206: A Bunch of Ferrets Is Called a Business

00:00SPEAKER- Okay, Windows is doing it again, Brad.

00:03SPEAKER- The definition of it, I think,

00:04SPEAKERcould apply to any number of things that go on.

00:07SPEAKER- You know the thing where you update your video card

00:09SPEAKERdrivers or like a monitor turns off or turns back on

00:12SPEAKERand then your audio inputs change and you're like,

00:16SPEAKERwhy is sound coming from my monitor

00:17SPEAKERinstead of the only audio interface I ever use?

00:20SPEAKER- Yes.

00:21SPEAKER- Windows 11 had never done that

00:22SPEAKERuntil about two weeks ago to me.

00:24SPEAKER- It's regressing.

00:26SPEAKER- It is, it is, I was excited about using Windows 11

00:31SPEAKERbecause it didn't happen, never happened.

00:33SPEAKERWindows 10, every time you turn off,

00:35SPEAKERyou knock a power cord on the monitor,

00:37SPEAKERall of a sudden all your audio inputs and outputs are jacked.

00:40SPEAKERBut Windows 11, no, you hit the button that says,

00:42SPEAKERhey, don't ever use this one.

00:43SPEAKERAnd it's like, yo man, I'm never gonna use this one.

00:45SPEAKERBut now it uses it every time.

00:47SPEAKER- Have you ever like felt that your house was haunted

00:49SPEAKERor been like psychologically disturbed when that happens?

00:53SPEAKERWhen the output changes to your monitor,

00:55SPEAKERat least on these monitors,

00:57SPEAKERthe way the sound kind of comes out

00:58SPEAKERof the back of the monitor,

01:00SPEAKERit's like, is somebody playing Doom next door to me?

01:03SPEAKERYou know what I mean?

01:04SPEAKERLike, is there a ghost in here

01:05SPEAKERthat is playing these events sounds?

01:06SPEAKERLike sound should not be coming out of a screen

01:08SPEAKERin that fashion.

01:09SPEAKER- No, no, I wish I could just turn it off.

01:11SPEAKERIt doesn't let me turn it off.

01:13SPEAKER- Can you not disable the device in like the playback device

01:16SPEAKERor is it just, is that what it's doing?

01:18SPEAKERIt's undoing the disabling?

01:20SPEAKER- Every time I update video card drivers

01:22SPEAKERand since we're into the game release season,

01:24SPEAKERit's video card update season.

01:26SPEAKEREvery time I update the video card drivers,

01:28SPEAKERit's like, hey man, you got a new audio device here

01:30SPEAKERthat I think you might really wanna use.

01:32SPEAKERIt's a little tiny speaker.

01:34SPEAKERIt's hanging off of the back of your monitor

01:35SPEAKERand it's gonna make your sound sound

01:37SPEAKERreally, really terrible.

01:38SPEAKER- Isn't the whole point of a monitor

01:40SPEAKERto be a screen and nothing else?

01:42SPEAKER- Monitors are better when they're screens and nothing else.

01:44SPEAKER- I've said for years,

01:45SPEAKERI think there's a whole market for TVs there

01:47SPEAKERthat are screens and nothing else, but.

01:49SPEAKER- I'm just saying screens should be seen and not heard.

01:52SPEAKER(upbeat music)

02:20SPEAKER- Welcome to Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod.

02:23SPEAKERI'm Will.

02:24SPEAKER- Hi Brad, hi, hello.

02:25SPEAKER- Hi, hello, hi.

02:26SPEAKERI was watching, I was watching the piggies

02:28SPEAKERwhen you were up doing other things a minute ago.

02:30SPEAKERI was hoping that I would see a glimpse of a piggy,

02:32SPEAKERbut I did not 'cause your chair was in the way.

02:33SPEAKER- I could just wheel out of the way right now.

02:34SPEAKERWhat do you see?

02:35SPEAKER- I see a lot of bright colors.

02:37SPEAKEROh, I see a pig!

02:39SPEAKERHello piggy.

02:39SPEAKERIt looks like she's eating

02:41SPEAKERor she's nosing around the food bowl.

02:42SPEAKERNope, she's shy.

02:43SPEAKERShe went back into the hutch.

02:44SPEAKER- She knows you're talking about her.

02:46SPEAKER- I know, she can tell.

02:47SPEAKERThey, probably your monitor speakers are on.

02:49SPEAKER- It's probably, probably yes.

02:51SPEAKERProbably yes.

02:52SPEAKERComputers.

02:53SPEAKER- Yeah, how do they work?

02:55SPEAKERWhat do we even do, man?

02:56SPEAKER- Can't live with them, can't live without them.

02:59SPEAKERTake my computer, please.

03:01SPEAKER- Every time something weird happens,

03:02SPEAKERlike this Windows 11 thing,

03:04SPEAKERI'm increasingly of the opinion

03:05SPEAKERthat I should just install Windows 98

03:07SPEAKERand go back all the way to one core.

03:09SPEAKERThat's all I need.

03:10SPEAKER- That's right.

03:11SPEAKERThat's all anybody needs.

03:12SPEAKERBill Gates said that.

03:13SPEAKER- Yeah, put Glide on there.

03:15SPEAKERI'll play some Quake World.

03:16SPEAKEREverything will be better.

03:17SPEAKER- That's right.

03:20SPEAKERIs there a Vulcan Glide wrapper out there?

03:24SPEAKER- Okay, I think we have to do an episode about this.

03:26SPEAKERThis is a Q&A episode,

03:27SPEAKERbut I want to digress for a minute,

03:29SPEAKER'cause our engineer Dan at the studio

03:33SPEAKERtried this DirectX Vulcan wrapper on our game the other day,

03:37SPEAKERwhich wraps DirectX 11 games to the Vulcan wrapper.

03:40SPEAKER- It's a DXBK.

03:42SPEAKER- DXBK, yeah, that they use for the Steam Deck.

03:45SPEAKERAnd it completely changed the performance of the game

03:48SPEAKERin really weird and unexpected ways.

03:51SPEAKERNot as, I mean, it had some issues,

03:52SPEAKERso we're not going to actually ship it probably,

03:54SPEAKERbut it was a really, really interesting experiment

03:56SPEAKERin what's weird.

03:59SPEAKER'Cause DirectX 11 temporal AA is really expensive

04:03SPEAKERfor whatever reason,

04:04SPEAKERand all of a sudden turning that on

04:05SPEAKERand with the VK version was much better, or whatever.

04:08SPEAKERIt was a neat experiment.

04:11SPEAKERWe should do a DXBK episode, I think,

04:13SPEAKER'cause it's pretty neat.

04:14SPEAKER- But that sounds good.

04:15SPEAKERWe have a FOSPOD in the works in that vein, let's say.

04:19SPEAKER- Yeah, we haven't put that out yet, huh?

04:20SPEAKER- It's a forthcoming FOSPOD, I swear is still forthcoming.

04:23SPEAKER- Yeah, well, we were in the game releases,

04:25SPEAKERand I'm trying to ship a game,

04:27SPEAKERso both of us are not side project busy,

04:30SPEAKERbut just busy, busy.

04:31SPEAKER- Have you kept up with the Alan Wake 2 stuff?

04:34SPEAKERI don't want to say controversy,

04:35SPEAKER'cause I don't want to get into the whole

04:36SPEAKERpeople yelling at each other on Twitter

04:38SPEAKERabout should a 3070 be able to do better

04:41SPEAKERthan 1080p, blah, blah, blah, or not.

04:44SPEAKER- Wow, they shipped a game that a 3070 won't run 1080p?

04:47SPEAKER- Oh, have you not seen this at all?

04:48SPEAKER- No, dude, I haven't, I have,

04:51SPEAKERI found out that we elected a speaker of the house

04:54SPEAKER36 hours after it happened.

04:56SPEAKERIt was not good.

04:58SPEAKER- Definitely after the fact for me too.

04:59SPEAKERBoy, that was a rude awakening.

05:01SPEAKERLet me see if I can find it here.

05:03SPEAKERThere's an infographic they put out.

05:05SPEAKERI'm just trying to find that infographic.

05:06SPEAKER- While you're looking,

05:07SPEAKERI will say that people have very strange ideas

05:09SPEAKERabout what should be able to run what.

05:11SPEAKERWe have- - That's exactly it.

05:13SPEAKER- People are like, oh, this is,

05:16SPEAKERlike, we make a game that is admittedly

05:18SPEAKERa spiritual successor to Left 4 Dead.

05:20SPEAKERSo people who have machines that are really,

05:22SPEAKERreally good at Left 4 Dead, look at our game,

05:23SPEAKERwhich came out in 2022, and expect it to offer

05:26SPEAKERsimilar performance that their machine does

05:28SPEAKERwith Left 4 Dead, which came out in 2012,

05:30SPEAKERor 2009, or something.

05:34SPEAKERPeople are like, oh, I have a 1080 and 16 gigs of RAM,

05:39SPEAKERand then they're like, I'm not able to run this

05:43SPEAKERat 1080p ultra settings at 120 frames a second,

05:46SPEAKERand I'm like, well, dog, I'm sorry,

05:48SPEAKER'cause that is not gonna, like,

05:49SPEAKERyou need to upgrade your computer

05:51SPEAKERif you would like a modern game

05:53SPEAKERthat shipped on Unreal 4.27 in 2022,

05:56SPEAKERand has 80 or 100 enemies on the screen

05:58SPEAKERat any given time to run, you know, performantly.

06:02SPEAKER- Yeah, I think this is some of that,

06:04SPEAKERand also some of the Alan Wake requirements

06:06SPEAKERactually are genuinely, like, kind of eye-popping.

06:08SPEAKER- But it's a, like, it's a Xbox Series X native game, right?

06:14SPEAKERSee, this is where we're, like, Spider-Man 2,

06:16SPEAKERwhen PlayStation, when Insomniac releases

06:20SPEAKERthe PC specs for that, people are going to be shocked.

06:22SPEAKER- So that was, that's another, actually,

06:24SPEAKERthat's another interesting one where I did not realize this

06:26SPEAKERuntil I saw people pointing it out.

06:28SPEAKEREvery performance profile, every, like, rendering mode

06:31SPEAKERor whatever in Spider-Man 2 on the PS5 uses ray tracing.

06:33SPEAKERThere is no, even the, even the most cut down

06:37SPEAKERperformance mode, frames overall mode,

06:39SPEAKERstill uses ray traced reflections.

06:41SPEAKERSo when they ship that game on PC,

06:43SPEAKERit's presumably going to require a GPU

06:46SPEAKERthat can do ray tracing.

06:47SPEAKER- Yeah, it's going to be a 2080 or higher probably,

06:49SPEAKERwould be my guess.

06:50SPEAKER- Or they could always do the work to do, you know,

06:52SPEAKERcube maps or whatever, and they could bother to do that

06:54SPEAKERon PC, but there's no guarantee they will.

06:57SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, they're still using, okay,

06:58SPEAKERso what's going on with the Alan Wake thing?

07:00SPEAKER- Gosh, there's, well, the reason I brought it up

07:01SPEAKERwas Alan Wake will not run on 1080s on Pascal cards.

07:06SPEAKER- Oh.

07:07SPEAKER- The 1080 TI, that generation.

07:11SPEAKERAlso will not run on AMD 5000 cards,

07:13SPEAKERwhich are much newer than that, but.

07:15SPEAKER- Yeah, that's a weird choice.

07:17SPEAKER- In both cases, it's because those cards don't support

07:19SPEAKERthe full DX12 Ultimate spec.

07:23SPEAKERSo they're just, they're using mesh shaders, I believe,

07:25SPEAKERis the specific feature they're using

07:27SPEAKERthat those cards don't support.

07:29SPEAKERSo part of this was me talking about a Vulcan wrapper

07:33SPEAKERfor Glide for 3D effects and thinking about, like,

07:35SPEAKERhow many generations of hardware features

07:38SPEAKERbehind that card is that could not do Vulcan.

07:42SPEAKERBut this is a much more recent example, though,

07:44SPEAKERof like, you know, 1080 came out, I think, seven years ago

07:48SPEAKERis what I, if I'm not mistaken, and like-

07:50SPEAKER- I was using a 1080 when PUBG came out.

07:52SPEAKER- Right.

07:52SPEAKER- So that would've been 2017.

07:53SPEAKER- Yeah, so like-

07:54SPEAKER- Six years ago, seven years ago.

07:55SPEAKER- It is an old card, but at the same time, in my mind,

07:57SPEAKERit doesn't feel like it's that old,

07:58SPEAKERbut it's just because it's had such long utility, right?

08:02SPEAKER- Well, also there were a couple of slow generations there

08:04SPEAKERbecause of the pandemic, like things,

08:07SPEAKERlike the 2080 lasted a really long time

08:09SPEAKERbecause the 3080s launched during the pandemic

08:11SPEAKERand nobody could buy them.

08:14SPEAKERThat's an unfortunate, like, on one hand,

08:17SPEAKERlook, progress marches ever onward.

08:20SPEAKEROn the other hand, also, I mean, we said this

08:24SPEAKERwhen the ray tracing cards started coming out

08:27SPEAKERtwo, three years ago now, that this was,

08:30SPEAKERthese consoles were gonna cause a reset

08:32SPEAKERin what you should expect on frame rates

08:34SPEAKERfor PC stuff, especially.

08:36SPEAKERAnd to some extent, the 4090 being available

08:40SPEAKERhas kind of counteracted that,

08:41SPEAKERbut also that's a $1,500 video card.

08:43SPEAKERSo like, you know, I don't think it's exactly realistic

08:47SPEAKERto expect people to buy $1,500 video cards.

08:50SPEAKER- Agreed.

08:53SPEAKER- Uh-huh, I'm curious to see what the reaction is.

08:56SPEAKERThat's also Epic only, right?

08:57SPEAKER- Yes, that is an Epic published game,

08:59SPEAKERso that will likely never come to another PC storefront.

09:03SPEAKER- That also means it's not on,

09:05SPEAKER'cause Remedy's owned by Microsoft, right?

09:06SPEAKER- No, no, no, they're independent.

09:08SPEAKER- Oh, they're independent still.

09:09SPEAKERI assumed it was gonna be on Game Pass 'cause,

09:12SPEAKERbut I guess it probably will never be on Game Pass then.

09:14SPEAKER- Probably not.

09:16SPEAKER- Boy, that's interesting.

09:17SPEAKER- Yeah.

09:18SPEAKERAnyway. - Well, yeah.

09:20SPEAKERI mean, a lot of people bought Control.

09:21SPEAKER- Yes, Control was great.

09:23SPEAKERAlan Wake, the reviews came out this morning

09:25SPEAKERat the time of this recording,

09:26SPEAKERour reviews are extremely positive.

