00:00SPEAKER- Okay, Adam, I made a benchmark for the first time
00:04SPEAKERin about 15 years.
00:06SPEAKER- You made a serious benchmark for serious people, for sure.
00:10SPEAKER- Yeah, we were doing a video for Falcon Northwest
00:14SPEAKERabout making a PC, like a PC for games,
00:18SPEAKERand I realized that there's not any real game dev,
00:22SPEAKERlike light bank benchmarks or compile benchmarks
00:24SPEAKERand stuff like that, so I loaded up UE5
00:28SPEAKERand built a little, I don't wanna call it,
00:32SPEAKERit's not like a full real life run for a light bake
00:35SPEAKERbecause that takes a kinda long time to run
00:38SPEAKERfor a real production level, but I made something
00:40SPEAKERthat I think is fairly representative
00:41SPEAKERof what a light bake looks like
00:44SPEAKERon a production video game, on a video game as video game.
00:47SPEAKER- Yeah, well, and to be fair, it's way more than I know
00:50SPEAKERabout any of that game development stuff.
00:52SPEAKERI know hardware, so it was interesting
00:54SPEAKERto see hardware used in a different way.
00:56SPEAKERIf people wanna see the video, it's up on PCWorld's
00:59SPEAKERYouTube channel now, sponsored by Falcon Northwest,
01:01SPEAKERthank you, it was a good, it was one of those perfect
01:05SPEAKERtesting kinda scenarios where Falcon Northwest
01:07SPEAKERwas like, hey, we'd love somebody to test
01:10SPEAKERthis game dev stuff on hardware.
01:12SPEAKERWe don't have anybody in house who knows game dev stuff,
01:15SPEAKERbut we were like, hey, Will, you know this stuff.
01:18SPEAKER- I was available, it turns out.
01:20SPEAKER- You were available, it worked out perfect.
01:22SPEAKERIt was a match made in heaven, but yeah,
01:26SPEAKERspecifically for Unreal Engine 5, right?
01:29SPEAKER- Yeah, so the thing, so we had two benchmarks that we used.
01:33SPEAKEROne is a map compile for the Anacrusis,
01:36SPEAKERwhich Chet was kind enough to let us use,
01:38SPEAKERwhich uses the tool chain that we built for the game,
01:41SPEAKERwhich includes like GPU light bakes.
01:43SPEAKERSo instead of doing those math calculations on the CPU,
01:47SPEAKERlike you would in the old days,
01:49SPEAKERor if you're really serious about fidelity,
01:51SPEAKERwe used a light mask plugin that was GPU accelerated
01:55SPEAKERon the Anacrusis so that we could do light bakes
01:59SPEAKERon all of the artists' computers.
02:00SPEAKERThat was the choice we made over there.
02:02SPEAKERThey made that choice before I started, for what it's worth.
02:05SPEAKERThe thing that we did with UE5,
02:09SPEAKER'cause I talk about it a little bit in the video,
02:11SPEAKERbut I think a lot of people think,
02:13SPEAKERoh, you don't need to do light bakes
02:15SPEAKERor anything like that anymore
02:15SPEAKERbecause people have ray tracing hardware
02:19SPEAKERthat can do real-time lighting and all this crazy stuff.
02:22SPEAKERAnd while that's true at the high end of the PC,
02:26SPEAKERit's a little bit less true
02:28SPEAKERthe further down the hardware, the platforms you get.
02:32SPEAKERSo when you're talking about an Xbox Series X or a PS5,
02:37SPEAKERyeah, you can do some dynamic lighting stuff,
02:39SPEAKERbut there's still probably some light bakes in there
02:41SPEAKERfor even the high-end hardware.
02:43SPEAKERWhen you're talking about something that's running
02:44SPEAKERon a Switch or an old GeForce 1080 or 2080 computer,
02:50SPEAKERthere's Lightmap City up in there.
02:52SPEAKERSo you still have to do that math,
02:54SPEAKERand it takes a long time, it turns out,
02:56SPEAKER'cause you're basically bouncing light
03:00SPEAKERfrom every light source to every surface in the game
03:02SPEAKERand figure out whether it should be light or dark
03:04SPEAKERbased on how far it is from the thing.
03:06SPEAKERAnd that's computationally expensive.
03:09SPEAKER- Well, and excuse my limited knowledge
03:12SPEAKERfor this kind of stuff,
03:13SPEAKERbut this is something that happens,
03:17SPEAKERit sounds like it happens at different points
03:19SPEAKERin the process of game development.
03:21SPEAKERYou're baking occasionally to just see how things happen,
03:25SPEAKERand then of course you're doing the final bake
03:27SPEAKERbefore it goes live, is that right?
03:30SPEAKER- Well, yeah, so everybody's process
03:32SPEAKERis different on this stuff.
03:33SPEAKERSo some studios will gray box out an entire level,
03:36SPEAKERand it'll just be flat-shaded generic boxes
03:40SPEAKERthat are to see how it plays.
03:43SPEAKER- So they'll build the content, the actual gameplay,
03:45SPEAKERand then worry about the lighting and stuff later.
03:48SPEAKER- Yeah, so if you look at, I think Half-Life,
03:51SPEAKERthis is the way Valve worked for old Half-Life games.
03:54SPEAKERThis is the way Bungie did the old Halo games,
03:58SPEAKERis they would gray box out the level
04:01SPEAKERand build those arenas so that the combat arena was fun.
04:04SPEAKERAnd then somebody would come through and say,
04:07SPEAKER"Okay, this big giant box is gonna be a big rock,
04:09SPEAKER"and this big giant box is gonna be a blah, blah, blah."
04:12SPEAKERAnd obviously this is an oversimplification,
04:15SPEAKER'cause if you're talking about a game
04:16SPEAKERthat has a big set piece level,
04:18SPEAKERthen they're going to know what that set piece is coming in.
04:22SPEAKERSo if they know that the Call of Duty Stalingrad level,
04:25SPEAKERwhere you're chained to the guy, you grab the gun,
04:28SPEAKERhe gets the second clip of ammo,
04:32SPEAKERthey know you're gonna run up a big hill,
04:33SPEAKERthey know you're gonna start at a boat dock,
04:35SPEAKERand they know that the end of that
04:36SPEAKERis gonna be charging some giant library
04:38SPEAKERor Stalingrad, like a civic building, right?
04:46SPEAKER- Classic.
04:47SPEAKER- Yeah, but if you're just running through corridors
04:50SPEAKERand stuff like that, then yeah, often they start gray boxed.
04:53SPEAKERAnd those will be full light,
04:54SPEAKERso there's no lighting calculations,
04:56SPEAKERit's just everything is lit, there's no shadows,
04:58SPEAKERthere's no dark spaces.
05:00SPEAKERAnd then as the levels get arted up,
05:03SPEAKERas the environment artists come in
05:04SPEAKERand turn the boxes into chairs and tables and bushes
05:07SPEAKERand shrubbery and cover and all that stuff,
05:10SPEAKERthen you start placing lights along with that process, right?
05:14SPEAKERAnd those lights determine what areas are light
05:17SPEAKERand which areas are dark,
05:17SPEAKERand that's when you start to need to bake those lights,
05:22SPEAKERbake those light maps.
05:23SPEAKER- And that's very computational intensive,
05:25SPEAKERwhich is why the hardware matters going into that.
05:29SPEAKERAnd that's what your benchmark was trying to get at, right?
05:32SPEAKERWas like, hey, what are the specific hardware requirements
05:36SPEAKERfor doing that specific kind of task, right?
05:40SPEAKER- Yeah, baking the light maps specifically
05:42SPEAKERis a thing that includes a lot of downtime.
05:44SPEAKERSo it's often like hit the button and walk away
05:48SPEAKERand go have lunch and then have a walk and then come back.
05:52SPEAKERAnd that means that that artist can't do anything else
05:55SPEAKERduring that time.
05:56SPEAKERNow, there are a bunch of ways around it.
05:57SPEAKERYou can build a really fast machine,
05:59SPEAKERlike our main environment artist had a giant Threadripper
06:02SPEAKERfor the early development process
06:04SPEAKERwhen they were doing this all in the CPU.
06:06SPEAKERAnd he ended up doing most of the early light bakes
06:09SPEAKERbecause he had the big giant CPU.
06:12SPEAKERWe switched to the GPU light mass
06:13SPEAKERso that everybody could do it as we got further along
06:15SPEAKERand had more environment artists working
06:17SPEAKERand made a lot of sense.
06:21SPEAKERThe other thing you can do
06:22SPEAKERis set up a dedicated workstation someplace
06:24SPEAKERthat's just the light bake machine.
06:25SPEAKERAnd you check in your updates and then you run a script
06:30SPEAKERthat says, hey, download the latest updates
06:31SPEAKERand then we'll bake the lights on the following maps.
06:33SPEAKERAnd it'll just do those sequentially
06:35SPEAKERand then upload them back to your Perforce or GitHub
06:39SPEAKERor whatever you use for code management and asset management.
06:42SPEAKER- Well, I found the video very enlightening
06:45SPEAKERas not a game developer.
06:46SPEAKERSo hopefully game developers will find it enlightening.
06:48SPEAKERI will say as of today when we're recording this,
06:51SPEAKERthe video is up on PCWorld's YouTube channel
06:54SPEAKERand we do have some developers in our full nerd discord
06:58SPEAKERwho are literally talking right now in a background window
07:01SPEAKERthat I'm seeing and they're talking about like, yeah,
07:03SPEAKERthe different use cases for different hardware.
07:06SPEAKERBut specifically one of them was asking about
07:10SPEAKERlike if that benchmark is gonna be included
07:13SPEAKERin our future CPU reviews.
07:15SPEAKERBecause we at PCWorld like to review components
07:18SPEAKERlike CPUs and GPUs and we're always looking for new ways
07:23SPEAKERto benchmark and test and help people.
07:26SPEAKERAnd one of the questions I had was,
07:28SPEAKERI mean, this is something that you had created personally,
07:31SPEAKERwhich is indicative, you feel is indicative
07:35SPEAKERof a certain specific part of game development.
07:40SPEAKERBut like sometimes I do worry that this is not a benchmark
07:43SPEAKERthat anyone could necessarily do on their own.
07:46SPEAKERIt's a lot of times it's like, hey, anybody could go down
07:47SPEAKERand download Cinebench and compare scores.
07:50SPEAKEROh, what is my score versus your score?
07:52SPEAKERIt's open nature, but if this is like something
07:54SPEAKERthat was developed in house,
07:56SPEAKERis that actually something beneficial to an end user?
08:00SPEAKER- So you can, on this one, you can,
08:04SPEAKERlike you have to be a registered Unreal developer,
08:06SPEAKERI think to download UE 5.3.2,
08:09SPEAKERwhich is what I used for the benchmark.
08:11SPEAKERThe assets that I used are all either assets
08:14SPEAKERthat ship with the default, with their default UI,
08:18SPEAKERlike their default package or things that I had paid,
08:23SPEAKERthat I had attained a license to by either clicking the,
08:26SPEAKERhey, this is free or, you know, like just like Epic does
08:30SPEAKERfor games that you download from the store,
08:31SPEAKERfor game developers, they also do asset packs
08:33SPEAKERthat are free all the time,
08:34SPEAKERand if you go through and mash the,
08:36SPEAKERlike I just mash those buttons every day.
