00:00SPEAKERYou think you could take a leave on an empty stomach?
00:02SPEAKERI don't believe in a leave.
00:03SPEAKERWhy not, what?
00:04SPEAKERWhat's not to believe about a leave?
00:08SPEAKERIt's too much of a time, it's too much of a commitment.
00:10SPEAKERLike if I hurt and it's good for what,
00:13SPEAKERlike six days or something, 12 hours,
00:15SPEAKERI don't know, a long time.
00:17SPEAKERFirst off, not medical professionals here.
00:19SPEAKERThis is a technology podcast, not a medicine podcast.
00:22SPEAKERMaybe you're not.
00:25SPEAKERI live with one.
00:25SPEAKERLike, I've always been afraid to take it
00:28SPEAKER'cause if I hurt, I want the hurt to go away.
00:30SPEAKERAnd if I can't take another one for like 12 hours,
00:33SPEAKERthat's too long.
00:34SPEAKERWell, how else are you gonna make the hurt go away
00:36SPEAKERif you don't take drugs?
00:37SPEAKERI'd take Advil.
00:39SPEAKERI can take those again in like four hours.
00:41SPEAKERWhat's the difference?
00:42SPEAKERFunctionally, what is the difference
00:43SPEAKERbetween Advil and a leave?
00:44SPEAKERThey're both pills.
00:45SPEAKERThey're both painkillers.
00:47SPEAKERI've never taken a leave before,
00:48SPEAKERbut I've taken Advil my whole life.
00:50SPEAKERExcept one is an anti-inflammatory
00:52SPEAKERand the other one is?
00:53SPEAKERThey're both NSAIDs.
00:54SPEAKERFill in the blank.
00:55SPEAKEROh, you mean NSAIDs?
00:57SPEAKERIs that how the medical professionals say it?
00:59SPEAKERWell, I have a leave in my hand.
01:01SPEAKERI have a cup of coffee here.
01:02SPEAKERIt is 8.18 in the morning.
01:04SPEAKERWell, so if you drink the coffee,
01:05SPEAKERit won't be an empty stomach anymore.
01:07SPEAKERMission accomplished.
01:08SPEAKERWait, that doesn't count as food.
01:09SPEAKERYeah, it's food.
01:10SPEAKERIt goes in your stomach.
01:11SPEAKERIs it in your tummy?
01:12SPEAKERYeah.
01:13SPEAKERYeah, if it's in your tum-tum, it's food.
01:15SPEAKERIt's liquid and it has like no calories in it, right?
01:19SPEAKERIt has oil and nutrients.
01:22SPEAKERIs it literally zero calories?
01:24SPEAKERIt's literally zero calories.
01:25SPEAKERIs it really?
01:26SPEAKERIf you don't put milk or sugar in it.
01:27SPEAKEROh yeah, no, I'm straight black over here.
01:28SPEAKERBlack like your heart.
01:29SPEAKERThat's right.
01:31SPEAKERI messed up my neck something fierce
01:33SPEAKERdoing a workout yesterday and it hurts a lot.
01:35SPEAKEROh no.
01:36SPEAKERAnd I'm old.
01:37SPEAKERWait, how are you working out?
01:38SPEAKERYou got a gym in there now?
01:39SPEAKERNo, I got some hand weights
01:40SPEAKERand we talked about that on the self-care episode
01:44SPEAKERa few weeks ago. Oh yeah.
01:44SPEAKERI got that app.
01:45SPEAKERSeven minutes of hell.
01:48SPEAKERI got the ring fit.
01:50SPEAKERAnd we've literally used it like three times.
01:52SPEAKERI didn't like the ring fit, it turns out.
01:53SPEAKERI waited all that time.
01:55SPEAKERYou could probably offload that thing for
01:57SPEAKERat least most of what you paid for it.
01:59SPEAKERThey're pretty readily available now.
02:00SPEAKERIt's not really a vendor markup situation.
02:03SPEAKERWell, you just make somebody's face.
02:04SPEAKERWe use the resistance band.
02:06SPEAKERThe resistance band is nice for other exercises.
02:08SPEAKERAll right, here we go.
02:10SPEAKERMm-hmm.
02:11SPEAKERHere it goes.
02:12SPEAKERYou're gonna take this empty stomach to leave?
02:14SPEAKER12 hour, it's a commitment.
02:15SPEAKER12 hours of 12 hours of no pain.
02:19SPEAKERI could barely move my head right now, man.
02:20SPEAKERI gotta do something.
02:22SPEAKERI, you know, is this possible?
02:23SPEAKERIt's related, it could be related to your dual monitors.
02:27SPEAKERWhat?
02:28SPEAKERAre you spending more time looking left or right?
02:29SPEAKERWell, yes, but I've been doing that
02:31SPEAKERfor the last three year or two.
02:34SPEAKERBut are you spending more time at the desk now
02:36SPEAKERthan you were in the past?
02:37SPEAKERYes.
02:38SPEAKERI jacked up my neck pretty good
02:40SPEAKERbecause I was looking at the chat monitor too much
02:42SPEAKERand now I just ignore chat and everything's better.
02:44SPEAKERSorry, chat.
02:45SPEAKERThat's good, that's probably good advice.
02:47SPEAKERI've also been spending some time in VR
02:49SPEAKERfor the first time in like a year.
02:51SPEAKERYou've been squandering?
02:51SPEAKERYes.
02:53SPEAKEROoh.
02:54SPEAKERPlayStation version, which is a little grindy.
02:58SPEAKERWell, the PC version has problems
03:02SPEAKERwith high frame rate displays and VR headsets, so.
03:05SPEAKERYes, I went with the one that would just work.
03:08SPEAKERIf I turn it all the way down, like all the way down,
03:11SPEAKERI can get an almost playable frame rate.
03:13SPEAKERHuh, okay.
03:13SPEAKERAnd then it looks like a PS2 game.
03:15SPEAKERI chose wisely.
03:16SPEAKERYeah.
03:17SPEAKEROkay, well, I think we firmly established
03:19SPEAKERthat neither of us is a gastroenterologist,
03:21SPEAKERso we don't know what's gonna happen
03:22SPEAKERwith my Aleve situation.
03:24SPEAKERYeah.
03:24SPEAKERBut I'm drugged up and ready to podcast, so.
03:27SPEAKERHave you ever seen "Alien Bread"?
03:29SPEAKERLet's just move on.
03:31SPEAKER(upbeat music)
03:52SPEAKER(upbeat music continues)
04:01SPEAKERWelcome to "Brad and Will Made a Tech Bot."
04:03SPEAKERI'm Will.
04:04SPEAKERI'm Brad, hello, hi.
04:05SPEAKERHello, are you still there?
04:06SPEAKEREverything okay?
04:07SPEAKERYeah, I was about to cough,
04:08SPEAKERbut I am suppressing it right now.
04:10SPEAKERYeah, no, don't cough.
04:11SPEAKERI didn't take a cough suppressant.
04:12SPEAKERI just took that Aleve, but.
04:13SPEAKEROkay.
04:14SPEAKERWe'll see how things go.
04:15SPEAKERAt one.
04:16SPEAKERThat's impossible.
04:17SPEAKERLiterally impossible.
04:18SPEAKERHome assistant told me that's the case,
04:19SPEAKERand home assistant does not lie.
04:20SPEAKERThis is the zero particulate matter that is not-
04:23SPEAKERSo it was one.
04:24SPEAKERThat's not something-
04:25SPEAKEROne particulate matter.
04:26SPEAKEROh, I see, okay.
04:27SPEAKERYeah, it's in the index.
04:28SPEAKERYou mean the PM2.5 was one, or the Ozone one?
04:31SPEAKERThe AQI was one.
04:32SPEAKERAlthough the full aggregate was one.
04:34SPEAKERYeah, the full aggregate.
04:35SPEAKERThe American Air Quality Institute of America said,
04:39SPEAKERthey looked deep into the heart of our air,
04:41SPEAKERand they said, "Hey, this is a one, dog."
04:44SPEAKERWell, maybe the particulates were zero,
04:45SPEAKERand the ozone was bringing that number up.
04:47SPEAKERIt could be, it could be.
04:49SPEAKEROr it could have been some sort of methane emission
04:52SPEAKERin the immediate vicinity of my house.
04:54SPEAKEROf your sensor, right.
04:56SPEAKEROh, well, we're in the green right now, so.
04:59SPEAKERYeah.
04:59SPEAKERI think some windows are gonna get opened
05:00SPEAKERaround here after this.
05:01SPEAKEROoh, fancy.
05:03SPEAKERLet's see if we're still green in, say, 45-ish minutes.
05:06SPEAKERAnyway-
05:07SPEAKERYou're gonna get that cross ventilation going?
05:08SPEAKERYou get windows open on both sides of the apartment,
05:09SPEAKERblow straight through there?
05:11SPEAKERCould do that cross breeze, man.
05:12SPEAKERJust turn this place into a wind tunnel.
05:14SPEAKERYeah, please.
05:16SPEAKERWhat are we talking about today, Brad?
05:17SPEAKERChips, chiplets.
05:19SPEAKERI love, oh man, I love chiplets.
05:20SPEAKERIt's almost time for Thanksgiving.
05:21SPEAKERGotta make that gravy.
05:23SPEAKERCarve 'em up, serve 'em in the gravy boat.
05:26SPEAKERDump it all over the chiplet.
05:27SPEAKERNo, that's not what we're talking about.
05:28SPEAKERWait, oh, you said chiplet.
05:30SPEAKERYes.
05:31SPEAKEROh, that's fun, too.
05:33SPEAKERCentral processing unitlets.
05:35SPEAKEROoh, I do like these.
05:36SPEAKERIs what we're talking about here.
05:37SPEAKERThis is a cool idea.
05:38SPEAKERYeah.
05:39SPEAKERYeah, AMD announced their Zen 3 line of,
05:43SPEAKERwell, I should say Zen 3 microarchitecture.
05:46SPEAKERThe new Ryzen, the new Ryzen 5000 series
05:49SPEAKERbased on the Zen 3 microarchitecture.
05:52SPEAKERDid they name Zen based on the Half-Life 1,
05:55SPEAKERthe final levels of Half-Life 1?
05:56SPEAKERNo, 'cause that was XEN, wasn't it?
05:58SPEAKERLook, it's impossible to say.
06:00SPEAKERI don't think it's impossible.
06:02SPEAKERIt's difficult, and by difficult,
06:05SPEAKERI mean a Google search away.
06:08SPEAKEROh.
06:09SPEAKERYes.
06:10SPEAKERYeah, it's ZEN.
06:10SPEAKERYou're absolutely right.
06:11SPEAKERXEN, Half-Life, ZEN.
06:14SPEAKERI mean, like, whatever, you look at all the imagery
06:18SPEAKERthey use around the marketing of these chips.
06:20SPEAKERThere's a lot of like sort of Eastern looking
06:21SPEAKERbrush stroke type animations and stuff.
06:24SPEAKERYeah.
06:24SPEAKERLike I think that is very much leaning into a, you know.
06:29SPEAKERA little bit of this, a little bit of that.
06:30SPEAKERSort of, yeah, Eastern kind of Buddhist sort of styling
06:34SPEAKERis what they've got going on there.
06:35SPEAKERSo I guess the Buddhism is probably
06:37SPEAKERwhere it comes from then.
06:38SPEAKERI think they're saying these processors
06:40SPEAKERare so fast and efficient and massively parallel
06:44SPEAKERthat you will go to a better place.
06:47SPEAKERA state of nirvana when you use them
06:49SPEAKERis what they're trying to say.
06:50SPEAKERThat sounds pretty good.
06:52SPEAKERI like nirvana.
06:53SPEAKERYeah.
06:55SPEAKERI'm gonna stop.
06:56SPEAKERYeah.
06:57SPEAKERBut no, what's going on?
06:58SPEAKERI'm pretty excited about these.
06:59SPEAKERI'm on a...
07:01SPEAKERYeah.
07:02SPEAKERGo on, go on.
07:02SPEAKERThese look really good.
07:03SPEAKERThey look like very competent to best in class
07:06SPEAKERat their price points for sure.
07:08SPEAKERAnd even at the high end now,
07:11SPEAKERchips, assuming the benchmarks, like the...
07:14SPEAKERSo this is like the paper launch
07:15SPEAKERwhere they tell us what's inside the chips,
07:17SPEAKERnot where they give reviewers a bunch of CPU's.
07:21SPEAKERApparently that's coming pretty soon
07:22SPEAKER'cause they're launching November 5th
07:24SPEAKERand I saw at least one hardware site
07:25SPEAKERsaying that their review samples are in the mail now.
07:29SPEAKERYeah.
07:30SPEAKERYeah, so I have heard from multiple people
07:32SPEAKERthat review samples, if they haven't arrived yet,
07:35SPEAKERare on the way.
