00:00SPEAKERwe've had a profound revelation.
00:01SPEAKER- Yeah, like 101 episodes, 102 episodes by some counts,
00:05SPEAKERby some reckoning.
00:06SPEAKER- Into the hundreds, we are into triple digits here
00:08SPEAKERand we have only just now realized
00:11SPEAKERthat if we started recording,
00:12SPEAKERthe second we sit down and get into this video call.
00:15SPEAKER- Yeah, it turns out.
00:16SPEAKER- We could catch all these false start cold opens
00:18SPEAKERbefore they happen.
00:19SPEAKER- Man, we have lost so many good cold opens.
00:22SPEAKERWe could do at least two more cold open episodes
00:24SPEAKERwith the stuff we've lost.
00:25SPEAKER- All these cold opens like tears in the rain.
00:29SPEAKERIf we do a cold open and no one's there to hear it,
00:33SPEAKERis it, did anything open at all?
00:35SPEAKER- We're too early in the episode
00:37SPEAKERto answer these such questions.
00:39SPEAKERSo far, okay, so far we've had you schooling your wife
00:42SPEAKERon the realities of rental internet access.
00:46SPEAKER- Yeah, we're getting ready to go on a trip
00:47SPEAKERand it's like in a way, but I'm still working
00:52SPEAKERand I'm probably, my intent is to still stream,
00:54SPEAKERlike I'm taking my desktop PC with me.
00:56SPEAKERSo she was like, okay, I was like,
01:00SPEAKERmy first question when she's like,
01:01SPEAKERhey, check out this place, it looks amazing.
01:03SPEAKERIt's got like three bathrooms, there's a pool.
01:05SPEAKERLike Bay Area realities are like any place
01:07SPEAKERwith more than one toilet, I'm good.
01:09SPEAKERLike that's all I'm excited about at this point.
01:11SPEAKERBut she sends me these amazing places.
01:13SPEAKERI'm like, hey, what's the internet like?
01:14SPEAKERShe's like, let me ask.
01:17SPEAKERAnd then she says, okay, they got 200 megabits down
01:21SPEAKERand 10 megabits up.
01:22SPEAKERI was like, no, that's not gonna do it.
01:24SPEAKERShe's like, okay, this one says he has 40 megabits down
01:26SPEAKERand 20 megabits up.
01:27SPEAKERI was like, okay, we're kind of in the realm there.
01:30SPEAKERThat might be doable.
01:31SPEAKERShe's like, well, what do we have?
01:33SPEAKER20 megabits up sounds great.
01:34SPEAKERI was like, we have a thousand megabits down
01:36SPEAKERand a thousand megabits up.
01:37SPEAKERShe's like, oh.
01:39SPEAKER- Eyes like dinner plates.
01:41SPEAKER- Yeah, anyway, we found a place with fiber as the TLDR.
01:44SPEAKER- Great, great, how many bathrooms though?
01:46SPEAKERI mean, I guess the bathrooms.
01:46SPEAKER- Three bathrooms. - Oh, wow.
01:48SPEAKER- And a pool.
01:48SPEAKER- The best of all possible worlds.
01:50SPEAKER- Yeah, look, I'm excited about a pool.
01:52SPEAKERI'm not gonna lie, I wanna get up in the morning,
01:54SPEAKERgo for a swim, shake the cobwebs out in the pool.
01:58SPEAKER- Okay, so there was that one,
01:59SPEAKERthere was the one that ended up with us spit balling
02:02SPEAKERabout a USB powered shock collar for me.
02:04SPEAKER- I don't know, is talking about that one
02:06SPEAKERgonna make the thing, the USB shock collar
02:08SPEAKERwould help better or worse?
02:09SPEAKER- I don't know.
02:11SPEAKERTrying to, I've spent a lot of time editing myself
02:14SPEAKERthe last few weeks.
02:15SPEAKER- Oh no, don't ever listen to yourself, Brad.
02:18SPEAKER- I mean, it's agonizing, don't get me wrong.
02:20SPEAKERLike it is nails on a chalkboard for hours on end.
02:24SPEAKERBut the upside of editing yourself
02:26SPEAKERis you realize all of the awful verbal ticks
02:28SPEAKERthat you need to just eliminate upfront.
02:31SPEAKERSo you then don't have to edit them later.
02:33SPEAKER- So I'm gonna tell you a thing
02:35SPEAKERthat our departed friend Ryan Davis told me
02:38SPEAKERearly, early on in the days of Tested,
02:40SPEAKERwhich is, 'cause like I did this.
02:43SPEAKERI'm the first, if you go back and listen
02:44SPEAKERto like episode one through five of the Tested podcast,
02:47SPEAKERI went through and spent four hours every night
02:49SPEAKERafter we recorded that,
02:50SPEAKERediting out all the ums and the pauses and the hitches.
02:53SPEAKER- It's awful.
02:54SPEAKER- And Ryan listened to it and he's like,
02:57SPEAKER"Sometimes you just gotta let the room breathe, man."
03:00SPEAKERI was like, "What the fuck does that mean?"
03:01SPEAKERHe said, "You just gotta let the room breathe."
03:03SPEAKERI don't know if he knew what it meant,
03:05SPEAKERbut I stopped editing out the ums and the pauses
03:09SPEAKERand the things that annoyed me
03:11SPEAKERabout the way that I speak on the reg, so.
03:13SPEAKER- And no complaints.
03:14SPEAKER- No one complained, no one even noticed.
03:16SPEAKER- Yes.
03:16SPEAKER- So there you go.
03:17SPEAKER- For me, it's an occasional kind of halting manner
03:20SPEAKERof speech in the middle of sentences,
03:21SPEAKERlike long pauses and that break up my thoughts.
03:24SPEAKERAnd also I talk over you too much.
03:25SPEAKERAnd so that's where the shock collar came in
03:28SPEAKERbecause I said, "I think I just need to learn
03:30SPEAKERto control myself more."
03:31SPEAKERAnd then this would be, we would obviate the problem upfront
03:34SPEAKERand not have to fix it on the backend.
03:36SPEAKER- We had, Chloe, rest in peace,
03:40SPEAKERhad a vibrating collar that was an anti-bark collar.
03:44SPEAKERIt wasn't a shock collar, but it had like,
03:46SPEAKERit made a buzzing noise and it had a little rumbler in it
03:51SPEAKERthat when she would bark, it would rumble.
03:52SPEAKERAnd she did not like that at all.
03:54SPEAKER- That sounds both effective.
03:55SPEAKERAnd see, I just talked over you.
03:56SPEAKERThat sounds both effective and humane
03:58SPEAKERas opposed to a shock collar,
04:00SPEAKERwhich I don't think we can endorse in any context.
04:02SPEAKER- I think the shock collar is bad
04:03SPEAKERunless it's consensual on both ends.
04:05SPEAKER- Okay, that's fair.
04:06SPEAKERYes, that's the one context.
04:08SPEAKER- Yeah.
04:08SPEAKER(laughing)
04:09SPEAKER- A shock collar is permissible.
04:12SPEAKER- Just to be clear,
04:13SPEAKERthe dog could not give consent to the shock collar.
04:15SPEAKER- Yes, that's not-
04:16SPEAKER- Barks do not indicate consent.
04:18SPEAKER- Right.
04:19SPEAKERWell, once Facebook realizes its grand plan
04:21SPEAKERfor the metaverse,
04:21SPEAKERmaybe dogs will be able to talk to us and express their-
04:24SPEAKER- Look, if you could elevate,
04:26SPEAKERone of my favorite like '60s science fiction tropes
04:28SPEAKERis the idea that we were gonna start elevating
04:30SPEAKERdifferent animals to human or near human level sentience.
04:34SPEAKERAnd that it wasn't going to be for purely capitalistic means.
04:37SPEAKER- Wait, through like genetic engineering
04:39SPEAKERor animals that are-
04:40SPEAKER- Genetic engineering technology, you know,
04:41SPEAKERa little from column A, a little from column B.
04:42SPEAKER- Not animals that are almost there already,
04:44SPEAKERlike dolphins and elephants.
04:46SPEAKER- I think you start with the dolphins
04:48SPEAKERand the pigs and the elephants, yeah.
04:49SPEAKERProbably, maybe the octopodes.
04:51SPEAKER- The octopi, yeah.
04:53SPEAKER- But no, yeah, the idea is that like,
04:55SPEAKERjust out of the goodness of our heart,
04:57SPEAKERbecause we want to share our universe
04:58SPEAKERwith more intelligent species,
04:59SPEAKER'cause there's nothing out there,
05:01SPEAKERwe elevate the chimpanzees and the dogs and the dolphins
05:04SPEAKERand the octopi.
05:09SPEAKERWhere would you start?
05:10SPEAKERWhat's your first animal you'd elevate?
05:11SPEAKER- Like what animal would I want to hang out with?
05:14SPEAKER- Yeah, which animal would you like to have a chat with?
05:17SPEAKER- What animal would I like to crack a beer with
05:18SPEAKERand just chill?
05:19SPEAKER- Yeah, would you like pick the pigs
05:21SPEAKERor like you think that like their needs
05:23SPEAKERare relatively straightforward,
05:25SPEAKERmaybe not interesting to talk about?
05:26SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't know that there's a lot
05:27SPEAKERgoing on upstairs there.
05:29SPEAKER- The popcorning is very compelling.
05:31SPEAKER- It's true, I mean, they communicate so much
05:33SPEAKERthrough body language already.
05:34SPEAKER- That's true.
05:36SPEAKER- God, who would be chill?
05:38SPEAKERI'm trying to think of a primate with a prehensile tail,
05:40SPEAKERbecause I think that would be pretty great
05:42SPEAKERto just be like, hey, could you pass me another beer
05:45SPEAKERand have the tail hand the beer over?
05:48SPEAKER- I think the tail's too close to the butt for me.
05:51SPEAKERI'll tell you, I would go with geese.
05:53SPEAKERI want to find out why geese are such assholes.
05:55SPEAKERBe like, hey man, what's wrong with you?
05:57SPEAKERYou got it all, you swim all the time.
05:59SPEAKERYou poop anywhere you want with reckless abandon.
06:02SPEAKERLike you have a good squeaker, you make good noises.
06:04SPEAKERWhy are you so upset all the time, man?
06:06SPEAKERNothing eats you.
06:07SPEAKER- Some things are better left to the internal monologue,
06:09SPEAKERI think.
06:12SPEAKER(upbeat music)
06:42SPEAKER- Welcome to Brad and Will Made at TechPod, I'm Will.
06:45SPEAKER- I'm Brad.
06:46SPEAKER- Hello, Brad.
06:47SPEAKER- Hi, how are you?
06:48SPEAKER- I'm doing great, man.
06:49SPEAKERIt's Saturday morning, I'm wearing my jammy pants.
06:53SPEAKERI just had an iced coffee, I'm good to go, man.
06:55SPEAKER- About to take a little trip down south.
06:58SPEAKER- I got the full podcast brain ready to go.
07:01SPEAKERWell, I got another week before the trip.
07:02SPEAKERWe're leaving on Sunday.
07:03SPEAKER- Yeah, but it's pending.
07:04SPEAKERYou know it's coming, so you've got that lift.
07:07SPEAKERYou've got the little spring in your step
07:09SPEAKERknowing that a fun trip is on the way.
07:11SPEAKER- I haven't left the house in 18.
07:12SPEAKERI haven't left my county, really, in 18 months.
07:15SPEAKER- Boy, that's a lot.
07:16SPEAKERI mean, you guys have really been battening down the hatches.
07:18SPEAKER- I mean, we have no threat profile,
07:20SPEAKERso there's no reason for us, other than sanity,
07:23SPEAKERthere's no reason for us to do anything
07:25SPEAKERthat we don't have to.
07:26SPEAKER- Seems like sanity is a key consideration, to be fair.
07:29SPEAKER- It's becoming more important every day,
07:30SPEAKERI'm not gonna lie.
07:31SPEAKER- Yeah, so you do reach a breaking point sooner or later.
07:34SPEAKER- I've been to San Francisco a few times,
07:36SPEAKERand I went over the San Mateo Bridge
07:40SPEAKERto pick up a bike in Hayward one day,
07:42SPEAKERbut that's it for my dog.
07:42SPEAKER- You guys still ordering groceries and everything,
07:45SPEAKERthe whole thing?
07:46SPEAKER- Yeah, we do curbside pickup sometimes,
07:47SPEAKERbut mostly ordered.
07:48SPEAKERYeah, man, it's kind of expensive, it turns out.
07:50SPEAKERI was looking at our grocery bill for the last year
07:53SPEAKERversus the 10 years before, I was like,
07:54SPEAKERwow, it doesn't seem like it's that much more expensive,
07:57SPEAKERbut it really sneaks up on you.
07:58SPEAKER- Yeah, it's a working trip, though, right?
08:00SPEAKERLike, how much stuff are you hauling down there?
08:02SPEAKERLike, how many computers are coming with?
08:04SPEAKER- I'm bringing a desktop and a laptop.
08:07SPEAKER- Okay.
08:08SPEAKER- And then, I mean, the thing is,
08:09SPEAKERwe're literally not leaving the house when we get down there.
08:11SPEAKERWe might go to like Joshua Tree or something like that
08:12SPEAKERand do some hiking or something,
08:14SPEAKERbut it'll be like shorts and T-shirts,
08:16SPEAKERso there's not a lot of clothing that needs to come.
08:18SPEAKER- Sure.
08:20SPEAKER- And yeah, so we're gonna load as much shit
08:22SPEAKERinto the bolt as we can and hit the road.
08:25SPEAKERIt's a small car, though.
