131: Booth by GWAR

00:00SPEAKERWell, it finally happened. I spilled most of a glass of water across my keyboard, my

00:06SPEAKERnice keyboard a couple of days ago.

00:07SPEAKERWhat are we talking about? Like four fluid ounces or like 12 fluid ounces?

00:11SPEAKEROkay. Here's the, the offending glass in my hand. I'd say in fact, the amount of water

00:15SPEAKERin this glass as we speak is maybe a little less than this. It was maybe about half.

00:18SPEAKERSo I'm guessing like six, six, seven fluid ounces probably there.

00:22SPEAKERI would say at least there was a large puddle on the desk and the keyboard, I think is the

00:27SPEAKERonly electronic device that really got the brunt of it.

00:30SPEAKERYeah. Did it go inside the keyboard or did it just go around the keyboard?

00:34SPEAKERIt's a nice keyboard. It definitely went across the top of the keyboard. I can't say if it

00:37SPEAKERwent inside though, because it's one of the, it's one of the newer, like nice Apple magic.

00:42SPEAKERI think they call it magic keyboard now. It's the Bluetooth, the full-size Bluetooth aluminum.

00:47SPEAKERYou know how you let the magic out, right?

00:49SPEAKERHow is that?

00:50SPEAKERYou pour water on it.

00:51SPEAKEROh, that's no, I didn't want to.

00:52SPEAKERDoes it still work?

00:53SPEAKERAll the keys. So I immediately set about letting it dry for, let's say 30 minutes. I probably

01:00SPEAKERshould not have turned it back on as fast as I did, but that's a little less time than

01:03SPEAKERI would have gone with. Probably I have work to do.

01:05SPEAKERDo you not have a spare keyboard?

01:09SPEAKERI know. Yes I do. I should have gotten one out. I quick brown Fox jumped over the lazy

01:14SPEAKERdog to it and it worked fine. I've tested every key on here. They all work.

01:19SPEAKERIs it a membrane one or is it one of the butterfly key ones?

01:21SPEAKERSo, well, I don't know. I'm not sure how to tell the difference, but I, the thing I was

01:25SPEAKERgoing to say though, is like I said, all the keys work. It feels really mushy now. Oh,

01:32SPEAKERam I, is this confirmation bias that I think something is wrong with it? So I'm sensing

01:36SPEAKERsomething that's not there because like the action on the keys feels a lot mushier and

01:40SPEAKERless responsive than it did. Is that possible?

01:42SPEAKERI think you're paying attention. So, okay. If there was water between the membrane and

01:47SPEAKERthe keyboard, it just wouldn't work.

01:50SPEAKERYou would not feel mushiness. It would just not work.

01:53SPEAKERRight. Right. I'm not worried about that. I'm just wondering, wondering if something

01:56SPEAKERlike in the memory and got wet and expanded or something. Is that possible? It's probably

02:00SPEAKERrubber though, right?

02:01SPEAKERIt's just, yeah, nope, you're good. It's not going to happen. I don't think there's nothing

02:04SPEAKERin there. The way those switches work, it's just, it's just springy plastic. Usually really

02:09SPEAKERyeah. Cause the switch, the, the, the part of the thing that makes the key go up and

02:14SPEAKERdown has nothing to do with the mechanism other than there's a contact that it closes

02:18SPEAKERon the, on the board when it, when it's closed.

02:20SPEAKERRight. So the action comes entirely from the membrane, from the...

02:23SPEAKERYeah, you might be fine. Like that kind of keyboard, you can kind of pour water on and

02:26SPEAKERlike, as long as it doesn't short anything out or rust, you're fine.

02:29SPEAKERCan I just like type into our show notes document right now and tell you what I, what I feel?

02:33SPEAKERCause my fingers are saying something different than what you're telling.

02:36SPEAKERI mean, look, maybe it's time for you to finally get on that mechanical train.

02:40SPEAKERI probably should. It's really useful to have a keyboard that doesn't make any sound at

02:45SPEAKERall when you are talking into a microphone.

02:47SPEAKERI mean, okay. Then get one of those laser ones that prints the laser on your desk in

02:50SPEAKERfront of you and just learn to use that.

02:52SPEAKERNow we're talking. Now we're going full Star Trek. I, I, okay. First of all, I don't actually

02:56SPEAKERneed to replace this keyboard. It seems to still work.

02:59SPEAKERIt's going to still work right up until the moment that it doesn't. That's how this usually

03:02SPEAKERgoes.

03:03SPEAKERAs much as my fingers are telling me something is off. I'm typing lazy dog. It's this is

03:12SPEAKERwrong. Yeah. I've been thinking for a while about one of those Microsoft surface keyboards.

03:17SPEAKERHave you ever used one of those?

03:18SPEAKERThe pad ones? Well, what do you mean by pad? Well, they have multiple kinds. There's one.

03:23SPEAKERThat's a real keyboard with like little, little switches. And then there's one that's like

03:27SPEAKERa it's like capacitive with a little bumps that basically this has got actual keys. It

03:34SPEAKERlooks like one of these, it looks like it's patterned after one of these apples with the

03:36SPEAKERreally short, the chicklet keys and the really short throw, but it's got a, it's got a fingerprint

03:41SPEAKERsensor and it works with windows. Hello. Well, that's interesting. Which is kind of the reason

03:45SPEAKERI want one. My, um, my face tracker, my eye tracker uses, uh, works with hello. I would

03:51SPEAKERdescribe it as moderately useful moderately. Sometimes it works sometimes not so much.

03:58SPEAKERYou know what always works? My six digit passcode. Unless, unless you were some kind of degenerate

04:06SPEAKERcriminal who has burned off your fingerprints, your fingerprints. I mean, I guess that's

04:12SPEAKERtrue. I'm looking at the surface keyboard now. Price is a thousand dollars seems like

04:16SPEAKERa lot. Oh, that's, that's with the computer. That's okay. I don't need a new computer with

04:22SPEAKERit necessarily. I think 80 by 80 bucks at Best Buy. That's like not, I like having,

04:28SPEAKERI like being able to feel the keys move. I look, I get it. Mechanical keyboards feel

04:33SPEAKERgreat. They are just kind of noisy for an open mic. You can get a quiet mechanical keyboard.

04:38SPEAKERI have switches here. As soon as my key keyboard comes, I'm putting them in and I'm ready to

04:41SPEAKERgo. Are actually, now that you mentioned it, are there aftermarket, um, like user installable

04:46SPEAKERfingerprint sensors that work with Mac keyboards now? Like can you do that on your own? You

04:51SPEAKERcan buy a fingerprint sensor that you just tape on your desk. I know you can buy like

04:54SPEAKERan external USB one, but I, yeah, look, you know how I feel about integration is the appeal

04:59SPEAKERfor you. Yes. Yeah. I can't help you with that. Well, okay. Did I ever tell you about

05:05SPEAKERthe time that I became a hero to our new publisher at, uh, tested bread? Oh, we were sitting

05:11SPEAKERin the conference room at the tested office on Brandon street, the, uh, the old one upstairs.

05:16SPEAKERAnd she dumped a glass of water over her brand new company issued Mac book air or Mac book

05:20SPEAKERor whatever. Oh, and I was like, Oh God, turn it off fast. I can fix it. And she was like,

05:24SPEAKERwait, what? You can fix this. It's like, yes. So I went and got the Penelope's, turned it

05:29SPEAKERoff, flipped it over, opened it up, completely dismantled it, dried it, cleaned it with rubbing

05:36SPEAKERalcohol, put it all back together, fires right back up. Uh, and, and never, never was why

05:43SPEAKERno it was never the wiser right there in the conference room while we were having a meeting,

05:48SPEAKERjust field strip to the Mac book. We were having a meeting. She was like, how do you

05:51SPEAKERknow how to do this? I was like, this is what we do here at tested. She's like, Oh man,

05:54SPEAKERI get it. Okay. And the rest was history.

06:16SPEAKER[inaudible]

06:25SPEAKERwelcome to Brad and will made a tech bot. I'm will. I'm Brad. I mean, not, not gonna

06:30SPEAKERlie. I had a brief moment. There was like, which orders are the names? Is it Brad and

06:33SPEAKERwill or is it willing brand? I think it's alphabetical. Huh? You know what? I thought

06:36SPEAKERabout that on the show and title is the other way. No, it's Brad and will. Oh, I know, but

06:42SPEAKERI'm saying it's, it's the opposite of how we introduce ourselves. Oh, that's true. You're

06:46SPEAKERwill. I'm Brad. That's the opposite of, yeah, I'm will. We thought our branding through

06:51SPEAKERvery thoroughly as I there's a, there's a Gimlet podcast. I'm a Gimlet is the podcast

06:59SPEAKERnetwork that has had reply all and, and a startup and all those shows that was started

07:04SPEAKERby some X NPR folks who then went on to sell to somebody. I can't remember who Spotify

07:10SPEAKERor somebody, but when they were starting, they did this series about what it was like

07:16SPEAKERto start a company.

07:17SPEAKERAnd one of the things that they did was do an episode about branding firms. So they went

07:22SPEAKERto a bunch of branding firms and interviewed them until somebody was like, you know, if

07:25SPEAKERyou want to see what the process is like, we can just do it for your company. Yeah.

07:29SPEAKERSo they got millions of dollars worth of branding advice as part of a podcast, which is how

07:36SPEAKERthey came up with the Gimlet media name, which I think probably wasn't worth it in the end.

07:39SPEAKERThat's not bad. It's kind of snappy. It sounds fancy. Is that, is that essentially the podcasting

07:44SPEAKERversion of asking the firm to work for exposure? I mean, that's exactly what that is.

