00:00SPEAKERso should we just get into it you want to tell you want you want to complain about the thing that
00:03SPEAKERis not a thing worth complaining about it's i'm going to minimize your complaint before you have
00:06SPEAKERa chance to make it that's how upset i am about this it's wait you're upset about my upsetness
00:11SPEAKERyes like meta upset look i finally understand all those people that are angry about the console that
00:17SPEAKERthey don't have being having a game that's nice because they can't have the nice thing
00:21SPEAKERor something i don't know but i'm irrationally angry about this brad it's so hideous it's awful
00:28SPEAKERwhy did they they made the perfect laptop and then they ruined it okay i'm being a bit flip as
00:34SPEAKERi often am i think people people take me at my word a little too much this isn't you being flip
00:39SPEAKERi know how you feel about the notch listen just just so you know like a lot of the people you
00:44SPEAKERlisten to on the internet are often playing an exaggerated character of themselves but not in
00:48SPEAKERthis case but god damn look i mean i i genuinely revile the notch i don't actually think that they
00:54SPEAKERruined the laptop with it but i kind of do just to be clear how old is the phone that you're carrying
00:58SPEAKERnow it's not dude it's an iphone 8 it's like three years old five years old the iphone no there's no
01:05SPEAKERway the iphone 8 is that old 8 10 10 s phone 8 11 17 okay it's four years old four years is perfectly
01:13SPEAKERacceptable time to have a phone man that is a that is an apropos that's yeah okay fair it's fine it's
01:18SPEAKERfine like the battery i think the health of the battery is at 94 wow that's really good my my
01:24SPEAKERiphone 10s battery from sitting on the charger uh every day was not at 90 when i got rid of it last
01:30SPEAKERday look i am i am a conscientious charger you're a smart smarter man than me okay but like so the
01:36SPEAKERhere's the thing on the phone having used a notch phone since like 2017 i will assure you you will
01:46SPEAKERstop noticing it within about five minutes of actually using the device i get it on the phone
01:50SPEAKERi understand the argument like the the little notches up there a little little horns what do
01:54SPEAKERyou want to call them the the extended screen real estate like they're putting useful information in
01:58SPEAKERthere it's not really it's like battery network wi-fi a signal yes right on the phone my objection
02:05SPEAKERis purely aesthetic okay it just looks bad it's just a it is a shitty compromise but i get that
02:11SPEAKERit's not really affecting usability i mean it seems like the developers are gonna have the choice of
02:16SPEAKERdoing that kind of like if you want to do a full like you can do a full screen app that does below
02:21SPEAKERthe notch is what it sounds like yes but you have to go to full screen for that which is a whole
02:25SPEAKERseparate desktop and everything in mac os like it's not on see when i was a regular mac os user
02:30SPEAKERthough i regularly used full screen oh i did too it has its uses for sure like it's actually a nice
02:35SPEAKERit's a nice way to isolate things but it's not for everything it's not not all apps are gonna work
02:39SPEAKERthat way i suspect i mean you tell me there has got to be a third-party ui hack solution to that
02:45SPEAKERthing on day two right it won't be on day two but it'll be soon like i actually people on our
02:50SPEAKERdiscord we're talking about a thing called bartender yeah which is which does exactly
02:54SPEAKERthis sort of thing like they don't like i saw the author out there saying like i haven't had a chance
02:58SPEAKERto test a notch laptop yet but i'll mess around with it but that is a 15 app that does exactly
03:03SPEAKERwhat you think it lets you edit and control the the menu bar the way you want like a lot of that
03:08SPEAKERstuff in os 10 because of the the bsd roots is more accessible than it would be in something
03:14SPEAKERlike windows and and like the janky shell scripts are way less janky on os 10 from my experience
03:19SPEAKERyou still see uh you still see references to like next step extensions yeah floating UI extensions
03:25SPEAKERall over the place NS whatever but shout out to those new macbooks because it looks like
03:30SPEAKERall of the problems with the last five years worth of macbooks were solved in one day that's why the
03:34SPEAKERnotch hurts because like otherwise like i was serious when i said they made the perfect laptop
03:38SPEAKERlike they fixed everything they got rid of the menu bar they brought all the ports back they
03:42SPEAKERbrought magsafe back you need to love the notch man the notch is great everything else about that
03:46SPEAKERlaptop is kind of mind-blowing like how perfect it is i mean i look i gotta say the bringing magsafe
03:53SPEAKERback is a little bit shitty because like the magsafe okay so one thing that's nice is the
03:57SPEAKERmagsafe cable is a usb-c on one end and a magsafe on the other which is good or magsafe 3 whatever
04:02SPEAKERit is the bat so so that like when you romp around your us your get the the power brick end of the
04:09SPEAKERcable it's not going to get jacked up and fray like every macbook power cord ever for like the
04:14SPEAKERlast 15 years oh you gotta you gotta you gotta make sure there's no tension on that thing when
04:18SPEAKERyou wind look we did it we did always leave some slack when you wind we did a video we did it we
04:24SPEAKERdid a psa we did a right way to do this the wrong way to do this on a on a did an edit on that that
04:28SPEAKERwas very fabulous and it was like 1940s radio announcer voice nice um you gotta be a conscientious
04:34SPEAKERwinder as well you do a pigtail always do a pigtail yeah um but everything else about that
04:39SPEAKERlaptop seems like okay so that cable is 99 dollars i believe the cable the usb-c to magsafe cable is
04:46SPEAKER99 bucks without a brick without a charger what and then the brick maybe maybe i have it backwards
04:52SPEAKERmaybe it's 79 and 99 it's really an expensive charger that's hmm that's careful that's something
04:57SPEAKERbut i don't know if you saw that on the same day this is the company that on the same day also
05:00SPEAKERdebuted a 20 microfiber cloth so i think we know who we're dealing with here well look yeah it's
05:07SPEAKERthe problem the problem with magsafe like i don't understand why they didn't just do usb-c on both
05:12SPEAKERends because that's the right choice except i think usb-c doesn't go as high as the magsafe
05:16SPEAKERdoes in this case because it's like 149 watts or something uh like i i don't know that i am pro
05:24SPEAKERnon-standard charging specs when it comes to apple and their overpriced cables
05:29SPEAKERbecause like the nice thing about a usb-c cable is that at some point onker or somebody will make one
05:34SPEAKERthe bad thing about a usb-c to see the bad thing about a usb-c to magsafe is that it's gonna
05:40SPEAKERlike it'll take a long time because they're gonna have to license it and there'll be there'll be a
05:44SPEAKERprocess anyway minor complaints like the keyboard seems like it's fixed they got rid of the stupid
05:48SPEAKERtouch bar it has a sd card slot it has an hdmi out port it seems to maybe have a handful of
05:56SPEAKERports it could use more i would say yeah was it one one usb-c on each side or i think those are
06:01SPEAKERthunderbolt four usb-c ports yeah but it doesn't have usb-a's at all no which is an unfortunate
06:06SPEAKERchoice but like the sd card reader i guess is good i don't know i don't i haven't used an sd
06:10SPEAKERcard reader a really long time now it does not sound to be a 2.1 hdmi port sadly but look man
06:17SPEAKERwhat do you what who the only thing you need to hdmi 2.1 for is 8k displays and gamers who want
06:23SPEAKERhigh refresh rates so neither of those are happening on a macbook whatever they already
06:27SPEAKERbroke my heart as well as the top of the screen so everything else is kind of whatever okay look
06:32SPEAKERyou you're still burned from the other the notch that we don't talk about anymore and i think
06:38SPEAKERyou're letting those feelings bleed through into this notch brad you're gonna bring that kind of
06:42SPEAKERnotch into it this podcast is definitely a notch free zone
07:12SPEAKERso welcome to brad and will made a tech pod i'm will hi i'm brad hello hi hello hi hello
07:21SPEAKERgreetings it's a podcast it is it's us it is it is the podcast featuring us um so i think last
07:30SPEAKERweek i talked a little bit about this yes but my daughter had to come home from school school early
07:35SPEAKERand as a result she had to go to the principal's office and use the phone there to call us and be
07:39SPEAKERlike hey can you come pick me up and she when she picked up the phone it was like a normal office
07:47SPEAKERphone like cords and buttons and all that and it was the first time she'd ever used a phone that
07:51SPEAKERhad a wire on it she's almost nine cue feeling incredibly ancient go on i yeah like it was a
08:01SPEAKERmoment where i faced my own mortality yes maybe maybe we won't get into that aspect of this topic
08:06SPEAKERso much we'll stick to the tech but go on but yeah it made me think about the things that were
08:12SPEAKERpart of like day-to-day regular life during my youth when i was her age and and on like when i
08:20SPEAKERwas her age it was 1984 83 or 84 we lived in a in a house in the middle of a cornfield and like we
08:29SPEAKERhad i think probably two phones there was like a phone in the kitchen there was a phone in my
08:33SPEAKERparents bedroom on the nightstand in case there was an emergency we had a television we didn't
08:37SPEAKERhave satellite or their cable didn't come to my parents for another 15-20 years at that point
08:42SPEAKERso we had like literally three channels and in the morning before the sun was up you could get
08:47SPEAKERpbs from sneedville because the radio would go further if the sun wasn't oh wow blasting the
08:52SPEAKERionosphere or something i don't know interfering with the radio wave somehow yeah so like there
08:58SPEAKERwasn't that was before we got a ti the ti like the highest people we may not we probably had a
09:04SPEAKERvcr at that point but maybe not i don't remember i feel like we would occasionally borrow like we
09:08SPEAKERwent on a vacation or something we'd borrow somebody's camcorder or rent a camcorder from
09:11SPEAKERsomebody and like that was the extent there was no there wasn't like i had a merlin do you remember
09:18SPEAKERmerlin no oh merlin was like a little electronic game that it looked like it looked like a phone
09:24SPEAKERactually it was like three red paints i have it in the garage i'll grab it out and take a picture
09:28SPEAKERfor show notes but it was like it had nine leds on it or 12 leds on it and you could play a bunch
09:35SPEAKERof games that were like tic-tac-toe or like like color shifting games yeah i'm looking at a picture
09:40SPEAKERright now this first of all this is the most 70s looking piece of consumer tech i may have ever
09:44SPEAKERseen oh yeah yeah and actually it also it kind of looks like a prop from the original star trek
