00:00SPEAKER- Okay, Steve, I took a big load of stuff
00:02SPEAKERover to PC World the other day.
00:04SPEAKER- Oh, awesome.
00:05SPEAKER- A full Ionic 5 back full of old,
00:10SPEAKERlook, don't tell anybody,
00:10SPEAKERbut I put a bunch of prototype VR headsets
00:13SPEAKERand kind of ephemera of 20 plus years
00:19SPEAKERof reviewing PC hardware.
00:21SPEAKERYou know, I did the thing I always joke about
00:24SPEAKERand took all the crap from my garage
00:25SPEAKERthat's been aging in there for the last,
00:27SPEAKERyou know, X number of years and we're gonna take it
00:30SPEAKERto the electronics flea market next week.
00:33SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, last month,
00:35SPEAKERI got rid of two 42-gallon bins of stuff,
00:39SPEAKERincluding a Commodore PET, so totally know the feeling
00:43SPEAKERand yeah, if you want some rare prototype hardware,
00:46SPEAKERhit up the flea market early
00:48SPEAKERand also get things like motherboards
00:50SPEAKERfor pennies on the dollar.
00:52SPEAKERLike, I think Adam took the price of a motherboard
00:55SPEAKERand cut it to 20% and just stuck it on the table.
00:58SPEAKER- Stuck it, yeah, we were selling current gen,
01:00SPEAKERit was like, one guy walked around, walked in,
01:02SPEAKERI think he were gonna be walking around at this point,
01:04SPEAKERbut he came by and was like,
01:05SPEAKER"Wow, this is the newest stuff I've ever seen here,"
01:08SPEAKER'cause we had current gen chipsets
01:10SPEAKERand like new, Adam cleaned out the case stack
01:14SPEAKERfrom the PC World review office
01:16SPEAKER'cause for folks who don't know,
01:19SPEAKERI don't think we talked about it in this podcast yet,
01:21SPEAKERbut PC World, well, it's not an official PC World thing,
01:26SPEAKERI guess, it's Adam through PC World
01:29SPEAKERand with the help of the vendors
01:31SPEAKERwho send in a bunch of stuff for review
01:32SPEAKERand then don't ever send call tags to get it back,
01:35SPEAKERis they're cleaning out the PC World hardware storage closet
01:39SPEAKERand donating everything that we make selling that stuff
01:45SPEAKERto a charity that our friend Gordon Mong's family
01:50SPEAKERthought he would like.
01:52SPEAKERSo it's a group in Oakland in the East Bay
01:55SPEAKERwho does computer refurbishment
01:58SPEAKERand gets computers to underserved families
02:00SPEAKERand underserved folks in the East Bay,
02:02SPEAKERwhich I thought was very fitting
02:05SPEAKER'cause Gordon loved computers
02:06SPEAKERand Gordon loved the East Bay, so.
02:09SPEAKER- Yeah, it's a tech exchange, I think, is the nonprofit
02:12SPEAKERand yeah, there's all kinds of stuff,
02:14SPEAKERnot only the things from the PC World office,
02:17SPEAKERbut from our garages, right?
02:19SPEAKERI had "Bite" magazines from 1980 to '82
02:25SPEAKERand those were selling at a pretty good clip,
02:30SPEAKERso people were excited.
02:31SPEAKER- People were stoked about those, the Pet,
02:34SPEAKERyou had a lot of people come by and look at the Pet
02:36SPEAKERand talk fondly about the kickstand,
02:38SPEAKERwhich I didn't know about.
02:40SPEAKER- Oh yeah, yeah, the little thing that holds it up
02:41SPEAKERwhen you flip the hood, yeah.
02:44SPEAKER- That was too expensive a computer for me
02:46SPEAKERwhen I was that age, I think, so.
02:49SPEAKERThe one I had there was designed for schools
02:52SPEAKERbecause it had the metal case
02:53SPEAKERand so kids could bead on it
02:55SPEAKERand in fact, I'm really happy with the person
02:57SPEAKERwho ended up buying it because it was someone
02:59SPEAKERwho was restoring one a long time ago
03:02SPEAKERand once he got it up and running,
03:03SPEAKERhe used it to teach his daughter how to program.
03:07SPEAKER- Oh, that's amazing.
03:08SPEAKER- And so he really wanted to kind of relive that
03:11SPEAKERbecause I believe his daughter was going now
03:13SPEAKERto college for computer science,
03:15SPEAKERso it's one of those full circle things, it was great.
03:17SPEAKER- Just in time for the end of computer science.
03:20SPEAKER- Right. (laughs)
03:21SPEAKERYes, I thought we weren't gonna talk about that.
03:23SPEAKER- Yeah, no, no, no, we're not gonna tell you.
03:24SPEAKERThis is the no AI week.
03:25SPEAKERWe're not gonna talk about that at all.
03:27SPEAKERBut yeah, so we'll be there.
03:29SPEAKERFor folks who don't know,
03:30SPEAKERwe're talking about the Bay Area Electronics Market.
03:32SPEAKERBrad and I have talked about it off and on over the years,
03:34SPEAKERbut Steve, you and Brad and I
03:37SPEAKERand an increasing group of friends
03:41SPEAKERmake the pilgrimage down pretty much once a month
03:43SPEAKERduring the summer to go and find good stuff.
03:48SPEAKERNow, I think, are you gonna be there next week?
03:50SPEAKER'Cause next week is CACS, right?
03:52SPEAKER- Yeah, so I will not be there
03:53SPEAKERbecause I will be setting up for California Extreme,
03:56SPEAKERbut I think the best way to describe this podcast
03:59SPEAKERis imagine you being in the car with us
04:01SPEAKERas we drive down to Saratoga for the electronics market.
04:04SPEAKER- Yeah, that's exactly it.
04:06SPEAKER(upbeat music)
04:13SPEAKER(upbeat music continues)
04:34SPEAKER- Welcome to "Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod."
04:36SPEAKERI'm Will.
04:37SPEAKERAnd... - I'm...
04:38SPEAKER- Oh, go ahead. - I'm Steve Lin.
04:40SPEAKER- Yes. - I'm not Brad.
04:41SPEAKER- Steve Lin, Brad, so folks,
04:44SPEAKERpatrons probably have already heard our patron exclusive,
04:46SPEAKERour patron episode this month.
04:48SPEAKERBrad is back, was back for that.
04:50SPEAKERHe's still kinda coming back.
04:52SPEAKERHe had a death in the family.
04:55SPEAKERI'm sure we'll talk about it a little bit next week,
04:57SPEAKERbut he's doing as well as you can expect.
05:04SPEAKERI told him yesterday,
05:05SPEAKERit's the longest time in seven years
05:07SPEAKERI've gone without seeing his face.
05:08SPEAKERAnd it turns out I miss seeing my friend Brad,
05:11SPEAKERand we're all kinda thinking about him
05:14SPEAKERand hoping he's doing better.
05:16SPEAKERSo, hoping he's doing okay.
05:19SPEAKER- Much love to Brad and his family.
05:21SPEAKERAnd thanks to all the listeners for the tons of support
05:25SPEAKERthat I'm seeing in the threads and everything else.
05:28SPEAKER- But our fill-in Brad,
05:29SPEAKERnot that Brad can be replaced ever,
05:32SPEAKERour fill-in Brad this week is Steve Lin,
05:33SPEAKERwho you remember from two years ago-ish,
05:37SPEAKERabout now, I think.
05:39SPEAKERYou came on to talk about the vintage computer festival.
05:42SPEAKERDid Brad go to that too?
05:43SPEAKERWas he at that one?
05:44SPEAKER- Yes, he did.
05:45SPEAKERSo, we went to that one,
05:46SPEAKERand I think we're gonna try to hit up the one this weekend.
05:49SPEAKERBy the time you're listening to this,
05:50SPEAKERif you're listening on Sunday morning,
05:52SPEAKERyou still have time to make it to VCF West.
05:55SPEAKERBut if you're listening after, then you missed it.
05:58SPEAKER- Yeah, next year.
05:59SPEAKER- Next year.
06:00SPEAKER- But it's funny 'cause this in California,
06:04SPEAKERthis is this weekend, California Extreme is next weekend.
06:07SPEAKERIf you're the right kind of computer and/or video game nerd,
06:10SPEAKERflying to San Francisco for VCF
06:12SPEAKERand staying through California Extreme
06:14SPEAKERis maybe the ultimate summer vacation.
06:17SPEAKER- Yeah, it's funny how that works out.
06:19SPEAKERI mean, it's been that way now
06:20SPEAKERfor I think the past three or four years
06:23SPEAKERwhere they're just right on top of each other.
06:24SPEAKER- That's funny.
06:26SPEAKER- Yeah.
06:26SPEAKER- But we're here today.
06:28SPEAKERToday, one of the things,
06:30SPEAKERlike, Steve, you've been the person I call
06:32SPEAKERwhen I have a problem with some old electronics
06:34SPEAKERfor about 15 years now, it seems like.
06:37SPEAKER- Okay.
06:38SPEAKER- And I think part of that is that you,
06:44SPEAKERso years and years ago when we were still working
06:46SPEAKERwith Giant Bomb, the whiskey,
06:47SPEAKERand I was tested in the whiskey media basement,
06:51SPEAKERI remember Ryan Davis introduced me to you as,
06:56SPEAKERoh yeah, Steve's our arcade machine guy.
06:59SPEAKERHe knows, he's who we ask when we have questions
07:01SPEAKERabout arcade machines.
07:02SPEAKERIt's like, oh, that seems useful for you guys,
07:04SPEAKERbut I'm never gonna have an arcade machine,
07:05SPEAKERso I'm good.
07:08SPEAKERBut then we started hanging out and started talking about,
07:11SPEAKERyou know, you've been the same kind of computer nerd
07:14SPEAKERthat I've been for a long time,
07:15SPEAKERthe guy who figures out how to do the thing
07:17SPEAKERand makes it happen.
07:19SPEAKERAnd today we're gonna talk about two things really.
07:22SPEAKERWell, three things really,
07:23SPEAKER'cause I wanna talk about, first,
07:25SPEAKERI wanna talk about the video game history.
07:26SPEAKERSo you're one of the founders
07:28SPEAKERof the Video Game History Foundation.
07:30SPEAKER- Yeah, so I worked with Frank Saffoldi
07:32SPEAKERto get things started.
07:33SPEAKERI am on the board.
07:34SPEAKERHe's the full-timer.
07:36SPEAKER- Okay.
07:37SPEAKER- Yeah, and so we're there to support.
07:38SPEAKERThere are three full-time employees of VGHF.
07:41SPEAKER- And do you all release something really cool there
07:45SPEAKERabout a week ago, two weeks ago now?
07:47SPEAKER- Yeah, so two weeks ago we released our E3 archive,
07:52SPEAKERwhich includes a number of things.
07:54SPEAKERThere's a Carolyn Rauch ephemera,
07:57SPEAKERand she was there from the beginning, starting E3.
08:00SPEAKER- Yeah, she was the IDGA president or lead
08:03SPEAKERor in charge of E3 or something.
08:04SPEAKERI don't remember what to say, parole, but.
08:07SPEAKER- Yeah, so it's her and Doug who kind of started everything.
08:10SPEAKERAnd it is just a huge treasure trove of everything
08:14SPEAKERdown to, hey, how much does it cost
08:16SPEAKERto sponsor the coffee cup for E3 in '96?
08:20SPEAKER- Yeah, my favorite thing that I found was the,
08:22SPEAKERit's 25 grand to get your company name,
08:25SPEAKERlike when Nintendo and Epic were paying for badge lanyards.
08:28SPEAKERI guess Epic wasn't at that point,
08:30SPEAKERbut I feel like Nintendo probably did
08:32SPEAKERthe first time I went, they paid 25K for all those badges,
08:36SPEAKERwhich is really funny to me, the badge lanyards.
08:40SPEAKERBut it's also, you also have like show dailies, so.
08:44SPEAKER- Yeah, there's show guides and then there's also
08:47SPEAKERthe Anthony Carisi videotapes.
08:49SPEAKERSo Anthony basically walked around a lot of the E3 shows
08:53SPEAKERwith a video camera, right, and shot everything.
08:56SPEAKERAnd we have an example on our sort of sizzle reel video
09:00SPEAKERof you combine the ephemera, photographs
09:03SPEAKERthat Carolyn had taken, video from Anthony,
09:05SPEAKERand the show guides, and you can actually determine
09:07SPEAKERexactly where some of those photos were taken.
09:11SPEAKERAnd we put little cones of color that kind of show,
09:15SPEAKERhey, here's where Anthony was standing
09:17SPEAKERwhen he shot that video.
09:18SPEAKER- It's like that Microsoft thing that they used to do
09:20SPEAKERwhere they took all the photos that were shot of,
09:23SPEAKERyou know, the Capitol building in D.C. or whatever,
09:25SPEAKERand would build a 3D model out of it.
09:28SPEAKERThat's, it's really cool.
09:30SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, definitely tons of history there.
09:32SPEAKERI really recommend that if you have any interest at all
09:35SPEAKERin game history, and particularly like E3,
09:39SPEAKERwhich was a seminal event,
09:40SPEAKERI highly encourage you to dig in.
09:42SPEAKER- Yeah, the show dailies, for folks who don't know,
09:45SPEAKERthey used to, at big trade shows,
09:48SPEAKERthey used to do like a daily newspaper that would be like,
09:50SPEAKERhey, here's the keynotes that are happening today.
09:52SPEAKERHere's the conference tracks that are happening today.
09:55SPEAKERHere's some stuff that was written clearly
09:58SPEAKERby the marketing departments of these giant companies.
