours of sleep

05:51SPEAKERand then had to be awakened to deal with some stuff

05:55SPEAKERunexpectedly, so both got about three hours of sleep

06:00SPEAKERthat night right out, three days after the red eye

06:02SPEAKERplus daylight savings times go into effect.

06:05SPEAKERSo like at that point I thought I could like,

06:08SPEAKERI was like I should not operate a car right now,

06:10SPEAKERI should not operate heavy machinery,

06:13SPEAKERI can barely walk straight, then like five or what,

06:17SPEAKERfour or five days after that of trying to fall asleep

06:21SPEAKERwith my body thinking it was about four hours,

06:23SPEAKERor I'm sorry, trying to fall asleep about four hours.

06:28SPEAKERDude, I can't even get it straight right now,

06:29SPEAKERoh my God, this is how out of it I am.

06:32SPEAKERIt was East Coast time plus an hour,

06:33SPEAKERit was a four hour difference basically.

06:35SPEAKER- You were like in Newfoundland basically.

06:37SPEAKER- Like I was trying to fall asleep at a time

06:39SPEAKERthat my body thought it was like,

06:40SPEAKERmy body was like wait, it's six, seven p.m.,

06:42SPEAKERwhat are you doing, you can't sleep right now.

06:44SPEAKERSo it was like four or five days of that

06:46SPEAKERand I just started getting used to local time

06:47SPEAKERand then immediately flew back on an evening flight

06:51SPEAKERthat was about an eight hour trip,

06:52SPEAKERwhich in effect had me getting back home at about 4 a.m.

06:58SPEAKERon the time zone that my body now thought it was on.

07:00SPEAKERSo sorry for that long-winded explanation,

07:03SPEAKERbut like I am so--

07:05SPEAKER- Your body thinks you're in Japan right now basically.

07:07SPEAKER- I'm so disoriented right now in terms of what time

07:09SPEAKERit should be and how much sleep I've been getting

07:11SPEAKERnight to night and just like,

07:12SPEAKERhey, sorry for that rambling preamble here,

07:15SPEAKERbut let that just be an example of why people

07:17SPEAKERshouldn't mess with their sleep schedules.

07:19SPEAKER- Yeah, it's funny, the red eye,

07:22SPEAKERwhen I was in my late 20s and early 30s,

07:24SPEAKERGina and I used to take the red eye back to the East Coast

07:25SPEAKERto see family all the time.

07:26SPEAKERWe'd like fly through Atlanta and then connect

07:28SPEAKERand like that was an unpleasant experience,

07:31SPEAKERbut it wasn't really that,

07:32SPEAKERlike you'd kind of drowse a little bit on the plane

07:34SPEAKERand then you'd wake up and you'd like,

07:37SPEAKERyour goal was just to stay awake

07:38SPEAKERuntil like six or seven o'clock at night.

07:40SPEAKERSo you could just do a long sleep the next day.

07:42SPEAKER- Totally, I also did that exact same thing

07:45SPEAKERlike two, three times a year in my 20s

07:46SPEAKERand it was totally fine.

07:47SPEAKERYou know, like I would hit the ground running

07:49SPEAKERwhen we got there and just like stay up all day

07:51SPEAKERand it was like, ah, whatever, like I'll be fine.

07:54SPEAKER- Around the time I turned 40,

07:56SPEAKERwe went to New York with Tested

07:58SPEAKERwith a kind of big crew people for Maker Faire one year.

08:01SPEAKERAnd when we arrived in New York,

08:03SPEAKERour Airbnb guy had texted us over the flight time

08:07SPEAKERand was like, hey, the rooms, your house

08:10SPEAKERisn't gonna be ready until four o'clock.

08:12SPEAKERAnd this was at six o'clock in the morning.

08:14SPEAKERWe thought we had to make it into like 10 o'clock.

08:15SPEAKERSo we were like, okay, we'll get our bags,

08:17SPEAKERwe'll get an Uber, we'll go to the house

08:20SPEAKERand like find a diner or something, have some breakfast.

08:22SPEAKERAnd then we'll just go over to the house

08:24SPEAKERand check in and we'll be good.

08:26SPEAKERAnd he got there and he was like,

08:27SPEAKERoh God, it's not ready until three, what the hell, man.

08:32SPEAKERSo we then called a friend

08:34SPEAKERwho had a like a fifth floor walk up in Midtown

08:38SPEAKERnear where our house was.

08:39SPEAKERAnd we were like, hey, can we dump off eight people's

08:42SPEAKERworth of bags and camera gear and stuff at your apartment?

08:45SPEAKERHe's like, and this is at seven o'clock,

08:49SPEAKEReight o'clock in the morning, something on a Saturday.

08:50SPEAKERHe was like, yeah.

08:53SPEAKERSo we carry all of our stuff up the stairs.

08:56SPEAKERWe get into his apartment and I hadn't really appreciated

08:59SPEAKERwhat a like 25, 30 year old person's Midtown Manhattan

09:03SPEAKERapartment was gonna be like.

09:04SPEAKERBut it was basically like the size

09:06SPEAKERof a pretty good walk-in closet.

09:09SPEAKERSo we dumped all our stuff there,

09:10SPEAKERwent to the Lincoln Center movie theater

09:11SPEAKER'cause we were like, okay, what can we do

09:13SPEAKERthat we can like all go to sleep in

09:14SPEAKERand like, everything's gonna be,

09:15SPEAKERnobody's gonna be upset with us.

09:17SPEAKERSo we like, we went to a movie.

09:19SPEAKERWe went to see Dread in 3D

09:21SPEAKERat the Lincoln Center movie theater.

09:24SPEAKERAnd that was the last time I took a red eye.

09:26SPEAKERI'm like, like it ruined me.

09:28SPEAKERI was broken for like three days afterwards.

09:31SPEAKERYep, yep, like it's just, there's a certain,

09:34SPEAKERlike I'll do it in an emergency

09:36SPEAKERand I'll do it if it's like,

09:38SPEAKERif I can afford business class

09:39SPEAKERand I can like have the reclining seats

09:41SPEAKERthat go all the way flat and I can just go to sleep.

09:43SPEAKERI might do it.

09:44SPEAKEREven then, man, I don't know.

09:45SPEAKERAlso, I'm shocked you went for Dread

09:47SPEAKERand not like the most like dull period drama you could find.

09:51SPEAKERLook, it was the weekend that Dread opened

09:53SPEAKERand they had it on like 18 screens there

09:55SPEAKERof a 20 screen theater.

09:57SPEAKERAnd also we kind of wanted to see Dread.

09:58SPEAKERSo it turns out we didn't think Dread was gonna be good

10:00SPEAKERand then Dread ripped, so nobody slept.

10:02SPEAKERI mean, I slept maybe like 20 minutes.

10:03SPEAKERAnyway. Oops, you picked a good movie.

10:05SPEAKERYeah.

10:07SPEAKERAnyway, so yeah, all of that said,

10:10SPEAKERwe are here to talk about the recent happenings

10:14SPEAKERin the United States Senate

10:15SPEAKERaround potentially making daily savings time permanent.

10:19SPEAKERSo Marco Rubio from Florida,

10:22SPEAKERRepublican from Florida, Patty Murray,

10:23SPEAKERa Democrat from Washington state.

10:27SPEAKERIn the Senate, there's this thing called unanimous consent,

10:29SPEAKERwhere if you go up and you say,

10:31SPEAKER"Hey, I wanna pass this bill without anybody.

10:34SPEAKER"There's no need to talk about it.

10:36SPEAKER"We all agree."

10:36SPEAKERAnd usually they use this for stuff like naming bridges

10:40SPEAKERand authorization for things

10:44SPEAKERthat like nobody's gonna disagree, agree with.

10:46SPEAKERLike there's no, so it's like,

10:49SPEAKERit's a tool to bypass all of the normal debate

10:51SPEAKERand conversation and committee stuff and all of that.

10:53SPEAKERYou just take the bill and you're like,

10:54SPEAKER"Hey, I think that this bill is good.

10:57SPEAKER"Does anybody disagree?"

10:58SPEAKERAnd as long as nobody says no, it just passes.

11:01SPEAKERSo it's, in retrospect, it's maybe a bad idea

11:05SPEAKERbecause the whole thing works.

11:07SPEAKERBasically the whole thing works

11:09SPEAKERbecause the offices of the senators

11:11SPEAKERwho are pushing the bill forward

11:13SPEAKERare supposed to call all the other senators offices,

11:16SPEAKERtheir legislative offices.

11:17SPEAKERThe people, legislative offices are the people

11:20SPEAKERthat are employed by the senator who are like reading

11:24SPEAKERand they're usually lawyers or lawyer adjacent,

11:26SPEAKERparalegal, something like that.

11:27SPEAKERThey read the law, they make sure that they agree with it,

11:31SPEAKERmake sure there's no unintended side effects.

11:32SPEAKERThey suggest changes to the language

11:35SPEAKERthat close loopholes and stuff like that.

11:37SPEAKERAnd then usually the sponsors of the bill

11:40SPEAKERare supposed to talk to those people and say,

11:42SPEAKER"Hey, does your senator have a problem with this?"

11:44SPEAKERAnd if somebody says yes,

11:45SPEAKERthen they go through the normal path.

11:47SPEAKERThey don't try to unanimous consent it anyway.

11:51SPEAKERIt seems like Rubio's team did that

11:53SPEAKERand Murray's team did that, but maybe not everybody,

11:56SPEAKERmaybe not everybody realized what they were actually

11:58SPEAKERagreeing to.

11:58SPEAKERThey thought it was maybe a little more ceremonial

12:00SPEAKERin some cases.

12:03SPEAKERI don't think anybody wants to come out and say,

12:04SPEAKER"Hey, yo, we didn't read this,"

12:06SPEAKERbut we weren't there to say no to the unanimous consent.

12:10SPEAKERSo, okay, so they passed this bill

12:13SPEAKERwith the unanimous consent.

12:14SPEAKER- Yeah, just to spell it out real quick,

12:17SPEAKERthe upshot of the bill is to make daylight savings permanent

12:20SPEAKERstarting in November of 2023.

12:22SPEAKER- Right, so end the twice a year, the semiannual clock change

12:28SPEAKERyes, in November, 2023, because they said,

12:30SPEAKERlike airlines and well, you name it,

12:33SPEAKERlike practically every institution-

12:34SPEAKER- Computers, it turns out.

12:35SPEAKER- On the face of the earth is gonna have to make

12:37SPEAKERsome kind of adjustment around this.

12:39SPEAKERSo we're gonna give people kind of an 18 month window

12:42SPEAKERto do that.

12:43SPEAKER- Exactly.

12:44SPEAKER- That's where it stands right now past the Senate.

12:46SPEAKERAnd then if you're not familiar with peculiarities

12:50SPEAKERof the United States government,

12:52SPEAKERit now has to go to the House

12:54SPEAKERwhere it will be taken up there and either passed or not.

12:58SPEAKERSo before we get to that part,

13:00SPEAKERwhat is this at the time of this recording,

13:01SPEAKERmaybe five day old news, something like that?

13:03SPEAKERIt was kind of mid last week.

13:04SPEAKER- It's in that realm, I believe, yeah.

13:07SPEAKER- I was, I suspect you were of a similar mind.

13:09SPEAKERI was very torn when I saw this come down.

13:11SPEAKERI initially, I was extremely excited

13:13SPEAKERjust to see that there was renewed will

13:15SPEAKERto get rid of the time change.

13:17SPEAKER- Yeah, and then they did it the wrong way.

13:18SPEAKER- And that, well, do you mean legislatively

13:20SPEAKERor in terms of the-

13:22SPEAKER- Kind of both, but-

13:23SPEAKER- Well, that as well, it sounds like,

13:25SPEAKERbut the thing I was gonna say is like,

13:26SPEAKERthey picked the wrong one.

13:28SPEAKER- Yeah, that's the thing.

13:30SPEAKER- A, I'm excited that they seem

13:31SPEAKERto want to abolish the time change.

13:33SPEAKERB, I'm kind of bummed that they didn't pick the one

13:35SPEAKERthat is healthy and natural.

13:37SPEAKER- Well, okay, so the TLDR on what's going on,

13:40SPEAKERFrank Pallone Jr., who's a Democrat from New Jersey,

13:42SPEAKERchairs the House Energy and Commerce Committee,

13:44SPEAKERwhich is where time policy lives,

13:47SPEAKERactually had a hearing earlier,

13:50SPEAKERthe week before daylight savings time changed, I believe,

13:55SPEAKERto prevent the daylight savings time change from happening.

14:00SPEAKERSo he wanted to do that.

14:00SPEAKERThey had a hearing about doing it the right way

14:02SPEAKERand couldn't get any,

14:03SPEAKERnothing happened out of that, basically.

14:06SPEAKERHis feeling is that there's no consensus in the House.

14:10SPEAKERThis, I'll actually read this quote.

14:11SPEAKERThis is a quote from Pallone

14:14SPEAKERthat was in the Washington Post, I think.

14:16SPEAKERHe says, "There isn't a consensus, in my opinion,

14:18SPEAKER"in the House, or even generally at this point,

14:20SPEAKER"about whether we should have standard

14:21SPEAKER"versus daylight savings as the permanent time.

14:24SPEAKER"Immediately after the Senate passed the bill,

14:25SPEAKER"I had members come up to me on the floor and say,

14:27SPEAKER"'Oh, don't do that, I want the standard time,' he added,

14:29SPEAKER"declining to identify the lawmakers."

14:32SPEAKERWe've done this before, we talk about this in the episode.

14:34SPEAKERWe tried this in 1974, it didn't stick.

