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94: "Naked Corporate Opportunism"

2021-07-04 · 1:08:51

00SPEAKER- The pigs are weaking, Brad.
01SPEAKER- Wait, are they?
02SPEAKERI don't hear anything.
03SPEAKER- No, they're in the other room.
04SPEAKERThey might be, I don't know.
05SPEAKERI was trying to do a hand.
06SPEAKERThe pigs are, the pigs are weaking, Brad.
09SPEAKER- Aha.
10SPEAKERI was trying to figure out how to tie this into text somehow
13SPEAKERand say like, oh, the noise filtering on this chat service
15SPEAKERwe're using is very good
16SPEAKERbecause I can't hear those pigs weaking.
18SPEAKERYou have pigs.
19SPEAKER- I do not have pigs.
21SPEAKERI am a temporary custodian of guinea pigs.
24SPEAKER- Yes, you're a caretaker for what,
26SPEAKERanother two days or something?
28SPEAKER- Friday, they go, yeah.
30SPEAKER- Oh, really?
30SPEAKER- I know, I'm sad.
32SPEAKER- Wait, are you?
33SPEAKER- So, okay.
35SPEAKERThere's the teacher, our daughter's teacher from last year
40SPEAKERsent a note around and was like,
41SPEAKERhey, does anybody wanna take the guinea pigs?
43SPEAKERI have two cats and a dog in my house
46SPEAKERand I don't think it's a good idea
46SPEAKERfor them to live with me this summer.
48SPEAKERSo they're gonna go on the tour
51SPEAKERof all the second and third grade classrooms.
54SPEAKERAnd so we picked, they came last Friday.
58SPEAKERThe last parent and children who had them brought them by
02SPEAKERand we set them up on the hearth in the living room
05SPEAKER'cause that's the biggest space
06SPEAKERthat we have available for them.
08SPEAKERAnd I have never, aside from like a few minutes
12SPEAKERhere and there with your pigs,
14SPEAKERI had never really spent any time with guinea pigs before.
17SPEAKER- And now you know, I've been getting delightful messages
19SPEAKERfrom you all week every time they do something ridiculous
21SPEAKERand you have, I have really enjoyed vicariously living
25SPEAKERthrough your ongoing discovery of what complete goofballs
29SPEAKERguinea pigs are.
30SPEAKER- They're huge goobers.
31SPEAKER- They are the goofiest animals on the planet
33SPEAKERand nobody knows it unless you have them yourself.
36SPEAKER- So like we have Pumpkin and Licorice, they're both boys.
39SPEAKERAnd Pumpkin is the epitome of a guinea pig in my head.
44SPEAKERHe's like, he's got a lovely orange coloring
47SPEAKERwith a kind of darker spot on his side.
49SPEAKERHe's got perfectly fur covered ears.
52SPEAKERHis fur is smooth and sleek.
55SPEAKERHe looks chunky yet svelte and he's very serious.
00SPEAKERLicorice on the other hand has like 18 cow licks.
04SPEAKER- Oh, he's an Abyssinian.
05SPEAKER- Is that what it is, okay.
07SPEAKER- Yes, Abyssinians have the cow licks all over the place.
09SPEAKER- And he basically, anytime he, okay,
13SPEAKERso the time I've spent with rodents before
16SPEAKERhas been like rats and mice and guinea and hamsters
19SPEAKERand they don't really regard you, they're not.
21SPEAKER- Yes, I try to tell people that all the time.
23SPEAKERWhen people think of guinea pigs,
24SPEAKERthey just think of slightly larger hamsters and gerbils.
26SPEAKER- Yeah, it's not right, that's not right.
28SPEAKER- They have every bit as much personality as dogs and cats.
33SPEAKER- Well, okay, the dogs and the cats learn where to poop
36SPEAKERand the pigs not so much, at least these pigs.
39SPEAKER- Oh, well, see, that's the thing.
40SPEAKERIf you were to become a more permanent owner,
43SPEAKERit could give you a lot of tips
45SPEAKERabout directing them where to go.
48SPEAKERAnd then you don't have to clean the whole cage all the time.
50SPEAKER- Well, but so the point, okay,
51SPEAKERthat's good information for Gina.
53SPEAKERThe thing about licorice is every time he regards you,
57SPEAKERhe does the dramatic prairie dog look and it's very funny,
02SPEAKERbut he's very serious about it.
03SPEAKERAnd I didn't expect them,
05SPEAKERwhen you go sit at, after I finished a stream at night,
07SPEAKERI'll go sit down in front of their pen
10SPEAKERand they both come over there like, "Hey, what's up?"
12SPEAKERAnd they look at me and they're like,
13SPEAKER"You got any food or anything?"
16SPEAKERI'd take a pet maybe.
17SPEAKER- Oh yeah.
18SPEAKER- They're very affable.
19SPEAKER- I mean, they more than just regard you.
20SPEAKERWe opened the cage and we have a little rug that we put out
23SPEAKERto just kind of expand their removable area.
25SPEAKERAnd if you get down on your knees and say hello,
28SPEAKERthey'll run up and climb up on your knees.
30SPEAKER- Really?
31SPEAKER- Yeah, absolutely.
32SPEAKERI mean, it takes time though.
33SPEAKERIt takes a lot more than a week to draw them out that much.
36SPEAKERBut yeah, absolutely.
37SPEAKERThey climb up the side of the cage,
38SPEAKERthey vocalize in 800 different ways.
40SPEAKEREvery guinea pig we've ever had
41SPEAKERhas had so many personal idiosyncrasies.
44SPEAKER- Yeah, they have a stunning amount of personality.
48SPEAKERI have quite enjoyed getting to know pumpkin and licorice.
51SPEAKER- One of ours, one of the ones we have now,
53SPEAKERevery time we fully, we clean the cage every day,
56SPEAKERbut we fully like replace everything once a week.
58SPEAKER- Yeah.
59SPEAKER- As soon as we put them back in every week,
01SPEAKERright after that cage toss,
03SPEAKERshe just runs around the cage,
04SPEAKERswaying her butt back and forth and like hip bopping things.
08SPEAKERLike-
09SPEAKER- Like a sachet?
10SPEAKER- Yes, she's like, literally we'll just sort of like,
12SPEAKERboom, boom, boom, like kind of sway her hips into things.
15SPEAKERLike she'll knock things over.
16SPEAKERShe just runs around rearranging everything.
18SPEAKERIt's ridiculous.
19SPEAKER- They're, like they move,
21SPEAKERthey have a little stump that they hang out in.
24SPEAKERThey like cover, right?
25SPEAKER- Yes, they're prey animals.
26SPEAKERThey like to be under things.
28SPEAKER- So we, like they have two little hutches,
31SPEAKERbut the crate that they're in for the summer,
33SPEAKERthe one that they have in class is a little bit bigger,
35SPEAKERbut the one that they're going from house to house in
36SPEAKERis a little bit smaller.
38SPEAKERSo we've done like a hammock to give one of them cover
41SPEAKERor like a platform, a low platform
43SPEAKERwhere they can kind of hang out under there for sleeping
45SPEAKERand stuff like that.
47SPEAKERBut yeah, they're delightful.
49SPEAKERLike the other night, Gina and the kiddo came in
52SPEAKERand they were like,
54SPEAKERyeah, they're doing something hilarious.
56SPEAKERAnd I was like, like, is everything okay?
59SPEAKERAnd my daughter who's eight was like, yeah, that's so funny.
04SPEAKERAnd I looked at Gina, I was like, okay.
06SPEAKERShe's like, yeah, they're fine.
06SPEAKERI had to look it up.
07SPEAKERBut they were doing this thing called popcorning,
09SPEAKERwhich I had never heard of before.
11SPEAKERAnd they popcorn apparently when they're very happy
13SPEAKERis what the internet told us.
15SPEAKERWe thought they might be,
16SPEAKERGina thought they might be having seizures
17SPEAKERand we had to go to the emergency room real fast.
18SPEAKER- Yes, like the idea of you not,
21SPEAKERthe idea of you witnessing popcorning
22SPEAKERwithout knowing what popcorning is is so hilarious to me.
25SPEAKERI can't explain it.
26SPEAKER- Like it's like, they're so taken by spasms of joy
31SPEAKERthat their muscles tense up
32SPEAKERand they jump like four inches into the air.
34SPEAKER- They're like jumping beans there.
36SPEAKERThat's like, it's literally like popcorn popping.
38SPEAKERLike they become airborne, they contort midair.
42SPEAKERI have many times I have seen guinea pigs do full 180s.
45SPEAKER- And then when one of them does it,
47SPEAKERusually the other one gets going
49SPEAKERand they kind of, it's like you get the giggles
51SPEAKERand it's contagious.
52SPEAKER- It's ridiculous.
53SPEAKERI have seen a pig popcorn all the way around the cage
55SPEAKERdoing a lap before.
57SPEAKERThey're the goofiest animals on the planet.
59SPEAKERI wish more people, you know what?
02SPEAKER- You should do a pig cast.
03SPEAKER- I may have, well, I shouldn't say it out loud.
05SPEAKER- Don't say it out loud.
07SPEAKER- I registered a Twitch account.
08SPEAKERDun, dun, dun.
10SPEAKERPiggies 24/7 coming to a live stream near you.
14SPEAKER- I like this.
15SPEAKERThis is a patron benefit.
16SPEAKER- Stay tuned.
18SPEAKER- No, they're awesome.
19SPEAKERThey're lovely.
19SPEAKERThe only problem is the cage situation.
22SPEAKERLike our house is small.
23SPEAKERWe want to get dogs again.
24SPEAKERWe're actually kind of looking for dogs right now.
26SPEAKERAnd I feel like it's unkind to have dogs and pigs together.
30SPEAKER- I can see the conflict, yeah.
31SPEAKER- Prey and prey animals.
33SPEAKERIt's like, you know, it's a match made in tragedy.
36SPEAKER- Let's just, maybe we should just move on to the tech.
39SPEAKER(upbeat music)
45SPEAKER(upbeat music)
10SPEAKER- Welcome to Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod.
12SPEAKERI'm Will.
13SPEAKER- I am Brad, hello.
14SPEAKER- Hello, Brad.
15SPEAKER- How are you?
15SPEAKER- I never know what to say after that.
16SPEAKERLike the cadence of that intro is such that I feel like
19SPEAKERI should just say I'm Brad and stop.
22SPEAKERBut I feel like that's violating every yes and rule
25SPEAKERthat I have ever learned.
27SPEAKERHelp me out here.
28SPEAKER- No, I think you handle it very well.
30SPEAKER- Okay.
31SPEAKER- I think you, look, the beautiful, the reason I started,
35SPEAKERthe reason Norman and I started doing hi,
36SPEAKERI'm Will from Tested, I'm Norm from Tested
38SPEAKERwas 'cause we couldn't, it's like that Talladega Nights
41SPEAKERjoke about not knowing what to do with your hands.
43SPEAKERWe just couldn't, we were bad at starting videos.
44SPEAKER- Okay.
46SPEAKER- So we were just like, let's just have this,
49SPEAKERsay the same stupid thing every time.
52SPEAKERAnd then we did it for like five years
53SPEAKERand then we got four years
54SPEAKERand then we got tired of this, we stopped.
56SPEAKER- Well, then the problem just becomes
57SPEAKERwhat is the first thing I say after the thing I always say?
59SPEAKERLike you're just deferring the problem about five seconds.
02SPEAKER- No, but this is like writing.
04SPEAKERThis is like, you know, if you write novels
06SPEAKERthen they tell you just, you know,
07SPEAKERsit down in the morning and write like three sentences.
09SPEAKERIt doesn't matter what they are.
10SPEAKERThey can be complete garbage.
11SPEAKERYou're just gonna throw them out.
12SPEAKERBut it's just to get, it's to get your fingers moving
14SPEAKERand your brain working on the keyboard, right?
16SPEAKER- Sure.
17SPEAKERThere's a Stephen King quote I have clung to for years.
19SPEAKERIt was in that book On Writing.
21SPEAKER- On Writing is one of my,
22SPEAKERis probably my favorite book about learning to write.
24SPEAKER- Oh, it's so good.
25SPEAKER- Yes.
26SPEAKER- I haven't read it in way too long,
27SPEAKERbut the quote is essentially like writing is easy.
29SPEAKERIt's knowing what to write that's hard.
31SPEAKER- Yeah, turns out.
32SPEAKER- Yeah, I think that applies to most everything probably.
