00:00SPEAKER- Who did that?
00:00SPEAKERWas it Fatboy Slim that did the song
00:02SPEAKERwith Christopher Walken dancing?
00:05SPEAKER- Weapon of choice, isn't it?
00:05SPEAKER- It's weapon of choice, yeah.
00:07SPEAKER- I think that's right, yeah.
00:09SPEAKER- I always get him and like Oak and Fold
00:11SPEAKERand the other--
00:12SPEAKER- Moby, maybe.
00:14SPEAKER- It wasn't Moby.
00:15SPEAKER- No, I know it's not Moby.
00:16SPEAKER- Moby never did anything that cool.
00:17SPEAKER- I'm just saying like of the early to mid aughts
00:21SPEAKERkind of individual techno,
00:23SPEAKERI don't even know if techno is the right term.
00:24SPEAKER- They're like electronica, I think, right?
00:26SPEAKER- Yeah, I guess that term got more generic
00:28SPEAKERand more broad over time.
00:29SPEAKER- Yeah, weapon of choice is the name
00:31SPEAKERof the Christopher Walken.
00:32SPEAKER- Yeah, pretty good video.
00:34SPEAKER- Yeah, it's pretty good.
00:34SPEAKER- You haven't seen that.
00:35SPEAKERLike that one, that's up there with like
00:37SPEAKERthat Jamiroquai video with all the freaky bugs and stuff,
00:41SPEAKERbut also where the room moves around him
00:43SPEAKERand you show that to people
00:44SPEAKERand then you tell them it was made when it was made
00:46SPEAKERand they're like, how'd they do this?
00:48SPEAKERWhat kind of like, this is all computer devilry
00:50SPEAKERand you're like, well, there's a little bit
00:51SPEAKERof computer devilry, but mostly it's just
00:52SPEAKERthey put a room on wheels.
00:54SPEAKER- Mostly a large moving room.
00:56SPEAKER- Yeah.
00:57SPEAKER- People like Moby more than you think,
00:59SPEAKERalthough I think in my experience,
01:01SPEAKERbut nobody admits willingly to liking Moby.
01:03SPEAKERThey all seem to do it grudgingly.
01:05SPEAKER- Look, that Moby album, everybody had that Moby CD.
01:08SPEAKERIf you were buying CDs at the time
01:11SPEAKERthat Moby album came out,
01:13SPEAKERthen everybody owned that Moby album.
01:16SPEAKER- Play?
01:17SPEAKER- Play.
01:17SPEAKER- Is that the one?
01:18SPEAKER- Yeah.
01:19SPEAKER- I didn't own that Moby album.
01:20SPEAKERIn fact, I don't think, I couldn't name a song
01:21SPEAKERfrom that album.
01:23SPEAKER- You'd know this, there's one song.
01:24SPEAKERIt's the Moby song.
01:27SPEAKERIt's the one Moby song that ever got radio play.
01:29SPEAKER- God, that came out in 1999.
01:31SPEAKER- Yeah.
01:32SPEAKER- That is old.
01:33SPEAKER- Premillennial.
01:34SPEAKER- Can you name the song?
01:35SPEAKER- It's called Play, isn't it?
01:37SPEAKER- Is there a song called Play on Play?
01:39SPEAKERI'm not so sure about that.
01:40SPEAKER- I don't know.
01:41SPEAKER- There is not.
01:42SPEAKER- Okay, like that was, look, kids, okay,
01:45SPEAKERkids these days, you don't understand.
01:47SPEAKERIn the old days, if you wanted to get a CD,
01:49SPEAKERa song that you liked on CD quality
01:51SPEAKERwithout resorting to piracy,
01:53SPEAKERwhich was never, never CD quality.
01:55SPEAKEREverybody was like, oh yeah, I got CD quality rips.
01:57SPEAKERNever CD quality rips.
01:58SPEAKER- Nobody was downloading Lossless in those days.
02:00SPEAKER- No.
02:02SPEAKER- Which we'll get to on this episode, actually.
02:04SPEAKER- But yeah, so you bought the album,
02:05SPEAKERyou spent $17 on a CD to get the two songs you wanted,
02:10SPEAKERand I think it was Honey, but I could be wrong.
02:13SPEAKER- That's the first song on the album?
02:15SPEAKER- It's either Honey or Run On.
02:17SPEAKER- Okay, maybe I'll do some, I don't know,
02:19SPEAKERmaybe I won't do some research.
02:21SPEAKERI don't know how much I care
02:22SPEAKERabout rediscovering old Moby at this point.
02:25SPEAKER- In retrospect, at the time,
02:27SPEAKERif you had said, hey, Moby or Beck,
02:29SPEAKERI probably would have said Moby,
02:30SPEAKERand these days it's all Beck,
02:32SPEAKER'cause Beck got real weird and good,
02:33SPEAKERcontinued getting weirder as he got older.
02:35SPEAKER- Yeah, Moby just got weird and weird.
02:37SPEAKER- Yeah, he played Coachella this year, though, I think.
02:39SPEAKERThat's weird. - Did he?
02:40SPEAKERYeah, I believe that, I would believe that.
02:42SPEAKERThis all came up 'cause some people were,
02:44SPEAKERfor reasons I don't remember,
02:45SPEAKERpeople were passing around the video for South Side,
02:48SPEAKERwhich is also on Play recently,
02:49SPEAKERthe one featuring Gwen Stefani,
02:51SPEAKERwho is a fraud subject all of her own these days.
02:55SPEAKER- Yeah, we don't talk about Gwen Stefani anymore.
02:56SPEAKERIt turns out there were warning signs all along
03:01SPEAKERthat the people were like, hey, this woman just seems
03:03SPEAKERto be wholesale appropriating Japanese youth culture
03:07SPEAKERfrom certain areas and popularizing it in the U.S.
03:11SPEAKERand going, oh, weird.
03:13SPEAKER- Never meet your heroes, they say.
03:14SPEAKER- Yeah. - Well, except us.
03:16SPEAKER- Yeah, we're fine, we're cool.
03:18SPEAKER(upbeat music)
03:26SPEAKER(upbeat music continues)
03:46SPEAKER- Welcome to "Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod."
03:48SPEAKERI'm Will. - I'm Brad.
03:49SPEAKER- My voice cracked there, in fact.
03:51SPEAKERToday's my 51st birthday.
03:53SPEAKERMaybe I'm finally hitting puberty.
03:54SPEAKER- Man, congratulations.
03:56SPEAKERHappy birthday. - Yeah.
03:57SPEAKER- 51, man, that's not even like, wow, I'm 50 now territory.
04:01SPEAKERThat's just like, oh, I'm just in this decade now.
04:03SPEAKER- Well, the rule is once you turn 50,
04:06SPEAKERthen it becomes instead of just a birthday,
04:08SPEAKERit's a celebration of Will.
04:12SPEAKERLike last year, I did 50 days of Will,
04:14SPEAKERa little bit of celebration every day.
04:15SPEAKERThis year, it's 51. - Sure, sure.
04:17SPEAKER- My daughter accused me of trying to live to be 365,
04:19SPEAKERso it would just always be the festival of Will.
04:21SPEAKERI was like, if I live to be 365,
04:23SPEAKEReverybody will be celebrating me.
04:25SPEAKERI don't think that's possible.
04:27SPEAKER- I got part of the way into an interesting YouTube video
04:29SPEAKERabout mammalian aging patterns last night.
04:33SPEAKER- Did you learn about those telomeres?
04:35SPEAKER- Yeah, but specifically why do mammals age the way they do?
04:38SPEAKERBecause the point of the video was like mammals age faster
04:40SPEAKERand more different, like, sorry, I'm not phrasing this well.
04:45SPEAKERThey age faster and in a distinct way from other vertebrates
04:48SPEAKERis basically, you know, like sharks, turtles, reptiles,
04:51SPEAKERyou know what I mean?
04:52SPEAKER- Yeah.
04:53SPEAKER- The theory was basically that because mammals were prey
04:57SPEAKERfor dinosaurs and larger animals,
05:00SPEAKERwhen they really started to emerge,
05:03SPEAKERthere were no selection pressures on mutations
05:05SPEAKERand degenerative genetic problems
05:08SPEAKERthat only express themselves later.
05:10SPEAKER- Oh, so we back-loaded all the problems.
05:12SPEAKER- Because they all died so fast.
05:15SPEAKER- Wow.
05:16SPEAKER- There was no way to select out all of the problems
05:18SPEAKERthat only emerged when the organism
05:20SPEAKERlived to a longer, to an older age.
05:22SPEAKER- Grim.
05:23SPEAKER- And so, yeah, anyway, it was, hey, some fun, light stuff
05:27SPEAKERto think about for your 51st year, I don't know.
05:29SPEAKER- In my comparative genetics class in college,
05:34SPEAKERwe had a conversation about this and like,
05:37SPEAKERthe nerds all came back with the professor was like,
05:39SPEAKERwhy do you think mammals age so fast?
05:41SPEAKERAnd he was just, it was the thought experiment
05:42SPEAKERbecause it's like, you know, he didn't know.
05:44SPEAKERWe don't, he was like, we don't know this.
05:45SPEAKERWhy do you think it is?
05:46SPEAKERWhat are your theories?
05:47SPEAKERAnd the nerds were talking about telomere length
05:51SPEAKERand like all that kind of stuff.
05:53SPEAKERAnd I was like, hey, I think that like,
05:56SPEAKERwe've genetically overclocked ourselves.
05:58SPEAKERWe just live, we live fast and hard.
06:00SPEAKERAnd then, you know, we burn out at the end.
06:02SPEAKERAnd for five glorious minutes,
06:05SPEAKERI was the cool kid in the comparative genetics class.
06:07SPEAKER- That's definitely the assertion
06:08SPEAKERof the Twitter wellness influencer these days
06:11SPEAKERthat likes to harp on cortisol a lot.
06:13SPEAKER- Look, you don't get puffy.
06:15SPEAKER- Yeah.
06:16SPEAKER- You don't wanna get, inflammation's bad.
06:17SPEAKERYou don't wanna get puffy.
06:19SPEAKERLook at how smooth that guy that wants to live forever
06:21SPEAKERthat posts all the weird stuff
06:22SPEAKERabout his and his wife's lives.
06:25SPEAKERWhat's his name?
06:26SPEAKERHe's Brian Johnson.
06:27SPEAKER- Yeah, that guy.
06:28SPEAKER- Yeah, that guy.
06:29SPEAKERYeah, he's very shiny.
06:32SPEAKERYeah, no, I don't wanna live to be 365.
06:33SPEAKERIt seems like A, a lot of work can be miserable.
06:36SPEAKER- Brian Johnson is trying desperately
06:38SPEAKERnot to be prey for dinosaurs.
06:39SPEAKER- Yeah, wow.
06:41SPEAKER- Maybe if we had more dinosaurs stalking our billionaires,
06:43SPEAKERwe would have fewer problems.
06:46SPEAKER- Look, these two problems could solve,
06:48SPEAKERJurassic Park, they pretty much solve themselves.
06:50SPEAKERThey work themselves out.
06:52SPEAKERBillionaires versus, it's not pirates versus ninjas,
06:54SPEAKERit's billionaires versus dinosaurs.
06:55SPEAKER- Now you're talking.
06:59SPEAKER- Welcome to my, okay, I'm emailing that to myself.
07:01SPEAKERI'm gonna pitch that.
07:02SPEAKERIt'll be coming to Amazon Prime next year.
07:05SPEAKERWait, no, no, Amazon Prime won't pay for that
07:07SPEAKER'cause Bezos is a, that has to be a Netflix
07:10SPEAKERor maybe an Apple TV, I don't know.
07:12SPEAKER- Reed Hastings might go for that.
07:13SPEAKER- Yeah.
07:15SPEAKERWhat are we, Brad, what are we talking about this week?
07:16SPEAKERWe got a topic, a capital T topic here.
07:19SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, sure, a wrap up, a year in review,
07:23SPEAKERa retrospective, we've done some of these before.
07:26SPEAKERI tried to, combing the RSS feed
07:28SPEAKERis getting increasingly difficult.
07:30SPEAKER- In retrospect, maybe putting clever names
07:32SPEAKERon every episode of the podcast
07:34SPEAKERinstead of descriptive ones was an error.
07:35SPEAKER- I tried to, I should have been secretly encoding
07:38SPEAKERlike episode types within the episode descriptions,
07:41SPEAKERbut I did not do that, so I could not find,
07:42SPEAKERI think we've only done two sets of these.
07:45SPEAKERThe first one was for our-
07:47SPEAKER- Birth years, right?
07:47SPEAKER- For our birthdays some years ago,
07:49SPEAKERwe each ran through the kind of science and tech
07:53SPEAKERhigh points of the years we were born.
07:55SPEAKERAnd then I think after that, we did the years
07:57SPEAKERwe graduated high school a year or two after later.
08:00SPEAKER- Yeah.
08:01SPEAKER- I think that's been two, three years now.
08:02SPEAKERI could not find another instance of these.
08:04SPEAKER- So in my head, it was the year that we,
08:06SPEAKERI went to college 'cause I went on eternal summer,
08:08SPEAKERwhich was the impetus, but then this-
08:11SPEAKER- Maybe that's what it was actually, I can't remember.
08:13SPEAKER- But then this year, well, this year,
08:16SPEAKERthis time, this go round, I said,
08:19SPEAKERI threw out a couple of dates and thinking,
08:23SPEAKERoh, hey, let's talk about the year that Windows XP came out
08:25SPEAKER'cause that'll be fun.
08:26SPEAKER- Yes, and like eight or 10 bullet points
08:29SPEAKERinto putting together a list of 2002 high points.
08:32SPEAKERI was like, oh, wait a minute, XP came out in 2001.
08:35SPEAKER- Yeah, so anyway, we're talking about 2002.
08:38SPEAKERWell, it was a transitional year, right?
08:40SPEAKER- Sure, or maybe it's notable because we can't,
08:44SPEAKERI mean, there are some high points in here for sure,
08:46SPEAKERbut it's actually kind of nice to look at a year
08:47SPEAKERthat doesn't have one overwhelming event
08:50SPEAKERthat kind of overshadows everything else
08:51SPEAKERin computing or whatever.
08:53SPEAKER- Well, but there's the seeds for a lot of things
08:57SPEAKERthat touch us every day were planted here, right?
09:01SPEAKERAnd so like we said, it's the year after XP came out.
09:04SPEAKERIt's the year that XP adoption accelerated
09:06SPEAKERpretty dramatically.
09:07SPEAKERIt's the year that like fortune 500 companies
09:12SPEAKERswitched from running Windows 95 and Windows NT4
09:15SPEAKERor 98 and went NT4 to XP.
09:19SPEAKERIt's when XP was still good
09:21SPEAKERbefore all the bad stuff happened.
09:22SPEAKERAnd Brad, it's the year Switzerland joined the UN.
09:26SPEAKER- Oh, yeah.
09:27SPEAKER- Which I didn't realize like that seems late to me.
09:30SPEAKERI don't know.
09:31SPEAKER- That seems very late, but hey,
09:33SPEAKERboy, I should not say this out loud.
09:35SPEAKERSwitzerland has been known
09:37SPEAKERfor being a bunch of fence sitters for a while.
09:39SPEAKER- Wow, wow.
09:40SPEAKER- I mean, look.
09:41SPEAKER- Hey, this is not the official policy
09:43SPEAKERof Brad and Wilma to TechPod.
09:44SPEAKERThis is Brad Shoemaker over here.
09:46SPEAKERI support our Swiss brethren.
09:49SPEAKER- The wartime neutrality is the reputation.
09:52SPEAKERI don't know how historically accurate it is, but.
09:57SPEAKER- They provide guards for the Pope.
09:58SPEAKERWell, what else do you want?
09:59SPEAKER- Yeah.
10:02SPEAKER- I think we're gonna ping pong around.
10:03SPEAKERWe're not gonna try to do this in chronological order
10:05SPEAKER'cause like we'll not get to the,
10:07SPEAKERsome of the more important stuff.
