00:00SPEAKERyou're never gonna believe who doesn't have worms.
00:04SPEAKER- Well, congratulations.
00:06SPEAKER- I know, right?
00:07SPEAKER- Yeah, you must be very excited.
00:09SPEAKER- It's, look, it's a big moment for Toby.
00:12SPEAKER- Oh.
00:12SPEAKER- I also don't have worms though,
00:14SPEAKERif that's what you're asking.
00:15SPEAKER- Have you been dewormed
00:16SPEAKERor were you worm free to begin with?
00:18SPEAKER- Well, look, I had a little,
00:20SPEAKERwhen I took him to the vet last week,
00:22SPEAKERthey gave, they were like,
00:25SPEAKER"Hey, we need to get a poop specimen.
00:26SPEAKER"We could just do it here if you want,
00:28SPEAKER"but it's a little intrusive."
00:29SPEAKERAnd I was like, "What do you mean intrusive?"
00:30SPEAKERI was like, "Well, we gotta go up there
00:32SPEAKER"and do a little scraping."
00:34SPEAKER- Manual extraction, they call that.
00:36SPEAKER- Yeah, and I was like, "Well, I'm not gonna-"
00:38SPEAKERLike he said, but the vet was like,
00:40SPEAKER"He seems to really like it here,
00:41SPEAKER"so let's not do things that are gonna make him
00:43SPEAKER"not like coming to the vet."
00:45SPEAKERAnd I was like, "I approve of that
00:46SPEAKER"as somebody who's gonna have this guy for a long time."
00:49SPEAKERAnd so instead I was like, "Well, what do I do?"
00:52SPEAKERThey were like, "Well, just collect a sample
00:53SPEAKER"and you put it in your fridge if it's at night
00:55SPEAKER"and you bring it in the next day."
00:56SPEAKERI was like, "I'm not putting the poop in my fridge.
00:58SPEAKER"How long do I have to let it set?"
00:59SPEAKERThey were like, "Oh, it has to be fresh.
01:01SPEAKER"You need it within like 45 minutes."
01:03SPEAKERI was like, "No problem."
01:05SPEAKERBut I was expecting them to be like,
01:06SPEAKER"Yeah, just bring it back."
01:07SPEAKERBut they gave me a little vial with a little spoon on it.
01:10SPEAKERIt was very manageable.
01:13SPEAKER- So the plan here was upon the event,
01:15SPEAKERdrop everything and run it to the vet?
01:17SPEAKER- It literally, when he was like,
01:19SPEAKER"Hey, I wanna go out on the morning,
01:20SPEAKER"the next workday morning,"
01:22SPEAKERI literally got in the shower as Gina was out back
01:25SPEAKERwaiting for the event.
01:27SPEAKERAnd then it was a straight OJ Simpson through the airport
01:31SPEAKERto get there on time.
01:33SPEAKER- You got in your white Bronco?
01:35SPEAKER- Yeah, well, it was the other OJ Simpson reference,
01:38SPEAKERbut yeah.
01:39SPEAKER- Oh, wait a minute.
01:40SPEAKERWhat was the airport one?
01:42SPEAKERI thought you were talking about the--
01:43SPEAKER- Oh, wow, you might be too young.
01:44SPEAKERSo he had a series of Hertz car commercials
01:48SPEAKERabout how easy it was to drop off your rental car
01:50SPEAKERif you did Hertz.
01:51SPEAKERAnd the joke was, I think,
01:54SPEAKERyou didn't have to run like OJ Simpson through the airport
01:56SPEAKERafter you dropped off your rental car to make your flight.
01:59SPEAKER- Okay, I don't think I remember that one.
02:01SPEAKER- So he was like doing hurdles and the whole thing,
02:03SPEAKERlike dodging, like ducking and weaving
02:05SPEAKERand jumping over luggage and all sorts of shit
02:08SPEAKERin the airport.
02:09SPEAKERIt was pretty fantastic.
02:10SPEAKER- All right, I don't think I was aware of him
02:11SPEAKERbefore the trial actually, so.
02:14SPEAKER- That came on during like game four, game five
02:16SPEAKERof the finals in 1994.
02:18SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm not watching a lot of sports in the '90s,
02:21SPEAKERso that's probably why.
02:22SPEAKER- It was funny, that was the year after my freshman year
02:25SPEAKERin college and I was still super into the NBA at that point.
02:30SPEAKERAnd we were watching the game at a friend of mine's house
02:32SPEAKERand we were so pissed they kept cutting in on it.
02:35SPEAKERLittle did we know that guy was gonna basically
02:38SPEAKERbirth reality TV and also be the topic of conversation
02:42SPEAKERfor the next three years.
02:45SPEAKERWeird day.
02:47SPEAKERBut anyway, yeah, the dog doesn't have worms,
02:48SPEAKERso that's cool.
02:49SPEAKERWe can get kisses safely now.
02:50SPEAKER- That's cool, all right, enjoy.
02:52SPEAKER- He doesn't give me kisses though,
02:54SPEAKERhe doesn't like the beard.
02:55SPEAKER- Okay, well, give him time.
02:57SPEAKER- I mean, it worked on Gina eventually, I guess.
02:59SPEAKERLook, the rest of the world has gotten used to the beard.
03:02SPEAKERIt's true, the dog can get there too.
03:04SPEAKER(upbeat music)
03:25SPEAKER(upbeat music)
03:32SPEAKER- Welcome to Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod, I'm Will.
03:35SPEAKER- I'm Brad.
03:37SPEAKER- It's Computex Week, Brad.
03:39SPEAKER- It is Computex, well, was Computex Week, is it over?
03:41SPEAKER- I guess by the time you hear this, it'll be done.
03:44SPEAKER- You have not been to Computex, have you?
03:46SPEAKER- No, I've never been to Taiwan, I've always wanted to go
03:48SPEAKERand I think that they might have actually invited us
03:52SPEAKERlast year, 'cause about three months after it came in,
03:55SPEAKERI saw an email from a PR agency that I thought was maybe
04:00SPEAKERa skeezy fishing attempt that I think was maybe
04:02SPEAKERjust language challenges with the Computex PR agency.
04:07SPEAKERIt was like, "Hey, we would love to pay you
04:08SPEAKER"to come to Computex," and I was like, I was clearly a scam.
04:11SPEAKERSomebody's gonna try to harvest my kidneys, so whoops.
04:14SPEAKERWe could have been there right now
04:15SPEAKERhad I checked email more often.
04:17SPEAKER- Yep, lying in a bathtub full of ice.
04:19SPEAKER- Yeah, man, that sounds good, it's really warm today.
04:22SPEAKERI checked, it ends today at the time of this recording,
04:25SPEAKERbut I have obviously not been to Computex,
04:27SPEAKERbut having been to many, many, many E3s,
04:29SPEAKERI know what final day of conference is like.
04:31SPEAKERThere is zero news breaking.
04:33SPEAKER- I think this one is a little different,
04:35SPEAKER'cause I feel like the keynotes are usually stacked
04:38SPEAKERon the first couple of days.
04:39SPEAKERSo for folks who don't know, Computex is like CES or E3.
04:44SPEAKERIt's a big, giant, huge trade show.
04:45SPEAKERIt takes place in Taipei every year,
04:47SPEAKERand it's for PC builders and parts,
04:49SPEAKERand the motherboard manufacturers, the CPU folks,
04:53SPEAKERthe OEMs like Dell and Lenovo,
04:56SPEAKERall the people that make weird accessories,
04:58SPEAKERlike from coolers all the way down to keyboards
05:01SPEAKERand cases and stuff like that.
05:04SPEAKERBut it's all really centered around the PC,
05:06SPEAKERthe personal computer.
05:08SPEAKERSo it's been, I expected this to be kind of an off year
05:12SPEAKERbecause of the, I'm waving my hand now,
05:14SPEAKERbut the whole geopolitical situation
05:16SPEAKERaround RAM and storage costs.
05:18SPEAKERNot to mention the security of Taiwan.
05:23SPEAKER- I mean, yeah, yeah.
05:26SPEAKERAs the third front in the ongoing geopolitical crisis,
05:30SPEAKERyeah, it seems to make sense.
05:34SPEAKERBut yeah, so we're gonna run down a little bit
05:36SPEAKERof the more interesting things that came out
05:38SPEAKERas a result of Computex being this week.
05:41SPEAKERThere was, funnily, there was some interesting laptop stuff.
05:45SPEAKERThere's some interesting handheld stuff.
05:47SPEAKERI don't, I'm terrified to find out
05:50SPEAKERwhat these handhelds are gonna cost
05:52SPEAKER'cause the Steam Deck went up to $1,000
05:54SPEAKERbasically the other day.
05:55SPEAKER- It sure did.
05:57SPEAKER- And there's some other news that is wild, so.
06:01SPEAKER- There's a lot of trends to talk about, I feel like.
06:03SPEAKERAnd there's like, it's not all just new products.
06:05SPEAKERIt's like, what wasn't there and wasn't mentioned
06:08SPEAKERis also newsworthy.
06:10SPEAKERAnd there's some directionality to some of this news
06:12SPEAKERthat I think is telling that we can get into.
06:15SPEAKER- Do you wanna, I think we'll start with the AM5 stuff
06:18SPEAKERbecause AMD basically came out and said,
06:21SPEAKER"Hey, AM5's gonna last until at least 2029."
06:23SPEAKERI think they originally said it was gonna be 2027.
06:25SPEAKER- Yeah, it was '27.
06:26SPEAKER- Then '28 and now 2029.
06:28SPEAKER- Yeah, AM5 is AMD's current CPU socket.
06:32SPEAKERIt was brand new when I built that 7950 X3D.
06:36SPEAKERGod, that's been three years now.
06:38SPEAKERThat does not feel like I have been on a computer
06:40SPEAKERfor three, I mean, I've made some changes
06:42SPEAKERto that building interim, not on that AMD system anymore,
06:46SPEAKERbut it doesn't feel like that long ago.
06:47SPEAKERAt any rate, AM5 was the new socket for Zen 4,
06:51SPEAKERthe 7000 series risens.
06:53SPEAKERAnd I remember them saying at that time,
06:54SPEAKER"Yeah, it was 2027."
06:56SPEAKERAnd I think they said at the time,
06:58SPEAKERor maybe this was speculation on everybody's part
07:00SPEAKERthat there would be like three generations of risens on it.
07:04SPEAKERZen 4, 5, and presumably 6 or whatever comes next.
07:07SPEAKERBut they have, you're right,
07:08SPEAKERthey have pushed out the socket lifespan for two years,
07:12SPEAKERbut does that mean there's gonna be an extra generation
07:14SPEAKERof CPU on AM5 or does that just mean the third generation
07:17SPEAKERof AM5 CPU is that much farther off?
07:19SPEAKER- You know, it's interesting you asked that
07:21SPEAKER'cause we don't know.
07:21SPEAKERThey didn't announce, like this is the year
07:24SPEAKERthat I think typically in a more normal time,
07:26SPEAKERthey would have probably announced Zen 6.
07:28SPEAKER- Right, so that's the big, what was not at Computex to me
07:31SPEAKERis Zen 6 and Nova Lake, which are the next generations
07:36SPEAKERrespectively for AMD and Intel were like nowhere to be seen,
07:40SPEAKERno mention of them, no slide decks, no nothing.
07:42SPEAKER- Yeah, I think that's probably because of the situation.
07:46SPEAKERYou know, one of the underlying,
07:48SPEAKERI didn't put this in as a news story,
07:50SPEAKERbut one of the underlying conversations
07:51SPEAKERI've heard from people is that the motherboard vendors
07:53SPEAKERare all like reporting enormous sales declines this year.
07:58SPEAKERThere was a Gartner thing the other day
08:00SPEAKERthat said they expect the PC sales for consumers
08:03SPEAKERto be down like 30% at the holidays this year.
08:07SPEAKERAnd so my guess is that AMD and Intel both know
08:12SPEAKERthat launching a CPU into the current market
08:14SPEAKERis gonna be like not do what they want it to do
08:18SPEAKERfrom a business sense, just because of the other stuff
08:21SPEAKERsurrounding the market right now.
08:23SPEAKER- Yeah, seems like a lot of companies
08:25SPEAKERmaking those kinds of calculations right now
08:27SPEAKERlike in the video game space where I spend most of my time,
08:30SPEAKERlike all the rumors about like say the PlayStation 6,
08:32SPEAKERfor example, like those new consoles in a normal world
08:35SPEAKERor would have been slated to come out next holiday.
08:38SPEAKERThe end of next year, which is barely 18 months away,
08:41SPEAKERbut like all the reporting is like,
08:43SPEAKERSony is debating internally right now,
08:45SPEAKERis it better to delay the PlayStation 6
08:47SPEAKERwith all the costs and disruption that would cause?
08:50SPEAKERIs it better to just go ahead and ship it
08:51SPEAKERknowing that it's not gonna sell
08:52SPEAKERbecause it's probably gonna be a thousand dollars?
08:55SPEAKERIt's hard to answer that question.
08:59SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't wanna be in charge
09:00SPEAKERof predicting that stuff.
09:03SPEAKERThe, yeah, so no new CPUs, the AM5 being extended,
09:08SPEAKERI think probably means that Zen 6
09:10SPEAKERisn't gonna come out this year.
09:12SPEAKERMy guess is that AMD, with the position
09:14SPEAKERthey have in the market right now,
09:15SPEAKERespecially for the enthusiast and consumer spaces,
09:18SPEAKERprobably just keep selling what they have
09:21SPEAKERuntil Nova Lake comes out and then they,
09:24SPEAKERor until they know what Nova Lake's gonna be
09:26SPEAKERand then they go from there.
09:28SPEAKER- Yeah.
09:30SPEAKERInterestingly, AMD also re-released the 10th anniversary
09:33SPEAKERedition of the 5800 X3D.
09:35SPEAKER- Wait.
09:37SPEAKER- Yeah.
09:38SPEAKER- That thing's not actually 10 years old.
09:38SPEAKER- I don't think so.
09:39SPEAKER- No, not even close.
09:41SPEAKER- It's like eight.
09:42SPEAKER- If that, maybe it's that old.
09:45SPEAKER- 2017, yeah, that seems right for 5800, right?
09:49SPEAKERMaybe not.
09:49SPEAKERIt was Zen 4.
09:50SPEAKER- No, no, Zen 3 came out, actually Zen 3 came out in 2020
09:53SPEAKER'cause I remember when we were in the thick
09:55SPEAKERof like CBS giving us budget during the pandemic
09:59SPEAKERto buy computer parts is around when Zen 3 was launching
10:01SPEAKER'cause I almost, I missed by like two weeks
10:04SPEAKERlike us losing the budget allocation
10:07SPEAKERand getting a Zen 3 system at that time, so.