07:35SPEAKERAnd they were saying, so basically the top level stuff
07:41SPEAKERis that this is a new, a front to back redesign
07:44SPEAKERof the Zen architecture, the chiplet design
07:47SPEAKERthat's been in the first two generations of Ryzen chips.
07:51SPEAKERAnd it's running on the seven nanometer TSMC process.
07:56SPEAKERAnd they are...
07:59SPEAKERLook, I'm always skeptical of vendor benchmarks,
08:01SPEAKERbut the way that they did this looks fair.
08:04SPEAKERIf you know, I would describe it as maybe selectively chosen
08:09SPEAKERbut not outright cooked in terms of the benchmark numbers.
08:13SPEAKERThey said it's 19% more instructions per clock cycle.
08:18SPEAKERThat's the big one.
08:19SPEAKERYeah, which is an aggregate number based on,
08:22SPEAKERas they said, the geometric mean of 25 benchmarks.
08:25SPEAKERSo as opposed to other types of mean,
08:28SPEAKERI'm not sure what makes that distinct
08:30SPEAKERother than being geometric, but like that,
08:33SPEAKERthat is the big story here because that is the one place
08:35SPEAKERthat AMD was still lagging behind Intel, right?
08:38SPEAKER- Well, as a single core performance in gaming,
08:41SPEAKERthey had problems.
08:42SPEAKER- Those are kind of hand in hand, right?
08:43SPEAKER- Yeah.
08:44SPEAKER- Because a lot of games still are not making
08:46SPEAKERlike massive use of multiple cores, right?
08:48SPEAKER- That's it.
08:50SPEAKERMost games, even if they do use multiple cores,
08:52SPEAKERso like I often use PUBG as this example,
08:56SPEAKEReven though it's not particularly CPU bound,
08:58SPEAKERbut you have one main thread
09:01SPEAKERthat needs a really fast processor.
09:03SPEAKERAnd then a lot of other stuff runs on secondary threads
09:05SPEAKERlike audio and physics and things like that.
09:08SPEAKER- Right.
09:09SPEAKER- So if that main thread is slow,
09:11SPEAKERthen it chokes the whole thing
09:13SPEAKERand you run at the speed of the main thread
09:15SPEAKERrather than, you're not, if you're playing most games,
09:19SPEAKERyou're not taking advantage of six, eight, 12 CPU cores
09:26SPEAKERwith two threads a piece.
09:27SPEAKER- As opposed to like a Photoshop or a Maya
09:30SPEAKERor a you name your media heavy productivity application,
09:33SPEAKERwhich would.
09:34SPEAKER- So Photoshop's weird 'cause Photoshop doesn't,
09:37SPEAKERit's multi-threaded, but not like,
09:39SPEAKERthere are filters that are multi-threaded,
09:40SPEAKERbut I feel like if you're using,
09:42SPEAKERif you're just resizing your photos and stuff like that,
09:44SPEAKERyou're probably not gonna see a whole lot of multi-threading.
09:47SPEAKER- That's fine.
09:48SPEAKERI mean, like static image processing got fast years ago.
09:50SPEAKERThat's not a huge thing.
09:52SPEAKER- Yeah, but like video and code and stuff like that.
09:54SPEAKERVideo and code will use as many cores
09:56SPEAKERas you can throw at it.
09:58SPEAKER- Well, that's actually like big for me
10:00SPEAKERwith all the stuff we're doing at home now.
10:01SPEAKERLike I was working with a 175 gigabyte ProRes file
10:06SPEAKERon my NAS the other day.
10:08SPEAKERAnd I think if that thing has a 6,700 K in it,
10:10SPEAKERand I actually needed to crunch that video down
10:12SPEAKERto like a usable H.264, right?
10:15SPEAKER- Yeah, that's gonna take a minute.
10:17SPEAKER- To upload to people.
10:18SPEAKERAnd yeah, that took a while on that old,
10:19SPEAKERthat five-year-old quad core CPU.
10:22SPEAKER- Right, it's time to upgrade.
10:24SPEAKER- I kind of wanna put one of these things in my NAS now.
10:27SPEAKER- I mean, that's a really,
10:30SPEAKERassuming they're supported properly on,
10:33SPEAKERI mean, look, I think when you move to Linux,
10:35SPEAKERthat makes a lot of sense.
10:36SPEAKERI wonder what the BSD support for Ryzen is like.
10:38SPEAKER- My superficial understanding is that Linux
10:41SPEAKERis pretty good on AMD these days.
10:42SPEAKERThe free BSD, less so.
10:45SPEAKERIn fact, also, boy, this is going off
10:49SPEAKERin a million tangents.
10:49SPEAKERWe have to get used to saying true NAS
10:52SPEAKERinstead of free NAS.
10:53SPEAKER- Oh, right.
10:54SPEAKER- Free NAS is about a week or two away
10:56SPEAKERfrom not being a going concern anymore.
10:58SPEAKER- Oh, wow, okay.
11:00SPEAKER- True NAS 12 is coming out any day now.
11:02SPEAKER- I've stayed away from the scene drama.
11:03SPEAKERWe really need to think about spinning up
11:05SPEAKERthat second podcast called Scene Drama
11:07SPEAKERthat's just us digging into the scene drama
11:08SPEAKERin different open source projects.
11:10SPEAKER- I just wanna be trawling the discussion forums
11:12SPEAKERand mailing lists of open source projects,
11:14SPEAKERlooking for people sniping at each other all day long.
11:18SPEAKERJust dramatic readings of people getting mad
11:20SPEAKERabout library incompatibility.
11:23SPEAKER- Right, is somebody upset about your-
11:26SPEAKER- All of my interests converging.
11:27SPEAKER- Is somebody upset about your header file formatting
11:29SPEAKERon an open source project?
11:30SPEAKERSend us a note to scenedrama.content.town.
11:34SPEAKER- I mean, I think we've talked about it before,
11:35SPEAKERbut I should like the err example of that is,
11:38SPEAKERI've complained about this when FFmpeg
11:40SPEAKERpulled the NDI support out.
11:42SPEAKER- Yep.
11:43SPEAKER- Because NewTek screwed around and violated their license.
11:46SPEAKER- I mean, rightly so, they pulled their support, yes.
11:49SPEAKER- It's somebody high level from NewTek in that thread,
11:51SPEAKERlike the CTO or somebody, like I looked them up,
11:53SPEAKERit was like, this is a major figure at this company
11:56SPEAKERthat makes the TriCaster being lambasted
11:59SPEAKERby like half a dozen people from the FFmpeg project,
12:01SPEAKERjust like yelling at this guy.
12:04SPEAKERAnd he's just like flailing around
12:05SPEAKERtrying to defend what they did and like smooth things over
12:08SPEAKERso their relationship can continue
12:09SPEAKERand these guys are just not having it.
12:12SPEAKER- So this is a tangent and I apologize,
12:14SPEAKERbut like the first time that happened,
12:16SPEAKERit was like Logitech or somebody that did that.
12:18SPEAKERLike one of the early, early cases that I read about
12:20SPEAKERon Slashdot in the early 2000s or late 90s even,
12:23SPEAKERwas I wanna say it was Logitech
12:25SPEAKERhad used some open source code in a project
12:29SPEAKERand then didn't do the disclosures, yeah.
12:35SPEAKERAnd people got really like,
12:38SPEAKERI'm sure that there are still people
12:39SPEAKERin the Linux community, it might not have been Logitech,
12:41SPEAKERif it is, I apologize.
12:43SPEAKERBut yeah, I'm sure there are still people
12:44SPEAKERin the open source community that are like,
12:45SPEAKERfuck those guys, I'm not using their hardware ever again.
12:47SPEAKER- Those grudges last, I mean, I get it, man.
12:50SPEAKERIf you're gonna put that much work for free into something,
12:52SPEAKERyou kind of want people to respect the work, right?
12:54SPEAKER- Yeah, so okay, so this is third generation 10.
12:58SPEAKERIf you don't know what Zen is,
13:00SPEAKERbasically they looked a few years ago
13:04SPEAKERand said, hey, Moore's law kind of slowing down,
13:07SPEAKERthe process technology's slowing down,
13:08SPEAKERhow can we continue to make CPUs fast
13:11SPEAKERwithout relying on less power, more computation
13:16SPEAKERthat you get from shrinking process size?
13:18SPEAKERAnd they said, oh, okay, so we're gonna put our CPUs
13:22SPEAKERon these triplet designs,
13:23SPEAKERwhich A, helps them maintain the yield
13:25SPEAKERso they can build smaller, easier to manufacture chips
13:31SPEAKERand then jam them onto a die together.
13:34SPEAKER- Yeah, as opposed to the Intel model
13:36SPEAKERof just one giant die that has every core on it,
13:38SPEAKERand then if they get chips off the wafer that aren't bad,
13:43SPEAKERthat don't hold up, that they bend poorly,
13:45SPEAKERyou just kind of have to toss it, right?
13:46SPEAKER- Well, or they burn out, they disabled chunks of it.
13:50SPEAKER- So I don't mean they literally throw it in the trash,
13:51SPEAKERbut you know what I mean?
13:52SPEAKERIt's not up to spec for the thing
13:54SPEAKERthey would like to sell it for.
13:55SPEAKERWhereas they're just making the components of these chips
13:59SPEAKERor these CPUs in smaller parts
14:01SPEAKERthat can then be combined together,
14:04SPEAKERwhich apparently I guess that had
14:05SPEAKERsome kind of latency implications
14:07SPEAKERthat they have improved on in this design,
14:08SPEAKERwhich we'll get to.
14:09SPEAKER- Well, yeah, so basically they would put,
14:12SPEAKERthe triplets would be centered around an L3 cache
14:15SPEAKERwhere they would have the part that does the math,
14:18SPEAKERthe compute unit centered around a little chunk of memory
14:20SPEAKERthat was like eight, 10, 16 megs, or gigs rather.
14:23SPEAKERIs the L3 the fastest one or the slowest one?
14:25SPEAKER- Slowest one, so the L1 is the fastest one.
14:28SPEAKERUsually L1 is measured in kilobytes
14:30SPEAKERor maybe megabytes now.
14:33SPEAKERSo these caches are where,
14:35SPEAKERthese caches are kind of like the,
14:37SPEAKERwhile things are happening on the CPU,
14:40SPEAKERhere's the memory that's being used.
14:42SPEAKERSo each cache, so you have your system RAM
14:45SPEAKERand then L3 cache is faster,
14:47SPEAKERlike probably an order of magnitude
14:48SPEAKERfaster than the system RAM.
14:50SPEAKERAnd then L2 cache is faster than that.
14:52SPEAKERL1 cache is faster than the L2 even.
14:55SPEAKER- But also with, there's an inverse relationship
14:57SPEAKERbetween the speed and the size, right?
14:59SPEAKERThe faster the cache, the smaller it is,
15:01SPEAKERso the less it has to work with.
15:02SPEAKERBut, and also like the closer to the die it is, right?
15:05SPEAKERLike I assume the L1 cache is right there in the core.
15:08SPEAKER- So yeah, so in this case,
15:11SPEAKERthe L3 cache is how the different processors,
15:14SPEAKERcores talk to each other.
15:16SPEAKERSo like in the old days,
15:18SPEAKERwhen Intel started doing dual core CPUs,
15:23SPEAKERwhere there were just two CPU dies slapped onto a CPU package
15:27SPEAKERin order to talk to each other,
15:28SPEAKERthey couldn't talk on the die or on the package.
15:30SPEAKERThey had to go all the way up to the PCI express bus
15:33SPEAKERand into system memory and then all the way back out.
15:35SPEAKER- That sounds so slow, horribly inefficient.
15:37SPEAKER- It wasn't great.
15:39SPEAKERWe have learned a lot about how to design chips
15:42SPEAKERand that is, it turns out not the way to do it.
15:44SPEAKERTalking across L3 cache is very effective
15:47SPEAKERand works well.
15:49SPEAKERAnd so the big, and it seems like the big thing
15:52SPEAKERin this design is that previously the chiplet,
15:56SPEAKERwhat is it they call them?
15:57SPEAKERCompute cores?
15:59SPEAKER- CC, core complex, I believe is the term
16:01SPEAKERthat they're using.
16:02SPEAKERAnd now that's, I mean, that's kind of a marketing earth,
16:04SPEAKERyou know, they came up with that term themselves.
16:05SPEAKERThat's, you could kind of call it whatever you want,
16:08SPEAKERbut core complex, yes.
16:11SPEAKER- It's basically like the smallest unit of the chip
16:13SPEAKERthat you can get.
16:15SPEAKERAnd previously those were four cores
16:17SPEAKERwith 16 megs of cache, I think.