10:08SPEAKERActually, should we start with this one?
10:09SPEAKERI think this is one of the big ones, right?
10:14SPEAKERThe venerable, and I don't use that word often
10:17SPEAKER'cause it's overused and we don't use it in the right way,
10:19SPEAKERbut the venerable, I think the canonical 802.11G Wi-Fi router
10:27SPEAKERthe first one that a bazillion people had launched in 2002,
10:32SPEAKERa year before 802.11G, I guess now retro-nimmed to Wi-Fi 2.
10:39SPEAKER- Is that Wi-Fi 2?
10:40SPEAKER- That would be Wi-Fi 2, came out.
10:44SPEAKERIt's the WRT-54G, folks who don't remember,
10:47SPEAKERthis is a little blue and gray Linksys router.
10:50SPEAKERIt had two antennas, very friendly looking.
10:53SPEAKERIt was designed with feet that would let it sit
10:56SPEAKERon top of your cable modem or DSL modem, I guess.
11:00SPEAKERAnd this was, for me, this product was,
11:05SPEAKERwell, A, it came out,
11:06SPEAKERthis is when they started releasing Wi-Fi hardware
11:09SPEAKERbefore the spec was actually ratified.
11:11SPEAKER- Yeah, which continues to this day.
11:12SPEAKERAnd in fact, I came to realize recently,
11:14SPEAKERthis has been happening with Wi-Fi 7 routers a lot.
11:16SPEAKERAnd I assume it was the case back then as well,
11:19SPEAKERthat these routers that ship pre-spec finalization
11:23SPEAKERoften will get software updates
11:25SPEAKERthat kind of bring them up to spec,
11:26SPEAKERthat like the hardware is--
11:27SPEAKER- The hardware spec is finished, but the hardware is not.
11:29SPEAKER- Right, right, so they are capable
11:31SPEAKERof becoming fully compliant down the line.
11:34SPEAKER- Usually, sometimes not so much.
11:37SPEAKERYeah, sometimes they miss out on some key thing
11:39SPEAKERlike channel bonding or something like that
11:42SPEAKERthat requires hardware.
11:43SPEAKER- God, that stuff is a mess,
11:44SPEAKERnot to digress into 2026 technology too much,
11:47SPEAKERbut RTINGS, the perennial TV review sites
11:51SPEAKERthat now covers a ton of stuff,
11:52SPEAKERI watched a YouTube video from them a few weeks ago
11:55SPEAKERwhere they were just raking most Wi-Fi 7 devices
11:58SPEAKERover the coals because none of them
12:00SPEAKERmeet the spec requirements.
12:01SPEAKERNone of them implement the full feature set.
12:04SPEAKERSome of them are borderline fraudulent
12:06SPEAKERabout the features that they claim to support.
12:09SPEAKERIt's a mess, but anyway.
12:11SPEAKER- Yeah, well, anyway, we'll just talk about that
12:12SPEAKERin the future, but yeah, that router came out.
12:16SPEAKERWi-Fi, 802.11b, the first kind of big,
12:23SPEAKERwidespread version of Wi-Fi that had a lot of router support
12:28SPEAKERwasn't great, like it really kind of needed a line of sight.
12:31SPEAKERIt was capped out at 11 megabits shared
12:34SPEAKERacross all the devices, which wasn't too, too bad
12:37SPEAKERconsidering that at that point cable modems
12:40SPEAKERwere typically 10 to 100 megabits,
12:43SPEAKERlike an expensive cable modem was 100 megabits,
12:45SPEAKERand your DSL connections were often like 1.5 to five megabits
12:49SPEAKERso you were in the right realm for sharing internet
12:52SPEAKERwith multiple people.
12:54SPEAKERThis was one of the first consumer routers
12:58SPEAKERthat you could go into Best Buy
13:00SPEAKERand you'd see on the shelf at Best Buy,
13:01SPEAKERoh, hey, there's a Netgear one,
13:03SPEAKERthere's this blue Linksys one that everybody has,
13:05SPEAKERand it was a really, it was an inflection point
13:11SPEAKERfor wireless that also was brought around
13:14SPEAKERbecause around the same time Intel
13:15SPEAKERstarted shipping Wi-Fi chips in all of their laptops.
13:18SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't know if there's a whole episode here,
13:20SPEAKERbut if there were, this would absolutely qualify
13:22SPEAKERas one of those products that changed everything.
13:24SPEAKERI mean, I'm sitting here looking at my Amazon order history
13:26SPEAKERand it's amazing how long this remained
13:28SPEAKERthe router of record because I didn't buy my WRT.
13:32SPEAKERI bought a WRT54GL, I don't know what the L
13:35SPEAKERdenoted, I'm sure it was just slightly newer model,
13:39SPEAKERbut I didn't get mine until May, 2008.
13:41SPEAKER- Yeah.
13:42SPEAKER- That's five and a half years after this thing debuted,
13:45SPEAKERthat was still the go-to router.
13:47SPEAKER- Well, G lasted a long time 'cause G was 54 megabits,
13:51SPEAKERit was pretty fast, even shared,
13:53SPEAKERit was faster than most people's internet connections
13:56SPEAKERat the time, which was the important thing,
13:58SPEAKERand the range was a little bit better.
14:01SPEAKERThe other thing that's notable about the 54G
14:03SPEAKERis it was the tomato and DDWRT router.
14:05SPEAKER- Yep, ran tomato on that thing for years.
14:08SPEAKER- So yeah, Linksys had problems,
14:10SPEAKERhad open source license problems.
14:12SPEAKERThey'd used GPL software, this was based on Linux,
14:15SPEAKERthey ran Linux under the hood,
14:17SPEAKERand they didn't release source code
14:20SPEAKERin the way that they were supposed to,
14:21SPEAKERand there were legal actions that resulted
14:25SPEAKERin them releasing source code,
14:27SPEAKERand that source code release is what made tomato
14:31SPEAKERand DDWRT and the third-party router software possible.
14:35SPEAKERSo it's like, hey, this is a product
14:39SPEAKERthat first helped make Wi-Fi popular.
14:43SPEAKERIt had a distinctive industrial design
14:45SPEAKERthat people recognized and they used
14:48SPEAKERfor years and years afterwards.
14:50SPEAKERAnd it was about extending,
14:54SPEAKERit was a product that, one of the early products
14:56SPEAKERthat enabled enthusiast users to extend
14:59SPEAKERthe capability of their device with the features
15:02SPEAKERthat Linksys never would have shipped
15:04SPEAKERon a $100 consumer router.
15:06SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, and famously such a cultural institution
15:09SPEAKERthat it was featured in the South Park episode Overlogging.
15:12SPEAKER- Oh, really?
15:13SPEAKER- I don't know if you remember that.
15:14SPEAKER- Oh, I didn't know that.
15:15SPEAKER- That's the one where the internet goes out nationwide.
15:17SPEAKER- Oh, I've never seen that one.
15:18SPEAKER- And they have to find the source of the internet,
15:20SPEAKERand it's a giant one of these in a cave.
15:23SPEAKERLike in an underground bunker,
15:24SPEAKERthere is just a gigantic, literally one of these
15:27SPEAKERsitting there.
15:28SPEAKER- Oh, that's really funny.
15:29SPEAKER- It's pretty dumb.
15:32SPEAKER- Yeah, so yeah, wifi, nascent technology.
15:35SPEAKERIn 2003, Intel would release those Intrino laptops
15:38SPEAKERand start advertising about how cool wireless networks were.
15:42SPEAKERAnd then all of a sudden everybody bought laptops with wifi.
15:45SPEAKER- Yep, indeed.
15:48SPEAKERLinux.
15:50SPEAKER- Linux.
15:51SPEAKER- We don't have to belabor this too much.
15:53SPEAKERI'm just gonna throw it out there though.
15:54SPEAKERMarch, big month for gray beards.
15:59SPEAKER- Yeah.
16:00SPEAKER- The 11th of March, the first release of Arch Linux.
16:03SPEAKER- Wow.
16:04SPEAKER- The 31st of March, the first release of gen two.
16:07SPEAKER- So it's funny, I don't remember hearing about Arch at all
16:11SPEAKERin that time period.
16:12SPEAKER- Oh yeah, absolutely.
16:13SPEAKERWell, I barely heard about Linux at all at this time.
16:16SPEAKERWell, I take that back.
16:18SPEAKERWe've talked before,
16:19SPEAKERlike I did try to install Slackware in the late nineties.
16:21SPEAKERSo I think it's more that I wasn't paying attention
16:24SPEAKERor it wasn't being discussed outside of Linux circles
16:27SPEAKERat that time.
16:28SPEAKER- Well, and it also had a text,
16:30SPEAKERI mean, it still has a text installer,
16:32SPEAKERwhich was scary for a lot of people.
16:34SPEAKERGen two, on the gen two, on the other hand,
16:38SPEAKERwait, you say gen two.
16:39SPEAKER- It is gen two.
16:40SPEAKERSo I looked this up.
16:41SPEAKERWell, it's a gen two is a species of penguin.
16:44SPEAKERSo that's a pretty well delineated pronunciation.
16:47SPEAKER- Okay.
16:48SPEAKER- And give, as we all know, graphics starts with a hard G.
16:52SPEAKER- Okay, anyway, gen two we talked about a lot.
16:57SPEAKERI cover, I was covering OS as a maximum PC at that point.
17:00SPEAKER- Wait, covered, wow.
17:02SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, everybody had assigned beats, so.
17:06SPEAKER- Well, but I mean, like Debbie,
17:06SPEAKERI get covering something like Debbie in at this time,
17:09SPEAKERbut like Arch is crazy and gen two is crazier.
17:13SPEAKER- Well, but covering, in this case,
17:15SPEAKERcovering for a magazine was like knowing what was going on,
17:19SPEAKERnot reviewing and like I wasn't installing
17:22SPEAKERand reviewing all these bazillion Linuxes.
17:24SPEAKER- You were not compiling kernels
17:25SPEAKERwith obscure optimization flags enabled?
17:28SPEAKER- No, it basically meant I was the Windows guy.
17:31SPEAKER- Okay.
17:31SPEAKER- Now, the weird thing is, so I did install gen two though,
17:34SPEAKER'cause the, hey, we're gonna compile this specifically
17:37SPEAKERfor your machine to make it run faster
17:40SPEAKERwas a big performance complaint claim.
17:43SPEAKERAnd we were interested in performance claims at maximum PC.
17:45SPEAKERAnd I spent some time with it back then
17:48SPEAKERand got it up and running.
17:49SPEAKERAnd then like, I didn't, once I got up and running,
17:51SPEAKERI was like, how the hell do you benchmark Linux?
17:53SPEAKERThis seems impossible.
17:54SPEAKERAnd I think it ended up as a news blurb
17:56SPEAKERin the magazine probably.
17:57SPEAKER- And like, what are the dominant CPUs at this time,
17:59SPEAKERlike Pentium 3 and Athlon XP roughly, something like that?
18:02SPEAKER- Pentium 3 first gen P4s had come out,
18:06SPEAKERbut it was before they did the DDR memory controller.
18:10SPEAKERSo you still had to do Rambus.
18:11SPEAKERSo that was like a high-end part.
18:14SPEAKERAthlon XP wasn't out yet.
18:16SPEAKERIt was just Athlon by then.
18:17SPEAKER- Okay.
18:18SPEAKER- So it was like, this was the era
18:20SPEAKERof the one to 1.8 gigahertz Athlons, probably.
18:23SPEAKER- Right, still extremely, still single core.
18:25SPEAKERThe point is compute still pretty limited at the time.
18:28SPEAKERSo like, building software to run faster
18:30SPEAKERon your specific machine might've had
18:31SPEAKERactual tangible benefits as opposed to now
18:34SPEAKERwhen we have so much more overhead
18:35SPEAKERthat it's not kind of a huge deal.
18:37SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, theoretically, you should have,
18:39SPEAKERlook, those claims continue.
18:41SPEAKERKashi still ships kernels with like modern,
18:48SPEAKERwhat do you call it, CPU extensions.
18:50SPEAKER- Yeah, newer instruction set.
18:52SPEAKERActually, they're kind of all moving that way.
18:54SPEAKERLike even the next Red Hat is dropping
18:56SPEAKERor is only gonna work on, I think, V2, x86, 64, V2,
19:00SPEAKERI believe, anyway.
19:04SPEAKER- Yeah, so it was a good year for Linux.
19:05SPEAKERThis was the time that I started looking at Linux
19:10SPEAKERas the guy who wrote about OSs for maximum PC.
19:13SPEAKERI was like, I need to spend more time
19:14SPEAKERwith Linux the first time.
19:15SPEAKERAnd I set up a Linux machine in the lab
19:18SPEAKERthat I could kind of poke at occasionally
19:20SPEAKERand didn't really learn how to use
19:23SPEAKERuntil a couple of years later
19:24SPEAKERwhen I did spend a whole year using Debian.
19:28SPEAKERShould we talk about, oh, here's one.
19:31SPEAKERDid you know, Brad, that 2002
19:32SPEAKERwas the year the iPad launched?
19:36SPEAKER- Go on. - Yep, that's right.
19:38SPEAKERThe Fujitsu iPad, a lightweight handheld device
19:41SPEAKERintroduced by Fujitsu in 2002.
19:43SPEAKER- Interesting.
19:44SPEAKER- Ran Microsoft's WinCE.net operating system,
19:48SPEAKERand it was wireless to connect with company infrastructure.
19:51SPEAKER- Okay.
19:52SPEAKER- It looked like a candy bar phone, basically.
19:55SPEAKER- Okay, iPad, iPad came out in 2010, right, I believe?
19:58SPEAKER- 2010, yeah, March of 2010.
19:59SPEAKER- So what is the, oh, it's Apple.
20:02SPEAKEROh, oh, the Wikipedia actually had,
20:03SPEAKERwhat I was gonna say is how long does a trademark last?
20:07SPEAKERLike what happened that only eight years later another,
20:10SPEAKERbut it is Apple.
20:11SPEAKERIf they want the name iPad,
20:12SPEAKERthey're probably going to get the name iPad.
20:14SPEAKER- Well, so the way it worked was Apple announced the iPad,
20:17SPEAKERFujitsu sued them, and then Apple wrote them
20:19SPEAKERa big giant check.
20:20SPEAKER- Oh, wow, they did not do their due diligence?
20:22SPEAKERInteresting, yeah, okay, yes.
20:23SPEAKER- Actually, they may not have even gotten to the point
20:25SPEAKERthat they sued them.
20:26SPEAKERThey may have just written them the check.
20:27SPEAKER- Trademark analysts estimate that Apple paid Fujitsu
20:30SPEAKERover $4 million.
20:32SPEAKER- That seems pretty cheap in retrospect.
20:33SPEAKER- For the trademark rights, so.
20:36SPEAKER- Just to be clear, the styling on this is lowercase I,
20:38SPEAKERcapital P, capital A, capital D, not that.
20:41SPEAKERI never actually saw one of these.
20:42SPEAKERI just thought it was funny
20:43SPEAKER'cause it came up in the list of notable hardware
20:46SPEAKERfrom this time period.
20:47SPEAKER- That is such a 2002 looking device.
20:50SPEAKER- Yeah, it looks, I mean, look,
20:51SPEAKERwe should talk about candy bar phones
20:53SPEAKER'cause that was the dominant shape of a phone
20:56SPEAKERat that point in time.
20:57SPEAKER- Maybe talk about some mobile devices here.
20:59SPEAKERI'm gonna sidebar real quick.
21:01SPEAKERI go real back and forth on this wave of,
21:04SPEAKERthere's a real intense wave of turn of the century computing
21:06SPEAKERand like UI design nostalgia going on right now.
21:09SPEAKERI don't know if you're familiar with the words,
21:13SPEAKERdoes Frutiger Aero mean anything to you?
21:16SPEAKER- I don't know what Frutiger Aero is.
21:17SPEAKERI was looking at the Utopian, what is it then?
21:22SPEAKER- It's that.
21:22SPEAKER- Oh, it's that.
21:23SPEAKEROkay.