10:00SPEAKERHere's some stuff that we paid some journalists
10:02SPEAKERwho were probably really hungover to write,
10:04SPEAKERyou know, at midnight or one o'clock in the morning
10:07SPEAKERthat got printed in the morning.
10:09SPEAKERAnd then there's like a party roundup in the back of that,
10:12SPEAKERwhich was really funny.
10:13SPEAKERI never, I never realized, I never,
10:15SPEAKERI probably never picked up the E3 show daily.
10:18SPEAKERI definitely did for Comptex, Comptex, or Com,
10:21SPEAKERsorry, Comdex and CES, but yeah, it's really fun.
10:25SPEAKERIt's definitely worth digging into
10:26SPEAKERand spending some time with
10:28SPEAKER'cause the folks over there, Phil and Frank and everybody,
10:31SPEAKERhave done a really lovely job with it.
10:33SPEAKER- Yeah, by the way, well, did you,
10:34SPEAKERI don't know if you know this or not,
10:36SPEAKERbut the very first time I met you in person
10:38SPEAKERwas sharing a cab at E3.
10:40SPEAKER- What, really?
10:41SPEAKER- Yeah.
10:42SPEAKERSo I got in, we were, I think, all taking a cab
10:45SPEAKERmaybe to the Microsoft party.
10:47SPEAKER- In Santa Monica?
10:49SPEAKER- No, no, this was in LA.
10:53SPEAKERAnd you introduced yourself as Will Smith.
10:56SPEAKERI'm like, oh yeah, from, I think I might've said
11:00SPEAKERI'm a big boot reader.
11:02SPEAKERAnd you're like, oh, thank you for not yelling at me
11:05SPEAKERfor ruining the magazine, I believe is what you said.
11:08SPEAKER- You may have been the first person ever
11:10SPEAKERwho recognized me, Steve, 'cause I remember
11:13SPEAKERthat that happened maybe three times in my life
11:15SPEAKERup until the, I started doing videos.
11:17SPEAKERSo that is really, really funny.
11:19SPEAKERI had no idea.
11:20SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, I was coming out of Kensho Hall
11:22SPEAKERbecause there was the Penny Arcade meetup.
11:24SPEAKERSo I have this weird thing in my head of,
11:27SPEAKERthat's when I met Will Smith.
11:30SPEAKER- So that was, God, if it was Kensho,
11:34SPEAKERit had to be like 2007 or 2006, right?
11:36SPEAKERIt was, when did they go to Santa Monica?
11:39SPEAKERWe're getting off track here, but when did they go
11:41SPEAKERto Santa Monica, that was like 2007?
11:43SPEAKER- I cannot remember off topic.
11:45SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:46SPEAKER- Nair giving me a quiz, but it was,
11:48SPEAKERactually it was, had to be before then.
11:50SPEAKERI was thinking like 2003-ish.
11:53SPEAKER- Okay, so it was when, yeah, wow, that's wild.
11:56SPEAKERThat's really funny, okay.
11:57SPEAKEROkay, wow, I had no idea, I'm shocked.
12:00SPEAKERYou've stunned me, Steve.
12:02SPEAKER- Cold open too.
12:03SPEAKER- Yeah, open harder.
12:07SPEAKERSo okay, so let's start with collecting,
12:09SPEAKER'cause I think collecting, you have,
12:14SPEAKERover the years, you had a whole complete set
12:17SPEAKERof Nintendo, NES, you had complete sets
12:21SPEAKERof multiple platforms, right, of everything, yeah?
12:24SPEAKER- Yeah.
12:25SPEAKER- And I'm curious how you got started on that.
12:28SPEAKERLike how did you, did you sit down one day
12:30SPEAKERand you were like, yeah, I'm gonna get
12:31SPEAKERevery Nintendo game ever released.
12:34SPEAKEROr did you, did it just kind of start happening,
12:37SPEAKERthen you looked around and you were like,
12:38SPEAKERoh wow, I've got like 2/3 of every Nintendo game
12:42SPEAKERever released and I can make this happen.
12:45SPEAKER- Well, the funny thing was that when I first started,
12:48SPEAKERso I never got rid of anything that I had
12:50SPEAKERwhen I was a kid.
12:51SPEAKERAnd so there was, hey, like, I wanna keep this.
12:56SPEAKERAnd I mowed basically like every lawn in the neighborhood
12:59SPEAKERso that I could get money to buy video games.
13:02SPEAKERSo I had a relatively large collection.
13:04SPEAKERAnd I might have said this on some other podcast,
13:06SPEAKERbut my parents encouraged me to understand more
13:09SPEAKERabout the business of video games early on.
13:11SPEAKERAnd so I was reading things like annual reports.
13:14SPEAKERAnd so the industry was important to me.
13:18SPEAKERAnd so when I started collecting NES games,
13:22SPEAKERwe didn't have a full list
13:24SPEAKERbecause it was still like a viable platform.
13:27SPEAKERAnd so this is things like trading,
13:33SPEAKERactually mailing lists to people and comparing and saying,
13:38SPEAKERhey, have you ever found this game?
13:40SPEAKEROr here's, I found a game that is not on the list.
13:43SPEAKERAnd in the late 80s, I worked at a used video game store.
13:48SPEAKERAnd so we were getting NES trade-ins and we had our own list.
13:51SPEAKERAnd so we're basically kind of deduping and combining.
13:54SPEAKERAnd then Mike Ettler became,
13:57SPEAKERthe Mike Ettler's list became sort of the Bible
14:01SPEAKERof NES collecting.
14:03SPEAKERAnd having worked in the store,
14:05SPEAKERa game would come in that I didn't have.
14:07SPEAKERAnd because we were giving people pennies on the dollar
14:10SPEAKERfor trade-ins, I was like,
14:12SPEAKERoh, I'll just add this to my collection.
14:14SPEAKERAnd then it just started snowballing from there
14:17SPEAKERto where we would throw away the boxes.
14:20SPEAKERSo I would keep all the boxes
14:22SPEAKERand I would keep all the manuals.
14:23SPEAKERAnd then all of a sudden I have this enormous collection.
14:26SPEAKERAnd I was like, well, I'm pretty close.
14:28SPEAKERSo I might as well try to finish it all.
14:30SPEAKERAnd then that just snowballed into all the other systems.
14:34SPEAKER- And did you, did you go,
14:35SPEAKERwere you like looking for Japanese and European games too
14:38SPEAKERat the same time?
14:39SPEAKEROr were you mostly focused on North America at that point?
14:41SPEAKER- I was focused on North America, although I did have,
14:45SPEAKERI was fortunate enough to travel to Asia a number of times
14:48SPEAKERand particularly Japan.
14:51SPEAKERAnd this is when it was like that transition
14:53SPEAKERfrom Famicom to PC Engine
14:56SPEAKERand then PC Engine to the other systems.
14:58SPEAKERAnd so I would do the thing where I would pack a suitcase
15:01SPEAKERinside a suitcase and come back with a suitcase
15:04SPEAKERfull of video games.
15:05SPEAKERAnd so I had a pretty extensive Japanese collection as well.
15:10SPEAKER- This was like mid-90s, late 90s at that point probably?
15:13SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
15:14SPEAKERI mean, you know, what, like mid-90s
15:16SPEAKERis when I started hitting,
15:18SPEAKERI started really collecting in earnest
15:20SPEAKERand then that's also when like eBay started coming up
15:23SPEAKERand there were other ways of purchasing games.
15:26SPEAKER- Well, and that point, at that point,
15:28SPEAKERfor folks who are younger and don't remember,
15:29SPEAKERat that point, you know, I remember when the Nintendo,
15:33SPEAKERwhen the NES came out,
15:35SPEAKERall of a sudden you'd go to a flea market
15:37SPEAKERand there'd be a guy with a garbage tub full of,
15:40SPEAKERa garbage bin full of Atari 2600 cartridges, right?
15:43SPEAKERAnd you could pay him a buck each for them.
15:46SPEAKERAnd there was definitely a kind of peak,
15:49SPEAKERlike a nadir of interest and a peak in budget pricing
15:54SPEAKERfor those, for the old platform games.
15:56SPEAKER'Cause people were like, well, the new one's out,
15:58SPEAKERnobody wants to play the old one anymore.
15:59SPEAKERAnd the old one's just kind of moldered in a lot of cases.
16:03SPEAKER- Yeah, and in the, especially in the like mid-80s,
16:07SPEAKERthere was the, just the industry crash itself, right?
16:11SPEAKERSo even knew these games were being sold for, you know,
16:15SPEAKERa dollar a piece or something like that.
16:17SPEAKERAnd that was sort of, that was the challenge
16:20SPEAKERfor the folks who had collected Atari and television
16:23SPEAKERand ColecoVision games,
16:24SPEAKERbecause it was even more Wild West than Nintendo, right?
16:28SPEAKERThere's some unlicensed Nintendo stuff,
16:29SPEAKERbut it's far fewer than, you know, Atari 2600,
16:33SPEAKERto where you could theoretically make a game in your garage.
16:37SPEAKERAnd there was a game that was sold door to door in Canada
16:41SPEAKERthat was found a couple of years ago.
16:42SPEAKERIt's like, come on, you're gonna count this one?
16:45SPEAKERThat's like, well, yeah, it was something
16:46SPEAKERthat was made and put in production, so.
16:49SPEAKER- I mean, it's funny, 'cause coming up in PC space,
16:52SPEAKER'cause we had an IBM XT, I think,
16:55SPEAKERfor when I was in high school, basically.
16:59SPEAKERAnd in the PC space, you'd go to like
17:02SPEAKERthe American Legion Post gym on Saturday morning,
17:08SPEAKERand like the computer show would be there
17:10SPEAKERand we had a bunch of like weird beardos
17:12SPEAKERwith Ziploc bags full of floppy disks.
17:16SPEAKERAnd for 20 bucks, you'd buy whatever game
17:19SPEAKERthat they had written,
17:20SPEAKERand some of them would be absolute trash,
17:22SPEAKERand then somebody would give you a shareware copy of Doom,
17:24SPEAKERor this would be before Doom.
17:26SPEAKERBut, you know, you'd get a shareware copy
17:28SPEAKERof something above some adventure game,
17:30SPEAKERand you'd be like, "God, this is incredible.
17:31SPEAKER"How can I get more of this?"
17:32SPEAKERAnd then you had no way of ever finding that person again, so.
17:35SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, it's like the Commander Keen guy,
17:37SPEAKERthe guy who got you that disk.
17:39SPEAKERYou know, this is, once again, like Old Man yells at Cloud,
17:42SPEAKERbut I really miss those computer shows,
17:44SPEAKERand they were still vestiges of it.
17:47SPEAKERWhen I moved here in the late '90s to the Bay Area,
17:50SPEAKERwe would all go to Cow Palace,
17:52SPEAKERand they would have, you know,
17:53SPEAKERyou'd buy a bunch of motherboards and RAM,
17:56SPEAKERSIMs at that period, right?
17:59SPEAKERAnd, yeah.
18:00SPEAKER- We used to go to the Cow Palace show at maximum,
18:03SPEAKERthe maximum PC crew would get up on Saturday morning,
18:05SPEAKERcome down to the Cow Palace computer show,
18:07SPEAKERbut I feel like that stopped by 2002 or 2003
18:10SPEAKERat the absolute latest.
18:12SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
18:13SPEAKER- And on one hand, it probably wasn't great,
18:18SPEAKERand there was probably a lot of problematic stuff about it,
18:20SPEAKERbut on the other hand, it felt like the end of an era
18:24SPEAKERwhen those things stopped.
18:25SPEAKERAnd when, you know, the thing that killed them eventually,
18:28SPEAKERI guess, was the rise of the internet,
18:30SPEAKERand the fact that you could go order hardware
18:33SPEAKERfrom any screwdriver shop in the country,
18:35SPEAKERand they all started competing against each other,
18:36SPEAKERand then CompUSA came around,
18:38SPEAKERand you know, the fact that you could just download software
18:43SPEAKERfrom the internet meant you didn't have to floppy bag
18:45SPEAKERup your software and sell it anymore.
18:47SPEAKER- Yeah, well, that dovetails with, you know,
18:49SPEAKERwhen you say like the death of the computer show.
18:52SPEAKERThat was also the same time
18:54SPEAKERwhen arcade auctions stopped happening, right?
18:57SPEAKERAnd so, you know, along with console,
19:00SPEAKERI collected arcade and pinball machines,
19:02SPEAKERand late '90s, early 2000s,
19:05SPEAKERthat is peak operators unloading all of their machines
19:10SPEAKERfrom the '80s.
19:10SPEAKERAnd so I have auction results from those years
19:15SPEAKERthat are just absurd now, right?
19:16SPEAKERIt's like, here's a Twilight Zone pinball for $1,000,
19:20SPEAKERand that is like an $8,000 machine now.
19:24SPEAKERAnd this is where I was collecting
19:27SPEAKERbecause it was inexpensive,
19:29SPEAKERand the most expensive thing for me was actually the space,
19:32SPEAKERright, it's like how much can I fit in my apartment?
19:35SPEAKERAnd I would buy stuff that was not working.
19:39SPEAKERAnd the thing I really like about arcade machines
19:43SPEAKERis I would do woodwork, I would do artwork and electronics.
19:46SPEAKERSo it was sort of multidisciplinary,
19:47SPEAKERand I would learn a lot through that process.
19:50SPEAKERAnd so, you know, one of the things
19:52SPEAKERwhen we talk about collecting,
19:53SPEAKERthere's a sort of constant state
19:56SPEAKERof upgrading or learning more,
19:58SPEAKERand it's like, oh, you know, I've got this stuff,
20:01SPEAKERhere's what I'm actually personally interested in.
20:04SPEAKERAnd so you can sort of refine what your niche might be.