09:30SPEAKER- Oh, there you go.

09:31SPEAKER- So, yeah.

09:32SPEAKERAnyway, maybe we'll get into this stuff

09:34SPEAKERmaybe more at a later time.

09:36SPEAKERFor now, it's time to answer some questions.

09:40SPEAKER- So if people have questions,

09:41SPEAKERthey can email us to techpod@content.town,

09:44SPEAKERor if you're in the Discord, if you're a patron,

09:47SPEAKERwhich meant you went to, at some point,

09:48SPEAKERpatreon.com/techpod, signed up,

09:50SPEAKERand then you got access to the Discord,

09:51SPEAKERyou can go to the Question Seeking Answers channel,

09:53SPEAKERjust post them there, they'll disappear into the void,

09:55SPEAKERand we'll see them at the end of the month.

09:58SPEAKERShould we do this first question about,

10:00SPEAKERa lot of people had cold brew suggestions for you, Brad,

10:04SPEAKERand they almost all had the same answer.

10:07SPEAKER- Yes, Spencer in DC wrote in about this.

10:10SPEAKEROh, no, oh, no.

10:12SPEAKERI looked up a pronunciation before we did this,

10:14SPEAKERso I would be prepared, I have now forgotten it.

10:19SPEAKERI think, okay, well, I'll give it my best shot.

10:21SPEAKEROkay, Spencer in DC.

10:24SPEAKERI experienced the same, the exact same,

10:26SPEAKERcold brew filtering problem

10:27SPEAKERthat Brad described in episode 205.

10:30SPEAKERWhat I was talking about was trying to filter all the junk,

10:32SPEAKERthe silt, out of my cold brew,

10:35SPEAKERand basically just having it not go through the filter

10:37SPEAKERand just kind of sit there and take forever.

10:40SPEAKERThat was the problem.

10:41SPEAKERSpencer says, "I tried a bunch of cheesecloth

10:43SPEAKERand found it all lacking in consistency and reusability.

10:47SPEAKERMy solution was the hilariously named nut milk bag.

10:51SPEAKERI originally purchased the bag to make..."

10:54SPEAKEROkay, go ahead, get it out, get it out.

10:56SPEAKER- Nut milk.

10:58SPEAKER- Are you good?

10:59SPEAKER- I think so.

11:00SPEAKER- Sure, okay, nut milk bag.

11:04SPEAKER- What kind of nuts, Brad, how do you get milk out of nuts?

11:06SPEAKER- Let's read on.

11:07SPEAKER- Okay, okay.

11:08SPEAKER- I originally purchased the bag to make orgeat,

11:11SPEAKERI believe is how you say that, O-R-G-E-A-T.

11:14SPEAKER- I would call that orgeat.

11:15SPEAKER- Is the spelling there.

11:17SPEAKEROrgeat is the pronunciation that Google gave me,

11:20SPEAKERwhich is a kind of almond syrup for my ties,

11:27SPEAKERbut it works well for cold brew filtering as well.

11:29SPEAKERI have both cotton and nylon,

11:31SPEAKERbut the nylon does work better.

11:33SPEAKER- So I looked these up and the nylon

11:35SPEAKERlooks like exactly what my cold brew filter bag

11:38SPEAKERis made out of.

11:39SPEAKER- Interesting, yeah, I looked them up too.

11:40SPEAKERIt was like 12 bucks on Amazon

11:41SPEAKERfor the kind of no-name brand one I found.

11:43SPEAKER- You can get a generic nut milk bag real cheap these days.

11:46SPEAKER- Just giving those things away.

11:47SPEAKER- Nut milking needs.

11:49SPEAKER- Do you wash it in the sink?

11:51SPEAKERLike as if it were a dish?

11:53SPEAKER- I'm sure that they come with maintenance instructions.

11:56SPEAKER- Yeah.

11:57SPEAKER- I assume you rinse them out.

11:58SPEAKERLike my Hario filter, I just chuck in the dishwasher.

12:02SPEAKER- Okay, that would probably work here too.

12:04SPEAKER- And I've been doing it for 10 years at this point.

12:06SPEAKERIt's held up fine.

12:07SPEAKER- Oh, wow.

12:08SPEAKER- Yeah.

12:09SPEAKER- You just type nut milk bag into Google,

12:10SPEAKERyou find all kinds of stuff.

12:11SPEAKER- Just make sure the bag is on there

12:12SPEAKERwhen you search for nut milk, though.

12:13SPEAKERThat's my only advice.

12:15SPEAKER- Fair, fair.

12:16SPEAKERAll right, okay.

12:19SPEAKERI want to read an email that came in last month

12:21SPEAKERthat I thought about reading last month and did not.

12:24SPEAKER- We kind of went over last month too, so.

12:26SPEAKER- I'm sure that's fascinating detail for everyone,

12:28SPEAKERbut I'm going to read it now.

12:30SPEAKERBut it is about a topic from a couple of months ago.

12:33SPEAKERThis is an email from Dawson.

12:35SPEAKERI was delighted to see this email.

12:38SPEAKER- We were both pretty excited about this email,

12:39SPEAKERI'll be honest.

12:40SPEAKER- Dawson says, "I apologize for the late email,

12:43SPEAKERbut I was listening to the Q&A show

12:45SPEAKERfrom the last week of August,

12:46SPEAKERand you mentioned you were curious

12:47SPEAKERabout the Apple Copeland process,

12:50SPEAKERand also the Microsoft Windows XP security reboot.

12:53SPEAKERAs it happens, I was there for both.

12:56SPEAKERI wrote the CD-ROM file system in 1993 for Apple Copeland,

13:00SPEAKERand I was in the peer-to-peer networking group

13:02SPEAKERduring the Microsoft security reboot around 2001,

13:05SPEAKERas I recall.

13:07SPEAKERI won't bore you with a lot of details,

13:09SPEAKERbut my impression of each was Apple Copeland pronounced

13:13SPEAKERlike the composer Aaron Copeland."

13:15SPEAKERI think I was pronouncing it Copeland

13:17SPEAKERwhen we talked about it a couple months ago.

13:18SPEAKER- I think that's, yeah, I always pronounced it Copeland too,

13:20SPEAKERso now we know.

13:21SPEAKER- Since also come to realize that error,

13:23SPEAKERbecause I've watched a bunch of YouTube videos

13:25SPEAKERabout it since then.

13:26SPEAKERApple Copeland started with a very nice microkernel

13:29SPEAKERcalled New Kernel,

13:31SPEAKERand then tried to build an OS on top of it.

13:33SPEAKERIt was bottoms up design at its worst.

13:36SPEAKERThey built clean and pretty APIs,

13:38SPEAKERbut spent years polishing the low-level APIs

13:41SPEAKERand never trying to solve a real customer problem.

13:44SPEAKERThere's a great video of Jobs being a bit ruthless,

13:46SPEAKERbut also very correct right after he returned to Apple,

13:49SPEAKERwhere he was killing projects

13:50SPEAKERand explaining that great technology

13:52SPEAKERthat does not solve a concrete customer problem is useless.

13:56SPEAKERI was in the file system group working for Steve Szymanski

14:00SPEAKERwhen I worked on this project,

14:01SPEAKERbut had left Apple to go back to grad school

14:04SPEAKERby the time Jobs arrived.

14:05SPEAKERI wasn't there for the final end of the project,

14:07SPEAKERbut the whole Copeland project seemed to be wandering around

14:10SPEAKERand lacked any sense of urgency.

14:13SPEAKERMicrosoft security month was a different story.

14:16SPEAKERFor years, Microsoft had been trying

14:17SPEAKERto make computers easier to use,

14:19SPEAKERand the mantra was, quote, it just works.

14:22SPEAKERUsually this means everything defaulted to on

14:24SPEAKERand required a little configuration to make something happen.

14:27SPEAKEROf course, this means low security.

14:30SPEAKERI had just finished designing

14:31SPEAKERthe Microsoft streaming video server

14:33SPEAKERand was completely burned out,

14:35SPEAKERso shifted over to the peer-to-peer networking group,

14:37SPEAKERwhich built network plug and play.

14:40SPEAKERThat was sort of like a computer boots broadcast itself

14:42SPEAKERto the local network,

14:43SPEAKERand then we'll run arbitrary commands from anyone

14:46SPEAKERon the network.

14:48SPEAKEROkay, that is a bit of an overstatement,

14:49SPEAKERbut not by very much,

14:50SPEAKERand there was just no way to make it secure.

14:53SPEAKERAt the same time,

14:54SPEAKERin response to several high profile virus and worm attacks,

14:58SPEAKERthe whole company stopped all new development work

15:00SPEAKERand spent a month reviewing the current code base

15:03SPEAKERfor security bugs.

15:04SPEAKERPart of the goal was to emphasize to all engineers

15:07SPEAKERthat security is now a top priority.

15:09SPEAKERWe spent the first few days doing a training course,

15:12SPEAKERwhich was really nice and did coding examples

15:14SPEAKERlike write a stack smash attack

15:16SPEAKERto use an unchecked string copy command

15:18SPEAKERto inject an executable code.

15:21SPEAKERThen we spent the rest of the month reading every line

15:23SPEAKERof our code for security weaknesses and filing bugs.

15:26SPEAKEROf course, peer-to-peer was designed to be insecure,

15:30SPEAKERso it required big changes,

15:32SPEAKERand I left soon after around 2002 to join some friends

15:35SPEAKERwho had started at VMware.

15:38SPEAKERI believe network plug and play was killed soon after this.

15:41SPEAKER- Yeah, that seems right.

15:42SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, that's right in that window

15:45SPEAKERwhere you would have been running unprotected Windows 2000

15:47SPEAKERon the internet as we have famously documented, right?

15:50SPEAKER- Yeah, I had a Windows 2000 server machine

15:53SPEAKERthat was the router for my network at home

15:56SPEAKERthat I got a nice letter from my ISP that was like,

15:58SPEAKERyo, you should probably fix that computer

16:00SPEAKER'cause it's got a bunch of nasty shit on it.

16:02SPEAKER- Yes.

16:03SPEAKER- We're gonna turn off your internet in 24 hours

16:04SPEAKERunless you do that.

16:06SPEAKER- And it's been a good long while,

16:07SPEAKERbut I think we talked about this fairly extensively

16:09SPEAKERin the ranking of Windowses, right?

16:11SPEAKERWhen we talk about XP and what a mess it was

16:13SPEAKERand how SP2, Security Pack 2, kind our system.

16:19SPEAKER- Yeah, SP2, XP, SP2, yeah.

16:21SPEAKER- SP2 was like what kind of made XP actually usable

16:24SPEAKERand somewhat secure?

16:25SPEAKER- Well, I mean, XP was good.

16:27SPEAKERThe launch was good and it was fast

16:29SPEAKERand it was Windows NT for normal people, right?

16:33SPEAKERThat was the exciting thing about it.

16:35SPEAKERBut yeah, the blaster and all the different worms

16:39SPEAKERthat came for Windows that just spread on their own.

16:41SPEAKERIt was a dark time for people without routers

16:44SPEAKERbecause also everybody just plugged their computer

16:46SPEAKER'cause they only had one computer

16:47SPEAKERdirectly into the cable modem.

16:48SPEAKERWiFi was really rare then at home.

16:51SPEAKERAnd you didn't have a laptop and a desktop

16:54SPEAKERon the same network.

16:55SPEAKERYou just plugged everything in and it all got an IP address

16:57SPEAKERthat put it out on the wild internet

16:58SPEAKERand it was like a perfect storm of bad news for Windows XP

17:03SPEAKER'cause if this had happened two years later,

17:06SPEAKERif the worms had all hit two years later,

17:08SPEAKERthen most people would've been insulated behind routers

17:10SPEAKER'cause you could buy a WRT-54G or something

17:14SPEAKERthat was 100 bucks a year or two later

17:16SPEAKERand everybody had laptops and phones and stuff

17:18SPEAKERthat were on WiFi shortly after that.

17:20SPEAKERSo if I were doing the ranking of Windows again,

17:24SPEAKERI think I might separate out Windows XP pre-SP2

17:28SPEAKERand Windows XP post-SP2 into two separate releases

17:31SPEAKER'cause sort of two wildly different approaches to network.

17:34SPEAKER- Did SP2 also, I think we covered this as well,

17:37SPEAKERdid SP2 add user accounts to XP?

17:39SPEAKER- No, XP always had user accounts.

17:41SPEAKERThat was one of the features that it brought with from XP.

17:43SPEAKER- Got it, or from T. - From 2000 and NT, yeah.

17:48SPEAKER95 had user accounts too, but there were no,

17:50SPEAKERthere was no system-level permissions and all that stuff.

17:54SPEAKER- Or even home folders then, I don't think.

17:57SPEAKER- I think you had individual user home folders,

18:02SPEAKERbut it wasn't, they weren't,

18:03SPEAKERlike the permissions didn't prohibit one user

18:05SPEAKERfrom seeing another user's home folder,

18:06SPEAKERlike on Unix or Linux.

18:10SPEAKER- Thank you to Dawson for writing in.

18:11SPEAKERI love hearing stories from people who were there.

18:14SPEAKER- Yeah, the Copeland thing is fascinating

18:18SPEAKER'cause like that's a weird time when they're like,

18:23SPEAKERyou know, Apple was in trouble, right?

18:25SPEAKER- Oh, yeah.

18:26SPEAKER- And the lack of a,

18:28SPEAKERthe fact that there was a no sense of urgency

18:30SPEAKERand presumably also somebody running the company

18:32SPEAKERwho didn't really understand what they were doing is-

18:35SPEAKER- That's John Sculley, right?

18:35SPEAKER- Yeah, I believe so, yeah.

18:37SPEAKER- Pepsi guy.

18:38SPEAKER- The Pepsi guy.

18:39SPEAKER- If you want to be selling sugared water

18:40SPEAKERfor the rest of your life, maybe he should have.

18:42SPEAKER- Yeah, would have probably been better for a lot of people,

18:45SPEAKERbut anyway, yeah, it was a, it's a lovely email.

18:47SPEAKER- Yes, yes, thank you so much.

18:49SPEAKERThere's a video on, well,

18:50SPEAKERthere's a lot of old retro computing stuff on YouTube

18:53SPEAKERthat is great these days,

18:54SPEAKERbut I'm familiar with the channel Dave's Garage,

18:57SPEAKERI believe it's called.

18:58SPEAKER- Oh, I've seen Dave's Garage before.

18:59SPEAKER- I don't watch a ton of it, but like if you have any,

19:01SPEAKERif the YouTube algorithm has in any way started biasing

19:05SPEAKERYouTube tech stuff, you're probably going to see

19:07SPEAKERsome of his like, like I wrote Windows task manager

19:10SPEAKERor you know, like the dark secrets of file explorer copy,

19:14SPEAKERlike he was a coder at Microsoft, I guess,

19:16SPEAKERbut now he largely like documents

19:19SPEAKERa lot of old Microsoft stuff.