14:37SPEAKERRussia tried it in like 2012, I think, or 2008.

14:40SPEAKERI can't remember, they did it for like three years

14:41SPEAKERbefore everybody got so pissed off that they turned it off.

14:44SPEAKERBrazil is doing it right now, and they're upset

14:47SPEAKERbecause it's dark, it's light until like 10 o'clock at night

14:51SPEAKERand dark at 5 a.m., anyway, they're close to the equator,

14:54SPEAKERthey have a different set of problems than we have, but.

14:57SPEAKER- Well, I mean, to put that in perspective,

14:59SPEAKERI didn't realize, I mean, we talked about this

15:00SPEAKERin that episode last November, and I had forgotten some

15:02SPEAKERof it, but in some of these Washington Post stories

15:04SPEAKERthat we will put in the show notes, as an example,

15:08SPEAKERDetroit, under this plan, would have significant numbers

15:12SPEAKERof days a year where the sunrise, like it wasn't fully light

15:15SPEAKERuntil like 9 a.m., which is just unworkable

15:18SPEAKERfrom any perspective.

15:20SPEAKER- So my guess is that this stall's in the house,

15:23SPEAKERbut I don't know for sure, like we're not legislative

15:26SPEAKERexperts, we're yada yada, it seems like nobody

15:29SPEAKERin the house is gonna take up this torch,

15:31SPEAKERand this is just some posturing.

15:33SPEAKER- Well, so, I mean, again, I'm certainly not one

15:36SPEAKERto read congressional tea leaves or anything,

15:37SPEAKERbut it seems like there's pretty unified will

15:39SPEAKERto make a change, like which change to make obviously

15:43SPEAKERis up in the air, but it seems like everyone I've seen

15:46SPEAKERin Congress weigh in on this seems to want to get rid

15:49SPEAKERof the time change.

15:50SPEAKER- Well, okay, so one of the interesting things about this

15:53SPEAKERis that, and I'm looking for the quote right now,

15:56SPEAKERbut I don't think I'm gonna find it,

15:57SPEAKERgenerally speaking, there's real, real incentive

16:02SPEAKERto get this done for about two weeks a year.

16:04SPEAKER- Yes, that is-- - One is the week after

16:06SPEAKERspringing forward, and the other is the week

16:08SPEAKERafter falling back.

16:09SPEAKERSo we're probably out of the window already.

16:10SPEAKER- Oh my God, that is like the most grim commentary,

16:13SPEAKERwell, maybe not the most grim these days,

16:16SPEAKERbut like that's one of the most kind of disheartening

16:20SPEAKERcommentaries I've seen on our legislative process,

16:23SPEAKERand again, these stories will be in the show notes

16:24SPEAKERthat yes, they basically say like, yeah,

16:26SPEAKERthere's about a two week window after the time change

16:28SPEAKERevery year before any action to get done,

16:30SPEAKERand then everybody's just gonna forget about it again,

16:32SPEAKERand also the one in the fall is right around election time.

16:37SPEAKER- Yeah, so the other thing, we get into this in the episode,

16:40SPEAKERbut the impacts on this are greater for people

16:43SPEAKERwho live in the northwest corners of time zones,

16:46SPEAKERso like Montana and whatever the northwest corner

16:49SPEAKERof central time is, I think it's Minnesota,

16:51SPEAKERbut I'm not sure.

16:54SPEAKERThere's a lot to it, we actually had a chronobiologist

16:57SPEAKERwrite in after we recorded this episode,

16:58SPEAKERso we thought there was value in putting both those,

17:01SPEAKERboth the episode and the response together.

17:04SPEAKERWe had multiple other people write in

17:06SPEAKERsupporting the views espoused by the chronobiologist

17:09SPEAKERwho wrote in anonymously, so I feel pretty good

17:11SPEAKERabout including that, and the science has continued

17:17SPEAKERto come out in the time since this ran last year,

17:21SPEAKERcontinues to support the stuff that we talked about.

17:23SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, Pallone in here in one of these stories

17:26SPEAKERis quoted, or they just said he is seeking this,

17:30SPEAKERmaybe they didn't actually quote him directly,

17:32SPEAKERbut he wants more study, which on the one hand,

17:34SPEAKERmore evidence that standard time is healthier

17:37SPEAKERthan daylight savings time would be useful to have,

17:40SPEAKERon the other hand, if that just introduces

17:42SPEAKEReven further delays in this whole process,

17:43SPEAKERit does make you worry that it's just going to die

17:46SPEAKERon the vine yet again, but I don't know,

17:48SPEAKERyou tell me, obviously I was not alive in what,

17:51SPEAKER'74 or whatever, when I tried this last time, I know,

17:55SPEAKERyou almost were, I was close, but in my lifetime,

17:58SPEAKERI don't remember seeing this much political will

18:01SPEAKERaround this issue to make a change this dramatic,

18:04SPEAKERso I hope it's going to stick this time,

18:06SPEAKER'cause I do, I mean, I don't know a single person

18:08SPEAKERwho likes changing the time.

18:10SPEAKER- No, no, I mean, I think we all agree

18:12SPEAKERthat changing the time is bad, the question is,

18:14SPEAKERwhich way do we go?

18:16SPEAKER- There's obviously disagreement on which one to land on,

18:18SPEAKERand unfortunately, if there's enough gridlock,

18:20SPEAKERwe might just end up maintaining the status quo,

18:22SPEAKERbut I think if it really came down to it,

18:25SPEAKERI shouldn't say this, I would take permanent daylight

18:28SPEAKERsavings over keeping the current, keeping the back and forth.

18:32SPEAKERI mean, it's interesting-- - It's not what I want,

18:34SPEAKERbut I would take permanent anything

18:36SPEAKERover the current situation,

18:37SPEAKERalthough I would much prefer standard time.

18:39SPEAKER- It's kind of interesting, because I didn't realize

18:41SPEAKERthat the status quo, I didn't realize that a bunch

18:46SPEAKERof Southern states have voted to have permanent

18:48SPEAKERdaylight savings and are prohibited from doing that

18:50SPEAKERby the terms of the 1974 law.

18:53SPEAKER- I think we mentioned that in the episode,

18:54SPEAKERit's been about six months since we did it,

18:56SPEAKERI think we talked about like Seattle or Washington state,

18:58SPEAKERI believe also has, like several states

19:00SPEAKERhave passed legislation, but none of them can enact it

19:03SPEAKERuntil it's approved federally.

19:05SPEAKER- Yeah. - So wait, actually,

19:06SPEAKERwhat kind of can of worms does that open where,

19:08SPEAKERI mean, I assume the federal government dictates

19:10SPEAKERwhat happens, right?

19:11SPEAKER- The federal government's gonna dictate what happens,

19:13SPEAKERpresumably, the fourth option is that they could say,

19:16SPEAKERokay, states' rights, every state decides

19:19SPEAKERwhat they're gonna do themselves.

19:20SPEAKER- That's the true nightmare scenario

19:21SPEAKERthat I was about to bring up, is that a possibility

19:24SPEAKERwhere different states pass different legislation

19:26SPEAKERon their own, and then you have to figure out time zones

19:29SPEAKERby state as well as by time zone?

19:31SPEAKER- I mean, there are, that opens a real, like,

19:35SPEAKERan administrative can of worms is what I would call that.

19:38SPEAKERSo let's hope that that doesn't happen,

19:40SPEAKERI don't know, we'll see.

19:42SPEAKERI think we're going to, I mean, I think we'll know more

19:46SPEAKERabout this next couple of weeks, like the next of the pro,

19:50SPEAKERof the positive windows for this to happen,

19:54SPEAKERfor this legislation to pass the House isn't until November

19:57SPEAKERwhen the time falls back again.

20:00SPEAKERAnd obviously, that's like a week before the election,

20:04SPEAKERand it's right before, it's while they're in recess,

20:06SPEAKERso it's not gonna happen then.

20:07SPEAKER- Also, of the two, the one in the fall

20:09SPEAKERis the one people actually like,

20:10SPEAKERbecause they get more sleep, right?

20:11SPEAKER- They get an extra hour of sleep.

20:13SPEAKER- The one that we just passed is the absolute nadir

20:15SPEAKERof enthusiasm around this whole model, and so--

20:19SPEAKER- Yeah.

20:20SPEAKER- People are not as crotchety in November about it

20:22SPEAKERbecause they get more sleep instead of less.

20:24SPEAKER- And I think, I mean, I think we talked about this

20:25SPEAKERin the episode a little bit, but the basic idea,

20:28SPEAKERthe problem with daylight savings time

20:32SPEAKERis that most people's circadian rhythms

20:38SPEAKERare really tied to sunrise, and that seeing the sunlight

20:41SPEAKERat the start of the day is what starts a lot of things

20:43SPEAKERlike cortisone and hormone production

20:45SPEAKERand all sorts of stuff like that that makes,

20:47SPEAKERthat is important, it turns out, theoretically at least,

20:50SPEAKERfor keeping us healthy.

20:51SPEAKERWe get into the science, and there's a bunch of studies

20:52SPEAKERand all that stuff in the episode.

20:53SPEAKERSo I think that's as good a place as any

20:55SPEAKERto kick it off, probably.

20:57SPEAKERMake sure, if you listen to the episode,

20:59SPEAKERif you already listened to it, apologies.

21:01SPEAKERWe'll be back next week either with a Q&A

21:03SPEAKERor an episode about Mac stuff.

21:04SPEAKERWe're kind of TBD on that.

21:06SPEAKERIt's normally a Q&A episode week, but it may be,

21:09SPEAKERit may be a, we may skip a week and talk about new Apple

21:15SPEAKERstuff 'cause you're getting a new phone.

21:17SPEAKERI've gotten, we wanna talk about,

21:19SPEAKERI wanna spend time talking about the watch

21:20SPEAKER'cause I have a really weird relationship with the watch

21:23SPEAKERthat I've got around Christmas time.

21:24SPEAKER- Interesting, interesting.

21:25SPEAKERSo yeah, so, and I just spent my first full week

21:27SPEAKERon an M1 Mac, so I've got the whole experience

21:29SPEAKERof trying to track down ARM versions of applications,

21:33SPEAKERand I think there's interesting stuff around the mess

21:37SPEAKERthat 5G and millimeter wave have become, apparently,

21:40SPEAKERthat I was not aware of until this iPhone SE announcement.

21:42SPEAKERThere's a lot of stuff, it's not so much that Apple event

21:45SPEAKERthat happened, it was fairly uneventful, but there's,

21:48SPEAKERI think there's a lot of stuff around their M1

21:50SPEAKERand M2 roadmap for their ARM CPUs and like this 5G stuff,

21:54SPEAKERand there's a lot of tangential topics

21:56SPEAKERthat might be interesting to cover there.

21:59SPEAKER- So that'll be next week, make sure you stick around

22:01SPEAKERfor the question from the chronobiologist,

22:03SPEAKERthe question and further comment from the chronobiologist

22:05SPEAKER'cause it was really interesting

22:06SPEAKERand I learned a lot from that.

22:08SPEAKERAnd yeah, thanks everybody for listening.

22:10SPEAKERHere's the daylight savings, here's,

22:13SPEAKERI think we called it welcome to Manhattanhenge.

22:15SPEAKER- Yes, Manhattan, I'd still like to see

22:18SPEAKERManhattanhenge sometime.

22:20SPEAKER- I mean, look, we can go to New York this year if we want.

22:22SPEAKER(upbeat music)

22:28SPEAKER- Welcome to Brad and Will Made a Tech Bot, I'm Will.

22:31SPEAKER- I'm Brad, hello.

22:32SPEAKER- That was a cheery way to start a show.

22:34SPEAKER- Yeah.

22:36SPEAKER- I didn't expect you to go straight

22:37SPEAKERto like get small group off world to preserve the species.

22:43SPEAKER- There was a Disney,

22:45SPEAKERdo you remember like the Disney Sunday night movie

22:47SPEAKERthat used to be on ABC when we were kids?

22:49SPEAKER- Oh yeah.

22:50SPEAKER- Like sometimes it would be like Benji or some dog thing,

22:52SPEAKERlike the Incredible Journey or something.

22:54SPEAKERBut one like three week period, two or three week period,

22:58SPEAKERthey had a like six hour movie that was about these kids

23:03SPEAKERthat got launched on a spaceship that went like

23:07SPEAKERslightly faster than the speed of light

23:08SPEAKERand they were going to another, it was like a big,

23:11SPEAKERit was like, it was kind of a weird hard sci-fi thing

23:14SPEAKERfor TV in the 80s.

23:16SPEAKERAnd like, I remember two things about it.

23:19SPEAKEROne is that I think the ship could come apart

23:21SPEAKERin a fun, interesting way that was like all effectsy

23:23SPEAKERand like good model shots.

23:24SPEAKERAnd the other was that the kids were teenagers

23:27SPEAKERand there was only one adult on the ship.

23:28SPEAKERSo it sounded pretty good and they didn't interest

23:31SPEAKERthe inherent horniness of the situation at all.

23:34SPEAKER- It was the Disney Sunday night movie, come on.

23:36SPEAKER- Yeah.

23:36SPEAKERBut like the kids got to a point where they caught up

23:39SPEAKERwith the radio waves emanating from the earth

23:42SPEAKERand they were like, oh man, I love this song.

23:44SPEAKERAnd they changed the course of the ship

23:46SPEAKERto follow the songs that they wanted to hear.

23:48SPEAKER- That is the most teenager thing.

23:49SPEAKER- Yeah, it cracked me up.

23:51SPEAKER- Except for the part where teenagers in the 80s

23:54SPEAKERare like, oh, who knows when this was set.