20:08SPEAKER- Well, it's funny, one of the things we talked about
20:10SPEAKERearly on in the tested days, I guess,
20:13SPEAKERnot in the cab on the way back from E3,
20:17SPEAKERwas about the kind of,
20:19SPEAKERthe preservation of the original hardware
20:21SPEAKERand the old ways to play the games.
20:24SPEAKERAnd like at the time,
20:26SPEAKERI remember you being kind of anti-emulation
20:30SPEAKERin terms of, hey, the scene
20:34SPEAKERis about preserving the old hardware.
20:36SPEAKERAnd I think you've shifted on that
20:37SPEAKERpretty dramatically since then.
20:39SPEAKER- Oh yeah, very much so.
20:40SPEAKERI mean, I play most of my stuff on the Mr.
20:43SPEAKERAnd yeah, I think at the time it was,
20:46SPEAKERthere was still not a super strong community
20:50SPEAKERfor preserving games.
20:53SPEAKERAnd it was kind of a little Wild West-y,
20:56SPEAKERand one of the things that I ran into was,
21:00SPEAKERI mean, I was the weirdo in the collecting scene
21:04SPEAKERthat was buying NES games for a dollar
21:07SPEAKERwhen everyone was like, oh,
21:09SPEAKERthe real money's in the Atari stuff.
21:11SPEAKERThat's really rare, right?
21:12SPEAKERLike I need Cuba Color and I need Video Life
21:15SPEAKERand all these other things.
21:17SPEAKERAnd like, oh, there's a guy buying the dollar NES games.
21:20SPEAKERAnd so over time, I'm much more comfortable
21:24SPEAKERthat anything with a retail release has been preserved,
21:29SPEAKERor someone's got it.
21:31SPEAKERAnd so it's why I shifted over to things like prototypes
21:34SPEAKERand paper and sort of oral histories,
21:38SPEAKERthings that, those are the things now I need to see preserved
21:42SPEAKERand so on the emulation side,
21:44SPEAKERit's also gotten much better, right?
21:47SPEAKERAnd so I think that ease of use and everything else
21:50SPEAKERand the experience with the filters and everything else
21:52SPEAKERto recreate the look of a CRT,
21:59SPEAKERI've kind of shifted over.
22:00SPEAKERLike I very rarely actually pull out a physical cartridge
22:03SPEAKERand soon I won't have any of them
22:05SPEAKERbecause they'll be at the strong.
22:07SPEAKER- Well, okay, we're gonna talk about that in a little bit,
22:09SPEAKERbut I wanna go back to the arcade games for a sec
22:12SPEAKER'cause I do, like there was a really glorious period of time
22:16SPEAKERin the Bay Area at least in the early 2000s
22:19SPEAKERwhen Craigslist was rising,
22:22SPEAKERand Pizza Hut was waning.
22:24SPEAKERAnd you would, like I would be in like,
22:28SPEAKERI'd get an A message from somebody who was like,
22:29SPEAKER"Hey, the Pizza Hut out on El Camino Real
22:32SPEAKERis shutting down and it looks like
22:34SPEAKERthey're just gonna throw the Ms. Pac-Man
22:36SPEAKERthat's been in there for the last 20 years in the trash."
22:39SPEAKERYou know, and you'd be like, you'd see the message
22:43SPEAKERand somebody would be like,
22:44SPEAKER"Hey, does anybody who has a pickup truck,
22:45SPEAKERcan somebody go pick it up, right?"
22:47SPEAKERAnd I didn't have a pickup truck,
22:50SPEAKERbut I had an SUV that could fit a cocktail cabinet,
22:52SPEAKERno problem, and we would go get those.
22:56SPEAKERBut I'm really, it's funny, I'm regretful.
23:00SPEAKERI live in the Bay Area,
23:01SPEAKERso I don't have room for an arcade machine in my house
23:03SPEAKERat this point, right?
23:06SPEAKERI've made grown up responsible decisions,
23:08SPEAKERlike I'm gonna have a dining room table instead,
23:10SPEAKERor we need to have chairs for more than three people
23:13SPEAKERin our house, you know, that kind of stuff.
23:17SPEAKERBut it often feels like, looking back on it now,
23:20SPEAKERI feel like I missed the window for all of that stuff
23:22SPEAKERand it feels like there was a high watermark
23:25SPEAKERfor normal people being able to collect this stuff,
23:28SPEAKERand then, or even just get the things
23:31SPEAKERthat they would be interested in having
23:33SPEAKERout of this time period.
23:34SPEAKERAnd now maybe that time has passed.
23:36SPEAKER- I would say that for arcade games,
23:41SPEAKERyou could still get them.
23:42SPEAKERI mean, there's stuff like Arcade 1-Up.
23:43SPEAKERI don't encourage that because it's usually LCD screens,
23:46SPEAKERbut you know, arcade machines, it's not for everyone, right?
23:50SPEAKERIt's one game, it's super heavy,
23:53SPEAKERand you have to maintain it, right?
23:55SPEAKERI would say that the pricing back then was absurd, right?
23:59SPEAKERI would go to arcade auctions where literally games
24:01SPEAKERwould sell for a dollar because they didn't want
24:04SPEAKERto put it back on the truck.
24:05SPEAKER- Yeah.
24:06SPEAKER- And so, you know, and sometimes you would need
24:09SPEAKERto do restoration and everything, like I said,
24:11SPEAKERthat's what I was really excited about.
24:13SPEAKERWhere I would say that people have shifted is to pinball,
24:17SPEAKERright, pinball has had a resurgence probably over the past,
24:21SPEAKERmaybe like, maybe pre-COVID, maybe 10 years or so.
24:25SPEAKER- Did it start when Stern and those guys started releasing
24:27SPEAKERnew tables that were kind of fancied up?
24:30SPEAKERIs that what kicked it off, you think?
24:32SPEAKER- I think there's two things.
24:33SPEAKEROne is Stern started having competition, right?
24:38SPEAKERYou know, for a long time, they were the only game in town,
24:41SPEAKERliterally, and now we've got other folks making other games.
24:46SPEAKERAnd so they started, they had to up their quality level.
24:50SPEAKERAnd then I think people wanted to go back to this sort of,
24:55SPEAKERthe ball is wild, analog experience.
24:57SPEAKERAnd you started seeing more of it in things like bars
25:00SPEAKERand like pinball leagues and everything popping up.
25:04SPEAKERAnd so that has really led
25:05SPEAKERto a lot more people discovering it.
25:07SPEAKERNow, getting a pinball machine is even more maintenance
25:10SPEAKERand it's even more expensive and it's also incredibly loud.
25:15SPEAKERYou know, some people ask, "Oh, could we put one
25:17SPEAKERin the office?"
25:18SPEAKERI'm like, "I could turn the volume to zero
25:20SPEAKERand it would be the loudest thing in the office."
25:21SPEAKER- Oh yeah. - Right?
25:22SPEAKERSo yeah, that's where people have kind of gravitated towards.
25:28SPEAKERAnd you're seeing a lot of people who wanna get started.
25:30SPEAKERIt's like, "Oh, maybe I should get a pinball machine."
25:32SPEAKERAnd you know, helping out a lot of new buyers
25:37SPEAKERwith the experience of maintaining a thing
25:42SPEAKERthat has a giant ingot flying around.
25:44SPEAKER- As a kid, when I was 16 years old or 15 years old,
25:49SPEAKERI'd taken high school electronics
25:51SPEAKERand the guy, my dad's office was in a strip mall
25:55SPEAKERand there was a guy next door that had like,
25:58SPEAKERI don't know, six arcade machines
25:59SPEAKERand three or four pinball machines in the back of his bar.
26:02SPEAKERAnd he was like, "Hey, can you fix this pinball machine
26:06SPEAKERfor me?
26:07SPEAKERYou look like a nerdy kid."
26:09SPEAKERI was like, "Sure, I'll give it a stab
26:10SPEAKERand learn how to change the bulbs and re-solder stuff
26:13SPEAKERand could pull a busted capacitor off and re-solder it,
26:17SPEAKERre-solder a new one on."
26:19SPEAKERI don't envy anybody who's, like the new,
26:22SPEAKERI feel like it's hard to know for me
26:25SPEAKER'cause I haven't spent any time with the newer machines,
26:27SPEAKERbut it seems like there are some real dark times
26:30SPEAKERin terms of maintaining those things.
26:33SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, the newer machines, fortunately,
26:35SPEAKERhave a lot of consolidation on the board side, right?
26:40SPEAKERSo it makes that part easier to maintain,
26:43SPEAKERbut you're still dealing with solenoids
26:45SPEAKERand just stuff that's supposed to push around
26:48SPEAKERthis ball bearing.
26:49SPEAKER- Huge wire harnesses and all sorts of,
26:51SPEAKERlike it's a wiring and light nightmare in there,
26:55SPEAKERit's my experience.
26:56SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, we talk about California Extreme,
26:58SPEAKERyou know, one of the things that happens
27:00SPEAKERis games break on the floor.
27:02SPEAKERAnd whenever we lift the pinball machine table up,
27:07SPEAKEReveryone brings out their phone
27:08SPEAKERbecause they can't believe how much stuff is going on
27:11SPEAKERunderneath, and you have to like trace a wire
27:14SPEAKERand find out, "Hey, where did this break?"
27:16SPEAKERand everything else.
27:17SPEAKERSo I find it fun, right?
27:19SPEAKERLike it's, I got to learn a lot about machines
27:24SPEAKERand how electronics work.
27:27SPEAKERAnd so, you know, you mentioned soldering,
27:30SPEAKERwe can maybe talk about that a little bit later,
27:32SPEAKERbut it's like, "Hey, there's like certain skills
27:34SPEAKER"that are foundational that really help you
27:37SPEAKER"kind of push yourself forward in the hobby."
27:40SPEAKER- I mean, there's a part of fixing old stuff
27:44SPEAKERthat feels like, you know, at some point in your life,
27:47SPEAKERyou decide to either for entropy or against it.
27:49SPEAKERAnd it's kind of fun to be,
27:52SPEAKERlike I personally find it very gratifying
27:54SPEAKERto be against entropy, it turns out.
27:56SPEAKERYou know, it's the one act of defiance
28:00SPEAKERwe can have in a universe that otherwise
28:04SPEAKERis grinding everybody toward chaos, right?
28:07SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm a huge advocate of things like right to repair
28:10SPEAKERand, you know, the things like places like iFixit
28:15SPEAKERthat provide those parts, but also just the communities,
28:17SPEAKERright, where you can say,
28:18SPEAKER"Hey, I don't know what's happening here."
28:21SPEAKERAnd someone will like do this, this, and this,
28:23SPEAKERand then, you know, places like YouTube and Discord servers
28:26SPEAKERand all that other, there's so many resources
28:29SPEAKERto where if you want to learn
28:30SPEAKERand if you want to bring something back,
28:33SPEAKERyou probably can at some point.
28:35SPEAKERAnd it is another way to save money, right?
28:38SPEAKERIf people are being like, "Hey, this is broken."
28:41SPEAKERAnd if you can fix it,
28:42SPEAKERthen you get something for a good deal.
28:44SPEAKER- I was working on something a few weeks ago
28:47SPEAKERand I found a Reddit thread
28:48SPEAKERabout the exact problem I was having.
28:49SPEAKERAnd then when I looked at the comments,
28:51SPEAKERthe Reddit thread told me exactly how to fix it.
28:53SPEAKERAnd when I went to the comments,
28:54SPEAKERit was like people over a 10 or 12 year period saying,
28:58SPEAKER"Hey, thanks, this fixed my problem."
29:00SPEAKERWhich is like, it's the antithesis of the,
29:05SPEAKER"Hey, I have a problem.
29:06SPEAKER"Oh, updated, don't worry, I fixed it.
29:09SPEAKER"No solution posted," right?
29:11SPEAKERLike there's two ends of that spectrum.
29:13SPEAKERAnd one is that, the, "I fixed it,
29:15SPEAKER"but I'm not gonna tell you how."
29:17SPEAKERThe other is a dozen people saying,
29:19SPEAKER"Hey, this was awesome.
29:20SPEAKER"Thank you for posting this," is the best.
29:23SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, this is the funny thing I think.
29:26SPEAKERA lot of the stuff that I collect now is pretty uncommon.
29:32SPEAKERAnd every once in a while, I'll need to do a fix
29:35SPEAKERwhere very few people have attempted it.
29:38SPEAKERAnd so when I'm doing it,
29:40SPEAKERI'm trying to document what I'm doing
29:43SPEAKERso that other people can figure that out from my experience.
29:47SPEAKERBut then you have stuff like,
29:48SPEAKERI have an Elgin pocket watch here that's a 303 move.
29:52SPEAKERYeah, 303 movement, 330, one, two.
29:55SPEAKERAnd very well-documented, right?
29:58SPEAKERI can pretty much order any part from it if I needed to.
30:02SPEAKER- So how do you find those communities
30:04SPEAKERwhen you're into the, as you get further into the niches?
30:08SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, well, very early on,
30:12SPEAKERit was things like zines and newsletters.
30:14SPEAKERAnd I think you might've even mentioned Usenet, right?
30:17SPEAKER- Yeah, Usenet was incredible back then.
30:20SPEAKER- And yeah, Usenet is where I met a lot of people,
30:23SPEAKERplaces like IRC.
30:24SPEAKERAnd nowadays you're mostly finding stuff in Discord servers.
30:29SPEAKERYouTube is actually a good resource
30:32SPEAKERfor finding people who are centers of gravity
30:36SPEAKERin those communities.
30:37SPEAKERAnd from there, like in the comments or whatever,
30:40SPEAKERyou can usually find, hey, where are other places
30:43SPEAKERwhere these people are gathering, right?
