00:00SPEAKERYou might not know it, but I'm spinning the bottom of my office chair as we speak.
00:05SPEAKERDid you hear anything?
00:07SPEAKERThere's a little click every once in a while.
00:08SPEAKERThat's the floor creaking.
00:10SPEAKERAh, the wheels.
00:11SPEAKERNo, I hear nothing.
00:12SPEAKERAre absolutely silent.
00:14SPEAKEROh, roller blade wheels, dude.
00:16SPEAKEROh, you got roller blade wheels?
00:17SPEAKERI did it finally after I don't know why.
00:19SPEAKERWhy was I staring at them on Amazon for like a year?
00:22SPEAKERI did it. I did it ages ago there.
00:24SPEAKERI mean, like, look, there's a weird thing that took me to get some getting used to
00:27SPEAKERwhere like they have a little bit more inertia on turns.
00:31SPEAKEROh, my God. But like other than that, pretty good.
00:35SPEAKERLike I can I can push off and glide most of the way across this room.
00:39SPEAKERI mean, I'm on hardwood, to be fair, not to be careful of the pigs.
00:41SPEAKERThey're right behind you.
00:42SPEAKERReally, really have to be careful about the momentum of the chair.
00:46SPEAKERNow, it's it's a weird, unnatural, like buttery feeling as you glide around.
00:49SPEAKERIt's like, yeah, no marks either, which is really nice.
00:52SPEAKERWell, yeah, that's not the real story.
00:56SPEAKERWhat happened? What's going on, Brad?
00:57SPEAKERLay it on me to to further contextualize.
01:00SPEAKERI put roller blade wheels on this now 18 year old office chair.
01:05SPEAKERJesus Christ, Brad, why do you have an 18 year old office chair?
01:07SPEAKERIsn't that thing blown out and like wrecked?
01:09SPEAKERI mean, it's actually like shockingly still in pretty good shape.
01:12SPEAKERThis is a situation like when you you know how you buy a new mattress
01:15SPEAKERand you're like, oh, man, my old mattress was a was a turd sandwich.
01:17SPEAKERWhat have I done?
01:18SPEAKERSo as long as you just don't buy the new thing, you'll never know the difference.
01:21SPEAKEROh, God, you're going to you're you're the thing is you're stealing
01:24SPEAKERfrom future Brad with this unergonomic, uncomfortable office chair,
01:29SPEAKERespecially the amount of time I'm sitting in this thing.
01:31SPEAKERYeah. Day to day these days.
01:32SPEAKERBut anyway, whatever the design is, you have like the the install process
01:38SPEAKERis you like literally by hand, just pull the old wheels and casters out.
01:42SPEAKERYep. And show the new ones in.
01:44SPEAKERYeah, it's like a five minute install, right?
01:45SPEAKERThe whole thing is shockingly easy.
01:48SPEAKERYeah, I had to lean my chair down on the floor and I yanked him out
01:51SPEAKERand I put the new ones in and I was good to go.
01:53SPEAKERShockingly easy unless, say, you've got
01:56SPEAKERdried up 18 year old grease in the wheel wells of your chair.
02:02SPEAKERI got four of the five pop right out.
02:04SPEAKEROh, no. The fifth one, the plastic wheel, you know what an office
02:08SPEAKERstandard wheel like the plastic wheel is on like a metal post.
02:11SPEAKERAnd that's what. Yeah, it's a it's a hard steel post with a little flange
02:15SPEAKERon the top kind of kind of plugs into the base of the chair.
02:18SPEAKERInstead of the whole aperture coming out as one piece, the plastic wheel
02:22SPEAKERcame off of the metal post, and then it was just the metal post stuck in there.
02:25SPEAKEROh, boy. Oh, my God.
02:27SPEAKERYou have a set of vice vice grips or anything? I do not.
02:30SPEAKERVice grips would have fixed that problem in like two seconds.
02:32SPEAKERHere is much, much worse.
02:33SPEAKERI should probably go buy some vice grips after this experience.
02:37SPEAKERLike I generally like we have a little basic toolbox.
02:39SPEAKERIt's got some pliers on a wrench and screwdrivers, and that's, you know,
02:43SPEAKERyeah, generally living in an apartment.
02:45SPEAKERI hear a word like vice grips, and I'm just like that probably doesn't belong here,
02:48SPEAKERalthough I channel locks and vice grips both really useful.
02:51SPEAKERIt turns out probably those probably could sit in an apartment closet just fine.
02:54SPEAKERRight. I mean, it's like the danger with vice grips is it always has been
03:00SPEAKERthat if you use them improperly, you can round out any bolt
03:04SPEAKERand destroy almost any piece of equipment in like 30 seconds.
03:07SPEAKERWow. OK, that's funny.
03:09SPEAKERYeah. So like my dad always when he had people coming over to work on the on the place,
03:14SPEAKERhe would always take the vice grips out of the the the tractor toolbox
03:18SPEAKERbefore somebody else would use the tractor.
03:20SPEAKERNice case. Well, it had happened like one of the guys that he used to have bush hog.
03:25SPEAKERHey, came in and rounded out a bolt on the on the on the PTO for the anyway.
03:30SPEAKERIt doesn't matter, but avoid and avoid any wanton use of vice grips.
03:34SPEAKERSo like don't hit him with a sledgehammer, it turns out.
03:36SPEAKEROh, my God, man.
03:37SPEAKERA five minute five minute install process turned into like a two hour odyssey.
03:41SPEAKERIs this why we didn't record last night?
03:43SPEAKERThat is why this is why we didn't record last night because I didn't have a chair to sit.
03:46SPEAKERI would I would in the maker channel on the discord
03:49SPEAKERasking for suggestions and posted a picture of what happened.
03:51SPEAKERAnd of course, they recommended vice grips straight off.
03:54SPEAKERI don't have any vice grips, but they started saying like,
03:56SPEAKERwell, can you weld something to it and something, something like
04:00SPEAKERI can't go welding going on in this apartment, even in the communal garage.
04:03SPEAKERI don't think there's any facility for welding.
04:06SPEAKERYeah, we know what that little post looks like.
04:07SPEAKERI mean, there's nothing to grip on.
04:09SPEAKERIt's like it is jammed in there and there is nothing to grip.
04:13SPEAKEROh, my God. It took a pair of pliers.
04:17SPEAKERYeah. W.D. 40, a hairdryer.
04:20SPEAKERWhat do you use a hairdryer for?
04:22SPEAKERIt's a medical, a medical tourniquet and two people to get that thing out.
04:27SPEAKERThe hairdryer was to kind of expand.
04:29SPEAKERThey recommended applying some heat.
04:31SPEAKEROK, because it would be things makes them expand.
04:34SPEAKERGrease looser to probably.
04:35SPEAKERWell, the the grease that was in there was completely dry and tacky
04:38SPEAKERand not going anywhere.
04:39SPEAKERBut they said that it would make the metal expand a little bit. Wow.
04:44SPEAKERDude, holy shit, this is a situation where like you and your partner
04:48SPEAKERon either end of this thing, one of you is holding the chair leg
04:50SPEAKERand the other one is pulling back as hard as you can while squeezing the pliers.
04:53SPEAKERI had to have her almost like sit on the chair or like hold it down
04:56SPEAKERwhile I pulled with all of my might on these so we wrapped the tourniquet,
04:59SPEAKERwrap the tourniquet around the the posts to give the flyer something to grip onto.
05:04SPEAKEROK. Heated the thing, like worked for W.D. 40 down, you know, rotated it
05:08SPEAKERa lot to kind of work it down in there and then just pulled with all of my might.
05:12SPEAKERAnd when it finally came out, it sprayed a mixture of W.D.
05:16SPEAKER40 and that old grease across the room and all the way up my arm.
05:20SPEAKERIt was just everywhere.
05:21SPEAKERWhat did the pigs think about this?
05:22SPEAKEROh, my God, they were pretty chill through the whole thing.
05:24SPEAKERYou know, like it was a net gain for them because this thing's so quiet now.
05:28SPEAKERThey don't even hear me roll around anymore.
05:29SPEAKERThat's true. Their quality of life is only going up.
05:32SPEAKERBut when they always think they got to look at everything
05:34SPEAKERthat happens in that room is weird human stuff and just be like,
05:37SPEAKERwhat the hell, man? Let's not get into that.
05:42SPEAKERSo welcome to Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod, I'm Will.
06:12SPEAKERHi, Brad. Guess what, Will?
06:14SPEAKERWhat, Brad? Time to rank.
06:16SPEAKERWhat? Time to come.
06:17SPEAKERDude, I showered today. I'm not rank.
06:20SPEAKERWell, you're going to get rank.
06:22SPEAKEROh, yeah. We're going to get the list filth all over you here.
06:26SPEAKEROK, so this is this is a I would call this a medium concept episode.
06:31SPEAKEROK, that's right. It's not high concept. It's not low concept.
06:34SPEAKERThat's that's a little humbling considering I thought of it, but OK.
06:38SPEAKERLike I think it's I think this is good.
06:39SPEAKERI think this is a good place to be with your concepting. OK.
06:42SPEAKERAnd what's the pitch?
06:43SPEAKERWhat's the what's the what's the what's the topic?
06:46SPEAKERWell, first of all, I would just, you know, I'd like to point out we have
06:48SPEAKERwe have now passed the federally mandated statute of limitations
06:52SPEAKERon podcast ranking episodes since the last one.
06:55SPEAKERIt's been more than a year.
06:56SPEAKERThe windows has it been.
06:58SPEAKERWait, are you establishing that we can only do one ranking a year?
07:01SPEAKERBecause that's not enough. We need to do more rankings.
07:03SPEAKERI think it's a fuzzy requirement.
07:04SPEAKERI don't think we should rank too often. Take it from me.
07:07SPEAKERYeah. Someone who has spent
07:09SPEAKERa good part of the last decade ranking things.
07:11SPEAKERYou don't want to get into a tool.
07:12SPEAKERI'm always skittish about suggesting ranking things because I feel like
07:16SPEAKERyou're a little gun like you're a little you're a little gun shy after after.
07:21SPEAKERLike there's a period of time after game of the year
07:23SPEAKERthat I feel like it's not appropriate to ask you to consider ranking things.
07:26SPEAKERMm hmm. You know, I can I'm always down to rank.
07:28SPEAKERI think the bigger concern is that, well, it depends on
07:33SPEAKERwhether you believe there's any such thing as bad engagement.
07:36SPEAKERBecause there's nothing that will engage your audience like ranking things.
07:41SPEAKERBut what they think of it might not necessarily be positive.
07:44SPEAKERYou know what I mean?
07:44SPEAKEROnce upon a time, we devoted two features in the magazine
07:48SPEAKERto the greatest PC technologies of all time.
07:52SPEAKERIt was a list of either 100 or 200 things.
07:56SPEAKERAnd we spent literally three days locked in a conference room
07:59SPEAKERtalking about it with white with a whiteboard covered with sticky notes.
08:02SPEAKERYeah, that's the problem.
08:03SPEAKEREach had one technology on them.
08:05SPEAKEROK. And we moved them back and forth until we had a ranking
08:08SPEAKERthat made literally every person in the magazine angry except for me.
08:12SPEAKERThat's the end goal.
08:13SPEAKERYeah. So nobody should leave happy.
08:17SPEAKERUSB was especially, especially, especially in the audience.
08:21SPEAKERUSB was the winner.
08:23SPEAKERBrad, is engagement the same as publicity?
08:25SPEAKERThere's no such thing as a bad version.
08:28SPEAKERWe got more email about that than any cover that didn't feature exactly a woman.
08:34SPEAKERAnd if it's even if it's hate mail, at least people are listening to your stuff.
08:39SPEAKERSo, OK, so what are we ranking today?
08:40SPEAKEROK, what's the pitch?
08:42SPEAKERThe vague idea was, hey, building PCs in the late 90s.
08:49SPEAKERSure was a pain in the ass.
08:50SPEAKERSo you want an excuse to be like, you kids have it so easy these days?
08:55SPEAKERIt was boring.
08:55SPEAKERI was thinking more of a positive, like, look how far we've come kind of angle.
09:00SPEAKERHowever, you want to interpret this.
09:01SPEAKERYeah, I see. I see what's happening here.
09:03SPEAKERThings look how much better things are today.
09:05SPEAKERAnyway, you know, I just kind of I was thinking like there's
09:07SPEAKERthere's so much stuff that has evolved over the years in the realm
09:11SPEAKERin the realm of building, configuring, kind of servicing, administrating PCs.
09:15SPEAKERAnd I really appreciate that a lot of that stuff has happened
09:19SPEAKERbecause, boy, did some of that stuff suck.
09:21SPEAKERIt's a lot easier now than it was, though, like for real, like you
09:25SPEAKERyou can mess things up still pretty badly, but for the most part,
09:28SPEAKERit just kind of goes together and you put the screws in and then like
09:31SPEAKERthey've smoothed off the places that you can destroy hardware.
09:34SPEAKERThat's what it is. Like there's just so much less friction.
09:36SPEAKERYou know, it's like it's not like most of the stuff
09:38SPEAKERwe're going to be talking about here was impossible back in the day.
09:40SPEAKERIt's just so much more convenient now, you know?
09:42SPEAKERYeah. Agreed.
09:43SPEAKERIt's like, yes, I could have had a stack of floppy disks there as boot disks
09:47SPEAKERnext to the monitor or I did for a long time.
09:49SPEAKERRight. Like you just don't have to do that stuff anymore.
09:51SPEAKERLike it's there's a lot that has gotten better.
09:53SPEAKERSo anyway, OK, I thought we'd just make a list of stuff and rank.
09:58SPEAKERLet's come up with the definitive ranking of what do we call this?
10:03SPEAKERImprovements in PC building technology.
10:06SPEAKERWe have twenty twenty nine items on the shortlist.
10:11SPEAKERYes. Right now. Yes.
10:13SPEAKERI think we're going to cut this down. Do we want to get to ten?
10:16SPEAKERTen sounds good. OK, ranked list of ten.
10:18SPEAKERThat sounds like a good idea.
10:22SPEAKERI'm going to let you do the typing since my keyboard's loud.
10:24SPEAKEROK. I do enjoy a quiet keyboard.
10:26SPEAKERYeah. Look, the only downside of the mechanical.
10:29SPEAKERYeah. Let's all just read off this list.
10:31SPEAKERI imagine some of these are going to be consolidated.
10:33SPEAKERSome of them will be removed or merged right off the bat.
10:37SPEAKERWe'll kind of refine the list before we start ranking the list.
10:40SPEAKERBut here's here's what we jotted down from memory.
10:44SPEAKERModular power supplies.
10:46SPEAKEROK. USB. That's technology of all time,
10:50SPEAKERaccording to the mention PC magazine.
10:52SPEAKERI hear they're an authority.
10:56SPEAKERMoving away from DVI.
10:59SPEAKERHmm. It's an interesting one.
11:01SPEAKERYeah. Dude, I think I would go back to TV at this point.
11:05SPEAKERThat's enough being able to being able to plug your PC into your TV.
11:09SPEAKERThose are kind of related, it turns out. Yes.
11:11SPEAKERSata. Flat panels.
11:16SPEAKERSmooth edges on cases slash aluminum cases.
11:19SPEAKERHmm. Thumb screws.
11:23SPEAKERPCIE, PCI express.
11:27SPEAKERUh, I don't know, like UEFI, what would you characterize UEFI as?
11:32SPEAKERWell, it's like a system. It's a system.
11:35SPEAKERYes, I know that it replaces the BIOS.
11:37SPEAKERBut what is that category of thing like system controller?
11:39SPEAKERIs that what you would call that?
11:41SPEAKERI guess BIOS replacement is what I would call it.
11:43SPEAKERI sure did define it by the thing it replaced.
11:45SPEAKERBut that's what it is.
11:46SPEAKERBut I never thought about like, what is a BIOS?
11:48SPEAKERBecause it was always just the BIOS.