10:09SPEAKER- You gotta spend it or else it goes away.
10:10SPEAKERYeah, it was Zen 3.
10:12SPEAKERI said Zen 4 a minute ago, but it was Zen 3.
10:15SPEAKERArguably the first of the really, really good Ryzons,
10:17SPEAKERthe 5800 X3D for games.
10:19SPEAKER- Yeah.
10:20SPEAKER- It's the first one that they had stacked the 3DV cache on.
10:23SPEAKER- Right.
10:25SPEAKERSo they have had to re-engineer this chip
10:28SPEAKERto put it back into production, apparently.
10:30SPEAKER- Wow, what did they do?
10:31SPEAKER- The bonding process they used when this thing was new,
10:35SPEAKERthat's like TSMC's bonding process,
10:37SPEAKERlike what they offer to stack silicon on a package
10:42SPEAKERhas since been retired.
10:43SPEAKERLike the whole production process for this thing
10:45SPEAKERis no longer possible because they've, you know--
10:48SPEAKER- Yeah, that line doesn't exist anymore, probably.
10:50SPEAKER- Dismantled those production lines or whatever.
10:52SPEAKERSo they had to re-engineer this chip
10:54SPEAKERto work with the newer bonding process that they use.
10:58SPEAKERPoint being, like they had to put like a lot of,
11:00SPEAKERaccording to AMD, they had to put a lot of actual work
11:02SPEAKERinto bringing this thing back.
11:04SPEAKER- That's wild because like they've done,
11:07SPEAKERso they've done some aim for re-releases
11:10SPEAKERin the last year or so, especially for like,
11:14SPEAKERlike they did a South America 5700, I think, last year
11:19SPEAKERthat was like exclusive to Brazil and Latin America.
11:24SPEAKERAnd that seemed like, hey, we found a bunch of these
11:28SPEAKERin a warehouse someplace, let's move 'em.
11:31SPEAKERThis feels like, the fact that they're re-engineering this
11:34SPEAKERand producing it again to me says, hey, we think that
11:37SPEAKERbecause the DDR4 prices are reasonable,
11:40SPEAKERthis is gonna be the viable way going forward
11:42SPEAKERfor an extended period of time, which is like,
11:47SPEAKERhey, the fact that we're making AM4 stuff
11:49SPEAKERor DDR4 stuff again is wild to me.
11:52SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, they're not entirely wrong, right?
11:54SPEAKERLike one of these and some decent 3600 DDR4
11:58SPEAKERis like still a pretty viable, with a good graphics card.
12:00SPEAKERThat's still a pretty viable gaming rig, right?
12:03SPEAKER- My daughter uses that and it's a much nicer computer
12:07SPEAKERthan I had for at any point during my youth, I guess.
12:10SPEAKER- I feel like I still see the 5800 X3D like pretty high up
12:13SPEAKERin even modern CPU benchmarks.
12:15SPEAKERLike every time a new SKU comes out, you still see that one
12:17SPEAKERlike pretty high up in the rankings.
12:19SPEAKER- It's in raw CPU performance, it's pretty good.
12:22SPEAKERAnytime you have memory bandwidth limitations,
12:24SPEAKERit suffers because the RAM's a lot slower.
12:27SPEAKER- Right, but it's those places where,
12:29SPEAKERor it's those games, I should say,
12:31SPEAKERwhere the extra CPU cache really matters
12:34SPEAKERis where it surges ahead.
12:35SPEAKER- Especially if you're playing at 1440p or 1080p or 1440p,
12:38SPEAKERit's fabulous.
12:39SPEAKER- Yeah, I should mention real quick,
12:41SPEAKERI mean, this is kind of getting into the weeds.
12:42SPEAKERI don't know if you remember when this thing first shipped
12:44SPEAKERthat they had the extra cache was on top of the die
12:47SPEAKERand the actual CPU was underneath,
12:48SPEAKERwhich made it a lot harder to cool that thing.
12:50SPEAKER- Yeah, that's the problem with the first two generations
12:53SPEAKERof the X3D ships, really.
12:54SPEAKER- Right, so they corrected that with the 9,000,
12:56SPEAKERthe 9,800 X3D and company.
13:00SPEAKERBut just to point out that in re-engineering this thing,
13:03SPEAKERthey did not like, that doesn't mean
13:04SPEAKERthat they have also made that--
13:05SPEAKER- Oh, they didn't flip it.
13:06SPEAKER- They have not made that improvement to this.
13:08SPEAKERIt's still got the--
13:09SPEAKER- That makes sense.
13:10SPEAKER- Slightly harder to cool issue,
13:11SPEAKERbut that's not a huge problem.
13:15SPEAKER- I guess while we're talking about DDR4,
13:17SPEAKERthere was a big article on Tom's Hardware
13:18SPEAKERabout DDR4, motherboard manufacturers making DDR4 chipsets
13:24SPEAKERand motherboards again, which is also wild to me.
13:28SPEAKER- Wait, like new ones or just putting old--
13:31SPEAKER- I think they're putting old ones.
13:32SPEAKER- Just back into production.
13:33SPEAKER- Yeah, so it looks like it's putting,
13:36SPEAKERthey said they confirmed it with a half dozen sources,
13:38SPEAKERmotherboard manufacturers and module houses
13:40SPEAKERare seeing an increase in demand for DDR4
13:42SPEAKERand they're shifting production accordingly.
13:46SPEAKEROn the motherboard side, two vendors confirmed
13:48SPEAKERthat they're ramping production of DDR4 motherboards
13:50SPEAKERfor the second half of this year and into 2027,
13:54SPEAKERgiven the state of motherboard sales,
13:56SPEAKERdeclining as much as 37% by some vendors.
13:59SPEAKERThis is an article by Paul Alcorn and Jake Roach
14:01SPEAKERover at Tom's.
14:02SPEAKER- I mean, I'll grant that it is depressing
14:05SPEAKERto watch things going backwards.
14:06SPEAKERIt's not something you normally see,
14:08SPEAKERbut maybe it gives me a little bit of hope
14:10SPEAKERthat the market is gonna, okay, let me back up.
14:13SPEAKERIn the context of the legitimate fears
14:16SPEAKERyou see a lot these days of people going like,
14:18SPEAKERoh, they're trying to kill personal computing.
14:19SPEAKERLike they're trying to move all of compute into the cloud
14:22SPEAKERand just charge you rent for it.
14:24SPEAKERLike, I guess this gives me some hope
14:26SPEAKERthat the market will adapt and find ways
14:28SPEAKERto keep letting people buy their own computers.
14:30SPEAKER- I think, I mean, I think it makes the decision matrix
14:34SPEAKERmuch more complicated.
14:36SPEAKERYou know, it's a, you know, do you choose between 64 gigs,
14:42SPEAKERa 64 gig DDR4 machine or a 32 gig DDR5 machine
14:49SPEAKERor, you know, and really like,
14:54SPEAKERor I guess if you're sitting on an AM4 machine right now
14:56SPEAKERand you'd never bought a 5800 X3D you're, you're stoked
14:59SPEAKERbecause they were really expensive for a long time.
15:04SPEAKERI mean, I don't see Intel putting 14900Ks
15:07SPEAKERback in production.
15:10SPEAKER- Although they shouldn't at this point,
15:11SPEAKERlike the 270K plus is-
15:14SPEAKER- Yeah, but it's DDR5.
15:16SPEAKER- Oh, right, yes, you're right.
15:17SPEAKER- Yeah.
15:19SPEAKERYeah, now the next question is,
15:20SPEAKERare they going to make a DDR4 version of Nova Lake?
15:22SPEAKERSorry, 14900, you can do both.
15:24SPEAKER- Let me, let me back up.
15:25SPEAKERI guess the, yeah, the 14900,
15:27SPEAKERthat's where my confusion came from
15:29SPEAKERis that I forgot you could do both.
15:31SPEAKER- Nobody did it.
15:32SPEAKER- I totally forgot you could.
15:34SPEAKERI mean, that requires a motherboard
15:35SPEAKERspecifically made for that, right?
15:37SPEAKER- Yeah, you have to get a, you get a different,
15:39SPEAKERyou get a DDR4 motherboard.
15:41SPEAKERThere weren't a ton of them, as I recall.
15:43SPEAKEREarly on the 12900, the 12th gen and the 13th gen,
15:49SPEAKERyou could still get a fair number,
15:50SPEAKERbut on, by the time the 14th gen came around there,
15:53SPEAKERlike, I don't think Intel was selling
15:54SPEAKERa DDR4 chipset anymore.
15:56SPEAKER- Yeah, I believe that.
15:58SPEAKER- Yeah.
15:59SPEAKER- Strange times.
16:00SPEAKER- Strange times, indeed.
16:03SPEAKERShould we talk about laptop stuff for a minute?
16:05SPEAKER- Yeah, I think we really have to talk about the Nvidia.
16:07SPEAKERRTX Spark feels like the kind of splashiest news
16:10SPEAKERfrom this thing.
16:12SPEAKER- Yeah, I was surprised, I mean, I guess,
16:14SPEAKERso the RTX Spark is a kind of,
16:17SPEAKERit's not exactly NUC-sized, it's more like an Apple,
16:21SPEAKERApple Studio-sized kind of small computer.
16:24SPEAKERIt's an ARM-based CPU, and it's set up
16:27SPEAKERwith a whole big GPU and a whole buttload of RAM
16:29SPEAKERto do AI workloads on, basically.
16:32SPEAKER- Yeah, or, well, so that's what the DGX Spark was.
16:35SPEAKER- Sorry, the DGX Spark, yeah, yeah.
16:37SPEAKER- Oh, you're talking about, yeah,
16:38SPEAKERyou're talking about the old one, so yeah,
16:39SPEAKERthat's been out for, what, a year and a half now,
16:41SPEAKERsomething like that?
16:42SPEAKER- They announced it at CES last year,
16:44SPEAKERI think, for GTC last year.
16:45SPEAKER- So that's the, and that's, isn't that the one,
16:47SPEAKERdoesn't it have weird gold trim on it?
16:49SPEAKER- It's golden, yeah.
16:51SPEAKER- It looks expensive, basically, and is expensive,
16:55SPEAKERand was basically just for it.
16:57SPEAKERYeah, okay, I'm looking at shots of it now.
16:59SPEAKERIt's got a weird gold, I don't know what they're doing.
17:03SPEAKER- It looks like a golden-- - This thing's $5,000.
17:04SPEAKER- Like it's-- - Max Studio.
17:06SPEAKER- Yes, kind of, it's for AI developers, basically,
17:09SPEAKERis how they pitched it, but--
17:10SPEAKER- Yeah.
17:11SPEAKER- They're kind of frustratingly vague
17:14SPEAKERon sort of specs for the RTX Spark,
17:17SPEAKERwhich is the more consumer-focused one.
17:19SPEAKERI mean, their product page is like up to 20-core CPU.
17:23SPEAKER- Yeah, but it's designed for mobile, is the thing.
17:26SPEAKER- Right, right.
17:27SPEAKER- Right.
17:28SPEAKER- So that's the thing, like, okay, my first question
17:30SPEAKERwhen all this started coming about was like,
17:32SPEAKERwhat are Nvidia's ambitions here?
17:34SPEAKERBut then I think that becomes a rhetorical question
17:37SPEAKERpretty quickly when you look at what they're saying,
17:39SPEAKERwhich is, hang on, let me pull up some of the,
17:41SPEAKERlet me pull up the press release.
17:42SPEAKERNvidia and Microsoft reinvent Windows PCs.
17:46SPEAKERLike, because the DGX Spark
17:49SPEAKERwas a like expensive developer-focused thing,
17:51SPEAKERI was like, okay, are these development laptops?
17:53SPEAKERLike, what's going on?
17:54SPEAKERBut like, that seems like a pretty direct statement,
17:57SPEAKERreinvent Windows PCs.
17:59SPEAKERAnd then if you look at the RTX Spark page,
18:01SPEAKERthere's like, there's a section for content creators,
18:04SPEAKERthere's a section for gamers, and a section for developers.
18:06SPEAKERLike, it seems like they are just making a push
18:09SPEAKERinto consumer.
18:11SPEAKER- They call it a new beginning for personal computers.
18:14SPEAKER- Yes, like, and I hate that I'm like trying
18:16SPEAKERto psychoanalyze Jensen Wong here basically,
18:19SPEAKERbut it really does feel like he has identified
18:23SPEAKERanother market he wants to move into and dominate.
18:27SPEAKER- So look, this is for up to 128 gigabytes.
18:31SPEAKERSo this is portable workstation.
18:33SPEAKER- Yeah, it still can be like a very expensive
18:36SPEAKERAI development workstations type thing, to be clear,
18:40SPEAKERbut they are also pitching it as like something
18:42SPEAKERthat could just be your laptop for general purpose.
18:44SPEAKER- Yeah, it's kind of like the Strix Halo,
18:46SPEAKERStrix Point separation on the AMD side, right?
18:49SPEAKERLike one is, but with probably much more GPU,
18:52SPEAKERit seems like, 'cause they're claiming it's a petaflop.
18:56SPEAKERThe thing to me that stood out here is that
19:00SPEAKERmaybe this is an ARM chip
19:01SPEAKERI'm actually interested in for once.
19:03SPEAKER- Right, so that's the followup question.
19:05SPEAKERWell, there's a couple of questions that spawn from like,
19:07SPEAKERhey, what are their strategic goals with this thing?
19:10SPEAKERAnd one of them is, does this mean Windows on ARM
19:13SPEAKERis actually gonna start to matter
19:15SPEAKERbecause it doesn't seem like Qualcomm
19:17SPEAKERwas able to make that go?
19:18SPEAKER- So the Qualcomm Windows on ARM,
19:21SPEAKERfrom my understanding from talking to folks at PC World,
19:23SPEAKERthe Windows on ARM for Qualcomm
19:25SPEAKERhas had pretty good adoption in corporate.
19:29SPEAKER- Oh, okay, sure, I can see that.
19:31SPEAKERYeah, 'cause it makes sense, the battery life's really good,
19:33SPEAKERthe price is right on them.
19:34SPEAKER- And everything, most everything is web-based
19:37SPEAKERin that space anyway, so you don't have to worry
19:38SPEAKERabout natively compiled stuff not working.
19:41SPEAKER- And also after the initial bumps,
19:43SPEAKEReverything but games kind of worked out, like got okay.
19:46SPEAKERLike they've solved all their problems with VPNs
19:48SPEAKERand stuff that they had during the launch
19:49SPEAKERtwo years ago pretty quickly.
19:52SPEAKERThe interesting thing about this is,
19:55SPEAKERlike the DGX Spark is pitched as a Linux machine, right?