30:45SPEAKERAnd you can kind of get into whatever that scene might be.
30:49SPEAKER- It's funny 'cause in the early days of the internet,
30:52SPEAKERwhen wikis were just kind of kicking off,
30:54SPEAKERyou kind of expected that wikis were gonna end up
30:56SPEAKERholding a lot of that information.
30:58SPEAKERAnd it seems like message boards still,
31:01SPEAKERmessage boards and subreddits are,
31:03SPEAKERand occasionally at Discord,
31:05SPEAKERbut it turns out that a lot of the old guys
31:07SPEAKERare not so much into the Discord.
31:09SPEAKER- No, no.
31:09SPEAKERIn fact, one of the places that I still go
31:11SPEAKERis the killer list of video games.
31:15SPEAKERSo it's the club forums for arcade collectors
31:19SPEAKERbecause I think I have posted there from 30 years ago, right?
31:23SPEAKERAnd that is just a huge wealth of knowledge
31:25SPEAKERand that's where those people are hanging out, right?
31:28SPEAKERLike there are other places,
31:30SPEAKERbut that's where you're going to do a search
31:33SPEAKERand you're gonna find the answer that you're looking for.
31:35SPEAKERSo yeah, message boards,
31:37SPEAKERsame thing with like older hobbies, right?
31:41SPEAKERLike watch repair, electronics repair,
31:44SPEAKERa lot of that is still floating around in subreddit
31:47SPEAKERor message boards.
31:48SPEAKER- I often think about like the replica prop forum,
31:50SPEAKERwhich is a place we talked about a lot on Tested.
31:52SPEAKERYeah, RPF has always,
31:54SPEAKERit's been doing the same thing for 20 plus years now
31:57SPEAKERand like people are still in there
31:59SPEAKERand it basically, very little has changed about how it works
32:03SPEAKERexcept for it's a lot easier to get stuff manufactured now
32:05SPEAKERthan it was when they started 20 years ago.
32:08SPEAKER- Yeah, and I think the scary thing
32:12SPEAKERis that some of these sites have gone down, right?
32:17SPEAKERSo especially for Nintendo collectors,
32:19SPEAKERthere was a message board called Nintendo Age
32:22SPEAKERthat was the premier place where people would gather
32:25SPEAKERand had so much institutional knowledge
32:28SPEAKERthat just went away, right?
32:30SPEAKERAnd then there's other communities
32:33SPEAKERwhere there's no replacement generation
32:35SPEAKERof collectors or enthusiasts.
32:37SPEAKERAnd so the ones I have in here
32:38SPEAKERlike HO scale trains and dolls and Elvis collectors, right?
32:43SPEAKERThere's these things where nobody's,
32:46SPEAKEReveryone's dying basically who's into it.
32:49SPEAKERAnd what's gonna happen with that knowledge
32:51SPEAKERonce those people have faded.
32:55SPEAKERAnd so like, that's why you see train sets going super cheap
32:57SPEAKERbecause there's nobody who wants to buy them anymore.
33:00SPEAKER- Are HO scale trains the big ones or the little ones?
33:03SPEAKER- The little ones, well, little, it's kind of hard to,
33:06SPEAKERI mean, we don't have basements here in California,
33:09SPEAKERbut it's like those like sets
33:10SPEAKERwhere they're going through mountains
33:12SPEAKERand all that other stuff, yeah.
33:13SPEAKER- Okay, yeah, we had, yeah, there was,
33:18SPEAKERI used to love going to the model train store
33:20SPEAKERin downtown Bristol when I was a kid.
33:22SPEAKERIt was like, it was one of those,
33:27SPEAKERchildren of the 80s and 90s know what I'm talking about,
33:29SPEAKERbut there was always like the downtown area
33:32SPEAKERthat was the old, the walkable main street storefronts
33:36SPEAKERwith glass windows and all that.
33:38SPEAKERAnd it was all like old shoe stores and repair stores.
33:42SPEAKERAnd there was probably a haberdashery there
33:44SPEAKERand like Woolworths.
33:47SPEAKERAnd then we had a guy that had a like a craft hobby store
33:52SPEAKERthere that was mostly model trains, but he also had like,
33:55SPEAKERit's where I went to buy like plastic model airplane kits
33:57SPEAKERand stuff like that.
33:58SPEAKERAnd yeah, you don't see those anymore.
34:02SPEAKERIt's a bummer 'cause like if I had a basement,
34:04SPEAKERI would absolutely have a giant weird train set down there.
34:09SPEAKERBut yeah, the time for that I think is passed unfortunately.
34:13SPEAKER- I mean, there's still some things,
34:15SPEAKERlike I have an HO scale Arby's
34:18SPEAKERthat they released a couple years ago.
34:20SPEAKERI don't have a train set,
34:21SPEAKERbut I was like, okay, this is cool enough.
34:24SPEAKERBut yeah, it's very niche and you saying like,
34:26SPEAKERhey, I went to the model train store downtown.
34:30SPEAKERIt's like, okay, did you get ice delivery after that?
34:33SPEAKERLike some guy came with a giant block ice.
34:36SPEAKERAnd yeah, it's important that we document, right?
34:43SPEAKERWhat this experience was like,
34:45SPEAKERand that's a lot of what we're doing with VGHF
34:47SPEAKERis because it's not just about like playing with the train
34:51SPEAKERor kind of, or maybe even building a set or something.
34:56SPEAKERIt's what was the experience like for someone
34:58SPEAKERwho was an enthusiast at the time, right?
35:01SPEAKERAnd what did ads look like?
35:04SPEAKERWhat were its contemporaries?
35:05SPEAKERWhat was competing against for your attention?
35:09SPEAKERAnd so a lot of that's important to me.
35:11SPEAKER- Is there scholarly historical study of hobbies
35:16SPEAKERand the hobbies that we follow over time?
35:19SPEAKERI kind of wonder.
35:20SPEAKER- I think that there are definitely like books
35:23SPEAKERon specific hobbies, right?
35:26SPEAKERWhere people kind of go into vintage record collecting
35:32SPEAKERand the people who collect a very small subset
35:34SPEAKERwhere there's like 20 of them,
35:36SPEAKERbut they are very hardcore about it.
35:38SPEAKER- So it's funny.
35:38SPEAKERI think you think about how good the small motors
35:42SPEAKERand things like that are and the rise of 3D printers.
35:46SPEAKERAnd like, you'd think that that would combine
35:49SPEAKERto make a boom of small trains.
35:53SPEAKERYou know, people making their own custom small trains
35:56SPEAKERand stuff like that.
35:57SPEAKERBut I think maybe those two circles
35:59SPEAKERor maybe that Venn diagram is two separate circles.
36:01SPEAKER- Yeah, you know, I think that there's some people
36:04SPEAKERthat are leveraging that, right?
36:05SPEAKERFor their hobbies with miniatures and dioramas
36:08SPEAKERand all of that.
36:10SPEAKERBut it's not at the scale that it was
36:14SPEAKERwhen it was at its peak, right?
36:15SPEAKERAnd that's the same thing with like arcade.
36:18SPEAKERAlthough I would argue that like the pinball runs
36:21SPEAKERare smaller than like the peak of like Adam's family
36:23SPEAKERor something like that.
36:24SPEAKERBut you can still get it if you want to,
36:29SPEAKERI think is the answer.
36:30SPEAKER- Well, and the other thing is there's,
36:33SPEAKERlike with the pinball stuff,
36:34SPEAKERI feel like you told me this,
36:35SPEAKERbut I've had other friends who have had,
36:38SPEAKERI have a couple friends who every time I go to their house,
36:40SPEAKERthey have a different pinball machine.
36:41SPEAKERAnd it's because they get it, they play it
36:45SPEAKERuntil they feel like they've gotten as much out of it
36:47SPEAKERas they're going to.
36:48SPEAKERAnd then they trade it with somebody else
36:50SPEAKERor sell it and get in the queue for the next one.
36:53SPEAKERAnd it seems like a pretty, if you make smart choices,
37:00SPEAKERit seems like a, I don't want to say revenue neutral,
37:02SPEAKER'cause I'm sure it's not.
37:03SPEAKERBut like, it doesn't seem like a crazy expensive way
37:06SPEAKERto enjoy that if that's what you want.
37:08SPEAKER- Yeah, there's the cost of entry.
37:10SPEAKERBut once you're there, there's a lot,
37:11SPEAKERthere is a lot of trading.
37:12SPEAKERIn fact, I am going to be trading some stuff
37:14SPEAKERat California Extreme to where I'm loading it on the truck
37:17SPEAKERand I'm going to be coming back with something different.
37:19SPEAKER- Yeah. - Right?
37:20SPEAKER- Yeah. - Yeah.
37:21SPEAKER- Yeah, it's just like when I was on the playground
37:23SPEAKERand traded my copy of Top Gun, the NES game
37:27SPEAKERfor Legend of Zelda.
37:29SPEAKERAnd yeah, that was a--
37:30SPEAKER- It's a, you got a great deal.
37:32SPEAKER- It was a good trade.
37:33SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah. - It was a good trade.
37:34SPEAKER- That person's like,
37:35SPEAKER"I still can't land on the aircraft carrier.
37:36SPEAKERI don't know what's happening."
37:37SPEAKER- Hey, so I'm going to tell you,
37:38SPEAKERI loaded up Top Gun on the Mr. with the CRT a few months ago
37:41SPEAKERand I landed on the aircraft carrier like second try.
37:44SPEAKER- Wow.
37:45SPEAKER- I just was bad at video games in the '80s, I think.
37:47SPEAKER- Okay.
37:49SPEAKER- Okay, so we've talked a lot about collecting.
37:52SPEAKERI feel like that lull decline situation,
37:58SPEAKERlike when, if you're, I feel like, okay,
38:02SPEAKERso it seems like the opportunity now
38:03SPEAKERis like PS3 and Xbox 360 era games, is that right?
38:07SPEAKERLike 15, 20-year-old games?
38:08SPEAKER- Very much so.
38:09SPEAKERI mean, like 360 games, you can find giant bargain bins
38:12SPEAKERwhere games are a buck, right?
38:14SPEAKERAnd that's the thing, it's,
38:16SPEAKERa lot of collectors look at that and be like,
38:18SPEAKER"Oh, it's just 360."
38:19SPEAKERIt's like, that's what everyone thought about the NES.
38:21SPEAKERThat's what everyone thought about Super Nintendo, right?
38:23SPEAKERThat every system goes through that like,
38:25SPEAKER"Eh, I don't really care about that."
38:27SPEAKERAnd then it starts to, you know,
38:30SPEAKERI wouldn't say like every game is gonna be worth
38:32SPEAKERtons of money, but you're gonna see some increase
38:37SPEAKERin value in some of that stuff.
38:39SPEAKERAnd like right now, one of the things on the upswing
38:42SPEAKERis PS2, and that collection is so big
38:46SPEAKERthat I don't think you're gonna find many people
38:48SPEAKERthat are gonna try to get a complete set of it.
38:50SPEAKERYou know, they're gonna go after small segments of it,
38:53SPEAKERbut if you're into the 360, maybe take a look at that now
38:59SPEAKERand also learn how to fix a Red Ring system.
39:02SPEAKER- Yeah, I was gonna say the other thing about
39:03SPEAKERboth the PS3 and the 360 is that they're kind of
39:06SPEAKERticking time bombs, right?
39:08SPEAKER- Yeah, they're not great.
39:10SPEAKERPS3 is worse than, I think, 360
39:12SPEAKERbecause there's so many 360s.
39:15SPEAKERAnd I, in fact, I have a special tool that pops off that top
39:21SPEAKERbecause it's all those little clips
39:23SPEAKERbecause I fixed like Red Ring systems.
39:26SPEAKER- On the-- - On the 360.
39:28SPEAKER- Oh, you have the, oh, the thing that you wedge
39:30SPEAKERinto the cracker?
39:32SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, into like the, it's like the vents at the top.
39:35SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And you just kind of
39:36SPEAKERshove that in and then it just pops off the top
39:38SPEAKERbecause it pushes all the pins in at the same time.
39:41SPEAKER- That's awesome.
39:42SPEAKERThat's really fun.
39:44SPEAKERYeah, so, okay, so 360 PS3 are the kind of place
39:48SPEAKERto be right now, that makes a ton of sense.
39:50SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, yeah, and I would, you know,
39:54SPEAKERcollecting complete sets is not really
39:55SPEAKERas satisfying as you would think.
39:57SPEAKERYou know, you mentioned I finished all of these sets
40:00SPEAKERand it's kinda anti-climactic, quite frankly,
40:02SPEAKERfor a lot of getting the last game.
40:04SPEAKERAnd so I would, you know, nowadays I usually let people know
40:09SPEAKERit's like find something that you're really into,
40:12SPEAKERthat you're interested in personally,
40:14SPEAKERand finding, you know, subsets, right, of that
40:18SPEAKERor something across platform rather than necessarily
40:21SPEAKERfocusing on a single platform.
40:22SPEAKER- That makes a ton of sense.
40:25SPEAKERWhen you're walking around and doing, like,
40:26SPEAKERlooking at VCF or Calxtreme or the flea market,
40:29SPEAKERhow do you kind of evaluate, like,
40:32SPEAKERdo you just have a mental model in your head
40:33SPEAKERof what everything should cost at different places,
40:36SPEAKERor do you have references, like, there's no,
40:40SPEAKERI wanna say, what is it, Fodor's Guide to Antiques
40:42SPEAKERwas a thing that my mom always kept in her glove compartment
40:44SPEAKERbecause we would be driving through the country
40:47SPEAKERand she would see a junk shop on the side of the road
40:49SPEAKERand she'd be like, oh, wow, this is a, you know,
40:51SPEAKERthis looks like a handmade bureau from, you know,
40:55SPEAKERlike, post-colonial pre-Civil War timeframe,
40:58SPEAKERand then she'd look at it and flip through the thing
41:00SPEAKERand be like, okay, this is a good deal
41:01SPEAKERor this isn't a good deal.