07:50SPEAKERIt's it was, it's it, a, it's an interesting episode. It completely changed the way I thought

07:55SPEAKERabout that was kind of branding firms. Cause like, I've never been in a position to actually

07:58SPEAKERwork with them. B I think it was, I think it was, I don't know, maybe, maybe it was

08:05SPEAKERa good name. They came up with a bunch of fake names, like, like not word names that

08:09SPEAKERsound like words, you know, like, like in a Trode and stuff like that, you know,

08:14SPEAKERI would love to get the brainstorming session on tape for just coming up with non words.

08:18SPEAKERIt was good. Like that part was super interesting. And they were like, this is where it implies

08:21SPEAKERthis and this and this. Cause people hear this and they think this word, but they really,

08:25SPEAKERbut you see, so you basically, the whole idea is that you draft off of another more valuable

08:31SPEAKERword. Sure. Okay. Anyway, something that implies without being speed or excellence or whatever

08:37SPEAKERthat makes people think that without knowing, but then they went with Gimlet because the

08:40SPEAKERguy who runs, who was starting the network was like, I like Gimlet. Well, yeah, that's

08:46SPEAKERkind of, that's kind of how I come up with passwords that I need to remember and be able

08:49SPEAKERto produce on command. Not, not like how many passwords do you have to produce? I don't

08:54SPEAKERmean serious passwords, like anything that is remotely important. I just generate like

08:58SPEAKERa strong password, but something that I have to like type in like, like console, like on

09:03SPEAKERthe console is occasionally you'll have to enter your password on a controller to do

09:07SPEAKERthings. So you kind of need to be able to remember that. They all, they all let you

09:12SPEAKERdo it from the phone now. Do they? I think so. I had to type in a PlayStation password

09:16SPEAKERthe other day and it was like, you can go to this website. I think maybe it was to use

09:19SPEAKERthe app. I can't remember. Yeah. Anyway, I come up with like phonetic nonsense in my

09:24SPEAKERhead to, to, yeah, I just, I, I go to one password and I choose the, uh, the use three

09:31SPEAKERwords option. That's probably the actual right answer at this point. Anyway, gentler evil

09:37SPEAKERmonopoly. Hmm. It's funny how, how many of those phrases, I mean, this is just more human

09:43SPEAKERpattern recognition, right? How many of those phrases seem to have a certain theme to them

09:47SPEAKERwhen they come out? Yeah. Do you, do you ever feel like some of the random password generator

09:51SPEAKERstuff is not actually like, I feel like the steam code generator, I have to use that kind

09:56SPEAKERof like, cause I switched steam accounts log that I'm logged in as on the regular now.

10:00SPEAKERUm, I feel like it, the same numbers come up a lot with that one's alphabetic only.

10:06SPEAKERIsn't it? I think that one was like only five numbers, but it's only five numbers. He used

10:10SPEAKERnumeric as well. Okay. Yeah. Steam uses numeric as well. Um, it just feels like they're, they're

10:16SPEAKERvery similar. There's, there's patterns in there. It's all just, it's all just security

10:20SPEAKERtheater, man. They just think you're safe, man. In the old office valve had a whole bunch

10:25SPEAKERof lava lamps with a webcam pointed at them to generate randomness. But now, now, man,

10:29SPEAKERthey're just, they're just using a random number generator on an old compact four 86.

10:34SPEAKERIt's not the same man who actually did that. That was a, that was an RSA thing. It was

10:39SPEAKERcloud flare, but did or still does the lava lamp wall. I think the lava lamp wall thing

10:44SPEAKERis still a thing, but I don't know for sure. It appears to be anyway. Yeah. So today we

10:50SPEAKERdecided to take a trip. Speaking of 46 is and lava lamp walls and, and the video games,

10:57SPEAKERwe decided to take a trip back in time to September 5th, 1995 season 13, episode eight

11:03SPEAKERof the computer Chronicles, the computer Chronicles, which might as well be a warm, fuzzy blanket

11:08SPEAKERin, in public television form with Stuart, a hero, hero of the nerds. Uh, I would say

11:15SPEAKERwas he, I never, I don't know. He didn't seem like that much of a nerd really. No, he didn't.

11:19SPEAKERNo, he's really got like more of kind of mid nineties business dad energy kind of to him.

11:24SPEAKERWell, he's, he seemed like a dude who's really into word processors in like 1985. Yes, I

11:29SPEAKERhad to guess. Absolutely. Um, yeah, we haven't done one of these in over a year now. I think

11:34SPEAKERthis is only the second one we've done. Just kind of recapping a classic computer Chronicles

11:38SPEAKERepisode. I feel like the show has been like kind of back in the zeitgeist or the public

11:41SPEAKERawareness a little bit lately. It's funny cause like every, about every three months,

11:45SPEAKERsomebody discovers the one time that I was on computer Chronicles in 2002 or 2001. Uh,

11:52SPEAKERand uh, then that, that puts me, that chucks me down the computer Chronicles hole, which

11:56SPEAKERis fun. I assume you would much rather hear from somebody about your computer Chronicles

11:59SPEAKERappearance than your Oscars appearance at this point. Oh thank God. Yeah. Any day, please.

12:04SPEAKERI, I'm, it's still bad Brad, just for the record. I know, I know. Like I'm tagged on

12:09SPEAKERenough of your tweets to get the runoff. I promise you. I see some of it. Um, so yeah,

12:15SPEAKERuh, like I've seen somebody who's been passing a script around recently that somebody wrote

12:19SPEAKERto scrape the entirety of the computer Chronicles from archive.org is one reason that I know

12:23SPEAKERpeople have been thinking about it. Um, there's also that Twitch channel that I can never

12:26SPEAKERremember the name of that. It's something along the lines of like retro computer show.

12:31SPEAKERDo you know what I'm talking about? Oh, I've not seen that. That sounds cool. Tiny computer

12:34SPEAKERshow. Oh, I'll have to follow that dude. Uh, you should pull up. Oh, hang on. I'm sorry.

12:40SPEAKERI just pulled it up and it's very loud. Uh, it's old tiny computer show on Twitch with

12:45SPEAKERan E. Yes. Tiny with an E. Okay. It's a bunch of stuff. It's not just computer Chronicles.

12:51SPEAKERIt's a 24 seven curated showcase of videotapes and films on computers and video games from

12:55SPEAKERthe 20th century is how they describe it. But Chronicles does come up quite a bit on

13:01SPEAKERthat channel. I feel like that that channel is a little more visible than it used to be.

13:05SPEAKERThe thing, the thing I will say about computer Chronicles is it gives you a lovely glimpse

13:11SPEAKERin time. Most of the episodes are on archive.org. Uh, we will post a link to this in the show

13:16SPEAKERnotes if you want to watch it before you listen to us or if you want to watch it, we're going

13:19SPEAKERto talk about it a little bit out of order from the way it was aired. So you might want

13:21SPEAKERto go take your 28 minutes and watch the show and then come back to the podcast.

13:27SPEAKERI will say Star Trek, the next generation and the computer Chronicles are my two. Like

13:32SPEAKERI don't do it very often, but every once in a while, like it's just a weekend morning.

13:35SPEAKERYes. I'm just like, I'm going to put on, I'm going to get a little Stuart. This

13:41SPEAKERmorning while I wake up and it's just pleasant. So the fun, it's funny. The ones that are

13:45SPEAKERinteresting to me, the ones from the eighties are okay. I think we did a one from the eighties

13:49SPEAKERlast time. The ones from the eighties are okay as a novelty, but I don't have a lot

13:52SPEAKERof context from that time. Yeah. Like the last one we did was like an 85 86. I want

13:57SPEAKERto say early. And that was very minding. That was years before I had access to computers

14:01SPEAKERregularly and that was like in the territory of like, look at this 40 megabyte hard drive.

14:06SPEAKERCan you believe this? And like, that is even for you, who's a little older than me, like

14:11SPEAKERthat's still pretty, pretty absent of any context that we experienced.

14:15SPEAKERYeah. We got like an IBM XT hand me down in probably 1990, maybe 89. It seems like so,

14:23SPEAKERbut I didn't like, I knew how to run stuff on it. I didn't know what anything about how

14:28SPEAKERto make it work, I guess at that point. So so this episode we're talking about is one

14:32SPEAKERof their gaming specials, which they did occasionally. And it has, as you said, some real dad energy.

14:37SPEAKERYeah. Real, real, real quick historical context here. I think you said it already September

14:43SPEAKER5th, 1995 is the air date I pulled for this. Yeah. This was about a month after windows

14:48SPEAKER95 came out. I was going to say when it was 95 came out on August 24th. So like, yes,

14:52SPEAKERless than a month, like three weeks, two weeks after windows 95 came out just to put this

14:58SPEAKERon perspective. So, but, but the, so the thing to remember is windows 95 came out in August.

15:03SPEAKERThey launched it in like may or April or something with a big event. Wait, you mean like the

15:08SPEAKERwhole rolling stones thing and everything? That was around the launch. That was to build

15:12SPEAKERup hype for the launch. In my memory, the whole, like that extravaganza, the whole gala

15:17SPEAKERlaunch with the song and everything was like all right there in August. No, I don't think

15:22SPEAKERso. Weren't they, weren't they like shipping preview builds of Chicago with magazines or

15:27SPEAKERdid I, am I conflating things? Maybe it was like a, there was some kind of like limited

15:30SPEAKERwindows 95 demo you could get with a magazine or something. I forget. I thought there was,

15:34SPEAKERI thought that was just video, but I don't remember. I don't know how you would've played

15:37SPEAKERvideo on a computer in 1995, honestly before windows 95. Well, let's ask the computer Chronicles.

15:44SPEAKERSo anyway, this episode is about games. There's a bunch of FMV stuff. There's a bunch of mech

15:52SPEAKERwarrior two. They're showing mech warrior two. They talk about some online gaming stuff.

15:57SPEAKERThey talk about the PlayStation and the Saturn for some reason. Weirdly out of nowhere at

16:00SPEAKERthe end of this episode or the show about computers here is the PlayStation, the Saturn.