16:19SPEAKERAnd now each, so if you had an eight core design,
16:22SPEAKERyou'd have two of those and then the L3 cache,
16:25SPEAKERfour of the cores could talk to one set of L3 cache.
16:27SPEAKERThe other four cores would talk to another L3 cache
16:30SPEAKERand then they'd have to go across the die to, yeah.
16:33SPEAKER- Sorry, they put out a slide along with this presentation
16:35SPEAKERthat was incredibly illustrative for me.
16:37SPEAKERAnd this is getting into ultra nerdy hardware territory,
16:42SPEAKERbut if you're not into that stuff,
16:43SPEAKERwhy are you listening to this podcast, I guess?
16:45SPEAKERSo here we go.
16:47SPEAKERBut I had naively assumed before I'd looked at the slide
16:51SPEAKERthat every chiplet was its own chip,
16:53SPEAKERlike physical chip on the package, right?
16:56SPEAKERYeah, that is absolutely not the case.
16:58SPEAKERI guess that makes sense 'cause that's just like probably
17:01SPEAKERtoo small of a thing to fabricate.
17:03SPEAKER- Well, in some cases, like on those thread rippers,
17:06SPEAKERthey are though, like there will be multiple chiplets
17:08SPEAKERon underneath the heat spreader.
17:10SPEAKER- Okay, well, yeah.
17:11SPEAKERSo that, I guess it's kind of what they're doing here,
17:12SPEAKERbut it's more multiple cores per chiplet is the thing.
17:15SPEAKERIt's not one core to one chiplet,
17:18SPEAKERwhich is what I thought it was.
17:19SPEAKERDoes that make sense?
17:21SPEAKER- Yeah, no, no, you're right about that.
17:22SPEAKERYeah, so the chiplets are centered around the L3 cache.
17:27SPEAKERThat's the thing to remember.
17:28SPEAKER- Well, I think the L3 cache is part of the chiplet
17:31SPEAKERis what I'm getting from this.
17:33SPEAKERLike a chiplet quote unquote is like multi,
17:35SPEAKERis a number of cores and the cache in one die, I believe.
17:40SPEAKER- That's correct.
17:42SPEAKERSo what they've done here is up to the number of cores
17:44SPEAKERper chiplet, if that makes sense, right?
17:46SPEAKERExcuse me, roughly.
17:48SPEAKER- Yeah, so yeah, they've upped the number of cores
17:53SPEAKERper chiplet and changed the way that they talk
17:56SPEAKERto each other inside those chiplets.
17:57SPEAKERSo in the last gen chiplets,
17:59SPEAKERif you had an eight core chiplet,
18:01SPEAKERyou would get two, essentially two discrete four core units
18:06SPEAKERcentered around discrete L3 caches.
18:09SPEAKERNow it's one monolithic 32 megabyte L3 or gigabyte.
18:13SPEAKER- Yes. - Megabyte?
18:14SPEAKERI can't remember. - Megabytes, yes.
18:16SPEAKER- Megabyte, 32 megabyte L3 cache.
18:19SPEAKER- Basically the upshot is to get an eight core chip here.
18:22SPEAKERIn the past on Zen 2, you had two chiplets
18:25SPEAKERthat were four cores and some cache each.
18:27SPEAKERAnd now you just have one chiplet that is eight cores
18:30SPEAKERand one giant pool of cache each.
18:31SPEAKER- That's it, that's it.
18:33SPEAKER- The cores are more tightly integrated
18:35SPEAKERand interconnected than they used to be,
18:36SPEAKERwhich is a big part of where they're saying the performance
18:39SPEAKERgains are coming from.
18:40SPEAKER- So then my question is,
18:42SPEAKERI think what the high-end chip in this is a 12 core,
18:45SPEAKERsorry, yeah, 12, 16 thread, 16 core 32 threads.
18:50SPEAKERSo that's two of these chiplets.
18:51SPEAKERThere's a 12, six core 12 thread,
18:54SPEAKERwhich I assume is one and a half of these, probably.
18:58SPEAKER- So they are making, they are fabricating two chiplets.
19:00SPEAKERThere's an eight core chiplet and a six core chiplet.
19:03SPEAKER- Oh, okay.
19:03SPEAKER- So therefore the four CPUs they announced are six, eight,
19:07SPEAKER12, and 16 cores.
19:08SPEAKERSo for the, you know, for the six core,
19:11SPEAKERwhat is that the 5,600?
19:13SPEAKER- That's the 5,600.
19:14SPEAKERThat could be one that doesn't bin two.
19:17SPEAKER- Possibly, but so that's what they're saying
19:19SPEAKERis that that one would be a one six core chiplet.
19:22SPEAKERAnd then the 12 core, which is, I think is the 5,900 X
19:25SPEAKERwould be two of those six core.
19:27SPEAKER- Two of the six cores, okay, interesting.
19:29SPEAKER- So they're saying that's a big part
19:30SPEAKERof where the performance gains are coming from
19:32SPEAKERis that these chiplets just are not talking
19:34SPEAKERacross as many bottleneck interconnects.
19:37SPEAKER- Interesting.
19:39SPEAKER- That is my understanding.
19:40SPEAKER- Okay, so I mean, look, anytime you can take out
19:45SPEAKERa bottleneck and let the cores talk to each other better,
19:47SPEAKERthe multi-threading performance is gonna get better.
19:49SPEAKERThat's the lesson of the first 10 years of multi-core,
19:53SPEAKER15 years of multi-core CPU design.
19:55SPEAKER- Right.
19:57SPEAKER- The other stuff that's changed, I mean,
20:00SPEAKERit's pretty much like the, so double L3 cache
20:05SPEAKERper core complex, which is good.
20:07SPEAKER- Yeah.
20:09SPEAKER- They're saying that they've made the floating point
20:12SPEAKERin energy units were wider and more flexible
20:15SPEAKERwith lower latency than they had before,
20:17SPEAKERwhich I assume is the latency is related
20:19SPEAKERto the not having to go across buses
20:21SPEAKERto talk to different cores.
20:22SPEAKER- Yeah, they put out a whole breakdown of like,
20:25SPEAKERhere's where this 19% higher IPC that we're claiming
20:29SPEAKERis coming from, and it's like, oh, 4% is from this,
20:32SPEAKERand 2.5% is from this, and it's a lot of branch prediction
20:36SPEAKERand hardcore CPU design stuff that I barely understand.
20:39SPEAKER- Yeah, the branch prediction stuff
20:40SPEAKERis always interesting to me, because basically,
20:43SPEAKERwhat they're doing with that is they just calculate
20:46SPEAKERmultiple potential outcomes of what the next math
20:49SPEAKERis gonna be that you request, so that it's just done
20:51SPEAKERwhen you ask for it, which is--
20:52SPEAKER- Right, so you just pluck the correct answer
20:55SPEAKERfrom the pool of answers instead of having
20:56SPEAKERto do it on the spot.
20:57SPEAKERYeah, that makes sense.
20:58SPEAKER- Yeah, it's a trip.
21:00SPEAKER- Is it worth stepping back real quick
21:02SPEAKERand talking about, I don't know if this is getting
21:05SPEAKERin the weeds or if this is too basic,
21:07SPEAKERlike the difference between instruction set architecture
21:09SPEAKERand microarchitecture, because I feel like a lot of people
21:12SPEAKERjust shorthand both of those two architecture.
21:15SPEAKER- I think those are basically the same thing, aren't they?
21:17SPEAKERI don't know.
21:17SPEAKER- No, like instruction set architecture
21:19SPEAKERis something like x86 or ARM or PowerPC.
21:22SPEAKER- Oh.
21:22SPEAKER- That's literally just the instructions
21:24SPEAKERthat make up this type of CPU.
21:25SPEAKER- So it's like the machine code,
21:26SPEAKERif you're writing machine code for a x86-64 computer,
21:30SPEAKERthat's what you're writing now?
21:31SPEAKER- Essentially, yes, but it's even lower level than that
21:33SPEAKERin that it's just the spec that includes those instructions.
21:36SPEAKERWriting the machine code is how you interact
21:38SPEAKERwith the instructions.
21:39SPEAKER- Okay.
21:40SPEAKER- You get what I mean?
21:41SPEAKERLike x86 is an instruction set architecture.
21:43SPEAKER- Yeah.
21:44SPEAKER- And then there's like x86-64 on top of that,
21:46SPEAKERwhich are extensions to that, et cetera, et cetera.
21:48SPEAKERI know we, boy, skinny pig breakfast time.
21:50SPEAKER- The weaking of the pigs.
21:52SPEAKER- I know we talked about that some
21:53SPEAKERwith the ARM Nvidia episode.
21:56SPEAKER- Yeah.
21:57SPEAKER- A microarchitecture is something like ZEN1, ZEN2, ZEN3,
22:00SPEAKERor like on Intel, like Skylake is an example of that.
22:03SPEAKERThose are implementations of the instruction set.
22:06SPEAKER- So one is a subset of the other.
22:08SPEAKER- Kind of, yes.
22:09SPEAKER- Yeah, the microarchitecture is a subset
22:11SPEAKERof the instruction set.
22:12SPEAKER- And I just see a lot of people just abbreviate
22:14SPEAKERboth of those two architecture,
22:15SPEAKERwhich kind of confuses the issue, I think, because--
22:18SPEAKER- I've always done that, Brad.
22:19SPEAKER- Oh, I know, I have too, but I think the reason
22:21SPEAKERI bring it up is it helps illustrate why these things
22:23SPEAKERcan be faster than the previous generation,
22:25SPEAKERbecause they've gone in there and tinkered with how,
22:28SPEAKERlike you said, how branch prediction works
22:30SPEAKERand how things are executed in the internals,
22:32SPEAKEReven though it's still x86, right?
22:34SPEAKER- Well, and you're still running the same low-level,
22:37SPEAKERif you compile an application, the same code will run
22:40SPEAKERon this processor in the last generation
22:41SPEAKERand an Intel processor.
22:42SPEAKER- Right, right.
22:45SPEAKER- It just may run better on one than the other.
22:46SPEAKER- Right, and part of the reason I bring that up
22:47SPEAKERis 'cause I wanted to compare these chips
22:49SPEAKERto where Intel is at, which I guess
22:51SPEAKERwe'll get to a little later.
22:53SPEAKER- I mean, I think we--
22:54SPEAKER- Intel has been very stagnant because all of their chips
22:56SPEAKERfor the last five generations of their chips
22:59SPEAKERhave all been on that same Skylake microarchitecture,
23:01SPEAKERwhich is getting extremely long in the tooth now.
23:04SPEAKER- Well, and also, I mean, look, this is a difference in,
23:07SPEAKERthis is the thing that AMD has done well
23:10SPEAKERover the previous generation, both with this
23:12SPEAKERand with the original Athlon too.
23:14SPEAKERThey looked at where the market was going
23:16SPEAKERand they were like, hmm, Intel was building Pentium 4s
23:19SPEAKERat the time, was building these really deep,
23:21SPEAKERhighly dependent on good prediction pipelines
23:24SPEAKERin their microarchitectures.
23:26SPEAKERAnd AMD was like, I don't think that's the right way to go.
23:28SPEAKERAnd they spun out this Athlon, the Athlon microarchitecture,
23:32SPEAKERwhich was not as deep and was much faster
23:34SPEAKERand they were able to clock it differently.
23:36SPEAKERAnd they whipped the llama's ass back in those days.
23:40SPEAKER- Yes, that let them take the performance crown
23:42SPEAKERfor quite some time.
23:43SPEAKER- Like five, four, five, three, four years, it seems like.
23:45SPEAKER- So explaining all that is a way of saying
23:47SPEAKERthat AMD has just been iterating on their design
23:49SPEAKERway faster than Intel has
23:50SPEAKERbecause Zen 2 is only, what, two years old?
23:53SPEAKERYear and a half?
23:54SPEAKER- They've been spinning new stuff
23:55SPEAKERabout every 18 to 24 months, it seems like.
23:57SPEAKER- Like they are two times or more faster than Intel
24:00SPEAKERin bringing new generations of chips out.
24:04SPEAKERAnd I think like the rumors are saying,
24:05SPEAKERor the scuttlebutt is that like a Zen 4 microarchitecture
24:08SPEAKERis only a couple of years out, like 20, 22.
24:11SPEAKER- I think they explicitly said
24:12SPEAKERat the end of that press conference, right?
24:13SPEAKERLike Zen 4, like the seeds are sown for Zen 4, basically.
24:17SPEAKER- They are iterating very quickly on this stuff,
24:19SPEAKERwhich is pretty exciting and fun to see.
24:21SPEAKERThe competition in the CPU space
24:23SPEAKERis something we haven't had in a while, is what I'm saying.