08:38SPEAKERIt's just a thing I do in the morning.
08:40SPEAKERAnd then you end up getting a lot of like shrubbery
08:41SPEAKERand stuff like that.
08:42SPEAKERSo the shrubs in the buildings were part
08:44SPEAKERof one of those packages. - Shrubbery.
08:46SPEAKER- And I believe that we can distribute that.
08:49SPEAKERI'll have to double check, but Gordon has the benchmark
08:52SPEAKERand the instructions for running it.
08:54SPEAKERSo like you all are welcome to use it.
08:55SPEAKERLike it's your benchmark.
08:56SPEAKERI developed it for you all at this point.
08:59SPEAKER- Thank you.
09:00SPEAKERYeah, I guess for me though, yeah,
09:02SPEAKERit's like the question we had somebody in our Discord ask,
09:04SPEAKERlike, is this something I could download and run on my own
09:07SPEAKERso I can compare and contrast, you know?
09:10SPEAKER- They could.
09:11SPEAKERThey'd have to sign up to be an Unreal developer.
09:13SPEAKERSo yeah, it's available.
09:15SPEAKERIt's really, really intensely multi-threaded
09:19SPEAKERin a way that a lot of normal software that you use isn't.
09:22SPEAKERLike it's like up there with video encoding
09:23SPEAKERand raw photo processing and stuff like that.
09:26SPEAKER- Like watch out 'cause it could burn down your house.
09:28SPEAKER(upbeat music)
09:32SPEAKER(upbeat music continues)
09:56SPEAKER- Welcome to Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod.
09:58SPEAKERI'm Will.
09:59SPEAKER- And I'm Adam.
10:01SPEAKERAdam's here.
10:03SPEAKERAdam Patrick Murray of PC World is joining us today.
10:05SPEAKERBrad is on assignment this week.
10:07SPEAKERSo we are going to, we normally would do Q&A right now
10:13SPEAKERand Adam is good at answering A's.
10:15SPEAKERI listened to him do A's answering on the full nerd
10:17SPEAKERthis week, the PC World podcast.
10:19SPEAKER- Very nice.
10:20SPEAKER- But instead I wanted to ask,
10:23SPEAKERlike we're coming out of Computex season.
10:25SPEAKERSo Computex is a big PC trade show,
10:29SPEAKERPC specific trade show that happens
10:31SPEAKERat the end of spring every year in Taiwan.
10:34SPEAKERAdam you've been for what, a bunch of years at this point,
10:37SPEAKERfour or five years, six years?
10:39SPEAKER- Well, my first one was in 2019
10:41SPEAKERand then during the pandemic years, they didn't have them.
10:44SPEAKERSo I've only been to three.
10:46SPEAKERI can't remember how many Gordon has been to,
10:48SPEAKERbut it's a number of them for sure.
10:52SPEAKER- When I was at Maximum PC, we never went to Computex
10:55SPEAKERbecause it was kind of expensive to travel to Taiwan.
10:58SPEAKER- Yeah, that's a long flight.
10:59SPEAKERSome people don't like that long flight either.
11:01SPEAKER- Yeah, look, our international travel budget
11:04SPEAKERat Maximum PC was like $4, which wouldn't get us there.
11:07SPEAKERSo I think when I asked when our boss was like,
11:11SPEAKERyeah, if you can figure out a freighter you can stow away on,
11:14SPEAKERyou're welcome to go, we'll pay for the hotel
11:15SPEAKERonce you get there, but we're not paying for airplanes.
11:20SPEAKERBut yeah, so we've over the years,
11:22SPEAKERI think one of the things I loved about the work
11:26SPEAKERthat the Giant Bomb guys did and what we did at Tested
11:28SPEAKERand stuff like that was talking about,
11:31SPEAKERwe talked about the tech that comes out of this
11:33SPEAKERon the PC World podcast.
11:34SPEAKERBrad and I have talked about it a little bit.
11:36SPEAKERIt wasn't a huge consumer tech year
11:39SPEAKERin terms of big announcements.
11:42SPEAKERWe got a little bit of a hint about what's coming
11:44SPEAKERfrom the next Intel and AMD CPUs,
11:47SPEAKERbut that stuff wasn't really ready.
11:48SPEAKERThe Qualcomm Snapdragon Elite X SoC was announced
11:55SPEAKERand kind of released almost immediately thereafter
11:58SPEAKERand it's fine, I don't know that we're gonna do
12:01SPEAKERan episode about that over here.
12:02SPEAKERIf you wanna hear about it, we've talked about it
12:04SPEAKERon The Full Nerd a lot over the last couple of weeks.
12:06SPEAKER- Oh yes, Gordon has been diving in real deep.
12:10SPEAKERI know he's recording a video with his findings tomorrow,
12:13SPEAKERso I'm excited to see that. - Oh cool.
12:16SPEAKERBut yeah, I think that stuff's interesting
12:20SPEAKERand it comes and goes, but the thing that I love
12:22SPEAKERto talk about, too, is that each trade show
12:25SPEAKERhas kind of its own vibe, right?
12:27SPEAKER- Oh yeah, it really does.
12:28SPEAKER- CES, E3, we've talked about both of those a lot.
12:33SPEAKERNorm and Joey and I went to NAB a couple of times.
12:35SPEAKERThat was really fun and weird.
12:36SPEAKER- Oh yes, yes.
12:40SPEAKER- NAB is the National Association of Broadcasters
12:41SPEAKERwhere Canon and Nikon and all the people
12:44SPEAKERwho make studio cameras for the Tonight Show
12:47SPEAKERand your local news sell their stuff.
12:50SPEAKERSo we're walking in there and it's the same place
12:53SPEAKERthat CES happens.
12:54SPEAKERI don't think we really appreciated this,
12:56SPEAKERbut they have demo booths set up
12:59SPEAKERthat are like local news booths or like a sitcom booth
13:04SPEAKERso you can demo their production cameras live
13:06SPEAKERand it was just super fun.
13:08SPEAKERIt was a really fun, goofy thing to walk around and do.
13:10SPEAKER- They would hire models to just sit in these scenarios, too.
13:14SPEAKERThe funny thing is I used to review the cameras
13:18SPEAKERon smartphones years ago on one of our sister channels.
13:21SPEAKERI had a series called Last Cam Standing,
13:24SPEAKERwhich as a photographer I would go real deep
13:27SPEAKERinto the testing of smartphone cameras,
13:29SPEAKERwhich was real fun.
13:30SPEAKERI miss doing it, honestly.
13:31SPEAKERBut a couple times we attended NAB as a company
13:37SPEAKERjust to attend it, which was kind of cool
13:39SPEAKERto go to a trade show and not have to cover it.
13:40SPEAKERWe were just there to experience it, which was cool.
13:43SPEAKERBut I actually got to use a lot of those sets
13:45SPEAKERfor my camera testing at the same time,
13:48SPEAKERwhich, hey, it worked out.
13:50SPEAKERIt was perfect.
13:51SPEAKER- It's awesome.
13:51SPEAKERThey had studio lights set up
13:54SPEAKERand they had outdoor lights set up.
13:55SPEAKERIt was really, we went to that more or less as attendees
13:59SPEAKERrather than coverings.
14:00SPEAKERI think we made like three videos out of there,
14:02SPEAKERwhich was low for us.
14:04SPEAKERWe went to the coffee convention, which was amazing
14:06SPEAKERbecause that was where the best baristas in the world
14:09SPEAKERcome to show off the stuff that they're most awesome at
14:12SPEAKERand the espresso machine vendors and the brewed coffee.
14:17SPEAKERIt was fun.
14:17SPEAKERIt was a fun show that was like,
14:22SPEAKERduring the day you drank a ton of coffee
14:23SPEAKERand then in the night everybody went to bars
14:25SPEAKERand drank a whole lot of booze
14:27SPEAKER'cause you had to kind of even it out through the,
14:29SPEAKERor else your heart would explode on the third day.
14:32SPEAKERIt was a good time.
14:33SPEAKER- Well, actually, I guess,
14:35SPEAKERdo you think people understand the difference
14:36SPEAKERbetween a trade show and like a convention?
14:39SPEAKER'Cause I think a lot of people have been to,
14:41SPEAKERor have thought of like a San Diego Comic-Con
14:44SPEAKERor a TwitchCon or Anime Expo
14:46SPEAKERor something like that versus a trade show,
14:50SPEAKERwhich, I mean, even some trade shows are more,
14:53SPEAKERsome are more business and some are more like actual,
14:56SPEAKERlike coming to look at announcements like media coverage.
15:00SPEAKERDo you think people really know the difference?
15:02SPEAKER- Like, I don't, you know, 20 years ago
15:04SPEAKERI could have given you a really good definition
15:05SPEAKERabout whether you were there to sell stuff
15:07SPEAKERand whether you were looking at buyers for big markets
15:09SPEAKERand stuff like that.
15:10SPEAKERAnd I think now they've kind of merged,
15:12SPEAKERlike it depends on the market.
15:14SPEAKERLike NAB, definitely a trade show, right?
15:16SPEAKERLike people are there with their products.
15:18SPEAKERThere's like guys with suits on and they like,
15:21SPEAKERthey have a clip, they have a laptop
15:23SPEAKERthat they can take your order on
15:25SPEAKERor like it's an opportunity for you to engage
15:27SPEAKERwith the sales department of a big giant company.
15:30SPEAKERE3, when at E3, the last time I went to E3
15:33SPEAKERfelt like somewhere of a, somewhat of a split
15:36SPEAKERbetween a con and a trade show, right?
15:39SPEAKERIt was like-- - Yeah, for better or worse.
15:41SPEAKER- Yeah, but it was almost a giant press event more than,
15:45SPEAKERlike it's not like the Walmart buyer was walking around
15:47SPEAKERbeing like, okay, we're gonna buy 30,000 units
15:50SPEAKERof Assassin's Creed this year.
15:51SPEAKERWe're gonna buy 10,000 units of Halo Infinite.
15:54SPEAKERWe're, you know, like that's what that used to be like
15:58SPEAKERand I don't feel like that had happened at E3
16:01SPEAKERin a really long time.
16:02SPEAKER- Yeah, well, and I've never been,
16:04SPEAKERbut I've heard Gamescom like actually has separate days
16:07SPEAKERfor trade versus public, which is kind of interesting too.
16:12SPEAKER- That's what happened with E3 at the end too.
16:13SPEAKERLike the end of E3, the first couple of days
16:16SPEAKERwere press and industry, and then the last couple of days
16:18SPEAKERwere just like you'd buy a $50 ticket
16:20SPEAKERif you lived in LA and go.
16:22SPEAKERAnd Gamescom does work the same way.
16:24SPEAKER- Well, I can say, so for Computex,
16:26SPEAKERI mean, Computex, it's all about the computer,
16:29SPEAKERa lot of computational stuff,
16:31SPEAKERbut there are different levels in it from what I've seen.
16:35SPEAKERLike you have the consumer end,
16:36SPEAKERwhich is what we cover on PC World,
16:38SPEAKERbut there is plenty of stuff for server grade
16:41SPEAKERand large AI kind of stuff.
16:44SPEAKERLike I would say in a lot of ways,
16:46SPEAKERa lot of those companies were focused on B2B kind of stuff
16:50SPEAKERwhere we're there more for the consumer stuff.