35SPEAKER- I mean, one of the things I learned working at Tested
39SPEAKERand interviewing hundreds or thousands of makers
42SPEAKERis that the hardest part is always starting.
45SPEAKEROnce you get started,
46SPEAKERthen like one thing leads to another and on and on and on.
48SPEAKERSometimes you stall out.
49SPEAKERSometimes you stop.
50SPEAKERSometimes you don't know what to do next
51SPEAKERand you have to look it up.
52SPEAKERBut once you get that first couple,
54SPEAKERthose first couple of things,
54SPEAKERthat initial inertia moving, everything gets easier.
57SPEAKER- Who was that?
59SPEAKERGod, we're never gonna actually talk about Windows 11 here.
01SPEAKERWho was the legendary Simpsons writer
03SPEAKERthat just gave his first interview in like 20 years,
06SPEAKERa few weeks ago and people,
07SPEAKEReverybody was flipping out about it
08SPEAKERand I don't remember his name
09SPEAKERand I had not heard of him before,
10SPEAKERwhich I think was by design
11SPEAKERbecause he seems to keep to himself.
14SPEAKER- God, I've talked about him three times this week.
16SPEAKERJohn, his name's John something.
17SPEAKER- It's John something and it's a long last name.
19SPEAKER- Grundle son.
20SPEAKERHe sounds like he's from Minnesota.
21SPEAKER- Schwartz welder.
23SPEAKER- Schwartz welder.
23SPEAKER- Yes, John Schwartz welder.
26SPEAKER- He has a diner, like a diner booth,
28SPEAKERtwo diner booths in his house
30SPEAKER'cause he likes to work in diners.
30SPEAKER- Oh, that's amazing.
32SPEAKER- Yeah.
33SPEAKER- Well, part of that interview was him talking about
34SPEAKERhow he wrote the Simpsons.
36SPEAKER- Yeah.
37SPEAKER- And if I remember,
38SPEAKERhis technique was essentially to write the episode
41SPEAKERwith no jokes in it.
42SPEAKER- Oh yeah, so here's the framework of story?
44SPEAKER- He gave a way better explanation for it than I could,
46SPEAKERbut yeah, it was essentially just like,
48SPEAKERdon't try to think of the funny stuff.
50SPEAKERLike the meat of the Simpsons is the jokes, right?
52SPEAKER- Yeah.
53SPEAKER- It's just like, don't even bother trying to come up
54SPEAKERwith the jokes on your first draft.
55SPEAKERLike just get the damn draft done in 30 minutes,
58SPEAKERgo to bed and then wake up the next morning
59SPEAKERand maybe some jokes will have popped
01SPEAKERinto your head by then.
01SPEAKERIt's just like, just start doing the work,
03SPEAKERjust get it down on paper
04SPEAKERand then fill in the part that matters.
06SPEAKER- So he does, I mean, this is Scott,
08SPEAKERJohn Scalzi says the same thing.
09SPEAKERDo the easy part first
10SPEAKERand then come back and do the hard part
11SPEAKERafter the easy part's done.
12SPEAKER- Yes.
14SPEAKERPodcasting is a distinctly linear format though,
17SPEAKERso you can't really pick and choose.
19SPEAKERWe just gotta go with it.
20SPEAKER- I mean, I don't know.
21SPEAKERI feel like we do the hard part 'cause we do,
22SPEAKERlike we have fairly extensive notes on every episode,
25SPEAKERmost every episode.
26SPEAKER- We have one, two, about a page and a half of bullet points
30SPEAKERabout Windows 11 here.
31SPEAKER- Talking about the means people are gonna ask for them,
33SPEAKERbut they're not really formatted for human consumption.
35SPEAKER- They're pretty ugly.
36SPEAKERI mean, we have like occasionally,
38SPEAKERlike especially with this one,
40SPEAKERwe have like kind of conversations in the notes
44SPEAKER'cause we're filling them out at the same time.
46SPEAKERAnd like maybe we should post these
49SPEAKER'cause these are especially conversational.
52SPEAKER- Okay, okay, I'm okay with it.
53SPEAKEROkay, so.
54SPEAKER- Windows 11.
55SPEAKER- Windows 11, last Thursday morning,
58SPEAKERwe talked about it on the TechPod Discord with patrons.
01SPEAKERWe did a stage.
02SPEAKERNext time we, that was kind of a trial.
04SPEAKERThe stage is there like Clubhouse/Twitter Spaces thing
07SPEAKERwhere you can like do a live radio show, basically.
10SPEAKERWe opened it up to everybody.
12SPEAKERNext time we'll tweet about it,
14SPEAKERboth on Sweatpants Tech and probably our own Twitters.
17SPEAKERI quite enjoyed it.
18SPEAKERI thought it was a fun way to do that.
18SPEAKER- It was pretty neat.
19SPEAKERWe were going to properly talk over
21SPEAKERthat Windows 11 stream with video
23SPEAKERon a proper live streaming service, but we.
25SPEAKER- I couldn't get my show together.
27SPEAKERIt's been a busy couple of weeks.
28SPEAKER- I was very glad after the fact
30SPEAKERthat we didn't bother to do that
31SPEAKERbecause they insisted on using their own live stream player
34SPEAKERrather than any of the turnkey services out there
36SPEAKERthat are very reliable.
37SPEAKERAnd it completely broke.
38SPEAKER- It worked on Twitter.
39SPEAKERTwitter was fine.
40SPEAKER- Well, that's the thing.
41SPEAKERWe ended up having to watch that thing on Twitter
42SPEAKERbecause Microsoft's own embedded live player was a disaster.
46SPEAKER- Not great.
47SPEAKERBut yeah, so the upshot is.
50SPEAKER- They announced Windows 11.
51SPEAKER- They announced Windows 11, like five, six years ago,
54SPEAKERthey came out and said, look, this is the,
55SPEAKERWindows 10, this is the last Windows.
56SPEAKERWe're never gonna need another one.
57SPEAKERIt's gonna be Windows as a service from now on.
59SPEAKERBut here we are.
00SPEAKER- Do you know if,
03SPEAKERdid that announcement predate Nadella?
04SPEAKERWas that after he came, he took over?
06SPEAKER- I believe that was the last sweaty gasp of Steve Ballmer,
10SPEAKERbut I could be wrong. - Wait, really?
11SPEAKER'Cause that does not sound like a Ballmer-esque move.
14SPEAKERBallmer seems like a guy who sold boxed products
16SPEAKERand wanted to sell boxed products forever.
19SPEAKERSo if anything, I would guess that was like
21SPEAKERNadella's big regime change.
23SPEAKERLike, ah, we're doing things differently.
24SPEAKERWe're the new Microsoft.
25SPEAKERWell, that's just my guess.
27SPEAKERThe reason I ask is like,
28SPEAKERis he the one who is going back on his own word now?
33SPEAKER- It's possible.
34SPEAKER- Were they looking up now?
35SPEAKER- Sorry for the typing.
36SPEAKER- Were they not to be taken at their word, clearly?
39SPEAKER- Never take any companies at their word, Brad.
42SPEAKER- The Windows 10 was the last Windows.
44SPEAKERI've gotten pretty used to Windows 10.
45SPEAKERI think it's all right.
46SPEAKER- Windows 10 was released in 2015,
48SPEAKERwhich was almost six years ago, like July 15th.
52SPEAKER- So by forever, they meant six-ish years.
55SPEAKER- I mean, yeah, that's a long time for an OS.
58SPEAKER- I guess so.
59SPEAKER- That's like Windows XP time span, basically.
06SPEAKER- So first off, I don't think that there's anything wrong
11SPEAKERwith them saying, hey, we need to do a new version of Windows.
13SPEAKERI actually kind of welcome it.
14SPEAKERAnd from looking at the stuff that they're doing,
17SPEAKERboth on the front end and on the back end,
19SPEAKERI don't necessarily agree that it's all good,
21SPEAKERbut I'm glad that they're doing,
24SPEAKERI'm glad that they're making steps
26SPEAKERto make Windows more robust.
29SPEAKER- Yeah.
30SPEAKER- 'Cause I mean, essentially, we're still working
32SPEAKERon the same, I mean, some stuff has changed,
34SPEAKERbut the underpinnings are more or less the same
36SPEAKERsince Windows 7 or Vista even, which we're looking at,
40SPEAKERthat's like 10, 15 years, it's a long time.
42SPEAKER- I mean, the quality and necessity
43SPEAKERof those new stuff they're adding is subjective,
46SPEAKERbut I feel like at least in the aggregate,
48SPEAKERit is enough stuff to justify the full name change,
51SPEAKERthe full new product rollout,
52SPEAKERlike the under the hood and on the surface,
55SPEAKERthey're doing enough to it that it feels like a new Windows.
59SPEAKER- Well, and I think the thing for me
02SPEAKERthat's interesting here is that there was a big kerfuffle,
06SPEAKERand we'll get into it, about the min spec stuff,
08SPEAKERthe minimum specification for the OS
10SPEAKERrequiring some hardware encryption stuff,
12SPEAKERwhich is, just to be clear, TPM is kind of a mixed bag
16SPEAKERand the stuff that they're doing around virtualization
20SPEAKERto segregate the core parts of the OS
22SPEAKERand the security, the stuff that needs to be protected
30SPEAKERfrom malware basically is the gist,
32SPEAKERis potentially really interesting and good.
35SPEAKERNow there's a lot of potential downside to that too,
37SPEAKERand we'll definitely talk about that,
38SPEAKERbut in a world where ransomware on Windows machines
47SPEAKERis bringing down gas pipelines
50SPEAKERand causing billions and trillions of dollars
54SPEAKERof economic impact,
56SPEAKERand the ransomware threat is accelerating every day,
59SPEAKERI'm glad that Microsoft is taking steps
03SPEAKERto make a more secure version of Windows
06SPEAKERthat uses the tools that are available in modern hardware
09SPEAKERnow rather than waiting until it's a disaster
11SPEAKERlike they did with Windows XP.
13SPEAKER- This seems like a pressing need.
15SPEAKERI forgot, God, I forgot that pipeline hack
17SPEAKERwas basically just some basic vulnerability, right?
22SPEAKER- Yeah, it's just some bullshit
23SPEAKERthat if the people who were running IT there
25SPEAKERwere better at their job,
26SPEAKERthen it probably wouldn't have been a problem,
28SPEAKERbut also it probably wasn't their fault
29SPEAKER'cause my guess is if it's like every business in the world,
32SPEAKERthey were underfunded and didn't have the resources
34SPEAKERto do what they needed to do.
36SPEAKER- Somebody guaranteed somebody was screaming
37SPEAKERabout that vulnerability for months or years.
41SPEAKER- There will be memos.
42SPEAKER- Yeah.
43SPEAKER- In addition to backend stuff and security stuff,
45SPEAKERthere's cosmetic redesign for the first time
47SPEAKERsince essentially Windows 10 came out,
48SPEAKERwhich is I think not a bad thing.
50SPEAKERI feel like it's gonna be divisive on this show,
53SPEAKERbut we'll find out.
55SPEAKER- What makes you say that?
56SPEAKER- Just look, some of us are set in our ways
58SPEAKERand some of us are open to change.
00SPEAKERWe'll see who is the most fixed and who is the most mobile.
05SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, Windows 10 had some minor updates
07SPEAKERover the years.
08SPEAKERI'm trying to remember what their branding was
10SPEAKERfor some of that stuff.
11SPEAKERIt's fluent design, I wanna say.
15SPEAKER- They added acrylic.
16SPEAKER- Acrylic, I think was-
17SPEAKER- Really?
18SPEAKER- Let me see, Windows 10 acrylic.
19SPEAKER- They named it after plexiglass?
21SPEAKER- Yes, it was when they rolled in a bunch of transparency.
23SPEAKERI think it was a bunch of GPU accelerated stuff.
25SPEAKERLike it's like, oh, the clock and the calendar,
27SPEAKERwhen you pop them up now, you can see through them.
29SPEAKER- Really?
30SPEAKER- Yeah, that came along mid Windows 10.
32SPEAKER- Whoa, I never noticed that.
33SPEAKER- Project acrylics, let's see.
35SPEAKERAcrylic material for Windows apps.
37SPEAKERYes, that absolutely is a thing.
38SPEAKER- Okay, nobody uses that.
40SPEAKER- Yeah, the Windows 11 stuff is certainly more profound.
44SPEAKER- Yeah, it's a nice refresh, I think.