21:24SPEAKER- It's the, it is the design.
21:25SPEAKERIt basically is a mishmash of the Windows XP,
21:28SPEAKERlike Green Hills Wallpaper and what-
21:31SPEAKER- And Carta.
21:32SPEAKER- And what iTunes and like frosted glass UI
21:35SPEAKERand like that really like uplifting, glossy, sleek,
21:39SPEAKERlike Y2K is another name for it.
21:41SPEAKERIt's just, it's a, what do you call it? A retronome.
21:43SPEAKERIt's like a, it is a,
21:44SPEAKERit is a label that young people who didn't,
21:46SPEAKERwere kind of not alive at this time have come up with
21:50SPEAKERto describe this aspirational aesthetic
21:52SPEAKERof the turn of the century that they wish was around.
21:55SPEAKERAnyway, this phone reminds me of that.
21:57SPEAKERLike looking at this phone, like they're not,
21:58SPEAKERlook at the number, you're not wrong.
22:01SPEAKERLike the buttons are all like,
22:02SPEAKERthey look like they're Aqua from Mac from OS 10.
22:05SPEAKERLike they look like little bubbles of,
22:07SPEAKERof like clear liquid and stuff.
22:09SPEAKERAnd it's all rounded and glossy and like, you know,
22:11SPEAKERstuff from the like '99 to '03-ish era
22:16SPEAKERhas got a real look to it.
22:17SPEAKER- Well, also instead of having the normal 12 digit keypad,
22:21SPEAKERit has what looks like a 25 digit keypad, maybe?
22:24SPEAKERIt's got four, four columns instead of three.
22:27SPEAKER- Yeah, I zoomed in.
22:28SPEAKERThose are, those are like numeric operators,
22:29SPEAKERlike division, multiplication.
22:31SPEAKER- Oh, wild.
22:32SPEAKER- There's a decimal, some other stuff, but yeah.
22:35SPEAKERAnyway, I'm torn on that, on the aesthetic question there.
22:40SPEAKERLike I'm not sure I love XP design
22:44SPEAKERand that kind of like Vista design at this point,
22:46SPEAKERbut whatever, paste is entirely subjective.
22:48SPEAKER- I like the frosted, I like, I like the,
22:51SPEAKERI don't mind the frosted.
22:52SPEAKERI like that better than clear warped glass, I think.
22:55SPEAKER- Yeah, it's just, it's interesting to me
22:57SPEAKERthat the credit has gone to Aero,
22:58SPEAKERwhich was the name of Microsoft's design language
23:00SPEAKERaround Vista and not Aqua,
23:02SPEAKERwhich was like Aqua in OS 10 predates Aero
23:05SPEAKERby like five or six years.
23:07SPEAKER- Wait, wasn't Aero XP?
23:10SPEAKER- No, Aero is, I'm pretty sure Aero is Vista.
23:14SPEAKER- Windows Aero was the, oh yeah, Vista and Windows 7.
23:17SPEAKER- 'Cause remember Vista was the one,
23:18SPEAKERI'm sure this was down to like
23:20SPEAKERincreasing 3D graphics support.
23:21SPEAKER- It was, yeah.
23:23SPEAKER- Vista was the one where all the transparency
23:24SPEAKERand frosted glass effects started coming in.
23:27SPEAKER- Right. - Oh, I don't,
23:28SPEAKERI don't know if XP has a design name.
23:31SPEAKER- XP added colors instead of gray.
23:35SPEAKER- I don't remember what the,
23:36SPEAKERthey absolutely had a name for it.
23:38SPEAKERI do not remember what it was.
23:40SPEAKEROh, Luna, visual style.
23:42SPEAKER- Okay, Luna, yep, yep.
23:43SPEAKER- Yeah. - Yeah.
23:44SPEAKERThat might, I don't know,
23:45SPEAKERmaybe this sounds a little amorphous
23:48SPEAKERor this might be hard to organize,
23:49SPEAKERbut I feel like that might almost be a whole episode of.
23:52SPEAKER- Oh, the evolution of Windows design language?
23:54SPEAKER- Not even just Windows,
23:55SPEAKERbut just kind of general UI design trends
23:57SPEAKERand the way they get categorized and stuff.
23:59SPEAKERMaybe if we can think of a way to kind of lay that out
24:03SPEAKERin a way that makes a little more sense to talk about,
24:05SPEAKERmaybe we'll revisit. - You know,
24:06SPEAKERwe could just rank them, all the design.
24:08SPEAKERMy daughter had a request - Interesting.
24:09SPEAKER- for a ranking of episode, by the way.
24:11SPEAKER- Interesting, what, say again?
24:12SPEAKER- My daughter had a request
24:14SPEAKERfor a ranking of episode the other day.
24:16SPEAKER- Interesting, wait, does she listen?
24:17SPEAKER- No. - Okay.
24:18SPEAKER- I hope not. (laughs)
24:20SPEAKER- Yeah, dodged a bullet there.
24:22SPEAKER- The thought of anybody around like under 18
24:25SPEAKERlistening to this strikes terror into my heart.
24:28SPEAKER- No, I think, I mean, look. - I don't want to be,
24:29SPEAKERI don't want to be a boomer.
24:30SPEAKER- Oh, well, Brad, I got bad news for you, buddy.
24:33SPEAKER- Yeah.
24:34SPEAKER- No, she wanted a ranking of curses, like curse words.
24:38SPEAKER- Oh, huh. - 'Cause she was like,
24:39SPEAKERyou know a lot of good swears that kids my age don't know.
24:42SPEAKER- That might be a tough fit for a tech podcast,
24:45SPEAKERbut I guess we can figure it out.
24:47SPEAKER- I mean, maybe we have to apply context
24:49SPEAKERfor when you would use this.
24:50SPEAKERThis is like when you, it's three o'clock in the morning
24:52SPEAKERand your hard drive bombed out
24:53SPEAKERand you just realized that your backups are no good.
24:56SPEAKERWhat's the appropriate swear for that scenario?
24:59SPEAKER- I would absolutely rank like graphical UI design trends,
25:03SPEAKERbut I don't know how easy that is without a visual aid.
25:06SPEAKER- I mean, we would have to do some big time show notes
25:08SPEAKERprobably off of the like linked off,
25:11SPEAKERlike actually the thing to do is to make a big Google doc
25:13SPEAKERand just put all the images in there and then share them.
25:15SPEAKERAnyway, but I'm partial to Luna.
25:17SPEAKERI liked the arrow stuff okay.
25:19SPEAKERThe problem with the arrow stuff originally
25:20SPEAKERwas the performance on it.
25:22SPEAKERBut like, I don't miss the Encarta style visual design
25:27SPEAKERof the late nineties, the kind of chaotic mess.
25:30SPEAKER- Yeah, that is exactly what those fans of that stuff
25:34SPEAKERare looking back fondly on.
25:35SPEAKERLike I'm not a huge fan of the weird organic
25:38SPEAKERlike graphics heavy software of that time.
25:41SPEAKER- The windows media player skin with the guy's head.
25:44SPEAKER- Yes, that's exactly the type of stuff
25:46SPEAKERthey are super into and that is super not for me.
25:48SPEAKERBut anyway.
25:50SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm living that simple Bauhaus life these days.
25:54SPEAKER- Hey, okay, well, while we're talking about phones,
25:58SPEAKERthe handspring trio was...
26:00SPEAKER- Maybe we should just do all the phone stuff here
26:02SPEAKERthat we've done.
26:02SPEAKER- Yeah, let's do, this can be phone section.
26:06SPEAKERSo the main market, I looked up market sales data
26:09SPEAKERthat I could find and according to like MP, not MPD,
26:13SPEAKERgot a camera with the name of the agency.
26:15SPEAKERBut anyway, the candy bar style smartphones
26:17SPEAKERwere the big sellers.
26:18SPEAKERThe Nokia 33 whatever series, depending on the vendor
26:22SPEAKERwas like a three inch tall candy bar cell phone.
26:26SPEAKERThey were all GPRS or 3G.
26:29SPEAKERAnd the amazing thing about them
26:31SPEAKERis that they had some additional features.
26:33SPEAKERBut the main thing I remember about that era phone
26:36SPEAKERis that like my Nokia and my Sony Ericsson phones
26:39SPEAKERlasted for like six days on battery.
26:42SPEAKERLike the battery was good for six or seven,
26:44SPEAKERfive to seven days, depending on the phone.
26:46SPEAKER- Were those candy bars?
26:47SPEAKER- Those were candy bars, yeah.
26:49SPEAKER- I never had a candy bar.
26:50SPEAKERI only had flip phones before smartphones came along.
26:53SPEAKER- Well, so the thing about the candy bar phones
26:54SPEAKERwas they were called that 'cause they didn't open.
26:58SPEAKERThere was no like moving parts.
26:59SPEAKERYou would hit a key combination
27:02SPEAKERto kind of unlock the buttons when it was in your pocket
27:05SPEAKERso you didn't accidentally,
27:06SPEAKERthis is where the origin of ass dialing people started
27:09SPEAKERis you put the phone in your back pocket,
27:11SPEAKERyou sit down on it
27:12SPEAKERand then it would dial your number three contact
27:14SPEAKERand that person would get a call at three o'clock
27:16SPEAKERin the morning, think you were calling them
27:17SPEAKERfor like sexual favors to go out or something.
27:19SPEAKERAnd it turns out they just got to hear the inside
27:21SPEAKERof your pants pocket for 10 minutes.
27:25SPEAKERBut the trio, the handspring trio was a Palm device.
27:27SPEAKERIt was a Palm OS device.
27:28SPEAKERSo this was a smartphone with a physical keyboard
27:33SPEAKERlike a Blackberry that ran Palm OS
27:37SPEAKERjust like your Palm pilot.
27:38SPEAKERAnd this was kind of Palm coming back.
27:40SPEAKERYou know, they had done PDA stuff
27:42SPEAKERin the late nineties and early two thousands
27:44SPEAKERand then kind of faded away for a couple of years.
27:46SPEAKERAnd this was the return with the handspring trio
27:49SPEAKERwhich was, like I said, it integrated a Palm pilot,
27:52SPEAKERa phone and well, I mean, those are the two things
27:57SPEAKERthat was all it did.
27:58SPEAKER- Also the year of the danger hip-top.
28:00SPEAKER- Yeah.
28:01SPEAKER- Which I had never really known as the danger hip-top
28:04SPEAKERor I may have heard that phrase at some point
28:05SPEAKERbut I always knew this device as the T-Mobile sidekick.
28:08SPEAKER- So in Europe, they called it the danger hip-top.
28:10SPEAKERIn the UK, the only, I mean, the US the only company
28:13SPEAKERthat had access to it that didn't paid to get access to it
28:16SPEAKERwas T-Mobile.
28:17SPEAKER- Okay.
28:18SPEAKER- So this was their intro into youth culture
28:20SPEAKER'cause you could do the aim and the MSN on it.
28:22SPEAKER- Yes, this had literal instant messaging on it
28:24SPEAKERand also a big fat keyboard, speaking of devices with key
28:27SPEAKERbut it had a cool flip up screen.
28:29SPEAKERIt like kind of-
28:30SPEAKER- It's fun.
28:31SPEAKER- It looked like a candy bar phone
28:32SPEAKERuntil you flipped the screen up
28:34SPEAKERand then you could access the keyboard underneath.
28:36SPEAKER- It was, if I recall, it was like you could hold it
28:39SPEAKERin one hand and flip the screen with your thumb
28:41SPEAKERso that the screen would like whip around
28:44SPEAKER'cause it pivoted, like the pivot for the screen
28:46SPEAKERwasn't like a clamshell like you'd expect.
28:48SPEAKERIt spun on a pivot that was at the...
28:53SPEAKERI guess, depending on which way you're looking at it,
28:54SPEAKERthe space between the keyboard and the screen
28:57SPEAKERis probably where it was.
28:58SPEAKER- I don't know if it was spring-loaded exactly
29:00SPEAKERbut it definitely had a little bit of like
29:01SPEAKERkind of an aggressive flip out kind of snap to it.
29:05SPEAKER- There was definitely a part where there was a point
29:08SPEAKERwhere once you got it past that point,
29:10SPEAKERit would keep going on its own
29:12SPEAKERin a way that was very satisfying.
29:14SPEAKER- These were real big in the GameSpot office.
29:16SPEAKER- Yeah, you guys were the only people
29:17SPEAKERI ever knew that had them.
29:18SPEAKER- Yeah, that's the only reason I really know what this is.
29:20SPEAKERI never had one, but I mean, not just as a goof
29:23SPEAKERbecause it was fun to be able to eye them on your phone.
29:25SPEAKERLike these things, I started a GameSpot
29:27SPEAKERin January of '03.
29:29SPEAKERThese things were a big deal for ferrying information
29:32SPEAKERback to people like say at E3.
29:35SPEAKER- Oh yeah.
29:35SPEAKER- Like somebody is at the press conference.
29:38SPEAKERI mean, this is obviously way pre-streaming
29:40SPEAKERpress conferences online.
29:42SPEAKERSomebody's at the press conference,
29:43SPEAKERlike furiously thumb typing on this thing,
29:46SPEAKERsending news back to somebody in the E3 booth
29:48SPEAKERwho was writing it up and posting it straight into the CMS.
29:50SPEAKERLike we had a real scrappy, but efficient pipeline
29:54SPEAKERfor getting information onto the website as fast as possible.
29:56SPEAKER- It was funny, that kind of stuff.
30:02SPEAKERThey completely got the,
30:04SPEAKERhey, people are gonna use these things
30:06SPEAKERto do a lot of text messaging or messaging with text,
30:09SPEAKERnot necessarily text messaging.
30:12SPEAKERAnd then they completely missed
30:14SPEAKERall of the other stuff surrounding it
30:15SPEAKER'cause it didn't have a music player or any of that stuff.
30:18SPEAKERAnd that stuff kind of didn't,
30:20SPEAKERthose were all separate devices at this time,
30:23SPEAKERlike your cell phone and your music player.
30:25SPEAKERIf you had like an MP3 player,
30:27SPEAKERit was either a little flash-based thing
30:29SPEAKERor an iPod or some weird thing from China or whatever.
30:35SPEAKER- Well, that was the legendary Steve Jobs iPhone unveil,
30:39SPEAKERremember?
30:40SPEAKER- Yeah, it's three things.
30:41SPEAKER- Today we're announcing three products.
30:45SPEAKERAnyway, a lot of interesting stuff
30:47SPEAKERgoing on with mobile phones at this time.
30:49SPEAKER- Yeah, it was a weird time for mobile phones.
30:52SPEAKERDo you wanna talk about music piracy now?
30:55SPEAKER- Sure.
30:56SPEAKER- That seems like a good transition for this.
30:58SPEAKERWe can talk about what was going on
30:59SPEAKERwith how media worked back then.
31:02SPEAKERThis was the year that Napster shut down.
31:06SPEAKER- Yeah, or I guess I think they took service down in 2001,
31:08SPEAKERbut they declared bankruptcy in 2002.
31:11SPEAKER- Well, and this was during the time period
31:12SPEAKERwhen the music labels were starting to go after
31:16SPEAKERpeople who downloaded music.
31:19SPEAKERI don't think that it actually started yet.
31:20SPEAKERI think they'd just threatened to do it.
31:23SPEAKERBut Napster, at that period of time,
31:27SPEAKERNapster was a place where you could steal MP3s explicitly.
31:31SPEAKERThat was like 99% of the use.
31:34SPEAKERAnd what happened when the music industry shut down,
31:37SPEAKERgot Napster to shut down, basically,
31:39SPEAKERis that a bunch of similar networks
31:43SPEAKERthat were not centralized in the same way that Napster was,
31:45SPEAKERand thus were impossible to shut down,
31:47SPEAKERspun up like Kazaa and--
31:49SPEAKER- The Nutella.
31:52SPEAKER- Yeah, Nutella and a couple others.
31:55SPEAKERKazaa and Nutella were the two big ones.
31:57SPEAKERAnd then the music piracy never stopped.
