00:00SPEAKERHey, remember when there was a lower bound on multiplayer game player counts and it was
00:04SPEAKERfour people?
00:05SPEAKERYou mean like Duke Nukem or like Left 4 Dead?
00:09SPEAKERWell, I mean, original Doom multiplayer was four players, right?
00:12SPEAKERI think only for Modem or Dwango or whatever.
00:16SPEAKERWell, you know what?
00:17SPEAKERNo, you're right.
00:18SPEAKERIt might've been four players in the land too.
00:19SPEAKERWell, I never, I only played Modem.
00:20SPEAKERI can't say for sure, but you know, four players, good even number of people to include in your
00:26SPEAKERmultiplayer game.
00:27SPEAKERYeah.
00:28SPEAKERLike for the first time in my life, I successfully transitioned a group of people that I play
00:31SPEAKERgames with from one game to another game because basically stopped playing PUBG and started
00:37SPEAKERplaying Fortnite.
00:38SPEAKERAnd every other time I've done that, like when, when my EverQuest Guild went from EverQuest
00:42SPEAKERto wow, like 40% of the people just kept playing EverQuest forever.
00:46SPEAKERRight.
00:47SPEAKERAnd then it all kind of like, it falls apart and you reshuffle and you end up with some
00:50SPEAKERof the same people and some new people and good old little community schism.
00:53SPEAKERYeah.
00:54SPEAKERFortress, Halo 2, Quake World, Quake 3, all of this, this has happened multiple times
00:59SPEAKERin my life.
01:00SPEAKERHey, you know what?
01:01SPEAKERAll those games have in common.
01:02SPEAKERThey all accommodate four or more players.
01:05SPEAKERThat's true.
01:06SPEAKERWhat is up with this trend lately of multiplayer games capping at three people?
01:11SPEAKERThree people makes a lot of things easier in terms of matchmaking.
01:14SPEAKERSo when we talked a few months ago about match or like a year ago now, I guess about matchmaking
01:18SPEAKERalgorithms and why it's complicated and hard.
01:21SPEAKERIt wasn't that like two months ago.
01:23SPEAKERI don't know, it's like indeterminable period of time in the past, but three people, well,
01:30SPEAKERso first off with four people, four people's bad for like harassment and vote stuff.
01:39SPEAKERSo you can't, you can't really do like vote to get rid of somebody who's being an asshole
01:45SPEAKERin a four player game because you can't get a majority basically.
01:50SPEAKERIt's really like most of the States end up in a draw.
01:53SPEAKERLike if it's two people and one person's being a jerk, two groups of two people and one person's
01:57SPEAKERbeing a jerk on one team, then the other person's not going to vote to kick them.
02:02SPEAKERAnd the person who initiated the vote is always a vote for kicking and the person who's threatening
02:05SPEAKERto be kicked is always a vote against kicking.
02:08SPEAKERSo you end up with like a bad last episode of a reality show situation where the other
02:13SPEAKERtwo people, if they don't agree, nothing happens.
02:18SPEAKERSo three players solves that problem because then you just need, you have the kicker and
02:23SPEAKERthe kicky and the other person has to decide, Oh, this person's an asshole or this person's
02:26SPEAKERnot an asshole.
02:27SPEAKERIt solves that problem.
02:28SPEAKERYeah.
02:29SPEAKERWell, you know, you're seeing it even in like in like PVE games, like run the two captive
02:33SPEAKERthree like space burning two just came out.
02:35SPEAKERThat's three players.
02:36SPEAKERI mean, should we just blame destiny for this?
02:39SPEAKERI assure you there's still malicious actors in, in, in co-op PVP, PVP and PVP games.
02:46SPEAKERBut yeah, it started with destiny.
02:48SPEAKERDestiny did the math.
02:49SPEAKERAnd, and the other thing about it is the matchmaking algorithms are a lot easier because you can
02:53SPEAKERmatch singles with like the most common like people like types of groups in in, in matchmaking
03:02SPEAKERcues are almost always duos and singles.
03:05SPEAKERThat makes sense.
03:06SPEAKERSo if you can pair them up and you get those cohorts together, then it makes the rest of
03:09SPEAKERit a lot easier.
03:10SPEAKERSo anyway, but yeah, I, I'm, I'm fine blaming destiny on this too.
03:14SPEAKEROkay.
03:15SPEAKERAs you find, it's a safe bet to blame destiny for most things.
03:18SPEAKERBut like destiny apex, um, all of the Warhammer co-op stuff is three player.
03:23SPEAKERI think.
03:24SPEAKERYeah.
03:25SPEAKERIt's just, you know, it's just rough.
03:26SPEAKERIf you've got a gaming group of four people, let's say look, this is when you got to stack
03:29SPEAKERwreck your friends and you get to decide, uh, who is this, who is, who is number four, right?
03:33SPEAKERLike the last time this came up, I thankfully was just kind of busy dark and dark and darker
03:38SPEAKERwas the last time this came up with people I play games with.
03:41SPEAKERYeah.
03:42SPEAKERThat's, that's another three player.
03:43SPEAKERThat one seems like it could expand to four though.
03:45SPEAKERYeah, maybe.
03:46SPEAKERMaybe.
03:47SPEAKERSo I was just like, ah, I've got stuff to do tonight.
03:48SPEAKERI'm probably not going to make it anyway.
03:49SPEAKERYou guys have fun.
03:50SPEAKERAs somebody with a type four often on, if we want to play a three player game, one of
03:55SPEAKERus will sit in discord and kind of hang out while the other person, while somebody else
03:58SPEAKERis streaming to them.
04:00SPEAKERSure.
04:01SPEAKERWhich is, uh, you know, this is the world we live in.
04:02SPEAKERPeople just hang out and watch people play games now.
04:05SPEAKERAll life through the internet.
04:26SPEAKERWelcome to Brad and Will made a tech pod.
04:38SPEAKERI'm Will.
04:39SPEAKERI'm Brad.
04:40SPEAKERBrad.
04:41SPEAKERI'm sitting here.
04:42SPEAKERI'm looking at this Fuser update and I don't know what to think.
04:45SPEAKERLike Fuser for people who don't know has found a real second life in Fortnite.
04:49SPEAKERWait, Fuser has, I mean, obviously harmonics got bought by Epic and they are doing like
04:54SPEAKERrock band style stuff in Fortnite, but how does Fuser tie in?
04:58SPEAKERLook, I'm not going to try to cook the books here, but I'm going to say that next lander,
05:02SPEAKERnext time there's a next lander, uh, uh, patrons choose thing, everybody should vote for Fortnite
05:09SPEAKERbecause when you're having a Fortnite battle royale game right now, you can hit your remote
05:15SPEAKERbutton and choose to just say, drop the baseline from I'm just a girl.
05:19SPEAKEROh, there's like, like an individual stims that you can use?
05:23SPEAKERFuser asks Fuser and, and you can do so it doesn't have the thing where it like gives
05:28SPEAKERyou the indicator of where the beats and the drop-ins and all that stuff are, but it does
05:32SPEAKERlet you pitch shift and, uh, and tempo shift and you can, and you can do like four baselines.
05:39SPEAKERYou can do four vocal lines or you can do four separate baselines for like, like four
05:44SPEAKERpeople.
05:45SPEAKEREach person can bring their own baseline.
05:46SPEAKEROh, I see.
05:47SPEAKERI see.
05:48SPEAKERAnd yeah, so it's, and it's just the song, like it's the songs that you've bought to
05:53SPEAKERget access to in their rock band mode, like their standalone rock band mode.
05:58SPEAKERYou also get the jam track stims for that.
06:01SPEAKERSo you can make, like we've made really kind of good mashups.
06:05SPEAKERYou can also do absolute music crimes, like horrible, horrible stuff.
06:08SPEAKEROf course, man, that's devious that I did the, to make, to make the, to make the songs
06:13SPEAKERthey're selling for the rock band stuff.
06:15SPEAKERAnd again, we're just using rock band as shorthand here.
06:17SPEAKERThey don't call it rock band, but you know, what, what is it Fortnite festival, right?
06:21SPEAKERBut like to make those also sort of cosmetic, emote type objects of desire at the same time.
06:28SPEAKERSo now people are buying songs that don't even care about Fortnite festival just so
06:31SPEAKERthey can drop the bass in their actual Fortnite.
06:33SPEAKERThat's it's insidious.
06:35SPEAKERI haven't played Fortnite festival in a month, but I bought two songs the other day specifically
06:40SPEAKERfor trolling purposes.
06:42SPEAKERSo that's a noble use of funds, but weird.
06:46SPEAKERThey're updating actual fuser and steam.
06:47SPEAKERWhat is that about?
06:48SPEAKERI wonder.
06:49SPEAKERI have no, it looks, I don't know.
06:50SPEAKERIt's not a fuser update in ages.
06:52SPEAKERSo we'll see.
06:53SPEAKERMy knee jerk response or guess there is they're probably patching stuff out cause some licenses
06:57SPEAKERexpired.
06:58SPEAKERThat was, that was my assumption too, but you can't buy new songs.
07:01SPEAKERSo presumably anything that you have, you have access to.
07:04SPEAKERYeah.
07:05SPEAKERSure.
07:06SPEAKERI don't know.
07:07SPEAKERWell, I'll see, I'll see.
07:08SPEAKERI'll hit the button after this.
07:09SPEAKERI'll report back.
07:10SPEAKERYeah.
07:11SPEAKEROkay.
07:12SPEAKERYou did the fun thing of, of downloading a whole ass game.
07:13SPEAKERA big one.
07:14SPEAKERI think it was space Marine two, right?
07:16SPEAKERA satisfactory.
07:17SPEAKERIt was a satisfactory.
07:18SPEAKERThat's right.
07:19SPEAKERAnd then as we were starting this, you started a big download and I became robotic, right?
07:23SPEAKERYeah, you did.
07:24SPEAKERAnd now it's funny.
07:25SPEAKERIt says it was, it was like, this is going to take a minute and now it's like, yo, this
07:28SPEAKERis going to take a day.
07:29SPEAKERI don't know.
07:30SPEAKERI think it's the installation is, is taking a minute podcasting, remote podcasting while
07:35SPEAKERdownloading a giant game is risky business.
07:37SPEAKERWell, I throttled it so that we're, so we're safe.
07:42SPEAKERWe're not latent here.
07:43SPEAKERNo, we're not latent.
07:44SPEAKERWe're not, I'm not, I'm not gonna look, I'm not going to Jack up the pod to download satisfactory
07:48SPEAKERtoo.
07:49SPEAKERUh, but what I am going to do is talk about the biggest new hardware week we've seen in
07:56SPEAKERa minute.
07:57SPEAKERI mean, I guess we had some CPU announcements a bit ago, big week for new hardware announcements.
08:01SPEAKERYeah.
08:02SPEAKERBig Apple had an event.
08:03SPEAKERSony Mark Cerny took a stage kind of, kind of, not like last time.
08:08SPEAKEROh really?
08:09SPEAKERI didn't, I didn't watch that.
08:10SPEAKERWe'll talk about it.
08:11SPEAKEROh, which one are we doing first?
08:12SPEAKERI don't know.
08:13SPEAKERYou want to do it with, you want to do a PlayStation first?
08:14SPEAKERCause I feel like there's more to say there or there's, there's, there's more interesting
08:18SPEAKERstuff to talk about there.
08:19SPEAKERCause the Apple stuff.
08:20SPEAKERThe Apple stuff was meh.
08:21SPEAKERYeah, it was fine, but it was kind of what you expected, I guess.
08:25SPEAKEREverything is slightly better.
08:26SPEAKERLike, okay.
08:27SPEAKERSo the TLDR on the Apple event is that the iPhone 16 seems like maybe it's really good
08:31SPEAKERthis year and the Apple, the iPhone 16 pro seems fine.
08:37SPEAKERInteresting.
08:38SPEAKEROh, okay.
08:39SPEAKERThat's, that's something I would like to hear more about.
08:40SPEAKERLook, the watch 10 is real thin and it's shiny black, which I like.
08:45SPEAKERUh, the watch ultra two is the same as last year's watch ultra two, but with an updated
08:50SPEAKERcolor.
08:51SPEAKERHang on.
08:52SPEAKERYou're just burning material now.
08:53SPEAKERLook, I'm going through, I'm just giving everybody what they need to know.
08:55SPEAKERNo, it's fine.
08:56SPEAKERIt was a fine.
08:57SPEAKERIt was.
08:58SPEAKERYeah.
08:59SPEAKERYeah.
09:00SPEAKERWell, we'll talk about it.
09:01SPEAKERLet's talk about PlayStation.
09:02SPEAKERI'm curious.
09:03SPEAKERI know nothing about this other than it costs $700 and I think Patrick Klepek decided, described
09:06SPEAKERit as they could have charged whatever they wanted to soak the users who will pay for
09:10SPEAKERthis.
09:11SPEAKERThat's probably true.
09:12SPEAKERWell, I mean there's, there's a limit to everything, but yes, that's probably true.
09:15SPEAKERThey probably could have jacked it to $800 and the people that are going to buy it at
09:18SPEAKER700 would still pay eight.
09:19SPEAKERIf I had to guess.
09:20SPEAKERThere's a curve where the price people are willing to pay and the number of people willing
09:24SPEAKERto price pay that price intersect and the way they chose the price for this, I'm sure
09:30SPEAKERis looking at where those lines intersect and it's the most money for Sony.
09:33SPEAKERYes, for sure.
09:34SPEAKERUm, all right.
09:35SPEAKERPlayStation five pro after months of rumors, like nothing stays secret anymore.
09:40SPEAKERWe we've had PlayStation five pro rumors since you couldn't buy a PlayStation five still.
09:45SPEAKERYeah.
09:46SPEAKERI mean we've basically known this thing was real because like developer documents have
09:50SPEAKERbeen in the hands of media for six months, you know, like they're like, Hey, we have
09:53SPEAKERseen, we have seen developer documentation for this and listen, unless somebody has fabricated
09:57SPEAKERall of that, this is a hundred percent real.
10:00SPEAKERBut the specificity with which the rumors nailed exactly what this thing is, is kind
10:03SPEAKERof crazy.
10:04SPEAKERLike it's exactly what the rumors said down to what's in the GPU, like everything.
10:08SPEAKERSo nothing really surprising here, uh, if you keep kept up with the rumors except for
10:12SPEAKERthe price.
10:13SPEAKERUm, but yeah, so they, they did a Mark Cerny presentation.
10:17SPEAKERTechnical presentation is how they described it, but it was a far cry from the PS five
10:20SPEAKERlaunch presentation.
10:21SPEAKERDo you remember that one?
10:22SPEAKERThat's the one where they had like the pictures, they had the video of Spiderman swinging through
10:26SPEAKERManhattan with no loads and showed how like that speed limited was limited by the hard
10:31SPEAKERdrive performance in the PS four and all that stuff.
10:33SPEAKERYes.
10:34SPEAKERThat's the one where he spent a significant amount of time talking about HRTFs and 3d
10:38SPEAKERmodeling your ears.
10:39SPEAKERYep.
10:40SPEAKERBut, but the, the, the key thing there is that that was him kind of live.
10:42SPEAKERI mean, it may have been prerecorded, but it was just sort of a live shot of him at
10:46SPEAKERa podium going through a presentation for an hour.
10:49SPEAKERYeah.
10:50SPEAKERAnd I kind of expected something similar here, but this is a much more, it was a nine minute
10:53SPEAKERvideo.
10:54SPEAKERIt was very like marketing polished, uh, much more of a manicured kind of presentation.
10:59SPEAKERWere there visual effects?
11:00SPEAKERYeah, kinda.
11:01SPEAKERAnd it was, it was pretty matter of fact, it was just much more condensed and not, it
11:05SPEAKERdidn't go into as much detail.
11:06SPEAKERIt wasn't the real nerd shit that we got before.
11:08SPEAKERYes, which I was hoping for, but we did not get a lot of that, but, um, but, but I mean,
11:12SPEAKERthere's plenty of detail here to know what this thing is.