08:27SPEAKER- Pray that the battery doesn't explode
08:29SPEAKERor whatever it is that's going on there.
08:30SPEAKER- So, yeah, they just announced a recall for our car.
08:35SPEAKERThis is a followup for a past episode.
08:38SPEAKERThey don't have the batteries yet,
08:39SPEAKERso we can't get it done until after they have the batteries,
08:42SPEAKERso it'll be a little while.
08:43SPEAKER- Oh, is it just a battery swap?
08:44SPEAKER- It's just a battery swap, yeah.
08:45SPEAKER- Oh, that's not so bad.
08:46SPEAKER- Yeah, it's not a big deal.
08:47SPEAKER- Yeah, so, well, enjoy.
08:50SPEAKER- Yeah, we put like 1,200 miles on the car,
08:51SPEAKERso it's not like, you know.
08:54SPEAKER- It'd probably be fine.
08:56SPEAKER- Yeah, there's nothing on the batteries to date,
08:59SPEAKERso anyway.
09:00SPEAKER- This is basically just a change of house then.
09:02SPEAKER- Yeah, we wanted to go, well, I mean, we needed,
09:06SPEAKERwe normally would have taken a vacation in the summer,
09:07SPEAKERbut I just started a new job, so that was inconvenient.
09:10SPEAKERAnd my wife and daughter would like to be someplace else
09:14SPEAKERfor a while, which I think is fair.
09:16SPEAKER- Yeah, cannot blame you.
09:17SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm excited about it too, frankly.
09:19SPEAKER- Yeah, I do.
09:20SPEAKER- I spend a lot of time in this room.
09:22SPEAKER- I mean, it's--
09:23SPEAKER- A lot of time.
09:24SPEAKER- It's a pool, it is a pool, a swimming pool.
09:27SPEAKER- There's water that is accessible
09:29SPEAKERthat I can put my entire body into.
09:31SPEAKER- Get in there whenever you want.
09:32SPEAKER- Yep.
09:33SPEAKER- Then you could get out, and then you could get right back.
09:35SPEAKER- You just described like every Saturday
09:37SPEAKERfor the next month.
09:38SPEAKER- You could go to the pool like a dozen times a day
09:40SPEAKERif you wanted.
09:41SPEAKER- This is also the first time we've taken a road trip
09:43SPEAKERin like a long, like a multi-charge road trip
09:46SPEAKERin the electric car.
09:47SPEAKER- Oh, huh.
09:48SPEAKER- So, yeah.
09:50SPEAKER- It should be, how long is the drive, or how far?
09:52SPEAKER- Well, it's like an eight hour drive, but it's 10 hours
09:54SPEAKER'cause we have to charge twice, I think, probably.
09:56SPEAKER- Interesting.
09:57SPEAKER- Yeah, so it'll be interesting to see how that works.
10:00SPEAKER- Yeah, I would like to hear about that experience.
10:02SPEAKER- Well, we can talk about it a week after next.
10:04SPEAKER- Yeah, all right.
10:05SPEAKER- Well, what are we talking about today, Brad?
10:07SPEAKER- What are we talking about today?
10:09SPEAKER- This is kind of a grab bag episode, I guess,
10:11SPEAKERthis evolved out of some current events,
10:15SPEAKERand we are very loosely attempting to tie them all
10:17SPEAKERthrough the same theme of, I don't know,
10:20SPEAKERmarket disruption, market upheaval,
10:22SPEAKERevents going on in specific spaces
10:24SPEAKERthat are sort of shaking some things up.
10:26SPEAKER- Look, yeah, it's like we, okay,
10:29SPEAKERso we used to call this a potpourri episode,
10:31SPEAKERand then we were gonna stop
10:32SPEAKERbecause of some Jeopardy nonsense that's happened,
10:35SPEAKERand now that seems like it's cleared up,
10:36SPEAKERso maybe we can go back to calling it a potpourri episode.
10:39SPEAKER- I don't know the potpourri Jeopardy connection,
10:41SPEAKERand I don't know what that reference is.
10:43SPEAKERIs that a category?
10:45SPEAKER- Yeah, potpourri on Jeopardy is the category
10:48SPEAKERthat's like a little bit of everything.
10:49SPEAKER- Now I remember, I haven't watched Jeopardy
10:50SPEAKERin a very long time.
10:51SPEAKER- It's got some lavender, it's got a little bergamot.
10:53SPEAKER- Yeah.
10:54SPEAKER- Yeah, different smells.
10:56SPEAKER- That's, I don't know if that's like that intensely tied
10:59SPEAKERto Jeopardy that the word potpourri is poisoned now.
11:02SPEAKER- But what about potent potables?
11:04SPEAKER- That one definitely.
11:05SPEAKER- Okay, okay.
11:08SPEAKER- For sure.
11:09SPEAKER- Okay, so let's kick this off.
11:11SPEAKERYesterday, something that struck very close to home for me,
11:16SPEAKERmaybe day before yesterday now, I can't even remember,
11:18SPEAKERZuckerberg went on CBS this morning
11:21SPEAKERto showcase Facebook's metaverse.
11:24SPEAKER- Or the first phase of it.
11:27SPEAKERShould we, real quick, maybe just run down
11:28SPEAKERall the stuff we'll be covering here.
11:29SPEAKERWe're gonna talk about this Facebook metaverse nonsense.
11:32SPEAKER- Yes.
11:33SPEAKER- Really the header that I wrote in our show notes
11:36SPEAKERto describe it.
11:38SPEAKERTalk about stuff going on with Intel.
11:39SPEAKERThey've got these desktop GPUs coming
11:42SPEAKERthat actually sound like they might be worth something.
11:44SPEAKER- Well, yeah, they did architecture day this week,
11:46SPEAKERwhich is where they kind of showcase,
11:48SPEAKERhey, it's not like what's coming out
11:49SPEAKERin the next six months or a year.
11:51SPEAKERI mean, there's a little bit of that,
11:52SPEAKERbut it's also, here's what our five-year plan is
11:55SPEAKERbasically for CPUs and other silicon.
11:57SPEAKER- Yeah, so yeah, and hybrid stuff,
11:59SPEAKERhybrid design updates about their CPUs
12:01SPEAKERand then this OnlyFans situation.
12:06SPEAKER- So OnlyFans, the site for sexually explicit material
12:09SPEAKERon a pay-per-view basis is now banning
12:11SPEAKERsexually explicit materials, my understanding.
12:14SPEAKER- That is the case.
12:15SPEAKER- It sounds pretty straightforward when you put it that way,
12:17SPEAKERbut there's kind of a lot of interesting stuff
12:18SPEAKERto talk about.
12:19SPEAKER- Anyway, a lot of stuff going on in the news
12:21SPEAKERthat we just thought like, oh, these are big events
12:23SPEAKERin these respective spaces.
12:25SPEAKERSo let's maybe talk about them, go over them.
12:28SPEAKERAnd yeah, the Facebook stuff, like your tweets
12:31SPEAKERabout your experience building VR stuff
12:33SPEAKERsimilar to what Facebook is doing now
12:36SPEAKERare exactly why I wanted to talk about this.
12:37SPEAKER- Yeah, so the thing they announced is called Horizon,
12:41SPEAKERWorkrooms Horizon, and it's an Oculus Quest thing.
12:44SPEAKERAnd the basic idea is you get in a room
12:46SPEAKERwith everybody has their cartoon avatars on,
12:49SPEAKERyou run a desktop program on your computer,
12:51SPEAKERyou can put your screen up on a wall screen there.
12:54SPEAKERAnd it's like a fake conference room in VR
12:56SPEAKERthat you can have a conference with people.
12:57SPEAKERAnd you don't have to use the controllers,
12:59SPEAKERit just hand tracks using the front facing cameras
13:02SPEAKERon the Quest.
13:04SPEAKERIf you have a keyboard that it recognizes,
13:06SPEAKERit'll put your keyboard in,
13:08SPEAKERlike it treats the keyboard like a fiducial,
13:10SPEAKERso it can place it accurately in the 3D space
13:12SPEAKERinside the VR headset.
13:13SPEAKERSo you can look down and your hands will be
13:15SPEAKERin the right place when you put them on the,
13:17SPEAKERyour virtual hands and your physical hands will line up
13:19SPEAKERin the real world with the real keyboard.
13:21SPEAKER- I'm sorry, could you repeat, it treats it like a what?
13:23SPEAKER- Fiducial. - A fiducial?
13:25SPEAKER- A fiducial is a mark that is computer readable
13:28SPEAKERin an orientation and position.
13:31SPEAKERSo like a QR code is a kind of fiducial.
13:33SPEAKER- Okay.
13:34SPEAKER- If you ever saw the pictures of Valve's early VR rooms,
13:40SPEAKERthey had all these QR codes pasted on the walls
13:42SPEAKERall around the room and the cameras tracked the QR codes.
13:47SPEAKERThe AR camera for the 3DS.
13:49SPEAKER- Sure.
13:49SPEAKER- Remember that little thing you chuck down
13:50SPEAKERand then Mario would grow out of it?
13:52SPEAKER- Yeah. - That's a fiducial.
13:53SPEAKER- They're tracking points.
13:54SPEAKER- Tracking points.
13:55SPEAKER- Kind of like in motion capture and stuff like that
13:58SPEAKERor reference points, fixed reference points.
14:00SPEAKER- Exactly.
14:01SPEAKERSo in the early days of computer, of this kind of tracking,
14:05SPEAKERyou had to use some really specific, really blocky things
14:08SPEAKERthat were only, that were unique in every direction.
14:12SPEAKERNow because our computing and machine vision stuff
14:14SPEAKERhas gotten a lot better in the last five years,
14:17SPEAKERlike Facebook can recognize a handful of keyboards.
14:19SPEAKERSo like from the key layout and the positioning
14:23SPEAKERand like the colors and all that stuff,
14:25SPEAKERthey can pick it out and be like, okay, this is a keyboard.
14:27SPEAKERI know what it is.
14:28SPEAKERI know what its orientation is
14:30SPEAKERand I know where it is in the world.
14:31SPEAKER- That's legitimately kind of neat.
14:32SPEAKERAnd also it seems like they need to knock down
14:34SPEAKERas many barriers as they can.
14:36SPEAKER- Oh, that's a barrier.
14:38SPEAKERLike without, I'm gonna go and tell you,
14:40SPEAKERsomebody who's used a lot of VR with a headset on
14:42SPEAKERsitting in front of a computer,
14:43SPEAKERwithout being able to see where your keyboard
14:45SPEAKERis in the world, it's maddening.
14:47SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm sure, absolutely, I believe that.
14:49SPEAKERBut also just generally, I mean,
14:51SPEAKERI've done enough VR coverage in the game space and stuff
14:54SPEAKERto tell you, at least from my perspective,
14:57SPEAKERit's a big ask to ask,
14:58SPEAKERto get people to strap that headset on all the time,
15:00SPEAKERunless what you were offering them in there
15:02SPEAKERis incredibly compelling or useful.
15:04SPEAKERAnd I don't know that this meets that bar.
15:07SPEAKER- I mean, that was my, so, okay.
15:09SPEAKERSo full disclosure in 2015,
15:11SPEAKERI quit tested and started a company called Foo.
15:13SPEAKERWe started building basically software
15:16SPEAKERthat used the three data points or more,
15:18SPEAKERif you had them, to generate believable human avatars.
15:23SPEAKER- Yeah, not entirely dissimilar
15:25SPEAKERto what we're talking about here.
15:27SPEAKER- I mean, it was exactly what we're talking about here,
15:29SPEAKERwithout the desktop shit and the keyboard,
15:31SPEAKERjust to be clear.
15:32SPEAKER- Yeah, so I mean, that's your tweets,
15:34SPEAKERI mean, you touched on that.
15:36SPEAKERYou're a visionary, you saw what was coming.
15:39SPEAKER- There's so many self-described visionaries in the world
15:41SPEAKERwe don't need anymore, but I'll take it.
15:44SPEAKERI mean, so we started with,
15:49SPEAKERhey, maybe we could do conferencing.
15:51SPEAKERAnd then we looked at the number of headsets
15:52SPEAKERthat were likely to be in the world for the next five years.
15:54SPEAKERAnd we're like, no, we shouldn't do this.
15:55SPEAKERThis is, we will run out of money way before
15:58SPEAKERthere's enough people to pay money
15:59SPEAKERfor the thing that we're making.
16:01SPEAKERFacebook's not in a situation
16:02SPEAKERwhere they have to worry about the amount of money coming in.
16:03SPEAKERSo it's a different business for them.
16:05SPEAKERAnd also there's a lot more headsets now.
16:07SPEAKER- Yes, sure, do you have a sense of,
16:10SPEAKERI mean, this is a way bigger question
16:11SPEAKERand I don't know a ton about it,
16:12SPEAKERbut do you have a sense of what Facebook's prospects
16:17SPEAKERfor the future are like in terms of like,
16:19SPEAKERyou hear all the time,
16:20SPEAKERlike Facebook's user base is getting older.
16:23SPEAKERIt's like kind of the social media for old people.
16:25SPEAKERIt's not like young people are signing up
16:26SPEAKERfor Facebook accounts all the time.
16:27SPEAKERLike things go on in the ad space all the time.
16:31SPEAKER- They keep buying new networks
16:32SPEAKERthat are bringing in younger audiences.
16:34SPEAKERLike that's why they bought Instagram
16:35SPEAKER'cause it's cute, younger. - Sure, yeah, sure, sure.