16:52SPEAKERAnd Computex specifically, their last day
16:56SPEAKERis open to the public, but that's how they integrate
16:59SPEAKERsome people, and the crowds were definitely different.
17:00SPEAKERYou could feel the difference in the crowd,
17:03SPEAKERbut it still wasn't quite like a public day
17:06SPEAKERat a convention or even E3.
17:10SPEAKERI went to one of the final E3s too,
17:12SPEAKERand yeah, it did not feel like that either.
17:15SPEAKERIt still felt like mostly work,
17:17SPEAKERpeople there to do serious work.
17:19SPEAKER- Yeah, and like for a trade show,
17:24SPEAKERthe idea that there would be like a big mob,
17:28SPEAKERlike if you've been to San Diego Comic-Con,
17:30SPEAKERthat you can get into places on the show floor there
17:33SPEAKERthat there's just so many people you can't move around,
17:35SPEAKERright, like you just kind of have to get
17:37SPEAKERin the flow of traffic and walk with them.
17:40SPEAKERAnd there's a couple, like CES has a couple of bottlenecks
17:43SPEAKERthat are like that pretty consistently,
17:45SPEAKERbut for the most part, there's room to move around.
17:47SPEAKERYou can go and you can talk to somebody at a booth.
17:49SPEAKERIt's not just a massive crush of people all the time
17:52SPEAKERlike there is at Comic-Con.
17:53SPEAKER- And Computex is the same kind of way.
17:55SPEAKERI actually, it was definitely crowded for sure,
17:57SPEAKERand it depended on what booth you were going into,
18:00SPEAKERbut for the most part, we could navigate it
18:02SPEAKERexcept for there was one specific time
18:05SPEAKERduring the opening day where two people came through
18:09SPEAKERand security surrounded and just blocked
18:12SPEAKERthe flow of traffic.
18:13SPEAKERIt was like everything was like to a standstill
18:16SPEAKERand it was very infuriating.
18:19SPEAKERCan you guess what those two people were?
18:21SPEAKERThey weren't together.
18:21SPEAKERThey were like one came through
18:23SPEAKERand then the next one came through.
18:24SPEAKER- Was it Jen Sun?
18:27SPEAKER- Yeah, one of them was the CEO of Nvidia, Jen Sun Wong.
18:32SPEAKERThe other one was the president of Taipei.
18:35SPEAKERSo yeah, they actually came through and like that.
18:39SPEAKERI had never seen anything like completely shut down
18:42SPEAKERlike that before in the middle of a trade show
18:44SPEAKERwith the spectacle and the security
18:47SPEAKERand everybody taking photos and all that kind of stuff.
18:49SPEAKERThat was definitely a new experience for me
18:53SPEAKERat this Computex.
18:54SPEAKER- So it's funny, I feel like politicians
18:57SPEAKERused to come to Comdex, which was kind of
19:00SPEAKERthe last North American computer trade show
19:05SPEAKERthat I think the last one of those was in '98 or '99,
19:08SPEAKERmaybe 2000, it was early this millennium.
19:13SPEAKERBut yeah, so okay, Computex is all about computers.
19:18SPEAKERI didn't realize that there were,
19:19SPEAKERI thought it was all consumer stuff.
19:21SPEAKERI didn't realize that you were consumer and B2B.
19:23SPEAKERI didn't realize that there were like servers
19:25SPEAKERand data center stuff and all that kind of stuff there too.
19:27SPEAKER- Oh yeah, I mean, so there's two,
19:32SPEAKERthe actual Nongong Convention Center has two buildings
19:36SPEAKERand then the main one has two floors.
19:41SPEAKERLike in, usually the consumer stuff is on the top floor
19:44SPEAKERof one of the buildings,
19:46SPEAKERbut the rest of it is B2B stuff.
19:49SPEAKERBut even on the consumer floor,
19:51SPEAKERlike there's a company like Asus
19:52SPEAKERwho has a lot of B2B work, you know, customers,
19:57SPEAKERbut then also a lot of consumer grade.
19:59SPEAKERAnd not only did they have some of it separate,
20:01SPEAKERlike Asus had a separate ROG booth
20:04SPEAKERfor their gaming stuff versus their Asus proper stuff.
20:07SPEAKERBut even in the Asus proper,
20:09SPEAKERthey had like large data centers
20:12SPEAKERwith the latest Nvidia workstation server grade stuff
20:17SPEAKERin there alongside their pro art,
20:19SPEAKERconsumer based creation tools and things like that.
20:23SPEAKERSo it was very integrated into it,
20:27SPEAKEReven though we're there mostly for the consumer stuff, so.
20:31SPEAKER- So, okay, so like at E3,
20:34SPEAKERyour big booths are like your big publishers
20:37SPEAKERin your platform.
20:38SPEAKERSo it's like Sony and Microsoft and EA
20:39SPEAKERand like once upon a time Activision
20:42SPEAKERand Ubisoft and all those.
20:43SPEAKERAt CES, it's like, you know, CES is consumer electronics.
20:47SPEAKERSo for a long time it was Intel and Microsoft
20:49SPEAKERand Panasonic and Samsung and--
20:53SPEAKER- LG usually has a pretty big booth.
20:55SPEAKER- LG and folks like that.
20:57SPEAKERAnd like, they're selling everything
20:59SPEAKERfrom like washing machines and dryers
21:01SPEAKERand robot vacuums.
21:02SPEAKER- TVs. - Like LG, yeah,
21:03SPEAKERto TVs and phones.
21:06SPEAKERWhat are the big booths at Computex?
21:10SPEAKER- So for the consumer stuff specifically,
21:13SPEAKERit kind of culminated on that second floor in the middle
21:16SPEAKERand there was four major booths.
21:19SPEAKERTwo of them were Asus.
21:20SPEAKERLike I said, one of them was ROG,
21:22SPEAKERthe other one was more Asus, brand Asus.
21:25SPEAKERThe other one was Gigabyte and the last one was MSI.
21:28SPEAKERSo that was kind of like the dead center of the floor.
21:32SPEAKERYou could stand there right in the middle
21:34SPEAKERand you're just like looking at these huge booths
21:36SPEAKERsurrounding you.
21:38SPEAKERThose were the main four that were huge.
21:41SPEAKER- It's amazing to me that it's motherboard
21:43SPEAKERand video card companies.
21:44SPEAKERI mean, I guess Asus sells PCs as well, laptops as well.
21:49SPEAKERDo Gigabyte do PCs or are they just components?
21:55SPEAKER- That is a good question.
21:56SPEAKERThey do have laptops.
21:57SPEAKERThey were showing off laptop stuff there.
21:58SPEAKERI can't remember if they do pre-builts or not.
22:01SPEAKERThat's actually a good question, but mostly laptops.
22:04SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
22:05SPEAKERI mean, I think laptops are--
22:06SPEAKER- And monitors and all that kind of stuff.
22:08SPEAKERSo I would say laptop was definitely a huge focus there.
22:12SPEAKERObviously, there's the whole Snapdragon stuff.
22:14SPEAKERIntel announced Lunar Lake.
22:16SPEAKERYou know, AMD announced their new Ryzen AI 300 series.
22:20SPEAKERI mean, there was a lot of news, but yeah,
22:22SPEAKERthe major vendors like Intel, AMD and Nvidia
22:27SPEAKERdidn't really have booths there.
22:28SPEAKERThey were partnered with certain booths.
22:30SPEAKERLike, they definitely had presences there
22:33SPEAKERand a lot of them were official keynotes of Computex.
22:38SPEAKERSo their impact was very much felt, but yeah,
22:41SPEAKERit's not like you could walk up to an Intel booth
22:44SPEAKERand check out all their laptops or an Nvidia booth
22:47SPEAKERand check out all their GPUs and things like that.
22:51SPEAKER- It kind of makes less, it's conceptually interesting
22:55SPEAKERto me that there's like a booth for motherboard.
22:57SPEAKERLike, I mean, I guess that's not fair
22:59SPEAKER'cause Asus, I'm sure, sells way more laptops
23:01SPEAKERthan they sell enthusiast motherboards at this point.
23:04SPEAKER- 100%, yeah.
23:05SPEAKER- Yeah, several orders of magnitude probably.
23:08SPEAKERBut it's interesting 'cause it's a thing that like,
23:12SPEAKERI haven't been to a PC trade show since Computex shut down
23:16SPEAKERin like 2019, sorry, 1999 or 2000, right?
23:22SPEAKER- I mean, it's fun.
23:23SPEAKERLike, I love it and that's, I mean,
23:25SPEAKERI love Computex for a number of reasons,
23:27SPEAKERbut being there specifically just for everyone
23:31SPEAKERto celebrate the PC is awesome.
23:34SPEAKERLike, whether you are in laptops or DIY desktops,
23:39SPEAKEReven the server grade stuff,
23:40SPEAKERlike everyone's there for computing and rah, rah, yes.
23:45SPEAKERHardware is amazing,
23:47SPEAKERwhich is definitely different than the CES.
23:50SPEAKERCES is like all tech and while there is a lot of PC stuff
23:55SPEAKERthat we cover at CES, none of it is on any show floor.
24:00SPEAKERIt's like all meetings and we're going
24:02SPEAKERfrom like meeting to meeting where Computex
24:05SPEAKERis really the only trade show that you can go
24:08SPEAKERon a show floor and just see PC stuff.
24:11SPEAKERSo that is definitely like a huge difference that I love,
24:14SPEAKERone of the reasons why I love Computex.
24:16SPEAKER- Yeah, at CES, the PC stuff always felt like
24:20SPEAKERa little bit of, it's not an afterthought
24:22SPEAKER'cause it's not exactly fair, but like they'd be like,
24:25SPEAKERoh, by the way, when you asked to see PC stuff,
24:27SPEAKERthey acted, the people who were doing booth tours
24:30SPEAKERor whatever were always like, oh,
24:32SPEAKERoh, well, let me go find somebody.
24:33SPEAKERI don't know who you talked to about that
24:35SPEAKER'cause we were the first people who asked about that, right?
24:37SPEAKER- Oh, wow, okay, yeah.
24:39SPEAKER- Or you were in some like far away end
24:41SPEAKERof the convention hall where like you had to go
24:45SPEAKERto the West Hall and then go upstairs to the very far back
24:48SPEAKERand then there'd be like, Ace Tech would be back there
24:51SPEAKERwith a bunch of all-in-one coolers that they were selling
24:54SPEAKERto other OEMs, not even to consumers, so.
24:57SPEAKER- That's funny.
24:58SPEAKERWell, yeah, like I actually had a personal goal of mine
25:02SPEAKERto never go to the Las Vegas Convention Center during CES
25:07SPEAKER'cause we never had to.
25:08SPEAKERSo I've been going to CES since 2016
25:11SPEAKERand there's only been one time that I've ever set foot
25:15SPEAKERin Las Vegas Convention Center proper
25:18SPEAKERbecause that's not where the PC stuff is.
25:21SPEAKERLike Las Vegas Convention Center with the three huge halls,
25:24SPEAKERlike we said earlier, it's all refrigerators and TVs
25:28SPEAKERand more consumer-based stuff.
25:31SPEAKERThey've now expanded also, or I mean, not now,
25:34SPEAKERbut a number of years ago, they expanded out into the,
25:37SPEAKERwhat used to be called the Sands Expo.