16:04SPEAKERBut I think they wanted to ask Sony and Sega for consoles. You know, Stewart seemed pretty

16:09SPEAKERinto it. Yeah. The kids wanted to play that Panzer Dagoon man. Yeah. But do you want to,

16:15SPEAKERdo you want to start with the judgment day though? Because like that's probably the most

16:18SPEAKEReyeopening or like weirdly out of left field thing in this episode. Yeah. This is a, the

16:23SPEAKERleast computer Chronicles event that I think has ever been featured on the computer Chronicles

16:29SPEAKERand B also is a notorious event. It's when they kicked off direct X at my like, it's

16:34SPEAKERlike the developer kickoff for direct X at Microsoft. Yeah. And it became like, this

16:39SPEAKERis the event that spawned what became meltdown, which was the direct X developers conference

16:44SPEAKERfor years. So yeah, I don't, I'm not even familiar with meltdown. Like, is that also

16:48SPEAKERGoogling for Microsoft meltdown now just gets you a lot of meltdown inspector mitigations,

16:52SPEAKERwhich probably very different, but when did meltdown stop? Meltdown stopped in like 2007.

16:58SPEAKERIt was while I was still at maximum PC or 2008. It got rolled into build. Okay. So they,

17:03SPEAKERso basically in the old days there were three Microsoft conference. Well, there were two

17:07SPEAKERbig Microsoft conferences and then there was meltdown and the big Microsoft conferences

17:12SPEAKERwere a win heck, which was the hardware, like the hardware integrators conference. And there

17:19SPEAKERwas a software equivalent. I don't remember what it was called before it was called build.

17:24SPEAKERAnd then meltdown was like a bock and all for game developers where everybody came to

17:29SPEAKERSeattle and they all stayed in that Sheridan where across from packs and like people would

17:36SPEAKERput slip and slides in the hotel hallways and stuff like that. And it got every, I only

17:41SPEAKERwent a few times, but it was buck wild. Oh, wow. Oh yeah. Well yeah. They always asked

17:45SPEAKERus to come to talk about hardware stuff with and sit in the hardware sessions and stuff

17:49SPEAKERlike that.

17:50SPEAKERI mean, bock and all is exactly the vibe I get from this footage, which again, this,

17:54SPEAKERthis was a one-off at this point, right? This was not an annual thing yet, but this is 10

17:59SPEAKERtimes what any of those meltdowns were to be clear. Yeah. Also some of the stuff you've

18:04SPEAKERwritten in here that I'll let you expand on that was not depicted in the footage sounds

18:07SPEAKEReven weirder, but like the whole thing has just got this like Gothic, like kind of slightly

18:13SPEAKERcheesy, but slightly sinister like Halloween costume party motif.

18:17SPEAKERLook man, in 1995, there were two, there were only two types of music. There was alternative.

18:22SPEAKERWell, there were three types of music. There was alternative, there was like rap and then

18:27SPEAKERthere was metal.

18:28SPEAKERYeah. Gangster rap was, was just starting to, was, was getting pretty big at this point.

18:31SPEAKERGangster rap was big, but not at all in this, this audience did not care about the hip hops.

18:38SPEAKERThis was a metal crowd full of metal people with like, there was John Romero didn't have

18:42SPEAKERlong hair because he wanted a long luscious hair. It was cause he was a metal kid. Right?

18:46SPEAKERSo this was the kickoff of DirectX, which, which happened about three months after the

18:52SPEAKERlaunch of windows 95.

18:53SPEAKERYeah. I don't, I don't, I wonder if they even have the DirectX name at this point, because

18:57SPEAKERin the episode, they never say that they only refer to direct draw and direct play. And

19:01SPEAKERit sounds like those are the only two components that were actually like, ready to go at this

19:05SPEAKERpoint.

19:06SPEAKERYeah. I think direct sound came on shortly after that. If I remember it might've been

19:09SPEAKERthat that may have been in DirectX 2.

19:11SPEAKERWe talked about before we started recording, maybe doing a whole like kind of history of

19:15SPEAKERDirectX episode, which would be fun. I think like what are the directs? Like there's draw

19:20SPEAKERplay input sound.

19:21SPEAKERWell there's a bazillion now there's all shader languages, all sorts of other stuff. But,

19:26SPEAKERbut so the, according to this PC gamer retrospective that they wrote a few years ago, the DirectX

19:31SPEAKERname came out because they wrote, they introduced this stuff at GDC in the spring. And when

19:37SPEAKERone of the journalists who was briefed wrote about it, they mocked it as, Oh yeah, it's

19:44SPEAKERdirect this direct that they should just call it DirectX or something like that. And then

19:48SPEAKERthe team at Microsoft liked the name so much that they kept it.

19:51SPEAKERThat's amazing.

19:52SPEAKERThe, the, I don't want to get too much into the DirectX stuff because it is an infinite

19:55SPEAKERwell of, of weird nineties shit and awful behavior and sadness. Cause like just, it

20:02SPEAKERstarted as a three person team led by this guy named Alex St. John, who was a regular

20:06SPEAKERcolumnist for boot and then maximum PC magazine for quite a while. Who also turned out to

20:13SPEAKERbe a fairly notorious shit heel. He has, I would describe him as controversial to wildly

20:21SPEAKERoffensive views about women and minorities and all sorts of stuff to the point that his

20:25SPEAKERdaughter wrote an article on medium that then got picked up by wired that denounced him

20:29SPEAKERfor being shitty. So we're definitely not endorsing when your own family members, especially

20:38SPEAKERyour own children are coming out against you in public, you've really ascended to a very,

20:44SPEAKERvery exclusive plane of shittiness.

20:45SPEAKERYeah. It's like you're a Alice Arizona house member or Alex St. John, it seems like. So

20:50SPEAKERand then like, honestly, like saying that to be fair, I didn't see any footage of like

20:56SPEAKERbooth babes, like, like, you know, I'm sure there I'd look probably were, I didn't see

21:00SPEAKERany in this footage, but like the point is like hearing you say that about him and seeing

21:05SPEAKERwhat this event looked like, it kind of makes more sense how this turned out this way.

21:10SPEAKERYeah. They're like, they named it internally the Manhattan project because he wanted to

21:14SPEAKERdestroy Japanese console makers. Wow. Wow. Yeah. And, and like, and it wasn't,

21:20SPEAKERthat wasn't an accident just to be clear. He, he was like, yeah, no, I wanted, we want

21:24SPEAKERto blow up Japan. Oh man. Yeah. So let's just move on. Yeah. Not a nice person. This, this,

21:31SPEAKERthis event did generate a completely ridiculous marketing video of Bill Gates inside of doom.

21:37SPEAKEROh yeah. So like wearing a black leather trench coat, like it's all the length of footage

21:44SPEAKERin the show notes, like all the footage you can find out there of this is like solo res.

21:49SPEAKERYou can barely tell it's Bill Gates. Like you can't even really make out his face very

21:52SPEAKERwell, but you can just barely see enough detail to get that. So yes, he's in a trench coat

21:56SPEAKERand he has a prop shotgun. Yeah. Underneath all of that. It looks like he literally just

22:01SPEAKERstepped out of his office. Like they didn't even bother with wardrobe other than throwing

22:05SPEAKERthis coat on him. He's just wearing his plain old sweater vest and like dumb khakis buttoned

22:10SPEAKERdown in V-neck sweater and Dockers. Yeah. So bad. I look, I think like, okay. So the

22:17SPEAKERthing you have to remember about this is in 1995, windows was important, but it wasn't

22:22SPEAKERlike the only operating system you could run on a PC, right? The OS two warp was still

22:27SPEAKERa thing. Like it wasn't clear that Microsoft was going to become an unstoppable monopoly

22:33SPEAKERat this point. It was, we were on the cusp of that. We were on the top of the slope about

22:37SPEAKERto roll downhill. But, but like, as, as somebody said in one of the articles about this, they

22:44SPEAKERwere more computers running doom at this point than windows 95, when this event happened,

22:49SPEAKERright? Because it was windows 95 was new. People were skeptical about it. Didn't run

22:53SPEAKERon a lot of computers. Like there, there, there were issues. So him coming out in this

22:58SPEAKERwasn't ominous monopolist Bill Gates. It was hopeful monopolist Bill Gates. Right. So it's

23:04SPEAKERmaybe a distinction without a difference, but yes. Yeah. So, so he comes out, he does

23:08SPEAKERhis talk at the end. It closes with who do you want to execute today? Right. But in like,

23:15SPEAKERin like a kind of like really creepy looking font, like a bloody font. Yeah. Cause their

23:21SPEAKERtagline at the time was where do you want to go today? Right. Yeah. Bill Gates actually

23:25SPEAKERshoots an NPC in the game. Sarge or whatever type do me comes at him and he literally blows

23:32SPEAKERthem away with a shotgun. It's like, don't waste my time. Sarge. It's so cheesy. It's

23:37SPEAKERvery cheesy. And he does say, and there's like, Oh yeah. At this event, we're going

23:40SPEAKERto show you 75 games running on windows 95. Like it was kind of a lot, like the end of

23:44SPEAKERthe year, big push. Yeah. I don't know. It was, it was, it's weird to look back on this.

23:52SPEAKERCause I remember, I remember reading about this in boot and, and seeing coverage of this

23:56SPEAKERand in some of the game blogs that I was reading at the time before we knew that before we

24:01SPEAKERcalled them blogs, just to be clear, the, the, the, the idea that doom, that they got

24:08SPEAKERdoom running on windows was a novel, right? Cause doom didn't run on windows. Oh, do you

24:14SPEAKERmean, do you mean that Gabe Newell's wind doom? Look, say we got to save something for

24:19SPEAKERthe direct X episode. Okay. But yes, Gabe Newell's wind doom. He apparently you, I don't

24:24SPEAKERknow, where did you dig this up? This is also in the PC gamer article. He was the team lead

24:28SPEAKERinside Microsoft. They, Microsoft went to Carmack and it, and was like, Hey, we will

24:33SPEAKERport windows doom to windows. Just give us code and you keep all the rights. You can

24:38SPEAKERsell it for whatever you want. We don't care. We just want doom running on windows. We'll

24:40SPEAKERdo all the work. So Carmack handed them the code and was like, go nuts. And that's and

24:46SPEAKERthus a young Gabe Newell got his first taste of game programming. I guess. I don't know

24:51SPEAKERwhat he was doing before that, but the forbidden fruit of successful video game development.