24:25SPEAKER- Well, it's interesting 'cause I kind of wanna build,
24:29SPEAKERit's funny, like with the streaming stuff,
24:31SPEAKERit's like you said, it's all of a sudden people
24:34SPEAKERwho are streaming have use for these big wide architectures
24:39SPEAKERwith lots of CPU cores.
24:43SPEAKERI know that the early Ryzen chips,
24:45SPEAKERwhich I didn't have any personal experience with
24:46SPEAKER'cause I was not in a building PCs professionally
24:49SPEAKERkind of place then.
24:50SPEAKERBut it was an unwieldy architecture.
24:52SPEAKERYou had to buy exactly the right memory.
24:54SPEAKERIf your memory timings were off,
24:55SPEAKERthen things would be unstable.
24:56SPEAKERIt was a little bit fiddly.
24:58SPEAKERBut they've gotten in two generations,
25:03SPEAKERassuming this lands okay.
25:05SPEAKERThe Zen 2 stuff was really solid and people,
25:08SPEAKERI know a ton of people in our audience are running it
25:09SPEAKERjust from looking at the Discord.
25:11SPEAKERAnd it's amazing how far it's come
25:16SPEAKERwith a wild new approach in three, four years.
25:20SPEAKER- Also worth pointing out,
25:21SPEAKERthese things are on the same socket, AM4,
25:23SPEAKERthat's been around for the last, what,
25:24SPEAKERfour or five years or something.
25:26SPEAKERSo anybody with a basically relatively modern
25:29SPEAKERAMD motherboard can kind of just drop one of these in.
25:34SPEAKER- I mean, you have to firmware update and all that stuff,
25:37SPEAKERbut I feel like the socket decision on Intel's part
25:41SPEAKERfor a little while, it was a,
25:46SPEAKERfor a while that was tied to memory choices,
25:48SPEAKERbut memory has been relatively stable
25:50SPEAKERfor the last few years.
25:51SPEAKERI mean, JEDEC just announced the PC 3200 spec
25:56SPEAKERlike a month or two ago,
25:58SPEAKERwhen we've been buying 3200 megahertz memory for four,
26:02SPEAKERlike I have two year old memory in my computer,
26:04SPEAKERthis PC 3200, it's just not JEDEC spec.
26:09SPEAKERI feel like, yeah, it's a good spot to be
26:14SPEAKERif you're an enthusiast.
26:17SPEAKERI'm so used to upgrading motherboards
26:18SPEAKERevery time I upgrade CPU from being on Intel
26:21SPEAKERthe last three PCs,
26:22SPEAKERthat I don't even think about that as an option anymore.
26:25SPEAKER- It is absolutely just priced into any upgrade process
26:28SPEAKERat this point for me is just,
26:29SPEAKERwell, I mean, if I get a new CPU,
26:30SPEAKERI'm gonna need a new motherboard too.
26:31SPEAKERSo it's like, I don't know, it's alien to me somehow
26:35SPEAKERto think about just buying a new chip
26:36SPEAKERand putting it in your old system, but.
26:38SPEAKER- Well, and at the same time,
26:40SPEAKERthey're also supporting stuff like PCIe 4,
26:42SPEAKERwhich Intel just got this generation, right?
26:45SPEAKERWith the 10,000 series.
26:45SPEAKER- Oh, it's the next one.
26:46SPEAKER- Oh, it's the next one, yeah.
26:47SPEAKER- Yes, the Rocket Lake, we'll talk about it.
26:49SPEAKERSo they kind of, Intel attempted to kind of counter program
26:52SPEAKERAMD a little bit earlier this week with a medium post.
26:55SPEAKER- Oh yeah, you know things are going well.
26:58SPEAKER- They announced that,
27:00SPEAKERor they kind of soft announced that Rocket Lake,
27:01SPEAKERwhich is the next iteration is coming in Q1 next year,
27:06SPEAKERbut they didn't say much about what it is.
27:07SPEAKERLike they're still on 14 nanometer
27:10SPEAKERwith even these current chips that they've got out.
27:12SPEAKERAnd people are just assuming from the name,
27:14SPEAKERthis will be another iteration of Skylake,
27:16SPEAKERlike the sixth one in a row or something, fifth one.
27:19SPEAKERSo like their Intel's kind of been on the back foot
27:21SPEAKERfor quite a while.
27:23SPEAKER- I mean, usually what happens when Intel gets this
27:25SPEAKERin the weeds and behind is all of a sudden,
27:28SPEAKEReverything's bad for a while.
27:30SPEAKERAnd then they drop something that's either really,
27:33SPEAKERreally good or really, really bad.
27:35SPEAKERSo like Itanium came out of one of these cycles,
27:39SPEAKERbut also the current, what became,
27:43SPEAKERthe Halem came out of one of these cycles too.
27:45SPEAKERAnd the Halem is basically what has begat everything
27:48SPEAKERall the way through the 10 generations of Skylake
27:50SPEAKERor whatever we're on now.
27:51SPEAKER- Like that kicked off pretty much like the whole core line,
27:54SPEAKERwhich obviously was incredibly dominant for a decade,
27:57SPEAKERbut Intel's in a weird spot.
28:00SPEAKEREarlier this week, I won't really get into the details,
28:02SPEAKERbut for like budgetary and time reasons,
28:05SPEAKERI was looking at a quick and dirty CPU motherboard upgrade.
28:08SPEAKERJust, it was just a situation of like,
28:10SPEAKERwell, this purchase might happen if you get it in
28:13SPEAKERin the next six hours.
28:14SPEAKERAnd I was like, well, that's not enough time to research
28:16SPEAKERlike AMD memory requirements and figure out
28:17SPEAKERwhat I would want to do there.
28:18SPEAKERSo let's just go with what I know
28:20SPEAKERand just throw the current Intel stuff on there.
28:22SPEAKER- Yeah.
28:23SPEAKER- So I have a 7700K right now.
28:25SPEAKERAnd I was like, well, it's the 10700K
28:27SPEAKERis the current equivalent of that.
28:29SPEAKERIs that how we're saying that, 10700K?
28:31SPEAKER- 10.7, I don't know.
28:33SPEAKERIt's a unwieldy naming.
28:35SPEAKER- Such an unwieldy name.
28:38SPEAKERI started looking at the 10700K and A,
28:42SPEAKERthe clock speed is slightly lower
28:44SPEAKERthan the 7700K I already have
28:45SPEAKERby like a hundred megahertz or something.
28:47SPEAKER- Yeah.
28:48SPEAKER- B, the per core performance best I could tell
28:50SPEAKERis like basically unchanged.
28:52SPEAKER- It's like 6% better.
28:53SPEAKER- It's like probably faster.
28:55SPEAKERThe only difference is that it's an eight core chip
28:57SPEAKERinstead of a four core.
28:58SPEAKER- So that's nice.
28:59SPEAKER- I would get some performance improvements.
29:01SPEAKER- But probably not in the games.
29:03SPEAKER- But not in games.
29:03SPEAKERLike I was looking at benchmarks
29:04SPEAKERbetween the current one I have
29:06SPEAKERand this chip four or three generations later.
29:08SPEAKERAnd the game performance benchmarks
29:11SPEAKERwere like basically identical.
29:13SPEAKERSo even faster in like one case,
29:15SPEAKERthey were actually faster on my current chip.
29:17SPEAKERAnd that 10700K has like super high power requirements.
29:19SPEAKERIt's like a 125 watt TDP.
29:23SPEAKER- And they're toasty.
29:24SPEAKER- And I was just like,
29:25SPEAKERwell, this is the worst possible time to be buying a CPU.
29:28SPEAKERAnd I think I'm just not going to bother.
29:31SPEAKERSo I ended up not putting that in the budget order
29:33SPEAKERbecause like, what's the point, you know,
29:34SPEAKERlike it's so much hassle to pull your motherboard
29:36SPEAKERout of your CPU or out of your case
29:38SPEAKERand like rebuild the whole thing for no improvement.
29:42SPEAKERI was just like, what's the point?
29:43SPEAKER- I mean, the last time I did a CPU upgrade was last year.
29:46SPEAKERAnd maybe earlier this, I don't know,
29:49SPEAKERit was then before times.
29:51SPEAKERAnd it was mainly like I got a new CPU
29:56SPEAKERbecause I'd done some, I played in a video game tournament,
30:02SPEAKERbut I had to go out and buy a motherboard.
30:03SPEAKERAnd the thing I was excited about
30:05SPEAKERwas having a better USB three implementation
30:07SPEAKERon that motherboard than the previous
30:09SPEAKERshitty chips X99 chipset had.
30:11SPEAKER- Exactly how I felt in the brief window
30:13SPEAKERI was looking at doing this,
30:14SPEAKERI was more excited about seeing what I could get
30:16SPEAKERon a brand new motherboard in terms of features.
30:18SPEAKER- More PCI express lanes on the chip set
30:21SPEAKERand more better USB.
30:22SPEAKERAnyway.
30:24SPEAKER- The Intel CPUs are not interesting
30:25SPEAKERin the slightest right now.
30:27SPEAKER- No.
30:28SPEAKERSo, okay.
30:29SPEAKERSo I think let's like, they did benchmarks
30:32SPEAKERwhen the benchmarks for these land at your Anand texts
30:36SPEAKERand your PC worlds and all those places
30:38SPEAKERwe'll talk about in the discord, I'm sure.
30:41SPEAKERThey're pitching like 28% improvement
30:43SPEAKERin Shadow of the Tomb Raider,
30:44SPEAKERwhich is at 19 by 10, you know, 1080 PhD,
30:49SPEAKERwhich is, it has to be with all the hair stuff turned on.
30:55SPEAKERAnd it must be set up to be as CPU bound as possible
30:58SPEAKERto see that.
30:59SPEAKER- I see that you wrote here in the notes
31:01SPEAKERmust be really CPU bound,
31:02SPEAKERwhich I guess answers the question I was gonna ask,
31:04SPEAKERwhich was, it sure does seem like
31:05SPEAKERShadow of the Tomb Raider gets used an awful lot
31:07SPEAKERfor benchmarks by everybody.
31:09SPEAKER- So AMD likes Shadow of the Tomb Raider
31:11SPEAKERbecause they had, it's part of their co-marketing thing.
31:14SPEAKER- Is it?
31:15SPEAKER- Yeah, they like, it's a, you know,
31:17SPEAKERthe, you know, Nvidia has used to have
31:19SPEAKERthe way it's meant to be played.
31:20SPEAKERAMD has had a thing that's had like 10 different names.
31:23SPEAKER- Totally, but the reason I ask is that
31:24SPEAKERit was also an early RTX showcase for Nvidia, so.
31:29SPEAKER- Right, oh, right, it was the other,
31:30SPEAKERit was the first Tomb Raider that was an AMD game.
31:33SPEAKER- Yes, was AMD Hairworks?
31:35SPEAKER- Hairworks was a, Tresifex was AMD.
31:37SPEAKER- Hairworks is, Hairworks was Nvidia.
31:39SPEAKER- Hairworks is Nvidia.
31:41SPEAKER- Tresifex versus Hairworks, choose your hair middle wear.
31:45SPEAKER- Yeah, I think we just got an episode title.
31:47SPEAKER- Hair, I'm trying to workshop that one for a little while.
31:50SPEAKER- Look, I just, I'm just glad that they're doing braids
31:52SPEAKERinstead of trying to do Triple H hair,
31:53SPEAKERthat's all I care about.
31:55SPEAKER- That's fair.
31:57SPEAKER- I, like, I'm always skeptical of vendor provided benchmarks
32:00SPEAKERfor pretty much everything.
32:02SPEAKER- Yeah, that seems sensible.
32:03SPEAKERI read the Anantek writeup of this announcement
32:05SPEAKERand they did say that in the past AMD has been
32:07SPEAKERquite honest with their numbers overall.
32:09SPEAKER- I was gonna say, like, I think it's safe given,
32:14SPEAKERhonestly, almost everybody has been pretty good faith
32:16SPEAKERwith numbers over the last three to five years.
32:18SPEAKERLike, there's people, vendors have realized
32:21SPEAKERthat there's no benefit to cooking numbers
32:23SPEAKERbecause the people who run benchmarks on parts
32:26SPEAKERwhen they get out in the wild are really good at it
32:28SPEAKERand, like, the blowback on cooking your release numbers
32:32SPEAKERis such that it's just, it's easier to just make
32:34SPEAKERthe chip good than to try to make it look good
32:36SPEAKERwith bad benchmarks.
32:37SPEAKERSo I think it's, I think it's, I think it's safe to assume
32:41SPEAKERthat the, like, especially the single core performance
32:44SPEAKERof this is gonna see a pretty significant boost over Zen 2.
32:48SPEAKER- They say 19% improvement over Zen 2
32:50SPEAKERfor the IPC instructions per clock,
32:52SPEAKERwhich is the single core performance.