25:39SPEAKERNow it's the Venetian Expo Center
25:41SPEAKERand that is usually more like smart home
25:44SPEAKERor biohacking, like smart watches
25:48SPEAKERand fitness kind of stuff. - Rings, yeah.
25:51SPEAKER- So that's kind of the show floor for that stuff
25:54SPEAKERand then most of the PC vendors,
25:59SPEAKERwhether it's desktop or laptop,
26:00SPEAKERusually have meeting rooms at the Sands meeting.
26:05SPEAKERThere's like an offshoot off to the side of the show floor
26:08SPEAKERthat's just like all meeting rooms.
26:09SPEAKERSo there's a lot going on there for damn sure,
26:12SPEAKERbut not like Computex.
26:13SPEAKERComputex usually get to show up
26:14SPEAKERand look around and be amazed by the spectacle.
26:18SPEAKER- Well, and it's also the place
26:21SPEAKERthat like case manufacturers come, right?
26:23SPEAKERSo like for your enthusiast PC builder,
26:27SPEAKERwhich I think is of interest
26:28SPEAKERto the tech pod audience probably,
26:30SPEAKERlike you have your fractals and your Leon Lees
26:34SPEAKERand your cooler masters all are set up
26:37SPEAKERwith their new hotness for the next year
26:40SPEAKERand you get to kind of see the future
26:42SPEAKERof what cases look like, right?
26:44SPEAKER- Yeah, well, and we have a couple new people on our team.
26:48SPEAKERThis was their first time going to a Computex
26:50SPEAKERand a lot of them joked, they were like,
26:52SPEAKERoh my god, everyone has a cooler.
26:54SPEAKERWho doesn't make a cooler?
26:55SPEAKER'Cause a lot of these vendors
26:57SPEAKERthat specialize in something else also were like,
27:00SPEAKERoh yeah, we also have either an AIO
27:02SPEAKERor some air tower cooler. (laughs)
27:05SPEAKER- Yeah, all I can figure is the margins
27:07SPEAKERon AIOs must be real good.
27:09SPEAKER- Well, hey, Zalman still had a booth there.
27:12SPEAKERThey were showing off new stuff,
27:14SPEAKERbut they still had their typical copper,
27:18SPEAKERwhat was the name of that?
27:20SPEAKERJust kind of like fanned out CPU.
27:22SPEAKER- Oh, the onion thing?
27:23SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, yeah, Leo, I don't know how to describe it,
27:25SPEAKERbut it's a classic Zalman CPU cooler.
27:30SPEAKER- Yeah, they were always doing low profile
27:33SPEAKERand like really efficient air coolers.
27:37SPEAKERThey often would come out of Computex in the old days
27:40SPEAKERwith like, hey, we built a case
27:42SPEAKERthat's completely passively cooled.
27:43SPEAKERNo fans needed it, and you had some crazy heat pipe thing
27:47SPEAKERthat went from the CPU up onto the case,
27:50SPEAKERand then the case had a bunch
27:50SPEAKERof aluminum radiator fins on it,
27:53SPEAKERso the whole thing would just get kind of warm.
27:57SPEAKERI don't think it would work
27:58SPEAKERin the modern era, unfortunately.
27:59SPEAKER- Actually, no, there were some manufacturers
28:02SPEAKERwho were, I would say, one of the spectacles
28:04SPEAKERat a lot of these booths to get people in,
28:08SPEAKERregardless of whether they were looking
28:09SPEAKERfor that company's specific product or not,
28:12SPEAKERwas a lot of these booths had hired people to do case mods.
28:17SPEAKERWe didn't do one this year,
28:18SPEAKERbut last year we actually did a big roundup
28:20SPEAKERof all the case mods that we saw that were cool,
28:22SPEAKERso there was a lot of cool stuff to be had there.
28:26SPEAKERLast year, somebody had built a computer
28:28SPEAKERinside of one of the alien eggs.
28:31SPEAKER- Oh, wow.
28:32SPEAKER- Which was, and then had dry ice coming out of the top
28:35SPEAKERkind of thing, or, yeah, it was, yeah.
28:37SPEAKERCase mods, I am not into case mods myself
28:41SPEAKER'cause I'm not inclined to work on things like that,
28:46SPEAKERbut yeah, there's definitely a lot of cool people
28:49SPEAKERthat do cool stuff, and you walk by and you're like,
28:50SPEAKERoh my god, that's a computer?
28:52SPEAKERThat's pretty awesome.
28:54SPEAKER- Like, that, the attention to spectacle,
28:57SPEAKERand there used to be, I don't know if they still do this,
29:00SPEAKERbut this was, I think this was Gordon's theory,
29:04SPEAKERwas that case manufacturers especially
29:06SPEAKERwould gin up something that would be impossible
29:08SPEAKERto manufacture, they would show off at Computex
29:11SPEAKERjust as a red herring, so everybody else would try
29:13SPEAKERto knock it off and then run, you know,
29:16SPEAKERthe tooling costs would run them out of business
29:18SPEAKERtheoretically, just cause speed bumps for each other,
29:21SPEAKERchasing impossible-to-manufacture products.
29:24SPEAKERAnd I mean, I think that used to be the case,
29:27SPEAKERbut now I think we're good enough at manufacturing
29:29SPEAKERthat there's not really a whole lot that's impossible
29:31SPEAKERto manufacture anymore.
29:33SPEAKER- Yeah, and I would say the, at least since I've been going
29:37SPEAKERto CES and Computex and these kind of trade shows,
29:40SPEAKERthe last company that would do spectacle
29:43SPEAKERjust for spectacle's sake was like Razer.
29:45SPEAKERLike, usually they would come to a CES
29:48SPEAKERand have some sort of like design that they were like,
29:51SPEAKERyou know, kind of cagey about whether this was gonna
29:53SPEAKERcome out or not, but it was like the thing of like,
29:55SPEAKERoh my god, did you see what Razer made?
29:57SPEAKERBut even they've kind of fallen by the wayside on that.
30:01SPEAKERWe don't really see that too much anymore
30:03SPEAKERof like, just really like, you know,
30:07SPEAKERgoing crazy with something design-wise.
30:11SPEAKER- Yeah, I remember Razer brought a Proto Steam Deck thing
30:14SPEAKERlike 12 years ago, 13 years, a long, long time ago to CES.
30:19SPEAKERAnd it was like, it was a slab computer with two handles
30:23SPEAKERon the side that had their kind of crappy controllers,
30:25SPEAKERsticks on it, and they were like, look, yeah,
30:27SPEAKERyou can play games on this thing.
30:28SPEAKERAnd then I think that shipped, I'd have to go look,
30:31SPEAKERI don't even remember.
30:33SPEAKERBut it was, yeah, it feels, I don't know,
30:37SPEAKERit's, I'm interested, so who's, I guess who's not there?
30:41SPEAKERLike Dell and HP and the big American PC vendors there?
30:45SPEAKER- I mean, this is definitely a place for trade shows to,
30:50SPEAKERor I'm sorry, companies that are Asian-based
30:53SPEAKERto kind of like show off, and there's a lot of like,
30:56SPEAKERjust to be frank, still like traditions that are not
31:00SPEAKERas accepted in the US.
31:01SPEAKERLike actually there are still a lot of booth babes.
31:04SPEAKERThere's a lot of like big flower arrangements
31:07SPEAKERthat companies will get at their booths.
31:10SPEAKERYou know, it was like, oh hey, congratulations
31:12SPEAKERof what you showed off at the booth.
31:13SPEAKERSo, you know, some of it is definitely cultural
31:17SPEAKERin a lot of Asian-based companies.
31:19SPEAKERMost major manufacturers are there in some sort.
31:22SPEAKERLike I said, like Intel, AMD, Nvidia
31:25SPEAKERdidn't have their own booth,
31:27SPEAKERbut they definitely had a presence there.
31:29SPEAKERThere were a couple companies, like actually,
31:31SPEAKERnow that I think about it, Razor,
31:33SPEAKERRazor doesn't go to Computex.
31:35SPEAKERSo there are definitely some companies
31:37SPEAKERthat just don't show up for Computex.
31:39SPEAKERAnd I don't know if that's because they don't sell
31:41SPEAKERin those markets, in Asian markets,
31:43SPEAKERor I think they just, I mean, especially in today's age,
31:47SPEAKERa lot of these companies have been like,
31:48SPEAKEReh, we can put on our own event and not have to worry
31:51SPEAKERabout going to a big trade show.
31:52SPEAKERSo there is some of that even.
31:54SPEAKER- And Razor is less B2B and more consumer product, right?
31:58SPEAKERIt's not like you're selling your Razor gaming laptop
32:01SPEAKERinto your Fortune 500 company, probably.
32:03SPEAKER- True, true, yeah, yeah.
32:06SPEAKERSo I would say for the most part,
32:08SPEAKERI mean, representation is pretty big.
32:10SPEAKERNow, I will say there are some companies
32:12SPEAKERthat don't exhibit at the show proper, right?
32:17SPEAKERKind of like E3, and I know we keep coming back
32:19SPEAKERto that analogy, but yeah, like at some point,
32:21SPEAKEREA peeled away from E3 proper.
32:25SPEAKERThey still put on an event at the same time as E3,
32:28SPEAKERbut it wasn't actually part of E3.
32:31SPEAKERSame thing kinda happens here.
32:32SPEAKERThere are a lot of companies who are like,
32:33SPEAKEReh, we don't wanna pay for a booth on the show floor
32:37SPEAKERor something like that, so we're having our own event.
32:40SPEAKERLike, we went to Fractal Design,
32:42SPEAKERwhich makes a lot of popular cases,
32:45SPEAKERand they had an event on the 88th floor
32:49SPEAKERof the Taipei 101 this year, so they were at the show.
32:53SPEAKERI mean, but they were at the show, so, yeah.
32:58SPEAKER- Like, what are those events like?
32:59SPEAKERLike, at CES, those events are often like,
33:02SPEAKERhey, we're gonna have a CEO stand up
33:04SPEAKERand talk for like five minutes,
33:06SPEAKERand then there'll be hors d'oeuvres,
33:07SPEAKERand you could take pictures of the hardware, maybe.
33:10SPEAKERTalk to engineers if you're really lucky,
33:12SPEAKERor is it the same kind of vibes, or is it?
33:15SPEAKER- I would say it is mostly tailored
33:17SPEAKERfor people to come in and get content.
33:20SPEAKERFor the most part, like, I went to an NZXT appointment,
33:23SPEAKERand NZXT had everything from their cases
33:26SPEAKERto their new fans to, you know, like,
33:28SPEAKERthey actually had a historical thing
33:30SPEAKER'cause NZXT hit 20 years.
33:32SPEAKERSo they had old NZXT cases, like on a timeline kinda thing,
33:37SPEAKERwhich was pretty cool, so usually they kinda know
33:40SPEAKERthat the audience is there to get,
33:42SPEAKERor at least the media are there to get information
33:46SPEAKERand to either make videos like us or write articles,
33:49SPEAKERget photos, all that kinda stuff.
33:51SPEAKERFractal was actually the only event or briefing
33:56SPEAKERthat I went to that actually had us sit down in chairs,
33:59SPEAKERand they had a PowerPoint presentation on the projector.
34:03SPEAKERThat's always the worst, just to be honest.