24:56SPEAKERI don't understand why Bill Gates was wearing a black leather trench coat at that. Cause

25:00SPEAKERit was before the matrix. Like did they just need to give him a prop that made him look

25:04SPEAKERlike a video game character? Is that it? Or was it like, like, it was like snow crash.

25:11SPEAKERMaybe Bill Gates is a secret trench coat connoisseur. Who knows? I mean the black leather trench

25:16SPEAKERcoat had such a journey from like pre Columbine nineties to post Columbine two thousands plus

25:25SPEAKERthe matrix in there at some point anyway. Okay. Anyway, a couple other interesting factoids

25:30SPEAKERis that we pulled here. I don't know where you got this one from. Apparently it software

25:34SPEAKERhad a booth at judgment day that was designed by Guar. Yeah. They didn't, they didn't know.

25:39SPEAKERWell, Guar wasn't as big then as they, I mean, not that Guar is like changing the world with

25:43SPEAKERtheir music at this point, but don't you, don't you speak ill of Guar. Guar was very

25:48SPEAKERsmall then. And so they asked it to do a booth and nobody knew how to do a booth. So the

25:53SPEAKERthing, the oral history is that they were just like, Hey, let's to get these Guar guys,

25:57SPEAKERgive them some money and get them to design the booth. So they made a eight foot tall.

26:03SPEAKERThey made a tunnel that you had to walk through to get into the booth that the entrance was

26:06SPEAKERan eight foot tall vulva with dildo teeth and a whole bunch of horrible, like it's a

26:14SPEAKERreal fucking choice. As we say, yeah, no footage of that in here, but you can definitely see

26:17SPEAKERplenty of goofy shit in this episode. Look, I've heard that it's impossible to get video

26:24SPEAKERoff of the internet. It is impossible to find videos or photographs of that booth at this

26:29SPEAKERpoint. Yeah. It's lost to history. I want to know what the Microsoft executive reaction

26:34SPEAKERat that time was when they walked up to their, to their, this thing that they were spending

26:38SPEAKERmillions of dollars on. And there's this, these assholes from Texas who made this horrifically

26:44SPEAKERoffensive booth. Yeah. I mean, that is an amazing example of like, those guys were just

26:48SPEAKERa bunch of 20 something metal heads, nerds, you know, they're idiots with too much money

26:53SPEAKERwith too much, but the, but the, with too much money is the, is the operative part here

26:57SPEAKERbecause they had capital to throw at stupid ideas like this. And they did so well. And

27:02SPEAKERat the same time, like why the fuck isn't somebody, one of the grownups in the room

27:06SPEAKERsaying, Hey, look, man, you can't do this. This isn't okay. I think it's pretty clear

27:09SPEAKERthat there were no grownups. I mean, I fair. I mean, look, we, yes, eighties sales, computer

27:16SPEAKERsales guys, it turns out we're not thinking about about how to make the market anyway.

27:23SPEAKERWhatever it's bad. The other interesting thing I pulled out of this that I had no idea about

27:28SPEAKERis that Sony apparently ported some early PlayStation games to windows 95 and they had

27:34SPEAKERlike twisted metal. Yes. Like twisted metal and war hawk are shown running on windows

27:38SPEAKER95 here. Those are PlayStation launch games. Yep. Also this was, I think they ever come

27:43SPEAKERout. No, that's what I'm getting to. Let me check real quick. I think this was before

27:47SPEAKERthe PlayStation launched in America. I'm like shortly before, like very shortly, like, cause

27:51SPEAKERit launched in 90 late 95, 95. I want to say it might've been September. I could look real

27:57SPEAKERquick if we care. But yeah, the interesting, so yeah, it came out in December 94 in Japan.

28:04SPEAKERI think, I think it was, yes, it was right around here, September, I believe. Anyway.

28:09SPEAKERThat's interesting.

28:10SPEAKERYeah. So the twisted metal port did come out only in Japan for windows 95. So like that

28:16SPEAKERis out there because it was released, but only in Japanese. The war hawk port was just

28:20SPEAKERstraight canceled. So it never saw the light of day. I couldn't find like, I don't think

28:24SPEAKERit ever leaked or anything like that, but it's kind of wild to think back then, like

28:29SPEAKERthat's awfully early for, especially like a Japanese company to be porting their games

28:33SPEAKERto PC, because like, you know, it happened a little bit over the years, like final fantasy

28:37SPEAKERseven and a few others made it the PC after that, but it was not a big thing. So like

28:41SPEAKERthis is like an interesting little loss to history thing.

28:44SPEAKERWell, I have to imagine that Microsoft made the same offer, right. To a bunch of people

28:49SPEAKERthey're like, Hey, we would like to bring, I'm sure they called Nintendo. Like we would

28:52SPEAKERlike to bring Mario, super Mario, super Mario world to windows. And yeah, the same thing

28:58SPEAKERthat the same deal that it famously, when they ported Super Mario brothers three to

29:02SPEAKERthe PC. Right. But yeah, I, I feel like I feel like that is, that is, those are the

29:10SPEAKERpeople that said, yes. It's interesting that they were working with Sega at that point

29:14SPEAKERtoo. Cause like, like they ended up having a pretty good collaboration with Sega cause

29:17SPEAKERthe dreamcast ran win CE or something. Right. Yes it did. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, this event

29:25SPEAKERwent notoriously over budget. Like it was an enormous boondoggle. Eventually it took

29:34SPEAKERa few years after this, I believe, but eventually Alex St. John was sacked from Microsoft for

29:38SPEAKERbeing an asshole. And this, but this was the beginning of DirectX on windows. Like this

29:44SPEAKERis, this is the consumer kickoff of this, of this big of the, of the idea that you could

29:49SPEAKERplay games on your windows. Cause prior to that windows 3.1 games were incredibly limited.

29:55SPEAKERI think I want to say like mist ran on windows 3.1. Yeah. Like a lot of the early Sierra

29:58SPEAKERgames did. I mean, but it was very much limited to like point and click, like kind of multimedia

30:03SPEAKERexperiences. I would say like things that were made in hypercard and that sort of thing,

30:06SPEAKERyou know, like stuff with video and like still graphics, but action games were absolutely

30:10SPEAKERnot a thing in windows at that point. Nothing that required any kind of frame rate or Twitch

30:13SPEAKERgraphics or Twitch reactions or anything like that. So it was a big deal and it was interesting

30:19SPEAKERto see their presentation of it. I wonder how much of the footage that they got was

30:22SPEAKERcompletely unusable for this event because of the, like, there, apparently there was

30:26SPEAKERlike blood every, it was, it seems it reading about it now, it feels really icky in a way

30:33SPEAKERthat I haven't experienced it at an event in a long time. So what, what's up next? Well,

30:39SPEAKERlet's see, they, there was a shocking number of FMV games on this one.

30:43SPEAKERYeah. This also made me remember that computer Chronicles really just whips through the in

30:46SPEAKERstudio demos. Like he just, Stuart just does not stop. Like he kind of like, I love the

30:52SPEAKERguy. He's a, he's a good host. He, he kind of talks over the guests a lot. Like he really

30:57SPEAKERjust sort of like bulldozers in with his next question before they can even finish making

31:02SPEAKERtheir point. But there was a literal timer on the wall behind the guests so you could

31:06SPEAKERsee how long the segments were going. That's fair. You know, like, yeah, I mean these are

31:09SPEAKERtight 28 minute episodes. Yeah. And, and they don't, I don't think these were edited. I

31:14SPEAKERdon't think the studio segments were edited because they do. What were the two they did

31:18SPEAKERback to bow? He was, they did journeyman project two and then MEC warrior two back to back.

31:22SPEAKERAnd like literally the reps for both games were sitting like right next to each other.

31:26SPEAKERAnd he'd literally just stood up from one demo and walked over to the other table and

31:30SPEAKERstarted the next one, like no editing at all. And like, and that sounds like knowing how

31:34SPEAKERhard it is to keep a live show going and like stay on point and like not trip over your

31:38SPEAKERwords and stuff. Like he, he was pretty professional in that sense. Well, yeah, he, yeah, like

31:42SPEAKERhe did a piece to the camera as he's walking over and maybe not on this episode, but in

31:45SPEAKERsome of them he definitely did. So, so pro for sure. Yeah. It was, it was fun to see

31:49SPEAKERphantasmagoria cause I haven't looked at that game in like, I don't know, 20 years probably.

31:54SPEAKERSo I never played it despite being a huge Sierra. I mean, I kind of fall off. I was

31:58SPEAKERlike, you know, like, like doom and quake and stuff were happening at this point. I

32:02SPEAKERwas like, Oh, I could just blow things up instead of pointing and clicking. But anyway,

32:05SPEAKERI didn't realize phantasmagoria was as much of a point and click as it was. I thought

32:09SPEAKERit was a lot more FMV based, which I'm sure they use for cut scenes, but like you're still,

32:13SPEAKERyou're still clicking a character around a background and picking up objects and doing

32:17SPEAKERpuzzle stuff. Like I didn't realize it was still like kind of one of those. Well, it

32:21SPEAKERwas super imposed. Like they would, they, I think they green screened the character

32:25SPEAKERaction bits and then super impose them on the backgrounds that were sometimes FMV and

32:28SPEAKERsometimes 3d and sometimes painted or whatever. It's funny. This is when I was like, this

32:34SPEAKERwas the summer that I spent, I made a lot of money installing windows 95 and running

32:37SPEAKERnetworks for people. So I had cash to spend on games and was going to EB and buying games

32:41SPEAKERwhen I wasn't working all the time. And a seven disc FMV adventure game. Like this was

32:48SPEAKERvery much in the Tex Murphy kind of mold, right? Like, Hey, here's some, here's some

32:53SPEAKERterrible 3d backgrounds of things that we're going to put live characters on top of mortal

32:57SPEAKERcombat style. I can't imagine what it was like recording these games. Like, and it was

33:05SPEAKERfunny cause so Roberta Williams did the presentation and she got more time than anybody. She got

33:11SPEAKERmore time than I think I've ever seen on a demo on this show. I mean, rightfully so.