11:49SPEAKERLike, you know, it's the basic input output system.
11:51SPEAKERSo, yeah, it's the interface between the hardware and the operating system.
11:55SPEAKERRight. So whatever whatever a BIOS is, UEFI is the thing that kind of replaced that.
11:59SPEAKERIt's the glue that sticks the operating system to the motherboard.
12:02SPEAKERRight. Although I still feel like people call it a BIOS sort of like you're not.
12:05SPEAKEREverybody still calls it a BIOS. Right.
12:07SPEAKERSo so what I wrote here is UEFI and also that's really hard acronym to say fast.
12:12SPEAKERCan you? UEFI?
12:13SPEAKERUEFI? Weefi? No, no, that's a different thing.
12:15SPEAKERNo, don't say weefi.
12:17SPEAKERPeople think you're a furry and you get all sorts of other problems there.
12:20SPEAKERUefi? Uefi?
12:22SPEAKERLet's just stick with UEFI.
12:24SPEAKERUEFI. It's just kind of comes out all gooey.
12:27SPEAKERI wrote I wrote UEFI slash boot shell, if you know what I'm talking about.
12:30SPEAKERThere is a Uefi. See, I still can't get it out.
12:33SPEAKERThere is a UEFI shell that you can boot into.
12:35SPEAKERI don't know if you're familiar with.
12:36SPEAKEROh, yeah. The thing that you can use to like it basically lets you set
12:39SPEAKERlike the master boot record and all that,
12:40SPEAKERlike the equivalent of the master boot record if you so desire.
12:43SPEAKERAre you going to like flash hardware from there and stuff like that?
12:45SPEAKERIt's kind of like a DOS shell without DOS, like it boots straight out of the BIOS.
12:49SPEAKERSo it lets you manage the low level stuff of the UEFI.
12:53SPEAKERI've never actually used that.
12:54SPEAKERI've never come up for me.
12:55SPEAKERI've had to use it a couple of times.
12:56SPEAKERIt's it's it's interesting, but confusing.
12:57SPEAKERWell, we'll get into number 11 after that kind of related modern BIOS
13:02SPEAKERis what we ended up calling this in parentheses support for input devices,
13:06SPEAKERnetwork backing up firmware, et cetera, et cetera.
13:10SPEAKERYeah, I think we've both at different times in our lives had to pull a BIOS
13:13SPEAKERchip off of a board and replace it with another one that was working.
13:17SPEAKERYes. So, yeah, there's a lot of stuff
13:18SPEAKERthat means you never have to do that anymore, which is nice. Yes.
13:21SPEAKERAfter that bootable USB operating system installers.
13:25SPEAKEROh, OK. So this is this is where we should talk about the type like the where this
13:29SPEAKERwhat the scope of this category, which is from the time you start
13:34SPEAKERputting the computer together until like windows and drivers are installed.
13:38SPEAKERRight. Yes, sure.
13:39SPEAKERI have to I'm sorry.
13:40SPEAKERI have to digress when you said category for a second.
13:43SPEAKERA cold chill ran down my spine
13:46SPEAKERbecause that implies there will also be other categories.
13:49SPEAKERWell, Brad, what do you mean next week?
13:51SPEAKERWe're going to talk about biggest failures.
13:53SPEAKERWhat do you mean we're doing this for a week straight?
13:54SPEAKERMisses. Yeah. Yes. Yes.
13:58SPEAKERWhat you said that is the general scope scope of this thing.
14:03SPEAKERLet's see. Next, cheap overnight shipping.
14:06SPEAKERTiny cases slash tiny computers.
14:09SPEAKERUSB power as universal.
14:13SPEAKERAnd there's some interesting stuff I didn't think of in here,
14:15SPEAKERhaving a phone with a Web browser and flashlight.
14:20SPEAKERFront panel connector.
14:22SPEAKEROK, connectors, sorry.
14:25SPEAKERWireless stuff that works, question mark.
14:29SPEAKERTroubleshooting features that are directly on the motherboard.
14:33SPEAKERHoles in cases for wire routing and accessing on troubleshooting
14:37SPEAKERfeatures that directly in the motherboard are things like diagnostic lights.
14:41SPEAKERYes, exactly. Exactly.
14:43SPEAKERI figured I would expand on that when we got there.
14:44SPEAKERBut yes, exactly.
14:45SPEAKERAlthough that one, I feel like doesn't
14:47SPEAKERI feel like that one came and went for me.
14:49SPEAKERLike, I don't have as much of that stuff I used to
14:52SPEAKERholes in cases for wire routing
14:54SPEAKERand accessing the back of the CPU mount and water cooling, et cetera.
14:58SPEAKERWater cooling, chunky air cooling.
15:02SPEAKERFan speed control hardware, glass doors on cases with fancy lights.
15:07SPEAKERWindows update installing basic drivers.
15:10SPEAKERHold on. Glass doors on cases with fans.
15:12SPEAKERNo, it doesn't work. Never mind.
15:13SPEAKEROh, oh, no. Sorry. Sorry.
15:15SPEAKERNice. Good effort.
15:18SPEAKERI appreciate it.
15:20SPEAKERIs that well, well, I'll read the rest of the list
15:23SPEAKERbefore I ask questions about stuff.
15:25SPEAKERAuto updating driver installers not having to activate windows to install it.
15:29SPEAKERThat's a I really took that for granted until you wrote that down.
15:34SPEAKERConsolidation of external cards and hardware
15:36SPEAKERonto the motherboard, like ethernet, Wi-Fi, sound and graphics headlamps.
15:41SPEAKERStill got to get one of those.
15:43SPEAKERDecline of the pizza box form factor.
15:47SPEAKERThat's a that's a sad one.
15:48SPEAKERI would cut that right off the bat.
15:50SPEAKERThat makes me sad.
15:51SPEAKERLook, my first two computers were pizza box cases.
15:54SPEAKERI had an AST Pentium 60 and I'm weighing 386.
15:57SPEAKERLet me let me let me distinguish here.
15:59SPEAKERAre we talking is is any desktop format considered pizza box for you?
16:03SPEAKEROr does it have to be thin like a pizza box?
16:05SPEAKERIt has to be flat. Well, so those weren't thin.
16:07SPEAKERThey were probably five inches thick, right?
16:08SPEAKERSo, yeah, I'm thinking I'm thinking the kind of the Packard Bell
16:12SPEAKERCompaq era of big, thick, fat desktop.
16:16SPEAKERLike for me, it's if you put your monitor on top of the case.
16:20SPEAKERAnd remember, we're not talking about flat panels back then,
16:22SPEAKERwe're talking about a 40 pound CRT, probably so like.
16:27SPEAKERA, the cases were difficult to work in and B, having the fact
16:32SPEAKERthe fact that you put your monitor on top of it made it even more difficult to work.
16:35SPEAKERAnd so you had to lift the monitor off, find some place to put it, put it on,
16:38SPEAKERand then you take disconnect.
16:39SPEAKEREverything usually had to move the monitor before you could disconnect it
16:42SPEAKERbecause you couldn't reach around behind there to get to it.
16:44SPEAKERAnd then you had to take it apart.
16:46SPEAKERAnd those cases sucked so bad to work in.
16:49SPEAKERIt was already the era of shitty cases,
16:51SPEAKERbut those were even worse because of the form factor.
16:53SPEAKERI mean, yeah, how reinforced were those cases
16:56SPEAKERthat you were putting big, thick CRTs on top of those things?
16:59SPEAKERIt's funny you say that, Brad.
17:00SPEAKERIt's usually because they had a steel bar that went across the top middle of the case
17:03SPEAKERthat made it even more inconvenient to get into the places.
17:06SPEAKERSo you had to open the case and you'd have to take that bar out.
17:09SPEAKERAnd then there was usually some sort of shroud around the rest of it.
17:11SPEAKERThere was like an E.M. shroud, although sometimes that was built
17:14SPEAKERinto the top of the case, and it was like
17:17SPEAKERlike swapping a video card or a sound card or something like that.
17:20SPEAKERI was usually like a 15 minute process.
17:22SPEAKERIt was it was it was a lot.
17:23SPEAKERIt was hairy. Should should I?
17:25SPEAKERWell, this is kind of this is kind of restating the same thing.
17:27SPEAKERShould I change this to tower cases in general?
17:31SPEAKERI mean, I guess that's the positive way to put this.
17:33SPEAKERSure. The rise of the tower case.
17:35SPEAKERThe thing I want to say, though, is build friendly cases.
17:38SPEAKEROK. That kind of rolls into like smooth ages.
17:40SPEAKERI don't mean cases like that, though.
17:42SPEAKERThere's there's some other items on here that would all roll up into that.
17:44SPEAKERThe one thing I want to say about pizza boxes, like when you say pizza box,
17:47SPEAKERI think of the actually only like kind of two, three inches high type like my.
17:51SPEAKERThose also were bad.
17:52SPEAKEROh, I've kind of I've got a soft spot for like my university had computer labs
17:56SPEAKERfull of sun spark stations that are just these thin little like
17:59SPEAKERthey're almost just like thin client kind of dummy like dumb terminal type things
18:03SPEAKERlike you just you know, they're all running Solaris and you just sat down
18:06SPEAKERand logged into your shell account and then you're all your stuff
18:08SPEAKERcame up off the network.
18:09SPEAKERAnd I've got a they were just they were just dumb terminals.
18:12SPEAKERThey were they were extra boxes.
18:14SPEAKERYeah, that's the best I can tell.
18:15SPEAKERThey were sort of penny.
18:16SPEAKERWell, they would have been until at that point, would they?
18:19SPEAKERSo they would have been something they would be their own CPUs.
18:22SPEAKERSomeone was making their own stuff, but they were like, you know,
18:24SPEAKER166 megahertz chips at that time.
18:26SPEAKERAnd they were pretty weak, pretty underpowered.
18:29SPEAKERAnd you just brought all your stuff up off the network.
18:31SPEAKERI got a soft spot for those that 90s era, like.
18:35SPEAKERKind of Silicon Valley workstation.
18:37SPEAKERYou know, did you open one of those up, Brad? Zero.
18:40SPEAKERYep. That's why you like them. OK, fine.
18:42SPEAKERI just like the way they look.
18:43SPEAKERI think that. But, you know, I just don't generally think the idea
18:46SPEAKERof the thin client dumb terminal is kind of cool in general.
18:49SPEAKERLook, we're back there, man.
18:51SPEAKERWhat do you think cloud computing is? That's right. That's right.
18:53SPEAKERJust got to fill, fill your house computer in every room
18:56SPEAKERbecause it's all actually just one computer.
18:58SPEAKERShould we go down this list and pull out the things we think are absolute keepers
19:03SPEAKERor should we get rid of the ones that we think are absolute losers?
19:05SPEAKERSpeaking speaking from experience, I say that you mark the keepers
19:09SPEAKERlater in the process.
19:10SPEAKERYou don't want to because as soon as you do that,
19:12SPEAKEReverything else is just automatically discarded.
19:14SPEAKERAnd then there's a lot less to talk about. OK, let's see here.
19:21SPEAKERI should I. OK, I'm going to change.
19:23SPEAKERYeah, change that to like change it to two tower cases or something.
19:26SPEAKERYeah. Tower slash build friendly cases.
19:31SPEAKEROK, but I think that's toward the bottom.
19:33SPEAKERProbably. I don't know if that hangs.
19:35SPEAKERIf that hang well, man, towers.
19:37SPEAKERThe first tower I ever saw was towers.
19:39SPEAKEROh, you know what? I shouldn't even say that our first family computer was a tower.
19:43SPEAKERThat's yeah. OK, we got our first computer late enough that it was a tower.
19:47SPEAKERSo maybe that doesn't hang for me, actually.
19:51SPEAKERLet's see, I think there's a bunch on here
19:54SPEAKERthat could all roll up like water cooling, but thick air coolers,
19:58SPEAKERbut also fan speed on control hardware like those are all kind of.
20:03SPEAKEROf a piece on a list that's going to have a pretty limited number of items,
20:06SPEAKERI don't know that like a bunch of different case items are all going to make it.
20:09SPEAKERWe're looking for 10, by the way, right?
20:11SPEAKERSure. Yes, I think I think I could bundle
20:13SPEAKERall of the case enhancements up into one one thing like
20:17SPEAKERif you never built a PC in a case before they started smoothing
20:21SPEAKERrounding the edges out on the die stamped metal.
20:24SPEAKERYeah, you you like you couldn't.
20:28SPEAKERBut look, when I started maximum PC, we were still getting those cases in
20:31SPEAKERand all the OEMs were still shipping like Compaq and HP
20:34SPEAKERand all those people were still shipping machines with that stuff.
20:36SPEAKERAnd when you had to open one of those up,
20:38SPEAKERyou would get a bazillion tiny cuts all over your hands every single time.
20:42SPEAKERIt was it was it was almost impossible, not quite impossible,
20:45SPEAKERbut damn close to work in one of those things and not cut yourself somehow.
20:48SPEAKERLike I would I would in that era, I would routinely open my computer up later
20:52SPEAKERand just see a little red spots on the on the metal here.
20:55SPEAKERIt's like, oh, I guess I guess that's where I cut myself last time.
20:58SPEAKERI think when when we did one of those builds it tested,
21:01SPEAKEReven I think I cut myself. Oh, no, it was when I did the
21:04SPEAKERI did a PC building race at CES couple of years. Oh, wow.
21:07SPEAKERAnd I cut myself and was just pouring blood into the case
21:10SPEAKERthe whole fucking time case, unless you're taking it home with you.
21:13SPEAKERNo, we've got some elementary school someplace.
21:14SPEAKEROh, no, that's terrible.
21:16SPEAKERThey said they were going to clean it out.
21:18SPEAKERBut the camera people loved it because I was like in the in the far away
21:21SPEAKERin the lead and was driving all over the place.
21:24SPEAKERThat's drama. This guy's not even gonna let these injuries stop.
21:27SPEAKERAnd what what era was that?
21:28SPEAKERLike what type of computers we talking early?
21:30SPEAKERProbably like 2008. It was a Tiger Direct did it.
21:32SPEAKERSo it was using their shitty, their cheap cases.
21:35SPEAKERThat's relatively recent, but they were still bad.
21:37SPEAKERThose cases were still bad then like.
21:39SPEAKERWell, the thing is, if you buy a 15 dollar case, it's still going to be like that.
21:42SPEAKERNow, you can buy a really cheap case
21:44SPEAKERthat's going to have all the same problems that 90s cases had.
21:46SPEAKERIf you spend 100 bucks on a Cooler Master or Leon Lee or or or, you know,
21:52SPEAKERwhatever you pick your favorite like boutique builder brand,
21:56SPEAKERyou'll get a better case.
21:57SPEAKERYeah, partial to fractal these days. Fractal is great.
22:01SPEAKERI mean, maybe the maybe this maybe this category is
22:05SPEAKERbuilder like enthusiast friendly cases.
22:07SPEAKERI think I think like you're the way you put like build
22:10SPEAKERfriendly cases is probably the most succinct way to put it.
22:13SPEAKERYeah, but but that also includes like thumb screws
22:16SPEAKERand the holes in the back of the case and all that stuff.
22:20SPEAKERSmooth edges on. Yes.
22:23SPEAKERSo should I just take those off?
22:24SPEAKERThose are those are inclusive. Just nest them under there.
22:27SPEAKERWe have a nested list.
22:29SPEAKERYou can tab that in. Big shout out to thumb screws, though.
22:31SPEAKERAnd, you know, I'm back and forth on those screws because they're usually
22:34SPEAKERmilled aluminum, which means my my my my my magnetic screwdriver
22:38SPEAKERdoesn't work on them.
22:40SPEAKERAnd sometimes it's better to have a steel screw that is ferrous
22:43SPEAKERand that you can stick on the end of a screwdriver and jam in there.
22:46SPEAKERI mean, that's why that's why like your motherboard screws aren't aren't magnetic.
22:50SPEAKERI mean, aren't aluminum thumbs usually.