47SPEAKERI think like the rounded corners and the windows,
49SPEAKERthe center task start menu.
53SPEAKERWhat, you don't like the rounded corners?
54SPEAKER- Oh, I hate rounded corners.
55SPEAKER- Have you used OS X for a long time?
57SPEAKER- I hate rounded corners.
58SPEAKER- They got rid of them.
59SPEAKER- OS X has not had rounded corners for walls,
01SPEAKERso it's not OS X, and we should talk about that as well.
04SPEAKERWe still need to talk about whether the existence
06SPEAKERof Mac OS 11 is what occasioned the creation
09SPEAKERof Windows 11 or not.
10SPEAKER- Maybe, but by that logic,
13SPEAKERthen they should have called this the Xbox 5
15SPEAKERand not the Xbox series or whatever.
17SPEAKER- That is like famously,
18SPEAKERthat's where the name Xbox 360 came from
20SPEAKERbecause there was a PlayStation 3 imminent.
23SPEAKER- I know, the next one's gonna be the Xbox 720, dude.
25SPEAKER- Yeah, we're getting off topic.
29SPEAKER- I like rounded corners.
29SPEAKER- Oh, I hate them, man.
31SPEAKERDude, what are those lonely little bundles of pixels
34SPEAKERon the corners gonna do?
36SPEAKER- I don't care.
37SPEAKER- If not, display screen.
38SPEAKERI like hard edges, I think they, I don't know.
41SPEAKER- Like ultimately, victimless crime here, right?
44SPEAKERNobody cares at the end of the day
45SPEAKERif the corners are rounded, it's not gonna hurt you.
47SPEAKERI mean, what did the rounded corners do to you, Brad?
49SPEAKER- Like, dude, I mean, if you think I am not going to see
52SPEAKERif there's a registry edit day one
55SPEAKERto restore hard corners, you are okay.
58SPEAKER- I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, centered start menu,
01SPEAKERthat's, I don't have strong feelings one way or the other.
04SPEAKER- That one is fine because you can still put it back
06SPEAKERon the left if you want, but I see the use case for that.
09SPEAKER- Yeah.
10SPEAKER- I will, you know, I will set it to the left
11SPEAKERlike the second I install Windows 11, but that's fine.
13SPEAKER- Yeah, what are these floating pop-ups?
15SPEAKERI didn't, I missed that one.
17SPEAKER- It's for stuff like the, you know,
19SPEAKERlike if you click on your clock in the system tray
22SPEAKERor even the start menu, actually,
23SPEAKERlike they're not attached to the taskbar anymore.
25SPEAKERThey float.
27SPEAKERThere is, there's a gap between, yes, there's a gap.
30SPEAKERNot that, not that you can drag them around,
31SPEAKERthey're not windows, but they, like the start menu,
33SPEAKERwhen you pop it up will be visually detached.
37SPEAKERIf you look at any of the screenshots
38SPEAKERfor all those stuff that pops up off of the taskbar,
41SPEAKERit is kind of a floating design.
43SPEAKER- Yeah.
44SPEAKER- I think that part looks kind of neat.
45SPEAKER- I don't, I feel like I feel no particular attachment
48SPEAKERto the taskbar.
49SPEAKERI feel like if the things are loose, that's fine.
52SPEAKER- Well, I have some news for you.
54SPEAKER- Yeah, what's up?
55SPEAKER- They think that the taskbar should be attached
58SPEAKERin a very specific way,
01SPEAKERwhich is to say it's now locked to the bottom.
07SPEAKER- What the fuck?
10SPEAKER- I don't know how you didn't know about that.
11SPEAKERI feel like that was like--
12SPEAKER- Did they tell the, I watched that whole stream.
14SPEAKERI didn't, they didn't talk about that at all.
15SPEAKER- No, not in there.
16SPEAKEROh, you know, the thing I forgot to mention
18SPEAKERat the top of the show.
18SPEAKER- What in the everlasting fuck?
20SPEAKERThat's not okay.
21SPEAKER- The thing I forgot to mention at the top of the show
23SPEAKERis that a build of Windows 11 leaked days
25SPEAKERbefore that stream even happened.
27SPEAKERSo people knew this.
28SPEAKERI feel like that was like the only thing
30SPEAKERanybody was yelling about day one of that leak was like,
33SPEAKERyou can't move the taskbar off the bottom anymore.
35SPEAKERWhat the hell?
36SPEAKER- Oh, this will not stand.
38SPEAKER- I don't know.
39SPEAKERI can't believe they're doing that.
41SPEAKER- Like my monitors are all super fucking wide.
44SPEAKERWhy do I want to waste all those pixels on taskbar
47SPEAKERacross the whole thing?
49SPEAKER- I don't, I don't know.
50SPEAKER- Oh, my gentle Jesus, okay.
51SPEAKER- I'm looking right here on CCF tech under, under,
57SPEAKERhere is how Windows 11 taskbar changes things up.
59SPEAKERIt's a long list of things.
00SPEAKERThe one in bold alignment to the bottom of the screen
03SPEAKERis the only location allowed.
06SPEAKER- I mean, look, I get why they would want to change that
07SPEAKER'cause I'm sure it's a design hassle
09SPEAKERto have to like move everything all, you know,
13SPEAKERlike constantly be moving that stuff, right?
15SPEAKERLike you have to design it four different ways.
17SPEAKER- Yes.
18SPEAKER- And the behaviors, like frankly,
20SPEAKERas a left taskbar person,
21SPEAKERwhich I know makes me a huge weirdo,
24SPEAKERthe behaviors for left taskbar do not,
27SPEAKERoften are nonsensical to foolish.
29SPEAKER- I've tried to switch and I have the same problem, yes.
32SPEAKERIt's.
33SPEAKER- But like realistically on widescreen monitors,
36SPEAKERit just takes so many frigging pixels
38SPEAKERto have it across the bottom.
40SPEAKER- Yeah, it's just short enough for me to not care.
43SPEAKER- Yeah.
44SPEAKER- If it was any taller, it would be more of a problem.
46SPEAKER- Yeah, the problem I have is on my portrait ultra wide,
50SPEAKERwhich is a very silly monitor in the first place.
52SPEAKER- I bet that's a very tall taskbar.
54SPEAKER- It syncs, the taskbar position syncs across windows
58SPEAKERsince I log into the same account for both machines.
00SPEAKER- Sure.
01SPEAKER- I don't actually know how to disable that syncing.
04SPEAKERSo I have a very tall, very long left taskbar
07SPEAKERon that computer.
08SPEAKER- That sounds absurd.
11SPEAKER- It's pretty ridiculous.
12SPEAKEROkay, this is bad.
13SPEAKERI'm suddenly, I like.
15SPEAKER- See now you know how I feel all the time.
17SPEAKER- Mine is rational and makes perfect sense
19SPEAKERand yours is irrational and being persnickety.
22SPEAKER- Of course, all of your opinions are objectively correct.
24SPEAKER- Yes, I'm glad somebody finally agrees.
29SPEAKERWhat else they got Brad?
31SPEAKER- I guess they're saying yet again
32SPEAKERthat they are finally going to fully unify the control panel
35SPEAKERand I assume that means get rid of all the legacy dialogues
39SPEAKERthat are still in there, but I will believe it when I see it.
41SPEAKER- So I haven't, I guess I talked to them
44SPEAKERaround Windows 10 launch and they did not,
47SPEAKERthey actively did not say that they are unifying
50SPEAKERboth control panels, they said they are working on it.
54SPEAKERThis is a problem that's existed since I think Windows 8
56SPEAKERwhich came out in 2012 where they had like
00SPEAKERthe UWP slash Metro control panel which is called settings
06SPEAKERand then they had the classic control panel
08SPEAKERwhich is kind of the same thing that's been there
10SPEAKERsince like XP or maybe even 95.
15SPEAKERAnd like there's still a bunch of stuff like you can't,
18SPEAKERlike there's sound settings that you can only access
20SPEAKERin the old control panel applet
21SPEAKERand the settings app doesn't have all the right stuff.
23SPEAKERSo like it would be really nice to just look in one place
27SPEAKERfor all of this stuff.
27SPEAKER- I agree, I just hope they actually do it right.
30SPEAKER- Yeah, the Windows snapping layouts,
34SPEAKERthat seemed really good.
35SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean that's basically fancy zones
37SPEAKERfrom power toys, right?
38SPEAKER- But maybe slightly less fancy
40SPEAKER'cause you can configure your own zones on power toys
42SPEAKERand I think this is still just like,
44SPEAKERI think this is them looking at the aspect ratio
46SPEAKERof number of pixels on your monitor
48SPEAKERand making some intelligent decisions
49SPEAKERabout how big Windows might wanna be.
52SPEAKER- Oh, that's disappointing.
54SPEAKERI was hoping this was configurable.
55SPEAKERI was hoping they literally just uplifted fancy zones
58SPEAKERinto proper Windows but maybe not.
59SPEAKER- I could be wrong, I could be wrong, so we'll see.
04SPEAKERHey, I got good news, Brad, how would you feel
08SPEAKERif I told you that they were gonna put Teams
10SPEAKERas like a main core Windows feature?
13SPEAKER- I would immediately respond with a question.
16SPEAKER- Yes.
16SPEAKER- Can I remove Teams?
18SPEAKER- We'll find out.
19SPEAKER- Can I just right-click Teams in the start menu
20SPEAKERand uninstall it?
21SPEAKER- Probably, I don't know.
22SPEAKERYou could do that with Candy Crush,
23SPEAKERanother core Windows feature.
24SPEAKER- Right, exactly, can I just Candy Crush it?
29SPEAKER- I use Teams for work and I don't even want this.
31SPEAKER- Okay, that's pretty telling.
33SPEAKER- I mean, look, I've kind of come around on Teams.
36SPEAKERWhen you use Teams and you live outside
38SPEAKERof the Teams infrastructure,
39SPEAKERTeams is an unequivocal evil piece of software.
42SPEAKER- That's the experience I've had.
43SPEAKER- When you use it as your day-to-day way
44SPEAKERto communicate with everybody in your business,
48SPEAKERin your company, it's actually,
50SPEAKERlike they do a lot of stuff that's pretty smart.
52SPEAKERSo it's janky but good, I would say.
56SPEAKER- We're done in my other job, in my other life,
58SPEAKERin my day job, we're having that experience right now
00SPEAKERof like having a bunch of meetings with different people
02SPEAKERlooking for different services and stuff
04SPEAKERand it's like, oh, this company uses Zoom.
06SPEAKERYes, this company wants to meet on Teams.
07SPEAKERLiterally, we were doing the round robin of like,
11SPEAKERoh, they're using Google Hangouts for this meeting.
13SPEAKER- Look, I'll tell you a secret.
14SPEAKERIf you send the invite, you pick what you use
18SPEAKERand I just send everything in Zoom, it turns out.
21SPEAKER- That's a hot tip.
22SPEAKER- Hot tip.
23SPEAKEREdge Bing is integrated everywhere.
25SPEAKEREven if you choose other defaults,
27SPEAKERthat seems to be the case in the Insider build.
29SPEAKERIt's kind of the way it's always been.
31SPEAKERSo if you accidentally do web search from the command line,
35SPEAKERfrom the start menu, you press the Windows button
37SPEAKERand you type something and it does a search
40SPEAKERinstead of launching the app that you wanted,
42SPEAKERit's still gonna be Bing and Edge, so that's unfortunate.
45SPEAKER- One of my most wanted, maybe my most wanted Windows
49SPEAKERfeature is a filter for what the start menu searches
52SPEAKERwhen you type into it.
53SPEAKER- You used to be able to do that.
54SPEAKER- You can't, there are some registry hacks
57SPEAKERthat you can kind of do stuff now, but it searches files,
00SPEAKERit searches the web, all kinds of shit.
03SPEAKERI just wanted to look through the software I have installed
05SPEAKERand nothing else, please.
08SPEAKER- Yeah, I want, that's exactly what I want.
10SPEAKERI just want the software that's installed on the computer.
13SPEAKERMaybe files, but even that's questionable.
18SPEAKERGame Pass is built in, Xbox stuff is integrated again,
21SPEAKERwhich is good.
24SPEAKER- That all seems sensible.
27SPEAKER- Those were kind of the high points.
28SPEAKERThere wasn't, it's early, it seems like,
30SPEAKERso they were showing some little stuff.