11:14SPEAKERUm, uh, he, he started out, you know, like they, they went through all the innovations
11:18SPEAKERof the PS five fast loading, you know, uh, X, Y, and Z things that they did to make a
11:23SPEAKERgreat console in their, in their minds.
11:25SPEAKERUm, but the, but he said, you know, when, when I talked to developers, the thing they
11:28SPEAKERdo ask for the most is more graphical performance.
11:31SPEAKERAlthough I imagine that's true of every console since the beginning of time.
11:34SPEAKERThat seems right.
11:36SPEAKERBut the thing I did not expect is they got into data and they said that three quarters
11:39SPEAKERof players are picking performance modes on PS five.
11:42SPEAKERAnd that's obviously based on telemetry that they're collecting.
11:45SPEAKERThis is the first kind of broad preference I've seen like from current generation where,
11:51SPEAKERuh, well, like since we started having the performance or quality mode choice about what
11:55SPEAKERpeople are picking, I would guess that people pick quality and I'm shocked by this.
11:59SPEAKERSame.
12:00SPEAKERI also was absolutely shocked by it and it's like kind of invaluable that they shared this
12:03SPEAKERbecause this is normally like proprietary information that, uh, big companies like this
12:07SPEAKERare going to keep to themselves to make decisions based on.
12:09SPEAKERIt makes the case for the hardware, right?
12:12SPEAKERLike it's a little self-serving, but it's a real testament to Nvidia's, Hey, just spending
12:18SPEAKERthe last 20 years talking about how frames win games to sell CPUs GPUs that, that like
12:24SPEAKERconsole players now pick the perf option rather than the, than the make it look shiny.
12:29SPEAKERAnd I care less about sweat than, than getting the extra three frames a second or 30 frames
12:36SPEAKERa second.
12:37SPEAKERYeah.
12:38SPEAKERWhat is this generation sweat sweat?
12:39SPEAKERWhat sweat was the, uh, was the PS three 360 generation effect.
12:44SPEAKERAnd it was puddles on four right on the Xbox X bone, the puddles, I'd say the puddles were
12:50SPEAKERmore an object of derision.
12:52SPEAKERLike what was the, what were the, I don't know, like particles know like it's ray tracing.
12:57SPEAKERIt's gotta be ray tracing.
12:58SPEAKERIt's like shadows and shiny.
12:59SPEAKERRight?
13:00SPEAKERYes.
13:01SPEAKERI guess, I guess it's ray tracing last gen.
13:03SPEAKERIt was light blooms on the, like the original Xbox.
13:05SPEAKERIt was light blooms.
13:06SPEAKERIf you remember.
13:07SPEAKERYeah.
13:08SPEAKERAnd like Xbox, I think the Xbox one and the PS four, it was probably like apps remember?
13:12SPEAKERCause you could plug your cable box into your Xbox.
13:15SPEAKERThat's what, that's what the kids crave.
13:16SPEAKERThat's grim.
13:17SPEAKERYeah.
13:18SPEAKERAnyway.
13:19SPEAKEROkay.
13:20SPEAKERYeah.
13:21SPEAKERSo, so they did say that the, the overwhelming majority of players are picking performance
13:24SPEAKERmodes which I think that that made a lot more sense at the launch of the PS five, but now
13:29SPEAKERlike we are really into the middle period where performance modes are actually starting
13:33SPEAKERto show some severe compromises.
13:35SPEAKERYeah.
13:37SPEAKERLike final fantasy seven rebirth, for example, did you play that on PS five?
13:40SPEAKERNo, I was waiting on PC for that.
13:42SPEAKEROkay.
13:43SPEAKERLike the performance mode in that game is famously blurry.
13:46SPEAKERLike it's extremely, it's one of the blurriest games I have ever seen.
13:49SPEAKERSo on some of the games, they're actually like turning off features, right?
13:53SPEAKERLike they're turning off ray tracing and stuff like that for sure.
13:56SPEAKEROn some of them, they're just scaling down the resolution and then using the upscaler.
13:59SPEAKERYes.
14:00SPEAKERLike star wars outlaws just came out on PS five, like the performance mode in that one,
14:03SPEAKERlike this is extremely sub 10 ADP to hit their target frame rates and still doesn't hit a
14:08SPEAKERsteady 60.
14:10SPEAKERSo we are in the point where developers are just pushing the hardware enough now that
14:13SPEAKERthe performance modes are going to start taking a real hit.
14:16SPEAKERLike I would argue performance modes have outlived their effectiveness on this hardware
14:21SPEAKERbecause this was not something you expected on consoles until now.
14:26SPEAKERRight?
14:27SPEAKERYeah.
14:28SPEAKERLike a perpetual split, a perpetual choice between performance and quality was not something
14:31SPEAKERyou ever expected through the duration of an entire generation until, until we a had
14:36SPEAKERthe half-step consoles last generation, but offered it B then had this kind of like split
14:40SPEAKERgeneration situation where games were coming out on both for three years after launch.
14:45SPEAKERSo they could do that.
14:46SPEAKERThey had extra headroom on games that were designed for previous gen hardware.
14:50SPEAKERBut now, now that we're into the exclusive games to these consoles, like it's, it's kind
14:54SPEAKERof outmoded for there to be performance modes.
14:56SPEAKERLike they really, I feel like should just be designing a single mode.
14:59SPEAKERYeah.
15:00SPEAKERAnd like it's, it's what was the performance plus or whatever.
15:03SPEAKERThe classic example for me is, is that ratchet and clank game that came out with the PS five
15:08SPEAKERand how it had w we look, we got a smooth 30 on the quality mode, or if you do the quality
15:15SPEAKERplus or whatever, I can't remember what it was called, but it was basically 40 Hertz
15:19SPEAKERmode.
15:20SPEAKERI think PSRT, I think was one of the ones that, well, insomniac is a special case though.
15:23SPEAKERCause they have gone so above and beyond on this specific subject.
15:26SPEAKERWell, yeah, but like that actually it worked really well.
15:29SPEAKERLike that's what I want.
15:30SPEAKERI want, I just want 40 Hertz, everything.
15:32SPEAKERYes.
15:33SPEAKERYeah.
15:34SPEAKERI'm with you on that for sure.
15:35SPEAKERLike I I've been playing outlaws at 40 Hertz and it's fantastic.
15:37SPEAKERLike it, it looks, it looks good enough.
15:39SPEAKERI mean, it could, it could look sharper.
15:41SPEAKERLike you have a, I just get that on PS five, dude, you should call it on PC.
15:45SPEAKERI mean, look, there, there is, there is professional value in keeping up with how consoles work
15:49SPEAKERand how they look and what the evolving standards are.
15:52SPEAKERAlso, I like hanging out in the living room with my girlfriend and flopping on the couch
15:55SPEAKERto play a game sometimes.
15:57SPEAKEROkay.
15:58SPEAKEROkay.
15:59SPEAKEROkay.
16:00SPEAKERI still, I still really enjoy the form of the video game console.
16:03SPEAKERLike I really like the, a, the simplicity, b, the, just the whole, the whole like trying
16:08SPEAKERto, I started to use the term walled garden, that sounds a little pejorative.
16:11SPEAKERWhat's the term I'm looking for?
16:12SPEAKERFor just this kind of closed ecosystem, you know, like I like.
16:14SPEAKERIt's a curated experience.
16:15SPEAKERYes.
16:16SPEAKERIt's curated.
16:17SPEAKERAnd these consoles are an exercise in interface design across a bunch of different domains.
16:21SPEAKERLike I just like the idea of the integrated box that is made to play games and all the,
16:26SPEAKERall the things that go into that.
16:27SPEAKERI get it.
16:28SPEAKERI get it.
16:29SPEAKERAnyway.
16:30SPEAKERAll right.
16:31SPEAKEROkay.
16:32SPEAKERSo what is this thing, Brad?
16:33SPEAKERI'll, I'll just tell you what specs they have given here, which are quite fuzzy.
16:36SPEAKERThis has been off of the PlayStation blog posts that Sony is not the type to come out with
16:39SPEAKERthe like raw.
16:40SPEAKERThey didn't give us the flops.
16:42SPEAKERYeah.
16:43SPEAKERRaw metrics on, on exactly what's in their new GPU.
16:45SPEAKERDoes it have a neural AI processing in the new, in the new, in their new chip and their
16:50SPEAKERnew SOC?
16:51SPEAKERIt must, but they didn't say what kind, and that's actually one of the questions I have
16:54SPEAKERabout this thing.
16:55SPEAKEROkay.
16:56SPEAKERThey say upgraded GPU, which means 67% more compute units than the base PS5 GPU.
17:02SPEAKERI think compute units is an AMD term, right?
17:04SPEAKERYeah.
17:05SPEAKERThat's yeah.
17:06SPEAKERIt's basically they're shader cores.
17:07SPEAKERRight.
17:08SPEAKERWhat does, what does Nvidia call them these days?
17:09SPEAKERHas that just been subsumed into CUDA cores?
17:11SPEAKERCUDA cores, they call them, CUDA is more general, general purpose computing, right?
17:15SPEAKERYeah.
17:16SPEAKERCUDA is the, is the, is the, I actually don't know what they call them these days.
17:20SPEAKERI think I always just call everything shader cores because that's what they are.
17:23SPEAKERYeah.
17:24SPEAKERI think that's probably the way to, didn't they, I think Nvidia used the term stream
17:26SPEAKERprocessors years and years ago.
17:28SPEAKERStream processors might be what they still call them.
17:30SPEAKERI can't remember.
17:31SPEAKERIt's been so long since we had an Nvidia GPU launch.
17:34SPEAKERI've forgotten all of their internal lingo.
17:36SPEAKERYes.
17:37SPEAKERAt any rate, they say 67% more compute units on this GPU.
17:40SPEAKERThe word on the street is that it's 60 compute units versus 36 in the base PS five GPU.
17:45SPEAKEROkay.
17:46SPEAKERSo that's, that's better fill rate on shader limited stuff.
17:49SPEAKERThat's good.
17:50SPEAKERYes.
17:51SPEAKERYes.
17:52SPEAKERAnd 28% faster memory as well.
17:53SPEAKERThat would be the unified system and graphics memory, right?
17:55SPEAKERBecause it's all for, I think I don't, I don't remember, I'd have to look that up early for
18:00SPEAKERfive.
18:01SPEAKERIt must be DDR.
18:02SPEAKERYeah.
18:03SPEAKERIt must be DDR four.
18:04SPEAKERAt any rate, like that's what I mean when I say these specs are fuzzy, they give percentages
18:08SPEAKERand then they say, overall, this enables up to 45% faster rendering.
18:12SPEAKERI mean, that, that sounds, that sounds like that's a, that sounds like a, Hey, we took,
18:18SPEAKERwe went from an RDNA two to RDNA three or whatever version of the APU.
18:22SPEAKERI know they do their own custom APUs, but they're, I'm sure they're based on the same
18:26SPEAKERcore archetypes.
18:27SPEAKERWell, that's the thing.
18:28SPEAKERAnd it's, that's why it's hard to nail some of the stuff down.
18:30SPEAKERLike if you Google around, some of the rumors say that there are some RDNA four features
18:34SPEAKERin this GPU, but it's hard to say because obviously Sony and AMD are not talking.
18:39SPEAKERThey say, they say advanced ray tracing we've added more powerful ray tracing allows rays
18:44SPEAKERto be cast at double and at times, triple the speeds of the current PS five.
18:48SPEAKERLike that also sounds like something I'm sure that has trickled down from newer AMD hardware
18:52SPEAKERbecause obviously AMD is making a bigger ray tracing push on PC.
18:56SPEAKEROh, the PlayStation five also has 16 gigabytes of DDR 16 gigabytes, rather of GDDR six.
19:04SPEAKERAnd the DDR four is just uses SSD controller cache.
19:08SPEAKERSo it's what, how they do the high it's how they did the high speed stuff before the SSDs
19:12SPEAKERwere fast enough.
19:13SPEAKERThat's right.
19:14SPEAKERI think they've, they've been doing GDDR memory since the PS four, I think for system memory.
19:18SPEAKERI'm glad I checked.
19:19SPEAKERThat didn't sound right.
19:20SPEAKERYes.
19:21SPEAKERAnd then lastly, and this was, this is the big one in my mind, and it's one of the things
19:24SPEAKERthe rumors were pointing out heavily is that they've got their own DLSS equivalent now.
19:29SPEAKERI mean, upscaling, like, honestly, if you want to look at the technology that is the
19:33SPEAKERmost important thing right now on PCs, it's upscaling.
19:36SPEAKERAbsolutely.
19:37SPEAKERLike it's the way of the future.
19:38SPEAKERAll consoles, all video games are going to be using this like the switch to, we expect
19:42SPEAKERalso is going to utilize some form of this.
19:45SPEAKERLike it's just, it's basically free resolution.
19:47SPEAKERLike the upsampling techniques have gotten so good that it's essentially free resolution
19:51SPEAKERfor lower resolution performance.
19:53SPEAKERIt's funny because you say that and I played, I can't remember what I played.
19:56SPEAKERI played something the other day and it had an arm that was ghost arming from the AI upscaling
20:02SPEAKERpretty consistently.
20:03SPEAKERIt might've been, it might've actually been outlaws.
20:05SPEAKEROkay.
20:06SPEAKERIt's not perfect.
20:07SPEAKERI mean, we should say it's not perfect.
20:08SPEAKERLike digital foundry has done plenty of like very intensive breakdowns of here's the difference
20:12SPEAKERbetween native and upscaled and you can see, you know, and the algorithms are, are better
20:16SPEAKERand better.
20:17SPEAKERI don't know if it's still the case, but they would point to like, Oh, you know, this has
20:18SPEAKERtrouble with like fences, like certain types of specific high frequency detail don't get
20:23SPEAKERrecreated very well, but by and large, it's, it's good.
20:27SPEAKERIt's good.
20:28SPEAKERI started to say good enough, but even that sounds like it's selling it short.
20:31SPEAKERIt's almost in most cases, it's basically indistinguishable.
20:35SPEAKERTypically the errors that it creates are not distinguishable at 60 plus frames a second.
20:39SPEAKERYeah.
20:40SPEAKERSo like it's the kind of stuff you see in a screenshot, but not when you're actually
20:43SPEAKERwatching the video of the game.
20:45SPEAKERAnd if you're talking about like streaming onto Twitch or something like that, where
20:48SPEAKERthey're then munging up the video, the video compression, even more it's, you're never
20:54SPEAKERgoing to notice.
20:55SPEAKERSo, yeah.
20:56SPEAKERI mean, this sounds good, honestly, the fact that they didn't have some AI driven upscaling
21:01SPEAKERon the PS five was the thing that the stock PS five was the thing that made me wonder
21:06SPEAKERabout the longevity of that hardware, given where the rest of the industry is going.
21:11SPEAKERI mean, I think both of the consoles, the two consoles were just kind of unfortunately
21:15SPEAKERplanned, right?
21:16SPEAKERBecause they both landed kind of right before both ray tracing and AI upscaling became standard.
21:22SPEAKERI think they, I think the ray tracing was starting to take off cause like, like they
21:26SPEAKERboth were post control, I think.
21:28SPEAKERWell, it was, I mean the 2080 or the 20 series Turing, it was Turing, right?
21:34SPEAKERThat sounds right.
21:35SPEAKERYeah.
21:36SPEAKERJust the 20 series.
21:37SPEAKERYes.
21:38SPEAKERThe 20 series came out before these consoles, but you know, obviously these specs are locked
21:41SPEAKERway in advance.
21:42SPEAKERYeah.
21:43SPEAKERYears in advance.
21:44SPEAKERThese consoles trickled down from earlier hardware.
21:46SPEAKERBut yeah, like they, like, like you said, these consoles hit at exactly the wrong time
21:51SPEAKERto adopt like two technologies that are becoming like de facto for video game development.
21:56SPEAKERWell, and at the time the first version of DLSS, which is the only thing out at the time
22:00SPEAKERthis hardware, like the only time this hardware would have been in development, wasn't very
22:06SPEAKERgood.
22:07SPEAKERIt was, it was game specific and had a whole host of problems when they got to DLSS too,
22:12SPEAKERit became a, Oh God, everybody's going to be doing this kind of feature.