22:53SPEAKERWell, let me ask a related question.
22:55SPEAKERIs it definitely safe to be waving a magnetic screwdriver around in there?
22:58SPEAKEROK, 100 percent, especially now.
23:00SPEAKEROK, how many platter disks do you have?
23:03SPEAKERThat's my real question.
23:04SPEAKERAm I just am I just like
23:05SPEAKERextrapolating my paranoia about magnets and hard drives out to all computer stuff?
23:09SPEAKERYeah, it may have mattered in like like it may that may have mattered in the 80s.
23:13SPEAKERIt doesn't early 90s.
23:14SPEAKERIt doesn't definitely like we exclusively use magnetic screwdrivers
23:19SPEAKERand maximum PC for years. Never once had a problem. OK.
23:23SPEAKERI we even tested Gordon tested it at some point.
23:26SPEAKERI don't remember. I don't remember.
23:27SPEAKERI'm sure the outcome was the same because we kept using them. But yeah,
23:30SPEAKERthe one place I absolutely cannot live without some screws
23:33SPEAKERis just straight up on the back of the case.
23:34SPEAKERLike, yeah, just being able to get into your case
23:37SPEAKERwithout having to find a screwdriver is is so huge back of the case.
23:41SPEAKERI kind of feel like some of the cards, like the especially empty slots.
23:46SPEAKERI don't really like it on the video card when you have a two slot video card
23:48SPEAKERbecause that middle that middle hole that's usually
23:51SPEAKERI only do one of the screws on the on the two slot video card.
23:54SPEAKERI do the middle one, and that one's hard to hit with the thumb screw often
23:57SPEAKERfor whatever reason, because you have to kind of squeeze.
23:59SPEAKERYou got to get two hands in there. Yes, that's that's true.
24:01SPEAKERWhy do you only why do you not do both?
24:03SPEAKERBecause it doesn't you don't need to put two is better than one, though.
24:07SPEAKERBut like what's going to be like,
24:10SPEAKERare you putting your PC on a paint shaker or something?
24:13SPEAKERWhat are you going to do, man?
24:14SPEAKERLet's do it. Trust me, it'll be fine.
24:17SPEAKERYou can run the video card just dangling a little bit.
24:19SPEAKERI mean, you're talking to somebody
24:20SPEAKERwho is probably going to set up a second pie hole this weekend.
24:24SPEAKERIt's redundancy for the first one.
24:26SPEAKERYou fall over pie hole? Yes.
24:29SPEAKERHigh availability. That's the name of the game.
24:31SPEAKEROK, OK. So build friendly cases and we'll roll up
24:36SPEAKERthose through smooth edges.
24:41SPEAKEROh, you got you beat me.
24:43SPEAKERI'm trying to see if there's anything else on here that falls in cases
24:46SPEAKERfor wire routing slash access in the back of the CPU mount.
24:49SPEAKERThat's pretty good. My my fractal was a define R6.
24:54SPEAKERI think is the one I've got.
24:55SPEAKERLike it's got most of the routing for also like the CPU and motherboard power,
24:59SPEAKERlike all the power that plugs straight into the motherboard.
25:02SPEAKERI'm trying to think like there are SSD mounts behind the motherboard.
25:06SPEAKERThere's a lot of cable routing for like SATA cables and stuff.
25:09SPEAKERI'm trying to think what else like like a shocking amount lives
25:12SPEAKERbehind the motherboard now.
25:13SPEAKERRemember, like back in the day, there wasn't even really a lot of provision
25:16SPEAKERfor taking that other panel off the side, the one behind the board,
25:19SPEAKERbecause usually you only did that to put a hard drive in or an optical drive.
25:23SPEAKERRight. Like you almost never took that second panel off.
25:25SPEAKERAnd and like the thing the thing that was weird about that was you didn't have
25:32SPEAKERif you wanted to do something like change the CPU cooler,
25:35SPEAKERyou usually had to take the motherboard out
25:37SPEAKERfor if it had a back plate that was screwed in from the back. Yes.
25:40SPEAKERSo having those holes in the bottom is incredibly useful.
25:44SPEAKERAnd so there's so much time.
25:45SPEAKERThat is a great, great, great design innovation.
25:49SPEAKERIt is just barely counterbalanced by the cursed power supply shroud.
25:55SPEAKERWhich I feel like is look, we're talking about worse stuff today.
25:58SPEAKERThat's a different that's a different episode.
25:59SPEAKERI have I have developed a real strong dislike of the power supply shroud recently.
26:06SPEAKERIt's funny, I've been using the same.
26:08SPEAKERI have like three of the same cooler master case from 10 years ago now.
26:11SPEAKERThey don't make them anymore.
26:13SPEAKERI'm a little sad because like now I have USB.
26:16SPEAKERI think I have USB three points, but I don't have any USB C ports on the front.
26:20SPEAKERAnd at some point I'll have to replace them.
26:22SPEAKERBut I I've yeah, I started down that path last year and I was like,
26:26SPEAKERno, I like these. These are good.
26:28SPEAKERThey're nondescript.
26:30SPEAKERYeah, I like that the case.
26:31SPEAKERI like it to look like a refrigerator. Yeah.
26:34SPEAKEROK. You know, I want to mention I got to get I digress for a second.
26:39SPEAKERI have got to give a shout out to see Sonic on on this podcast. OK.
26:43SPEAKERI promise no power supplies. None of this stuff is paid.
26:45SPEAKERLike this is just passion for well-made products
26:47SPEAKERthat are sold by people that seem to care about their customers.
26:52SPEAKERI've got a it's probably a seven year old power supply at this point.
26:56SPEAKERYeah. Long discontinued model like they don't even list it.
26:58SPEAKERI think it's like there's still a listing buried on their site
27:01SPEAKERfor like support legacy reasons or whatever.
27:03SPEAKERBut like they haven't made this power supply in a very long time.
27:06SPEAKERI got that 3080.
27:08SPEAKERThey were offering like a custom 12 pin, you know, for the new Nvidia
27:12SPEAKERpower connector like it wasn't even in the dropdown list on their website
27:16SPEAKERof supported models, like they wanted to send like proof of purchase
27:20SPEAKERand serial number and all this stuff off of your power supply
27:22SPEAKERand they would send you the twelve pin cable.
27:24SPEAKERYeah, I just wrote their support.
27:25SPEAKERI was like, hey, I've got this very old model.
27:27SPEAKERAlso, I don't have any purchase anymore.
27:30SPEAKERIs there any way I can get in on this?
27:31SPEAKERAnd they were like, yeah, just drop the photo of the serial number
27:33SPEAKERon the power supply in and fill out the form. It'll be fine.
27:37SPEAKERWell, that's awesome.
27:38SPEAKERAnd a month later, straight from Taiwan, shipped internationally for free.
27:43SPEAKERA proper because, you know, the 3080s come with an adapter,
27:46SPEAKERso you have to like kind of have this big gangly.
27:48SPEAKERYeah, but I have like a dangling thing that's weird looking up there.
27:50SPEAKERYeah, it's like just kind of a case mess to use that adapter that it comes with.
27:53SPEAKERIt works. But so but anyway,
27:55SPEAKERthis is just a 12 pin that plugs straight into your power supply.
27:57SPEAKERThat's awesome.
27:58SPEAKERLike not even really a supported product anymore.
28:01SPEAKERLong, long out of warranty and still like internationally shipped me
28:04SPEAKERthis cable for free.
28:05SPEAKERThat was like that's like that is like lifelong customer retention stuff.
28:08SPEAKERLike I could not believe that they that they did that. That was so cool.
28:12SPEAKERThat's fabulous. Anyway.
28:13SPEAKEROK, sorry. Sorry to ramble.
28:14SPEAKERSorry to talk about modular power supplies.
28:16SPEAKERI think modular power supplies is high on this list.
28:18SPEAKERWhen they started making this, people were very skeptical.
28:22SPEAKERAnd then they go, oh, yeah, interesting.
28:25SPEAKERI did well, because like there was worried that there was there was concern
28:27SPEAKERthat adding of connectors on both ends of the cable
28:31SPEAKERand not having it soldered directly and was going to add signal noise,
28:34SPEAKERwhich was going to cause problems with overclocking and stuff like that.
28:37SPEAKERThis is why I love having you come from that magazine background,
28:39SPEAKERbecause you know what kind of, quote unquote, people were saying
28:41SPEAKERwhen these things came out, I was like, I just like saw him show up on Newegg.
28:45SPEAKERI was like, oh, that's cool. I'll buy one of those. Sure.
28:47SPEAKERLook, the other thing you have to remember about,
28:49SPEAKERespecially that era of the PC enthusiast community, was that
28:52SPEAKERit was a bunch of old guys who were all skeptical of any fucking change at all.
28:55SPEAKEROf course. So like when when a new motherboard port would come out,
29:00SPEAKERthey were like, oh, this PCI Express thing is nowhere near as good as AGP.
29:03SPEAKERAnd then like three months later, everybody's using PCI Express.
29:05SPEAKERThis is the worst thing to do. Of course.
29:08SPEAKERBut I think modular PSU is real. Yes.
29:11SPEAKERJust not having to have the extra wires that you don't need.
29:15SPEAKERIt cuts down so much on the mess. Yeah. Yeah. It's really good
29:20SPEAKERto stop putting them in shrouds so I can actually work on them.
29:23SPEAKERI mean, how often do you work on your PSU, though?
29:25SPEAKERI am just extra salty because I've added so much to my PC over the last year
29:30SPEAKERbecause my PC is now my work machine, basically. Yeah.
29:32SPEAKERSo like I I bet I've I've had that PC open
29:37SPEAKERand I had to plug something in a power supply like four times in the last year.
29:41SPEAKERAnd every time it gets worse.
29:42SPEAKERSo anyway, yeah, modular PSU's is like probably lock for the top 10.
29:48SPEAKERI'm going to move build friendly cases up toward the top two.
29:51SPEAKERI think. Yeah, I think let's put that at at number two right now.
29:55SPEAKERAnd we can put stuff between that and power supplies if we need to. Bold.
30:01SPEAKERWhat do you want to do? USB?
30:03SPEAKERSo I think I want to make my case here.
30:07SPEAKEROK, well, the thing I said before we started was I feel like that one's
30:10SPEAKERoverly broad and we need to say what about USB we would be including.
30:14SPEAKERBut you said you had an argument.
30:15SPEAKERSo I think having a universal connector for external components
30:19SPEAKERand power is incredibly useful. Hmm. You're right.
30:23SPEAKERI think being able to plug everything from, say, a bootable thumb drive
30:27SPEAKERto a flash card reader to a light to shine inside my PC
30:33SPEAKERand to the same port on the computer and having like 10 of those versus
30:37SPEAKERone of each of a bunch of bazillion different weirdo ones like parallel
30:40SPEAKERand serial is powerful, useful and very good.
30:43SPEAKERI've made this argument before.
30:45SPEAKERHow about a little desk fan?
30:47SPEAKERYeah, a little desk fan's great.
30:48SPEAKERI have a little desk fan. It's nice.
30:50SPEAKERYou know, when I went to conferences, you got stuff like that all the time.
30:53SPEAKERI had one with a mister on it, too, which seemed like a bad idea. Huh?
30:57SPEAKERYeah, I think originally I had written like USB replacing serial and parallel ports.
31:01SPEAKERYeah, but it's so much more than that, isn't it?
31:03SPEAKERI guess it is. Yeah.
31:04SPEAKERI mean, at this point, you get a PCI Express level connection
31:07SPEAKERto your computer through a USB port, through an external port.
31:10SPEAKERSure. It's the same form factor as we've been using for 20 years.
31:13SPEAKERThat's amazing. That's magic.
31:14SPEAKERIt does. It does a lot.
31:15SPEAKERI'm just kind of looking at it from the historical context.
31:17SPEAKERAlso, I think I am conflating plug and play with USB in my head,
31:21SPEAKEReven though plug and play is kind of more of an operating system thing
31:23SPEAKERthan a hardware thing.
31:23SPEAKERYeah, that's a different that's a different.
31:25SPEAKERBut there are two sides of the same technology idea.
31:28SPEAKERBut right, right.
31:29SPEAKERBut but in my mind, like thinking back, like, you know,
31:31SPEAKERanytime you plug something into a serial or a parallel port, the
31:34SPEAKERthen the other shoe would drop and you would have to configure it.
31:37SPEAKERYeah, which was worse.
31:39SPEAKERRight. Like that's the part.
31:41SPEAKERThat's the part that is so much more convenient to me
31:43SPEAKERis that like you just plug the thing in the USB and go, that's it.
31:47SPEAKERYeah, I'm just saying USB is real good.
31:49SPEAKERYeah, sure. I mean, you know,
31:52SPEAKERwhat if it had been reversible from day one?
31:54SPEAKERLook, could we could could could you make Michelangelo's David better?
32:00SPEAKERYeah, sure. Probably dude, you've got strong feelings about USB.
32:03SPEAKERI think USB is fucking awesome.
32:05SPEAKERI don't know if I'm willing to follow you all the way.
32:07SPEAKERI spent a lot of time.
32:08SPEAKERLike I have a space orb that plugged into a serial port
32:10SPEAKERand getting that thing to work on a new computer was always a pain in the ass.
32:13SPEAKERI believe it external modems, all of that stuff. There was a.
32:18SPEAKERYeah, I mean, USB obviously is probably going to be a strong contender here.
32:25SPEAKERYou put moving away from DVI, which given the problems
32:28SPEAKERI've had with DisplayPort in the last few months,
32:30SPEAKERI feel like is the wrong direction because I would.
32:33SPEAKERYes, I get the arguments. DVI is too slow.
32:35SPEAKERIt doesn't support modern, you know, high resolution, high refresh combos.
32:39SPEAKERBut that's not my argument.
32:41SPEAKERMy argument is that the physical DVI connector is bad.
32:45SPEAKERThat's not great.
32:46SPEAKERI mean, it's just kind of like slightly more modern VGA, D-sub,
32:49SPEAKERwhatever you want to call it.
32:50SPEAKERNope, it's bad. It's got like 90 pins.
32:52SPEAKERIf you if you scratch, if one of them gets out of alignment,
32:56SPEAKEReven in the slightest, you can't use the cable anymore.
32:59SPEAKERJust bend it back. What could go wrong?
33:01SPEAKERI'm also sometimes they lock on, and when you pull it,
33:06SPEAKERthe shroud comes off and you end up with just the stump in the in the port.
33:11SPEAKERYes, I've seen that.
33:12SPEAKERIt's like it's a it was.
33:15SPEAKERHey, let's take the VGA cable and make it digital, which was good, I guess.
33:20SPEAKERI don't know, maybe not.
33:21SPEAKERAnd then let's also make it incredibly prone to failure and fiddly.
33:25SPEAKERAnd also, we're going to have four different versions of it.
33:28SPEAKERYes. Right. Actually, the what is a DVI I and DVI D, I think DVI
33:33SPEAKERI was both analog and digital on the same cable.
33:36SPEAKERDVI A was analog only and DVI D was digital only.
33:40SPEAKERIn reality, I don't think there ever were very many DVI A cables.
33:44SPEAKERBut then there was also the dual link one, which had twice as many pins to break,
33:48SPEAKERbut could go for resolutions up to like 25, 60 by 1600 or something like that.
33:52SPEAKERYes. It's a bad spec.
33:55SPEAKERLike like the good thing about it was it wasn't encrypted.
33:57SPEAKERIt doesn't it doesn't have any of the two way communication
34:00SPEAKERbullshit that the modern HDMI DVI display port have.
34:03SPEAKERThat's the that's the stuff I'm getting at that I kind of miss about it
34:06SPEAKERis that it was just a dumb connector.
34:07SPEAKERLike, yeah, you've got like display port.
34:10SPEAKERSo maybe moving away from DVI was good, even though
34:14SPEAKERsome of the standards we ended up moving to are also not great.