33SPEAKERThey did talk about expanded touch targets
36SPEAKERfor people with touch screens and stuff like that,
38SPEAKERwhich is something that's gotten a little bit better
40SPEAKERevery time they've done even Windows 10 updates.
46SPEAKERI feel like the rounded corners will help with that
48SPEAKER'cause it gives you a bigger surface area to hit.
52SPEAKER- You would say that.
54SPEAKER- I love rounded corners, I love round rips.
58SPEAKERBut there were also some big under the hood feature changes
00SPEAKERand some of these, I'm gonna say, pretty surprising.
06SPEAKEROne of the big ones is that on the Microsoft Store,
09SPEAKERlike the Windows version of Apple's App Store,
11SPEAKERthe Google Play Store,
14SPEAKERlike if you want to do your own payment processing,
17SPEAKERthen you can just do that.
19SPEAKERAnd they aren't gonna take a cut.
21SPEAKERSo like-- - How does that work?
22SPEAKERHow do you, well I'm not sure, I assume there's some API
24SPEAKERor something on the back end, right?
25SPEAKERLike how would you actually plug your own payment processor?
28SPEAKER- Like if you use Stripe or like any of the,
32SPEAKERthere's a bunch of payment processing systems,
34SPEAKERyou just write your application with that API
37SPEAKERand then you don't go through the Microsoft,
39SPEAKERinstead of using Microsoft's API
41SPEAKERthat they take their 30% cut on everything you sell,
44SPEAKERor I think actually they said it's 15 now, but anyway.
48SPEAKERThen you just do your own
50SPEAKERand you take whatever Stripe's cut is,
52SPEAKERwhich is usually like payment credit card transaction fees
55SPEAKERplus a small percentage.
57SPEAKER- But you're still distributing the software
58SPEAKERthrough the Microsoft Store?
00SPEAKER- Yeah, they don't care.
01SPEAKERI think games is maybe the exception, but--
03SPEAKER- Interesting.
04SPEAKERAnd then--
06SPEAKER- This is a good thing.
07SPEAKERThis is very much, look, if we're being realistic
12SPEAKERabout the impact of this change to Windows users,
15SPEAKERto people who use the Windows Store,
17SPEAKERit's probably pretty negligible
18SPEAKERbecause I don't think many people use the Windows Store
21SPEAKERand even fewer are buying, like doing transactions
25SPEAKERthrough the Windows Store for things that are cash money.
27SPEAKER- Right, like this is not a massive revenue stream
28SPEAKERthat they're giving up, right?
30SPEAKER- Microsoft is saying it's not quite equivalent
34SPEAKERto me saying, hey guys, the Will Smith revenue,
36SPEAKERthe Will Smith App Store is no longer,
39SPEAKERI hate, A, I have an app store, surprise.
42SPEAKERB, I am not gonna charge you money
45SPEAKERif you implement your own transaction system.
48SPEAKERThis is important specifically because Epic,
51SPEAKERthe creators of such games as Unreal Tournament 2004
54SPEAKERand Fortnite are suing Apple, the creators of the iPhone
59SPEAKERand the iPhone App Store for not letting them do
02SPEAKERtheir own payment processing system inside an app
04SPEAKERthat's distributed through the App Store.
06SPEAKERAnd they're doing that because they're tired
08SPEAKERof paying Apple 30% of all the money
10SPEAKERthat their application earns when they are actually
12SPEAKERdistributing the files and all the other stuff for Apple,
14SPEAKERfor like, all that you download when you download Fortnite
17SPEAKERfrom the App Store was like a launcher, basically.
19SPEAKEROkay.
21SPEAKERBy doing this, Microsoft is saying, hey, Epic,
25SPEAKERif you need an example of like other app stores
27SPEAKERthat don't behave in this anti-competitive kind
29SPEAKERof shitty way, we have some that are probably
32SPEAKERlegally actionable for you.
35SPEAKERAnd just to be clear, like Apple,
40SPEAKERlike realistically, any company that's not Facebook,
44SPEAKERAmazon, Microsoft, Netflix.
47SPEAKER- The Fang. - That's the other one.
48SPEAKER- Yeah, the Fangs plus Microsoft.
50SPEAKERWhy is Microsoft not a Fang?
51SPEAKER- I don't know.
52SPEAKERI think I have to assume it's because
54SPEAKERit does not pronounce well.
55SPEAKERLike, where would you put an M in there?
57SPEAKERM-Fang? - M-Fang.
58SPEAKERMotherfucking Angs.
02SPEAKERAnyway, if you're not a trillion dollar company
06SPEAKERand you're suing Apple,
07SPEAKERit's the equivalent of like you and me suing Apple.
09SPEAKERIt's like, we're all in this together with Epic, right?
12SPEAKER- What's the point?
13SPEAKER- Epic's gonna get crushed.
13SPEAKERThey're gonna get destroyed in this lawsuit.
15SPEAKERIt doesn't matter.
16SPEAKERIt's good that they're doing it.
16SPEAKER- Right, but I mean, like also the point is
18SPEAKERthis is not some like good-natured benevolent move
21SPEAKERon Microsoft's part, right?
22SPEAKERIt's like, hey, this app store is like,
24SPEAKERand also ran in this space already.
26SPEAKERSo this is a way we can get some attention on it
29SPEAKERand get people using it even if we're not,
31SPEAKERlike we're already a trillion dollar company, right?
33SPEAKERLike we already have Azure and Office and Windows
35SPEAKERand like 18 other revenue streams.
37SPEAKERLike we don't need this store to be hugely profitable.
40SPEAKERWe can leverage it as a competitive play.
43SPEAKER- They can use it to stick a knife
45SPEAKERin somebody else's back at a convenient moment,
47SPEAKERwhich is exactly what's happening.
48SPEAKER- But it's still good for the resellers
50SPEAKERthat will be benefiting from it.
52SPEAKER- I mean, if Epic wants to distribute Fortnite
53SPEAKERthrough the app store instead of just downloading a file,
55SPEAKERthey can now.
58SPEAKER- I assume, I don't think they talked about this
59SPEAKERon that stream, but does this dovetail with the rumors
01SPEAKERabout Win32 apps on that store and so forth?
04SPEAKER- There's no rumors.
05SPEAKERThat's just a thing that happened like a year ago, yeah.
08SPEAKER- Oh, okay.
09SPEAKERYou must be behind.
10SPEAKER- You can download Win32 apps on the Windows store.
12SPEAKER- That's already there?
13SPEAKER- Yeah. - Oh.
14SPEAKER- Or let me rephrase.
16SPEAKERThey said that you could do that a while ago,
18SPEAKERwhether it actually happened yet or if it's tied
20SPEAKERto Windows Next slash Windows 11, what Windows Next became,
25SPEAKERI don't know.
26SPEAKER- 'Cause there's a fair amount of some core low-level stuff
30SPEAKERthat Microsoft makes on the Windows store now,
32SPEAKERlike the new Windows Terminal, which is fantastic,
35SPEAKERthe new PowerShell.
35SPEAKER- Python 3.8.
37SPEAKER- Right, there's a lot of command line utility-type stuff
39SPEAKERon there, and I'm not clear if those are being bundled up
42SPEAKERin some UWP capacity still or how-
44SPEAKER- No, they're just normalized programs.
45SPEAKER- Are they?
46SPEAKER- Yeah. - Okay.
47SPEAKER- 'Cause the Python is just an EXE, I believe.
51SPEAKER- Okay.
52SPEAKER- So also on the losers bundling their,
58SPEAKERlike airing of grievances by the third-rate companies
02SPEAKERin these spaces. - Harsh.
03SPEAKER- Well, I mean, look, unless you have a Fire tablet,
07SPEAKERthe Amazon App Store is not super relevant to you probably.
11SPEAKERHowever, Amazon does have a way to distribute Android apps
14SPEAKERoutside of Google.
15SPEAKERMicrosoft loves to have more apps available
18SPEAKERon their platform. - Sure.
19SPEAKER- So rather than using Bluestacks
21SPEAKERor one of those Android emulators on your PC
24SPEAKERto run TikTok, to get the TikToks,
27SPEAKERnow you can just download the Amazon App Store,
30SPEAKERand get this, you can get an App Store for your App Store,
33SPEAKERso you can download apps while you're downloading apps.
36SPEAKER- I'm just resisting the urge
38SPEAKERto make any kind of exhibit joke here.
40SPEAKER- Look, I think it's too late for that now,
43SPEAKERif we're being honest.
44SPEAKERBut look, Amazon's App Store,
45SPEAKERprobably doing okay for Fire tablet users,
48SPEAKERprobably not lighting the world on Fire
49SPEAKERfor normal Android people. - Yes.
52SPEAKER- But they said, hey, you can actually put an App Store
57SPEAKERinside another App Store,
58SPEAKERand it's not gonna destroy the business for anyone involved,
01SPEAKERsetting more precedents that can be cited
03SPEAKERin ongoing litigation, antitrust cases, and things like that.
06SPEAKER- Very convenient.
07SPEAKER- It is incredibly convenient.
09SPEAKERSo, like this is, we talked about this last week a little bit
15SPEAKERor maybe in the patron episode, I can't remember,
17SPEAKERbut like this is the war is coming moment,
20SPEAKERlike the fangs in Microsoft are going at it.
22SPEAKER- When we were planning this episode,
23SPEAKERlike I was all excited to get in here
25SPEAKERand talk about rounded corners,
26SPEAKERand, you know, centered start menus and so forth.
30SPEAKERAnd then you blurted out,
32SPEAKERyou blurted out the phrase war is coming,
33SPEAKERthat's the point here.
34SPEAKERAnd I was like, whoa, it's got dark all of a sudden,
37SPEAKERbut I'm trying to pull up this article you sent me
40SPEAKERfrom Bloomberg, I believe it was.
41SPEAKER- Yeah, so it was in Bloomberg.
42SPEAKERThere's a non-paywall version on the Mercury News
45SPEAKER'cause the Bloomberg one,
45SPEAKERyou immediately would like get hit for $400 on.
48SPEAKER- Yes, yes, but yeah, the headline,
50SPEAKER"Google and Microsoft end to their five-year ceasefire."
52SPEAKERAnd I didn't really know about any of this.
54SPEAKERI heard, you know, I think I maybe knew at one point
56SPEAKERand forgot that they used to butt heads all the time.
59SPEAKER- So when Sundar Pichai and Sachin Nadella were young
05SPEAKERand new CEOs of these giant corporations,
09SPEAKERthey said, hey, let's let bygones be bygones.
11SPEAKERAnd instead of going to government regulators
15SPEAKERto solve our problems when we disagree with each other,
17SPEAKERlet's establish a process that's fair and equitable
20SPEAKERfor everyone to resolve our differences peacefully
23SPEAKERwithout involving the feds or the Eurofeds
26SPEAKERor whichever, pick your government regulatory body.
30SPEAKERSo they did that for five years.
32SPEAKERIt expired, nobody's renewing it.
35SPEAKERThey're all walking away.
36SPEAKERMicrosoft has already gone to the ukes complaining about,
41SPEAKERI think ad, like about the fact that on Google's ad,
46SPEAKERso Google has an ad marketplace.
47SPEAKERWe can buy ads across all networks, including Microsoft's,
50SPEAKERand they're not supporting the new Bing features
52SPEAKERthat Microsoft wants them to support in a timely manner.
54SPEAKERSo Microsoft is alleging that they're losing business
57SPEAKERto similar Google features
58SPEAKERbecause Google is prioritizing their own products
01SPEAKERin what is supposed to be an otherwise open marketplace,
03SPEAKERthus performing anti-competitive behaviors.
06SPEAKERAnd I believe that they did actually go through
07SPEAKERthe entire process for this.
09SPEAKERAnd the end of the process was them calling the regulators
11SPEAKERand complaining.
14SPEAKERBut again, this is an interesting situation
16SPEAKERbecause Microsoft and Google,
20SPEAKERlike realistically Microsoft not super competitive
24SPEAKERon the browser front,
25SPEAKERprobably a little bit more competitive on the search front.
28SPEAKER- Yeah, like that kind of got us listing out
30SPEAKERand just cut off the top of the head in this document here,
32SPEAKERlike what fronts they do compete on.
34SPEAKERSo it's like, I have to assume Bing is not any real threat
38SPEAKERto Google search.
39SPEAKER- Bing probably, Bing shows up in weird places.
41SPEAKERLike Bing is the default for DuckDuckGo, I think.
44SPEAKERIt's the Yahoo search now.