09:51SPEAKERlike look i definitely was used as a communicator like a space phone sure in playtime but but like
09:57SPEAKERalso it doesn't have integrated circuits it's all like just smart electronics under the thing that
10:03SPEAKERmakes it work in specific ways and you like move a switch to put it in different modes it's like
10:06SPEAKERyou could recreate it on a breadboard is what you're saying yeah probably probably you could
10:11SPEAKERdefinitely make it work on the mister i know so somebody should definitely do a merlin core for
10:15SPEAKERthe mister anyway uh so yeah like that's kind of that's kind of the gist of the episode or that was
10:20SPEAKERthe impetus was your your daughter's entertaining encounter with the corded phone right was just
10:24SPEAKERsort of like hey let's think of some stuff that is has been phased out or is on the verge of being
10:28SPEAKERphased out things that the coming generations will just have no experience of well so i asked
10:32SPEAKERthe receptionist at the at the school how often that happens she's like oh it's every week at
10:38SPEAKERleast that i have to teach something how to use a phone every every week another child has the
10:42SPEAKERhorrifying experience of being tethered to the phone line who has landlines yeah that's our age
10:48SPEAKERnobody yeah i mean still have a landline that's one of the things that i wrote on this bullet
10:52SPEAKERlist i don't know if we want to get right into that part but like how many people's even people
10:56SPEAKERthat have a quote-unquote landline these days how many of them are actual electrical phone
11:01SPEAKERlines versus just being a voice over ip situation so the one in our house i had we had a we when we
11:08SPEAKERmoved in this house we had a phone line that came in it was hooked up as a dsl backup for a little
11:14SPEAKERbit because like you for a while you could get from at&t for like 10 bucks a month a dsl line
11:19SPEAKERand that was real low speed but we didn't have cell service here that was particularly good so
11:23SPEAKERwe did that and then after that it was like it it was blocking taking the gutters off so i just cut
11:31SPEAKERthe wire wow it's very unceremonious but okay goodbye history goodbye history of of of like
11:38SPEAKERyou know pre-internet telephony just snip i literally cut the cord yes um but yeah it's it's
11:46SPEAKERlike we had it's funny one of the toys she played with there's a toy our last wired phone for a long
11:52SPEAKERday like once she was old enough that we weren't pretty sure she wasn't going to choke herself to
11:55SPEAKERdeath with the cord she had the one that was hanging on the wall in the kitchen in our last
11:59SPEAKERapartment and and uh and like that was the thing that she played with but i don't think she realized
12:04SPEAKERit was a phone that's like i feel like that's one of the things you read about a lot the where this
12:10SPEAKERissue manifests a lot is like people seeing their children pantomime certain actions and realizing
12:14SPEAKERhow the child's perception of these things has changed in the last 30 40 years like oh yeah well
12:20SPEAKERit's i mean it's everybody who has a young kid that has an ipad or a tablet of some kind has
12:25SPEAKERhad the moment where they walk up to the tv and they're trying to touch screen the tv or like a
12:30SPEAKERscreen at a mall or at a airport or something right um you what was the thing you had the the
12:38SPEAKERpeople taking pictures is another one yes like that that's kind of the one i had in mind was like
12:43SPEAKERwhat is a point and shoot camera to anybody under the age of like 10 these days right it's just a
12:47SPEAKERphone like there is no such thing as i'm gonna go get my camera and take pictures of stuff
12:52SPEAKERyeah the pantomime that little kids do for taking a picture is holding up the phone and then touching
12:57SPEAKERthe touch screen to take the shutter not like making a rectangle with your with your index and
13:03SPEAKERthumb and pushing down on the right index and crucially holding it up to your face right in
13:07SPEAKERfront of your eye where you look through the viewfinder right like that what is that to
13:11SPEAKERanybody that isn't ancient and crusty at this point only a sociopath would do that um well
13:16SPEAKERyou know what though like my daughter so i have a gopro that i used to use as a stream
13:20SPEAKERcamera and we took it when we were on in the desert a few months ago and uh like would take
13:26SPEAKERpictures in the pool and stuff like that and she immediately got that she knew what was going on
13:29SPEAKERwith that so maybe that one's not all the way out yet yeah like like but back to the the phone line
13:34SPEAKERthing before we move on like i mean i guess most residential locations still have a phone line
13:40SPEAKERwired in you can get it for sure if you want like is that an option though like i don't know because
13:44SPEAKERi've never like like you said who would get a landline in this day and age but like if i called
13:49SPEAKERup whatever our local phone company is which i don't even know who that would be at and t i guess
13:54SPEAKERit would be at and t if i wanted a real phone right but like would they even connect me through
13:58SPEAKERthe electrical phone line or would they try to give me some void situation i believe that if
14:03SPEAKERyou get a phone from at and t you either get an iphone or you get a VoIP line that's hooked up to
14:09SPEAKERyour like my router has phone jacks my fiber router has phone jacks that i could plug into
14:15SPEAKERthe wall yeah like my my house phone yes my isp also offers that in fact it's built into the the
14:21SPEAKERplan but so like can you because you know the traditionally the nice thing about the phone
14:25SPEAKERlines is that if your residential power is out you can still make calls you know but but is that even
14:30SPEAKERnecessary anymore i don't know oh so they have big batteries in them so like my VoIP line has a big
14:35SPEAKERlead acid battery in the bottom of the router oh wow that will power the internal pots and the
14:41SPEAKERrouter for a few hours while it powers out okay um i don't think it lasts particularly long the
14:48SPEAKERyeah i i wonder how much i wonder how much of the country has that stuff gone away now i feel like
14:52SPEAKERi bet if we wanted copper lines i bet i couldn't get a copper line to my house right now well
14:58SPEAKERespecially because you cut i mean there's some heavy lifting involved well i really i remember
15:06SPEAKERwhy i cut it i cut it because i had we switched to VoIP when we first moved here so we had the pots
15:12SPEAKERline originally and we switched we switched to VoIP maybe the last apartment and i wanted to plug the
15:18SPEAKERVoIP modem into the walls in the house and have it just work in order to make that work i had to
15:22SPEAKERkill the carrier signal from the outside world or else it would cause real weird problems so i just
15:27SPEAKERyou know just cut it off the wire it's like a vestigial limb it's just gone yeah sorry appendix
15:33SPEAKERyeah uh so let's i mean let's start let's start with phones yeah so we're gonna go through some
15:37SPEAKERstuff we're gonna talk about a little bit i would love undoubtedly we're gonna miss things yeah
15:42SPEAKERit's an this is an infinite topic offer for sure for sure um so like
15:50SPEAKERtouch tone phones don't exist anymore no for me no and like i'll just say right now like
15:56SPEAKERin part of my mind somewhere touch down touch tone is still the new version of phones you know
16:00SPEAKERlike the original rotary is the old one touch tone is the modern one but even touch tone is
16:05SPEAKERancient and deprecated did you i don't think we ever had a rotary phone when i was a kid my
16:09SPEAKERparents were pretty technological and got i got touch tones i want to say maybe my grandparents
16:14SPEAKERhad one when i was very young we definitely had some digital some touch tone phones that
16:19SPEAKERwould make the rotary sounds remember that you could like switch it and it would it would go
16:26SPEAKERwait did it still look like a rotary phone no it was it had buttons but the but it had
16:32SPEAKERlike a gen a signal generator sound generator there this was a touch tone so this was purely
16:36SPEAKERaudio skeuomorphism uh-huh just to make people feel more comfortable no i think it was in case
16:40SPEAKERyour local service didn't support touch oh oh it was actually like compliant with whatever needed
16:45SPEAKERto be heard on the other end yeah like because the way the phone system worked was it would make the
16:49SPEAKERsounds and the sounds triggered the switches on the other end right right right and the rotary
16:53SPEAKERswitches were one sound and the touch tones was a different sound okay and that that was
16:57SPEAKERall the basis of the freaking movement right like you could yeah the freaking movement was
17:02SPEAKERlike if you could fake the like one of the things you could do was record the sounds that the phone
17:06SPEAKERthe payphone made in this speaker they stopped doing this almost immediately but if you recorded
17:10SPEAKERthe sounds that the payphone made in the speaker when the coin coin thing tripped then you could
17:16SPEAKERjust play it back in the microphone you get free phone calls right so if you had like a little
17:19SPEAKERvoice recorder or something you could do that um yeah so touch tone touch like rotary touch
17:23SPEAKERtone was a big thing the next big one for me was cordless cordless was a huge deal like i don't i
17:29SPEAKERdon't like when i went to college everybody had cordless phones because the like the dorm phone
17:36SPEAKERplug in my in my like two room four person dorm was all the way at the front door of the place
17:44SPEAKERand you wanted to sit on the couch or lay in bed and talk on the phone
17:47SPEAKERand because like i think i liked talking on the phone then which is a weird concept to me now
17:52SPEAKERyeah i mean i did too this was kind of high school era is when cordless phone started proliferating
17:56SPEAKERfor me but like that was kind of how you talk to your friends back then oh yeah because you
18:00SPEAKERcould take it to the bedroom right right but also how else were you going to talk to them remotely
18:04SPEAKERyou know it's like well we would do like when i was talking to friends in middle school we had
18:10SPEAKERwe only had the the kitchen phone so we had to stand in the kitchen and it had like a long
18:14SPEAKERcourse you could walk around the corner into the living room okay kind of sit down on the floor
18:18SPEAKERbut it wouldn't like make a chair sure um this is funny the cordless ones were really great on the
18:24SPEAKERfarm because it meant that we could like like we could be out working in the yard and bring the
18:29SPEAKERcordless phone out on the front stoop and make it really loud and hear it in time to run and
18:34SPEAKERmiss the phone call sure and then not have any idea of called or any way to call them back could
18:38SPEAKERyou just have to call again could you could you star 69 at that point or was that was that not a
18:42SPEAKERthing i'm we i have never starred 69 because it cost money did it really we were not allowed to