33:15SPEAKERWell, I mean fair. Yeah. But, but like she, I never realized some stuff. She talked about

33:21SPEAKERlike the, the end loop. So the end, end sequence was really hard in this game and it was complete

33:26SPEAKERtrial and error. And you had 10 seconds to make each choice and it was like a series

33:30SPEAKERof 10 second choices. And I guess the 10 second choices were because that meant they only

33:35SPEAKERhad to record 10 seconds of video for the actress who played the hero in the game. But,

33:41SPEAKERbut it like, it was a, it was a game about a woman whose husband, like it was basically

33:47SPEAKERthe shining, but, but played from, from the wife's perspective instead of from the, from,

33:53SPEAKERfrom the husband's perspective, the big spooky mansion or hotel or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

33:59SPEAKERYeah. They bought a house and it's haunted magicians, cults, whatever, yada, yada. It

34:03SPEAKERwas a good game. I enjoyed that game a lot. Yeah. It's neat to see that being presented

34:07SPEAKERin context. Also, she mentioned something very offhandedly toward the end that red is

34:12SPEAKERvery grim to me in retrospect, where this was the last thing she worked on. Wasn't it?

34:17SPEAKERI think that's right. Yeah. This would have been pretty close to the point where they

34:23SPEAKERsold and everything, but like knowing how Sierra ended up, like she mentioned offhandedly,

34:26SPEAKERshe was like, Oh yeah, for my, my next game, I would love to make a fully 3d adventure

34:30SPEAKERgame with a real 3d world. And like knowing a, what happened to Sierra B what happened

34:35SPEAKERto King's quest after Sierra kind of got folded into your companies and like, remember mask.

34:43SPEAKERI never played mask of eternity, but it's the last King's quest game and has an awful

34:46SPEAKERreputation.

34:47SPEAKERYeah. I never played any of those.

34:49SPEAKERIt's a, it's a, it is a fully 3d King's quest that is not looked on kindly and like also

34:54SPEAKERtheir company kind of imploded in the process.

34:57SPEAKERI think the world would have been better if they'd kept making games longer.

35:00SPEAKERYeah. It's a real shame looking back on all that stuff.

35:04SPEAKERThe, the, the, they also talked about in the first degree, which I'd never heard of before

35:08SPEAKERwas a Broderbund game. There was the Broderbund game follow up to mist courtroom drama as

35:13SPEAKERthe, as the sequel, not sequel, but the next game from the mist publisher. Did it ever

35:18SPEAKERactually come out?

35:19SPEAKERI assume so. I've never heard of it. I feel like you guys would have had FMV here we go.

35:28SPEAKERIn the first degree, 1995 adventure game. Yeah. It came out. You can, you can download

35:34SPEAKERit from a band and wear things. It's a thousand. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's almost a gig.

35:41SPEAKERWow.

35:42SPEAKERYeah.

35:43SPEAKERIt's like two disks.

35:46SPEAKERThat's that demo was replete with references to the OJ Simpson trial from Stewart. Of course.

35:53SPEAKERLook, Brad, they started working on it two years before the events of the OJ trial.

35:58SPEAKERThe developer really wanted you to know that. Yeah. We have like a good two year headstart

36:02SPEAKERon that trial. Just so you know journeyman project too, that we mentioned was there.

36:07SPEAKERThis was another banger. I never played this. I never played either of those. Oh, you got

36:11SPEAKERto trade those. So like they, their solution to, Hey, the characters can't acknowledge

36:16SPEAKERthe other human characters can't acknowledge you whatsoever because you're a time traveler.

36:21SPEAKERYeah. I'm trying to anybody who sees me has to die. So, but also you couldn't kill them

36:27SPEAKERbecause they didn't want to have a violent cause they wanted it to not be a violent game.

36:30SPEAKERSo it was always like an arrow would fly in from off screen when somebody spotted you

36:34SPEAKERor they'd get whacked on the head by a falling brick in an earthquake or that's just causality,

36:39SPEAKERyou know? Yeah. Things have to, things have to work out. It's like, it's the final destination

36:44SPEAKERof video games. Like the moment, the moment a human shows up and sees you, you go, these

36:49SPEAKERwere like mist style. So you'd like 90 degree turns navigating through the environment.

36:54SPEAKERMost of them were kind of bad 3d renders that they did. Video, they made video like quick

37:01SPEAKERtime video pipes through. Do you know why the, why the viewport in this game was so

37:04SPEAKERsmall because the actual thing you can like the action that is that you can see is like

37:08SPEAKERmaybe a fifth of the screen at most, but these random Doss. So there was no, there were no

37:14SPEAKERvideo drivers. So you had to like, this was what you could run. This was the resolution

37:17SPEAKERthat you could play video at off of a CD rom. Sure. Yeah. Cause you, cause remember they

37:22SPEAKERwere dealing with like, like some of these would require two X CD roms probably. So you'd

37:26SPEAKERget like 300 kilobits per second was your video bit rate, maximum video bit rate. Sure.

37:31SPEAKERYeah. It was real muddy. Yeah. I want to see, I don't know if you've been paying attention

37:37SPEAKERto this, but somebody is using machine sampling machine, machine learning up sampling on like

37:42SPEAKERthe old Tex Murphy adventures. That stuff's everywhere. Like I found a, I found a YouTube

37:46SPEAKERchannel that is up sampling all the FMV from wing commander three. Oh my God. Oh my God.

37:51SPEAKERIt's you know, I bet those, I bet the karate look really bad. It is a mixed success. I

37:56SPEAKERwould say. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think, do you think that AI video up sampling is going to

38:01SPEAKERget good enough that at some point we will just have like pristine HD video of everything

38:05SPEAKERfrom that era or is it never going to quite, I don't know. I think the, I think the, the

38:10SPEAKERsub standard deaf TV stuff is going to be, I think standard deaf TV resolutions and lower

38:16SPEAKERare going to be hard. I think when you have a thousand, when you have the 5 million pixel

38:20SPEAKERor however many pixel million pixels are in HD 1080p stuff, I think that's, I feel like

38:25SPEAKERthat era is going to be easily up sampled. For sure. For sure. I've tried to dabble a

38:29SPEAKERlittle bit with that stuff with some of the open source tools that are out there. I tried

38:32SPEAKERfeeding some old home movies that were recorded on crappy old VHS tapes and then digitized.

38:37SPEAKERSo like it's hard. It's it is tough to get anything usable out of that at all. Yeah.

38:44SPEAKERAnd especially cause it's not just the tools. It's also like you have to go and look through

38:48SPEAKERdata sets and decide like, okay, I'm going to use this data set that was trained on this

38:52SPEAKERmany hours of footage by this person. And it's mostly anime. No, I don't want that.

38:56SPEAKERYou know what I mean? Like there's multiple components. It's not just feed this into a

38:59SPEAKERcommand line tool and it just works. Yeah. It's it's still early enough that there is

39:03SPEAKERa real nuance and skill to doing that stuff. And there are no one-on-one shot tools. Yeah.

39:08SPEAKERMechWarrior 2. MechWarrior 2. Hold on. Journeyman Project 2 was a 40 hour FMV game. Yeah. That's

39:14SPEAKERwhat he said. He said like, oh, it'll take you 40 to 50 hours to finish. That's insane.

39:20SPEAKERSorry. MechWarrior 2. MechWarrior 2 I would happily play for 40 to 50 hours. Did you actually

39:26SPEAKERplay MechWarrior 2? Hell yeah. Like I bought it when it came out. Like I have a deep fondness

39:32SPEAKERfor MechWarrior 2. Oh, I got it with a Rage 2 card, I think. Okay. Yeah. You wrote here

39:36SPEAKERin the notes that it might be running on Rage 2 card. I'm pretty sure this was software

39:40SPEAKERbecause they ran down the specs of the machine that this was running on pretty extensively

39:44SPEAKERand didn't mention anything about a card. Look, I'm going to tell you from personal

39:47SPEAKERexperience, Stuart Chafé has always been a little skeptical about 3D accelerators. I

39:51SPEAKERcould see that. I play, I definitely played the software version. This was MechWarrior

39:56SPEAKER2 was in that weird era, that weird in-between where games were starting to run at Super

40:02SPEAKERVGA. So 640 by 480, but before the cards were really out and available, this was before

40:06SPEAKER3D effects. Yeah. So there was this awful like year 18 months where it was like Wing

40:12SPEAKERCommander 3 and this, and you know, some of those Tex Murphy games, like running, running

40:17SPEAKERat that resolution without acceleration was very difficult. Yeah. Like you were talking

40:21SPEAKER5 to 15 frames a second, depending on like the speed of your CPU. Yeah. This, this MechWarrior

40:28SPEAKER2 demo looked like it was running at most at about 15 frames a second. And, and yeah,

40:37SPEAKERI mean, look, the secret, the secret of those early pre 3D effects, 3D accelerators is they

40:41SPEAKERdidn't really accelerate that much 3D. They were just doing texture sampling. So like

40:44SPEAKERthe Rage 2s and the S3 Verges and all that were, were 3D, you could get a 3D accelerated

40:50SPEAKERversion of MechWarrior 2 for those, but they didn't really accelerate anything. Yeah. Yeah.