31:59SPEAKERThis was the beginning of the end for the,
32:02SPEAKER"Hey, if I wanna listen to music, I have to buy a $17 CD."
32:05SPEAKER'Cause it wasn't too long after this
32:08SPEAKERthat Apple started selling tracks for 99 cents each
32:10SPEAKERon the iTunes store.
32:13SPEAKERBut yeah, the Napster shut down.
32:16SPEAKERSome people were, this was a weird time for music stuff,
32:19SPEAKER'cause I had a friend who would, couple times a year,
32:23SPEAKERhave people over at his house
32:24SPEAKERand everybody would bring hard drives.
32:25SPEAKERAnd you'd just all swap everybody's music.
32:28SPEAKERLike you'd bring, he had requirements.
32:30SPEAKERHe was like really, he was very much on the,
32:33SPEAKER"Hey, you have to don't bring your garbage
32:36SPEAKER"96 kilobit MP3s.
32:38SPEAKER"I want, yeah, only bring good curated files.
32:42SPEAKER"You know the tags are good," all that kind of stuff.
32:44SPEAKERAnd then you'd just plug in your hard drive
32:46SPEAKERinto one central computer
32:47SPEAKERand he'd drag everybody's stuff into different folders.
32:49SPEAKERAnd you'd have some beers and hang out with some people.
32:52SPEAKERBut it was a weird way to experience music, I guess.
32:56SPEAKER- Also a fun stereotype from this era.
32:58SPEAKERI don't think, I didn't really experience this
33:00SPEAKERthat I recall, but the stereotype of downloading songs
33:03SPEAKERfrom these services that were extremely mislabeled,
33:06SPEAKERlike the wrong band.
33:07SPEAKER- Oh yeah, that happens all the time.
33:08SPEAKER- There's like this whole phenomenon
33:09SPEAKERof people realizing years later
33:11SPEAKERthat some of their favorite songs
33:12SPEAKERare a totally different band than they thought.
33:15SPEAKER- Yeah, what was it?
33:16SPEAKERPeople would also do like,
33:19SPEAKERthe music labels were trying to fight piracy
33:21SPEAKERby putting music that they thought people would hate
33:24SPEAKERin like, I want to say it was a Madonna track
33:27SPEAKERthat they relabeled and they put some polka
33:31SPEAKERor like Pat Boone or something up on.
33:34SPEAKERI can't remember.
33:35SPEAKER- That was a really stupid time.
33:37SPEAKER- It was an extremely, extremely stupid time.
33:40SPEAKERSo yeah, but this set the stage for,
33:45SPEAKERA, both the music services.
33:46SPEAKERI feel like Listen.com started around this time.
33:48SPEAKERI didn't put on the list.
33:50SPEAKERBut Listen.com came out of, I think, real networks.
33:55SPEAKERAnd the player started in, I guess it started later.
33:58SPEAKERIt was 2003, Rhapsody.
34:00SPEAKER- Okay.
34:01SPEAKEROh, Rhapsody is what Apple bought
34:03SPEAKERand turned to iTunes, isn't it?
34:04SPEAKER- No.
34:05SPEAKER- Never mind my thinking of something else.
34:06SPEAKER- No, I don't think they turned anything into iTunes.
34:08SPEAKERI think it was always-
34:09SPEAKER- I don't think that's, are you sure?
34:10SPEAKER- Pretty sure.
34:11SPEAKERYou're thinking about Music Match Shookbox, I think.
34:14SPEAKER- No, I'm 100% right.
34:16SPEAKER- Oh really?
34:17SPEAKERThey bought Rhapsody?
34:18SPEAKER- Well, hang on.
34:19SPEAKEROh no, I'm sorry.
34:19SPEAKERNevermind.
34:20SPEAKERI'm not right.
34:21SPEAKERI just did a control F on the Wikipedia page for iTunes.
34:26SPEAKER- Oh yeah, it was a competitor.
34:29SPEAKER- Sorry.
34:31SPEAKERSound Jam MP.
34:32SPEAKERI'm sorry.
34:34SPEAKERSound Jam MP released by Cassidy and Green in 1999
34:37SPEAKERwas renamed iTunes when Apple purchased it the next year.
34:41SPEAKER- Interesting.
34:42SPEAKER- Nobody's ever heard of Sound Jam MP.
34:44SPEAKER- No.
34:46SPEAKERSo Rhapsody was a legal streaming service
34:51SPEAKERthat was bought by listen.com in 2001
34:56SPEAKERand became listen.com eventually
34:59SPEAKERand then was bought by Real Music.
35:01SPEAKERThat was like a place you could pay 10 bucks a month
35:03SPEAKERand you got access to a whole big giant library of music.
35:07SPEAKERNow it wasn't any of the big label music that you wanted.
35:10SPEAKERI mean, it was a little bit of that,
35:11SPEAKERbut it was a lot of like indie artists and stuff like that.
35:13SPEAKERIt was kind of like a proto band camp type situation,
35:17SPEAKERbut it was a pay once and you get access to it
35:20SPEAKERbased on listens and stuff like that.
35:22SPEAKER- Yeah, last thing I'll say about music piracy here.
35:24SPEAKERThis feels like around the time
35:25SPEAKERthe CDRs were becoming really commodified.
35:28SPEAKER- This was when you could go to your big box store
35:31SPEAKERand get a stack of CD, like a spindle of CDs
35:33SPEAKERwith no jewel cases for like a dollar a disc or something.
35:37SPEAKER- And the drives were becoming much more affordable
35:39SPEAKERand widespread and there were more models.
35:40SPEAKERLike I remember CDRs being around
35:43SPEAKERas early as like '98-ish, '99.
35:45SPEAKER- Yeah, but this was prime.
35:47SPEAKERHey, let me just burn that for you.
35:50SPEAKER- Right, I think I knew about those stuff earlier
35:53SPEAKERbecause CDRs were showing up in let's say circles
35:57SPEAKERthat enjoyed playing PlayStation games a lot or Saturn games.
36:01SPEAKERBut then later, this feels like around the time
36:04SPEAKERthat just kind of everybody was getting a CDR
36:06SPEAKERand burning CDs.
36:07SPEAKER- Yeah, it was also, I'm trying to think,
36:12SPEAKERit was also around the time
36:14SPEAKERthat you started seeing music CD players
36:17SPEAKERthat could play discs full of MP3s
36:18SPEAKERif they were formatted, right?
36:20SPEAKER- Yep, yep.
36:21SPEAKER- And that was like, that led to the question
36:26SPEAKERwhen somebody was, when you were like,
36:27SPEAKERhey, I just got that new blah, blah, blah.
36:29SPEAKERAnd they were like, oh, can I,
36:32SPEAKERwould you want me to make you a copy of it?
36:33SPEAKERAnd you'd be like, oh yeah, sure.
36:35SPEAKERAnd they'd have to ask the question,
36:37SPEAKERdo you want MP3s?
36:37SPEAKERDo you want the CD-ROM?
36:39SPEAKERDo you want to burn like CD audio?
36:42SPEAKERI had to replace the head unit in my car
36:45SPEAKERbecause it didn't work right with CDRs
36:47SPEAKERand it annoyed me at a really high level.
36:49SPEAKER- I believe it. - Yeah, I did.
36:51SPEAKER- Real quick, let me just mention,
36:52SPEAKERsince we talked about Apple,
36:53SPEAKERthe iMac G4 came out in January.
36:56SPEAKER- Yeah.
36:57SPEAKER- Which was the, it was only the second model of iMac.
36:58SPEAKERI mean, everybody remembers the original teal.
37:01SPEAKERWhat is the name of that teal?
37:02SPEAKERI can't remember.
37:03SPEAKER- Candy, they called them candy.
37:05SPEAKEROh, there's a blue?
37:05SPEAKER- Yeah, there's another, there's a name for that blue
37:07SPEAKERthat escapes me right, anyway.
37:08SPEAKER- They did a whole rainbow of them
37:09SPEAKERfor the educational market.
37:11SPEAKER- Everybody remembers the CRT original iMac,
37:13SPEAKERbut this was the second iMac, the first one to use an LCD.
37:16SPEAKERI always thought that thing had a cool swivel on it.
37:18SPEAKERI think I might've seen one in person once.
37:20SPEAKERIt's the one that has the giant, heavy, fat, big,
37:23SPEAKERlike half dome.
37:24SPEAKER- That's where the computer is
37:25SPEAKERand the big dome base looking thing.
37:28SPEAKERAnd then the LCD is on this like big articulating metal arm.
37:32SPEAKER- It's got like two joints, yeah.
37:33SPEAKER- I mean, talk about some Frutiger Aero-ass Y2K design.
37:37SPEAKERThat thing is right there.
37:39SPEAKER- I think that one's less bad than the original iMacs.
37:42SPEAKER- I like that one.
37:43SPEAKERI think that one is a cool design.
37:44SPEAKER- I think it's cool, yeah, yeah, yeah.
37:45SPEAKERThere was one at the flea market a few months ago.
37:47SPEAKER- Oh, did I see that?
37:49SPEAKERMaybe I saw that, I don't know.
37:50SPEAKER- It was the first one we went to this.
37:52SPEAKERAnyway, it doesn't matter, but those show up
37:54SPEAKERmore often than you'd think.
37:55SPEAKERLike that was like the front reception computer
37:59SPEAKERat every startup in San Francisco,
38:01SPEAKERevery big company in San Francisco for a really long time.
38:05SPEAKERAlso that year-
38:05SPEAKER- Oh, this is cool, I'm sorry.
38:07SPEAKER- Oh, yeah?
38:08SPEAKER- I don't know if you've ever seen
38:09SPEAKERthat YouTube channel, Action Retro.
38:10SPEAKER- Yeah.
38:11SPEAKER- Dude that just does a lot of old computer stuff.
38:13SPEAKERI just found a video of him taking an iMac G4 chassis
38:15SPEAKERand putting an M4, like I don't know what he gutted.
38:18SPEAKERProbably a Mac Mini, I guess is what he crammed in there,
38:21SPEAKERbut that's kind of a neat idea.
38:23SPEAKER- That's funny.
38:24SPEAKER- Anyway.
38:25SPEAKER- This was also the year that Apple
38:27SPEAKERdid their first iPod rev.
38:28SPEAKERSo the original iPod had come out a couple of years before.
38:33SPEAKERIt had a mechanical touch wheel.
38:35SPEAKERSo this is the first time that they did
38:37SPEAKERa capacitive touch wheel on the iPad.
38:40SPEAKER- You mean the original one had a mechanical-
38:42SPEAKER- The original one had a mechanical wheel.
38:44SPEAKERThis one I think was still FireWire.
38:47SPEAKERIt still had the four kind of buttons
38:49SPEAKERaround the edge of the wheel.
38:50SPEAKERSo the center of the wheel was clicky,
38:52SPEAKERbut the wheel wasn't on a rocker like the later models were.
38:55SPEAKERAnd yeah, it was replacing the moving part basically
39:01SPEAKERwith a capacitive touch surface,
39:03SPEAKERwhich was I think the first time
39:04SPEAKERthat came up on an Apple device.
39:06SPEAKER- Big things coming for capacitive touch down the line.
39:09SPEAKER- It turns out the two things that we just,
39:11SPEAKERthe LCD screens and the capacitive touch,
39:13SPEAKERboth really important for the future of Apple.
39:15SPEAKER- Yeah.
39:16SPEAKER- Do you want to talk about some game stuff?
39:18SPEAKER- Sure.
39:19SPEAKERI mean, DirectX 9 launched.
39:20SPEAKER- Oh, okay, that was a big one.
39:22SPEAKER- That was, I would argue that that's the beginning
39:24SPEAKERof like modern gaming.
39:26SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, sure.
39:28SPEAKERWell, you could make a case for 8 as well, but-
39:30SPEAKER- Maybe for 8, but 8 had,
39:33SPEAKERthis is what unified the shader languages more,
39:35SPEAKERand you ended up with something that was much more cohesive
39:39SPEAKERacross hardware platforms.
39:40SPEAKER- DX9 is the Half-Life 2 one to me,
39:43SPEAKERor that's the one that enabled Half-Life 2.
39:45SPEAKERAnd in fact, like DX9 was around forever.
39:47SPEAKERLike, as I recall.
39:49SPEAKER- Well, not forever.
39:50SPEAKERI think DX10 launched with Vista, right?
39:51SPEAKERWasn't that the big to-do or kerfuffle was the Vista.
39:55SPEAKERThey made DirectX 10 Vista exclusive,
39:57SPEAKERand a lot of people got mad that they had to upgrade
39:59SPEAKERto the shitty new Windows to play new games.
40:01SPEAKER- Well, most of the games that you had to upgrade
40:04SPEAKERto the shitty new Windows, I guess Crysis required DX10.
40:07SPEAKER- I want to say there was a Halo PC port that used DX10,
40:11SPEAKERand they were kind of locking that behind Vista,
40:13SPEAKERif I'm not mistaken.
40:14SPEAKER- So I was going to say all of those games for Windows Live,
40:17SPEAKERthey never made, all of those games for Windows games,
40:19SPEAKERthey never made a Windows XP port of games for Windows.
40:24SPEAKERSo in order to play Fallout 3, Shadowrun, or Shadowgate,
40:29SPEAKERall of those kind of games that Halo,
40:31SPEAKERthe Halo, was it Halo 1 or Halo 2?
40:35SPEAKER- Uh, 1.
40:36SPEAKER2 never came to PC.
40:37SPEAKER- Yeah, so the Halo 1. - I don't think I recall.
40:39SPEAKER- The Halo 1 port, all of that stuff,
40:41SPEAKERthey tied behind the games for Windows APIs.
40:47SPEAKERThat was their way of pushing you forward.
40:49SPEAKER- Yeah, so all that to say, DX9 was not
40:52SPEAKERquite as long-lived as, or I guess maybe I should
40:55SPEAKERmodify that statement and say DX9 was supported
40:57SPEAKERfor a very long time, games continued to come out
41:00SPEAKERusing DX9 for quite a while.
41:02SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, I think there's still,
41:05SPEAKERwe've seen DX9 games released as recently
41:07SPEAKERas probably eight or nine years ago
41:09SPEAKERin weird niche spaces, so.
41:11SPEAKER- Right, and that NVIDIA Remix tool is geared toward,
41:13SPEAKERin fact, DX9 is the API that that hooks into.
41:18SPEAKER- Yeah, so it's for games from this era.
41:21SPEAKERLet's see, what else we, oh, this is,
41:23SPEAKERthis is, this might be the big thing this year,
41:25SPEAKERis that online gaming came to, like, for real.
41:30SPEAKER- Consoles, yeah.
41:31SPEAKER- We'd had online games before on a handful of consoles,
41:33SPEAKERbut they were pretty limited, and this was the first time
41:35SPEAKERthere was a real, like, system-level kind of push
41:41SPEAKERwith Xbox Live.
41:42SPEAKER- Yeah, I was surprised I could even find a date
41:44SPEAKERfor the PlayStation 2 online functionality,
41:46SPEAKERbecause the whole deal with that thing
41:48SPEAKERwas that it was up to every game's developer
41:50SPEAKERto implement the online separately.
41:52SPEAKERSo I don't even know, I never really did much
41:55SPEAKERof anything online with PS2 unless I had to, like,
41:58SPEAKERreview a game that I needed to try it for or something,
42:00SPEAKER'cause it was such a pain in the ass
42:01SPEAKERhaving to set it up separately on every game.
42:03SPEAKERSo I don't remember, I don't remember what, if anything,
42:06SPEAKEReven existed at the PS2 system level
42:08SPEAKERfor the online functionality.
42:10SPEAKER- There wasn't, as I recall, so.
42:12SPEAKERI don't think there really, yeah,
42:13SPEAKERI don't think there was much of anything.
42:15SPEAKER- You got an IP address at the system level, I think.
42:17SPEAKER- No, I'm pretty sure I remember having to punch in,
42:19SPEAKERlike, subnet masks and shit like that into games.
42:22SPEAKER- Tony Hawk or something, yeah.