16:37SPEAKERWell, I guess what I'm asking is are like they hedging
16:40SPEAKERagainst a potential future where what seems like
16:42SPEAKERthey're like bedrock pillars of revenue right now
16:45SPEAKERmaybe suddenly aren't as steady as they used to be?
16:47SPEAKER- Oh, yeah, absolutely.
16:49SPEAKERI mean, that's why they spent money on Oculus, right?
16:51SPEAKERThat's why they spent money
16:52SPEAKERon all of these emerging technologies.
16:54SPEAKERAnd that's why they're building hardware
16:56SPEAKERthat lets you talk to people.
16:57SPEAKERYou know, like that's why they have
16:58SPEAKERa video conferencing product.
17:00SPEAKERThat's why they do like, yeah,
17:04SPEAKERit's because their main business is the social network,
17:07SPEAKERunlike Google and Netflix and Microsoft and Amazon
17:12SPEAKERand all these other, like Amazon's main business
17:13SPEAKERis selling stuff on a store and selling servers
17:16SPEAKERto people who use stuff on the internet, right?
17:18SPEAKER- Right, so like that business is never going away.
17:20SPEAKER- You don't age out of buying groceries
17:21SPEAKERor buying toilet paper, right? - Exactly, exactly.
17:25SPEAKER- Facebook is unique in that situation.
17:28SPEAKERApple doesn't, Apple isn't worried
17:30SPEAKERabout people not buying phones anymore
17:32SPEAKERfor the foreseeable future at least.
17:34SPEAKER- Yes, yes.
17:35SPEAKER- So, okay, so it's a conference room.
17:38SPEAKERIt's like bad Zoom with no facial expressions.
17:41SPEAKERSo the thing I will say is having done,
17:45SPEAKERlike when we were at food,
17:46SPEAKERwe did a lot of our standups and meetings and stuff
17:47SPEAKERin the studio space that was very similar to this,
17:50SPEAKERmuch way rudimentary compared to what they're doing here.
17:52SPEAKERAnd it only ran on PC.
17:54SPEAKERBut even meeting with my engineer and my main artist,
17:58SPEAKERwe were meeting in the space.
17:58SPEAKERWe only had one avatar at the time.
18:00SPEAKERSo everybody was dressed up as me, right?
18:01SPEAKERAnd we looked just like me,
18:03SPEAKERbut they're all different heights.
18:05SPEAKER- Not just a visionary, you're also a megalomaniac.
18:08SPEAKER- Look, the avatars were unbelievably expensive to make,
18:10SPEAKERBrad, we couldn't afford to make some just for fun.
18:13SPEAKER- Oh man, the idea of the boss making everybody dress up
18:15SPEAKERlike him, it's like too sinister
18:20SPEAKERfor like bad cyberpunk fiction.
18:23SPEAKER- I'm like John Malkovich in a "Transformers" movie.
18:27SPEAKERBut so when I met my lead engineer for the first time,
18:30SPEAKERafter working with him for like a year and a half in person,
18:33SPEAKERmy brain knew him.
18:34SPEAKERLike this is the weird, cool thing,
18:36SPEAKERis because we were picking up enough body language,
18:38SPEAKERjust inferring how your shoulders
18:40SPEAKERare moving through your hands,
18:41SPEAKERare moving in the way your head's moving.
18:42SPEAKERLike my brain was like, oh, hey, I know you,
18:46SPEAKEReven though you usually look like me
18:47SPEAKERand have a lot of fewer resolution on your face.
18:50SPEAKERI know you, I know what you look like,
18:53SPEAKERI know how you move and I recognize that.
18:54SPEAKERAnd I was instantly comfortable with this person
18:56SPEAKERwho I'd literally never talked to in person before.
18:58SPEAKER- That's kind of amazing actually,
18:59SPEAKERlike she just picked up enough personal idiosyncrasies.
19:02SPEAKERThat's really cool.
19:04SPEAKER- Well, and so the other thing about it is
19:06SPEAKERyou gain all the kind of gestures and motions
19:11SPEAKERand things that we do when we're talking.
19:13SPEAKERLike on Zoom, I don't see anything
19:16SPEAKERbelow your chin basically, right?
19:18SPEAKERYour shoulders are in, but like your left hand,
19:20SPEAKERhow you're moving your left hand,
19:21SPEAKERif you're waving your left hand around like you wanna talk,
19:23SPEAKERI don't see that.
19:24SPEAKERYou don't see me moving my hands below the screen,
19:25SPEAKEReven though I'm going like this.
19:27SPEAKERAnd like even the stuff like the shoulder movements
19:29SPEAKERdoesn't translate as well into 2D space.
19:32SPEAKERSo you get that stuff as well if they do it right.
19:35SPEAKERSo like there is an argument
19:37SPEAKERthat it is a much more personal,
19:39SPEAKERmuch, you're much less likely to do things
19:41SPEAKERlike talk over each other
19:42SPEAKERand like kind of have sentences crash into each other.
19:45SPEAKERYou don't have to do stuff like mash the raise hand button
19:48SPEAKERand Zoom to let people know that you wanna talk,
19:50SPEAKERstuff like that.
19:52SPEAKERThe downside, okay, first off, this isn't the metaverse.
19:58SPEAKER- Right, which is, I think we need to address
20:00SPEAKERthat topic as well.
20:01SPEAKERSo we'll get there.
20:02SPEAKER- Well, so what is the metaverse?
20:04SPEAKERMetaverse came from a 1992 book
20:06SPEAKERby Neal Stephenson called "Snow Crash."
20:08SPEAKERIt's great, everybody should read it.
20:09SPEAKERIt's not at all timely or it's relevant.
20:12SPEAKERIt's not at all timely.
20:14SPEAKERLike the depiction of the metaverse in that book
20:16SPEAKERis laughable and ridiculous by today's standards,
20:18SPEAKERbut it's very fun.
20:19SPEAKER- Yeah.
20:21SPEAKER- The meta and metaverse means
20:23SPEAKERit's all of the systems talking to each other.
20:25SPEAKER- Okay, already that is the most concrete definition
20:29SPEAKERof the metaverse that I've heard from anyone.
20:32SPEAKER- Yeah, so do you remember in like 1995
20:34SPEAKERwhen Carmack was tweeting plan files about quaking,
20:37SPEAKERhe was like, yeah, you're gonna be able to open a portal
20:38SPEAKERin your quake server and go through
20:40SPEAKERand you'll go to Brad's quake server?
20:42SPEAKER- Yeah. - Yeah.
20:42SPEAKER- It's that. - It's that.
20:44SPEAKER- Read large.
20:45SPEAKER- But not just between Brad's quake server
20:47SPEAKERand my quake server, it's between my Fortnite server
20:50SPEAKERand your quake server and Facebook's horizon server
20:53SPEAKERand all this other things.
20:54SPEAKER- And your Roblox and every instance of everything
20:58SPEAKERon the internet, yes.
20:59SPEAKER- So Facebook is trying to build a tool set
21:02SPEAKERthat they're going to describe as the metaverse
21:04SPEAKERthat I would bet will live entirely
21:06SPEAKERwithin the confines of Facebook's servers.
21:09SPEAKER- Yes, that sounds a little limiting,
21:10SPEAKERbut yes, that does seem to be their MO.
21:13SPEAKER- Now, the cool actually kind of maybe
21:17SPEAKERa little metaverse-y way to do this
21:20SPEAKERis to just build an avatar infrastructure
21:25SPEAKERthat then you make open source and accessible
21:27SPEAKERto everybody else on the burgeoning metaverse.
21:30SPEAKERIt's like Gravatars for VR, for 3D.
21:34SPEAKER- Well, when you put it like that, it sounds stupid,
21:35SPEAKERbut yes.
21:36SPEAKER- I mean, my Gravatars still works to this day.
21:39SPEAKER- Can you change those?
21:41SPEAKERMine is, yeah.
21:42SPEAKER- I have no idea, actually.
21:43SPEAKERI have the same one that I set up in 2008.
21:45SPEAKERLet me even see.
21:46SPEAKER- Yeah, mine's been the same for like 15 years now
21:48SPEAKERand I can't change it.
21:49SPEAKER- Every once in a while, I will sign up for a new service
21:53SPEAKERand there it is.
21:55SPEAKER- Yeah. - After all those years,
21:57SPEAKERthere is that little Pac-Man grenade
21:59SPEAKERthat I set up so long ago.
22:00SPEAKER- Oh, that's your, okay, that makes sense.
22:03SPEAKER- So, oh, Gravatars is owned by Automattic, the WordPress.
22:06SPEAKER- Oh, huh, that'll come up later.
22:09SPEAKER- I don't know what Automattic is.
22:10SPEAKERI really don't, I'm not clear.
22:11SPEAKER- Automattic makes WordPress.
22:13SPEAKER- No, I know that.
22:13SPEAKERWell, I guess what I mean is,
22:14SPEAKERI don't know what to call WordPress.
22:16SPEAKERI don't know, is it a business?
22:17SPEAKERIs it a non-- - It's a CMS.
22:18SPEAKER- No, I know, but I mean like as an entity,
22:21SPEAKERit's not a corporation, is it?
22:23SPEAKERLike they don't have a standard like corporate revenue model
22:25SPEAKERis what I'm saying, I don't think.
22:26SPEAKER- Yeah, they do. - Do they?
22:27SPEAKER- Yeah, they sell, you can pay money to host WordPress.
22:31SPEAKER- Okay, you can also self-host for free?
22:34SPEAKER- Yeah, of course, it's an open source project.
22:35SPEAKER- Okay, okay.
22:36SPEAKER- Or maybe it's not open source, I don't remember.
22:38SPEAKER- It's a hybrid? - Yeah.
22:40SPEAKER- Sort of thing?
22:41SPEAKER- It's a services and software.
22:42SPEAKERAnd it's software as a service is what it is.
22:44SPEAKER- Okay.
22:45SPEAKER- Okay, but okay, so Metaverse.
22:46SPEAKERThe other thing that you should know about Metaverse
22:47SPEAKERis about six months ago, the venture capital community
22:51SPEAKERgot really excited about Metaverses.
22:53SPEAKERAnd as a result, if you take your deck from like
22:55SPEAKERtwo years ago and change whatever the hot word was then
22:58SPEAKERto Metaverse and pitch it around.
23:01SPEAKER- Find a place.
23:02SPEAKER- Yeah, you'll get a lot of money.
23:03SPEAKER- Oh my God, that's disgusting.
23:05SPEAKERThat is the real reason I wanted to bring this up
23:07SPEAKERand laugh about it because as much as I have asked
23:11SPEAKERover the last few months, like what the fuck
23:12SPEAKERis the Metaverse, the only conclusion I've really come to
23:15SPEAKERis it's whatever you can convince investors it is, right?
23:18SPEAKER- Yeah, if you're like, yo, I got, let's see,
23:22SPEAKERI've got a blockchain based social audio network
23:26SPEAKERthat is going to add Facebook's avatar support
23:29SPEAKERand I need to raise $20 million.
23:31SPEAKERProbably you get somebody to write a check for you there.
23:33SPEAKERMaybe not for 20 mil, but like you can get seed money
23:35SPEAKERfor sure.
23:36SPEAKER- But I mean, at some point the rubber has to meet
23:37SPEAKERthe road, right?
23:38SPEAKERLike you have to turn that money into, yeah,
23:41SPEAKERbut there's no more money then if you don't turn it
23:42SPEAKERinto something actionable, right?
23:44SPEAKER- That's a problem for people down the line.
23:47SPEAKERBy that point, the board will replace you
23:48SPEAKERand you'll still have your equity.
23:49SPEAKER- I guess, yeah, okay, that's fair. (laughs)
23:54SPEAKERYeah, like we are way past the point in this process
23:57SPEAKERwhere like every company now has said like,
23:59SPEAKERwell, what's our Metaverse solution, right?
24:01SPEAKERLike what's our Metaverse plan, right?
24:02SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, and realistically, like to the people
24:06SPEAKERwho are thinking about this in a real way
24:07SPEAKERare like Tim Sweeney and Mike Abrash
24:09SPEAKERand John Carmack probably.
24:11SPEAKERAnd then also a bunch of people that are working
24:13SPEAKERon like OpenXR, which is an open web-like framework
24:18SPEAKERfor VR, AR, MR stuff.
24:23SPEAKERI think in my, like VRML sprung out
24:28SPEAKERof the original Metaverse conversations, right?
24:31SPEAKER- Oh, wow, what, you're talking 90s VRML?
24:33SPEAKER- Yeah, 90s VRML. - Oh my God,
24:35SPEAKERI haven't thought about that.
24:35SPEAKER- We've been doing this.
24:36SPEAKERThis is the second or third wave of Metaverse talk.
24:39SPEAKER- Yeah.
24:41SPEAKER- So the thing is, the idea of the Metaverse
24:45SPEAKERis inherently antithetical to the way walled gardens
24:51SPEAKERhave worked for the last 15 years on mobile.
24:54SPEAKERA lot of VCs are treating it like mobile,
24:56SPEAKERlike the next iteration from the personal computer
24:59SPEAKERto the mobile, to the this, when in reality,
25:03SPEAKERwhat they're talking about is maybe an interoperability
25:07SPEAKERlayer between different services and platforms
25:10SPEAKERis the worst case, but the best case is that we actually
25:13SPEAKERare like, yo, maybe apps are bad and we should go back
25:15SPEAKERto building stuff on open frameworks instead.
25:17SPEAKER- Yeah.
25:19SPEAKER- Which is the way I would like the pendulum to go.
25:21SPEAKERI don't know if it actually will.
25:23SPEAKEROh, also one more thing, two more things actually.
25:27SPEAKEROne is that VR stuff has major accessibility issues,
25:31SPEAKERespecially on mobile.