19:21SPEAKERHe's got a, you probably know this name,

19:23SPEAKERI had not heard it before.

19:24SPEAKERHe's got a three hour interview with Dave Cutler

19:25SPEAKERthat just went up, you're familiar?

19:28SPEAKER- Wow.

19:28SPEAKER- Cutler apparently was like one of the main architects

19:30SPEAKERof Windows NT and like kind of ran all of the windows

19:34SPEAKERand not all, but like he was one of the head,

19:37SPEAKERyou know, he's like a Microsoft distinguished fellow now

19:39SPEAKERor whatever you call it, people that have kind of earned

19:42SPEAKERthe, their like legendary legacy status.

19:45SPEAKER- Microsoft stars.

19:45SPEAKERYeah, he was one of the, like there was a team

19:49SPEAKERinside Microsoft early in the nineties that was like,

19:51SPEAKERhey, we have to make a,

19:53SPEAKERlike we should be competing with Unix.

19:55SPEAKER- Yes, that's exactly so.

19:57SPEAKERSo the other Dave, I think Plumber is his last name,

20:00SPEAKERhas he posted some clips of this interview?

20:01SPEAKERI think the full one just went up last weekend

20:03SPEAKERand I haven't watched it, but like all of the clips

20:04SPEAKERhe posted are like one of them is about a bunch of the strife

20:07SPEAKERwith OS two and how poorly Microsoft and IBM people

20:11SPEAKERgot along on that project.

20:13SPEAKER- 'Cause you remember that time Microsoft was looking

20:16SPEAKERat IBM as the old funny daddies who were ruining everything,

20:18SPEAKERbut also they had this enormous still big mainframe business

20:22SPEAKERat that point.

20:23SPEAKER- And like, I think the craziest one of those clips I saw

20:24SPEAKERwas he talks about the Zenix, which I had never heard of,

20:27SPEAKERwhich apparently was a Microsoft developed version

20:29SPEAKERof Unix at the time.

20:30SPEAKERAnd they're like quite literally,

20:31SPEAKERthey were trying to decide internally,

20:33SPEAKERwhat does our successor to DOS look like?

20:36SPEAKERAnd there were, there were people advocating for,

20:37SPEAKERfor Zenix or a Unix based approach,

20:39SPEAKERlike a POSIX based approach.

20:41SPEAKER- Yeah.

20:42SPEAKER- And then windows 3.1 blew up and sold like 16 million

20:44SPEAKERcopies and then Bill Gates was like, all right,

20:47SPEAKERwe're going to do windows.

20:48SPEAKERLike we're going to do our own thing.

20:49SPEAKERWe're going to make our own windows platform

20:50SPEAKERand not do this Unix stuff.

20:52SPEAKERLike things could have gone so difficult.

20:55SPEAKER'Cause like, you know, like he's, you know,

20:56SPEAKERhe basically said like every windows up through 3.0

20:58SPEAKERwas a non-starter, like nobody bought it, nobody cared.

21:01SPEAKER- There's a sequence of time.

21:03SPEAKERThere's a sequence of events there that is,

21:06SPEAKERI don't, I don't know the cause and effect.

21:08SPEAKERI don't know that you can really look at them and say,

21:10SPEAKERHey, here's the cause and effect.

21:11SPEAKERBut like the 286 came out and it was fast enough

21:14SPEAKERto make windows 3.1 run really fast.

21:16SPEAKERAnd then the 386 came out and it was,

21:20SPEAKERit was a much better windows 3.1 experience.

21:22SPEAKERSo it's funny, we bought two Wangs

21:24SPEAKERwhen I was in senior in high school

21:26SPEAKERand one had windows 3.0 and one had windows 3.1.

21:30SPEAKERAnd I immediately just copied the windows 3.1.

21:32SPEAKERI put windows 3.1 on the 3.0 one because it was much better.

21:36SPEAKERBut those, the 386 is like, it felt like,

21:39SPEAKERit felt like a Mac did in a lot of ways.

21:41SPEAKERLike it felt performant in the same way

21:42SPEAKERthat like those old Mac classics had with the,

21:45SPEAKERwith the GUI.

21:46SPEAKER- Yeah.

21:47SPEAKER- Anyway.

21:47SPEAKER- Yeah, I got to make time to listen to that interview.

21:49SPEAKERIt seems fair.

21:50SPEAKER- Yeah, that sounds really good.

21:51SPEAKERWhat's the channel again for people?

21:53SPEAKER- I think it's just repeating it.

21:54SPEAKERLet me just Google it.

21:55SPEAKERLike I said, I don't watch it religiously.

21:58SPEAKERYeah, Steve's garage is the name of the channel.

22:00SPEAKER- I've started watching YouTube videos

22:01SPEAKERwith my daughter lately.

22:02SPEAKERAs a result, my YouTube recommendations are like,

22:06SPEAKERthere's a lot of talking animals is all I'll say.

22:08SPEAKERWe do have a lot of guinea pigs now, which is nice.

22:10SPEAKER- Okay, all right.

22:11SPEAKER- And a lot of rollercoaster, like POVs.

22:13SPEAKER- That's, that's good.

22:14SPEAKERWell, hey, let's pivot straight to this question

22:19SPEAKERfrom Costco Christmas Batter.

22:23SPEAKERWhat is the collective noun for guinea pigs?

22:27SPEAKER- Peegees?

22:28SPEAKER- Peegees is pretty popular on the internet these days,

22:31SPEAKERbut I am partial to piggies.

22:35SPEAKER- Is there an official collective noun?

22:36SPEAKER- I don't think so.

22:37SPEAKERWell, cavies, I guess like their actual,

22:40SPEAKERlike their real name is cavey.

22:41SPEAKER- Herd.

22:43SPEAKER- Cavia porcellis, I think is the, why do I know that?

22:45SPEAKER- No, no, no, that's their, that's their,

22:47SPEAKERbut the collective noun is what the group of them is called.

22:49SPEAKERIt's a herd.

22:50SPEAKER- Oh, oh, oh, yeah, yes, they are herd animals, but.

22:53SPEAKER- They are herd animals, kind of various herds.

22:54SPEAKER- I will say the daily use,

22:56SPEAKERthe daily driver around here is piggies.

22:58SPEAKERI address them directly as piggies every day.

23:02SPEAKER- Yeah, when we've, when we've,

23:03SPEAKERwhen we've pig sat for the school pigs,

23:05SPEAKERwe call them pigs.

23:06SPEAKER- Yes, I, you know, I'm not gonna lie,

23:09SPEAKERa small but significant part of the novelty

23:11SPEAKERof getting guinea pigs was having pets

23:13SPEAKERthat are called pigs.

23:15SPEAKER- I can see that.

23:15SPEAKER- Even though they're not actually pigs.

23:17SPEAKER- We had pigs briefly when I was a kid, they were nice.

23:19SPEAKERI liked having pigs, pig pigs.

23:21SPEAKER- Like actual pigs.

23:22SPEAKER- They're very, they're very personable.

23:23SPEAKER- Pork pigs.

23:25SPEAKER- So they were more eating pigs than working pigs.

23:27SPEAKER- Yes, yes.

23:28SPEAKER- Yeah, we didn't do the eating business.

23:30SPEAKERIt was, everybody got too attached and it was a problem,

23:33SPEAKERso they just went away.

23:34SPEAKER- Finding out, finding out how intelligent pigs

23:36SPEAKERare recently in life has been kind of.

23:41SPEAKER- It's for, I don't wanna, anyway.

23:43SPEAKER- Do you beg to differ?

23:44SPEAKER- I was there when the bad business happened once

23:46SPEAKERand it was, I'm good.

23:48SPEAKERLike I still like bacon, but it was a lot.

23:50SPEAKERHere's a fun fact.

23:52SPEAKERA group of ferrets is called a business.

23:56SPEAKER- We might have to end this podcast.

23:58SPEAKER(laughing)

23:59SPEAKERI don't know if I can continue on after learning.

24:01SPEAKER- Those ferrets are giving you the business, Brad.

24:04SPEAKER- I don't know if I can continue on after learning that fact.

24:09SPEAKEROkay, good stuff.

24:10SPEAKERAll right, I'm gonna go ahead and read this other one

24:13SPEAKERfrom Does It Compile Yet? real quick,

24:16SPEAKER'cause it's one more little kind of retro computing thing.

24:18SPEAKER- That's a good name.

24:19SPEAKER- That is a pretty good name.

24:20SPEAKERWhy is a wizard as in new document wizard called a wizard?

24:24SPEAKERMy Gen X brain has some association

24:26SPEAKERof an animated wizard character in late '90s Windows,

24:29SPEAKERwhich Googling suggests was part of Microsoft agent.

24:32SPEAKERBut I can't figure out if that came before

24:34SPEAKERor after Microsoft started using the word

24:36SPEAKERin the context of new document and project creation.

24:40SPEAKERI looked this up,

24:41SPEAKERat least the extent that Wikipedia documents it,

24:43SPEAKERit sounds like it is explicitly a Microsoft creation,

24:47SPEAKERbut is there more?

24:50SPEAKER- We answered this question before,

24:53SPEAKERreally, I believe.

24:54SPEAKER- God damn it.

24:55SPEAKER- No, it's okay.

24:56SPEAKERIt's been doing this for a long time.

24:57SPEAKERIt's gonna happen eventually.

25:02SPEAKERPeople called people who were good at computer stuff wizards

25:05SPEAKERcolloquially before the '90s and the '80s

25:08SPEAKERand even in the Unix days.

25:10SPEAKER- Is that where Microsoft got the name from?

25:12SPEAKERThat makes sense.

25:13SPEAKER- Yeah, I believe somebody even sent in a note

25:15SPEAKERthat was like there was a conversation

25:16SPEAKERabout system administrators in Unix land

25:18SPEAKERbeing called wizards.

25:21SPEAKERBut Microsoft took that and were like,

25:24SPEAKER"Hey, we can productize this idea."

25:26SPEAKERAnd then they made the wizards into the things

25:28SPEAKERthat told you how to connect to the internet

25:30SPEAKERor how to share connect or whatever.

25:33SPEAKER- Yeah, that kind of flow,

25:35SPEAKERthat left to right flow of clicking the next button

25:37SPEAKERand going through options seems to be a Microsoft invention.

25:40SPEAKERAlthough it sounds like Apple was using it

25:41SPEAKERaround the same time in Mac OS 8.

25:44SPEAKER- They called them doctors, I think, though, didn't they?

25:46SPEAKER- This says they were called assistants in Mac OS 8.

25:50SPEAKER- Yeah, there you go.

25:54SPEAKER- There are a small number of old Unix handbooks out there

25:58SPEAKERI may have mentioned before,

25:59SPEAKERwhere like, you know that style of like '70s, '80s,

26:01SPEAKERlike fantasy novel cover art, like that hand painted,

26:04SPEAKERreally sort of like grand looking fantasy art?

26:08SPEAKERThere are some Unix handbooks out there

26:10SPEAKERthat straight up have like wizards

26:12SPEAKERdoing a bunch of Unix shit with cauldrons and giant books

26:15SPEAKERand eldritch looking stuff that says Sudu on it.

26:20SPEAKER- Wait, you say Sudu, not Sudo?

26:23SPEAKER- We've been through this before.

26:24SPEAKER- So the Hacker's Dictionary,

26:26SPEAKERaccording to the Stack Exchange post,

26:27SPEAKERthe Hacker's Dictionary in 1982 defined a wizard as a noun,

26:32SPEAKERa person who knows how a complex piece of software

26:34SPEAKERor hardware works, someone who can find and fix his bugs

26:36SPEAKERin an emergency rarely used at MIT,

26:39SPEAKERwhere hacker is the preferred term,

26:40SPEAKERor two, a person who is permitted to do things

26:43SPEAKERforbidden to ordinary people,

26:44SPEAKERe.g. a net wizard on a 10X may run programs

26:47SPEAKERwhich speak low level host to IMP protocol,

26:50SPEAKERan advent wizard at sale may play adventure during the day.

26:53SPEAKERThere you go.

26:54SPEAKER- All right.

26:55SPEAKER- And a guy in a 1982 used Netpost described himself

26:58SPEAKERas a system wizard algedom

27:00SPEAKERfrom the Qum Corp in San Jose, California.

27:04SPEAKER- Last thing I'll mention,

27:04SPEAKERjust because I'm very proud of it to this day,

27:07SPEAKER15 years later, in the car one time, a long time ago,

27:11SPEAKERRyan and Jeff were doing some bit of,

27:14SPEAKERsome kind of top 10 wizards bit,

27:16SPEAKERwhich is very much just one of those things

27:18SPEAKERwhere Ryan was just like top 10 wizard go.

27:20SPEAKER- Just doing a riff, yeah, just doing a bit.

27:22SPEAKER- You know, there was plenty of orgo

27:23SPEAKERand shit like that in there.

27:24SPEAKERAnd then I said, install shield.

27:27SPEAKERAnd-

27:28SPEAKER- Oh shit, I almost spit out my drink.

27:29SPEAKER- It was, I just threw it, again.

27:33SPEAKER- That's a good wizard.

27:34SPEAKER- You can pat me on the head if you want,

27:35SPEAKERbut it was one of the few times

27:36SPEAKERI've really made Ryan laugh very hard.

27:38SPEAKERI felt very proud.

27:39SPEAKER- Yeah, that would have broken him.

27:42SPEAKER- Anyway.

27:43SPEAKER- That would have broken him.

27:44SPEAKER- Yes, okay.

27:47SPEAKER- Here's an email from C. Bird Song.

27:51SPEAKERThe backstory.

27:52SPEAKERMy son, seven years old, fell asleep

27:54SPEAKERon a very short car trip Saturday morning

27:56SPEAKERand he was super grumpy for the rest of the day,

27:58SPEAKERwhich struck us as odd.

28:00SPEAKERHe was awake when we got out of bed at 6.30

28:02SPEAKERand didn't remember when he woke up,

28:05SPEAKERbut I realized I could figure it out

28:07SPEAKERusing motion sensor data in home assistant's log book.

28:11SPEAKERThis showed that he left his room at 1 a.m.

28:14SPEAKERand proceeded to play Mario in the living room until dawn.

28:17SPEAKER(laughing)

28:19SPEAKERQuestion, is it creepy to have detailed logs of movement

28:23SPEAKERfor nearly every room in your house?

28:25SPEAKERIt sort of feels like connecting my Hue and Ecobee stuff

28:28SPEAKERto home assistant accidentally created a Panopticon.