34:18SPEAKERBut that's a separate it's a separate topic is what I mean, because I can.
34:21SPEAKERYeah, like display ports got like hot plug issues
34:24SPEAKERand like different kind of sync issues and there are like.
34:27SPEAKERCheap cables on there are cheap cables on the market
34:29SPEAKERthat are not configured properly in terms of the pins that are connected.
34:33SPEAKERAnd there can be there can be massive problems there with with having a bad
34:36SPEAKERcable, like all kinds of bad, like, quote unquote, smart features.
34:40SPEAKERAlso, the locking thing on display port. Oh, it's terrible. Yeah.
34:44SPEAKERI just had to replace a twenty dollar display port
34:46SPEAKERone point four cable because the locking mechanism broke on it. Uh huh.
34:50SPEAKERIt's yes. Yeah, it's bad.
34:52SPEAKERIt sucks, man. I hate it.
34:55SPEAKERYou know what I like, though?
34:56SPEAKERI hate HDMI is great.
34:57SPEAKERYeah. Like I can't wait for HDMI 2.1 to just be on all all, you know,
35:01SPEAKERall video cards and monitors and we can just forget display port ever existed.
35:04SPEAKERI mean, that rollout hasn't been super smooth either, though.
35:07SPEAKERThe number of people I see asking questions about, hey, why does my Xbox
35:10SPEAKERnot work with HDR and high frame rates on my fancy as TV is very high.
35:15SPEAKERIt's the curse of backwards compatible cable standards.
35:18SPEAKERYeah. But on the other hand, being able to plug your PC
35:22SPEAKERinto your TV so you can tell if it's your monitor that's broken
35:24SPEAKERor the or the computer that's really useful. These God actually.
35:30SPEAKERI would almost replace the DVI thing with the standardization of HDMI.
35:34SPEAKERGod, this is the wordy this is a wordy item. Yeah.
35:37SPEAKERMaybe we can condense it.
35:38SPEAKERBut like standardizing HDMI as a connector across monitors, graphics cards, TVs,
35:43SPEAKEReverything like like you said, like letting a TV be a PC monitor is insane.
35:48SPEAKERWell, because back in the day, like like you said,
35:50SPEAKERif something happened to anything in the chain between your graphics card
35:54SPEAKERand your monitor, like you were
35:55SPEAKERkind of screwed because you couldn't hook it up to anything else. Right.
35:57SPEAKERBut now, yeah, you can.
35:58SPEAKERYeah, like you said, you can just plug your PC into your TV and that's crazy.
36:01SPEAKERWell, so let's let's can we can we go one layer deeper here
36:05SPEAKERand think about like the first time I built a computer was 1994, I think,
36:11SPEAKERmaybe 1995, and I only had the one computer and I had bought everything
36:16SPEAKERbut a new hard drive because I just replaced the hard drive in my old computer.
36:19SPEAKERSo I kept the old computer on to look up the instructions
36:23SPEAKERon how to build the computer in Tom's hardware to supplement my boot magazine,
36:27SPEAKERhow to build a computer copy.
36:29SPEAKERAnd when I got to the point that I had to pop the hard drive
36:32SPEAKERinto the new computer, I had to turn off the old computer and disconnect it.
36:36SPEAKERAnd thus ended my connection to the Internet until the new computer
36:39SPEAKERwas up and running. Yeah.
36:41SPEAKERSo like having a phone that you can go look stuff up on
36:46SPEAKERand download download PDFs and whatever and troubleshoot search forms
36:50SPEAKERfor troubleshooting advice when stuff doesn't work,
36:52SPEAKEReven if it's your only computer that's still running incredibly useful.
36:56SPEAKERLike being able like the like, there's an ecosystem of devices
37:00SPEAKERthat makes building computers easier now that's outside of the scope
37:03SPEAKERof the computer you're actually building.
37:05SPEAKERAnd that's like the TV fits into that.
37:07SPEAKERThe phone fits into that.
37:08SPEAKERThe fact that probably you have a laptop around your house somewhere.
37:10SPEAKERThe kid has an iPad or something like kind of Internet Internet connected
37:13SPEAKEReverything, I would say, because like I have the same experience in the late 90s
37:16SPEAKERdownloading Slackware, which is one of the very early Linux distros.
37:19SPEAKERYeah. On like putting it on floppy disk and installing it from floppy disk
37:23SPEAKERon my only computer. Yep.
37:25SPEAKERI mean, when you fuck that up, you had to reinstall Windows, right?
37:27SPEAKERI had modem based Internet access.
37:29SPEAKERBut when you install Linux on your only computer and nothing works,
37:32SPEAKERexcept that you're just you're sitting at a bash prompt with no idea what to do.
37:36SPEAKERLike all you can do is format the hard drive again and go back to Windows,
37:39SPEAKERbecause, yeah, there's no laptop you can pull out and look up.
37:41SPEAKERHey, how do we use Linux?
37:42SPEAKERSo like, I don't know what we would call that.
37:46SPEAKERThat got really broad because I think.
37:50SPEAKERYou're right, DVI sucks, but I think there are better ways to phrase this.
37:53SPEAKERLike, I think the HDMI thing into TV is really good.
37:56SPEAKERBut I also think the thing you said about like kind of having resources,
37:59SPEAKERresources for sort of building and using the computer
38:03SPEAKERthat exist outside the computer.
38:05SPEAKERYeah, I don't know how to play that.
38:07SPEAKERMaybe just put it stuff like not in the computer, right?
38:09SPEAKERIt's like everything but the computer.
38:12SPEAKEROK, well, because like having being able to lay on the floor
38:16SPEAKERand look at the motherboard postcode on the little motherboard screen
38:19SPEAKERand be like, OK, I'm getting CF here, what is this one?
38:22SPEAKERAnd go to the ASUS website and look up what the CF postcode means
38:26SPEAKERwhile I'm on the floor instead of having to go like phone my friend who's like,
38:30SPEAKERhey, man, can you look up on the Internet what this postcode means?
38:33SPEAKERBecause I don't know what this one does.
38:34SPEAKERIt's not in the manual.
38:35SPEAKERAnd like, I don't I don't know what's wrong.
38:38SPEAKERAnd then it turns out it's just one
38:39SPEAKERstick of memories kind of half hanging out of the slot.
38:42SPEAKERYeah, that's huge.
38:44SPEAKERYeah, I do. It does occur to me as we are making this list.
38:46SPEAKERThis is this is how you end up with things on your list where somebody
38:49SPEAKERwho's just looking at the list for the first time is like,
38:50SPEAKERwhat the hell does that mean or where did that come from?
38:52SPEAKERWe'll have to write a magazine article that goes with this.
38:54SPEAKERYeah, everything on my sub stack.
38:58SPEAKERLet's see. I'm going to say, where is it?
39:03SPEAKERKind of related to what you're talking about.
39:05SPEAKERI put this on your troubleshooting features that are directly on the motherboard.
39:08SPEAKERI love that my motherboard has that stuff still.
39:10SPEAKERI love it, but my last two, at least two boards have not really had any of it.
39:14SPEAKERAnd so I kind of want to take it off here because I don't think it's universal enough.
39:17SPEAKERIt's like it's it's a high end feature. It's not a low end.
39:19SPEAKERIt's it's like an overclock or board feature is this is what you're seeing.
39:23SPEAKERSo it's maybe that's another development.
39:25SPEAKERI don't love another trend and PCs that I don't love is the sort of.
39:30SPEAKERThe broadening, the broadening of the motherboard price
39:32SPEAKERfor organization of the organization means, but I think it is kind of that kind of works
39:37SPEAKERlike, you know, like back in the day, like it was hard to buy a two hundred dollar
39:40SPEAKERmotherboard, like you had to buy like something from Tyen
39:43SPEAKERfor servers or something like that, like a dual CPU socket board or something
39:47SPEAKERto get that like motherboards were just like one hundred, one hundred fifteen,
39:50SPEAKERmaybe one hundred fifty bucks tops and that was kind of fancy.
39:53SPEAKERThat was kind of it.
39:54SPEAKERAnd there are like easily six, seven hundred dollar motherboards out there now.
39:57SPEAKERLike, not that you need them for not for normal.
39:59SPEAKERNot even enthusiast boards cap out at like three fifty or four hundred.
40:03SPEAKERBut even that, you know, even even
40:05SPEAKERenthusiast boards at four hundred dollars is like kind of crazy compared to
40:10SPEAKERlet me let me, you know, let me suggest something to you.
40:13SPEAKERThose motherboards have consolidated a lot of different devices now.
40:16SPEAKERSo they have, for example, a network card, which was one hundred bucks
40:20SPEAKERand a sound card, which was one hundred bucks and graphics output
40:23SPEAKERfrom the CPU, which was, you know, one hundred and fifty bucks.
40:27SPEAKERSo, you know, you get a little bit more for your true buck.
40:30SPEAKERBut the cheap motherboards also have all that stuff, too, these days.
40:34SPEAKEROK, that's fair.
40:35SPEAKERBut but, you know, the nice mother board does a better job with the audio routing
40:39SPEAKERso you don't get signal noise if you use them, which nobody does.
40:42SPEAKERSo it doesn't matter.
40:43SPEAKERThat's the thing that is kind of making me come around
40:45SPEAKERon the more expensive motherboards.
40:46SPEAKERA little bit is like people who know saying like, yes, these use better
40:49SPEAKERvoltage regulators, like the components on this board are higher quality.
40:53SPEAKERSo you like stability, longevity, like you said, sort of signal noise,
40:56SPEAKERcrosstalk stuff is going to be cut down like like Brad.
40:59SPEAKERMy mother board has a special port.
41:01SPEAKERI don't know if it does anything, but it's a special port for audio interfaces
41:04SPEAKERthat provides level voltage regulation.
41:07SPEAKERAnd I was hoping that that was going to solve my focus right issues.
41:11SPEAKERBut it didn't. So, you know, it's just but it's yellow.
41:15SPEAKERSo I got that going for me.
41:16SPEAKERFocus right is too ornery for a single port.
41:18SPEAKERYeah, it's it's I look, I'm I agree with you that it's ridiculously
41:23SPEAKERyou can spend four hundred dollars on a mother board.
41:25SPEAKERBut I also feel like, you know, that's it's those those that kind of
41:31SPEAKERthey're building those for people who it's like cars, right?
41:34SPEAKERLike you can buy a Ford Ford Focus, right?
41:38SPEAKERAnd it'll get you to and from work and it's fine.
41:41SPEAKERBut if you care about cars and you want to have something that goes fast,
41:43SPEAKERyou can buy a Tesla Model S or you can buy a
41:47SPEAKERyou can buy a Corvette or or a Ferrari.
41:50SPEAKERAnd for the people that are doing the overclocking, it's awesome
41:56SPEAKERthat those models exist with the crazy voltage regulators
41:59SPEAKERand all the onboard diagnostics and stuff for most.
42:02SPEAKERMost people who buy those boards just want the cool light controller
42:05SPEAKERand like the shit that comes with it.
42:07SPEAKERIt's not sure it's not they're not using the overclocking stuff.
42:10SPEAKERYes, you have made me realize I've got a I've got a gigabyte ultra durable
42:14SPEAKERis the line that it's from, which is they're kind of like middle of the road,
42:17SPEAKERjust like 120 to 150 range, like whatever it's like.
42:21SPEAKERIt's held up for five years. It's fine.
42:23SPEAKERBut you've made me realize that it's basically an economy car.
42:26SPEAKERYeah, like you're basically with your station wagon.
42:28SPEAKERThis is basically the economy coupe or something, the economy sedan
42:31SPEAKERthat I've got. It's not like you're a minivan guy.
42:34SPEAKERIt's fine, Brad. Nobody's judging you.
42:36SPEAKERThis motherboard may not have power windows is what I'm saying.
42:39SPEAKERAnd power locks. I don't know.
42:40SPEAKERYeah. But the stuff I was talking about being on the board, I had a DFI board
42:45SPEAKERabout 15 years ago that had it had a bunch of diagnostic LEDs on it.
42:49SPEAKERIt had power and reset switches on the board.
42:51SPEAKERSo you didn't even have to like run the case leads when you were testing stuff.
42:55SPEAKERLike it had all the things you would need to test and configure it
42:58SPEAKERwithout actually hooking it up to a case. It was so cool.
43:00SPEAKERThat's my board has all of that stuff.
43:02SPEAKEROK, OK. So, I mean, sometimes they listen, Brad.
43:05SPEAKERSometimes they even put them on the back, on the connector panel,
43:07SPEAKERon the ATX connector panel. Wow.
43:09SPEAKERHoly shit. That's yeah. Wow, man.
43:11SPEAKERYeah. Think about it.
43:13SPEAKERWell, it's just right there.
43:15SPEAKERGlad to hear that when you're plugging in a USB something,
43:17SPEAKERyou can accidentally hit that button and turn off the computer.
43:19SPEAKERSurprisingly, that that part maybe they don't do that as much anymore.
43:23SPEAKEROK, well, I'm glad to hear that stuff is still around, but
43:27SPEAKERit not being on every board is kind of a bummer.
43:29SPEAKERSo maybe I would take that off of here.
43:31SPEAKERLook, you got a product differentiate somehow.
43:33SPEAKERThat's true. I'll leave it for now.
43:35SPEAKERWe've cut like three things so far where this is going to be.
43:38SPEAKERThis is bad. OK.
43:42SPEAKERI think so. There's like there's like eight things on here that pertain to cases.
43:46SPEAKERAll right. There is water cooling. There's chunky air coolers.
43:49SPEAKERWell, that's cooling.
43:50SPEAKERThat's not cases. Fan speed control hardware.
43:53SPEAKERI know I'm thinking I'm thinking things that are not electronics,
43:56SPEAKERlike things that are not like things doing compute.
43:59SPEAKEROK, I got I got to I got to roll up here for you with those three things right now.
44:03SPEAKEROK, quiet, quiet.
44:07SPEAKERSure. OK, all those things work together to make your computer quieter, dude.
44:12SPEAKEROK, now. Now you are creating an item after my own heart,
44:17SPEAKERand that's some business like my goal with my computers
44:20SPEAKERis always that I want to take the headphones off and not hear anything.
44:24SPEAKERYes, don't hear it. Is that did we get old?
44:27SPEAKERSo something happens when you go most people don't give a shit about that
44:29SPEAKERbecause you wear headphones. You can't hear anything.
44:31SPEAKERI used to not care about that at some point.
44:34SPEAKERI just realized at one point, like I would rather not hear my computer
44:37SPEAKERthan get an extra 300 megahertz out of it.
44:39SPEAKERYeah, I would like my computer to not crash very much.
44:43SPEAKERAnd I would like to not hear it at all.
44:44SPEAKERYeah, those are my two goals.
44:46SPEAKERStability and noise totally became my priority at some point
44:49SPEAKERwhen it used to just be speed.
44:50SPEAKERIt's because you use your computer for work instead of just playing games now.
44:53SPEAKERYeah, that's part of it for sure.
44:54SPEAKERI just need it to work at all times.
44:56SPEAKERWell, but like, well, I guess what I'm saying is once playing games
44:59SPEAKERon your computer became a thing that you do that's important for your for your work life.
45:03SPEAKERYes, you know, my my capacity for fuckery went way down.
45:06SPEAKERLike, I mean, I can't like I can't I can't even afford to have a game crashing
45:10SPEAKERand not know if it's the game or my overclock, because then I might go say,
45:13SPEAKERhey, this game's not stable and that's not like I can't editorialize
45:16SPEAKERthat's something that I'm not that confident in. Yeah.
45:21SPEAKERLike at this point on my computer, I'm pretty confident of games crashing.
45:24SPEAKERIt's probably the game's fault, and it's unlikely that it's or cosmic radiation.
45:27SPEAKERRight. Like that's always, always danger.
45:29SPEAKERThe one off don't play games on Mars.
45:33SPEAKERI've thought about that.
45:35SPEAKERYeah, right.