40:56SPEAKERThis was, yes. What the minimum hardware was, which the guy from Activision also, this was

41:01SPEAKERlike pretty shitty Activision Activision, which is always weird. I don't know. I'd say

41:05SPEAKERActivision was probably still shitty back then. Just nobody talked about it. I don't

41:08SPEAKERknow. Like not, not Bobby Kotick shitty. Well, yeah. I would assume that every game studio

41:15SPEAKERwas shitty from in, in many of the same ways that Activision has been shitty to women.

41:19SPEAKERPossibly. Possibly. Yeah. For sure. But anyway, he said, he said 486, 6, DX 66 was like the

41:25SPEAKERminimum, which come on, you're not going to play MechWarrior 2 on that. Well, but, but

41:31SPEAKERthen he follows it up with, but it always plays better on a penny. Well, yeah. And also

41:34SPEAKERI think it was a penny in 133 that were running it on there. Anyway, MechWarrior 2 rules like

41:38SPEAKERit is, I haven't played it in a very long time to be fair. I'm just more of a heavy

41:41SPEAKERgear guy. That was later though. I think. Also an all time soundtrack, which if you

41:47SPEAKERhappen to have your CD, as I do is red book audio and you can rip and put in your library.

41:53SPEAKERThey, they had an online gaming segment, which was always funny at this time. Cause like

41:57SPEAKERthis was when before, you know, prior to windows 95 windows didn't have a TCP IP stack built

42:03SPEAKERin. Right. So it was a, it was a real process to get online. Yeah. So they highlighted imagination

42:08SPEAKERwith capital N, which was Sierra's online gaming network. I think it started out as

42:13SPEAKER10 T E N the entertainment network. It became that after this. It was 10 after imagination.

42:18SPEAKERYeah. It was 10 and one were the other one W O N. So you could play spades there for

42:24SPEAKERyears. Yes. A lot of card games here. It's so quaint. Like they talk to, they talk to

42:29SPEAKERlike a working mother who was big on imagination and like, it's so quaint because they go through

42:35SPEAKERlike the little avatar creation process, or you make kind of a little cartoony pixelated.

42:39SPEAKERYou can have like anything you wanted as long as they were white and she's like, and she's

42:43SPEAKERlike, she said, oh, you meet people from all over the country and get to know them and

42:47SPEAKERyou're playing cards and it's nice or whatever. And it's just, the whole thing is just so

42:50SPEAKERinnocent and quaint compared to what online interaction has become. Well, and also, also

42:56SPEAKERshe's like, sometimes I get really into it and get and stay up until 2 a.m. playing spades

43:00SPEAKERor hearts. Hearts was the thing we were really into, but now it's blah, blah, blah. Yeah.

43:05SPEAKERIt's funny.

43:06SPEAKERI wonder, you actually made me wonder if you got, so I, I, if I remember, I want to say

43:11SPEAKERthey were putting like imagination installers in magazines and stuff. Cause it's like the

43:15SPEAKERsubscription fee is how they made the money. Like it was like five bucks a month or 10

43:18SPEAKERbucks. They wanted to America online, the software out there to everyone. But it makes

43:21SPEAKERme wonder because this was like pre ubiquitous internet access. Like did that installer have

43:26SPEAKERits own TCP IP stack that it would set up for you or I think you dialed in directly

43:31SPEAKERto their network. You're totally right. That was not over the internet. That was your dialing

43:34SPEAKERdirectly into phone banks that they had set up, right?

43:37SPEAKERSo eventually it became an internet thing. Yeah. Like 10 and one and all that is like,

43:42SPEAKERcause remember the 10 is how you connected to half-life multiplayer for a long time as

43:46SPEAKERI recall. I think so. That's wild. I mean, yeah. Sierra was the publisher of yeah. Yeah.

43:51SPEAKEROf half-life. It was weird then. And then like it was, this was, this would have been

43:57SPEAKERaround the same time that like Duango was how you play doom with a modem. Right. It's

44:04SPEAKERa different time for online games. I remember it's funny. My, my daughter plays roadblocks

44:09SPEAKERand just plays with random people around the world on the day to day. And I'm, I'm, I'm

44:15SPEAKERin awe slash jealousy. Cause like growing up and living in the country where I did,

44:21SPEAKERif I wanted to play computer games or Nintendo games with somebody else, I had to like have

44:25SPEAKERa sleepover basically. Yeah. I, I tend to think like, I'm not sure how to articulate

44:30SPEAKERthis. I've, I've thought this over for a while. Like some of the limitations you grow up with

44:36SPEAKERand that kind of contexts are, I mean, they're so intrinsic to your experience that like,

44:40SPEAKERI don't necessarily like envy kids who have way more options for online stuff or whatever

44:45SPEAKERthese days. Cause it's like, I don't know. Like I said, I don't quite know how to put

44:49SPEAKERthis into words, but like having very limited access to stuff like that is still part of

44:54SPEAKERwhat kind of formed my experience, you know? And like, I value that as much as if it had

44:59SPEAKERbeen better.

45:00SPEAKERWell, yeah, like having somebody to play chess, like my grandmother came over every Sunday

45:03SPEAKERand we played chess cause she liked to play chess and she was the only person in the family

45:06SPEAKERwho liked to play chess. And like, had I had access to an infinite number of chess players

45:11SPEAKERaround my skill level or just slightly above my skill level at any given moment, probably

45:16SPEAKERwouldn't have cherished that time. We wouldn't have spent hours around the chess board talking

45:20SPEAKERabout like what it was like to be her and what it was like to be me and stuff like that.

45:24SPEAKERSo you were absolutely correct. But also, man, it would have been cool to be able to

45:28SPEAKERplay doom with a bunch of people when I was a freshman in college. Anyway. They also talked

45:36SPEAKERabout Mudds. I don't know. Did you ever play, did you ever do Mudds? You were an IRC guy.

45:39SPEAKERYeah, but that was later. I think Mudds had really fallen out of favor by then. It was

45:43SPEAKERkind of late nineties when I got on IRC. I mean, so this, this segment is more about

45:47SPEAKERlike a website that they found that aggregates Mudds as opposed to really talking much about

45:51SPEAKERplaying Mudds themselves. Like even here that Mudds feel a little bit anachronistic because

45:55SPEAKERthey're showing all these like CD-ROM multimedia games and MechWarrior and like the PlayStation.

46:00SPEAKERAnd then here is this little game you play in a terminal window over Telnet.

46:03SPEAKERWell, so they did a bad job. It's great because the person who introduced me to Mudds were

46:07SPEAKERlike, yeah, it's like a text adventure that you play with multiple people.

46:10SPEAKEROh, that sounds awesome.

46:12SPEAKERYeah. I'm in for, I'm in for this. The thing having played a fair number of Mudds in when

46:17SPEAKERI was in college in like 97, 98 any time your Mudd was mentioned in any kind of mainstream

46:24SPEAKERcontext, mainstream media context, it basically ruined it for like at least a month because

46:30SPEAKERyou'd have like the endless summer effect inside that Mudd. Cause a bunch of new people

46:34SPEAKERwould come in and they'd crap up this new barriers. You'd have to, you'd have to you'd

46:39SPEAKERhave to, everybody would have to vacate. The old timers would all pick a room someplace

46:43SPEAKERfar away to come do the social stuff. And then, you know, you'd, people would make their

46:47SPEAKERway in eventually.

46:48SPEAKERDo you think there are a lot of Mudds running these days?

46:50SPEAKERThere are a ton of Mudds because like, look running a Mudd, like I can, I can run a Mudd

46:56SPEAKERthat will hold a million people on a pie right now, man. Yeah. We should have a, we should

47:01SPEAKERhave a, we should, Hey Brad, what if we got really into Mudds? We should have a tech pod

47:05SPEAKERand we should, we should absolutely do that. I'm searching for Mudds is pretty tough these

47:10SPEAKERdays. Let's see.

47:11SPEAKERYou just get a lot of stories about wet dirt.

47:13SPEAKERIf I search for Mudd game, perhaps I kind of, I kind of, now I want to know, I, I less

47:20SPEAKERnow want to know about Mudds that are running that I can play and more about like Mudd frameworks

47:24SPEAKERthat I can host myself. Like what is, what is the popular Mudd engine?

47:28SPEAKERSo like Lambda Moo, the Moo is the, probably the thing you want to do because it's extensible.

47:33SPEAKEROkay. It's like user extensible. So if you give

47:36SPEAKERusers the right permissions and they can write scripts that, that add on to the, you can

47:40SPEAKERadd like connections to the existing rooms and stuff like that.

47:44SPEAKEROnline community of the variety called it. What is, is there a distinction between Moo

47:49SPEAKERand Mudd? Yeah. I don't remember what it is though.

47:52SPEAKERA, a, Oh, apparently a Moo is a type of Mudd. Yes.

47:57SPEAKERIt's a subset. It's a, what is this? A nested, a nested acronym.

48:01SPEAKERMudd object oriented or something, I don't know. Mudd is a multi-user dungeon and a Moo

48:04SPEAKERis a Mudd, object oriented. Yeah. So, so you could, you could write code

48:09SPEAKERthat references other code, I guess in the Moo. I can't remember how. And it's all like

48:14SPEAKERpre JavaScript stuff even. So it's, I don't, I don't even know what kind of, what kind

48:17SPEAKERof scripting you use. It's probably some weird bespoke language. It's only used for Mudds.

48:21SPEAKERWait, can you, Oh wow. Lambda Moo came out of Xerox park.

48:25SPEAKERYeah. Lambda Moo. I played on Lambda Moo for a long time because you could build your own

48:29SPEAKERrooms. And then you had to convince somebody to hook your room into their room. So like,

48:34SPEAKERlike, cause people own permissions over their rooms, over there, the stuff that they created.