22:15SPEAKERSo like it's, it's taken years for this to mature and get to the point that it's at now
22:19SPEAKERwhere it's essentially essential.
22:20SPEAKERIt's essentially essential.
22:21SPEAKERWell, especially for the ray tracing stuff because it lets you render at a much lower
22:25SPEAKERresolution and then scale up anyway.
22:26SPEAKERRight.
22:27SPEAKERLike if you look at the PS4 pro that came out, like they, they were doing similar stuff
22:31SPEAKERthere.
22:32SPEAKERThey just didn't have the benefit of machine learning there.
22:33SPEAKERIf you remember, they were using like a checkerboard rendering technique to boost, to boost up sampling
22:37SPEAKERthen, which was effective enough.
22:39SPEAKERWell, FSR one actually wasn't very good.
22:42SPEAKERWell, this was prior to that, this was a Sony internal, the checkerboard stuff was an internal
22:46SPEAKERSony technology.
22:47SPEAKERWell, but I'm saying looking at the GPU that they had in the PS5, what they would have
22:51SPEAKERhad access to would have been FSR one level up sampling, which wouldn't, wouldn't do what
22:57SPEAKERthey want.
22:58SPEAKERYes.
22:59SPEAKERSo they have been using AMD FSR on the current consoles, but yes, that's, that's not machine
23:03SPEAKERlearning driven.
23:04SPEAKERIt just runs as shader programs, I believe.
23:05SPEAKERAnd it's just not anywhere near as effective.
23:07SPEAKERWell, and it eats perf from your shader course too.
23:10SPEAKERSo you're like, it's the difference between DLSS and that is the DLSS runs on the CUDA
23:14SPEAKERcores where you're not pulling perf from the, from the rendering, the video game part of
23:20SPEAKERthe GPU.
23:21SPEAKERRight.
23:22SPEAKERRight.
23:23SPEAKERSo, so yeah, like they're calling it PlayStation spectral super resolution, which I have to
23:26SPEAKERassume they went for a four letter acronym that kind of sounded like it even has two
23:30SPEAKERS's in it.
23:31SPEAKERPSSR sounds like it may be communist built though.
23:34SPEAKEROh yeah.
23:35SPEAKEROr it's a real pisser.
23:36SPEAKERYeah.
23:37SPEAKERYeah.
23:38SPEAKERSo it's kind of like the Soviet sort of vibe to that.
23:41SPEAKERI mean, Intel's got the XESS, right?
23:44SPEAKEREverybody's using, granted, you know, super sampling, there are a lot of S terms in, in
23:49SPEAKERthis field.
23:50SPEAKERI just think it's funny.
23:51SPEAKEREverybody I think is like kind of quietly trying to ape the Nvidia marketing with their
23:54SPEAKERown acronyms.
23:55SPEAKERDo they talk about, do you talk about vector stuff at all or like are they doing that?
23:59SPEAKERNo, no, no.
24:00SPEAKERThis was, so that is exactly the kind of detail that they did not get into at all on this
24:04SPEAKERthing.
24:05SPEAKEROkay.
24:06SPEAKERSo with that said, this stuff is going to be very easy to implement for developers,
24:09SPEAKERwhich is not surprising.
24:10SPEAKERIt should be, yeah.
24:11SPEAKERYou know, like Nvidia stuff like DLSS is like a day or two of work at this point, right?
24:15SPEAKERFor the common engines.
24:17SPEAKERThe DLSS and FSR plugins often are easier to implement in the engine if you're using
24:22SPEAKERUnreal or Unity than they are to like add the new hooks into the UI to turn them on
24:27SPEAKERand off.
24:28SPEAKERRight.
24:29SPEAKERSo it sounds like I would expect a lot of games are going to get support for this.
24:33SPEAKERBut the, the, the broad pitch that he made in that video, and this is of course subject
24:37SPEAKERto a million variables, but the broad pitch is, hey, we've had fidelity and quality modes
24:43SPEAKERand you've had to pick between performance.
24:45SPEAKERWhat if we could basically deliver more or less close to fidelity visuals at performance
24:50SPEAKERframe rates is what they're saying.
24:53SPEAKERSo is that going to apply to all the old games that have fidelity and performance modes or
24:56SPEAKERare they going to still be locked at the old frame rates like they, like they were?
25:00SPEAKERSo that's just like the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One X.
25:03SPEAKERIt's entirely at the developer's discretion, but they'll have to go back and manually add
25:07SPEAKERsupport for that.
25:08SPEAKERWell, this is where it gets very fuzzy.
25:10SPEAKERThis is where it gets very fuzzy because just like with the PS4 Pro, there's going to be
25:13SPEAKERa similar like a game boost, I forget what they call it, PS5 boost or there's a name
25:17SPEAKERfor it where, you know, things are slightly faster on this console.
25:21SPEAKERSo games that had unlocked frame rates, for example, in the past may just run at higher
25:24SPEAKERframe rates because they have more headroom.
25:26SPEAKERLike for example, games that are explicitly capped at 30 with no support for any of this
25:30SPEAKERstuff will just continue to run like they always have.
25:33SPEAKERSo I had a PS4 Pro, it's the first time I ever bought one of those mid-season replacement
25:37SPEAKERconsoles.
25:38SPEAKERAnd it was actually a pretty good experience because of that, because it meant that my
25:41SPEAKERolder games were, I was actually getting the better perf in without the game having to
25:46SPEAKERlike be updated or whatever.
25:48SPEAKERYeah.
25:49SPEAKERAnd that's carried over to the PS5, for example.
25:50SPEAKERI just downloaded Dark Souls 3 the other day and I was going to mess with it after this
25:53SPEAKERnews because that game had an unlocked frame rate on the PS4.
25:57SPEAKEROh, wow.
25:58SPEAKERAnd so apparently now it just runs at a solid 60 on a PS5 because of that.
26:02SPEAKEROkay.
26:03SPEAKERWhich is cool.
26:04SPEAKERSo it's that same thing again.
26:05SPEAKERBut sorry, I forgot to put the list of games that will be supported at launch in here or
26:09SPEAKERactually they haven't even said at launch, they just said some of the games getting support,
26:14SPEAKERexplicit support for this are, and I'll list them now, Alan Wake 2, Assassin's Creed Shadows,
26:19SPEAKERwhich is not out.
26:20SPEAKERI think AC Shadows is the only unreleased game on this entire list.
26:24SPEAKERAlan Wake 2, AC Shadows, Demon's Souls, Dragon's Dogma 2, Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth, Gran Turismo
26:30SPEAKER7, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Forbidden West, Marvel Spider-Man 2, Ratchet and Clank Rift
26:35SPEAKERApart, The Crew Motorfest, The First Descendant, The Last of Us Part II Remastered.
26:40SPEAKERSo it's a lot of first party stuff in like three Ubisoft games.
26:43SPEAKERYes, that's basically it.
26:45SPEAKERAnd it's a lot of games that are anywhere from one to, well, the oldest game on here
26:49SPEAKERis three years old.
26:51SPEAKERI mean, like when they add stuff like this to something, to some enormous open world
26:56SPEAKERgame, where there's always some more shit to do, I kind of don't mind.
27:01SPEAKERBut yeah, it feels like it's a bummer that they have to add support manually for the
27:07SPEAKERPSSR stuff because if they had built that into the APIs ages ago, that would have been
27:14SPEAKERconvenient.
27:15SPEAKERYeah.
27:16SPEAKERWell, they probably didn't know what this was going to be at that time.
27:18SPEAKERThat's true.
27:19SPEAKERWith enough details to actually plan for it that way.
27:23SPEAKERWhere are they training this stuff?
27:24SPEAKERBecause unlike everybody else, they probably don't have an, like Microsoft and Nvidia both
27:29SPEAKERhave big AI training data centers set up.
27:33SPEAKERI assume they're paying somewhere to train the PSSR upscaling algorithm, which is an
27:40SPEAKERinteresting question.
27:41SPEAKERAnyway.
27:42SPEAKERYeah.
27:43SPEAKERAnd related to that question, I'm also curious, do they implement their own machine learning
27:47SPEAKERhardware on here or this surely, surely this is something AMD has provided right?
27:51SPEAKERThis is the AMD stuff.
27:52SPEAKERYeah.
27:53SPEAKEROkay.
27:54SPEAKERThere's no, AMD I think has been ramping up pretty rapidly on machine learning after the
27:57SPEAKERXilinx acquisition.
27:58SPEAKERWell, and I think they're, I think the basic strategy with these APUs has been for the
28:03SPEAKERlast three generations now to take the, basically they take it, they, they start building on
28:10SPEAKERan older CPU core and then forward port the later GPU cores into the, into the thing and
28:18SPEAKERthen stack the configuration so that it has way more of whatever it is they're thinking
28:24SPEAKERis going to be important, whether it's shader cores or, or ray tracing acceleration or what.
28:30SPEAKERRight.
28:31SPEAKERActually.
28:32SPEAKERYeah.
28:33SPEAKERI think thinking back to the last like year of CPU announcements, I don't think I even
28:34SPEAKERneeded to ask that question.
28:35SPEAKERCause you know, like Intel's got their NPUs and their new CPUs that we've talked about
28:38SPEAKERand AMD obviously doing the same stuff.
28:39SPEAKERSo I'm, I'm sure that hardware is coming straight from AMD, but like, yeah, your, your question
28:43SPEAKERabout how they're training this, who's doing the backend work to make all this go is, is
28:47SPEAKERinteresting.
28:48SPEAKERAnd I have no idea.
28:49SPEAKERWell, cause that, I mean, that has a real impact on how it works with the limited number
28:53SPEAKERof games and without there being an infinite number of games that could implement this
28:57SPEAKERwithout them knowing about it, it makes the training a little bit easier, I guess.
29:01SPEAKERYeah.
29:02SPEAKERThey, they, they did not.
29:03SPEAKERSo they're, you know, not a lot of games on this list that support it.
29:05SPEAKERAnd they also did not provide a ton of very tangible visual evidence of what it does because
29:11SPEAKERthis was a 10 ADP YouTube stream.
29:13SPEAKERIt makes sense.
29:14SPEAKERThey've now put it out in 4k on YouTube so you can get some slightly better sense of
29:19SPEAKERthings.
29:20SPEAKERAnd I guess I lost my Sony press center login a long time ago, but I think they've, they
29:24SPEAKERput out some like very nice high res screenshots and videos that some media sites have looked
29:30SPEAKERat.
29:31SPEAKERAnd I definitely see it, you know, in side by sides, like obviously it's, it is absolutely
29:35SPEAKERsharper.
29:36SPEAKERLike how, how well this compares to something like DLSS remains to be seen until this thing
29:41SPEAKERis out and people do some severe tests on how well this holds up.
29:44SPEAKERI wonder if they, I wonder if, cause PS4 is a, PS5 is a Zen 4, sorry, Zen 2 base.
29:51SPEAKERYeah, Zen 2.
29:52SPEAKERYes.
29:53SPEAKERIt's the CPU is quite dated and, and I, you know, we didn't even get into it, but it's
29:56SPEAKERbasically the same CPU in this thing.
29:57SPEAKERI think, and this is all out of the rumor mill, but I think the CPU can run at a slightly
30:01SPEAKERhigher clock at the expense of slightly lower GPU performance, but I don't know how many
30:06SPEAKERdevelopers are going to use that.
30:08SPEAKEROkay.
30:09SPEAKERBut it is basically the same CPU, which is more or less required.
30:12SPEAKERLike I see a lot of people gnashing their teeth about, well, they're not upgrading the
30:16SPEAKERCPU, who cares?
30:17SPEAKERBut like they kind of can't without, without breaking compatibility with existing software.
30:20SPEAKERLike they kind of, like the logic and everything has to run basically the same.
30:24SPEAKERIt makes the, it makes the other stuff a lot more complicated now.
30:28SPEAKERYes.
30:29SPEAKERAnd they, they're not like changing the, it's not like a PCIe 5 SSD or anything like that.
30:33SPEAKERNow it looks like.
30:34SPEAKERSame, same speed of storage.
30:35SPEAKERWe'll, we'll get to the other specs on the console in a minute, but yeah, same speed
30:39SPEAKERof RAM.
30:40SPEAKERYou know, they talked about what some of these games are getting.
30:42SPEAKERA lot of them, it was just, Hey, you know, higher resolution and higher frame rate like
30:45SPEAKERwe've pitched.
30:46SPEAKERBut then for example, like Gran Turismo 7 is getting real time ray trace reflections
30:50SPEAKERon cars, which it did not have before.
30:53SPEAKERSo there are, in some cases already, they're talking about specific features they are turning
30:57SPEAKERon for certain games.
30:59SPEAKERCNET got to go see this thing in person and talk to Cerny and some other Sony people about
31:05SPEAKERit.
31:06SPEAKERThe, the big quote that stood out to me, and this is not surprising because this is exactly
31:09SPEAKERhow the PS4 Pro went.
31:11SPEAKERCerny told them, I've already seen games with three different PS5 Pro modes.
31:16SPEAKERWhen you think about the pitch of, Hey, you've had to choose between performance and fidelity.
31:20SPEAKERWhat if you didn't have to choose anymore?
31:22SPEAKERLike already, of course, developers are using this headroom to just provide even more modes
31:25SPEAKERthat I, you know, and again, we talked about insomniac.
31:28SPEAKERThey have put three modes in PS5 games already where it's like performance, performance with
31:32SPEAKERray tracing and then full high resolution.
31:36SPEAKERHe went on to say, as time goes by, particularly for the games we're launching after the hardware
31:40SPEAKERreleases were increasingly, we'll increasingly see a more nuanced approach where the focus
31:44SPEAKERis less on resolution and much more about higher image quality through a variety of
31:48SPEAKERstrategies.
31:49SPEAKERSo you could see, you could see games a year or two from now coming out with dramatically
31:53SPEAKERbetter ray tracing or any number of other specific features being turned on.
31:58SPEAKERSo the interesting thing to me is whether the PSSR stuff is going to roll back onto
32:03SPEAKERthe older hardware too, because FSR isn't hardware dependent.
32:08SPEAKERIt'll just run the compute cores on the shader cores.
32:11SPEAKERSo I don't know.
32:12SPEAKERI have to imagine, no.
32:14SPEAKERI would think not, but also I just can't imagine the PS5 shipped with the hardware necessary
32:18SPEAKERto do this.
32:19SPEAKERI don't, I don't know that there's any machine learning capability in the PS5 to speak of.
32:24SPEAKERBut that's the thing.
32:25SPEAKERIf it's, if it's based on FSR, then there's no machine learning requirement.
32:28SPEAKERIt runs on shader cores.
32:30SPEAKERSo it could, it'll, it'll eat like there's a, there's a two lines on the graph meeting
32:36SPEAKERat the right place to decide whether it's worth implementing this and upscaling or,
32:42SPEAKERor not implementing this.
32:43SPEAKERAnd I don't know.
32:45SPEAKERIt's I just wonder, like the, the question with this stuff is always for developers is
32:51SPEAKERalways like how much, how many of these are they going to sell?
32:53SPEAKERIs it worth, is it worth taking the time to implement specific stuff for a SKU that's
33:02SPEAKERa fraction of a fraction of the, of the console audience versus say, you know, putting DLSS
33:09SPEAKERand FSR in your PC, PC port.
33:11SPEAKERRight.
33:12SPEAKERYeah.
33:13SPEAKERWell, I mean I don't know where this number has come from, but the number that's been
33:16SPEAKERgoing around for the PS4 Pro is that it was something like 12 to 14% of the total PS4
33:23SPEAKERinstall base, which doesn't sound like much.
33:25SPEAKERBut then when you look at the number of total units, that is like quite a few consoles.
33:28SPEAKERI think they also sold a bunch of those cause they was tied to the, it was pretty tied to
33:32SPEAKERthe PSVR launch.
33:34SPEAKERSo it was the way you got non fuzzy VR stuff too.
33:38SPEAKERLike I bought a PS Pro because of VR.
33:40SPEAKERRight.
33:41SPEAKERSome, some VR games did, did have enhancements.