42:23SPEAKER- I'm pretty sure, I could be wrong about that.
42:26SPEAKERWeirdly, so I think this might've come out earlier in Japan,
42:29SPEAKERand also there were a bunch of, like, USB modems in Japan
42:32SPEAKERthat came out for the PS2 made by different companies.
42:36SPEAKERThere was one, oh gosh, I don't know if I can find it now.
42:40SPEAKER- PS2 didn't have ethernet, right?
42:42SPEAKER- Not until, so the hard drive add-on
42:44SPEAKERthat came out alongside Final Fantasy XI
42:46SPEAKERthat had a full fat three and a half inch hard drive in it
42:49SPEAKERalso had an ethernet port.
42:50SPEAKERAnd then later, do you remember the wafer fin?
42:53SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah. - The PS2 slim?
42:55SPEAKERThat did have ethernet. - That's the one I bought,
42:58SPEAKERwas the slim.
42:59SPEAKER- That one did have ethernet stock,
43:00SPEAKERbut the original one did not.
43:01SPEAKERI have got to find the name of that USB modem.
43:03SPEAKERI was looking at it last night.
43:04SPEAKERIt is the most delightful product name.
43:07SPEAKER- So while you're doing that, while you're looking for that,
43:09SPEAKERI remember the first- - I found it, I'm sorry.
43:12SPEAKERHere it is.
43:13SPEAKEROkay, in November, 2000, the Sun Corporation,
43:16SPEAKERand that's a Japanese Sun Corporation,
43:17SPEAKERnot Sun Microsystems, released the,
43:21SPEAKERokay, actually, I'm not sure which order
43:23SPEAKERthis is to be read in.
43:24SPEAKERIt's either the, it is either the Enjoy Magic, one word,
43:29SPEAKEROnline Station, one word,
43:32SPEAKERor the Online Station, one word, Enjoy Magic, one word.
43:36SPEAKER- I think both work.
43:38SPEAKER- I'll allow either of those.
43:40SPEAKERThat's a pretty good name.
43:42SPEAKER- Enjoy Magic.
43:43SPEAKER- Enjoy Magic.
43:45SPEAKERSo I remember the first time I saw a multiplayer game
43:49SPEAKERrunning on the console, I want to say Next Gen Magazine
43:53SPEAKERhad gotten Tony Hawk,
43:56SPEAKERwhich Tony Hawk had the airport level, was it four?
43:58SPEAKER- Gosh, I am not the internet's foremost expert
44:01SPEAKERon Tony Hawk levels at all.
44:03SPEAKER- I think it was four.
44:04SPEAKERIt was either three or four.
44:05SPEAKER- Probably was four by this time, if I had to guess,
44:09SPEAKER'cause wasn't three a PS1 game?
44:13SPEAKER- Two I played on Dreamcast, I think.
44:16SPEAKER- Ask me anything about the Tony Hawk series, okay?
44:18SPEAKERFour came out in 2002, so it's gotta be that one.
44:20SPEAKER- Okay, so yeah, they'd gotten Tony Hawk 4,
44:25SPEAKERand they had the ethernet adapter,
44:27SPEAKERand they plugged in their PlayStation,
44:28SPEAKERand they needed help getting it connected to the WiFi,
44:31SPEAKERor to the network, because you had to go in
44:33SPEAKERand manually put in the IP address and stuff like that.
44:36SPEAKERIt didn't work with DHCP for whatever,
44:39SPEAKERprobably for the beta version they had or something.
44:41SPEAKERBut we fired that up,
44:42SPEAKERand they were playing Tony Hawk on the internet
44:46SPEAKERwith full lag, 90s-style first-person shooter lag,
44:50SPEAKERwhere people are zooping around like crazy.
44:52SPEAKERIt was really wild.
44:53SPEAKERAnd then a couple months later, Xbox Live came out,
44:56SPEAKERand all of a sudden supported voice
44:58SPEAKERand all sorts of crazy stuff
44:59SPEAKERthat people had never really seen on the consoles before.
45:02SPEAKER- Yes, now that was a proper,
45:03SPEAKERI mean, we've talked about it before,
45:05SPEAKERbut that was a proper system-level online implementation,
45:09SPEAKERas it should be.
45:11SPEAKER- Yeah, that's another one of those candidates
45:12SPEAKERfor, hey, this technology changed everything.
45:15SPEAKER- Set up once, yeah, we did one of those episodes
45:17SPEAKERon the 360, which I think was the full realization
45:19SPEAKERof this idea. - Yeah, that's probably right.
45:21SPEAKER- But yes, this was the first one to do it,
45:23SPEAKERand that was a big deal.
45:26SPEAKER- Yeah, and I remember playing golf and Halo 2,
45:32SPEAKERand all sorts, I mean, Halo 2 is much later, I guess,
45:34SPEAKERbut all sorts of stuff.
45:37SPEAKER- You wanna do a movie one?
45:38SPEAKERI have flagged a movie thing from this year.
45:41SPEAKER- Yeah, this was the great era of rag dolls.
45:46SPEAKER- Let me try this, let me try this framing on for size.
45:49SPEAKERMay 16th, "Attack of the Clones" came out.
45:51SPEAKER- Yeah.
45:52SPEAKER- December 18th, "Lord of the Rings,
45:54SPEAKER"the Two Towers" came out.
45:55SPEAKER- Okay.
45:56SPEAKER- I've kind of like loosely described this
45:59SPEAKERas the year that digital cinema really got going,
46:02SPEAKERboth in projection and in visual effects and filmmaking.
46:05SPEAKER- Was "Lord of the Rings" shot digitally?
46:07SPEAKER- No, no, no, but that's why I'm very broadly
46:10SPEAKERdescribing this as "Attack of the Clones"
46:12SPEAKERwas the first movie shot in digital.
46:14SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
46:15SPEAKER- Or at least the first major commercial one.
46:17SPEAKERThere might be some very obscure example,
46:19SPEAKERbut famously, they were using beta versions
46:22SPEAKERof Sony HD cameras on that movie
46:25SPEAKERthat have not even been finalized yet.
46:27SPEAKERNo, "Lord of the Rings" all shot on film, but-
46:29SPEAKER- And they didn't shoot Phantom Menace digitally?
46:31SPEAKER- No.
46:32SPEAKER- Some of that was shot.
46:33SPEAKER- There's like one scene,
46:34SPEAKERand I wanna say it's the scene of Obi-Wan talking to Yoda
46:37SPEAKERat the very end of Phantom Menace
46:39SPEAKERwas the one that was shot digitally, maybe.
46:41SPEAKER- Weird, okay.
46:41SPEAKER- I could be wrong, but 99% of Phantom Menace
46:45SPEAKERis shot on 35 millimeter, but-
46:46SPEAKER- Okay.
46:47SPEAKER- So, but yeah, like I said,
46:49SPEAKERI'm casting a very wide net here,
46:50SPEAKERbut so "Attack of the Clones" shot digitally,
46:53SPEAKERand also that might be the first movie
46:55SPEAKERI ever saw projected digitally.
46:57SPEAKERI could be wrong. - Oh, I saw that
46:58SPEAKERat the twin behind "Stone's Town,"
46:59SPEAKERand it was absolutely not projected digitally there.
47:02SPEAKER- So I saw it, I saw the midnight showing
47:04SPEAKERat the Chinese Theater in Hollywood.
47:06SPEAKER- Wow.
47:07SPEAKER- And I believe that was on film,
47:08SPEAKERbut then I saw it again that night
47:11SPEAKERat the theater across,
47:11SPEAKERwhatever the theater across the street
47:13SPEAKERfrom the Chinese Theater is.
47:14SPEAKER- You must really love "Sand."
47:15SPEAKER- Uh, it was an experience.
47:17SPEAKER- How were you feeling after that first one
47:20SPEAKERabout the fact that you already bought tickets
47:21SPEAKERto a second showing?
47:22SPEAKER- Very torn.
47:23SPEAKER- Yeah, okay.
47:24SPEAKER- Actually, very mixed on,
47:26SPEAKERI mean, I went ahead and saw it again that night,
47:28SPEAKERI was like, I'd, enthusiasm, whatever,
47:32SPEAKERwe don't need to get into this.
47:33SPEAKER- Did people, like, hold on, I'm curious,
47:34SPEAKER'cause I went to the twin behind "Stone's Town,"
47:38SPEAKERwhich is like an old, I think, United Artists Theater,
47:41SPEAKERso it's like, if you've been to one of those,
47:42SPEAKERyou know it, 'cause the designs were all the same
47:44SPEAKERacross the entire country,
47:45SPEAKEReveryone I've been to was the same.
47:47SPEAKERAnd when I was in line for that midnight showing,
47:51SPEAKERthere were a bunch of people in like Jedi and Sith robes,
47:54SPEAKERpeople were like, there were like,
47:57SPEAKERunlike any of the other "Star Wars" movie screenings
47:59SPEAKERI've ever been to, there were people in costume
48:01SPEAKERand like ready to go, like they were there for it,
48:04SPEAKERthey were in for it,
48:05SPEAKERand by the time they got to the Count Dooku-Yoda fight
48:08SPEAKERat the end, people were like cackling
48:10SPEAKERand actively heckling the movie.
48:13SPEAKER- The theater went absolutely wild
48:15SPEAKERwhen he pulled out that lightsaber
48:16SPEAKERand started flipping around,
48:17SPEAKERand I think like in an earnest way,
48:19SPEAKERI don't think they were necessarily mocking it.
48:22SPEAKER- There was a guy in full Jedi robes
48:24SPEAKERthat got up and walked out.
48:25SPEAKER- Wow, man.
48:28SPEAKERMy recollection is the response to that scene
48:30SPEAKERin the Chinese theater was one of extreme jubilation.
48:33SPEAKER- Okay, I like, I was into it.
48:35SPEAKERI remain, I still think like,
48:38SPEAKERlook, for me, this era of movies
48:41SPEAKERis kind of the dark period of digital filmmaking
48:45SPEAKERwhere we had technology to do a bunch of stuff
48:47SPEAKERthat was never before possible,
48:49SPEAKERbut not in the kind of invisible way that it is now
48:52SPEAKERwhen people do digital touch-ups on,
48:56SPEAKERwhether it's shot on film or digital or whatever,
48:57SPEAKERit doesn't matter.
48:58SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
48:59SPEAKER- And I think about like the abysmal ragdoll packages
49:03SPEAKERthat somebody sold to like,
49:05SPEAKERI mean, they used it in the Lord of the Rings movies,
49:08SPEAKERthey used it in the Harry Potter movies,
49:10SPEAKERthey used it in Star Wars,
49:11SPEAKERwhere you just had like bad late '90s era ragdolling
49:15SPEAKERin every scene that a human being could possibly ragdoll.
49:19SPEAKER- Sure.
49:20SPEAKER- And that, to me, is like the defining characteristic
49:23SPEAKERof that era.
49:25SPEAKERI hadn't thought about it being the,
49:26SPEAKER'cause this was, I saw Lord of the Rings,
49:28SPEAKERI saw the two towers digitally projected,
49:30SPEAKERand that was probably one,
49:32SPEAKERif not the first one of the first movies.
49:34SPEAKERActually, that's not true.
49:35SPEAKERI think I got invited to a Phantom Menace digital screening
49:38SPEAKERwhen I think about it,
49:39SPEAKERwhen they had that projector set up at the AMC.
49:42SPEAKERSo they said Lucas--
49:43SPEAKER- Was that like a special tech demo
49:44SPEAKERthat Lucasfilm was doing?
49:45SPEAKER- Yeah, Lucasfilm set up in 2000, maybe?
49:50SPEAKERLike mid-2000s.
49:51SPEAKER- Oh, this was after the movie had been out for a while?
49:54SPEAKER- This was toward, this was late in the run,
49:57SPEAKERif not after the run.
49:59SPEAKERThey installed a digital projector at the AMC Van Ness
50:03SPEAKERin San Francisco for like a month.
50:05SPEAKERAnd they screened it there. - Oh, I think I remember
50:07SPEAKERreading about that.
50:08SPEAKERYeah, I think I remember news stories about that, actually.
50:11SPEAKER- I think, I could be wrong. - Interesting.
50:12SPEAKER- But anyway.
50:13SPEAKER- Oh, that was an interesting time just for projection,
50:15SPEAKERlike all the other filmmaking stuff aside.
50:16SPEAKERLike, I don't know if you remember,
50:17SPEAKERthat's around the time that Roger Ebert
50:20SPEAKERgot really behind this traditional film projection technique.
50:23SPEAKERIf there's a name for it, I'd have to go look it up.
50:25SPEAKERLike he wrote multiple articles about it.
50:26SPEAKERHe was so jazzed about it.
50:29SPEAKERIt was film projection, but it was mechanically stabilized.
50:31SPEAKERLike there was some, I don't know,
50:34SPEAKERI had never seen the rig.
50:35SPEAKERI have no idea how they were doing it,
50:36SPEAKERbut I have to imagine it was employing principles
50:38SPEAKERsimilar to like Steadicam and stuff like that,
50:40SPEAKERwhere the projector in the theater
50:41SPEAKERwas mechanically stabilized to give you like zero jitter
50:44SPEAKERon the projection.
50:45SPEAKERLike it was perfectly stable.
50:47SPEAKERAnd I think that film system also went up to 48 FPS,
50:50SPEAKERmaybe if I'm honest.
50:51SPEAKERAnyway.
50:52SPEAKER- Well, that's a mistake.
50:53SPEAKERWe all know that now.
50:54SPEAKER- There were all kinds of weird,
50:55SPEAKERlike evolutionary dead ends going on with film projection
50:57SPEAKERat that time before everything just kind of ended up
50:59SPEAKERat digital 'cause he was not a big digital guy.
51:01SPEAKERBut anyway.
51:01SPEAKER- I mean, look, looking back on that stuff now,
51:04SPEAKERa lot of that digital from that period was kind of rough.
51:07SPEAKER- Oh yeah, I know.
51:07SPEAKERI mean, like it was back in the clones.
51:10SPEAKER- Yeah.
51:11SPEAKER- Like famously, that footage is 1080p.
51:12SPEAKERLike the source raw footage they shot was 1080p
51:14SPEAKERfor that movie.
51:15SPEAKERAnd also like that's setting aside that like cinematographers
51:18SPEAKERdid not know and makeup artists and stuff didn't know
51:20SPEAKERwhat to do with the new digital capture yet.
51:22SPEAKERSo like the skin tones look super weird
51:25SPEAKERand people's makeup is very obvious and blah.
51:28SPEAKERAnyway, it was a bumpy time,
51:30SPEAKERbut like Lucas was always more about like pushing things
51:33SPEAKERforward as fast as possible,
51:35SPEAKEReven if it was kind of weird and janky
51:36SPEAKERthan like trying to make it perfect.
51:39SPEAKERSo.
51:40SPEAKER- Well, and it was also the beginning
51:45SPEAKERof the digital actors, right?
51:46SPEAKERSo the digital performers.
51:47SPEAKER- Yes.
51:48SPEAKERSo that was the other reason.
51:48SPEAKERAnd that's probably the biggest reason
51:50SPEAKERI looped Two Towers in here.
51:51SPEAKERSo it's like clones is like digital projection
51:54SPEAKERand shot on digital hammers.
51:56SPEAKERTwo Towers, I mean, obviously like Jar Jar
51:58SPEAKERis the big breakout.
51:59SPEAKEROh, here's the first full digital character.
52:01SPEAKERBut like, I feel like Gollum in Two Towers
52:03SPEAKERis the first one where you heard people going like this,
52:05SPEAKERthis character could win an Oscar.
52:06SPEAKERLike this performance is like crazy.
52:09SPEAKER- Yeah, it was the first time it was good.
52:10SPEAKER- Yeah.
52:11SPEAKER- Yeah.