41:03SPEAKERAnd it feels like for this kind of stuff,
41:05SPEAKERthe newer stuff, there's not kind of,
41:08SPEAKERit's not as calcified pricing.
41:11SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, my ability to gauge pricing
41:15SPEAKERis much worse since I stopped buying things, right?
41:19SPEAKERAnd so I haven't, it's important to at least have an idea
41:24SPEAKERof how much something should cost, right,
41:26SPEAKERand sort of the approximate range.
41:29SPEAKERThere are online resources, like,
41:30SPEAKERprice charting is really good for video games,
41:33SPEAKERyou know, eBay-completed auctions,
41:36SPEAKERbut you're not gonna sit there and flip through a giant pile
41:39SPEAKERand, like, check every one, and so, actually--
41:43SPEAKER- Well, if you do, then they're gonna not take you seriously
41:45SPEAKERand you're gonna get reamed, yeah.
41:47SPEAKER- Exactly, I mean, you and I have a mutual friend,
41:49SPEAKERChris Kohler, he just has this price guide in his head,
41:53SPEAKERand he can, like, just take a look at a table
41:56SPEAKERand know exactly what's valuable out of that group
41:58SPEAKERand just sort of pick it out.
42:00SPEAKERAnd so if you're a serious bargain hunter,
42:02SPEAKERand especially if you're hitting, like,
42:03SPEAKERthe flea market early or, you know,
42:06SPEAKERyou're the first person in the door at a show,
42:10SPEAKERyou're gonna have to have that sort of ability
42:14SPEAKERto gauge how much something should cost.
42:15SPEAKERBut now, you know, if you're just sort of casually looking,
42:20SPEAKERit's like, hey, is this a reasonable price?
42:22SPEAKERCool, you know, I'll pay it.
42:25SPEAKER- Like, what I'm buying is I don't have that price model.
42:28SPEAKERI have no idea what anything should cost ever.
42:30SPEAKERI'm always asking you or one of the other people there.
42:33SPEAKERBut for me, it's like, is this,
42:36SPEAKERI'm just looking for personal gratification
42:38SPEAKERwhen I buy old stuff at this point.
42:40SPEAKERAnd that's a much easier, that's a much easier calculus
42:43SPEAKERbecause I'm not, you know, I'm not,
42:46SPEAKERif I buy something at the flea market,
42:48SPEAKERit's not because I'm gonna come back
42:49SPEAKERand sell it at VCF in six months.
42:50SPEAKERIt's because I wanna have it in my office
42:52SPEAKERor in my house someplace.
42:53SPEAKERAnd that makes it an easier decision for me, I think.
42:56SPEAKER- Yeah, and one of the things that I see people,
42:59SPEAKERit's like, oh, you know, I'm probably overpaid for that.
43:01SPEAKERIt's like, well, someone named a price
43:02SPEAKERand you thought it was reasonable.
43:04SPEAKERSo I don't know why you should feel bad about that.
43:07SPEAKERI know you bought that CRT
43:10SPEAKERand I was like, that's a really good deal.
43:11SPEAKERYou should definitely buy that, right?
43:13SPEAKER- Yeah, look, the things I feel about now,
43:16SPEAKERbad about now are the things that I got rid of,
43:19SPEAKERlike the 24 inch Sony monitor with a flat glass monitor.
43:26SPEAKERTo be clear, it was a pain in the ass
43:28SPEAKERand would have caused me back problems moving it
43:30SPEAKERbetween now and the time that I got rid of it.
43:33SPEAKERBut also, damn.
43:36SPEAKERAnyway, what do you, is there stuff that people should know
43:40SPEAKERwhen they're buying stuff if they're going to flea markets
43:43SPEAKERto go to thrift stores and stuff like that?
43:45SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, get a sense of what you're signing up for
43:49SPEAKERfrom a maintenance perspective, right?
43:51SPEAKERLike I said, with a pinball machine,
43:53SPEAKERyou're going to have to do maintenance on it.
43:55SPEAKERIt's not going to take care of itself.
43:57SPEAKERI always tell people open up the battery compartment
44:00SPEAKERbecause that's the treasure trove of calcified battery acid
44:05SPEAKERthat it always shows up.
44:06SPEAKER- I mean, and that stuff's recoverable sometimes, right?
44:09SPEAKERLike I've cleaned off corroded batteries enough,
44:13SPEAKERbut I feel like it always is going to haunt you
44:15SPEAKERat that point once it's happened, right?
44:17SPEAKER- I would say, yeah, most of the time
44:19SPEAKERyou can get it cleaned up.
44:20SPEAKERIt depends on how far it's gone into the rest of the board.
44:25SPEAKERSo there's, especially in the pinball world,
44:28SPEAKERthere's the Williams games use AA batteries
44:33SPEAKERfor saving settings and high scores and everything.
44:36SPEAKERAnd it's right on top of a bunch
44:38SPEAKERof other important circuitry.
44:40SPEAKERAnd of course it leaks and it just eats you off that, right?
44:43SPEAKERAnd so I definitely run into portable game systems,
44:47SPEAKERparticularly like Game Boys and things like that,
44:49SPEAKERwhere it's done a lot of damage.
44:52SPEAKERAnd so, yeah, you could probably fix it,
44:56SPEAKERbut is it worth it?
44:58SPEAKEREspecially if you don't have the skills to repair.
45:01SPEAKERAnd then yeah, from a maintenance perspective
45:03SPEAKERand even just like what are you going to do
45:06SPEAKERwith this perspective, right?
45:08SPEAKERLike the Commodore PET is cool.
45:11SPEAKERLike I love how the way it looks,
45:13SPEAKERbut it's not very powerful and it's very big and very heavy.
45:17SPEAKERAnd the way I describe it is like,
45:19SPEAKERI was basically lugging around a boat anchor
45:22SPEAKERfor the past 20 years.
45:24SPEAKERAnd this was the time that I can gift that boat anchor
45:27SPEAKERto somebody else.
45:29SPEAKER- Yeah, well, look, at least you didn't need three people
45:32SPEAKERto load it in the back of a pickup truck.
45:33SPEAKER- Correct, right, right, right, yeah.
45:37SPEAKER- Always open the battery compartment
45:39SPEAKERis a super, super good tip though.
45:41SPEAKERAnd the corollary to that is when you're putting something
45:43SPEAKERin your garage, always take the batteries out, please.
45:46SPEAKER- Yes, yeah, take the batteries out.
45:49SPEAKERIf you're putting something in your garage,
45:52SPEAKERmaybe don't have it sitting on the floor, right?
45:55SPEAKERBecause things can leak.
45:57SPEAKER- Garages leak, it turns out.
45:59SPEAKER- Yeah, garages leak.
46:01SPEAKERThings like to crawl into things.
46:03SPEAKERI have opened up many arcade games
46:06SPEAKERthat have either remnants or actual remains
46:10SPEAKERof animals that have decided to, you know.
46:14SPEAKER- Mice make bad choices, man.
46:15SPEAKER- They do, they do.
46:16SPEAKERThere's like popsicle sticks and all kinds of other stuff.
46:18SPEAKERIt's like, how did that get in there?
46:20SPEAKERSo, yeah.
46:22SPEAKER- Do you still enjoy this stuff
46:24SPEAKERafter being in the scene for so long?
46:26SPEAKERIt's a personal question, sorry.
46:27SPEAKERI should have warned you there.
46:29SPEAKER- I mean, I personally enjoy that things exist,
46:33SPEAKERI think is the best way that I describe it.
46:35SPEAKERFrom a physical perspective,
46:38SPEAKERthrough things like the flea market,
46:39SPEAKERI've been gifting a lot of just duplicate,
46:43SPEAKERtriplicate, quadruple systems that I have here.
46:46SPEAKERAnd it's making other people happy, right?
46:48SPEAKER'Cause it's like, oh my gosh,
46:49SPEAKERit's a GameCube or NES or whatever.
46:53SPEAKERAnd nowadays when I see something,
46:56SPEAKERI can say, hey, that's really cool.
46:58SPEAKERLike, that project's awesome.
47:00SPEAKEROr, hey, I have not seen that version of a Mac
47:04SPEAKERin a really long time.
47:06SPEAKERAnd I don't feel a compulsion to own it.
47:09SPEAKERIt's more just like, oh, the experience is seeing it, right?
47:14SPEAKERAnd for me, like I said,
47:17SPEAKERmost of my collection is being donated
47:20SPEAKERto different museum projects.
47:23SPEAKERAnd I'm keeping just like sort of a handful of things.
47:26SPEAKERIt doesn't mean I don't buy anything at all, right?
47:29SPEAKERLike, I bought this work slate,
47:32SPEAKERwhich is this computer from 1982.
47:35SPEAKER- Good signal.
47:35SPEAKER- It's, yeah, I love the aesthetic.
47:38SPEAKERAnd it was like, I like that this exists.
47:40SPEAKERIt's not very big.
47:42SPEAKERAnd it was inexpensive, right?
47:43SPEAKERAnd so that is something I will keep.
47:46SPEAKERBut I'm not like going to shows
47:48SPEAKERand buying like armful games anymore.
47:52SPEAKER- You're Marie Kondo-ing.
47:54SPEAKERYou're finding your joy there.
47:55SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, it's like finding joy.
47:57SPEAKERAnd you mentioned people like texting you and being like,
48:02SPEAKERhey, this person's giving away arcade machine.
48:04SPEAKERIt's understanding what other people are looking for.
48:07SPEAKERAnd so in some cases,
48:09SPEAKERI will be on the hunt for something for somebody else.
48:13SPEAKERAnd it's like, hey, I'm looking for this.
48:14SPEAKERI'm looking for a good copy
48:16SPEAKERor one that I don't need to worry about too much.
48:20SPEAKERAnd I'll just have that database in my head.
48:22SPEAKERAnd so when I'm looking,
48:23SPEAKERit's like I'm not really looking for myself.
48:25SPEAKERI'm looking for other folks
48:28SPEAKERwho may not be at the show or whatever.
48:30SPEAKER- Personal shopping for all your friends
48:32SPEAKERfor their nerd business.
48:33SPEAKERThat's a fun place to be.
48:36SPEAKERWe appreciate you for that also, Steve.
48:38SPEAKER- Oh yeah, yeah.
48:39SPEAKERIt's like, let me keep adding to your pile, not mine.
48:42SPEAKER- Like fill my garage up,
48:43SPEAKERmake my wife a little bit more annoyed with me.
48:45SPEAKER- You know, I don't think I've given you stuff
48:49SPEAKERthat's too big.
48:51SPEAKER- What I will tell you is the copy of "Run Yourself Ragged,"
48:56SPEAKERwhich you gave us a couple of weeks ago
48:58SPEAKERwhen I like reacted.
49:00SPEAKERYou posted a picture with it in there in our group chat.
49:04SPEAKERAnd I went ham and then immediately I was like,
49:07SPEAKER"Oh my God, this is so cool."
49:08SPEAKERAnd my wife was like, "What are you talking about?"
49:10SPEAKERI was like, "Steve has a copy of 'Run Yourself Ragged.'"
49:13SPEAKERAnd she's like, "Wait, what?"
49:14SPEAKERAnd I was like, she was like,
49:15SPEAKER"Wait, you had a copy of 'Run Yourself Ragged?'"
49:17SPEAKERAnd then we both, I think,
49:19SPEAKERwent down the "Run Yourself Ragged" hole.
49:21SPEAKERFor folks who don't know,
49:22SPEAKER"Run Yourself Ragged" is a '70s era plastic toy
49:26SPEAKERfrom the Tomy Corporation, I think.
49:28SPEAKERI'm looking at the box right over there.
49:30SPEAKERBut it was like an obstacle course.
49:32SPEAKERIt was a maze that you ran a ball bearing through,
49:34SPEAKERa big ball bearing through.
49:37SPEAKERAnd it turns out it was a cultural touchstone
49:40SPEAKERfor people our age at a really high level.
49:44SPEAKERSo it's been sitting on the dining room
49:46SPEAKERfor the last three weeks.
49:47SPEAKERAnd every time somebody walks by, we play.
49:49SPEAKERWe've started using the timer.
49:51SPEAKERThere's a race.
49:52SPEAKERI have not put the dry erase board next to it yet
49:54SPEAKERto mark the times
49:55SPEAKERbecause I don't wanna start a war in the house.
49:58SPEAKERBut it is extremely competitive, the raggeding.
50:02SPEAKER- Well, you're gonna have to now start using sensors
50:05SPEAKERand an Arduino or something
50:06SPEAKERto actually do precise timing on runs.
50:10SPEAKERAnd so you can just do that.
50:11SPEAKERYeah, you mentioned it's sort of like a maze.
50:14SPEAKERIt's sort of like a Rube Goldberg device
50:17SPEAKERand you control different things to tilt the thing in.
50:20SPEAKERBut yeah, that's the thing that's made me really happy,
50:25SPEAKERright, is like I love "Run Yourself Ragged."
50:28SPEAKERAnd I know how happy it made me when I first found it again.
50:32SPEAKERAnd now I can sort of share that with other folks.
50:35SPEAKERAnd so I've been doing that a lot.
50:37SPEAKER- And we'll pass it on when the competition dies down,
50:42SPEAKERwe'll find somebody else who's excited
50:44SPEAKERabout "Run Yourself Ragged" and pass the love back on.