19:59SPEAKER'Cause that's where people were doing the inference
20:01SPEAKERand that's, so the idea is you set up Linux,
20:03SPEAKERyou run like LM Studio or something like that,
20:05SPEAKERyou run your models on it, then you connect to those
20:08SPEAKERusing an API just like you would to Anthropic or OpenAI
20:11SPEAKERor something like that to models on the cloud.
20:15SPEAKERThis, they're pitching as Windows first agents,
20:18SPEAKERwhich is a new thought.
20:21SPEAKERThe DGX Spark you can run Windows on,
20:23SPEAKERbut that felt like a thing you'd be wasting
20:25SPEAKERthe money you spent on if you put Windows on that thing.
20:29SPEAKERSo yeah, I don't know, I'm curious.
20:32SPEAKERI'm curious to see what people think of this thing
20:34SPEAKERwhen it's out.
20:35SPEAKERThey announced it, there's a couple of people
20:36SPEAKERthat announced both kind of NUC style,
20:40SPEAKERMac studio style small boxes that sit on your desk.
20:43SPEAKER- There's a bunch of laptops also on Nvidia's
20:45SPEAKERlike just kind of general RTX Spark landing page,
20:47SPEAKERbut there's no specs on anything.
20:48SPEAKERIt's like there's an ASUS ProArt, a Dell XPS,
20:51SPEAKERHP OmniBook, like kind of all the usual suspects,
20:55SPEAKERLenovo Yoga, but there's a Microsoft Surface laptop ultra,
20:58SPEAKERwhich I think is the only one that anybody
21:00SPEAKERactually said numbers about.
21:02SPEAKER- Oh, that's interesting.
21:03SPEAKERI assume this is high speed RAM soldered onto the boards
21:06SPEAKERjust because of the use cases and like in the same way
21:11SPEAKERthat the Strix Halo machines all have soldered on RAM.
21:13SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't think we know a ton yet.
21:15SPEAKERThere's this Tom's hardware story from yesterday though,
21:18SPEAKERhas got quotes, basically partners generally declined
21:22SPEAKERto answer questions about power and thermal budgets and such
21:25SPEAKERbut Microsoft quote, "Microsoft's reps freely shared
21:28SPEAKERthat the Surface laptop ultra is designed
21:30SPEAKERaround a TDP of 110 watts."
21:33SPEAKER- Yeah, that's not that high for a workstation.
21:35SPEAKER- For a workstation, for a laptop though?
21:37SPEAKER- For a laptop workstation, yeah.
21:40SPEAKERYeah, I want to say like the Framework 16
21:43SPEAKERships with 160 watt power supply.
21:46SPEAKER- Okay, sure.
21:47SPEAKERI mean, I have a MacBook Pro.
21:48SPEAKERI guess I can put that in context.
21:49SPEAKERLike my MacBook Pro power adapter is 96 watts.
21:52SPEAKERSo I guess that's like pretty standard
21:54SPEAKERfor this kind of beefy ARM workstation laptop.
21:57SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm looking at the, let's see,
22:00SPEAKERthe Framework 16, which is a specs out at the high end
22:03SPEAKERwith a Ryzen AI 9 HX370, which is 12 cores, 24 threads
22:09SPEAKERwith a decent GPU is, where is it?
22:14SPEAKERWhere's the power?
22:15SPEAKERMechanical display interfaces.
22:17SPEAKERThis is just taking, there's so much stuff on the,
22:18SPEAKERoh, here we go.
22:19SPEAKERGet up to 240 watts with that.
22:22SPEAKER- Oh, okay.
22:22SPEAKER- So yeah, that's what you have to have
22:25SPEAKERif you're using the graphics expansion module
22:29SPEAKERis up to at least 180, it says.
22:31SPEAKERSo, so yeah, that's not out of the realm.
22:34SPEAKER- Do you think the Nvidia name sells more laptops here
22:37SPEAKERin a way that Qualcomm didn't?
22:40SPEAKER- I mean, I don't know.
22:42SPEAKERDid Tegra sell devices back in the day?
22:45SPEAKERI don't think so.
22:46SPEAKER- No, but it's never been consumer facing in this way.
22:48SPEAKERLike to Tegra, Tegra's in the switch.
22:50SPEAKERTegra is like big and automotive.
22:52SPEAKERLike Nvidia has a pretty big--
22:52SPEAKER- It was big in the shield and stuff like that.
22:53SPEAKERBut those were just Nvidia devices.
22:55SPEAKER- It's never really been like front of the box,
22:58SPEAKERlike Nvidia inside kind of stuff
23:00SPEAKERin the way that they are really making a put,
23:02SPEAKERyou know, that whole redefines Windows,
23:05SPEAKERredefines the personal computer,
23:07SPEAKERwhatever language they're using
23:08SPEAKERis like much more highfalutin
23:10SPEAKERthan they ever got with the Tegra stuff.
23:12SPEAKER- Honestly, what this feels like to me
23:14SPEAKERis that they built this with Microsoft around the,
23:18SPEAKERhey, we're gonna make Windows 12 an agentic AI OS.
23:21SPEAKER- Oh boy, oh boy.
23:23SPEAKER- And then Microsoft was like,
23:25SPEAKERhey, people hate this, we gotta do something else.
23:26SPEAKERAnd now they have this thing that they built for it.
23:28SPEAKER- Okay, all right, that's somewhat more positive.
23:31SPEAKERI am once again typing the words Windows 12 into Google.
23:34SPEAKER- Oh no, you're gonna get a bunch of weird spam now.
23:37SPEAKER- PC World from four days ago,
23:39SPEAKERWindows 12 will not be at build.
23:41SPEAKER- There you go, build is happening next week I think here.
23:43SPEAKER- So I guess we're not--
23:45SPEAKER- Maybe this week.
23:46SPEAKER- I don't know what Windows 12 is, we're going to be--
23:48SPEAKER- It's an agentic AI, Brad.
23:50SPEAKER- It's gonna, look, hey,
23:53SPEAKERtell me a task you do on your computer.
23:55SPEAKERI'm gonna tell you how Windows 12 can make it better.
23:57SPEAKER- Oh great, good.
23:58SPEAKEROh, didn't you, you were saying before this,
24:00SPEAKERI mean, I don't know that we have a citation for this,
24:02SPEAKERbut you were saying there's like a super early
24:04SPEAKERinsider build of Windows that has a like global
24:08SPEAKERuninstall AI crap button in it?
24:10SPEAKER- Yeah, so if you're on the insider experimental branch,
24:13SPEAKERwhich I don't advise anybody normal to do
24:15SPEAKER'cause it's a pain in the butt,
24:18SPEAKERthere is in build 26300.8553 has some updates buried
24:27SPEAKERabout AI component settings in the system AI components
24:34SPEAKERsubset, which looks like it lets you just uninstall
24:37SPEAKERthe models wholesale, which is cool.
24:41SPEAKER- That sounds promising.
24:43SPEAKER- Yeah, maybe they get the message.
24:45SPEAKER- Let me, sorry.
24:47SPEAKER- Okay, yes, I am verifying here.
24:48SPEAKER26300, I know way more about Windows build numbers
24:51SPEAKERthan I should after the last couple of weeks
24:53SPEAKERtrying to fix my stupid windows,
24:54SPEAKERbut 26300 should be this October's big annual update, 26H2.
25:00SPEAKERSo that sounds like if they do decide
25:02SPEAKERto commit to rolling that out,
25:03SPEAKERthat won't be until later in this year,
25:04SPEAKERbut that sounds positive.
25:06SPEAKERI would hit that button.
25:07SPEAKER- It's not, it wasn't mentioned in patch notes.
25:10SPEAKERSo that sometimes means that things are in flux
25:13SPEAKERand may or may not actually ship, but anyway.
25:16SPEAKER- Would you just blindly click that button,
25:18SPEAKERnot even knowing what it does,
25:19SPEAKERlike not even knowing what you're losing?
25:24SPEAKER- When they put that button in Firefox,
25:25SPEAKERI couldn't click it fast enough.
25:27SPEAKER- Sure, yeah, yeah.
25:29SPEAKER- It's the first thing I do on new computer installs
25:31SPEAKERis I get Firefox open, I hit the leave me alone,
25:34SPEAKERdon't ever show me AI stuff and call it a day.
25:36SPEAKER- Sure, okay, my last question about this Nvidia stuff,
25:40SPEAKERlike what is the scope of their ambitions here?
25:43SPEAKEROr more to the point, like they're making laptops
25:44SPEAKERand mini PCs, which has got to be
25:46SPEAKERthe absolute large majority of the market at this point,
25:50SPEAKERbut do you think this scales to like a big desktop?
25:54SPEAKERDo you think they have ambitions to like take on x86
25:58SPEAKERin the big desktop space as well?
25:59SPEAKERLike do you think they're just trying
26:00SPEAKERto supplant x86 entirely?
26:02SPEAKER- They tried to buy ARM a few years ago.
26:04SPEAKERSo yeah, like I think they look at Apple
26:06SPEAKERowning the entire stack and are kind of jealous,
26:09SPEAKERbut also don't want to make an OS.
26:11SPEAKER- Sure, or a CDU for that matter.
26:12SPEAKERI feel like it is notable here.
26:13SPEAKERLike they're not designing the CPU in house.
26:16SPEAKERIt is MediaTek doing that part.
26:17SPEAKER- Is it, I couldn't find that anywhere, I just assumed.
26:23SPEAKERMy guess is they're looking at the AI gravy train
26:27SPEAKERwhere they're selling the idea of future GPUs now
26:30SPEAKERto people for money, for actual money.
26:32SPEAKERAnd I think that this is the pay,
26:37SPEAKERthis is a way if this whole thing falls apart
26:39SPEAKERto keep our share of that, to keep some share
26:44SPEAKERof overall PC market in a way that they have
26:48SPEAKERon the data center market over the last five years.
26:50SPEAKER- Sure, I can believe that.
26:51SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't know, man.
26:54SPEAKERI feel the whole thing feels weird.
26:57SPEAKER- It's all weird.
26:58SPEAKERI've been wondering for kind of several years now
27:01SPEAKERif we're ever gonna see like big ARM desktops,
27:03SPEAKERlike if that's gonna become a thing.
27:05SPEAKERLike you see a little more ARM stuff
27:08SPEAKERcoming out of like Shenzhen,
27:09SPEAKERlike some of the kind of no-name,
27:11SPEAKERlike these little no-name integrated motherboards
27:13SPEAKERyou see coming out that have like some insane number
27:16SPEAKERof SATA ports on them.
27:17SPEAKERThey're like clearly made as little server type boards.
27:20SPEAKERLike you start seeing some bigger system boards
27:23SPEAKERwith ARM chips rather than x86,
27:24SPEAKERbut it's never gotten that big.
27:27SPEAKERI just, I don't know if that's actually credible or not.
27:29SPEAKER- There's a bunch of interesting,
27:31SPEAKERlike I have some questions,
27:32SPEAKERlike does this support the multi SRIOV,
27:37SPEAKERthe multi target graphics.
27:39SPEAKERSo you could run like,
27:40SPEAKERlike could I run four virtual machines
27:42SPEAKERon one of these machines and output that video
27:44SPEAKERto four different outputs and stuff like that.
27:48SPEAKER- Yeah, so I'm definitely getting out over my skis here
27:50SPEAKER'cause I haven't spent that much time reading about this,
27:52SPEAKERbut one of the complaints I see about ARM in computer space,
27:56SPEAKERnot the like, not the embedded space,
27:58SPEAKERbut the just is the lack of standardization
28:00SPEAKERaround like boot chain and like platform security.
28:04SPEAKERAnd like in the way that x86 has UEFI
28:07SPEAKERand for whatever problems that has,
28:09SPEAKERlike that stuff's pretty well standardized,
28:10SPEAKERlike that the ARM ecosystem for system boards and stuff
28:13SPEAKERjust does not have the level of expected standards
28:17SPEAKERto plug into.
28:19SPEAKER- Well, yeah, 'cause they're all like,
28:20SPEAKERthey're all bespoke pairs basically.
28:22SPEAKERSo yeah, I don't know, like there's,
28:25SPEAKERI think that these are going to be,
28:28SPEAKERI don't wanna say novelty devices
28:29SPEAKER'cause that's not exactly right,
28:30SPEAKERbut these are gonna be specialty computers
28:33SPEAKERfor the foreseeable future.
28:35SPEAKER- Yeah, that's possible.
28:36SPEAKERI'm really curious to see how the market acts towards these
28:40SPEAKERwhen they come out, do we have a release date?
28:43SPEAKER- I don't think Microsoft gave a date.
28:44SPEAKER- Oh, actually, sorry,
28:45SPEAKERthere's just like a big fat notify me button
28:47SPEAKERon the video page for when they come out.
28:50SPEAKER- I think my assumption would be
28:52SPEAKERthat if they're showing it at Computex,
28:53SPEAKERit's gonna come out this year sometime.
28:56SPEAKERThe one thing, so while we're talking about laptops,
28:59SPEAKERI guess we should talk about the Dell XPS 13.
29:02SPEAKER- This is, they're bringing XPS back, which is nice.
29:06SPEAKEREverybody likes XPS.
29:07SPEAKERI had one of those for a little bit.
29:08SPEAKERIt's a nice little laptop.
29:10SPEAKER- Oh, what is their current brand?
29:11SPEAKER- They just called it Dell 13s.
29:13SPEAKER- Oh, wild, I thought XPS was the thing, okay.
29:16SPEAKER- No, well, XPS started out as their,
29:18SPEAKERbefore they bought Alienware, XPS was their gamer brand.
29:21SPEAKERSo like when the first XPS laptop I had
29:24SPEAKERwas one of those giant mid 2000s,
29:27SPEAKERlike 17 inch gaming slab laptops.
29:31SPEAKER- Huh, okay, I always thought XPS was their like think pad
29:34SPEAKERsort of business notebook equivalent, but I guess not.
29:36SPEAKER- Look, XPS can be anything you need it to be, Brad,
29:39SPEAKERthat's the lesson.
29:40SPEAKER- There's a magic of marketing.
29:42SPEAKER- But yeah, so it's an OLED, this looks like the,
29:46SPEAKERI mean, it's too soon for it to be the response
29:48SPEAKERto the MacBook Neo, but it seems like the cancerization,
29:52SPEAKERthe crabification of--
29:54SPEAKER- Carcinization.
29:54SPEAKER- Carcinization, thank you.
29:57SPEAKERCarcinization of laptop design at the low end.
30:02SPEAKERSo basically it's like they've made a device
30:05SPEAKERthat has premium options for mid range priced laptops.