48:39SPEAKERSo like the closer you could get to the root, to the starting room, the better your room

48:45SPEAKERwas and the more likely people were to actually see it. But like you, you would, so you would

48:51SPEAKERsay, Hey, you own this room. Will you like, let me put a portal on grabbing a candlestick

48:56SPEAKERin this room or whatever. And you'd get magically ported away to your part of the dungeon. Then

49:00SPEAKERyou could build your own adventure from there. It was really fun.

49:03SPEAKEROkay. I found it. Yeah. I found, I found the source forge page for Lambda Moo with a CVS

49:10SPEAKERrepository.

49:11SPEAKEROh, perfect.

49:12SPEAKERThat's how old this thing is. Maybe.

49:14SPEAKERWell, yeah. I mean, I, I would have played Lambda Moo in like 96, probably 90, 97.

49:19SPEAKERThis repository for the server was last modified in the year 2000.

49:24SPEAKERThat seems right. Maybe, maybe somebody is now hosting it on GitHub. I don't know.

49:27SPEAKERI bet somebody has ported it to Python at this point. I'm sure there are way of, I'm

49:32SPEAKERsure there are more modern ways to get something like this up and running. I wish I had more

49:36SPEAKERtime to dabble with something like this. This sounds awesome.

49:39SPEAKERLook, this should, this should be a next lander. Brad makes a mud is a perfect next lander

49:44SPEAKERseries.

49:45SPEAKERDo people really want to watch a stream of a giant terminal window?

49:48SPEAKERI think, I think they would watch that and you would get good ideas and they would help

49:51SPEAKERyou with the code. And anyway, there were news hits. There's always news hits at the

49:57SPEAKERend of a computer Chronicles.

49:59SPEAKERYeah. The Pentium pro was being rolled out, which I don't know how I had kind of forgotten

50:03SPEAKERthat the Pentium pro existed.

50:05SPEAKERSo it was cause it was a bad product. They couldn't make enough of them because they

50:09SPEAKERbonded the L2. So the Pentium pro was a Pentium two or what would have become the Pentium

50:15SPEAKERtwo with a bonded L2 cache that ran at the full CPU clock speed. So you could get like

50:19SPEAKERa 200 megahertz L2 cache, which was very important for performance back then.

50:23SPEAKERTo be clear, this was, this was the successor architecture to the Pentium, right? Yes. Okay.

50:27SPEAKERIt's the P6. That's why I guess I had kind of forgotten about the Pentium pro branding,

50:31SPEAKERbut it was known as the P6 internally.

50:33SPEAKERWell, yeah, cause the Pentium was the, the Pentium was a 586 theoretically. This would

50:38SPEAKERhave been a 686.

50:39SPEAKERRight. Like you said, this sort of was an offshoot that then kind of, they'd steered

50:44SPEAKERback onto track as the Pentium two.

50:45SPEAKERWell, the problem was they didn't build this in such a way that they could test the CPU

50:50SPEAKERand the L2 cache independently to see if they worked. So as I recall, they had to bind them

50:58SPEAKERto each other permanently before they could find out if there was a problem with either

51:02SPEAKERone. And as a result, their yields were abysmal on them. And, and in finding out that one

51:08SPEAKERpart had died, they ruined the other good part. So like it was, it was like a very inefficient

51:13SPEAKERway to make a CPU. And as a result, they came up with the P2 slot design, which had the

51:20SPEAKERCPU and the L2 cache on this card that slotted into a, into the motherboard instead of used

51:25SPEAKERa socket. Also worth mentioning part of this was to move everybody off of socket seven

51:31SPEAKERso that the, the competitive CPUs that were a socket seven compatible, which was an open

51:37SPEAKERsocket standard that was available to a bunch of manufacturers, including like AMD and Cyrix

51:42SPEAKERIntel wanted to get everybody onto their own proprietary bullshit so that you couldn't

51:45SPEAKERjust buy another CPU that was better than the one you had and put it in your computer.

51:48SPEAKERAnd that's how your CPU became a cartridge. Yeah, exactly. The worth mentioning the Pentium

51:54SPEAKERtwo slot design, the cartridge, the L2 speed was half cat half speed. So it ran at one

51:58SPEAKERhalf the CPU speed of the, of the, of the processor because it was going obviously going

52:03SPEAKERover a much slower interconnect than being on the die. Yeah, but it was, they, they kind

52:07SPEAKERof accounted for that by doing a bigger L2 cache because it was cheap to put on the half

52:11SPEAKERspeed stuff. The interesting thing here is that this is what gave rise to the Celeron.

52:16SPEAKERSo the Celeron was a slot design originally, but there was no external L2 cache. They just

52:22SPEAKERput a very small amount of internal full speed L2 cache, which it turned out for most workloads

52:27SPEAKERat the time was totally fine. And took completely counterbalanced by the fact that you could

52:33SPEAKERoverclock them by like one and a half times. So we have waxed nostalgic about the Celeron

52:37SPEAKER300a on numerous occasions. Love that Celeron 300a. So yeah, that's, that was, that was,

52:43SPEAKERit was interesting. They talked about that because I had, as you said, completely forgotten

52:46SPEAKERthat the Pentium pro existed and now thinking back on it, the fact that they called it the

52:50SPEAKERPentium pro made me, makes me think, Oh, Intel totally knew that this wasn't going to be

52:56SPEAKERa scalable thing, but they wanted to get something out in the market. So they gave it this weird

53:00SPEAKERname knowing that the Pentium two would be the real product. And it was just lagging

53:04SPEAKERbehind by six months or a year. Yeah. I I'm like risking getting out of my depth here,

53:08SPEAKERbut looking at the Wikipedia page for the P6, I feel like I remember this in the press

53:11SPEAKERat the time, this, this looks like this was the start of Intel steering in a more risk-like

53:16SPEAKERdirection for the internal function of this thing. P6 processors dynamically translate

53:22SPEAKERIA 32 instructions into sequences of buffered risk-like micro operations. Like you see that

53:27SPEAKERa lot now these days of people saying like, my, my sense again, I super am a layman when

53:34SPEAKERit comes to CPU design, but like you see a lot of people these days saying like terms

53:37SPEAKERlike risk and CISC are kind of outdated because there's so much overlap and kind of interoperation

53:42SPEAKERor like in terms of design philosophy between the two that like those distinctions aren't

53:46SPEAKERreally all that relevant anymore. Here's the secret. They never were that relevant.

53:51SPEAKERAnyway, I mean, it did, it didn't matter because you ran the software that was compiled for

53:56SPEAKERthe system you had. They did work differently at one point. They, I think they have very

54:01SPEAKERdifferent like kind of pipeline philosophies, but anyway,

54:04SPEAKERBut everything's been hybridized to the point. And that's what I think the thing to remember

54:08SPEAKERis the P pro the P two and P three were all basically the same architecture. The, the

54:14SPEAKERP four was the one that got super risky because they were like, look, we're going to make

54:19SPEAKERa bunch of these deep, long risk pipelines that we can, so we can clock it up because

54:28SPEAKERnumbers matter. So we're going to build something. We can clock up to four gigahertz and whether

54:32SPEAKERthe process can handle it or not, we'll, we'll, we'll design the architecture around getting

54:37SPEAKERbig numbers over performance. So anyway, this, they talked about spark ultra, which was,

54:46SPEAKERwhich was an interest. Like I don't have any person. I think, I feel like those were the

54:49SPEAKERworkstations we used in CS 100, but maybe not. Yeah. I didn't look up too much about

54:54SPEAKERthis. I, I, I gathered that the ultra was just sort of kind of next generation spark.

54:59SPEAKERI, I, that, that was my recollection, but I ultimately it didn't matter in terms of

55:05SPEAKERthe success of the platform. You mean? Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, I mean, look, this is,

55:11SPEAKERlike I said, in a, in a different universe, we're all running spark terminals now. Right?

55:16SPEAKERYeah. Like dumb piece of box, smart terminals, terminals that dial into. Yeah. I just read

55:23SPEAKERlast night that Alumos has actually just, this was, this is not recent. I guess this

55:26SPEAKERwas sometime in the last year that Alumos dropped spark support. Wow. Alumos is the

55:32SPEAKERit's the, what's the open source fork of Solaris from, from before Oracle bought sun and kind

55:39SPEAKERof did what they did to all of sun. But essentially the open source successor to the OS that ran

55:46SPEAKERon sparks has now dropped support for spark processors. So like that's kind of end of

55:50SPEAKERan era. I think Linux still builds against spark, I believe, from what I could find.

55:58SPEAKERI just find that stuff. I know we've talked about like deck alphas and you know, old MIPS

56:02SPEAKERCPU's and stuff. I find all that big iron CPU stuff from back then fascinating, even

56:07SPEAKERthough it's all kind of in the rear view mirror at this point, but like, especially watching

56:10SPEAKERLinux slowly deprecate support for stuff like that.

56:13SPEAKERI had, I had a deck alpha machine that I had to maintain for a little bit. And it was,

56:19SPEAKERit was the, at the time I was like, this is the hottest machine I've ever had to deal

56:23SPEAKERwith because that thing got so hot. And it's probably like a $15 cooler, master cooler

56:29SPEAKERnow, you know what I mean? It's yeah. Anyway. There was also a new segment that was like,

56:35SPEAKERit was funny because sometimes they would pull these things that were clearly like home

56:38SPEAKERcamera or they'd send somebody to record a press conference and there'd be some computer

56:44SPEAKERexecutive standing up there in a, in a, in a bad jacket, bad sport coat, holding a microphone

56:49SPEAKERin about his waist level. Kind of like I noticed his bad microphone discipline. Oh yeah. And,

56:55SPEAKERand like you think about the difference between that, like a guy in a conference room at like

57:00SPEAKERa random office park in Menlo park somewhere and Apple building a 500 seat theater to roll

57:07SPEAKERout iPhones and think about the 25 years and the difference in that.