32:53SPEAKERAnd, like, crucially, they claim that is significantly faster
32:57SPEAKERthan Intel's best offering right now.
32:58SPEAKERSo, like, this is essentially them saying
33:01SPEAKERwe have the fastest CPU on the market now
33:03SPEAKERin every possible use case.
33:05SPEAKER- Yeah, and that's, that wasn't the fastest CPU
33:09SPEAKERin each of the price points that they're releasing CPUs.
33:12SPEAKERThat's, they're saying the CPU is faster
33:13SPEAKERfor normal consumer business than what Intel has
33:18SPEAKERat the different price points.
33:20SPEAKER- So let's run down the parts.
33:22SPEAKERThere's, if we have a little bit of time at the end,
33:24SPEAKERI'd love to talk about that PS5 stuff too.
33:27SPEAKER- Oh, the teardown?
33:28SPEAKER- The teardown.
33:29SPEAKER- It's such a weird thing.
33:31SPEAKER- What a, what an unbelievable, we'll get to it.
33:34SPEAKEROkay. - Yes.
33:35SPEAKER- So four, four chips, four CPUs coming with Zen 4,
33:39SPEAKERor Zen 3, rather.
33:41SPEAKERThe, at the low end, for 300 bucks,
33:43SPEAKERyou got the Ryzen 9 5600X.
33:45SPEAKERIt's a six core, 12 thread.
33:47SPEAKER- Hold on, is that, I think it's a Ryzen 5?
33:49SPEAKERIsn't that right?
33:51SPEAKER- Did I say Ryzen 9?
33:52SPEAKER- Yeah.
33:53SPEAKER- I wrote Ryzen 9 on all of these.
33:55SPEAKER- Yeah, I believe it's, let me, hang on,
33:56SPEAKERI've got the chart here.
33:57SPEAKERI know it's confusing, there's too many numbers.
33:59SPEAKER- Well, I mean, the important thing is it's a 5600X.
34:02SPEAKERThere's only one 5600.
34:03SPEAKER- Yes, it's especially confusing
34:05SPEAKERbecause they put the Zen 3 name out there,
34:07SPEAKERbut the previous Zen 2 chips were Ryzen 3000 series.
34:11SPEAKER- So they skipped, they've got a lot of-
34:12SPEAKER- 4,000.
34:13SPEAKER- Yeah, well, Ryzen 4,000 is a mobile part, I believe.
34:16SPEAKER- They're APUs, yeah, so.
34:18SPEAKER- Oh, yes, yes, so.
34:19SPEAKER- APUs are the GPU and it's like an SOC for a PC.
34:25SPEAKER- Right, right, the other shot is
34:26SPEAKERthere's a lot of confusion in the numbering
34:28SPEAKERbetween the various parts of their stack.
34:30SPEAKER- Well, so I think Ian at AnandTech pointed out
34:34SPEAKERthat if by skipping 4,000, they have an opportunity
34:36SPEAKERto unify all the Zen 3 stuff on the 5,000 line,
34:40SPEAKERAPUs and CPUs, which is good.
34:43SPEAKER- Yes, so yes, Ryzen 5 5600X is the name of that low-end.
34:47SPEAKER- Wow, I put nine on all of these.
34:49SPEAKER- 2.99.
34:51SPEAKER- Yeah, 3.3.
34:52SPEAKER- I mean, I think that's just to match Intel
34:54SPEAKERon the core i5, i7, i9 naming, right?
34:56SPEAKERI think they're just piggybacking off of that.
34:58SPEAKER- Oh, is that it?
34:59SPEAKER- I believe that's the case, yeah.
35:00SPEAKERIt's just purely a marketing thing.
35:02SPEAKER- Okay.
35:03SPEAKER- So like a Ryzen 5, you can assume,
35:04SPEAKERis kind of the equivalent of a core i5.
35:07SPEAKER- Interesting.
35:08SPEAKERSo, okay, so yeah, 4.6 gigahertz, 3.7 gigahertz
35:13SPEAKERboost and base clock.
35:16SPEAKERSo the boost clock is what you get
35:17SPEAKERwhen you have a single or dual-threaded application.
35:20SPEAKERIt's like Intel's turbo boost stuff,
35:24SPEAKERwhich does the same thing.
35:25SPEAKER- That was one of the questions I had written down here
35:27SPEAKERwas if you could help me understand
35:29SPEAKERexactly what the boost clock or how the boost clock works
35:31SPEAKERor the turbo boost or whatever Intel calls it as well.
35:34SPEAKERLike, did I understand you right?
35:37SPEAKERSo basically, if you're in a single-threaded situation,
35:39SPEAKERthey'll boost the frequency
35:40SPEAKERbecause they're not having to run all the cores
35:42SPEAKERat the same speed?
35:43SPEAKER- It's not just even single-threaded.
35:45SPEAKERIt's that the chip is aware of what the thermals are
35:47SPEAKERon the processor and what it's capable of.
35:50SPEAKERSo if you have like a, if you have a 12-core chip
35:52SPEAKERand you're using four cores heavily,
35:54SPEAKERit'll spike the clock on the four cores that are being used
35:57SPEAKERand turn down the other ones.
35:59SPEAKER- So it can, wow.
36:00SPEAKER- Balance out the TDP.
36:02SPEAKERThe power consumption on these modern CPUs is bonk,
36:05SPEAKERwell, on modern chips in general is bonkers.
36:07SPEAKERLike they can turn off the stuff that's not being used
36:09SPEAKERand turn up the stuff that is being used.
36:10SPEAKER- That's crazy.
36:11SPEAKERI would not have thought they'd be able to run
36:12SPEAKERthe individual cores at different clock rates.
36:15SPEAKER- Yep.
36:16SPEAKER- That's, huh.
36:17SPEAKER- I mean, your Intel chip, your 7700 does that too.
36:19SPEAKER- Right, I just didn't know that.
36:20SPEAKERI assumed they all had to run on the same frequency
36:22SPEAKERjust to kind of stay in sync or whatever, but.
36:24SPEAKER- Well, see, I mean, you can choose to do that if you want
36:26SPEAKERand there's performance benefits to doing that
36:28SPEAKERas if you can handle cooling it.
36:30SPEAKERBut, I mean, the upshot is you'll see faster perf
36:36SPEAKERon the single-threaded apps at that boost clock.
36:38SPEAKER- Basically the fewer cores that are being worked,
36:40SPEAKERthe faster those cores can run is what you're saying.
36:42SPEAKER- Exactly.
36:43SPEAKER- Okay, so is that sustainable for as long as necessary?
36:46SPEAKER- Should be, yeah.
36:47SPEAKER- Okay, so what you're saying is that is incredibly useful
36:51SPEAKERfor games that are not using the cores.
36:54SPEAKER- Like you could have called this game mode
36:56SPEAKERfor all intents and purposes.
36:57SPEAKER- Now I get exactly what this is now, that's okay.
37:00SPEAKER- Yeah, so if you have an Unreal Engine game
37:02SPEAKERthat uses two threads or four threads
37:04SPEAKERand is hitting two cores really hard,
37:07SPEAKERthe other cores will slow way, way down
37:09SPEAKERand it'll crank those up as high as 4.6 gigahertz
37:12SPEAKERin this case.
37:13SPEAKERAnd usually you can adjust that and make it even go faster
37:15SPEAKERif you wanted to BIOS, if you have the cooling to support.
37:17SPEAKERLike if you put a water cooler on it,
37:18SPEAKERyou can boost a little.
37:20SPEAKERFor example, on my 9900K, the boost clock by default
37:25SPEAKERis I think two cores at five gigahertz.
37:27SPEAKERI can set all of them because I'm using a water cooler
37:29SPEAKERand it'll run at five gigahertz
37:31SPEAKERor all of them but one maybe.
37:33SPEAKERAnyway, 35 megabyte cache on this one
37:37SPEAKERand a 65 watt TDP.
37:40SPEAKERSo the TDP is the thermal design profile.
37:42SPEAKERAMD and Intel measure them
37:43SPEAKERa little bit differently, I believe.
37:45SPEAKERBut this isn't gonna make,
37:50SPEAKERthis is a relatively low wattage part.
37:56SPEAKERAnd this is also the only one of these chips
37:58SPEAKERthat comes with a cooler.
38:00SPEAKERThey specifically said like market data shows
38:04SPEAKERthat people who are buying $500 CPUs don't use the cooler
38:09SPEAKERthat we provide.
38:09SPEAKERSo rather than just have somebody have some stuff
38:12SPEAKERthat you have to chuck in a drawer or send to the landfill,
38:14SPEAKERthey're just not gonna put it in the box anymore.
38:15SPEAKERYou can buy your own.
38:17SPEAKER- Yep, that's smart.
38:19SPEAKER- The Ryzen, is this a Ryzen 7 5800X?
38:22SPEAKER- Yes.
38:23SPEAKER- Is an eight core 16 thread, 3.8 gigahertz base clock,
38:28SPEAKER4.7 gigahertz boost.
38:29SPEAKERSo ever so slightly faster but the big jump
38:32SPEAKERis two additional cores and four additional threads.
38:35SPEAKERAnother 36 megabyte cache.
38:38SPEAKERThis one's a lot hotter, 105 watt TDP.
38:42SPEAKERAnd it's 450 bucks.
38:44SPEAKER- That's a little toasty, I guess.
38:45SPEAKERLike my 7700K is like a 90 something watt, I believe, TDP.
38:50SPEAKERI mean, it's kind of in the ballpark.
38:51SPEAKERBut like I said, these current eight core Intel ones
38:54SPEAKERare like 125 and more.
38:55SPEAKER- Yeah, this is, around 100 is kind of like the mid range,
38:59SPEAKERlike where you are.
39:00SPEAKERAnd like this is, you can air cool any of these,
39:03SPEAKERit seems like, 105 watt is an easy,
39:06SPEAKERlike one of those Cooler Master Noctua air coolers
39:09SPEAKERwill do, one of those big towers will do you well.
39:11SPEAKERBut you can also put water on it.
39:13SPEAKER- I wanna Noctua next time I do a build, very excited.
39:16SPEAKER- It's funny, I'd forgotten I put one of those Cooler Master,
39:19SPEAKERyou know, the El Chipos on my stream machine.
39:22SPEAKERAnd I opened it up to do some work the other day
39:24SPEAKERand was just really pleasantly surprised
39:26SPEAKERat how un-gunked it's gotten.
39:29SPEAKERI didn't even have to blast it out.
39:30SPEAKERAnyway, it's been doing good work for a few years.
39:32SPEAKERAnd then the 5900X Ryzen 9 5900X, 12 cores, 24 threads,
39:37SPEAKER4.8 gigahertz boost, 3.7 gigahertz stock,
39:41SPEAKER70 megabyte L2 plus L3 cache.
39:47SPEAKERAnd another 105 watt TDP at 550 bucks.
39:50SPEAKER- This one seems like the sweet spot to me.
39:53SPEAKERI mean, granted, it's more expensive.
39:55SPEAKERLike if you're price conscious,
39:56SPEAKERyou know, something like the 5600X is the sweet spot,
39:59SPEAKERbut like bang for the buck.
40:02SPEAKER- Like if you're playing games, I'm not,
40:06SPEAKERso A, I'm interested to see how these overclock,
40:08SPEAKERbecause if you can turn up the boost clocks on these,
40:10SPEAKERthen the 5600 for gamers is a smoking deal.
40:14SPEAKER- Sure.
40:18SPEAKER- I feel like 550 bucks, this is a,
40:23SPEAKERI would assume that this is a CPU that will last you
40:25SPEAKERfor a big chunk of the next console generation.
40:28SPEAKER- Yeah, I think you're totally right.
40:30SPEAKERI do wonder though, in that context,
40:32SPEAKERis it important to try to have parity
40:33SPEAKERwith what's in these consoles in terms of number of cores?
40:36SPEAKER- I don't think it matters.
40:38SPEAKERHaving more is better than having fewer, obviously.
40:41SPEAKER- Right, because I think the new consoles are eight cores.
40:44SPEAKER- They are.
40:44SPEAKER- Right, so.
40:46SPEAKER- I'm really interested to see if we ever see
40:48SPEAKERall eight of those cores spike on console games.
40:51SPEAKER- That's fair, that's fair.
40:53SPEAKERYou might be just fine with a six core CPU.
40:56SPEAKER- That's a question for our friends
40:58SPEAKERwho are like hardcore graphics developers.
41:00SPEAKERIf you're a hardcore graphics developer,
41:02SPEAKERsend us a question to techpod@content.town.
41:05SPEAKERWe would love to know if you think
41:07SPEAKERthat you're gonna be able to use eight cores
41:09SPEAKERin a modern console, 'cause I'm skeptical.