45:35SPEAKERThey have to bury their computers deep in the in the Martian tundra.
45:38SPEAKERThey're going to have to bury everything deep in the Martian tundra.
45:42SPEAKERAnybody that lives on Mars is very likely going to be living underground.
45:46SPEAKERHow will Elon Musk mine is Ethereum?
45:48SPEAKERYou know, I don't really care.
45:50SPEAKERHe can do it for it's perfect.
45:52SPEAKERThat's the right answer, as long as he doesn't come back.
45:56SPEAKERQuiet operation is what I wrote there.
45:59SPEAKERThat should be up toward the top.
46:00SPEAKERThat's OK. All right, sure.
46:02SPEAKERI'm just saying, let's let's start scooping stuff up.
46:05SPEAKERSo we, you know, we're down to 25 things ready to shoot.
46:09SPEAKERI'm willing to give up.
46:11SPEAKERI think we should get troubleshooting features directly on the motherboard.
46:15SPEAKERI think that can roll up into modern biases.
46:18SPEAKERMaybe, maybe, you know, I think I think that's it.
46:21SPEAKERBut I don't know. Yeah, I just I think it's an easy one.
46:23SPEAKERCan we remove headlamps?
46:24SPEAKERI think headlamps are awesome, but it's not it's in the context of this list.
46:29SPEAKERIt is not as PC specific as most of the other stuff on here.
46:32SPEAKERSo I just building the computer real easy.
46:34SPEAKERI can see everything you're working on. It's true.
46:37SPEAKERI haven't built a PC without a headlamp on in about 10 years.
46:39SPEAKERAnd I still need to buy one of those. All right.
46:41SPEAKERI'll leave it for now. I'll get you one for Christmas next year.
46:43SPEAKERHow about that?
46:44SPEAKERI think front panel connectors on cases are cool, but I'm like something I have.
46:49SPEAKERWait, why are you you put it on here? Why are you thumbs downing it?
46:52SPEAKERI wanted to thumbs down it. I think that they hang on.
46:55SPEAKERAre you just going to say your piece about it and then we can cut it?
46:57SPEAKERIs that what we're yeah, that's where we're at. Great.
47:00SPEAKERGo ahead. The audio connectors are always noisy.
47:03SPEAKERAnd also nobody uses analog audio connectors anymore, really. Yes.
47:06SPEAKERSo it's actually not just the audio connectors are noisy.
47:09SPEAKERI've found that the USB ports are very unreliable.
47:12SPEAKERThat's the phase two of that was USB two is pretty OK.
47:16SPEAKERUSB three is way noisy, depending on which cables you have.
47:20SPEAKERI've had I've had situations where I plug like a big USB flash
47:23SPEAKERstick into a USB three port on the front and copy a bunch of stuff
47:26SPEAKERand just have the copy fail at random times over and over and over.
47:29SPEAKERLike it's terrible.
47:30SPEAKERI use my front USB ports for game pads and charging shit and nothing else.
47:35SPEAKERSo that sounds about right.
47:36SPEAKERI'll plug a crappy webcam in there if it's not important,
47:40SPEAKERif it's just a casual call or whatever.
47:42SPEAKERLike I'd much rather nano look, you know, what you need is you need
47:44SPEAKERone of these little dongles that has like a micro USB on one end
47:47SPEAKERand and a USB on the other.
47:49SPEAKERIt's just a like a port that I nanotape onto my desk.
47:53SPEAKERIt's just one port. Yes. Yes.
47:55SPEAKERAnd you use that as like the thing that you need to plug and unplug.
47:59SPEAKERSo like my webcam gets plugged into that
48:01SPEAKERbecause I only use my webcam for Zoom calls and talking to you.
48:04SPEAKERThat's smart. And then I unplug it when I'm not using it.
48:06SPEAKERIf I need to plug in my YubiKey to authenticate, I drop that in there and boom,
48:09SPEAKERI'm authenticated. Should probably do that.
48:12SPEAKERYeah. Front panel connectors should go, I think.
48:14SPEAKERI think like I'd much rather have a case that I don't have access to.
48:20SPEAKERThen front panel connectors that are good.
48:22SPEAKERDo you think front panel USB-C ports are going to suffer from the same limitations?
48:26SPEAKERI don't have any idea.
48:27SPEAKEROK, I don't either.
48:28SPEAKERBut my because you mentioned your old cases not having USB-C.
48:31SPEAKERMine actually mine has a modular I/O panel that you can actually
48:35SPEAKERbuy a new one from fractal that has USB-C on it.
48:37SPEAKERAnd I thought about it.
48:38SPEAKERBut then I was like, these USB three ports are already terrible.
48:42SPEAKERIf USB-C is also going to be just as bad.
48:44SPEAKERThere's no reason to buy this.
48:45SPEAKERMy guess is that because of the the like tightness of that USB-C
48:50SPEAKERspec, if you're using it at three point one or higher speeds
48:54SPEAKERis you're going to have problems with front mounted.
48:56SPEAKERYou're going to be better off.
48:58SPEAKERLike your VR headset says to plug in the USB-C port into the back.
49:02SPEAKERNot right to the front.
49:03SPEAKERAll right. I'm not going to buy that panel.
49:05SPEAKERYeah. OK, cut that one.
49:11SPEAKERI think USB power is outside the scope of this.
49:13SPEAKERMaybe. Sure.
49:15SPEAKEROh, you're talking USB power for objects away from the PC.
49:18SPEAKERIt's just like everything can be powered by USB now.
49:20SPEAKEREverything's powered off USB.
49:21SPEAKERAnd I think I think that's I think that's kind of a different category.
49:26SPEAKERLet me ask why you put a question mark after wireless stuff that works.
49:31SPEAKERWhat are we talking about here?
49:32SPEAKERI was thinking about like keyboards and mice and stuff like that.
49:34SPEAKEROK, I'm using a Bluetooth keyboard
49:37SPEAKERright now that I've been fairly impressed with, actually. OK.
49:40SPEAKERLike this is the Apple keyboard that you've been using for 15 years.
49:44SPEAKEROh, that was a wireless.
49:45SPEAKERThis is a different Apple keyboard.
49:47SPEAKERThat's also Bluetooth.
49:48SPEAKEROK, it's a newer one.
49:51SPEAKERI feel like.
49:54SPEAKERLike this is a peripheral that it doesn't matter
49:56SPEAKERif it's wired or wireless, essentially.
49:59SPEAKEROK, like once you get set up and going.
50:02SPEAKERAnd also using like it is nice to be able to use Bluetooth
50:07SPEAKERkeyboards in your BIOS now, assuming you have the right kind of Bluetooth
50:11SPEAKERdongle built into your motherboard or the right kind of Bluetooth dongle.
50:14SPEAKEROh, I didn't even consider that you could do that.
50:16SPEAKERThat's fairly impressive.
50:19SPEAKERBut but yeah, I think that's I think that's outside the scope of this.
50:22SPEAKERProbably that kind of wireless stuff.
50:24SPEAKERYeah, I think you're probably right. Probably right. OK, I've cut that.
50:28SPEAKERI was thinking about cutting tiny cases slash tiny computers.
50:32SPEAKERI think that stuff's awesome, but I have never engaged in it.
50:34SPEAKERSo I can't speak from experience.
50:36SPEAKEROh, I love I love like the rise of micro ITX.
50:39SPEAKERYes, this is that the form factor, micro ITX, micro ITX.
50:44SPEAKEROK, it's like a little square board.
50:46SPEAKERIt's the shoe box here.
50:48SPEAKERYeah, one PCI Express slot.
50:50SPEAKERUsually there's like an M2 slot or two.
50:52SPEAKERYeah, two sticks of memory and a CPU socket.
50:55SPEAKERThat's pretty much it.
50:56SPEAKERI mean, I guess you're right.
50:57SPEAKERI guess you've really got to cut corners.
50:58SPEAKERThere's like a surprising number of people
51:00SPEAKERon our Discord who are like super into the tiny, tiny computer.
51:04SPEAKERSo we see a lot of good examples of people building them.
51:06SPEAKERAnd like they're fascinating and really impressive.
51:08SPEAKERBut like the the Tetris process of getting all that stuff
51:11SPEAKERto fit in there seems like it could be real forny.
51:13SPEAKERWell, so the the people that make cases that are good.
51:17SPEAKERSo fractal makes some good, some good micro ITX cases.
51:20SPEAKERThere's also a lot of weird kind of behind the scenes
51:24SPEAKERnonsense about ITX, mini ITX, micro ITX cases.
51:28SPEAKERMaybe it's mini ITX anyway, it doesn't matter.
51:30SPEAKERBut, you know, the small form factor, ITX form factor.
51:35SPEAKERAnd there's a lot of weirdness about like people posting pictures
51:40SPEAKERand acting like they're going to sell cases that actually are never going to exist
51:43SPEAKERas a way to make other people make cases that are competitive,
51:47SPEAKERyou know, as a way to apply pressure to your competitors.
51:50SPEAKERAnd then there's a lot of like like small Kickstarter runs
51:53SPEAKERand stuff like that in those spaces, too.
51:55SPEAKEROh, yeah, I can absolutely see that type of tiny case following the mechanical
51:59SPEAKERkeyboard community of like we're doing a group buy on this case.
52:03SPEAKERWe're going to get like, you know, fan mounts for 500 people or whatever.
52:07SPEAKERWell, there's a there's a real there's a community is the right way to put it.
52:11SPEAKERThere's people who are really into that. I like it.
52:13SPEAKERIt doesn't work for me because I'm always going to need
52:15SPEAKERat least another card or two in my computer for capture stuff. Yes.
52:20SPEAKERBut but like I can appreciate it.
52:22SPEAKERI can look at it and be like, that is frickin cool, man.
52:24SPEAKERTotally is like a secondary computer as a workstation or a dumb terminal.
52:28SPEAKERLet's say a thin client.
52:29SPEAKERIt would be like you can put a few like there are cases
52:33SPEAKERthat you can put a full as 30 and I know you I know you can do that.
52:36SPEAKERI'm just saying like like like like you, I need a full size computer
52:39SPEAKERwith a lot of expansion potential for work stuff. Yeah. Well, but
52:44SPEAKERwhat I mean what I mean is like once you spec out and build one of these computers,
52:47SPEAKERthat's it, like you're not going to cram another drive in there or something like that's
52:51SPEAKERprobably not pretty much maxing that thing out from the get go, which is cool.
52:55SPEAKERBut but then even smaller than those are the things that you can't really build,
52:59SPEAKERlike the bricks and all that the Intel nukes and and and those type pieces
53:03SPEAKERthat are like super small.
53:05SPEAKERSo they're not system on a chip, but they're system on a board. Yeah.
53:08SPEAKERAnd they're all all they're basically laptops without a screen or a battery.
53:12SPEAKERHave you seen speaking of that and some people in the Discord
53:15SPEAKERwere talking about the Lenovo Think Center the other day.
53:18SPEAKERHave you seen this thing?
53:18SPEAKERThis is the thing that mounts on the visa port visa mount with your monitor.
53:21SPEAKEROh, it's a full computer. It's a little fanless.
53:25SPEAKERThe thing of the thing that caught my eye is it's a fanless core.
53:27SPEAKERI three. It's not a well, you know, it's not like an atom
53:31SPEAKERor even a Pentium or Celeron and either like lower powered Intel chips.
53:34SPEAKERIt's a straight up like mobile I3 in there.
53:36SPEAKERAnd it's like a little it's not much bigger than a router
53:39SPEAKERwith a giant heat sink on the top of it.
53:41SPEAKERLike it seems like it would be pretty powerful for like 200 bucks.
53:43SPEAKERSo the fanless is the interesting thing there, like ASUS and Acer and and Dell
53:48SPEAKERand all of those companies have been making computers that are that same kind of size
53:52SPEAKERthat are designed to hang off of like a visa mount with your
53:56SPEAKERlike the hook into the visa mount.
53:58SPEAKERI didn't look at it.
53:59SPEAKERI don't see the bottom of it here necessarily, but I wouldn't be surprised
54:02SPEAKERif you're right that it does actually mount on the back of a monitor.
54:05SPEAKERWell, yeah. And so you use those.
54:06SPEAKERThey use those in like hospitals and stuff like that.
54:08SPEAKERPlaces where you have like a like if you think about a hospital room now
54:11SPEAKERwhere there's a computer in every room and it's got one of those
54:14SPEAKERweird vertical pole mounts that they can fold a keyboard and stuff down.
54:17SPEAKERYes, that's where those end up.
54:19SPEAKERI think they're not they're not for people like us necessarily.
54:21SPEAKERWell, so this was being talked about in the network channel
54:24SPEAKERbecause this is a dual gigabit ethernet one.
54:26SPEAKEROh, yes, it would make a very good PFS box was the West.
54:30SPEAKERFinland sent me a link to that the other day.
54:31SPEAKERThat's only 200 bucks. Really?
54:33SPEAKERThe one I was just I believe that's right.
54:36SPEAKEROh, man. Yeah.
54:39SPEAKEROh, wow. OK, that's interesting.
54:41SPEAKERYeah. So anyway, I don't know.
54:42SPEAKERDo we want to put tiny computers on here?
54:44SPEAKERNo, I think we can cut it.
54:45SPEAKEROK, I agree.
54:46SPEAKERI'm not going to say I've said my piece.
54:49SPEAKERWe have to cut glass doors and fancy lights.
54:51SPEAKERI'm sorry. I love that.
54:52SPEAKERDude, really?
54:53SPEAKERDid you get a whole box?
54:56SPEAKERYou can get a whole instead of a door with a hole in it that has a piece of glass
54:59SPEAKERand you just get a door that's all glass now. That's amazing.
55:03SPEAKERThey're smoked. They're gorgeous.
55:04SPEAKERThey make you can see that just a hint of your fancy lighting scheme.
55:08SPEAKERAnd so I am not a fan. I don't know, man.
55:10SPEAKERLook, you want to be a big Twitch streamer, Brad.
55:14SPEAKERYou got to get you got to get your fancy lights and take down that Star Wars
55:17SPEAKERRevenge of the Sith movie poster and and never put your big PC back there.
55:22SPEAKERNever be big Hayden Christensen Stan.
55:25SPEAKERThat's right. You can cut it. It's fine.
55:28SPEAKERI think I think having the option of doing the fancy lights is awesome.
55:32SPEAKERThe fact that that stuff is built into the motherboards
55:33SPEAKERand there's an ecosystem around it is cool.
55:35SPEAKERAnd the fact that you can buy addressable RGB light strips for nothing now
55:40SPEAKERand put them in your case
55:41SPEAKERand make it do all sorts of really insanely stupid lighting stuff is awesome.
55:45SPEAKERI think, you know, on some level, it's cool that stuff exists.
55:48SPEAKERLike there are a lot of good ideas being.
55:50SPEAKEROh, Grandpa Brad hates the sparklies.
55:52SPEAKERJust it is not it is not to my taste.
55:54SPEAKEROh, it's there's no there's kids in there.
55:58SPEAKERGround effects on their PC.
56:00SPEAKERYou don't need that to to paraphrase my grandpappy.
56:04SPEAKEROh, boy, PCs should be used and not seen.
56:08SPEAKERSo it's picking up when I'm putting down
56:12SPEAKERlike I like I like the technology to be out of the way.
56:16SPEAKERYeah, yeah, yeah.
56:17SPEAKEROK, but how will people know how fast my computer is
56:21SPEAKERthat they can't see the cool lights? Yeah.
56:25SPEAKERI mean, I kind of get where you're going with cheap overnight shipping,
56:27SPEAKERbut I feel like it is sort of outside the bounds of this.
56:29SPEAKERLike, yes, it is very nice if you need a cable or a
56:32SPEAKERbrand apart card, you name it, a new heat sink or whatever,
56:37SPEAKERlike to get it the next day or sometimes even the same day,
56:39SPEAKERif you're lucky, is pretty nice.
56:41SPEAKERDo you remember the UPS strike in nineteen ninety five? Not really.