18:48SPEAKERdo things that cost money i didn't i mean i wasn't either trust me i mean we i lived in a house where
18:55SPEAKERwe lived in the south and you know what southern summers are like and yet like the air conditioning
18:59SPEAKERwas very strictly regulated around the house let's say we didn't have air conditioning until i was a
19:05SPEAKERjunior in high school i think wow yeah it was hot in the summer we had it we just didn't use it
19:11SPEAKERenough for my taste anyway ice maker um and that was good enough by god we also had a basement so
19:17SPEAKERyou just got on the basement when it's really hot yes um yeah i did i never knew that star 69 cost
19:22SPEAKERmoney i look it's not that it costs money it's that it might have cost money if i'm being real
19:28SPEAKERlet's just play it very safe yeah it's like mom and dad didn't know and if they didn't know then
19:32SPEAKERthat was a no-go strictly that 49 cents shows up on the monthly phone bill as hell to pay so let's
19:37SPEAKERjust not risk it we i think i've told this story on the podcast before but like when i was when i
19:42SPEAKERwas trying to talk to people after we were supposed to be off the phone by 8 30 or 9 usually and i
19:48SPEAKERfigured out that if you picked up the phone and dial like if you scheduled a time that somebody
19:52SPEAKERwas going to call you you could pick up the phone call the time number and so you'd be on the phone
19:57SPEAKERto the time number once call waiting came online do you remember call waiting where you can get a
20:01SPEAKERcall and then you could switch to the other call yes so you'd be you'd be on the phone to the time
20:05SPEAKERnumber at 10 o'clock on the dot you'd have to synchronize watches beforehand so you'd get it
20:11SPEAKERexactly right okay and then you'd just beep over when the call came through so the phone wouldn't
20:15SPEAKERring in the house that's devious yeah aren't you aren't you technically monopolizing the circuit to
20:20SPEAKERthat time number the entire time you're on i think they probably had multiple people that could call
20:24SPEAKERit once but like it kicks you off after like 30 seconds so or a minute right because you you wait
20:29SPEAKERuntil the next time it says at the sound of the third tone it will be 10 0 2 pm that is that is
20:36SPEAKERsome extreme teenage ingenuity i'm going to say uh so yeah cordless phones this is one i didn't
20:42SPEAKERknow about so when i was a kid and went to my grandparents house their phones were wired like
20:48SPEAKERthe wire came out of the wall and went into the phone okay like in order to change not like a
20:53SPEAKERmodular cord that plugged into a little box like there was not an rj45 or rj11 style cord at their
21:00SPEAKERhouse like if if they wanted to get a new phone if their phone broke the phone company person came
21:04SPEAKERout he unscrewed the bottom of the phone unscrewed four wires from inside the phone and then would
21:10SPEAKERput a new phone onto those four wires and close it back up so a true hard line it was a hard line
21:15SPEAKERand it was a phone that was probably leased by bell wow would be my guess okay my parents didn't
21:24SPEAKERtruck in that they didn't take the least phone because it was after it was a little bit
21:26SPEAKERderegulated you can put your own hardware on their network so we had rj11 cables but in between the
21:33SPEAKERhard wire time and the rj11 time there were apparently a bunch of weird proprietary cables
21:38SPEAKERaround the country there were some that were just like four they look like pins they're like inch
21:43SPEAKERlong pins that stick out of the wall and you jam those in they seem to be a little bit keyed but
21:49SPEAKERthe rj11 and rj45 came online like between when i was a youth i'm sitting here looking at 475 i'm
21:56SPEAKERlooking at the two uh one is eight pin and one is four pin yeah i'm trying to figure out what
22:01SPEAKERthe difference is i i started to say something i don't want to sound ignorant i thought isn't rj45
22:06SPEAKERalso ethernet rj45 is ethernet it is right okay that's what i thought so wait could they both be
22:12SPEAKERused for phones so uh the standard for phone analog phone line the wire standard is different
22:21SPEAKERrj45 has to use a cat5 or later uh cable because the way the twisted pairs inside the thing are
22:27SPEAKERwired matters okay because it reduces interference uh the rj the cables that you use with rj11 which
22:33SPEAKERwas um i can't i can't remember is not as it's not twisted the same way so uh but yeah there were a
22:41SPEAKERlot of weird telephone connectors back in the day um and like my other grandparents had those the
22:48SPEAKERbig square ones that was weird the rj11 stuff took off really fast though once the bells were broken
22:53SPEAKERup in the 80s then all of a sudden everybody had rj11 jacks all through their houses now everybody's
22:58SPEAKERmaking a phone yeah exactly what else we got you want a phone that looks like garfield you can have
23:04SPEAKERthat only off the coast of france wait have you seen that story oh wow i did i didn't know that
23:11SPEAKERwas a well-known story that's a famous story is it is it famous yeah the container the container
23:15SPEAKERthat yes the direct container ship that is continuing to wash garfield phones up on the
23:20SPEAKERshore to this day yes it's like the most ghastly oil spill in history yeah yeah it's it's it's
23:26SPEAKERthe garfield phones seem like they'd be funny but they're not it turns out hey look too much garfield
23:31SPEAKERstopped being funny very quickly i always wanted one of those football phones you got for signing
23:36SPEAKERup sports i didn't want sports illustrated yeah i kind of i didn't want sports illustrated i also
23:41SPEAKERdidn't give a shit about football but for some reason i always thought that football phone was
23:44SPEAKERcool i never had a novelty shaped phone i don't think i did not either yeah i did have one in the
23:48SPEAKER70s that was my parents from the 60s early 70s that was like it was like a big round kind of
23:56SPEAKERsquarey round base with the handset that just came straight up and on the bottom was the rotary stuff
24:02SPEAKERand there was a big red button in the middle it was a very good clicky button uh maybe maybe
24:08SPEAKERhe's the beginning of my my feelings toward mechanical switches but um and i just feel good
24:13SPEAKERyeah i wonder i bet they still have my guess is my mom still has that phone but i don't know for sure
24:18SPEAKERuh did you have a party line no is that something else that cost extra because extra no if so no no
24:26SPEAKERparty lines were cheaper oh so a party line happened if you lived in the country and like
24:30SPEAKERthey had one circuit for like five or ten houses oh okay this is completely the opposite of what
24:35SPEAKERi thought this was this is not just a way to get a bunch of people on the phone at the same time
24:39SPEAKERoh no this isn't this isn't like this isn't an ad that would be in south park after 11 call
24:45SPEAKERfive six seven sex time for your party line needs no but this wasn't that uh this was this was uh
24:53SPEAKERone pair of wires coming out to the end of a long rural street and uh everybody's house would be
24:58SPEAKERwired into the same circuit so if you wanted to talk to the smiths or the johnson's or the browns
25:02SPEAKERor the or the stevens's you'd call br549 and then the phone would ring at everybody's house and you'd
25:09SPEAKERall pick up and the person would announce who they were calling for that is so weird
25:14SPEAKERand then everyone else would hang up and could if theoretically if they all started talking could
25:17SPEAKERthey they could all be heard everybody can talk like like the the the un the the side of this is
25:25SPEAKERif you put a ring or if you put a thing that generated a ring signal on your line you could
25:29SPEAKERmake everybody else's phones ring too so they could use it as like an intercom between houses
25:34SPEAKERoh wow that's wild is that is that purely just an infrastructural thing of the phone company
25:39SPEAKERdoesn't want to run lines individual lines to each of these houses so this is what you're stuck with
25:43SPEAKERwell it's two it's both sides they they didn't have you know that's when the the switches were
25:48SPEAKERstill manual so uh you know if you wanted to connect if you ever watched uh andy griffith you
25:55SPEAKERwould call and talk to mabel the operator where you wanted to talk to somebody and she would
25:58SPEAKERunplug the wire from from his thing and patch it into the one that she that he wanted he wanted to
26:03SPEAKERtalk to so yeah it was a little bit of both but they definitely only ran one wire out to the
26:07SPEAKERto the to the country sure a lot of times uh people would do that in like vacation communities
26:13SPEAKERtoo i think once upon a time we rented a house in florida and in like in like uh winter haven
26:19SPEAKERor one of those places and all there were all these little bungalows and they were all on one
26:24SPEAKERparty line so that's wild it's it's right that's chaotic that is i don't know if there's something
26:31SPEAKERsomething a little about it you could just listen in on everybody else's calls right right like wait
26:37SPEAKERjust at any moment could you just pick up the receiver and just hear what was being discussed
26:40SPEAKERyeah if you picked up the phone and somebody else was talking then you would you would hear
26:43SPEAKERthe you're what everybody else was saying i don't like that very much at all look we didn't have as
26:48SPEAKERmuch privacy back then that's when if you like if you went to harvard then they just took naked
26:52SPEAKERpictures of you and put them in a big book so yeah yeah privacy wasn't a real thing in the 50s it
27:00SPEAKERturns out in 40s i suppose not speaking of books yeah you wrote you wrote a little black book down
27:05SPEAKERon this list and also rolodex did you ever rolodex i don't i might have had an empty one i might have
27:12SPEAKERlike i might have straddled the line where i had one but i never actually put anything in it because
27:15SPEAKERwho needs it i i had a contact i had like an address book in college that it wasn't like a
27:21SPEAKERlittle black book but i had an address book that had like the people i talked to phone numbers yeah
27:25SPEAKERi man i don't i don't know how i managed that stuff actually i think i might have just memorized
27:29SPEAKERmy friend's phone numbers well so one of the big one of the big selling points for like the early
27:34SPEAKERpda's like the palm palm two and three and all those was that you could put all of that stuff
27:39SPEAKERinto this thing that was way bigger than the little black book that you just put in your back
27:42SPEAKERpocket sure and also it needed batteries that would wear out and uh but it could do the dialing
27:48SPEAKERfor you sometimes okay good that's honestly like what what we're talking about here having to
27:54SPEAKERremember people's phone numbers like is probably top of the list for me now that i think about it
27:59SPEAKERremember having to remember people's phone numbers like what is what is your experience of knowing a