33:43SPEAKERJust to be clear though, when you're talking about this trickling back to base PS5, are
33:46SPEAKERyou talking about PSSR because that is explicitly machine learning driven.
33:50SPEAKERSo they've very explicitly said this is based on machine learning hardware.
33:57SPEAKERMy question was if it's FSR based, then no, it's not.
34:00SPEAKERIt is.
34:01SPEAKERYeah.
34:02SPEAKERYeah.
34:03SPEAKERThere's no indication at all that that's the case.
34:04SPEAKEROkay.
34:05SPEAKERBasically it sounds like the PS4 Pro situation, except I think the, the upscaling is going
34:08SPEAKERto be much more effective than it was there.
34:10SPEAKERSo I do take them at their word that they're going to be able to deliver solid frame rates
34:15SPEAKERwith much higher resolution.
34:16SPEAKERWell, I can't wait to pop in my Ratchet and Clank disc and fire this up and see what it
34:20SPEAKERlooks like.
34:21SPEAKERWell, I have bad news for you on that front.
34:24SPEAKERYou said Ratchet and Clank is on the list.
34:25SPEAKERI can totally play it, right?
34:26SPEAKERIt's going to have all the ups, the new stuff that's going to be built in there.
34:29SPEAKERI love that game.
34:31SPEAKERDid you buy that on disc?
34:32SPEAKERLook, man, I was giving you a segue.
34:35SPEAKEROkay.
34:36SPEAKERDo you actually, I mean, in all seriousness though, I don't own a single PS5 disc.
34:39SPEAKERDo you?
34:40SPEAKERUh, no, I don't have any discs.
34:44SPEAKEROkay.
34:45SPEAKERI've only got 15, maybe, maybe 20 PS4 disc games, something like that.
34:49SPEAKERI had more PS4 disc games cause I had two PS4s for reasons.
34:53SPEAKERUm, but, but yeah, like I don't, I, I, okay, so I'm not in the rarefied air that you are
35:00SPEAKERwhere I get a bunch of codes for review games.
35:03SPEAKERSure.
35:04SPEAKERBut I also, with the exception of the Switch, which has its own unique set of problems,
35:07SPEAKERand I think we should do an episode about how the family sharing stuff works at some
35:10SPEAKERpoint in the future across the different platforms because Steam, it's relevant now, again, in
35:16SPEAKERa way that's interesting.
35:17SPEAKERSo Steam rolled out some kind of crazy changes to that setup.
35:19SPEAKERYeah.
35:20SPEAKERI buy a lot of cartridges for the Switch and no other physical media, basically.
35:25SPEAKERInteresting.
35:26SPEAKERTheoretically, let's say I had a Ratchet and Clank disc and I wanted to try it in my new
35:29SPEAKERPS4 Pro, PS5 Pro.
35:31SPEAKERIt's almost like, you know, the answer to this question.
35:33SPEAKERLook, man, sometimes you ask the question cause you know the answer read.
35:36SPEAKERSo yeah, we'll talk about the other specs on the console here.
35:39SPEAKERThey have up to the, they have up to the storage, the internal storage to two terabytes.
35:43SPEAKEROkay.
35:44SPEAKERThat sounds nice.
35:45SPEAKERWhich is over one terabyte in the slim and the original launch model only had like around
35:48SPEAKER650 gigabytes.
35:49SPEAKEROne of the things I didn't realize as a PS5 owner is that when you upgrade your SSD in
35:55SPEAKERthe PS5, when you open it up, crack open the shell and put a new SSD in there, it's additive
35:59SPEAKERand not replacing.
36:01SPEAKERSo like when I put a two terabyte SSD in my PS5, I then had two terabytes plus whatever
36:08SPEAKERthe 600 gigs was at launch.
36:10SPEAKEROh yeah.
36:11SPEAKERWhy, why would you expect it to...
36:12SPEAKERWell, I assumed it was just an SSD in there and I popped it off.
36:14SPEAKERI would open it up and take one SSD out and put a new one in.
36:18SPEAKERYou thought that the shipping SSD was removable.
36:21SPEAKERNo, no.
36:22SPEAKERYeah.
36:23SPEAKERThat's soldered on the board.
36:24SPEAKERThat is like everything is soldered to the board these days.
36:26SPEAKERWell, I mean, that makes sense in retrospect, but like I just assumed it was going to work
36:30SPEAKERlike a PC or a laptop or something.
36:32SPEAKERYeah.
36:33SPEAKERI get what you mean.
36:34SPEAKERThe bummer for me on both consoles, the Series X works the same way here is that it's not
36:40SPEAKERtransparently additive.
36:41SPEAKERAnd maybe it makes sense because the drive you put in is maybe going to have like subtly
36:45SPEAKERdifferent speed characteristics than the included one, but they don't all merge into one big
36:51SPEAKERstorage pool on the console.
36:52SPEAKERLike you still have to designate, do I want to install this to the, my added drive or
36:56SPEAKERto the shipping internal drive?
36:57SPEAKEROh, man, I have literally never thought about that at all.
37:01SPEAKERI just hit the install button and it does it and it's worked fine so far.
37:04SPEAKERWell, but that's the thing though, like we will run into cases where you don't have enough
37:08SPEAKERon your chosen drive and it will bug you to free up space rather than just falling back
37:14SPEAKERto the other one.
37:15SPEAKEROh, it hasn't, I haven't had that happen yet, but okay, I got it.
37:18SPEAKERSome way to just pull the storage together would be very nice.
37:21SPEAKEREspecially now that we have like PCIe 5 SSDs, it's not like getting a fast enough SSD is
37:27SPEAKERa problem like it used to be.
37:29SPEAKERYeah.
37:30SPEAKERYes.
37:31SPEAKERAnyway, so increased storage in there, but as you alluded to no Blu-ray drive, they are
37:35SPEAKERshipping a single SKU, also I'm really burying the lead on the price, we're just kind of
37:39SPEAKERsaving that for the end here.
37:41SPEAKERJust like Sony did.
37:42SPEAKEROh, by the way, guys.
37:43SPEAKERAt the very tail end of the video, I had expected there would not be a Blu-ray drive SKU for
37:50SPEAKERthis thing because I figured the margins were going to be such that they would try to keep
37:53SPEAKERcosts down as much as they could now that they have this modular drive design, because
37:58SPEAKERit's just easier to show a cheaper price on the box.
38:01SPEAKERI did not expect them to go as high as they did on the price, but anyway, yes, Blu-ray
38:05SPEAKERdrive not included here.
38:06SPEAKERThat's an additional $80, which is the same as the PS5 Slim.
38:10SPEAKERThe way the Slim works is it's $450 for the digital Slim, which actually went up.
38:16SPEAKERIf you remember the digital only original PS5 was $499, so the price went up $50 for
38:23SPEAKERthe digital Slim, but you can get the disk drive Slim for $500, so effectively you're
38:29SPEAKERpaying $50 for the disk drive if you buy it bundled, or $80 if you buy the disk drive
38:35SPEAKERseparately later.
38:36SPEAKERGot it.
38:37SPEAKERSo, it's going to be $80 if you want to add a Blu-ray drive to the PS5 Pro, and they're
38:41SPEAKERnot even including the vertical stand, although I don't think they include it with the Slim
38:45SPEAKEReither.
38:46SPEAKERI'm not mistaken.
38:47SPEAKERIs your PlayStation vertical or horizontal?
38:48SPEAKEROh, horizontal.
38:49SPEAKERAlways.
38:50SPEAKEROh, wow.
38:51SPEAKERWeird.
38:52SPEAKERMine's vertical.
38:53SPEAKERIt's long.
38:54SPEAKERWhere am I going to stand that thing up?
38:55SPEAKERWhat's on the floor by my desk?
38:57SPEAKERThat works.
38:58SPEAKERI mean, it's basically the size of a mini-ITX computer at this point.
39:02SPEAKERKind of is.
39:03SPEAKERSo, yeah.
39:04SPEAKERNothing in the box.
39:05SPEAKERIf you want Blu-ray drive or stand, that's going to be $110 combined.
39:10SPEAKERGet wrecked.
39:11SPEAKEROn top of the $700 price.
39:12SPEAKERAlso, it's got Wi-Fi 7, just to follow up on last week's episode.
39:15SPEAKEROh, that's nice.
39:16SPEAKERIt's like they were listening.
39:17SPEAKERYeah, the first of the two consoles that we have evaluated here for upcoming Wi-Fi 7 support
39:22SPEAKERhas returned a positive.
39:24SPEAKERYou mean 802.11b, I think.
39:26SPEAKERYes.
39:27SPEAKERThat's the one.
39:28SPEAKEROh, that sounds good.
39:29SPEAKERSo I think that's everything.
39:30SPEAKERYeah.
39:31SPEAKERIt's about the same size as the launch PS5, it sounds like.
39:34SPEAKERI think they said it's exactly the same length as the launch PS5, but maybe a tad bit thinner.
39:40SPEAKERIt looks like the fin-to-body ratio is closer to one-to-one now.
39:45SPEAKERYeah, that got smaller on the Slim also.
39:47SPEAKERYeah, the PS5, the fins stick up above the top of the console quite a bit.
39:53SPEAKERThe popped collar design of the PS5 has gotten a little bit more dignified over time.
39:57SPEAKERI like the PS5 design, dude.
39:59SPEAKERI hate it, man.
40:00SPEAKERI just, I literally wrote in the notes here, this thing has the same abhorrent industrial
40:04SPEAKERdesign as the other PS5 products.
40:06SPEAKERI mean, look, my take on this is that I kind of don't care what it looks like as long as
40:10SPEAKERI never hear it when it turns on.
40:12SPEAKERAnd I haven't heard a fan on this thing yet, and even the PS4 and Xbox One era, I still
40:17SPEAKERheard the fans on occasionally.
40:19SPEAKERYou got lucky then because there is a legitimate fan roulette that goes on with the PS5s, unfortunately.
40:24SPEAKEROh, wow.
40:25SPEAKERReally?
40:26SPEAKERI didn't know that.
40:27SPEAKERCertain brands of fans that they ship are just awful to listen to and it's not for like
40:31SPEAKERnormal mechanics.
40:32SPEAKERI've heard this, I've been in the presence of PS5s that have these types of fans.
40:36SPEAKERIt's not for normal mechanical reasons, there's like some kind of resonance that happens with
40:39SPEAKERthese fans.
40:40SPEAKERIt sounds like if you Google UFO effect, that's what the kind of community has come to call
40:44SPEAKERit.
40:45SPEAKEROh, boy.
40:46SPEAKERBecause it sounds like this, it almost sounds like this little bit of like this 50s sci-fi
40:49SPEAKERlike Ray Gun or UFO.
40:51SPEAKERIt's like an off.
40:52SPEAKERYes.
40:53SPEAKERThat's like warbling.
40:54SPEAKEROh, that sucks.
40:55SPEAKERIt's pretty subtle, but it's like very noticeable.
40:57SPEAKERIt's not great.
40:58SPEAKERIt's the kind of thing that once you hear, you can't ever un-hear.
41:00SPEAKERYeah.
41:01SPEAKERSo there's people out, there's all kinds of people out there replacing their PS5 fans
41:03SPEAKERto try to get off whatever brand that is that makes that awful sound.
41:06SPEAKERWe can see that.
41:07SPEAKERAnyway.
41:08SPEAKEROkay.
41:09SPEAKERSo what we're seeing here, except for the price, which again is $700, which.
41:12SPEAKERWait, is it 700 or is it 799?
41:15SPEAKERNo, it's 700.
41:16SPEAKEROh, okay.
41:17SPEAKERCool.
41:18SPEAKERIt's 799 euros.
41:19SPEAKEROh, okay.
41:20SPEAKERI think I must have seen euro pricing because.
41:22SPEAKERYes.
41:23SPEAKERYeah.
41:24SPEAKEROkay.
41:25SPEAKERSo 700 bucks suddenly seems a lot better to me because I was thinking it was $800 until
41:27SPEAKERabout 20 seconds ago.
41:29SPEAKERBut I'm trying to think back through the long annals of console pricing.
41:32SPEAKERThe 3DO was $700 in 1993, but I'm not sure, I'm not sure if there's been another console
41:38SPEAKERthis expensive ever.
41:39SPEAKERWhat was the famous, the famous PS4 quote was people will start saving money now to
41:45SPEAKERbuy a PlayStation.
41:46SPEAKERPS3.
41:47SPEAKERPS3 for $600.
41:48SPEAKERIt was the PS3 at 599 in 2006.
41:50SPEAKERI mean, it came out in, oh no, it did come out in 2006.
41:54SPEAKERThe famous Ken Kutaragi quote was more along the lines of like, we think people will want
41:58SPEAKERto work more hours or maybe, or pick up a second job to afford it.
42:04SPEAKERYeah.
42:05SPEAKERThat's, that's in retrospect.
42:07SPEAKERWhich always goes over great.
42:08SPEAKEROkay.
42:09SPEAKERSo 2006, $600.
42:10SPEAKERI'm just doing the inflation calculator.
42:14SPEAKERYou're just doing the thing.
42:15SPEAKERWould cost $936 today.
42:17SPEAKERThe, the PS, so you're saying the PS3 today would be $936?
42:21SPEAKER$936 today.
42:22SPEAKEROkay.
42:23SPEAKEROkay.
42:24SPEAKERYeah.
42:25SPEAKERI mean, that's, that's still probably the actual most egregious example of this based
42:27SPEAKERon inflation, but there's a, you may have noticed there was a tremendous amount of sticker
42:31SPEAKERshock going on out there over this.
42:34SPEAKERI think everything is more expensive.
42:37SPEAKERI also like the problem with the $700 price range on this is that you're in striking distance
42:42SPEAKERof building a pretty nice Kennedy PPC with DLSS upscaling to 4k, right?
42:49SPEAKERLike you can, you can, you can put together something pretty good.
42:52SPEAKERYeah.
42:53SPEAKERThis absolutely like, like we've, we've, we've run this exercise like for the last eight
42:57SPEAKERyears or something, probably since the PS4 Pro and One X came out of saying like, Hey,
43:03SPEAKERif you want better frame rates, now that they're trying to give you better frameworks and consoles
43:06SPEAKERfor more money, just build a PC.
43:08SPEAKERI think this is probably the first time where the, the, the financials of that split actually
43:13SPEAKERmakes sense.
43:14SPEAKERI think that's right.
43:15SPEAKER$700 is a tremendous amount of money and you're not going to build a PC that performs like
43:20SPEAKERthis for $700, but you can get pretty close, I think.
43:23SPEAKERYeah.
43:24SPEAKERI think you can, you can be in striking distance.
43:28SPEAKERSo okay.
43:29SPEAKERThat raises the question of who is this for.
43:32SPEAKERIt's a very specific slice of the market that wants better performance, but doesn't want
43:35SPEAKERto deal with PC for whatever reason.
43:37SPEAKERI, I mean, I know people who are in that, like I know I play hell divers on the regular
43:41SPEAKERwith people who are in that, in that, in that category.
43:44SPEAKERYeah.
43:45SPEAKERYes.
43:46SPEAKERRight.
43:47SPEAKERSo obviously a lot of money.
43:48SPEAKERI don't know what this pretends for the future of console pricing, but I also don't know
43:52SPEAKERwhere like supply chain things are at in the wake of the pandemic and what kind of like
43:56SPEAKEReverything is more expensive now.
43:57SPEAKERAnd I don't know how much of that is like manufacturing and supply realities, how much
44:01SPEAKERof that is price gouging.
44:04SPEAKERSomebody very famously, like very publicly needs to get revenue up.
44:07SPEAKERLike they're, they're operating their margins have been bad the last year or two in the
44:12SPEAKERfinancial world.
44:13SPEAKERSo like they are trying, they are trying to make as much money as they can.
44:15SPEAKERSo like selling this thing at a loss or even a breakeven is probably not an option for
44:19SPEAKERthem.
44:20SPEAKERSo what is the cost on this thing?
44:21SPEAKERI would love to know how much have they just marked this up over what it costs them to
44:24SPEAKERmake.
44:25SPEAKERYeah.
44:26SPEAKERIt's it's, well, I mean, here's the thing.