50:47SPEAKER- Yeah, and then 20 years from now,
50:48SPEAKERyour daughter's gonna buy another one.
50:50SPEAKER(laughing)
50:51SPEAKER- Do you remember?
50:53SPEAKER- I found out they still make them and also there's a sequel.
50:56SPEAKERSo I kinda wanna buy the sequel
50:57SPEAKER'cause you can hook the second one up.
51:00SPEAKERAnd I think the second one you can make end
51:04SPEAKERat the start of the first one.
51:05SPEAKERSo, yeah, anyway.
51:07SPEAKER- I would like to see that.
51:08SPEAKERYou showed that to me and I was like,
51:09SPEAKERthat is a really clever way of extending something.
51:12SPEAKER- Yeah, it's wild and also we'll make the fights
51:15SPEAKEReven bigger in the house.
51:16SPEAKER- Of course.
51:17SPEAKER- So okay, before we go, we've talked for a long time.
51:20SPEAKER- Oh, have we?
51:22SPEAKER- I mean, you know, it's an appropriate amount of time,
51:25SPEAKERI think, for the topic, it's a big topic.
51:28SPEAKERI wanna talk about your, 'cause you,
51:30SPEAKERthe other thing about you
51:31SPEAKERthat I think people maybe don't know is that you are,
51:35SPEAKERAdam calls him an autodidact.
51:39SPEAKERYou know, you collect skills, it seems like,
51:43SPEAKERin a way that I deeply appreciate
51:45SPEAKERand I also enjoy doing, right?
51:47SPEAKERLike, I think you probably go a little deeper
51:49SPEAKERon mastery stuff than I do often,
51:51SPEAKERbut when you're sitting down and you're,
51:55SPEAKERa lot of the collection stuff is maintaining
51:56SPEAKERand repairing and fixing and restoring
51:59SPEAKERand I'm kinda curious what your approach is
52:01SPEAKERwhen you start out to, when you're like,
52:04SPEAKERoh, I got this thing,
52:05SPEAKERI gotta figure out how to make this right
52:07SPEAKERand then like, where do you start?
52:08SPEAKERWhere do you kick off?
52:09SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, it all starts
52:12SPEAKERfrom wanting to know the answer, right, for being curious
52:17SPEAKERand the way I kinda think about my childhood
52:20SPEAKERis one of my favorite toys was a Phillips screwdriver
52:24SPEAKERbecause I would take apart my toys, right?
52:27SPEAKERAnd it's like, what's going on in here?
52:29SPEAKERLike, how is it making this noise?
52:30SPEAKERAnd then sometimes the toy would go back together
52:34SPEAKERand other times it wouldn't
52:35SPEAKERand it's that problem solving of, okay,
52:40SPEAKERit's like puzzles, right?
52:42SPEAKERThis thing is an apart and now I gotta figure it out.
52:45SPEAKERWhen approaching things nowadays,
52:47SPEAKERa lot of it is kinda looking it up
52:49SPEAKERand seeing how someone else does it, right?
52:52SPEAKERAnd then judging, hey, am I gonna be able to do that, right?
52:56SPEAKERWhat tools do I need?
52:57SPEAKERAnd there's some folks who see
53:01SPEAKERthey have the best version of a tool.
53:03SPEAKERIt's like all the bits and bobs
53:06SPEAKERor like millions of tiny screwdrivers
53:08SPEAKERif you're a watch repair person
53:10SPEAKERand these very specialized tools.
53:12SPEAKERAnd I usually tell people, if you're just getting started,
53:16SPEAKERjust get sort of the basics, right?
53:18SPEAKERLike in an expensive version,
53:20SPEAKERbecause you might not like the hobby
53:23SPEAKERand that's an expensive mistake.
53:27SPEAKER- I call that one the harbor freight rule.
53:29SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
53:30SPEAKER- If you want a new tool, you buy the harbor freight version
53:32SPEAKERand when you use it enough that it burns out,
53:33SPEAKER'cause it doesn't take long with harbor freight tools,
53:35SPEAKERusually, then you buy the good one.
53:37SPEAKERBut if you don't burn it out,
53:38SPEAKERthat means you shouldn't just clean that out of the garage
53:40SPEAKERif it's still working in two years.
53:42SPEAKER- Yeah, and it's having an awareness
53:43SPEAKERof what tools are even available, right?
53:46SPEAKERAnd how that's going to change things.
53:49SPEAKERYou know, in terms of like learning skills,
53:52SPEAKERit's a lot of practice and unfortunately,
53:55SPEAKERit's a lot of making mistakes, right?
53:58SPEAKERLike I have a bin where, you know,
54:02SPEAKERthat I've, it's not the same bin,
54:04SPEAKERbut it's sort of been a bin that's always been in my life
54:07SPEAKERthat is dead electronics, right?
54:09SPEAKERAnd it's because I wasn't able to repair it
54:11SPEAKERor I messed it up, right?
54:13SPEAKERAnd it's learning from each of those mistakes
54:16SPEAKERand yeah, it's learning like fundamental skills.
54:19SPEAKERYou mentioned soldering.
54:21SPEAKERThat's one that I hear a lot of people say like,
54:24SPEAKER"Oh, I wish I could solder."
54:26SPEAKERAnd what I tell people is that it's not really that hard.
54:29SPEAKER- It's literally, they used to do a, at Maker Faire,
54:32SPEAKERthey did a tent with a hundred stations in it
54:35SPEAKERwhere you paid 10 bucks and they gave you a thing
54:38SPEAKERand people walked around and taught eight-year-olds
54:40SPEAKERhow to solder.
54:41SPEAKERIt is really easy to do.
54:42SPEAKERI love, yeah, I love that booth.
54:44SPEAKERIn fact, I think that was the one where Google
54:46SPEAKERhad all the safety glasses.
54:50SPEAKERDo you remember that story?
54:51SPEAKER- Yeah, Cristobona always ran through the open source group,
54:57SPEAKERpaid for that booth for years and years and years.
55:00SPEAKERAnd I have a million pairs of those glasses here
55:04SPEAKERbecause they just get,
55:05SPEAKERthey handed out a bazillion pairs of safety glasses.
55:07SPEAKER- Yeah, my favorite story from there
55:08SPEAKERwas there was a shop teacher who was saying like,
55:11SPEAKER"Oh, can I take a couple of these pairs
55:13SPEAKER"for my shop at school?"
55:15SPEAKERAnd they gave him an entire box of them.
55:17SPEAKER- Oh yeah, oh yeah.
55:18SPEAKER- He's like, "You just take these, right?"
55:20SPEAKERAnd I mean, I taught my partner how to solder.
55:22SPEAKERI bought this little electronics dice kit
55:26SPEAKERthat has different types of components
55:28SPEAKERand we just walked through it.
55:31SPEAKERAnd I recommend getting a fume extractor for folks.
55:35SPEAKERIt's like a small basically fan with a charcoal filter on it
55:38SPEAKERso you're not huffing the field.
55:40SPEAKER- Look, a little resin fume's fine.
55:42SPEAKERIt's not gonna hurt you.
55:44SPEAKER- But yeah, I mean, it might sound intimidating,
55:48SPEAKERbut nowadays getting an inexpensive soldering iron
55:53SPEAKERthat has good temperature control
55:55SPEAKERis so much cheaper than it was back in the day, right?
55:58SPEAKER- You can get a pine sill for like $26 on Amazon, right?
56:02SPEAKERAnd you plug it into a USB port on a battery backup
56:05SPEAKERor on a wall wart and it is the easiest thing in the world.
56:09SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
56:10SPEAKERSo I would say that the best time to start is now, right?
56:14SPEAKERAnd just pick up one of these kits.
56:15SPEAKERYou might mess it up.
56:16SPEAKERIf you have an old PCB, just practice taking things off
56:21SPEAKERand putting it back on, right?
56:23SPEAKERAnd from there you're going to start learning,
56:26SPEAKERokay, what's the right temperature?
56:27SPEAKERHow long do I hold it?
56:28SPEAKERHow do I use the solder?
56:29SPEAKERAll that other stuff.
56:30SPEAKER- Learning how to re-solder RAM, it turns out,
56:32SPEAKERis a real marketable skill today.
56:34SPEAKER- Yeah. (laughs)
56:35SPEAKERWe're gonna be harvesting chips off of things.
56:38SPEAKERWe're all around a barrel that's on fire or something.
56:42SPEAKERI would say the other thing that's really important
56:45SPEAKERis having patience.
56:47SPEAKERI think that people want to be really good really fast.
56:52SPEAKEROr it's like, hey, I just want to have this thing done.
56:55SPEAKERAnd that's when I've made the biggest mistakes, right?
56:59SPEAKEROr the most mistakes.
57:00SPEAKERAnd it's just saying like, hey, you know what?
57:02SPEAKERI have to take this slow.
57:05SPEAKERAnd if something is really intimidating or I'm afraid,
57:08SPEAKERthen you can back off, right?
57:11SPEAKERAnd say like, okay, I want to work on something else
57:14SPEAKERas I develop whatever that new skill I need to develop.
57:19SPEAKERAnd in fact, I talked about this with Brad yesterday.
57:22SPEAKERIt's like, sometimes you need to have
57:24SPEAKERsort of the sacrificial lamb.
57:26SPEAKERIt's like, here's the version that I am probably
57:29SPEAKERgoing to mess up before I actually work on the thing
57:33SPEAKERthat is really important either materially
57:36SPEAKERor sentimentally to me.
57:39SPEAKER- That is like, yeah, look.
57:43SPEAKERIt's nice to learn stuff on the lowest possible stakes.
57:47SPEAKERDon't take your childhood computer and take that apart
57:50SPEAKERto fix the corroded caps and you're gonna have a bad,
57:53SPEAKERactually, it's not that hard to fix.
57:55SPEAKERBut it's still, you're gonna have a bad time.
57:57SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, for watches, right?
58:00SPEAKERI get like pocket watches for 20 bucks at the flea market
58:04SPEAKERor something and it's like, okay, if I mess this up,
58:06SPEAKERthis entire movement is only worth like $20, right?
58:09SPEAKERAnd it's learning that stuff before,
58:12SPEAKERI had a friend who's like, hey, can you fix my watch?
58:15SPEAKERI'm like, oh, I'll give it a try, right?
58:18SPEAKERBut I had built up enough confidence
58:21SPEAKERin working on those others and fortunately,
58:24SPEAKERit turned out to be a relatively easy fix.
58:28SPEAKERBut it was because I had learned on something
58:31SPEAKERwhere the stakes were much lower.
58:34SPEAKER- See, my grandfather was an attorney
58:36SPEAKERbut his dad was a watch repair guy in New York
58:40SPEAKERand he would do watch repair.
58:43SPEAKERIt was his hobby, basically, one of,
58:45SPEAKERhe played pool and he fixed watches.
58:47SPEAKERThose were the things he liked to do.
58:49SPEAKER- Nice.
58:50SPEAKER- And when he passed, there was a bin of,
58:54SPEAKERhe wasn't organized was the problem.
58:56SPEAKERThis is why it was not a watch.
58:57SPEAKERThis is why his dad was like, you have to go do something
58:58SPEAKERthat's not watch repair, you can't do this.
59:00SPEAKERYou can't work in the shop 'cause you'll make me crazy.
59:03SPEAKERThere was a bin of parts and my mom had to recreate
59:07SPEAKERwhich movements went with which watches and stuff like that
59:09SPEAKER'cause he would do the same thing.
59:11SPEAKERHe'd go to the flea market and buy a $10 watch
59:13SPEAKERbut he'd also go to the estate sale
59:15SPEAKERand buy a $10,000 Patek Philippe watch
59:18SPEAKERand she had to figure out which ones were which.
59:21SPEAKER- Wow.
59:21SPEAKER- And it was, don't do that.
59:24SPEAKERDon't do that to your kids is my advice.
59:27SPEAKER- No, and actually this is going all the way back
59:29SPEAKERto what we were talking about at the beginning
59:30SPEAKERwith collecting, it's document, right?
59:34SPEAKERWhat do you have and let your loved ones know
59:38SPEAKERwhat are the things that are like the $10,000 Patek, right?
59:42SPEAKERBecause you never know what's gonna happen
59:45SPEAKERand that is one of the reasons
59:47SPEAKERthat I'm actually getting rid of a lot of stuff
59:50SPEAKERis just I don't wanna have to have my loved ones
59:53SPEAKERdeal with all of that, right?
59:55SPEAKERYou're gonna have to come in here and be like,
59:56SPEAKERokay, here's like a stack of motherboards.
59:58SPEAKERI don't want that to happen.
1:00:01SPEAKERAnd so it is sort of doing something
1:00:05SPEAKERfor the next generation, right?
1:00:08SPEAKEROr the people who have to dig through it, right?
1:00:11SPEAKER- Yeah, so when you're soldering,
1:00:13SPEAKERthe fume extractor is a good call.
1:00:14SPEAKERYou can also put a fan in a window
1:00:15SPEAKERand sit next to the fan in the window.
1:00:16SPEAKERThat's totally fair game.
1:00:17SPEAKER- Yep.
1:00:19SPEAKER- What others do you use?
1:00:21SPEAKERDo you have the normal sponge and like the,
1:00:25SPEAKERI don't know what it's called,
1:00:26SPEAKERlike it's like the steel wool.
1:00:28SPEAKER- Yeah, so I've got that.
1:00:30SPEAKERI would say this is not,
1:00:32SPEAKERdon't buy this right when you're starting,
1:00:34SPEAKERbut I have a de-soldering gun
1:00:37SPEAKERthat has basically a vacuum pump on it.