25:32SPEAKERFacebook's headsets especially are because they're mobile,
25:36SPEAKERthey run at a lower frame rate.
25:37SPEAKERMore people have motion sickness issues with them.
25:40SPEAKERThe latest data is that somewhere at least 5%
25:43SPEAKERand probably no more than 10% of people
25:46SPEAKERare just, their brains are incompatible with VR.
25:49SPEAKER- Oh, wow.
25:49SPEAKER- And it tends to skew more towards women than men
25:52SPEAKERbecause of the way women perceive depth,
25:56SPEAKERbecause estrogen brains perceive depth differently
26:00SPEAKERthan androgen brains is my understanding.
26:03SPEAKERIt has to do with shading versus parallax.
26:07SPEAKERAlso the science on that is kind of unclear,
26:09SPEAKERso don't at me.
26:11SPEAKER- Green of salt.
26:13SPEAKER- The, rephrase, the data on number of people
26:17SPEAKERwho get motion sick is pretty solid.
26:20SPEAKERThe data on why that happens is entirely speculative.
26:23SPEAKERIt was mostly speculative at this point.
26:25SPEAKER- I see, I see.
26:26SPEAKER- Also disabled people have a major problem.
26:29SPEAKERWell, many disabled people have problems using VR stuff
26:32SPEAKERdepending on what the nature of their disability is.
26:35SPEAKERSo that's a major concern.
26:37SPEAKERSo Facebook has been using this internally for conferences.
26:40SPEAKERI don't think, I would not want to work at a company
26:44SPEAKERwhere we require Facebook horizon conferencing
26:49SPEAKERbecause it's shitty for women and disabled people
26:52SPEAKERand people that get motion sick.
26:53SPEAKER- Right, and it's just a hassle for everyone.
26:56SPEAKERThat's again, again, even without these health issues,
26:59SPEAKERwithout accessibility issues,
27:00SPEAKERif VR was perfect for everyone,
27:02SPEAKERit's still a big ask to strap yourself
27:04SPEAKERinto what is basically a sensory deprivation chamber.
27:07SPEAKERThe trade-off of shutting yourself off
27:09SPEAKERfrom your immediate surroundings
27:10SPEAKERhas got to be pretty good, right?
27:12SPEAKERLike the thing you were asking people to do that
27:14SPEAKERin order to gain has to be amazing
27:17SPEAKERand not much of this stuff is amazing yet.
27:19SPEAKER- And then the other thing,
27:22SPEAKERthe other thing on the accessibility side is also,
27:24SPEAKERif you have a large head,
27:26SPEAKERFacebook headsets don't really work for you.
27:28SPEAKERLike my head is at the high end of upper limit
27:31SPEAKERof what you can wear on an Oculus headset generally.
27:35SPEAKERSo, and by the way, Facebook announced this thing
27:39SPEAKERon the news morning news,
27:41SPEAKERinstead of like doing an ad campaign or something,
27:44SPEAKERbecause coincidentally the same day the FTC announced
27:46SPEAKERthat they were reopening the antitrust investigation
27:49SPEAKERinto Facebook, real weird sequence of events there kind of.
27:53SPEAKER- Couldn't possibly be related at all.
27:58SPEAKERYeah, that was also a part of why I was asking
28:00SPEAKERif this is just Zuckerberg's pet like metaverse strategy
28:04SPEAKERor if there might be other goals being served here.
28:08SPEAKER- Hey, we need to get some news in the cues
28:11SPEAKERso that we drown out this antitrust business.
28:14SPEAKERWhat do we got?
28:15SPEAKER- Weird, how that happens.
28:17SPEAKERAll right, can we declare the metaverse dumb
28:20SPEAKERuntil further notice?
28:22SPEAKERUntil somebody comes up with something better.
28:24SPEAKER- I just don't, I think we're,
28:26SPEAKERI don't think we're any closer to the metaverse
28:28SPEAKERthan we were two years ago right now.
28:30SPEAKER(upbeat music)
28:37SPEAKEROkay, Intel's architecture day had some interesting stuff.
28:40SPEAKER- Yeah, big dot little, are we pronouncing the dot?
28:43SPEAKER- I was gonna say big, big little.
28:45SPEAKER- Big little.
28:46SPEAKER- Big little.
28:47SPEAKER- Big little.
28:47SPEAKER- Big little.
28:48SPEAKER- Big, big little.
28:51SPEAKER- Big little performance course.
28:53SPEAKER- Yeah, so this is their new architecture stuff.
28:57SPEAKERSo architecture day, like I said,
28:58SPEAKERis when they hit the long-term plans
28:59SPEAKERwith a little bit of near-term.
29:01SPEAKERAnd we don't need to talk too much
29:03SPEAKERabout the architecture stuff,
29:04SPEAKERexcept to say it looks like they're gonna move
29:07SPEAKERlong, long-term to a chiplet-type architecture
29:10SPEAKERlike AMD's been using,
29:11SPEAKERwhere they build multiple, multiple,
29:13SPEAKERmultiple chiplets are put on each core, on each CPU,
29:17SPEAKERand then they're connected with high-speed interconnects.
29:19SPEAKER- Right, like a discrete controller in there.
29:22SPEAKER- Exactly.
29:23SPEAKER- And that's not, that's not these new ones.
29:25SPEAKERI'm sorry, that's not these,
29:26SPEAKERlike the Alder Lake, like the very short-term products
29:29SPEAKERare still the more traditional single package, right?
29:32SPEAKER- Yeah, the Alder Lake and the next one after that,
29:34SPEAKERwhich I don't remember what it is,
29:35SPEAKERis are both more monolithic die designs.
29:39SPEAKERThe chiplets will come after that,
29:41SPEAKERwhich is like 2024, I think, or '23.
29:43SPEAKER- Okay, okay.
29:45SPEAKER- But the big little architecture is neat
29:46SPEAKERbecause they're taking cues from the SOCs,
29:49SPEAKERthe work that ARM has done and Apple,
29:51SPEAKERApple and Qualcomm and all those folks
29:53SPEAKERare doing with ARM SOCs.
29:54SPEAKERAnd I'm like, this is the second try for this.
29:58SPEAKERThey did this with Lakefield a few years ago
30:01SPEAKERwhere they had basically a high-power core
30:03SPEAKERand low-power cores in the same die.
30:06SPEAKERAnd the idea is that the low-power cores
30:08SPEAKERdo the stuff that's kind of always running
30:10SPEAKERlike background tasks, keeping the OS going,
30:12SPEAKERyour stuff that runs in your system tray,
30:14SPEAKERthat kind of stuff.
30:15SPEAKERAnd then the high-power cores are dedicated
30:18SPEAKERto the foreground processes, like games and browsers
30:21SPEAKERand video and stuff like that.
30:22SPEAKER- Heavy compute stuff, yeah.
30:25SPEAKER- Yeah, it's like the Lakefield was kind of a failure,
30:28SPEAKERbut the assumption is that that's because of the ratio
30:32SPEAKERof big cores to little cores.
30:35SPEAKERI think Lakefield was one big core to four little cores.
30:38SPEAKER- Right.
30:39SPEAKER- And then also there's some understanding
30:41SPEAKERthat Windows 10 maybe wasn't ready
30:43SPEAKERto take advantage of that.
30:45SPEAKERWindows 10 for x86 wasn't.
30:47SPEAKERAnd that this is one of the reasons
30:49SPEAKERthat we're moving to Windows 11.
30:51SPEAKER- Interesting.
30:52SPEAKER- Like more explicit support for this type of architecture.
30:58SPEAKER- So we're talking about like some of these newer chips
31:01SPEAKERdown the line are more kind of one-to-one, right?
31:03SPEAKERWith the performance to low-power cores,
31:06SPEAKERlike eight of each from the sound of it.
31:09SPEAKER- Yeah, it seems like it'll be between four
31:13SPEAKERto eight little cores and six to eight big cores.
31:16SPEAKER- Yeah, so I got kind of excited reading about this
31:19SPEAKERbecause like power consumption in CPUs
31:20SPEAKERhas become kind of a concern of mine as,
31:23SPEAKERI mean, not that it's the only consideration,
31:25SPEAKERbut as PG&E continues to hike rates,
31:29SPEAKERlike how long my computer is on every day is a concern,
31:32SPEAKERhow much gas it's guzzling essentially.
31:35SPEAKER- Your computer, especially since the CPU is a little older,
31:39SPEAKERyour performance per watt is probably pretty bad.
31:41SPEAKER- It's not amazing, you're right.
31:43SPEAKERBut so yeah, so again, I got pretty excited,
31:46SPEAKERlike, oh, you could potentially like let your PC idle
31:49SPEAKERand use way less power,
31:50SPEAKERbut then I started looking and it's not like the big cores
31:54SPEAKERare getting any more efficient here.
31:55SPEAKERIt sounds like they are just as gas guzzling
31:57SPEAKERas the previous several Intel chips have been,
31:59SPEAKERwhich have been awful in that regard.
32:02SPEAKER- Yeah, so the assumption here is that
32:03SPEAKERthis is still on 10 nanometer,
32:04SPEAKERat least for the stuff that comes out next year.
32:07SPEAKERAnd the Intel seven nanometer fab in Arizona
32:10SPEAKERdoesn't come online until like 2024 is my understanding.
32:12SPEAKER- Oh, wow.
32:13SPEAKER- So, and I don't think Intel's ever built mainline CPUs
32:18SPEAKERon anybody else's foundries.
32:20SPEAKERSo, there's a lot of questions.
32:26SPEAKERI think like the interesting thing is
32:29SPEAKERthey're gonna be positioning 16 core Alder Lake S's
32:32SPEAKERwith like eight big cores and eight little cores.
32:38SPEAKERAnd they're gonna be like right now, thread rippers,
32:40SPEAKEReven not thread rippers, even just rise in like 59 hundreds
32:43SPEAKERare 16 core CPUs where they're all big cores essentially.
32:46SPEAKER- Right.
32:47SPEAKER- 12 cores rather, sorry.
32:49SPEAKER- And with better performance per watt
32:51SPEAKERthan the current Intel stuff.
32:52SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't think they talked about,
32:56SPEAKERsome of the stuff is also based on rumors,
32:58SPEAKERwe should be clear,
32:59SPEAKERbut it's rumors that came out
33:00SPEAKERaround the time of architecture day,
33:02SPEAKERprobably when analysts were getting NDA briefings.
33:05SPEAKERSo, pretty good rumors I would say.
33:10SPEAKER- Sure.
33:15SPEAKER- I was gonna say the interesting thing
33:16SPEAKERis that AMD has been living under the TDP these days
33:19SPEAKERand Intel is the TDP at main operation.
33:21SPEAKERWhen it goes into turbo boost,
33:22SPEAKERit'll go above by 50 or 60 watts.
33:24SPEAKER- You mean, you're talking about
33:25SPEAKERhow they quote the numbers to the public?
33:27SPEAKER- The number of watts consumed for AMD
33:29SPEAKERis pretty much the maximum
33:30SPEAKERunless you do something like overclock.
33:32SPEAKER- Right.
33:33SPEAKER- Whereas with Intel, it's like the baseline
33:35SPEAKERthat it can go up another 50 or 75 watts under turbo boost.
33:39SPEAKER- Like this R story is talking about current Intel chips,
33:43SPEAKERwhich again, like these big little iterations
33:46SPEAKERare gonna be using similar architecture,
33:48SPEAKERhaving like a stated TDP of 125,
33:51SPEAKERbut boosting up to like 200 at load,
33:54SPEAKERwhich sounds completely insane.
33:56SPEAKER- That's pretty high.
33:58SPEAKERWell, I mean, it's only an eighth
34:01SPEAKERof what comes out of your wall.
34:02SPEAKER- Yeah, but that's still.
34:06SPEAKER- So, these will be the 12 series chips when they come out.
34:11SPEAKERSo not the 11 series that's out now,
34:14SPEAKERthat kind of is like a pass probably,
34:16SPEAKEReven if you have a 10 series or a nine series.
34:19SPEAKERSo we'll see what happens when they actually ship silicon
34:22SPEAKERto reviewers and stuff in a few months, presumably.
34:24SPEAKER- I mean, sticking with the theme of shakeups,
34:26SPEAKERlike Intel itself has had a pretty big shakeup
34:28SPEAKERin the leadership there, right?
34:30SPEAKERI'm sure a company like this takes years
34:32SPEAKERto re-center, recalibrate after new leadership comes in
34:36SPEAKERand a new course is set.
34:38SPEAKER- Yeah, the R&D that goes into these chips,
34:40SPEAKERit's like a five-year pipeline
34:41SPEAKERfrom like where they're starting.
34:43SPEAKERSo the chips that are coming out next year
34:45SPEAKERstarted work in 2017, 2018, probably.
34:52SPEAKERAnd in reality, the designs that those chips are based on
34:55SPEAKERstarted another five or 10 years before that.
34:57SPEAKERSo it's complicated, I guess.
35:00SPEAKER- It seems like they do have a roadmap to modernize though.
35:03SPEAKER- Yeah, and I mean, a lot of this is happening too
35:05SPEAKERbecause we're reaching the end of the process line.
35:08SPEAKERWe've been talking about this for a long term,
35:10SPEAKERbut the process technology,
35:12SPEAKERwhich is basically the size of the transistors on each chip
35:18SPEAKERhas been getting smaller and smaller and smaller
35:19SPEAKERsince the '60s.
35:20SPEAKERWe're reaching the end of what we can do
35:22SPEAKERwith that technology, how much smaller we can make them.