28:03SPEAKERphone number these days like i can't even remember the last time i looked at one i know my wife's
28:08SPEAKERphone number because it's one digit off mine because we both got cell phones at the same
28:12SPEAKERtime when we moved to california that is incredibly smart um well wait do they do they really dull
28:17SPEAKERnumbers out in order like that it was a new exchange so it was doled out sequentially yeah
28:21SPEAKERwow that's amazing i i had well here's a secret if you ask when you get a new phone number you
28:27SPEAKERcan ask for a specific number oh some phone companies charge you more for like good ones
28:32SPEAKERwith zeros and stuff yeah but like my home my old home number had two zeros at the end just because
28:38SPEAKERi i like kept hitting the button until i got the phone number i wanted interesting um why are zeros
28:44SPEAKERso desirable if you're so i guess i guess it's a i'm not going to give anything away here it's
28:49SPEAKERokay for me to say that my cell number has three zeros sequentially in it yeah and you're not the
28:54SPEAKERfirst person to bring up the zero thing and specifically like say to me like oh that's
28:59SPEAKERawesome you have three zeros in your phone number like i never got why that's such a big deal
29:03SPEAKERwell so zero was bad in rotary days right because it took the longest to dial yeah um but i don't i
29:10SPEAKERlike i just think like i think numbers i think repetition is nice because it's easier to remember
29:15SPEAKERthe number right yes like like i mean the town that i grew up in had i think three phone exchanges
29:22SPEAKERso it was like 6 1 5 7 6 4 8 7 8 9 9 6 8 maybe i can't remember is that what you mean by exchange
29:29SPEAKERthe prefix the three digit prefix there's the area code which is the one that indicates the big area
29:34SPEAKERbut the exchange is the yeah is the is the three digits okay um and my understanding is that that's
29:40SPEAKERa result of the like the the exchange used to in the olden times was who i could be completely
29:46SPEAKERwrong on this is something this is something my father told me so who knows things my father told
29:50SPEAKERme the podcast oh god uh the i didn't expect to talk about this where i would have read about it
29:55SPEAKERbut the the exchange i think is the we used to be like what the opera like before they had exchanges
30:02SPEAKERyou would call like bristol br 549 it's also a famous song and uh you would plug it then then
30:10SPEAKERlike that br would be the exchange for bristol and then they started adding more exchanges when
30:15SPEAKERthey had the mechanical dialing so you so you're able to more phone numbers were accessible but
30:20SPEAKERbefore that it was it was like gated by the number of operators and like the the hardware is set up
30:25SPEAKERfor the place for you know for the town of course do you do you a do you know when human operators
30:32SPEAKERwere phased out and b did you have any experience of that yourself because i sure didn't well they
30:38SPEAKERhad human operators well into the 90s and 2000s wait really yeah because like you have to call
30:42SPEAKERthem sometimes to place a collect call or to do a like anything unusual call international sometimes
30:48SPEAKERsorry maybe i should be more specific like obviously they had people manning or you know
30:52SPEAKERtaking calls to do certain things i guess what i'm talking about is the more the more hands-on
30:57SPEAKERlike literally pulling plugs out of a switchboard and plugging them into other sockets like surely
31:02SPEAKERsurely that ended way before what you're talking about right so i think that was in the i think
31:07SPEAKERthat peaked so i'm looking at a page that's about the history of telephones okay uh and it seems like
31:16SPEAKERthat peaked in the 40s is what they're saying i was gonna say like that feels like a very old
31:20SPEAKERtiny like my my parents childhoods kind of thing right brad there were 350 000 operators working
31:27SPEAKERin 1940 wow that is an insane number of employees a lot of people who probably were all out of work
31:34SPEAKERonce the technology evolved well i think they weren't allowed i think i think they i think once
31:39SPEAKERthey once they got married they weren't allowed to work there anymore brad but geez uh so it was
31:44SPEAKERthat long ago huh yeah were they wait they were not exclusively female were they like that was
31:50SPEAKERtell me please tell me that was not a policy that they only hired women for that well in the 1800s
31:55SPEAKERit was it was boys young young young men and in the 40s it seems like it was mostly women
32:03SPEAKERso society used to be weird not that it's not still very weird
32:07SPEAKERlook and and troubling in a lot of ways but man if the politics of the telephone is probably
32:12SPEAKERanother like 12 episode arc of the podcast seriously let's get into it i actually not to
32:18SPEAKERnot to write any checks we can't necessarily cash but like talking about the antitrust stuff around
32:23SPEAKERthe phone networks back in the day would be very interesting to me i know i i have no i have no
32:28SPEAKERlike living experience of watching that stuff get broken up but well like like the idea that it was
32:33SPEAKERa closed network and and the the i guess litigation that happened around that because like you didn't
32:40SPEAKERyou couldn't you couldn't disconnect your phone according to the terms of your service agreement
32:46SPEAKERwith with bell prior to like 1965 or whenever that whenever that changed wow so like like the terms
32:53SPEAKERlike the the idea that that somebody could own the network but you could still connect on the edges
32:58SPEAKERof the platform are the foundations of what became internet law like sure right like it's all based
33:04SPEAKERon the idea that yes bell can own the network but you can still connect your they have to allow
33:10SPEAKERequal access to other providers and stuff like that anyway um it looks like they switched to
33:15SPEAKERelectromechanical switching in the 50s which is when you started to be able to dial long distance
33:20SPEAKERon your own the first uh customer dialed long distance call was in 1951 okay does that mean
33:25SPEAKERthat the humans were being taken out of the operation at that point well so humans were
33:29SPEAKERstill necessary for a lot of stuff at that point including like they would help you look up phone
33:33SPEAKERnumbers right uh you could if you were dialing international or someplace that didn't that
33:38SPEAKERdidn't have a supported exchange you'd still have to talk to a human okay um so so they they lingered
33:43SPEAKERlike you could dial i mean i as i as i understand it you could dial zero and get an operator right
33:50SPEAKERup until the point that we switched to digital telephony okay um i actually tried dialing zero
33:54SPEAKERright before this podcast just to see what would happen what happened i just got a recording it
33:58SPEAKERstarted with like a weird code i forget like something something code 15 or something but
34:02SPEAKERthen it proceeded to say if this is an emergency call 911 if you are looking for your party's
34:08SPEAKERnumber call 411 uh i think it maybe gave me one other number to call that i forget if you're
34:14SPEAKERlooking for transit information call 511 it was not especially useful that's it so so and then
34:21SPEAKERthe next step was when they switched to the digital in the 70s which is when the touchstone
34:24SPEAKERstuff came on came on okay okay and and because that transition was slower the electromechanical
34:29SPEAKERhappened fast because it involved not paying people for work um but the digital stuff happened
34:34SPEAKERa little slower which is i guess why we had that time period where you had the the aftermarket
34:39SPEAKERphones that you could flip the switch between the digital or the rotary mode on anyway phones are
34:45SPEAKERweird man phones are weird i was looking uh i don't know what the term is but i was looking for the
34:51SPEAKERi think there's like a list of i don't know if these are touchtone related but the kind of the
34:56SPEAKERmulti-tone codes you would get when you would pick up a line and it would be like oh this is
34:59SPEAKERthe number's been disconnected like yes like i think those didn't those vary by country or by
35:04SPEAKERnetwork i'm sure i think like different countries had different tones for different stuff like that
35:09SPEAKERthat would make sense i was trying to find a kind of repository of all of those but i don't
35:14SPEAKERknow what those are called um it's it's there was a there was that the the list of lost sounds yes
35:23SPEAKERoh that um the one i sent you yeah that you sent me the museum of lost sounds what is that
35:28SPEAKERyeah it's really good it's the save the sound.info it's a good it's a pretty good url yeah but it's
35:35SPEAKERlike it's like everything from like the aol sound to max startup sounds warning sounds teletype
35:43SPEAKERsounds mobbell sounds the euro signal which i'm sure plenty of our listeners are familiar with
35:49SPEAKERbut i'm not uh yep yeah the the oh boy oh that's a good one that's coming through oh that's
35:57SPEAKERintentional okay just thought i'd stick a little bit of the euro signal in there the um they had
36:02SPEAKERa teletype service in france like a minitel was the name like the home computer system that
36:07SPEAKERconnected the phone network and like you could send text messages and stuff to people is my
36:11SPEAKERunderstanding over that wired from your kitchen europe had a lot of interesting stuff they did
36:16SPEAKERcool stuff man um what else what else we got on this we've only talked about phones so far yeah
36:22SPEAKERthis is all phones today i don't know phones i think are i don't know like obviously communication
36:27SPEAKERis just such a universal experience that i feel like that's the that's the go-to example of all
36:31SPEAKERthis stuff right and we talked about cameras in relation to phones because because for kids
36:37SPEAKERphones are just cameras cameras are phones well it's funny though the camera thing on phones
36:41SPEAKERreally like when i started covering smartphones in the early like late 2000s early 2010s like there
36:47SPEAKERwas conversation about whether that was actually going to happen because the cameras were really
36:51SPEAKERbad on phones up until about the iphone 4 right and then and then they started then they got okay
36:59SPEAKERlike if you go back and look at pictures you took with an iphone 4 or 5 now you're gonna be like oh
37:02SPEAKERman this is a shit looking photo but back then it was it was like it was good enough right um
37:07SPEAKERand now we're now ridiculous things are happening with phones on cameras i mean um do you think it's
37:11SPEAKERaccurate to say this is a little bit of a tangent but is it accurate that phones have only become
37:17SPEAKERthe default cameras for most people by dent of apple putting so much r and d into them like i
37:22SPEAKERmean like for years that felt like the flagship new thing on iphones every year was the camera is
37:29SPEAKERbetter and now it's even better and now it's way about you know what i mean like they kept finding