23:55SPEAKERBut the part where modern teenagers wanted to listen

23:58SPEAKERto popular music from the 1930s, I don't know.

24:01SPEAKER- You know, the kids always like old stuff.

24:03SPEAKERLike I remember when I was in high school,

24:05SPEAKERlike 70s, like Led Zeppelin and Eagles

24:08SPEAKERand all that stuff was popular again.

24:10SPEAKERIt'd come back around.

24:10SPEAKER- That had gotten into the squarely like classic rock retro,

24:14SPEAKERkind of cool.

24:15SPEAKER- Yeah, but like there was a retro cool rock at that point,

24:18SPEAKERwhich was like late sixties, early seventies,

24:20SPEAKERlike Beatles to probably pre-disco, right?

24:24SPEAKER- Yeah, okay.

24:24SPEAKERBut I mean, 80 to 90 year old popular music,

24:26SPEAKERI don't know.

24:27SPEAKER- Well, I mean, I don't know, people listen to blues.

24:32SPEAKER- Yeah, okay, fair.

24:33SPEAKER- You listen to "Hound Dog",

24:34SPEAKERyou listen to the horny 45s of the 1940s.

24:38SPEAKER- The horny 45s.

24:39SPEAKER- Yeah, this is a real, I've said horny twice

24:42SPEAKERin this episode for three times now.

24:43SPEAKERThis is a dangerous trend.

24:45SPEAKER- Well, okay, that's a perfect segue

24:47SPEAKERinto the horniest topic imaginable.

24:49SPEAKER- Yeah.

24:50SPEAKER- Daylight savings time.

24:52SPEAKER- This was a suggestion from a listener.

24:54SPEAKER- Uh-huh, yes.

24:56SPEAKER- I think it was, it turned out to be fascinating.

24:59SPEAKER- Yeah, there's a lot here.

25:00SPEAKERThere's a lot here that I didn't know.

25:02SPEAKERThere was some stuff here that I thought I knew

25:05SPEAKERand did in fact know, what am I saying?

25:07SPEAKERLet's talk about it.

25:08SPEAKER- There's a lot of myths.

25:09SPEAKERThere's a lot of daylight savings trends, myths.

25:11SPEAKERThere's a lot of, there's a lot of fun.

25:13SPEAKERLike there was one story that is widely quoted

25:15SPEAKERthat Ben Franklin satirically suggested

25:20SPEAKERpeople could save money on candles

25:23SPEAKERby setting their clocks forward one hour

25:27SPEAKERso that they get more light in the evening

25:28SPEAKERwhen they were burning the most candles.

25:31SPEAKERAnd he even did an analysis that showed

25:34SPEAKERthat France would save as much as,

25:36SPEAKERwell, current day $200 million every year on candle costs,

25:40SPEAKERcandle and whale oil costs, presumably.

25:43SPEAKERI don't know how they knew it was satirical.

25:44SPEAKER- Old, I was gonna say, old Ben Franklin,

25:46SPEAKERtruly the Jonathan Swift of his age.

25:49SPEAKERAlthough, wait, when?

25:51SPEAKER- I mean, look.

25:52SPEAKER- When was Jonathan Swift?

25:53SPEAKER- If you wanna talk about who the horniest

25:55SPEAKERof our founding fathers was, it's definitely Ben Franklin.

25:57SPEAKER- Also, actually, they were almost contemporary, to be fair.

26:00SPEAKER- They would have been, yeah.

26:02SPEAKERWell, Ben Franklin probably died

26:04SPEAKERwhen Jonathan Swift was a kid, would be my guess,

26:05SPEAKER'cause Jonathan Swift was like late 1800s, right?

26:08SPEAKER- No, no.

26:09SPEAKER- Oh, really?

26:09SPEAKER- 1600s.

26:11SPEAKERHe died 1745, so they may have been alive.

26:14SPEAKERThey were alive at the same time for a bit, let's say.

26:16SPEAKER- I didn't know that satirical cannibalism

26:19SPEAKERwas so popular in the 1600s.

26:22SPEAKER- Oh, man, we went into this with an episode title in mind,

26:26SPEAKERbut we just keep busting them out.

26:28SPEAKER- Look, if I only sleep three or four hours a night,

26:30SPEAKERI'm working on titles and not much good on anything else.

26:32SPEAKER- Dude, that is a whole other episode I would like to do

26:34SPEAKERif we somehow could find the expertise to do it.

26:36SPEAKERI also find that I am weirdly punchier

26:39SPEAKERand almost like sharper when I'm sleep deprived.

26:42SPEAKER- It's because your filters are bad.

26:45SPEAKER- Is that what it is?

26:47SPEAKERMaybe my own self judgment also suffers.

26:49SPEAKER- Yeah, like my shame goes way down

26:51SPEAKERand my ability to just say things

26:53SPEAKERwithout thinking about them at all goes way up.

26:55SPEAKER- Okay.

26:56SPEAKER- It's the secret of extra life.

26:57SPEAKER- But my ability to judge the quality

26:58SPEAKERof what I'm saying also declines.

27:00SPEAKER- Yeah, well, here we are.

27:02SPEAKERWelcome to the show, everybody.

27:04SPEAKER- Anyway, at the time of this recording,

27:06SPEAKERwe are to do 14, 16-ish hours away

27:10SPEAKERfrom the clocks changing.

27:11SPEAKER- Whoa.

27:12SPEAKER- Time is ticking, man.

27:13SPEAKER- What's your strategy?

27:14SPEAKERYou go around the house to like turn in needles?

27:16SPEAKERYou let everything just stay its course?

27:20SPEAKERDo you change, do you have a clock

27:22SPEAKERthat you always find like three weeks later

27:24SPEAKERthat hasn't been changed yet?

27:25SPEAKER- No, I pretty much, I find it weirdly satisfying

27:28SPEAKERchanging all the clocks and I pretty much get up,

27:30SPEAKERlike almost the second I get out of bed on the day,

27:33SPEAKERI get up and just go around the house and do all of them.

27:35SPEAKERBut how many clocks did you even have

27:37SPEAKERin the house that need changing?

27:38SPEAKERWe were getting, we have this run of show

27:40SPEAKERand we're leapfrogging to the end here.

27:42SPEAKER- Well, look, this is, I think this is,

27:45SPEAKERlook, let's freestyle this one.

27:48SPEAKER- It's a chatty episode.

27:49SPEAKERI mean, how many clocks do you even have

27:50SPEAKERaround the house that need changing?

27:51SPEAKERBecause like so many of the things we use for timekeeping

27:54SPEAKERautomate daylight savings now, like all the mobile devices,

27:56SPEAKERall the computers, all the consoles,

27:58SPEAKERlike with the possible exception of Windows 10,

28:01SPEAKERwhich I find very bad about handling daylight savings.

28:04SPEAKER- Well, I'll tell you how Windows 11 does next week.

28:07SPEAKERWe have one wall clock that's a wind-up clock

28:09SPEAKERthat we don't ever use 'cause the house is so small

28:11SPEAKERthat you can hear the ticking in every corner of the house

28:13SPEAKERand it makes us a little crazy.

28:15SPEAKER- You mean a literal wind-up clock,

28:16SPEAKERnot a battery operated that ticks,

28:17SPEAKERlike a literal like gears and springs?

28:20SPEAKER- Wound up with weights and the whole thing.

28:22SPEAKER- Oh, wow.

28:22SPEAKER- It was one of my grandfather's clocks.

28:23SPEAKER- Oh, so it's a--

28:24SPEAKER- It's the one on the wall in the dining room.

28:26SPEAKER- You've seen it? - Yeah.

28:27SPEAKER- It's a, I think it's a repro.

28:28SPEAKERIt's not a real one, but it's like a,

28:30SPEAKERit's like an old repro at this point, so.

28:33SPEAKER- That makes it antique by default.

28:36SPEAKER- Probably not, but the mechanism was definitely made

28:39SPEAKERin a factory in the '50s, probably would be my guess.

28:41SPEAKERAnyway, the only clock that we have

28:44SPEAKERthat I think that needs to be manually updated

28:45SPEAKERat this point is the one that's on the microwave oven.

28:52SPEAKER'Cause when we got the stove,

28:53SPEAKERit's connected to the internet now

28:54SPEAKERand it changes automatically.

28:55SPEAKER- What?

28:56SPEAKERAre you kidding?

28:58SPEAKER- Look, man.

28:59SPEAKER- The stove updates its own clock?

29:01SPEAKER- I'm gonna go and tell you,

29:01SPEAKERit's hard to buy a nice stove

29:03SPEAKERthat isn't internet connected.

29:04SPEAKER- Wait, so I mean, we live in an apartment

29:06SPEAKERwith a landlord who is loathe to ever replace anything,

29:09SPEAKERso I have no sense of what appliances are like these days.

29:11SPEAKERBut like, is it really at that point where like,

29:15SPEAKERlike the last time I paid attention

29:16SPEAKERto internet connected appliances,

29:18SPEAKERthey seemed like a completely ridiculous extravagance,

29:21SPEAKERbut did it just happen?

29:22SPEAKERLike, are they all that way now?

29:23SPEAKER- Well, so, okay, there's two,

29:25SPEAKERusually there's a really cheap tier

29:27SPEAKERof stuff that's not connected.

29:28SPEAKER- Okay.

29:29SPEAKER- But like on a stove, we wanted to get

29:30SPEAKERa high BTU burner and we wanted to get a griddle burner.

29:33SPEAKERAnd we didn't, we like, it didn't make sense.

29:37SPEAKERSo stoves are weird 'cause there's two different ranges.

29:39SPEAKERThere's like normal consumer stuff

29:41SPEAKERand then there's like the chef style for fancy houses.

29:45SPEAKERYou don't usually want to put the chef style

29:46SPEAKERfor fancy houses in a bad house

29:48SPEAKER'cause it's like, it's not, you know,

29:50SPEAKERit's like too expensive for the house

29:52SPEAKERand you won't see your money back.

29:53SPEAKERSo we didn't want to buy like a Viking,

29:55SPEAKERA, we didn't have 10 grand to spend on a Viking,

29:57SPEAKERbut we didn't want to buy like a Viking or a Wolf

29:59SPEAKERor a Sub-Zero or something like that.

30:01SPEAKERAnd those are all staunchly mechanical.

30:03SPEAKERThe expensive ones have no electronic shit in them at all.

30:06SPEAKERSo they last forever.

30:07SPEAKER- That rules.

30:08SPEAKER- Yeah, it's fucking awesome.

30:09SPEAKERLike at some point I will buy one of those,

30:10SPEAKERbut it wasn't for this house.

30:13SPEAKERWe ended up buying a Samsung, a big Samsung gas range,

30:18SPEAKERand it actually has a high BTU wok burner,

30:22SPEAKERwhich is something you can get in California a lot

30:24SPEAKER'cause there's a lot of Asian families

30:26SPEAKERthat do cooking at home.

30:27SPEAKER- I have experienced some backyard wok cooking before

30:30SPEAKERand that flame is intense.

30:31SPEAKER- Yeah, this one was like a 25,000 BTU wok burner

30:34SPEAKERand it's awesome.

30:36SPEAKERLike it is so, like you can heat stuff up

30:38SPEAKERin so little time, it's fabulous.

30:40SPEAKERBut in order to get that, we had to,

30:43SPEAKERwe had to like, it was like a mid range,

30:45SPEAKERmid low, mid high, I guess, price range.

30:49SPEAKERAnd all of those are internet connected at this point,

30:52SPEAKERwhich is stupid because you still have to like

30:54SPEAKERpress the button to queue it up

30:55SPEAKERand tell it to wait for the internet connection

30:57SPEAKERso that somebody just can't hack your stuff

30:58SPEAKERand turn it on remotely.

31:00SPEAKERAnd also, I think when the power went out

31:03SPEAKERand it reset a few years ago,

31:04SPEAKERI maybe never connected it back to the wifi, so.

31:06SPEAKER- Nice, well now you have to change that clock manually.

31:08SPEAKER- Yeah, probably.

31:09SPEAKER- What else do you get out of the stove

31:11SPEAKERbeing internet connected besides the clock?

31:13SPEAKER- You can turn the oven on like with your phone.

31:16SPEAKERSo like if you put say a roast in the oven

31:19SPEAKERwhen you leave for work, the theory is

31:21SPEAKERwhen you put a roast in the oven

31:22SPEAKERwhen you leave for work in the morning,

31:24SPEAKERyou can turn it on at like two o'clock

31:25SPEAKERand it'll be exactly right when you get home at five.

31:27SPEAKER- Interesting.

31:28SPEAKER- In reality, I'm never ever going to do that.

31:31SPEAKER- I don't know that I'd want to leave the roast just out.

31:34SPEAKER- Well, I think you freeze it a little bit first

31:35SPEAKERor something, it's fine enough for a few hours,

31:38SPEAKERit'll be okay.

31:39SPEAKER- Sure.

31:41SPEAKER- I wanted to like get data.

31:43SPEAKERI wanted to know like how much gas was going through

31:45SPEAKERat any given moment, but it doesn't do anything.

31:46SPEAKER- Oh, that would be great, that'd be cool.

31:48SPEAKERDo you, boy, this is getting way off topic.

31:51SPEAKERHave you paid much attention to the recent concern

31:56SPEAKERof safety concern around the gas ranges?

31:58SPEAKER- The carbon monoxide stuff?

31:59SPEAKER- Yeah.

32:01SPEAKER- Yeah, we have carbon monoxide sensors

32:02SPEAKERall through the house, so I'm okay with it.

32:03SPEAKER- Okay.

32:05SPEAKER- Also our house is real leaky, so you know,

32:07SPEAKERwe're probably fine.

32:08SPEAKER- Helps you to cycle the air.