52:12SPEAKERAnd it was like, I remember the conversation
52:17SPEAKERabout digital Yoda versus puppet,
52:20SPEAKEREmpire Strikes Back Yoda versus Phantom Menace,
52:22SPEAKERAttack of the Clones Yoda is the conversation
52:27SPEAKERwas Frank Oz being like, oh, look,
52:29SPEAKERI see all the errors in my puppetry
52:30SPEAKERthat these digital guys have brought forward
52:32SPEAKERand it bumps me out.
52:34SPEAKERBut also it doesn't have the same gremlin vibe
52:39SPEAKERas puppet Yoda from Empire, right?
52:42SPEAKERI feel like there was a lot of actors
52:46SPEAKERlearning how to talk to tennis balls
52:48SPEAKERand we hadn't gotten to the point where like--
52:49SPEAKER- Oh yeah, oh yeah.
52:50SPEAKER- People were putting the eye line thing on,
52:52SPEAKERbut let the performer stay in the scene
52:54SPEAKERso that they could, like the other actors
52:56SPEAKERhad something to work against.
52:58SPEAKER- This is, I mean, this is still like years
52:59SPEAKERbefore Ian McKellen weeping on the set
53:02SPEAKERat having to act against nothing.
53:04SPEAKER- Yeah.
53:06SPEAKER- Anyway--
53:07SPEAKER- It wasn't that far before that, was it?
53:08SPEAKER- I'm pretty sure that was in The Hobbit.
53:10SPEAKER- Oh.
53:11SPEAKER- I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure
53:13SPEAKERthat infamous incident was from The Hobbit,
53:15SPEAKERwhich is years after this.
53:16SPEAKER- Oh, I didn't know that.
53:18SPEAKER- But anyway, like there was just,
53:19SPEAKERthere was a lot going on in filmmaking,
53:21SPEAKERfilm production, film projection,
53:23SPEAKERlike the move to digital filmmaking was like,
53:26SPEAKERobviously had begun years earlier,
53:28SPEAKERbut was like seriously underway at this point.
53:31SPEAKER- Yeah, let's see, a couple of digital culture things,
53:35SPEAKERI guess is what I would put these under.
53:39SPEAKERIt's like, this was the era of IM, of instant messaging,
53:43SPEAKERAIM and ICQ and MSN Messenger,
53:46SPEAKERand I feel like there was at least one other
53:48SPEAKERthat I'm not remembering.
53:49SPEAKER- I remember Yahoo! Messenger.
53:50SPEAKER- Oh yeah, nobody used Yahoo! Messenger though.
53:54SPEAKER- I had accounts on all of them because I knew like,
53:57SPEAKERin every case, I knew like one or two people
53:59SPEAKERthat only used MSN or only used Yahoo!
54:01SPEAKER- This was before Google Chat started,
54:03SPEAKERbut they came to that shortly after this.
54:06SPEAKERIt was a weird time for how,
54:10SPEAKER'cause like you either had five different clients open
54:14SPEAKER'cause none of them were cross compatible with each other,
54:15SPEAKERor you used some kind of bootleg third party client
54:19SPEAKERlike Trillion or Pigeon or one of those.
54:22SPEAKER- I had used Trillion and then moved Pigeon later.
54:24SPEAKER- Yeah, it was definitely a weird time for that.
54:27SPEAKERThe other thing is blogs, this was the era of the blog.
54:29SPEAKERLike this was, hey, you can publish stuff online
54:33SPEAKERfor pretty inexpensively to free.
54:37SPEAKERBlogger had been around for a few years,
54:38SPEAKERMovable Type released in 2001,
54:41SPEAKERand both of those made it easy for you
54:43SPEAKERto either pay somebody five bucks a month to host a blog
54:46SPEAKERor self-host on a time slice server or something like that,
54:50SPEAKERor host it in your bedroom like I did.
54:53SPEAKERThat was an insane thing to do in retrospect,
54:55SPEAKERbut yeah, and it kind of,
55:00SPEAKERwhen WordPress released the next year,
55:02SPEAKERthat became the face of corporate,
55:05SPEAKEReverything from corporate websites to like personal blogs,
55:08SPEAKERto photo, like all the,
55:10SPEAKERso many businesses were built on WordPress at that time.
55:14SPEAKERIt was kind of wild.
55:15SPEAKER- Yeah, and also, again, to go back to the GameSpot subject,
55:19SPEAKERwe're only a year or two or three out from like the blog,
55:22SPEAKERquote unquote, becoming like the maybe,
55:26SPEAKERif not the journalistic outlet of record online,
55:29SPEAKERlike the hot new kind of format.
55:32SPEAKERI mean, this was, Gawker was starting at this time period.
55:35SPEAKER- Right, that's exactly what I mean.
55:36SPEAKERLike, or, you know, it's Kotaku in our case
55:38SPEAKERwhere it's like, oh, you know,
55:39SPEAKERwe do this very traditional, like somewhat stuffy,
55:41SPEAKERformal style of news coverage,
55:43SPEAKERand then like here come these like,
55:45SPEAKERhere come these fucking rebellious upstart bloggers
55:47SPEAKERjust writing about whatever they want
55:49SPEAKERand talking all this shit,
55:50SPEAKERand it's like, what is happening?
55:52SPEAKER- This is a weird time.
55:53SPEAKER- Real quick, I'm just gonna touch on,
55:55SPEAKERsince you mentioned IM again here,
55:56SPEAKERand the T-Mobile sidekicks slash danger hip-top
56:00SPEAKERwas a big IM device.
56:01SPEAKERI did not know that Andy Rubin was a co-founder of danger,
56:04SPEAKERAndy Rubin who created Android.
56:06SPEAKER- Yep, he went from danger to Google to do it,
56:09SPEAKERor to start Android and then got bought by Google.
56:11SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, so that dude has had a profound effect
56:15SPEAKERon the mobile industry.
56:17SPEAKER- A couple other technology hits.
56:19SPEAKERThis was the year that Dyson introduced
56:20SPEAKERtheir bagless vacuum, so this is the cyclone thing
56:23SPEAKERthat has become every Dyson stick vacuum ever,
56:26SPEAKERand prior to that, most vacuums had some sort of
56:29SPEAKERbag slash filter separator
56:32SPEAKERthat was a friggin' nightmare to clean.
56:34SPEAKERNow look, the cyclonic vacuums
56:37SPEAKERhave their own unique set of problems.
56:39SPEAKER- So does Mr. Dyson, but that's a separate subject.
56:43SPEAKER- Problematic in multiple levels, I think, yeah.
56:46SPEAKERIt was also the year the Roomba, the first Roomba came out.
56:48SPEAKERSo this was the hey, you can vacuum new and good with one,
56:54SPEAKERand the other one is just don't even bother,
56:56SPEAKERthe machine will do it.
56:57SPEAKERAnd the promise of that was not,
57:00SPEAKERlike we got one of those and it was underwhelming
57:04SPEAKERfor multiple levels, despite us living in a hardwood floor
57:07SPEAKERloft with very little furniture.
57:09SPEAKERIt was basically a prime use case for it.
57:14SPEAKERBut yeah, it was like a little robot sweeper.
57:15SPEAKERIt was kinda nice.
57:16SPEAKER- Yeah. - Yeah.
57:17SPEAKER- It was the beginning of household robotics, though,
57:19SPEAKERI guess, which is, like that to me marks the beginning
57:22SPEAKERof hey, you can get a robot that will do a thing
57:25SPEAKERless good than you can do it,
57:26SPEAKERbut then you don't have to fool with it.
57:28SPEAKER- Yeah, I think all the rest of these are computing things.
57:32SPEAKER- Yeah, I think so.
57:34SPEAKER- CPUs, we started to touch on this earlier,
57:36SPEAKERbut you've written down some CPU stuff here.
57:40SPEAKER- Yeah, so this was the year we hit two gigahertz,
57:43SPEAKERthe second gen Netburst P4 chips, Northwood.
57:46SPEAKER- Yeah, I guess you're right.
57:47SPEAKERI'm thinking back, what was I running at that time?
57:49SPEAKERYeah, sure.
57:50SPEAKER- You were probably on a Thunderbird or something.
57:51SPEAKER- So I was, maybe I'll get to that.
57:52SPEAKERI won a Thunderbird around this time at a raffle,
57:56SPEAKERor I'll just say it now, like AMD,
57:58SPEAKERI was still living in Raleigh, North Carolina at the time,
58:00SPEAKERand AMD came through town and did some kind of event.
58:03SPEAKER- And you went to it?
58:04SPEAKER- Oh yeah, and it was like there were a lot of people.
58:05SPEAKERI mean, this is really in the thick of the Quake 3,
58:08SPEAKERlike the Unreal Tournament,
58:09SPEAKERlike PC competitive first-person shooters
58:13SPEAKERare huge at this point,
58:14SPEAKERand there were a lot of people at that thing,
58:15SPEAKERand I don't remember anything about what the event was
58:19SPEAKERother than I remember being in the middle of a big crowd,
58:21SPEAKERand they had some kind of raffle at the end,
58:23SPEAKERand I won a 1.2 gigahertz Athlon Thunderbird.
58:27SPEAKER- That's pretty good.
58:28SPEAKER- Which was pretty exciting,
58:29SPEAKER'cause I had like a much slower Duron at the time,
58:31SPEAKERand I just threw it right in that motherboard, and...
58:33SPEAKER- Oh, so you didn't have to buy a motherboard
58:35SPEAKERor new RAM or anything.
58:35SPEAKEROh, that's nice.
58:37SPEAKER- I was a huge AMD guy at that point already,
58:38SPEAKERso I just swapped my overclocked Duron out
58:40SPEAKERwith a better Thunderbird, and that was cool.
58:43SPEAKER- So the Northwood second-gen Netburst P4 chips,
58:51SPEAKERthe first-gen were...
58:53SPEAKERThe theory, and I don't know if this is true,
58:55SPEAKERI've never actually talked to anybody in Intel about it,
58:56SPEAKERbut the speculation at the time was
58:59SPEAKERthat the first-gen, they had rushed out
59:01SPEAKERbecause they got beaten to one gigahertz by AMD,
59:06SPEAKERand so they wanted to have the bigger number,
59:09SPEAKERbut the performance was actively kind of terrible
59:11SPEAKERon them at the time.
59:13SPEAKER- Weren't they super hard to cool also?
59:15SPEAKER- They were hot.
59:16SPEAKERThey had this really deep pipeline.
59:17SPEAKERIt was a completely new architecture.
59:19SPEAKERThe Intel lawyers, the Wikipedia article,
59:22SPEAKERI don't know if this is true,
59:22SPEAKERbut the Wikipedia article said that the lawyers
59:24SPEAKERwouldn't let them call these Pentium 3s
59:26SPEAKERbecause it was such a wildly different architecture,
59:31SPEAKERand it was designed to run real, real fast.
59:36SPEAKERThe deep pipelines really only worked
59:37SPEAKERif you were above a certain clock speed
59:39SPEAKERbecause otherwise the cache misses,
59:41SPEAKERthe misses on the pre-computers and stuff like that
59:43SPEAKERwould end up with a bunch of wasted cycles,
59:46SPEAKERso you needed way more cycles running
59:48SPEAKERso that you could get the predictions to hit
59:50SPEAKERand stuff like that.
59:52SPEAKERSo they hit two gigahertz
59:53SPEAKERand quickly kind of blew past there,
59:55SPEAKERbut also this is when they introduced hyper-threading.
59:58SPEAKERSo this was the beginning of,
59:59SPEAKERhey, you have two threads on one CPU,
1:00:03SPEAKERbecause these were all single-core CPUs at the time,
1:00:06SPEAKERmeant you had two threads, which was novel and exciting.
1:00:10SPEAKER- Yeah, what is AMD's name for hyper-threading?
1:00:12SPEAKER'Cause that's an Intel name.
1:00:14SPEAKER- I think they just call it hyper-threading.
1:00:16SPEAKER- No, that's a specific Intel.
1:00:18SPEAKER- Oh, really?
1:00:19SPEAKER- Simultaneous multi-threading, SMT is what AMD calls it.
1:00:23SPEAKER- God, I mean, that's what hyper-threading is too,
1:00:25SPEAKERI guess, technically.
1:00:26SPEAKER- Yeah, it's just a brand.
1:00:27SPEAKERThe reason I ask though is that Intel
1:00:28SPEAKERhas dropped hyper-threading, I assume you know.
1:00:30SPEAKER- Yeah, the core series chips don't have hyper-threading.
1:00:34SPEAKER- And Lunar Lake shipped without hyper-threading,
1:00:36SPEAKERbut they're bringing it back.
1:00:37SPEAKER- Oh, really?
1:00:38SPEAKER- The new CEO of Intel, like a year ago or something
1:00:42SPEAKERin some statement said, yeah, he said,
1:00:46SPEAKERI just looked that up this morning,
1:00:47SPEAKERhe said it was a mistake that it has put them
1:00:49SPEAKERat a competitive disadvantage to drop hyper-threading
1:00:51SPEAKERand that they are going to bring it back.
1:00:53SPEAKERIt does not sound like from rumors
1:00:55SPEAKERthat it will make it back in in time for Nova Lake.
1:00:57SPEAKER- It's interesting 'cause at that time
1:01:00SPEAKERit was a real mixed bag performance-wise.
1:01:04SPEAKERSome workloads really benefited from it.
1:01:06SPEAKER- Yeah, I think that's always been the case.
1:01:08SPEAKERI mean, by nature of how it works,
1:01:10SPEAKERthat is just inherent to it.
1:01:12SPEAKER- Well, I think the OS schedulers got better
1:01:14SPEAKERabout knowing about, like the conversation
1:01:17SPEAKERbetween the OS scheduler and the chip scheduler got better,
1:01:20SPEAKERthe thread scheduler on the chip got better
1:01:21SPEAKERat like determining when it should be used
1:01:24SPEAKERand when it shouldn't.
1:01:25SPEAKERBut yeah, it was, anyway, I think it's not noteworthy
1:01:31SPEAKERbecause, hey, it's kind of the beginning
1:01:32SPEAKERof the multi-threaded era with an asterisk, I guess.
1:01:35SPEAKER- Oh, I guess that was before the multi-core era,
1:01:37SPEAKERso you were getting two threads when you only had one core,
1:01:40SPEAKERso that was more meaningful at that time.
1:01:43SPEAKER- So there were, it wasn't, I mean,
1:01:45SPEAKERthere was multi-core prior to that,
1:01:48SPEAKERbut you were typically talking about like expensive,
1:01:51SPEAKERwell, in the socket seven days,
1:01:52SPEAKERyou could just put multiple socket seven chips on a board
1:01:54SPEAKERand it would work.
1:01:55SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, that's, yeah, that's.
1:01:58SPEAKER- At this time period, you had to buy workstation machines
1:02:01SPEAKERto get a board with two sockets,
1:02:02SPEAKERand they were usually, you're gonna laugh,
1:02:05SPEAKERbut like those boards were phenomenally expensive.
1:02:07SPEAKERThey were like 300 bucks to get the dual Xeon board,
1:02:11SPEAKERand you were probably buying two really expensive $800 CPUs
1:02:15SPEAKERto populate them, but yeah, it was a weird time.
1:02:19SPEAKER- Yeah, first Firefox release.
1:02:23SPEAKER- Yeah, turns out. - In 2002.
1:02:26SPEAKER- I don't know what version they're on now.
1:02:28SPEAKERI think it's, I think I'm on like 50 something maybe.
1:02:31SPEAKER- Yeah, versioning. - 150.0.3.
1:02:36SPEAKER- Versioning got kind of annoying
1:02:37SPEAKERwhen it became a competitive thing.
1:02:39SPEAKERLike, I mean, I think it's lightly competitive.
1:02:41SPEAKERI'm not sure anybody takes it that seriously, but like.
1:02:44SPEAKER- Not anymore, they did for a while though.
1:02:46SPEAKER- But also this is a well-known phenomenon,
1:02:48SPEAKERlike the Xbox 360 name exists
1:02:50SPEAKERbecause the PlayStation 3 was launching
1:02:51SPEAKERand they wanted their number to sound big too.