34:05SPEAKERNothing against fractal, I love fractal,
34:07SPEAKERbut I've been to plenty of those kind of events
34:09SPEAKERwhere, like, you're up on your feet all day,
34:12SPEAKERyou have limited sleep, and then they sit you down
34:14SPEAKERto do a PowerPoint presentation, and inevitably,
34:17SPEAKERsomebody starts snoring, not to be rude,
34:20SPEAKERit's just everybody's tired, so a lot of times
34:23SPEAKERthat is kind of like, oh, please don't do that.
34:25SPEAKERJust bring us in and, you know, kinda show the stuff.
34:29SPEAKER- Well, like, if you have tangible things to touch,
34:33SPEAKERit's always better to handle, like,
34:35SPEAKERlet us handle the hardware.
34:36SPEAKERI wanna see the hardware and actually get it,
34:38SPEAKERlike, be able to touch it and open it up
34:40SPEAKERand look at it and poke at it if that's possible.
34:42SPEAKERAnd it's the reason you come to the event.
34:45SPEAKERLike, you could've looked at a presentation on a Zoom.
34:48SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, and especially for desktop,
34:51SPEAKERDIY desktop builders, like, it is important
34:54SPEAKERto kinda get your hands on something
34:56SPEAKERand feel what it's gonna be like to, you know,
34:59SPEAKERmaybe potentially build with it, and that's a lot
35:02SPEAKERof the way that we cover our stuff is like,
35:04SPEAKERhey, you know, what's announced?
35:06SPEAKERWhat are the key facts about it?
35:07SPEAKERHow does it feel initially to kind of build in?
35:10SPEAKER- Unfortunately, like a lot of things, I mean,
35:13SPEAKERcompanies, maybe they announced a product,
35:15SPEAKERit doesn't come out 'til fall,
35:17SPEAKERso all they have are engineering samples,
35:18SPEAKERso you're still kind of taking some things
35:20SPEAKERwith a grain of salt and, I mean, kinda like at E3,
35:23SPEAKERyou show up to a game demo and you're like,
35:24SPEAKERwell, the game's not final, so there could be bugs.
35:27SPEAKERSo, you know, that even happens in this space too, for sure.
35:31SPEAKERSo it's definitely interesting,
35:34SPEAKERbut usually pretty representative of what, like,
35:37SPEAKERfinal products are gonna be like.
35:39SPEAKERVery rarely is something behind a case,
35:42SPEAKERor like a glass case, and you're like,
35:44SPEAKERyou can't touch it, except for, I will say this year,
35:48SPEAKERIntel put their new Lunar Lake laptops behind glass
35:53SPEAKERand didn't let anybody touch them.
35:55SPEAKERThey announced it, and they had laptops at booths,
35:58SPEAKERbut they were all behind glass, which was very odd.
36:02SPEAKER- So people couldn't, like, get hands-on
36:04SPEAKERand run benchmarks on 'em, you think,
36:06SPEAKERor was it something from--
36:08SPEAKER- I heard from multiple vendors that, yes,
36:11SPEAKERthat was a problem with Meteor Lake,
36:12SPEAKERtheir previous launch, is that people were getting a,
36:16SPEAKERyou know, kind of pulling it off to the side,
36:17SPEAKERrunning a quick benchmark and gathering some information
36:21SPEAKERbased off of, you know, pre-release drivers
36:23SPEAKERand pre-release hardware kinda stuff,
36:24SPEAKERand then coming to a conclusion and, you know, kinda thing,
36:27SPEAKERand so Intel was very much like,
36:29SPEAKERwe don't want that this time, so, which,
36:32SPEAKERbut then on the other side, that's kind of a bummer for us,
36:34SPEAKERbecause we couldn't get our hands on the hardware.
36:37SPEAKERWe couldn't get any sort of viable information
36:40SPEAKERof like, okay, this is what it feels like to use,
36:42SPEAKERso it's a double-edged sword, right?
36:45SPEAKERYou know, every company kind of has
36:47SPEAKERtheir own different way to do it.
36:49SPEAKERUsually they err on the side of,
36:51SPEAKERhey, here's what we're showing,
36:52SPEAKERand here's what you can mess with,
36:55SPEAKERbut this year, Intel was a little more cagey.
36:58SPEAKER- Well, it means if, like, a laptop vendor
37:00SPEAKERdoes something novel with their physical design,
37:03SPEAKERyou're not gonna get the opportunity to handle it,
37:04SPEAKERwhich stinks.
37:06SPEAKER- Well, and I mean, a good example is I love handhelds.
37:09SPEAKERLike, that's definitely one of my coverage zones
37:11SPEAKERat PC World, handheld PC gaming.
37:13SPEAKER- Steam Deck, Ally. - Steam Deck, ROT Ally,
37:16SPEAKERall that kind of stuff.
37:17SPEAKERYeah, so the MSI Claw, they announced a new version,
37:20SPEAKERan eight-inch version, called the Claw 8 AI Plus,
37:26SPEAKER'cause they figured out a way to put AI in the computer,
37:29SPEAKERwhich is fun. - Thank goodness.
37:31SPEAKER- Who would've thought?
37:32SPEAKER- How many tops? - We have AI
37:33SPEAKERin the computer.
37:34SPEAKER- 48, 50, 52, what are we talking about here?
37:37SPEAKER- Well, so it was a lunar lake-based design,
37:41SPEAKERso they were like, hey, we can't wait to show you
37:43SPEAKERthis new handheld, but I literally couldn't even
37:46SPEAKERput it in my hand to feel how the handheld, you know,
37:50SPEAKERwas just like, is it comfortable, is it heavy?
37:54SPEAKERYou know, like, what are the ergonomics?
37:56SPEAKER- How do the sticks feel? - Exactly, yeah,
37:58SPEAKER'cause lunar lake was inside, and because Intel asked,
38:02SPEAKERyou know, all the vendors to have a lunar lake behind glass,
38:04SPEAKERso that was definitely a real big bummer.
38:09SPEAKER- You mentioned this a minute ago,
38:10SPEAKERand I wanna circle back.
38:11SPEAKERI love when a vendor has either like, hey,
38:14SPEAKERhere are all of our, here's the timeline of our products
38:18SPEAKERthrough the ages.
38:19SPEAKERI remember Cooler Master did a case layout once
38:21SPEAKERwhere they had like, hey, here's our first aluminum case
38:22SPEAKERup to the modern stuff.
38:24SPEAKERMy all-time favorite of that is when Valve
38:27SPEAKERlaunched the Vive at GDC in 2015, I think.
38:32SPEAKERThey had all of their hardware prototypes.
38:34SPEAKERThey had an example of each of the hardware prototypes,
38:37SPEAKERand they were all just laid out so you could see
38:39SPEAKERthe entire run-up from, hey, here's a thing with cameras
38:43SPEAKERthat like, that relies on fiducials on the wall
38:46SPEAKERto track your position in space all the way up
38:48SPEAKERthrough, you know, shipping product on the end.
38:52SPEAKERAnd it was really cool to see like, hey,
38:54SPEAKERthis is a thing we've been working on for a long time.
38:56SPEAKERLike, it highlighted how much work goes into making
38:59SPEAKERthat kind of, you know, any kind of,
39:02SPEAKERa product of any kind of complexity.
39:04SPEAKER- I love that too, yeah.
39:05SPEAKERI do think some companies are probably like,
39:07SPEAKERscared to show off some of that stuff,
39:09SPEAKEReither because of, you know, proprietary knowledge
39:11SPEAKERor maybe they, you know, are worried people
39:13SPEAKERwill get the wrong idea, but I really do like
39:16SPEAKERwhen like, prototyping stuff is shown off.
39:18SPEAKERThe only example I can think of for prototyping stuff
39:22SPEAKERat this show was ZOTAC announced their new handheld,
39:27SPEAKERhandheld PC called the ZOTAC Zone.
39:31SPEAKERAnd so they actually had like, 3D printed models
39:35SPEAKERof different like, hand shapes and, you know,
39:37SPEAKERthat kind of stuff to be like, hey, here's where
39:39SPEAKERwe're thinking about ergonomics.
39:40SPEAKERAnd I really do like hearing the backstory
39:43SPEAKERof a lot of that stuff.
39:44SPEAKER- Well, as somebody who used to make videos on this,
39:46SPEAKERit makes it really easy to make those videos, right?
39:49SPEAKER'Cause you can sit there and you can walk with a PM
39:51SPEAKERand let them tell the story and have,
39:54SPEAKERthey can show and tell, you know, through the different,
39:56SPEAKERthrough the different iterations and what they learned.
39:58SPEAKERAnd it ends up being a much more interesting video
40:00SPEAKERthan just, our product is running a lunar lake,
40:04SPEAKERblah, blah, blah, at this speed, and we have this many,
40:07SPEAKERour display is this many nits bright
40:09SPEAKERand it has this resolution and you can go up
40:11SPEAKERto 90 frames a second, you know, it's always good
40:15SPEAKERto be able to show rather than tell, so.
40:17SPEAKER- Definitely, I'll say one of the other things
40:20SPEAKERthat I love about Computex, I mean, this applies
40:22SPEAKERto any trade show, but for Computex specifically,
40:25SPEAKERusually by like day two or three of the trade show floor
40:31SPEAKERbeing open, 'cause by that point we've already been there
40:35SPEAKERfor like a week, 'cause stuff always happens beforehand.
40:37SPEAKERBut the, at some point you start to see these trends.
40:45SPEAKERLike, oh wow, huh, that's interesting.
40:46SPEAKERThere's like a new trend that's kind of forming
40:49SPEAKERand I, this year specifically, I did a video on CAM2,
40:53SPEAKERwhich is a new low profile memory spec
40:57SPEAKERthat is meant for laptop, but we actually had
40:59SPEAKERsome PC vendors, desktop PC vendors who were experimenting
41:03SPEAKERwith that design on motherboards.
41:07SPEAKERAnd so like, it was not something that was like
41:11SPEAKERa big splash, but like I started noticing like,
41:15SPEAKERhuh, that's weird, Asus, MSI, a couple other vendors,
41:20SPEAKERthey're starting to experiment with this
41:22SPEAKERand it was mostly like kind of in the corner.
41:24SPEAKERAnd so I did kind of a, I interviewed all of them,
41:27SPEAKERasked why they're doing it, you know, all the PMs
41:29SPEAKERand stuff like that, and then kind of made a video
41:32SPEAKERbased off of my findings on that.
41:33SPEAKERSo I really do love like seeing like trends
41:37SPEAKERthat kind of evolve and like something that
41:39SPEAKERcould potentially be a thing in the future,
41:41SPEAKERor who knows, maybe it's a flash in the pan
41:43SPEAKERand it never comes to fruition.
41:45SPEAKER- Well, to see a step further, I think this is one
41:48SPEAKERof those things that last year was the rear connectors,
41:51SPEAKERright, for motherboards. - Definitely, yes, definitely.
41:54SPEAKERYeah.
41:54SPEAKER- You know, last year MSI and Asus and Gigabyte,
41:57SPEAKERwas that the other one?
41:58SPEAKERHad-- - Gigabyte started the spec
42:00SPEAKERand then yeah, Asus and MSI kind of developed their own.
42:04SPEAKER- For people who don't know, they have motherboard designs
42:07SPEAKERand cases that work with them that put the,
42:09SPEAKERlike the ATX power connector and your CPU accessory power
42:13SPEAKERand all the other stuff, and it plugs into the backside
42:16SPEAKERof the motherboard so you don't have to run cables
42:19SPEAKERaround the front, you can just jam in the back
42:20SPEAKERand then hide your shame.
