00:00SPEAKER- Brad, I had a really weird dream last night.
00:01SPEAKER- Hit me.
00:03SPEAKER- You're familiar with the humble hedgehog.
00:06SPEAKER- The humble hedgehog?
00:07SPEAKERI mean, I'm familiar with hedgehogs generally.
00:09SPEAKER- I think they're humble.
00:10SPEAKERI feel like a hedgehog is a humble animal.
00:11SPEAKER- I was just making sure that wasn't a capital H,
00:13SPEAKERlike there's a cartoon character
00:15SPEAKERcalled the humble hedgehog or something.
00:17SPEAKER- Hold on, we gotta stop talking about this.
00:18SPEAKERI just emailed it to myself.
00:19SPEAKERI'm safe in that one.
00:20SPEAKERThat one's really good.
00:21SPEAKERBut no, I had a dream last night
00:24SPEAKERthat I saw a hedgehog in my backyard.
00:26SPEAKERAnd as far as I know, we don't have hedgehogs.
00:29SPEAKERHedgehogs are like a Europe thing.
00:31SPEAKER- They're not endemic to California.
00:32SPEAKERWait, they're not even endemic
00:33SPEAKERto the continental United States?
00:35SPEAKER- I don't believe so.
00:36SPEAKEREverybody, look, you know how I feel
00:40SPEAKERabout animal influencers and the fact
00:42SPEAKERthat I do tend to follow, you know,
00:44SPEAKERlike I have a Chinchilla person,
00:46SPEAKERI got some Guinea pig people,
00:48SPEAKERgot a bunch of quirkies and dogs and cats,
00:50SPEAKERand I have a hedgehog person.
00:53SPEAKERAnd she does, she builds little hutches,
00:57SPEAKERlike little houses that are hedgehog-sized in her backyard
01:00SPEAKERand then puts things that hedgehogs like to eat inside them
01:03SPEAKERand little cameras, and they come in
01:04SPEAKERand they do hedgehog-y things inside their little house.
01:07SPEAKERBut only during certain times of the year,
01:08SPEAKERapparently, for some reason,
01:09SPEAKERbut I'm pretty sure she's in the UK.
01:11SPEAKER- Yes, I mean, I'm looking at it right now.
01:13SPEAKERThere are no hedgehogs native to Australia
01:15SPEAKERand no living species native to the Americas.
01:18SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, I think the closest we get is a porcupine,
01:20SPEAKERwhich also I've never seen in the wild.
01:22SPEAKER- Oh, wait, is there a distinction?
01:24SPEAKER- Yeah, porcupines have spines and hedgehogs are just cute.
01:26SPEAKER- I thought hedgehogs also had spines.
01:27SPEAKER- Well, they have spines,
01:28SPEAKERbut they're not like barbed and pokey like porcupine.
01:31SPEAKER- They're like a little prickly when you pick them up,
01:33SPEAKERnot ouch, get this thing away from me.
01:36SPEAKER- I don't get the sense that they're prickly even.
01:38SPEAKERI think they're just like,
01:42SPEAKERwhat's the least prickly prickly thing you can imagine?
01:45SPEAKERIt's like one of those succulents that doesn't have spines?
01:48SPEAKER- Sure, yeah.
01:49SPEAKER- Yeah, I imagine that they're like
01:50SPEAKERthe rodent equivalent of a succulent.
01:53SPEAKER- I'm looking at side-by-sides.
01:54SPEAKERThere's definitely a distinction in spine severity.
01:58SPEAKER- Yeah, like porcupine,
02:00SPEAKERwe had an Irish setter one time that got into a porcupine
02:04SPEAKERand it was bad news for her.
02:05SPEAKERLike she had barbs all in her face and it was awful.
02:08SPEAKER- That does not look nice.
02:10SPEAKERSpeaking of animal influencers.
02:12SPEAKER- Yeah.
02:13SPEAKER- Where do you land on Punch-kun?
02:15SPEAKER- What?
02:16SPEAKER- Punch the monkey?
02:17SPEAKER- I don't know this.
02:18SPEAKER- Wait, what?
02:19SPEAKEROkay, maybe you're better off then.
02:21SPEAKER- Is the Punch the monkey's name or do you Punch?
02:23SPEAKER- Yes, Punch.
02:24SPEAKER- Punch is the name of a baby monkey at a zoo in Japan.
02:27SPEAKER- Oh.
02:28SPEAKER- It's kind of sad.
02:29SPEAKERI don't know if we should get into it,
02:31SPEAKERbut I haven't fully consumed all of the lore
02:34SPEAKERof just kind of encountered it in passing,
02:36SPEAKERbut the monkey was separated from its mother
02:38SPEAKERor its mother died or it was raised as a baby by humans.
02:42SPEAKERI'm not clear,
02:43SPEAKERbut there was definitely a lack of socialization
02:46SPEAKERand parenting in a natural sense.
02:49SPEAKERAnd then this baby monkey was later introduced
02:51SPEAKERinto a group of other monkeys that did not know it.
02:55SPEAKER- Were they rude to it?
02:56SPEAKER- They have been rejecting it largely for the most part.
02:59SPEAKERAnd it's a small baby animal.
03:01SPEAKERSo of course it's very cute and sympathetic.
03:03SPEAKERAnd also they gave it a stuffed monkey
03:05SPEAKERas a surrogate mother.
03:07SPEAKER- Wow, that's messed up.
03:09SPEAKER- For large swaths of the last couple of weeks,
03:11SPEAKERthere have been videos of this baby monkey being like,
03:13SPEAKERI'm going to say more bullied than brutalized,
03:15SPEAKERlike not violent,
03:17SPEAKERbut the other monkeys have definitely been
03:19SPEAKERpretty physically unkind toward him.
03:21SPEAKERAnd then he immediately goes and runs
03:23SPEAKERand clutches the stuffed monkey
03:25SPEAKERthat he is using as a mother
03:28SPEAKERin a way that is like a Disney movie level tragic to watch.
03:33SPEAKER- Okay, so two things.
03:34SPEAKEROne is that when I went to Google
03:38SPEAKERand I typed punch the monkey,
03:40SPEAKERI got results and like hearts fall from the sky
03:43SPEAKERwith punch the monkey's face on them.
03:45SPEAKER- That is a route straight to bonsai buddy.
03:47SPEAKER- Yeah, the second thing is, no, no, no,
03:49SPEAKERlike Google, the search page had things dropping from it.
03:53SPEAKER- Oh, like literally.
03:54SPEAKER- Like they made an event of it.
03:56SPEAKERThey're celebrating this monkey violence,
03:58SPEAKERmonkey on monkey violence.
03:59SPEAKERBut the second thing is that I feel like
04:01SPEAKERpunch the monkey's really kind of a metaphor for 2026
04:03SPEAKERand the state of the world right now.
04:05SPEAKER'Cause I feel like we've all been rejected by our moms
04:08SPEAKERand like the best thing that we can get
04:11SPEAKERis a shitty stuffed animal.
04:12SPEAKER- Yes, we're all clinging to some kind of surrogate
04:15SPEAKERfor any amount of solace we can find.
04:17SPEAKER- Yeah, that we're desperately clinging to,
04:18SPEAKERtrying to find a moment of peace in an otherwise grim world.
04:21SPEAKERAnyway, welcome to the podcast.
04:23SPEAKER(upbeat music)
04:48SPEAKER(upbeat music)
04:51SPEAKERWelcome to Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod, I'm Will.
04:54SPEAKER- I'm Brad, I strategically made a poor decision
04:58SPEAKERto drink in the middle of water, to be clear.
05:01SPEAKERI feel like when you use drink as an intransitive verb,
05:04SPEAKERpeople might assume you are drinking,
05:07SPEAKERwhich I am not doing at eight in the morning here.
05:09SPEAKERI was drinking water, but right in the middle of the intro.
05:11SPEAKER- It could be gin, it could be vodka, I'm not judging.
05:14SPEAKERWe're just here to make a podcast.
05:15SPEAKERThere's a long history of people talking into microphones
05:17SPEAKERwith the barely controlled substance abuse problems.
05:20SPEAKER- Boy, that's for sure.
05:22SPEAKER- But yeah, welcome to, welcome, hello.
05:25SPEAKER- Hi.
05:25SPEAKER- I'm freaked out by this monkey story.
05:27SPEAKERHow did I, I've not seen anything about Punch the Monkey.
05:30SPEAKER- He's a macaque?
05:31SPEAKER- Yeah, wow.
05:32SPEAKER- A snow monkey?
05:33SPEAKER- You gotta say that real careful.
05:35SPEAKER- M-A-C-A-Q-U-E.
05:37SPEAKER- Yeah.
05:37SPEAKER- Macaque, I think that's pronounced macaque.
05:39SPEAKER- Yeah.
05:41SPEAKER- It's. - Wow.
05:41SPEAKER- I believe he is like slowly being accepted.
05:46SPEAKER- Maybe he's just an asshole.
05:47SPEAKER- Yeah, that's definitely come up.
05:49SPEAKERThat's yes, the maybe the child has bad vibes argument
05:52SPEAKERhas surfaced a couple of times for sure.
05:54SPEAKER- He could be like the Hitler of monkeys
05:56SPEAKERand the other monkeys sussed it out and were like,
05:58SPEAKER"Hey man, I want nothing to do with you."
06:00SPEAKER- I can tell this whole story is getting to me
06:02SPEAKERby the gut revulsion I feel when I hear you say that.
06:07SPEAKER- Well, look, I don't have any personal connection
06:09SPEAKERwith Punch.
06:10SPEAKER- Don't you talk about Punch that way.
06:11SPEAKER- Why did they call him Punch if all he's doing
06:13SPEAKERis getting beaten up by the other monkeys.
06:16SPEAKER- Questionable perhaps.
06:18SPEAKER- Yeah, that's like.
06:19SPEAKER- It's pretty rough to watch.
06:21SPEAKERLike when the human caregivers come in to feed and stuff,
06:25SPEAKERhe just runs and grabs onto one of their thighs
06:27SPEAKERand refuses to let go.
06:29SPEAKER- Desperate for any kind.
06:30SPEAKERLook, if you need something that's a little cuddlier
06:34SPEAKERand a little more warming and endearing,
06:36SPEAKERthe Marine Mammal Rescue on Twitch does otter,
06:41SPEAKERsee otter live cam 24/7.
06:43SPEAKERAnd like, look, if you're pro mollusk,
06:46SPEAKERyou're gonna have a hard time with it,
06:47SPEAKERbut otherwise pretty good.
06:49SPEAKER- Okay, all right.
06:51SPEAKER- But we're not here to talk about mollusks or otters
06:53SPEAKERor macaque or.
06:55SPEAKER- If people wanna write in about those things,
06:57SPEAKERI guess we are, but.
06:58SPEAKER- I mean, yeah, or other, I think, wait,
07:01SPEAKERare hedgehogs echidnas?
07:03SPEAKERI think that's what they are, right?
07:04SPEAKER- I believe if I can find the tab I just had open, yes.
07:08SPEAKER- Yes, yes, actually, maybe not.
07:11SPEAKER- Sometimes laying eggs, that's weird.
07:13SPEAKER- I don't think I want to try to even read
07:16SPEAKERmost of this taxonomy.
07:18SPEAKER- What, you don't wanna talk about the spiny anteaters,
07:20SPEAKERquill-covered monotremes, egg-laying mammals,
07:22SPEAKERbelonging to the family techegulacidae?
07:24SPEAKER- It is of the order, eulipotiphia or something.
07:32SPEAKEROkay, it's too much quasi-Latin for this hour.
07:37SPEAKEREchidnas aren't actually hedgehogs, so yeah, there we go.
07:41SPEAKER- I think that's the whole Sonic and Knuckles dichotomy,
07:45SPEAKERright?
07:45SPEAKER- Wait, Sonic and Knuckles aren't both hedgehogs?
07:47SPEAKER- No, Knuckles is an echidna, famously.
07:50SPEAKERAnd not only now that you're saying this,
07:52SPEAKERdo I realize they must have introduced him as an echidna
07:54SPEAKERas a foil to the hedgehog protagonist.
07:58SPEAKER- I mean, I often have said that the egg-laying mammals,
08:00SPEAKERthe monotremes are the evil versions
08:03SPEAKERof the other non-egg-laying mammals.
08:06SPEAKER- Yup, yup, yup.
08:08SPEAKERAll right, should we answer some questions?
08:10SPEAKER- Yeah, if you have a question, you can send it via email,
08:13SPEAKERthat's electronicmail2techpod@content.town,
08:16SPEAKERor if you are a member of the Patreon,
08:18SPEAKERwhich you can find out about
08:19SPEAKERby going to patreon.com/techpod,
08:22SPEAKERthen you can go into the Question Seeking Answers channel
08:24SPEAKERand post it there, and it will kind of disappear.
08:26SPEAKERNow, I'm gonna go and tell you,
08:28SPEAKERthere was some proprietary knowledge
08:30SPEAKERdropped in the questions channel this month,
08:33SPEAKERso you should know those questions do disappear
08:36SPEAKERafter a moment, but if somebody else happens
08:37SPEAKERto be in that channel at the same time,
08:39SPEAKERthen we'll see exactly what you write,
08:41SPEAKERand there's nothing we can do about that,
08:42SPEAKERso don't post secret stuff in there.
08:43SPEAKERSend secret stuff via email.
08:45SPEAKER- Did you redact?
08:46SPEAKERThere's at least one message in here
08:47SPEAKERwith some large redacteds in it, and did you do that?
08:50SPEAKER- Someone put a place that they worked
08:53SPEAKERthat I know that they would get in trouble for posting,
08:56SPEAKERand I did some redacting.
08:57SPEAKERIt's a big, giant company.
08:58SPEAKERI think we can do that one first if you want.
09:00SPEAKER- That one is exactly the one I was talking about.
09:03SPEAKER- Yeah. - So, all right,
09:04SPEAKERwell, now that we've talked about it, I guess,
09:06SPEAKERlet's go ahead and read it.
09:06SPEAKERIt's this Notepad++ one?
09:08SPEAKER- Yeah. - Okay, yes.
09:09SPEAKER- We got a lot of feedback on Notepad++.
09:13SPEAKERSome people were of the, yo, man,
09:15SPEAKERthis is just one developer doing his thing for free,
09:18SPEAKERleave him alone, be nice to him,
09:19SPEAKER'cause they thought we were mean about the way we said
09:21SPEAKERthat he kind of muffed the security alert.
09:23SPEAKER- I thought our discussion was pretty descriptive in nature
09:27SPEAKERand not necessarily judgmental.
09:29SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, look, if there's one thing
09:30SPEAKERthat doing the FOSPOD taught me,
09:32SPEAKERit's that we should all be nice
09:33SPEAKERto our open source maintainers
09:34SPEAKERand you shouldn't yell at them ever.
09:36SPEAKER- Yeah, and also like it was, well, I'm not an expert here,
09:39SPEAKERbut from my perspective,
09:40SPEAKERit was largely the fault of the hosting provider,
09:42SPEAKERbut also it seems like the, again, as we said last week,
09:45SPEAKERthe updater was maybe lacking some fundamental checks
09:48SPEAKERagainst integrity of updates, but anyway.
09:51SPEAKER- Yeah, anyway, to be continued.
09:54SPEAKER- Yes, Ian is the author of this email.
09:57SPEAKERFrom a security researcher perspective,
10:00SPEAKERat Redacted, the Notepad++ event caused a lot of noise
10:04SPEAKERfor us and you were spot on with it being targeted
10:06SPEAKERat corporate software developer folks.
10:09SPEAKERNotepad++ is widely used by software devs
10:11SPEAKERand it also happens to be a common approved editor
10:14SPEAKERfor production environment machines
10:16SPEAKERthat can edit, run and deploy code in production.