56:46SPEAKERThe UPS drivers felt like they were being mistreated, probably rightly so.
56:49SPEAKERAnd they went on strike and stopped delivering packages for 14 or 15 days.
56:54SPEAKERI had received every single component for my new computer, except for the case,
56:59SPEAKERwhich was still on a UPS truck about four miles from my house.
57:03SPEAKERThe strike was called.
57:05SPEAKERI waited for another two weeks to get that case looking at my case,
57:09SPEAKERsix, two hundred and my new video card and all this case.
57:13SPEAKERYou could have just built it on a cardboard box.
57:16SPEAKERLook, it was the first time I ever built a computer.
57:18SPEAKERI was not building on a cardboard box. I was scary. Yeah, I get it.
57:22SPEAKERYeah, that's the type of thing you after you build three or four.
57:24SPEAKERThey're like, anything goes, whatever.
57:25SPEAKERYeah, but like remember, remember the time you bought the wrong RAM
57:29SPEAKERand you're like, oh, man, I bought the RAM for the wrong motherboard.
57:31SPEAKERI got to get the new stuff.
57:32SPEAKERThen you got to wait another two weeks for it to come.
57:34SPEAKERYeah, I mean, yes, it sucks.
57:35SPEAKERBut remember the time your computer broke and you're like, oh, God,
57:39SPEAKERI'm not going to have a computer for the next 10 days. That's terrible.
57:42SPEAKERThe fact that you can just call somebody and they'll send it to you
57:44SPEAKERand it'll be there next day for an extra like 10 bucks is amazing.
57:46SPEAKERBut you can as an end user, I get it. I think that, you know.
57:51SPEAKERThere's a certain human cost associated with that convenience,
57:54SPEAKERthat look needs to be that needs to be addressed before we can really.
57:59SPEAKERIt's true. Feel good about that.
58:00SPEAKERAnd now with fries gone, we don't have a whole lot of alternatives.
58:02SPEAKERWe've got to lean into the into the overnight shipping. Yeah.
58:09SPEAKERI think flat panels are really good.
58:13SPEAKERYou know, I don't disagree.
58:16SPEAKERI don't know that they're in this list.
58:18SPEAKERYeah, being a little nitpicky, I feel like that, you know,
58:21SPEAKERthat's just something you plug into your computer.
58:22SPEAKERIt's not necessarily a part of building and making it work.
58:25SPEAKERI feel like you're taking a shot at USB now, but OK. No, no, not.
58:30SPEAKERYeah, I can I can get behind that I can get behind killing flat panels.
58:34SPEAKERThe other thing is, I think like I mean, obviously nobody's building CRTs anymore.
58:37SPEAKERLike the use case for flat for flat panels is obvious,
58:40SPEAKERbut there are so many tradeoffs.
58:42SPEAKERLike there are still so many things about flat panels that are not as good as CRTs.
58:45SPEAKERI wish I had kept my 24 inch Trinitron. Dude, yeah.
58:49SPEAKERIt was a widescreen. It was awesome. It was a twelve hundred dollar monitor.
58:52SPEAKERWow. Wait, like retail twelve hundred dollars? Retail twelve hundred bucks.
58:56SPEAKERThat's intense. Yeah. Did you see?
58:59SPEAKERGod, I can never remember the model number of this thing.
59:02SPEAKERYou see a couple of weeks ago, one of those Sony widescreen.
59:05SPEAKERI believe I think it's the Carmack monitor, like the the widescreen Sony
59:09SPEAKERfrom way back in the day, CRT sold TV.
59:12SPEAKERNo, no, it's a monitor.
59:13SPEAKERIt's a Sony GDM. I believe this is it. I believe. Damn it.
59:17SPEAKERIs it the broadcast monitor like those Sony's, the Sony GDM FW 900.
59:22SPEAKERIt's the one that
59:25SPEAKERis the one the digital founder
59:26SPEAKERdid a video about a few months ago or a year ago and like kind of created
59:29SPEAKERa run on them. It's a 1440p CRT.
59:32SPEAKEROK, like that's why it's so special.
59:35SPEAKERIt is a huge CRT that literally does 1440p.
59:38SPEAKERThis is this is the monitor that I had. You had one of these?
59:40SPEAKERYes. Oh, I had one.
59:42SPEAKERSo we bought one to test video cards because we needed something
59:46SPEAKERyou could do this high resolution as possible at maximum PC.
59:49SPEAKERAnd then when the 2560 by 1600 panels came out,
59:53SPEAKERwe were they were going to chuck it.
59:55SPEAKERAnd I was like, oh, I'll take that.
59:57SPEAKERAnd it was 23 inches. It weighed like 100 pounds.
59:59SPEAKERIt was so fucking heavy.
1:00:01SPEAKEROh, I get it. Yes. Yeah.
1:00:02SPEAKERDownsides are obvious, but, you know, it's a CRT.
1:00:07SPEAKERSo I want to be sad.
1:00:08SPEAKERSo they sell periodically.
1:00:10SPEAKERThis one was new in box.
1:00:11SPEAKERThis one was never been opened.
1:00:14SPEAKERBrand new sitting in a warehouse or whatever for the last 20 years
1:00:18SPEAKERsold for over thirty five thousand dollars.
1:00:20SPEAKERWhat? Yeah, that's insane. Yes.
1:00:23SPEAKERIt was it was it was really it took two people to move it.
1:00:27SPEAKERIt didn't have handles.
1:00:29SPEAKEROh, boy. It was because it was a flat CRT.
1:00:31SPEAKERThe front side was about most of the weight was in the like the three inches
1:00:35SPEAKERon the screen side. Sure.
1:00:37SPEAKERSo it was really hard to move.
1:00:39SPEAKERI mean, you know, the reason the CRTs went away.
1:00:42SPEAKERBut yeah, they sure do look good and they're they're just, you know,
1:00:45SPEAKERstill a lot of ways that flat panel that LCD especially is just not up to snuff.
1:00:49SPEAKERSo I didn't have this.
1:00:50SPEAKERI had the other version of this model, the one that had the buttons
1:00:53SPEAKERunderneath the front panel, not on the little dangler.
1:00:56SPEAKERBut yeah, it's the same, same basic monitor, 24 inches widescreen, 1440p.
1:01:02SPEAKERAnd we're kind of getting down to some.
1:01:05SPEAKERIt's going to it's about to get real, Brad.
1:01:07SPEAKERTough choices. I feel like we have 17 items.
1:01:11SPEAKERDo we need to read the list, do you think?
1:01:14SPEAKERSure. OK, here's what we got at the moment.
1:01:18SPEAKERModular power supplies, build friendly cases, USB quiet operation.
1:01:23SPEAKEREverything but the computer, which I think we need to rephrase.
1:01:26SPEAKERThat's the one that's like, hey, it's the stuff breaks.
1:01:28SPEAKERYou can find out information and guess resources about the computer
1:01:32SPEAKERthat exist outside of the computer itself.
1:01:34SPEAKERBasically being able to plug your PC into your TV.
1:01:37SPEAKERThat's kind of the standardization of HDMI all over the place.
1:01:40SPEAKERYeah, SATA, PCI Express, UEFI and the UEFI boot shell.
1:01:46SPEAKERWe haven't talked about that one yet.
1:01:47SPEAKERWe haven't talked about SATA, PCI Express or UEFI yet. Yeah.
1:01:52SPEAKERModern BIOS, so support for input devices, network support, backing up firmware, etc.
1:01:58SPEAKERCan we talk about this for a sec?
1:01:59SPEAKERYeah, sure.
1:02:02SPEAKERLike BIOS has slowly been getting or UEFI, whatever you call it these days,
1:02:06SPEAKERlike slowly been getting more features over the years.
1:02:08SPEAKERLike I think the biggest one here. Well, there's two.
1:02:11SPEAKERExcuse me. Like at some point they got support for mice
1:02:14SPEAKERand like USB keyboards and other types of keyboards.
1:02:17SPEAKERYou know what I mean?
1:02:18SPEAKERThat was in the UEFI shift is my understanding.
1:02:21SPEAKERSo like the first time I went into a BIOS menu and realized
1:02:24SPEAKERI could use the mouse was like shocking. Yeah.
1:02:28SPEAKERTo the extent that I refused to do it, I was like, this is the BIOS.
1:02:31SPEAKERThe mouse doesn't work here.
1:02:32SPEAKERI'm going to keep using the keyboard. What are you talking about?
1:02:34SPEAKERDo you feel like the UEFI mouse access is better
1:02:37SPEAKERthan just using the keyboard?
1:02:39SPEAKERI mean, I prefer the I still but is that a legacy thing?
1:02:41SPEAKERIs it because I'm one of the crotchety old graveyards?
1:02:45SPEAKERWell, for me, it's that the kids and your mice and your BIOS.
1:02:48SPEAKERFor me, it's the people who are designing the BIOS
1:02:50SPEAKERusually are pretty shitty UX designers.
1:02:53SPEAKERThat is very fair. Yes, actually.
1:02:55SPEAKERSo like even basic stuff like the click targets
1:02:58SPEAKERfor the mouse being fat enough for you to be able to hit.
1:03:01SPEAKERYeah. Or like the sensitivity setting for the mouse being humane.
1:03:04SPEAKERLike it like it won't be like there will be like any kind of weird
1:03:07SPEAKERor there will be any kind of mouse acceleration
1:03:08SPEAKERor the things you're used to from Windows, like it feels bad to use.
1:03:10SPEAKERWait, you leave mouse acceleration on?
1:03:12SPEAKERMaybe not. I don't know. I forget.
1:03:14SPEAKEROK, so so anyway, I feel like I feel like this is a real mixed bag.
1:03:19SPEAKERLike adding my mouse support.
1:03:21SPEAKERThe one thing in this list that I think is fantastic is the backup firmware.
1:03:25SPEAKERYes. So the BIOS flash go bad.
1:03:27SPEAKERSo there's two there, I think. Yeah, I think because there are now
1:03:31SPEAKERI guess probably every BIOS has had this for a while.
1:03:33SPEAKERYou can back up the last known good settings.
1:03:35SPEAKERAnd then more recently, yeah, like there's basically like BIOS protection, right?
1:03:38SPEAKERThere's like kind of a rescue mode sort of situation
1:03:41SPEAKERwhere if a flash goes bad, you have not destroyed your motherboard.
1:03:44SPEAKERYou kind of just can recover from it.
1:03:46SPEAKERYeah, I assume this is a situation that's like Apple making phones
1:03:49SPEAKERwaterproof because people keep dropping in the toilets.
1:03:51SPEAKERLike it's the number one thing they do to destroy their phone.
1:03:55SPEAKERSo I think.
1:03:58SPEAKERLike, I'm OK keeping backup firmware on here.
1:04:00SPEAKERI don't I have never used network access on the BIOS at all.
1:04:04SPEAKERYou were like you were like scandalized when I mentioned it
1:04:07SPEAKERbefore we started recording that it even exists.
1:04:09SPEAKERBut yeah, like why do you talk about high risk, man?
1:04:13SPEAKERThe ASUS board that is in my NAS can connect to the Internet
1:04:17SPEAKERand download firmware updates from the Internet and install them like that.
1:04:20SPEAKERThey were so busy trying to figure out if they could do it.
1:04:23SPEAKERThey didn't stop to think if they should do it.
1:04:27SPEAKERI don't think I've ever actually let it happen.
1:04:28SPEAKERI think I downloaded one just to see it work.
1:04:30SPEAKERI was like, wow, that's crazy that the BIOS itself can just get on the Internet now.
1:04:33SPEAKERBut I didn't actually install it once it downloaded, but I did test it.
1:04:39SPEAKERI think that's a high like if you want to do something high risk,
1:04:42SPEAKERjust go out and lick some subway turnstiles or something.
1:04:44SPEAKERDon't download a BIOS with from the BIOS. That's madness.
1:04:47SPEAKERIf you can, if you combine the online firmware download with the firmware
1:04:50SPEAKERrecovery kind of backup thing, then what can go wrong?
1:04:53SPEAKERIt's better to not need the firmware
1:04:55SPEAKERbackup recovery, but have it just in case. Yeah, I guess you're right.
1:04:59SPEAKERSo the one thing I do, I have stopped using boot disks to install
1:05:04SPEAKERfirmware because most motherboards don't really let you do that anymore.
1:05:06SPEAKERAnd I have started plugging in a fat 32
1:05:09SPEAKERformatted USB stick with the BIOS on it to do the flash now.
1:05:13SPEAKERBut I don't even use the windows flash utility for BIOS's.
1:05:16SPEAKERThat scares me. Oh, I would never do that.
1:05:18SPEAKERYeah, that just that seems unnatural to me. Yeah.
1:05:22SPEAKERI guess maybe we should talk about the UEFI boot shell stuff at the same time.
1:05:25SPEAKERLike, I mean, I will fess up here.
1:05:27SPEAKERI don't know the difference really between like BIOS and UEFI operation.
1:05:33SPEAKEROh, so the big thing is that UEFI boots boots faster
1:05:36SPEAKERbecause it only use boots the stuff that you absolutely, absolutely need.
1:05:40SPEAKERInteresting. And it has it's like the BIOS was limited
1:05:44SPEAKERto like some incredibly small amount of space and RAM.
1:05:48SPEAKERAnd the UEFI accesses the full 32 or maybe even 64 bit addressable space.
1:05:53SPEAKERInteresting. So it can hit things like like a larger file
1:05:57SPEAKERlike it can access a fat 32.
1:06:00SPEAKERIt has enough memory to run the stuff that lets access fat 32.
1:06:02SPEAKERI think even NTFS now. OK.
1:06:05SPEAKERI don't like it is it is good.
1:06:08SPEAKERUEFI at the beginning was such a pain in the ass to make work right.
1:06:13SPEAKERThat I would have put it as a negative if you'd asked me this like eight years ago.
1:06:16SPEAKERSure. And now because like for a while, you had this weird situation
1:06:21SPEAKERwhere if you like didn't install windows with the UEFI formatted thumb drive,
1:06:24SPEAKERthen it wouldn't it wouldn't use the UEFI BIOS
1:06:27SPEAKERand would roll back over to MBR and normal BIOS.
1:06:31SPEAKERI think it's fine.
1:06:32SPEAKERI don't I don't know that I care enough to put on the list.
1:06:34SPEAKERI think the network I think the backup firmware is probably more important
1:06:37SPEAKERthan the UEFI boot shell.
1:06:39SPEAKERI mean, I put the I put the boot shell on there
1:06:40SPEAKERbecause I mean, it is basically sort of a DOS-ish prompt
1:06:44SPEAKERthat is useful for certain things like that's what I had to use
1:06:46SPEAKERto flash my SAS card for my NAS to put a different BIOS on there.
1:06:50SPEAKEROK, you had to boot into the UEFI shell and flash it from there.
1:06:53SPEAKERSo it's kind of so that that basically takes the place of a DOS boot disk
1:06:57SPEAKERthese days that you're just booting straight out of the BIOS
1:07:00SPEAKERto do some stuff like that.
1:07:02SPEAKERWho makes that? Is it like AMI writes those or something makes what?
1:07:05SPEAKERThe who writes the the boot shell? Who owns that?
1:07:08SPEAKERIt's not like, oh, I don't know,
1:07:10SPEAKERbecause you need to download a shell in a lot of cases like it's there.
1:07:13SPEAKERI think they're generally like EFI files like you're booting.
1:07:16SPEAKERThat's what you're booting.
1:07:17SPEAKERYeah. In fact, like I just I set up a Linux VM over the weekend
1:07:21SPEAKERand like you can straight up go into slash boot and there's like the there's
1:07:23SPEAKERthe EFI file that it's from.
1:07:27SPEAKERI don't know.
1:07:28SPEAKERMaybe that's I feel like our confusion
1:07:29SPEAKERaround all this is probably enough of an argument to take it off.