35:25SPEAKERThe benefit for getting smaller is mainly
35:27SPEAKERthat the gates use less power to trip,
35:29SPEAKERwhich means you use less power to do the computing,
35:32SPEAKERwhich means you can do more computing per watt,
35:34SPEAKERwhich means you can pump more energy in there,
35:37SPEAKERget more computing out of it and generate less heat.
35:40SPEAKERWhen you stop losing, like that process size advancement
35:44SPEAKERhas driven a lot of what Intel did over the last 50 years.
35:47SPEAKERAnd that was their competitive advantage over AMD
35:50SPEAKERand the ARM vendors and everybody for a long, long time.
35:54SPEAKERAnd that's going away.
35:55SPEAKERSo they're like seeing how they adjust
35:58SPEAKERin this time of turmoil is really interesting.
36:01SPEAKERAnd the fact that, I mean,
36:02SPEAKEReverybody said they were gonna go for chiplets.
36:03SPEAKERThey call them tiles.
36:07SPEAKERI mean, it's a major difference.
36:08SPEAKER- Chiplet is such a fun word though.
36:10SPEAKER- I like saying chiplet, yeah.
36:13SPEAKERBut yeah, the upshot is they're gonna go
36:16SPEAKERwith the same thing that AMD has been doing
36:17SPEAKERfor the last couple of generations.
36:20SPEAKERAnd it seems like the path forward
36:23SPEAKERfor the next little bit, at least.
36:24SPEAKER- To be clear, when you say we are hitting
36:26SPEAKERthe end of process shrinks,
36:28SPEAKERI mean, you're talking a physical end, right?
36:30SPEAKERA physical limitation on how much smaller we can get,
36:32SPEAKERkind of similar to how we hit the frequency ceiling
36:35SPEAKERon silicon.
36:37SPEAKER- Well, the frequency ceiling is different,
36:39SPEAKERbut basically we started out using lasers
36:45SPEAKERand now we've gone down to x-rays
36:47SPEAKERand we've run out of electromagnetic spectrum
36:49SPEAKERto make the lanes on the chip smaller.
36:52SPEAKERSo they're doing different things
36:53SPEAKERlike making the gates narrower
36:55SPEAKERand turning them sideways and all sorts of weird stuff.
36:57SPEAKER- Yeah, all I mean with, when I say frequency ceiling,
36:59SPEAKERwhat I mean is like CPUs used to get faster
37:03SPEAKERjust by the clock rate increasing.
37:04SPEAKERIt's like, oh, I have a 75 megahertz chip.
37:07SPEAKEROh, now I have a hundred megahertz chip.
37:08SPEAKERNow I have a 200.
37:09SPEAKERNow I have a gigahertz, holy crap.
37:11SPEAKERBut what was it?
37:13SPEAKERProbably somewhere between three and five gigahertz,
37:16SPEAKERdepending on your cooling and your overclocking
37:17SPEAKERis about, we found as high as we could possibly go
37:20SPEAKERwith the current materials.
37:21SPEAKER- Well, it's not as high as we can go.
37:23SPEAKERIt's as high as you want to go for a multitude of reasons.
37:25SPEAKERYeah, but all of those,
37:29SPEAKERlike the difference between a Pentium 75 and a Pentium 100
37:32SPEAKERor a Pentium, probably a Pentium 100 and a Pentium 200,
37:35SPEAKERI don't have to look, was process,
37:37SPEAKERwas more or less like they went to 32 bit,
37:40SPEAKERI think on the Pentium twos and added like SSC two
37:44SPEAKERand stuff like that.
37:45SPEAKERBut also there was a die shrink in there too.
37:48SPEAKER- Okay.
37:49SPEAKER- That meant, hey, we can do more clock cycles
37:52SPEAKERbecause we have lower power requirements
37:54SPEAKERso we can generate more heat now.
37:55SPEAKER- So in both cases though, those have become dead ends
37:58SPEAKERfor further speeding up processors, right?
38:00SPEAKERLike with the clock speed and process size
38:03SPEAKERor have kind of plateaued.
38:04SPEAKER- The process side informs the clock speed
38:06SPEAKERis what I'm saying.
38:07SPEAKER- Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Like these things
38:08SPEAKERare all related.
38:09SPEAKER- Yeah, I know. - Yeah.
38:09SPEAKER- I'm just saying like you won't,
38:10SPEAKERyou're not gonna see these continuing to.
38:13SPEAKER- Yeah, no, we're not gonna get to,
38:15SPEAKERlike we're not gonna go from seven,
38:17SPEAKERokay, people are talking about Angstrom scale.
38:19SPEAKERI don't know if it's real or not.
38:20SPEAKERIt's you get into some real fuzzy math
38:22SPEAKERand some physics stuff that I don't understand.
38:24SPEAKER- Yeah, and I see people saying like,
38:26SPEAKERoh, TSMC has multiple seven nanometer processes
38:29SPEAKERthat are different, even though they're the same size
38:31SPEAKERand that's a very arcane world that I barely understand,
38:35SPEAKERbut it does sound like we're not,
38:37SPEAKERyou're not gonna see like one nanometer anytime soon
38:39SPEAKERor anything like that.
38:40SPEAKER- No, and there's also a big difference
38:42SPEAKERbetween like a seven nanometer process for memory
38:46SPEAKERand a seven nanometer.
38:48SPEAKERThe way you build the foundries for memory
38:51SPEAKERand like compute silicon are different, right?
38:54SPEAKERLike they have different characteristics
38:55SPEAKERand different requirements and different sensitivities.
38:58SPEAKERSo yeah, anyway, that's it.
38:59SPEAKERThat's the CPU side.
39:00SPEAKERShould we go and bump over to the GPUs
39:02SPEAKERwhile we're talking about Intel?
39:03SPEAKER- Yes, that actually seems like the big deal here
39:05SPEAKERis that Intel finally, I mean, it's been rumored for a while.
39:08SPEAKERThey had, what was it called?
39:09SPEAKERThe DG1, was that the code name for that desktop part
39:12SPEAKERthat we talked about like a year ago?
39:13SPEAKER- They announced a low power XELP is I think
39:16SPEAKERwhat the tech name is for it.
39:19SPEAKER- Yeah, but now they've got, they've fully announced,
39:22SPEAKERIntel Arc is the actual name that they're going with,
39:25SPEAKERthe marketing name, but they've got their own line
39:27SPEAKERof proper desktop GPUs coming finally,
39:29SPEAKERwhich like immediately my first question to you
39:32SPEAKERas someone who has worked in the tech press for ages,
39:35SPEAKERlike, has this been an ongoing thing for a long time?
39:37SPEAKERLike was there kind of always an Intel line of GPUs
39:40SPEAKERrumored to be around the corner?
39:43SPEAKER- There have been rumors about Intel G.
39:45SPEAKERSo Intel killed the I series,
39:49SPEAKERthey weren't even GPUs back then,
39:50SPEAKERwhich was video cards in like 2000, maybe 99 or 98.
39:54SPEAKERIt was like before, before I worked at Maximum PC.
39:57SPEAKERFrom that moment on there were always rumors
39:59SPEAKERabout Intel making new GPUs.
40:01SPEAKERI mean, mainly because they're already making,
40:02SPEAKERthey've been making GPUs this whole time
40:03SPEAKERthat go in the integrated chip sets.
40:05SPEAKERLike those are still graphics cards.
40:07SPEAKERThey're shitty and underpowered
40:09SPEAKERand they're built on the same process size as the GPU,
40:12SPEAKERas the CPU, but they count kind of.
40:17SPEAKERThen there was Larrabee, which was the,
40:19SPEAKERthey're like, had they kept going on Larrabee,
40:22SPEAKERthe way the machine learning stuff worked out,
40:23SPEAKERthey probably would have been in a spectacular place,
40:25SPEAKERbut it was like a real, basically their whole idea
40:28SPEAKERwas we're making a massively parallel x86
40:34SPEAKERprocessor for use in graphics.
40:36SPEAKERSo instead of having to do like,
40:38SPEAKERinstead of using these low power, really low power,
40:40SPEAKERyou'd have like mid power, massively parallel CPUs or GPUs.
40:46SPEAKERI don't know, it's interesting.
40:47SPEAKERSo Arc is,
40:51SPEAKERit looks real.
40:53SPEAKERI don't know what they released.
40:53SPEAKERWho knows, they announced it, yeah.
40:56SPEAKER- They put out a very slick video of them talking about it.
40:58SPEAKERI hope it's real.
41:00SPEAKER- I don't think they've gotten this far
41:03SPEAKERthat they were actually talking about a GPU in public
41:06SPEAKERbefore and then killed it.
41:08SPEAKERUsually they like told us it was coming
41:10SPEAKERand then killed it without it actually announcing
41:12SPEAKERnames and stuff.
41:13SPEAKERSo I think giving it a name, it's like, yeah,
41:16SPEAKERyou don't want to name something you're going to kill.
41:18SPEAKER- Right, yes.
41:19SPEAKER- So it's a full DX 12 feature set, ultimate,
41:22SPEAKERDX 12 ultimate feature set.
41:23SPEAKERSo ray tracing mesh shaders, sampler feedback,
41:25SPEAKERvariable rate shading, the whole thing.
41:28SPEAKERThey have a neural net driven upscaling,
41:31SPEAKERAKA DLSS type upscaling feature.
41:35SPEAKER- How are we saying this, XESS?
41:37SPEAKER- XESS is how it was pronounced during the,
41:40SPEAKERI went to the video and watched the video
41:42SPEAKERuntil I could find somebody saying it.
41:44SPEAKERSo I would know.
41:45SPEAKER- Okay.
41:46SPEAKER- I want it to be excess.
41:47SPEAKER- Yes.
41:48SPEAKER(laughing)
41:50SPEAKER- And that is an L driven like DLSS unlike the,
41:53SPEAKERwhat's AMD's fidelity FX, which is not.
41:56SPEAKER- Yeah, the fidelity FX thing, as I understand it,
41:59SPEAKERis basically is based on an upcoming
42:02SPEAKERor maybe existing now DirectX thing, but I could be wrong.
42:05SPEAKER- Yeah, and that seems to have been a pretty big whiff.
42:08SPEAKER- I don't, so the version of it they launched with
42:11SPEAKERdidn't support machine learning,
42:13SPEAKERwhich is underwhelming and also nobody supported it.
42:17SPEAKERIt's going to be the same as what's in the consoles.
42:19SPEAKERSo when that stuff comes to consoles,
42:21SPEAKERit'll come to the AMD stuff pretty much immediately.
42:25SPEAKER- Sure.
42:27SPEAKER- Basically the interesting thing about this
42:29SPEAKERis they're throwing out all of the old stuff
42:31SPEAKERthat they were doing in the integrated chips.
42:34SPEAKERThey announced multiple years of products
42:36SPEAKERand they're structured much closer to say
42:40SPEAKERthe way Ampere is structured internally,
42:44SPEAKERwhere there's these cores that they call XE cores,
42:49SPEAKERthat have vector engines and matrix math engines
42:54SPEAKERthat then attach to L1 caches
42:55SPEAKERthat then attach to like ray tracing units and samplers
43:01SPEAKERand all the things that let them talk to each other.
43:03SPEAKERAnd then those connect to L2 caches and schedulers
43:06SPEAKERand all that to make them all work together.
43:08SPEAKERAnd you can modularly scale them up from like,
43:11SPEAKERI think one or two of these all the way up to eight.
43:14SPEAKERSo like theoretically, the vector math,
43:19SPEAKERwhich is what you use for games mostly
43:20SPEAKERand shaders and stuff like that is equivalent to Ampere.
43:23SPEAKERIt looks like it's all going to be clock dependent
43:26SPEAKERand memory dependent of course.
43:28SPEAKERBut like on paper, in terms of like raw width,
43:32SPEAKERthat's equivalent.
43:33SPEAKERAnd then on the matrix side,
43:34SPEAKERwhich is where all the machine learning stuff happens,
43:36SPEAKERor a lot of the machine learning stuff happens,
43:39SPEAKERit seems like they're going way, way wider.
43:42SPEAKERThey're going to be able to do more math
43:44SPEAKERthan the Ampere cores will.
43:46SPEAKER- That's kind of shocking to hear.
43:48SPEAKER- Well, it's Intel.
43:50SPEAKERSo think about what their businesses are.
43:52SPEAKER- Okay, fair.
43:53SPEAKER- Hey, we sell stuff to consumers,
43:54SPEAKERbut we also sell stuff into data centers
43:56SPEAKERand guess who loves machine learning?
43:57SPEAKER- That's fair.
43:58SPEAKER- Yeah.
43:59SPEAKER- I mean, I guess everybody loves machine learning these days
44:01SPEAKERbut yes, you're not wrong.
44:02SPEAKERIt just feels like, yeah, but like you say,
44:04SPEAKERhey, they have not announced like clock speeds
44:07SPEAKERand memory bandwidth and stuff like that.
44:08SPEAKERSo we don't know exactly how fast this stuff is,
44:10SPEAKERbut it does seem remarkably feature complete on paper.
44:13SPEAKER- Yeah, I think so.
44:14SPEAKERI think that's fair.
44:15SPEAKER- I was not expecting to see an effort
44:17SPEAKERthis immense from them, I guess.
44:20SPEAKER- So, I mean, I don't have any inside information here.
44:25SPEAKERMy theory has always been that Intel has multiple,
44:29SPEAKERhas multiple teams working on this stuff at the same time.
44:31SPEAKERThey have the, hey, here's our fallback.
44:34SPEAKERWe're going to continue improving
44:35SPEAKERon the existing integrated stuff.