10:19SPEAKERWhile I wasn't directly involved
10:20SPEAKERin the investigation at Redacted,
10:22SPEAKERa colleague of mine works in containment focused efforts
10:25SPEAKERand a lot of folks found themselves
10:27SPEAKERwith non-functional work laptops and production laptops
10:30SPEAKERafter that event happened because we went with the better
10:33SPEAKERto be safe than sorry containment approach
10:35SPEAKERand just nuked a bunch of laptops.
10:37SPEAKERA lot of people were worried it was layoffs,
10:39SPEAKERbut no, just security.
10:41SPEAKERFor alternatives to Notepad++,
10:43SPEAKERyou hit on the gold standard of sublime text.
10:46SPEAKERYou mentioned VS code,
10:47SPEAKERwhich is pretty heavy for just text editing,
10:49SPEAKERbut a neat thing there is that you can actually run
10:51SPEAKERthe text editor piece of VS code separately.
10:54SPEAKERIt's called Monaco editor.
10:56SPEAKERIt's an NPM package and you use a browser
10:59SPEAKERas a text and code editor essentially with it.
11:02SPEAKER- So, okay, two things.
11:04SPEAKEROne is I wanna know,
11:05SPEAKERobviously they made the laptops stop working remotely
11:07SPEAKER'cause that's the thing you can do
11:08SPEAKERin corporate environments.
11:09SPEAKER- Yeah, and in fact, I would guess wiped them.
11:12SPEAKERI don't know if you can go that far
11:14SPEAKERor maybe you're just like kind of like barring them
11:16SPEAKERfrom the network until they're wiped or something.
11:18SPEAKERI don't know.
11:19SPEAKER- Well, I think they can do things
11:20SPEAKERlike revoke BitLocker keys and stuff like that
11:22SPEAKERso that data is essentially gone.
11:23SPEAKER- That would effectively be an easy way to wipe it.
11:25SPEAKERI love that, not to go off on a tangent here,
11:28SPEAKERbut I think I've talked about before,
11:29SPEAKERthat's how NVME drives can be zeroed out.
11:33SPEAKERAnd I think it's part of the spec these days
11:34SPEAKERis that they have on hardware encryption at all times
11:38SPEAKERand to quote unquote erase an NVME drive,
11:40SPEAKERyou just have it wipe the decryption key
11:43SPEAKERand then the data is effectively gone forever.
11:46SPEAKER- The other thing I think is that like part of the concern
11:51SPEAKERwith the machine that's been compromised at that level
11:53SPEAKERis that then it's compromised
11:54SPEAKERin some sort of firmware way, right?
11:56SPEAKEROr that there's something living in the firmware
11:57SPEAKERthat drives or whatever.
11:58SPEAKERSo all the hardware is suspect.
12:00SPEAKERAnd I wonder if they just like,
12:02SPEAKERif these get chucked in the e-waste pile
12:03SPEAKERor if they end up in the shredder
12:05SPEAKERor like what the disposal process is
12:08SPEAKERfor potentially compromised laptops
12:10SPEAKERat a big giant fortune 100 company.
12:13SPEAKER- Yeah, I wanna see a laptop.
12:15SPEAKERI mean, it's kind of, it would be kind of sad
12:17SPEAKERto watch perfectly good piece of hardware be destroyed,
12:19SPEAKERbut also-
12:20SPEAKER- But is it perfectly good, Brad?
12:22SPEAKER- Yeah, that's true.
12:23SPEAKER- That's the question.
12:24SPEAKERYou can't be sure, man.
12:24SPEAKER- I guess you'll never actually know.
12:27SPEAKER- I also installed Sublime Text
12:28SPEAKERon all my computers this week.
12:30SPEAKERAnd holy crap, it's really good.
12:32SPEAKER- Is it?
12:33SPEAKERI tried it like years ago
12:35SPEAKERand I don't think I still have it installed,
12:38SPEAKERbut I thought it was pretty good, yeah.
12:39SPEAKER- It might be, it's weird because Linux people
12:45SPEAKERtend to use VI or Nano or one of the-
12:49SPEAKER- Max.
12:50SPEAKER- Yeah, the CLI-based text editors.
12:54SPEAKERThere's kind of not a ton of really good plaintext.
12:58SPEAKERThere's a lot of stuff for like editing Markdown
12:59SPEAKERand doing like light word processing,
13:02SPEAKERbut there's not, like there's a weird void there
13:04SPEAKERand Sublime fills that really nicely for me.
13:06SPEAKERSo I've been using that for the last week or so.
13:08SPEAKER- Last thing I'll say real quick,
13:09SPEAKERI don't remember who said this,
13:11SPEAKERbut somebody in the thread for last week's episode
13:13SPEAKERon the Discord said, effectively, I'm paraphrasing,
13:16SPEAKERI have bad news for you about how widespread
13:18SPEAKERNotepad++ is in government institutions.
13:21SPEAKER- Yeah, extremely.
13:22SPEAKERIt seems like it's around quite a bit.
13:24SPEAKER- I thought, I mean, I thought it was interesting
13:26SPEAKERthat they seem to be targeting people building software
13:29SPEAKERat commercial places, right?
13:31SPEAKERLike that, like you imagine somebody who's shipping software
13:35SPEAKERto millions and millions of people,
13:36SPEAKERif you compromise one machine
13:38SPEAKERthat's in the production pipeline for that
13:39SPEAKERin a way that you can put zero days
13:41SPEAKERthat nobody knows to look for into those pipelines,
13:45SPEAKERthen all of a sudden you turn one hack
13:48SPEAKERinto an installed hit of hundreds of millions
13:50SPEAKERor billions of people potentially, so yeah.
13:54SPEAKER- All right, here's a pair of questions
13:57SPEAKERthat I find amusing.
13:59SPEAKERAdam writes in first, when I was a child,
14:01SPEAKERmy mother painted murals in people's homes.
14:04SPEAKERThese were wealthy and extravagant homes
14:06SPEAKERthat could afford a bespoke mural of ponies
14:09SPEAKERin their child's bedroom.
14:10SPEAKERSo they usually had crazy tech products.
14:13SPEAKERI remember one of these homes having quite possibly
14:15SPEAKERthe largest TV I had and maybe have ever seen.
14:19SPEAKERIt looked like a CRT built into a massive cabinet.
14:22SPEAKERKid brain is not the best at remembering dimensions,
14:24SPEAKERbut I remember it easily being six feet tall
14:26SPEAKERand nearly eight feet wide.
14:28SPEAKERThis would have been around 2003, give or take a year or two.
14:31SPEAKERDid I actually see a massive tube TV
14:33SPEAKERor was it some sort of early plasma TV?
14:36SPEAKERMy wife has a similar story from a similar era
14:38SPEAKERso I definitely didn't imagine it, maybe just exaggerated it.
14:42SPEAKERI double checked, there was that video going around
14:44SPEAKERa year or two ago about, you know,
14:45SPEAKERwe found the biggest CRT ever made,
14:47SPEAKERwhich was a Sony, this was probably not a CRT.
14:51SPEAKERIt was 45.
14:51SPEAKERSo this was probably not a CRT you're thinking of
14:54SPEAKERbecause the biggest CRT screen ever made was only 45 inch
14:57SPEAKERand it was like 400 pounds.
14:59SPEAKERAnd like that was, I think it was barely made.
15:01SPEAKERI think they didn't even make that many of them.
15:03SPEAKER- It was unclear if they even made one.
15:05SPEAKERLike before they found the one
15:07SPEAKERthat was in the Japanese restaurant,
15:09SPEAKERthat wasn't unclear that it was actually produced yet.
15:12SPEAKER- Now there were CRTs that were built
15:13SPEAKERinto giant wooden cabinets as like furniture back in the day
15:18SPEAKERthat you could be thinking of,
15:19SPEAKERbut even that wouldn't be anywhere near
15:20SPEAKERthe dimensions you're talking about.
15:22SPEAKER- So I went down the other side of this rabbit hole
15:24SPEAKERand I looked up when plasmas started taking off.
15:27SPEAKERAnd in the early 2000s,
15:29SPEAKERthe biggest plasmas were about 40 inches, 45 inches,
15:32SPEAKERwere about 10 grand, 15 grand a pop.
15:36SPEAKERLater in the early 2000s, so like 20 to that,
15:39SPEAKERlike sometime between the start of Twitter and 2010, 2012,
15:45SPEAKERPanasonic sold a hundred inch version of its plasma
15:47SPEAKERthat was driven by 220 volt power in the US.
15:51SPEAKER- Yikes.
15:52SPEAKER- Kevin Smith famously put one at the foot of his bed.
15:55SPEAKER- Yes, I've heard that story.
15:57SPEAKER- And I think like for a while it was on display
16:01SPEAKERin the shopping center in the Westfield downtown
16:02SPEAKERwhere Nordstrom used to be.
16:04SPEAKERSo you could go to look at one
16:05SPEAKERand it was hanging in that center,
16:07SPEAKERlike that's a shopping center that has a center column
16:10SPEAKERthat has escalators that go up around the edge
16:11SPEAKERand they hung it in the center there
16:12SPEAKERso you could actually see it.
16:13SPEAKERIt was extremely large,
16:16SPEAKERbut that would have been too late for this.
16:18SPEAKERSo I bet what you saw with some sort of projection TV
16:20SPEAKERwould be my guess.
16:21SPEAKER- That was my guess.
16:22SPEAKERThe other thing that came to mind when I read this was DLP,
16:25SPEAKERwhich was getting pretty big around this time,
16:26SPEAKERwhich is a form of rear projection.
16:28SPEAKER- Yeah, DLP would have been after this, I think though.
16:32SPEAKER- No, I looked it up.
16:33SPEAKERThe technology was invented in like '87.
16:36SPEAKER- Oh, right.
16:37SPEAKER- Pretty sure by the late '90s
16:39SPEAKERthey were starting to get out as consumer sets.
16:41SPEAKERI mean, that wouldn't look like a CRT.
16:43SPEAKERSo maybe unless you're forgetting what the screen type was,
16:47SPEAKERI'm not sure if that would apply, but DLP TVs got huge.
16:49SPEAKERSo they were, I think,
16:50SPEAKERprobably the biggest screens out there at the time.
16:53SPEAKER- Well, so I bought a rear projection TV in 2000
16:56SPEAKERthat was 55 inches and DLP wasn't an option
16:59SPEAKERat that point really.
17:01SPEAKER'Cause I would have absolutely bought the thinner one.
17:02SPEAKER'Cause the benefit of the DLP was that the throw,
17:05SPEAKERlike to get a CRT rear projection TV,
17:07SPEAKERyou had to have three big giant tubes in the bottom
17:10SPEAKERthat then were projected onto the screen.
17:13SPEAKERThe DLP's, either they didn't exist or the bulbs burned out.
17:16SPEAKERMaybe that might've been why I didn't buy it
17:18SPEAKERis 'cause you had to keep replacing the bulbs
17:19SPEAKERevery 400 or 1,000 hours or something.
17:22SPEAKERBut it could have also been front projection
17:24SPEAKERis the other thing.
17:24SPEAKERA lot of people, like I know a couple of friends
17:28SPEAKERwhen I was a kid had front projection TVs
17:30SPEAKERembedded in those big cabinets
17:32SPEAKERthat looked like it was built into the wall,
17:34SPEAKERbut it was actually a projector hanging
17:36SPEAKERfrom the back of the room.
17:36SPEAKERAnd you may not have noticed that as a kid.
17:40SPEAKEROld giant TVs, man.
17:42SPEAKER- Yeah, the mystery deepens.
17:44SPEAKERThe other email here about TV related stuff
17:48SPEAKERis a bit more informational.
17:49SPEAKEROr in fact, I kind of want to put this to maybe the audience
17:51SPEAKER'cause I know you and I are both using old solutions
17:54SPEAKERfor this.
17:55SPEAKERJessica writes in, "The bane of my existence
17:58SPEAKERis my HDMI switch.
18:00SPEAKERI've tried multiple different brands and cost points.
18:02SPEAKERHowever, the ones I've owned have been hot trash.
18:05SPEAKERWhat do you both use for HDMI switching if needed
18:08SPEAKERor do you avoid it entirely?
18:09SPEAKERI've got a PS5 Switch 2, Series S and a Raspberry Pi 5
18:15SPEAKERused as a retro console and rotary replacements.
18:18SPEAKERI just want something my wife and I can push a button
18:20SPEAKERto switch inputs reliably."
18:22SPEAKERSo I think you and I both are still using
18:25SPEAKERpretty old Sony receivers with HDMI inputs.
18:28SPEAKERSo this is like not super helpful to Jessica,
18:31SPEAKERbut I'm hoping people can write in or on our Discord
18:33SPEAKERif you have better options.
18:35SPEAKER- Now that you have HDR, an HDR TV that does newer HDMI,
18:39SPEAKERare you just using the ports on the back of the TV?
18:41SPEAKER- So my receiver is on the cusp where it supports 4K
18:45SPEAKERbut not HDR of any kind.
18:48SPEAKERSo yeah, I would strip HDR
18:49SPEAKERif I even ran anything through that.
18:51SPEAKERSo my TV has four inputs
18:53SPEAKERand three are just straight devices, consoles and stuff.
18:56SPEAKERAnd then the receiver currently is getting one input
18:59SPEAKERfor everything I have that does not need HDR.
19:02SPEAKER- Okay.
19:03SPEAKER- But if I get an Apple TV,
19:04SPEAKERthat's all gonna have to go out the window
19:05SPEAKER'cause then I'm gonna have not enough ports.
19:07SPEAKER- Or you could just, yeah,
19:08SPEAKERpull the receiver out of the pipeline.
19:10SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm trying to avoid having to get up
19:12SPEAKERand juggle cables every time I want to use something
19:14SPEAKERthat's not hooked up.
19:16SPEAKERI see people talk all the time about HDMI switchers
19:18SPEAKERthese days in relatively positive terms.
19:20SPEAKERBut I mean, like Jessica here obviously
19:23SPEAKERhas had a bad experience with those.
19:24SPEAKERSo I certainly don't have any recommendations
19:26SPEAKERfor which ones are good.
19:28SPEAKER- Yeah, I used to use physical button HDMI switchers
19:32SPEAKERthat were like you hit a clicky button
19:34SPEAKERand it would switch the connection.
19:36SPEAKER- Yeah.
19:37SPEAKER- That was in the pre-HDMI two days.
19:40SPEAKERI'm using that receiver still
19:42SPEAKER'cause I'm still on a non-HDR TV, so it's great.
19:45SPEAKERBut also the only things I have plugged into the TV
19:47SPEAKERthese days are a switch, the Xbox Series S
19:50SPEAKERand the Apple TV.
19:52SPEAKERSo I have enough ports on the back of the TV theoretically.
19:55SPEAKER- I would look for a switcher that supports EAC,
19:58SPEAKERsorry, what's the new spec called?
20:02SPEAKER- Yeah, are you thinking of EARC?
20:03SPEAKER- EARC, yeah.
20:04SPEAKER- EARC for audio.
20:05SPEAKERThere's HDMI 2.1 for all the video features.
20:07SPEAKERThere's like, that's another reason
20:09SPEAKERI have never bothered upgrading all this stuff.
20:12SPEAKERPart of the reason I wanted to read this
20:13SPEAKERis I think I've mentioned this before.
20:14SPEAKERI've kind of gotten interested in maybe a more modular form
20:18SPEAKERof I need something to drive speakers
20:20SPEAKERand I need something to switch HDMI,
20:22SPEAKERbut I don't necessarily,
20:24SPEAKERI definitely don't need most of the features
20:25SPEAKERand a very expensive AV receiver
20:27SPEAKERthat does all those things.