28:32SPEAKER- So, okay.

28:34SPEAKERSeven year old is under the Panopticon age.

28:37SPEAKERIt's okay, as long as you don't know.

28:39SPEAKERMy rule on this is, as the parent here,

28:43SPEAKERis that if the children don't know

28:45SPEAKERthat you're surveilling them, it's okay.

28:47SPEAKERThat said, but the moment they realize

28:50SPEAKERthat something's watching them,

28:51SPEAKERyou gotta take the camera out or you're gonna make 'em

28:53SPEAKERparanoid.

28:55SPEAKERWe got rid of all the, I let all the batteries

28:58SPEAKERon the motion sensors in our house run out

29:00SPEAKERand haven't put batteries back in a long time ago

29:02SPEAKERbecause I was tired of having motion logs

29:04SPEAKERfor every room in the house for specifically this reason.

29:07SPEAKERAlso, it may not have been your son playing Mario,

29:11SPEAKERcould have been the cat or the dog walking around

29:13SPEAKERtriggering the motion sensors.

29:17SPEAKERYeah.

29:18SPEAKER- Is it, is it? - I don't know.

29:19SPEAKER- Well, I mean, I'm sure it depends on the sensor,

29:20SPEAKERbut is it actually granular enough to tell you,

29:22SPEAKERlike, here's the size of the entity moving around

29:24SPEAKERand things like that, or?

29:26SPEAKER- So the hardwired ones that have more power,

29:29SPEAKERthat have full-time power connections,

29:30SPEAKERgenerally are better than the battery operated ones.

29:33SPEAKERThe battery operated ones are usually like,

29:35SPEAKERhey, is there any motion above a certain threshold?

29:37SPEAKERSo you, like, the ones that I have have a knob on the back

29:40SPEAKERthat you turn to tune so that it doesn't detect your pets,

29:44SPEAKERbut it does detect your people.

29:47SPEAKERMy daughter wasn't big enough until she was like four

29:50SPEAKERto trigger the ones that,

29:52SPEAKERto trigger it when it wouldn't pick up the dog.

29:56SPEAKERAlso your kid, it sounds cool,

29:57SPEAKERif he was playing Mario from like 1 a.m. until 6.30,

30:00SPEAKERthat's all, like, I think, I think,

30:04SPEAKERlike the takeaway from this is maybe when he gets up

30:06SPEAKERin the middle of the night and can't sleep,

30:07SPEAKERyou should suggest that he comes in and wakes you up

30:09SPEAKERinstead of going and playing Mario.

30:11SPEAKERBut I mean, look, man, I've done that.

30:13SPEAKER- You know, I think it's probably possible

30:15SPEAKERthis was not a response to being unable to sleep,

30:17SPEAKERthat this was more a targeted effort to play more Mario,

30:21SPEAKERwhich I get.

30:22SPEAKER- I don't, like, that age kid, though,

30:24SPEAKERit's like 1 a.m. is,

30:26SPEAKERmy daughter wouldn't have exactly understood

30:28SPEAKERwhat 1 a.m. was when she was seven, though, I don't think.

30:30SPEAKER- Fair, fair.

30:31SPEAKER- She would've just been like, oh, I'm up,

30:32SPEAKERit's time to go do something, oh, mom and dad are asleep,

30:34SPEAKERstill, I'll go in the living room.

30:35SPEAKER- Yeah, fair.

30:36SPEAKER- And then she would've sat on her iPad for five hours.

30:38SPEAKER- Yes.

30:39SPEAKER- And also been very grumpy the next day.

30:41SPEAKER- Yeah.

30:42SPEAKER- That's amazing, though.

30:43SPEAKER- Yeah, it's a pretty good one.

30:44SPEAKERWhat is the use case for those motion sensors

30:47SPEAKERthat you have, for example, like, is it just for security,

30:49SPEAKERis there something else I'm missing?

30:51SPEAKER- No, so when the kiddo was little

30:53SPEAKERand we were carrying a wet baby around all the time,

30:56SPEAKERthey'd flip on the lights in the room when you walked in.

30:59SPEAKERSo we'd turn off, like, you carry a wet baby

31:02SPEAKERout of the bathroom and into the bedroom

31:06SPEAKERand you put 'em down and you don't have to, like,

31:08SPEAKERfumble with the light switch or anything, it just turns on.

31:12SPEAKERBut, like, now we're older, and also the response time

31:15SPEAKERon, like, my watch for Siri to turn on lights

31:18SPEAKERwith home assistance, it's a direct connection now,

31:20SPEAKERis 10, 15 milliseconds or something,

31:24SPEAKERso I just ask my watch to do it usually.

31:25SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, me too.

31:31SPEAKERHow about, got a couple of screen questions here.

31:34SPEAKER- We got a lot of screen feedback after the episode

31:36SPEAKERlast week talking about 40 hertz mode.

31:38SPEAKER- Yes, okay, here's a question

31:39SPEAKERfrom Julian Wheels about that subject.

31:41SPEAKERWill asked me to submit this question about 30 hertz gaming

31:44SPEAKERbased on the discussion around 40 hertz mode.

31:47SPEAKERIf you have a basic 60 hertz monitor without VRR,

31:49SPEAKERthat's variable refresh rate,

31:52SPEAKERand you cannot run a game consistently at 60 FPS,

31:55SPEAKERis it better to lock it to 30 hertz

31:56SPEAKERto avoid screen tearing and other artifacts?

31:59SPEAKERAny other recommended settings under the situation?

32:02SPEAKER- So I realized as we were answering questions

32:04SPEAKERabout this this week in the Discord

32:06SPEAKERthat we didn't explicitly say something.

32:09SPEAKERThe 40 hertz mode works on most gaming monitors

32:11SPEAKERbecause you run them at 120 hertz.

32:13SPEAKEREither they have variable refresh rate

32:15SPEAKERand can run at any refresh rate from a low number

32:17SPEAKERup to the maximum supported speed,

32:21SPEAKERor they run at a locked 120 hertz

32:23SPEAKERand then they just repeat each frame three times

32:26SPEAKERinstead of four.

32:27SPEAKER- Yeah, I think we touched on that a little bit,

32:29SPEAKERbut maybe not super directly.

32:32SPEAKERBut the thing I had forgotten was that VRR

32:34SPEAKERis another way to do 40 hertz.

32:36SPEAKERIn my mind, you have to have 120 hertz screen,

32:38SPEAKERbut I think you mentioned at some point

32:40SPEAKERthe Steam Deck does not have that, right?

32:42SPEAKER- Well, so the Steam Deck, it turns out,

32:44SPEAKERhas a 60 hertz and a 40 hertz mode, and that's it.

32:46SPEAKERThere's no variable refresh rate beyond those two.

32:49SPEAKER- Interesting.

32:49SPEAKER- And apparently that was one of their early specs,

32:51SPEAKER'cause when people have asked them

32:52SPEAKERwhy there's not an OLED version of the Steam Deck,

32:55SPEAKERit's specific, like they specifically said

32:56SPEAKERwe couldn't find an OLED that did 60 hertz and 40 hertz.

32:59SPEAKER- Interesting.

33:00SPEAKEROkay, so the thing you're describing here

33:04SPEAKERbasically being on a 60 hertz monitor without VRR

33:07SPEAKERand not being able to consistently hit 60,

33:09SPEAKERthat's the first 15 or 20 years of PC gaming for me,

33:13SPEAKERlike that was the eternal struggle, right?

33:15SPEAKER- Yeah, all the Glide days were 30 hertz to maybe 35.

33:20SPEAKER- Yes, that was the problem for the first however many years

33:23SPEAKERof 3D rendering on PC was that was all you had,

33:27SPEAKERand so you constantly were making decisions around,

33:31SPEAKERlike basically if you could hit 60 and over consistently,

33:33SPEAKERyou would turn on v-sync,

33:35SPEAKERbecause then you would get consistent 60 and never tear.

33:38SPEAKER- Maybe a little bit of mouse lag.

33:39SPEAKER- But when you have v-sync on at 60 and you drop to 30,

33:43SPEAKERor I'm sorry, I'm sorry, when you have v-sync on

33:45SPEAKERand you're at 60 and drop at all, not to 30,

33:48SPEAKERbut like drop even like two frames,

33:50SPEAKERyou're instantly down to 30,

33:52SPEAKERbecause it can only, when you're doing vertical sync,

33:54SPEAKERit can only draw to the monitor, like we said.

33:58SPEAKER- Well, except CRTs, which we were using in the 90s

34:01SPEAKERand early 2000s, you could set to whatever refresh rate

34:04SPEAKERyou wanted between like 30 and 60 hertz.

34:05SPEAKER- Yeah.

34:06SPEAKER- So they were, but also nobody cared

34:08SPEAKERabout this shit back then, is the other thing.

34:10SPEAKER- Or we didn't know that it could be better,

34:12SPEAKERyou know, like there was nothing on the market.

34:13SPEAKERYou just put up with it because there was nothing out there

34:16SPEAKERthat alleviated this.

34:17SPEAKERThat was kind of the big hubbub around G-Sync

34:20SPEAKERwhen Nvidia first rolled that out,

34:21SPEAKERand then free sync came along as an open standard,

34:23SPEAKERyou know, now it's in the HDMI.

34:25SPEAKER- And VRR.

34:25SPEAKER- HDMI, VRR is another version of that.

34:27SPEAKERLike that was the whole hubbub was like,

34:29SPEAKERhey, now it doesn't matter if your game's performance

34:31SPEAKERis going up and down based on complexity,

34:34SPEAKERbecause the screen will just sync

34:36SPEAKERto whatever the game's putting out.

34:37SPEAKER- Yeah, and that's exactly it.

34:39SPEAKERSo it took us 20 years of bad LCD panels

34:42SPEAKERto realize that we could do better, basically.

34:44SPEAKER- Yes.

34:45SPEAKER- But so the other option for the 60 hertz folks

34:48SPEAKERis something, what do you call it?

34:52SPEAKER- Triple buffering, is that what you're trying to think of?

34:54SPEAKER- No.

34:55SPEAKEROh, on the, triple buffering definitely increases mouse lag.

34:58SPEAKERYou don't want to do triple buffering with games.

35:00SPEAKER- Like when you turn it on in the Nvidia control panel,

35:02SPEAKERit's straight up says like,

35:03SPEAKERthere will be more latency with this.

35:05SPEAKER- Yeah, and it's not, it doesn't feel good.

35:08SPEAKERIt often feels like you're like playing games through soup

35:10SPEAKERwhen you're playing with a mouse and keyboard.

35:12SPEAKERThe, oh God, what are the people

35:14SPEAKERthat do the visual comparisons?

35:16SPEAKER- Digital Foundry?

35:17SPEAKER- Digital Foundry, Digital Foundry did a thing last year

35:19SPEAKERwith Forza Horizon, the Forza Horizon game

35:22SPEAKERthat came out last year or the year before,

35:23SPEAKERwhere they compared 60 hertz locked to 30 hertz

35:26SPEAKERwith motion blur and everything turned up higher.

35:28SPEAKERThey were like the 30 hertz with motion blur looks better

35:30SPEAKERand is indistinguishable from the 60 hertz,

35:33SPEAKERwhich got them a lot of really angry letters.

35:35SPEAKER- I don't know.

35:36SPEAKER- Yeah, I know that's what I've already said.

35:37SPEAKERAnd then I tried it and I was like, oh yeah, okay.

35:40SPEAKERThis, I can't tell the difference here.

35:41SPEAKERAlso, I have a computer that can run it

35:43SPEAKERat like 200 frames a second with everything turned on.

35:45SPEAKERSo I turned motion blur off immediately.

35:47SPEAKERBut the big takeaway from this whole thing

35:50SPEAKERis I realized I have like three basic modes

35:52SPEAKERfor games that I play.

35:53SPEAKERI have, I'm playing a first person game

35:56SPEAKERthat is a multiplayer game like Fortnite or PUBG

35:59SPEAKERor a shooter of some kind where frames matter.

36:01SPEAKERAnd then that mode is frame rate at all costs, right?

36:05SPEAKERAs more frames wins games.

36:08SPEAKERIt's a Nvidia marketing line, but they're probably right.

36:11SPEAKERThe second mode is I'm playing a single player thing

36:14SPEAKERthat has a bunch of ray tracing and all sorts of stuff

36:16SPEAKERthat's going to make the performance really bad.

36:18SPEAKERAnd I want that to look really good.

36:19SPEAKERSo I run that at like 30 to 60 frames per second,

36:25SPEAKERdepending on what the machine will run

36:27SPEAKERwith everything turned all the way up.

36:28SPEAKERAnd I'm stoked about that.

36:30SPEAKERNow, the in-between are the games that are like

36:34SPEAKERkind of pretty good, like high quality graphics,

36:37SPEAKERrequires some performance,

36:38SPEAKERmaybe not like a Hades or a Dead Cells,

36:41SPEAKERbut like a tear up.

36:43SPEAKERGhostrunner is a good example of this, right?

36:45SPEAKERIt's like a game that requires some Twitch input matters.

36:52SPEAKERFighting games fit in this category for me a lot of times,

36:54SPEAKER'cause I'm not very good at them,

36:56SPEAKERwhere you're locked to 60 hertz on Mortal Kombat or whatever

36:59SPEAKERbecause of the way the fighting stuff works.

37:01SPEAKERSo you can turn some stuff up,

37:02SPEAKERbut you're not going to go completely ham

37:05SPEAKERon ray tracing, whatever nonsense they have.

37:08SPEAKERAnd for me, all games slot into one of those three spots,

37:12SPEAKEReither extreme performance, extreme graphics,

37:16SPEAKERor kind of middle of the road.

37:18SPEAKERAnd the extreme on either side are both pretty easy,

37:22SPEAKERbut the middle of the road is really complicated.

37:24SPEAKERAnd often like GeForce Experience or the AMD tool

37:28SPEAKERthat sets your game settings for whatever hardware you have,

37:33SPEAKERthis generally gives you a pretty good place

37:35SPEAKERto start with that.

37:36SPEAKER- Yeah.

37:38SPEAKERYeah, I think, I mean, not to get back into it,

37:40SPEAKERI think that's what was leading to some of the strife

37:43SPEAKERaround Alan Wake is like, I mean, they said flat out,

37:46SPEAKERlike, hey, we conceived this

37:47SPEAKERas a 30 frames per second experience.

37:48SPEAKERThis is story-driven.

37:50SPEAKERThe gameplay is fairly slow and methodical.

37:52SPEAKERSo, but then people that play games on PCs saw like,

37:55SPEAKERyou know, a 30, 60 is only going to get you 30 FPS

37:58SPEAKERat whatever on medium or whatever,

38:00SPEAKERand like kind of lost their minds when like,

38:02SPEAKERhey, that's what console players are getting.