44:27SPEAKERThey're not getting rid of the base model either.
44:29SPEAKERRight.
44:30SPEAKERLike, like this is the luxury product and it's going to be priced at a luxury price
44:35SPEAKERpoint.
44:36SPEAKERAnd then that's just, you know, that's how it is.
44:38SPEAKERYes.
44:39SPEAKERI predicted and hoped this would come in at 599 which it did not clearly, which is a shame.
44:45SPEAKERI don't think that's reasonable given the price of the Xbox cause the two terabyte series
44:51SPEAKERX is 600 bucks.
44:52SPEAKERYeah.
44:53SPEAKERSo, so I I've, I have gone and found that granted that is a special edition.
44:56SPEAKERThat's that like kind of cosmos or whatever.
44:59SPEAKERXbox series X.
45:00SPEAKERIt's got a starburst pattern on it.
45:02SPEAKERBut special editions usually don't cost more.
45:03SPEAKERThey're usually the same price.
45:04SPEAKERThey're just limited.
45:05SPEAKERUsually they're just limited.
45:06SPEAKERRight?
45:07SPEAKERYes.
45:08SPEAKERYes.
45:09SPEAKERBut to reiterate, that's an Xbox series X with two terabytes in it, but that's just
45:10SPEAKERa base model.
45:11SPEAKERYou know, it's, it's the same console that launched that is 599 just with double the
45:15SPEAKERstorage in it.
45:16SPEAKERSo I wonder either either everybody is price gouging or these things are just getting expensive
45:22SPEAKERenough to make that this is a new reality.
45:24SPEAKERI'm really not sure.
45:25SPEAKERWell, I think, I think it's, I think it's price gouging.
45:29SPEAKERI think it's, I think inflation has been a real motherfucker for the last couple of years.
45:33SPEAKERLike, like on one hand, we got out of a global pandemic that stopped all production of everything
45:38SPEAKERfor a period of months and or years, depending on the categories.
45:42SPEAKERAnd we did it without an enormous depression, at least so far, or even really much of a
45:47SPEAKERrecession.
45:48SPEAKERAnd if all we got out of it is some inflation, then I think that's probably pretty good all
45:54SPEAKERthings considered, but also shit is expensive.
45:58SPEAKERYeah.
45:59SPEAKERYes.
46:00SPEAKERAnd, and Sony had said earlier this year, I went back and pulled this quote and investor
46:04SPEAKERreports.
46:05SPEAKERThey had said earlier this year that it's going to be difficult to cut the PS five's
46:08SPEAKERprice because typically by this point in the generation, the price would have probably
46:12SPEAKERstarted to go down at least 50 or a hundred dollars.
46:15SPEAKERWell, yeah, but like, because, so in the old days, what you would do is you do a dye shrink
46:19SPEAKERand like you do like in the Xbox 360 era, they combined the CPU and the GPU onto a single
46:25SPEAKERdye and like increasingly got more of an as a system of a ship on that chip on that thing.
46:31SPEAKERAnd since they're starting with air now, the process of the dye shrinks is also much more
46:35SPEAKERcomplicated because they're bringing the entire SOC down and like it may not even be cost
46:41SPEAKEReffective to do that considering how the console sales like cycle, like in the old days, there
46:48SPEAKERwere people who would pick up a new generation on that mid season, that mid season price
46:53SPEAKERdrop.
46:54SPEAKERAnd I don't know that that happens anymore.
46:55SPEAKERWell, obviously the PS five slim exists, so it has gotten smaller, but yeah, like for
46:58SPEAKERpeople who don't care about the internals of consoles, you know, if you look back at
47:02SPEAKERlike you, like you were just saying, every one of the mid season shrinks on a console,
47:06SPEAKERevery time that you, every time you go from PS three fat to PS three medium, and then
47:10SPEAKERthat tiny little sliding top top loader, there's a concomitant reduction in the complexity
47:18SPEAKERof the components inside as well.
47:19SPEAKERLike if you just look at the boards inside those things, there's way less stuff on there
47:22SPEAKERbecause they have shrunk and consolidated everything.
47:25SPEAKERAnd it just sounds like that is not happening this time.
47:27SPEAKERAnd I don't know, that probably owes to a lot of factors.
47:30SPEAKERI do know they went from seven nanometer to six when they went to the slim, but Sony interactive
47:36SPEAKERentertainment head Hiroki Tottoki said in this investor thing that like he quite specifically
47:42SPEAKERpointed to the difficulty of further shrinking the PS five SOC die as the reason they are
47:47SPEAKERnot able to cut the price anymore.
47:49SPEAKERSo we talked about this recently, it just makes me think again about all the competition
47:53SPEAKERfor TSMC's capacity these days, Nvidia and Apple are basically just hogging all of the
47:58SPEAKERgood fabrication now with phones and AI chips.
48:02SPEAKERAnd so it's just gotten harder and more expensive for other companies to get good stuff made.
48:07SPEAKERAnd also with the high end stuff being all desegregated now, they're able to really target
48:12SPEAKERthe stuff that's going to benefit from the, like the four nanometer process on the, and
48:18SPEAKERnot, not waste a bunch of their internal die space on things that won't, won't benefit
48:23SPEAKERfrom that.
48:24SPEAKERSo you're seeing like this is a, this is an old monolithic design and it means that if
48:28SPEAKERthey want to do a four nanometer version of this, they got to do the entire thing at four
48:31SPEAKERnanometers, which is going to have huge costs because like you said, they're competing with
48:34SPEAKERNvidia and Intel and AMD and yeah, anyway, it's, it's a, it's a tough situation.
48:40SPEAKERYeah.
48:41SPEAKERAnd then to be clear, I'm not, I'm not trying to argue the prices like justified or palatable.
48:45SPEAKERIt obviously is not like that's a tremendous amount of money, but I do, I do think it's
48:49SPEAKERworth trying to figure out what is going on behind the scenes and how much of this is
48:53SPEAKERagain, how much of this is, is them, I don't want to say profiteering, but, you know, trying
48:58SPEAKERto increase their, their profit margins and you know, what are, what are just the hard
49:01SPEAKERlimits on what the manufacturing cost is and that sort of thing.
49:04SPEAKERYeah.
49:05SPEAKERI think, I mean, I think here, here's the thing on the mid season upgrade, right.
49:08SPEAKERIs you're never going to see them do that as a loss leader, that is a premium product.
49:13SPEAKERYeah, you're probably, you're almost definitely right about that.
49:16SPEAKERI think, I think because we're seeing, I think there's two things that have happened this
49:20SPEAKERtime that are weird.
49:21SPEAKEROne is that the pandemic supply constraints caused a lot of people to have a hard time
49:24SPEAKERgetting hardware for the first half of this cycle, right.
49:28SPEAKERThe first half of the cycle to date.
49:30SPEAKERSo like if you're looking at PlayStation five availability, it kind of like black Friday
49:34SPEAKERlast year was the first time I remember seeing, Oh, you can go into a store and get a PS five.
49:39SPEAKERAnd it was also the first time it really went on sale.
49:41SPEAKERSo you're seeing I think, I think there's an opportunity here for them that didn't exist
49:48SPEAKERon like the PS4 pro or the Xbox series, sorry, the Xbox one X because like they had typically
49:58SPEAKERyou release this once you filled supply, once you've, once you've filled demand for, for
50:02SPEAKERthe hardware generation.
50:04SPEAKERAnd now there's probably still a bunch of people out there who are sitting looking like,
50:07SPEAKERman, I play games on my PC and I don't need a PS five because they just really like got
50:11SPEAKERa war comes out later this month.
50:13SPEAKERAnd that's the only thing I really care about at this point.
50:16SPEAKERNow you're looking at this, at this pro as, Hey, I didn't, I haven't bought a PS five
50:21SPEAKERyet.
50:22SPEAKERIs it worth paying an extra 200 bucks to get the good one?
50:26SPEAKEROr should I just get the cheapo and consider it good enough?
50:28SPEAKERAnd like the value proposition for this for me for this is how much longer is this generation
50:36SPEAKERgoing to last?
50:37SPEAKERI assume that that weird three year overlap is going to be the norm going forward because
50:43SPEAKERit turns out people who spend a hundred million dollars making games like to sell them to
50:46SPEAKERas many people as possible.
50:48SPEAKERSo maybe the mid season upgrade, isn't a bad, bad call if you haven't already bought into
50:53SPEAKERPS fives yet.
50:54SPEAKERRight?
50:55SPEAKERYeah.
50:56SPEAKERI mean, if you can stomach the price, of course, there's, there's also, there's also the the
50:59SPEAKERidea of the upgrade costs, you know, and people saying, I already have a good PS five.
51:04SPEAKERI'm not paying $700 for that, but I suspect Sony is looking for a lot of trade-ins on
51:08SPEAKERthis thing because they themselves have launched a direct trade-in program now, you can actually
51:13SPEAKERtrade your PS five in.
51:14SPEAKERI mean, I guess that's, I mean, Apple has been in that business for, for years.
51:17SPEAKERMaybe that's just everybody following in their stuff and their footsteps, but you can trade
51:22SPEAKERyour PS five then directly to Sony now for, for some amount of money off of this thing.
51:27SPEAKERAnd there's, you know, the GameStops of the world as well.
51:29SPEAKERLike I assume, I assume that's probably going to be a route a lot of people will go who
51:32SPEAKERwant to trade up.
51:33SPEAKERI, I just he's like, I don't know that this is worth an upgrade.
51:37SPEAKERYeah.
51:38SPEAKERIt is.
51:39SPEAKERYou know, it is a very, like I said, a very specific niche of people who want more performance
51:43SPEAKERout of console they already have, but don't want to build a PC.
51:47SPEAKERCompetitive Cod players, man.
51:48SPEAKERYeah.
51:49SPEAKERMaybe a Cod runs just fine.
51:51SPEAKERYeah.
51:52SPEAKERThat's the thing.
51:53SPEAKERAnyway.
51:54SPEAKERSo, okay.
51:55SPEAKERSo that's PS five.
51:56SPEAKERYou want to talk about some Apple stuff real quick?
51:57SPEAKERYeah.
51:58SPEAKERJam it out here.
51:59SPEAKERSure.
52:00SPEAKERApple's September event.
52:01SPEAKERUh, the, the, there's two underlying threads.
52:04SPEAKEROne is that Apple intelligence is the thing that they're counting on to sell all of this
52:08SPEAKERstuff.
52:09SPEAKERCause when you look at the hardware pages on their website, it's like the first it's
52:13SPEAKERlike, Hey, it's bigger and the screen looks better.
52:16SPEAKERAnd then there's like three pages of stuff about Apple intelligence and how amazing it's
52:19SPEAKERgoing to be.
52:20SPEAKERAnd then the second thing underlining it is a lot of the features that are the most exciting
52:23SPEAKERthings about these new pieces of hardware, aren't going to be available at launch.
52:26SPEAKEROh, cause Apple intelligence doesn't ship until seven until the fall later this fall.
52:31SPEAKERWait, is it not just in iOS 18 out of the gates?
52:35SPEAKERDid I know that?
52:36SPEAKERNope.
52:37SPEAKERNothing there.
52:38SPEAKERWhen you download the betas, there's nothing there.
52:39SPEAKERAll the, all the Apple intelligence features say coming soon.
52:42SPEAKERIt's Brad.
52:44SPEAKERWhen you go to the buy page for the iPhone, it says iPhone 16, 6.1 inch display.
52:49SPEAKERAnd then underneath it is the Apple intelligence logo and Apple intelligence with a footnote
52:54SPEAKERthat when you click the footnote number eight, it says, I'm going to read it exactly.
52:59SPEAKERSo I don't mess it up.
53:01SPEAKERApple intelligence will be available in beta on all iPhone 16 models, iPhone 15 pro and
53:06SPEAKER15 pro max with Siri and device language set to us English as an iOS 18 update this fall,
53:13SPEAKERsome features and additional languages will be coming over the course of the next year.
53:17SPEAKERSo if you have a 15 pro or 15 pro max, you're fine.
53:22SPEAKERIf you have a 16, you get Apple intelligence only if you're in the United States or if
53:28SPEAKERyour language is set to us English, I guess you don't have to be in the United States,
53:31SPEAKERbut your language has to be American English anyway.
53:36SPEAKERSo there's a handful of new things coming on phones.
53:41SPEAKERI think the big takeaway I had is that the iPhone 16 non-pro seems like the real winner.
53:48SPEAKERThey've upgraded.
53:49SPEAKERSo that's the two camera model.
53:51SPEAKERThey upgraded the ultra wide camera that they put on a couple of years ago.
53:58SPEAKERI would describe the ultra wide previously as fine.
54:01SPEAKERYou're not going to use it for an up close shot.
54:03SPEAKERYou're not going to do a digital zoom on it or something like that.
54:05SPEAKERThe pictures that they're showing out of that and the reports that I saw from people that
54:08SPEAKERhands on seem to say that the built in, it has a 2X telephoto mode that's on that lens
54:17SPEAKERas well that takes some subset of the 48 megapixels and does a better than digital zoom.
54:25SPEAKERDigital zoom is the way people were describing it.
54:29SPEAKERIt seems fine.
54:30SPEAKERIt has a macro mode now, so you used to be able to cheat that, but it seems to do up
54:34SPEAKERclose focusing.
54:35SPEAKERSo you get that ultra wide up real close on something and take a cool frog picture if
54:38SPEAKERyou get the frog to be still.
54:39SPEAKERLove a cool frog picture.
54:42SPEAKERWe have frogs in our backyard.
54:44SPEAKERThere's a crack in my patio and as I walked by it the other day, a frog leapt out and
54:48SPEAKERlanded on me.
54:49SPEAKERWow.
54:50SPEAKERAnd I was like...
54:51SPEAKERWait, on you?
54:52SPEAKEROn my foot.
54:53SPEAKERIt landed on my foot.
54:54SPEAKERThat's great.
54:55SPEAKERI think it made a mistake.
54:56SPEAKERIt was not happy about its choices.
54:57SPEAKEROkay.
54:58SPEAKERBut when I walked by there, just sticking there, there's two frogs and they're poking
55:00SPEAKERtheir heads out.
55:01SPEAKERI'm like, "Hey, frogs.
55:02SPEAKERHow's it going?"
55:03SPEAKERYou got to take some cool frog photos.
55:04SPEAKERThey don't stay still is the problem.
55:07SPEAKERAnyway, you get spatial compatibility if you're one of the eight people who bought an Apple
55:11SPEAKERVision Pro and you get this new audio mix thing that lets you use some vision machine
55:19SPEAKERlearning stuff to give you more control over the audio and the shots.
55:23SPEAKERYou can say, "Okay, I only want to have the main subjects.
55:25SPEAKERI want to only have the stuff that's in frame.
55:26SPEAKERI want to get the complete audio spectrum."
55:31SPEAKERThere's more.
55:32SPEAKERWe'll talk more of that on the pros because that is one of the pro features.
55:35SPEAKERIt's an A18 processor.
55:37SPEAKERThey built an internal frame that's made out of aluminum and is designed to help dissipate
55:40SPEAKERheat better, which is one of the problems with the older heart.
55:44SPEAKERMy 15 Pro gets hot.
55:45SPEAKERYeah, especially as they've been shipping your Resident Evil 4s and some modern games
55:49SPEAKERon there.
55:50SPEAKERApparently, they get extremely warm running through those.
55:53SPEAKERYeah.
55:54SPEAKERThey can get up to higher than body temperature regularly.
55:58SPEAKERIt's surprising the places.
56:01SPEAKERIt's not spread out over the entire frame.
56:03SPEAKERIt's only in specific places, so I assume that they're doing probably not heat pipes,
56:07SPEAKERbut just more intentional contact points for the metal to the glass internally.
56:16SPEAKERThe 16 now has the satellite text and roadside assistance and crash detection, which I think
56:20SPEAKERare new in the 16.
56:23SPEAKERIt has the action button, which is the thing they put on the Pro last year to replace the
56:26SPEAKERold toggle switch for silent and non-silent, which is one of those things I was skeptical
56:33SPEAKERabout.