37:33SPEAKERnew ways to make the camera better and better and better but if they hadn't been pushing in that
37:37SPEAKERdirection do you think that they would have just stayed good enough i i mean that's what happened
37:42SPEAKERin the 10 years proceeding so like like pre i have pre iphone smartphones had cameras remember the
37:47SPEAKERfirst iphone didn't have a camera did it not no because they couldn't they because they couldn't
37:51SPEAKERmake one that was not shit or maybe it only did photos it didn't do video i can't remember okay
37:57SPEAKERbut it was it was limited okay um and i should look that up real quick but anyway i got my 3g
38:04SPEAKERright the 3g definitely definitely has a camera yeah and it would do video as i recall maybe the
38:09SPEAKER3gs was the first one that did video actually you'll see if this thing turns on it's charging
38:15SPEAKERit is extremely not going to turn on i don't even know where cable is to charge it with oh i have
38:20SPEAKERone of those anyway uh but but yeah so like i i feel like there was a conversation in there
38:29SPEAKERin the late 2000s about how much how big the lenses could get and how big the sensors could get
38:34SPEAKERand whether we would ever be able to get good quality video out of those and then they completely
38:40SPEAKERdiscounted those conversations completely discounted the impact of compute of adding
38:45SPEAKERlike shocking amounts of compute to to those devices processing yeah yeah and that like like
38:52SPEAKERadding three sensors that are offset and like there's a bunch of really bonkers technology
38:57SPEAKERthat goes into that now that's it's kind of cool yeah um also they also discounted apple's
39:02SPEAKERwillingness to just keep making the camera bump bigger and bigger and bigger well yeah but but
39:07SPEAKERalso also the camera was the one thing that as the rest of the phone development has slowed down has
39:14SPEAKERcontinued seeing better than incremental advances every year right so you know like jina's argument
39:20SPEAKERhas been hey i take pictures all the time because she's always taking pictures of our daughter and
39:25SPEAKERlike the things that we do so like we get her she's been on the upgrade thing for years because
39:31SPEAKERthere's no reason not to sure when the phone is anyway yeah but i mean the upshot of all this in
39:37SPEAKERthe context of this episode is like the experience of remember going and buying a disposable camera
39:41SPEAKERbefore you went on vacation oh yeah or a little bit later getting your first like canon what elf
39:48SPEAKERwasn't that the line the elf was a digital was a digital line we were a pentax optio family i
39:53SPEAKERbelieve right pretty good but just like the experience of buying a camera and having a camera
39:58SPEAKERand that's what you take pictures with is kind of gone for most people at this point yeah i i
40:01SPEAKERremember buying a digital camera and a 64 megabyte flash card compact flash card yep um the there
40:09SPEAKERthere's also a bunch of other stuff that kind of went away like beepers i got a beeper when i worked
40:14SPEAKERit in the 90s yeah for the days that i was on call for when the servers would go down i get a message
40:19SPEAKERthat was like yo mail servers down sure i think there are still some professions using like beep
40:24SPEAKERbeepers and pagers just because it's do doctors still have beepers i want to say in the medical
40:30SPEAKERrealm stuff like that is still used okay i i didn't i wondered because like having
40:37SPEAKERevery time i've been in a hospital the one thing that has stuck out is how terrible cell phone
40:41SPEAKERreception is inside the hospital and i don't think i would want to rely on life and death stuff rely
40:46SPEAKERon wi-fi life and death stuff i think that might be the reason um but also like i can't imagine
40:51SPEAKERthat like the gprs network or whatever beepers live on is still live so um there's a bunch of
40:58SPEAKERother weird like we have a whole money section here that i don't know oh oh hold on we forgot
41:04SPEAKERabout two really good things remember do you remember that long distance used to cost money
41:08SPEAKERbrad i sure do now here's the thing that i think a lot of people probably don't realize that are a
41:13SPEAKERlittle tiny bit younger but like it wasn't just calling area code to area code that cost money
41:18SPEAKERoften calling from exchange to exchange within one area code would cost money oh absolutely like i
41:23SPEAKERnever was able to call bbs's because all the bbs's in our area were in we're in long distance
41:28SPEAKERexchanges it was it was essentially i don't know if it was exactly arranged around like county
41:32SPEAKERborders but in my mind it was because like the next town over the bbs's in that town i couldn't
41:37SPEAKEReven call those and that was like a 30-minute drive yeah it was less than that like like calling
41:41SPEAKERbluntville was long distance from bristol when i was a kid like this was ashville for us like we
41:45SPEAKERcouldn't call ashville without paying a long distance oh yeah no you did you don't call ashville
41:50SPEAKERno you certainly do not you stick to the four bbs's that you can make local calls to on pain
41:55SPEAKERof death i i remember so my my grandmother's english my grandmother was english and she had
42:00SPEAKERrelatives that lived in the uk that she would like because long distance calling was so expensive and
42:06SPEAKERsometimes it was even hard to get a line like you couldn't you you had to schedule your christmas
42:11SPEAKERcall for a couple of days before or after because often the like it would be congested on christmas
42:16SPEAKERmorning and she would send she had a sister in australia that they would just record audio tapes
42:24SPEAKERand kind of talk to just talk to the person without hearing back you know like just just hey
42:29SPEAKERhere's what's been going on with me my my kids are doing this the dog died you know all the happenings
42:35SPEAKERof the day she'd put that on a cassette tape put it in an envelope and mail it to australia
42:41SPEAKERand then like two weeks later three weeks later she'd get one back oh that's cool as hell
42:45SPEAKERyeah that's that is also ingenious but then but then satellite sat like phone phone services that
42:52SPEAKERuse satellites came around in like the mid 80s after the bell breakup and she could do long like
42:57SPEAKERyou could suddenly afford to do long distance because the satellite stuff even though there
43:00SPEAKERwas a little bit of lag was way cheaper so uh so she would see that's when that's when we would
43:07SPEAKERall gather around the phone on christmas morning and and talk to uncles and aunts and in you know
43:14SPEAKERaustralia and england yeah enormous fortunes have been made by making uh expensive telephony
43:20SPEAKERslightly easier and cheaper yeah exactly um i think that's it i like i feel like answering
43:26SPEAKERmachines are kind of weird but like it's voicemail i don't know do you see voicemail there's i mean
43:33SPEAKERwhen necessary i don't love it but like there is at least a direct analog to answering machines
43:38SPEAKERthat lives on your phone to this day so that's still something people know about yeah um do
43:42SPEAKERyou remember do you remember i remember the first time when i had a one of the early iphones riding
43:48SPEAKERmuni i would be in the train station and i would look around and i'd be the only person on a phone
43:53SPEAKERpartly because they didn't really work in the in the subway station that well at that point
43:57SPEAKERum but then like 2010 29 2011 somewhere around there you would look around and every single
44:05SPEAKERperson would be on a phone like it they completely flipped in like a 12 to 18 month period between
44:12SPEAKERnobody having phones and literally everyone having god i hadn't thought about that like
44:18SPEAKER3g iphone 3g was my first smartphone yeah and i think that was still fairly ahead of the curve
44:24SPEAKERprobably the like the inflection point was between the 3gs and the four okay or the five
44:30SPEAKERlike it was that four generation is when is when everybody got a start in subsidizing them pretty
44:35SPEAKERhard okay and everybody got phones yes it's bizarre like that's not that long ago in the
44:39SPEAKERgrand scheme of things but like in terms of remembering a time before ubiquitous smartphones
44:43SPEAKERlike i i cannot it's we when we launched tested in 2010 and started working in the salsa lido office
44:50SPEAKERthe 3gs was the current iphone and the four came out that year and that was a like that the four
44:57SPEAKERi really think the four was the one that did it like it was the it was the hard edge design the
45:02SPEAKERdecent camera um maybe lte i can't remember i think it was the first one that had lte
45:09SPEAKERhey was it i don't i'm not sure about that that might have been the 4s but anyway uh it like
45:16SPEAKERthere was a fun game that i used to play when i would ride muni then where i would stand in the
45:20SPEAKERi'd be standing there and i would pull out my phone on the subway station and see how many
45:25SPEAKERpeople you could get to pull out your phone just by the mere act of pulling out your phone is that
45:28SPEAKERis like the the the thing where you yawn and then everyone else around you starts yawning
45:32SPEAKERpretty much yeah pretty much human psychology we had all the moral panic stuff around that too
45:37SPEAKERright like we had the moral panic around around oh everybody's looking down all the time everybody's
45:43SPEAKERgonna develop humps you know all of the stupid stuff that people get worried about with every
45:49SPEAKERsingle piece of new technology ever yeah i get it i mean yes it's it's a bit panicky i mean i
45:56SPEAKERthink there is something to be said for not pulling your phone out in the middle of social
46:01SPEAKERsituations and how it can it can dampen face-to-face interactions look brad it's my favorite thing in
46:06SPEAKERthe world i just want to look at it more okay um i i feel like but like a lot of the stuff on this
46:14SPEAKERlist is is has been impacted by that by the rise of phones but a lot of it was well on the way
46:20SPEAKERbeforehand like like the money stuff is really weird yeah we have a whole money section here i
46:24SPEAKERmean i guess the the real gist of the money part is like do you think we are trending toward a
46:29SPEAKERcashless society um like checks are just about gone like i feel like just like payment processing
46:37SPEAKERis just being abstracted further and further through the internet and mobile devices
46:43SPEAKERyeah i mean i bought a checkbook when i started foo and then i wrote two checks i think the
46:49SPEAKERentirety of the business the entirety of the business was two checks one of them was to the
46:53SPEAKERstate okay because they needed a check or a money order i didn't know how to get a money order
46:58SPEAKERum yeah i feel like like denmark doesn't do checks anymore i learned in in researching this episode
47:04SPEAKERlike they just don't like you can't cash a check in denmark apparently at all wow yeah um i feel
47:10SPEAKERlike like wire transfers have gotten inexpensive it used to be that a wire transfer cost like 30