42:21SPEAKER- I love it, I've done, yeah, we covered it extensively
42:25SPEAKERlast year's Computex, you know, now that some of the products
42:28SPEAKERare on market, I've definitely covered 'em there.
42:31SPEAKERYeah, I mean, you actually helped me do a video
42:33SPEAKERon the channel with the Corsair 2500X, I think,
42:37SPEAKERwas the name of the case.
42:39SPEAKER- Yeah, that was one of their designs that they like
42:41SPEAKERported over, basically, an old case design
42:44SPEAKERfor the new, the holes in the motherboard tray
42:47SPEAKERthat fit, line up with the motherboards.
42:50SPEAKER- But yeah, I actually didn't do a, like I was actually
42:53SPEAKERplanning on doing a follow-up video for, hey,
42:57SPEAKERbackside connector, you know, trends came out
43:01SPEAKERof Computex last year, where do we sit with it
43:03SPEAKERin Computex a year later?
43:05SPEAKERWe ran out of time just 'cause there's so much to do,
43:08SPEAKERso I didn't get to do it, but there's definitely
43:10SPEAKERa lot of movement in that space, even though it's like
43:13SPEAKERnot as, you know, brand new shiny object
43:17SPEAKERlike it was last year.
43:18SPEAKER- The thing I meant to ask you about is if they're gonna
43:20SPEAKERstart doing that on ITX boards, 'cause that seems like
43:22SPEAKERthe place where really you could use the ease
43:27SPEAKERof plugging in your cables is on small form factors.
43:33SPEAKER- Actually, hmm, that's a good question.
43:35SPEAKERI would say yes, there's been talk, but now that I think
43:39SPEAKERabout it, I can't think of an ITX-specific board
43:41SPEAKERthat was shown off.
43:42SPEAKERUsually it's full ATX or micro ATX.
43:46SPEAKERI think one of the issues, though, is that a lot of times
43:49SPEAKERthe ITX space right now is defaulting
43:53SPEAKERto sandwich-style layouts, so I think the concern is,
43:58SPEAKERyou know, in that kind of case, then you're actually
44:01SPEAKERrunning into problems, so yeah, I think that's probably
44:03SPEAKERwhy we're not seeing a ton of movement
44:05SPEAKERin the ITX space specifically, but I mean,
44:08SPEAKERit doesn't mean you can't, for sure.
44:10SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
44:11SPEAKEROkay, so like anything else, I wanna talk about
44:14SPEAKERthe other stuff, 'cause like, part of going to
44:17SPEAKERthe big trade show is always, hey, you know,
44:21SPEAKERwhether, depending on how you feel about Vegas,
44:24SPEAKERoh man, I got to go be in Vegas for 10 days,
44:26SPEAKERor oh god, I gotta go be in Vegas for 10 days.
44:28SPEAKER- Yeah, no, I'm on that camp.
44:29SPEAKER- Yeah, it's like, I have a 48-hour hard limit
44:33SPEAKERon the amount of time I wanna be in Vegas,
44:34SPEAKERand the more days I go past that, the less I ever
44:37SPEAKERwanna go back to Vegas again.
44:39SPEAKER- Yeah, I've been to Vegas too many times in my life,
44:42SPEAKERand most of them have been trying to do serious work,
44:46SPEAKERand Vegas is not a place to do serious work.
44:48SPEAKER- Yeah, no, no, no, like, when we were doing
44:51SPEAKERtested CES stuff real hard, and bringing like
44:54SPEAKEReight or 10 people, we would do, my days,
44:57SPEAKERa short day was 18 hours, like if I got five hours of sleep,
45:00SPEAKERI was really stoked, so like Vegas is not,
45:05SPEAKERlike sleep deprived and having fun Vegas is one thing,
45:07SPEAKERbut sleep deprived and trying to work for 18 or 20 hours
45:10SPEAKERa day Vegas is no good.
45:12SPEAKER- And I don't know if you guys have rented this,
45:14SPEAKERbut you know, going from meeting to meeting,
45:16SPEAKERsometimes you're actually literally going from
45:21SPEAKERlike a hotel or casino to a different hotel,
45:25SPEAKERand I mean, I focus, I'm primarily on the video crew,
45:28SPEAKERI'm the head of video production,
45:30SPEAKERbut I used to just start off as a shooter editor,
45:34SPEAKERso I'd always be carrying around a video camera,
45:36SPEAKERand every trip there'd always be a handful of people
45:39SPEAKERwho would stop me as I'm trying to rush to my next
45:42SPEAKERappointment, and they'd be like, drunkenly like,
45:45SPEAKERhey, take my photo, take my photo, don't you wanna
45:47SPEAKERtake a photo of me, and I'm like, no,
45:49SPEAKERI'm trying to get to work, so get out of my way, please.
45:53SPEAKER- The thing that always killed me was the cab lines
45:55SPEAKERin Vegas, 'cause there's no public transit,
45:57SPEAKERthe cab lines were sometimes an hour and a half long,
46:01SPEAKERso our big innovation, like Uber wasn't any better,
46:05SPEAKER'cause traffic was bad, our big innovation it tested was
46:09SPEAKERour office manager came with us, and she drove a van,
46:13SPEAKERso she would just ferry people around all day
46:16SPEAKERfrom one stop to the other, and we were able to get
46:19SPEAKERa lot more work done as a result of having easy access
46:22SPEAKERto transportation, and it didn't cost a whole lot,
46:25SPEAKERand she got to come to Vegas and have a couple
46:26SPEAKERof really nice dinners, so she was excited.
46:28SPEAKER- Well, luckily at Computex, most of the things
46:31SPEAKERare centralized around the convention center,
46:34SPEAKERwhich I appreciate, and then the rest of it
46:37SPEAKERis usually around the Taipei 101 area.
46:40SPEAKERBut yeah, like any other trade show, we usually show up
46:43SPEAKERabout three days before the actual show floor opens,
46:48SPEAKERbecause we're taking a lot of pre-brief meetings,
46:50SPEAKERpreparing content that will hit some sort of embargo
46:55SPEAKERduring announcements, maybe attending the actual keynotes,
47:00SPEAKERand then the show floor proper opens, and then doing
47:04SPEAKERa bunch of coverage from the show floor as well,
47:07SPEAKERso it's usually a trade show for us is about a week's time
47:12SPEAKERof covering, so.
47:15SPEAKER- Well, and the jet lag is gnarly to going to Taiwan
47:18SPEAKERfrom even the West Coast, so.
47:20SPEAKER- You know, I didn't get hit going there,
47:23SPEAKERI got hit way harder coming back, which in the past,
47:28SPEAKERI never had to do this, but a couple people on my team
47:31SPEAKERhad to make that trek going from Computex
47:34SPEAKERto immediately covering E3, literally flying from Taiwan
47:38SPEAKERto LA to cover E3, and the jet lag would hit 'em,
47:41SPEAKERand it was horrible.
47:43SPEAKERI'm so glad I never had to deal with that, 'cause ooh.
47:46SPEAKER- It sounds like hell.
47:48SPEAKER- It's definitely.
47:49SPEAKER- So what's the, so you mostly stay
47:51SPEAKERin the convention center area when you're there?
47:54SPEAKER- No, we usually stay at a, for most of the work,
47:58SPEAKERyes, like in the meetings or around the convention center,
48:00SPEAKERbut some of the companies will do it at their headquarters,
48:04SPEAKERbecause a lot of them are based in Taiwan,
48:05SPEAKERlike ASUS has a really large headquarters, MSI,
48:09SPEAKERCooler Master, Nvidia has an office there too, AMD,
48:12SPEAKERso there's definitely appointments that we go
48:16SPEAKERto specific vendors for, but for the most part,
48:19SPEAKEReverybody has some sort of something
48:21SPEAKERaround the actual convention center.
48:24SPEAKER- And do you get to do like fab tours
48:25SPEAKERand stuff like that ever, since all that stuff is there too,
48:27SPEAKERor is that in a different part of the island?
48:30SPEAKER- Yeah, so TSMC, which is the largest fab
48:34SPEAKERin the world right now, it supposedly doesn't do
48:38SPEAKERa lot of press-related tours, so we've never looked into it,
48:43SPEAKERand that's kind of the only one
48:45SPEAKERthat's within spitting distance of Taipei,
48:49SPEAKERwhich that's where Computex is, it's specifically in Taipei.
48:53SPEAKERWe did do some vendor-specific tours,
48:56SPEAKERlike last year Gordon and I went out
48:58SPEAKEReven a little bit earlier, and we actually did
49:01SPEAKERa tour of the MSI offices, specifically
49:04SPEAKERaround designing laptops, it was actually
49:07SPEAKERa really fun video, I can send you a link
49:11SPEAKERif you want to put it in the show notes or something,
49:12SPEAKERbut we essentially got to talk to key people
49:16SPEAKERof the laptop design team, we couldn't see manufacturing
49:20SPEAKER'cause the actual physical manufacturing
49:23SPEAKERwas in mainland China, but we didn't tour that,
49:26SPEAKERbut I mean, we talked to the audience development team,
49:30SPEAKERwe talked to the actual design team,
49:33SPEAKERwe talked to, MSI's one of the only companies
49:36SPEAKERthat has in-house rapid prototyping,
49:41SPEAKERor like a case, like the shells for laptops,
49:45SPEAKERso they can easily concept something
49:47SPEAKERand then send it down to be printed
49:50SPEAKERto get a look of what it looks like physically.
49:53SPEAKERThey do some initial thermal testing,
49:56SPEAKERthey do have a very small anechoic chamber there,
49:58SPEAKERso we got to experience that, that was
50:00SPEAKERa really fun video to put together,
50:03SPEAKERI would love to do more stuff like that.
50:05SPEAKERAnother person who does awesome tours like that
50:08SPEAKERis Steve over at Gamers Nexus,
50:11SPEAKERwho was a friend of both of our shows,
50:13SPEAKERand yeah, he's really good at going to these companies
50:18SPEAKERand doing tours based off of what they can show.
50:22SPEAKER- Yeah, it's always hard, anytime you're in a factory,
50:24SPEAKERwe did a couple of car, we tried to do
50:27SPEAKERa couple of car things once, and the list of,
50:30SPEAKERhey, you can show this, but if this is anywhere
50:32SPEAKERin the shot, you can't use that shot,
50:34SPEAKERand I have to imagine the chip fab,
50:38SPEAKERwhere everything secret is a nightmare to shoot in.
50:43SPEAKER- Yeah, we have been invited to specific Intel fab tours,
50:49SPEAKERlike the last one that we got invited to,
50:52SPEAKERI didn't end up going, my coworker, Mark Hochman,
50:55SPEAKERwas in Malaysia, they had a fab tour in Israel
50:59SPEAKERtwo years ago, I think it was,
51:01SPEAKERthey have a fab in Ireland, so I would love
51:06SPEAKERto go on one of these fab tours in the future for sure,
51:08SPEAKERbut yeah, it is exactly what you were saying,
51:11SPEAKERlike, there's certain parts where you're like,
51:13SPEAKERwell, you just can't shoot here, sorry,
51:15SPEAKERwe're just gonna give you the information,
51:16SPEAKERor if you shoot here, you're gonna have to be very careful
51:20SPEAKERof what you're showing, maybe blur something out.