56:34SPEAKERHaving a button that automatically takes you to portrait mode, it turns out really nice.
56:37SPEAKERHaving a dedicated camera button, pretty good.
56:39SPEAKERYeah.
56:40SPEAKERCustomizable action button is great.
56:41SPEAKERI kind of wish they had not removed the hard mute toggle, just because there was tactile
56:45SPEAKERfeedback there about whether it was muted or not.
56:49SPEAKERYou can keep it on mute if you want.
56:51SPEAKERYou can keep that mute button if you want.
56:53SPEAKERI switched it almost immediately for what it's worth.
56:56SPEAKERReally good colors on the 16.
56:57SPEAKERIt's like pink and blue, and they're pink, blue, green, kind of white and black.
57:03SPEAKERIt seems nice.
57:04SPEAKEROkay.
57:05SPEAKERThere won't be any news on this until - before we get to the Pro, I think we're about to
57:07SPEAKERmove on - I guess there won't be any news on this until there are teardowns after it
57:10SPEAKERcomes out.
57:11SPEAKERThere were rumors.
57:12SPEAKERI actually saw this from Kyle Wiens on Twitter, the iFixit guy.
57:17SPEAKERThere were rumors that they were using a new method of securing the battery.
57:20SPEAKERI mean, obviously, this is something he would care about.
57:21SPEAKEROh, instead of gluing it in?
57:23SPEAKERYes.
57:24SPEAKERInstead of whatever apparently very crappy heat-sensitive adhesive that they're using,
57:30SPEAKERI believe he made it sound like it was some kind of voltage-based securing mechanism.
57:35SPEAKERWeird.
57:36SPEAKERLike, I don't know if that would be something magnetic or something that you would apply
57:38SPEAKERcurrent to or something along those lines.
57:40SPEAKERI can't imagine they'd waste battery on something that holds the battery in place.
57:43SPEAKERWell, I don't know.
57:44SPEAKERWe'll see when it comes out.
57:45SPEAKERThere are those new types of magnets that are in more use now where you apply current
57:49SPEAKERto them once and they become secured.
57:51SPEAKEROh, yeah.
57:52SPEAKERIt could be that.
57:53SPEAKERAnd then they don't let go until you kind of invert the current or whatever it is.
57:57SPEAKERYeah.
57:58SPEAKERI don't know.
57:59SPEAKERI don't know if that's cool.
58:00SPEAKERYeah.
58:01SPEAKERObviously, Apple's not going to talk about that in their presentation, but that's something
58:03SPEAKERI'm curious just from a tech perspective that sounds neat.
58:06SPEAKERI mean, they've been doing better about repairability stuff and that's one of the adhesive batteries
58:11SPEAKERis one of the last places that they had big problems.
58:14SPEAKERSure.
58:15SPEAKERI guess with right to repair stuff, picking up more steam, I guess it is in their interest
58:18SPEAKERto make things more easily accessible both to them and customers.
58:21SPEAKERYeah.
58:22SPEAKERSo, okay.
58:23SPEAKEROther stuff.
58:24SPEAKERThey have the new camera button in the 16, which I was kind of surprised by.
58:27SPEAKERI expected that to be a 16 Pro only thing.
58:30SPEAKERIt's another taptic, they call it a taptic button, which means it's a capacitive place
58:36SPEAKERwith some haptic stuff underneath it that works like the touch pad does on the MacBook
58:43SPEAKERwhere it doesn't actually move, but it feels like it's moving to your finger.
58:47SPEAKERBasically, you can swipe it, you can press it.
58:53SPEAKERIn the future, you'll be able to do a half press to lock focus just like you would on
58:57SPEAKERan old point-and-shoot camera and then reframe your shot however you want.
59:01SPEAKERThat's coming soon.
59:02SPEAKERAgain, another coming soon feature.
59:05SPEAKERBut yeah, so by default, if you swipe it, it does zoom.
59:09SPEAKERAnd then if you click it, it launches the camera.
59:11SPEAKERThe camera is supposed to launch very quickly.
59:13SPEAKERI actually timed the camera from the action button on my 15 Pro Max and it seemed faster
59:21SPEAKERin the video.
59:22SPEAKERI don't know.
59:23SPEAKERI don't know if an extra half second matters, but whatever, it seems good.
59:27SPEAKERTrying to get a shot rapidly, the faster the camera comes up, the better.
59:31SPEAKERMy kid's old enough now that if I tell her to stop, then she stops so I can take the
59:34SPEAKERpicture of her when she'll be still for me.
59:38SPEAKERYeah.
59:39SPEAKERWell, when we were on the highway the other week and we were driving past a car that had
59:43SPEAKERa license plate that said Waluigi on it.
59:46SPEAKERYeah, you need the button for that, clearly.
59:48SPEAKERWith a J. I was trying to get my camera out as fast as I could.
59:51SPEAKERThat's pretty good.
59:52SPEAKERYeah.
59:53SPEAKEROkay, that thing sounds pretty good.
59:58SPEAKERSorry, my phone's yelling at me.
1:00:03SPEAKERIt has styles, which seems like a filter replacement.
1:00:08SPEAKERThis is a thing that looks almost like color grading, like presets for color grading that
1:00:15SPEAKERare revertable.
1:00:16SPEAKERSo it takes this picture, you can set it to automatically apply your style, it can adjust
1:00:22SPEAKERfor your skin tone, and you can revert those changes.
1:00:28SPEAKERThey're not baked into the file, so that's a good change.
1:00:32SPEAKERThat's on both the 16 and 16 Pro.
1:00:34SPEAKERIt's not coming to older phones, which is interesting.
1:00:36SPEAKERSo I assume it's using the faster...
1:00:38SPEAKERWhen they showed the die shot for the A18 processor, it looks like about 20% of the
1:00:44SPEAKERdie is dedicated to the AI acceleration stuff, which is more than in previous years, assuming
1:00:52SPEAKERtheir stuff is to scale.
1:00:54SPEAKEROkay, so 16 Pro.
1:00:57SPEAKEROh, so that starts at 800 bucks for the normal, 900 bucks for the max.
1:01:03SPEAKERWoof.
1:01:04SPEAKERSpeaking of that, speaking of everything being expensive now.
1:01:07SPEAKERWell, I mean, that's what they've been costing for a while.
1:01:10SPEAKERIt's more expensive than the 600 bucks that the iPhone launched yet.
1:01:13SPEAKERYes, but I'm on an iPhone SE that was 400 and something that I've had for three years.
1:01:19SPEAKERAnd it's still 128 gigabyte base model, 100 bucks more for up to 512 gigs of storage on
1:01:25SPEAKERthese.
1:01:26SPEAKERThe 16 is a 6.1 inch display, and the 16 Plus is a 6.7 inch display.
1:01:33SPEAKERThat's pretty much it.
1:01:35SPEAKERHonestly, it's the first time in a long time that the 16, the non-Pro model didn't seem
1:01:42SPEAKERlike a second class citizen.
1:01:43SPEAKEROkay, so iPhone 16, pretty good.
1:01:46SPEAKERI'm going to say the iPhone 16 Pro feels a little thin.
1:01:51SPEAKERWell, not actually thinner.
1:01:53SPEAKERIt's the same size as the last years, but it's philosophically thinner.
1:02:00SPEAKERThe Pro starts at a thousand bucks, just like before.
1:02:02SPEAKERThe Pro Max, which is bigger, starts at $1,200, sorry, $1,199.
1:02:07SPEAKERI've got to use the proper numerology.
1:02:12SPEAKERAnd it's a 6.3 and 6.9 inch display.
1:02:16SPEAKERI think the displays are technically a little bit larger because the bezels are a little
1:02:20SPEAKERbit thinner this time.
1:02:21SPEAKERIs that new?
1:02:22SPEAKERIs it new for the Pro to actually have a different form factor?
1:02:25SPEAKERThe Pro has had the same form factor.
1:02:28SPEAKERNo, the Pro has been slightly different for a while.
1:02:31SPEAKERThe Pro didn't have the, the non-Pro didn't have the embedded hole in the screen for the
1:02:37SPEAKERcamera.
1:02:38SPEAKERThat's right.
1:02:39SPEAKERYes, right.
1:02:40SPEAKERSo actually, I'm sorry, real, real quick, is that, is that where we're at on the regular
1:02:46SPEAKERiPhone or is the regular iPhone still notched or does it have the island?
1:02:50SPEAKERYou know, that is a good question.
1:02:51SPEAKERI didn't actually look at, I don't think I, I didn't watch, I didn't look at that if I'm,
1:02:54SPEAKERif I'm remembering.
1:02:55SPEAKERVery easy to check.
1:02:56SPEAKERI think it's notched.
1:02:57SPEAKERIs it still?
1:02:58SPEAKEROh, interesting.
1:02:59SPEAKERI figured that would just trickle down to all the phones.
1:03:01SPEAKERNo, no, I'm sorry.
1:03:02SPEAKERIt's island.
1:03:03SPEAKERIt's islanded.
1:03:04SPEAKERReally?
1:03:05SPEAKERYes.
1:03:06SPEAKERYes.
1:03:07SPEAKERYou're right.
1:03:08SPEAKERThe regular 16 is an island.
1:03:09SPEAKERIt's funny.
1:03:10SPEAKERThe thumbnail on the website looks like the notch when you click on the thing, but it's
1:03:11SPEAKERthe island.
1:03:12SPEAKERSo yeah.
1:03:13SPEAKERI think it was last year, I think it was just the pro that had the island last year.
1:03:16SPEAKERRight?
1:03:17SPEAKERYeah.
1:03:18SPEAKERThe island was new last year.
1:03:19SPEAKERIs that right?
1:03:20SPEAKERYes.
1:03:21SPEAKERI believe that's right.
1:03:22SPEAKERYeah.
1:03:23SPEAKERSo the island was just pro last year.
1:03:24SPEAKERSo now everything has the, everything has the knot as the island.
1:03:26SPEAKERWait.
1:03:27SPEAKEROh, I'm sorry.
1:03:28SPEAKERGot to correct.
1:03:29SPEAKERIt was the year before.
1:03:30SPEAKERShould we just start over?
1:03:31SPEAKEROh, no, let's just keep rolling.
1:03:32SPEAKERThe 15 had the island.
1:03:33SPEAKERI'm going to say the iPhone 14 did not.
1:03:36SPEAKEROkay.
1:03:37SPEAKERThis is where we're at.
1:03:38SPEAKERThe island, the island is a feature that I never like sometimes food pickup because like
1:03:44SPEAKERI ordered Domino's pizza the other day because somebody in the house wanted cheesy bread
1:03:48SPEAKERand I got the island thing on that, but only briefly.
1:03:52SPEAKERAnd then it went away.
1:03:53SPEAKERThe only other place I like when I was on an airplane flight and I used to the, the,
1:03:58SPEAKERthe E ticket to check in, I had the island on that and it gave me the notification for
1:04:02SPEAKERlike when the flight was going to be over, which was kind of nice.
1:04:06SPEAKERYeah.
1:04:07SPEAKERSo are you saying you just don't pay attention to it otherwise or, or app developers literally
1:04:10SPEAKERaren't even not even using it.
1:04:12SPEAKERI hardly ever see it used by anything other than like Apple music uses it.
1:04:16SPEAKERSpotify uses it.
1:04:17SPEAKERMy podcast player uses it because, because I mean, persistent status on a screen like
1:04:22SPEAKERthat has a lot of value.
1:04:24SPEAKERObviously.
1:04:25SPEAKERIt's Apple.
1:04:26SPEAKERWhen you watch something on the Apple TV, it uses it.
1:04:27SPEAKERThat's nice.
1:04:28SPEAKERBut other than that, not really a whole lot of use.
1:04:30SPEAKERSorry.
1:04:31SPEAKERNot to derail further here.
1:04:32SPEAKERAre we still, are we still hoping that someday they'll be able to just transparently hide
1:04:35SPEAKERthe camera behind the screen?
1:04:38SPEAKERI don't, I don't really care.
1:04:39SPEAKERIt doesn't bother me anymore.
1:04:41SPEAKERJust like, do we think that's possible?
1:04:43SPEAKERDo we think that's something they're working on?
1:04:45SPEAKERI don't know.
1:04:46SPEAKERThat was the rumor for a long time.
1:04:47SPEAKERI mean, I think that's the goal, right?
1:04:49SPEAKERIs to have it be, be not an intrusive thing.
1:04:52SPEAKERI'm going to go and tell you, I haven't thought about the island since we talked about it
1:04:57SPEAKERon the podcast last time, about a year ago, like it just, it just becomes invisible.
1:05:01SPEAKERYeah.
1:05:02SPEAKERBut I mean, again, the aesthetic preferences aside, I'm just curious if that's something
1:05:05SPEAKERthey're actually still pursuing.
1:05:06SPEAKERCause that seems like a pretty significant challenge.
1:05:08SPEAKERI mean, maybe it's, I think the reason they couldn't do it on LCDs is because the grid
1:05:11SPEAKERwould show up on your pictures, which you don't want.
1:05:13SPEAKERSo I don't, I don't know.
1:05:15SPEAKERI would rather have the better camera than have it and have the visible hole than the,
1:05:19SPEAKERthan the alternative.
1:05:20SPEAKERYeah.
1:05:21SPEAKERSo anyway, yeah, it's, it's a 18 pro processor.
1:05:27SPEAKERIt's got the same aluminum internals for heat dissipation that the 16 has.
1:05:32SPEAKERIt's the six core CPU, six core GPU and 16 neural core neural engine.
1:05:38SPEAKERAnd the big thing on the camera, it has the same camera button as the iPhone 16 with the
1:05:42SPEAKERTaptic thing.
1:05:44SPEAKERIt has the same 48 megapixel ultra wide camera.
1:05:48SPEAKERNow it still has the, the two X camera and the, and the the telephone or the five X zoom,
1:05:57SPEAKERthe, the, the non pro version gets the five X tetra prison zoom, which is nice.
1:06:03SPEAKERSo you say it used to be, you had a four X zoom, I think on the pro and the non on the
1:06:07SPEAKERpro non-max and a five X zoom on the max.
1:06:11SPEAKERSo that's a good thing.
1:06:13SPEAKERThe cameras support 4k 120 Hertz Dolby vision.
1:06:16SPEAKERThat seems insane.
1:06:19SPEAKERPeople people are oddly using them, are using them in weird ways for like stuff that I wouldn't
1:06:23SPEAKERexpect.
1:06:24SPEAKEROkay, sure.
1:06:25SPEAKERAnd I was thinking like videos of your kids dance recital, probably not necessary, but
1:06:30SPEAKERif people are doing like weird time-lapse or weird exposure stuff, I can see that.
1:06:34SPEAKERWell, I know a couple of people who've done like indie films where their B unit cameras
1:06:39SPEAKERare like fancy iPhones, right?
1:06:42SPEAKERThe problem is you have to have the, like the Dolby vision and the raw, like the high
1:06:48SPEAKERquality video coming out of these cameras takes up so much space.
1:06:52SPEAKERYou have to use the 512 gigabyte terabyte gigabyte version.
1:06:56SPEAKERYes.
1:06:57SPEAKERI believe that.
1:06:58SPEAKERAnd, and also like transferring the footage becomes a real problem.
1:07:01SPEAKERAt that point the, the, it has studio quality mics is what they're calling them for studio
1:07:08SPEAKERquality mics.
1:07:09SPEAKERNow I know what I think of as a studio quality mic and I feel like, yeah, it's a little bit
1:07:16SPEAKERbigger than that.
1:07:17SPEAKERBut I think what they mean is they've reduced the noise floor that the, that the mics pick
1:07:22SPEAKERup and they're doing a lot of processing on it now, which we talked about a little bit
1:07:25SPEAKERin the, in the, with the audio mix stuff in the camera now.
1:07:30SPEAKERBut, but I think better input into that is giving better output in the pros is the idea.
1:07:36SPEAKERI'm a little skeptical of that.
1:07:38SPEAKERYeah.
1:07:40SPEAKERAnd that's pretty much it.
1:07:42SPEAKERYeah.
1:07:43SPEAKEROkay.
1:07:44SPEAKERIt seems fine.