38:03SPEAKERLike that's kind of, that's the extent,

38:05SPEAKERthe intended experience here.

38:07SPEAKER- I'm going to say more frame rate is not always better.

38:11SPEAKERLike that, like this is a controversial take.

38:13SPEAKERI make games, I have to deal with people coming

38:15SPEAKERinto the discord and being like, hey man,

38:17SPEAKERI'm only getting 120 frames a second

38:19SPEAKERon my three-year-old video card at ultra settings.

38:22SPEAKERWhat am I doing wrong?

38:23SPEAKERThis is not acceptable performance for this machine.

38:25SPEAKERI'm like, you need to disengage your feelings of self-worth

38:29SPEAKERfrom the hardware in your computer and just enjoy the game.

38:31SPEAKER- That very much is kind of the read I'm getting

38:34SPEAKERon some of the anger out there is that people think

38:36SPEAKERthat they refuse to debase themselves by playing on medium.

38:39SPEAKERBut like, I feel like that's like a whole other conversation

38:41SPEAKERis that like the, what constitutes a good looking graphics

38:46SPEAKERpreset on PC has like, like has moved up so much

38:50SPEAKERor I guess moved down actually is what I should say.

38:52SPEAKERLike, like low and medium PC games look pretty

38:54SPEAKERdamn good these days.

38:56SPEAKER- The thing that's happened is nobody can ship a mode

38:59SPEAKERthat will look good in two generations

39:02SPEAKERbecause people get the game and they put it on that mode.

39:05SPEAKERAnd they're like, shit, this is only running

39:06SPEAKERthree frames a second.

39:07SPEAKERThis is, this game's going to get a bad review.

39:09SPEAKERSo nobody, like the thing that Crysis did

39:12SPEAKERwhere they were like, okay, we have two modes here

39:13SPEAKERthat are explicitly designed for next generation

39:16SPEAKERand next next generation hardware.

39:18SPEAKERYou literally can't do because it will tank your game

39:22SPEAKERlike from a commercial stance sense.

39:24SPEAKERSo yeah, we just get something ultra is designed

39:26SPEAKERto run on bog standard as hardware for most games.

39:29SPEAKERAnd we're hitting a wall partly because the pandemic

39:33SPEAKERslowed people's upgrade cycles and the availability

39:35SPEAKERof GPUs for a long time.

39:37SPEAKERAnd partly because the consoles are actually

39:40SPEAKERreasonably capable now that like, if you want

39:43SPEAKERto run something that's designed to run on an Xbox Series X,

39:46SPEAKERyou need a machine that's relatively beefy

39:48SPEAKERbecause they have bottlenecks in different places

39:51SPEAKERand the PC has to brute force through that stuff.

39:53SPEAKERSo like, you know, your direct storage and all that,

39:55SPEAKERlike you don't, most people don't have that stuff

39:58SPEAKERand shit's going to be weird as a result of it.

40:00SPEAKERSo you have to have a lot more video card

40:01SPEAKERthan you would have to otherwise in a lot of cases.

40:03SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, I mean, it was always,

40:05SPEAKERafter the last generation was so long,

40:07SPEAKERit was always going to be bumpy when we finally made

40:10SPEAKERthe shift, right, to games exclusive to the new machines

40:13SPEAKERbeing ported to PC.

40:14SPEAKER- And, but just to be clear, anytime somebody comes in

40:17SPEAKERand is like, oh, I'm getting, I'm not getting

40:20SPEAKERmore than 60 frames per second in a game

40:22SPEAKERand it's not like a competitive esports game,

40:25SPEAKERI assume that they're a crank.

40:28SPEAKER- That's fair.

40:29SPEAKER- Yeah. - That's fair.

40:31SPEAKER- Cue the angry Kotaku story.

40:32SPEAKER- Yeah, all right.

40:34SPEAKEROne more question from Xander here in this vein

40:36SPEAKERbefore we move on.

40:38SPEAKERSo I'm about to build a new PC.

40:40SPEAKERHopefully by the next Q&A, I'll be done.

40:42SPEAKERI'm moving from an Nvidia 1080 to a 4080

40:45SPEAKERand now have a dilemma.

40:47SPEAKERDo I primarily use my 27 inch 144 Hertz 1440p display

40:52SPEAKERor my 30 inch 4K 60 Hertz display

40:55SPEAKERfor playing, quote, pretty games?

40:58SPEAKERIs better frame rate more enjoyable than more pixels?

41:02SPEAKER- Okay, so when I built my desk, I had this problem

41:05SPEAKER'cause I have a 1080p 360 Hertz display

41:08SPEAKERthat I play competitive games on

41:09SPEAKERand I have a 4K 60 Hertz display that is,

41:14SPEAKERit doesn't support HDR.

41:15SPEAKERSo I would play the pretty games

41:17SPEAKERon whichever display supports HDR probably

41:19SPEAKERis the first answer to the question.

41:21SPEAKER- Owning a good screen that does good HDR now

41:23SPEAKERfor the last like almost month or so now,

41:25SPEAKERlike I have 100,000% you should play the games

41:28SPEAKERon whatever has good HDR

41:29SPEAKER'cause that is by far in years the most profound

41:33SPEAKERlike visible improvements to presentation I have seen.

41:36SPEAKER- Yeah, the other thing I'll say

41:38SPEAKERis that if you're running like super sampling

41:40SPEAKERto increase the density per pixel,

41:42SPEAKERlike the number of pixels

41:43SPEAKERthat are used to render each pixel on the screen,

41:46SPEAKERyou probably get exactly the same image quality

41:49SPEAKERfrom a 1440p display and a 4K display

41:54SPEAKERwithout having to render 30% of the frames or whatever.

41:58SPEAKERI can't remember what the pixel differences

42:00SPEAKERbetween 1440p and 4K, but it's a lot.

42:02SPEAKERSo your room will be less hot

42:04SPEAKERif you play games on the 1440p display.

42:08SPEAKERBut so when I did the desk,

42:10SPEAKERI set it up with the up and down monitor.

42:12SPEAKERSo the 4K one's on top and the 1080p one's on the bottom

42:15SPEAKERand I can flip them.

42:16SPEAKERI could theoretically, if I wanted to do it

42:18SPEAKERand make my cables a giant nightmare,

42:20SPEAKERI can flip the, like rotate the monitors 180 degrees.

42:24SPEAKERI've done it twice 'cause it's a huge pain in the ass.

42:28SPEAKERAnd the 1080p monitor is fine it turns out.

42:30SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm not gonna say I've been 100% 4K pilled,

42:33SPEAKERbut I am definitely starting to lean more toward

42:36SPEAKERresolution being more important, like eliminating shimmer

42:39SPEAKERin high frequency detail, like getting a much cleaner,

42:42SPEAKERmore stable image is actually pretty nice once you see it.

42:45SPEAKER- Well, but if you're running,

42:46SPEAKERif you're internally rendering the game at 4K

42:48SPEAKERon your 1440p display and then sampling down to 1440p,

42:52SPEAKERit's the same, you're gonna reduce the shimmer the same way.

42:55SPEAKER- To be clear, I'm including 1440p

42:56SPEAKERand high resolution there.

42:57SPEAKER- Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

42:58SPEAKER- Above 1080p basically.

43:00SPEAKER- Yeah.

43:01SPEAKER- And also like modern upscaling

43:03SPEAKERand reconstruction techniques are getting extremely good.

43:06SPEAKER- Yeah, like I'm probably,

43:07SPEAKERat some point in the not terribly distant future,

43:09SPEAKERI'm probably gonna replace the 1080p 360 display

43:12SPEAKERwith a 1440 360 just because it would be nice

43:15SPEAKERto have more pixels, mainly for desktop use.

43:18SPEAKER- Yeah, that was kind of something people were upset about

43:20SPEAKERin these specs is Remedy was quoting DLSS numbers.

43:23SPEAKERThey were basically saying like,

43:24SPEAKERhey, on a 3070, I'm trying to remember from memory here,

43:28SPEAKERI think it was on a 3070, you get 60 FPS at 1080p

43:31SPEAKERwith DLSS performance mode or balance mode rather,

43:35SPEAKERwhich led to a bunch of people running around screaming like,

43:38SPEAKERoh, my card can only run this at 540p.

43:41SPEAKERIt's like, maybe in the like early days

43:44SPEAKERof checkerboard rendering,

43:45SPEAKERyou might have had an argument there,

43:46SPEAKERbut like when you're quoting

43:47SPEAKERthe internal rendering resolution,

43:49SPEAKERwhen DLSS is as good at upscaling the image as it is,

43:52SPEAKERlike, I don't know that that's like.

43:54SPEAKER- 540p feels like a low end for DLSS

43:57SPEAKERto do the thing that it does though.

43:58SPEAKER- Well, that is the math there.

43:59SPEAKERLike balanced is.

44:02SPEAKER- It's 540 to 1080.

44:04SPEAKER- I think balanced is exactly 50% of output resolution.

44:08SPEAKERBut the point is though, you're not looking at 540p,

44:11SPEAKERyou're looking at 1080p like.

44:13SPEAKER- Yeah, it's just half of the pixels are made up.

44:15SPEAKER- Like the, you know, side by side comparisons

44:17SPEAKERbeing what they are.

44:18SPEAKERLike, I don't know that I can say DLSS 1080p

44:20SPEAKERis really worse than native at this point.

44:23SPEAKER- Yeah, it's definitely better than native with no AA,

44:26SPEAKERI think.

44:27SPEAKER- Yeah.

44:28SPEAKER- I, yeah, I don't know.

44:30SPEAKERThat kind of like, look, there's a lot of weird drama

44:33SPEAKERthat happens in PC gaming spaces

44:35SPEAKERbecause the Reddits around those places are really toxic.

44:39SPEAKERSo.

44:39SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.

44:40SPEAKERSorry, did not mean to devote this much of the show

44:43SPEAKERto that topic, but I've been seeing a lot of it.

44:46SPEAKER- Yeah.

44:48SPEAKER- Okay, here is a more conceptual screen related question

44:53SPEAKERfrom Roland Staszak.

44:57SPEAKERIf the primary colors that make up all colors

44:59SPEAKERare red, yellow, and blue,

45:01SPEAKERI'm gonna grant his if there 'cause I didn't know that,

45:04SPEAKERbut I'll take that as true.

45:06SPEAKERIf the primary colors that make up all colors

45:08SPEAKERare red, yellow, and blue,

45:09SPEAKERwhy does display technology rely on red, green, and blue?

45:13SPEAKERWhy isn't it RYB instead of RGB?

45:18SPEAKER- I'm gonna asterisk this 'cause I'm not an expert,

45:20SPEAKERbut I did some reading.

45:21SPEAKER- Okay.

45:23SPEAKER- The most common answer to this question on the internet,

45:28SPEAKERand the thing that I initially thought

45:29SPEAKERwhen I saw the question, is monitors are emissive,

45:34SPEAKERso they're additive color.

45:35SPEAKERYou're taking three light sources,

45:37SPEAKERand theoretically taking three light sources,

45:39SPEAKERthree sub-pixels, and combining them

45:41SPEAKERto produce the combination of those two colors.

45:44SPEAKERWhen you talk about RYB,

45:46SPEAKERyou're not really talking about RYB.

45:48SPEAKERYou're talking about CMYK, really, in a modern sense.

45:51SPEAKERYou're talking about subtractive color,

45:53SPEAKERwhich is reflections.

45:54SPEAKERSo the dyes are absorbing colors at certain frequencies,

45:58SPEAKERwhich would result in the other colors

46:00SPEAKERbeing reflected back to you,

46:02SPEAKERwhich is why your color wheel on paper

46:05SPEAKERis red, yellow, and blue,

46:07SPEAKERand your color wheel with the light is red, green, and blue.

46:09SPEAKER- Interesting, I guess basically what you're saying

46:11SPEAKERis print on paper absorbs light,

46:13SPEAKERwhereas your monitor is putting out light.

46:16SPEAKER- Yes, exactly.

46:20SPEAKERThe color wheel for additive and subtractive color,

46:24SPEAKERor generative and reflected color is different.

46:34SPEAKERAlso, Sharp did TVs with Y pixels a few years ago,

46:38SPEAKERand literally nobody liked them,

46:39SPEAKERbecause they looked weird.

46:42SPEAKER- Interesting.

46:43SPEAKER- There's also a lot of theory about the RGB

46:46SPEAKERbeing because of the sensitivity of your eye

46:48SPEAKERto certain color wavelengths,

46:50SPEAKERbut it turns out that's not the case,

46:51SPEAKER'cause if that was the case,

46:52SPEAKERyou would actually probably do yellow, green, and blue,

46:55SPEAKERbut then we wouldn't be able to have reds on our displays,

46:57SPEAKERand a world without red would,

47:00SPEAKERI mean, what would all the little circles

47:01SPEAKERthat have the big numbers next to them,

47:03SPEAKERwhat color would they be, purple?

47:05SPEAKER- What color would we use for that?

47:07SPEAKER- Madness.

47:08SPEAKER- What would be the stop color in a world without red?

47:10SPEAKERI cannot tell you.

47:13SPEAKERIt's lightened up here a little bit, Fantome 86.

47:17SPEAKERIf you were a fruit, what fruit would you be?

47:19SPEAKERMy five-year-old has loved this question for years.

47:23SPEAKER- Oh, man.

47:24SPEAKER- I don't know why the two fruits that come to your life,

47:27SPEAKERfirst, the first thing that came to mind was a kumquat,

47:29SPEAKERand I don't even know what a kumquat is,

47:30SPEAKERI just think it's a funny name.

47:31SPEAKER- So it's a little citrus, isn't it?

47:34SPEAKER- Is it?

47:35SPEAKER- I think so.

47:36SPEAKER- Yes, as a matter of fact,

47:37SPEAKERit looks like a tiny citrus fruit of some kind.

47:41SPEAKERThe other one that came to mind is a kiwi fruit,

47:43SPEAKERbecause being a fuzzy fruit would be pretty fun.

47:45SPEAKER- Dude, I would like being fuzzy,

47:46SPEAKERit could be a peach too, though.

47:47SPEAKER- Peaches, peaches are fuzzy.

47:49SPEAKER- I like peaches a lot, man, what fruit would I be?

47:52SPEAKERAm I sour?

47:53SPEAKERI might be sour.

47:56SPEAKERI don't know if I'm sour or not,

47:58SPEAKERI don't know what fruit I would be,

47:59SPEAKERI've never, I'm always bad at these.

48:03SPEAKERWow.

48:05SPEAKERI think, okay, so I don't think I'm a banana,

48:09SPEAKER'cause I'm not soft, I am mushy, but I'm not that soft,

48:12SPEAKERand I'm not green ever, so I'm out there.