46SPEAKERBut like realistically, probably not a big,
48SPEAKERlike they're not making much money off of Bing search
52SPEAKERwould be my guess.
53SPEAKER- Right, right, I assume.
55SPEAKER- That's on a micro, like it's a shitload of money
57SPEAKERfor you or me, but for like Microsoft, it's like,
00SPEAKERyou know, tuppence.
01SPEAKERYou know, there's Office, Office 365
03SPEAKERversus like the Google Apps suite.
05SPEAKER- I'd say that's probably a pretty,
06SPEAKERpretty significant source of competition.
09SPEAKER- Yeah, Azure obviously is huge
11SPEAKERand I couldn't tell you the name of Google's Cloud Compute.
14SPEAKER- It's called Google's Cloud and it's a huge also.
16SPEAKER- Is it huge?
17SPEAKER- Yes, Google Cloud Compute is, they do a lot of like,
21SPEAKERit's not like AWS where all the big services
24SPEAKERthat you know and love like Netflix run on it,
26SPEAKERbut it's in the same scale.
27SPEAKER- So yeah, the last time I looked at a ranking,
29SPEAKERit was like AWS, then Azure, then everything else
32SPEAKERwas the impression I got,
33SPEAKERbut maybe Google's gotten bigger there.
35SPEAKER- They're in the top five.
36SPEAKER- Okay.
37SPEAKER- Yeah, and I don't know if the top five on this
42SPEAKERis a thing where like one and two,
43SPEAKERor one is the only one that matters,
45SPEAKERor one and two are the only one that matters,
46SPEAKERor the top five are all equivalent now,
48SPEAKER'cause it kind of changes on the moment by moment.
51SPEAKER- I have to imagine that is like,
52SPEAKERmaybe even probably the fastest moving world
54SPEAKERin computing, right?
55SPEAKER'Cause all the entire world runs on it now.
57SPEAKER- I mean, they're building a massive amount
59SPEAKERof, everyone that has this kind of money
01SPEAKERis building a massive amount of infrastructure
03SPEAKERbecause like, this is why compute,
05SPEAKERlike buying compute in the cloud has gotten cheap
08SPEAKERis because everybody just keeps putting more fucking servers
11SPEAKERinto data centers that are planted next
13SPEAKERto hydroelectric power stations and stuff like that.
15SPEAKER- Do you think when it's safe to go back out into the world,
18SPEAKERwhich seems like it'll get here sooner or later
20SPEAKERat this point, do you think we could go like
21SPEAKERdo an episode from a data center?
23SPEAKER- Absolutely not.
24SPEAKER- No?
25SPEAKER- No, they're really, really cold and really, really loud.
27SPEAKER- That's why, well, okay, loud is yes, that's a problem.
30SPEAKERThe cold is why I want to go.
31SPEAKER- Also, they're very secretive.
33SPEAKER- Yeah, I know, I know.
34SPEAKERThat's why I asked if you thought we could get away with it.
36SPEAKERI want to experience that cold.
37SPEAKERI want to see what it feels like in there.
39SPEAKERMaybe we don't record in there,
41SPEAKERbut I would love to go in a data,
42SPEAKERif anybody listening to those can get us
44SPEAKERinto a Bay Area data center on the sly,
46SPEAKERI just want to see how cold it is in there.
48SPEAKER- I think if we wanted to go inside a supercomputer,
51SPEAKERwe could probably make that happen
52SPEAKER'cause a lot of those are universities and stuff like that.
54SPEAKERAnd it's kind of the same vibe.
56SPEAKER- I would totally do that as well.
57SPEAKER- Yeah, okay.
58SPEAKERWell, we put it out there.
59SPEAKERSo the email address is techpod@content.com.
03SPEAKERI've never been inside a supercomputer
05SPEAKERor I've been inside a data center,
06SPEAKERbut it was like a colo where you brought your own server
10SPEAKERthat had ears on it and you just slammed it in the rack
13SPEAKERand then plugged it in and then left.
15SPEAKERYeah, it's been 20 years since I did that.
17SPEAKER- Slamming something into a rack, that sounds fun.
19SPEAKER- 300 bucks a month for a slot and some bandwidth.
22SPEAKER- That's pretty much my top three things to go inside.
25SPEAKERData center.
26SPEAKER- Slots.
27SPEAKER- Data center, supercomputer, particle accelerator.
30SPEAKERNot necessarily in that order.
32SPEAKER- You don't want to be in the particle accelerator.
33SPEAKER- Not in the particle accelerator, inside the facility.
36SPEAKER- What is the beam?
37SPEAKERDoes the beam tingle?
37SPEAKEROh yeah, that's weird.
40SPEAKEROkay, so Google Apps, Azure and the Google Cloud,
43SPEAKERI think ads is probably the big contentious one.
46SPEAKER- Yeah, I think that's probably what this Bloomberg story
49SPEAKERtalked about the most.
50SPEAKER- Well, I think that's just 'cause it's the most
52SPEAKERrecent example of a public scuffle.
55SPEAKER- My guess is that there's more than that.
56SPEAKERAnd I bet it comes all the way down to things like
59SPEAKERhow Google Apps are presented in the Play Store.
02SPEAKERI mean, how Microsoft Apps are presented in the Play Store
04SPEAKERversus how Google Apps are presented.
06SPEAKERAnd like, my guess is that they're really pissed
09SPEAKERall the time at each other.
10SPEAKER- Yeah, that's possible.
11SPEAKERI mean, the story has got some fun quotes in it.
14SPEAKER- Yes.
15SPEAKER- So Google, this Google Senior Vice President,
17SPEAKERKent Walker is quoted as accusing Microsoft of quote,
21SPEAKER"Naked corporate opportunism."
23SPEAKER- Oh yeah, those are good corporations Brad.
26SPEAKER- No, thank you.
27SPEAKERThat's not the road I was...
28SPEAKERI was thinking more of a Wild West fighting words
30SPEAKERkind of situation of they're gonna duel at noon.
33SPEAKER- Maybe, but they're playing poker
34SPEAKERand then it goes bad, right?
35SPEAKER- Yeah.
38SPEAKERAnd tech regulation, tech regulatory action
40SPEAKERis gonna get weird, isn't it?
42SPEAKERBecause-
42SPEAKER- I don't think it's ever gonna happen again, probably.
44SPEAKER- You don't think so?
44SPEAKERWell, I think the X factor is the kind of, you know,
50SPEAKERright wing censorship angle.
53SPEAKERAll the Section 230 nonsense.
55SPEAKER- I mean, the Florida courts have already shut down
58SPEAKERthat stupid law from Florida
00SPEAKERthat just was signed the other day.
02SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't know if it'll ever actually go anywhere,
04SPEAKERbut it has lit a fire under the asses of people
06SPEAKERwho are usually very friendly toward large corporations
09SPEAKERand suddenly are not.
11SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't know.
12SPEAKERThey still cash the checks, I bet.
14SPEAKER- Yeah, we'll see if anything ever comes with that stuff.
17SPEAKERBut anyway.
18SPEAKER- So it's okay.
19SPEAKERSo other under the hood stuff, direct storage.
21SPEAKERWe talked about this with the maybe next gen consoles.
25SPEAKERI can't remember.
26SPEAKERWe talked about it last year.
27SPEAKEROh, the AMD cards, I think last year.
29SPEAKER- Also around the 3080 announcement
31SPEAKERbecause Nvidia was pushing.
36SPEAKERYeah, so that's the thing that offloads
37SPEAKERlike asset decompression and stuff
39SPEAKERonto the graphics card from the CPU.
41SPEAKER- Yeah, but it lets the, more specifically,
44SPEAKERit lets the GPU access storage on the SSD
46SPEAKERwithout using the CPU.
48SPEAKER- Right, right.
49SPEAKERSo which is basically what the consoles,
52SPEAKERthe next gen, I mean, I guess they're now current,
54SPEAKERthe PS5 and the Xbox Series S and X do
57SPEAKERto have no load times.
58SPEAKER- Right.
00SPEAKERYeah, I mean, I don't know.
01SPEAKERThat gets into weird territory of like,
03SPEAKERyou have to worry about what drive specific games
07SPEAKERare installed on that support this or not, right?
08SPEAKERAnd it's like, oh, if this game supports this
10SPEAKERand I have the hardware,
11SPEAKERthen I want to make sure that's on my super fast,
12SPEAKERlike PCIe four drive and not like my crappy old
15SPEAKEReight year old, you know, SATA three drive.
18SPEAKER- And also you're going to have to start thinking
20SPEAKERabout how many lanes you have accessible in your CPU and so.
25SPEAKER- Never enough lanes.
26SPEAKER- Never enough lanes.
29SPEAKERWhen is this all happening, Brad?
30SPEAKERWhat's the story?
31SPEAKERHow can I get it now?
32SPEAKER- October 20th, when this comes out.
35SPEAKER- Is that for everybody?
36SPEAKER- No, although this doesn't,
40SPEAKERI don't know if this has been clarified beyond this tweet.
43SPEAKERGranted, the tweet came from @Windows.
45SPEAKER- Okay, that's a, that's a cromulent source,
48SPEAKERas, as, as Twitter goes,
50SPEAKERI don't think there's a more authoritative source
51SPEAKERabout Windows than @Windows.
54SPEAKERAnd this is also responding to a random person
56SPEAKERasking them about this,
57SPEAKERbut they say Windows 11 is due out later in 2021
01SPEAKERand will be delivered over several months.
03SPEAKERBut this is the part that caught my eye.
05SPEAKERThe rollout of the upgrade to Windows 10 devices
07SPEAKERalready in use today will begin in 2022
11SPEAKERthrough the first half of the year.
13SPEAKER- So that's in line with what they do right now
15SPEAKERwith Windows 10, major Windows 10 updates.
17SPEAKER- The semi-annual feature updates get spread,
20SPEAKERlike that upgrade rollout is spread
21SPEAKERover like what, two, three months?
23SPEAKER- More than that sometimes.
24SPEAKERLike I didn't get 20H2 until I mashed the button
27SPEAKERand forced it a few weeks ago.
29SPEAKER- Whichever one had Windows Subsystem 4 Linux 2 in it
33SPEAKERlast year, was that the 20?
33SPEAKER- That's 21H1 I think.
36SPEAKER- I think they were calling it 2004 at that point.
38SPEAKERBut yeah, like I didn't, I didn't,
39SPEAKERI didn't get that until like three weeks
41SPEAKERbefore the fall update came down.
44SPEAKERI don't know why.
45SPEAKERI think it's compatibility stuff, right?
46SPEAKER- So yeah, they, what they do is they use
48SPEAKERthe different testing rings, the beta and dev channel,
52SPEAKERand they validate hardware on the beta testing rings.
57SPEAKERAnd then once you're, once all the hardware
59SPEAKERin your machine is validated for a particular build,
01SPEAKERthey'll push it out to the builds
02SPEAKERthat have that hardware in it.
04SPEAKER- Right.
04SPEAKER- So like if you have a weird HDMI capture card
07SPEAKERor like the one that always held me back was the HTC,
11SPEAKERthe YGIG wireless Vive connector was a screwball piece
16SPEAKERof hardware that hardly anybody has.
17SPEAKERSo it ended up way down at the bottom of the list.
19SPEAKERAnd you can get stuff really light.
20SPEAKER- I know network mounts have factored into that before
23SPEAKERin terms of incompatibilities.
24SPEAKERLike you always see people when those things come out,
26SPEAKERgo like, I'll just go get the installer.
27SPEAKERYou can do it manually.
28SPEAKERLike what are you waiting for?
29SPEAKERBut it's like, I don't want to run that thing manually
31SPEAKERand then reboot and find that like my network drives
33SPEAKERdon't work anymore.
34SPEAKERLike I can't afford that kind of downtime.
37SPEAKER- Some of that stuff, like I think for all the criticism
41SPEAKERMicrosoft's had with Windows 10 for having updates
43SPEAKERthat accidentally delete everybody's file
45SPEAKERand stuff like that occasionally,
46SPEAKERthe upgrade process has been seamless
48SPEAKERalmost every time I've done it.
49SPEAKERAnd the one time that I had a problem,
51SPEAKERit resolved itself a couple of weeks later.
53SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
54SPEAKERLike waiting for them to push it to me,
56SPEAKERI have not had any problems for some years now.
59SPEAKER- It's free for Windows 10.
01SPEAKER- Yes.
02SPEAKER- People who would license Windows 10s.