32:09SPEAKER- I just have a low grade headache

32:10SPEAKERand I'm kind of tired all the time, but it seems okay.

32:14SPEAKERIt was a little, I mean, I'll tell you,

32:16SPEAKERwe have carbon monoxide sensors

32:18SPEAKERand carbon dioxide sensors in the house.

32:21SPEAKERThe, when it was hot a couple of years ago

32:25SPEAKERduring fire season and we had to leave the windows closed

32:27SPEAKERall the time because of all the smoke,

32:30SPEAKERit was a little concerning how high the carbon,

32:32SPEAKERlike we would see like 1600 PPMs of carbon monoxide,

32:34SPEAKERcarbon dioxide in the house after a few days

32:37SPEAKERand we would have to like mask up and open the windows

32:39SPEAKERand air it out and then turn on the air filters really high

32:41SPEAKERand take the masks off after a while.

32:44SPEAKER- California.

32:45SPEAKER- California sucks.

32:47SPEAKER- All right, but daylight savings time, Brad.

32:49SPEAKER- Yeah.

32:50SPEAKER- So yeah, the car clock is the one that I always forget

32:52SPEAKER'cause that one doesn't update automatically.

32:54SPEAKER- Interesting, even your new one?

32:57SPEAKER- I don't know, I haven't had it

32:58SPEAKERfor daylight savings time yet, I guess.

33:00SPEAKERWe got it after.

33:01SPEAKER- Find out tomorrow.

33:01SPEAKER- Yeah, maybe it's on the wifi.

33:03SPEAKER- Yeah, we've got like three analog wall clocks,

33:07SPEAKERthe stove and microwave, I've got a clock radio alarm clock

33:13SPEAKERand I think that's about it around here,

33:14SPEAKERbut I don't know what it is.

33:16SPEAKERI just find it pretty satisfying to go around.

33:18SPEAKERIt's just like a fun little twice a year chore ritual.

33:21SPEAKER- You like the ritual?

33:22SPEAKER- Yeah.

33:23SPEAKER- I like that.

33:24SPEAKER- Yeah, it's delighting in the mundane details of life

33:26SPEAKERis a good way to get through, I find.

33:28SPEAKER- Should we start with some myths?

33:34SPEAKER- Yeah, so I had kind of jotted down some stuff

33:36SPEAKERI had heard over the years,

33:38SPEAKERwhich is here's the first thing I wrote here

33:40SPEAKERwas I've always heard daylight savings time

33:42SPEAKERbegan as a world war thing, I think world war one

33:44SPEAKERand then we went and researched some of the history

33:46SPEAKERand indeed it did officially begin for the first time

33:49SPEAKERduring world war one.

33:50SPEAKER- Well, that's when it got popular.

33:52SPEAKERIt actually began in Canada in like 1908.

33:54SPEAKER- That's fair.

33:55SPEAKER- It was the first place that tried it in, I think Newfoundland.

33:57SPEAKER- You know what, I am guilty here.

33:58SPEAKERI did not note the couple of like Canadian cities

34:02SPEAKERthat adopted it first.

34:03SPEAKERThey shouldn't get the credit, I suppose.

34:05SPEAKER- Canada was a thought leader on daylight savings time.

34:07SPEAKERThanks Canada.

34:08SPEAKER- Yes.

34:09SPEAKER- Yeah, they did it as like an energy production thing

34:12SPEAKERin world war two, so you'd have to use less coal and stuff

34:15SPEAKERto heat your houses 'cause theoretically you'd stay up.

34:18SPEAKERThe sun would be up later and then you'd go to bed.

34:20SPEAKER- Yeah, this literally says here conserving coal

34:24SPEAKERduring war time was the first time.

34:25SPEAKERSo Germany and Austria, Hungary during world war one

34:28SPEAKERwere the first countries to officially make it nationwide.

34:31SPEAKER- So efficient.

34:33SPEAKERThe world war two reasoning in the UK at least

34:36SPEAKERwas different.

34:37SPEAKERSo they were getting bombed by the Germans fairly regularly

34:40SPEAKERand as a result, they had,

34:43SPEAKERthis is my grandmother told me stories about this

34:44SPEAKERwhen I was a kid 'cause she grew up in England in the war.

34:48SPEAKERAnd they would, like if you had cars,

34:51SPEAKERyou had to shutter the lights so the light only pointed

34:53SPEAKERin a tiny pool down just in front of the car.

34:55SPEAKERStreet lights, all your windows had to be blacked out.

34:58SPEAKEREverything was blacked out and like there were wardens

35:00SPEAKERwho would walk around from house to house

35:02SPEAKERif you had light showing because the German bombers

35:05SPEAKERwould fly over at night and they'd look for light sources

35:07SPEAKERand just huck a bomb or two at the light sources.

35:09SPEAKER- Wow.

35:10SPEAKER- So like if your neighbor left their,

35:12SPEAKERlike look, imagine if not wearing a mask in America today

35:16SPEAKERresulted in Germans bombing you.

35:18SPEAKER- I was gonna say this is such a sign of the times

35:20SPEAKERthat before you even said that,

35:21SPEAKERall I was sitting here thinking was about the current

35:23SPEAKERlike lack of cohesion, social cohesion about mask mandates.

35:26SPEAKERLike it immediately made me think,

35:29SPEAKERwonder what life would be like in this country right now

35:31SPEAKERif we were trying not to get bombed.

35:32SPEAKER- Yeah, so like a person or two in every neighborhood

35:36SPEAKERwould do the walk every night and they'd call out,

35:38SPEAKERlet people know if there were shutters were showing.

35:41SPEAKERYou'd get like yelled at by the government

35:44SPEAKERif you had too much light coming through.

35:47SPEAKERAnd they did double daylight savings time

35:50SPEAKERin World War II in the UK, British double summertime

35:53SPEAKERor BDST.

35:55SPEAKER- British double summertime, that's a cool phrase.

35:57SPEAKER- Basically one year they didn't fall back

35:59SPEAKERand then the next year they sprung forward again.

36:02SPEAKERSo effectively at like 10 o'clock at night

36:04SPEAKERand the summer 11 o'clock at night and summer sometimes

36:06SPEAKERit would be still sunny out.

36:08SPEAKER- Wow.

36:09SPEAKER- So you have plenty of time to like get home,

36:11SPEAKERdo all the stuff you needed to do

36:12SPEAKERbefore the lights turned out

36:13SPEAKERand you had to turn off all the lights

36:14SPEAKERand shutter all your windows and all that stuff, so.

36:17SPEAKER- That's wild to think about from a historical perspective.

36:19SPEAKERLike I am a gigantic nerd for World War II era history

36:23SPEAKERof all stripes, but like when you put it that way

36:26SPEAKERthat they had multiple summers in which to like

36:28SPEAKERkeep leapfrogging their daylight savings time,

36:30SPEAKERlike it really makes you realize what an absolute grind

36:33SPEAKERthat must have been to live through even as a civilian.

36:35SPEAKER- Well, the other thing that she told me is that in London

36:37SPEAKERthey took all of, in most of the UK,

36:39SPEAKERthey took all of the street signs down

36:42SPEAKERso that when the Germans invaded

36:43SPEAKERthey'd have a hard time knowing where they were.

36:46SPEAKER- Wow.

36:47SPEAKER- So like basically they inconvenienced the shit

36:49SPEAKERout of the entire population on the off chance

36:51SPEAKERthe Germans were gonna invade.

36:52SPEAKER- Oh, Operation Sea Lion was just a pipe dream,

36:55SPEAKEReverybody knows that.

36:56SPEAKER- Anyway, well, they didn't know it at the time.

36:57SPEAKER- No, I suppose not.

36:59SPEAKER- But they often would find like a GIs walking around

37:02SPEAKERcompletely lost and you'd have to like, yeah.

37:06SPEAKER- You know what, I'm not gonna begrudge anything

37:08SPEAKERthat anybody did to try to get by in the course of that war.

37:10SPEAKER- Yeah, no, good going, nice job everybody.

37:14SPEAKER- Real quick, just to kind of fill out the history

37:16SPEAKERa little bit here, it looks like it was retired

37:17SPEAKERafter World War I, there was kind of a big intermission

37:20SPEAKERand it didn't come back until World War II

37:21SPEAKERand then maybe you're almost old enough to remember this,

37:25SPEAKERit looks like it maybe fell off again after World War II

37:30SPEAKERand it was only in the '70s when it really became

37:32SPEAKERlike a true institution here, is that correct?

37:35SPEAKER- Federally legislated until the--

37:39SPEAKER- The energy crisis in '70s. - The energy crisis, yeah.

37:41SPEAKER- So I've never known a time without it,

37:42SPEAKERso I just assumed it had been around for like a century

37:44SPEAKERor something, but it seems a little spottier than that.

37:47SPEAKER- Well, the weird thing is before, let's see,

37:49SPEAKERI wrote it down here, before the Universal Time Act,

37:54SPEAKERwhich was the thing that changed this in the '70s,

37:57SPEAKERwell, there was one in the '60s and one in the '70s, I think.

38:03SPEAKERThe way we did time the United States at least

38:05SPEAKERwas pretty chaotic, like towns and cities

38:08SPEAKERwould maintain their own time standards.

38:11SPEAKER- I have no idea about this.

38:12SPEAKERThis sounds completely ludicrous.

38:14SPEAKER- Yeah, so like if you were driving from Asheville

38:16SPEAKERto Johnson City, you know, over the mountain 45 minutes,

38:19SPEAKERif one, you might have to change your watch

38:22SPEAKERby like 20 minutes in the course of that journey

38:25SPEAKERbecause Johnson City's clock was bad.

38:27SPEAKER- You might get there before you left?

38:29SPEAKER- Yeah, like look, you could have all sorts of,

38:31SPEAKERif you weren't careful, you could end up

38:33SPEAKERbeing your own grandfather, Brad.

38:35SPEAKER- Jeez, yeah.

38:37SPEAKER- Well, and some cities would do daylight savings time,

38:39SPEAKERsome counties would, some states would,

38:42SPEAKERsome places just didn't.

38:44SPEAKERAnd so the Universal Time Act said,

38:45SPEAKERhey, here's the standard, here's the time zones.

38:48SPEAKERWe mostly agree to these now, but for the most part,

38:51SPEAKERwe're gonna stick to this.

38:53SPEAKERAnd also states can opt out of daylight savings time,

38:56SPEAKERbut they can't opt in year round.

38:59SPEAKERSo like Arizona and bits and pieces of Indianapolis,

39:03SPEAKERIndiana, and I think for a while, Montana, or Michigan,

39:07SPEAKERdidn't buy into daylight savings time.

39:09SPEAKERNow, Michigan eventually got on board.

39:13SPEAKERIndianapolis is still Eastern time,

39:16SPEAKERwhile the rest of the state's Central time.

39:18SPEAKERThe, or still doesn't do daylight savings time.

39:21SPEAKERI can't, Indianapolis is weird,

39:23SPEAKERjust don't go to Indianapolis, sorry, Indianapolis.

39:25SPEAKER- Boy.

39:27SPEAKER- Arizona doesn't do it because keeping the lights on later

39:31SPEAKERraises energy costs, is their argument.

39:33SPEAKERSo, and we can talk about this in the myths

39:36SPEAKERand Apocrypha category, but like the idea,

39:39SPEAKERone of the ideas of daylight savings time is that,

39:41SPEAKERhey, the lights are out later,

39:43SPEAKERyou don't have to use as much energy.

39:44SPEAKERBut that made a lot of sense when like most of our energy

39:47SPEAKERuse was for lighting, but once our energy use shifted

39:50SPEAKERfrom lighting to cooling and heat,

39:52SPEAKERit stopped making as much sense,

39:54SPEAKER'cause it's way more expensive to cool a place

39:56SPEAKERthan it is to turn on a light bulb.

39:58SPEAKERAnd yeah, so Arizona doesn't do daylight savings time.

40:01SPEAKERAlso, Arizona's got to always has to be weird

40:04SPEAKER'cause it's fucking Arizona.

40:05SPEAKERSo sure, but they're special.

40:07SPEAKER- No offense to them.

40:08SPEAKER- They're like the West Texas.

40:10SPEAKER- Yeah, that helps clarify things

40:12SPEAKERbecause there's a bunch of states have either passed

40:14SPEAKERor at least entertained bills

40:16SPEAKERthat would make daylight savings time permanent,

40:18SPEAKERbut that can't go into effect

40:20SPEAKERunless Congress federally passes a law.

40:22SPEAKERAnd so that got me wondering like,

40:23SPEAKERwell, wait, how does Arizona opt out?

40:25SPEAKERBut apparently you can opt out,

40:27SPEAKERbut you cannot opt into permanent without federal say so.

40:31SPEAKER- Yeah, so the first time they passed the law,

40:33SPEAKERthey said you couldn't opt out

40:34SPEAKERunless you did it as a whole state, which Arizona did.

40:36SPEAKERThe second time they said you could opt out

40:39SPEAKERas a portion of a state,

40:40SPEAKERbut only based on the existing time zone lines.

40:42SPEAKERSo like Tennessee, which is like the part from Knoxville,

40:46SPEAKEREast is basically Eastern time.

40:48SPEAKERThe part from the West side of Knoxville West

40:51SPEAKERis Central time.

40:52SPEAKERIf Tennessee wanted to say, okay, Western Tennessee

40:55SPEAKERis not gonna opt into daylight savings time,

40:57SPEAKERbut Eastern Tennessee is, they totally could.

41:00SPEAKERYeah, it's weird.

41:02SPEAKERAnd something like what, 20 states,

41:04SPEAKER19 or 20 states have said,

41:05SPEAKERhey, we would do permanent daylight savings time

41:08SPEAKERif the feds let us?