48:17SPEAKERI really like apples a lot, I do bruise easily.

48:21SPEAKERI have a thin skin, actually, that's not true,

48:24SPEAKERmy skin's pretty thick.

48:27SPEAKERI don't know if I have seeds inside, I've never looked,

48:29SPEAKERbut probably, why not?

48:30SPEAKER- This is getting exhaustively analytical.

48:34SPEAKER- I'm gonna go with apple, specifically,

48:39SPEAKERmaybe either a Honeycrisp or a Fuji.

48:43SPEAKER- Yeah, those are the good-- - Crisp, a little tart.

48:45SPEAKER- I would say those are probably the good apples.

48:47SPEAKERI mean, there are other good apples,

48:48SPEAKERbut I think-- - Cortlands are nice.

48:49SPEAKER- Fuji, I guess Fuji's probably our default apple

48:53SPEAKERaround here. - If I'm eating,

48:54SPEAKERit's a Fuji or a Honeycrisp, usually.

48:56SPEAKER- Yeah. - If I'm baking,

48:57SPEAKERit's a Cortland or a Macintosh with some Granny Smiths

49:00SPEAKERto add some structure.

49:01SPEAKER- Favorite basic apple preparation,

49:03SPEAKERlike not just picking it up and biting it--

49:05SPEAKER- Pie? - But also not making a pie,

49:06SPEAKERI mean, just kind of a, like a more in-between,

49:10SPEAKERlike I'm not just going to pick this apple up

49:12SPEAKERand eat it around the core, but like,

49:14SPEAKERI'm going to spend, say, less than five minutes

49:16SPEAKERturning this into something.

49:17SPEAKER- Did you ever do the thing

49:18SPEAKERwhere you knocked out most of the core

49:20SPEAKERand then filled the hole with brown sugar and cinnamon

49:21SPEAKERand then wrapped it in foil and put it in a campfire?

49:24SPEAKER- No, but I've been doing that with peanut butter.

49:25SPEAKERWell, not the campfire part,

49:27SPEAKERbut I've been coring an apple

49:29SPEAKERand filling that with peanut butter recently.

49:32SPEAKER- I like slices with peanut butter on 'em.

49:34SPEAKER- Yeah, that too. - Although sometimes slidey,

49:35SPEAKERthe peanut butter slides off. - Yes, yes it does.

49:38SPEAKER- There's probably a technique to make that better.

49:41SPEAKER- What's your-- - I love a fried apple.

49:43SPEAKER- Okay, ooh, oh wait, like a glaze, not a glaze,

49:46SPEAKERbut I mean like a-- - Like you saute it, I guess.

49:47SPEAKER- Saute that, yes, yes. - Put a little baking powder

49:49SPEAKERon the outside so they brown up.

49:50SPEAKER- Yes, also very good. - Yeah.

49:54SPEAKER- What's your peanut butter preference

49:56SPEAKERsince I'm just randomly asking questions about food?

49:59SPEAKER- I live in a creamy house, but I'm a crunchy peanut butter.

50:03SPEAKERI like unsweetened, it turns out.

50:04SPEAKER- Yes, I've become a purist.

50:07SPEAKERI preach. - Just grind it up yourself.

50:09SPEAKER- Oh man, I didn't even think about that, actually.

50:10SPEAKERI guess that would be possible.

50:12SPEAKERI bet, yes, I try to buy peanut butter

50:14SPEAKERthat says one ingredient switches peanuts

50:16SPEAKERand nothing goes. - Yes.

50:18SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't like having to stir up the grease, though.

50:20SPEAKER- Oh, I think we just talked about this, didn't we?

50:22SPEAKER- 'Cause maybe like three years ago, it's been a while.

50:24SPEAKER- Started mentioning my favorite brand,

50:25SPEAKERand I think jogging some memories here.

50:28SPEAKER- I just, well, so we switched to Jif Natural

50:30SPEAKERwhen the kiddo was born, 'cause we'd go through

50:31SPEAKERa lot more peanut butter now,

50:33SPEAKERand the stuff we used before was, A, too expensive,

50:35SPEAKERand we got tired, like literally both of us

50:38SPEAKERgot tired of stirring up the oil into it.

50:41SPEAKER- Oh, have I told you the trick, turn the jar upside down?

50:44SPEAKER- Yeah, but then you just have the oil

50:46SPEAKERon the bottom of the jar, right?

50:47SPEAKER- Well, so if you really wanna be hardcore about this,

50:49SPEAKER(laughing)

50:51SPEAKERyou preload, like you try to anticipate

50:53SPEAKERwhen you're gonna need to open the next jar of peanut butter

50:55SPEAKERand then invert it once a day for like three or four days

50:58SPEAKERbefore you open it and stir it.

50:59SPEAKER- That's insanity, Brad.

51:01SPEAKER- What, oh yeah, every time I'm in the kitchen--

51:02SPEAKER- How much free time do you have, holy shit.

51:04SPEAKER- Yes, the two seconds it takes to notice

51:07SPEAKERthe upside down peanut butter jar and turn it over.

51:10SPEAKER- Do you, is one of you the designated peanut butter flipper

51:13SPEAKERor do you like flip and then re-flip?

51:14SPEAKER- It's me, and I am also the designated initial stirrer,

51:17SPEAKERwhich is, like I'm gonna tell you,

51:19SPEAKERit is significantly easier if you do that

51:21SPEAKERat least a couple days in advance.

51:23SPEAKERLike for one, I guess it must help infuse

51:27SPEAKERsome of the peanut butter, the oil into the peanut butter.

51:29SPEAKER- Yeah, look, what do you do with yogurt?

51:31SPEAKERWhen you get it, when you open a tub of yogurt

51:33SPEAKERand you've got the liquid in there

51:35SPEAKERthat's on top of the-- - The whole thing.

51:38SPEAKER- I caught my daughter the other day pouring that out,

51:39SPEAKERI was like, what the hell are you doing?

51:41SPEAKER- What are you doing?

51:42SPEAKER- That's all the good stuff, it's the way.

51:44SPEAKER- Yeah, oh, the way, that's the name for that, right?

51:46SPEAKER- Yeah.

51:47SPEAKER- Okay, okay, let's bring this home

51:48SPEAKERand then we'll move on to something else.

51:50SPEAKER- Okay, serious talks.

51:52SPEAKER- I'm sure you're familiar with the,

51:54SPEAKERI think it's mostly Sabra is the big brand of hummus.

51:57SPEAKERI'm sure others do this as well

51:59SPEAKERwhere they'll sell roasted garlic and pine nut hummus,

52:04SPEAKERbut it's actually just a giant tub of their regular hummus

52:06SPEAKERwith all of these goodies, the pine nuts and the garlic

52:09SPEAKERand stuff.

52:10SPEAKER- Yeah, we get the roasted red pepper one all the time.

52:12SPEAKER- Right on the top?

52:13SPEAKER- Yeah.

52:14SPEAKER- Have you ever seen someone open one of those things

52:16SPEAKERand then basically proceed to dip out all of the good stuff

52:19SPEAKERon like three crackers?

52:21SPEAKER- That person should be fired into the sun.

52:23SPEAKER- Right away.

52:24SPEAKER- It says that's, you know who else I think would do that

52:26SPEAKERis Tucker Carlson.

52:27SPEAKER- Yeah, that sounds about right.

52:29SPEAKER- Yeah.

52:29SPEAKER- I witnessed a family member who will go nameless.

52:32SPEAKER- That is a war crime.

52:34SPEAKER- And take like most of the good stuff in the giant tub

52:36SPEAKERof hummus in the space of like two minutes.

52:39SPEAKER- Holy shit, that person would be out of the family.

52:42SPEAKER- Oh man, I mean, like I thought you were gonna say

52:45SPEAKERthat they like stirred it up into the whole thing

52:47SPEAKERso it was evenly distributed 'cause like you want

52:49SPEAKERa little bit of a, that's what I do, I mean.

52:51SPEAKER- I like a little unevenness to my distribution of chunks.

52:54SPEAKER- I get it, to me it seems like the only egalitarian way

52:57SPEAKERto do it though is to make it totally diffuse

52:59SPEAKERthrough the hummus so everybody gets some.

53:02SPEAKER- I mean, I feel like the person who comes last to the hummus

53:03SPEAKERis always gonna get screwed, but that's fair

53:06SPEAKER'cause they were late.

53:07SPEAKER- Yes, but the person that just takes all the goodies.

53:10SPEAKER- That is--

53:11SPEAKER- I bet that's a damn good cracker though.

53:14SPEAKERI hope you're happy.

53:15SPEAKER- But that's like the equivalent of just eating the skin,

53:18SPEAKERlike going to KFC and getting a bucket of skin.

53:22SPEAKEROh, I'm so upset, Brad.

53:25SPEAKER- Yeah, I hear it.

53:26SPEAKER- I'm angry for you.

53:29SPEAKERIf you named and chained to this person,

53:30SPEAKERI would not blame you, just to be clear.

53:33SPEAKER- I shouldn't.

53:34SPEAKER- Okay.

53:35SPEAKER- They know who they are.

53:39SPEAKERLet's see, JackW2610 asks, "As we move into the soup season,

53:42SPEAKER"I have an important super related question.

53:44SPEAKER"Is there any fundamental difference

53:45SPEAKER"between soup and baby food?"

53:47SPEAKER- This person is like, look, also,

53:51SPEAKERI don't wanna, we value all listeners, blah, blah, blah.

53:55SPEAKERLook, soup is delicious.

53:56SPEAKERAnd just because you've never had good soup

53:58SPEAKERand good soup has never touched your life or your heart,

54:01SPEAKERdoesn't mean that all soup is baby food.

54:06SPEAKER- Also, what's wrong with baby food?

54:07SPEAKER- Propaganda.

54:08SPEAKER- I've never eaten baby food,

54:10SPEAKERbut I could see baby food, only as a child.

54:13SPEAKERI mean, as an adult.

54:15SPEAKER- You don't keep a pack of prunes around just in case?

54:17SPEAKER- No.

54:19SPEAKER- We get things going again?

54:20SPEAKER- But now that I sit here and think about like,

54:22SPEAKERman, if you just had a puree of something in a cup

54:24SPEAKERand you could just eat it, 30 seconds.

54:25SPEAKER- Look, I'm gonna blow your mind.

54:26SPEAKERYou know how when we were babies,

54:27SPEAKERthey used to feed us baby food in little jars?

54:30SPEAKERNow the baby food comes in like those packs

54:33SPEAKERwith a suck your sucker thing on the end.

54:36SPEAKERSo like you can get applesauce, you can get prunes,

54:38SPEAKERyou can get all that stuff, just sweet potatoes and goo.

54:42SPEAKER- Okay, billion dollar business idea here, adult baby food.

54:47SPEAKER- Let me introduce you to a thing called Soylent, Brad.

54:49SPEAKERI think they're still around, I don't know.

54:51SPEAKER- Oh boy, all right.

54:52SPEAKER- Yeah, baby food is delicious.

54:56SPEAKERMaking your own baby food is really easy.

54:59SPEAKER- Sure.

55:00SPEAKER- The certain values are really easy.

55:01SPEAKERAlso delicious and soups are very good.

55:04SPEAKERI have a gnocchi beef soup that we make all winter long

55:09SPEAKERthat is delish and has chunks and would choke

55:11SPEAKERan average baby 'cause the gnocchi are a choking hazard.

55:15SPEAKERSo suck it, babies.

55:17SPEAKER- Choking gnocchi.

55:18SPEAKER- Choking, oh boy, I know what the title is this week.

55:21SPEAKER- Yes, I don't need a lot of canned soup anymore

55:24SPEAKER'cause it's kind of a giant sodium bomb.

55:26SPEAKER- Yeah.

55:27SPEAKER- But when we were keeping canned soup around a lot,

55:29SPEAKERif you let it sit long enough and then open it,

55:32SPEAKERit will have the consistency of baby food.

55:34SPEAKER- Yeah.

55:35SPEAKER- I found, just get it coming out in the can shape.

55:39SPEAKER- What's your favorite canned soup flavor?

55:41SPEAKER- Oh, we were getting a lot of Progresso

55:42SPEAKERjust 'cause it went on sale a lot.

55:44SPEAKER- Yeah.

55:46SPEAKER- Gosh.

55:48SPEAKER- You got like a chowder, you want like a beef and barley,

55:50SPEAKERyou want your tomato.

55:52SPEAKER- Clam chowder.

55:53SPEAKER- New England or Manhattan?

55:55SPEAKER- New England, absolutely.

55:56SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.

55:57SPEAKER- There is no such thing as Manhattan clam chowder.

55:59SPEAKER- This is just tomato soup with bad chunks.

56:01SPEAKER- That's right.

56:04SPEAKERSplitting ham.

56:05SPEAKER- Yeah, okay.

56:06SPEAKERThat's, I've never had a split pea soup, I don't think.

56:09SPEAKER- I'll take any variety of chicken noodle

56:11SPEAKERor like a beef stew kind of thing or whatever.

56:14SPEAKERHonestly, I'll eat just about any soup.

56:18SPEAKER- Delicious.

56:19SPEAKER- That goes for those categories of food, actually.

56:21SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.

56:25SPEAKER- I ate jellyfish once.

56:27SPEAKER- I ate jellyfish.

56:28SPEAKER- Salad?

56:29SPEAKER- Jellyfish salad?

56:30SPEAKER- Yeah, mine was served like a salad.

56:32SPEAKER- I think it was just a big heap of jellyfish.

56:35SPEAKER- This was served like a wakame salad with like a vinegary,

56:39SPEAKERit wasn't, I'm glad I tried it, I'm not going back again.

56:42SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, kind of with you there.

56:46SPEAKER- Yeah.

56:47SPEAKER- Let's see here, you flagged this email from Pac-Man 326.

56:51SPEAKERI'll try to come up with an answer.

56:52SPEAKERI learn new things all the time as I have gotten older.

56:57SPEAKERFor example, I did not realize up until a few months ago

56:59SPEAKERthat the periodic table has been completed for some time.

57:03SPEAKERWell, something you learned recently

57:04SPEAKERthat you were surprised you did not know about sooner.

57:06SPEAKER- I just wanted to talk about this periodic table

57:08SPEAKERbeing completed for some time thing.

57:09SPEAKER'Cause I didn't actually think that,

57:12SPEAKERI think that there's still like,

57:14SPEAKERA, how much do you know about the periodic table?

57:17SPEAKERIt's a cool thing, right?

57:18SPEAKER- It is a very neat and methodical thing.

57:19SPEAKERLike, you know, it's arranged in from,

57:22SPEAKERit's arranged in ascending numbers of electron.