03SPEAKER- Yes, if it's that.
04SPEAKERSo like, I guess we're getting into a situation now
06SPEAKERwhere like people who bought Windows 7 keys
08SPEAKERare now going to be upgrading to Windows 11
09SPEAKERoff that same key, right?
10SPEAKER- I am that exact person.
13SPEAKERI mean, Windows 7 or Windows 8 key
17SPEAKERthat is now still good.
18SPEAKER- Yes, Windows 7 is also the last Windows
20SPEAKERthat I paid for as well.
22SPEAKER- So it's, my assumption is that the machines
25SPEAKERthat are shipping in October are probably OEM machines
28SPEAKERand that you can probably buy a retail copy
30SPEAKERif you want for a new computer.
32SPEAKER- That's my assumption as well.
33SPEAKER- And that if you want to like,
34SPEAKERif you want to get it before that,
36SPEAKERyou can probably upgrade to one of the beta or dev rings
38SPEAKERand I mean, you get upgraded to a dev ring right now
40SPEAKERif you have supported hardware.
41SPEAKER- Yes.
42SPEAKER- Now, therein lies the rub.
45SPEAKER- Yeah, I was gonna say the other part of this
47SPEAKERis that the supported hardware list is really weird.
50SPEAKER- It's weird.
50SPEAKERThat seems like the only actual thing
52SPEAKERanybody is talking about
53SPEAKERwith regard to Windows 11 at this point.
55SPEAKER- Well, it's weird 'cause like the hardware list
57SPEAKERis like you need a dual core processor that's one gigahertz
00SPEAKERand, but it also needs to be an Intel eighth gen or newer
04SPEAKERor a Zen 2 or newer, which are like eighth gen core
09SPEAKERare i3, i5, i9, well it's the 8000 series cards.
15SPEAKER- It's the 8700, 8900, 8600.
18SPEAKERSo like I've got a 7700K that I bought.
20SPEAKER- Get fucked, Brad.
21SPEAKER- Yeah, I can't run Windows 11 on my main computer,
24SPEAKERwhich is like, that is what a four year old CPU
26SPEAKERor maybe five now?
28SPEAKER- The eighth gen core launched four years ago.
30SPEAKER- Almost exactly four years, 3.75 years ago,
33SPEAKERsomething like that.
34SPEAKER- Okay, so I think this must be a 2016 CPU
36SPEAKERthat I've got at 7700, but yeah, it won't work.
38SPEAKERThat's Ryzen's in the 2000 and the one in 2000 range.
42SPEAKERLike you need a Ryzen 3000 or newer too on the MD side.
46SPEAKER- It's theoretically, those chips are only 23 months old.
48SPEAKER- Yeah, like that's crazy.
49SPEAKERLike on paper, that is like,
51SPEAKERwhen you dig into the reasons for this,
53SPEAKERit starts to sound a little more sensible,
54SPEAKERbut like on paper, you know, three, four year old CPUs
58SPEAKERnot being able to run the next Windows
00SPEAKERsounds completely bananas.
02SPEAKER- Well, when you look at Microsoft's legacy
04SPEAKERof supporting things indefinitely, yes.
06SPEAKER- Especially in that context.
08SPEAKER- Also when the requirements are, hey, you need a dual core,
11SPEAKERand I think there was only one or two
13SPEAKERCore i8 dual cores made.
15SPEAKER- Right.
16SPEAKER- Like they were only one or two SKUs that were,
18SPEAKERnot vendor SKUs, but like one or,
20SPEAKERif you go to arc.intel and look at all the list of Core i8,
24SPEAKERwhich I did before the show,
24SPEAKERI can only find one that was a dual core
26SPEAKERand it's like a screwball mobile part.
28SPEAKER- Interesting.
28SPEAKER- In like palm tops or something, something really screwy.
31SPEAKER- I mean, you know, the eye catching headline out of all this
34SPEAKERis like Microsoft is selling Surface devices right now
37SPEAKERthat will not run Windows 11.
39SPEAKER- Yeah, wow, really?
40SPEAKER- Yes, there are surfaces with CPUs in them
43SPEAKERthat are still in the active product line
45SPEAKERthat will not run Windows 11 because of this requirement.
47SPEAKER- So, okay, when we talked about this before,
50SPEAKERwe talked about on the Discord,
52SPEAKERI explicitly said, I really hope that Microsoft
55SPEAKERat some point in the future, like let's old things die
00SPEAKERand comes out and makes a new version of Windows, right?
04SPEAKERActually uses underlying technologies
05SPEAKERthat exist in modern hardware
07SPEAKERand will work like a new version of Windows.
09SPEAKER- Right, well, that seems like what they're doing,
11SPEAKERbut this is- - Good luck guys, they did it.
12SPEAKER- This is the casualty of that is
14SPEAKERthat your four year old computer won't run it.
17SPEAKER- So now the last time they did this,
18SPEAKERit was called Windows Vista
19SPEAKERand they had to try to take two stabs at it
21SPEAKERbefore they got it right.
23SPEAKERAnd they ended up pulling out all of the interesting things
25SPEAKERthat made Windows Vista look cool and seem cool
28SPEAKERand just released like a really badly performing
31SPEAKER3D accelerated kind of on a small percentage of the hardware
35SPEAKERthat was available at the day.
36SPEAKER- Dude, not to go off on a tangent here,
39SPEAKERbut did you know there's like a Longhorn
40SPEAKERfan community out there?
42SPEAKER- Oh yeah.
42SPEAKER(laughing)
43SPEAKER- You of all people would know that.
45SPEAKER- If you would like to talk to the people
46SPEAKERwho think that WinFS was killed unjustly,
48SPEAKERthey will at length let you know the pros and cons
52SPEAKERthat no modern file system could possibly compare
56SPEAKERto the silent and completely non-performant majesty
59SPEAKERof Windows FS.
00SPEAKER- Like I'm pretty sure you can find a subreddit out there
02SPEAKERof people who are still finding ways
04SPEAKERto get like dev builds of Longhorn running
06SPEAKERand like are running that as their daily driver.
08SPEAKER- Look, we don't need to talk about the things
09SPEAKERyou can find on subreddit.
10SPEAKER- It's incredible to me.
12SPEAKER- But so, okay.
15SPEAKER- So the Longhorn was the kind of aborted,
17SPEAKERlike very ambitious Windows reboot that Vista replaced,
20SPEAKERto be clear.
21SPEAKER- Longhorn essentially, the team that made
23SPEAKERthe first version of Longhorn, which was the code name
25SPEAKERfor the first version of Vista ended up working on SP2.
28SPEAKERAnd then they shit canned all of that
29SPEAKERand redid it for what became Vista.
31SPEAKER- Yes.
32SPEAKER- And then they messed up by doing a bunch
33SPEAKERof really cool 3D compositing stuff on the desktop
35SPEAKERthat none of the Intel integrated graphics
38SPEAKERthat were on the market at the time could support.
40SPEAKER- Yeah.
42SPEAKER- And also the machines didn't have enough memory to run.
44SPEAKERAnyway, it doesn't matter.
45SPEAKERThe point is, I don't think that we're looking
47SPEAKERat another Vista situation here.
49SPEAKERI could be wrong, but this feels better than that.
51SPEAKERThe things that they're doing,
52SPEAKERso the big deal is you have to have a TPM 2.0 module.
55SPEAKER- Yeah, well there are two big deals here,
56SPEAKERbut that is the first one for sure.
58SPEAKER- And you have to have support
59SPEAKERfor like actual virtualization hardware,
01SPEAKERwhich pretty much everything made in the last 10 years
03SPEAKERshould have, I don't, I mean,
05SPEAKERI'm sure there's some low end CPUs that don't,
07SPEAKERbecause Intel uses or AMD uses that as a marketing,
10SPEAKERas a way to differentiate products for marketing purposes.
15SPEAKERBut, yeah.
17SPEAKER- Well, hang on.
18SPEAKERThe virtualization stuff you're talking about is,
21SPEAKERI thought that was why these CPU cutoffs were so aggressive.
24SPEAKERIs that not the case?
26SPEAKER- No, the virtualization cutoffs
27SPEAKERbecause of the TPM 2.0 is my understanding.
29SPEAKER- Are you sure?
30SPEAKER- The generational cutoff is because TPM 2.0 is relatively new.
34SPEAKER- Hmm, okay.
35SPEAKERI thought the CPU is older than like three, four years
37SPEAKERbeing axed was because of this virtualization
39SPEAKERthey're doing for security under the hood.
42SPEAKER- No, the virtual is, yeah, yes, that is correct.
44SPEAKERBut that's what I'm, hold on.
46SPEAKER- Can I say the things?
47SPEAKERVirtualization based security.
49SPEAKER- Yeah. - VBS.
51SPEAKER- I like to get based.
52SPEAKER- Virtualization based security
53SPEAKERand hypervisor protected code integrity.
56SPEAKERAre the two, maybe I misread.
59SPEAKERThere's a story on Tech Republic.
00SPEAKERWe should put it in the notes.
02SPEAKER- Yeah. - Where they dug into this.
03SPEAKERThey talked to like Microsoft's head of security
04SPEAKERabout this stuff.
05SPEAKERAnd it sounds like those virtualization technologies,
08SPEAKERI was under the impression that's why
11SPEAKERthese CPUs were being cut off at the knees.
14SPEAKER- I could be wrong, but my understanding is that
15SPEAKERthe virtualization stuff is essentially unchanged
17SPEAKERfor the last like 10 years.
18SPEAKER- Okay, maybe I'm misunderstanding here.
20SPEAKERAnyway, the point is they are virtualizing
22SPEAKERa lot of the security stuff under the hood in Windows 11.
26SPEAKER- Yes. - Sandboxing it.
27SPEAKERSandboxing it from the rest of the OS.
29SPEAKER- Yes.
30SPEAKER- Which you seem skeptical about before this.
32SPEAKERI'm open to the argument.
36SPEAKER- I think it depends on what,
39SPEAKERas always with this hardware encryption stuff
42SPEAKERand the sandboxing,
43SPEAKERit depends on what gets access to that, right?
45SPEAKERIf they're using it for antivirus and firewalls
47SPEAKERand security stuff, fantastic, I love that.
50SPEAKERNow there's also a whole multiple classes
53SPEAKERof categories of software that want access,
56SPEAKERlike rootkit level access to the kernel for Windows,
59SPEAKERlike DRM for video games, like your,
03SPEAKERwhat's the bad one that everybody hates?
08SPEAKER- There's a lot.
09SPEAKER- Okay, anyway, so there's a bunch of DRMs
12SPEAKERthat essentially root your system to prevent--
15SPEAKER- To Denuvo? - Denuvo, yeah.
17SPEAKER- That was one of them.
18SPEAKER- That's the one that everybody bitches about.
20SPEAKERThere's anti-cheat for games,
23SPEAKERlike Riot has an anti-cheat that runs
24SPEAKERat a ridiculously low level for video game nonsense,
28SPEAKERbut also a bunch of other stuff does that too.
31SPEAKERSo if Microsoft is giving Riot root level access
35SPEAKERto my computer in a virtualized environment
37SPEAKERthat I can't even access,
38SPEAKERI'm not super enthusiastic about that.
40SPEAKER- Okay, when you put it that way, I'm not either.
41SPEAKERI didn't consider the idea of third parties getting access
44SPEAKERat that level through this conduit.
45SPEAKER- Yeah, and if Denuvo gets that, fuck that.
48SPEAKER- That sounds terrible, okay.
50SPEAKERBut reading this, I was under the impression
52SPEAKERthis was just Microsoft itself.
54SPEAKER- So that's the part that I haven't found any information.
57SPEAKERNobody's talked about it.
58SPEAKER- Well, this is all very new.
59SPEAKERThis Tech Republic story, this interview just came out
01SPEAKERlike yesterday or the day before, I think.
04SPEAKER- Yeah, and here's the thing.
05SPEAKERWe got to the bad part before we got to the good.
06SPEAKERThe good part is very good.
10SPEAKERSo a lot of the ways, I am not a security expert at all,
15SPEAKERso I'm gonna mess this up, and I apologize
16SPEAKERto the people who are actually good at this
18SPEAKER'cause it's a really hard job,
19SPEAKERand I apologize for grossly oversimplifying.