1:07:45SPEAKERYeah.
1:07:46SPEAKERThey made new phones.
1:07:47SPEAKERIt's kind of boring.
1:07:48SPEAKERLike the iPhone 16 gets really good colors, bright, like fun colors.
1:07:52SPEAKERAnd this is like titanium black, white, and beige, tight bazier titanium.
1:07:56SPEAKERHey, that's cause it's a professional phone.
1:07:59SPEAKERI got to keep it professional.
1:08:01SPEAKERCool.
1:08:02SPEAKERThe one thing I didn't remember to check is if it has wifi seven, I assume that they do.
1:08:06SPEAKEROh yeah.
1:08:07SPEAKERThat's we've, we've got to, got to do our due diligence on wifi seven support.
1:08:12SPEAKERWhen we broke off here for a minute and then I forgot to check it.
1:08:15SPEAKERSo this is on me.
1:08:17SPEAKERYes.
1:08:18SPEAKER16 and 16 pro are both wifi seven.
1:08:20SPEAKERYes.
1:08:21SPEAKERYeah.
1:08:22SPEAKERConfirmed.
1:08:23SPEAKERYeah.
1:08:24SPEAKERGood, good job.
1:08:25SPEAKERSo the, all the other stuff for the pro is AI tied features and that stuff's not available
1:08:31SPEAKERat lunch.
1:08:32SPEAKERSo I do, I have to say I've been running the iOS 18 beta for a minute and I do like the
1:08:38SPEAKERdark and light mode for the icons on the home screen, but more than anything, I like being
1:08:43SPEAKERable to just turn off the labels for the icons and have a big giant icons.
1:08:48SPEAKERYeah.
1:08:49SPEAKERThat's nice and clean.
1:08:50SPEAKERFeels good.
1:08:51SPEAKERFeels good.
1:08:52SPEAKERThe automatic icon changing thing is not as useful.
1:08:55SPEAKERIt's not as cool as it is made to be made to look in the, in the trailer.
1:08:59SPEAKERYeah.
1:09:00SPEAKERIt's only works on some stuff.
1:09:01SPEAKERI can just mess with your familiarity of what's what it does indeed.
1:09:04SPEAKEROkay.
1:09:05SPEAKERSo other stuff that they did a new Apple watch, I think a surprise, right?
1:09:10SPEAKERYeah.
1:09:11SPEAKERI think it was a surprise that it was at this event.
1:09:13SPEAKERLike people were expecting it this fall, but usually at a separate event a little later,
1:09:17SPEAKERlike in October,
1:09:18SPEAKERUsually it's in October, I think.
1:09:19SPEAKERAnd so it's the Apple watch 10.
1:09:21SPEAKERYeah.
1:09:22SPEAKERThis is the thing I have been waiting for and was kind of all set to get one until something
1:09:27SPEAKERwe'll get to.
1:09:28SPEAKERWell, so it's the new S 10 SIP, which is their watch specific processor.
1:09:34SPEAKERIt's a system in package.
1:09:36SPEAKERIs that what they,
1:09:37SPEAKERYeah, I think so.
1:09:38SPEAKERI don't actually, I don't know what SIP stands for in this context.
1:09:41SPEAKERI think that's what they call that, which seems, yeah, system and package is what they
1:09:45SPEAKERcall that.
1:09:46SPEAKERSeems maybe, maybe a little unnecessary when SOC already exists.
1:09:50SPEAKERBut,
1:09:51SPEAKERWell, I think the idea is it's more than one chip, it's a disaggregated thing.
1:09:54SPEAKERYes.
1:09:55SPEAKERThat's correct.
1:09:56SPEAKEROkay.
1:09:57SPEAKERSo it's, it's thinner with a bigger screen, 42 millimeter and 46 millimeter sizes.
1:10:01SPEAKERThe 46 millimeter replaces the old 44 millimeter size.
1:10:05SPEAKERI think it was 45.
1:10:06SPEAKERYeah.
1:10:07SPEAKERIt was 45 for a while.
1:10:08SPEAKERYeah.
1:10:09SPEAKERThey went up the series eight, they went to 45 millimeter, not to quibble over one millimeter.
1:10:13SPEAKERBut the gist is, they're still compatible with the same size band.
1:10:17SPEAKERSo if you have the old small band, old big band, you can move your bands forward with
1:10:20SPEAKERthe, with the new one.
1:10:21SPEAKERYeah.
1:10:22SPEAKERWhich is interesting because one of the rumors was they were going to a magnetic band clasp
1:10:25SPEAKERthis time and they apparently did not.
1:10:28SPEAKERSo there's a magnetic band clasp on the new titanium, uh, uh, uh, Milanese loop, I believe.
1:10:35SPEAKEROkay.
1:10:36SPEAKEROh, sorry.
1:10:37SPEAKERYou know what?
1:10:38SPEAKERClasp is not the right word.
1:10:39SPEAKERThe watch face itself was rumored to be going magnetic this time.
1:10:42SPEAKERYeah.
1:10:43SPEAKERI like it.
1:10:44SPEAKERI like that it's physical.
1:10:45SPEAKERThere's a magnetic component to the existing one too, but I think, I think it's probably
1:10:48SPEAKERbest for it to have that physical block there.
1:10:51SPEAKERIf I'm buying a thousand dollar watch, I want it to be physically attached, not, you know,
1:10:56SPEAKERhow do magnets work?
1:10:57SPEAKERYeah.
1:10:58SPEAKERUh, so, okay.
1:10:59SPEAKERUh, old bands are compatible at the screen.
1:11:03SPEAKERIt goes up to 2000 nits, which has been the case for the last like two, three generations.
1:11:07SPEAKERI think, um, they compare it on the store page to the three in size.
1:11:12SPEAKERSo they can say the screen is 75% bigger because the three still had the big edge.
1:11:17SPEAKERWhen the headlines first came out for this thing, cause the watch was the thing I was
1:11:20SPEAKERwaiting for here.
1:11:21SPEAKERCause I used the watch so much.
1:11:22SPEAKERI was like, you know what?
1:11:23SPEAKERThe watch might be the thing I treat myself to trading in for every couple of years.
1:11:26SPEAKERYeah.
1:11:27SPEAKERAnd the headlines were all like 30% bigger screen.
1:11:29SPEAKERI was like, Holy shit.
1:11:30SPEAKERCause you know, again, the rumors have been like way thinner, way bigger screen, like
1:11:33SPEAKERway more real estate for screen, et cetera, et cetera.
1:11:36SPEAKERLike, wow, they did it.
1:11:37SPEAKERAnd then yes, it turns out it's one millimeter bigger than the one I have.
1:11:41SPEAKERYeah.
1:11:42SPEAKERWell, the, the, it does look substantially thinner, but I don't trust their photos on
1:11:46SPEAKERthis stuff.
1:11:47SPEAKERCause they're the way the edges work on this, on the watch specifically, it looks thinner
1:11:51SPEAKERthan it is in real life often.
1:11:53SPEAKERYeah.
1:11:54SPEAKERUm, it has new finishes, uh, on the aluminum one.
1:11:57SPEAKERThere's a glossy back black one that they polished the aluminum and then put a black
1:12:01SPEAKERshiny coating on it, which I think actually looks pretty cool.
1:12:04SPEAKERUh, I'm, I'm curious to see how it ages.
1:12:07SPEAKERCause often the anodized ones would scratch and look kind of crappy after a little bit
1:12:11SPEAKERof time.
1:12:12SPEAKERYeah.
1:12:13SPEAKERDo you know, are they still doing matte black as well?
1:12:14SPEAKEROr does this replace?
1:12:15SPEAKERThis replaces the matte black, I believe.
1:12:16SPEAKERSo it's, it's matte aluminum.
1:12:17SPEAKERYeah.
1:12:18SPEAKERI wonder, I wonder if that was not selling much, the matte black.
1:12:21SPEAKERI think like, I think people have skipped to the matte black because it, it, it scratched
1:12:27SPEAKERand showed the silver underneath is my best, uh, the titanium one, which replaces the stainless
1:12:33SPEAKERsteel models, which were the old shiny ones are 700 bucks.
1:12:38SPEAKERAnd it has three titanium finishes too that, that are like oddly not shiny or not as shiny
1:12:45SPEAKERas I would expect.
1:12:46SPEAKERUm, I'm, I'm like, it's interesting cause the price on that titanium normal Apple watch
1:12:54SPEAKERversus the Apple watch ultra they're in the same price range, basically.
1:12:58SPEAKERIt's like a hundred dollars off to get the non ultra version.
1:13:02SPEAKERBut the ultra one comes with a lot of other stuff that seems like it's probably worth
1:13:07SPEAKERmaking the pain, the extra hundred bucks if you're in that price range.
1:13:10SPEAKERYeah.
1:13:11SPEAKERUm, I don't know.
1:13:13SPEAKERIt's, it's the thinner, lighter watches is compelling, I guess.
1:13:17SPEAKERSo yeah, but not thinner and lighter enough, I think, or I mean, well, we'll get to it.
1:13:21SPEAKERThey dropped a feature that let's finish reading the features.
1:13:25SPEAKERYeah.
1:13:26SPEAKERUm, I, I, I apologize.
1:13:27SPEAKERThe titanium is shiny.
1:13:29SPEAKERIt looks not shiny in some of the pictures, but it is a shiny titanium finish.
1:13:34SPEAKEROkay.
1:13:35SPEAKERUm, let's see the water.
1:13:37SPEAKERIt has water temperature, temperature sensor.
1:13:40SPEAKERThe Apple watch has a depth sensor, which I think is new this year.
1:13:43SPEAKERIt's not the normal one.
1:13:45SPEAKEROh, right.
1:13:46SPEAKERThat came, that trickled down from the ultra.
1:13:48SPEAKERI think that was an ultra feature that might've had one last year, but they take down their
1:13:52SPEAKERold pages.
1:13:53SPEAKERAnd anyway, it's not like the certified for scuba diving depth sensor.
1:13:58SPEAKERIt's more for workouts.
1:13:59SPEAKERUm, it's water resistant and all the same stuff that it usually is.
1:14:03SPEAKERThey added sleep apnea sensing for everything series nine and newer and ultra two and newer.
1:14:10SPEAKERUh, that's pending FDA approval later this fall.
1:14:13SPEAKERThey're hoping that's cool.
1:14:14SPEAKERI still, I can't, I just can't bring myself to sleep on my watch, but that's cool.
1:14:17SPEAKEROh, I sleep with mine on.
1:14:19SPEAKERI like, I like it telling me whether I've slept well or not.
1:14:22SPEAKERCause then I, then I have, then I have something that tells me whether I feel bad because I'm
1:14:26SPEAKERjust like the, the meat body is falling apart or because I didn't sleep well the night before.
1:14:31SPEAKERYeah.
1:14:32SPEAKERUh, they don't have the blood oxygen sensor back.
1:14:35SPEAKERYeah.
1:14:36SPEAKERYeah.
1:14:37SPEAKERThis was, this was the thing.
1:14:38SPEAKERAnd it's not like I use the blood ox all the time.
1:14:39SPEAKERI've used it a few times, but when you consider how, how little the improvement they've made
1:14:43SPEAKERon the thickness and screen size, I mean like there is an improvement over the recent models,
1:14:47SPEAKERbut just barely.
1:14:48SPEAKERAnd then, and then you look at like, okay, I'd also be dropping a feature like that just
1:14:51SPEAKERfeels bad.
1:14:52SPEAKERI think I'm going to hold off actually.
1:14:54SPEAKERWell, for me, the blood ox, I cared a lot less about in the pre COVID days.
1:15:00SPEAKERYeah, sure.
1:15:01SPEAKERWhen I was sick and my wife was like, I want to make sure you're still alive, but I also
1:15:06SPEAKERdon't want to be anywhere near you.
1:15:09SPEAKERI just shared my blood ox information and kept the watch on and she was able to tell
1:15:13SPEAKERif like regularly it was regularly checking and it's kind of useful feature.
1:15:19SPEAKERLike a lot of this stuff, like it's something that you don't care about until you need it.
1:15:22SPEAKERAnd then, and then it's nice to have it.
1:15:24SPEAKERAnd you wouldn't, you would no longer have it here.
1:15:26SPEAKERSo it just, it just feels bad to give up a relatively major health feature.
1:15:29SPEAKERI think that's it.
1:15:31SPEAKERAnd for people who don't know, there was a, basically they got a patent infringement case
1:15:38SPEAKERfrom a company who then accused them of poaching all their high level staff and you know, all
1:15:44SPEAKERthis bad stuff.
1:15:45SPEAKERYeah.
1:15:46SPEAKERPresumably there's some meat to that because that's been going on for a good long while.
1:15:50SPEAKERIt's been a couple of years now and they seem, seems like they're not going to, nobody's
1:15:55SPEAKERblinking yet.
1:15:56SPEAKERSo maybe, maybe the blood ox sensor will come back at some point in the future.
1:16:00SPEAKERBut I would rather have blood ox than a depth sensor because like I'm, if I'm in a pool,
1:16:04SPEAKERI know how deep it is.
1:16:08SPEAKERThe sleep apnea thing, like I said, coming later that's pretty much it.
1:16:13SPEAKERIt's the pricing is about the same as it always was.
1:16:19SPEAKERI'm going to say it starts at three.
1:16:22SPEAKERI can't find it in my notes.
1:16:25SPEAKERStarts at, what is going on here?
1:16:29SPEAKERGoogle docs starts at 400 bucks for the aluminum one and 700 bucks for the titanium one.
1:16:35SPEAKERThe price goes up or down based on the band you choose.
1:16:39SPEAKERNot anything else at this point.
1:16:42SPEAKERI'm kind of like, I don't know, I was, I was, I was close cause I'm on a seven and it's
1:16:48SPEAKERseems like this is the last viable year for a trade in on the seven, but maybe the seven
1:16:52SPEAKERwill just become my, my sleep tracker or when, when we move on anyway.
1:16:59SPEAKERLet's see.
1:17:00SPEAKERLast thing.
1:17:01SPEAKERApple watch, two more, two more things.
1:17:02SPEAKERThere's Apple watch ultra two, and then there's AirPods, Apple watch ultra two gets an update
1:17:06SPEAKERwith new colors and it gets the sleep apnea tracking.
1:17:10SPEAKERThat's pretty much it.
1:17:11SPEAKERIt's still the S nine SIP.
1:17:16SPEAKERNothing else new, still, still got the flat face.
1:17:19SPEAKERStill has the flat face.
1:17:20SPEAKERI like the flat face.
1:17:21SPEAKERI do too.
1:17:22SPEAKERI keep hoping the flat face will come to the regular cause I don't want to spend ultra
1:17:25SPEAKERmoney.
1:17:26SPEAKERI think it's probably not going to happen cause they just redid the case.
1:17:28SPEAKERSo that means we're probably in the new one for the foreseeable future.
1:17:32SPEAKERI wonder if the next ultra, if next year there'll be an updated ultra with a new body design
1:17:36SPEAKERthough, given that the, the, the S 10 has a new body.
1:17:41SPEAKERYeah.
1:17:42SPEAKERMaybe.
1:17:43SPEAKERBut if I did want to spend ultra money, which I super don't, it might be a little too big
1:17:46SPEAKERfor me.
1:17:47SPEAKERI think it's huge.
1:17:48SPEAKERYeah.
1:17:49SPEAKERI've, I've tried them on a couple of times and it's, it's pretty, my wrist is, I have
1:17:54SPEAKERa dainty wrist and it is not a dainty watch.
1:17:58SPEAKERIt's way bigger than like my Omega, my Speedmaster, any of that stuff, which is a pretty big watch.
1:18:03SPEAKERAnyway.
1:18:04SPEAKERAirPods.
1:18:05SPEAKERThis is the first time we've had an AirPod update in a minute.
1:18:08SPEAKEROh really?
1:18:09SPEAKERYeah.
1:18:10SPEAKERHuh?
1:18:11SPEAKERYeah.
1:18:12SPEAKERYou don't say.
1:18:13SPEAKERYeah.
1:18:14SPEAKERAirPods max, which is the over the year headphone that's 550 bucks and has been, was expensive
1:18:19SPEAKERwhen they launched.