30:10SPEAKERSo 600 bucks, you can get it with Wildcat Lake,
30:14SPEAKERpresumably the $600 one is the Wildcat Lake one
30:16SPEAKERwith eight gigs of RAM.
30:19SPEAKERThey also are gonna offer Panther Lake SKUs,
30:21SPEAKERwhich are the more capable, more cores, bigger GPU, et cetera.
30:26SPEAKERBut yeah, and it's an OLED screen in an aluminum body,
30:32SPEAKERa nice shell, yeah.
30:34SPEAKER- That's for six, 700 bucks,
30:36SPEAKERdepending on if you're a student or not,
30:37SPEAKERbut kind of surprised to see an OLED in there,
30:39SPEAKERbut maybe they're just getting cheap.
30:40SPEAKER- At that size, they're not too expensive,
30:43SPEAKERis my understanding, and you save power,
30:46SPEAKERyou get more power, like it's a choice you make
30:48SPEAKERso you can get more battery life
30:49SPEAKERbecause you don't have the backlight to deal with.
30:51SPEAKER- Yeah, like on the carcinization front,
30:56SPEAKERlike it just kind of makes sense.
30:57SPEAKERI mean, it's cool just to see everything in the space
31:00SPEAKERis getting, I'm trying to think,
31:02SPEAKERwhat are all the attributes, like faster, thinner, cooler?
31:06SPEAKER- Cheap. - Lighter, cheaper.
31:09SPEAKER- Yeah, but like- - Like it's just,
31:10SPEAKERthat's just kind of where the compute has gone,
31:12SPEAKERthat laptops can just be all of these things at once now,
31:15SPEAKERwhich is cool.
31:16SPEAKER- I like, I do really like,
31:18SPEAKER'cause for a long time in the sub $1,000 range,
31:21SPEAKERand especially in the five to $600 range,
31:24SPEAKERyou saw a lot of like plastic frame laptops
31:26SPEAKERthat just don't hold up particularly well to like real use.
31:29SPEAKERSo it's nice that somebody is actually making something
31:32SPEAKERthat seems kind of built to last in that price point,
31:35SPEAKER'cause these are both,
31:36SPEAKERlike this and the Neo are both aluminum frames.
31:38SPEAKERThey'll absorb more abuse
31:41SPEAKERthan your normal plastic frame HP will.
31:46SPEAKERThat's kind of all I have there.
31:47SPEAKERI just thought it was kind of neat, yeah.
31:49SPEAKER- Just real quick, since this is our Wildcat Lake sighting,
31:52SPEAKERI of course was looking frantically
31:54SPEAKERat news coming out of here.
31:56SPEAKERIt seems like there were all kinds
31:57SPEAKERof little Wildcat Lake boxes at this thing.
31:59SPEAKERNothing that would quite fit in the role of a router
32:01SPEAKERfor me personally, but like it's all over the place.
32:04SPEAKERAlthough it sounds like that chip is not cheap.
32:07SPEAKER- I mean, there's always a ramp on those, right?
32:10SPEAKERSo they start out premium.
32:11SPEAKERAnd then as the demand is fulfilled and the supply goes up,
32:15SPEAKERthen you'll start seeing like the Beelinks
32:17SPEAKERand the mini forums and those guys making like small,
32:21SPEAKERsmall machines using those.
32:22SPEAKER- That makes sense, especially since it's on Intel's
32:25SPEAKERnew process.
32:25SPEAKERI'm sure that that's driving costs up even more,
32:28SPEAKERbut yeah, definitely some small like ugly.
32:32SPEAKERI saw some photos of some small ugly looking boxes
32:35SPEAKERwith not a lot of ports on them,
32:37SPEAKERwhich is kind of exactly what I'm looking for there.
32:40SPEAKERCan I just manifest really fast?
32:41SPEAKER- Yeah, hit me.
32:42SPEAKER- Can I just, I don't normally do this,
32:44SPEAKERbut I'm just going to put this out in the universe.
32:46SPEAKER- Do your a bit.
32:46SPEAKER- And see if it will happen.
32:48SPEAKERIs this like the Oprah thing?
32:50SPEAKER- Is this the secret?
32:52SPEAKER- Yeah, this is the secret.
32:53SPEAKERYou just have to, you say the thing that you want
32:55SPEAKERand then capitalism provides.
32:57SPEAKER- Okay, great.
32:58SPEAKERWell, so I've been digging.
32:59SPEAKERThere's like six Wildcat Lake SKUs or whatever.
33:01SPEAKERIt's the Core 3305 is my object of desire.
33:04SPEAKER- Core 3305, what is that one?
33:06SPEAKERWhat's the defining characteristics there?
33:08SPEAKER- Because the options they ship on this thing
33:10SPEAKERare a number of PCORs.
33:12SPEAKERA lot of them have either one or two PCORs.
33:14SPEAKERThere's also the NPU, which is the AI processor
33:17SPEAKERthat is completely useless in a small server router thing.
33:20SPEAKERThere's also a number of graphics cores.
33:23SPEAKERSo Core 3305 is the one with both PCORs, not one.
33:27SPEAKERNo NPU and only minimal, like the smallest GPU possible.
33:33SPEAKEROkay, that's the one.
33:35SPEAKERAnd I'm worried that that's not going to happen.
33:37SPEAKERI'm worried it's going to be the 304 on everything,
33:40SPEAKERwhich only has one PCOR and I think does have the NPU in it,
33:42SPEAKERwhich is just wasted silicon for this kind of thing.
33:46SPEAKERLike I want maximal generic compute with no AI.
33:49SPEAKERAnd I think, 'cause even the one graphics core
33:51SPEAKERis going to get you all the quick sync transcode, right?
33:54SPEAKER- Yeah, it should.
33:55SPEAKERIt depends on how many streams you want to do and all that.
33:57SPEAKER- Yeah, I guess, sure.
33:58SPEAKER- Also if it's a router,
33:59SPEAKERyou're not doing quick sync transcode on it.
34:01SPEAKER- No, I'm thinking of other people
34:02SPEAKERwho are going to want to use this
34:03SPEAKERas like a little NAS box or something like that.
34:06SPEAKER- Yeah, I want the Uppsal E-Cores version of this.
34:08SPEAKERI just want a bazillion E-Cores,
34:10SPEAKERlike 36 E-Cores running at a half a watt a piece.
34:13SPEAKER- Yeah.
34:14SPEAKER- Give me that good juice.
34:15SPEAKER- Not to derail this too much.
34:17SPEAKERDid you see Intel is dumping E-Cores?
34:19SPEAKER- What?
34:20SPEAKER- They're moving, this is a ways off.
34:22SPEAKERThis is like, I'm trying to think it's Nova Lake.
34:26SPEAKERAnd then I think two more generations before this happens.
34:30SPEAKERSo it's going to be like in the 2030s before this happens,
34:32SPEAKERbut they are, and this is in like released materials.
34:35SPEAKERThey are in the opening stages of unifying.
34:37SPEAKERLike I think they actually call it
34:38SPEAKERlike the unified core initiative
34:40SPEAKERwhere they are going back to one type of core.
34:44SPEAKERThey're dumping big little is what I'm saying.
34:46SPEAKERLike they're getting rid of the big and little core model.
34:48SPEAKERThey're just going back to one core.
34:50SPEAKER- I mean, it kind of makes sense.
34:50SPEAKERSome of those Zeons that are all Uppsal E-Cores
34:53SPEAKERare wildly popular in data centers
34:55SPEAKERjust because it makes thread scheduling and shit easier.
34:57SPEAKER- And so the thing from the little bit I've read,
34:59SPEAKERthe thing that happened is the E-Cores got so good
35:02SPEAKERthat it kind of didn't make sense
35:02SPEAKERto keep them split out anymore.
35:04SPEAKERThat like they were getting to the point
35:05SPEAKERwhere the E-Cores were basically the P-Cores
35:07SPEAKERfrom the previous generation.
35:08SPEAKER- Yeah.
35:09SPEAKER- So basically they've just gotten to the point
35:10SPEAKERwhere they're just going to do one core again,
35:13SPEAKERwhich means they'll start shipping AVX-512, hopefully,
35:16SPEAKERwhich is anyway, I'm rambling about things I might buy
35:19SPEAKERin six or seven years, but.
35:21SPEAKER- That's exciting.
35:22SPEAKERI mean, maybe in 10 years, we'll look back on this
35:25SPEAKERas the unnecessarily complicated times
35:28SPEAKERand be like, oh yeah. - I hope so.
35:29SPEAKERI sure hope so.
35:30SPEAKER- All the cores are on one die.
35:33SPEAKERThis is really good stuff.
35:35SPEAKER- Fingers crossed.
35:37SPEAKER- Let's see, do you want to talk about,
35:39SPEAKERokay, handhelds are laptop adjacent.
35:41SPEAKERLet's do that next.
35:42SPEAKER- All right.
35:43SPEAKER- Intel rolled out the ArcG3 Extreme,
35:46SPEAKERwhich is their handheld chip, it seems like.
35:49SPEAKER- Yeah, you keep up with this stuff way more than,
35:52SPEAKERlike I still barely know what Strix Halo is
35:54SPEAKERor all the Ryzen Z2 stuff,
35:56SPEAKERso hopefully you can give some context here.
35:58SPEAKER- Yeah, so Z2 Extreme is the Ryzen,
36:01SPEAKERthey announced it at CES last year,
36:03SPEAKERand it's basically the small APU style chip
36:08SPEAKERthat's designed for low resolution handhelds specifically,
36:12SPEAKERor low to mid resolution, like up to 10 AP probably.
36:15SPEAKERSo it's RDNA 3.5 cores, I think.
36:18SPEAKERAnd basically the naming on the Ryzen Z2 line
36:24SPEAKERis as complicated and nightmarish as anything you've seen.
36:28SPEAKER- That's a big part of why I don't know anything about it
36:30SPEAKERis 'cause there's like,
36:31SPEAKERlike the names are not necessarily descriptive
36:33SPEAKERof the capabilities 'cause they include
36:35SPEAKERlike different generations
36:36SPEAKERwithin seemingly similar products, right?
36:38SPEAKER- Yeah, so they changed Zen versions
36:42SPEAKERand which version of the GPU from one to the other,
36:46SPEAKERand it's confusing and unnecessary, and it's bad naming.
36:50SPEAKERThe TLDR is that the Z2 Extreme is what's in the high end,
36:54SPEAKERlike $1,500 handhelds these days.
36:57SPEAKERAnd the Z2 Regular is basically the same as the Z1 Extreme,
37:02SPEAKERwhich was in like the original ROG Strix, the ROG Ally,
37:07SPEAKERnot the Ally X and not the Xbox one, the Xbox branded one.
37:11SPEAKER- And all of this is newer
37:13SPEAKERthan what's in the Steam Deck by a fair amount, right?
37:15SPEAKER- Yeah, the Steam Deck is RDNA 2, it's old.
37:17SPEAKERThe Steam Deck is old.
37:20SPEAKERBut like, again, it's one of those things
37:22SPEAKERwhere the Steam Deck performance target
37:25SPEAKERis we wanna run current gen console games at 800p,
37:29SPEAKER1280 by 800, and turns out you can do that
37:34SPEAKERon pretty old desktop hardware APUs at this point.
37:38SPEAKERSo this is the ArcG3 Extreme, it's based on Panther Lake.
37:44SPEAKERIt's Tom Peterson over at Intel,
37:47SPEAKERwho's the Intel fellow who does graphic stuff for them,
37:50SPEAKERdescribed it as a GPU with a CPU attached.
37:53SPEAKERSo it's Jensen's ultimate dream of,
37:57SPEAKERwe just make the video cards so big
37:58SPEAKERthat you put the CPU inside it, right?
38:03SPEAKER- So the top line on this ArcG3 Extreme
38:08SPEAKERis that it basically outperforms
38:11SPEAKERthe current top-end Ryzen at the same TDP,
38:15SPEAKERor you can get the equivalent performance
38:17SPEAKERat a much lower TDP, which means you get
38:18SPEAKERbetter battery life and all that stuff.
38:20SPEAKER- That's good.
38:21SPEAKER- The MSI Claw 8X EX AI+ is the lead SKU.
38:27SPEAKER- Why would you put AI+ in your handheld name?
38:32SPEAKER- Look, everybody, well, it's because the Microsoft stuff
38:35SPEAKERincludes the upscaling on the Xbox layer now
38:40SPEAKERthat doesn't take any of the vectors or anything,
38:42SPEAKERso it's kind of shit.
38:43SPEAKER- Yeah, but you can remove that from your product name,
38:45SPEAKERis what I mean.
38:45SPEAKERThe name can change at any time
38:47SPEAKERregardless of what's in the product.
38:49SPEAKER- Do you wanna know why they did that?
38:50SPEAKERIt's 'cause that lets them get Microsoft Co-Pilot Plus
38:53SPEAKERdollars to market it, probably.
38:55SPEAKER- Okay, okay, 'cause the worm is turning, to be clear.
38:58SPEAKER- People are anti-AI, it turns out.
39:00SPEAKER- But I mean, at the corporate level, on the ground,
39:02SPEAKERin the audience or the consumer base,
39:05SPEAKERthat's been clear for a while.
39:07SPEAKERWhat I mean is, you're seeing even Xbox executives
39:12SPEAKERtalk about scaling back some of the AI stuff
39:15SPEAKERthey're putting in Xbox and Windows-related products,
39:17SPEAKERand there's a lot of corporate leadership, I feel like,
39:21SPEAKERand decision-making that is clearly starting to pivot
39:24SPEAKERaround the extreme anti-AI sentiment.
39:27SPEAKER- I mean, when Goldman Sachs is coming out and saying,
39:30SPEAKER"Hey, we're worried about this market
39:31SPEAKER"because the people that have the highest valuations
39:35SPEAKER"don't have any revenue or any hope
39:37SPEAKER"of seeing positive profit in coming years,"
39:41SPEAKERthat's a bad sign for that market.
39:43SPEAKER- Or as I was listening to a more businessy podcast
39:46SPEAKERabout this the other day, that some of the companies
39:48SPEAKERlike Anthropic are making money now,
39:51SPEAKERbut then now we are in the next phase of that story
39:53SPEAKERwhere the people paying the money are now starting to say,
39:56SPEAKER"You know, maybe for a variety of reasons
39:58SPEAKER"this is not actually worth the money
39:59SPEAKER"we are paying for it."
40:01SPEAKERIt's like, whether it's like,
40:02SPEAKER"Oh, the output that we're getting
40:03SPEAKER"is not as good as the equivalent human work,"
40:06SPEAKERor, "It's costing us more than those humans did,"
40:09SPEAKERor whatever, there's some pretty telling
40:11SPEAKERexecutive quotes out there recently.