47:16SPEAKERbucks and now since everybody does electronic funds transfer for their paychecks and stuff it
47:21SPEAKERjust works itself out like if you have you ever worked someplace that you've got a paper check
47:25SPEAKERat the end of the month um i think when i was a teenager maybe i got i got paper checks at future
47:32SPEAKERbecause i didn't like the bank stuff i didn't like the eft i didn't want to give them my bank account
47:37SPEAKERnumber like i think i got paid by check when i like when i worked at a pharmacy in high school for
47:41SPEAKERexample but not certainly not in my like professional career has all been direct deposit wait did you
47:46SPEAKERever do cash jobs in high school i had a i had a cash waiting wait table waiting job welts like
47:51SPEAKERoff the books don't tell anybody yes but only from individuals not from businesses like i never
47:56SPEAKERi never worked under the table for an actual company like i would i'd i mowed plenty of yards
48:00SPEAKERi did like yeah it's random random computer repair and got paid cash that way but yeah i did i did i
48:07SPEAKERdid a fair amount of table waiting off the hands no kidding i was like 16 so i probably wasn't
48:11SPEAKERsupposed to be working there on multiple reasons for multiple reasons anyway yeah they had a liquor
48:15SPEAKERlicense um the like the credit card thing do you remember credit do you remember credit cards
48:21SPEAKERbefore you had the mag mag swipe like barely just like i wrote that on here because i have like
48:27SPEAKERthe vaguest vaguest memory of a big slidey machine like some kind of carbon copy business where you
48:33SPEAKERlike put the card down and like slid some heavy piece of machinery across it to to make the carbon
48:38SPEAKERthat's it there was a thing with a roller you put up you put the card down in a special spot on the
48:42SPEAKERthing you put a piece of carbon paper with like three layers on it and then you'd uh you'd could
48:48SPEAKERchunk this roller that would go over the top of that and it would the force of the roller pushing
48:53SPEAKERdown on the up up uh embossed letters on the card numbers on the card would imprint it into the thing
49:01SPEAKERnow the thing you don't remember is that before the swipe would dial into the internet and connect to
49:09SPEAKERor dial into their uh credit card verification place they either had to call a number for big
49:16SPEAKERpurchases so like if you were buying something expensive with a credit card they would call a
49:20SPEAKERnumber and be like okay what's here's the number uh here's the price of the transaction uh is this
49:27SPEAKERcard good for that and they'd say yes or no like a human being would say yes or no on the phone
49:32SPEAKERgod how long would that take the other way that they did it is even more insane in that every two
49:39SPEAKERweeks i think you would get a uh like a newsprint style printout of all of the bad credit card
49:45SPEAKERnumbers no kidding yeah so you would you would flip through there and if you like you'd find the
49:52SPEAKERnumber that was the there would be one for visa and one for mastercard and you'd find the number
49:56SPEAKERand if the number wasn't in the book it was good and if it wasn't the book it was stolen you
50:00SPEAKERshouldn't use it by a mission you can just assume if it's not on the bad list it's probably okay to
50:04SPEAKERuse probably okay wow that is crazy and then i guess they would just like file all their
50:08SPEAKERtransactions at the end of the day or something they would take the slips and i assume they would
50:12SPEAKERmail them wow or fax them i don't know and this is i mean the whole point of credit cards is
50:18SPEAKERconvenience right but none of this sounds remotely convenient i don't know well that's it it wasn't
50:22SPEAKERuntil the it wasn't until the mag stripe came along that it became convenient and like just to
50:27SPEAKERbe clear the mag stripe which we still use in the us inexplicably is like the least secure thing in
50:32SPEAKERthe world because it's like 1970s technology 1960 like like developed in the 60s and implemented in
50:37SPEAKERthe 70s um and there's nothing there's no encryption there's no like you can buy a mag
50:43SPEAKERstripe reader for about four bucks from alley express and read every credit card ever made
50:48SPEAKERuh anyway yeah yeah the the cascade of of slightly better security options for reading credit cards
50:56SPEAKERis kind of interesting to watch you know like it went from the swipe to insert the chip
51:00SPEAKERand i suppose inserting the chip is no longer as secure as it was the nfc is the is that now now
51:06SPEAKERnow you are tapping well it's it's funny because like in um interacting with the car charging
51:12SPEAKERinfrastructure where i assume that they can assume that you have newer technology that's all nfc
51:17SPEAKERbased there's no chips or swipes on any of those on any of those machines that i've seen like
51:21SPEAKERwatching that whole process play out is kind of what makes me wonder if like all of the stuff is
51:25SPEAKERjust going to be completely virtual at some point you know like like stuff like apple pay if you've
51:29SPEAKERgot it loaded on your phone or your apple watch like there's not even a card involved anymore
51:33SPEAKERi think there's still huh it's an interesting question like the well you can put your driver's
51:38SPEAKERlicense in your apple wallet in a couple of states now right which which is a which presents a real
51:44SPEAKERweird like i don't i don't think i want that because i don't want to have to if i get pulled
51:50SPEAKERover for a traffic stop i don't think i want to have to give the cop my phone yes and like if i
51:55SPEAKERthink what if i'm in a state that doesn't support that standard do i have to bump my like if i drive
52:00SPEAKERto another state do i have to remember to take my my card my driver's license card since they won't
52:04SPEAKERbe able to read the bumped the nfc tapped phone like i don't like there's a bunch of weird
52:10SPEAKERquestions there but you're right conceivably with driver's license and insurance card and all that
52:16SPEAKERstuff in your phone and your payment stuff in the phone conceivably you could just leave the house
52:21SPEAKERwith like and and and like a tesla doesn't need a key you just use your phone to unlock it and start
52:25SPEAKERit conceivably you could be in a situation where the only thing you carry isn't your keys for your
52:30SPEAKERhouse or your wallet you just carry a phone right which like to my to the idealistic side of my
52:37SPEAKERbrain sounds awesome it's just a process of like simplification right it's like oh i only need one
52:41SPEAKERthing now that sounds more streamlined than needing five things right but then but it's a single point
52:45SPEAKERof failure well there's that but there's also the part where the world is actually full of bad actors
52:50SPEAKERand people with or or institutions with less than noble intentions and at that point putting all of
52:56SPEAKERthat putting all those kind of personal info eggs in one basket is maybe not the best idea i i feel
53:02SPEAKERlike though like conceptually i feel like apple is probably going to do a better job securing that
53:06SPEAKERthan say the california dmv or bank of america yeah so that's a whatever your bank is really low
53:13SPEAKERbar though well yeah no doubt no doubt um it's it's yeah it's weird and there is infrastructure
53:21SPEAKERlike i would say you need cash to pay like if we if we go someplace and you buy me lunch and i'm
53:25SPEAKERlike oh i need to give you 20 bucks for my half a lunch then like in the old days i would have given
53:30SPEAKERyou a 20 dollar bill and now i'd probably just venmo it to your square cash it to you or something
53:33SPEAKERlike the ramp up on people saying like oh just venmo me oh just paypal me has been like almost
53:39SPEAKERovernight to me i feel like yeah it's it's like that that stuff that stuff has definitely happened
53:46SPEAKERin the last 10 years like i remember when venmo came online or he's like oh this is people are
53:49SPEAKERgonna use this for porn and drugs right and uh then immediately like you would go to a bar and
53:56SPEAKERsomebody would pay the bar tab and they'd just be like hey everybody venmo me 30 bucks and we're good
53:59SPEAKERright and it's even like it's making its way into like professional settings now you know like now
54:03SPEAKERthat we are largely self-employed dealing with like accountants and situations like that like
54:09SPEAKERthey are perfectly happy to use things like venmo to get paid for like professional services
54:13SPEAKERrendered well i venmo my the the people who got my hair i tipped them with venmo wow really yeah
54:19SPEAKERhuh i mean i i just to be clear i usually pay cash just in case so they have the option of
54:25SPEAKERyou know how they're going to handle that with the man but like but like
54:29SPEAKERbut they're there there is a sheet next to the checkout at my barber shop where they have like
54:35SPEAKERthe names of all the barbers and their venmo handles and i think also square cash i think
54:40SPEAKERi think they do multiples that is that is one of the weird one of those just weirdly like quietly
54:44SPEAKERfuturistic things you know yeah it's like the haircutting is as a profession as old as time
54:50SPEAKERright but there's just this little high-tech kind of element that has slid in along the side well
54:55SPEAKERit's it's funny because like in the old days having all that payment processing and all that stuff was
54:59SPEAKERpart of the reason you would work in a shop right because like the barbers would rent a chair and
55:05SPEAKERthen they'd get the benefit of having the cash register and the way to do credit cards and and
55:09SPEAKERlike the magazines and all that stuff there and now like i would much rather go to a barber that
55:14SPEAKERsets up a chair in the park someplace and we just do that all outside sure yeah that's kind of
55:21SPEAKERappealing for a lot of reasons actually yeah um can we talk about like in terms of the things do
55:27SPEAKERyou remember going to the grocery store before barcodes no oh man i huh i had never even thought
55:33SPEAKERabout that until you just said it now i am sitting here googling upc barcode age i guess is what i
55:41SPEAKERdon't like how do you think that worked brad first scanning of the now ubiquitous universal product
55:45SPEAKERcode was on a pack of wriggly company chewing gum in june 1974 at a marsh supermarket in troy ohio
55:53SPEAKERyeah uh 67 cents worth of gum okay so that was just barely before you were born
55:58SPEAKERyeah it was it was right before it was a year before i was born by the time i have any conscious
56:02SPEAKERmemory upc was just everywhere i'd have i have no idea how that worked before actually so the
56:07SPEAKERgrocery stores when i was a kid um when like from the time i remember when i was probably five or
56:12SPEAKERsix would separate into the ones that did that had the barcode like i remember them putting the
56:16SPEAKERbarcode scanners in the kroger that we went to like the grocery store was shut down for a couple