20:29SPEAKER- Yeah.
20:30SPEAKER- So like some more modular and maybe smaller solution
20:33SPEAKERthat's like a switcher and some kind of amp
20:36SPEAKERthat are separate, I'm kind of interested in these days,
20:38SPEAKERbut again, I don't have good recommendations
20:41SPEAKERfor what switchers are good for this sort of thing.
20:43SPEAKERI also, I always worry about latency being introduced
20:46SPEAKERor weird processing stuff like interfering with image quality
20:51SPEAKERor stripping parts of the HD of R signal or whatever.
20:53SPEAKERLike I'm always paranoid about sending the video signal
20:56SPEAKERthrough too many intermediaries.
20:58SPEAKER- It shouldn't, like if the switch is set up right,
21:01SPEAKERit shouldn't do any of that stuff.
21:02SPEAKERIt should just pass straight through it
21:03SPEAKERwith no additional latency.
21:05SPEAKER- Particularly like the HDMI 2.1 spec
21:07SPEAKERseems so onerous to implement that I would assume
21:09SPEAKERif you were compliance,
21:10SPEAKERthen it's doing what it's supposed to be doing,
21:12SPEAKERbut who knows?
21:14SPEAKER- What I was gonna say is you should look for one
21:15SPEAKERthat supports CEC.
21:17SPEAKER- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:18SPEAKER- So that way, 'cause the beautiful thing is
21:21SPEAKERif all the stuff in your chain supports CEC,
21:23SPEAKERwhich all those devices should,
21:25SPEAKERwhen you hit the button to turn it on,
21:27SPEAKERit should just switch to the right input
21:29SPEAKERon all the devices in the chain.
21:32SPEAKERAnd the technology is a little fiddly,
21:36SPEAKERbut I'm sure that there are options out there
21:39SPEAKERand I bet folks in the audience
21:40SPEAKERwill have some recommendations, so.
21:42SPEAKER- Yeah, that's my hope in reading this
21:43SPEAKERis that people will have feedback.
21:44SPEAKERThe last thing I'll say real fast about CEC,
21:46SPEAKERdid you see these people on the Discord
21:48SPEAKERtwo months, three months ago, something like that,
21:51SPEAKERlinking, I think the last time we talked about CEC,
21:53SPEAKERlinking a project a guy did
21:55SPEAKERto effectively hack the CEC signals in his device chain
21:59SPEAKERwith like a Raspberry Pi?
22:00SPEAKER- Whoa, what?
22:01SPEAKER- There are, I'd have to go revisit this
22:04SPEAKERto fully describe how it worked,
22:07SPEAKERbut I think over the HDMI port on a Pi,
22:09SPEAKERhe was able to like use it as a serial interface
22:13SPEAKERto detect the CEC signals coming in,
22:15SPEAKERor there might actually be like a Python library
22:17SPEAKERthat kind of does that for you.
22:19SPEAKERAnd he full on posted some code examples of him,
22:22SPEAKERlike intercepting and parsing the signals
22:24SPEAKERand then wrote a little utility to control them.
22:27SPEAKER- That is wild.
22:28SPEAKER- Like to basically, it was basically to like,
22:30SPEAKERadjust the bad behavior of some of the devices
22:33SPEAKERthat are, which we talk about all the time.
22:34SPEAKERLike some things, like some consoles behave badly,
22:37SPEAKERlike they always want to change inputs
22:39SPEAKERwhen they're turned on or whatever.
22:41SPEAKERThere's like undesirable behavior in the way CEC devices
22:45SPEAKERwill sometimes take control of the TV.
22:46SPEAKERAnd this guy basically was like writing a layer
22:49SPEAKERto stop some of that stuff from happening.
22:51SPEAKERIt was fascinating.
22:52SPEAKERI really need to go back and revisit that.
22:57SPEAKER- Yeah, it's, I'm looking at a thread on Reddit right now
22:59SPEAKERthat talks about the best HDMI 2.1 switch.
23:01SPEAKERAnd they're talking about things like dropped frames
23:04SPEAKERat 120, you know, blackouts at 120 Hertz at 4K video,
23:08SPEAKERand HDMI CEC signals not passing.
23:12SPEAKERSo like this, unfortunately,
23:14SPEAKERthis might be one of those categories
23:16SPEAKERwhere you just have to keep buying and returning things
23:18SPEAKERuntil you find one that works, is the other thing.
23:20SPEAKER- Yep, yep.
23:22SPEAKER- Like there's no wire cutter review on HDMI switches
23:25SPEAKER'cause only weirdos like us have that stuff.
23:27SPEAKER- Sadly, yes.
23:29SPEAKERAll right, this is from Francisco.
23:33SPEAKERI'm curious if you guys have ever messed around
23:35SPEAKERwith MicroTik's stuff.
23:37SPEAKERIt seems well liked and fairly affordable
23:39SPEAKERfor brand new switches and routers.
23:40SPEAKERMicroTik is a network hardware company
23:43SPEAKERin the kind of prosumer space.
23:44SPEAKERI should jump in real quick if it's kind of
23:47SPEAKERin the ubiquity vein, TP-Link-O-Mato, that kind of stuff.
23:51SPEAKERI've heard the interface for managing them is a bit arcane
23:54SPEAKERand they make interesting choices
23:56SPEAKERon what ports to include and what standards to bake in.
24:00SPEAKERMaybe that's how they keep costs down.
24:01SPEAKERSome of their gear seems like it's aimed more at small ISPs,
24:04SPEAKERbut they have plenty of home lab friendly stuff
24:06SPEAKERlike the RB5009 router and CRS310 and CRS309 switches
24:13SPEAKERthat I've personally been eyeing.
24:16SPEAKERThere's definitely people on our server who like MicroTik.
24:18SPEAKERIn fact, even outside the server,
24:20SPEAKERI see a lot of love for MicroTik, for sure.
24:23SPEAKERThe one thing, as he kind of mentions here,
24:26SPEAKERthe one thing I've been a little skittish about
24:27SPEAKERand maybe you tell me if I'm getting too zealous
24:33SPEAKERin this pursuit or not, but they use a custom OS
24:37SPEAKERand I'm really trying to get away
24:38SPEAKERfrom kind of vendor specific anything these days
24:42SPEAKERand just go as generic as possible and stuff like this.
24:45SPEAKERSo if you get MicroTik stuff,
24:47SPEAKERyou're learning their OS and their interface
24:49SPEAKERand their way of doing things,
24:50SPEAKERas opposed to a more generalized solution,
24:52SPEAKERmuch like Ubiquiti.
24:53SPEAKER- Yeah, it kind of reminds me of your old,
24:55SPEAKERit reminds me more of the older,
24:58SPEAKERthe last generation of Ubiquiti software
25:00SPEAKERthat your edge router runs,
25:02SPEAKERnot necessarily like the modern, gooied up,
25:05SPEAKERclassy version of the Ubiquiti software.
25:07SPEAKER- My impression, again, I haven't used it,
25:09SPEAKERbut my impression of the MicroTik software
25:11SPEAKERand interface is it is definitely
25:13SPEAKERpretty networking grognard, like hardcore type of stuff.
25:18SPEAKER- I don't, I think it has a little bit
25:20SPEAKERof a softer edge than that,
25:22SPEAKERbut the folks I know who are into it are very like,
25:28SPEAKERhey, let's write the rules for our firewall in a text file.
25:31SPEAKER- Yeah, people seem to love it though.
25:33SPEAKERLike I've kind of seen almost entirely positive stuff
25:37SPEAKERabout MicroTik from people who have it.
25:40SPEAKER- Yeah, I think like I'm looking
25:41SPEAKERat their router page right now,
25:42SPEAKERand like for 200 bucks you can get something
25:44SPEAKERwith a bunch of 10 gigabit, sorry,
25:47SPEAKER2.5 gigabit ethernet ports.
25:49SPEAKEROh, and one 10 gig SFP cage.
25:51SPEAKERSo yeah, like that seems pretty,
25:54SPEAKERlike that is an appropriate price
25:56SPEAKERfor that hardware from what I look at.
25:58SPEAKER- Yeah, you can get a lot for a good price
26:00SPEAKERfrom them as far as I've seen.
26:02SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't have any personal experience though.
26:05SPEAKER- This is an interesting question from Danny.
26:08SPEAKERPCs have more than enough power nowadays
26:10SPEAKERto multitasking efficiently.
26:12SPEAKERWhy as a standard in windows,
26:14SPEAKERcan't I separate user input devices
26:16SPEAKERso I can check emails while my kid
26:18SPEAKERis playing Disney speed storm.
26:20SPEAKERVideo games can already take keyboard
26:22SPEAKERand controller inputs separately
26:23SPEAKERfor same screen multiplayer.
26:26SPEAKERI don't know of any technical reason that couldn't exist.
26:28SPEAKERI'm assuming it's just because Microsoft
26:30SPEAKERhas not built such a feature.
26:32SPEAKER- The OS is don't, like having made games
26:36SPEAKERwhere people are like, hey man,
26:37SPEAKERwhy don't you have split screen in this game before?
26:39SPEAKERIt's really hard to have multiple view ports
26:42SPEAKERon modern graphics cards 'cause they're not designed
26:44SPEAKERto be time-sliced.
26:45SPEAKER- That's the one thing I was gonna say
26:46SPEAKERthat I realized as I was saying,
26:47SPEAKERthere's no technical reason you couldn't do this
26:49SPEAKERis that, yeah, if you're on a single GPU system,
26:51SPEAKERlike that does exist now.
26:53SPEAKERI think that's the type of thing where you need like.
26:56SPEAKER- Yeah.
26:57SPEAKER- It does exist in some stuff.
26:58SPEAKERI think SRIOV is the thing you need
27:01SPEAKERthat lets you partition resources on PCI express devices,
27:05SPEAKERbut I don't know how many graphics cards support that.
27:07SPEAKERLike you'll see the odd Linus Tech Tips video
27:10SPEAKERwhere he's got infinite money to throw
27:13SPEAKERat some problem like this and makes things like this work,
27:16SPEAKERbut maybe it is actually a harder problem
27:19SPEAKERat the hardware level to solve than I'm giving it credit for
27:21SPEAKERbut I think it is solvable or will be at some point,
27:24SPEAKERbut whether Microsoft ever builds a feature like that
27:28SPEAKERfor something that's like a pretty major edge case,
27:32SPEAKERI think for most people or edge use case remains to be seen.
27:36SPEAKER- Well, so the kind of killer app for consumers for SRIOV
27:39SPEAKERis running two GPU, like a GPU accelerated host
27:44SPEAKERand a GPU accelerated VM and slicing off some of that.
27:47SPEAKERSo yeah, in the same way that you can say,
27:49SPEAKERhey, give your virtual machine two of my 16 CPU cores,
27:53SPEAKERwith this, you can say, oh, give the virtual machine
27:56SPEAKER10% of my GPU, right?
27:59SPEAKERIt's not shipping in any consumer version of Linux
28:02SPEAKERthat I'm aware of and Microsoft hasn't looked at that yet.
28:04SPEAKER- Yeah.
28:05SPEAKER- I mean, I think when that comes online,
28:08SPEAKERthen we'll see a bunch of weird applications
28:10SPEAKERwhere people do, hey, assign this mouse to this VM
28:13SPEAKERand assign this keyboard to this VM
28:15SPEAKERand that's essentially what you're talking about doing.
28:17SPEAKER- Yeah.
28:18SPEAKER- Like running a hypervisor
28:19SPEAKERwith multiple virtual machines running underneath it
28:21SPEAKERthat some run on for your kid and some run on your thing.
28:24SPEAKERLike, for example, when you connect to GeForce Now,
28:27SPEAKERI'm sure that's what's happening.
28:28SPEAKERYou're not getting a whole machine, right?
28:31SPEAKERMaybe you're getting a whole GPU,
28:33SPEAKERbut you're probably not getting a whole machine.
28:34SPEAKERAnyway.
28:35SPEAKER- Yeah, course in video, you know,
28:37SPEAKERhas access to slightly more exotic hardware
28:39SPEAKERto make things like that work
28:40SPEAKERthan the average consumer at the moment, but.
28:42SPEAKER- Yeah.
28:43SPEAKER- Hopefully we'll get there.
28:44SPEAKER- I mean, and the other thing is,
28:45SPEAKERit's always the business decision, right?
28:47SPEAKERIs like, how many people are gonna use this
28:48SPEAKERand is it just cheaper to, like,
28:50SPEAKERrather than building one giant beefy computer
28:53SPEAKERthat three people can use at a time,
28:54SPEAKERis it cheaper to do that or is it cheaper to use,
28:58SPEAKERto buy three cheap computers?
28:59SPEAKER- Right.
29:00SPEAKER- And like having started, like,
29:03SPEAKERwhen I worked for my congressman,
29:05SPEAKERhe had a Wang mini computer,
29:06SPEAKERwhich was a giant, like, filing cabinet-sized computer
29:12SPEAKERthat had, or three filing cabinet-sized computers
29:14SPEAKERfrom being real, that had five terminals hung off of it
29:18SPEAKERand five people could use it at the same time.
29:19SPEAKERBut if somebody was doing a mail merge,
29:21SPEAKERthen the whole damn thing got slow.
29:23SPEAKERSo like, you know, it's like shared resources
29:27SPEAKERmeans that you have shared problems
29:28SPEAKERand often not desirable.
29:30SPEAKER- Yes, fair.
29:32SPEAKERAs a quick aside, I have kind of enjoyed boning up on,
29:36SPEAKERI guess you'd call it the colloquial terminology
29:38SPEAKERfor old computers that were used back in the day.
29:40SPEAKERLike when you say mini computer,
29:41SPEAKERthat was mini to mini relative to like mainframes,
29:45SPEAKERto room-sized or refrigerator-sized computers at the time.
29:49SPEAKERAnd then I gather that micro computer
29:52SPEAKERis what kind of desktop-sized,
29:54SPEAKERlike traditional personal computer-sized computers
29:57SPEAKERwere called when they first came along.
29:58SPEAKER- Yeah, they quickly replaced that with personal computer
30:01SPEAKERbecause that made more sense, right?
30:02SPEAKER'Cause it was a one-person computer
30:03SPEAKERversus a shared computer.
30:05SPEAKER- Yeah, but it does kind of throw you for a loop
30:08SPEAKERwhen you hear mini computer these days
30:10SPEAKERand have to remind yourself that, again,
30:12SPEAKERit was mini compared to a gigantic computer.
30:14SPEAKERSo even a mini computer is quite big.
30:16SPEAKER- It was a trip 'cause that mini computer
30:17SPEAKERhad some basic software that you could run on it,
30:20SPEAKERbut it also had a couple of like custom programs
30:22SPEAKERthat they'd had written that were basically
30:25SPEAKERfor generating mailed responses,
30:28SPEAKERlike physical mail responses to letters from constituents.
30:32SPEAKERSo like as an intern there,
30:34SPEAKERone of my jobs was to open up all the mail
30:36SPEAKERand type in what the person was pissed off about
30:38SPEAKERor needed help with.
30:39SPEAKER- Oh God, by hand?
30:41SPEAKER- By hand.
30:42SPEAKER- I guess there was no OCR widely available at the time.
30:44SPEAKER- 1993 and '94, no.
30:46SPEAKERAnd so like you got a fair amount of,
30:48SPEAKERhey, my disability got canceled
30:50SPEAKERor my VA benefits are having problems or stuff like that.
30:52SPEAKERAnd those you'd hand off to the person in the office
30:54SPEAKERwho handled that stuff.