44:38SPEAKERAnd then I think my guess is that they've had multiple teams
44:42SPEAKERthat haven't been able to keep up with what Intel
44:44SPEAKERand Nvidia and AMD are doing.
44:46SPEAKERSo they get to the point that they're about
44:49SPEAKERto launch something and then Nvidia announces
44:52SPEAKERthe next gen thing and then they shit can that
44:55SPEAKERand start over again.
44:58SPEAKERNow this isn't coming out until early next year,
45:01SPEAKERat which point the 3080 cards while supply limited
45:04SPEAKERwill be a year old.
45:06SPEAKERSo it's entirely possible that this is going to come out
45:08SPEAKERaround the time that Nvidia releases a new card
45:11SPEAKERand these are immediately last gen perf.
45:13SPEAKER- Fair.
45:17SPEAKER- I don't like, I don't know, we'll see.
45:20SPEAKER- I mean, to be fair, if they can get into the ballpark
45:22SPEAKERof the current Ampere cards in terms of performance,
45:25SPEAKERthat's not exactly a bad thing.
45:27SPEAKERYes, it will not be bleeding edge
45:29SPEAKERcompared to whatever Nvidia has,
45:30SPEAKERbut like as supply constrained as the market is right now,
45:33SPEAKERI think even a good enough part from a third vendor
45:35SPEAKERis a pretty big deal, right?
45:36SPEAKERLike just getting more supply of anything
45:39SPEAKERthat is adequate out there.
45:40SPEAKERIt seems like it would really alleviate
45:41SPEAKERa lot of those problems.
45:42SPEAKER- Hell, they're making them in the same foundry
45:45SPEAKERthat Nvidia makes their cards probably.
45:48SPEAKER- That's a good point actually.
45:49SPEAKERIt's kind of zero sum in terms of supply, right?
45:52SPEAKER- Maybe it depends on what's the limit.
45:54SPEAKERBut I mean, yeah, I think it's always good
45:56SPEAKERto have more people doing things.
45:58SPEAKERThey're doing some actually really interesting stuff
45:59SPEAKERwith the upscaling tech, which we should talk about.
46:02SPEAKERBut I think even if they bomb in the consumer market
46:07SPEAKERfor video cards, if they're appreciably faster
46:10SPEAKERat the machine learning math, the matrix math
46:12SPEAKERfor data center and research and workstations,
46:17SPEAKERI think that's probably a win for Intel
46:21SPEAKERand they can afford to iterate until they get to the point
46:24SPEAKERthat they're releasing on the same cadence as Nvidia and AMD.
46:27SPEAKER- Sure.
46:28SPEAKERAnd then does this seem scalable enough
46:30SPEAKERthat it could scale down to the,
46:32SPEAKERI mean, could this become the basis
46:34SPEAKERof the new integrated GPUs in the CPU line?
46:37SPEAKER- So, I mean, it already kind of is,
46:39SPEAKER'cause I think the XELP,
46:40SPEAKERwhich is I think the low power variant
46:42SPEAKERis in the 11th gen cores, but it's on a different process.
46:46SPEAKERSo this is a seven nanometer process.
46:48SPEAKERThose CPUs are 10 nanometer
46:52SPEAKERand it seems like a kind of a janky 10 nanometer
46:54SPEAKERin a lot of cases.
46:55SPEAKERI haven't paid a lot of attention to that.
47:00SPEAKERThe thing about when this,
47:03SPEAKERthis is a GPU that is made to be a chiplet SOC GPU,
47:08SPEAKERif that makes sense.
47:09SPEAKERSo in the future, maybe not chiplet, maybe not SOC,
47:12SPEAKERbut like imagine four years from now
47:15SPEAKERwe're doing chiplet Intel CPUs,
47:17SPEAKERyou have a bunch of low powered chiplets,
47:19SPEAKERyou have a couple of high powered chiplets.
47:21SPEAKER- Excuse me, I think you--
47:22SPEAKER- GPU chiplet with like two of these cores on it.
47:24SPEAKER- I think you mean tiles.
47:25SPEAKER- Sorry, tile, my bad.
47:27SPEAKER- Can we stay on brand please?
47:29SPEAKER- No, we can, speaking of staying on brand,
47:31SPEAKERmy favorite game to play in these
47:32SPEAKERis when another vendor is talking about
47:34SPEAKERa machine learning super sampling
47:37SPEAKERand they're trying not to say, you know,
47:38SPEAKERlike DLSS the entire time.
47:40SPEAKER- Yeah, so there's a common reference point.
47:44SPEAKER- So the XeSS, which is their upscaling thing is neat.
47:47SPEAKERIt seems neat, very comparable to DLSS,
47:52SPEAKERshould take advantage of the extra matrix math, yada yada.
47:56SPEAKERThey have a video that looked pretty good,
47:57SPEAKERbut I'm always a little skeptical of those
47:59SPEAKER'cause you know, I don't think they're cooked,
48:01SPEAKERbut it's easy to pick the part
48:02SPEAKERthat makes it look real good.
48:03SPEAKER- Sure, we have to, I'm trying to find the code names
48:10SPEAKERfor the various parts, including alchemist,
48:13SPEAKERbattle mage, and druid, and celestial.
48:16SPEAKER- Well, they ran out of rivers in the Northwest.
48:18SPEAKER- Yeah, I guess so.
48:19SPEAKER- And then they ran out of mountains, I think.
48:22SPEAKER- I suppose that's the case.
48:24SPEAKERDo you think, am I justified in feeling kind of warm
48:26SPEAKERand fuzzy about where competition is getting to
48:28SPEAKERin the GPU and CPU space?
48:30SPEAKERLike it's, I mean, I think in arguably it is way more robust
48:34SPEAKERthan it was five to 10 years ago, right?
48:35SPEAKERLike AMD was like a non-entity in CPUs
48:38SPEAKERfor a good long while.
48:41SPEAKER- Yeah, I think that's fair.
48:42SPEAKER- The G like Nvidia is still very dominant,
48:44SPEAKERbut like AMD is certainly making strides there.
48:46SPEAKERAnd now Intel seems to be putting
48:47SPEAKERin a pretty good effort here too.
48:48SPEAKERLike it's just nice to see all this rapid progress,
48:52SPEAKERwhich seems to be driven by the competitive landscape.
48:56SPEAKER- Well, I mean, so there's anytime the underlying framework
49:00SPEAKERof technology changes, there's an opportunity
49:02SPEAKERfor a non-leader to become the leader.
49:04SPEAKERAnd that's what AMD, like saw that they were behind
49:08SPEAKERand found in process technology compared
49:11SPEAKERto what Intel was doing.
49:12SPEAKERAnd so it built something that was,
49:14SPEAKERthat worked better independent of process,
49:16SPEAKERwhat process they were on.
49:18SPEAKERIntel is paying for their process failures in the last,
49:22SPEAKERwith the 10 nanometer stuff now.
49:24SPEAKERAnd I think anytime something fundamental changes
49:29SPEAKERabout how technology works, it's good for consumers.
49:32SPEAKER'Cause there will be a period of intense competition
49:34SPEAKERwhile we figure out what works best.
49:35SPEAKERAnd just to be clear, these aren't inexpensive things
49:38SPEAKERto figure out.
49:39SPEAKERThese are billion dollar bets by these huge companies.
49:43SPEAKER- Which again, take years to play out.
49:44SPEAKER- Yeah, and like they're making decisions.
49:47SPEAKERLike the chips that are coming to market now
49:49SPEAKERare based on decisions that were made five
49:50SPEAKERand even 10 years ago.
49:51SPEAKERSo it's, you know, this is the long game.
49:55SPEAKERLike think about this in terms of,
49:57SPEAKERif you work in this business for 30 years,
49:59SPEAKERyou get three full architectures maybe.
50:02SPEAKER- Interesting, that's a lot like whiskey making those.
50:06SPEAKER- Yeah.
50:06SPEAKER- Reading about a little while back.
50:08SPEAKERYeah, like if you're like a master distiller,
50:10SPEAKERyou get like, what, two, two and a half full rounds
50:14SPEAKERof product in your career.
50:17SPEAKER- Something like that, right?
50:18SPEAKER- Something like that, yeah.
50:19SPEAKER- Yeah.
50:20SPEAKER- So yeah, like I think it's,
50:24SPEAKERthey're saying this is gonna come out Q1 2022,
50:27SPEAKERthe consumer parts.
50:28SPEAKERI'm interested to see what they look like.
50:32SPEAKERI, you know, like you said,
50:33SPEAKERmore competition is good for everybody.
50:35SPEAKER- And more supply.
50:36SPEAKERAgain, you know, we'll see how the Foundry,
50:37SPEAKERhow the fabrication supply chain holds up under this load,
50:41SPEAKERbut hopefully.
50:43SPEAKER- So, I mean, from talking to Jesse a few weeks ago,
50:46SPEAKERthe ASICs are the problem.
50:48SPEAKERMaking the chips, if you can get the Foundry time
50:50SPEAKERis less of an issue, I think.
50:52SPEAKERBut I also have heard problems from people
50:54SPEAKERthat work in like bull making that are saying
50:57SPEAKERthat it's hard to get the,
50:59SPEAKERlike they're having chemical shortages,
51:01SPEAKERso they can't dope the bulls appropriately
51:03SPEAKERto make the slices that they need and all that stuff.
51:05SPEAKERSo.
51:06SPEAKER- Gotta be careful doping the bulls.
51:07SPEAKER- Look.
51:10SPEAKER(upbeat music)
51:16SPEAKER- All right, last upheaval for this episode, OnlyFans.
51:20SPEAKERThe sexy site that doesn't, not so sexy anymore.
51:23SPEAKER- Man, I really,
51:26SPEAKERI don't want to put the card before the horse here,
51:27SPEAKERbut that went really well for Tumblr, didn't it?
51:30SPEAKER- Look, man, Tumblr was the horniest website on earth.
51:35SPEAKERIt's like social network for the thirstiest, right?
51:37SPEAKERAnd then Verizon bought it and was like,
51:38SPEAKERno, gotta get rid of this stuff.
51:40SPEAKER- I went and looked up the timeline for weird.
51:42SPEAKERWe are fully getting ahead of ourselves here,
51:44SPEAKERbut I wrote down the timeline here.
51:47SPEAKERYahoo bought Tumblr in 2013 for $1.1 billion in cash, okay?
51:52SPEAKER- Congratulations, David Carp.
51:53SPEAKER- 2013.
51:54SPEAKER- Yeah.
51:56SPEAKER- In December, 2018, they banned adult content on Tumblr.
52:02SPEAKERIn August, 2019, Verizon,
52:04SPEAKERwho at that time had become the owner of Tumblr,
52:08SPEAKERsold Tumblr to Automattic, which as you said,
52:11SPEAKERthe makers of WordPress.
52:12SPEAKER- Yeah, and Gravatars.
52:14SPEAKER- And yes, apparently also.
52:16SPEAKERAnyway, Verizon sold Tumblr to Automattic
52:19SPEAKERfor what was rumored to be under $3 million.
52:21SPEAKER- What?
52:23SPEAKERThat's pocket change, man.
52:24SPEAKER- Not confirmed, but that was the rumor.
52:26SPEAKERSo from 2016, so in roughly six years,
52:30SPEAKERit went from an acquisition price of 1.1 billion
52:32SPEAKERto being sold for less than 3 million.
52:34SPEAKER- We could have done a Kickstarter
52:35SPEAKERand raised 3 million to buy Tumblr.
52:37SPEAKER- We could own Tumblr.
52:39SPEAKER- I mean, okay, so Tumblr is a weird example.
52:42SPEAKERSo there's another example
52:43SPEAKERof a previously porny site/app.
52:47SPEAKER- Don't tell me.
52:48SPEAKERI'm trying to...
52:51SPEAKER- It's the next one on the list.
52:52SPEAKER- I'm not looking.
52:53SPEAKERI'm intentionally, it's not Snapchat, is it?
52:55SPEAKER- It is Snapchat.
52:56SPEAKER- Is it Snapchat?
52:57SPEAKER- Remember Snapchat started as a way for teenagers
52:59SPEAKERto send dick pics to each other
53:00SPEAKERwithout being able to save them to the camera roll?
53:02SPEAKER- I'll take your word for that.
53:03SPEAKER- Sure, yeah, that was what the local news told me
53:06SPEAKERat the time at least.
53:07SPEAKER- Okay.
53:08SPEAKER- But no, they originally marketed Snapchat
53:11SPEAKERas a way to send racy pictures to your friends and lovers
53:15SPEAKERwithout an option to save it to the camera roll.
53:18SPEAKERAnd then when iOS added the ability
53:19SPEAKERto take screenshots of your screen,
53:21SPEAKERthey added a notification that was like,
53:23SPEAKER"Yo, somebody just took a screenshot
53:25SPEAKERof the nude that you sent them."
53:26SPEAKER- That is so awkward.
53:27SPEAKER- So then the other conversation.
53:32SPEAKERAnd then they gradually became the place
53:36SPEAKERthat you go to get cool sunglasses and music stuff.
53:40SPEAKERI don't know.
53:41SPEAKERThey made a concerted effort to move away
53:42SPEAKERfrom the dick pics market and into less lewd endeavors.
53:46SPEAKER- But did they do that by instituting new policy?
53:49SPEAKER- No, there's still a lot of sex workers
53:51SPEAKERthat sell pictures and videos and stuff on Snapchat.
53:54SPEAKER- Okay, so there was no actual ban
53:56SPEAKERof that sort of thing there?
53:57SPEAKER- No, they didn't ban it.