1:00:40SPEAKERSo if you're trying to take something off,
1:00:42SPEAKERthat was a game changer for me for recapping monitors.
1:00:46SPEAKER- Like a reflow station or?
1:00:48SPEAKER- So I'm not doing reflow,
1:00:49SPEAKERbut it's more just like when I have to remove a lot of caps
1:00:54SPEAKERrather than using the wick
1:00:56SPEAKERand sort of suck off that. - Yeah, the wick sucks.
1:00:58SPEAKER- Yeah, this is just like,
1:01:00SPEAKERand then pin connectors, things like that.
1:01:03SPEAKERIt's like, well, I've got 80 solder ports here.
1:01:05SPEAKERI can get through this very quickly.
1:01:08SPEAKERSo if you realize, hey, this is something
1:01:09SPEAKERI'm gonna be doing on a more frequent basis.
1:01:12SPEAKERIt's expensive, right?
1:01:13SPEAKERIt's like a $250 tool,
1:01:15SPEAKERbut that's where you start,
1:01:18SPEAKERto your harbor freight rule, right?
1:01:19SPEAKERWhere you start seeing like, okay,
1:01:21SPEAKERthis will make my life significantly easier.
1:01:26SPEAKERI'm gonna make that investment in that tool.
1:01:32SPEAKER- The other thing,
1:01:33SPEAKERsometimes the hard part is knowing that the tool exists.
1:01:36SPEAKERSo when we were talking at one point about,
1:01:40SPEAKERI think it was when I was learning
1:01:41SPEAKERhow to do SMT soldering at Tested a long time ago,
1:01:44SPEAKERI watched a video on YouTube that was like,
1:01:46SPEAKERhey, you can just go buy a hot plate
1:01:48SPEAKERand put the paste down
1:01:49SPEAKERand then put the components in the paste
1:01:50SPEAKERand then turn the hot plate on.
1:01:52SPEAKERAnd when the solder melts,
1:01:53SPEAKERtake the thing off real quick.
1:01:55SPEAKERAnd I was like, okay, this seems a little wobbly,
1:01:57SPEAKERbut let's, well, it was just a,
1:01:59SPEAKERI wanna say that was for a,
1:02:01SPEAKERit was something that wasn't particularly delicate,
1:02:03SPEAKERlike a heated build plate for a 3D printer
1:02:05SPEAKERor something like that.
1:02:07SPEAKERAnd I did it and I was like, oh, this is easy.
1:02:08SPEAKERAnd then we posted the video
1:02:09SPEAKERand like 300 people were like,
1:02:10SPEAKERhey man, there's 50 million better ways to do this.
1:02:13SPEAKERYou can do a toaster oven
1:02:14SPEAKERthat you just don't use for food ever again.
1:02:17SPEAKEROr there's a thing you can buy that does,
1:02:19SPEAKERand there's always a better tool is the TLDR, I think.
1:02:22SPEAKERYou just gotta know what it is
1:02:23SPEAKERand what it's called and where to find it.
1:02:26SPEAKER- I mean, you mentioned the toaster oven.
1:02:28SPEAKERThat was one of those things that was shocking to me.
1:02:32SPEAKERI was at a friend's house
1:02:35SPEAKERwho does a lot of NES prototype stuff
1:02:38SPEAKERand they were like, oh, I have to get this chip off.
1:02:41SPEAKERHe just threw it into this toaster oven
1:02:42SPEAKERthat was sitting on his desk.
1:02:44SPEAKERAnd like, what are you doing, man?
1:02:46SPEAKERAnd he's like, this is how I get the chip off, right?
1:02:48SPEAKERAnd it just, yeah, there's stuff
1:02:50SPEAKERthat's more durable than you would think,
1:02:53SPEAKERbut also it's just knowing what settings
1:02:56SPEAKERand how to use the tool, right?
1:02:58SPEAKERI think it's a big thing.
1:03:00SPEAKER- It's funny, in the early days of Arduino stuff,
1:03:04SPEAKERpeople, like I know you saw the old espresso machine mods
1:03:07SPEAKERwhere you'd buy like a Rancilio Silvia,
1:03:09SPEAKERwhich is a famously analog espresso machine
1:03:14SPEAKERwith a kind of fiddly temperature sensor.
1:03:16SPEAKERAnd it had trouble holding temperature
1:03:19SPEAKERand people would take out the analog temperature sensor
1:03:21SPEAKERand put an Arduino and a thermistor
1:03:24SPEAKERand a PWM the heat on and off
1:03:27SPEAKERso it holds the temperature exactly what you want.
1:03:29SPEAKERAnd it was a super cool hack.
1:03:31SPEAKERThe soldering people did that for toaster ovens
1:03:33SPEAKERand for hot plates and for everything else as well.
1:03:36SPEAKERSo you could control your,
1:03:38SPEAKERyou could go to Walgreens, buy a hot plate or a toaster oven,
1:03:41SPEAKERjam your Arduino and the thermistor
1:03:42SPEAKERand the Arduino in there
1:03:45SPEAKERand wire it into the controls for the toaster
1:03:47SPEAKERand have the same exact effect as your fancy reflow oven.
1:03:51SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, this goes back
1:03:53SPEAKERto the community participation, right?
1:03:55SPEAKERAnd this is where people post like,
1:03:57SPEAKER"Hey, here's a new project."
1:03:59SPEAKERLike there's a person who is gonna have a project
1:04:02SPEAKERwhere it turns the Game Boy and Game Boy camera
1:04:06SPEAKERinto like a Rico body.
1:04:09SPEAKERAnd that's really cool, right?
1:04:11SPEAKERThat's a cool project.
1:04:12SPEAKERAnd it's finding the people who are doing that type of thing
1:04:16SPEAKERand saying like, "Hey, this is something
1:04:17SPEAKER"that I could take on."
1:04:18SPEAKERAnd if not, build up to it, right?
1:04:21SPEAKER- When do you, 'cause the problem
1:04:26SPEAKERwith a lot of these hobbies is you can reach,
1:04:28SPEAKERyou could spend a lifetime learning, right?
1:04:30SPEAKERLike if you wanna get good at fixing watches
1:04:33SPEAKERand you wanna learn about every movement made
1:04:34SPEAKERin the last 100 years, that is a work of a lifetime.
1:04:38SPEAKERThat is not an idle task.
1:04:41SPEAKERHow do you know when you've reached the end point?
1:04:44SPEAKER- Well, I would say that one of the main things
1:04:47SPEAKERI look for is when I stop having fun doing it.
1:04:51SPEAKERAnd every project is gonna have something that is not fun.
1:04:55SPEAKERAnd so that's maybe my caveat is like,
1:04:58SPEAKER"Oh, I don't like this anymore, I'm gonna stop."
1:05:00SPEAKERIt's like, "Oh, maybe you gotta get through the hump," right?
1:05:02SPEAKERAnd there's the satisfaction of getting it done.
1:05:06SPEAKERI would also say like price, right?
1:05:08SPEAKERWhen things get too expensive.
1:05:10SPEAKERIt's like, am I gonna buy this tool
1:05:12SPEAKERthat's hundreds of dollars?
1:05:14SPEAKERAnd is it gonna really make my hobby
1:05:18SPEAKERthat much more exciting?
1:05:20SPEAKER- Is it a one-use tool or can I,
1:05:22SPEAKERis it like a reflow station makes sense?
1:05:23SPEAKERBut like, 'cause you can use that for 15 other things too,
1:05:27SPEAKERbut yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
1:05:28SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, they're like,
1:05:30SPEAKERespecially in the watch repair world,
1:05:31SPEAKERit's like, this is something that is specifically designed
1:05:34SPEAKERfor like this type of Rolex bezel.
1:05:37SPEAKERIt's like, yeah, I'm not gonna, I don't need that, right?
1:05:40SPEAKERAnd it's finding time, like I said, to pause projects, right?
1:05:47SPEAKERSo I've seen people burn themselves out
1:05:50SPEAKERbecause they're like, "Oh, I'm a Game Boy modder now," right?
1:05:53SPEAKERAnd so I'm just gonna be modding Game Boys
1:05:54SPEAKERand it gets repetitive, right?
1:05:57SPEAKERAnd so it's like, don't make that the only thing you do, right?
1:06:02SPEAKERAnd it's why I actually use a speed rack system,
1:06:06SPEAKERwhich is that thing you see in kitchens
1:06:08SPEAKERthat hold different cookie sheets or baking sheets,
1:06:11SPEAKERand I have different projects on different sheets.
1:06:13SPEAKER- Oh, that's smart. - And so I just like,
1:06:15SPEAKERyeah, and I've got like a rubber mat on each one of them.
1:06:18SPEAKERAnd so it's like, all right, I'm gonna put this,
1:06:20SPEAKERI'm gonna hit pause on this project.
1:06:22SPEAKERI'm gonna stick it into the rack
1:06:24SPEAKERand then pull out a different one in the rack.
1:06:26SPEAKER- Like a saran wrap over the top
1:06:27SPEAKERso they don't get dusty and...
1:06:29SPEAKER- It depends on what it is, right?
1:06:31SPEAKERSome stuff is like sort of durable enough
1:06:33SPEAKERthat I don't mind.
1:06:35SPEAKERAnd then there's some stuff where I have the idea
1:06:37SPEAKERand I just gradually, over time,
1:06:39SPEAKERstart getting the parts for it.
1:06:41SPEAKERAnd then once I have everything,
1:06:45SPEAKERthen I'll go forward with it.
1:06:47SPEAKERSo the fun thing that happens at this household
1:06:50SPEAKERis something will show up at the house
1:06:53SPEAKERand I ordered it six months ago.
1:06:55SPEAKER- Oh, you didn't press it to pass you.
1:06:57SPEAKER- Yeah, it's like, what did I order this for?
1:06:59SPEAKERIn fact, it was like this ESP32
1:07:02SPEAKERand this circular LCD screen that showed up.
1:07:06SPEAKERI'm like, what was this going to?
1:07:10SPEAKERAnd then I have to kind of look through my browser history
1:07:12SPEAKERto figure out what did I bookmark, right?
1:07:17SPEAKER- It's funny, I talk about this with my daughter a lot
1:07:18SPEAKER'cause she's reaching a point where she's trying,
1:07:22SPEAKERshe's at an age now where she's excited
1:07:24SPEAKERto try a lot of new things.
1:07:26SPEAKERAnd there's that intoxicating early period
1:07:29SPEAKERwhere you're learning and your skill,
1:07:33SPEAKERlike your skill level is advancing every,
1:07:36SPEAKERyou're having big leaps in skill level
1:07:38SPEAKERevery time you go out and do something.
1:07:41SPEAKERSo in this case, it's ice skating.
1:07:42SPEAKERShe's been ice skating for about a year now.
1:07:45SPEAKERAnd I was explaining to her that this is the fun part.
1:07:50SPEAKERThose early stages where your mastery is increasing
1:07:53SPEAKERat a level you can notice every single time you do something
1:07:57SPEAKERis really intoxicating and then it's gonna get harder.
1:08:00SPEAKERThere's a period of time where you're gonna have to spend
1:08:02SPEAKERthree months building up a muscle
1:08:03SPEAKERthat you didn't know you had so that you can do the jump
1:08:07SPEAKERthat's the right kind of jump or whatever.
1:08:10SPEAKERAnd for me, I often will get to the part
1:08:15SPEAKERwhere I need that muscle and then I'm like,
1:08:17SPEAKERoh, I've had as much fun as I need to have from this.
1:08:20SPEAKERAnd I've learned the base level of mastery
1:08:23SPEAKERthat I need to know how to open up a Zune
1:08:28SPEAKERand swap the batteries or whatever,
1:08:29SPEAKERbut I'm never going to go beyond that and desolder
1:08:32SPEAKERthe SD RAM or the flash on there and put new flash on
1:08:36SPEAKERto have 256 gig Zune or whatever it is.
1:08:42SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, there's that like diminishing returns
1:08:44SPEAKERor yeah, like you said, you don't see as much progress
1:08:48SPEAKERas you did when you first started learning.
1:08:50SPEAKERI've learned to push through that
1:08:53SPEAKERand at least make myself uncomfortable enough
1:08:57SPEAKERto where, hey, am I gonna make it
1:08:59SPEAKERto the other side of this or not?
1:09:02SPEAKERAnd that's where I usually decide like,
1:09:06SPEAKERokay, I'm gonna stop or I'm going to finish this,
1:09:09SPEAKERbut I'm not going to do it again.
1:09:11SPEAKERAnd so, I can recap pretty much any game system
1:09:16SPEAKERor CRT or whatever, but there are certain things
1:09:18SPEAKERthat I basically pay my way out of, right?
1:09:21SPEAKERSo there's a game system called the Pioneer Laser Active
1:09:25SPEAKERthat's a laserdisc player that also has these packs
1:09:29SPEAKERthat are different game systems like the Genesis
1:09:32SPEAKERand then the TurboGrafx.
1:09:34SPEAKERThere are over 250 caps in that system
1:09:38SPEAKERand it is multi-layered boards
1:09:40SPEAKERand they're all over the place
1:09:41SPEAKERand you have to recalibrate the laser and everything else.
1:09:43SPEAKERAnd can I do that?
1:09:45SPEAKEROf course.
1:09:46SPEAKERWill I do that?
1:09:47SPEAKERAbsolutely not.
1:09:48SPEAKERI send it to someone who I consider
1:09:51SPEAKERto be a subject matter expert who does it all the time.
1:09:54SPEAKERAnd it's just recognizing like I can do it,
1:09:58SPEAKERbut I won't have any fun doing it.
1:10:01SPEAKERBut if I, this other thing like, hey, doing the screen mod
1:10:05SPEAKERor kind of getting this thing up and working,
1:10:07SPEAKERI will get satisfaction out of that.