41:12SPEAKER- Even better if your employer will allow it
41:14SPEAKERand you'd like to appear on the show.
41:15SPEAKER- Yeah. - Just let us know.
41:17SPEAKER- We're not talking to one specific person here.
41:19SPEAKER- I would love to pick the brain
41:20SPEAKERof any working game developers
41:21SPEAKERwho could shed some light on this stuff.
41:23SPEAKERBut the reason I say the 5900X seems like the sweet spot
41:26SPEAKERis that there's one more above that,
41:27SPEAKERwhich is the 5950X, which is another four cores.
41:32SPEAKERSo it's 16 cores and 32 threads,
41:34SPEAKERbut similar clock speeds, same cache,
41:38SPEAKERbut way more expensive.
41:39SPEAKERIt's like another $250 to get those extra four cores
41:42SPEAKERand not much else.
41:43SPEAKER- So this seems to me,
41:48SPEAKERI think, I feel like, yeah, I don't know.
41:53SPEAKERSo they said they're doing six core chiplets.
41:56SPEAKER- Yes, six and eight, six and eight.
41:58SPEAKERThere are two chiplet complexes,
42:01SPEAKERone with six cores, one with eight.
42:03SPEAKER- I wonder if these chiplets are just torched out
42:06SPEAKERwhen two of the cores don't bin.
42:11SPEAKERI'm super curious about that.
42:12SPEAKERWhen somebody delids it and takes a look
42:14SPEAKERat the electron microscope, they'll know.
42:16SPEAKER- Like how many chiplets are on this 16 core package,
42:20SPEAKERyou mean?
42:21SPEAKER- Or it'd be probably just
42:22SPEAKERfor the regular microscope, actually.
42:24SPEAKERBut we're, so yeah, the 5950X is 16 cores,
42:28SPEAKERup to 4.9 gigahertz boost and 72 megabytes of L2 and L3.
42:34SPEAKER- Yeah, so that one is $800 compared to 550
42:38SPEAKERfor the next one down.
42:39SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, look, there's always a high end.
42:41SPEAKER- Yeah, it's the 5950X is sort of the G-Force Titan
42:44SPEAKERof this thing, of this situation, right?
42:46SPEAKERIt's the, yes, this is the best one,
42:48SPEAKERbut you're gonna pay significantly
42:49SPEAKERfor some slightly small gains.
42:51SPEAKER- I think it's kind of like the 3080, I think, right?
42:54SPEAKERLike it's like, it's expensive.
42:57SPEAKERYou can get something that's very nearly as good
42:59SPEAKERfor like 300 bucks less.
43:01SPEAKER- Yeah.
43:02SPEAKER- Yeah, anyway, these seem really compelling.
43:04SPEAKERI'm interested to see what benchmarks are.
43:05SPEAKERI think we're gonna get a guest on
43:06SPEAKERwhen they've had time to do benchmarks
43:09SPEAKERand who can talk about that stuff directly.
43:10SPEAKER- That would be fun.
43:11SPEAKERIt's been five years since I was excited about CPUs
43:15SPEAKERand I'm excited about CPUs again.
43:16SPEAKERSo it'd be fun to talk to somebody
43:18SPEAKERwith a hands-on experience here, but.
43:20SPEAKER- And this is, as I think they said
43:24SPEAKERat the start of that press conference,
43:26SPEAKERthis is the fifth year that the chiplet designs
43:29SPEAKERhave been in the market.
43:29SPEAKERSo, and then at the very end of that,
43:32SPEAKERthey teased the big Navi, the RX 6000,
43:34SPEAKERRadeon RX 6000 announce,
43:37SPEAKERwhich is happening in like two weeks-ish.
43:40SPEAKER- Oh yeah, in a month. - On the 26th, I think.
43:42SPEAKER- Yeah. - Yeah.
43:42SPEAKER- Which they didn't say a lot,
43:44SPEAKERcertainly very little in the way of numbers,
43:46SPEAKERbut they did mention the 4K,
43:48SPEAKERor basically 4K performance in Borderlands 3.
43:51SPEAKER- Yeah.
43:52SPEAKER- And the numbers they put out there
43:53SPEAKERseem relatively competitive with the,
43:56SPEAKERsomewhere in the 3070, 3080 ballpark.
43:58SPEAKER- I mean, I think, look, AMD's graphics cards
44:01SPEAKERhave played low end and mid range,
44:05SPEAKERfirmly low range the last few generations.
44:07SPEAKERSo I, like they're writing the fat part of the curve.
44:11SPEAKER- Right.
44:12SPEAKER- Is that it seems to be their GPU strategy.
44:14SPEAKER- More of a price to performance kind of value
44:16SPEAKERrather than like hitting the top end of the performance.
44:19SPEAKER- Yeah, they're building stuff
44:20SPEAKERfor the places that people spend money
44:21SPEAKERversus the place where people want to spend money,
44:23SPEAKERbut don't. - Right, right.
44:24SPEAKER- So.
44:25SPEAKER- But I mean, I'm sure that they are riding the wave
44:27SPEAKERof all the R&D they put into these new consoles, right?
44:29SPEAKER'Cause that's.
44:31SPEAKER- You know, that's a good question.
44:33SPEAKERI don't know if they're allowed to.
44:34SPEAKERLike I know that when they build these console GPUs,
44:38SPEAKERthose teams are really siloed off
44:40SPEAKERfrom the rest of the company.
44:41SPEAKERSo my understanding is that at least in the beginning
44:45SPEAKERwhen they started this relationship with the,
44:47SPEAKERwhat, Xbox 360, I guess?
44:49SPEAKER- Yes, yes, original Xbox was Nvidia
44:52SPEAKERand then they went AMD from there.
44:54SPEAKER- Yeah, so IP moved from the PC/Radion team
44:58SPEAKERto the Xbox 360, but not back the other way.
45:01SPEAKER- My guess is that this would come down
45:03SPEAKERto whether they are licensing that architecture
45:05SPEAKERto the console makers versus whether they sold them
45:07SPEAKERthe IP for it outright.
45:09SPEAKER- I'm sure they're licensing.
45:11SPEAKER- Well, so in that case, I mean,
45:12SPEAKERthey've said the consoles are RDNA2 based
45:14SPEAKERand I assume these graphics, the big Navi is as well, right?
45:17SPEAKERI think they've said as much.
45:18SPEAKER- I guess that's true, yeah.
45:19SPEAKER- So there's gotta be at least some overlap.
45:20SPEAKERAt any rate, they've certainly learned a lot
45:22SPEAKERin working on these new machines.
45:24SPEAKER- Yeah, so if you're thinking about it
45:26SPEAKERin terms of like open source projects,
45:28SPEAKERthe PS4/5 and the Xbox One Elite, is that said?
45:34SPEAKERXbox Elite One?
45:35SPEAKER- Xbox Series X?
45:37SPEAKER- Xbox Series X, yeah, there you go.
45:38SPEAKERWhatever it's called, the cube and the fins.
45:41SPEAKERMicrosoft's expert naming. - Yeah, like look,
45:44SPEAKERI've got to fucking do this professionally,
45:46SPEAKERI don't know what the name of the damn thing is.
45:48SPEAKER- Yeah.
45:50SPEAKER- They're forks.
45:52SPEAKERSo they forked the Zen with the architecture
45:55SPEAKERthat they were using for the GPUs at some point,
45:57SPEAKERtwo, three years in the past, five years in the past
45:59SPEAKERand now they've diverged from there, so.
46:02SPEAKER- This is totally my assumption.
46:04SPEAKERI have no like background to make this claim,
46:06SPEAKERbut I would guess that any custom work they did
46:08SPEAKERfor these console makers that was requested by them
46:10SPEAKERcan't necessarily be rolled back in,
46:12SPEAKERbut that is the basis of the GPU architecture
46:15SPEAKERthat they provided to them, they can use, I would assume.
46:17SPEAKER- Yeah, that's my assumption.
46:18SPEAKERSo speaking of the console architectures,
46:22SPEAKERSony released something that was unprecedented, I think.
46:27SPEAKER- For them, definitely.
46:28SPEAKER- Like they had the lead architect for the PS5
46:33SPEAKERsit down in a white room and take apart a PS5
46:36SPEAKERthat wasn't, it looked like a production one.
46:38SPEAKERIt didn't look like it had paste, thermal paste
46:40SPEAKERand everything on it, it wasn't like.
46:42SPEAKER- Yeah, I think it's the final one.
46:43SPEAKERHe's from the mechanical design department at Sony,
46:46SPEAKERwhich is like the most like Japanese corporate name
46:49SPEAKERfor a department, I feel like.
46:51SPEAKER- Have you ever heard- - Very old school.
46:53SPEAKER- Have you ever heard stories about like what?
46:56SPEAKERSo when we were at CES one years ago, 10 years ago,
47:00SPEAKERwe wanted to go see an early HMD,
47:03SPEAKERlike video HMD that Sony had and they had it set up
47:08SPEAKERin our special room.
47:09SPEAKERWhen I talked to the Sony PR rep, they were like,
47:11SPEAKERyeah, they just told, Japan just told us to block off
47:15SPEAKERa 20 by 30 foot room with eight stalls
47:18SPEAKERand that's where we were gonna do,
47:20SPEAKERthey're gonna bring some hardware
47:21SPEAKERand some guy flew from Japan with like a case chain to him
47:25SPEAKERthat was in a seat next to him and like,
47:28SPEAKERMission Impossible rolled in two days before the thing
47:31SPEAKERand set it up and like none of the US people,
47:33SPEAKERnone of the people running CES had seen
47:36SPEAKERwhat was gonna go in there.
47:37SPEAKERAny idea what was going into that part of the booth?
47:39SPEAKER- That is very classically Japanese parent company
47:42SPEAKERin my understanding, especially that has changed somewhat
47:44SPEAKERin recent years, but back in the day,
47:46SPEAKERvery much like the Home Company in Japan
47:49SPEAKERcalled all the shots, they made all the decisions,
47:51SPEAKERlike the international divisions were just there
47:53SPEAKERto facilitate what they were doing in other territories.
47:56SPEAKERYou know, that's why it was,
47:57SPEAKERnot to really getting off tangent here,
47:59SPEAKERthat's why it was such a big story
48:00SPEAKERwhen Howard Stringer took over Sony.
48:03SPEAKER- Oh yeah.
48:03SPEAKER- It was the first time someone not from Japan
48:06SPEAKERwas running Sony for some period of time
48:09SPEAKERand like now, you know, now you've seen them,
48:12SPEAKERyou've seen them cede some actual authority
48:14SPEAKERto other parts of the PlayStation business
48:17SPEAKERin different territories, you know,
48:18SPEAKERlike that's kind of, it's largely being run
48:19SPEAKERout of Europe now, so it's changed much more,
48:21SPEAKERlike the PlayStation branch of Sony
48:23SPEAKERis a much more international operation now, but.
48:26SPEAKER- And it seems like the product is better
48:28SPEAKERbecause everybody's talking to each other,
48:30SPEAKERat least on occasion.
48:30SPEAKER- And you know, different regions
48:32SPEAKERhave different skill sets, you know,
48:33SPEAKERlike Japan is very good at hardware and product design,
48:36SPEAKERlike, you know, maybe better like network engineering
48:38SPEAKERand UI software stuff in America or Europe,
48:42SPEAKERit just isn't as a--
48:43SPEAKER- Services, not Japan, please, yeah.
48:46SPEAKER- Yeah, so, anyway, this video is weird to me
48:50SPEAKER'cause like, I don't know, it's cool that they did it,
48:53SPEAKERit's just--
48:55SPEAKER- It's very un-Sony.
48:57SPEAKER- Yes, that's kind of what I'm getting at,
48:58SPEAKERlike it's just so unlike them to like,
49:00SPEAKERthey've typically been very secretive about their products,
49:02SPEAKERso to just have them taking apart their own box
49:05SPEAKERlike a month before launch is pretty unexpected.
49:08SPEAKER- I mean, and there's a lot you can glean from this,
49:11SPEAKERlike there's a lot to see in here
49:12SPEAKER'cause they don't, they don't usually,
49:14SPEAKERwhen they have done something like this in the past,
49:17SPEAKERthey have kind of obscured the really interesting bits,
49:20SPEAKERespecially if it was before launch, I would have assumed,
49:22SPEAKERand like, it's all there, you can stop,
49:24SPEAKERyou can freeze frame this video and go through it,
49:26SPEAKERand I spent some time doing that yesterday.
49:29SPEAKERI also wanna shout out, so it was Yasuhiro Otori,
49:32SPEAKERI think is the engineer's name?
49:34SPEAKER- Yes.
49:36SPEAKER- His screwdriver collection is exquisite.
49:38SPEAKER- Oh wow, yeah.