40:13SPEAKER- Yeah.
40:14SPEAKER- But anyway, whatever.
40:15SPEAKERThat is a side, that's a digression,
40:18SPEAKERbut it's good to see more mobile GPUs out there.
40:21SPEAKERI'm sure this will be affordable, right?
40:26SPEAKER- What is affordable, Brad?
40:28SPEAKERWhat does affordable really mean?
40:29SPEAKER- I mean, you're right.
40:31SPEAKERActually, in a world where the Steam Deck is now,
40:34SPEAKERthe good Steam Deck, to be clear,
40:36SPEAKERlike the-- - Terabyte model, OLED.
40:38SPEAKER- Entry-level OLED is like 679 now, roughly, I think.
40:42SPEAKER- Yeah.
40:43SPEAKER- But the top-end one is $1,000.
40:45SPEAKERIn a world where there's a $1,000 Steam Deck now,
40:47SPEAKERthis thing, we don't have a final price,
40:50SPEAKERbut there's speculation that's like 1,500, right?
40:53SPEAKER- Yeah, PC World said they expect it to be 1,500 bucks,
40:55SPEAKERwhich I think was Adam.
40:56SPEAKERThat article wasn't bylined, I don't think,
40:58SPEAKERbut it's good, which isn't outside the realm,
41:03SPEAKERlike the Lenovo Go 2 was in that same ballpark,
41:07SPEAKERthe Xbox, the ASUS ROG Ally Xbox edition,
41:13SPEAKERthe nice one is like 1,300 bucks.
41:15SPEAKERSo yeah, it's gonna be expensive.
41:19SPEAKER- Yeah, it's good to see handheld-tier chips
41:23SPEAKERbeing pushed forward, and more competition, too.
41:24SPEAKERLike, it's good to see Intel now
41:26SPEAKERbeing competitive in the space.
41:28SPEAKERI'm not a huge handheld guy,
41:29SPEAKERbut that's exciting for people who like handhelds,
41:32SPEAKERthe affordability aside.
41:34SPEAKER- I think the, yeah, that's the TLDR,
41:39SPEAKERis that, hey, with this, you get a modern GPU,
41:42SPEAKER'cause the problem with a lot of these handhelds
41:43SPEAKERis the RDNA 3 and 3.5 stuff.
41:45SPEAKERYou still don't get things like ray tracing,
41:48SPEAKERand you don't get modern frame gen and all that stuff.
41:52SPEAKER- That's the other thing I was gonna ask,
41:53SPEAKERis the current Intel graphics are very competitive
41:56SPEAKERon feature set, right?
41:57SPEAKER- They're pretty good, yeah.
41:58SPEAKERThere's occasional hiccups,
42:00SPEAKERbut they're doing a really good job of addressing them.
42:02SPEAKERI wanna say, I've got a game came out earlier this year
42:06SPEAKERthat was not, that just actively blocked the ARC GPUs
42:10SPEAKERfrom working, because they did a name check.
42:13SPEAKER- Yes, I know what you're talking about.
42:15SPEAKERI can't remember the game.
42:16SPEAKER- Yeah, it was a game out of China, I think.
42:18SPEAKERI can't remember.
42:20SPEAKERBut then Intel reached out to them,
42:21SPEAKERand they got it fixed within, like,
42:23SPEAKERbefore the first patch, it was working again, so.
42:27SPEAKER- And I've played, I set up an ARC-B 580 GPU, or 570 GPU,
42:35SPEAKERand played games for hours and hours,
42:37SPEAKERand didn't find any, like,
42:39SPEAKERit was a totally fine experience for the 200,
42:42SPEAKERfor a video card that costs $300.
42:44SPEAKER- Yeah, that's good, yeah, that's cool.
42:46SPEAKERThere should be some cheap stuff out there.
42:49SPEAKER- Yeah, speaking of cheap stuff,
42:50SPEAKERthere was some monitor stuff that happened
42:52SPEAKERat Computex this year.
42:54SPEAKERThese aren't cheap monitors, I'm sorry.
42:56SPEAKERI was debating whether to question your segue or not.
43:00SPEAKER- Well, okay, so the overall trend this year on OLED
43:04SPEAKERhas been that there are a lot that we're starting
43:06SPEAKERto see under $500 for 27-inch OLEDs on the reg,
43:10SPEAKERespecially a 1440p in 1080.
43:12SPEAKER- I am very excited that my chosen monitor dimensions
43:17SPEAKERseem to be the one that everybody is pouring all the effort
43:20SPEAKERinto, 27-inch 1440p is kind of my sweet spot
43:23SPEAKERfor the time being.
43:24SPEAKER- It's funny 'cause I realized that I have, you know,
43:26SPEAKERI have a 4K monitor on my desktop,
43:28SPEAKERand the scaling that I run it at is actually 1440p,
43:32SPEAKERis effectively 1440p, yeah.
43:34SPEAKER- That's, it was an accident.
43:36SPEAKERI bought these monitors sight unseen during the pandemic,
43:40SPEAKERbut that's actually the reason is that in both Linux
43:43SPEAKERand Windows, this just turns out to be,
43:45SPEAKERthis is about the limit of native rendering.
43:49SPEAKERWithout scaling, this is about as small as I can get
43:51SPEAKERand see everything clearly, so I'm just kinda,
43:53SPEAKERand it has the nice side benefit of not as many pixels
43:56SPEAKERto push when you're playing games,
43:57SPEAKERwhich means higher frame rate.
43:59SPEAKER- That does help.
44:00SPEAKERI have to keep a 4K monitor
44:01SPEAKERto capture a 4K video occasionally.
44:03SPEAKER- Oh, sure.
44:04SPEAKERYou could do a virtual resolution and,
44:07SPEAKERalthough I don't know if that would hit,
44:08SPEAKERthat might be adding a variable
44:10SPEAKERthat might affect performance in a way
44:12SPEAKERthat you wouldn't wanna deal with, I don't know,
44:14SPEAKERbut you can, you could define a virtual resolution
44:16SPEAKERand render it at that and capture it.
44:19SPEAKER- But anyway, at the time I bought this,
44:22SPEAKERI didn't know that you could do that.
44:23SPEAKERI don't think, or maybe it wasn't possible, but--
44:25SPEAKER- Anyways, sorry for the digression,
44:27SPEAKERbut you're right, Alienware has like a 350, I think,
44:30SPEAKERlike a $349 OLED at those dimensions now.
44:34SPEAKER- Yeah, so you're seeing single panel OLEDs,
44:37SPEAKERwhich aren't as bright as the dual panel OLEDs
44:40SPEAKERin the $300 to $500 range all the time,
44:43SPEAKERand at that, like I said,
44:44SPEAKERthe 27-inch, 28-inch 1440p range.
44:49SPEAKERBut Samsung unveiled their first 4K 360 panel,
44:55SPEAKERwhich is a 32-inch panel, runs OLED, yeah.
44:59SPEAKER- Oh, okay.
45:01SPEAKER- Runs 1080p at 680 if you wanna do the quad pumped.
45:06SPEAKERSo like most of the newer 4K panels
45:08SPEAKERwill let you run the half resolution at double speed.
45:14SPEAKERI mean, I guess it's technically quarter resolution,
45:16SPEAKERbut you know what I mean, half on either side.
45:18SPEAKER- Yeah.
45:20SPEAKER- Probably late this year or early next,
45:21SPEAKERand it's gonna be really expensive, the Samsung panel.
45:23SPEAKERThey haven't announced any product partners yet.
45:25SPEAKERI mean, obviously Samsung has
45:27SPEAKERa high-end enthusiast gaming monitor business
45:30SPEAKERwith the G series, so they'll have something for sure.
45:35SPEAKERBut presumably, most of the 4K panels these days
45:40SPEAKERare 240 at max, so in the OLED space, so this is exciting.
45:45SPEAKER- That's cool.
45:47SPEAKERYou put down this thing about the Hisense mini-LED monitor,
45:50SPEAKERwhich I was excited to see.
45:52SPEAKER- RGB mini-LED, we should be clear, that's the...
45:54SPEAKERSo RGB mini-LED is the new hotness in TVs this year.
45:57SPEAKER- Okay.
45:58SPEAKER- I'll just explain very briefly what it is.
46:00SPEAKERYou know what mini-LED is?
46:02SPEAKERMini-LED is what my now three-year-old Hisense TV is.
46:06SPEAKERIt's the current evolution
46:07SPEAKERof plain old LED backlights in TVs.
46:10SPEAKER- It's just the backlight.
46:11SPEAKERThere's a whole buttload of LED backlights,
46:14SPEAKERbut they're all white, right?
46:15SPEAKER- So when we went from fluorescent light bulbs
46:17SPEAKERto LEDs for backlights on LCDs many years ago,
46:22SPEAKERI think first it was one giant LED, right,
46:23SPEAKERor at least one.
46:24SPEAKER- Or it was a light, it was a strip of LEDs
46:28SPEAKERthat fed into a diffuse medium
46:30SPEAKERthat would backlight the entire thing,
46:31SPEAKERjust like the fluorescent light.
46:32SPEAKER- It could only be addressed as one giant backlight.
46:35SPEAKER- Yeah, and then we had...
46:37SPEAKER- So then we went to local dimming
46:39SPEAKERwas the next phase of that,
46:40SPEAKERwhere they started breaking it up into large zones
46:43SPEAKERthat could be controlled separately,
46:44SPEAKERand then we got the Mini-LED, which is what we're on now,
46:47SPEAKERwhere year by year, the number of discrete LEDs
46:51SPEAKERthat can be turned on and off individually
46:53SPEAKERhave kept getting smaller and smaller,
46:54SPEAKERand they've been cramming more and more of them on there.
46:56SPEAKER- Makes sense.
46:57SPEAKER- Which is, again, what I have,
46:58SPEAKERwhere basically you can just control different parts
47:01SPEAKERof the backlight independently
47:02SPEAKERto give yourself more contrast and blah, blah, blah.
47:05SPEAKER- It ends up with things like the credits not looking weird
47:08SPEAKERbecause the black parts of the thing are all turned off,
47:10SPEAKERbut the font doesn't show yet.
47:12SPEAKER- Yeah, that's called haloing,
47:13SPEAKERwhere the quote-unquote resolution of the backlight
47:16SPEAKERis too low to be able to turn off enough backlights.
47:19SPEAKERYou basically, if you've got white text
47:21SPEAKERon a black background,
47:22SPEAKERyou can't turn off enough LEDs small enough around the text,
47:25SPEAKERso you get some kind of bleed around there.
47:27SPEAKERThere's exactly one place
47:29SPEAKERwhere I really regularly say that on my TV,
47:31SPEAKERwhich is the little throbber spinning thing
47:33SPEAKERon the Xbox dashboard.
47:34SPEAKER- Oh, that's funny.
47:36SPEAKER- I see it occasionally other places as well,
47:38SPEAKERbut that's the one place I see it consistently
47:40SPEAKERanytime the Xbox can't load something in fast enough,
47:42SPEAKERand it's just like spinning a little thing
47:44SPEAKERin the middle of the screen.
47:45SPEAKERYou can see like a big halo around that, anyway.
47:48SPEAKERSo RGB Mini LED,
47:51SPEAKERcurrently all the Mini LED backlights are white LEDs,
47:54SPEAKERor actually in a lot of cases,
47:55SPEAKERI was doing a lot of reading about this
47:57SPEAKER'cause I've been interested in the TV tech as well.
47:59SPEAKERIn a lot of cases,
48:00SPEAKERthey're blue LEDs that are passing through a filter,
48:03SPEAKERa light filter to turn them white.
48:06SPEAKER- 'Cause blues are brighter.
48:07SPEAKER- I think that's probably why, I would assume.
48:11SPEAKERRGB Mini LED is making all those backlights
48:14SPEAKERnatively red, green, and blue.
48:16SPEAKERSo basically it's replacing each white backlight
48:19SPEAKERor blue filter backlight with a three pixel
48:22SPEAKERor a three LED RGB array,
48:26SPEAKERwhich has some advantages,
48:28SPEAKERactually a fair number of advantages.
48:30SPEAKERYou remove that filter,
48:31SPEAKERlike on the ones where you're going from blue to white,
48:33SPEAKERwhich like that absorbs some of the light.
48:35SPEAKERYou know, like that's not ideal.
48:37SPEAKERSo now you're directly shining the colored backlight
48:40SPEAKERthrough the LCD screen.
48:42SPEAKERThe biggest like front of box benefit
48:45SPEAKERI keep seeing people touting is color gamut.
48:47SPEAKERLike there is, so basically like every TV manufacturer
48:51SPEAKERbasically is shipping an RGB Mini LED this year.
48:54SPEAKERAnd one of them at least is claiming
48:56SPEAKERthat they are getting to a hundred percent of,
48:59SPEAKERwhat is it, BT 2020, I think is the, or REC 2020.
49:03SPEAKER- Oh, the full, yeah, the, yeah.
49:05SPEAKER- Which apparently is like that color space
49:08SPEAKERsupposedly covers like every color that humans,
49:10SPEAKERthe human eye can see.
49:11SPEAKERSo like, like all of these TVs are claiming like 99%
49:16SPEAKERor a hundred percent 2020 coverage.
49:18SPEAKER- That's cool.
49:19SPEAKER- Which is like, apparently like by far the widest gamut
49:22SPEAKERin the screen technology so far.
49:25SPEAKERThat's the big advantage.
49:26SPEAKER- So that means we need new video formats
49:27SPEAKERis what you're saying.
49:28SPEAKER- Maybe, yeah.
49:29SPEAKERThere's always gotta be a new standard chase,
49:31SPEAKERbut good news.
49:32SPEAKERThe other advantage of this is Mini LEDs
49:36SPEAKERhave already had like a huge brightness lead on OLEDs,
49:39SPEAKERlike huge.
49:40SPEAKERAnd this is apparently just gonna extend that lead
49:42SPEAKEReven further because now you're removing that layer
49:44SPEAKERin between the backlight and the screen.
49:46SPEAKERSo it's able to emit more light.
49:50SPEAKERSo like, this is a pretty promising technology
49:54SPEAKERbecause you're basically getting like wider color gamut
49:56SPEAKERthan OLED and no burn-in concerns.
49:59SPEAKER- Yeah, and you avoid the micro led issues,
50:03SPEAKERwhich are that the TVs didn't look actually very good
50:05SPEAKERwhen they started making them.
50:06SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't know what's up with micro led.
50:08SPEAKERIt feels like that.
50:10SPEAKERI feel like we're at this point in that micro led cycle
50:12SPEAKERwhere instead of anticipating that it's going to happen,
50:15SPEAKERwe're now starting to suspect that it never will happen.