30:55SPEAKERBut then if it was just somebody who was pissed off
30:57SPEAKER'cause they worked at a jeans factory
30:58SPEAKERand NAFTA was gonna destroy their life,
31:01SPEAKERthen you put them in the pro or anti,
31:04SPEAKERyou went to the NAFTA category
31:06SPEAKERand then you went to the pro or anti,
31:08SPEAKERyou had to suss that,
31:09SPEAKERthe 18 year olds were in charge of figuring this out.
31:12SPEAKERAnd then you had to type in their name and address
31:19SPEAKERand like a note from their letter,
31:22SPEAKERwhich was usually handwritten in some unintelligible scratch
31:26SPEAKERand then send that, put that in the database.
31:28SPEAKERAnd then at the end of the day,
31:29SPEAKERwe'd generate a mailing list that was like,
31:30SPEAKERhey, I just wanted to let the congress,
31:33SPEAKERlet you know the congressman got your email.
31:34SPEAKERWe really appreciate the feedback.
31:36SPEAKERHere's how he feels about this issue
31:38SPEAKERthat you're upset about.
31:39SPEAKERAnd most of the time it was like one of 20 form letters
31:43SPEAKERthat got sent back.
31:44SPEAKERBut sometimes you had to like,
31:45SPEAKERyou had to come up with a new form letter
31:47SPEAKERfor a topic that somebody,
31:48SPEAKERlike if somebody was upset about the watershed
31:50SPEAKERfor a TVA lake, then you had to take that
31:52SPEAKERand the chief of staff had to write an email
31:54SPEAKERand then we had to take it to the congress.
31:55SPEAKERIt was a whole process, but the way the computer man.
31:59SPEAKER- At least, at least somebody was reading the letters.
32:02SPEAKER- Yeah.
32:02SPEAKER- I don't know if that's still the case these days,
32:04SPEAKERbut anyway, the point, the point though, is, is, I mean,
32:07SPEAKERthat is, that is the answer to this question.
32:09SPEAKERI think for now is that it's certainly way easier
32:12SPEAKERand probably also cheaper to just get like a two,
32:14SPEAKER$300 mini PC that kind of learned is what was a Disney speed
32:19SPEAKERstorm or whatever it was.
32:20SPEAKERLike, like you can get very cheap computers
32:22SPEAKERto do things like that now.
32:23SPEAKER- Yeah.
32:24SPEAKER- I mean, this is also a good opportunity for,
32:26SPEAKERfor shit running downhill where like you, you, you,
32:30SPEAKERnext time you get an upgrade,
32:31SPEAKERnot that that's an easy thing to do in this,
32:33SPEAKERthe time of our, the season of our memory discontent,
32:36SPEAKERbut you know, next time you get an upgrade,
32:38SPEAKERyou kick that old machine downhill one notch.
32:41SPEAKER- Yup.
32:41SPEAKER- The kiddo gets an upgrade.
32:42SPEAKER- Yup, all right.
32:44SPEAKERReal quick, speaking of children playing video games,
32:47SPEAKERAntonio, do you have any video game recommendations
32:50SPEAKERfor a two year old where they can just move the stick around
32:52SPEAKERand see fun things happen on screen.
32:55SPEAKERI firmly believe in Patrick Klepek's philosophy
32:57SPEAKERof not forcing my interests on my kid,
32:59SPEAKERbut my toddler is always intrigued when she sees me play
33:01SPEAKERgames and she took to fidgeting with game pads
33:03SPEAKERaround the house at like six months.
33:05SPEAKERI've tried sharing the controller with her a few times
33:08SPEAKERand geometry wars retro evolved where she moves us
33:11SPEAKERand I shoot, but we die in just a couple of minutes.
33:14SPEAKERSadly, there's no God mode or infinite lives
33:16SPEAKERin geometry wars, everyday shooter,
33:17SPEAKERor even vampire survivors.
33:20SPEAKERAlso, she eventually tries stealing the whole controller
33:22SPEAKERfrom me, so if I ever found a game we could vibe with,
33:25SPEAKERI had to even try modifying the controls to split them
33:27SPEAKERacross two controllers.
33:30SPEAKERConsoles are good for this, though I think I can tinker
33:31SPEAKERwith something custom by using software like DS4
33:35SPEAKERfor Windows, got any advice or recommendations?
33:37SPEAKER- Okay, so I think I've been a success at this.
33:39SPEAKERMy daughter's 13 now, she plays games with a mouse
33:41SPEAKERand keyboard as the Lord intended and I hear her yelling
33:46SPEAKERabout noobs in Fortnite and whatever other games
33:48SPEAKERshe's playing on the reg.
33:51SPEAKER- I started her with actually Super Mario Maker.
33:54SPEAKERSo we loaded up Super Mario Maker and I put her
33:55SPEAKERin one of those levels that Dan Reichert
33:57SPEAKERand Patrick Klepik made for those, no, no, I'm kidding,
33:59SPEAKERthat would be horrible.
34:00SPEAKER- Oh God.
34:00SPEAKER- They made famously cruel levels to taunt each other with
34:05SPEAKERfor a series of years.
34:07SPEAKERI did the opposite, so I built really simple levels.
34:10SPEAKERI looked at the ethos of one-one where they teach you
34:13SPEAKERto jump and they teach you to run and I dialed it back
34:16SPEAKERlike 15 notches, so I just taught her how to move Mario first
34:19SPEAKERwith no enemies and nobody on the screen.
34:23SPEAKERThen I gave her a couple of guys to stomp and jump over.
34:25SPEAKERI gave her the ability to hit hammers and I just built
34:28SPEAKERincreasingly complicated levels until she kind of understood
34:31SPEAKERwhat was going on.
34:34SPEAKERThen I eventually gave her,
34:38SPEAKERthen I eventually gave her the access
34:42SPEAKERto the building controls, right?
34:44SPEAKERAnd I taught her how to build levels and she built levels
34:46SPEAKERto see if I could beat them, which was challenging.
34:50SPEAKERAnd that led to her wanting to play like Mario
34:53SPEAKERand playing more Mario games.
34:56SPEAKERIt turns out a lot of the kind of, I guess it's Wii,
35:00SPEAKERmaybe Wii U era on Mario Nintendo platformers
35:03SPEAKERhave pretty good kid modes where like
35:07SPEAKERin Yoshi's Woolly World,
35:09SPEAKERwhat's the one that came out of the Wii U, Yoshi's--
35:12SPEAKER- Sounds right, I should remember that.
35:15SPEAKER- Anyway, one of the Yarn games,
35:18SPEAKERYoshi's Crafted World maybe, I think is what it is.
35:21SPEAKER- I think those are both games.
35:22SPEAKERThere's definitely a Woolly World.
35:23SPEAKERThere might also be a Crafted.
35:25SPEAKER- Anyway, they had--
35:26SPEAKER- Yes, that's correct.
35:28SPEAKER- They had a mode where you could play both of you,
35:30SPEAKERonce she got the gist of the platformer controls,
35:33SPEAKERthen we set her up in one of those where if she fell,
35:37SPEAKERthen she just got bubbled and then I had to pop the bubble
35:40SPEAKERso she'd come back out again.
35:41SPEAKERAnd like the penalty, some of those even do things like
35:45SPEAKERwhen you fall down into a hole,
35:46SPEAKERit just bounces you right back out again.
35:48SPEAKER- Yeah, I think like Super Mario Wonder on the Switch,
35:51SPEAKER'cause like most of the recent Nintendo games
35:53SPEAKERdo have some level of assist like that.
35:56SPEAKER- Yeah, it's like an extreme little kid mode.
35:58SPEAKERAnd that was enough to get her over the hump.
36:00SPEAKERAnd then eventually she was like,
36:01SPEAKERhey, why don't you die?
36:02SPEAKERWhy do you die when you go in the hole and I don't?
36:04SPEAKERAnd--
36:06SPEAKER- Then you have to have a hard conversation.
36:07SPEAKER- Well, no, no, but it ended up being like,
36:10SPEAKERsometimes that was really cool 'cause like she would fall
36:12SPEAKERand get, she would fall in and get bounced back out
36:14SPEAKERand I would be dead and she'd have to bring me back to life,
36:17SPEAKERwhich was like a real moment of joy for her.
36:19SPEAKERShe's like, look, I did something dad couldn't do.
36:21SPEAKERAnd like that was some of the stuff that made her excited
36:26SPEAKERto keep playing games.
36:27SPEAKERBut mostly, like mostly your kids just wanna spend time
36:30SPEAKERwith you, right?
36:31SPEAKEREspecially at that age, like you're their favorite person
36:34SPEAKERand you and the other parent are the favorite persons.
36:40SPEAKERAnd spending time with them is incredibly valuable.
36:43SPEAKERAnd so figure out the things that they're into.
36:46SPEAKERLike I play Roblox games with my kid.
36:47SPEAKERI play Minecraft, played, like the other big one
36:50SPEAKERwas Minecraft when she was old enough
36:52SPEAKERto get into Minecraft for just a few years,
36:54SPEAKERfor like four or five, I think.
36:56SPEAKERI would go in when I was traveling a lot for work
36:58SPEAKERand I would build stuff in my hotel room at night
37:01SPEAKERso that when she would log into our shared world,
37:04SPEAKERshe'd see like there'd be an enormous 30 foot,
37:08SPEAKERyou know, 300 block tall Mario sculpture
37:10SPEAKERor a stormtrooper sculpture or something like that.
37:13SPEAKERAnd that was always a kick.
37:15SPEAKER- That's fun. - Yeah.
37:16SPEAKER- That's fun.
37:17SPEAKERThere's also, I don't have a good specific game
37:19SPEAKERrecommendation, but you know, there's a ton of games
37:20SPEAKERthat just have like very highly granular difficulty options
37:23SPEAKERthese days that let you adjust like, you know,
37:26SPEAKERhealth and damage and like kind of everything you can,
37:28SPEAKERevery knob you can think of to tweak difficulty
37:30SPEAKERthey expose.
37:31SPEAKER- I think that's good.
37:32SPEAKERLike, here's the thing.
37:33SPEAKERYou, it's the thing to remember is that kids at that age
37:37SPEAKERaren't obsessed with winning.
37:39SPEAKERThey're just like moving the guy on the screen
37:41SPEAKERand watching, like having control over the world
37:43SPEAKERis really fun.
37:44SPEAKERSo you don't, you don't have to like, you know,
37:48SPEAKERyou don't have to bring our old gamer,
37:50SPEAKERextreme mentality into it, right?
37:53SPEAKERLike they don't have to get the pacifism achievement
37:55SPEAKERin Geometry Wars.
37:56SPEAKERThey can just hang out and have fun.
37:58SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
38:00SPEAKERAll right, let's do at least one more email.
38:02SPEAKERI'd want to make sure we have time
38:03SPEAKERfor some Discord questions as well.
38:04SPEAKERHere's one from Tim.
38:07SPEAKERI believe you guys mentioned the Apple TV+ show "Pluribus"
38:10SPEAKERon a recent episode and that it was creepy
38:12SPEAKERand you were debating watching it
38:13SPEAKERwith certain family members.
38:15SPEAKERCan you expand on what you heard?
38:17SPEAKERI've been about ready to add this to my watch list next,
38:19SPEAKERbut I don't enjoy creepy at all.
38:21SPEAKERI've probably watched about three horror type films
38:23SPEAKERin my life and they were only horror adjacent at best.
38:26SPEAKERI watched these shows on my lunch break from work
38:29SPEAKERand have even less desire to see creepy stuff then.
38:33SPEAKERSo I'd love to hear more.
38:34SPEAKERWas that you saying that?
38:35SPEAKERI don't remember.
38:36SPEAKER- I said that, yeah.
38:37SPEAKERI don't think I remember saying that
38:38SPEAKER'cause I had been avoiding as much about "Pluribus"
38:40SPEAKERas I could.
38:42SPEAKER- It's not--
38:42SPEAKER- Did you watch it?
38:44SPEAKER- Yeah, I watched the whole thing.
38:45SPEAKERIt's great.
38:45SPEAKERIt's my favorite one of his shows ever.
38:48SPEAKER- So this email is very well timed
38:50SPEAKERbecause we finally cracked into it and watched,
38:52SPEAKERI've only seen the first episode so far,
38:54SPEAKERbut it was one of the strongest first episodes
38:56SPEAKERof a TV show I have ever seen.
38:57SPEAKER- The first episode has some like disturbing,
39:02SPEAKERyou know, it's about apocalypse, right?
39:04SPEAKER- Yeah, but like a goofy, kind of a goofy one.
39:06SPEAKER- I mean, there's definitely some pretty unsettling elements
39:09SPEAKERto what happens.
39:10SPEAKERAgain, I've only seen the first episode,
39:11SPEAKERbut like, I don't know if I'd quite go as far
39:14SPEAKERas to say it's horror-ish.
39:16SPEAKER- It's like, it's adjacent,
39:18SPEAKERbut it's less adjacent than say something like
39:20SPEAKER"Cabin in the Woods," which is like a horror,
39:23SPEAKERa slasher comedy movie, right?
39:24SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, you know, if you're a bar,
39:26SPEAKERit sounds like Tim's bar is incredibly low,
39:29SPEAKERbasically non-existent for horror.
39:30SPEAKERLike this might actually be too much
39:33SPEAKERif you like literally have never seen a horror movie
39:35SPEAKERand have no desire to, but I would certainly not rate it
39:38SPEAKERas like--
39:40SPEAKER- It's unsettling.
39:41SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
39:42SPEAKER- The thing I would say is the first episode
39:44SPEAKERis I think as bad as it gets.
39:46SPEAKER- Yeah, I can see that.
39:48SPEAKER- Everything afterwards is inching back
39:51SPEAKERtowards some semblance of normality.
39:53SPEAKER- Dying to see more of it.
39:55SPEAKER- It is, I had to pace myself 'cause I would have gone
39:58SPEAKERthrough and watched it like eight hours in a row.
40:01SPEAKER- I easily could have watched another episode.
40:03SPEAKERWe like to space things out at least more than one a day,
40:06SPEAKERbut I felt like, whatever, gauging reaction
40:11SPEAKERto things like TV shows from your social media feed
40:13SPEAKERis fraught and highly subjective and anecdotal,
40:17SPEAKERbut I kind of felt like people seemed kind of mixed on it
40:19SPEAKERas it was airing, but I don't know.
40:21SPEAKER- I don't know.
40:23SPEAKER- I don't know, maybe some people were just expecting
40:25SPEAKERanother "Breaking Bad" or something,
40:27SPEAKERbut it's obviously very different compared
40:30SPEAKERto some of his past stuff.
40:31SPEAKER- It definitely has the "Breaking Bad,"
40:33SPEAKERlike we're gonna write ourselves into a corner
40:35SPEAKERand then figure out how we get out of it
40:36SPEAKERin the next episode vibe in a way that I really,
40:40SPEAKERlike I really loved that.
40:41SPEAKERThat was the thing I liked about "Breaking Bad."
40:43SPEAKERIt's another antihero show,
40:45SPEAKERbut it's not as an unlikable antihero
40:49SPEAKERas what's-his-name is in "Breaking Bad."
40:52SPEAKER- Yes.
40:53SPEAKER- In some ways, in some ways, she's much, much worse.
40:56SPEAKER- I was going to say, again, with only the benefit
40:58SPEAKERof the first episode under my belt,
40:59SPEAKERlike I would, in some ways, she's much more insufferable
41:02SPEAKERthan Walter, like Walter White does terrible things,
41:06SPEAKERbut like he does mostly, well, not mostly.
41:09SPEAKER- No, it's all selfish.
41:10SPEAKER- By the end, yes, he is revealed to be
41:12SPEAKERa kind of a selfish monster, but the woe is me.