41:09SPEAKER- No, thank you.

41:11SPEAKERNo, I'm good.

41:12SPEAKER- I like daylight savings time.

41:13SPEAKER- No, I don't think. - Really?

41:16SPEAKER- I mean, I appreciate it for when it's in effect.

41:18SPEAKERI don't think I would want it all.

41:19SPEAKERI don't know, man, I'm torn.

41:21SPEAKERI'm very torn.

41:22SPEAKER- I like the late sun.

41:24SPEAKERI don't like being up in the morning.

41:26SPEAKER- Well, anyway, we're all over the place today.

41:30SPEAKER- Dude, we have all these bullet points here

41:32SPEAKERand we're not following them.

41:33SPEAKERI'm wrapping my rule book here.

41:35SPEAKER- No, no, no, okay, you bust out your gavel, Brad.

41:39SPEAKER- Let's see.

41:40SPEAKER- You wanna bounce back to the myths and apocrypha?

41:43SPEAKER- Well, so there is kind of an argument

41:47SPEAKERfor doing away with it.

41:48SPEAKERI don't know if we wanna get into that now

41:49SPEAKERor if that's an end of episode thing.

41:51SPEAKER- Let's do pros and cons at the end.

41:53SPEAKER- Okay, I mean, there's something I wrote down here.

41:55SPEAKERThis was kind of an aside that occurred to me

41:57SPEAKERas we were planning this episode,

41:58SPEAKERbut I don't know about you,

42:01SPEAKERbut I have had a really interesting experience of time

42:04SPEAKERover the last 18 months.

42:05SPEAKER- Because everything's the same every day?

42:08SPEAKER- Literally because of being in this westward-facing

42:11SPEAKERapartment almost 24/7 for 18 months, right?

42:13SPEAKER- Yeah.

42:14SPEAKER- I've never, in my working life,

42:16SPEAKERI've never had an experience of that

42:17SPEAKER'cause you're basically the same, right?

42:19SPEAKERUnless you've worked from home permanently,

42:20SPEAKERwhich most people don't.

42:22SPEAKER- I have for the last five years.

42:23SPEAKER- Well, that's fair.

42:24SPEAKER- Six years.

42:25SPEAKER- But you know, you're commuting to and from places.

42:27SPEAKERYou're seeing different things at different times of day.

42:28SPEAKERIt's hard to like, you don't have like a standard candle,

42:32SPEAKERlet's say.

42:33SPEAKER- Have you ever had much of a schedule?

42:34SPEAKER- You don't have a standard frame,

42:35SPEAKERlike physical, like the locational frame of reference

42:39SPEAKERfor how time changes over the course of the year, right?

42:41SPEAKERBut like our living room faces directly west

42:44SPEAKERout toward the ocean.

42:45SPEAKERAnd you know, so we've got a consistent skyline.

42:48SPEAKERLike I've become really acutely aware over the last,

42:51SPEAKERover the work from home of like how daylight lengthens

42:53SPEAKERand shortens as the year progresses.

42:57SPEAKERThe angle of the sun, because I've got this,

42:59SPEAKERyou know, I've got all these other apartment buildings

43:01SPEAKERout the window.

43:02SPEAKERI can like vary, it's almost like a sundial, you know,

43:04SPEAKERfor the year where it's like, wow,

43:06SPEAKERthe sun was way over there to the right in June.

43:09SPEAKERAnd now it's way over here to the left.

43:11SPEAKER- Well, being able to see where,

43:14SPEAKERlike A, because we're further north,

43:16SPEAKERthe sun goes further up and down the coast in its setting.

43:19SPEAKERBut yeah, being able to see that west facing sunset

43:22SPEAKERand know that like in the summer it's gonna set 30 degrees

43:25SPEAKERto the right of where it sets in the wintertime.

43:28SPEAKER- Right.

43:29SPEAKER- Is crazy.

43:30SPEAKER- It's, you know, like obviously we all learn

43:33SPEAKERabout the axial tilt of the planet growing up

43:35SPEAKERand stuff like that.

43:36SPEAKERLike, you know these things scientifically,

43:39SPEAKERbut you don't really, like my commute schedule,

43:42SPEAKERmy work schedule was such that most,

43:43SPEAKERlike a good chunk of the year I got home

43:45SPEAKERafter it was dark, right?

43:46SPEAKERSo I just didn't see that.

43:47SPEAKERBut like tracking that every day for a year and a half

43:50SPEAKERhas been kind of really cool and eye-opening.

43:52SPEAKER- So we've lived in this house for 14 years now.

43:56SPEAKERAnd as a result,

43:58SPEAKERlike when I started doing the home automation stuff,

43:59SPEAKERI got the first taste of this.

44:01SPEAKER'Cause I was like, why is it always dark in the living room

44:03SPEAKERin the wintertime or in the summertime earlier

44:05SPEAKERthan it is in the wintertime?

44:06SPEAKERThat doesn't make any sense.

44:07SPEAKERBut it's because our windows face south

44:10SPEAKERand in the wintertime,

44:12SPEAKERand also there's a mountain that covers like two thirds

44:15SPEAKERof the south and a little tiny bit of the west, right?

44:18SPEAKERSo the sun goes down way, way, way, way, way earlier

44:21SPEAKERin the wintertime and way, way, way, way, way.

44:24SPEAKERAnd even though it goes up down later,

44:25SPEAKERwe don't get as much direct light in

44:26SPEAKER'cause the sun's further around to the north

44:29SPEAKERin the winter, in the summertime.

44:31SPEAKER- That's really rough.

44:31SPEAKERActually being in this apartment, I mean,

44:33SPEAKERSan Francisco, at least this part of the city is on a grid

44:36SPEAKERthat directly is kind of perpendicular to the coastline.

44:39SPEAKERSo you get that nice east-west, but like living in here,

44:43SPEAKERI'm sure, you know, if you're buying a house,

44:45SPEAKERyou don't have a lot of choice in this regard,

44:46SPEAKERbut like I would love to keep living in this like rigidly

44:50SPEAKEReast-west facing situation for the rest of my life.

44:54SPEAKER'Cause getting these sunsets and sunrises

44:56SPEAKERon either end of the domicile is pretty nice.

44:59SPEAKER- It's funny 'cause like the realtors will tell you

45:01SPEAKERthat having a south facing exposure is more desirable

45:04SPEAKER'cause you get more even sun throughout the day.

45:07SPEAKERBut I tend to agree with you when you're someplace

45:09SPEAKERthat you actually have good sunsets and like ocean and stuff.

45:11SPEAKER- Just from a kind of relaxation standpoint,

45:14SPEAKERlike sitting in the living room and seeing a nice sunset

45:17SPEAKERis nice, but also it avoids the problem

45:19SPEAKERyou were talking about of like even as the angle changes

45:22SPEAKERthroughout the year, like we're still west facing enough

45:24SPEAKERthat we still get enough direct light through

45:26SPEAKERin the afternoons, regardless of which side it's on,

45:29SPEAKERbut it sounds like you guys are just missing out.

45:31SPEAKER- Well, the weird thing is like there's really good,

45:35SPEAKERlike the axial tilt is easy to programmatically account for

45:38SPEAKERin like the home automation stuff.

45:40SPEAKERBut the fact that there's a mountain over like half

45:42SPEAKERof the southern exposure is impossible.

45:45SPEAKERI just have to change the time offset every few months,

45:47SPEAKERevery few weeks during the winter time

45:49SPEAKERuntil the lights turn on at the right time, basically.

45:51SPEAKER- Right, 'cause they're not giving you sunset data

45:53SPEAKERwith that level of precision.

45:55SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, exactly.

45:56SPEAKERSo anyway.

45:58SPEAKER- Is there anything in Home Assistant,

46:00SPEAKERI generally don't touch my,

46:02SPEAKERI set it up a couple of years ago, early last year

46:04SPEAKERand have not really touched anything,

46:06SPEAKERbut is there anything I should go look at in there

46:07SPEAKERthat I could mess with in terms of like,

46:10SPEAKERI should change the sunset offset

46:12SPEAKERon these lights coming on by 20 minutes or something?

46:14SPEAKER- Well, so I usually err on the earlier side

46:16SPEAKERthan the later side,

46:17SPEAKER'cause it's better to be light early than dark late.

46:21SPEAKERSo what I should do is write a script

46:23SPEAKERthat just changes it every 10 minutes,

46:24SPEAKERlike by a minute every day.

46:26SPEAKER- Ooh, I'm gonna write a script on how we're talking.

46:28SPEAKER- I don't know, that seems like a lot of work though.

46:31SPEAKERBut it's interesting,

46:33SPEAKERthe intersection of human construction and like the sun,

46:40SPEAKERbecause there's a couple of days a year,

46:42SPEAKERthis is a weird, incredibly specific to my living room.

46:46SPEAKERThere's a couple of days a year

46:47SPEAKERwhere my front door is perfectly aligned with the sun,

46:51SPEAKERsuch that the peephole on my front door focuses a circle

46:55SPEAKERthat's about three inches around

46:56SPEAKERon the wall opposite the peephole.

46:58SPEAKER- Wow.

46:59SPEAKER- And it happens usually for two or three days

47:02SPEAKERon either side of each equinox, I believe.

47:06SPEAKER- Okay. - Equinox, yeah.

47:08SPEAKERSo the equinox is when we're halfway, the days are most even.

47:12SPEAKERWe're halfway around.

47:13SPEAKER- We're halfway between the longest

47:14SPEAKERand the shortest day of the year.

47:15SPEAKER- Exactly.

47:16SPEAKER- And those are the solstice?

47:17SPEAKER- Spring, no, equinox is the summer

47:19SPEAKERand is the fall and spring.

47:21SPEAKER- No, no, I mean the longest and shortest days are the--

47:23SPEAKER- The longest and shortest are the solstices.

47:24SPEAKER- Are the solstices, right, yeah.

47:26SPEAKERWhich ones, there's a vernal equinox, right?

47:28SPEAKER- Vernal is autumn.

47:29SPEAKER- What's the other one, can you name them all?

47:31SPEAKERThat's the only one I can come up with.

47:33SPEAKER- Well, summer solstice and winter solstice

47:35SPEAKERand vernal equinox and I don't remember

47:38SPEAKERwhat the spring one's called.

47:38SPEAKER- I can tell you. - I think vernal summer,

47:39SPEAKERspring, fall, maybe vernal spring, I can't remember.

47:42SPEAKER- Vernal, let's see, in the, oh, it varies by hemisphere.

47:45SPEAKER- Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah.

47:46SPEAKER- In the northern hemisphere, the March equinox

47:48SPEAKERis the vernal or spring equinox.

47:51SPEAKERWell, the September equinox is called

47:54SPEAKERthe autumnal or fall equinox.

47:56SPEAKER- Oh, well, that's impressive.

47:58SPEAKER- Yes, and it's the reverse in the southern.

48:00SPEAKER- So there's other famous examples of this intersection

48:04SPEAKERof human construction and--

48:06SPEAKER- Can I stop you real quick before you get into that,

48:07SPEAKER'cause A, I want to hear this word

48:09SPEAKERbecause it's the actual title of the episode,

48:10SPEAKERbut B, with your peephole focusing the light,

48:14SPEAKERare we talking a focusing as of a magnifying glass,

48:17SPEAKERlike you could fry stuff?

48:19SPEAKER- That was my initial concern

48:20SPEAKERwhen I saw this happen the first time,

48:21SPEAKERbut no, it is like a three or four inch circle,

48:24SPEAKERso it's fine. - Okay, okay.

48:25SPEAKER- I tried putting a piece of paper

48:27SPEAKERand running it along the entire length of the hole

48:29SPEAKERand the peephole does not focus it

48:30SPEAKERin such a way that it will light things on fire

48:33SPEAKERat the focal range that is extant inside my house, sadly.

48:36SPEAKER- Okay, okay.

48:37SPEAKER- I think next time I might put a magnifying glass

48:40SPEAKERin front of it, though.

48:40SPEAKER- You should do that, you should definitely do that.

48:42SPEAKER- What could go wrong?

48:45SPEAKERSorry, go ahead. - So say the word.

48:48SPEAKER- Okay, so have you heard of Manhattanhenge?

48:50SPEAKER- I have not until five minutes before this podcast

48:52SPEAKERand you said it and then I started to Google pictures of it

48:55SPEAKERand you were like, no, stop, because man, it looked cool.

48:58SPEAKER- So Manhattanhenge happens

48:59SPEAKERbecause Manhattan is aligned on a grid,

49:01SPEAKERthe streets all line up with each other perfectly,

49:04SPEAKERso two days a year, the sun lines up,

49:07SPEAKERthe setting or rising sun lines up with the grid of the city

49:12SPEAKERand as a result, the light shines directly down each column,

49:16SPEAKERthe cross streets are totally dark,

49:18SPEAKERI mean, not totally dark,

49:18SPEAKERbut like the incidental light passes around, but like--

49:20SPEAKER- As in shadow as they could get?

49:22SPEAKER- As in shadow as they can get

49:24SPEAKERand it's like the prehistoric observatory effect

49:29SPEAKERwith Stonehenge or the temples in Central America

49:32SPEAKERand stuff like that. - That's so cool.

49:33SPEAKER- But on the scale of Manhattan.

49:36SPEAKER- If you have not seen this,

49:38SPEAKERI'm sure photos don't do it justice,

49:39SPEAKERbut you can Google a bunch of photos

49:40SPEAKERand it looks cool as hell.

49:42SPEAKER- I missed it by like three days one year and was super,

49:46SPEAKERI like, had I known, I would have just stayed.