56:20SPEAKERof days they the the checkout uh clerk literally said hey the next time you come in we're gonna
56:26SPEAKERhave a new thing and when we when we went in to see the the one would buy groceries at the barcode
56:31SPEAKERscanner one my mom was like don't look at the thing what do you do i'm sorry what because the
56:37SPEAKERlasers will burn your eyes out wow look okay look there was a large list i wasn't allowed to look
56:41SPEAKERinto the microwave oven either because the the microwaves will burn your eyes out i mean i do
56:47SPEAKERhave real vision problems now so maybe that maybe she was right who knows it's speaking speaking of
56:51SPEAKERthe time before things i'm not quite sure how beliefs like that were propagated before spam
56:55SPEAKERforward email chains came about facts the facts of the the facts facts spam was that was that the
57:02SPEAKEReffect of being on a party line it's like the joneses down the street i've got some real
57:06SPEAKERinteresting ideas about where money comes from no you just found out that but bingo night at the
57:11SPEAKERcountry club i guess oh boy um the country club is definitely where that would happen yeah let me
57:16SPEAKERtell you about those liberals um so so no the grocery checkout each thing had a had a sticker
57:23SPEAKERon it with the price and then the clerk would run them through find the sticker use the night
57:29SPEAKERthe numpad on the on the cash register and type that price in and then move it down the line and
57:36SPEAKERlike they didn't have the belts for a long time it was just like a slide when i was a youth then
57:40SPEAKERthe belts came and the upc things came about the same time as the belt um the upc thing was much
57:46SPEAKERslower than a good clerk really at the beginning no kidding well yeah because they had to take a
57:51SPEAKERlong time to find the recognition on the scan was slow like like if it wasn't lined up exactly you
57:56SPEAKERknow how sometimes like if you do like a bag of freezer vegetables or something it's kind of hard
58:00SPEAKERto do because it's a little bit of rhyme or frost like everything was like that okay back then uh
58:05SPEAKERif it was on something like the barcode had to be on something that was that was rigid like it was
58:10SPEAKERwrinkly it wouldn't work if it was wet if it was scratched people really hated it it was it was a
58:15SPEAKERthere were controversies around the mark of the beast and putting labels on things because
58:19SPEAKERsome things never change the upc of the beast oh the universal product code of the beast if you
58:25SPEAKERwant to go down a hole read about conspiracies around like 1970s conspiracies around universal
58:31SPEAKERproduct code uniform product code sorry the details change but the conspiracies are forever
58:36SPEAKERhow much do you think it costs to get a upc you mean wait a scanner or get a upc for your product
58:42SPEAKERwhat do you get a barcode for your product yeah for your product yeah well i mean first of all
58:47SPEAKERwhat is what is the central authority that even beats those things out uh the central authority
58:52SPEAKERis there one there has to be right there is yeah of course there is uh the central authority is
58:58SPEAKERa 12-digit uh unique number hold on i'm getting there wait is it really just a 12-digit number i
59:04SPEAKERmean i guess i could look at any upc and confirm that the numbers at the bottom the numbers uh
59:08SPEAKERnumbers and emergency that one of them is a checksum and one of them is a system system number
59:13SPEAKERoh really uh yeah what is the what is the total number i mean we talked about this for like ipv4
59:18SPEAKERand v6 what is the total number of upc codes possible it's gonna be it's gonna be 10 it's
59:25SPEAKERsomething to the power of 10 it's 10 to the power 10 right no 10 to the 10th to the 10th to the 10th
59:29SPEAKERit's 10 times 10 times 10 10 times uh 100 yeah 100 100 billion looks like a roughly 100 billion
59:37SPEAKERpossible upc codes also but the first five digits are the manufacturer number so um so gs1 is the
59:47SPEAKERorganization and their website's really slow so i can't tell you what gs1 stands for wow it is
59:52SPEAKERincredibly slow oh there it goes uh gs1 is the supplier for barcodes on ups okay so everything
1:00:02SPEAKERthat has a barcode on it runs through this one organization uh-huh wow the global trade item
1:00:08SPEAKERnumber is the gtin it can be used by companies uniquely identify all of its trade items at least
1:00:14SPEAKERuntil we hit 100 billion discrete products in the world and then until well you've got a real
1:00:19SPEAKERproblem on our hands look look this is a problem for future us it'll probably be fine in our
1:00:23SPEAKERlifetime i mean look they've been working on rolling out upc v6 for years now but it just
1:00:27SPEAKERdoesn't seem like anybody's adopting it this is why crystal pepsi had to die they were out of
1:00:31SPEAKERnumbers sorry crystal pepsi that's right um yeah checking out stuff checking out stuff like it was
1:00:37SPEAKERa skill job yeah i was gonna say so like i mean i was shocked when you said that a good cashier
1:00:42SPEAKERwas still faster than the first ups but i guess they would get very dexterous with with the with
1:00:47SPEAKERthe number input right at some point well and like the really good cashier wouldn't have to look up
1:00:51SPEAKERthe price oh sure right because they just know okay a consumer product diversity was way down
1:00:56SPEAKERin the 80s and 70s uh so you know there weren't there weren't 65 different kinds of oreos in the
1:01:02SPEAKERoreo shelf sure oreos just oreos or hydrox interesting yeah i was thinking i was thinking of
1:01:08SPEAKERit mostly as a manual dexterity skill job but i guess yeah there's also the cognitive part no
1:01:12SPEAKERthough there's a high memory component and then like also that like they'd still have to weigh
1:01:16SPEAKERstuff right so they'd put it in a scale that was up above the cash register usually and they type
1:01:20SPEAKERthat in and then and then like if you were cost like the thing that the game that my mom used to play was
1:01:26SPEAKERshe would run the total in her head as she was shopping so that she could see if that matched the
1:01:31SPEAKERtotal that the cashier came out with to see if he'd mis-entered something sometimes they double tap
1:01:34SPEAKERa button or something you get extra you'd actually pay 10 bucks for a banana or something um but yeah
1:01:40SPEAKERit was it was it was weird here's a here is a question that is kind of counter to most of the
1:01:45SPEAKERexamples that we've been talking about here or to put it put it another way this is something that
1:01:50SPEAKERdid not give way to progress in a way that i thought it might have the uh kind of the tenacity
1:01:55SPEAKERof human cashiers like that you know when did they start rolling out self-checkout at places like
1:02:00SPEAKERgrocery stores like maybe 10 10 years ago it was probably between 10 and 15 was the first time i
1:02:04SPEAKERsaw them yeah 15 15 years ago maybe like yeah like i'm kind of shocked that self-checkout has not
1:02:09SPEAKERtaken over more of the checkout space in places like grocery stores and i don't know why that is
1:02:15SPEAKERum because i mean like if there is anything that corporations love
1:02:21SPEAKERyeah it is turning over human labor to robots they don't have to pay right so not paying people
1:02:25SPEAKEReight dollars an hour it turns out right so like i i'm like i have to assume if they could have just
1:02:30SPEAKERdone done away with cash like actual cashiers entirely they would have by now so i wonder
1:02:36SPEAKERwhat is preventing that from happening yeah it's um i mean part of it is that like at grocery
1:02:41SPEAKERstores there's some stuff you can't ever self-check out right like right beer and alcohol you can't
1:02:45SPEAKERself-check out right there's some other stuff medicine okay sure you got to show your driver's
1:02:50SPEAKERlicense still to get sudafed um i i don't know like i i feel like people don't like them actually
1:02:57SPEAKERlike i feel like some subset of the population doesn't like them maybe this is a generational
1:03:01SPEAKERthing so maybe old like if i bet there's somebody in the tech pod community that knows this i would
1:03:05SPEAKERlove to know the answer if there are like hidden details to that to that particular issue i would
1:03:08SPEAKERlove to hear about them i i like them in theory except when they don't work properly so for me
1:03:14SPEAKERit's very much a how much stuff do i have to do like if i if i do a big target run not that that's
1:03:19SPEAKERhappened in the last two years but like i'll go through the through the aisle with the human and
1:03:24SPEAKERif i'm just going in like if i'm running in to pick up you know some batteries i'll go through
1:03:31SPEAKERthe self-checkout right i mean the big advantage for me is there's almost never a long line for the
1:03:35SPEAKERself-checkout like even even when there are long lines in the aisles the checkout aisles yeah but
1:03:39SPEAKERlike usually just don't have to wait as long but like if i have a whole cart full of stuff
1:03:43SPEAKERit's way faster for two people to work like sure it's way faster for me to unload them to scan and
1:03:48SPEAKERthen me both of us to load up bags for sure than it is for me to do the whole thing yeah i'll wait
1:03:54SPEAKERin line for a minute i have to admit to extreme satisfaction every time i scan a barcode it's very
1:03:59SPEAKERfun it's yes i like that part quite a bit the biggest problem i have with self-checkout at the
1:04:04SPEAKERSafeway is that i've seen this at other stores too is constantly complaining about where you set the
1:04:09SPEAKERitem down after you after you scan it oh yeah the loss prevention stuff is maddening like it'll it'll
1:04:14SPEAKERjust seize it'll seize the whole works up and say like take the item back out of the bag like it's
1:04:18SPEAKERlike hey it's not in a bag i put it where you said to did you ever go into the amazon like they just
1:04:23SPEAKERgrab stuff and walk out store no i i i kind of wish i had once just to try it i don't know if
1:04:27SPEAKERthose demons still exist downtown with the what they did before the pandemic i don't know if
1:04:32SPEAKERthat's what i mean that's what i mean i don't know if the pandemic has driven those out of business
1:04:35SPEAKERbut i mean i think amazon's probably doing okay well i know if those things are not doing anything
1:04:40SPEAKERthey could still shut them down my i'm super curious about i never went into it either because
1:04:45SPEAKERit opened and closed within like like it opened right before the pandemic and closed almost
1:04:49SPEAKERimmediately i mean or i haven't been downtown on foot since then um i'm really curious because my
1:04:56SPEAKERunderstanding is that there are like a handful of smart computer stuff and then a lot of people
1:05:00SPEAKERwatching cameras in like someplace that's inexpensive to pay people interesting so
1:05:06SPEAKERand and combined with a mixture of shit that they don't care if it's stolen
1:05:12SPEAKERyeah so what is the payment mechanism always for people that don't know like i don't know what the