41:17SPEAKERI'm such a unhappy, wildly successful celebrity author
41:22SPEAKERstuff in the first episode is a bit insufferable,
41:25SPEAKERbut her agent or whatever,
41:27SPEAKERI don't wanna talk too much about the show,
41:28SPEAKERbut she is called out on her shitty attitude
41:31SPEAKERfor how privileged she is by a person in the first episode,
41:33SPEAKERso the show is very aware of that.
41:36SPEAKER- It's very good.
41:36SPEAKERIt opens with some real contact vibes, too, which I love.
41:38SPEAKER- Yeah, yes, one of the better society falling apart
41:43SPEAKERrapidly depictions I've seen in a while.
41:45SPEAKER- It's way more fun than something like "Don't Look Up,"
41:49SPEAKERwhich I found incredibly real and impossible
41:53SPEAKERto ever consider watching again.
41:54SPEAKER- Yeah.
41:56SPEAKER- I would watch it.
41:57SPEAKER- Watch the first episode.
41:58SPEAKERIf the first episode is not too much for you,
42:01SPEAKERyou'll be fine, is the TLDR.
42:04SPEAKER- Cannot wait to watch more of that.
42:06SPEAKEROkay, let's get into some Discord questions here.
42:09SPEAKERTactical tug, frequent asker.
42:12SPEAKERI know you've touched on the subject
42:14SPEAKERa couple of times over the years,
42:15SPEAKERbut could we maybe get a full 3D printing episode
42:17SPEAKERat some point in the future?
42:19SPEAKERI've done a dumb and gotten deep
42:20SPEAKERinto the rabbit hole of the printing hobby.
42:22SPEAKERWould be great to get your opinions
42:23SPEAKERand/or experiences with it.
42:24SPEAKERMaybe ask Norm to join as an expert, too.
42:28SPEAKER- So I've bought some 3D printed stuff lately.
42:30SPEAKER- Okay.
42:31SPEAKER- Just like under desk mounts for stuff
42:33SPEAKERthat I wanna hide that is specific
42:35SPEAKERfor that particular piece of equipment, stuff like that.
42:38SPEAKER- My Motu audio interface is held up
42:40SPEAKERby a 3D printed bespoke custom designed mount.
42:44SPEAKERI'm holding it right now in my hand.
42:46SPEAKER- Yeah, I have a project that I am kind of excited about
42:52SPEAKERright now that's pretty stupid,
42:54SPEAKERbut that would really benefit from 3D printing.
42:56SPEAKER- Okay.
42:57SPEAKER- And also I've been watching the people making whistles.
43:00SPEAKERLike a friend of the show, Dan Sinker,
43:02SPEAKERand some of his Chicago cronies
43:06SPEAKERare printing tens of thousands of whistles a week right now.
43:09SPEAKERAnd the utility seems there, finally.
43:15SPEAKER- Oh yeah, yeah.
43:16SPEAKER- And the hardware is not that expensive.
43:17SPEAKERThe plastic's easy to get.
43:20SPEAKERIt seems like maybe I should get a printer again.
43:22SPEAKER- Yeah, yes.
43:23SPEAKER- It's time.
43:24SPEAKER- Yes, if we do such an episode,
43:25SPEAKERI think I will be the interested interrogator
43:28SPEAKERfor that episode, especially if we have Norm on as well.
43:30SPEAKERLike I just, like I respect the field
43:34SPEAKERand all the things that it is becoming useful for.
43:36SPEAKERIt's just probably not something I'm ever gonna get into,
43:39SPEAKERor at least certainly not in an apartment,
43:41SPEAKERmaybe down the line at some point,
43:42SPEAKERbut I would be much more in the question asking role.
43:46SPEAKER- Having sat in a room with a 3D printer,
43:48SPEAKERprinting ABS for years and years and years,
43:50SPEAKERI don't ever want to be sitting in the room
43:52SPEAKERwith the printers going again.
43:53SPEAKER- Yep, yep.
43:55SPEAKERI don't know that Norm's doing all that much printing
43:56SPEAKERanymore, but anyway, I can ask him.
44:00SPEAKERI'm sure if he is, he'd be willing
44:01SPEAKERto come on and talk about it.
44:02SPEAKERI think the FDM printers, especially like the stuff
44:05SPEAKERthat Bamboo and some of those folks are doing
44:06SPEAKERwith decent speed FDM printing is pretty remarkable, so.
44:11SPEAKER- Cool, a question from Max.
44:13SPEAKERWhat purpose do PCI express retaining clips serve
44:16SPEAKERwhen the cards get screwed into the case anyway?
44:19SPEAKERTrying to remove a GPU next to a Noctua NH14
44:23SPEAKERbrought me to the brink of madness.
44:25SPEAKERDefinitely been there.
44:27SPEAKERIf there weren't a retaining clip on the slot,
44:30SPEAKERit wouldn't have been an issue.
44:31SPEAKERI don't have a good answer for this.
44:32SPEAKERI don't know if you do.
44:33SPEAKER- Oh, I know the answer for this.
44:34SPEAKER- Well, okay, go ahead.
44:35SPEAKER- So in the olden times, back in the day,
44:38SPEAKERbefore they started putting the retaining clips,
44:39SPEAKERso what Max is talking about is the little clip
44:41SPEAKERon the typically the first or second PCI express slot
44:45SPEAKERthat kind of latches into that U-shaped notch
44:48SPEAKERat the end of the slot, and you have to push it down
44:50SPEAKERto release the card when you pull the card out.
44:52SPEAKERThis is on the right end of the slot to be clear.
44:55SPEAKER- Yeah, and in the old days when you had single slot GPUs
44:59SPEAKERwhere you only had one bracket, you would often,
45:01SPEAKERwhen we would get a system shipped to us for maximum PC,
45:04SPEAKERwe would often receive a Dell or an HP or something,
45:08SPEAKERand it would get to the office,
45:09SPEAKERand the GPU would be rattling around inside the case.
45:14SPEAKERSo they started putting on the bracket
45:17SPEAKERon the end of the clip so that that wouldn't happen,
45:19SPEAKERso the cards wouldn't come loose in shipping.
45:22SPEAKER- Wait, again, to the point of the question, though,
45:24SPEAKERwas it not also screwed to the rear mount?
45:27SPEAKER- With the single slot card, it's a U-shaped screw.
45:30SPEAKERIt's not, the screw doesn't go through a hole.
45:33SPEAKERIt's just like, it just slots in.
45:34SPEAKER- Wait, so it was able to work its way out?
45:36SPEAKER- They would wiggle loose, yeah.
45:37SPEAKER- Wow.
45:38SPEAKER- Multiple times we had them show up with the GPU
45:40SPEAKERor the CPU cooler, that was the other good one,
45:42SPEAKERjust flopping around in there.
45:44SPEAKERSo they added the retention clips
45:46SPEAKERso that they could ship more reliably.
45:48SPEAKER- Interesting.
45:49SPEAKER- As cards have gotten heavier, it's more important,
45:51SPEAKER'cause they will, a card that weighs as much as a 4090
45:55SPEAKERor something like that will get loose over time.
45:58SPEAKERThe thing I will say is that newer,
46:00SPEAKERespecially nicer, motherboards tend to have
46:01SPEAKERretention bracket release mechanisms
46:04SPEAKERthat are away from all that.
46:05SPEAKER- Yeah, like a button off to the side
46:07SPEAKERthat you usually can access better,
46:08SPEAKERalthough as you say, as with many nice motherboard features,
46:12SPEAKERunfortunately those are often limited
46:13SPEAKERto the very expensive models.
46:15SPEAKER- Yeah, the trick that Gordon and I used to do
46:19SPEAKERat the Maximum PC Lab is that you would grab a slot cover
46:24SPEAKERand just slide that down the back of the video card
46:26SPEAKERand you could hit the edge of the pusher with that usually
46:30SPEAKERto pop 'em loose.
46:32SPEAKERThere's all sorts of innovation in this space,
46:33SPEAKER'cause everybody knows it sucks.
46:35SPEAKERAsus has a new thing on some of their new motherboards
46:37SPEAKERwhere you kinda tilt the card once it's unscrewed.
46:40SPEAKERIn a weird way, you apply a certain kind of pressure
46:42SPEAKERin a certain direction, it just releases automatically.
46:45SPEAKERBut that was so confusing to people
46:47SPEAKERthat they had to put a sticker on the slot
46:50SPEAKERbefore you put the card in
46:51SPEAKERso that people knew that the feature was there
46:52SPEAKERso they didn't break the retention mechanism apparently.
46:55SPEAKERSo yeah, it's not a, like,
46:58SPEAKERlook, if I have to ship a PC these days
47:00SPEAKERand I'm putting a big giant video card in it,
47:02SPEAKERI usually ship the video card and the computer separately.
47:04SPEAKER- Yep, yep, that's the way to go.
47:06SPEAKERIn fact, I was sitting here thinking,
47:07SPEAKERwhy didn't they just do that in the first place?
47:09SPEAKERBut of course, the big point of a pre-built computer
47:12SPEAKERis you don't have to put it together yourself,
47:14SPEAKERso most people would not accept that.
47:17SPEAKER- Honestly, if I'm carrying a PC someplace, even in the car,
47:22SPEAKERand it's not laying flat on its back
47:23SPEAKERso that the motherboard is down
47:24SPEAKERand the gravity's pushing the card into the slot,
47:27SPEAKERI usually take the GPU out.
47:28SPEAKER- Yep, yep, that is the way to go, I think.
47:31SPEAKERThe last thing I'll say real quick,
47:32SPEAKER'cause I've done this before,
47:33SPEAKERit is possible to non-destructively remove that clip
47:35SPEAKERfrom the slot.
47:37SPEAKER- On the ones that it's just a clip that you can't,
47:39SPEAKERon the ones that there's, like,
47:39SPEAKERa weird button or lever mechanism, you almost never can.
47:42SPEAKER- Yeah, although in that case,
47:43SPEAKERhopefully things are arranged in such a way you don't care
47:45SPEAKERbecause it's easy to just push the button to get it out.
47:47SPEAKERBut I had that problem because I bought an NVMe drive
47:52SPEAKERwith a heat sink on it,
47:53SPEAKERand the socket on my board was so close to the slot
47:56SPEAKERright above it that it could not get the drive
47:58SPEAKERinto the socket because it was,
48:00SPEAKERbut you could just get in there,
48:02SPEAKERthis is a cheaper board, but you could just get in there
48:04SPEAKERand, like, very gently bend it outward and take it off,
48:08SPEAKERwhich I did, and then put it back on
48:09SPEAKERwhen I stopped using that board.
48:10SPEAKERIt was just fine.
48:11SPEAKER- The new, my new least favorite thing,
48:14SPEAKERlike, usually the good NVMe slot
48:17SPEAKERis right next to your video card.
48:18SPEAKERIt's usually just above the video card slot.
48:21SPEAKERAnd on air-cooled systems or systems with big GPUs
48:24SPEAKERor whatever, you almost always have to take
48:26SPEAKERmost of the computer apart to change the damn drive,
48:29SPEAKERwhich is just obnoxious.
48:30SPEAKER- I hate it.
48:31SPEAKEROh, it's terrible.
48:32SPEAKER- Yeah.
48:33SPEAKER- Okay, all right.
48:35SPEAKERI've got a pair of phone-related questions here
48:38SPEAKERthat I think are pretty good.
48:39SPEAKERPat McSee, "When did the average person
48:42SPEAKERstart having a cell phone?
48:44SPEAKERGranted, I may be a little younger
48:45SPEAKERthan the average listener, but in my head,
48:47SPEAKERmost people didn't have cell phones
48:48SPEAKERuntil right before the iPhone came out,
48:50SPEAKERso circa 2005 or six.
48:53SPEAKERThen the iPhone happened
48:54SPEAKERand suddenly everyone had a cell phone.
48:56SPEAKEROr maybe I just happened to live
48:57SPEAKERin rural late-happening place."
49:01SPEAKER- When I left Tennessee,
49:05SPEAKERit was unusual to have a cell phone.
49:06SPEAKERThat was in 2000.
49:07SPEAKER- Okay.
49:08SPEAKER- Like, young people often would have cell phones,
49:10SPEAKERbut they were very much of the,
49:12SPEAKERI have this and I'm paying for service
49:13SPEAKERthat I can use it in an emergency,
49:15SPEAKERbut I'm not gonna use it to actually talk to people.
49:17SPEAKER- Yeah, that's roughly my memory as well.
49:19SPEAKERThis is easy for me to remember
49:20SPEAKERbecause I got my first cell phone
49:22SPEAKERshortly after I moved out here,
49:23SPEAKERwhich was early 2003.
49:25SPEAKER- Yeah, when I moved to California,
49:28SPEAKERthe pack, at the time Pack Bell,
49:29SPEAKERwhat later became AT&T, was charged,
49:33SPEAKERlike it was the beginning of unlimited talking, basically,
49:36SPEAKERor really high talk times.
49:38SPEAKER- Sure.
49:38SPEAKER- And for a while, our cell phone,
49:40SPEAKERwe just had, we didn't have a home line here.
49:42SPEAKER- Yeah, that was exactly the calculation I made
49:44SPEAKERwhen I came out here,
49:45SPEAKERand I think that's why I finally got a cell phone
49:46SPEAKERwas I got here and I was like,
49:48SPEAKERwell, I can register a landline
49:50SPEAKERnow that I've gotten to California,
49:51SPEAKERor I could just go ahead and finally get a cell phone
49:52SPEAKERand not worry about it, and that's what I did.
49:54SPEAKERAlthough I remember being pretty resistant
49:56SPEAKERto the idea of getting one prior to that
49:58SPEAKERbecause I felt like I didn't want to be
50:00SPEAKERcontactable anywhere I was at any time.
50:02SPEAKERLike, it felt a little invasive to me,
50:04SPEAKERbut I feel like I also remember feeling
50:05SPEAKERlike I was like behind the curve of most people I knew.
50:09SPEAKER- See, I had a heavy car,
50:10SPEAKERso having a cell phone saved me
50:13SPEAKERfrom walking 10 miles down the freeway
50:15SPEAKERto get something to come tow me.
50:16SPEAKER- Fair.
50:20SPEAKER- For me, it was the jump from the old CDMA phones,
50:24SPEAKER'cause I was on Verizon or Sprint or somebody in Tennessee,
50:28SPEAKERand getting GSM and having just like more talk time,
50:33SPEAKERhonestly, was like, it became a thing.
50:36SPEAKEREventually, we had to get a landline
50:38SPEAKERbecause we needed to get DSL.
50:40SPEAKERBut yeah, until then.
50:42SPEAKERAnd then the next big jump was when all the phones
50:45SPEAKERswitched from being phones to smartphones, at least here.
50:48SPEAKERThat, to me, I have a really distinct memory
50:51SPEAKERof standing on a Muni platform in like 2010,
50:54SPEAKERaround the time we launch tested,
50:57SPEAKERand looking around and being like,
50:58SPEAKERwow, every single person on this platform
51:00SPEAKERis holding an iPhone, looking at the internet right now.
51:02SPEAKERThat is wild.
51:03SPEAKER- That was his iPhone 4, I think?
51:04SPEAKER- iPhone 4, yeah.
51:06SPEAKERLike the first one was expensive, they didn't subsidize it,
51:11SPEAKERso it was like $700.
51:13SPEAKERThe second one had bad battery life
51:14SPEAKERand a kind of crappy camera compared to a lot of
51:16SPEAKERwhat we now think of as dumb phones.
51:18SPEAKER- 3G, you mean?
51:19SPEAKER- The 3G, yeah.
51:20SPEAKER- 3G is the first one I got.