49:48SPEAKER- Oh man, I just found an article on farmersalmanac.com

49:54SPEAKERcalled "Here Comes Manhattanhenge 2021 Dates."

49:58SPEAKER- Yep, there's another place, the Infinite Quarter at MIT.

50:01SPEAKERThis is a incredibly long quarter

50:03SPEAKERthat runs east-west at MIT

50:05SPEAKERand there's a couple of days in the late winter

50:08SPEAKERand early spring or like November and January

50:11SPEAKERon either side of the winter solstice

50:14SPEAKERwhere it lines up with the sun

50:15SPEAKERand when they open doors on one end,

50:16SPEAKERthe sun just shines straight through

50:18SPEAKERall the way to the other end.

50:19SPEAKER- Was that engineered or, I mean, being that it's MIT

50:21SPEAKERor was that just an accident, do you know?

50:22SPEAKER- I mean, I think probably the fact that it lined up

50:25SPEAKERis probably an accident, but I don't know for sure.

50:30SPEAKERYeah, so it happens.

50:32SPEAKERI'd be curious what other,

50:33SPEAKERI'm sure there's others that people know about.

50:35SPEAKERAny city that's on a grid,

50:36SPEAKERtheoretically this would happen for

50:37SPEAKERif there's east-west facing streets.

50:40SPEAKERAnd yeah, if you have trouble understanding

50:44SPEAKERwhy the axial tilt changes this,

50:46SPEAKERthe thing I would recommend is to like get a foam ball

50:49SPEAKERand stick a couple of toothpicks in it

50:51SPEAKERso you can hold it on an axis and then get another ball.

50:55SPEAKERAnd literally move it around the sun and you'll see--

50:58SPEAKER- Or a light bulb.

50:59SPEAKER- Light bulb would work, yeah.

51:01SPEAKERYou can see how the, 'cause remember you rotate

51:06SPEAKERall the time, but the axial tilt is static

51:08SPEAKERall the way around.

51:10SPEAKERSo on the summer half of the year,

51:11SPEAKERyour hemisphere faces directly toward the sun

51:14SPEAKERand as a result, the sun is gonna be lower,

51:17SPEAKERlike more toward the south.

51:19SPEAKERIn the winter part of the year,

51:20SPEAKERit's gonna look like it's further north

51:22SPEAKER'cause it's further, I have that backwards.

51:24SPEAKER- It depends on which hemisphere you're at.

51:25SPEAKER- Yeah, but you're right, it's very easy to visualize

51:27SPEAKERwhen you do that little miniature experiment.

51:29SPEAKERBut that was one thing I had glossed over is that yeah,

51:33SPEAKERthe further, excuse me, the farther north,

51:36SPEAKERyeah, farther is for physical distances.

51:38SPEAKERAlways get it backwards.

51:39SPEAKER- Really? I didn't know that one.

51:40SPEAKER- Yes, farther is for physical distances,

51:42SPEAKERfurther is for abstract distances.

51:45SPEAKER- Fascinating.

51:45SPEAKER- Such as further forward in time, let's say.

51:49SPEAKERWe will discuss this further.

51:51SPEAKER- Did we talk about the entropy in clocks a few weeks ago?

51:55SPEAKER- Yes.

51:55SPEAKER- On the show or did we just talk about that out of the show?

51:57SPEAKER- I started to say yes, but maybe not.

51:59SPEAKERI think we did.

52:00SPEAKER- I feel like it was a cold open maybe.

52:02SPEAKER- It was the kind of landmark thermodynamic equations

52:05SPEAKERabout clocks.

52:06SPEAKER- Yeah, the fact that you can't perfectly measure time

52:08SPEAKERwithout infinite entropy.

52:10SPEAKER- Yes, I think we got into that.

52:12SPEAKER- Pros and cons of measuring time precisely, it turns out.

52:15SPEAKER- Anyway, I was gonna say, I was reminded

52:17SPEAKERas I was looking through some of these articles out there

52:19SPEAKERabout like, should we go permanent DST?

52:22SPEAKERShould we abolish it altogether?

52:23SPEAKERLike that's, if you hate these changes,

52:27SPEAKERthe best thing you can do is move as close

52:29SPEAKERto the equator as possible.

52:30SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.

52:31SPEAKER- Like Hawaii, Hawaii, for example, is a great place to be

52:34SPEAKERif you want like early light and late light.

52:38SPEAKER- Well, and yeah, you get also the variation

52:41SPEAKERthroughout the year changes less

52:43SPEAKERthe closer you are to the equator.

52:44SPEAKERAnd once you get inside the tropics,

52:45SPEAKERthe tropic Capricorn and the tropic Cancer,

52:48SPEAKERthen you get minimal variation at all

52:51SPEAKERbecause you're basically getting full sun all the time.

52:53SPEAKER- And also I'm kinda,

52:53SPEAKERI'm sitting here smacking my forehead right now

52:55SPEAKERfor even having forgotten about that stuff.

52:56SPEAKER'Cause you always hear about like Scandinavian countries

52:58SPEAKERand Alaska and places like that,

53:00SPEAKERlike having just god awful amounts of darkness

53:02SPEAKERin the winter.

53:03SPEAKER- Well, and so the Arctic Circle and the Antarctic Circle

53:06SPEAKERare the, hey, you're gonna have a bad time

53:09SPEAKERin the winter circles.

53:11SPEAKERThose are the ones that indicate that you won't see any sun

53:14SPEAKERfor some period of time.

53:15SPEAKERIf you're prone to seasonal disaffected, diseffective,

53:18SPEAKERwait, seasonal affective disorder, I'm sorry.

53:20SPEAKERSeasonal affective disorder.

53:22SPEAKERIf you're prone to that, maybe don't go there.

53:24SPEAKER- Yeah.

53:26SPEAKERSo, okay, there's myths.

53:28SPEAKERThere's more myths.

53:29SPEAKERThere's a lot of myths.

53:30SPEAKERMy favorite is that the day after springing forward,

53:34SPEAKERthe Monday after springing forward

53:36SPEAKERis the most dangerous day of the year to drive.

53:38SPEAKER- Hmm.

53:40SPEAKER- Do you think it's true or false?

53:41SPEAKER- I, my guess, my gut feeling

53:44SPEAKERis that there's maybe some kernel of truth there,

53:46SPEAKERbut that it's also a little overblown.

53:48SPEAKERLike I know, obviously sleep deprivation and all that stuff,

53:50SPEAKERbut an hour doesn't seem like it should make

53:54SPEAKERthat much difference.

53:55SPEAKER- So there've been a handful of studies

53:57SPEAKERabout jet lag and driving safety.

53:58SPEAKERAnd one of them, most of them agree

54:00SPEAKERthat if you drive with mild jet lag,

54:02SPEAKERwhich is basically what you're doing

54:04SPEAKERon spring forward Monday or sleepy Monday

54:07SPEAKERis what these people call it,

54:11SPEAKERthen you are more likely to have accidents.

54:15SPEAKERSo basically what you're doing is getting in a car

54:17SPEAKERon the day that everybody's a little bit jet lagged

54:20SPEAKERand you're trucking to work

54:21SPEAKERwhen everybody's still a little sleepy,

54:22SPEAKERmaybe hasn't had enough coffee yet.

54:24SPEAKERAnd there've been a bunch of studies about this

54:27SPEAKERand they've been kind of all over the place.

54:28SPEAKERSo a Minnesota roundup of the studies,

54:32SPEAKERlike basically said, hey, we found 10 studies

54:39SPEAKERthat are we validated that are for the theory

54:41SPEAKERthat this is a more dangerous day to drive

54:44SPEAKERand six that we're against.

54:46SPEAKERHowever, the thing that none of these studies

54:50SPEAKERtake into account is that when there's more light

54:53SPEAKERlate in the day when people are still driving,

54:56SPEAKERthe roads are definitely safer.

54:57SPEAKERLike pushing twilight back an extra hour

55:00SPEAKERso that it happens at 8.30 or nine instead of 7.30 or eight

55:04SPEAKERis probably, seems to have a much greater effect

55:10SPEAKERto the point that like doing year round daylight savings

55:12SPEAKERwould probably save at least a couple of hundred lives

55:14SPEAKERa year in the United States on traffic fatalities

55:17SPEAKERbecause of the reduced danger driving when it's light out.

55:21SPEAKERI was all ready to come in here and argue

55:22SPEAKERfor getting rid of it altogether

55:24SPEAKERand now you have to throw out the saving human life part

55:26SPEAKERand now I'm just gonna be the asshole.

55:28SPEAKERBrad, if you wanna kill 200 people every year,

55:31SPEAKERyou can get your morning light.

55:33SPEAKER- This is a low blow, this is a low blow.

55:35SPEAKER- Hold on, hold on, there's more.

55:38SPEAKERThe other side of it is that there's been

55:39SPEAKERsome Scottish studies that they did in the 80s

55:41SPEAKERwhen they were trying to do year round daylight,

55:43SPEAKERor 90s when they were trying to do year round daylight

55:44SPEAKERsavings in the UK that showed that when they did this,

55:47SPEAKERthey did a three year trial at some point

55:49SPEAKERin the 70s or early 80s and there were a lot more

55:52SPEAKERmorning traffic accidents involving school children

55:56SPEAKERgoing to school early in the dark.

56:00SPEAKERSo probably those 200 fatalities that you save at night

56:03SPEAKERare completely canceled out by the kids

56:05SPEAKERthat get hit by cars in the morning on the way to school.

56:07SPEAKER- Now who has the moral high ground?

56:09SPEAKER- It's complicated.

56:10SPEAKER- Now we're saving children's lives.

56:12SPEAKER- Now, now the counter to this is that

56:15SPEAKERlet the kids go to school later.

56:16SPEAKERThey don't have to go to school at seven o'clock

56:18SPEAKERin the morning, let them go at 930 when the sun's up.

56:20SPEAKER- Damn rule benders.

56:21SPEAKER- Yeah, anyway, there's another good one

56:24SPEAKERabout heart attacks.

56:25SPEAKERSo heart attack rate increases are tied

56:27SPEAKERto daylight savings time.

56:28SPEAKERThere've been some studies about this,

56:29SPEAKERthe kind of stuff you see on like the Today Show

56:31SPEAKERin the morning.

56:32SPEAKERAnd as many as like a 24% increase in emergency room visits

56:37SPEAKERfor heart attacks on the days after daylight savings time.

56:42SPEAKER- So that one does surprise me because like driving,

56:45SPEAKERthere's an element of like control, you know?

56:47SPEAKERThere's some awareness and you can like mitigate

56:50SPEAKERby being extra alert or whatever, whatever,

56:52SPEAKERdrink more coffee.

56:52SPEAKERBut like heart attacks, obviously you can't control

56:54SPEAKERwhether you have a heart attack or not,

56:55SPEAKERbut I wouldn't think an hour would make that big

56:57SPEAKERa difference for like cardiac issues.

57:00SPEAKER- Well, so one of the things that there isn't a lot

57:03SPEAKERof study on this, I looked for some stuff

57:04SPEAKERand I didn't find anything that jumped out

57:06SPEAKERas super reputable.

57:07SPEAKERThe one thing that I did see said that basically

57:10SPEAKERthe theory here is that there is a strong correlation

57:16SPEAKERbetween disrupting your sleep patterns

57:17SPEAKERand chances of cardiac events.

57:20SPEAKERSo because you're having a nationwide sleep pattern change

57:26SPEAKERhappening there, probably that's what is the trigger.

57:30SPEAKERLike the, it's not the spring forward or falling back

57:34SPEAKER'cause everybody's losing an hour of sleep,

57:36SPEAKERwhich I mean, I guess those two things

57:37SPEAKERare directly connected because of daylight savings time.

57:39SPEAKERHowever, it's nothing, like if we went,

57:42SPEAKERit's not because the sun is staying up later,

57:44SPEAKERit's because we're changing the time.

57:46SPEAKERIf we stop changing the time,

57:47SPEAKERthat would presumably stop happening.

57:48SPEAKER- Sure, I suspect what I'm actually doing here

57:50SPEAKERis minimizing the amount of sleep disruption.

57:52SPEAKERLike it's probably not just the hour

57:55SPEAKERthat you technically lose

57:56SPEAKERbecause people probably have a harder time

57:58SPEAKERgetting to sleep on subsequent nights

58:00SPEAKERbecause of the just jet lagging effects and stuff.

58:03SPEAKER- Well, and you're getting up earlier.

58:04SPEAKERIt's like that feeling you get when you wake up

58:07SPEAKERand you have to get up, you gotta put like four o'clock

58:08SPEAKERin the morning to go get on an airplane or something.

58:10SPEAKERYou know, it's not. - Right, yeah.

58:11SPEAKERYeah, like what I'm saying is I bet the cumulative sleep loss

58:13SPEAKERis actually a good bit more than that one hour.

58:16SPEAKER- Yeah, oh, definitely, definitely.

58:21SPEAKERSo yeah, those were the big ones.

58:22SPEAKERFarmers hate daylight savings time, it turns out.

58:24SPEAKER- So, really?

58:27SPEAKERSo the thing I was gonna say,

58:28SPEAKERthat was one of the myths I didn't write down here,

58:29SPEAKERbut I had, like through childhood,

58:32SPEAKERI had always heard it was an agricultural thing

58:34SPEAKERthat started it.

58:35SPEAKERIt was like, oh, they wanted more daylight

58:36SPEAKERin the evenings to harvest or blah, blah, blah.

58:39SPEAKERBut like, no, it was fully a wartime thing

58:42SPEAKERand a corporate thing, looking at these bullet points.