1:05:16SPEAKERmechanism is here but for people who don't know what the business model is it's literally
1:05:20SPEAKERi forget what they're called it's not amazon fresh is the delivery service right i forget amazon
1:05:25SPEAKERi think it's the shop and go is what it's called right uh anyway the point is there's nobody
1:05:30SPEAKERtheoretically there are no humans manning the store you just walk in and get the thing you
1:05:34SPEAKERwant and walk out with it and somehow they charge you for it but i don't know that's the part i
1:05:38SPEAKERdon't i'm not sure i understand yeah so i think you i think you have to check in with your phone
1:05:43SPEAKERright and is that what it is on account okay so there's pop-ups it's amazon go is what it's called
1:05:48SPEAKERlike go right uh good good good food no lines no checkout and uh my understanding is that you walk
1:05:57SPEAKERin it's like mostly food and convenience store stuff and you just walk in you scan you scan your
1:06:03SPEAKERyour code you tap like a code to in the app to let them know you're there you grab what you want and
1:06:09SPEAKERthen you walk out hmm curious how well that actually works look it's it's on my list of
1:06:19SPEAKERthings to go check out once uh once we're back in the business we're back back in the real world
1:06:24SPEAKERyes if and when that happens i think uh i mean we had a lot more stuff on this list and we will
1:06:30SPEAKERdo another one of these in the future people like it space these out uh i would also be really
1:06:34SPEAKERcurious to hear all of the stuff like we didn't even get into planes airplanes were weird man
1:06:39SPEAKERyeah i'm fascinated with like 60s air travel i'm i'm always i'm always tripped out when i go to my
1:06:46SPEAKERdaughter's school and like there's no overhead projectors they just have like they just have
1:06:50SPEAKERprojectors and laptops everywhere right yes that's a good i can i can airplay stuff onto the screen
1:06:55SPEAKERin my daughter's classroom when i'm on the school wi-fi oh that's so weird yeah lack of card catalog
1:07:01SPEAKERin the library is a good one yeah yeah um remember encyclopedias i vaguely never had a set never we
1:07:09SPEAKERnever we had a set of world books from the 60s at home we never bought in go ahead and tell you
1:07:14SPEAKERbut if you want to read some problematic reading in the 21st century i'm gay i will assure you
1:07:19SPEAKERthat world books in the 60s had some interesting ideas about diamond mining and uh genocides i
1:07:26SPEAKERthink we ended up with a hand-me-down like the school my mom worked at like they were tossing
1:07:31SPEAKERtheir encyclopedias so it was like hey you're gonna have these if you don't want us to go shred
1:07:35SPEAKERthem or whatever i think we might have an old set at my parents house now i should maybe dig that
1:07:40SPEAKERout you used to be able to get used to be able to do like subscription model encyclopedias where
1:07:45SPEAKERi think world book worked this way where you would pay like 20 bucks a month and you'd get
1:07:49SPEAKERover over 26 months or 30 months you'd get like a full set of encyclopedias and then send you one
1:07:55SPEAKERletter at a time this month b yeah we're literally that's when that's how it worked weird yeah weird
1:08:02SPEAKERuh it was a different time uh but you know what it is time this is a similar time we do this time
1:08:08SPEAKERevery week that's right it's time for seamless segues yeah time to thank the patrons thank you
1:08:14SPEAKERpatrons thank you thank you patrons thanks patrons thank you um as always no thank you no no thank
1:08:24SPEAKERyou patrons uh as always this is a listener supported show you don't take ads so if you
1:08:29SPEAKERwould like to support the show uh you can find out how by going to patreon.com slash tech pod
1:08:34SPEAKERagain that's patreon.com slash tech pod uh and for as little as two bucks a month you can join
1:08:39SPEAKERthe fabulous tech pod discord where you will have well look okay this thread experiment's going a
1:08:45SPEAKERlittle sideways is it thread club did you see the goose thing this morning no is hey is thread club
1:08:53SPEAKERdrunk with power they've i think they've gone rogue man oh boy we might have done too many
1:08:57SPEAKERcanadians oh no are we gonna have a splinter faction on our own discord look there's a goose
1:09:02SPEAKERappreciation thread are they going to create uh are they going to create a thread from from which
1:09:08SPEAKERto foment rebellion our our lord of emoji is doing anti-goose stuff and the thread club is doing pro
1:09:15SPEAKERgoose stuff so like it's like we got it we got a real like i think we're gonna have to we're gonna
1:09:21SPEAKERhave to have a summit i think is what's happening okay um we have to crack open the discord jail for
1:09:27SPEAKERthe first time look i'm i'm not ruling anything out at this point okay uh but it's it's uh it's
1:09:33SPEAKERa wonderful community of of of just really really beautiful nerds yeah just all sorts of good stuff
1:09:39SPEAKERall the time it's a good time i have to special shout out to all of the people doing goofy
1:09:44SPEAKERuh spooky halloween names for their yeah usernames and avatars that's always a good time yeah i love
1:09:49SPEAKERi love that i like that better on discord it turns out yeah twitter i think yeah uh so so yeah um
1:09:57SPEAKERuh you can join the tech pod discord for uh by going to patreon.com slash tech pod
1:10:02SPEAKERand then we also do a monthly uh patron only episode and some other stuff yeah if you want
1:10:07SPEAKERto check that out but uh as always special very special thanks to our executive producer tier
1:10:12SPEAKERpatrons including paddle creek games maker makers of fractured veil andrew slosky the bunny fiend
1:10:19SPEAKERjacob chapel joel krauska twinkle twinkie david allen and james kamek thank you all so much thank
1:10:23SPEAKERyou uh and thanks to everybody whether you whether you chuck in a couple bucks a month or or just
1:10:28SPEAKERtell your friends we love it i've been i've been getting good tweets lately and i brad i switched
1:10:33SPEAKERback to tweet deck okay there's no ads on tweet deck were there ever no i never forgot i never used
1:10:41SPEAKERuh tweet deck you might shock you to hear that i had strong feelings about adobe air
1:10:48SPEAKERwhat hold on i'm guessing they have not been on i'm guessing has not used it as the air in a very
1:10:53SPEAKERlong time was adobe air that weird app platform thing that they did for a while it was some dumb
1:10:58SPEAKERapp middleware that you had to install to make i doubt tweet deck has required that in quite a long
1:11:02SPEAKERtime no it's just a it's just html at this point since once twitter bought them i guess it was
1:11:08SPEAKERbefore that but yeah can you can you get standalone tweet deck anymore or is it just in the web
1:11:12SPEAKEReverything's in the one browser if it comes just just just a web client um well if you have chrome
1:11:17SPEAKERyou can do that chrome app thing still i think where you can make it a make it its own thing and
1:11:22SPEAKERand launch it as an application but yeah sweet deck all still all about the multiple feeds
1:11:26SPEAKERsimultaneously side by side thing what you want to see some columns i can show you some columns i'm
1:11:31SPEAKERgood honestly i'm gonna let you here look take a look at this please don't share your reception
1:11:36SPEAKERtrying there you go you're gonna see it you can't help but see it look at that look at all these
1:11:39SPEAKERcolumns oh yeah trying to get a little less twitter in my life and still more stuff stop
1:11:46SPEAKERsharing my screen now yes um but yeah uh that'll do it i think for us this week yeah mr shoemaker
1:11:52SPEAKERyeah thank you should we put that should we put that other thing at the end after the after the
1:11:56SPEAKERmusic oh the people who stick around the hair thing i mean there was a hair thing i sure okay
1:12:02SPEAKERsure god well i should have said this during the hair thing that will be after the outro music i
1:12:08SPEAKERguess instead of right now but i think i'm gonna be in the most social situation i have been in
1:12:13SPEAKERsince the pandemic started in december yeah in terms of visiting family yeah and so forth here
1:12:19SPEAKERyeah i've i've potentially got a huge decision to make about the hair you could just jared lito and
1:12:26SPEAKERgo for the man bun the whole time i was kind of where i'm at now well but on the top instead of
1:12:30SPEAKERin the back just lean with it it's true oh man i've got some thinking to do over the next five
1:12:36SPEAKERor six weeks i i watched dune last night and i got about 45 minutes or an hour in and i was like
1:12:44SPEAKERholy shit that guy's helmet is a vive pro audio strap wait like a literal one it is i mean that
1:12:50SPEAKERhappens a lot people people use off the shelf but totally yeah like the oscar isaac's helmet in one
1:12:56SPEAKERof the scenes where he's in a in a in an airplane thing is literally like a vive pro audio strap
1:13:02SPEAKERwith an extra piece of plastic tacked on that was painted that's good stuff it was awesome i was
1:13:06SPEAKERlike oh man and then i tweeted it last night of course because that's what that's one of the
1:13:10SPEAKERthings twitter is still good for and then people again norm saw this yesterday and posted the
1:13:14SPEAKERpictures and then i've seen like five other vr people post that today so um but uh that movie's
1:13:19SPEAKERcool it's a pretty movie yeah uh yeah you should you should i i went to my daughter's school the
1:13:26SPEAKERother day to pick some stuff up without a hat on which is the first time i've gone out in public
1:13:29SPEAKERwith the long hair i think without a hat yeah where i'd see people i knew any strange looks
1:13:35SPEAKERi got the stink eye from the principal wow she didn't recognize me because the long hair in the
1:13:40SPEAKERmask but like who's this grizzled man who's entered our lobby who's this beard oh huge weird
1:13:45SPEAKERbeard oh um but yeah it's uh i don't know it's weird see y'all next week i guess that's the end
1:13:55SPEAKERof the podcast bye i can't are you doing the bun without a without a uh hair tie oh no there's
1:14:10SPEAKERdefinitely a hair tie okay i've been trying to learn how to do it without the hair tie i'm
1:14:13SPEAKERincapable it just doesn't work i don't can you do that i have seen women do that but i think they
1:14:17SPEAKERmight have to jam a pencil through there it's a mystery there's got to be an implement of some
1:14:21SPEAKERkind in there yes hair does not bind in that way unless you just never wash it in which case well
1:14:25SPEAKERi tie it up and twist it around real good so it's nice and tight and then i jam it through the
1:14:29SPEAKERcenter of the of the knot and that'll hold for a few minutes but if i bump it then it falls out
1:14:33SPEAKERno tying your hair into its own knot maybe is a questionable look i'm not particularly attached
1:14:38SPEAKERto the hair i mean it's attached to me i was gonna say next time you brush or comb it if you're
1:14:42SPEAKERcomfortable with half of it coming out then tie away look my hairline is not getting any lower
1:14:48SPEAKERBrad.