51:22SPEAKER- But the 4 was a real jump ahead.
51:25SPEAKER- And there was 3GS in the middle of that,
51:27SPEAKERwhich was just kind of a minor bump.
51:29SPEAKERBut yeah, I still, I kind of regret
51:31SPEAKERnever having gotten an iPhone 4.
51:33SPEAKERLike I forget, I can't remember why I didn't get one.
51:37SPEAKER- It's the one I have on the wall behind me blown up.
51:40SPEAKER- Oh, okay.
51:40SPEAKERYeah, I mean, to a lot of people,
51:42SPEAKERI think it is still like the iPhone
51:43SPEAKERor at least a very major milestone, but.
51:45SPEAKER- Yeah, to me, it was the thing
51:47SPEAKERwhen it went from being a novelty to,
51:52SPEAKERto like the thing, a must-have technology device.
51:59SPEAKER- Yeah, and it was the first one to double the pixel density
52:01SPEAKERon both dimensions, among other things.
52:02SPEAKERLike I know it did a lot of things,
52:04SPEAKERbut in fact, I think probably the thing it did
52:07SPEAKERwas increasing, again, doubling the resolution
52:10SPEAKERon the X and the Y.
52:11SPEAKERLike I think that was when they came up
52:13SPEAKERwith the retina display term, right?
52:14SPEAKERBut I just remember thinking at the time,
52:16SPEAKERlike that is an impossibly high resolution
52:18SPEAKERfor such a tiny screen.
52:19SPEAKERWhy are you doing that?
52:20SPEAKERAnd then you see it and you're like, oh, that's why.
52:22SPEAKER- And also at the same time,
52:24SPEAKERthe phones have been around long enough
52:25SPEAKERthat people were building websites,
52:27SPEAKERthey worked with the phones,
52:28SPEAKERand apps were starting to come available for,
52:30SPEAKERlike the app ecosystem was really taking off at that time.
52:33SPEAKERLike it was the confluence of things, right?
52:36SPEAKERThat made it good.
52:37SPEAKERAnd if you held it the wrong way,
52:39SPEAKERthe cell phone wouldn't work.
52:40SPEAKER- That's right, that's right.
52:40SPEAKER- You know, you had that going for you too.
52:42SPEAKER- And also it was all very exciting to watch it happening
52:44SPEAKERand not realizing all the while
52:46SPEAKERthat it was going to destroy society.
52:48SPEAKER- Yeah.
52:49SPEAKER- But anyway, Hal Seager has another phone question here,
52:53SPEAKERmore of an existential question.
52:56SPEAKERAre phone numbers becoming functionally useless?
52:58SPEAKEREvery day, my work and cell number get bombarded
53:00SPEAKERwith at least 20 spam calls.
53:02SPEAKERMy work service provider does an excellent job
53:05SPEAKERmarking them as spam.
53:07SPEAKERMy Pixel 9 does an equally proficient job.
53:09SPEAKERBut what happens when someone you may not know
53:11SPEAKERis actually trying to reach you?
53:13SPEAKERHave our Pavlovian reactions to an unknown number
53:15SPEAKERand the immediate decision to dismiss the call
53:18SPEAKERor mark it as spam created an environment
53:20SPEAKERwhere the use of a phone for contacting someone
53:23SPEAKERis functionally useless?
53:26SPEAKERThis is, I wish I had a better answer to this question
53:28SPEAKERother than to say like, "Yeah, kind of."
53:31SPEAKER- I, the Verizon anti-spam tool that I,
53:36SPEAKERthat you get free if you're a Verizon member now
53:39SPEAKERmarks the spam calls pretty reliably.
53:41SPEAKER- Yeah.
53:42SPEAKER- But it was horrible when I was applying to jobs actively
53:44SPEAKERand would get random calls from recruiters
53:46SPEAKERand like I had to pick up every frigging phone call
53:49SPEAKERthat I got if I was waiting for somebody to call me.
53:51SPEAKER- Is the spam marking happening at the carrier level,
53:54SPEAKERnot the phone OS level?
53:56SPEAKER- Both.
53:57SPEAKER- Both.
53:58SPEAKER- Yeah, so the Verizon tool, there's an API apparently
54:00SPEAKERthat can mark that can tag something as spam
54:04SPEAKERfrom the Verizon tool,
54:05SPEAKERbut also it seems like the phone does it as well.
54:07SPEAKER- Got it, okay.
54:08SPEAKER- Yeah.
54:09SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, I've had this experience
54:10SPEAKERliterally in the last two weeks
54:11SPEAKERand I was in one case waiting for a call from a doctor
54:15SPEAKERthat I had not called before,
54:16SPEAKERso I didn't know what their number was gonna be.
54:18SPEAKERSame thing with the financial service.
54:20SPEAKER- Well, and often the doctor calls are unknown.
54:22SPEAKERLike my doctor's always unknown,
54:24SPEAKERwhich means it's gonna get the spam filter
54:26SPEAKERif I'm not careful.
54:26SPEAKER- Or the call was coming from a scheduling office,
54:29SPEAKERwhich was not the number of the main kind of front office,
54:31SPEAKERand so I had no idea who to expect call from.
54:34SPEAKERIt led to me picking up and answering
54:36SPEAKERwhat were not entirely spam calls.
54:38SPEAKERI mean, they were not like literally like scams.
54:40SPEAKERThey were other, I guess you'd call them legitimate.
54:44SPEAKERThey were like upsell.
54:44SPEAKER- Telemarketing?
54:45SPEAKER- Yeah, kind of, kind of.
54:46SPEAKERIt was just like, it was like a call.
54:48SPEAKERWell, it was a call from my bank trying to upsell me on,
54:52SPEAKERlike, do I want to engage with there for you?
54:53SPEAKERYou know what I mean?
54:54SPEAKERIt was just like, there were calls targeted to me,
54:56SPEAKERnot just like random scams,
54:58SPEAKERbut they were still people I did not want to talk to
55:00SPEAKER'cause I had no interest in their services.
55:02SPEAKERAnd yes, it is a nightmare.
55:04SPEAKERAnd I don't know a solution other than legislation
55:07SPEAKERthat currently will never happen.
55:09SPEAKER- Like, look, if you want to win a national public office,
55:11SPEAKERthen come out and say, hey,
55:13SPEAKERI'm gonna fix the phone problem.
55:14SPEAKER- That really seems like that could actually gain
55:16SPEAKERa lot of political currency in the current climate.
55:18SPEAKERLike people are really fucking fed up with stuff like this.
55:21SPEAKERAnd like, I bet there are a lot of people
55:23SPEAKERthat would pledge their lives to a candidate
55:25SPEAKERwho literally ran on an unshitification platform.
55:30SPEAKER- Look, making phones work again,
55:32SPEAKERit seems like, like,
55:33SPEAKERremember when the phone used to ring
55:35SPEAKERand you were happy about it?
55:36SPEAKERYou were like, oh man, somebody wants to talk to me.
55:37SPEAKERThat's cool, I like talking to people.
55:39SPEAKER- Yeah, I'll try.
55:40SPEAKERThat's so long ago.
55:41SPEAKERI'm not sure if that ever happened for me, but sure.
55:43SPEAKER- I was playing, I was doing a Resident Evil Requiem video
55:48SPEAKERfor PC World, looking at frame times in that game,
55:51SPEAKER'cause it's kind of wild how, for not a twitchy game,
55:54SPEAKERthey've done a really good job making it feel
55:57SPEAKERlike it's fast, even at like 30 frames a second
55:59SPEAKERwith full path tracing and everything turned up.
56:02SPEAKERBut there's a scene at the beginning where the phone rings
56:04SPEAKERand one of the heroes has to pick up a phone
56:07SPEAKERthat's just sitting there and she's to pick it up
56:09SPEAKERand it's like, man, I wouldn't pick up that phone.
56:11SPEAKERThere's no way I would pick up that phone.
56:13SPEAKERThat's the most unrealistic part of this whole thing.
56:15SPEAKER- That's the true horror.
56:16SPEAKER- Yeah.
56:18SPEAKER- This is an interesting question from The Lodge.
56:22SPEAKERA weird thing happened recently.
56:24SPEAKERI found out there's a whole AI-generated internet footprint
56:27SPEAKERaround my high school band 20 years
56:29SPEAKERafter we stopped playing shows in our hometown.
56:32SPEAKERIt's built almost entirely of pages scraped
56:34SPEAKERfrom a few lyrics that we posted online as kids.
56:38SPEAKERIt felt equal parts flattering, eerie,
56:40SPEAKERand most importantly, out of my control.
56:43SPEAKERYou've both created work that's reached far more people
56:45SPEAKERthan I ever have.
56:46SPEAKERWhen you see your work echoed back at you
56:47SPEAKERthrough algorithms, summaries, or content you didn't create,
56:51SPEAKERhow does that make you feel?
56:52SPEAKERDo we really own our work once it lives online?
56:55SPEAKER- No.
56:56SPEAKER- Yeah, I guess that's the answer.
56:59SPEAKER- Once you post it, it's gone.
57:01SPEAKERYou can't get it back.
57:04SPEAKER- I haven't really had that experience though.
57:05SPEAKERMaybe you have.
57:06SPEAKEROr maybe I just don't go looking for it.
57:09SPEAKER- I see people, I don't go looking for it,
57:11SPEAKERbut occasionally it pops up.
57:12SPEAKERMy daughter occasionally will come out and be like,
57:14SPEAKER"Hey, dad, is this you?"
57:15SPEAKERAnd I'll be like, "Yeah, that's me."
57:17SPEAKERSome of the stuff that I tested has been kind of evergreen.
57:20SPEAKERSome of the food stuff, and some of the coffee stuff,
57:22SPEAKERand things like that.
57:24SPEAKERI think that AeroPress video that we shot
57:27SPEAKERin the Sausalito office, the fifth day I was at work,
57:32SPEAKERhas been James Hoffman posted it,
57:35SPEAKERreferences it in videos occasionally,
57:36SPEAKER'cause it's one of the first AeroPress videos on YouTube.
57:43SPEAKERIt's always weird to see that stuff show up.
57:46SPEAKERThe big one for me, I think,
57:48SPEAKERis the picture that Norm took of me
57:50SPEAKERwearing the original Oculus Rift,
57:53SPEAKERwhich haunted me for years,
57:55SPEAKERto the point that, I've told this story before, I'm sure,
57:58SPEAKERbut I went to pitch days
57:59SPEAKERwhere people would pitch their VR startups
58:02SPEAKERon a stage in front of a bunch of spectators
58:05SPEAKERand also a handful of VCs.
58:07SPEAKERAnd there were eight pitches that day, I think,
58:10SPEAKERor nine pitches that day,
58:11SPEAKERand five of them had my picture in them.
58:15SPEAKERBy the time the third one popped up,
58:17SPEAKERI laughed out loud,
58:18SPEAKERand the guy who was doing the pitch was like,
58:19SPEAKER"What are you laughing at?"
58:20SPEAKERI was like, "That's me.
58:22SPEAKER"Everybody's using the same picture of me
58:24SPEAKER"in these pitches."
58:25SPEAKER- Nobody had put that together?
58:26SPEAKER- No.
58:27SPEAKER- That you were sitting in the room?
58:28SPEAKER- No, then nobody realized that I was sitting in the room.
58:31SPEAKERSo, yeah.
58:32SPEAKER- I should say, I guess I obviously have seen
58:34SPEAKERa zillion references to work we have done.
58:37SPEAKERI guess I was interpreting this more literally
58:39SPEAKERfrom the AI or programmatic angle.
58:42SPEAKERI have not seen much or any of my stuff
58:46SPEAKERextruded through the algorithm machine
58:48SPEAKERand turned into some new type of content.
58:50SPEAKER- Extruded is such a good word for that.
58:52SPEAKER- It really is.
58:53SPEAKERYes, thank you.
58:54SPEAKERBut you know what I mean, though.
58:55SPEAKERHe's talking about something minor,
58:57SPEAKERlike a minor input they put online
58:59SPEAKERthat has now been turned into something bigger.
59:01SPEAKERLike I haven't seen,
59:02SPEAKERother than those pitch emails we get all the time of people,
59:07SPEAKERor not people, but LLM summarizing things we've said
59:10SPEAKERin podcast and turning it into some kind of pitch,
59:12SPEAKERlike I haven't seen much that I've done
59:15SPEAKERthat's gotten turned into new things.
59:17SPEAKER- Look Brad, I really loved the way that you highlighted
59:20SPEAKERthe charming use of a shed as a place
59:23SPEAKERto store your old technology in the February 23rd episode.
59:28SPEAKER- That's very flattering.
59:30SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't, for me, it's more,
59:32SPEAKERit's always been human touch at this point.
59:35SPEAKER'Cause I don't, I feel like our stuff isn't big enough
59:39SPEAKERto get extruded through the AI machine usually.
59:42SPEAKER- Yeah, I think that's right.
59:43SPEAKERBut also, yes, no, you don't own anything you put online.
59:46SPEAKERIt's just out there for anybody
59:47SPEAKERto take and do with what they will.
59:49SPEAKER- There was an Anacrusis video that Chad and I made
59:51SPEAKERthat Asmon Gold embedded in one of his videos.
59:55SPEAKERThat was bad.
59:57SPEAKERThat one was, that was not okay.
1:00:00SPEAKERYeah.
1:00:01SPEAKER- On many levels, ugh.
1:00:03SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:00:04SPEAKER- Okay, let's do a few more here
1:00:06SPEAKERbefore we get out of here, really short ones.
1:00:10SPEAKERLeonadar, I guess is how you want to say this.
1:00:13SPEAKERMy nephew recently purchased a used PC
1:00:15SPEAKERthat took some work to get going.
1:00:17SPEAKERHe said he put Atlas OS on the machine
1:00:20SPEAKERand it's performing a lot better.
1:00:22SPEAKERI looked up Atlas OS online
1:00:24SPEAKERand it appears to be a modified Windows 11 install.
1:00:27SPEAKERAm I wrong in thinking that's super sketchy
1:00:29SPEAKERfrom a security perspective?
1:00:31SPEAKER- Yeah, it'd be a cold day in hell
1:00:32SPEAKERbefore I use any of that stuff.
1:00:34SPEAKER- Yeah, so I've been aware of Atlas OS
1:00:36SPEAKERand there's another one called like Revy OS
1:00:38SPEAKERor like Revolution OS, I think,
1:00:40SPEAKERwhich purport to be Windows distributions,
1:00:43SPEAKERwhich is not a thing that exists.
1:00:45SPEAKERLike Windows distros is not a thing.
1:00:48SPEAKERThey are just modified installs of Windows.
1:00:50SPEAKERI did look up Atlas OS again last night
1:00:52SPEAKERand I think at this point,
1:00:54SPEAKERI don't think they are distributing modified ISOs,
1:00:57SPEAKERto be clear.
1:00:58SPEAKER- They'll do an ISO injection for you if you want.
1:01:00SPEAKER- Yes, it is.
1:01:01SPEAKERI believe it is a thing you pair with an ISO
1:01:04SPEAKERor an install.
1:01:05SPEAKERIt's a deep loader.
1:01:06SPEAKERIt's a glorified deep loader,
1:01:07SPEAKERwhich is what most people call things like this.
1:01:10SPEAKER- Yeah, but also they're not signing their executables
1:01:14SPEAKERor anything like that.
1:01:15SPEAKERSo like their process is install Windows
1:01:19SPEAKERand then run this thing that you have to turn off
1:01:22SPEAKERall your security protections for.
1:01:23SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:01:24SPEAKER- Like if you're going to do,
1:01:25SPEAKERif you want to de-bloat Windows,
1:01:26SPEAKERthen learn how to de-bloat Windows.