51:24SPEAKER- My favorite note ever was when I asked
51:28SPEAKERif you can go into the paint room of an automotive place,
51:31SPEAKERand they were like, well, you could,
51:33SPEAKERbut you have to not have any cosmetics on,
51:35SPEAKERbecause if you have any deodorant or hair product
51:38SPEAKERor makeup or perfume or a clone or anything like that,
51:43SPEAKERit can impact the paint, it can impact the curing
51:47SPEAKERof the paint as it goes on the panels as they come through,
51:50SPEAKERand I was like, so what, the guys who work here
51:53SPEAKERdon't wear deodorant?
51:53SPEAKERThey're like, no, they have a list,
51:55SPEAKERso they can buy these specific brands
51:57SPEAKERand these flavors of the brands and stuff like that.
51:59SPEAKERI was like, that is nuts.
52:01SPEAKER- Okay, that is nuts, yeah, that's crazy.
52:05SPEAKEROkay, so I think last thing, we gotta talk
52:08SPEAKERabout night markets, 'cause night markets,
52:12SPEAKERnight markets came up a lot in the,
52:13SPEAKERGordon and I watched all the keynotes together,
52:16SPEAKERand night markets came up a surprising amount
52:20SPEAKERduring even the keynotes.
52:23SPEAKERWhat's up with night markets, Adam?
52:24SPEAKER- Well, it is very integrated in a lot of Asian cultures,
52:29SPEAKERbut specifically Taiwan has these key night markets
52:33SPEAKERall over Taiwan, but in Taipei,
52:36SPEAKERthere's some specific ones that are very key,
52:38SPEAKERand yeah, somebody had shared,
52:42SPEAKERI guess there was a Twitter account or something
52:44SPEAKERthat was posting which night markets Jensen from Nvidia
52:48SPEAKERwas attending, just like, I don't know who,
52:52SPEAKERI guess it's the equivalent of inside gossip
52:56SPEAKERfor people who follow large tech CEOs.
52:59SPEAKERI don't know, I don't really follow,
53:01SPEAKERbut it is definitely a thing of like, oh man,
53:04SPEAKERthis CEO appeared at this night market,
53:06SPEAKERthat this night market's gonna get a bunch of boom.
53:09SPEAKER- Well, cool, so for people who don't know night markets,
53:14SPEAKERbasically once it gets dark, like nine o'clock,
53:17SPEAKER10 o'clock at night, it seems like they shut down streets.
53:20SPEAKER- No, earlier than that, more like six,
53:22SPEAKERI think is the earliest one that maybe we went to,
53:26SPEAKERand it depends, a lot of them are actually markets
53:30SPEAKERthat are just designated that.
53:32SPEAKERLike, instead of shutting down a street at a certain time,
53:35SPEAKERit's like, no, this little alleyway
53:37SPEAKERis pretty much always blocked off,
53:40SPEAKER'cause it's not just, a lot of times it's not just about
53:42SPEAKERlike food vendors coming up and setting stalls,
53:45SPEAKERa lot of times there's a bunch of businesses
53:47SPEAKERthat are selling, you know, tchotchkes
53:49SPEAKERand you know, off-brand Gucci bags to people.
53:56SPEAKERSo like in each one of them, and this year,
53:58SPEAKERso I actually went a week early with my wife
54:01SPEAKERto do a personal vacation, so I was able to go
54:04SPEAKERto more night markets than I could
54:06SPEAKERduring like a trade show, which was nice,
54:08SPEAKERand so I think I went to like a total
54:10SPEAKERof six different night markets this last trip.
54:12SPEAKER- Oh, cool.
54:13SPEAKER- And each one of them really does have
54:15SPEAKERa distinct like focus and like vibe to it.
54:19SPEAKERIt's really cool to do them kind of back to back.
54:22SPEAKERI mean, a lot of things are, I mean,
54:24SPEAKERthere's a lot of food, there's a lot of shopping,
54:26SPEAKERa lot of the food can be similar to traditional
54:29SPEAKERTaiwanese stuff, but some of them are like,
54:31SPEAKERoh, if you're gonna go to this night market,
54:33SPEAKERthen this specific dish is, you know,
54:36SPEAKERlike, you know, specific to this night market,
54:39SPEAKERor oh, you really wanna get the one over here.
54:41SPEAKERThere's actually a night market,
54:43SPEAKERI'm gonna butcher the mandarin,
54:45SPEAKER'cause I'm practicing though, but Ningxia night market
54:49SPEAKERis more for like foodies, I guess where you get
54:51SPEAKERlike the really good food stalls and there's way less
54:55SPEAKERof vendor stalls, like selling stuff.
54:58SPEAKERSo the focus there is food.
55:00SPEAKERAnd then another one I went to,
55:03SPEAKERoh, I can't remember the name of it,
55:05SPEAKERbut that one like had way more like vendors
55:07SPEAKERand the stalls were kind of in the middle,
55:09SPEAKERbut really the appeal was all the shopping
55:12SPEAKERoff to the sides, so.
55:14SPEAKER- So what's the food sitch?
55:15SPEAKERIs it like, are we talking about like dumplings
55:18SPEAKERand dim sum kind of stuff, or is it noodles, or is it?
55:20SPEAKER- Everything.
55:21SPEAKER- Really?
55:22SPEAKER- Everything.
55:23SPEAKERI mean, you see a lot of the same things,
55:26SPEAKERlike there's always some sort of like fruit stands,
55:29SPEAKERand usually a lot of times there's multiple
55:31SPEAKERacross the whole market.
55:33SPEAKERYou see a lot of like a traditional Taiwanese snack
55:36SPEAKERis a deep fried sweet potato ball.
55:40SPEAKERSo it's very like airy, almost like an eclair kind of thing.
55:45SPEAKERSo you just get a bag of those and you're just popping 'em
55:47SPEAKERwhile you're walking around.
55:49SPEAKERSo you'll see a lot of the same kind of things.
55:54SPEAKERBut then, yeah, like I said, some of 'em will be like,
55:57SPEAKERoh, we went to this one night market that had this guy
56:00SPEAKERwho had corn on the cob and he like would like lather it up
56:04SPEAKERwith something and he had these series of holes
56:08SPEAKERthat he would put 'em in for different times
56:10SPEAKERand different lengths and I couldn't quite tell
56:12SPEAKERwhat he was doing with 'em, but it took like 15 minutes
56:15SPEAKERand then he like gave this hot corn on a stick
56:19SPEAKERthat looked amazing.
56:20SPEAKERI actually didn't get one, but my coworker got one.
56:24SPEAKERBut yeah, and then some of it's really good
56:27SPEAKERand then some of it is oddities for people
56:31SPEAKERfrom Western cultures.
56:32SPEAKERLike the two major ones are like stinky tofu and durian.
56:36SPEAKERAnd yeah, I don't wanna be too mean to people
56:40SPEAKERwho do love stinky tofu, but oh man,
56:44SPEAKERI remember the very first time I smelled it
56:46SPEAKERand it was not a pleasant experience for me.
56:49SPEAKERI thought there was like an open sewage somewhere
56:52SPEAKERand my instinct in my body was telling me,
56:54SPEAKER"Dude, you need to run, something is wrong."
56:57SPEAKERAnd then I looked over to the side and I was like,
57:00SPEAKER"Oh no, that's stinky tofu." (laughs)
57:03SPEAKER- What's this, it smells like open sewage?
57:06SPEAKERThat seems like a, I've never had stinky tofu.
57:09SPEAKERIt's not really something that comes up here
57:10SPEAKERthat often it turns out.
57:11SPEAKER- Yeah, no, I mean there are places in the Bay
57:13SPEAKERthat you can get it.
57:15SPEAKERI might put together like a big group of us
57:17SPEAKERto go try it or something, but it is fermented.
57:21SPEAKERUsually it's like some sort of fermented concoction
57:25SPEAKERwith tofu, fried tofu, at least at the night market vendors,
57:29SPEAKERit's usually fried tofu with some like cabbage
57:32SPEAKERand fermented vegetables and stuff like that.
57:34SPEAKERI, luckily, I am somebody who will try almost anything once
57:39SPEAKERand so I actually have tried stinky tofu twice
57:43SPEAKERdespite what my inner body was telling me to not do it.
57:47SPEAKERThis past year though, I had a mission to try durian
57:51SPEAKERwhich, yeah, fresh durian has a reputation
57:56SPEAKERto be very rancid smelling to the point where a lot of like,
58:00SPEAKERyou'll see signs up at like airports of like,
58:03SPEAKER"Hey, don't bring durian on planes."
58:04SPEAKEROr hotels will be like,
58:06SPEAKER"Don't bring durian back to your hotel room."
58:08SPEAKERThings like that just 'cause it's so pungent
58:10SPEAKERand it is mostly something that you can only get
58:13SPEAKERin Asian countries like Singapore, Taiwan, places like that.
58:18SPEAKERYou can get some durian here in the States
58:20SPEAKERbut usually it's frozen when it comes over
58:22SPEAKERand supposedly loses a lot of its potency
58:25SPEAKERbut I did try it this year.
58:27SPEAKERI was at, we were at a night market,
58:30SPEAKERthere was some fresh durian right there
58:32SPEAKERand I was like, "Okay, cool."
58:34SPEAKERI actually shot a little video.
58:35SPEAKERI should post that somewhere but--
58:37SPEAKER- You should put it on your TikTok, yeah.
58:38SPEAKER- Yeah, I should, yeah.
58:39SPEAKERAnd it was, I was prepared for the worst
58:43SPEAKER'cause a lot of people hyped it up as a bad reputation
58:46SPEAKERbut luckily it was nowhere near as bad as stinky tofu.
58:50SPEAKERSo I was like, my first inclination was like,
58:55SPEAKER"Oh, this isn't that bad.
58:57SPEAKER"I've had way worse."
58:58SPEAKERI didn't like it, I didn't love it.
59:00SPEAKERI mean, I'd get it again just to try it again, I guess.
59:03SPEAKERBut whatever, but yeah, it was definitely,
59:08SPEAKERdefinitely not as bad as stinky tofu.
59:11SPEAKER- Like fermented stuff in general,
59:13SPEAKERit's funny, different people,
59:15SPEAKERlike my wife is not a fermented food eater in general
59:20SPEAKERand it's hard. - Same, I hate fermented stuff.
59:22SPEAKERI actually don't like kimchi, anything like that.
59:25SPEAKERSo I had a theory that the reason why stinky tofu
59:28SPEAKERhit me harder is because I just don't like fermented stuff.
59:33SPEAKERAnd so I've asked random people around that I know of like,
59:36SPEAKER"Hey, what do you think of stinky tofu, yes or no?"
59:40SPEAKERThen if it's no, then I'm like,
59:41SPEAKER"Hey, do you actually like fermented stuff anyway?"
59:45SPEAKERI would say this theory does not really hold water
59:47SPEAKER'cause most of the time it, yeah.
59:49SPEAKERI haven't been able to see a trend, but you know.
59:52SPEAKER- Okay. - Yeah.
59:53SPEAKER- Well, I mean, keep them food scientists, let us know.
59:57SPEAKEROkay, the last thing on our night market list,
59:59SPEAKERyou have these capsule toys.
1:00:03SPEAKER- So I will say this isn't just a night market thing.
1:00:05SPEAKERThis is literally like everywhere across Taipei.