23SPEAKERBut when you talk about a malware
25SPEAKERthat essentially is like ransomware,
27SPEAKERbasically what it does is somebody comes in,
30SPEAKERgets low-level access to your machine,
32SPEAKERand then uses the hardware encryption stuff on the machine,
34SPEAKERor just software encryption to zip up the hard drive,
37SPEAKERput a password on it that you're never gonna be able
38SPEAKERto crack until the heat death of the universe,
40SPEAKERand pops up a thing on the screen that says,
42SPEAKER"Yo, if you want this computer back,
44SPEAKERsend some Bitcoin to this address."
47SPEAKERNow, again, gross oversimplification.
51SPEAKERThe gist is what this is doing is preventing anything
57SPEAKERthat's unauthorized and not signed by a vendor
00SPEAKERthat Microsoft verifies and trusts
03SPEAKERfrom accessing the low-level parts of the PC world
08SPEAKERthat would allow you to access the entire drive
10SPEAKERand do this thing, right?
11SPEAKERSo it's, and it's giving your antivirus and firewalls
15SPEAKERand all of that stuff a protected space to operate from
18SPEAKERthat prevents them from,
20SPEAKER'cause like phase one of these ransomware attacks
23SPEAKERis often disable all of the corporate antivirus shit
27SPEAKERthat everybody has installed
27SPEAKERin their computers from corporate IT.
29SPEAKERAnd then once we've turned that off,
31SPEAKERthen we can do whatever the hell we want.
32SPEAKERBut if that stuff's running
33SPEAKERin a protected virtual environment, it's harder to hit.
35SPEAKER- Right.
36SPEAKER- Nothing's impossible ever, but you know,
38SPEAKERit's just another layer of protection if they do it right,
42SPEAKERand if there's no horrible flaws.
44SPEAKERThe TPM2 stuff, by the way, came out like two,
46SPEAKERthree years ago, so it's relatively new.
47SPEAKER- Yeah, do we need to talk about that real fast?
49SPEAKERThe trusted platform module?
51SPEAKER- Yeah, it's a key chain.
53SPEAKERIt's like, it's a dumb key chain
54SPEAKERwhere you can put secure files on a piece of hardware
57SPEAKERthat lives on the PC
58SPEAKERand is outside of the storage on the drive.
01SPEAKERSo it's literally either a standalone,
03SPEAKERlike little USB dongle that you jam
05SPEAKERinto the USB motherboard ports,
07SPEAKERor it lives on a chip that's soldered to the board.
10SPEAKER- Right, and we use a dumb,
11SPEAKERyou're not passing a value judgment.
12SPEAKERYou're saying like it does not-
14SPEAKER- It has no logic.
15SPEAKER- It has no logic attached to it.
16SPEAKERIt is just a simple receptacle.
19SPEAKERIt is a place to store keys that is outside of the OS
22SPEAKERand is accessible at a very low level.
25SPEAKER- Yeah, I think I saw you can like add a TPM2 boards
28SPEAKERthat don't have it.
28SPEAKERLike a lot of them will literally plug
30SPEAKERinto like one of the USB headers.
32SPEAKER- Yeah, so those little eight or 10 pin USB headers,
35SPEAKERyou can get those, they're like 20 bucks.
37SPEAKER- Yes, but ironically, if you need to add a TPM manually,
40SPEAKERyou probably also have a PC old enough
41SPEAKERthat it may not be on the supported list anyway.
44SPEAKER- Well, but I mean, the actual specs,
46SPEAKERlike the clock speed and memory requirements
48SPEAKERand stuff are not super aggressive,
50SPEAKERso maybe that's- - No, no, no,
51SPEAKERI'm talking about this arbitrary CPU cutoff.
53SPEAKERSo I dug this out of that Tech Republic story,
55SPEAKERjust to clarify, we were talking about that before.
57SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
58SPEAKER- So Intel eighth generation CPUs, AMD Zen 2,
01SPEAKERand Qualcomm 7 and 8 series,
03SPEAKERlike those are the ones that work.
04SPEAKER- Those are ARM chips, yeah.
06SPEAKER- Have the right hardware features
07SPEAKERfor security, reliability, and performance.
09SPEAKERThey also have full Windows 11 support, okay?
12SPEAKER- Okay.
13SPEAKER- Here's the part where we were conflicted.
15SPEAKERWhile seventh generation Intel and AMD Zen CPUs
20SPEAKERhave the hardware features,
22SPEAKERthey have what Microsoft described to us
23SPEAKERas quote, "limited support."
26SPEAKERSo one of the things the Windows Insider releases
28SPEAKERof Windows 11 will show
29SPEAKERis exactly which of those earlier processors
31SPEAKERwill deliver a good enough experience to be supported, so.
34SPEAKER- So is this virtualization or is it TPM or do we not know?
37SPEAKER- That sounds like the virtualization stuff
39SPEAKERis what they're talking about there.
40SPEAKERBut so I don't know if we are jumping the gun here,
43SPEAKERbut they have just,
44SPEAKERand part of this I think is the outcry over the CPU thing.
47SPEAKERThey have just relaxed the requirements quite a bit
49SPEAKERon the Insider, the dev ring.
51SPEAKER- Yeah, but the Insider requirement relaxing
54SPEAKERexplicitly says when this goes final,
57SPEAKERyou will no longer have access to these builds.
58SPEAKERSo you'll have to roll back to Windows 10.
00SPEAKER- There's no guarantee that the like 7700, 6700 chips
03SPEAKERare going to get support in the end that may well stay.
06SPEAKER- I mean, I'm gonna say this as somebody who's sitting here
09SPEAKERlooking at a bunch of supported machines.
12SPEAKERIt sucks if you have a machine that's not supported,
15SPEAKERyou're not, it doesn't matter.
17SPEAKER- Well.
17SPEAKER- No, no, no, I'm saying just run Windows, like I'm,
21SPEAKERthis is the first time in my life
23SPEAKERI've ever not been, had to upgrade to Windows
25SPEAKERthe moment that the new one's available.
27SPEAKER- Yeah.
28SPEAKER- I'm very excited about this.
29SPEAKER- I see.
30SPEAKER- 'Cause I can tell you it makes, it is like this is,
33SPEAKERthis is inside baseball nonsense,
35SPEAKERbut like having to run beta-ass Windows is--
39SPEAKER- Oh yeah, God.
40SPEAKER- A year, one year out of every two or three sucks.
45SPEAKERYou know, I have always, I have long been so jealous
47SPEAKERof you getting to test every GPU that comes out
49SPEAKERand talk to Microsoft, I'm such a fucking nerd
52SPEAKERabout this stuff that I thought it was super cool
54SPEAKERthat you got to do this all day long,
56SPEAKERbut when you put it that way, if I had to run
58SPEAKERunfinished-ass Windows all the time,
00SPEAKERI don't think I would be very happy about it.
01SPEAKER- Yeah, like let me tell you about the time
03SPEAKERthat I was trying to edit the podcast on a deadline
05SPEAKERand I'd just installed Windows 10, early-ass Windows 10
10SPEAKERand Adobe was like, yo, we only support Windows
13SPEAKERup to Windows 8, do you need to get a current version
15SPEAKERof Windows to do this?
17SPEAKERYeah, it's not, there's pros and cons.
19SPEAKER- That does not sound fun.
21SPEAKER- And also with the rise of NVMe SSDs and stuff like that,
25SPEAKERit's a lot harder to dual boot than it used to be
27SPEAKERbecause Windows, you know, it's weird now.
30SPEAKER- Bootloader stuff has also just generally gotten
32SPEAKERmore complicated, it seems like.
34SPEAKER- Yeah, the penalty for failure
37SPEAKERis extraordinarily high right now.
38SPEAKER- Yes, also, so, I mean, part and parcel with this
41SPEAKERis that they announced that Windows 10
42SPEAKERis end of lifing in October, 2025.
44SPEAKER- So you have four years to upgrade your computer.
47SPEAKER- That still seems kind of aggressive to me.
50SPEAKER- They'll push it back, they always do.
52SPEAKER- Okay, okay.
53SPEAKER- Like didn't they end up with supporting Windows 7
54SPEAKERa lot longer than they said they would?
56SPEAKER- They supported Windows XP until like three years ago,
58SPEAKERit's insane.
59SPEAKER- Well, XP I feel like is an edge case.
01SPEAKER- Look, it'll be fine, don't worry about it.
03SPEAKER- Okay, okay.
05SPEAKER- So the other thing about this hypervisor stuff
07SPEAKERthat I didn't get to is that they actively say
10SPEAKERit's gonna be disabled in certain regions
11SPEAKERbecause of anti-cheating games,
13SPEAKERincluding China and Korea.
14SPEAKER- Okay.
15SPEAKER- So presumably there's enough games there
16SPEAKERthat are popular enough and cheating is such a problem
19SPEAKERthat like they assume that a certain percentage
22SPEAKERof enough PCs have games installed
24SPEAKERthat they're just gonna not run this hypervisor stuff
26SPEAKERat all in Korea and China.
28SPEAKER- Okay, so very clear that Windows 11 will function
30SPEAKERjust fine without that stuff.
32SPEAKER- Yeah, it's a security feature, it's a bonus.
36SPEAKERThey also say you can disable it via registry key
38SPEAKERfor high performance gaming PCs and the like.
40SPEAKER- Interesting.
41SPEAKER- I wonder what like typically running stuff
43SPEAKERin a hypervisor has a real performance impact
46SPEAKERon the entire machine
47SPEAKERbecause of the way scheduling threads works
49SPEAKERand I wonder if that's what's happening here.
52SPEAKERSo we'll see.
54SPEAKER- For one, like Windows CPU benchmarks
56SPEAKERwill actually be relevant again
57SPEAKERfor the first time in some time.
59SPEAKER- Yeah, kind of, it's interesting.
01SPEAKERShould we talk about the PC health check app for a minute?
04SPEAKER'Cause this is a weird, this won't matter in like six months
07SPEAKERso you can tune out if you don't care, but it was weird.
11SPEAKERThey usually, when there's a new version of Windows,
14SPEAKEReven for insiders, they have a little tool that's like,
15SPEAKERyo, is your computer ready for the new version of Windows
17SPEAKERand you run it and it's like,
18SPEAKERyeah, you can totally upgrade right now.
20SPEAKER- But generally you don't even need to download that, right?
21SPEAKERBecause like if your computer is less than 10 years old,
23SPEAKERthe answer is always yes.
25SPEAKER- Probably, yes.
25SPEAKERI mean, sometimes if you have weird hardware,
28SPEAKERit's worth doing.
28SPEAKERLike if you have like a microscope
29SPEAKERor something like that from your computer, who knows?
31SPEAKEROr like an old printer.
33SPEAKERSo apparently like most everybody who installed this app,
37SPEAKERit was like, no, you can't run Windows.
39SPEAKERAnd it did it because at first,
41SPEAKERif you had a TPM2 module on your motherboard
43SPEAKERand it was disabled in the BIOS,
45SPEAKERwhich most normal people who build computers do
47SPEAKERout of habit because you don't, who fucking cares?
52SPEAKERIt failed.
53SPEAKER- Right.
55SPEAKERAnd then that led to a giant wave of blog articles saying
57SPEAKERlike, here's how to enable TPM in your BIOS
59SPEAKERso that thing won't fail anymore.
00SPEAKER- Yeah, so now it's impossible to search for Windows 11
03SPEAKERand TPM get any usable information at all.
06SPEAKERThe second update to this gave more context
08SPEAKERabout how to enable the TPM module,
11SPEAKERbut then it failed in other interesting ways.
15SPEAKERAnd then they basically said, look, we're gonna pull this
18SPEAKERand we're gonna send something out better,
19SPEAKERwhich I assume means they're gonna look
21SPEAKERat like hardware strings and make a list
23SPEAKERof all the motherboards that have TPM2 modules
25SPEAKERand identify from the driver strings.
27SPEAKERI don't know, it's weird.
29SPEAKER- Do you think whoever launched that tool
31SPEAKERhad a bad day at Microsoft?
33SPEAKER- Look, I feel, I don't, I wonder.
39SPEAKERSo from talking to people who've been responsible
41SPEAKERfor launching other versions of Windows,
44SPEAKERI feel like they don't really, they just assume
46SPEAKERthat there's gonna be millions of people pissed off
48SPEAKERat them no matter what they do.
50SPEAKER- It's just, it's priced in.
51SPEAKER- It's just the cost of doing business in a space
53SPEAKERwhere billions of people use your operating system
55SPEAKERon such a screwy list of hardware.
58SPEAKER- Fair.