49:39SPEAKER- He has this delightful wooden handled, like Phillips head,
49:43SPEAKERand then there's a prior that I think is great,
49:46SPEAKERlike a little bog standard eyeglass screwdriver,
49:50SPEAKERand I don't know what the orange handle,
49:53SPEAKERwhat the two mid-size handles are in there, but--
49:56SPEAKER- He's got, that is the widest flathead screwdriver
49:59SPEAKERI have ever seen, I don't even know if that qualifies
50:01SPEAKERas a flathead at this point.
50:02SPEAKER- Oh, so that's a prior, that's a--
50:04SPEAKER- Also, that is also-- - Propping, that's the prior.
50:05SPEAKER- Also, is that basically similar to a spudger, I assume?
50:09SPEAKER- Well, so a spudger is usually nylon or something,
50:10SPEAKERso it doesn't mar up the finish.
50:12SPEAKERI assume that's to get into a specific spot on this
50:14SPEAKERand maybe pop off the big side fins.
50:16SPEAKERI don't think they actually showed him using that
50:18SPEAKERin the video.
50:19SPEAKER- Yeah.
50:22SPEAKERApparently, when you take the screws out
50:23SPEAKERto take the base off, you can store the screws in the base.
50:26SPEAKER- Oh.
50:27SPEAKER- Which is pretty wild little detail.
50:29SPEAKER- Look, I read the Polygon article about that.
50:33SPEAKER- You don't wanna lose the screws.
50:34SPEAKER- No, of course not.
50:35SPEAKER- Support calls, man.
50:36SPEAKER- Yeah, you rotate the inner compartment of the stand
50:40SPEAKERto obscure the screw once you store it in there
50:42SPEAKERso it doesn't get out.
50:43SPEAKER- What a delight.
50:44SPEAKER- This is wild.
50:45SPEAKERI hate the way this thing looks,
50:47SPEAKERbut I am pretty impressed with the engineering
50:49SPEAKERand thought that went into the design of it so far.
50:52SPEAKER- Well, so the thing to me about this whole design
50:56SPEAKERis it seems like, whereas with the PS4,
50:59SPEAKERthey were designing it, like they built the hardware
51:02SPEAKERand then were like, wait, we have to move
51:03SPEAKERhow much air through this
51:04SPEAKERand then just put a huge loud fucking fan on it?
51:07SPEAKER- Yes.
51:08SPEAKER- This thing seems like it was designed from the get-go
51:09SPEAKERto have good airflow in and out
51:11SPEAKERand blow from front to back.
51:13SPEAKER- Yeah, like people are laughing maybe somewhat justifiably
51:17SPEAKERabout how gigantic this thing is and it is,
51:21SPEAKERby all appearances, the biggest console ever made.
51:23SPEAKER- Look, I'm gonna put it on my entertainment center
51:25SPEAKERand never look at it again.
51:27SPEAKER- Yeah, as long as you have room for it, it's fine.
51:28SPEAKERBut I mean, that's the thing I was gonna say
51:29SPEAKERis that Sony has always been obsessed
51:31SPEAKERwith these like sleek, small, compact designs
51:34SPEAKERat the expense of cooling and noise.
51:36SPEAKER- Yeah.
51:37SPEAKER- And honestly, yes, I will absolutely take a gigantic box
51:39SPEAKERif it is silent over something that is too tightly integrated
51:43SPEAKERand just roars like a jet engine.
51:45SPEAKER- Yes, please, please make it quiet.
51:47SPEAKERI love that the stand also is like,
51:51SPEAKERit works in both horizontal and vertical positions
51:53SPEAKERso that in two years when I'm like,
51:55SPEAKERI wanna make it vertical, where's my stand?
51:57SPEAKERI can find it.
51:58SPEAKER- Well, I mean the fact that you need a horizontal stand
52:01SPEAKERis maybe a little suspect.
52:02SPEAKERWell, like I said, I hate how lopsided this thing is,
52:04SPEAKERbut you know.
52:06SPEAKER- See, I really liked the way it looks.
52:07SPEAKERI wish it was black.
52:09SPEAKERI feel like this white is gonna get gross really quickly.
52:11SPEAKER- Maybe, so that was actually one of the big,
52:14SPEAKERfun revelations for me of this video
52:15SPEAKERis that the panels, the fins, the big white size,
52:19SPEAKERA, come off very easily,
52:21SPEAKERB, appear to just be injection molded plastic or whatever,
52:25SPEAKERwhich means that you know within two or three months
52:28SPEAKERof release, the aftermarket is going to be
52:29SPEAKERcranking out replacement panels for this thing.
52:31SPEAKER- Oh yeah, we'll get all sorts of horrible stuff.
52:33SPEAKER- You're gonna be able to get your wood paneling on
52:35SPEAKERif you want or whatever, I just want a smaller
52:39SPEAKERand black set of side panels to put on this thing.
52:42SPEAKER- Wow, the dust catcher, I hadn't noticed.
52:44SPEAKERThat's interesting.
52:44SPEAKER- Yeah, that's cool.
52:46SPEAKER- I want Vin Diesel on an airbrushed van painting
52:52SPEAKERfor my PS5 sides.
52:55SPEAKER- Have whatever you want.
52:55SPEAKER- You get gigantic weed leafs, leaves on the sides.
53:00SPEAKER- Snoop on one side and a bunch of weed leaves on the other.
53:02SPEAKER- Yes, that can be yours.
53:04SPEAKER- They showed peeling off the security sticker.
53:07SPEAKERThis fan design is really neat.
53:09SPEAKERLike the fact that it just lifts out is pretty rad.
53:12SPEAKER- Yeah.
53:14SPEAKER- I guess you should--
53:15SPEAKER- Much higher volume fan than in the past,
53:17SPEAKERor a much larger fan, so like you know,
53:19SPEAKERthe bigger the fan, the quieter it is.
53:22SPEAKER- I don't remember the name of it,
53:23SPEAKERbut it's like a water wheel type fan,
53:25SPEAKERnot a blade fan.
53:27SPEAKERSo it works a little bit differently
53:32SPEAKERand it's to suck in the flat side and blow out the sides
53:36SPEAKERor maybe the other way around.
53:39SPEAKERAnd he specifically says airflow goes front to back.
53:44SPEAKERAnd then when you open this thing up,
53:45SPEAKERbasically the lid underneath it is almost all,
53:50SPEAKERlike there's so much surface area
53:52SPEAKERon the heat sinks in this thing.
53:54SPEAKER- Yeah, we should mention the,
53:57SPEAKERthey show off the M.2 expansion slot for drives,
54:02SPEAKERwhich is like, it's relatively accessible, right?
54:06SPEAKERI mean, you do have to take the big white plastic panel off
54:09SPEAKERand then there's a smaller kind of metal cover
54:12SPEAKERover that slot that you have to unscrew.
54:15SPEAKER- Precisely as accessible as the PS4's hard drive slot was.
54:18SPEAKER- Roughly, yeah, yeah.
54:22SPEAKER- I mean, honestly, I'm just excited that it actually
54:24SPEAKERsupports an SSD this go round.
54:27SPEAKER- Yeah.
54:28SPEAKER- I was so disappointed when we opened up the PS4,
54:30SPEAKERput an SSD in and then it did nothing
54:31SPEAKERbecause it had an old satisfaction.
54:33SPEAKER- Right.
54:36SPEAKER- Like looking at how this board comes out,
54:39SPEAKERit is so designed to be maintained
54:44SPEAKERin that like all the screws are accessible from one side,
54:46SPEAKERthere's no daughter boards,
54:48SPEAKERthere's only a handful of floppy wire connectors,
54:52SPEAKERribbon connectors that go to the front panel
54:54SPEAKERand the other stuff and then all the back panel connectors
54:56SPEAKERare just plainer with the board.
54:58SPEAKER- Yeah.
55:00SPEAKER- The CPU core is a, there's no heat spreader on it,
55:05SPEAKERit's just a raw chip design.
55:06SPEAKER- Yeah, the die is just exposed.
55:08SPEAKER- One of the interesting thing is when they,
55:10SPEAKERwhen he pulls the board out of the back,
55:11SPEAKERI'm gonna go back and freeze frame for a sec,
55:13SPEAKERyou can see there's a little heat pipe on the back,
55:17SPEAKERon the shield on the back of it that goes,
55:21SPEAKERit looks like over things like the SSD
55:23SPEAKERand the system memory and there's a couple of little
55:27SPEAKERheat sinks on that, but there's not,
55:30SPEAKERthere's a bunch of stuff on the backside of this board
55:32SPEAKERand then there's not a lot of actual cooling back there,
55:36SPEAKERso I'm interested to see how that works,
55:38SPEAKERlike the system memory doesn't seem to have
55:41SPEAKERthermal paste on it, doesn't seem to have coolers on it,
55:43SPEAKERso either it's being cooled from the other side somehow.
55:46SPEAKERI'm gonna be interested to see how that works.
55:47SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, is there any benefit to having the memory
55:50SPEAKERon the opposite side from the CPU?
55:52SPEAKERI guess not, right?
55:54SPEAKER- I mean, they could put it wherever they wanted,
55:56SPEAKERso I assume that there's some benefit
55:57SPEAKERor they would have done it on the other side,
55:59SPEAKER'cause it's, I mean, I don't, I'm interested to see.
56:04SPEAKER- It could just be a concession to cooling,
56:06SPEAKERthat they needed the space.
56:07SPEAKER- Well, yeah, or that the other side, yeah, exactly,
56:11SPEAKERthat they were worried, they could have been worried
56:13SPEAKERabout anything that would cause them to do that,
56:14SPEAKERI don't know why they would do that.
56:16SPEAKERBut once you pull the board out, so, and you know what,
56:19SPEAKERthere is thermal paste on the memory chips,
56:21SPEAKERwhen I'm looking at it. - Yeah, I was gonna say
56:22SPEAKERthat there is a close-up shot where you can see
56:24SPEAKERthat there's a little bit of smear on there.
56:27SPEAKER- Yeah, and then they also have some goo
56:28SPEAKERon the voltage regulators and stuff like that
56:31SPEAKERoff on the side, and then you can also see it on the SSD,
56:34SPEAKERthere's memory chips on the SSD,
56:36SPEAKERkind of on the top right side of that board,
56:38SPEAKERwhen he's taking the heat, the back support
56:41SPEAKERoff of the CPU bracket.
56:45SPEAKER- A lot, I feel like a lot has been made
56:47SPEAKERof the liquid metal cooling thermal interface
56:50SPEAKERthat they're using on the SOC.
56:52SPEAKER- Yeah, those have been, they've been shipping for a while.
56:55SPEAKER- Yes, it sounds fancy,
56:56SPEAKERbut the liquid metal thermal material has been in use
56:59SPEAKERfor what, probably the better part of 10 years?
57:02SPEAKER- We've, there was a, been commercially available
57:06SPEAKERfor at least five years, three or five, three to five years.
57:09SPEAKERI know Gamers Nexus, I think, did a one-year stress test
57:14SPEAKERof it a few years ago to see how it worked.
57:18SPEAKERSupposedly that stuff is rated for at least,
57:20SPEAKERlike the stuff you can buy is rated for five years.
57:23SPEAKERThe big problem with it is that if you don't
57:28SPEAKERkeep it contained, it can short out stuff
57:30SPEAKERon your motherboard, which is bad, obviously.
57:33SPEAKER- Doesn't it have, doesn't have an issue
57:34SPEAKERwith drying over time as well?
57:36SPEAKER- I mean, all thermal compounds do.
57:38SPEAKER- Regular stuff does too, for sure.
57:39SPEAKERI mean, if you look around the SOC on this thing,
57:42SPEAKERthey've got some kind of gasket there,
57:43SPEAKERsome sort of seal.
57:45SPEAKER- Well, that's to keep it from running off
57:46SPEAKERonto the backside of the CPU socket.
57:49SPEAKER- Right, but maybe that also helps with it
57:51SPEAKERmaintaining its kind of state longer.
57:54SPEAKER- I mean, it'll keep it definitely contained
57:56SPEAKERto the die and the, between the die and the interface.
57:58SPEAKER- Yeah, just for some context, like where you see this
58:01SPEAKERin use is like if you buy an Intel chip
58:04SPEAKERand you got the giant heat spreader on there,
58:06SPEAKERthey'll use this kind of liquid metal thermal material
58:09SPEAKERbetween the actual CPU die and that heat spreader,
58:12SPEAKERwhich you're not meant to take off.
58:13SPEAKERLike people do it, that's what de-litting is.
58:15SPEAKERYou know, we talked to Wes Fenlon about the wet
58:19SPEAKERand wild process of de-litting your CPU a few weeks ago.
58:21SPEAKER- It's a bad idea.