1:01:28SPEAKERI would generally advise against using one of these tools.
1:01:31SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:01:32SPEAKER- Same thing like running the LTSC version,
1:01:34SPEAKERwhich is the basically embedded terminal version of Windows.
1:01:38SPEAKER- Yeah, but you're not going to get security updates
1:01:40SPEAKERfor in a timely manner.
1:01:41SPEAKERA lot of the features are not implemented in the same way.
1:01:45SPEAKER- Things are going to be weird.
1:01:47SPEAKERAnd also there's a real chance if they become popular
1:01:50SPEAKERto the point that people are actually using them
1:01:52SPEAKERin large numbers,
1:01:54SPEAKERthat Microsoft will just break key things
1:01:57SPEAKERthat you need for your OS to work.
1:01:58SPEAKERAnd then you'll be in a,
1:01:59SPEAKER"Hey, I have to reinstall
1:02:01SPEAKERin order to fix this problem situation."
1:02:02SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't trust these things
1:02:04SPEAKERfrom multiple angles.
1:02:05SPEAKERThere is the obvious one of they're pretty vulnerable
1:02:08SPEAKERto like supply chain malware type attacks.
1:02:11SPEAKERSo they're a vector for people to do bad things
1:02:13SPEAKERwho are bad actors.
1:02:14SPEAKERThere's also just the aspect of,
1:02:16SPEAKERI don't trust what they are fiddling.
1:02:18SPEAKEREven if they are coming from a noble place
1:02:22SPEAKERin terms of intentions,
1:02:22SPEAKERI still just don't necessarily trust them to tinker
1:02:25SPEAKERwith the innards of something like Windows
1:02:27SPEAKERbecause a lot of the things they would be looking to disable
1:02:30SPEAKERin a modern Windows are liable to break.
1:02:31SPEAKERYou know what I mean?
1:02:32SPEAKERLike edge.
1:02:33SPEAKER- Maybe downstream consequences, yes.
1:02:34SPEAKER- Like edge, edge, edge.
1:02:36SPEAKERThe way you might disable edge in a Windows install
1:02:38SPEAKERcould very well break functionality you do want in Windows.
1:02:41SPEAKERAnd like, I don't trust them to always have a good handle
1:02:44SPEAKERon what they're doing.
1:02:45SPEAKERAnd in fact, if you go through the Atlas documentation,
1:02:47SPEAKERand again, I hate referring to these things
1:02:49SPEAKERas like a separate name.
1:02:50SPEAKERLike they're just Windows with modifications.
1:02:52SPEAKERLike they're not separate operating systems.
1:02:54SPEAKERBut if you go through the list of things they can turn off,
1:02:57SPEAKERthey have them broken out into sections of,
1:03:00SPEAKERokay, here are things that once you disable them,
1:03:02SPEAKERyou can't get back.
1:03:02SPEAKERYou're gonna have to reinstall Windows entirely
1:03:04SPEAKERif you want to re-enable these five things that we turn off.
1:03:07SPEAKERLike here are things that with some hoops jumped through,
1:03:10SPEAKERyou can maybe restore properly.
1:03:12SPEAKERLike that's a level of modifying my operating system
1:03:15SPEAKERthat I'm just not comfortable with.
1:03:16SPEAKER- And the kind of the difference with something like Linux,
1:03:22SPEAKERwhere there are actually distros,
1:03:23SPEAKERwhere people have intentionality about things
1:03:27SPEAKERthat they change about how the OS works
1:03:28SPEAKERis that fundamentally Linux is designed to be
1:03:34SPEAKERkind of interoperable with other software.
1:03:35SPEAKERSo you can use different systems to do the same things
1:03:38SPEAKERbecause at a low level, the systems are designed
1:03:41SPEAKERto communicate in a generic way, right?
1:03:43SPEAKERSo like when you draw a window in X windows or Wayland,
1:03:46SPEAKERit's basically the same processes
1:03:48SPEAKERthat you're sending commands that are just text commands
1:03:51SPEAKERthat get sent over a pipe between one process to another.
1:03:55SPEAKERAnd Windows doesn't have that.
1:03:57SPEAKERSo like they're trying to mimic something
1:03:59SPEAKERthat doesn't exist on Windows in a lot of ways.
1:04:03SPEAKERAnd the results are gonna like,
1:04:04SPEAKERit's gonna be fine right up until the moment that it's not.
1:04:07SPEAKERAnd the way that it is not fine is TBD.
1:04:11SPEAKER- Yep. - Yep.
1:04:12SPEAKER- Yeah, if you really want to strip down an operating system
1:04:15SPEAKERthat to this degree, you should just use Linux.
1:04:17SPEAKER- Or alternately, go to one of the 50 million guides
1:04:22SPEAKERon places like Tom's Hardware or PC World
1:04:23SPEAKERthat tells you how to turn off all the co-pilot stuff
1:04:26SPEAKERand all the Bing stuff.
1:04:27SPEAKER'Cause there are registry keys for that.
1:04:29SPEAKERIn a large part, that's what these people are doing.
1:04:31SPEAKERIt's the stuff that goes beyond that that's bad.
1:04:33SPEAKERAnd also it's packaging it as a,
1:04:34SPEAKERlike the way they present it feels really gross to me.
1:04:37SPEAKER- Yep, agreed, agreed.
1:04:40SPEAKERSo there's maybe some self-flagellating aspect of this to me
1:04:43SPEAKERof like, if you're gonna use Windows,
1:04:45SPEAKERyou should bear the full brunt of its shittiness
1:04:48SPEAKERbecause you need to know
1:04:49SPEAKERthat that's more of a subjective position.
1:04:52SPEAKER- I will tell you, it's way easier to switch to Linux
1:04:57SPEAKERthan you think it's going to be.
1:04:59SPEAKERLike, you know, it is much less painful than I expected.
1:05:03SPEAKER- Yep, yep, just go give Mint a shot and go from there.
1:05:09SPEAKEROkay, a few more quick hits before we get out of here.
1:05:12SPEAKERModest Ghost, any thoughts on the ESP32?
1:05:15SPEAKERJust wanted to know what your thoughts are.
1:05:16SPEAKER- Man, I have seen this pop up so much lately.
1:05:19SPEAKERThe TLDR on it is it's a little microcontroller
1:05:22SPEAKERthat has Bluetooth and Wi-Fi built in.
1:05:24SPEAKER- And very cheap is the other thing.
1:05:26SPEAKER- Very inexpensive.
1:05:28SPEAKERThere's also a framework for it called ESPHome
1:05:31SPEAKERthat basically lets you connect it to home assistant.
1:05:33SPEAKERSo people are using them to make really inexpensive things
1:05:37SPEAKERlike home assistant connected CO2 sensors
1:05:40SPEAKERand air quality sensors and motion sensors
1:05:42SPEAKERand all sorts of other stuff.
1:05:45SPEAKERIt's been on my list of what's around
1:05:46SPEAKERwhere I haven't had time yet.
1:05:47SPEAKER- Same, same.
1:05:48SPEAKERI have, I don't know about you.
1:05:49SPEAKERI have a list, I have a tiered list of would like
1:05:52SPEAKERto do projects and the top tier is stuff
1:05:56SPEAKERthat is critical in some way.
1:05:58SPEAKERIt's like getting my NAS backups going finally
1:06:00SPEAKERbecause I need backups 'cause that's an important thing
1:06:02SPEAKERto have.
1:06:03SPEAKERIt's doing something interesting with that VPS
1:06:06SPEAKERI paid for every month besides letting it sit there
1:06:10SPEAKERidling on IRC, which is not a good use.
1:06:12SPEAKERYou know what I mean?
1:06:13SPEAKERThere's like, there's projects that are--
1:06:15SPEAKER- Are you protecting a channel or something?
1:06:16SPEAKERWhat are you doing on IRC?
1:06:17SPEAKER- I'm just just farting around.
1:06:19SPEAKER- Can you op me?
1:06:21SPEAKER- Yeah, sure. - Plus op?
1:06:22SPEAKER- I miss IRC is really what it is.
1:06:25SPEAKER- Yeah, we could set up an IRC channel on it.
1:06:27SPEAKERIRC server.
1:06:27SPEAKER- What it really is is I missed my calling
1:06:29SPEAKERin the late 90s by not having access to a shell account
1:06:32SPEAKERwhere I could run like an IRC bot or something.
1:06:34SPEAKERSo I'm just kind of living out those fantasy.
1:06:36SPEAKERAnyway, the point is like the projects
1:06:39SPEAKERthat have some urgency to them,
1:06:40SPEAKERwhether it's to like secure data
1:06:41SPEAKERor stop wasting money on something
1:06:43SPEAKERalways are gonna come first.
1:06:45SPEAKERAnd I never have time to get through all of those.
1:06:48SPEAKERSo the like would be fun to futz with projects
1:06:51SPEAKERlike doing something with an ESP 32
1:06:53SPEAKERare kind of just perpetually on the,
1:06:55SPEAKERwell, maybe I'll get to that someday list.
1:06:57SPEAKER- I really want to, like I've wanted to buy a CO2 sensor
1:07:01SPEAKERfor my office since I was sitting here
1:07:03SPEAKERwith the door closed most of the day.
1:07:05SPEAKER- So I'm fully with you
1:07:06SPEAKERand I had been looking at them for a while
1:07:07SPEAKERand until recently they were all like $200
1:07:10SPEAKERand that was just a little more than I wanted to spend.
1:07:11SPEAKERThere are starting to be some like cheapish ones.
1:07:13SPEAKERI think IKEA has like a $40 one now.
1:07:16SPEAKERLike there are finally,
1:07:17SPEAKERthere's a few options out there for like under 50 bucks
1:07:19SPEAKERfor a decent CO2 like particulate sensor.
1:07:22SPEAKER- 'Cause it's funny, like I notice
1:07:25SPEAKERlike recording the Dual Boot Diaries in this podcast,
1:07:27SPEAKERwe sit in here for an hour or two,
1:07:28SPEAKERthe doors shut the fans off.
1:07:30SPEAKERI noticed when I turned the fan on
1:07:32SPEAKERafter a long recording session
1:07:33SPEAKERand start getting fresh air forced in from the outside,
1:07:36SPEAKERI feel instantly better, more able to concentrate.
1:07:39SPEAKER- We've also been doing that every morning
1:07:42SPEAKEReven when it's cold recently.
1:07:43SPEAKERMy girlfriend introduced me to the term burping the house.
1:07:46SPEAKER- Oh yeah.
1:07:47SPEAKER- Which I guess is a European construction.
1:07:49SPEAKER- I can see that.
1:07:50SPEAKER- A lot of some, at least some European countries,
1:07:53SPEAKERthey call it burping.
1:07:55SPEAKER- That's funny. - Your home.
1:07:56SPEAKER- You just clip for blast all the air out
1:07:58SPEAKERand get fresh air in?
1:07:59SPEAKER- Yeah, pretty much.
1:08:00SPEAKER- Do you do the thing with the front door
1:08:01SPEAKERwhere you slam the door open and close
1:08:02SPEAKERand it works like a bellows?
1:08:04SPEAKER- No, but we have a pretty good through line
1:08:05SPEAKERthrough the house from the back door
1:08:07SPEAKERto the window right next to me
1:08:08SPEAKERthat just kind of gets a good cross breeze going
1:08:10SPEAKERand we're close enough to the water
1:08:11SPEAKERthat there's kind of always a breeze.
1:08:13SPEAKER- Yeah, one of the things I wanted to put on
1:08:16SPEAKERand at some point we have to redo the roof
1:08:18SPEAKERand I'm probably gonna put an electric heat pump in
1:08:20SPEAKERwhen we do that 'cause it's all up in the attic.
1:08:24SPEAKERI wanna do a whole house fan so that we can,
1:08:26SPEAKERwhich is like a high flow, really loud, obnoxious fan
1:08:30SPEAKERthat will just exhaust all,
1:08:31SPEAKERthat we open three or four windows
1:08:33SPEAKERand then you flip that thing on
1:08:34SPEAKERand it sucks all the air out of the house
1:08:35SPEAKERand you get fresh air in the inside.
1:08:37SPEAKER- My dad installed one of those
1:08:38SPEAKERwhen I was pretty young in our house,
1:08:39SPEAKERjust a giant exhaust fan.
1:08:40SPEAKERThat thing roars when you turn it on.
1:08:42SPEAKERI mean, you don't wanna stand under it, it's so loud,
1:08:45SPEAKERbut it really cycles the air.
1:08:46SPEAKERThe problem is once we got that,
1:08:48SPEAKERhe never wanted to use the air conditioning anymore.
1:08:50SPEAKERIt was like if it was too hot in the house,
1:08:52SPEAKERhe was just like, just turn the fan on, cycle the air out,
1:08:54SPEAKERdon't waste money on the electricity.
1:08:57SPEAKER- The thing about where I live is
1:08:59SPEAKEReven on days when it's like 90 degrees out,
1:09:01SPEAKERusually when the fog hits at six o'clock,
1:09:04SPEAKERit gets cool enough that if I could get the air,
1:09:06SPEAKERthe hot air that's trapped inside the house out easily,
1:09:10SPEAKERI wouldn't need to run the air conditioning.
1:09:11SPEAKERMaybe this is a dad thing.
1:09:13SPEAKER- Yep, last thing I'll say real quick.
1:09:15SPEAKERThe ESP32 project I always wanna do is
1:09:18SPEAKERI like LED light strips that are programmable
1:09:21SPEAKERand you can straight up just buy those by the foot now
1:09:24SPEAKERon like AliExpress for insanely cheap
1:09:26SPEAKERand they're like cuttable or you can cut them to size
1:09:30SPEAKERand you can pair each strip with a cheap little ESP32
1:09:32SPEAKERand then those go on your wifi
1:09:35SPEAKERand can hook into Home Assistant
1:09:36SPEAKERand you can just kind of script them to do whatever.
1:09:39SPEAKERSo that that's the thing I would use those for.
1:09:42SPEAKEROkay, we're gonna wrap up here
1:09:43SPEAKERwith what I'm going to call the me block.
1:09:46SPEAKER- Oh.
1:09:46SPEAKER- These are all very short and they're all very me.
1:09:50SPEAKERDC Actual asks, "Hey Brad, what is the software you were
1:09:54SPEAKERor are running to make a Raspberry Pi
1:09:55SPEAKERinto an AirPlay receiver?"
1:09:58SPEAKERIf you mean receiver as in a thing, you can play audio too
1:10:01SPEAKERand then that audio will come out
1:10:03SPEAKERof the audio output on the Pi.
1:10:05SPEAKERThat's Shareport Sync, S-H-A-I-R port.
1:10:09SPEAKER- That's a terrible spelling.
1:10:10SPEAKEROh, it's like air port.
1:10:12SPEAKER- Yeah, it's like airport.
1:10:13SPEAKERThat's from the days of Apple making a product
1:10:15SPEAKERcalled the airport.
1:10:16SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:10:17SPEAKER- It's S-H-A-I-R port dash sync.
1:10:20SPEAKERNow you should know as is common with open source stuff,
1:10:24SPEAKERyou want the one that is being updated
1:10:26SPEAKERlike frequently today because it was actually forked
1:10:30SPEAKERfrom the original Shareport Sync,
1:10:31SPEAKERwhich is no longer worked on
1:10:33SPEAKERand has been kind of more bond for years.
1:10:36SPEAKERI think it's Mike somebody is the guy who owns the repo
1:10:39SPEAKERof the Shareport Sync you want.
1:10:41SPEAKER- Shout out to Mike.
1:10:42SPEAKER- Yes, Mike is doing good work,
1:10:44SPEAKERbut that's probably the one that'll come up
1:10:45SPEAKERif you Google it.