57:25SPEAKER- Yeah, but also each row indicates the number of electron,

57:28SPEAKERthe electron, it represents a shell,

57:30SPEAKERwhich can hold X number of electrons

57:32SPEAKERand each element is there.

57:33SPEAKERSo like, if there were gaps in the periodic table before,

57:37SPEAKERthey predicted the absence of an element

57:40SPEAKERthat we then discovered or synthesized in some cases.

57:43SPEAKER- And aren't the columns also representative

57:45SPEAKERof certain categories?

57:46SPEAKERLike the noble gases are a column, I think.

57:48SPEAKER- So it, the, let's see, it predicts

57:54SPEAKERcharacteristics of the elements both horizontally,

57:56SPEAKERvertically, and diagonally.

57:58SPEAKER- Oh, wow, I didn't know about diagonal.

58:01SPEAKER- So the interesting thing about this is,

58:05SPEAKERfor the current rows, it's full.

58:08SPEAKERAnd we've synthesized everything,

58:11SPEAKEReven in like the big heavy stuff down at the bottom,

58:13SPEAKERI think maybe a couple of things that,

58:15SPEAKERlike we haven't characterized fully yet.

58:16SPEAKER- Yeah, my understanding is like the last elements

58:19SPEAKERon the table kind of like have only ever existed

58:21SPEAKERfor like fractions of a second in the lab.

58:23SPEAKER- Nanoseconds in some cases, yeah,

58:24SPEAKERthey break down immediately into smaller molecules,

58:27SPEAKERsmaller atoms.

58:28SPEAKERBut my understanding is that there's conceptually more rows

58:31SPEAKERthat we can tack on at the bottom.

58:32SPEAKERWe just have to like,

58:34SPEAKERwe don't have the high enough energy things

58:36SPEAKERto create those or measure their existence.

58:39SPEAKERSo anyway, that's what I got.

58:43SPEAKER- Your art table's cool.

58:45SPEAKER- Your art table's cool.

58:46SPEAKER- I will say, I mean,

58:46SPEAKERmaybe this is an add on for this question.

58:49SPEAKERLike I understood most of what we were talking about

58:50SPEAKERjust now conceptually, especially like the, you know,

58:52SPEAKERascending numbers of electrons and stuff like that.

58:55SPEAKERThe place where it went into practice for me

58:57SPEAKERin a way that blew my fucking mind was the first time

58:59SPEAKERI read how stellar nucleosynthesis works,

59:01SPEAKERwhich is how hydrogen is fused

59:04SPEAKERinto heavier elements inside stars.

59:06SPEAKERAnd quite literally you just go up the periodic table.

59:08SPEAKERThat's all it is.

59:09SPEAKERLike two hydrogen atoms fuse into helium

59:12SPEAKER'cause that's the next one up.

59:13SPEAKERAnd then two helium atoms fuse into carbon third.

59:18SPEAKER- No, two heliums would be whatever four is.

59:20SPEAKER- I can't remember, but anyway,

59:23SPEAKERlike you just walked like lithium or something.

59:25SPEAKERYeah, I'd have to look.

59:26SPEAKERI mean, I thought, I don't know the actual table that well,

59:28SPEAKERbut like basically just realizing that this table

59:31SPEAKERwe have constructed is a roadmap

59:33SPEAKERfor how that works physically.

59:36SPEAKER- Well, but it's also interesting

59:37SPEAKER'cause like the design of the table indicates the,

59:42SPEAKERlike represents both the internal construction

59:44SPEAKERand that through some, like that also shows

59:49SPEAKERbecause the electron shell configurations

59:53SPEAKERfor the outer shells predict behaviors,

59:55SPEAKERit means that it also predicts the behaviors.

59:57SPEAKERLike all the things in the far right column

1:00:00SPEAKERare noble gases and all the ones left of that

1:00:02SPEAKERare super, super reactive and really caustic and gnarly

1:00:05SPEAKERbecause they desperately need more electrons.

1:00:07SPEAKERAnd yeah, it's fun.

1:00:09SPEAKER- The last thing I'll say,

1:00:10SPEAKERthe cool thing about that as you go up the table

1:00:12SPEAKERinside stars, the only reason stars don't collapse

1:00:15SPEAKERin on themselves under the force of their own gravity,

1:00:17SPEAKERwhich eventually happens, which is how they all die, right?

1:00:20SPEAKERIs because the inward crush of gravity is held at bay,

1:00:25SPEAKERlike literally reaches equilibrium

1:00:26SPEAKERwith the outward release of energy from the fusion

1:00:30SPEAKERuntil you get to iron on the table.

1:00:33SPEAKERAnd then iron takes more energy to fuse than it releases.

1:00:37SPEAKERAnd that's when everything goes to shit.

1:00:39SPEAKER- So there's a Charlie Strauss book that he wrote

1:00:42SPEAKERin like the early 2000s called Iron Sunrise.

1:00:45SPEAKERThat's about a space-faring species that figures out

1:00:47SPEAKERhow to just put a giant wad of iron

1:00:49SPEAKERin the middle of mainline stars that aren't ready to explode

1:00:52SPEAKERand just wipes out civilizations it doesn't like.

1:00:54SPEAKER- Okay.

1:00:55SPEAKER- It's pretty good.

1:00:56SPEAKER- Interesting.

1:00:57SPEAKER- But also like the side effect of all that

1:01:00SPEAKERis that everything that's bigger than hydrogen

1:01:02SPEAKERin the universe presumably came from exploding stars.

1:01:04SPEAKER- Yes.

1:01:05SPEAKER- This is a Carl Sagan thing

1:01:06SPEAKERthat he blew people's minds with in the 70s.

1:01:08SPEAKERBut yeah.

1:01:09SPEAKER- And then a lot of the much heavier elements,

1:01:11SPEAKERI think there are much more exotic processes that happened

1:01:13SPEAKERand like supernovas and stuff like that.

1:01:15SPEAKER- Yeah, it's all sorts of crazy stuff.

1:01:17SPEAKER- Anyway.

1:01:18SPEAKER- Science is cool, man.

1:01:19SPEAKER- Yes, maybe that's my answer to this question,

1:01:21SPEAKERlearning about basic elements of the universe.

1:01:25SPEAKER- Honestly, the one that blew my mind,

1:01:27SPEAKERI think about it a lot, is that the 60 hertz,

1:01:31SPEAKERlike the fact that every TV in North America

1:01:33SPEAKERis tuned for 60 hertz and thus the world

1:01:36SPEAKERis because of the speed at which the generator spun

1:01:39SPEAKERon some thing in New England in the 1800s

1:01:44SPEAKERis the one that blows my mind.

1:01:45SPEAKER- Yeah, there's a lot of interesting stuff out there.

1:01:48SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:01:50SPEAKER- Let's see here, another Costco Christmas batter,

1:01:54SPEAKERthat's cake batter, question?

1:01:56SPEAKER- Oh, I assumed.

1:01:57SPEAKER- Have you bought a Raspberry Pi 5 yet?

1:01:59SPEAKER- No.

1:02:00SPEAKER- I have not either.

1:02:01SPEAKER- They were selling them at Maker Faire,

1:02:02SPEAKERI should have grabbed one.

1:02:03SPEAKER- Wait, like had them there?

1:02:05SPEAKER- I think you could like give them money

1:02:07SPEAKERand then they would send you one when they were available.

1:02:09SPEAKER- So I think they just actually started shipping

1:02:11SPEAKERin the last like 48 hours to pre-orders.

1:02:13SPEAKER- Okay.

1:02:16SPEAKER- I don't think I'm gonna rush out and get one.

1:02:18SPEAKERIt's definitely better, but...

1:02:20SPEAKER- I kind of like, I have a bunch of,

1:02:22SPEAKERI have a four extra now and I have a bunch of threes

1:02:27SPEAKERthat aren't being used, so.

1:02:28SPEAKER- Yeah, I ended up with an eight gigabyte four

1:02:30SPEAKERduring the pandemic,

1:02:31SPEAKER'cause it was the only one I could find in stock

1:02:33SPEAKERand that runs everything I need to run on it comfortably.

1:02:37SPEAKERYou know, the new one, like it's way more compute,

1:02:39SPEAKERadd less power, I guess the USB three bus is faster.

1:02:44SPEAKERIt's got PCI express now, which is cool.

1:02:48SPEAKER- Is there like a header for it?

1:02:49SPEAKER- Yeah, you still need a hat to like use an NVMe drive

1:02:51SPEAKERor something like that.

1:02:52SPEAKERAlso it's only PCI express 2.0.

1:02:55SPEAKER- But being able to use an NVMe drive

1:02:57SPEAKERinstead of like USB storage or SD card is a big improvement.

1:02:59SPEAKER- Yes, yes.

1:03:00SPEAKERThere have been add-ons for the four

1:03:01SPEAKERthat let you use a SATA M.2 drive as a boot drive,

1:03:04SPEAKERbut yeah, you can use...

1:03:05SPEAKER- SATA M.2 is hard to find though too, these days.

1:03:08SPEAKERAnd everything is NVMe now.

1:03:09SPEAKERSo it is better, but I don't have a serious use case.

1:03:14SPEAKERIt's also got way better graphics

1:03:15SPEAKERand actually kind of this follows on from last week

1:03:19SPEAKERtalking about like Steam Link apps and stuff like that.

1:03:21SPEAKERFeels like a Pi might be a good basis

1:03:23SPEAKERfor some kind of set top box,

1:03:25SPEAKERlike streaming games to a thing.

1:03:27SPEAKER- I can see that.

1:03:28SPEAKER- Kind of thing for as cheap as they are.

1:03:30SPEAKER- That makes sense.

1:03:31SPEAKER- Yeah, the Pi 5.

1:03:32SPEAKER- The Pi 5 is like 80 bucks or something?

1:03:33SPEAKER- Same price.

1:03:35SPEAKERThey may only be selling...

1:03:37SPEAKER- They're only selling one SKU so far or something?

1:03:40SPEAKER- I think they only have four and eight right now

1:03:42SPEAKERfrom what I saw.

1:03:43SPEAKERI could be wrong about that.

1:03:44SPEAKER- That's RAM configurations, I assume, right?

1:03:46SPEAKER- Yes, I don't know if they're still doing two gigabytes

1:03:49SPEAKERor not.

1:03:52SPEAKERYes, it is only four and eight right now.

1:03:54SPEAKERAnd I think it's 60 and 80, I believe for those two.

1:03:58SPEAKER- Okay.

1:03:59SPEAKER- So the price is going up a bit.

1:04:02SPEAKER- While we're talking about Pis,

1:04:04SPEAKERNCAL 14 asked which CM4 is recommended

1:04:09SPEAKERfor Home Assistant yellow?

1:04:11SPEAKERShould I go with a four gig or eight gig model?

1:04:14SPEAKERI'm running a four gig with WireGuard

1:04:16SPEAKERand a bunch of other stuff on it, and it's fine.

1:04:18SPEAKERAt some point, I'll probably swap it to a 16 gig

1:04:20SPEAKERor an eight gig, just when they're more readily available.

1:04:23SPEAKERBut it's a relatively easy update.

1:04:27SPEAKER- Yeah, I think Home Assistant.

1:04:28SPEAKERI mean, my install, my Home Assistant config

1:04:30SPEAKERis not that complex,

1:04:31SPEAKERbut it should do just fine with four gig.

1:04:34SPEAKER- If you install a lot of plugins or add ons to the store,

1:04:37SPEAKERyou can get in trouble because they're all Docker containers.

1:04:39SPEAKER- Yeah, I can see that.

1:04:42SPEAKERLet's see.

1:04:44SPEAKERSpooky actual.

1:04:47SPEAKERI was going to do a PC upgrade as the 2020 lockdown started

1:04:50SPEAKERand those plans got derailed.

1:04:52SPEAKERNow I still, I'm sorry,

1:04:54SPEAKERnow I am still on a 2014 era Core i5.

1:04:58SPEAKERAnd I'm starting to figure out what my next PC is going to be

1:05:01SPEAKERand the recent episode about Intel's new stuff

1:05:03SPEAKERhas me wondering if I should wait a bit longer.

1:05:05SPEAKERDo I get the latest stuff?

1:05:06SPEAKERDo I get the best of the last generation?

1:05:08SPEAKERIs waiting for the second generation

1:05:10SPEAKERof the new architecture the right move?

1:05:11SPEAKERI'm going to say based on my recent experience,

1:05:13SPEAKERabsolutely unequivocally yes.

1:05:15SPEAKERDon't literally adopt.

1:05:18SPEAKER- I think the moving,

1:05:20SPEAKERAMD's move to Chiplets was really challenging

1:05:24SPEAKERfor people who adopted early.

1:05:26SPEAKER- Yes, it sounds like the first.

1:05:27SPEAKER- I think 14th gen Intel is a good place to be.

1:05:30SPEAKERI'm happy I'm on 13th gen.

1:05:32SPEAKERI would not want to buy the first brand new chips

1:05:35SPEAKERfor my primary machine.

1:05:37SPEAKER- Yeah, ironically, the CPU end of the AMD platform I'm on

1:05:42SPEAKERseems to have basically been fine.

1:05:43SPEAKERIt seems it just, I can't prove this,

1:05:47SPEAKERbut it feels like much more chips had issues around IO

1:05:50SPEAKERand working and stuff like that.

1:05:51SPEAKERLike the actual, like all the heterogeneous core stuff

1:05:55SPEAKERseems to work fine, basically.

1:05:57SPEAKERIt's really other parts of the system

1:05:59SPEAKERthat are causing issues

1:06:00SPEAKERand that's just a chipset platform, BIOS driver thing.

1:06:04SPEAKER- I also, it's worth saying,

1:06:06SPEAKERI think that the, like if you're looking at a laptop

1:06:11SPEAKERand you're buying the chipset stuff, the Chiplets stuff,

1:06:15SPEAKERit'll be fine.

1:06:15SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:06:16SPEAKER- I think if you're looking at doing

1:06:17SPEAKERa high end performance PC, better to,

1:06:20SPEAKERlike you're going to have a machine that uses more power.

1:06:23SPEAKERIf you buy something today, then you will probably,

1:06:25SPEAKERwhen the tile chips come out next year,

1:06:27SPEAKERthe year after, but also there's no,

1:06:29SPEAKERlike there's no timeline on the tile chipsets

1:06:31SPEAKERfor desktops right now.

1:06:32SPEAKERIt's not like that's going to be next year's CPU's.

1:06:35SPEAKER- The last I saw, it looks like Aero Lake

1:06:37SPEAKERprobably will be the late next year until,

1:06:40SPEAKERso Meteor Lake is not getting a desktop part,

1:06:42SPEAKERbut it sounds like Aero will be back.