58:23SPEAKER- And that's where you'll find stuff like the liquid metal
58:24SPEAKERis underneath that heat spreader,
58:26SPEAKERbut it's not the type of stuff that your Arctic Silver
58:27SPEAKERis providing or something like that.
58:29SPEAKERYou know, you're kind of classic thermal paste.
58:30SPEAKERSo this is like high quality stuff,
58:33SPEAKERbut it's not unheard of in the PC space by any means.
58:36SPEAKER- Well, especially for the direct die to thermal.
58:39SPEAKERI mean, the interesting thing here
58:40SPEAKERis there's no heat spreader.
58:41SPEAKERSo they're going straight from the die to the heat pipes.
58:45SPEAKERThey're not doing a vapor chamber or anything like that,
58:47SPEAKERwhich is what most GPUs and stuff are doing these days.
58:50SPEAKERSo presumably, you know,
58:53SPEAKERthey felt like there's some efficiency
58:55SPEAKERto doing no heat spreader.
58:58SPEAKERAnd then it does have just a boatload of heat pipes,
59:02SPEAKERwhich there's a little bit of a phase change in them usually
59:07SPEAKERthat run to an enormous, just a truly, truly terrifying
59:12SPEAKERamount of service area on these heat sinks.
59:14SPEAKER- It is huge, it is a gigantic heat sink.
59:16SPEAKERIs it interesting to you at all that they chose to go
59:20SPEAKERwith an internal power supply
59:21SPEAKERconsidering how big this thing already is?
59:23SPEAKER- I look-
59:24SPEAKER- Like that's kind of Sony,
59:25SPEAKERlike I'm trying to remember the last-
59:28SPEAKER- Did the PS2 Slim had an external power supply?
59:30SPEAKER- I was just about to say-
59:31SPEAKER- PS3 Slim.
59:33SPEAKER- I never had the last PS3 Slim, so it may have,
59:36SPEAKERbut the PS2 Slim is the last one
59:38SPEAKERI remember having an external power supply.
59:41SPEAKERYou might be right about that last,
59:42SPEAKERthe third model of PS3 might have also had one.
59:46SPEAKER- So I had the second model of PS3 and it did not,
59:50SPEAKERit was a normal plug.
59:52SPEAKER- Yeah, it was internal.
59:53SPEAKER- Look, I'm a big fan of internal power supplies.
59:55SPEAKERXbox external power supply is always loud
59:58SPEAKER'cause it always gets dusty
59:59SPEAKERand gets gross underneath the entertainment center.
1:00:02SPEAKER- Yeah, I've never heard it
1:00:03SPEAKER'cause I sit far enough from the TV,
1:00:04SPEAKERbut it does pick up dust for sure.
1:00:08SPEAKERBut that doesn't cause any extra thermal concerns really,
1:00:10SPEAKERdoes it, having the power supply internal?
1:00:13SPEAKER- I mean, look, if you're looking at things
1:00:15SPEAKERthat cause, generate heat in there,
1:00:17SPEAKERthe power supply is like a quaternary issue
1:00:22SPEAKERbehind the APU, the SSD, probably the wifi chip,
1:00:27SPEAKERand there's a bunch of other stuff in there
1:00:30SPEAKERthat's gonna get hotter.
1:00:32SPEAKERIt's interesting 'cause they cut back and forth
1:00:33SPEAKERbetween either a cleaned up board with no thermal goo on it,
1:00:38SPEAKERand then a stock one throughout this video.
1:00:43SPEAKERThe SSD, they're connecting to the heat pipe as well,
1:00:46SPEAKERwhich is good.
1:00:47SPEAKERThat means it'll hopefully last longer.
1:00:49SPEAKERLike this seems like a very serviceable machine
1:00:52SPEAKERfor a console.
1:00:53SPEAKER- Yeah, it seems pretty well made.
1:00:54SPEAKERAnd again, like they have been so obsessed
1:00:57SPEAKERwith like small and compact and tightly integrated consoles
1:01:01SPEAKERthat are way too goddamn loud for so long.
1:01:04SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:01:05SPEAKER- It is nice to see them go the other direction
1:01:06SPEAKERand create something that's gonna be quiet
1:01:08SPEAKERand hopefully long lasting.
1:01:09SPEAKER- I hope so.
1:01:10SPEAKERI mean, it remains to be seen,
1:01:11SPEAKERbut as far as I know, nobody's actually seen these
1:01:16SPEAKERin the real world yet, right?
1:01:18SPEAKER- They had, Sony had a few,
1:01:20SPEAKERlike a handful of Japanese influencers and YouTubers in
1:01:24SPEAKERto play the system and capture some footage
1:01:26SPEAKERa week or two ago.
1:01:27SPEAKERThose videos hit, I think last weekend.
1:01:30SPEAKERSo there's just a little bit of footage out there
1:01:32SPEAKERof people just kind of smiling and mugging next to a PS5
1:01:34SPEAKERand like playing some Astrobot and some Godfall.
1:01:37SPEAKER- It looks like this PSU is sealed up enough
1:01:40SPEAKERthat the cockroaches won't be able to get in.
1:01:42SPEAKER- Well, good.
1:01:43SPEAKER- Which is important because that is for whatever reason,
1:01:46SPEAKERdon't, isn't that a New York thing that like cockroaches
1:01:48SPEAKERlove the inside of PlayStations?
1:01:49SPEAKER- I would believe it.
1:01:50SPEAKERI can tell you that ants,
1:01:52SPEAKERjust as ants love the inside of cable modems.
1:01:55SPEAKER- Gross.
1:01:56SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
1:01:58SPEAKER- Okay, I think that's it.
1:02:00SPEAKER- Probably for us, huh?
1:02:01SPEAKER- Yeah, that's a bunch of new hardware.
1:02:03SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:02:04SPEAKER- There's a lot of stuff here at the end of the year.
1:02:05SPEAKER- It turns out.
1:02:06SPEAKER- Two consoles.
1:02:07SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:02:08SPEAKER- New AMD CPUs, new video cards from both AMD and Nvidia.
1:02:11SPEAKERThere's just a giant stack of hardware to talk about.
1:02:14SPEAKER- Yeah, I wasn't, I was kind of, I wondered what the,
1:02:18SPEAKERwell, next week is iPhones, presumably.
1:02:20SPEAKER- Oh, right, yeah.
1:02:21SPEAKER- Yeah, I was kind of expecting a quiet year
1:02:24SPEAKERgiven the Rona and the manufacturing situation,
1:02:26SPEAKERbut it seems like everybody's ramped back up
1:02:28SPEAKERand is working at full speed again.
1:02:30SPEAKER- Looks out.
1:02:31SPEAKER- And the investors wait for no one.
1:02:34SPEAKER- Yeah, Foxconn doesn't sleep, right?
1:02:36SPEAKER- The shareholder, no, the shareholders don't sleep.
1:02:38SPEAKER- Well, yeah.
1:02:39SPEAKER- The shareholders expect product cycles to be met
1:02:41SPEAKERand earnings to be generated and, you know.
1:02:46SPEAKER- Revenue targets must continue, Brad.
1:02:47SPEAKER- Yes.
1:02:49SPEAKERSo, yeah.
1:02:51SPEAKER- Yeah, so this is the part of the show
1:02:53SPEAKERwhere we thank our patrons.
1:02:56SPEAKERAs always, one of my, the best part of my morning
1:03:00SPEAKERis getting up and firing up the TechPod Discord
1:03:03SPEAKERand finding out what people are talking about this morning.
1:03:07SPEAKERThis morning, it was, well, there's a bunch of,
1:03:11SPEAKERlook, we don't need to get into the specifics
1:03:13SPEAKER'cause there's a bunch of inside baseball stuff in there.
1:03:16SPEAKERApparently, I just found out that I'm on Penny Arcade today
1:03:19SPEAKERfrom our Discord.
1:03:20SPEAKER- What?
1:03:21SPEAKER- Well, Gary and I have been playing golf
1:03:23SPEAKERwith the Penny Arcade guys on the reg.
1:03:25SPEAKER- Wait, we're like in an illustrated form?
1:03:26SPEAKERDid they put you in a comic?
1:03:27SPEAKER- They did not draw me, which is a disappointment.
1:03:30SPEAKERThey just used my name.
1:03:31SPEAKERThey called me the Budget Will Smith, Brad.
1:03:34SPEAKER- Oh, okay.
1:03:36SPEAKERI don't know, I feel like I'm being watched right now,
1:03:38SPEAKERbut I'm just gonna leave that one alone.
1:03:40SPEAKER- Yeah, just walk away.
1:03:43SPEAKERBut yeah, if you wanna get on the Patreon Discord,
1:03:46SPEAKERthe TechPod Discord, you can, by backing us
1:03:49SPEAKERat the $2 level, and you can do that
1:03:52SPEAKERby going to patreon.com/techpod.
1:03:55SPEAKERYour money is used to support the show
1:03:57SPEAKERand keep this thing going.
1:04:00SPEAKER- Yeah, y'all are the reason we're still doing this.
1:04:02SPEAKER- Yeah, we started out doing this
1:04:04SPEAKERjust 'cause we wanted to have an excuse to talk,
1:04:05SPEAKERand now it turns out Brad is one of the only human faces
1:04:07SPEAKERI see on the day-to-day outside of my immediate family.
1:04:13SPEAKERBut yeah, thanks, as always, to our executive producer level
1:04:16SPEAKERpatrons, Andrew Cotton, David Allen, and Jacob Chappell,
1:04:19SPEAKERas well as everybody who supports the Discord
1:04:21SPEAKERand the Patreon and the podcast.
1:04:25SPEAKERAnd the conversations I was in,
1:04:28SPEAKERI had some PCI Express lane problems earlier this week
1:04:32SPEAKERand some M2 problems earlier this week
1:04:35SPEAKERand popped into the Personal Computers,
1:04:37SPEAKERand it's Personal Computers
1:04:39SPEAKERand Other Maddening Devices channel,
1:04:41SPEAKERand people gave some real good advice that was like,
1:04:44SPEAKER"Hey, just get rid of the second M2 card in your computer
1:04:47SPEAKERand just use a SATA SSD 'cause for what you're using it for,
1:04:51SPEAKERit's gonna be fine."
1:04:51SPEAKERAnd then my problem went away
1:04:53SPEAKERbecause instead of obsessing over small details,
1:04:55SPEAKERI just moved on and swapped some hardware around
1:04:59SPEAKERand everything's better now, so.
1:05:00SPEAKER- Generally, asking a question on that server
1:05:02SPEAKERand then doing what the consensus says to do
1:05:04SPEAKERis a pretty safe bet, I have found.
1:05:06SPEAKER- Well, and you learn about other things as well.
1:05:09SPEAKERThe Reading Room, which we added
1:05:10SPEAKERafter last week's Hitchhiker's Guide episode
1:05:14SPEAKERhas been very popular,
1:05:15SPEAKERand I've got a giant list of books to read now,
1:05:18SPEAKERso thanks, everyone.
1:05:21SPEAKERIf you wanna find out more about the Patreon,
1:05:23SPEAKERyou can by going to patreon.com/techpod.
1:05:26SPEAKERWe'll do emails in a couple of weeks,
1:05:28SPEAKERprobably maybe first week of November,
1:05:29SPEAKERgiven that there's hardware coming at the end of the month
1:05:31SPEAKERthat we might wanna talk about,
1:05:33SPEAKERbut you can find out about that.
1:05:36SPEAKERYou can send emails in to techpod@content.town,
1:05:39SPEAKERor if you just wanna let people know
1:05:40SPEAKERthat the podcast is awesome,
1:05:41SPEAKERsend them to techpod.content.town.
1:05:44SPEAKERThis is all very simple and straightforward.
1:05:46SPEAKERIt's a perfectly-- - Yes, yes.
1:05:47SPEAKER- Chromulant naming scheme.
1:05:48SPEAKER- Yes.
1:05:50SPEAKER- I guess that'll do it for us.
1:05:52SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:05:55SPEAKERWhat's our outro?
1:05:56SPEAKERWhat do you got, man?
1:05:57SPEAKERSend us out.
1:05:59SPEAKER- I guess I'll see you next--
1:06:00SPEAKER- This is the danger of the early AM podcast.
1:06:02SPEAKERAt some point, the brain might just short-circuit.
1:06:04SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:06:05SPEAKERI ran out of coffee
1:06:06SPEAKERabout the time we started talking about boost clocks.
1:06:08SPEAKER- I was just about to say,
1:06:09SPEAKERthis cup can only hold so much coffee,
1:06:10SPEAKERand I haven't gotten to re-up yet,
1:06:11SPEAKERso let's just boost clock on out of here.
1:06:15SPEAKERThat's what I got.
1:06:16SPEAKER- See you all next week.
1:06:19SPEAKERBye, everybody.
1:06:20SPEAKER(upbeat music)