1:07:32SPEAKERWell, I mean, look, there's an argument for having more capable
1:07:36SPEAKERtechnologies there and the fact that we're out of the teething window
1:07:40SPEAKERwhere like you could you had to assume
1:07:41SPEAKERthat people didn't necessarily have that has changed things.
1:07:45SPEAKERAlso, the fact that it's like you can like the fact that I haven't accidentally
1:07:48SPEAKERinstalled the wrong version of windows in a long time is is is telling. Yes.
1:07:56SPEAKERBut yeah, I think I think the like
1:07:58SPEAKERyou could also roll that stuff up into modern BIOS
1:08:00SPEAKERbecause UEFI BIOS sync for all intents and purposes is the same thing. Sure.
1:08:06SPEAKERBootable OS bootable USB OS installers are huge, though.
1:08:09SPEAKERI think that has to that is a lock for the top 10.
1:08:12SPEAKERYeah, I would give that a lock probably the first time.
1:08:16SPEAKERI guess it was probably Windows seven if I had to guess.
1:08:19SPEAKERMaybe they did it with XP, but the first time I could go to Microsoft
1:08:23SPEAKERand they themselves sanctioned me to download.
1:08:28SPEAKERA copy of Windows, that's what those installers seven or Windows eight.
1:08:31SPEAKERI can't remember like like by their own by their own good graces.
1:08:34SPEAKERThey allowed me to download Windows.
1:08:37SPEAKERYou know, prepare a USB bootable, USB stick, put the installer on there.
1:08:41SPEAKEROr it's all one tool.
1:08:42SPEAKERYou know, it's like you download the creation tool and it just does it.
1:08:44SPEAKERBut the point is, like the point is, you didn't have to go to a store
1:08:47SPEAKERto buy it on a CD.
1:08:48SPEAKERYou didn't have to like X, Y or Z.
1:08:51SPEAKERYou just straight up download the OS,
1:08:52SPEAKERput it on a thing, boot from that thing and install it. That's it.
1:08:55SPEAKERLike you don't have to.
1:08:56SPEAKERIf your drive controller didn't support wasn't supported by the OS out of the box,
1:09:00SPEAKERyou didn't have to download F6 drivers to put them on a floppy disk.
1:09:04SPEAKERI only had to do that once and it frightened me.
1:09:06SPEAKERI was like, oh, what we always always was definitely like a life
1:09:11SPEAKERmoment, like questioning my life choices of like, what did I buy
1:09:13SPEAKERthat I have to hit F6 and then install additional drivers
1:09:16SPEAKERin the middle of the Windows process?
1:09:17SPEAKERLike like on the XP, what have I done in the XP and XP and before
1:09:21SPEAKERbefore the Windows installer would check the network?
1:09:25SPEAKERYou and if you had a motherboard that was newer, a motherboard chip set
1:09:28SPEAKERthat was newer than the OS, you had to download the F6 drivers every time.
1:09:32SPEAKERYeah, yeah.
1:09:32SPEAKERI just like the maximum PC was always F6 drivers.
1:09:35SPEAKEROh sure, oh sure, oh sure.
1:09:35SPEAKERYou guys were just every single time, right?
1:09:37SPEAKEROh, I mean, you know, the single biggest
1:09:41SPEAKERconvenience factor of this is you didn't have to keep OS
1:09:44SPEAKERinstallation media around anymore.
1:09:45SPEAKERLike any time you needed to reinstall or install something new, you just made it.
1:09:48SPEAKERYeah.
1:09:49SPEAKERWhereas like, you know, back in the day, like your Windows
1:09:52SPEAKER98 install CD was like a hallowed out, you know, it's like the it was like
1:09:56SPEAKERthe Raiders of the Lost Ark scene, you know, like your disk was on like a pedestal.
1:10:00SPEAKEROh, yeah.
1:10:00SPEAKERBut no one could touch because you had to know where it was at all times.
1:10:03SPEAKERAnd if you lost that thing and something went wrong
1:10:05SPEAKERand like Windows stopped booting for some reason, you were hosed.
1:10:08SPEAKERRight. Like so just just being free of having to keep up with that
1:10:11SPEAKERand just being able to make an OS installer whenever is is so huge for me.
1:10:16SPEAKEROf course, if you didn't have some secondary computer or something,
1:10:18SPEAKERhow would you do that, Brad?
1:10:19SPEAKERThink about it. That should be below that then, I think.
1:10:21SPEAKERActually, you know what, like that's not a bad point.
1:10:23SPEAKERLike, you know, there's no way to make a Windows installer on a Mac.
1:10:26SPEAKERYeah. No reasonable way.
1:10:28SPEAKERThere's like workarounds, but it's like a 20 step process of like
1:10:32SPEAKERformatting an NTFS stick and downloading all these cab files
1:10:36SPEAKERand extracting things and putting them in the right place.
1:10:38SPEAKERAnd like, yeah, it's it's easier to download a pirated VM,
1:10:44SPEAKERrun it, run the VM in your Mac machine,
1:10:47SPEAKERmake the new installer from the pirated VM.
1:10:49SPEAKERAnd then, yes, yes.
1:10:51SPEAKERBut that was always kind of weird to me.
1:10:53SPEAKERWhy would that why they wouldn't support that use case more?
1:10:55SPEAKERBecause like, wouldn't you want to give people
1:10:57SPEAKERa pathway to get off of your competitor or onto your OS?
1:11:03SPEAKERLike, wouldn't it be good if Microsoft do that?
1:11:05SPEAKERYeah, like why would Microsoft make a Mac version of the media creation tool?
1:11:08SPEAKEROh, that's a good point.
1:11:09SPEAKERLike, why don't they let people on a Mac make a Windows installer?
1:11:12SPEAKERBecause it implies that they're moving from their competitor to them.
1:11:16SPEAKERI feel like the moment they did that, Apple would have stopped doing.
1:11:19SPEAKERYeah, you're right.
1:11:19SPEAKERRight. Like, you know, like I was thinking like, oh, legally,
1:11:22SPEAKERthey can't stop them from releasing that.
1:11:23SPEAKERBut you're right, there's like relationships to maintain.
1:11:25SPEAKERYeah. You don't want to step on toes too much. I get it.
1:11:30SPEAKERPlus, theoretically, Microsoft probably thought that the
1:11:33SPEAKERthe Apple customer who was buying Windows was going to best buy
1:11:36SPEAKERto buy a copy, a box copy of Windows with the USB stick in it, probably. Sure.
1:11:42SPEAKERWhat about a Windows update installing basic drivers?
1:11:46SPEAKERWell, that's good.
1:11:48SPEAKERThat's OK. I don't know. Like, hmm.
1:11:51SPEAKERBut why don't we bundle that and auto updating drivers in like.
1:11:57SPEAKERIn like a like drivers got easy.
1:12:01SPEAKERShe remember those days, if you didn't have the right drivers,
1:12:03SPEAKERthen your computer would be jacked up and you wouldn't like weird shit
1:12:05SPEAKERwould happen all the time. You just wouldn't know what was going on.
1:12:07SPEAKERYeah, like it would reboot suddenly.
1:12:10SPEAKERYou'd have spontaneous reboots or wouldn't be running fast
1:12:12SPEAKERin certain applications or whatever.
1:12:15SPEAKERI think it's like chipset drivers.
1:12:17SPEAKERI mean, I'm even shocked that Windows has like a version of the video
1:12:20SPEAKERdriver built into it now, like a fallback version, like, you know,
1:12:23SPEAKERlike not just a generic VGA driver that puts you in 640 by 480
1:12:27SPEAKERevery time you change to it.
1:12:28SPEAKERYeah, like even that is still shocking to me.
1:12:32SPEAKERYeah, that's good.
1:12:34SPEAKERThat whole, you know, it's not having to fiddle with drivers as much.
1:12:38SPEAKERYeah, easy, easy driver installation slash updates.
1:12:44SPEAKERYeah, I think because like the Windows update
1:12:46SPEAKERdrivers will kind of get you in trouble sometimes if you're not careful.
1:12:49SPEAKERThat's what I was going to say is that sometimes you don't
1:12:51SPEAKERwant to use those versions.
1:12:52SPEAKERYeah, but at the same time, like they'll at least get you started.
1:12:57SPEAKERLike it's not it's not like the old days where you could be.
1:13:02SPEAKERYou could hose yourself, right?
1:13:05SPEAKERLike if you like, if you, for example, in my case, example,
1:13:08SPEAKERif I had forgotten to get the drivers for the modem before
1:13:12SPEAKERbefore I, I pulled the hard drive out and formatted it
1:13:15SPEAKERand put in the new computer, I wouldn't have had any way to get modem drivers.
1:13:19SPEAKEROh, boy. Yeah.
1:13:21SPEAKERThat strikes fear into my heart.
1:13:22SPEAKERLet's just move on from that.
1:13:24SPEAKERNo, it's scary.
1:13:27SPEAKERNot having to activate windows is a big deal.
1:13:29SPEAKERDid you install windows like 95, 98?
1:13:32SPEAKEROh, yeah, of course. Many, many, many times.
1:13:36SPEAKERSo during that activation process in 95 OSR2,
1:13:40SPEAKERwhich is when they when they started it, the you typed your key in
1:13:45SPEAKERand then you'd get like a 30 digit code
1:13:47SPEAKERand you'd call an 800 number with the 30 digit code
1:13:50SPEAKERand you'd read it to some guy on the other side of the world.
1:13:53SPEAKERAnd then he would read another 30 digit number back to you
1:13:56SPEAKERand you type that in because you didn't connect to the Internet.
1:13:58SPEAKERYou couldn't guarantee you were connected to the Internet.
1:14:01SPEAKERAnd that was how you activated windows then.
1:14:03SPEAKERWow. Only one time, though, right? Not every time you installed.
1:14:06SPEAKEROh, every time you install.
1:14:07SPEAKEROh, because they didn't have the like the Microsoft account system.
1:14:10SPEAKERYeah. Where they just authenticated once that started with Windows, Windows eight.
1:14:15SPEAKERThat didn't start even that that started like five years ago, six years ago.
1:14:18SPEAKERMan, that is wow. That is insane.
1:14:20SPEAKERYeah. So like when they switched over and it wasn't until after XP
1:14:24SPEAKERthat they switched over to letting you install
1:14:26SPEAKERand then bugging you about activating afterwards. Right.
1:14:29SPEAKERI think with Windows Vista, they didn't let you have the fancy,
1:14:33SPEAKERtransparent window edges if you didn't activate.
1:14:36SPEAKERThat sounds right. Yeah.
1:14:37SPEAKERWith a lot of features out.
1:14:38SPEAKERYeah, they locked some features out.
1:14:40SPEAKERSo how will I get by and how will I not see my windows?
1:14:45SPEAKERSo, yeah, like not having to activate windows to install it. Huge deal.
1:14:49SPEAKERSo what is the situation now?
1:14:51SPEAKERYou can just download windows and kind of use it in perpetuity. Is that right?
1:14:55SPEAKERSo the last time I looked at this, which was a while ago,
1:14:58SPEAKERas long as you were on one of the insider wheels, either the the the, you know,
1:15:02SPEAKERthe the beta test versions, basically. Yeah.
1:15:06SPEAKERThey kind of would let you use it without any problems,
1:15:09SPEAKERwhether you're paying or not.
1:15:11SPEAKERIs that just a basic situation of like the kind of user telemetry
1:15:14SPEAKERthat you're generating for us is basically worth us letting you use it for free.
1:15:17SPEAKERI think that's the the logic behind that, but I don't know how I feel about that.
1:15:21SPEAKERI don't know if that's like kind of a cool trade
1:15:22SPEAKERor if it's like super skeezy or maybe both. I'm not sure. I mean.
1:15:27SPEAKERI think that's better than somebody downloading a pirated version
1:15:30SPEAKERthat's infected with a bunch of malware and shit.
1:15:32SPEAKERYeah, that's from Microsoft standpoint. That's fair.
1:15:34SPEAKERLike probably they were like, what's the most value we can get out of these people
1:15:38SPEAKERwho are going to steal the OS if we don't just let them have it. Yeah.
1:15:41SPEAKERAnd that's a pretty, pretty good trade.
1:15:43SPEAKERYou get, I think, 30 days to activate when you install now, if you haven't already.
1:15:47SPEAKERAnd if you if if windows looks at your computer is like,
1:15:51SPEAKERoh, not enough has changed for us to recognize this hardware fingerprint
1:15:54SPEAKERas a different computer, it'll just activate silently in the background.
1:15:57SPEAKERYou'll never know that anything's happened
1:15:59SPEAKERif it needs you to provide feedback or something.
1:16:03SPEAKERSometimes it pops up and says, hey, we've noticed some hardware has changed.
1:16:06SPEAKERIs this the same computer?
1:16:07SPEAKERAnd you say yes, and then they just activate it.
1:16:09SPEAKERSometimes you have to call them still and say, hey, or you go.
1:16:13SPEAKERThe worst I've ever had to do is go through a web form that said, hey,
1:16:16SPEAKERand you say my motherboard died and they gave me a new motherboard.
1:16:19SPEAKERBut otherwise, it's the old computer is no longer being used.
1:16:22SPEAKERDo you do you know what in their eyes delineates a new computer,
1:16:26SPEAKERquote unquote, these days, like I like I've got this Windows
1:16:29SPEAKER10 pro key on this five year old motherboard.
1:16:31SPEAKERIs it a new motherboard?
1:16:33SPEAKERIt is when I upgrade, will that be when I get a new CPU and motherboard?
1:16:37SPEAKERWill that be enough for that license to not transfer over?
1:16:40SPEAKERThere is a threshold, but the license so far for me has always
1:16:43SPEAKERI'm still using the initial Windows 10 pro key that was generated
1:16:47SPEAKERwhen my Windows eight, when I put my Windows eight key in the free
1:16:50SPEAKERWindows 10 key thing, right?
1:16:53SPEAKERSo when they started this with Windows XP,
1:16:57SPEAKERI think we talked about it at length of maximum PC.
1:17:00SPEAKERWe did a whole article about it.
1:17:01SPEAKERThe gist was the the machine generated a hash based on the hardware
1:17:06SPEAKERIDs that it can see, which is like network Mac,
1:17:11SPEAKERyou know, serial serial number of the GPU, all these different things
1:17:15SPEAKERthat you can see the the hard drive serial number, the things that it can access.
1:17:18SPEAKERAnd when that hash changed substantially, it would prompt another activation call.
1:17:23SPEAKERInteresting. I don't know if they're still doing it the same way.
1:17:26SPEAKERI it almost seems like as long as you're using Windows
1:17:28SPEAKER10 and you're logged into the number of computers that you have a license for,
1:17:31SPEAKERthey don't really care. OK, but it's unclear. That's unclear.
1:17:35SPEAKERYeah, I guess I guess I'll find out when I upgrade.
1:17:36SPEAKERBut I was wondering if it's less like it's not it's not that you can't transfer it.
1:17:39SPEAKERIt's more you just can't be using it on more than one or two
1:17:42SPEAKERor whatever the number is.
1:17:43SPEAKERI think if you if you go through the exercise of contacting them,
1:17:47SPEAKERthey'll they'll give you a pass for like a normal human upgrade.
1:17:52SPEAKERRight. Cycle. It's like, hey, it's not going to be decommissioning the old.
1:17:55SPEAKERRight. It's like, hey, I'm not gonna be running windows on that old machine anymore.
1:17:58SPEAKERSo, yeah, I'm going to make a proposal here.
1:18:01SPEAKEROK, what you got that we try to whittle this down to 10
1:18:05SPEAKERand then call it a week and then rank them next week.
1:18:08SPEAKERI think that's the way this is going to go.
1:18:10SPEAKEROr we could call it right now. We're at 15 right now.
1:18:13SPEAKERI think we can get to 10.
1:18:14SPEAKEROK, I think we can here's here's what I'm going to suggest.
1:18:19SPEAKEROK, I think modern connectors.
1:18:23SPEAKERModern multi-purpose connectors, so SATA and PCIe.