1:18:20SPEAKERAnd I guess thanks to the miracle of inflation feels less expensive now than it did then
1:18:25SPEAKERis in new colors.
1:18:27SPEAKERIt's still the same H1 processor that it had before.
1:18:30SPEAKERAnd it's still the USB-C and now it's USB-C connection instead of, I think it was a lightning
1:18:38SPEAKERconnection before, which is that, that's a good change.
1:18:41SPEAKERDoesn't seem worth an upgrade.
1:18:42SPEAKERIt seems like a, this seems like a half step.
1:18:44SPEAKERI'm surprised it doesn't use the H2 processor that's in the AirPod Pro 2 and in the new
1:18:49SPEAKERAirPods 4, which we'll talk about in a sec.
1:18:52SPEAKERAnd the Pro 2s have all been out for a while, right?
1:18:54SPEAKERThe Pro 2s have been out since like 2021 or 2022.
1:18:57SPEAKERLike I bought Pro 2s a long time ago, like I'm getting, I'm starting to hit, I'm not
1:19:02SPEAKERhaving real battery problems, but I'm having battery degradation.
1:19:05SPEAKERLike I'm seeing, I'm noticing the battery doesn't last as long as they used to because
1:19:09SPEAKERthey've been out for so long.
1:19:12SPEAKERIt still feels like an incredible amount of money to spend on this.
1:19:15SPEAKERAnd I, my guess is that there's better stuff in the Beats line that uses the newer processor.
1:19:21SPEAKERIt does have active noise cancellation now, two times better active noise cancellation,
1:19:27SPEAKERand they're comparing it to the AirPod Pro 1 and the AirPods 4, which don't seal, which
1:19:34SPEAKERfeels like a asterisk on an asterisk versus the AirPod Pro 2, which have quite good noise
1:19:41SPEAKERcancellation.
1:19:42SPEAKERAnyway.
1:19:43SPEAKERI don't think, I don't think most people, I think, I think those are a specialty product.
1:19:50SPEAKERAirPods 4 are new, it's the update to the, this is the non-sealing, rest in your ears
1:19:56SPEAKERkind of hard plastic style AirPod.
1:20:00SPEAKERThey're $130 for the base model, if you pay $50 more, you get active noise canceling.
1:20:05SPEAKERThe active noise canceling version also comes with the wireless charging case that works
1:20:09SPEAKERwith key chargers, MagSafe watch or phone chargers.
1:20:15SPEAKERAnd that case is the only one that plays the sound when you use Find My to find it when
1:20:19SPEAKERyou've lost your AirPods, which it turns out is an incredibly powerful feature.
1:20:25SPEAKERAnd they have added the stem control, so the AirPod Pros 2 have like a little touch area
1:20:31SPEAKERon the stem that you can click or swipe, and that lets you do volume control and pausing
1:20:36SPEAKERand playback and stuff like that.
1:20:39SPEAKERThey also have the new UWB chip, so you can find them more precisely, the ultra wide band.
1:20:47SPEAKERAnd the, I'm really curious how the active noise canceling works on these since they're
1:20:50SPEAKERjust hard plastic resting in your ear holes.
1:20:52SPEAKEROkay, so this is my, this was my question because I saw $180 on these for active noise
1:20:57SPEAKERcanceling.
1:20:58SPEAKERAnd I think I, I think I'm just about at the end of the road for my wired Bose noise canceling
1:21:02SPEAKERheadphones that I've had for 10 years.
1:21:04SPEAKERLike I'm just kind of tired of dealing with cords on an airplane.
1:21:08SPEAKERSo I was like, these are brand new and 180 seems fairly reasonable, but I've never actually
1:21:12SPEAKERworn a pair of AirPods period before, so I didn't realize there was actually like a difference
1:21:17SPEAKERbetween the regular and the pro on like fit and materials and how they rest in the ear
1:21:21SPEAKERand all that stuff.
1:21:22SPEAKERWell, the pros are like in ears with the, with the little plastic, the soft plastic
1:21:26SPEAKERkind of silicone-y right tips that stick in there.
1:21:30SPEAKERRight.
1:21:31SPEAKERAnd the regulars do not have any such thing.
1:21:32SPEAKERThe regulars just kind of nestle into the crotch of your ear with the noise point parting
1:21:38SPEAKERto the whole, the, I have a really hard time getting the hard AirPods and ear pods when
1:21:44SPEAKERthey used to not be wired to ever stay in your, depending on what your last phone is,
1:21:50SPEAKERyou might have a pair just sitting in a drawer someplace cause they used to ship them with
1:21:54SPEAKERthe phone and then they stopped.
1:21:57SPEAKERThe thing I'll say is the active can, so the AirPod pro twos are often on sale for 190
1:22:05SPEAKERbucks cause they are 250 bucks.
1:22:08SPEAKERThat's practically the same price.
1:22:10SPEAKERAnd it's like you said, they're quite old now though.
1:22:12SPEAKERSo you kind of wonder if they're due for an update.
1:22:14SPEAKERWell, I'm going to tell you they're the exact same processor that's in this.
1:22:17SPEAKERSo yeah, I don't know.
1:22:21SPEAKERThey support all the adaptive stuff they, they the new AirPods 4 support the head gesture
1:22:27SPEAKERstuff that you only get with the AirPod pro twos, I think.
1:22:32SPEAKERAnd that's, that's pretty much it.
1:22:34SPEAKEROkay.
1:22:35SPEAKERThat's good to know.
1:22:36SPEAKERThat's kind of crazy that they are still trying to differentiate product lines with the kind
1:22:40SPEAKERof silicone ear seal, unless, unless the argument is, Hey, there are earbuds that you might
1:22:44SPEAKERnot want to make a seal, which I guess I understand that.
1:22:46SPEAKERI think, I think there's, I think it's a preference thing because a lot of people don't like having
1:22:50SPEAKERthe sensation of the thing stuck in their ear.
1:22:52SPEAKERYeah, I guess that makes sense.
1:22:53SPEAKERBut even, even the, like the $30 sound core earbuds that I bought to just to exercise
1:22:58SPEAKERin have got silicone, replaceable silicone tips.
1:23:01SPEAKERYeah.
1:23:02SPEAKERSo the Apple does the silicone tips are replaceable.
1:23:05SPEAKERI actually buy comply foam ones for mine.
1:23:08SPEAKERAnd yeah, I, I don't, I think the only reason that these two products are separate is that
1:23:14SPEAKERsome people like the ones that stick in their ears or there's enough biological diversity
1:23:19SPEAKERin people's ear shapes that they can't make a one size fits all plastic one that nestles
1:23:24SPEAKERin.
1:23:25SPEAKERYeah.
1:23:26SPEAKERIn this case, I meant more just for the noise canceling.
1:23:27SPEAKERCause you know, without, without a good physical seal and your ear sound is going to get in,
1:23:31SPEAKEReven if you're no matter how many inverse waveforms you're playing.
1:23:34SPEAKERThat's, that's the thing pointing, playing the inverse waveforms when there's, when there's
1:23:39SPEAKERno, when there's leakage has traditionally not worked very well.
1:23:42SPEAKERSo I wonder if they're doing something weird and projecting out too.
1:23:46SPEAKERRight.
1:23:47SPEAKERI don't know.
1:23:48SPEAKERWe'll, we'll, we'll see when people start testing them.
1:23:50SPEAKERYeah.
1:23:51SPEAKERAnd I think that's it.
1:23:52SPEAKERI think that's the last thing that you hearing aid thing.
1:23:55SPEAKERYeah.
1:23:56SPEAKERI don't think they talked about this in the keynote, but I think this is separate.
1:23:58SPEAKERYeah.
1:23:59SPEAKERThe AirPods pro two were just approved as an over the counter hearing aid device by
1:24:04SPEAKERthe FDA.
1:24:05SPEAKERYeah.
1:24:06SPEAKERThe FDA two years ago opened up over the counter hearing aids to people.
1:24:11SPEAKERAnd basically the idea is that when they flip the app on for this, you'll download a special
1:24:17SPEAKERapp.
1:24:18SPEAKERIt'll give you a hearing test and then it will reconfigure the transparency and adaptive
1:24:24SPEAKERtransparency stuff to actually correct your, your hearing in the ranges that it's lost.
1:24:30SPEAKERYeah.
1:24:31SPEAKERI'm, I'm curious how well this is going to work.
1:24:32SPEAKERI have, I have a family member with some Bluetooth hearing aids that they absolutely despise.
1:24:37SPEAKEREverybody I know that has Bluetooth hearing aids absolutely despises them.
1:24:41SPEAKERYes.
1:24:42SPEAKERI think this is why Apple, I think this is why the FDA opened up hearing aids to over
1:24:46SPEAKERthe counter is to increase competition and probably because there was a lot of lobbying.
1:24:50SPEAKERYeah.
1:24:51SPEAKERSo anyway.
1:24:52SPEAKERThat's cool.
1:24:53SPEAKERYeah.
1:24:54SPEAKERSo that's, that's an Apple event.
1:24:56SPEAKERThat's a PlayStation event, a lot of events, thousands of dollars worth of products.
1:25:01SPEAKEREverything's expensive, Brad.
1:25:03SPEAKERIt sure is.
1:25:04SPEAKERRemember when the iPhone came out and everybody's like, Oh man, nobody's ever paid $600 for
1:25:08SPEAKERa phone because that's just stupid that the launch iPhone costs $600 or granted that was
1:25:13SPEAKERnot far off from the PS3 that costs $600, but I use my, I use my phone every day, man.
1:25:21SPEAKERYeah.
1:25:22SPEAKERThey let's see, they didn't, there's a bunch of deals.
1:25:27SPEAKERIf you're buying a phone, if you're listening to this, the phone pre-order day already started,
1:25:31SPEAKERbut they're doing a thousand dollars off for people on unlimited on AT&T T-Mobile and Verizon
1:25:37SPEAKERand I think boost and then the Apple's doing their normal stuff as well.
1:25:44SPEAKERNot the deals weren't quite as good on it for once.
1:25:46SPEAKERThe deals on the carriers were better than the Apple deals when I looked at them.
1:25:49SPEAKERBut by now you probably, if you care about that, you probably already bought a phone.
1:25:52SPEAKERYeah.
1:25:53SPEAKERYeah.
1:25:54SPEAKERJust, I mean, also they're just talking about the, like the theme of this episode, like
1:25:56SPEAKERthe expense, the increasing expense of stuff like I've pretty much started strategically
1:26:01SPEAKERtiming my upgrades, like we said, with the watch based on trade in value, because like
1:26:06SPEAKERthat's just like priced into my upgrade.
1:26:09SPEAKERTiming at this point is like, I want to make sure I get the next thing before the thing
1:26:12SPEAKERI've got is worthless because taking 150 to $300 off the price of the next thing is pretty
1:26:17SPEAKERsignificant.
1:26:18SPEAKERWell, that's the thing.
1:26:20SPEAKERAnd I'd like my trade in on my 15 pro max won't ever be higher than it is right now,
1:26:27SPEAKERbut also this feels like the shittiest upgrade ever.
1:26:30SPEAKERRight.
1:26:31SPEAKERWell, that's the thing you have to, you have to balance how much you're going to get back
1:26:33SPEAKERwith how much the new thing is even adding.
1:26:36SPEAKERYeah.
1:26:37SPEAKERAnd do I want to, like, honestly it's, do I want to take the three hours to move everything
1:26:40SPEAKERover and get the phone set up the way I like it again?
1:26:43SPEAKERYeah.
1:26:44SPEAKERLast time I upgraded, I did the, I did the like, Hey, put the two phones near each other
1:26:48SPEAKERand let them sit for a while.
1:26:50SPEAKERYeah.
1:26:51SPEAKERAnd it just, everything was there.
1:26:52SPEAKEREven like, it was like an encrypted backup and even brought over like passwords and two
1:26:55SPEAKERfactor stuff.
1:26:56SPEAKERLike it was all there.
1:26:57SPEAKERThere's always a couple of things that aren't quite right.
1:26:59SPEAKERLike I worry about the passkey stuff changing, although that's all in one password now.
1:27:03SPEAKERAnd the the, the, the Google, the Google not pass keys, passkey things that they safe lock
1:27:11SPEAKERor whatever it's called.
1:27:12SPEAKERIt's always a problem.
1:27:13SPEAKERAnyway.
1:27:14SPEAKERYeah.
1:27:15SPEAKERYeah.
1:27:16SPEAKERSo yeah, I guess that'll do it for us.
1:27:17SPEAKERYeah.
1:27:18SPEAKERYes.
1:27:19SPEAKERAs always, thanks to everybody who listens to the show.
1:27:20SPEAKERThanks for supporting the show.
1:27:22SPEAKERYes.
1:27:23SPEAKERIf you would like to find out how to support our show, which is a listener supported podcast,
1:27:26SPEAKERthat means we wouldn't be here without you.
1:27:28SPEAKERThe listeners would not, you can go to patreon.com/techpod.
1:27:32SPEAKERIt's patreon.com/techpod and join the ranks of fabulous supporters and get access to the
1:27:38SPEAKERtech pod discord, which is full of beautiful nerds who talk about beautiful nerdy stuff.
1:27:43SPEAKERYou can also get access to the patron exclusive episode, which we have to record here before
1:27:47SPEAKERtoo, too long.
1:27:48SPEAKERGot a couple of weeks, I guess.
1:27:50SPEAKERAnd talk about how I broke this keyboard.
1:27:53SPEAKERYeah.
1:27:54SPEAKERI, so I pried all my keys off and put them in my ultra ultrasonic cleaner.
1:27:59SPEAKERI'm going to go and tell you, it was horrifying.
1:28:03SPEAKERAnd then fantastic.
1:28:04SPEAKERI want to make a video for PC world, but my keyboard's not gross enough anymore, so that's
1:28:09SPEAKERa good thing.
1:28:10SPEAKERYeah.
1:28:11SPEAKERBut I want to make the video.
1:28:12SPEAKERI should have recorded it anyway.
1:28:13SPEAKERSure enough.
1:28:14SPEAKERIt was trying to clean a couple of the keys on this keyboard.
1:28:17SPEAKERAnd boy are these Apple keyboards not meant to be taken apart.
1:28:20SPEAKERWhy don't you just, okay.
1:28:21SPEAKERJust the real solution is don't eat at your computer.
1:28:26SPEAKERWell, or turn it upside down and shake it to get the crud out.
1:28:29SPEAKERUh, there's zero leeway or there's zero margin or gap between the housing of the keyboard
1:28:36SPEAKERand the keys.
1:28:37SPEAKERIsopropyl alcohol and a Q-tip is what I always use on those kinds of keyboard.
1:28:41SPEAKERAnyway, uh, Brad's travel tab key is going to haunt him now and remind him of mistakes
1:28:46SPEAKERmade in the past.
1:28:47SPEAKERUh, but you know what's not a mistake is supporting the show and we want to offer a very special
1:28:52SPEAKERthank you to our executive producer, to your patrons, including Andrew Slosky, Jordan Lippett,
1:28:58SPEAKERBunny Fiend, Twinkle Twinkie, David Allen, James Kammack and Pantheon makers of the HS3
1:29:04SPEAKERhigh speed 3d printer.
1:29:05SPEAKERThank you all so much.
1:29:07SPEAKERYeah.
1:29:08SPEAKERThank you.
1:29:09SPEAKERAnd I guess that'll do it for us this month.
1:29:10SPEAKERThis week.
1:29:11SPEAKERWe will be back next week.
1:29:13SPEAKERThis month.
1:29:14SPEAKERSeptember is over.
1:29:15SPEAKERWhoa.
1:29:16SPEAKER15 monthly format.
1:29:17SPEAKERUh, we'll be back next week with another episode of the tech pod.
1:29:18SPEAKERThanks for listening everybody.
1:29:20SPEAKERSee you all then.
1:29:21SPEAKERBye.
1:29:22SPEAKERBye.
1:29:23SPEAKERBye.
1:29:24SPEAKERBye.
1:29:25SPEAKERBye.
1:29:26SPEAKERBye.
1:29:27SPEAKERBye.