50:18SPEAKER- I mean, it's,
50:21SPEAKERthe people were showing micro led TVs at CES this year
50:24SPEAKERand the response from people who saw them in person
50:27SPEAKERwas universally tepid.
50:28SPEAKER- Interesting.
50:29SPEAKER- But also sometimes that happens.
50:31SPEAKERLike if you remember the image persistence
50:33SPEAKERon the early OLEDs was like there was mad ghosting on those.
50:37SPEAKERAnd people were like, I don't know about this.
50:39SPEAKERThe color, the black looks really nice,
50:40SPEAKERbut everything else is really fuzzy.
50:41SPEAKER- Stuff always gets better over time.
50:43SPEAKERBut basically like, this is a pretty promising technology
50:47SPEAKER'cause it's got, again, some pretty clear advantages
50:50SPEAKERover OLED and like the contrast is pretty damn close.
50:53SPEAKER- Yeah.
50:54SPEAKER- So, but, but-
50:55SPEAKER- Well, and you don't have to stack two panels
50:57SPEAKERand like the stuff that they're doing now
50:58SPEAKERto make OLEDs bright enough.
50:59SPEAKER- Yeah, like some of the nits figures
51:04SPEAKERyou're seeing on some of these TVs,
51:05SPEAKERthey're talking, you're seeing people talk about
51:07SPEAKERlike 10,000 nits and some like completely insane
51:10SPEAKEReye searing brightness levels.
51:12SPEAKER- I mean, are people playing games in their backyard
51:15SPEAKERin Arizona or something?
51:16SPEAKERWhat do you need 10,000 nits for?
51:17SPEAKERThat's insane.
51:19SPEAKER- So Hisense is shipping an RGB mini led monitor in China.
51:23SPEAKER- Okay.
51:24SPEAKER- That they announced here.
51:25SPEAKERIt's gonna be based on currency conversion.
51:27SPEAKERI looked up about $1,500, which is not cheap.
51:30SPEAKER- Seems right.
51:31SPEAKER- But, and there's a couple other companies,
51:32SPEAKERlike there's a company called HKC.
51:34SPEAKERI was looking on monitors unboxed yesterday
51:36SPEAKERthat they showed a RGB mini led monitor
51:40SPEAKERback at CES earlier this year.
51:42SPEAKERSo this seems like it might be a thing.
51:44SPEAKERI've been wondering for a while
51:45SPEAKERwhy there aren't more mini led monitors out there.
51:47SPEAKERLike this is of great interest to me
51:49SPEAKERas somebody who is on a computer about 95% of the time
51:54SPEAKERdoing like Windows productivity stuff, not games.
51:56SPEAKER- So the reason, my bet is the reason
51:59SPEAKERthey're not doing this on monitors
52:00SPEAKERis 'cause TVs have a real benefit to the enhanced brightness
52:03SPEAKER'cause if you're in a room with a lot of glare,
52:05SPEAKERgetting up to like 3000 nits makes sense.
52:10SPEAKERAnd the monitor situations are usually much more controlled.
52:13SPEAKER- Yeah.
52:14SPEAKER- So glare is less of an issue.
52:15SPEAKER- Yeah, and I'll be curious to see if this catches on,
52:17SPEAKERbut like something that is in the ballpark
52:19SPEAKERof OLED in quality or really again on the color gamut,
52:22SPEAKERlike beyond OLED, but doesn't have burn-in concerns
52:25SPEAKERis of great interest to me.
52:27SPEAKER- Well, and that you can do
52:29SPEAKERthe higher refresh rates on is exciting.
52:31SPEAKERLike this is, this sounds, this is really cool.
52:33SPEAKERThis is good news.
52:34SPEAKERI didn't know this was coming, that's rad.
52:35SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm really curious to see how those TVs review
52:38SPEAKERwhen they come out soon.
52:40SPEAKER- We have one last section.
52:42SPEAKERI'm gonna call it the brown section.
52:43SPEAKER- Oh boy, the brown node, no.
52:46SPEAKER- No, the brown node.
52:47SPEAKER- Definitely not, okay.
52:48SPEAKER- The brown node.
52:50SPEAKER- Yep, I've got a few of these on my machine.
52:53SPEAKERGod, speaking of, I saw a thing the other day,
52:56SPEAKERit was like a TikTok video
52:58SPEAKERwhere somebody got into somebody else's car
53:01SPEAKERwith like a huge beefed up subwoofer
53:03SPEAKERand I haven't seen one of these in a long time
53:04SPEAKERand they were like, see if you can play this.
53:07SPEAKERAnd I was expecting it to be like the,
53:09SPEAKERhey, I'm gonna soil myself node.
53:11SPEAKERAnd the guy was just sitting there kind of shaking
53:13SPEAKERfrom the amount of, anyway, loud stereo's weird, man.
53:17SPEAKER- Yeah, true, sure.
53:20SPEAKEROkay, so Noctua, makers of things brown,
53:28SPEAKERannounced a couple of new products recently.
53:31SPEAKERThe first one is that they're kind of dipping their toes
53:34SPEAKERinto liquid cooling.
53:35SPEAKER- Yeah, there was like some hubbub around this.
53:37SPEAKERThey kind of pre-announced it before the show.
53:40SPEAKER- It was part of the pre-Computex news dump, right?
53:43SPEAKER- But the details on the actual product
53:45SPEAKERwere just revealed this week.
53:46SPEAKERBut so there is an AI, okay.
53:50SPEAKERBefore the show, everybody was like,
53:51SPEAKERoh, Noctua's getting into liquid cooling.
53:52SPEAKERThey're shipping an AIO finally.
53:54SPEAKERAIO is hard to say.
53:56SPEAKER- A-I-A-I-O? - A-I-A-I-O.
53:59SPEAKER- Old McShoemaker had a farm, A-I-A-I-O, yeah.
54:03SPEAKER- It turns out that Ace Tech is making
54:07SPEAKERthe actual liquid cooling part of this product
54:09SPEAKERand Noctua is putting Noctua fans on it
54:11SPEAKERand apparently they have also done some,
54:14SPEAKERlike they say they've done their own pass on this thing
54:17SPEAKERto add, I'm trying to find what was the actual-
54:21SPEAKER- Basically they made the pump quieter.
54:22SPEAKER- Yeah, they basically have done some extra,
54:26SPEAKERan integrated mass damper is what this is.
54:30SPEAKERA triple layer cover with an integrated mass damper
54:32SPEAKERdesigned to reduce pump vibration and noise.
54:34SPEAKERIt's basically like Noctua's like insane over engineered
54:39SPEAKERquest for ultimate quiet basically.
54:41SPEAKERBut the point is like this is apparently
54:44SPEAKERa common Ace Tech AIO platform that's not unique
54:47SPEAKERto this product so and probably is available
54:50SPEAKERmaybe cheaper elsewhere without the Noctua premium,
54:52SPEAKERI don't know.
54:53SPEAKER- So yeah, I was gonna say Ace Tech makes
54:55SPEAKERliquid AIO designs and then sells them
54:57SPEAKERto other companies to rebadge and to tart up
55:00SPEAKERwith LEDs and screens and stuff.
55:04SPEAKERI wanna say like almost everybody that you're buying,
55:07SPEAKERalmost every cooler you're buying
55:09SPEAKERis a rebadged Ace Tech cooler at this point.
55:11SPEAKER- Really? - Yeah.
55:12SPEAKER- Somebody on, I should have asked,
55:15SPEAKERI think it was Mike B or somebody on our Discord
55:17SPEAKERmentioned that Ace Tech is the holder of a lot of patents.
55:21SPEAKER- Yep. - And I went and looked,
55:22SPEAKERI found a list where they, on their site,
55:24SPEAKERthey list like dozens if not hundreds of patent numbers.
55:28SPEAKER- Well, that's not, I mean, that doesn't mean anything.
55:30SPEAKER- Maybe not, but like the implications seem to be
55:33SPEAKERthat maybe they are so widespread
55:35SPEAKERbecause other people can't make what they're making.
55:37SPEAKER- It's entirely possible that this is like
55:39SPEAKERa Cherry MX situation where they have the market
55:42SPEAKERfor as long as the patent lasts.
55:43SPEAKER- Right.
55:44SPEAKER- When I look at their DIY partners list
55:47SPEAKERon the Ace Tech page, it's EVGA, Fractal, Leon Lee,
55:50SPEAKERMSI, NZXT, Phanteks, Razer, Asus, something Nitro,
55:56SPEAKERI don't know what that one is, Sapphire Toxic,
55:59SPEAKERoh, Sapphire Nitro, Sapphire Toxic, Team Team Group,
56:02SPEAKERThermal Right, Trix, like XPG, they're all of the big,
56:08SPEAKERexcept for Arctic are on this list.
56:14SPEAKERAnd it may just be that Arctic
56:15SPEAKERis too small to be on the list.
56:18SPEAKERYeah, so...
56:20SPEAKER- All right, well, Ace Tech dominance, I guess.
56:22SPEAKER- Yeah, Ace Tech owns a huge chunk of the market.
56:24SPEAKERSo like making their pumps quieter is a good thing.
56:28SPEAKERTheir pumps are, I mean, realistically,
56:32SPEAKERI usually run my pumps at about 40 to 60% of full speed,
56:36SPEAKERjust for noise reasons.
56:39SPEAKERBut if they've done stuff to, if they've worked
56:40SPEAKERwith Ace Tech to do stuff to make the pumps quieter,
56:42SPEAKERthat's dope, that's a good point.
56:44SPEAKER- Yeah, that's not a bad thing.
56:45SPEAKERAlthough this thing is not cheap.
56:47SPEAKERThey only announced prices in euros,
56:49SPEAKERbut the 360 millimeter model based on conversion
56:53SPEAKERis about $290.
56:55SPEAKERThe 420 is about $326.
56:58SPEAKERSo like we talked about, was it two weeks ago
57:00SPEAKERwe did the liquid cooling episode, like the Arctic's,
57:03SPEAKERI mean, I only know Arctic
57:04SPEAKER'cause that's what I've been looking at,
57:05SPEAKERbut those are like 75 to $85 to like still under 100
57:10SPEAKERfor even the big one in this category.
57:13SPEAKERSo these are not cheap.
57:14SPEAKER- Yeah, I wonder, I mean, there's a fairly big market
57:18SPEAKERin people buying another AIO
57:20SPEAKERand then putting Noctua fans on it.
57:22SPEAKERSo it may be that it's priced accordingly.
57:25SPEAKERI don't know.
57:26SPEAKERI mean, I think Noctua demands a premium
57:28SPEAKERjust because of the way they,
57:30SPEAKERlike they have maybe the best brand
57:33SPEAKERin cooling in the PC space, but yeah.
57:38SPEAKERAnd I didn't, the thing I didn't see is are the fans,
57:40SPEAKERare they doing, 'cause Noctua does black fans
57:43SPEAKERand then they also do brown.
57:45SPEAKERIt looks like they're selling these with the brown fans,
57:47SPEAKERwhich is good.
57:48SPEAKER- Yes, the product shots at Computex are all the brown fans.
57:51SPEAKERDid you see, I saw somebody linked recently,
57:53SPEAKERthey put up a whole ass, like very detailed blog
57:56SPEAKERabout why the black versions of their stuff
57:58SPEAKERlag the brown ones so much.
58:00SPEAKER- Oh no, I didn't see that.
58:01SPEAKER- And it's because they do an insane amount
58:03SPEAKERof like materials testing because the black plastic
58:05SPEAKERhas different sort of like flexibility,
58:09SPEAKERlike the brittleness, like the acoustic properties,
58:12SPEAKERlike the whole thing, they have to like retest everything
58:14SPEAKERwith these slightly different materials
58:16SPEAKERto make sure it lives up to their standards.
58:21SPEAKERSo anyway, this is premium, like this is probably.
58:27SPEAKER- Yeah, and so they're selling 360, 240 and 420
58:32SPEAKERmillimeter versions, so the 420 is gonna be enormous.
58:37SPEAKERThey're using different fans on it.
58:39SPEAKER- Yeah, they're all the NF, A12 and A14,
58:43SPEAKERwhich I see mentioned here and there.
58:44SPEAKERI think that's like those are the static pressure ones,
58:47SPEAKERif I'm not mistaken, like you want the,
58:50SPEAKERI forget what the airflow properties are
58:52SPEAKERthat you're looking for, but anyway.
58:53SPEAKER- You want more push and less flow with the radiator
58:56SPEAKERis the idea. - Got it.
58:58SPEAKERCan I 30 second sidebar here and just self-indulgently
59:01SPEAKERask the Discord for more. - Starting the timer.
59:04SPEAKER- Or Blue Sky folks or whoever wants to add me.
59:07SPEAKERFor reasons we don't need to get into,
59:08SPEAKERI think I might be in the market for an AIO
59:10SPEAKERwhere the pump is in the radiator and not the CPU block.
59:14SPEAKER- Okay.
59:15SPEAKER- It's just one of those, the pump should be
59:17SPEAKERat the bottom of the loop things.
59:18SPEAKER- You want the placement, right, is the thing.
59:20SPEAKER- I'm kind of thinking I might put the AIO
59:22SPEAKERin the bottom of my case or the radiator in the bottom.
59:24SPEAKERSo if anybody has a recommendation
59:26SPEAKERfor a good AIO with the pump in the radiator,
59:29SPEAKERI would love to hear it.
59:30SPEAKER- Okay.
59:32SPEAKERSo anyway, yeah, I think that's it.
59:34SPEAKERI think that's our Computex news.
59:35SPEAKER- Oh, there's the one other--
59:37SPEAKER- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, the carbice.
59:38SPEAKER- Carbice, we're getting into exotic materials,
59:42SPEAKERscience, thermal pads again.
59:44SPEAKER- Yeah, so this is actually paired
59:46SPEAKERwith the 5800X3D release, I think, right?
59:50SPEAKER- Is it? - Yeah.
59:51SPEAKER- Oh yeah, 'cause I think the first version
59:52SPEAKERthey're shipping is AMD exclusive, right?
59:55SPEAKER- AM4, AM5, and I wanna say it's coming with the CPU maybe.
59:59SPEAKER- Oh, really?
1:00:00SPEAKER- So AMD is bundling the carbice ice pad
1:00:04SPEAKERwith the 5800X3D, it's branded Noctua.
1:00:10SPEAKERSo we talked about this earlier, the re-release,
1:00:13SPEAKERthe 10th anniversary re-release,
1:00:14SPEAKERit's really the sixth anniversary re-release
1:00:16SPEAKERof the 5800X3D.
1:00:18SPEAKER- Does that mean this is coming in the box with the CPU?
1:00:21SPEAKER- Yeah, in the box with the CPU.
1:00:22SPEAKER- Wow, that's interesting.