1:10:46SPEAKERIf you mean the thing that can stream to AirPlay devices,
1:10:50SPEAKERthat's own tone,
1:10:51SPEAKERbut I don't think that's what you're asking for.
1:10:53SPEAKERBut anyway, there's that.
1:10:54SPEAKERWild Ryle, "Brad, did you RMA that DBX?"
1:10:58SPEAKERYeah, I sure haven't.
1:11:02SPEAKERI sure haven't.
1:11:03SPEAKER- Look at the camera chat.
1:11:03SPEAKER- I sure haven't.
1:11:04SPEAKER- He's just staring at the camera,
1:11:05SPEAKERjust shaking his head.
1:11:06SPEAKERHe's disappointed in himself, I can tell.
1:11:07SPEAKER- Should we start RMA watch 2026?
1:11:10SPEAKER- This is, I mean, look.
1:11:11SPEAKER- It's on the list, man.
1:11:12SPEAKER- If you don't RMA it soon,
1:11:14SPEAKERyou can just put it out on the curb in like six months
1:11:15SPEAKERand then call it a day.
1:11:17SPEAKER- I've got until November.
1:11:18SPEAKER- Okay.
1:11:19SPEAKER- I should really get that done though.
1:11:21SPEAKERHonestly, I mean,
1:11:23SPEAKERsince I got this little Triton compressor in line,
1:11:25SPEAKERthat's keeping me from peaking.
1:11:26SPEAKERLike that's most of what I wanted that DBX for.
1:11:31SPEAKERIt would be nice to get it back
1:11:32SPEAKERin the chain if they sent me a good one.
1:11:34SPEAKER- Here's the thing, even if they don't,
1:11:36SPEAKERwhat you do is you RMA it
1:11:38SPEAKERand then you just sell it as used,
1:11:40SPEAKERnot knowing whether it's good or bad.
1:11:41SPEAKERYou assume that the one they sent you back is good.
1:11:43SPEAKER- True.
1:11:44SPEAKER- You sell it and you're like,
1:11:44SPEAKER"Hey, I replaced this with something I like better."
1:11:48SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
1:11:50SPEAKERAll right, probably the last question.
1:11:52SPEAKERLast question from Patch.
1:11:55SPEAKERThere's been talk on the show before
1:11:56SPEAKERabout macOS being a certified Unix operating system.
1:12:00SPEAKER- But what?
1:12:00SPEAKER- (chuckles) Yes, then there's obviously Linux,
1:12:04SPEAKERbut does any other Unix actually exist at this point
1:12:06SPEAKERfor a desktop now that IBM and Sun Microsystems are gone?
1:12:10SPEAKERWell, IBM's not gone, they're just-
1:12:12SPEAKER- Just not in the Unix business these days.
1:12:13SPEAKER- Not exactly in the Unix business.
1:12:15SPEAKERSo this isn't quite the question you asked,
1:12:17SPEAKERbut I have the entire list of certified Unixs
1:12:20SPEAKERin front of me.
1:12:21SPEAKER- Wait, is BSD not a certified Unix?
1:12:23SPEAKER- No, absolutely not.
1:12:24SPEAKER- He says, knowing the answer to the question.
1:12:25SPEAKER- Absolutely not.
1:12:26SPEAKERAlso Unixs, Unices?
1:12:29SPEAKER- U-N-I-X-C?
1:12:31SPEAKER- Unix, I'm gonna say Unixs.
1:12:33SPEAKERDo you know the original spelling of Unix was U-N-I-C-S?
1:12:37SPEAKER- I, 'cause it was based on-
1:12:39SPEAKER- It's a play-
1:12:40SPEAKER- Unix, yeah.
1:12:41SPEAKER- No, no, it's a play on Multics, which was a-
1:12:43SPEAKER- Oh.
1:12:44SPEAKER- Multics, I love old operating system history. (chuckles)
1:12:47SPEAKERMultics was an older time-sharing operating system
1:12:49SPEAKERthat they kind of based Unix on in design.
1:12:52SPEAKERSo Unix was just a kind of a joke name, basically,
1:12:56SPEAKERas if we were making the single version of Multics.
1:13:00SPEAKER- On this Unix list, I see a BSD in here.
1:13:02SPEAKER- Okay, well, wait, what are you looking at?
1:13:04SPEAKER'Cause that's not-
1:13:05SPEAKER- The Wikipedia page, the list of Unix systems?
1:13:07SPEAKER- That's like Unix likes.
1:13:09SPEAKER- Oh.
1:13:10SPEAKER- What we're talking about here is that the Unix name
1:13:13SPEAKERwas passed from corporation to corporation
1:13:15SPEAKERand is now owned by somebody called the Open Group,
1:13:18SPEAKERand they only will certify your operating system as a Unix
1:13:21SPEAKERif you pay them money.
1:13:22SPEAKERA, it has to pass a ton of technical checks
1:13:25SPEAKERand functionality tests.
1:13:27SPEAKERB, you have to pay them money to have the certification.
1:13:30SPEAKER- Of course.
1:13:31SPEAKER- Here are all the Unixes still in existence.
1:13:33SPEAKERMac OS, IBM's zOS and AIX,
1:13:39SPEAKERHewlett-Packard's HPUX.
1:13:41SPEAKER- Yeah, of course.
1:13:42SPEAKER- And UnixWare and Open Server release five and six
1:13:46SPEAKERfrom the SCO group, that's it.
1:13:48SPEAKERThose are the Unixes.
1:13:50SPEAKER- It's funny, those are all the closed source ones too.
1:13:52SPEAKERWell, I guess Mac OS is mixed.
1:13:56SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, they're absolutely,
1:13:57SPEAKERlike you can compile and run the kernel of Mac OS,
1:14:00SPEAKERthat's open source.
1:14:01SPEAKERBut yes, most of these are for enterprise.
1:14:03SPEAKERAnd in fact, if you filter, I'm sorry,
1:14:06SPEAKERit's probably more than most people want to know,
1:14:08SPEAKERbut there are actually multiple Unix standards.
1:14:10SPEAKERSo like some of those I just rattled off
1:14:11SPEAKERare actually part of the Unix 95 standard.
1:14:14SPEAKER- Oh yeah, of course.
1:14:15SPEAKEREverybody loves Unix 95.
1:14:16SPEAKERIt's everybody's favorite 95 OS.
1:14:18SPEAKER- Let's see, Mac OS, oh yes, is part of Unix 03.
1:14:22SPEAKER- See, it's funny, this family tree says it's derived
1:14:24SPEAKERfrom Unix version eight.
1:14:25SPEAKER- Which one?
1:14:26SPEAKER- There's one, I'll post a link in the description.
1:14:29SPEAKER- Are you looking at that insane infographic from Wikipedia?
1:14:31SPEAKER- Oh yeah, it's fantastic.
1:14:32SPEAKER- It's like maybe the biggest chart
1:14:34SPEAKERI've ever seen in my life.
1:14:35SPEAKER- And it's an SVG too, so you can scale it infinitely.
1:14:38SPEAKER- Yes, I've seen this one.
1:14:39SPEAKERI'm sorry, I was thinking of the Linux distro chart,
1:14:41SPEAKERwhich is way bigger than this.
1:14:42SPEAKER- No, that one is true madness.
1:14:45SPEAKER- Anyway, to answer the actual question though,
1:14:47SPEAKERMac OS is the only certified Unix on the desktop.
1:14:50SPEAKERIf you mean Unix likes though, like--
1:14:52SPEAKER- Minix, Linux, all those count, right?
1:14:55SPEAKER- I think, well, I don't think there's a desktop version
1:14:56SPEAKERof Minix, Minix was so much like Multics informed Unix.
1:15:01SPEAKER- Oh boy.
1:15:02SPEAKER- Minix is basically what spawned Linux,
1:15:04SPEAKERlike Linus Torvald, if you go back and read
1:15:07SPEAKERhis original usenet post, like he kind of made Linux
1:15:09SPEAKERin the image of Minix, which was another Unix-like
1:15:15SPEAKERoperating system floating around at the time, anyway.
1:15:17SPEAKERBut yes, I think the actual spirit of this question
1:15:20SPEAKERis just like, what are Unix likes on the desktop?
1:15:23SPEAKERIt's Mac OS, Linux, like FreeBSD is a desktop.
1:15:26SPEAKERYou can run, I think you can run most of the open--
1:15:29SPEAKER- OpenBSD.
1:15:30SPEAKER- All the BSDs, so there's OpenNet and Dragonfly.
1:15:33SPEAKER- Open Solaris counts still.
1:15:35SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, that's dude.
1:15:37SPEAKEROpen Solaris and Lumos and that whole thing
1:15:40SPEAKERis like its own rabbit hole of operating system family stuff
1:15:44SPEAKERto talk about anyway.
1:15:45SPEAKERThere's definitely like other Unix-like operating systems
1:15:48SPEAKERyou can run on a desktop, but I'd say Linux and Mac OS
1:15:50SPEAKERare the two that matter.
1:15:52SPEAKER- Yeah, that makes sense.
1:15:53SPEAKERI've been running a Mac at home lately,
1:15:55SPEAKERwhich we can talk about in an upcoming episode.
1:15:57SPEAKER- Yes, yes, I think we might do a hands-on Apple update
1:16:00SPEAKERhere in the not terribly distant future.
1:16:03SPEAKER- I'm running Blue Bubbles, man.
1:16:05SPEAKER- Oh, oh, okay, I was wondering what that,
1:16:08SPEAKERwhat are you running it on?
1:16:09SPEAKER- A Mac Mini, I grabbed one from PC World,
1:16:12SPEAKERit turns out as a company that has had a bunch of people
1:16:14SPEAKERthat worked there over the years,
1:16:16SPEAKERhad a big giant stack of old Mac Minis,
1:16:18SPEAKERand I was like, hey, can I have one of these?
1:16:19SPEAKERAnd they were like, yes.
1:16:21SPEAKER- It's not an ARM Mac Mini, right?
1:16:23SPEAKER- I did not, I felt like that was gratuitous
1:16:25SPEAKERfor the use that I'm putting it to.
1:16:27SPEAKER- Sure, fair.
1:16:28SPEAKER- So I took the, like the last of them,
1:16:30SPEAKERI took like a 2018 Mac Mini, basically, yeah.
1:16:32SPEAKER- That's not terrible.
1:16:34SPEAKER- It runs one, it runs Sequoia, but not Tahoe, I think,
1:16:37SPEAKERis that, but yeah, I just needed something
1:16:40SPEAKERthat was newer than Ventura, was what I was looking for.
1:16:42SPEAKER- Sure, yeah.
1:16:43SPEAKER- We'll talk about it,
1:16:43SPEAKERI think we'll do a project episode soon
1:16:45SPEAKERthat we can talk about it on.
1:16:46SPEAKER- Yeah, we'll get back to it.
1:16:47SPEAKERMac OS is a good operating system.
1:16:48SPEAKER- It's neat, it's neat.
1:16:50SPEAKER- Somehow it keeps getting swept up
1:16:51SPEAKERin the anti-Windows crusade recently,
1:16:53SPEAKERand for reasons I don't entirely understand,
1:16:55SPEAKERbut we can get to that later.
1:16:57SPEAKER- Well, yeah, I mean, we can talk about that
1:17:00SPEAKERin the Mac, the Apple episode,
1:17:03SPEAKERbut I was surprised by how kind of lightly,
1:17:06SPEAKERit's not as insidified as Windows is,
1:17:08SPEAKERbut it's definitely more insidified than Mac OS was
1:17:10SPEAKERthe last time I messed around with Mac OS.
1:17:12SPEAKER- I'd say lightly so, sure,
1:17:13SPEAKERbut it's not, it's nowhere near as in your face.
1:17:16SPEAKER- It's in your, anyway, I'll make a list.
1:17:19SPEAKER- Yeah, we'll get to it later.
1:17:20SPEAKER- Yeah, that'll do it for us this week, though.
1:17:22SPEAKERIf you have questions,
1:17:23SPEAKERyou can send them to techpod@content.town,
1:17:25SPEAKERor if you're in the Discord,
1:17:26SPEAKERyou can post them in the Questions Seeking Answers channel,
1:17:29SPEAKERand they'll be there for a minute,
1:17:30SPEAKERand then they'll disappear,
1:17:31SPEAKERbut other people will see them in there
1:17:32SPEAKERif they're in there at the exact same time.
1:17:34SPEAKERSo, you know, cake batter's gonna see 'em,
1:17:36SPEAKER'cause cake batter is in that channel a lot.
1:17:38SPEAKER- That's true.
1:17:40SPEAKER- This is a great time for us to remind you
1:17:41SPEAKERthat if you're not in that Discord,
1:17:43SPEAKERyou can get there by going to patreon.com/techpod,
1:17:46SPEAKERwhere for $5 a month, you get access to the Discord,
1:17:48SPEAKERwhich is full of beautiful people
1:17:50SPEAKERwho are into all sorts of amazing, nerdy stuff,
1:17:54SPEAKERand talk about things like the Notepad++ breach, honestly.
1:17:59SPEAKERWe had some fascinating conversations about that
1:18:01SPEAKERthat I hadn't really considered, among other things.
1:18:04SPEAKERWe also had what I would describe
1:18:07SPEAKERas a surprisingly measured and reasonable conversation
1:18:12SPEAKERabout the challenges of people like us talking about AI
1:18:17SPEAKERand the feedback for last week's episode,
1:18:18SPEAKERwhich was really helpful,
1:18:20SPEAKER'cause understanding and distribution of that
1:18:24SPEAKERas a technology is fraught,
1:18:26SPEAKERboth from an ethics perspective for a lot of folks,
1:18:29SPEAKERbut also the way somebody like you or I,
1:18:33SPEAKERwho are kind of shade tree Python programmers at best,
1:18:37SPEAKERare gonna have a different experience with that
1:18:39SPEAKERthan somebody who's writing code
1:18:40SPEAKERthat ships for hundreds of millions of people to use.
1:18:42SPEAKERSo it was very helpful.
1:18:47SPEAKER- Yeah, I have not.
1:18:47SPEAKERI've been a bit ill this week, I'll say.
1:18:50SPEAKERI have not had a chance to look at all that stuff yet,
1:18:52SPEAKERbut I need to catch up on it.
1:18:53SPEAKER- It was a good conversation.
1:18:55SPEAKERBut yeah, you can go to patreon.com/checkpod
1:18:57SPEAKERand get access to all of that.
1:18:59SPEAKERThis is the part of the show where we thank our patrons,
1:19:01SPEAKERso thank you, patrons.
1:19:02SPEAKER- Thank you, patrons.
1:19:03SPEAKER- We are listener-supported,
1:19:04SPEAKERso without you, patrons, we wouldn't be here,
1:19:06SPEAKERand we appreciate each and every one of you.
1:19:08SPEAKERBut we wanna give an extra special thank you
1:19:10SPEAKERto our executive producer tier patrons,
1:19:12SPEAKERincluding Jason Lee, OpenAI Delenda Est,
1:19:16SPEAKERwhich is very funny, Andrew Slosky, Jordan Lippitt,
1:19:20SPEAKERHesitation Fiends, David Allen, James Kamik,
1:19:23SPEAKERand Pantheon, makers of the HS3 high-speed 3D printer.
1:19:27SPEAKERThank you all so, so much.
1:19:28SPEAKERWe appreciate each and every one of you.
1:19:30SPEAKER- Yes, we do.
1:19:30SPEAKER- And that will do it for us this week.
1:19:32SPEAKERWe'll be back next week with another edition of the Tech Pod.
1:19:35SPEAKERAs always, please consider the environment
1:19:37SPEAKERbefore printing this podcast.