1:10:09SPEAKERAnd so, I'll tackle that myself.
1:10:11SPEAKER- Very cool.
1:10:13SPEAKERLike, hey, is this going to be fun?
1:10:15SPEAKERHobbies should be fun.
1:10:17SPEAKERThis is a thing that's easy to forget sometimes.
1:10:19SPEAKER- I run into so many people that forget that
1:10:21SPEAKERand they're collecting.
1:10:22SPEAKERCollecting should be fun.
1:10:23SPEAKERIt shouldn't be stressful, right?
1:10:25SPEAKERAnd like, yes, everything is more expensive now
1:10:31SPEAKERin the collecting world.
1:10:32SPEAKERThere are still good deals to be had.
1:10:34SPEAKERAnd it's not a race, right?
1:10:37SPEAKERYou don't have to get everything all at once.
1:10:39SPEAKERAnd in fact, I would say that the least sticky collectors
1:10:45SPEAKERthat I run into are the ones
1:10:47SPEAKERwho try to do everything really quickly, right?
1:10:50SPEAKERBecause they, to your point, they didn't learn over time.
1:10:55SPEAKERI will say, I have one little anecdote.
1:10:57SPEAKERThe most hardcore collector community I have ever run into
1:11:01SPEAKERare bird watchers.
1:11:03SPEAKERLike with eBird now and that leaderboard,
1:11:06SPEAKERI think there's a documentary called Listers on YouTube.
1:11:10SPEAKERWe were at an airport lounge and we ran into a guy
1:11:14SPEAKERwho was on his fourth trip to Africa
1:11:17SPEAKERbecause he wanted to see birds that he had not seen before.
1:11:21SPEAKERAnd so whatever obsession you think you have
1:11:25SPEAKERfor your collecting world, be careful about bird watching.
1:11:29SPEAKER- Competitive birding is a real,
1:11:34SPEAKERif you ever wanna meet interesting bird people,
1:11:36SPEAKERgo to Point Reyes during the spring or the fall,
1:11:40SPEAKERduring the migration time,
1:11:42SPEAKERbecause the ornithologists set up mist netting there
1:11:46SPEAKERto catch, so they can catch and identify
1:11:49SPEAKERwhich birds are coming through,
1:11:50SPEAKERwhich kinds of birds are coming through in the quantity.
1:11:53SPEAKERBut then also the bird watchers are out in full force
1:11:55SPEAKERand it's wild 'cause like you can catch,
1:11:57SPEAKERlike during the migration period,
1:11:58SPEAKERyou get a bunch of birds that you never ever see in the area
1:12:01SPEAKERthat are coming from Mexico to Canada or vice versa.
1:12:03SPEAKERAnd it's, yeah, bird people.
1:12:06SPEAKERLike I love watching birds, but.
1:12:09SPEAKER- Bird watching is super fun.
1:12:10SPEAKERYou know, it's something that I've really,
1:12:11SPEAKERyou know, diving into in my retirement.
1:12:13SPEAKERBut I will also say that there are great communities there
1:12:16SPEAKERtoo, like Golden Gate Bird Alliance.
1:12:18SPEAKERWe've done habitat restoration with them.
1:12:21SPEAKERAnd then they have extremely knowledgeable people
1:12:24SPEAKERthat love sharing their knowledge, right?
1:12:26SPEAKERAnd be like, hey, look over here, see this?
1:12:28SPEAKERHere's this type of bird and here's why it's here
1:12:30SPEAKERand all kinds of other stuff.
1:12:31SPEAKERSo it's wonderful.
1:12:32SPEAKER- Steve, are you on the eBird leaderboard?
1:12:34SPEAKER- I am not at all on the leaderboard
1:12:36SPEAKERbecause I am colorblind
1:12:39SPEAKERand that makes birding much more difficult.
1:12:42SPEAKERAnd so I will probably never be on that.
1:12:44SPEAKERAnd I'm not competitive about it.
1:12:46SPEAKERI just more like enjoy looking at the birds.
1:12:48SPEAKER- Birds are cool, man.
1:12:49SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
1:12:50SPEAKER- Well, Steve, thanks as always for coming by.
1:12:52SPEAKERThis has been a ton of fun.
1:12:56SPEAKERLike, I guess my last, the last question
1:13:00SPEAKERis when you complete the collection,
1:13:02SPEAKERare you relieved or sad or excited or like,
1:13:07SPEAKERwas that a good moment or was it kind of a downbeat for you?
1:13:11SPEAKER- You know, it's kind of--
1:13:13SPEAKER- Was it too long ago to remember?
1:13:15SPEAKER- No, no, I mean, it's really none of the above.
1:13:18SPEAKERIt's more of a non-event as much as,
1:13:22SPEAKERas strange as that sounds, right?
1:13:24SPEAKERIt's like, okay, it's there, it's done, right?
1:13:27SPEAKERAnd I would say maybe this goes back to personal passion.
1:13:33SPEAKERThere were some collections
1:13:34SPEAKERthat were very challenging to complete.
1:13:39SPEAKERAnd I would say that it was like TurboGrafx-16
1:13:42SPEAKERcompleted a box, right?
1:13:43SPEAKERBecause they come in jewel cases.
1:13:45SPEAKERWhy would anybody keep the box?
1:13:48SPEAKERAnd so finding some of those boxes to me
1:13:53SPEAKERwere a really fun adventure, right?
1:13:56SPEAKERAnd so it wasn't the last one.
1:13:58SPEAKERIt was more like a memorable piece
1:14:00SPEAKERwithin the journey of collecting, right?
1:14:05SPEAKERLike I had not seen a particular box ever, right?
1:14:09SPEAKERI mean, to this day, I have eBay saved searches
1:14:12SPEAKERthat have not hit in 15, 20 years, right?
1:14:16SPEAKERAnd so it was that kind of case
1:14:18SPEAKERwhere I'd never seen the box
1:14:19SPEAKERand I ran into someone at a show
1:14:21SPEAKERand they're like, oh yeah, I've got that at home.
1:14:22SPEAKERI'm like, we are getting in the car
1:14:24SPEAKERand we are driving to your house
1:14:25SPEAKERand I will give you more money
1:14:27SPEAKERthan anyone's ever paid for this
1:14:28SPEAKERbecause I have never seen it, right?
1:14:31SPEAKERAnd this is maybe my last thing is a lot of people say,
1:14:34SPEAKERoh, this stuff is really rare.
1:14:37SPEAKERI would argue that a lot of stuff
1:14:38SPEAKERis very uncommon but expensive.
1:14:41SPEAKERLike if you have the money, you can buy it.
1:14:44SPEAKERWhat I would be on the lookout for
1:14:45SPEAKERif you're like really hardcore
1:14:47SPEAKERis the stuff that never goes for sale
1:14:49SPEAKERbecause that is when you're gonna have
1:14:52SPEAKERthe real like sickos come out of the woodwork
1:14:54SPEAKERbecause there's like three of you
1:14:55SPEAKERthat need that thing or want that thing
1:14:57SPEAKERand it's the first time one has been for sale
1:15:00SPEAKERin like 10 years.
1:15:01SPEAKER- And all three of you know each other.
1:15:02SPEAKER- Yeah, that's usually the case, right?
1:15:04SPEAKEREspecially in some of the smaller communities.
1:15:06SPEAKERIt's like, okay, who has the biggest bankroll, right?
1:15:10SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, or who gets them
1:15:12SPEAKERbefore they realize what they have.
1:15:13SPEAKER- Yeah, exactly, exactly.
1:15:16SPEAKER- Well, cool.
1:15:17SPEAKERSteve, it's always a pleasure to chat.
1:15:18SPEAKERThis was, if people wanna find you,
1:15:21SPEAKERwhere can they find you here in your retirement?
1:15:24SPEAKER- I'm Steve Lin on Blue Sky
1:15:26SPEAKERand that is pretty much the only place
1:15:29SPEAKERyou're gonna find me.
1:15:30SPEAKEROf course, Video Game History Foundation,
1:15:33SPEAKERI am doing more work with the foundation
1:15:37SPEAKERnow that I have more time
1:15:38SPEAKERand so you'll probably see me at events.
1:15:41SPEAKERI'll be at California Extreme.
1:15:43SPEAKERI'll be running around.
1:15:43SPEAKERI might have a headlamp and a soldering iron in my hand,
1:15:46SPEAKERbut you know, stop and say hi.
1:15:48SPEAKER- Helping people with repairs.
1:15:49SPEAKER- Yeah, it's sort of like the field medic, right?
1:15:53SPEAKERAnd getting things up and running.
1:15:55SPEAKERAnd you know, things like electronics, flea market.
1:15:58SPEAKERAs you're listening to this, like we said,
1:16:00SPEAKERthe Vintage Computer Festival West is this weekend.
1:16:05SPEAKERThose types of events, but you know,
1:16:07SPEAKERmostly online, you can find me on Blue Sky
1:16:09SPEAKERand you'll see all the dumb projects that I'm working on.
1:16:12SPEAKER- If you're in the Bay Area,
1:16:13SPEAKERwe're gonna be at the electronics flea market next week.
1:16:16SPEAKERWe met a bunch of listeners.
1:16:18SPEAKERI was there last month.
1:16:20SPEAKERSteve and I were both there last month.
1:16:21SPEAKERWe met a bunch of listeners
1:16:24SPEAKERand you should definitely come out.
1:16:25SPEAKERIt's called the Bay Area Electronics Flea Market.
1:16:27SPEAKERIt's in Saratoga, California,
1:16:29SPEAKERwhich is like between, close to San Jose.
1:16:31SPEAKER- Yeah, come by, say hi.
1:16:32SPEAKERI mean, plus the proceeds from the booth
1:16:34SPEAKERare going to a good cause in honor of Gordon, so.
1:16:38SPEAKER- And then California Extreme is next week
1:16:40SPEAKERalso in the Bay Area and Brad and I were talking,
1:16:43SPEAKERI've never actually been, so I know it's embarrassing.
1:16:48SPEAKERLook, it's a long way and it's usually,
1:16:52SPEAKERlook, I don't like going out in loud places, okay, Steve?
1:16:55SPEAKER- It's very loud, it is very loud.
1:16:57SPEAKERThat is a warning, but yeah.
1:16:59SPEAKERSo I think this is 26th year, something like that.
1:17:04SPEAKERSo we've been doing it for a really long time.
1:17:06SPEAKER- Well, my daughter has expressed interest,
1:17:08SPEAKERso maybe I'll see if we can get her to come down, so.
1:17:12SPEAKER- Cool, awesome.
1:17:15SPEAKER- Well, thanks.
1:17:16SPEAKERYeah, we'll have to have you back sometime soon, Steve.
1:17:17SPEAKERThanks. - Yeah, well,
1:17:18SPEAKERthanks for having me on and always a pleasure.
1:17:21SPEAKER(upbeat music)
1:17:23SPEAKER- Thank you so much for coming by, Steve.
1:17:25SPEAKERIt's always a pleasure to chat
1:17:26SPEAKERand please go over and check out the E3 project
1:17:29SPEAKERthat they have at the Video Game History Foundation site.
1:17:32SPEAKERIt is absolutely fascinating to see the stuff
1:17:34SPEAKERthat they've posted and to go back
1:17:37SPEAKERand remember what E3 used to be like in the heyday of E3.
1:17:44SPEAKERIt was really fun for me to go back and explore that stuff.
1:17:48SPEAKERThis is the part of the show where we thank patrons
1:17:51SPEAKERfor supporting us.
1:17:51SPEAKERAs always, "Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod"
1:17:53SPEAKERis a listener-supported show.
1:17:55SPEAKERWe wouldn't be here without you, the listener.
1:17:58SPEAKERSo if you wanna find out how to support the Tech Pod,
1:18:00SPEAKERyou can go to patreon.com/techpod,
1:18:03SPEAKERwhere for five bucks a month,
1:18:04SPEAKERyou get access to the Tech Pod Discord,
1:18:06SPEAKERwhich is full of nerds talking about stuff
1:18:08SPEAKERlike the stuff that Steve and I talked about,
1:18:10SPEAKERwell, for the last hour and a half.
1:18:13SPEAKERYou also get access to the monthly patron-exclusive episode,
1:18:16SPEAKERincluding the one that Brad and I
1:18:17SPEAKERrecorded earlier this week.
1:18:18SPEAKERBut I wanna thank everybody for supporting the show,
1:18:21SPEAKERespecially our executive producer tier patrons,
1:18:24SPEAKERincluding Infelicitous Rips, Jordan Lippett,
1:18:28SPEAKERBunny Octothorpe Bunnyfiend, David Allen, and James Kamik.
1:18:31SPEAKERThank you all so, so much.
1:18:32SPEAKERWe appreciate each and every one of you.
1:18:34SPEAKERAnd on that note, we will be back next week
1:18:37SPEAKERwith another edition of the Tech Pod.
1:18:38SPEAKERI think unless something changes,
1:18:40SPEAKERBrad's currently scheduled to be back next week,
1:18:42SPEAKERand I'm looking forward to that.
1:18:43SPEAKERI think we're gonna talk about our, let's see,
1:18:48SPEAKERour respective adventures this week, I think,
1:18:51SPEAKERis the way to put that.
1:18:52SPEAKERWe're gonna go, Brad's gonna go to VCF, I believe,
1:18:55SPEAKERand I'm gonna head out.
1:18:57SPEAKERI'm heading down to L.A. for some interesting, fun stuff.
1:19:00SPEAKERSo we'll see you next week, and as always,
1:19:04SPEAKERplease consider the environment before printing this podcast.
1:19:09SPEAKERBye.
1:19:10SPEAKER(upbeat music)