1:06:44SPEAKER- Yeah, but I mean, they just rolled out

1:06:46SPEAKERthe 14th gen desktop parts the last two weeks ago, right?

1:06:49SPEAKER- Yeah, so it should, last roadmap I saw

1:06:51SPEAKERlooks like a year from now

1:06:52SPEAKERis going to be the first desktop tile part,

1:06:54SPEAKERbut I wouldn't buy that.

1:06:55SPEAKERYou couldn't pay me to get that either.

1:06:57SPEAKER- Yeah, that's the one you should not buy.

1:06:59SPEAKER- For sure against Intel, but that's their first move

1:07:02SPEAKERto this disaggregated architecture, I believe,

1:07:05SPEAKERis the industry term now.

1:07:06SPEAKER- That's the technical term, yeah.

1:07:08SPEAKERBut like also, like look at the,

1:07:10SPEAKERyou have a nine-year-old computer at this point, right?

1:07:12SPEAKERLike a 2014 Core i5 is a pretty slow computer at this point.

1:07:17SPEAKERYou're going to start, like you're into the time now

1:07:19SPEAKERwhen your CPU and memory and stuff are going to start dying

1:07:21SPEAKERand replacing 2014 era memory is going to be really expensive

1:07:26SPEAKERcompared to buying current memory that's fast

1:07:28SPEAKERand will carry you forward, so.

1:07:30SPEAKER- The good news is there's a huge range of modest

1:07:33SPEAKERor like reasonably priced, more mature options out there.

1:07:37SPEAKERLike you don't have to buy, you know,

1:07:39SPEAKERlike the new i7 is pretty reasonably priced

1:07:42SPEAKERand like kind of punches above its weight

1:07:44SPEAKERfrom the sound of things.

1:07:45SPEAKEREven the last gen AMD stuff is pretty much

1:07:47SPEAKERin a good spot now.

1:07:48SPEAKERLike you can get, you could build like a 5800 X3D machine

1:07:51SPEAKERfor not very, for very little money

1:07:54SPEAKERthat will like completely destroy what you have right now.

1:07:57SPEAKER- I was going to say, that's the, that's the big,

1:07:58SPEAKERthat's the other thing is like,

1:08:00SPEAKERif you don't want a giant hot 13900K or 1400K,

1:08:04SPEAKERyou can just buy the cheap machine,

1:08:06SPEAKERlike buy the cheaper CPU.

1:08:08SPEAKERAnd it's the same architecture of more than enough cores

1:08:11SPEAKERthat just doesn't generate a space heater's worth of heat

1:08:15SPEAKERwhen it's running full bore.

1:08:16SPEAKER- I think, I think the troublesome new gen stuff

1:08:18SPEAKERis memory, chips, CPU sockets, brand new chip sets.

1:08:23SPEAKER- Intel is typically pretty good

1:08:25SPEAKERwith new CPU sockets and chip sets.

1:08:27SPEAKERAMD is typically bad with chip sets.

1:08:29SPEAKER- 'Cause Intel used to put one out like every year or two.

1:08:32SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:08:33SPEAKER- They had to get good at new sockets.

1:08:35SPEAKER- Like the fact that 12 series, 13 series and 14 series

1:08:38SPEAKERall works in the same chip set in the same socket

1:08:40SPEAKERis super unusual for Intel.

1:08:43SPEAKER- That is an aberration for their normal way

1:08:44SPEAKERof doing things.

1:08:45SPEAKERAlthough who knows, maybe, maybe AMD is going to force them

1:08:48SPEAKERto be more competitive on that front.

1:08:48SPEAKER- They haven't for the last 20 years.

1:08:50SPEAKER- Fair, fair.

1:08:51SPEAKERBut yeah, it's really like moving to new chip set,

1:08:55SPEAKERnew memory standard, stuff like that,

1:08:57SPEAKERthat I am going to avoid from now on.

1:08:59SPEAKER- Yeah, just, just like my rule on new memory

1:09:02SPEAKERis that it'll be fine.

1:09:03SPEAKERJust plan to replace the memory sooner than you would

1:09:05SPEAKERotherwise, this new CPU, new CPU.

1:09:07SPEAKERAnd for like when Intel moved to Nehalem,

1:09:11SPEAKERthose actually Nehalem was pretty good

1:09:14SPEAKERfor a brand new architecture,

1:09:16SPEAKERbut they also had done the thing before with that,

1:09:18SPEAKERwhere they moved from, did mobile first and servers,

1:09:22SPEAKERI think first too, I can't remember.

1:09:23SPEAKER- Yeah, I think there's honestly even some utility

1:09:26SPEAKERin waiting till the end of the thing,

1:09:28SPEAKERkind of close to the end of the generation

1:09:30SPEAKERof the thing you do want to buy,

1:09:31SPEAKERbecause like you see so many revised motherboard models

1:09:34SPEAKERout there these days, you know, like, like motherboard makers

1:09:37SPEAKERyou go to their sites and they'll have like the specs up

1:09:39SPEAKERfor like, here's revision 1.0 of this motherboard,

1:09:42SPEAKER1.1, sometimes a 2.0.

1:09:44SPEAKERSo even waiting for, even waiting for the kinks

1:09:47SPEAKERto get worked out on the existing boards

1:09:48SPEAKERis not the worst idea.

1:09:50SPEAKER- But Spooky Actual is on a 10 year old computer

1:09:53SPEAKERat this point, so yeah, anyway.

1:09:54SPEAKER- Yeah, again, I mean, I would say,

1:09:56SPEAKERI would say like Zen 3, the last gen AMD

1:09:59SPEAKERor the 14th, like mid range 14th gen

1:10:02SPEAKERor both should be pretty solid.

1:10:04SPEAKER- Yeah, if like, if this conversation was about a,

1:10:07SPEAKERlike a, like a 2018 era, 20, 2080 or something situation,

1:10:13SPEAKERit would be a different,

1:10:14SPEAKERit would be a different conversation.

1:10:15SPEAKER- Yes, yes.

1:10:16SPEAKER- 990, 990, 9700, 9800, whatever.

1:10:19SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:10:20SPEAKER- But, but a 10 year old PC, it's you're,

1:10:23SPEAKERyou're in the danger zone there.

1:10:25SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, there,

1:10:26SPEAKERthere are plenty of people out there having no problems

1:10:28SPEAKERwith current gen, the new AMD stuff, to be clear.

1:10:30SPEAKERLike there's plenty of people running 7800 X3Ds

1:10:33SPEAKERthat are having them work just fine.

1:10:36SPEAKERI'm just not one of them.

1:10:38SPEAKER- I just highlighted a post, but I didn't mean to read that.

1:10:40SPEAKERI was just highly highlighting for the record.

1:10:42SPEAKER- No, I, I, I know your Google Docs language at this point.

1:10:45SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:10:47SPEAKER- All right, should we do like one more here?

1:10:49SPEAKER- Yeah, one more sounds good.

1:10:50SPEAKERWe can, we have,

1:10:51SPEAKERwe have overage that's mostly from the,

1:10:53SPEAKERthat's almost all from the Discord.

1:10:54SPEAKERSo we might, maybe we'll do extras for the tech pod.

1:10:57SPEAKER- Yes.

1:10:58SPEAKER- For Discord.

1:10:59SPEAKER- Yes.

1:11:00SPEAKER- It's a patron exclusive episode this month.

1:11:01SPEAKER- Double taco, it's a good username.

1:11:05SPEAKER- Two, not one, but two tacos.

1:11:07SPEAKER- One for each fist.

1:11:10SPEAKER- When do you, when do you go to Taco Bell?

1:11:11SPEAKERHow many tacos you get, Brad?

1:11:14SPEAKER- It's been so long since I've been to Taco Bell.

1:11:15SPEAKERI could not tell you what my,

1:11:17SPEAKER- Oh yeah, I'm so sorry.

1:11:18SPEAKER- In high school, it was two double decker tacos.

1:11:21SPEAKER- Oh man, double decker taco.

1:11:24SPEAKERThey don't make those anymore.

1:11:24SPEAKER- Do they not make those anymore?

1:11:25SPEAKER- No, it's single decker only these days.

1:11:27SPEAKER- Oh, what if you showed up with your own soft tortilla

1:11:30SPEAKERand refried beans and just made your own.

1:11:32SPEAKER- So now the double decker option

1:11:33SPEAKERis the cheesy gordita crunch.

1:11:35SPEAKER- Oh, okay.

1:11:35SPEAKER- Which is like the soft thing with some,

1:11:37SPEAKERthere's some goo between that and the hard shell

1:11:39SPEAKERand then there's normal taco.

1:11:41SPEAKER- I see.

1:11:42SPEAKER- Double Taco asks, in the age of never ending reboots

1:11:44SPEAKERand remakes, what's one thing in tech

1:11:46SPEAKERyou'd like a remake of?

1:11:47SPEAKERFor me, every time I open up my fractal node 804 case

1:11:50SPEAKERto tinker, I wish it had gotten a modern refresh

1:11:53SPEAKERfrom the old design of 2008.

1:11:55SPEAKER- Oh man.

1:11:56SPEAKERSo having not, like I'm usually an upgrade case guy

1:12:00SPEAKERevery 10 years, going from my old cooler master,

1:12:05SPEAKERsorry, my old Corsair silent mid towers

1:12:08SPEAKERto the fractal meshify compact,

1:12:12SPEAKERI was blown away by how much nicer modern cases are.

1:12:17SPEAKERI would love to have a redo

1:12:21SPEAKERof like my old Sony Treacheron 24 inch monitor

1:12:26SPEAKERthat I gave away 'cause it was too heavy to keep.

1:12:30SPEAKER- Sure.

1:12:31SPEAKER- The dumb ass also.

1:12:34SPEAKER- My CRTs are nice.

1:12:35SPEAKERI don't know if they're worth the trade offs.

1:12:37SPEAKER- I couldn't put it on my desk.

1:12:39SPEAKERI don't know how I would use it,

1:12:40SPEAKERbut I would love to have one.

1:12:42SPEAKER- Man, this is a tough question.

1:12:43SPEAKERI'm trying to like...

1:12:45SPEAKER- Because the nostalgia thing is a tough question, right?

1:12:48SPEAKER'Cause it's like you have nostalgia for it,

1:12:49SPEAKERbut it probably wasn't very good by modern standards.

1:12:51SPEAKER- That's exactly why I'm struggling with this question

1:12:53SPEAKERbecause like setting aside my sentimentality

1:12:55SPEAKERabout stuff I grew up with,

1:12:57SPEAKERlike everything now is objectively pretty much better

1:13:00SPEAKERthan it used to be.

1:13:01SPEAKERSo, huh.

1:13:05SPEAKER- I mean, the CRT is interesting.

1:13:06SPEAKERLike that's why I like the CRTs 'cause the CRT...

1:13:09SPEAKER- Yeah, that's something you can't get anymore.

1:13:11SPEAKER- And also I think it was actually like in a lot of ways,

1:13:14SPEAKERuse more power as heavier, more inconvenient, whatever.

1:13:16SPEAKERPicture quality, pretty remarkable.

1:13:18SPEAKER- Oh yeah, yeah, no, no.

1:13:19SPEAKERLike I think in fact, like you can go,

1:13:20SPEAKERthere's a bunch of YouTube,

1:13:21SPEAKERthere's a whole YouTube subculture

1:13:22SPEAKERof people doing modern gaming on CRTs these days

1:13:25SPEAKERbecause they do in some ways still look better

1:13:27SPEAKERthan anything out there.

1:13:28SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:13:30SPEAKER- And I'm just like trying to cycle through in my head,

1:13:32SPEAKERlike old graphics cards I've had

1:13:34SPEAKERor like anything that I'd want to bring back, but...

1:13:37SPEAKER- I'd love a mechanical version

1:13:39SPEAKERof the Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro

1:13:40SPEAKERor maybe the Ergo 4000.

1:13:42SPEAKER- Yes, like that's a good example.

1:13:44SPEAKER- Like mechanical switches on that, that would be cool.

1:13:46SPEAKER- Sure.

1:13:49SPEAKERI don't know.

1:13:51SPEAKER- A Microsoft Intel Mouse Explorer 3.0 shaped mouse

1:13:54SPEAKERwith like the innards of a modern G Pro X wireless

1:13:59SPEAKERor whatever in there.

1:14:01SPEAKER- Can I just say a next cube?

1:14:04SPEAKER- Oh man, what would you put in a modern next cube?

1:14:06SPEAKER- I don't know, I have no idea.

1:14:08SPEAKERYou should go look up a video

1:14:12SPEAKERof the innards of an X cube at some point.

1:14:14SPEAKERLike you've heard the stories about like the early day,

1:14:17SPEAKERlike Steve Jobs, legendary asshole, right?

1:14:19SPEAKERLike the, not just how hard he was on people

1:14:22SPEAKERon like the Macintosh team and stuff,

1:14:24SPEAKERbut like his demands that like the circuit board

1:14:26SPEAKERbe designed and laid out in very elegant ways.

1:14:29SPEAKERSo that level of fiddly detail, attention to detail,

1:14:34SPEAKERapparently reached its apex

1:14:36SPEAKERwith the design of the next computers,

1:14:37SPEAKERlike it kind of sunk the company.

1:14:39SPEAKER- 'Cause he's like, yeah, that was my issue.

1:14:42SPEAKER- So insistent on everything in those machines

1:14:45SPEAKERbeing as beautiful and elegant

1:14:46SPEAKERand made out of the most expensive materials possible

1:14:50SPEAKERthat it pretty much ruined their chances

1:14:53SPEAKERof succeeding in the market.

1:14:54SPEAKER- Ate their margin.

1:14:56SPEAKER- But also like the people who did buy them

1:14:58SPEAKERbasically swear that they were the best computers ever made.

1:15:02SPEAKER- Yeah, I have some friends who have them.

1:15:04SPEAKER- I bought a Power Mac G4,

1:15:09SPEAKERthe one with the fold down side.

1:15:11SPEAKERYou had like the hand,

1:15:12SPEAKERthey were the white and gray plastic ones

1:15:15SPEAKERwith the circle flip latch on the side

1:15:18SPEAKERthat folded out and the motherboard was on the door.

1:15:20SPEAKERSo when you opened it, it was really easy to work on.

1:15:24SPEAKERThe problem with them was like

1:15:25SPEAKERthey were chirally opposite PC hardware.

1:15:28SPEAKER'Cause my initial thought was,

1:15:30SPEAKERoh, I'm gonna just put a PC board in there

1:15:31SPEAKERand then I'll have a PC.

1:15:32SPEAKERBut I then would have had to rework the entire backplane

1:15:34SPEAKERof the computer because the, let's see,