53:58SPEAKERAnd to be clear, the thing OnlyFans is doing,
54:00SPEAKERwe kind of got the cart ahead of the horse here,
54:02SPEAKERthey're banning, I believe, explicit sexual content,
54:05SPEAKERwhich I have not seen defined in any way yet.
54:08SPEAKERAnd I assume it means like- - The language I read
54:10SPEAKERwas that simple nudity is still allowed.
54:12SPEAKERIt's like explicit sexual acts
54:15SPEAKERare seem to be the kind of their dividing line.
54:20SPEAKER- I would not want this job for all the money in the world,
54:24SPEAKERbut I would love to be able to listen
54:26SPEAKERto the conference room meetings
54:28SPEAKERthat must've gone for 12 hours about the explicit line.
54:32SPEAKERLike, is touching yourself over clothes okay,
54:36SPEAKERbut under clothes not?
54:37SPEAKERLike, what about simulated penetration versus penetration?
54:42SPEAKERThere is, we should put a content warning
54:43SPEAKERon this episode, by the way.
54:45SPEAKERBut it's, the conversations that have to happen
54:51SPEAKERin order to make this kind of policy
54:54SPEAKERand apply it to a user base as broad as OnlyFans is,
54:57SPEAKER'cause OnlyFans is enormous, right?
54:59SPEAKERIt's a big fucking company at this point.
55:00SPEAKER- Especially after the pandemic,
55:02SPEAKERthey really, I don't think they were small before that,
55:05SPEAKERbut it seems like they really,
55:06SPEAKERwhat did they bring in last year?
55:08SPEAKERIt was a lot, I forget.
55:09SPEAKER- It was a lot.
55:10SPEAKERSo, okay, so it's an interesting,
55:13SPEAKERit's an interesting situation that now,
55:15SPEAKERbefore we get into the why I think OnlyFans is interesting
55:18SPEAKERand it's not because I'm a user.
55:22SPEAKER- You don't have to kink shame yourself.
55:23SPEAKER- Look, I got nothing against someone.
55:25SPEAKERLike, I just, I'm, anyway,
55:27SPEAKERI need to decide how much of my inner monologue
55:32SPEAKERI wanna share here.
55:33SPEAKER- Oh.
55:33SPEAKER- No, the, so the thing about this is the,
55:38SPEAKERabout 30 years ago, now this is,
55:42SPEAKERthis is, I'm gonna say some controversial stuff here
55:44SPEAKERand I'm probably gonna get it wrong,
55:45SPEAKERso I apologize in advance.
55:48SPEAKERA lot of the anti-porn crusaders from the '70s and '80s
55:52SPEAKERswitched over to being anti-trafficking
55:55SPEAKERand started going through the payment processors
55:56SPEAKERfor sex workers.
55:58SPEAKER- Okay.
55:59SPEAKER- And this ended up with legislation like SESTA and FOSTA,
56:02SPEAKERwhich applied some really, really strong,
56:06SPEAKERjust to be clear, we are anti-trafficking.
56:09SPEAKERWe are anti-child abuse.
56:11SPEAKERWe're anti people who are non-consentrally being forced
56:14SPEAKERto share or participate in pornographic endeavors.
56:18SPEAKEREveryone agrees that's bad.
56:19SPEAKER- I too endorse those stances.
56:21SPEAKER- Yeah.
56:22SPEAKERHowever, the thing that the anti-porn crusaders realize
56:25SPEAKERis they could, like, rather than saying, hey,
56:28SPEAKERpornography and masturbation is bad,
56:31SPEAKERthey went with, you know what's bad?
56:34SPEAKERTrafficking, human trafficking is bad.
56:37SPEAKERSo let's then regulate this industry at a really high level
56:41SPEAKERand really aggressively, 'cause nobody's gonna say,
56:44SPEAKERno, we're against human, we're pro-human trafficking.
56:48SPEAKERAnd that campaign has been very successful
56:50SPEAKER'cause they've gone actually at legislators
56:53SPEAKERand payment processors and stuff like that.
56:55SPEAKERSo OnlyFans, the morning we recorded this,
56:57SPEAKERcame out and said, hey, we're doing this,
57:01SPEAKERwe love you, OnlyFans community,
57:03SPEAKERwe're doing this because we have banking
57:06SPEAKERand payment processing problems.
57:07SPEAKER- Yeah, let me read the actual language here
57:09SPEAKER'cause they seem to be stinging from the criticism
57:12SPEAKERpretty strongly based on this wording.
57:14SPEAKERDear sex workers, is how they began that tweet.
57:18SPEAKERThe OnlyFans community would not be
57:19SPEAKERwhat it is today without you.
57:20SPEAKERThe policy change was necessary to secure banking
57:23SPEAKERand payment services to support you.
57:26SPEAKERWe are working around the clock to come up with solutions.
57:30SPEAKERHashtag sex work is work, so.
57:33SPEAKER- Yeah.
57:33SPEAKER- I don't know if this quite counts as backpedaling,
57:35SPEAKERbut they definitely seem to be feeling it from the backlash.
57:39SPEAKER- So the same thing happened to Pornhub a few months ago.
57:42SPEAKER- If you recall. - Oh, really?
57:43SPEAKERI did not know that.
57:44SPEAKER- The payment processors came at them.
57:47SPEAKERNow, just to be clear, Pornhub had larger problems
57:50SPEAKER'cause they were notoriously bad
57:51SPEAKERabout moderating their content to the point
57:54SPEAKERthat if somebody posted a nonconsensual video of you,
57:58SPEAKERit was really hard to get it removed,
58:00SPEAKERwhich is problematic and bad.
58:02SPEAKER- That is bad.
58:04SPEAKER- Because of that behavior, presumably MasterCard said,
58:08SPEAKER"Hey, we're not gonna run your payments anymore
58:10SPEAKER"if you don't fix this."
58:12SPEAKERSo Pornhub went 100% verified where you had to send an ID
58:16SPEAKERfor every single person that's in every video on the site.
58:19SPEAKERAnd anything that doesn't have that was removed.
58:22SPEAKER- Huh, no kidding.
58:26SPEAKERAnyway, so, okay, so that's the background.
58:29SPEAKEROnlyFans basically saying,
58:30SPEAKER"Hey," and if you don't know what OnlyFans is,
58:32SPEAKERit's basically Patreon for pornographers.
58:36SPEAKER- Yeah.
58:36SPEAKER- Is how it kind of started.
58:38SPEAKER- Yeah, or sex workers.
58:39SPEAKERI mean, it's very direct. - Yeah, sex workers.
58:40SPEAKER- It's very direct to consumer, though.
58:42SPEAKERThere's no, like there's no, you know,
58:46SPEAKERthe person who's been cut out of the equation
58:48SPEAKERis the sleazy guy with three buttons unbuttoned on his shirt
58:51SPEAKERand the gold chains sitting in the Pasadena back office
58:54SPEAKERcounting the money.
58:55SPEAKER- Yeah, the mustache and nogger hide crowd is gone.
58:57SPEAKER- The sleazy cigar chopper, the Jackie Treehorn.
59:01SPEAKER- Yeah, exactly, exactly.
59:04SPEAKER- It's very direct from the person doing the work
59:07SPEAKERto the people who want to consume it.
59:08SPEAKERBut hearing that stuff about legislation,
59:12SPEAKERlike I've always wondered why this was the case,
59:14SPEAKERbecause I very cynically have always thought like,
59:17SPEAKER"Isn't business business?"
59:18SPEAKERLike at the end of the day, aren't corporations,
59:21SPEAKERand you know, like banks and payment processors
59:22SPEAKERand everybody, like they're just out to make a buck.
59:24SPEAKERAnd so I never quite understood where the moralizing came in
59:28SPEAKERthat made those financial conduits shy away
59:32SPEAKERfrom this kind of work.
59:32SPEAKERSo hearing that there is that kind of moral crusade aspect
59:36SPEAKERto it historically is pretty interesting.
59:37SPEAKER- Yeah, the SESTA/FOSTA legislation that came out last year,
59:41SPEAKERthe year before, is one of the big drivers here.
59:43SPEAKER- Okay.
59:44SPEAKER- And that imposes moderation requirements on people
59:48SPEAKERthat produce or distribute adult content.
59:51SPEAKER- Okay.
59:52SPEAKERSo, okay, here's the thing that OnlyFans has going for it.
59:55SPEAKERRight?
59:57SPEAKERThey have the most creator-friendly payment
1:00:02SPEAKERand marketing and business infrastructure
1:00:05SPEAKERof any of the content creation sites that I've looked at.
1:00:08SPEAKERThey pay typically, they used to pay in a week.
1:00:11SPEAKERI don't think that's the case anymore.
1:00:13SPEAKERWhereas for a long time,
1:00:15SPEAKERTwitch paid 90 days after revenue was taken.
1:00:18SPEAKERPatreon pays every 30 days.
1:00:21SPEAKERLike these terms are good.
1:00:23SPEAKERMore than that, they give you incredibly granular control
1:00:26SPEAKERover your offering as a content creator.
1:00:28SPEAKERSo if you wanna do photos, if you wanna do videos,
1:00:32SPEAKERif you wanna do live, if you wanna do pay-per-view,
1:00:35SPEAKERif you wanna do content that's exclusive to one user,
1:00:40SPEAKERthey give you an infrastructure to create
1:00:42SPEAKERand distribute that stuff inside the platform,
1:00:45SPEAKERwhereas nobody else does that range.
1:00:47SPEAKERAnd they let you set the pricing manually.
1:00:49SPEAKERSo if you, like on Twitch,
1:00:51SPEAKERthe pricing for a tier one sub
1:00:53SPEAKERon every single channel on Twitch is five bucks.
1:00:55SPEAKERAnd the percentage of that five bucks
1:00:56SPEAKERthat goes to the creator
1:00:58SPEAKERvaries based on their deal with Twitch.
1:01:01SPEAKEROn Patreon, you can set that number,
1:01:04SPEAKERbut you don't have the ability to do pay-per-view content.
1:01:06SPEAKERYou don't have the ability to do stuff
1:01:08SPEAKERthat's locked off to specific tiers outside of audio.
1:01:10SPEAKERThere's no video distribution on Patreon.
1:01:14SPEAKERIt's a, is a incredible,
1:01:19SPEAKERthe flexibility that OnlyFans
1:01:21SPEAKERgives a independent content creator is enormous,
1:01:24SPEAKERwhich is, I think, gonna be their approach
1:01:27SPEAKERwhen they come out of this.
1:01:28SPEAKER'Cause yesterday, after I tweeted
1:01:30SPEAKERthat Patreon offers a good split
1:01:32SPEAKERand good terms for their content creators,
1:01:37SPEAKERsomebody from Patreon emailed me
1:01:38SPEAKERon my public-facing address and was like,
1:01:39SPEAKER"Hey, we'd like to hook you up with VIP OnlyFans service."
1:01:43SPEAKER- You don't say.
1:01:44SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:01:45SPEAKERWeird, right?
1:01:46SPEAKER- No.
1:01:48SPEAKER- It's kind of a weird digital gentrification thing.
1:01:52SPEAKER'Cause it's like they let the,
1:01:53SPEAKERthey built this business on the,
1:01:56SPEAKERI'm air quoting, CD sex worker business.
1:01:59SPEAKERAnd now that it's big and they have this big infrastructure
1:02:02SPEAKERand they can afford to support the normals, the normies,
1:02:05SPEAKERthey put in a Starbucks and a Whole Foods
1:02:07SPEAKERand they're expecting me to roll over from Twitch
1:02:09SPEAKERand hop on the OnlyFans train.
1:02:11SPEAKER- Like what you're saying is they built a business
1:02:13SPEAKERon content that everyone consumes,
1:02:16SPEAKERbut everybody pretends is like they're above,
1:02:18SPEAKERI guess is what, you know?
1:02:19SPEAKER- Exactly.
1:02:20SPEAKER- Like everybody consumes this stuff,
1:02:22SPEAKERbut they all sneer at it at the same time.
1:02:24SPEAKERAnd now the second that they got huge,
1:02:25SPEAKERthey want to discard that base of workers
1:02:29SPEAKERfor more socially acceptable stuff.
1:02:31SPEAKER- Let's say, nudge it off to the side a little bit.
1:02:34SPEAKER- Yes.
1:02:36SPEAKERDo you see any other outcome from this
1:02:39SPEAKERthan them just sticking?
1:02:40SPEAKERI mean, it sounds like they're trying
1:02:42SPEAKERto explore some other solution.
1:02:44SPEAKERI don't know what that could mean though.
1:02:46SPEAKER- So it's unclear to me whether this is going to be
1:02:49SPEAKERa Tumblr or a Snapchat, right?
1:02:53SPEAKERI think, like, I really don't know.
1:02:59SPEAKERI think if content creators, well, first off,
1:03:03SPEAKERthe content creator situation on Twitch is unfortunate.
1:03:06SPEAKERThere's stuff happening right now,
1:03:07SPEAKERespecially in the African-American community on Twitch
1:03:13SPEAKERthat is awful in terms of hate rating and stuff like that.
1:03:17SPEAKERAnd Twitch is having a hard time responding,
1:03:18SPEAKERis not responding to it, or if they are,
1:03:21SPEAKERthen they're not talking to anybody about it.
1:03:24SPEAKERSo people are upset with Twitch pretty much all the time.
1:03:26SPEAKERWhen Mixer went away, the main alternative to Twitch
1:03:28SPEAKERwent away, unless you want to go over to YouTube,
1:03:30SPEAKERwhich has its own host of Google-related problems.
1:03:33SPEAKERSo there's not really a Twitch competitor right now
1:03:36SPEAKERfor all intents and purposes in that space.