1:00:24SPEAKEROr, I mean, it could be a store bundle alternately,
1:00:27SPEAKERI don't know, I'm looking at the carbice,
1:00:29SPEAKERthey're the one who make this thing.
1:00:31SPEAKER- Has Adam talked to carbice before?
1:00:33SPEAKERI feel like- - I don't remember.
1:00:35SPEAKER- I swear I saw PC World talking to one of these companies
1:00:38SPEAKERthat's doing this, one of these crazy futuristic
1:00:41SPEAKERthermal interface materials, but maybe it's somebody else.
1:00:44SPEAKER- So we've talked to a bunch of people who do,
1:00:49SPEAKERlike there's a Honeywell Tim interface
1:00:52SPEAKERthat people really like that it changes phase.
1:00:54SPEAKERThat's the- - At CPU temperatures?
1:00:55SPEAKER- Yeah, that's the PTM 7950, which is kind of everywhere,
1:00:58SPEAKERnot everywhere, but you can get like Linus Tech Tips
1:01:00SPEAKERsells it now, like-
1:01:02SPEAKER- Yeah, but also you can get it from Thermal Grizzly
1:01:05SPEAKERfor like a 10th of the price that Linus sells it for.
1:01:08SPEAKER- I think there's might be a slightly different formula,
1:01:10SPEAKERbut similar.
1:01:12SPEAKERMod DIY also sells it, I know this
1:01:14SPEAKERbecause I almost ordered one a week or two ago.
1:01:18SPEAKERI always wonder with these things,
1:01:19SPEAKERand I don't know how that'll work for this,
1:01:21SPEAKERand we should also say what this technology actually is
1:01:24SPEAKERin a minute, but I always wonder
1:01:26SPEAKERwhat the removal process is like.
1:01:28SPEAKER- So on those pads, on the Honeywell pad,
1:01:32SPEAKERat room temperature it solidifies again,
1:01:34SPEAKERit becomes something you just peel off.
1:01:35SPEAKER- Supposedly, I have looked at some real world,
1:01:38SPEAKERsome form threads of people that actually have them,
1:01:40SPEAKERand like it sounds like it is a little bit,
1:01:42SPEAKERit's not as messy as paste definitely,
1:01:44SPEAKERbut it doesn't just come off like super clean,
1:01:46SPEAKERlike it's still- - My guess is
1:01:47SPEAKERyou use a putty knife to get the remainder.
1:01:49SPEAKERThey said they had to kind of scrape it off
1:01:52SPEAKERwhich is maybe a little less appealing.
1:01:53SPEAKER- So, I mean, here's the thing.
1:01:56SPEAKERSo this carbise thing is an aluminum carbon nanotube.
1:02:01SPEAKER- Carbon nanotubes.
1:02:02SPEAKER- Yeah, it's a amalgamation.
1:02:05SPEAKERSo they grow, it looks like they grow
1:02:07SPEAKERthe carbon nanotubes vertically perpendicular
1:02:10SPEAKERout of this aluminum substrate on both sides,
1:02:13SPEAKERwith the idea being that as the CPU heats and cools
1:02:16SPEAKERover the first few heat cycles,
1:02:18SPEAKEReventually the carbon nanotubes mold
1:02:21SPEAKERto the unique surface of your CPU
1:02:23SPEAKERand your thermal interface and your cooler
1:02:26SPEAKERso that there's no gaps in those tubes.
1:02:29SPEAKERThe reason they use carbon nanotubes
1:02:31SPEAKERis 'cause they transmit heat really efficiently.
1:02:33SPEAKERSo you send it into this aluminum layer,
1:02:35SPEAKERit comes out of the aluminum layer,
1:02:36SPEAKERthen it goes into the carbon nanotubes on the other side
1:02:38SPEAKERand comes up into your AIO block or your fan
1:02:41SPEAKERor whatever you have.
1:02:42SPEAKER- I'll put our show notes for this in this week's episode
1:02:45SPEAKERso you can click through.
1:02:46SPEAKERWe've got a link to the actual Noctua page for this
1:02:49SPEAKERthat has a microscopic photo of how this works.
1:02:52SPEAKERLike you can see the tiny imperfections
1:02:54SPEAKERin what would be the CPU heat spreader
1:02:56SPEAKERand how the nanotubes kind of like bond to those
1:03:00SPEAKERor kind of fill in those gaps.
1:03:01SPEAKER- So when you use thermal goo, theoretically,
1:03:03SPEAKERit warms up and it spreads out and does the same thing,
1:03:05SPEAKERbut then you have the goo mist.
1:03:07SPEAKERAnd also, over time, the thermal paste dries out.
1:03:10SPEAKER- That's the thing. - There's a whole host
1:03:12SPEAKERof problems. - Yeah, that's the thing
1:03:13SPEAKERas I've been reading in these communities
1:03:15SPEAKERof people exploring these other materials,
1:03:17SPEAKERthat's the thing most of them are trying to avoid
1:03:18SPEAKERis that the paste is fine when you put it on,
1:03:21SPEAKERbut after X number of years, three, four years.
1:03:25SPEAKER- I have a 12-year-old Broadwell E machine in the garage
1:03:28SPEAKERthat ran for a good eight years.
1:03:31SPEAKERI'm tempted to go pop it off
1:03:32SPEAKERand see what it looks like under there.
1:03:33SPEAKER- Sure, sure, yes.
1:03:35SPEAKERBut it's basically people looking for like,
1:03:37SPEAKERI wanna put a thing on once
1:03:38SPEAKERand never have to think about it again.
1:03:39SPEAKERAnd that's what this is doing, like this straight out.
1:03:42SPEAKERI think that's literally part of this press release
1:03:44SPEAKERor product page is that it's supposed to be good
1:03:47SPEAKERfor the life of the CPU, right?
1:03:49SPEAKER- Yeah, so there's two announcements here.
1:03:50SPEAKEROne is that AMD is bundling the carbice ice pad,
1:03:54SPEAKERwhich is this carbon nanotube pad,
1:03:57SPEAKERwith all of the 5800 X3Ds that they're selling,
1:04:00SPEAKERthe retail ones, when that's out later this year.
1:04:03SPEAKERThe other announcement is that if you have an AM5
1:04:06SPEAKERor AM4 machine and you want to buy one of these
1:04:08SPEAKERat some point, Noctua is gonna sell one that's pre-cut
1:04:12SPEAKERto fit the AM4, AM5 platform.
1:04:15SPEAKERSo yeah, I mean, I don't know, man, this feels good.
1:04:21SPEAKERI'm excited about this.
1:04:22SPEAKERThey described this as a peel and stick installation
1:04:24SPEAKERwithout any guesswork.
1:04:26SPEAKER- Which is exciting, that sounds good.
1:04:28SPEAKERI might, I'm gonna keep an eye on this.
1:04:30SPEAKER- Yeah, like the initial thermal pads were like,
1:04:36SPEAKERhey, this is, 'cause you ran one for a little bit.
1:04:39SPEAKERIt's convenient, but it isn't. - The graphite pad.
1:04:42SPEAKER- Yeah, the graphite pad.
1:04:43SPEAKERThey're convenient, but you are sacrificing some performance
1:04:46SPEAKERand this seems like this may be as good or better
1:04:48SPEAKERthan what you would expect
1:04:51SPEAKERfrom a similar thermal grease situation.
1:04:54SPEAKER- The Gamers Nexus testing with those graphite pads
1:04:56SPEAKERshowed, I think, like average,
1:04:57SPEAKERyou're giving up three to four degrees Celsius
1:05:00SPEAKERof performance, which is not nothing at the top end,
1:05:03SPEAKERbut that's fine for a lower power CPU.
1:05:04SPEAKERThe thermal pad, not maybe as convenient as you might think
1:05:10SPEAKERbecause I think as light as a feather.
1:05:13SPEAKERSo when you put it on the CPU,
1:05:15SPEAKERit's also, there is no friction to it at all.
1:05:18SPEAKERLike a light breeze will just blow that thing
1:05:20SPEAKERright off the CPU and when you're-
1:05:21SPEAKER- Yeah, 'cause they're really thin.
1:05:22SPEAKER- They're super thin, super light, zero.
1:05:24SPEAKERAgain, there's like, they're like,
1:05:26SPEAKERwhat's the term I'm looking for?
1:05:27SPEAKERThe opposite of like rough, you know what I mean?
1:05:29SPEAKERThere's like, again- - Oh, they're super slippery.
1:05:31SPEAKER- Like there's no friction like adhering them to the surface
1:05:33SPEAKERand when you're putting a giant tower cooler on
1:05:35SPEAKERand can't see underneath the tower cooler
1:05:37SPEAKERand you've lined up the thing,
1:05:39SPEAKERlike you could kind of like nudge it with the cooler
1:05:42SPEAKERas you're screwing it in and it could get way off center
1:05:44SPEAKERand you would never know it.
1:05:45SPEAKERAnd so that's, it's actually kind of a pain to install
1:05:48SPEAKERand keep aligned.
1:05:49SPEAKER- Look, we had somebody bring their computer in
1:05:52SPEAKERand they were like, hey, I'm getting weird crashes.
1:05:54SPEAKERI've been using this for two years,
1:05:56SPEAKERbut it's, when we took the cooler off,
1:06:00SPEAKERthe plastic was still on there.
1:06:02SPEAKER- Oh no, oh no, that's the classic thing you hear about.
1:06:08SPEAKER- So the funny thing is they'd put grease on the CPU.
1:06:12SPEAKERSo there was grease between the plastic and the CPU
1:06:14SPEAKERand then it had the thermal pad between the plastic
1:06:17SPEAKERand the thing and I wanna say it was like a 5700
1:06:21SPEAKERor something like that, like a reasonably low power Ryzen
1:06:25SPEAKERand they'd run it for five years, four or five years
1:06:28SPEAKERbefore it started having problems.
1:06:29SPEAKERSo like kind of like, wow, that's bad, but also damn.
1:06:34SPEAKERYou know?
1:06:35SPEAKER- Did you ever get a follow up from them?
1:06:36SPEAKER- Yeah, it was much better afterwards.
1:06:38SPEAKERIt turns out the fans made much less noise
1:06:39SPEAKERis what we were told.
1:06:40SPEAKER- I wonder if there was any permanent damage
1:06:42SPEAKERor if they were just hunky dory from there.
1:06:44SPEAKER- They're still using it as far as I know, so.
1:06:46SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm curious about this.
1:06:47SPEAKERI'm always excited to see new advancements in materials
1:06:51SPEAKERfor this specific thing.
1:06:52SPEAKER- So the thing I'll say is one of the things
1:06:57SPEAKERthat you can get in trouble with with thermal grease
1:06:58SPEAKERis if you use, a lot of the enthusiast greases thermal paste
1:07:04SPEAKERare designed for people who change stuff out
1:07:06SPEAKERfairly regularly.
1:07:07SPEAKERSo like in the Maximum PC Lab, we used to use this Arctic,
1:07:11SPEAKERit was Arctic silver, but it was like a white paste
1:07:15SPEAKERthat was designed for frequent application
1:07:18SPEAKERand reapplications.
1:07:19SPEAKERIt was easy to take off.
1:07:20SPEAKERIt was a really good, it had good thermal properties,
1:07:24SPEAKERbut it was not designed for long-term use.
1:07:25SPEAKERSo if you'd used it for three years,
1:07:28SPEAKERit would dry out and get crusty and be horrible.
1:07:31SPEAKERAnd so like when you're building a machine for home
1:07:34SPEAKERor working on your machine at home,
1:07:34SPEAKERyou never would have used that stuff.
1:07:37SPEAKERA lot of the enthusiast pastes are designed
1:07:39SPEAKERfor fairly regular reapplication,
1:07:42SPEAKERespecially when you get into like the extreme computing side
1:07:45SPEAKERand I think Thermal Grizzly is actually pretty good
1:07:48SPEAKERabout this 'cause they explicitly say,
1:07:50SPEAKERhey, these are the ones that you should use
1:07:52SPEAKERwhen you're reapplying regularly.
1:07:54SPEAKERThese are the ones, they sell a thing called Duranot
1:07:56SPEAKERthat's good for like five plus years.
1:07:59SPEAKERIt's a real pain in the butt to put on,
1:08:01SPEAKERbut it's less liquidy, so you spread it out manually
1:08:04SPEAKERand then theoretically it should last a lot longer.
1:08:08SPEAKERI think that these TIMs that are like the Honeywell stuff,
1:08:13SPEAKERlike this nanotube thing provides
1:08:16SPEAKERa probably better experience for most people,
1:08:20SPEAKERespecially if you're worried about applying grease.
1:08:22SPEAKERSo anyway, that's cool.
1:08:25SPEAKER- Yeah, it seemed like, I'm gonna say,
1:08:28SPEAKERI guess we didn't talk about the rise
1:08:30SPEAKERof the eight gigabyte laptops very much, but.
1:08:32SPEAKER- Yeah, no, that's probably something
1:08:33SPEAKERwe're gonna be talking about for some time to come.
1:08:35SPEAKER- Yeah, the bad news is that a lot of low
1:08:38SPEAKERand mid range laptops are gonna be eight gigs,
1:08:40SPEAKEReven on Windows now, which seems,
1:08:43SPEAKERlike that was the one real bummer news.
1:08:45SPEAKEREverything else was kind of like,
1:08:48SPEAKERI don't hate the DDR4 motherboards
1:08:50SPEAKERare being manufactured again.
1:08:51SPEAKERI hate why they're having to do that,
1:08:53SPEAKERbut giving people more support for the hardware
1:08:56SPEAKERthat they bought that's still fine is great.
1:08:58SPEAKERWhen I sit down in front of my daughter's AM4 machine,
1:09:01SPEAKERit doesn't feel like an old computer.
1:09:03SPEAKER- Yeah, computers just generally got pretty fast
1:09:07SPEAKERfor everything except like super high-end gaming,
1:09:11SPEAKERfive, six, seven year old PCs, still perfectly viable.
1:09:13SPEAKERThe other thing, again, like you said,
1:09:16SPEAKERit sucks that this is happening,
1:09:18SPEAKERbut seeing adaptations on the software side
1:09:20SPEAKERhas been interesting.
1:09:21SPEAKERI'm sure you saw that Linux kernel work
1:09:24SPEAKERthat Valve has been doing to make games run much better
1:09:27SPEAKERwith eight gigabytes of VRAM is unequivocally a good thing.