1:02:54SPEAKERSo it is kind of a thing, you know, but like when,
1:02:58SPEAKERI think Chrome might be at fault for this,
1:03:00SPEAKERlike the Chrome build number is large
1:03:02SPEAKERand other people it feels like started trying to move
1:03:04SPEAKERto a different versioning scheme in order to match that.
1:03:07SPEAKERI don't know, it's all done.
1:03:08SPEAKER- So when Firefox came out,
1:03:10SPEAKERInternet Explorer was the predominant browser.
1:03:14SPEAKERNetflix Navigator had kind of.
1:03:15SPEAKER- Netscape. - What did I say?
1:03:17SPEAKER- You said Netflix Navigator?
1:03:19SPEAKER- Oh yeah, Netscape Navigator, Jesus.
1:03:22SPEAKERKind of fell out of, fell out of vogue.
1:03:25SPEAKERThey hadn't been updating it.
1:03:26SPEAKERThe company maybe even was gone by this point.
1:03:29SPEAKERAnd Firefox rose from the ashes of that.
1:03:31SPEAKER- Yes, Netscape kind of defeated itself,
1:03:34SPEAKERreally fell apart of their own accord.
1:03:37SPEAKER- Some people would argue that there was
1:03:38SPEAKERan anti-competitive component to Netflix's collapse.
1:03:42SPEAKER- Yeah, but I was reading about the history of this recently
1:03:44SPEAKERbecause in fact, this was going around
1:03:45SPEAKERin programmer circles.
1:03:47SPEAKERI think somebody who writes a pretty popular
1:03:49SPEAKERprogramming blog did a piece on this.
1:03:51SPEAKERThat, was it Navigator 4, Netscape Navigator 4,
1:03:54SPEAKERI think was the one where they famously did
1:03:57SPEAKERclean sheet of paper, full redesign from the ground up,
1:03:59SPEAKERwhole new code base.
1:04:01SPEAKERAnd this blog post that was getting passed around
1:04:03SPEAKERwas a pretty well argued cautionary tale
1:04:05SPEAKERfor why you should never ever do that.
1:04:07SPEAKER- Oh.
1:04:08SPEAKER- And because when it finally came,
1:04:09SPEAKERit was enormously behind schedule and super buggy
1:04:12SPEAKERand missing features and just a real mess.
1:04:14SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:04:15SPEAKER- They basically missed the boat.
1:04:17SPEAKERI mean, yes, obviously Microsoft pulled some shit
1:04:19SPEAKERwith Internet Explorer, but also Netscape
1:04:22SPEAKERwas basically sitting on their hands
1:04:24SPEAKERfor like two years or something,
1:04:25SPEAKERtrying to get this whole new browser out
1:04:27SPEAKERwhen they should have just iterated on what they had.
1:04:29SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, look, this was a time
1:04:33SPEAKERwhen the thing, the coding standards
1:04:35SPEAKERand the way we develop software was still being developed.
1:04:37SPEAKERThis was before, I feel like SVN came out
1:04:40SPEAKERaround this time, right?
1:04:41SPEAKERThis was when like code management became a technology.
1:04:44SPEAKER- Yeah, I could see that.
1:04:46SPEAKER- So yeah, it was, I don't know.
1:04:50SPEAKERIt feels like a big time.
1:04:51SPEAKER- Yeah, I've only got two others here real quick
1:04:55SPEAKERthat we'll get to.
1:04:55SPEAKERThey're both examples to me of things that were defined
1:04:59SPEAKERor like proposed way earlier than I realized
1:05:02SPEAKERuntil I looked this up, because I feel like they're things
1:05:04SPEAKERI think of as like something
1:05:05SPEAKERthat has come about very recently.
1:05:08SPEAKEROne of them is that the Matroska project was launched
1:05:11SPEAKERin December of 2002.
1:05:12SPEAKER- That's wild, 'cause I would have assumed
1:05:14SPEAKERthat would came much later.
1:05:15SPEAKERThis was before video was like a going thing on computers
1:05:19SPEAKERfor the most part.
1:05:20SPEAKER- Or, well, you know, it was around, but it was very early.
1:05:23SPEAKERLike, you know, you were mostly seeing like dot MPEG files
1:05:25SPEAKERand dot AVI.
1:05:26SPEAKER- Well, and like it was before desktop video editing
1:05:31SPEAKERon like normal computers was a real thing.
1:05:33SPEAKERYou had to have, like, I guess we didn't have MPEG-2
1:05:36SPEAKERaccelerator and code cards at this point, but it was,
1:05:40SPEAKERI mean, if you were working in a professional environment,
1:05:43SPEAKERyou had some sort of dedicated hardware probably.
1:05:45SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, I think I would have stopped.
1:05:47SPEAKER- And like the video toaster, the Avids
1:05:48SPEAKERand the video toasters and all that had dedicated encoders.
1:05:51SPEAKER- I want to say stuff like ex-vid was around.
1:05:53SPEAKERLike there were like MPEG-2 codecs starting to percolate,
1:05:57SPEAKERbut it was still pretty early.
1:05:59SPEAKERIt was pretty early.
1:05:59SPEAKER- I think DVDs was still hard at this point.
1:06:02SPEAKER- Yeah, sure.
1:06:03SPEAKERLike, I don't know if DCSS even existed at this point
1:06:06SPEAKERor not, but maybe not.
1:06:07SPEAKERAnyway, Matroska is the project that begat
1:06:10SPEAKERthe MKV file format for people who don't know,
1:06:13SPEAKERwhich I very much think of as a latter day file format
1:06:16SPEAKERfor video, but apparently that project started
1:06:21SPEAKERlike 25 years ago.
1:06:22SPEAKER- It's just a really, it's a permissive container.
1:06:24SPEAKERSo like MP4 has-
1:06:26SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, it's mostly open source and open license
1:06:31SPEAKERand supports a bunch of different codec
1:06:34SPEAKERand stream formats within it.
1:06:37SPEAKERIt forked from something.
1:06:38SPEAKERIt forked from the multimedia container format,
1:06:41SPEAKERwhich MCF apparently.
1:06:43SPEAKER- Never heard of MCF.
1:06:45SPEAKER- There were disagreements in the MCF group.
1:06:47SPEAKERAnd so one of the founders of that broke off
1:06:50SPEAKERand started Matroska instead.
1:06:52SPEAKER- Interesting.
1:06:53SPEAKER- I just put everything in MKV these days.
1:06:55SPEAKERLike when I record, when I record like the Ramblecast video
1:06:59SPEAKERfor next lander or any kind of production type situation
1:07:02SPEAKERthese days, I just default to, I guess most everybody does.
1:07:06SPEAKERMKV is great because it can survive a broken stream.
1:07:11SPEAKER- That's true.
1:07:12SPEAKER- Like if your computer crashes or power goes out
1:07:13SPEAKERor something while you're recording a video,
1:07:16SPEAKERyou can still play back the video
1:07:17SPEAKERand reconstruct it very easily.
1:07:19SPEAKERAnd like MP4, that is super a possibility.
1:07:22SPEAKER- When I switched from Premiere to Resolve,
1:07:24SPEAKERI was really surprised because Premiere famously
1:07:27SPEAKERdoesn't support MKV.
1:07:28SPEAKER- Oh, still?
1:07:29SPEAKER- Still.
1:07:30SPEAKER- What?
1:07:31SPEAKER- Nope.
1:07:32SPEAKER- Fuck that.
1:07:33SPEAKER- And when I opened DaVinci and just drug an MKV
1:07:37SPEAKERinto the media browser by accident, it just reads it.
1:07:40SPEAKERI was like, wow, this is really nice.
1:07:41SPEAKER- Yep, yep, nice to use open standards for things.
1:07:45SPEAKER- DCSS, just as a side note,
1:07:47SPEAKERwas originally released in 1999.
1:07:49SPEAKER- Oh wow, that's earlier than I thought.
1:07:51SPEAKER- But it didn't become a thing until a little bit later.
1:07:54SPEAKER- Can I mention real quick, I saw a post going around
1:07:58SPEAKERwhere somebody used Little Snitch on Mac OS.
1:08:00SPEAKERAre you familiar with that?
1:08:01SPEAKER- No, it's Little Snitch.
1:08:02SPEAKER- It's like a network profile
1:08:03SPEAKERwhere it'll basically show you like by process,
1:08:05SPEAKERall the processes on your computer
1:08:06SPEAKERthat are sending out network requests for things.
1:08:09SPEAKER- Oh boy.
1:08:10SPEAKER- Somebody ran Little Snitch on their Mac
1:08:12SPEAKERwhere they had all the Adobe Creative Suite stuff installed
1:08:15SPEAKERand no Adobe applications open.
1:08:18SPEAKERAnd the number of network requests coming out
1:08:21SPEAKERfrom Adobe-owned processes with no Adobe software running
1:08:26SPEAKERwas concerning, it was a lot.
1:08:29SPEAKERIt was like multiple per second, like it was constant.
1:08:32SPEAKERI was just like, I felt even more validated
1:08:34SPEAKERabout not using Adobe stuff when I saw that.
1:08:36SPEAKER- They have, when I uninstalled Creative Suite
1:08:40SPEAKERfor my Windows machine,
1:08:43SPEAKERsuddenly the base number of processes running
1:08:45SPEAKERwas like 30 less than it had been before.
1:08:48SPEAKER- Yep.
1:08:49SPEAKER- Ridiculous.
1:08:50SPEAKER- All right, there's a time for-
1:08:53SPEAKER- Hold on, I got one more.
1:08:53SPEAKER- Okay.
1:08:54SPEAKER- One more little one.
1:08:57SPEAKER2002, January 1st, is when they introduced the Euro
1:09:00SPEAKERand we had to get new keyboards.
1:09:03SPEAKERThat's it, that's the note.
1:09:05SPEAKER- I'm looking at my keyboard.
1:09:06SPEAKER- You don't have a Euro key, you're in America.
1:09:08SPEAKER- I still don't have a Euro key?
1:09:10SPEAKER- No, you have to hit Alt
1:09:11SPEAKERand then some numpad numbers, I don't know which one.
1:09:13SPEAKER- I guess that's some Unicode sequence.
1:09:15SPEAKER- Yeah, if you type Euro in most word processors,
1:09:17SPEAKERit offers the autocorrect to the symbol.
1:09:20SPEAKER- Really?
1:09:21SPEAKER- No.
1:09:22SPEAKER- My Google box, you're right.
1:09:25SPEAKERAll right, here we go, the last one I've got,
1:09:29SPEAKERthe one everybody's been waiting for.
1:09:30SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:09:31SPEAKER- That's right.
1:09:33SPEAKERIt's IEEE 802.3AE-2002.
1:09:37SPEAKER- Oh man, hold on.
1:09:39SPEAKERYeah, I don't know what that one is.
1:09:40SPEAKER- I didn't either until I was looking this up,
1:09:42SPEAKERbut that defined, that was the spec
1:09:44SPEAKERthat defined 10 gigabit ethernet over fiber.
1:09:47SPEAKER- Oh.
1:09:48SPEAKER- This is like, like Matroska.
1:09:49SPEAKERI put this in here because this was a, oh wow.
1:09:52SPEAKERThink about 10 gigabit ethernet in 2002.
1:09:54SPEAKERAnd I mean, of course that was like oriented toward,
1:09:57SPEAKERyou know, the enterprise world
1:09:59SPEAKERand the burgeoning data center market.
1:10:01SPEAKERLike that's what this was conceived for originally.
1:10:03SPEAKERSo of course consumers wouldn't have known
1:10:05SPEAKERabout 10 gigabit ethernet in 2002,
1:10:08SPEAKERbut it's still like, it just really illustrates the point
1:10:10SPEAKERthat these specs get defined so far in advance
1:10:13SPEAKERof the technology starting to appear
1:10:15SPEAKERin any kind of visible form to people like us.
1:10:18SPEAKER- Well, it's interesting 'cause this is the time,
1:10:21SPEAKERthis is the time period when like,
1:10:25SPEAKERaround this time is when you were like,
1:10:26SPEAKERoh, a T1's actually not that fast, right?
1:10:29SPEAKER- Yeah, like cable, home cable connections
1:10:31SPEAKERwere starting to surpass the T1 pretty substantially.
1:10:33SPEAKER- Wildly surpass, yeah.
1:10:35SPEAKER'Cause T1 was 1.5, 4 megabits in each direction.
1:10:39SPEAKER- I want to say there were probably cable connections
1:10:42SPEAKERthat were like a hundred megabits at this point maybe.
1:10:44SPEAKEROr is that aggressive?
1:10:45SPEAKERI'm not sure.
1:10:46SPEAKER- So I was still on DSL at that time.
1:10:48SPEAKERI feel like there were people that got cable connections
1:10:51SPEAKERthat were like 50 or a hundred megabits.
1:10:54SPEAKERI feel like you had to really pony up for those.
1:10:55SPEAKERSo I feel like that was in the premium category
1:10:57SPEAKERat that point.
1:10:58SPEAKER- Yeah, I think I had like 120 like in 2008 to 10
1:11:01SPEAKERor something like that, but yeah.
1:11:04SPEAKERAnyway, so again, this was just 10 gigabit ethernet
1:11:07SPEAKERover fiber, the 10 gigabit over twisted pair
1:11:10SPEAKERwas not defined until 2006.
1:11:13SPEAKERBut still that's 2006 and here we are in 2026
1:11:15SPEAKERand you were just now really starting
1:11:18SPEAKERto see 10 gigabit ethernet coming to consumer devices
1:11:20SPEAKERin any kind of real way.
1:11:22SPEAKER- It's funny, I've been thinking it might be time
1:11:26SPEAKERto run the uplink between my desktop PC in the garage
1:11:31SPEAKERand run either a fiber, a 10 gigi.
1:11:34SPEAKERAnd I don't know if it's worth crawling around
1:11:37SPEAKERin the crawl space to do it.
1:11:38SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, it depends on what your storage is
1:11:41SPEAKERon the other end, whether that makes sense or not.
1:11:43SPEAKER- It almost certainly doesn't.
1:11:45SPEAKER- This is, I feel like this is a good illustration.
1:11:46SPEAKERI'm like, I'm going on a little bit of a tangent here,
1:11:49SPEAKERbut this is a good illustration of the fact
1:11:50SPEAKERthat ethernet is primarily a data link protocol
1:11:53SPEAKERand not a physical standard,
1:11:55SPEAKERwhich is something I have to constantly wrap my head around,
1:11:57SPEAKERnot just with ethernet,
1:11:58SPEAKERbut other types of cabling standards.
1:12:00SPEAKERLike, you know what everybody means
1:12:02SPEAKERwhen they say ethernet cable, like it's that one,
1:12:05SPEAKERbut we have to go deeper.
1:12:07SPEAKERThere's another layer to this,
1:12:09SPEAKERwhich I thought I was all high and mighty for a few years
1:12:12SPEAKERwhen I was like, oh, that's actually an RJ45 connector,
1:12:15SPEAKERbut it's not.
1:12:17SPEAKER- Wait, what?
1:12:17SPEAKER- It's not.
1:12:19SPEAKER- Well, the RJ45 is just the connector type.
1:12:21SPEAKER- No.
1:12:22SPEAKER- Is it the port?
1:12:22SPEAKER- It is the wiring layout.
1:12:25SPEAKER- Really?
1:12:26SPEAKER- It's actually an 8P8C connector.
1:12:28SPEAKER- God.
1:12:29SPEAKER- Eight position, eight connection,
1:12:30SPEAKERor eight contact rather, I believe.
1:12:32SPEAKER- Oh no.
1:12:33SPEAKER- So like that specific plug with the eight wires on it
1:12:35SPEAKERis 8P8C 'cause they're overlooked.
1:12:37SPEAKERI looked it up, there's like 6P4C or something, you know.
1:12:41SPEAKER- So then it's RJ45A and RJ45B
1:12:44SPEAKERfor the two different wiring standards?
1:12:46SPEAKER- No, I think RJ45S is the one I saw
1:12:49SPEAKERthat the telephone company used to use.
1:12:50SPEAKERBasically the RJ, the registered jack standards
1:12:53SPEAKERare like Telco specifications.