1:03:38SPEAKERAnd there's a real argument in favor
1:03:41SPEAKERof something like OnlyFans,
1:03:42SPEAKERwhich basically lets you build a Patreon-style community
1:03:45SPEAKERand a Twitch community on the same platform
1:03:48SPEAKERwith more granular tools to give you better control
1:03:50SPEAKERover your deliverables.
1:03:52SPEAKER- Yeah, more infrastructure to deliver that stuff, right?
1:03:54SPEAKER- Yeah, like one of the things we talked about
1:03:56SPEAKERwas if we wanted to do video that was Patreon-only,
1:03:58SPEAKERwe have no real way to do it here on Patreon.
1:04:02SPEAKER- There are third-party solutions,
1:04:03SPEAKERbut they're by far not perfect.
1:04:05SPEAKER- And they're incredibly expensive.
1:04:06SPEAKER- And they're very expensive.
1:04:07SPEAKER- Yeah, so that's interesting.
1:04:11SPEAKERIf people look at it like that,
1:04:12SPEAKERthen I see a business model that includes them
1:04:15SPEAKERnot having the sexually explicit material
1:04:19SPEAKERthat they're worried about right now.
1:04:21SPEAKERI also, in a world where blockchain gas prices
1:04:26SPEAKERweren't ridiculous because the networks
1:04:27SPEAKERare overextended right now,
1:04:29SPEAKERI could see OnlyFans switching to just taking payment
1:04:33SPEAKERon Ethereum or Bitcoin or something like that
1:04:35SPEAKERin a way that is not,
1:04:38SPEAKERlike that's kind of what that stuff is for.
1:04:39SPEAKERBut the problem right now is on Ethereum,
1:04:41SPEAKERespecially the price of doing a transaction is so high
1:04:45SPEAKERthat often the transaction cost will exceed,
1:04:48SPEAKERwould exceed like a base OnlyFans subscription
1:04:50SPEAKERfor most of the channels.
1:04:51SPEAKERSo I don't know if that works.
1:04:55SPEAKERYeah, I don't know.
1:04:56SPEAKERIt's a weird place to be for the OnlyFans.
1:05:01SPEAKERAnd I definitely feel for the people who've built audiences
1:05:03SPEAKERon those sites, on that site over the last few years,
1:05:06SPEAKERlike that's hard work.
1:05:08SPEAKER- For sure.
1:05:09SPEAKERLike having your platform pulled out from under you
1:05:11SPEAKERis not a feeling that's good.
1:05:13SPEAKER- Especially given how many stories you've seen
1:05:16SPEAKERin the last year of people who have turned to this platform
1:05:18SPEAKERwhen they lost their jobs due to the pandemic
1:05:20SPEAKERor are using it as a supplement to try to make ends meet
1:05:23SPEAKERbecause times are extra rough right now.
1:05:26SPEAKERI mean, this is just an extreme example though
1:05:27SPEAKERof the peril of relying on these giant corporations
1:05:35SPEAKERto sustain your livelihood.
1:05:36SPEAKERYou are subject to whatever their whims,
1:05:39SPEAKERtheir kind of snap policy decisions.
1:05:44SPEAKERLike you don't have a lot of recourse
1:05:45SPEAKERif all of your eggs are in one basket,
1:05:47SPEAKERthey can kind of make your life very miserable.
1:05:49SPEAKERThey're getting very difficult at the drop of a hat.
1:05:52SPEAKER- The benefit is you don't have,
1:05:59SPEAKERwhat's the right way to say this?
1:06:00SPEAKERThe benefit is you don't have to build the infrastructure
1:06:03SPEAKERaround sharing whatever the form of content is you create.
1:06:06SPEAKERSo you don't have to host your podcast.
1:06:09SPEAKERYou don't have to host your live streams.
1:06:11SPEAKERYou don't have to pay for certain video hosting costs.
1:06:14SPEAKERThe downside is that, like you said,
1:06:16SPEAKERwhen they make a policy change,
1:06:18SPEAKERit can absolutely destroy your business.
1:06:20SPEAKER- Yeah, at the same time, we both came from a company
1:06:23SPEAKERthat did all of that stuff itself.
1:06:26SPEAKER- Yeah, we spent an unbelievable amount of money doing that.
1:06:28SPEAKER- And when we know exactly how expensive
1:06:30SPEAKERand labor intensive it is to do all of that stuff yourself.
1:06:32SPEAKERSo both solutions are problematic, let's say.
1:06:38SPEAKER- It's hard.
1:06:39SPEAKERIt's hard out there for content creators,
1:06:41SPEAKERwhether you're streaming games on Twitch or Sex Worker.
1:06:44SPEAKERSo yeah, I mean, I guess solidarity
1:06:47SPEAKERfor the folks on OnlyFans, and we hope that hopefully,
1:06:51SPEAKERhopefully OnlyFans comes up with a solution
1:06:53SPEAKERthat works for everybody.
1:06:54SPEAKERAnd also, I'm kind of curious.
1:06:56SPEAKERI almost want to take up the VIP offer
1:06:58SPEAKERjust to see what the reaction on OnlyFans is.
1:07:01SPEAKERLike, I can't imagine that the community there
1:07:03SPEAKERis gonna be super thrilled about some old beardy guy
1:07:05SPEAKERplaying video games.
1:07:06SPEAKER- Hey, look, everybody's got their thing.
1:07:09SPEAKER- That's true.
1:07:10SPEAKER- Don't sell yourself short.
1:07:11SPEAKER- I'm not showing my butt, Brad.
1:07:13SPEAKER- Okay, let's say that's a personal decision.
1:07:15SPEAKER(laughing)
1:07:17SPEAKERThat's the power of controlling your own content.
1:07:21SPEAKERYou can do what you're comfortable with.
1:07:23SPEAKER- There you go, that's exactly right.
1:07:24SPEAKERNo one tells me what to do.
1:07:25SPEAKER- That's rare, yeah.
1:07:27SPEAKERExcept our lovely patrons.
1:07:31SPEAKER- That was a good segue.
1:07:33SPEAKERWow, wonderful people who support this podcast.
1:07:37SPEAKER- Yes, every month, every week, rather,
1:07:40SPEAKERwe thank all of our patrons,
1:07:42SPEAKEReverybody who supports the show.
1:07:43SPEAKERAs always, Brad and Will Made in TechPod
1:07:45SPEAKERis 100% listener supported.
1:07:47SPEAKERWe don't take any money from OnlyFans or--
1:07:49SPEAKER- No, not yet.
1:07:51SPEAKER- I mean, maybe.
1:07:52SPEAKERWe could do video podcasts over there.
1:07:54SPEAKERBrad and Will Made in OnlyFans.
1:07:58SPEAKERBut yeah, here's the takeaway.
1:08:01SPEAKERIf you're on the Patreon,
1:08:03SPEAKERyou get access to the fabulous TechPod discord.
1:08:05SPEAKERYou get, at the $5 tier and higher,
1:08:07SPEAKERyou get access to one patron exclusive episode a month,
1:08:11SPEAKERwhere sometimes we take the bad questions
1:08:12SPEAKERfrom the Q&A episode and go through them, answer them.
1:08:15SPEAKER- There are no bad questions, okay.
1:08:17SPEAKER- Sometimes there are bad questions, Brad.
1:08:19SPEAKERThanks.
1:08:23SPEAKERBut the TechPod discord is the jewel in the Patreon cap,
1:08:29SPEAKERI think.
1:08:30SPEAKERYou have access to fabulous people
1:08:31SPEAKERwho probably share at least some of your interests,
1:08:34SPEAKERand if they don't and you share your interests,
1:08:35SPEAKERI bet you'll find people who are into the thing
1:08:37SPEAKERthat you're into and maybe didn't even know it.
1:08:38SPEAKER- Yeah, like you could get, for example,
1:08:41SPEAKERyou could be excited about the new version of Debian
1:08:43SPEAKERthat just released and chat with somebody
1:08:46SPEAKERwho used to be a Debian developer about it.
1:08:48SPEAKER- Or you're like, "Hey, there's a Quake remake."
1:08:50SPEAKERAnd then somebody's like, "Oh yeah, I worked on that."
1:08:52SPEAKER- Right, yes, yes, somebody who, yes.
1:08:56SPEAKERDo we fascinate a lot of people
1:08:58SPEAKERin a lot of fascinating lines of work on that server?
1:09:00SPEAKER- Yeah, and fascinating hobbies
1:09:02SPEAKERif you're not in fascinating lines of work.
1:09:04SPEAKERDid we talk about, I don't know if I can talk about that.
1:09:09SPEAKERWell, we have people that help with career advice
1:09:12SPEAKERand people are talking about the choices that they've made.
1:09:16SPEAKERYou have people at all stages of their careers,
1:09:18SPEAKERso you can talk to people who've been there
1:09:19SPEAKERand done the things that you've done before.
1:09:22SPEAKERI find it to be an incredible resource
1:09:23SPEAKERand I've lived a blessed life,
1:09:25SPEAKERso I think that's really cool.
1:09:27SPEAKER- The word for it to me is edifying.
1:09:31SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:09:32SPEAKER- There's just a lot to learn from a community like that.
1:09:35SPEAKER- Well, and people share things that I get in there
1:09:39SPEAKERand I'm like, "Oh my God, I can't believe
1:09:40SPEAKERthat we have people who are telling us how."
1:09:42SPEAKERJust the level of expertise and knowledge
1:09:45SPEAKERand life experience and skill
1:09:46SPEAKERthat people have shared is incredible,
1:09:48SPEAKERso I love spending time there every day.
1:09:51SPEAKERAnd you can too by going to patreon.com/techbaud.
1:09:56SPEAKER- That's patreon.com/techbaud.
1:09:58SPEAKER- And in the course of doing so,
1:10:00SPEAKERhelp keep this podcast going.
1:10:02SPEAKER- Yeah, and a very special thank you, as always,
1:10:04SPEAKERto our executive producer, to your patrons,
1:10:07SPEAKERAndrew Slosky, The Bunny Fiend, Jacob Chappell,
1:10:10SPEAKERJoel Krauska, Twinkle Twinkie, David Allen,
1:10:13SPEAKERand James Kamik.
1:10:13SPEAKERThank you all so much for your support.
1:10:15SPEAKERWe really appreciate it.
1:10:17SPEAKERAnd I guess that's the end of the show this week.
1:10:19SPEAKER- That's right.
1:10:20SPEAKERI guess you gotta go start packing.
1:10:22SPEAKER- Well, no, I'm not going anywhere for a week still.
1:10:24SPEAKER- Oh, well.
1:10:25SPEAKER- But I do have to like,
1:10:27SPEAKERI have to look at everything on my desk
1:10:28SPEAKERand think about what comes and what goes.
1:10:31SPEAKER- So you're not taking the stream machine?
1:10:32SPEAKER- No, I can't.
1:10:33SPEAKERIt's a small car, dude.
1:10:34SPEAKER- You're being a single stream, single box?
1:10:38SPEAKERYou're gonna single box it?
1:10:39SPEAKER- So I'm gonna single box it.
1:10:40SPEAKERI'm going old school.
1:10:42SPEAKERSo I got that face cam, and I got a light,
1:10:45SPEAKERand I got a tripod for that,
1:10:46SPEAKERso I think I'm good on that side.
1:10:48SPEAKERI got the headset.
1:10:49SPEAKERI'm not gonna take the boom mic, I don't think,
1:10:51SPEAKERso I might sound different week after next for a month.
1:10:54SPEAKER- Not taking the big mixer,
1:10:55SPEAKERtaking the little digital audio interface,
1:10:58SPEAKERtaking the stream deck.
1:11:00SPEAKER- Oh, okay.
1:11:01SPEAKER- That thing's important.
1:11:01SPEAKER- You're packing up a,
1:11:02SPEAKERman, I have had a stream deck sitting here in a box
1:11:05SPEAKERfor eight, 10 months that I,
1:11:08SPEAKERI should really set that thing up.
1:11:09SPEAKER- Brad, as much as you like scripting things,
1:11:11SPEAKERit's going to change your life.
1:11:13SPEAKER- Oh, you, when we talked about Monput,
1:11:15SPEAKERmy little command line thing to switch monitor inputs
1:11:19SPEAKERand so forth.
1:11:20SPEAKER- You mean the one to control?
1:11:22SPEAKER- Yep, that's the one.
1:11:24SPEAKER- Somebody tweeted at me saying
1:11:25SPEAKERthey had done something similar
1:11:26SPEAKERand then bound those script functions
1:11:28SPEAKERto buttons on the stream deck.
1:11:30SPEAKER- Yep.
1:11:31SPEAKER- So they can just change all the inputs on their monitors
1:11:33SPEAKERby hitting stream deck buttons instantly,
1:11:36SPEAKERwhich I really need to set up.
1:11:38SPEAKER- The problem I have is that my,
1:11:40SPEAKERmy stream deck is hooked up to the computer
1:11:41SPEAKERthat's not hooked up to the monitor.
1:11:42SPEAKERI wouldn't want to change.
1:11:44SPEAKER- Well, now you just have to send those commands over SSH
1:11:47SPEAKERfrom one computer from the computer it is hooked up
1:11:48SPEAKERto the one that's not.
1:11:50SPEAKER- I could just buy a second stream deck.
1:11:51SPEAKER- Always a way to make it work.
1:11:54SPEAKER- Exactly.
1:11:56SPEAKERWe will see you all next week.
1:11:58SPEAKERThanks for listening.
1:11:59SPEAKER- Bye.
1:12:00SPEAKER(upbeat music)