58:45SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, and look,

58:47SPEAKERthere is a convenience, there is a measured benefit

58:51SPEAKERto like outdoor recreation being able to happen

58:55SPEAKERoutside of work in the evening for longer in the year.

58:59SPEAKERAnd like, I don't think anybody's gonna argue

59:01SPEAKERthat going outside more is bad for you.

59:04SPEAKER- No, absolutely not.

59:05SPEAKER- So like if you can go out and go for a walk in the dark,

59:08SPEAKERI mean, you can go out and go for a walk in the dark.

59:10SPEAKERWhere I live, I might get eaten by a mountain lion

59:12SPEAKERif I do that, but like if you go out,

59:16SPEAKERif you have more sun, then you might be more likely

59:18SPEAKERto go out and go for a walk.

59:18SPEAKERThat's probably a net win.

59:20SPEAKER- You're not wrong, but hey, what if instead of moving

59:23SPEAKERto time and clock some stuff all over the place,

59:25SPEAKERwhat if we just didn't require people to be so goddamn busy

59:29SPEAKERfor the entirety of the daylight cycle?

59:31SPEAKER- Man, like what if people just had time

59:34SPEAKERto go exercise in the middle of the day?

59:36SPEAKER- Gina and I were talking about this.

59:37SPEAKERLike this is a total aside, but like we,

59:42SPEAKERshe had to take our daughter to get vaccinated.

59:43SPEAKERLike we're starting to have busy days again

59:46SPEAKERbetween school and afterschool activities

59:48SPEAKERand stuff like that.

59:49SPEAKER- It is not great.

59:53SPEAKERLike being busy all the time sucks.

59:55SPEAKER- Yeah, it's not a good way to live.

59:57SPEAKERYou know what? - No.

59:58SPEAKER- I have come to the realization more and more over time

1:00:00SPEAKERthat you only get one life and it would be cool

1:00:02SPEAKERif you didn't spend the entire thing.

1:00:05SPEAKER- Overbooking is bad.

1:00:07SPEAKER- Doing bad, yes. - Yes, exactly.

1:00:09SPEAKER- Maybe if the general workforce

1:00:13SPEAKERhad a little more flexibility, they might all be happier

1:00:17SPEAKERand more productive and less likely

1:00:19SPEAKERto be very angry all the time.

1:00:22SPEAKER- Well, that's a nice thought.

1:00:23SPEAKER- I don't know.

1:00:24SPEAKERAnyway.

1:00:25SPEAKER- I've got a daylight savings factoid.

1:00:27SPEAKERI thought this one was fake, but it turns out it's true.

1:00:29SPEAKER- Go on.

1:00:30SPEAKER- The 2007 extension that added,

1:00:32SPEAKERdaylight savings time used to be the last weekend,

1:00:34SPEAKERlast Sunday in March to the last Sunday in October.

1:00:36SPEAKER- Oh, there was a specific extension?

1:00:39SPEAKERLike I never noticed that,

1:00:40SPEAKERbut that's one of the things I thought coming into this

1:00:42SPEAKERwas like it used to seem like it was like less of the year

1:00:46SPEAKERand it just kind of creeps more and more across the year

1:00:48SPEAKERas time goes on.

1:00:49SPEAKER- Well, so they moved it up

1:00:50SPEAKERto the first Sunday in November, I think,

1:00:53SPEAKERor second, yeah, first Sunday in November,

1:00:55SPEAKERwhich is this today for listeners.

1:00:58SPEAKERAnd that happened in 2007.

1:01:00SPEAKER- Okay.

1:01:02SPEAKER- I don't know that the candy industry was the driver,

1:01:04SPEAKERbut they strongly supported this

1:01:07SPEAKERbecause they wanted Halloween to take place

1:01:09SPEAKERinside the confines of daylight savings time.

1:01:11SPEAKER- They sure did.

1:01:12SPEAKER- It's probably safer too.

1:01:13SPEAKERFewer kids can get run over by cars

1:01:15SPEAKERif it's not pitch black out.

1:01:16SPEAKER- Just as Mother's Day is such a greeting card holiday.

1:01:20SPEAKERYeah, daylight savings is such a candy industry holiday.

1:01:24SPEAKER- Big tree lobby should come out against Mother's Day.

1:01:28SPEAKERLook, okay, hold on.

1:01:29SPEAKERI take that back.

1:01:30SPEAKERI apologize for saying anything bad about Mother's Day.

1:01:34SPEAKER- I've got nothing against Mother's Day.

1:01:35SPEAKER- No one should come after Mother's Day.

1:01:36SPEAKERMother's Day is great.

1:01:37SPEAKERWe all love Mother's Day.

1:01:38SPEAKERWe support mothers.

1:01:39SPEAKER- I was being mildly flip.

1:01:41SPEAKER- Yes, I don't want the Mother's Day lobby

1:01:43SPEAKERto come after us.

1:01:44SPEAKERBrad, we can't take that kind of heat.

1:01:46SPEAKER- No.

1:01:49SPEAKERSo yeah, let's see.

1:01:50SPEAKERI think that pretty much brings us up to the present.

1:01:54SPEAKER2007 was like the last major change, right?

1:01:56SPEAKER- Seems like it.

1:01:57SPEAKERThere's been constant,

1:01:59SPEAKERthere's been kind of movement

1:02:00SPEAKERon the year round daylight savings time front though.

1:02:03SPEAKERAlthough I do think if we do that,

1:02:05SPEAKERwe'll have to,

1:02:07SPEAKERschool in the United States is fraught

1:02:09SPEAKERbecause for a pretty significant portion of the population,

1:02:13SPEAKERas we learned in the last year,

1:02:14SPEAKERschool is synonymous with daycare for their children

1:02:18SPEAKERfor a lot of people here.

1:02:20SPEAKERSo like if we start,

1:02:23SPEAKERif the sun starts coming up later,

1:02:24SPEAKERthen we gotta push school start times back

1:02:26SPEAKERso that people don't get hit by cars

1:02:27SPEAKERand I don't know, it's complicated.

1:02:30SPEAKER- Yeah, so I think the last thing to talk about here

1:02:32SPEAKERis this Bloomberg story you sent me from 2015.

1:02:36SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:02:36SPEAKER- Makes a pretty strong case

1:02:37SPEAKERfor just getting rid of daylight savings time.

1:02:39SPEAKER- Yes, just stay permanent daylight savings time

1:02:41SPEAKERall the time, exactly.

1:02:42SPEAKER- Nope, getting rid of it as in it doesn't exist anymore.

1:02:44SPEAKER- Yep, we just spring forward once and then never fall back.

1:02:46SPEAKER- Nope, nope, like we're on to the time that God intended,

1:02:50SPEAKERwhich is not daylight savings time.

1:02:53SPEAKERThe title of the story is the maps that prove

1:02:55SPEAKERthe daylight saving cycle is ruining our lives.

1:02:57SPEAKER- God couldn't build a clock, Brad.

1:03:00SPEAKER- No, apparently not.

1:03:03SPEAKERThe story cites a lot of the same statistics you did

1:03:05SPEAKERabout it no longer reduces electric demand

1:03:08SPEAKERlike it used to, messes up sleep schedules.

1:03:12SPEAKERThey cite $400 million in economic losses a year.

1:03:16SPEAKER- I'm incredibly skeptical of those numbers

1:03:18SPEAKERjust for the record.

1:03:19SPEAKER- In addition to the traffic accidents, heart attacks,

1:03:20SPEAKERseasonal affective, et cetera, et cetera.

1:03:23SPEAKERBut the actual basis, I'll put the link for the story

1:03:27SPEAKERin the show notes.

1:03:30SPEAKERAre you familiar?

1:03:30SPEAKERI'm not familiar with a group called Access Maps,

1:03:32SPEAKERbut one of their cartographers, Andy Woodruff,

1:03:34SPEAKERproduced some maps about daylight savings time.

1:03:38SPEAKERDoes Access Maps mean anything to you?

1:03:39SPEAKER- No.

1:03:40SPEAKER- I should have maybe.

1:03:41SPEAKER- I worry with that name that they have some

1:03:44SPEAKERsort of unfortunate.

1:03:46SPEAKER- Wait, we're not getting back into World War II stuff,

1:03:48SPEAKERare we?

1:03:49SPEAKER- I hope not.

1:03:50SPEAKER(laughing)

1:03:52SPEAKER- Maybe we should stop.

1:03:53SPEAKER- Oh no, no, they're just a map consultant agency.

1:03:56SPEAKER- Yes, they are.

1:03:57SPEAKERSo we bring the traditions of cartography to the web,

1:03:59SPEAKERthey say.

1:04:00SPEAKERI should have looked them up before I cited this,

1:04:02SPEAKERbut I mean Bloomberg ran it.

1:04:03SPEAKERHow untrustworthy could it be?

1:04:06SPEAKER- Oh yeah, Bloomberg's fine.

1:04:07SPEAKERI always think about fortune.

1:04:08SPEAKERDo you think that these are like the people

1:04:10SPEAKERwho came on that episode of West Wing?

1:04:12SPEAKERThe big block of cheese episode when they come in

1:04:14SPEAKERand they're like, hey, we used the wrong projection

1:04:15SPEAKERfor the map so everything looks,

1:04:17SPEAKERthe North States look big and the South States look small?

1:04:20SPEAKER- I've never actually seen the West Wing.

1:04:21SPEAKER- Oh my God, okay.

1:04:22SPEAKERIf you, you don't need to watch the West Wing

1:04:24SPEAKERto appreciate the big block of cheese episode,

1:04:26SPEAKERthat's all I'm gonna say.

1:04:27SPEAKER- What are you just talking about, data being massaged?

1:04:29SPEAKER- They, so, oh God, okay.

1:04:31SPEAKERI'm gonna recap a 30 year old TV, 20 year old TV show.

1:04:34SPEAKERAndrew Johnson, or I don't know,

1:04:37SPEAKERone of the bad Tennessee presidents

1:04:39SPEAKERput a big block of cheese once a year in the White House

1:04:42SPEAKERand people could come in and have a piece of cheese.

1:04:43SPEAKER- Oh, this was historical?

1:04:44SPEAKER- As told through the lens of the West Wing, yes.

1:04:46SPEAKER- Apocryphal?

1:04:47SPEAKER- Okay, possibly apocryphal.

1:04:49SPEAKER- Okay, sorkin-ful.

1:04:51SPEAKER- It is a sorkinesque, it is a perfect sorkin story.

1:04:57SPEAKERLike the idea is that you could come and pitch your thing

1:05:00SPEAKERthat government should try to address during that one day.

1:05:03SPEAKERLike anybody could come.

1:05:04SPEAKERAnd so they got a lot, they had a process

1:05:07SPEAKERwhere they did a bunch of applications every year

1:05:09SPEAKERand then they would pick the ones

1:05:10SPEAKERand like some of them were like,

1:05:11SPEAKERwe should get rid of the penny people.

1:05:13SPEAKERLike it's the kooks, Brad.

1:05:15SPEAKEROne of them is the map, the remapping people,

1:05:18SPEAKERthe people who are like, hey,

1:05:19SPEAKERwe use the wrong projection for the map.

1:05:21SPEAKERThe one we use is entirely Western centric.

1:05:23SPEAKERIt's Northern hemisphere and Western hemisphere focused.

1:05:27SPEAKERIt's designed to make the places that are small look big

1:05:29SPEAKERso that it looks like the United States and Russia

1:05:32SPEAKERare the two biggest places in the world.

1:05:34SPEAKERAnd yada, yada, yada.

1:05:35SPEAKERAnyway, it's a good episode, you should watch it.

1:05:37SPEAKERIt stands on its own.

1:05:39SPEAKER- Okay, I assume these assertions can be checked.

1:05:43SPEAKERLike I assume other people could produce,

1:05:45SPEAKERpeer review this stuff.

1:05:46SPEAKER- Okay, so the thing about the economic losses and spend,

1:05:50SPEAKERit is such a, like the daylight savings time shift,

1:05:53SPEAKERit's like the traffic fatalities, right?

1:05:56SPEAKERIt's like the traffic accidents.

1:05:57SPEAKERLike if you just look at accidents

1:05:59SPEAKERthat happened during the morning commute,

1:06:00SPEAKERyes, it's easy to look at those numbers

1:06:02SPEAKERand make what seems like a cohesive argument

1:06:05SPEAKERin a full picture.

1:06:06SPEAKERWhen you look at the overall trend of like,

1:06:09SPEAKERyou know, how many lives are saved

1:06:10SPEAKERduring the 830 to 930 window when it's light,

1:06:14SPEAKERwhen it wouldn't be all summer long

1:06:16SPEAKERbecause there aren't traffic accident,

1:06:17SPEAKERthe traffic accident rate is reduced

1:06:19SPEAKERduring that time period, it changes the dynamic entirely.

1:06:23SPEAKERAnd it's really, really complicated.

1:06:24SPEAKER- Of course, sorry, I should have been more specific.

1:06:26SPEAKERI'm talking specifically about these maps produced

1:06:29SPEAKERby Andy Woodruff of Axis maps,

1:06:32SPEAKERbecause all these maps show is,

1:06:33SPEAKERso he starts out by defining a reasonable sunrise time

1:06:37SPEAKERand a reasonable sunset time.

1:06:39SPEAKERReasonable sunrises are 7 a.m. or earlier,

1:06:41SPEAKERreasonable sunset times are 5 p.m. or later, right?

1:06:45SPEAKER- Who is he to say who the sunrise and sunset time is?

1:06:49SPEAKER- These are basically United States heat maps.

1:06:51SPEAKERAgain, I'll link this.