1:12:55SPEAKER- Of course they are.
1:12:56SPEAKER- They're like the way the wires are laid out and employed.
1:13:00SPEAKERThe physical connector is 8P8C, it's a lot.
1:13:04SPEAKER- Have you ever made an ethernet wire that's not twisted?
1:13:07SPEAKERHave you ever taken one apart and untwisted it?
1:13:08SPEAKER- No, I've never done that, but I was gonna say,
1:13:10SPEAKERI mean, this is, again, to go the other direction with this,
1:13:12SPEAKERthis illustrates the point that ethernet
1:13:14SPEAKERcan go over all kinds of different media.
1:13:15SPEAKER- It's true.
1:13:16SPEAKER- Not just that twisted pair, copper cable,
1:13:19SPEAKERfiber, other things as well, but.
1:13:23SPEAKERAnd then like that reminds me,
1:13:24SPEAKERlike I have this problem all the time.
1:13:27SPEAKERLike what I have called like RS-232 serial.
1:13:32SPEAKER- That's just a port, right?
1:13:33SPEAKER- Frequently for a long time.
1:13:34SPEAKERThat is also a data standard protocol, if I'm not mistaken.
1:13:37SPEAKERLike DB9 is the actual connector that carries that,
1:13:42SPEAKERexcept wait, it's not DB9, it's actually DE9.
1:13:46SPEAKERLike if you Google those terms,
1:13:48SPEAKERyou'll see a ton of pages going like,
1:13:49SPEAKERactually the port is technically DE9,
1:13:52SPEAKERbut everybody knows what you mean when you say DB9.
1:13:54SPEAKERLike it's just weird to me how often,
1:13:57SPEAKERhow confusing, maybe it goes to how confusingly named
1:14:00SPEAKERall this stuff is, how often people mix up
1:14:02SPEAKERlike the data standard versus the physical ports.
1:14:06SPEAKER- I mean, look, would you rather be right
1:14:08SPEAKERor would you let everybody know what you're talking about?
1:14:09SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, obviously.
1:14:10SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:14:11SPEAKER- The real, this is getting into some real deep shit here.
1:14:15SPEAKER- Okay.
1:14:16SPEAKER- The real reason I know all this stuff
1:14:17SPEAKERis because I recently went and came up
1:14:19SPEAKERwith a standardized naming scheme
1:14:21SPEAKERfor all of my network interfaces.
1:14:22SPEAKER- Oh no, Brad.
1:14:24SPEAKER- It's because I have multiple Linux machines around here
1:14:26SPEAKERwith multiple types of network interfaces in them
1:14:28SPEAKERthat are not just what you think of as ethernet ports.
1:14:31SPEAKERYou know, I've got two computers here
1:14:32SPEAKERwith both ethernet ports and Mellanox cards in them,
1:14:36SPEAKERwhich use SFP ports, but they all just show up
1:14:38SPEAKERas network interfaces in Linux.
1:14:40SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:14:41SPEAKER- So you need some weight.
1:14:42SPEAKER- It just shows like eth1 and eth0?
1:14:43SPEAKER- Yeah, so that's exactly what led me to this
1:14:45SPEAKERis that you can manually, and you're in Linux,
1:14:47SPEAKERyou actually touch the stuff now.
1:14:50SPEAKERYou can manually name your network interfaces in Linux.
1:14:53SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:14:54SPEAKER- And to, the way Linux names them all now
1:14:58SPEAKERis they're all like ENPS60, whatever.
1:15:00SPEAKERYou know what I'm talking about?
1:15:01SPEAKER- Yeah. - You've seen that.
1:15:02SPEAKERThey're all just like hashed from Mac address
1:15:06SPEAKERor PCI address or, you know,
1:15:08SPEAKERlike they just come up with names.
1:15:09SPEAKERI was like, fuck this.
1:15:10SPEAKERI need to know what all these are in a declarative
1:15:13SPEAKERor like predictable way.
1:15:15SPEAKER- You and I are very different people.
1:15:18SPEAKER- My ethernet ports are now RJ, RJ0, RJ1.
1:15:24SPEAKER- Okay.
1:15:25SPEAKER- For registered jack.
1:15:26SPEAKER- But what about the SFPs?
1:15:28SPEAKER- Those are MLX for Mellanox.
1:15:31SPEAKER- But Mellanox is a brand, not a standard.
1:15:33SPEAKERYour system's already breaking down brand.
1:15:36SPEAKER- Well, then I will re-engineer the system
1:15:39SPEAKERif I ever get other things.
1:15:40SPEAKERIn fact, if I ever build my own router,
1:15:43SPEAKERit probably will have SFP ports
1:15:44SPEAKERthat are not Mellanox in them.
1:15:45SPEAKERSo you're probably right.
1:15:46SPEAKER- Yeah, you gotta SFP those.
1:15:48SPEAKER- The driver in Linux is called an MLX.
1:15:50SPEAKERSo it was just easy to identify by calling it that.
1:15:52SPEAKERAnyway, that is a very long-winded and knowingly.
1:15:58SPEAKERLook, dense and nerdy way of saying
1:16:01SPEAKERI've been thinking about registered jacks a lot lately.
1:16:03SPEAKER- It's wild, it's wild to me.
1:16:08SPEAKERLike I think about late '90s, early 2000s internet
1:16:11SPEAKERand how excited I was to get like five megabits symmetrical,
1:16:14SPEAKERright, so I could host a game server at home.
1:16:17SPEAKERAnd I was running, I wanna say the,
1:16:20SPEAKERwhat was the Chris Roberts game, Freelancer?
1:16:22SPEAKER- Freelancer, did he do Freelancer?
1:16:24SPEAKER- No, no, the Microsoft published one.
1:16:26SPEAKERIt was basically a space trading game
1:16:31SPEAKERaround this time. - Oh, whoa, whoa, Chris,
1:16:32SPEAKERare you thinking Privateer?
1:16:34SPEAKER- No, after that, that was in the '90s.
1:16:36SPEAKERThis was a 3D one.
1:16:38SPEAKER- Maybe it was Freelancer then?
1:16:39SPEAKER- I think it was Freelancer.
1:16:40SPEAKER- Yeah, yes, that is '99.
1:16:41SPEAKERYeah, that was him.
1:16:42SPEAKERI never played that.
1:16:43SPEAKER- That game was amazing.
1:16:44SPEAKERLike you basically had a big world.
1:16:46SPEAKERYou could have a always running,
1:16:48SPEAKERlike they released a server that you could run
1:16:49SPEAKERthat was just a persistent server
1:16:51SPEAKERand it would run on like a Pentium 2,
1:16:53SPEAKERPentium 1, Pentium 3, 600 or something.
1:16:57SPEAKERAnd I had like 20 people that played that game
1:16:59SPEAKERall the time on the server and all off.
1:17:02SPEAKERAnd it was back when electricity,
1:17:05SPEAKERour power bill was $55 a month for the record.
1:17:09SPEAKERBut it was, like it was, that was incredible.
1:17:13SPEAKERAnd I could do that on a DSL connection.
1:17:16SPEAKERAnd I think now about the fact
1:17:17SPEAKERthat I have this gigabit pipe into the house
1:17:19SPEAKERand like we know people with 10 gigabit connections
1:17:22SPEAKERinto their homes and it's just wild
1:17:25SPEAKER'cause that would have cost you tens of thousands
1:17:27SPEAKERof dollars a month, you know, 15, 20 years ago.
1:17:30SPEAKER- Yeah, now I feel like kind of a doofus
1:17:31SPEAKER'cause I had broadband back then
1:17:33SPEAKERand I could have been running game servers and I didn't.
1:17:35SPEAKER- Yeah, look, imagine how good you would have been
1:17:37SPEAKERat Quake if you had a zero ping.
1:17:38SPEAKER- Man.
1:17:39SPEAKER- Yeah, think about it.
1:17:40SPEAKER- Okay, last thing and then we gotta wrap this podcast up.
1:17:42SPEAKERDo you wanna know who did the music for Freelancer?
1:17:44SPEAKER- Who?
1:17:45SPEAKER- Andrew Sega.
1:17:48SPEAKER- Wait, what?
1:17:49SPEAKER- This man's name is Andrew Sega.
1:17:51SPEAKER- That's amazing.
1:17:52SPEAKER- It is amazing.
1:17:53SPEAKERThat's all I have to say.
1:17:54SPEAKER- Is he related to the video game Segas?
1:17:56SPEAKER- I don't think so.
1:17:57SPEAKER- Okay.
1:17:58SPEAKER- I think that is an incredible man.
1:17:59SPEAKERIn fact, he has stage names
1:18:00SPEAKERsuch as Nekros and Alpha Conspiracy.
1:18:02SPEAKER- And if my name was Andrew Sega,
1:18:04SPEAKERI would never have a stage name.
1:18:06SPEAKERI would just be a Sega, a GS, yeah, anyway.
1:18:09SPEAKER- Seems like he's probably mostly an electronic artist
1:18:12SPEAKERbut he did some of the music for Freelancer.
1:18:14SPEAKERAnyway, thanks for listening to this podcast.
1:18:17SPEAKER- Yeah, let's, this is the end of the show.
1:18:21SPEAKER- Okay, so we always miss stuff on these.
1:18:23SPEAKERI would love to know if you wanna send stuff in,
1:18:25SPEAKERsend it to techbot@content.town
1:18:26SPEAKERand we'll talk about the stuff we missed
1:18:27SPEAKERat the end of the month.
1:18:30SPEAKERThis was a fun, this was a kind of transitive time,
1:18:34SPEAKERa transitory time for technology, right?
1:18:36SPEAKERWe were in between a bunch of things
1:18:38SPEAKERbut the beginning of the modern age,
1:18:41SPEAKERlike the launch of affordable Wi-Fi
1:18:44SPEAKERand like multi-threaded CPUs and Firefox,
1:18:48SPEAKERa piece of software I'm running literally right now
1:18:50SPEAKERon my computer in front of me.
1:18:52SPEAKER- Yeah, and like all the digital filmmaking stuff,
1:18:53SPEAKERthat's kind of what I,
1:18:54SPEAKERthat was kind of the point I tried to attempt to make
1:18:56SPEAKERat the top of this.
1:18:57SPEAKERLike this is not a big year for like huge firsts necessarily
1:19:01SPEAKERbut it is a year where you see all these 21st century trends
1:19:04SPEAKERreally starting to take hold and like become common.
1:19:07SPEAKER- Like the nascent online video game services for consoles
1:19:10SPEAKERand yeah, texting on your phone,
1:19:13SPEAKERinstant messaging on your danger hip top,
1:19:16SPEAKERsuch a better name than the T-Mobile Sidekick.
1:19:19SPEAKERBut anyway, we do this every week,
1:19:22SPEAKERwe're listener supported so without you guys,
1:19:24SPEAKERthe listeners, we wouldn't be here.
1:19:26SPEAKERIf you want to find out how you can support the show,
1:19:28SPEAKERyou can go to patreon.com/techpod.
1:19:31SPEAKERAgain, that's patreon.com/techpod.
1:19:33SPEAKERWe're for $5, which I got a plain bagel with cream cheese
1:19:38SPEAKERon it the other day, cost $5.
1:19:40SPEAKER- Okay, my own. - It's a pretty good deal.
1:19:41SPEAKER- That's actually cheaper
1:19:42SPEAKERthan I would have expected around here.
1:19:43SPEAKER- It was in Pacifica so, you know,
1:19:45SPEAKERwe did a little, we got the suburb discount.
1:19:47SPEAKER- It says plain bagel to be clear,
1:19:49SPEAKERthat's everything.
1:19:50SPEAKER- Look, I can't afford everything, man.
1:19:52SPEAKERWhat are you talking about?
1:19:53SPEAKER- Everything would have been eight or nine probably.
1:19:55SPEAKER- Yeah, all those sesame seeds and poppy seeds,
1:19:59SPEAKERyou know, poppy seeds don't grow on trees.
1:20:02SPEAKERI mean, guess they grow on flower.
1:20:04SPEAKERAnyway, we're listener supported,
1:20:06SPEAKERwe wouldn't be here without you all.
1:20:08SPEAKERIt's techpod, patreon.com/techpod.
1:20:11SPEAKERAnd yeah, you get access to the Discord,
1:20:13SPEAKERwhich is full of smart, beautiful people
1:20:16SPEAKERwho talk about nerdy stuff like this
1:20:17SPEAKERand I'm sure there's going to be an extended conversation
1:20:20SPEAKERabout, I guarantee you,
1:20:21SPEAKERthere was something midway through this episode
1:20:23SPEAKERthat I was like, oh crap, we forgot to put this on the list.
1:20:26SPEAKERAnd then we started talking about something else
1:20:27SPEAKERand I forgot to put it on the list.
1:20:28SPEAKERAnd I was like, we're gonna get roasted for forgetting this.
1:20:31SPEAKERSo anyway, let them fly in the Discord.
1:20:35SPEAKERAnd we get the monthly Patreon exclusive episode
1:20:37SPEAKERwhere we either do extra questions
1:20:39SPEAKERor we talk about projects we have going
1:20:41SPEAKERor things that we're cooking for future episodes,
1:20:43SPEAKERor maybe you're too small for a full episode.
1:20:47SPEAKER- I don't know what we're gonna talk about this month.
1:20:48SPEAKERI don't have anything.
1:20:49SPEAKERI have some projects that we could talk about.
1:20:51SPEAKER- Maybe I'll further define some network interfaces.
1:20:54SPEAKERWe can talk more about that.
1:20:55SPEAKER- Yeah, you can make some new names.
1:20:57SPEAKER- You know what really brought that about,
1:20:58SPEAKERsorry, we need to get out of here,
1:20:59SPEAKERbut I created a dummy network interface on Raspberry Pi.
1:21:04SPEAKERI was looking into Anycast DNS is what it was.
1:21:09SPEAKERAnd you need a virtual network interface on any machine
1:21:13SPEAKERthat's gonna be doing Anycast.
1:21:14SPEAKER- That's interesting.
1:21:15SPEAKER- Anycast is basically, I don't know if you know
1:21:16SPEAKERwhat that is.
1:21:17SPEAKERI barely understand it.
1:21:18SPEAKERI kind of abandoned or tabled the project,
1:21:19SPEAKERbut if you have multiple pie holes,
1:21:21SPEAKERmultiple DNSs around the house,
1:21:23SPEAKERit's a way to only have to have one address for your DNS.
1:21:27SPEAKER- Oh, and then it just doles them out to whatever machine.
1:21:30SPEAKER- The router just handles directing all the DNS
1:21:33SPEAKERto whichever one it thinks is fastest at the time.
1:21:36SPEAKER- Interesting.
1:21:37SPEAKER- That necessitates having even more network interfaces
1:21:40SPEAKERdefined on your thing.
1:21:41SPEAKERAnd just the more of there are,
1:21:42SPEAKERthe more you need to know what they are.
1:21:44SPEAKER- Nope, too much complexity.
1:21:46SPEAKER- Like I said, I spent a few, a couple hours
1:21:48SPEAKERtinkering with it and I was like,
1:21:49SPEAKERah, maybe I'll come back to this some other time.
1:21:51SPEAKER- But yeah, that'll do it for us this week.
1:21:53SPEAKERThanks to everybody for supporting the show.
1:21:55SPEAKERExtra special thank you goes out to our executive producer,
1:21:57SPEAKERtier patrons, including OpenAI Delenda Est,
1:22:01SPEAKERAndrew Slosky, Jordan Lippett, Octothorpe Bunny for Work,
1:22:05SPEAKERDavid Allen, James Kamik, and Pantheon,
1:22:08SPEAKERmakers of the HS3 high-speed 3D printer.
1:22:10SPEAKERThank you also so much.
1:22:11SPEAKER- Yeah, thank you.
1:22:12SPEAKERHappy birthday to you.
1:22:13SPEAKER- Thank you, sir.
1:22:15SPEAKER- You have a lovely weekend and as always,
1:22:17SPEAKERplease consider the environment before printing this podcast.