57:11SPEAKERI mean, he's literally just standing in a room with people around him. Like there's

57:14SPEAKERno stage, there's no nothing. He's literally just standing up. Other people are just kind

57:18SPEAKERof milling around like there's zero pomp to the whole thing.

57:21SPEAKERI assume that there's a coffee urn just out of shot on the right or the left from him.

57:26SPEAKERRight. And like, he doesn't even seem excited about the product. Like he's, he's, he's clearly

57:31SPEAKERnot had, he's not been media trained at all. Right. But he described what was on their

57:36SPEAKERwebsite about medical stuff as content, which would have been an early, an early, Oh yeah,

57:41SPEAKERwe're making, we're putting content on the web.

57:44SPEAKERI don't like it. Not a fan. Also, I will say all the random shots of Netscape and this

57:51SPEAKERthing made me really nostalgic. Oh yeah. I guess. I mean, whatever. Netscape was the

57:55SPEAKERbrowser back then. Right. Yeah. This was like I said, before the monopoly, right? Yeah.

58:01SPEAKERIt was, it was a two, but a glint on Microsoft's Microsoft's I feel like you've got internet

58:09SPEAKERexplorer with the plus pack. Right. Yeah. I don't know. I was not on the internet at

58:12SPEAKERthis time. This was a little before we didn't, we got internet, I think like a year after

58:16SPEAKERthis or something, but yeah, this was, yeah. I'd been on the internet for probably two

58:20SPEAKERyears at this point, but all shell stuff. Yes. Right. I was a staunch Netscape user

58:25SPEAKERfor as long as Netscape was around. Yeah. It's it's this, this, as I, we've talked about

58:31SPEAKERthis before, but windows 95 is when I got, I got, I got a, a non shell account to the,

58:37SPEAKERto the internet around the time windows 95 came out and it turns out I'd probably had

58:41SPEAKERaccess to it for a long time. I just didn't know how to turn it on. Actually, hang on.

58:44SPEAKERThis is, I'm really reaching here. Was Netscape navigator 3.0 like a big disaster? I'm trying

58:49SPEAKERto 2.0 was the one that was the popular one. 2.0 was the one like 2.0 was the better one.

58:55SPEAKERDead rock, super solid. Like that's the go-to browser. I feel like I remember three coming

58:59SPEAKERout and being kind of a mess. I don't think it was bad. I think, I think IE was just the

59:04SPEAKERshipped with the computer and you didn't have to download anything to use like this. Remember

59:09SPEAKERthis was at a time when the difference between 256 kilobytes and 756 kilobytes was substantial

59:16SPEAKERin terms of download, download time, right? Like if you had to download two megabytes,

59:21SPEAKERyou were going to take an hour and a half or two hours to do that. The weird, weird time.

59:26SPEAKERYes. Speaking of weird time at the, there's like a little addendum at the end of this

59:30SPEAKERthing. I don't know. I don't even know if the segment had a name or whatever, but yes,

59:33SPEAKERall of a sudden, like here is Stuart with a PlayStation and a Saturn in front of him.

59:37SPEAKERBrad, did you know that the kids love Panzer Dragoon?

59:41SPEAKERDo they? He was like, here's the sake of Saturn with a great title, Panzer Dragoon. Like I

59:46SPEAKERdidn't even get the sense that he had played Panzer Dragoon at this point.

59:49SPEAKERI don't. So as somebody who experienced a Saturn entirely through marketing material,

59:54SPEAKERI really was interested in Panzer Dragoon, but I didn't know anybody who had a Saturn

59:59SPEAKERand as a result, never played Panzer Dragoon until very recently.

1:00:03SPEAKEROh, you know what you might be right about. So the PlayStation, I just finally looked

1:00:08SPEAKERthe date up 9th of September, 95. So like days after this episode aired is when the

1:00:12SPEAKERPlayStation officially came out in the U S so like, unless that was an import Japanese

1:00:16SPEAKERversion, he very likely got that from Sony directly. If I had to guess.

1:00:23SPEAKERMy guess is that that was hot and they will, the producer was like, we got to get some,

1:00:27SPEAKERwe got to get some console stuff in here for the kids. We'll put it at the very end. So

1:00:29SPEAKERthey watched the whole rest of the show. We've got to reach that public television viewing

1:00:33SPEAKERchild audience out there. Exactly. I mean, look, kids, children love public

1:00:38SPEAKERtelevision, Brad, but this show, this show was always on on like Saturday morning at

1:00:42SPEAKERlike nine o'clock. So it was counter-programmed against cartoons here.

1:00:44SPEAKERYou might catch. Yeah. I had a couple of, at one point he was like, he was like, if

1:00:52SPEAKERyou're trying to decide between these consoles, the hardware seems about the same on both

1:00:55SPEAKERsides. I forget how we put it, but like, no, no, Stuart. No, look, the Sega Saturn had

1:01:01SPEAKERa proud and powerful lineage in history. It was basically a 32 X jammed into the, anyway,

1:01:08SPEAKERit was two 32 X's taped together with CD-ROM. Yeah. That sounds great. Great 2d games on

1:01:13SPEAKERthere. What a burn, but, and also that's where his dad energy really came in, in this episode,

1:01:19SPEAKERbecause he's like, it's like, oh, they seem about comparable. The bigger question you

1:01:22SPEAKERmight be asking is, do you, if you have a PC, do you need a video game player at all?

1:01:26SPEAKERAnd then he goes into like, he goes into the whole spiel of like, oh, you buy your computer

1:01:31SPEAKERgame. You don't have enough memory. You don't have enough video. You don't have enough hard

1:01:34SPEAKERdrive. And then he's like, he's like, you know, these, these game machines are expensive,

1:01:42SPEAKERbut just getting the game and putting it in and playing is worth a lot, like extremely

1:01:46SPEAKERnineties dad kind of stuff.

1:01:48SPEAKERLook, if you want to, if your kids want the video, them video games and you don't want

1:01:53SPEAKERto be hassled, here you go. Get yourself a Saturn. Yeah. I, I have to say, I do remember

1:02:02SPEAKERwhen like the N64 came out later, later the next year, I guess that was about a year after

1:02:07SPEAKERthis. I was like, oh man, I can just play games and I don't have to make a boot disc

1:02:12SPEAKERfor every game. That'll be, that's cool. Fair. Yeah. It is a valid, it's a valid point. Yeah.

1:02:19SPEAKERThings are a little bit better these days. But I think that's the end of the episode

1:02:24SPEAKERand that's probably the end of our episode too. As always this is the part of the show

1:02:30SPEAKERwhere we remind you that Brad and Will made a tech pod is a 100% listener supported show.

1:02:34SPEAKERThank you listeners. I can verify that is the case. Also, I can say thank you listeners.

1:02:40SPEAKERThank you listeners. I'm, Patreon is taking a really long time to load right now. So I'm

1:02:44SPEAKERgoing to have to fill. I don't have a title for this episode. I've got a super risky is

1:02:49SPEAKERthe best thing I've come up with so far. And we were really running out of time to generate

1:02:53SPEAKERsomething better.

1:02:54SPEAKERIt's not terrible. You want me to say something bad? Yes. Say something. Now's now's your

1:03:00SPEAKERchance. Say something controversial. Is this your network moment? I'm mad as hell. Honestly,

1:03:08SPEAKERI wish people would stop tweeting at me. That that's my, that's my, please stop tweeting

1:03:13SPEAKERat me. That's not, I don't think that's a, please. That's not going to work. No. Okay.

1:03:19SPEAKERBut yeah, we, we, we appreciate the support from all of our patrons. And if you would

1:03:24SPEAKERlike to support the show, you can go to patreon.com/techpod. Again, that's patreon.com/techpod where you

1:03:31SPEAKERcan pay for as little two bucks a month, you can get access to the fabulous tech pod discord,

1:03:36SPEAKERwhich is filled with like 3000 beautiful nerds who I guarantee you share some interests with

1:03:42SPEAKERyou, no matter how esoteric your interests are. We also need to thank our executive producer

1:03:50SPEAKERto your patrons, including Chris, including paddle Creek games, makers of fractured veil,

1:03:55SPEAKERAndrew Slosky, bunny Thorpe, Octo crimes, wedge. Brad shook his head on that one. Not

1:04:02SPEAKERwedge. The bunny Thorpe. It's just, it's amusing. It's good. You never know what you're going

1:04:07SPEAKERto get. No, it's always a surprise. And it's always hard to say. So I like both of those

1:04:11SPEAKERthings. Jacob chapel. Thank you, Jacob. Joel Krauska, eight Oh two dot 11 B Twinkie. That

1:04:18SPEAKERsounds pretty good too. Not bad. David Allen and James Cameron. Thank you all so much about

1:04:22SPEAKERhow about eight Oh two dot 11 T Oh, no, I'm more of that eight Oh two 11 ax life now.

1:04:30SPEAKERThat's fair. We, as always, we'll be back next week with another episode of the tech

1:04:36SPEAKERpod. In the meantime, you should go listen to the last episode of the foster. It was

1:04:41SPEAKERvery good. Yeah. We talked to Brian, Chris Brown of project North star, which is a fascinating

1:04:46SPEAKERconversation. I didn't expect it to go in some of the directions that went in. Somebody

1:04:50SPEAKERpointed this out after the episode was posted, but the fact that I, we had an interview with

1:04:55SPEAKERChris Brown, a guy named Chris Brown the week after the show, the incident is, is a weird

1:05:02SPEAKERcoincidence and was completely accidental. I don't think we knew his name. Middle name

1:05:06SPEAKERwas Chris. Uh, before we did the show, but anyway, project North star is it's an open

1:05:10SPEAKERsource augmented reality headset that you can build yourself theoretically. It was a,

1:05:16SPEAKERit was a fun talk. Some interesting stuff in there for sure. Yeah. And uh, we'll be

1:05:20SPEAKERback next week. Thanks for listening. Everybody have a good week.