1:18:28SPEAKERGo into one, hmm, actually, oh, I don't know, man.
1:18:32SPEAKERIDE was such a.
1:18:34SPEAKERPain in the ass, OK, pretty big course, even SATA is getting dated now, but like.
1:18:40SPEAKERMm hmm. But but moving from those big fat ribbon cables
1:18:44SPEAKERto SATA was a huge deal.
1:18:45SPEAKERSo and the better getting off the and getting off the molex
1:18:49SPEAKERto those tiny little those little power connectors
1:18:51SPEAKERand not having to put change the jumpers. Yeah.
1:18:55SPEAKERFor you know, because you can only have two on each one.
1:18:57SPEAKERYou have to specify which one is which. It wasn't by cable position. Totally.
1:19:00SPEAKERSo like you drop one of those jumpers in the bottom of the case.
1:19:04SPEAKERYou ruined your day. Yep.
1:19:06SPEAKERI think SATA deserves its own place on here for sure.
1:19:09SPEAKERPCI Express like that's pretty good, too.
1:19:11SPEAKERThere's a lot of PCI Express stuff these days.
1:19:13SPEAKERWell, but more than that, there was a period of time
1:19:15SPEAKERwhen there were three different slots in your computer.
1:19:17SPEAKERYou have an ISA slot, a PCI slot and an AGP slot. Yes.
1:19:20SPEAKERAnd that was insane.
1:19:22SPEAKERYou know, the argument I might make against PCI Express is how complicated
1:19:25SPEAKERit is in itself, because there's multiple versions.
1:19:28SPEAKERThere's numbers of lanes you need to worry about.
1:19:30SPEAKERThere's like looking at your specific motherboard to figure out
1:19:34SPEAKERwhich slots have how much how many lanes
1:19:35SPEAKERand which ones get disabled when you're using other slots like.
1:19:39SPEAKERIt's bad. I just found a great deal in the Sound Blaster, AWE 64.
1:19:43SPEAKERI'm going to order it. Do you want one, too? Oh, yeah, sure. Sure.
1:19:45SPEAKEROh, man, this is the ISA version. I don't have an ISA slot anymore.
1:19:49SPEAKERWhat am I going to do?
1:19:49SPEAKERCan I just get an adapter and plug it in my PCI slot?
1:19:52SPEAKERNope. Oh, get rekt, noob.
1:19:54SPEAKERYeah, I get it. But I don't know. I would argue that the internal confusion
1:19:59SPEAKERwith PCI Express is kind of moderates how great it is.
1:20:04SPEAKERBut it's cool that, you know, you can get like
1:20:06SPEAKERI've got a graphics card, a USB three expansion board
1:20:09SPEAKERwith a bunch of ports on it, a capture card.
1:20:12SPEAKERYou can get an external PCI Express.
1:20:14SPEAKERYeah, like I've got all those all in the same type of slot, you know.
1:20:17SPEAKERWell, but there's also like one X, four X, eight X or more.
1:20:21SPEAKERIs there an eight X connector?
1:20:22SPEAKERYeah, there's eight X.
1:20:24SPEAKERIt's one X, four X, 16 X.
1:20:27SPEAKERAnd I'm talking about the physical connector.
1:20:30SPEAKERBless you. I'm talking about the size of the connector.
1:20:31SPEAKERYou know, there's like the super tiny, the one X that's like an inch wide
1:20:35SPEAKERor something like that.
1:20:36SPEAKERI don't think anybody uses the eight X.
1:20:37SPEAKERBut you but if you have an eight X card, I have a bunch of four X cards,
1:20:41SPEAKERbut I don't have a bunch of eight X cards, I don't think.
1:20:43SPEAKERI'm not saying PCI Express does not make the top 10,
1:20:45SPEAKERbut there are some downsides to OK, OK, OK.
1:20:50SPEAKERLet's see. Gosh, I don't I feel like I make a counterproposal.
1:20:57SPEAKERSure. What if we do a top 15? Oh, boy.
1:21:01SPEAKEROK, sure. Why not? It's our list. Who cares?
1:21:04SPEAKERYeah, there's nobody here to tell us no. Stop us, cop. Yeah.
1:21:08SPEAKERSo what's what's our top 15 then?
1:21:10SPEAKEROK, here's the top 15 in no particular order.
1:21:14SPEAKERYes, no particular order.
1:21:15SPEAKERModular power supplies, build friendly cases, USB, quiet operation,
1:21:22SPEAKEReverything but the computer, like being able to look stuff up on your phone.
1:21:25SPEAKERYes, we will rename that.
1:21:28SPEAKERBeing able to plug your PC into your TV, which I think is really HDMI.
1:21:32SPEAKERYeah, ubiquitous HDMI.
1:21:34SPEAKERSATA, PCI Express, the modern BIOS.
1:21:39SPEAKERBootable USB OS installers.
1:21:42SPEAKERTroubleshooting features directly on the motherboard. Hmm.
1:21:46SPEAKERNow that I'm reading that one out loud.
1:21:49SPEAKERWell, maybe you like it more than I do.
1:21:50SPEAKERI think that one's real good.
1:21:52SPEAKERJust because you buy cheap motherboards doesn't mean that the people are wrong.
1:21:54SPEAKERBrad. No, no.
1:21:55SPEAKERNow that I'm reading that out loud, I'm thinking, hmm, if this is a top 15,
1:21:59SPEAKERI wonder if there are others that I would have argued to keep.
1:22:01SPEAKERBut unfortunately, we deleted everything instead of moving it to the next list.
1:22:06SPEAKERI can sit here and hit control Y all day long, or I'm sorry, control Z.
1:22:10SPEAKERHold on. I think I can just go to the original version in the in the.
1:22:14SPEAKERIn the suggested in the compared documents.
1:22:16SPEAKERYeah, let's let's just do that.
1:22:18SPEAKEROK, troubleshooting.
1:22:20SPEAKERWe can't do this. This is the 15 as it stands.
1:22:22SPEAKERI believe we will pick this up next week and see where we get with it.
1:22:27SPEAKERIt's a little bit.
1:22:28SPEAKERYes. Troubleshooting features that are on the motherboard.
1:22:31SPEAKEREasy driver installation and updates.
1:22:33SPEAKERNot having to activate windows to install it.
1:22:36SPEAKERThat one's really good consolidation of external cards onto the motherboard,
1:22:40SPEAKERsuch as Internet, Wi-Fi, sound and graphics, which we haven't really talked about a lot.
1:22:43SPEAKERBut I feel like is way up there and headlamps.
1:22:47SPEAKERHeadlamps are awesome, man.
1:22:49SPEAKERSee, I would have if I'd known we were not going to.
1:22:52SPEAKERWhittle it down to 10, I might have kept something else over headlamps.
1:22:55SPEAKERI think, look, maybe maybe by next week I should buy a headlamp and try it out.
1:22:59SPEAKERAnd then I will change my tune.
1:23:01SPEAKERYeah. Imagine imagine having a flashlight that you don't have to hold, Brad.
1:23:05SPEAKERThat does sound pretty good.
1:23:06SPEAKERAnd then it just it just automatically is aimed wherever your eyeballs are looking.
1:23:10SPEAKERYou know, I can I can thought exercise this one the number of times that I've had to like
1:23:14SPEAKERdrag the PC into the room with the windows so I can see inside it better or.
1:23:19SPEAKERHow many times have you held a flashlight in your mouth or moved a lamp across the room?
1:23:24SPEAKERI get it. OK, all right.
1:23:25SPEAKERWell, that's provisional, but we'll talk about it.
1:23:28SPEAKERWe'll get visional.
1:23:32SPEAKERIt happens. I kind of wondered if it would happen,
1:23:34SPEAKERand sure enough, it happened just like the ranking of windows is.
1:23:37SPEAKERThis is a two parter now.
1:23:39SPEAKEROh, no, I thought I didn't know that this would go as long as it did.
1:23:42SPEAKERAre you going to record the intro?
1:23:44SPEAKERI don't know. I think it'll be fun.
1:23:46SPEAKERPeople are going to be really upset when they get there.
1:23:48SPEAKERThey're going to be looking at this.
1:23:49SPEAKERThey're going to be looking like 10 minutes ago at the time code that's left.
1:23:51SPEAKERThey'll be like, wait, I don't think there's enough time for them
1:23:54SPEAKERto make this an ordered list.
1:23:56SPEAKERAnd I feel like I've been bait and switched here.
1:23:58SPEAKERThis is how you build engagement.
1:24:00SPEAKERNo, I mean, I don't like engagement that much, I guess.
1:24:05SPEAKERBut you know what? The Mr.
1:24:06SPEAKERSofty trucks outside, so it's time to go get the first soft serve of the year.
1:24:13SPEAKERBut it's also time to thank our patrons. Yeah.
1:24:17SPEAKERAs always, thank you to all of the folks that support the tech pod on Patreon.
1:24:23SPEAKERIf you want to find out how you can do that, you can go to patreon.com/techpod
1:24:27SPEAKERwhere you can get access to the fabulous tech pod discord,
1:24:30SPEAKERwhere people talk about all sorts of interesting,
1:24:32SPEAKERinteresting things like Brad's chair posts. That's right.
1:24:35SPEAKERBut Brad, I got a question for you.
1:24:37SPEAKEROh, what standards body do you think designs the spec
1:24:42SPEAKERthat are designed to probably 100 years ago, the spec for chair wheel dongles?
1:24:48SPEAKERAn evil standards body.
1:24:49SPEAKERBecause they're all the same. Are they?
1:24:51SPEAKERThere's two different shaft sizes.
1:24:52SPEAKERDo you really think it's like are you actually embellishing?
1:24:55SPEAKERDo you really think it's 100 years old or even like close to that?
1:24:57SPEAKERI bet it's 50 years old.
1:24:58SPEAKERI bet it was designed in the 40s when office when like offices design was a thing.
1:25:03SPEAKERI have bad news for you.
1:25:04SPEAKERThe 40s was a lot longer than 50 years ago.
1:25:07SPEAKERWell, OK, 60, 70 or 80.
1:25:09SPEAKERYou know what? Like this is already a long episode.
1:25:11SPEAKERI should not digress too much.
1:25:13SPEAKERBut did you see this this notion on Twitter that was going around recently
1:25:16SPEAKERthat like I saw it and I was like, yes, yes, sure.
1:25:18SPEAKERI do the same thing where people were talking about like, hey, in your mind,
1:25:22SPEAKERwhen you think of 20 years ago, do you think of the 80s, 90s?
1:25:25SPEAKERNot the turn of the century.
1:25:26SPEAKERI think of the 90s, not the 2000s. You know what I mean?
1:25:29SPEAKERYeah, like I still this is what like a bunch of people were agreeing with.
1:25:32SPEAKERAnd I also agree with it.
1:25:33SPEAKERLike when you say 20 years ago, I think like mid 80s.
1:25:38SPEAKERYeah, no, I think about 19, like 94 when I was in college.
1:25:41SPEAKEROK, so you're a little bit more current on that.
1:25:43SPEAKER25 years instead of 20, but not much. Right.
1:25:47SPEAKERYeah. But so, yes, 1940 was a lot more than 50 years ago.
1:25:51SPEAKERBut I get where you're coming from.
1:25:52SPEAKERThe thing I did math when my daughter was born.
1:25:54SPEAKERI was like her relationship, my parents relationship, my relationship
1:25:58SPEAKERwith like the Beatles is going to be the same as her relationship
1:26:01SPEAKERwith Nirvana and Pearl Jam and stuff like that.
1:26:03SPEAKERIt's the same same time gap.
1:26:05SPEAKERWell, OK, sure. I guess that's about the same. Yeah.
1:26:08SPEAKERAnyway, we shouldn't talk about this. This is depressing.
1:26:10SPEAKERYeah. But yeah.
1:26:11SPEAKERSo on the tech by discord, you can talk about things like Brad's wheels.
1:26:15SPEAKERYou can talk about things like mechanical keyboards,
1:26:19SPEAKERaudio engineering, audio file headphones.
1:26:22SPEAKERWe have a wide variety of topics, and there's always interesting stuff
1:26:25SPEAKERhappening in the general chat,
1:26:27SPEAKERincluding people talking about stuff like new SpaceX launches and all whatever
1:26:30SPEAKERhappens to be going on.
1:26:31SPEAKERI randomly had a need to we have like a music creation channel
1:26:35SPEAKERfor people, basically musicians and audio, like audio engineering.
1:26:39SPEAKERAudio engineer totally.
1:26:40SPEAKERAnd I had a random need to talk to some people about mixing 5.1 audio.
1:26:45SPEAKEROh, really? And sure enough, there are several people there
1:26:47SPEAKERwho have plenty of experience with that. That's amazing.
1:26:50SPEAKERAnd it's so awesome to just be able to talk to people that know these subjects
1:26:53SPEAKERthat are, you know, I love it.
1:26:55SPEAKERIt's so, yeah, if you want to find out about that,
1:26:57SPEAKERyou can go to patreon dot com slash tech pod.
1:27:00SPEAKERThat's patreon dot com slash tech pod.
1:27:03SPEAKERAs always, we don't take advertising on the show.
1:27:05SPEAKERSo this is how we make money doing the podcast.
1:27:07SPEAKERThis is why we're able to keep doing it.
1:27:08SPEAKERAnd if you would like to support us, you can there for as little as two bucks
1:27:13SPEAKERa month, as always.
1:27:15SPEAKEROh, sorry, Brad.
1:27:16SPEAKERNo, no, just agreeing with you.
1:27:17SPEAKEROh, I concur, as always.
1:27:21SPEAKERThank you to our executive producer, to your patrons, including.
1:27:26SPEAKEROh, no, it's clipping out.
1:27:27SPEAKERI can't see the side of the thing.
1:27:29SPEAKERI got to stretch. I got to fill headlamps.
1:27:31SPEAKEROh, boy, that sounds like a good idea.
1:27:34SPEAKERI should go find some headlamps.
1:27:36SPEAKERWhat you got? Including Cedric Katzenmacher,
1:27:39SPEAKERthe Bunny Fiend, Jacob Chappell, David Allen and James Kamik.
1:27:42SPEAKERThank you all so much for supporting the show.
1:27:44SPEAKERWe appreciate you so much.
1:27:45SPEAKERYes. And if you'd like to, like I said,
1:27:47SPEAKERif you want to support the show, you can go to patreon.com/techpod.
1:27:51SPEAKERHey, also, thanks to everybody who bought Girl Scout cookies for my daughter.
1:27:53SPEAKERWe blew through all of her goals.
1:27:55SPEAKERNice. They extended the cookie sales.
1:27:57SPEAKERSo they're still available at cookies dot tech cookies dot content dot town.
1:28:03SPEAKERThat's right. But yeah, thank you.
1:28:05SPEAKERThanks, everybody who bought them.
1:28:06SPEAKERAnd I hope you enjoy your Girl Scout cookies.
1:28:07SPEAKERWe really appreciate it
1:28:09SPEAKERbecause that pays for Girl Scout activities all year.
1:28:11SPEAKERAnd that's that's fabulous.
1:28:13SPEAKERSo I guess that's it for us this week.
1:28:16SPEAKERThat's right. We're leaving with some unfinished business,
1:28:19SPEAKERbut we'll be back next week.
1:28:20SPEAKERI mean, who would have thought starting with a list of 20 things
1:28:23SPEAKERwould get us all the way down to I think we started the list of 30 things.
1:28:26SPEAKERWe've got them in half. I told you it would be rank.
1:28:29SPEAKERWe might. Yeah, man, I shouldn't have taken a shower this morning.
1:28:32SPEAKERWe might should get down to maybe we should maybe we should cut this next week.
1:28:36SPEAKERI don't know. We should keep cutting.
1:28:37SPEAKERI think we can get to 10.
1:28:39SPEAKERHey, you know what? We make the rules.
1:28:40SPEAKERIt's true. We are the law by everybody.
1:28:46SPEAKER[music]