1:00:09SPEAKERYou can't, you literally can't throw a stone
1:00:11SPEAKERwithout hitting multiple 7-Elevens
1:00:13SPEAKERor other convenience stores.
1:00:17SPEAKERAnd almost all of them always have
1:00:19SPEAKERsome sort of capsule toy machines out front.
1:00:22SPEAKER- Are you talking about like the thing
1:00:23SPEAKERthat you put like 50 cents in and you turn the knob
1:00:25SPEAKERand then a little plastic capsule with a toy in it falls out?
1:00:27SPEAKER- Yes, and it is highly addicting for me.
1:00:33SPEAKERAnd I have spent each trip probably
1:00:35SPEAKERaround $100 on capsule toys.
1:00:38SPEAKER- Oh my God, don't play loot box games, dude.
1:00:41SPEAKER- I know, well Clash Royale still gets me.
1:00:44SPEAKERYeah, the first time I kept all of them
1:00:48SPEAKERin their actual capsule, because then I did some videos
1:00:51SPEAKERwhen I brought it back home and opened it up with my wife.
1:00:54SPEAKERAnd so half my suitcase, if the TSA were to open it up,
1:00:57SPEAKERthey'd be like, what the hell is this?
1:01:00SPEAKERThese are literally all just capsules.
1:01:03SPEAKERThis is weird shit, dude.
1:01:05SPEAKER- 99% of them are toys, 1% drugs.
1:01:08SPEAKER- Yeah, oh, you gotta get through 'em to figure out which.
1:01:11SPEAKERBut yeah, no, it's fun.
1:01:12SPEAKERIt's always like, they're just novelty and they're fun.
1:01:16SPEAKERAnd I love cats and a lot of times
1:01:19SPEAKERthey're like weird cat-based little figurines.
1:01:22SPEAKERAnd I'm like, okay, well that's a cat sitting on a toilet.
1:01:25SPEAKERThat's hilarious, I have to buy it.
1:01:27SPEAKERYeah, and then I bring it home
1:01:29SPEAKERand sometimes I display 'em, sometimes I don't.
1:01:32SPEAKER- You have a shelf full of cats sitting on toilets
1:01:35SPEAKERand now you have to dust, so congratulations.
1:01:37SPEAKER- Well, and the trend I got this year
1:01:40SPEAKERwas capsule toys of capsule toy machines.
1:01:45SPEAKER- Oh wow, that's very meta.
1:01:46SPEAKER- Yeah, literal machines that are capsule toy machines
1:01:50SPEAKERthat have little capsule balls.
1:01:51SPEAKERYou twist a little thing and it pops out.
1:01:53SPEAKER- What, really?
1:01:54SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah. - That's crazy.
1:01:55SPEAKER- Yeah, and there's different kinds, too.
1:01:58SPEAKERAnd we got capsule toys of vending machines as well.
1:02:02SPEAKERAnd literally the vending machines have sodas
1:02:05SPEAKERthe size of like super tiny, yeah.
1:02:10SPEAKER- This is the thing, my daughter got into this briefly
1:02:12SPEAKER'cause she used it when playing with dolls.
1:02:15SPEAKERBut there's these things called mini-brands here.
1:02:18SPEAKER- Oh my God, yes.
1:02:19SPEAKER- That are the same idea, like really small.
1:02:21SPEAKER- Same thing. - Yeah.
1:02:23SPEAKER- I know this is not a video podcast,
1:02:26SPEAKERbut I'm showing you, so.
1:02:28SPEAKER- You're holding up two, what looks like capsule machines?
1:02:31SPEAKERThe focus is locked on your face pretty good, but it's okay.
1:02:34SPEAKER- This white one is a capsule machine and yeah,
1:02:38SPEAKERyou can literally hit the button
1:02:41SPEAKERand a little capsule pops out.
1:02:42SPEAKER- That's amazing.
1:02:44SPEAKER- Yeah, it even goes in the drawer.
1:02:45SPEAKERAnd then this one is a little vending machine.
1:02:47SPEAKERIt's like an orange vending machine that has like little--
1:02:50SPEAKER- Have like jelly drinks?
1:02:52SPEAKERAre jelly drinks popular there?
1:02:53SPEAKER- You load the little drink in the back,
1:02:56SPEAKERyou hit the button and then it comes out of the bottom.
1:02:59SPEAKER- That's amazing. - It is so tiny.
1:03:00SPEAKERI've actually lost one of them.
1:03:02SPEAKEROh, and I almost did it again.
1:03:03SPEAKER- Well, that one's in the keys now, it's gone forever.
1:03:05SPEAKER- Yeah, so look how tiny this is.
1:03:07SPEAKER- It's like a pill, it's smaller than a pill.
1:03:09SPEAKER- Dude, smaller than a pill, yeah.
1:03:11SPEAKERThis is definitely not safe for children.
1:03:13SPEAKER- Yeah, no, don't give those to kids.
1:03:14SPEAKERThat's amazing, that sounds really fun though.
1:03:17SPEAKER- Too fun, too fun, too addicting, yeah, I love it.
1:03:21SPEAKER- Out of curiosity, like those are fancy,
1:03:24SPEAKERlike capsule toys when I was a kid
1:03:25SPEAKERwere like a thing of caps or something.
1:03:27SPEAKERWhat does a capsule toy machine cost?
1:03:31SPEAKER- So yeah, they're usually either five, 10 pieces
1:03:36SPEAKERor two to three 50 cent pieces.
1:03:41SPEAKERSo the rough translation right now
1:03:43SPEAKERis 100 new Taiwan dollars is three American dollars.
1:03:50SPEAKERSo if you use two 50 cent pieces, it's like three bucks.
1:03:54SPEAKERA lot of them, actually some of them
1:03:55SPEAKEReven go up to like five 50 cent pieces.
1:03:59SPEAKERSo that's essentially like you just plopped,
1:04:02SPEAKERI don't know, I'm not good at math,
1:04:03SPEAKERthat's like seven dollars on one.
1:04:06SPEAKER- So if I'm, just to have a point of comparison,
1:04:11SPEAKERlike what is a lunch cost at a fast lunch someplace cost,
1:04:16SPEAKERnot at a convention center?
1:04:19SPEAKER- Oh, like in Taiwan?
1:04:20SPEAKER- Yeah, in Taiwan.
1:04:22SPEAKER- That's the thing is that food there is dirt cheap.
1:04:25SPEAKERYou can get like an amazing meal for like nothing.
1:04:28SPEAKERAnd it's hard for us because we're in the Bay
1:04:31SPEAKERand like one sandwich can be like 20 bucks,
1:04:34SPEAKERbut they're like the same sandwich is probably like 50 cents.
1:04:37SPEAKERMaybe I'm exaggerating,
1:04:38SPEAKERbut it's like you can get a lot of food real cheap.
1:04:41SPEAKERThat's another reason why I like Taiwan, so.
1:04:43SPEAKER- Okay, well this all sounds good.
1:04:46SPEAKERThank you, Adam, so much for coming by
1:04:49SPEAKERand sharing a little bit of what Computex is like.
1:04:52SPEAKERIt sounds, I've got to go sometime, it sounds fun.
1:04:55SPEAKER- Oh yeah, you definitely should, yeah.
1:04:57SPEAKERThanks for having me, love hanging out.
1:05:01SPEAKERI'm always honored to be on the show.
1:05:02SPEAKERI listen every week, so.
1:05:04SPEAKER- Well, thanks Adam.
1:05:05SPEAKERAnd if people want to find out more,
1:05:06SPEAKERI think the PC World YouTube channel
1:05:08SPEAKERprobably is the place to go.
1:05:10SPEAKER- PC World YouTube channel, pcworld.com.
1:05:13SPEAKERAnd I have started a PC World TikTok for anybody inclined,
1:05:19SPEAKERbut you know, we're still experimenting over there.
1:05:21SPEAKER- Well, and if you want a PC focused,
1:05:24SPEAKERPC enthusiast focused podcast every Tuesday,
1:05:26SPEAKERthe full nerd, well more or less every Tuesday,
1:05:28SPEAKERthe full nerd lands over on YouTube
1:05:31SPEAKERand where podcasts are found.
1:05:32SPEAKER- Yeah, the full nerd podcast and Will,
1:05:34SPEAKERyou're on pretty often, especially recently.
1:05:38SPEAKERAnd yeah, we stream it live on YouTube every Tuesday.
1:05:40SPEAKERIt's got its own YouTube channel now,
1:05:43SPEAKERyoutube.com/hatsymbolthefullnerdpodcast.
1:05:48SPEAKER- Thank you so much for coming by,
1:05:49SPEAKERand we'll talk to you soon.
1:05:51SPEAKER- Damn good time.
1:05:52SPEAKER- Be sure to check out PC World for more great work from Adam.
1:05:55SPEAKERThanks as always for coming by.
1:05:57SPEAKERAnd that will do it for us this week.
1:06:01SPEAKERAs always, "Brad and Will Made a Tech Bot"
1:06:03SPEAKERis brought to you by listeners.
1:06:05SPEAKERWe're 100% listener support, and without you all,
1:06:07SPEAKERwe would not be here doing the show every week.
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1:06:14SPEAKERyou can go to patreon.com/techbot.
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1:06:22SPEAKERthat we do every single month.
1:06:23SPEAKERI think this month is gonna be a live tech call-in show.
1:06:27SPEAKERSo if you have tech questions, it may have already happened,
1:06:30SPEAKERbut hit the Discord and we'll have information
1:06:32SPEAKERon how to join in and answer questions,
1:06:35SPEAKERand then the audio version will go up later
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1:06:38SPEAKERBut yeah, you can go to patreon.com/techbot
1:06:42SPEAKERand sign up to support the show.
1:06:44SPEAKERAs always, thank you to all of our patrons,
1:06:46SPEAKERbut a very special thank you goes to our executive producer,
1:06:49SPEAKERto your patrons, including Andrew Slosky,
1:06:52SPEAKERBunny Fiend, Paddle Creek Games makers of Fractured Veil,
1:06:55SPEAKERDavid Allen, James Kamik, Joel Krauska, Jordan Lippett,
1:06:59SPEAKERPantheon, makers of the HS3 high-speed 3D printer,
1:07:03SPEAKERand Twinkle Twinkie.
1:07:04SPEAKERAnd since it's the end of the month,
1:07:06SPEAKERwe owe thanks to our associate producer patrons as well,
1:07:09SPEAKERincluding Alejandro Navarro, Andre M. Burke,
1:07:13SPEAKERAndrew Dicey Scholdyce, Arthur Gies, Ben Tolman,
1:07:18SPEAKERBrutal Kerfuffle, Eric Klein, Felix Kramer,
1:07:22SPEAKERBram Banks, Jad Rita, Just Associate Wedge, Matt Walker,
1:07:26SPEAKERparentheses Walkman8080, close parentheses,
1:07:29SPEAKERMike Etheridge, Nathan Phelps, Sanchit Kumar,
1:07:32SPEAKERSteve Lin, Thomas Shea, and Tom Hilton.
1:07:35SPEAKERThanks everybody, we appreciate all your support.
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1:07:46SPEAKERevery week by this.
1:07:47SPEAKERThank you all so much, and we will be back next week
1:07:49SPEAKERwith another edition of the Tech Bot.
1:07:51SPEAKERSee you then.
1:07:53SPEAKER(upbeat music)