1:09:32SPEAKERLike Microsoft's got this whole initiative
1:09:34SPEAKERto make Windows more efficient,
1:09:36SPEAKERsupposedly over the next year,
1:09:37SPEAKERand reduce memory footprint that they've talked about,
1:09:39SPEAKERlike Apple, say what you want about Apple's
1:09:43SPEAKERlike aggressive swapping strategy on MacBooks,
1:09:45SPEAKERlike eating up SSDs over time,
1:09:47SPEAKERhow pressing of a problem that actually is,
1:09:50SPEAKERis open to debate, but like, you know, again,
1:09:52SPEAKERthey've made interesting adaptations there to,
1:09:56SPEAKERyou know, like there are ways to make things more efficient
1:09:59SPEAKERand make the memory pressure less of an issue,
1:10:01SPEAKERwhich is at least good to see.
1:10:03SPEAKER- Yeah, and like, I don't think it's a good thing
1:10:06SPEAKERthat people are selling eight gig laptops.
1:10:08SPEAKERI wouldn't recommend anybody go out
1:10:09SPEAKERand buy an eight gig laptop
1:10:10SPEAKERif they can afford something better.
1:10:11SPEAKER- Yeah, if you can afford 16, that is much more future proof.
1:10:14SPEAKER- Yeah, but at the same time,
1:10:17SPEAKERif this applies pressure to software vendors
1:10:19SPEAKERto get their memory usage under control,
1:10:21SPEAKERif this helps Google feel the need
1:10:24SPEAKERto reduce the amount of RAM that they're using,
1:10:26SPEAKERthat would be great.
1:10:27SPEAKERIt's funny, I had a conversation with a friend yesterday,
1:10:30SPEAKERand she was telling me about her kid's Chromebook
1:10:32SPEAKERthat her school makes her use,
1:10:34SPEAKERand she was like, "They limit the number of tabs
1:10:36SPEAKER"you can have open in Chrome."
1:10:38SPEAKERAnd this is for like a high school aged kid
1:10:39SPEAKERor middle school aged kid.
1:10:41SPEAKERAnd I was like, is it because of RAM limits,
1:10:43SPEAKERor is it just 'cause the IT department
1:10:44SPEAKERdoesn't want them to have 300 tabs open
1:10:46SPEAKERand churn the SSDs in these things?
1:10:49SPEAKERBut yeah, that's a bad solution for the,
1:10:54SPEAKERhey, my thing is taking too much RAM.
1:10:56SPEAKERThe good solution is there's gotta be better solutions,
1:10:59SPEAKERand having people pay attention to that
1:11:01SPEAKERfor the first time in two decades is nice.
1:11:03SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:11:05SPEAKER- You know what else is nice?
1:11:06SPEAKER- What's that?
1:11:07SPEAKER- Supporting your favorite podcasts.
1:11:08SPEAKER- You're right.
1:11:09SPEAKERI was about to say like more native UI framework usage,
1:11:12SPEAKERbut that's probably not the direction you were going.
1:11:14SPEAKER- Look, native UI framework usage,
1:11:16SPEAKERI look, the one thing I am stoked about
1:11:19SPEAKERwith the whole nobody spending money
1:11:20SPEAKERon things that have RAM or storage in them
1:11:23SPEAKERis that people are gonna spend money
1:11:24SPEAKERon things that don't have RAM and storage in them,
1:11:26SPEAKERlike monitors and keyboards,
1:11:27SPEAKERand we'll see some interesting things happening
1:11:30SPEAKERin those spaces, I hope.
1:11:32SPEAKER- Some of that at the show even.
1:11:33SPEAKER- Yeah, like I'm stoked about what's happening
1:11:36SPEAKERwith the OLEDs, I'm stoked at what's happening.
1:11:38SPEAKERLike I will totally buy a 1440p 27 inch OLED this year.
1:11:43SPEAKERI would be shocked if I don't end up
1:11:45SPEAKERby the end of the year doing that.
1:11:48SPEAKERBut maybe I'm gonna buy a mini RGB LED instead.
1:11:50SPEAKERThat seems kind of expensive, but you know, hey.
1:11:53SPEAKER- Well, hopefully they'll get cheap too.
1:11:55SPEAKER- Yeah, but also supporting your favorite podcasts
1:11:58SPEAKERis lovely as well.
1:12:00SPEAKERWe appreciate each and every person
1:12:02SPEAKERwho supports us on Patreon.
1:12:05SPEAKERYou can go to patreon.com/techpod
1:12:07SPEAKERand find out how it costs five bucks in the US.
1:12:09SPEAKERThat's like a crunch wrap these days,
1:12:13SPEAKERover two thirds of a crunch wrap at the Taco Bell
1:12:16SPEAKERby my house.
1:12:18SPEAKERI'm gonna say, I have often over the years,
1:12:21SPEAKERand we've talked about this before,
1:12:22SPEAKERfelt a little bit bad about the amount of money
1:12:25SPEAKERthat we pay to Patreon as for the services they provide.
1:12:29SPEAKERBut this week, Patreon stood up.
1:12:32SPEAKERI don't know if you saw, Jack Conte who's the CEO
1:12:35SPEAKERof Patreon, have you followed the Brickson minifig saga
1:12:39SPEAKERon YouTube, are you aware of this?
1:12:40SPEAKER- I think I might've seen one headline.
1:12:42SPEAKER- It's funny, we had a meeting with someone
1:12:44SPEAKERfrom Patreon yesterday when the name Jack Conte
1:12:47SPEAKERcame up repeatedly, but I think I saw something
1:12:50SPEAKERabout some copyright dispute or something going on there.
1:12:53SPEAKER- Yeah, so there's a YouTuber who is doing a video series
1:13:01SPEAKERabout maybe fraudulent transaction with this Lego shop
1:13:07SPEAKERin Oregon someplace, and those people don't understand
1:13:12SPEAKERhow the internet works, so instead of just saying,
1:13:15SPEAKER"Hey, yeah, sorry, we did this," and giving the people
1:13:17SPEAKERtheir Lego back, basically the TLDR is it was a consignment
1:13:25SPEAKERdeal that then somebody maybe wasn't supposed
1:13:29SPEAKERto do consignment, and the corporate took over the store,
1:13:33SPEAKERand as part of not doing consignment and taking over
1:13:36SPEAKERthat store, they ended up with a quarter of a million dollars
1:13:38SPEAKERworth of Lego that probably they didn't buy,
1:13:40SPEAKERand they're refusing to give it back or chuck over
1:13:43SPEAKERthe money or whatever.
1:13:44SPEAKERAnyway, the TLDR is this YouTuber started doing videos
1:13:48SPEAKERabout this, and the Lego store just DMCA'd the YouTube
1:13:51SPEAKERvideos, and YouTube, because of the way the DMCA works,
1:13:55SPEAKERjust took them down, which is how it happens.
1:13:57SPEAKERSo then he put it up on his Patreon, and they DMCA'd Patreon,
1:14:02SPEAKERand Jack Conte posted a video yesterday or the day before
1:14:05SPEAKERin the morning, and was like, "Hey, so here's the situation
1:14:08SPEAKER"with the Reckless Ben and the Brixton minifigs situation.
1:14:13SPEAKER"We have looked at this, we've looked at this complaint,
1:14:15SPEAKER"we've talked to our attorneys, and our official policy
1:14:18SPEAKER"is that they can get fucked.
1:14:19SPEAKER"We're not taking the videos down."
1:14:21SPEAKER- Cool.
1:14:21SPEAKER- Which like, that is the service I'm paying Patreon for.
1:14:25SPEAKERI'm fine.
1:14:26SPEAKER- Totally.
1:14:26SPEAKER- Yeah, anyway, so shout-outs to Patreon.
1:14:29SPEAKER- That's good to hear.
1:14:30SPEAKERI mean, we tend to use YouTube and Twitch for most
1:14:34SPEAKERall of our video needs, mainly because people prefer
1:14:37SPEAKERthose platforms, 'cause they're already there.
1:14:39SPEAKERYou know, like the audience already knows the YouTube player
1:14:41SPEAKERand they would like to keep using it for everything,
1:14:42SPEAKERbut we also do a fair amount of streaming of things
1:14:45SPEAKERlike Alex playing Clone Hero, which is just nonstop
1:14:48SPEAKERlicensed music, or not even licensed, I mean, it's just--
1:14:51SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:14:52SPEAKER- You know what I mean, or like--
1:14:53SPEAKER- It's gonna trigger all sorts of copyright flags
1:14:55SPEAKERand the video will be muted at best.
1:14:57SPEAKER- That video is going to be nuked from orbit.
1:14:59SPEAKERLike WWE is really bad about getting takedowns on anything,
1:15:03SPEAKERincluding footage from their legacy program.
1:15:05SPEAKERLike the point is, like any time we run stuff like that,
1:15:08SPEAKERwhich is pretty frequent, we just go to Patreon with it.
1:15:11SPEAKERLike that's the, on the next lander, Patreon,
1:15:14SPEAKERthat's always the fallback when we did a stream like that.
1:15:16SPEAKERIt's like, hey, we're not even gonna like put the archive up
1:15:19SPEAKERon YouTube for this, 'cause it's not worth it,
1:15:20SPEAKERbut the full thing will be on Patreon
1:15:22SPEAKERand you can watch it there.
1:15:23SPEAKER- That's awesome.
1:15:24SPEAKER- Yeah, so like--
1:15:25SPEAKER- Good for them.
1:15:26SPEAKER- Good on them, that's, yeah.
1:15:27SPEAKER- So yeah, we love Patreon.
1:15:29SPEAKERIf you wanna support us over on Patreon,
1:15:31SPEAKERyou can go to patreon.com/techbaud.
1:15:34SPEAKERLike I said, it's five bucks a month
1:15:35SPEAKERand we appreciate this work.
1:15:36SPEAKERSo we don't take ads here.
1:15:37SPEAKERThis is an ad-free podcast.
1:15:40SPEAKERAs always, we wanna thank all of our patrons,
1:15:42SPEAKEReverybody who supports the show, thank you all so much.
1:15:44SPEAKERWhen you sign up, you get access to the Discord,
1:15:46SPEAKERwhich is full of beautiful nerds who talk about,
1:15:49SPEAKERlike all sorts of stuff.
1:15:50SPEAKERWe were talking about mail clients this week.
1:15:52SPEAKERWe were talking about a whole lot of talk about small,
1:15:56SPEAKERlike ESP32-based DIY projects lately.
1:16:01SPEAKERAnd I'm seeing some new stuff happening
1:16:02SPEAKERin the networking channels that are interesting
1:16:04SPEAKERthat I'm gonna get into,
1:16:05SPEAKERwe'll probably do an episode about in the future.
1:16:07SPEAKER- Oh.
1:16:09SPEAKER- But yeah, and a shout out,
1:16:12SPEAKERspecial shout out goes to our executive producer,
1:16:14SPEAKERto your patrons every month, or every week rather,
1:16:17SPEAKERincluding Infelicitous Rips, Andrew M. Slosky.
1:16:21SPEAKERIs it M?
1:16:22SPEAKERHold on, my browser is too narrow,
1:16:24SPEAKERso I'm not seeing full names here, which is a problem.
1:16:27SPEAKERMaybe it's just Andrew dot dot dot.
1:16:29SPEAKERI can't tell.
1:16:30SPEAKERNo, it's Andrew Slosky, sorry, Andrew.
1:16:33SPEAKERJordan Lippett, Octothorpe Bunny for Work,
1:16:36SPEAKERDavid Allen, James Kamik, and Pantheon,
1:16:39SPEAKERmakers of the HS3 high-speed 3D printer.
1:16:44SPEAKERI've said that probably 800 times,
1:16:45SPEAKERand you'd think I would have it locked in by now,
1:16:47SPEAKERbut maybe not. - I was about to finish it
1:16:48SPEAKERfor you, 'cause I've heard it about 800 times.
1:16:51SPEAKER- I know.
1:16:52SPEAKERThat'll do it for us this week.
1:16:53SPEAKERWe'll be back next week with another edition
1:16:55SPEAKERof the TechPod.
1:16:56SPEAKERI think we've had a lot of requests for search alternatives,
1:16:59SPEAKER'cause people are upset with Google right now
1:17:01SPEAKERfor a good reason. - Is there a date
1:17:03SPEAKERfor the searchpocalypse?
1:17:04SPEAKER- I thought it was supposed to happen on June 1,
1:17:06SPEAKERbut they seem to have backed off, so.
1:17:09SPEAKEROr maybe it's like one of the staggered rollouts
1:17:11SPEAKERwhere we'll, like, some people get it and some people won't.
1:17:14SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, we should check out some other options.
1:17:16SPEAKER- I've been using Kagi, Kagi, I don't know how you say it.
1:17:19SPEAKER- Yeah, Kagi probably. - Kaji?
1:17:20SPEAKER- Probably Kagi.
1:17:21SPEAKER- Kagi.
1:17:23SPEAKERI've also been back on DuckDuckGo on some devices,
1:17:26SPEAKERso those seem to be the two leaders,
1:17:28SPEAKERbut if people have other things they want us to check out,
1:17:30SPEAKERsend it in.
1:17:31SPEAKER- You haven't been doing any binging?
1:17:33SPEAKER- Binging is DuckDuckGo.
1:17:35SPEAKER- Oh, is the--
1:17:36SPEAKER- Or DuckDuckGo is Bing.
1:17:37SPEAKER- Does that run on Bing?
1:17:38SPEAKERI didn't know that. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:17:39SPEAKERIt's just a different view on Bing.
1:17:41SPEAKER- Okay.
1:17:43SPEAKER- But yeah, so if people have other things
1:17:44SPEAKERthey want us to check out,
1:17:46SPEAKERplease send them in to techpod@content.town
1:17:49SPEAKERand we'll add them to the list.
1:17:50SPEAKERI think, from what I've seen so far,
1:17:53SPEAKERthose two are going to be recommended
1:17:55SPEAKERin some way, shape, or form.
1:17:56SPEAKERI don't know how I feel about paying for search,
1:17:58SPEAKERbut I also, like, I've started paying for email
1:18:02SPEAKERand a bunch of other things over the last couple years,
1:18:03SPEAKERso maybe I should just suck it up
1:18:05SPEAKERand, you know, stop being the product.
1:18:07SPEAKER- That does seem like maybe the fastest route
1:18:09SPEAKERto de-shitifying your internet experience.
1:18:12SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
1:18:13SPEAKERBut anyway, we'll be back next week with more TechPod.
1:18:15SPEAKERI don't know if that episode will be next week or the week.
1:18:17SPEAKERI think I want to try to do it sometime
1:18:19SPEAKERbetween now and the next Q&A episode, though,
1:18:21SPEAKERso send those asks in and we'll spend some time
1:18:24SPEAKERwith them over the coming weeks.
1:18:26SPEAKERAnd on that note, we will see you next time.
1:18:29SPEAKERAs always, please consider the environment
1:18:31SPEAKERbefore printing this podcast.