1:06:52SPEAKERLike it kind of shows like by time zone

1:06:55SPEAKERwhere in the country, how many days a year

1:06:57SPEAKERyou're getting these reasonable sunsets and sunrises

1:06:59SPEAKERbased on where you are in different time zones, right?

1:07:01SPEAKERSo like that could be checked, like that's objective data.

1:07:03SPEAKERThat's not interpreting traffic fatality statistics

1:07:06SPEAKERand stuff.

1:07:08SPEAKERBut the argument, in fact, not even the argument,

1:07:10SPEAKERlike what these maps show is that

1:07:14SPEAKERif daylight savings time were abolished,

1:07:17SPEAKERwe would be getting basically the same number

1:07:19SPEAKERof reasonable sunsets throughout the year,

1:07:22SPEAKERbut we would also be getting way more reasonable sunrises.

1:07:26SPEAKERSo essentially, according to his maps,

1:07:29SPEAKERand again, people are gonna look at this

1:07:30SPEAKERand make up their own minds,

1:07:31SPEAKERbut according to his maps,

1:07:32SPEAKERwe are actually giving up a lot of good early sun sunlight

1:07:36SPEAKERin the morning for no real gain in number of days

1:07:38SPEAKERwith good late sunset times.

1:07:42SPEAKERAlso, if you scroll down to the, if daylight savings time,

1:07:48SPEAKERwere always in effect maps, then we have basically 365 days

1:07:53SPEAKERa year of 5 p.m. or later sunsets,

1:07:56SPEAKERbut almost zero times when the sun is up before 7 a.m.

1:08:00SPEAKER- I'm gonna go ahead and tell you,

1:08:01SPEAKERif you're up before 7 a.m. and you want to see

1:08:03SPEAKERsome sun sunrise, get wrecked.

1:08:05SPEAKER- I do.

1:08:06SPEAKER- I'm gonna have a sunset guy through and through.

1:08:08SPEAKER- (sighs)

1:08:09SPEAKER- Live by the sunset, die by the sunset, Brad.

1:08:10SPEAKER- Having worked from home for what, six years now,

1:08:13SPEAKERin your case, I'm gonna tell you,

1:08:15SPEAKERpeople who have to get up early

1:08:16SPEAKERand go out the door early to work

1:08:17SPEAKERmay have a word or two with you.

1:08:19SPEAKER- Look, I live in an eight by 10 foot cell, 18 hours a day.

1:08:24SPEAKER- I don't know, like as someone who frequently

1:08:28SPEAKERdoes wake up early, waking up when it's still dark out

1:08:30SPEAKERis kind of gross.

1:08:33SPEAKER- I gotta tell you, just stop waking up early.

1:08:36SPEAKERThis solved that problem.

1:08:38SPEAKER- I mean, judging purely by these maps,

1:08:40SPEAKERthe getting rid of daylight savings time permanently

1:08:42SPEAKERis by far the best compromise position.

1:08:45SPEAKER- What is a map, really, Brad?

1:08:47SPEAKERThis is one person's bias, writ to paper.

1:08:50SPEAKER- Like, this is a pretty--

1:08:54SPEAKER- Propaganda.

1:08:55SPEAKER- Pretty strong argument that daylight savings time

1:08:57SPEAKERis not actually benefiting us much at all.

1:08:59SPEAKER- This Andy Woodruff guy, if that's even really his name,

1:09:04SPEAKERI'm incredibly skeptical.

1:09:07SPEAKER- These maps also make it pretty clear

1:09:10SPEAKERhow you're extra getting screwed the farther,

1:09:13SPEAKERsee, I got it, the farther west you are in a time zone.

1:09:16SPEAKER- And the farther north, yeah.

1:09:17SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:09:18SPEAKER- If you live in the northwest corner of a time zone,

1:09:20SPEAKERjust you might as well plan to never see the sun.

1:09:22SPEAKER- Well, at least for sunrises.

1:09:23SPEAKERLike, you can see in this heat map,

1:09:24SPEAKERlike the farther west you are in a time zone,

1:09:26SPEAKERthe worse you get in terms of good sunrise times.

1:09:29SPEAKER- Yep.

1:09:30SPEAKER- Although this diagonal split in the time zones

1:09:33SPEAKERfor sunsets is interesting.

1:09:35SPEAKER- Well, that is specifically because of the change

1:09:38SPEAKERin the angle of incidence in the wintertime of the sun.

1:09:40SPEAKER- Sure, sure.

1:09:42SPEAKER- I don't know, man.

1:09:43SPEAKERThe secret, so I lived in Nashville for a little while,

1:09:46SPEAKERwhich is on the east side of a time zone.

1:09:47SPEAKERIt was always dark there, I didn't like that.

1:09:49SPEAKERI like living on the west side of a time zone better.

1:09:51SPEAKERIn California, where we live on the coast,

1:09:53SPEAKERwe're kind of right on the edge of the time zone.

1:09:54SPEAKERIt's not great.

1:09:56SPEAKERI mean, right in the middle, rather.

1:09:57SPEAKER- Yeah, the worst of all worlds.

1:09:59SPEAKER- Maybe we should move to Indiana.

1:10:00SPEAKERMaybe I was wrong about Indiana.

1:10:01SPEAKER- Oh, boy. - Maybe it's okay.

1:10:02SPEAKER- You know, I don't know that the people

1:10:04SPEAKERof Indianapolis are going to receive you with open arms

1:10:06SPEAKERafter what you said, but.

1:10:07SPEAKER- I did say some bad, I'm sorry, Indianapolis, I love you.

1:10:09SPEAKERI've been there twice, it was very fun both times.

1:10:11SPEAKER- I bet.

1:10:12SPEAKER- What's their specialty?

1:10:13SPEAKER- What's the local cuisine?

1:10:15SPEAKER- I don't know, but I didn't order chili

1:10:17SPEAKERand get some weird spaghetti business, so I was whatever.

1:10:20SPEAKER- That's not them.

1:10:21SPEAKER- No, that's Ohio.

1:10:22SPEAKER- That's Cincinnati. - Cincinnati, I believe.

1:10:23SPEAKER- Cincinnati chili.

1:10:24SPEAKER- Yeah, Indianapolis cuisine.

1:10:26SPEAKERLet's finish this one out by talking about food.

1:10:28SPEAKEROh, boy.

1:10:29SPEAKERThese 10 foods and drinks are beloved in Indianapolis.

1:10:33SPEAKERA tenderloin sandwich.

1:10:35SPEAKER- Ooh, I like a tenderloin.

1:10:36SPEAKERGive me some tendies.

1:10:37SPEAKER- Fried pickles.

1:10:38SPEAKERI mean, fried pickles are not exclusive to Indiana,

1:10:42SPEAKERbut fried pickles are pretty good.

1:10:44SPEAKERA sugar cream pie, ooh, that sounds.

1:10:47SPEAKER- It seems like it might be too sweet.

1:10:48SPEAKER- Square donuts?

1:10:50SPEAKER- What, what, what?

1:10:51SPEAKERSquare donuts.

1:10:52SPEAKER- All right, we're done here.

1:10:54SPEAKER- Yeah, shut it down.

1:10:55SPEAKERI'm back on the Indianapolis hate train.

1:10:57SPEAKER- Couldn't you fit more donut in the box

1:10:59SPEAKERif they were square?

1:11:00SPEAKER- Look, if you're talking about maximizing the efficiency

1:11:03SPEAKERof your donut box, then you've already lost.

1:11:06SPEAKERIt's already done.

1:11:07SPEAKER- Then you're listening to the tech pod.

1:11:09SPEAKER(laughing)

1:11:10SPEAKER(upbeat music)

1:11:12SPEAKER- We got a letter from a chronobiologist,

1:11:15SPEAKERwhich is a person who studies the biology of time

1:11:18SPEAKERand circadian rhythms and stuff like that.

1:11:20SPEAKER- Oh my God, this is worth reading.

1:11:22SPEAKER- And they asked me not to put their name in,

1:11:23SPEAKERso I'm not going to do that.

1:11:25SPEAKERIt's kind of long.

1:11:26SPEAKERAs a biologist working in the sleep

1:11:28SPEAKERand circadian rhythms field,

1:11:29SPEAKERI wanted to commend you for not fucking up

1:11:30SPEAKERyour daylight savings time episode.

1:11:33SPEAKER- Thank you.

1:11:33SPEAKER- Yes.

1:11:35SPEAKERThat was a scary one.

1:11:36SPEAKERToo many people have overlooked the argument

1:11:38SPEAKERthat daylight saving time should be permanently abolished,

1:11:40SPEAKEReven though that is by far the consensus position

1:11:44SPEAKERof chronobiologists.

1:11:45SPEAKERI'd wager even more than the manmade CO2 consensus

1:11:49SPEAKERamong climate researchers.

1:11:51SPEAKERIt looks like that's changing slowly,

1:11:52SPEAKERbut hasn't yet reached the awareness

1:11:53SPEAKERof enough legislators in the US or in Canada,

1:11:57SPEAKERwhere the government is attempting to move

1:11:58SPEAKERto permanent daylight saving,

1:12:00SPEAKEReven though the effects would be among the worst possible

1:12:02SPEAKERfor a large city like Vancouver.

1:12:05SPEAKERThe largest analysis of car accidents

1:12:07SPEAKERfollowing the spring forward transition

1:12:09SPEAKERwas published about two years ago.

1:12:10SPEAKERIt's the one that I referenced.

1:12:14SPEAKERThere was an acute increase

1:12:15SPEAKERat both the morning and afternoon driving times,

1:12:17SPEAKERwhich was more pronounced at the western ends of time zones.

1:12:20SPEAKERI'd be remiss if I didn't point out the acute effects of DST

1:12:23SPEAKERare not the only ones to be concerned about.

1:12:25SPEAKERThere's growing evidence of chronic health disturbances

1:12:27SPEAKERfrom having our social clock be mismatched

1:12:29SPEAKERwith the solar time throughout the year.

1:12:32SPEAKERFor example, this large-scale epidemiological study

1:12:34SPEAKERfound that living on the western end of a time zone

1:12:36SPEAKERincreases risk for at least a dozen types of cancer

1:12:38SPEAKERby anywhere from five to 10%.

1:12:40SPEAKER- Jeez.

1:12:41SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:12:43SPEAKEROne last thing.

1:12:44SPEAKERThe best argument against permanent DST

1:12:45SPEAKERmay be that Russia moved to permanent DST in 2012,

1:12:48SPEAKERand everyone hated it so much

1:12:49SPEAKERthey moved back after two years.

1:12:52SPEAKERIf I was a gambling man,

1:12:53SPEAKERI'd say that's likely how many of your northern states

1:12:55SPEAKERwould react, especially the ones

1:12:56SPEAKERon the western side of time zones, it seems like.

1:12:59SPEAKERAnd then I asked a follow-up question,

1:13:00SPEAKER'cause I was like, this is fascinating,

1:13:01SPEAKERhow are we gonna talk to somebody with this skillset?

1:13:03SPEAKER- Seriously.

1:13:04SPEAKER- And I wanted to know,

1:13:07SPEAKERdoes this mean we need more time,

1:13:09SPEAKERdoes the western edge of the time zone thing

1:13:11SPEAKERbeing out of sync with the sun

1:13:13SPEAKERmean that we need to shrink and have more time zones

1:13:17SPEAKERto shrink the overall width,

1:13:18SPEAKERand ease the pain for the folks

1:13:19SPEAKERon the western edge of existing time zones?

1:13:21SPEAKER- I love it.

1:13:23SPEAKER- And they said,

1:13:24SPEAKERsmaller times zones would be one solution.

1:13:26SPEAKERWe even have a time zone in Canada

1:13:27SPEAKERthat's offset by 30 minutes in Newfoundland.

1:13:30SPEAKERThere's also a related issue

1:13:31SPEAKERthat the location of some time zones

1:13:32SPEAKERis just stupid relative to the solar day.

1:13:35SPEAKERFor example, the western edge of Spain

1:13:36SPEAKERis on the same time as the eastern edge of Poland,

1:13:39SPEAKEReven though the difference in sunrise in December

1:13:40SPEAKERis almost two hours.

1:13:42SPEAKERSo going to work in Spain at 8 a.m.

1:13:44SPEAKERfeels like going to work at 6 a.m. in Poland,

1:13:46SPEAKERall other things being equal,

1:13:48SPEAKERwhich they aren't exactly, but the effect is substantial.

1:13:50SPEAKERThink a more effective general solution

1:13:52SPEAKERwould be the thing that you mentioned in the podcast

1:13:55SPEAKERfor school kids,

1:13:56SPEAKERwhich is where you move work obligations

1:13:57SPEAKERto start later in the day and make them more flexible.

1:14:00SPEAKERMoving every nine to five job to a 10 to six

1:14:02SPEAKERwould also be equivalent to moving the clocks one hour

1:14:04SPEAKERin the opposite direction of daylight savings time.

1:14:06SPEAKERBut I think it might be harder to sell to frame it that way.

1:14:10SPEAKERIt's likely low grade chronic sleep disruption

1:14:12SPEAKERthat's causing the deleterious long-term health effects

1:14:15SPEAKERat the western edge of time zones,

1:14:16SPEAKERbecause people with circadian rhythms

1:14:18SPEAKERthat are physiologically predisposed

1:14:20SPEAKERto waking up later in the solar day

1:14:22SPEAKERare being forced to wake up too early to go to work.

1:14:25SPEAKERI'll be interested to see future data

1:14:26SPEAKERabout people who have switched to working from home

1:14:28SPEAKERand cut their commute times out of their morning routine

1:14:30SPEAKERand hopefully replace them with better and more sleep.

1:14:34SPEAKERSo that's fascinating.

1:14:34SPEAKER- Wow, man. - I thought.