59SPEAKER- Like you think about on iOS, like on iOS,
00:02SPEAKERthey have five or 10 phones a year
00:04SPEAKERacross a handful of different providers.
00:07SPEAKERSo you're looking at maybe a thousand devices
00:09SPEAKERall told that support a new version of iOS,
00:11SPEAKERiPads, iPhones, all that stuff.
00:15SPEAKERThere are companies that have a thousand different devices
00:18SPEAKERdeploying Windows on a day-to-day.
00:19SPEAKER- Sure.
00:20SPEAKER- Yeah, so it's like people are gonna be pissed.
00:23SPEAKER- Yes.
00:25SPEAKER- And I also, this may have changed over time,
00:27SPEAKERbut in the old days, they looked at the people
00:30SPEAKERwho build their own PCs as like weird perverts
00:32SPEAKERwho are out on the edge cases of society.
00:35SPEAKERAnd like, if they're pissed off, who cares?
00:37SPEAKER- Oh man, is that our ultimate fate?
00:40SPEAKERTo just be regarded by younger generations
00:42SPEAKERas weird perverts on the edge of society?
00:46SPEAKERI mean, computer-touchers, they touch their computer.
00:50SPEAKER- My daughter's really interested in like working,
00:52SPEAKERshe helped me install a video card the other day.
00:54SPEAKER- Wow.
00:55SPEAKER- I was like, oh, this is really fun.
00:56SPEAKER- Okay, cool, yeah.
00:57SPEAKERI mean, there's definitely that stereotype
00:58SPEAKERabout younger people only knowing how to work a touch screen
01:01SPEAKERand et cetera, et cetera, which I feel like--
01:03SPEAKER- Yeah, she likes playing, she, yeah.
01:05SPEAKERShe has a gamepad.
01:06SPEAKER- It's probably overblown.
01:08SPEAKER- Probably.
01:08SPEAKER- I assume.
01:09SPEAKER- Depends, look, if your kid only wants to use a touchscreen,
01:11SPEAKERyou've fucked up by not introducing him to fun games.
01:14SPEAKER- That's the thing, I'm not talking about a controller
01:16SPEAKERor some other, this came up on the Discord a few nights ago.
01:19SPEAKERThe argument was more about like people
01:20SPEAKERwho know how to build a PC versus people
01:23SPEAKERwho only use a tablet and a phone or whatever.
01:24SPEAKERBut like, my assumption based on nothing but my gut
01:27SPEAKERis that the same number of people
01:29SPEAKERare probably still finding their way
01:30SPEAKERto building PCs as there has always been.
01:33SPEAKERIt's just-- - I would assume so.
01:34SPEAKER- The people who are not doing that
01:35SPEAKERare now using touch screens where in the '80s,
01:37SPEAKERthey were using nothing.
01:38SPEAKERThey were not touching technology at all.
01:40SPEAKER- Yeah.
01:41SPEAKER- Now everybody touches some level of technology
01:43SPEAKERwhere in the past, like, do you get what I'm saying?
01:46SPEAKER- I would say that the number's probably increasing
01:48SPEAKERbecause of the number of people
01:50SPEAKERwho are exposed to technology is so much higher now
01:52SPEAKERthat there's probably just a trickle down
01:53SPEAKERof new people coming into the hobby as a result.
01:58SPEAKER- I mean, I've just anecdotally looking at the internet,
02:00SPEAKERI feel like the building PC culture
02:03SPEAKERhas never been more robust than it is right now, right?
02:06SPEAKER- I will say in the Windows 10 era,
02:08SPEAKERwhen I've talked to Microsoft about stuff,
02:10SPEAKERI don't, we don't communicate all that much anymore,
02:13SPEAKERit turns out.
02:14SPEAKERBut when we did, they were much more interested
02:16SPEAKERin the consumer perspective than before
02:18SPEAKERbecause Windows as a service
02:19SPEAKERis an inherently more consumer focused product
02:23SPEAKERthan like, say, Windows Vista for, you know,
02:26SPEAKERWindows for work groups was or whatever.
02:31SPEAKERYeah, Windows is weird.
02:33SPEAKER- Yeah.
02:35SPEAKER- I don't know.
02:35SPEAKER- It seems like good weird for the most part though,
02:37SPEAKERit seems interesting, it's getting interesting.
02:39SPEAKER- Like I said, like whether I think this is good weird
02:41SPEAKERor bad weird is gonna entirely depend
02:43SPEAKERon who they let out into that hypervisor.
02:45SPEAKER- Yeah.
02:46SPEAKER- 'Cause like if Denuvo's in there,
02:48SPEAKERthen I'm significantly less interested
02:49SPEAKERthan if it's, you know, McAfee and Norton
02:54SPEAKERand Kaspersky and all those folks.
02:57SPEAKER- Yeah, also it kind of calls into question
02:59SPEAKERlike what happens to like, you know, open source projects
03:01SPEAKERor our friends, Nersoft or stuff like that.
03:04SPEAKER- Yeah, that's the part we forgot.
03:06SPEAKERThis is the end of unsigned drivers for Windows.
03:08SPEAKER- Oh boy.
03:09SPEAKER- Like period, there's no getting around that,
03:12SPEAKERI think under this new regime.
03:13SPEAKER- Right.
03:14SPEAKER- 'Cause they're wiggle testing everything now
03:15SPEAKERand that means you have to get it signed
03:17SPEAKERand you have to submit it.
03:17SPEAKER- Right.
03:18SPEAKER- And there are big questions about cost
03:20SPEAKERfor things like open source projects
03:22SPEAKERand small hardware businesses
03:24SPEAKERand people who make the weird shit
03:26SPEAKERthat makes PCs fun and good and useful.
03:29SPEAKER- Like that search app I always talk about everything
03:33SPEAKERfor Windows, which is incredible.
03:34SPEAKERBut like that thing runs an indexing service
03:36SPEAKERand I don't know where it would leave.
03:37SPEAKERAnd that thing is developed by a guy
03:39SPEAKERas far as I know, it's free, it's freeware.
03:41SPEAKER- Is it signed?
03:42SPEAKER- I don't know, maybe?
03:44SPEAKER- So it often, a way to tell,
03:47SPEAKERlike often stuff that you can install
03:49SPEAKERthat's not a portable app that lives
03:50SPEAKERin like your desktop folder or your documents folder
03:52SPEAKERor whatever, if you can install it
03:54SPEAKERwithout having to do a UAC prompt,
03:56SPEAKERlike click the is it okay, like the screen goes gray
03:59SPEAKERand it's like do you wanna install this thing?
04:01SPEAKERThat means it's probably signed
04:03SPEAKERby an authority that Microsoft recognizes.
04:04SPEAKER- Okay, you have to opt into the indexing service,
04:06SPEAKERit's not mandatory.
04:07SPEAKER- Yeah.
04:08SPEAKER- For that one.
04:09SPEAKER- But yeah, the driver thing is weird.
04:12SPEAKERThere's a ton of like Aurora, the utility that runs,
04:17SPEAKERthat's like the translation layer
04:19SPEAKERfor all the different vendors who make light up keyboards
04:22SPEAKERso that like your Overwatch that only supports
04:25SPEAKERthe Razor API will light up my Logitech keyboard
04:28SPEAKERis an unsigned driver written by an open source project.
04:32SPEAKERSo like if they have to suddenly raise $5,000 a year
04:35SPEAKERto submit shit to Wiggle, then that piece of software
04:38SPEAKERis going to be valueless at that point, which is a bummer.
04:40SPEAKER- I think we have to stop this podcast,
04:42SPEAKERI can't hear you say the word Wiggle again.
04:45SPEAKER- What, you don't like the Windows hardware
04:47SPEAKERqualification lab, let me tell you Brad,
04:50SPEAKERI went to a Microsoft software developer,
04:52SPEAKERhardware developers conference one time
04:53SPEAKERand I'd never heard anybody pronounce WHQL before.
04:56SPEAKER- Right.
04:57SPEAKER- And it took me two full days
04:59SPEAKERbefore I realized what the fuck Wiggle was.
05:01SPEAKER- That's exactly the experience,
05:02SPEAKERlike I've seen that term for like going on 20 years now
05:05SPEAKERas you know, 'cause Nvidia has put out
05:07SPEAKERWHQL drivers for that long.
05:08SPEAKER- Love the Wiggle.
05:09SPEAKER- But that's how you know that I never actually worked
05:11SPEAKERin the tech press like you did,
05:12SPEAKERevery time you say Wiggle, I like,
05:15SPEAKERI feel a shiver up my spine.
05:16SPEAKER- That was in like 2007,
05:17SPEAKERI'd been doing it for 10 years almost at that point.
05:20SPEAKERAnyway, Microsoft loves acronyms,
05:23SPEAKERthat's the TLDR here.
05:24SPEAKERNow I'm gonna go check out those hot nude corporations
05:27SPEAKERand also thank our wonderful patrons
05:29SPEAKERon our listener supported show.
05:31SPEAKERBrad and Will made a tech pod.
05:34SPEAKERAs always, thank you all in the Patreon,
05:37SPEAKERwhether you are at the hangout in the Patreon level
05:40SPEAKERor one of our executive producers,
05:42SPEAKERwe'll talk about in a sec, you all are awesome.
05:44SPEAKER- The Discord this week has been, I think--
05:47SPEAKER- Discord's been great.
05:48SPEAKER- We've had a really good week in the Discord, right?
05:50SPEAKER- Yes, yes.
05:51SPEAKER- Like there were a lot of good,
05:53SPEAKERlike not a lot of conversations about things
05:54SPEAKERwe don't wanna talk about,
05:55SPEAKERa lot of really good conversations about things
05:57SPEAKERwe do wanna talk about.
05:58SPEAKER- Some fun high level thought experiments
06:00SPEAKERand also like a lot of talk about
06:02SPEAKERthe fast food chain cookout today, which--
06:05SPEAKER- I don't, I've never been to a cookout.
06:06SPEAKER- I also have never, apparently as former residents
06:09SPEAKERof the South, like we are aberrations
06:10SPEAKERfor never having been to a cookout.
06:11SPEAKER- I think it didn't exist when we lived there.
06:13SPEAKER- That's exactly what I said, was that I was vaguely aware
06:16SPEAKERof it in Eastern North Carolina when I lived out there,
06:18SPEAKERbut it was not close enough to us,
06:20SPEAKERbut apparently they're all over the place now and--
06:23SPEAKER- Well, let's see, we also, some patrons at different levels
06:28SPEAKERget access to the once a month Patreon exclusive episode.
06:32SPEAKERThis month we had so much fun turning Qs into As
06:35SPEAKERthat we just kept doing it.
06:37SPEAKERAnd we turned way more Qs into way more As.
06:39SPEAKER- Except most of the Qs were pretty questionable.
06:43SPEAKERI mean, look, they were questionable provenance for sure.
06:46SPEAKERAnd they were definitely not tech related,
06:49SPEAKERbut we talked about, I don't know, we talked about,
06:52SPEAKERlook, things got a little weird yesterday
06:54SPEAKERwhen we recorded that show, Brad.
06:55SPEAKER- Yes, sure enough though, as predicted,
06:57SPEAKERsomebody checked your math on the how many pancakes
07:00SPEAKERwould it take to shingle a doghouse question.
07:01SPEAKER- Did I get it right?
07:02SPEAKER- I didn't check, I didn't actually compare the numbers.
07:04SPEAKERI was just happy to see somebody did the work.
07:07SPEAKER- Well, now I wanna know.
07:08SPEAKER- Well, it's on the Discord, you'll have to go--
07:10SPEAKER- I can't, I can't, okay, okay.
07:14SPEAKER- But as always, so if you wanna find out
07:16SPEAKERhow to join the Patreon and join the Discord
07:19SPEAKERand join the conversation and help support,
07:21SPEAKERlike I said, our 100% listener supported show.
07:24SPEAKER- You make this possible.
07:26SPEAKER- You can by going to patreon.com/techpod.
07:29SPEAKERAgain, that is patreon.com/techpod.
07:34SPEAKERAnd as always, thank you to our executive producer level
07:36SPEAKERpatrons, Andrew Slosky, The Bunny Fiend, Jacob Chappell,
07:40SPEAKERJoel Krauska, Twinkle Twinkie, David Allen, and James Kamik.
07:44SPEAKERThank you all so much.
07:45SPEAKER- Thank you, thank you, thank you.
07:46SPEAKER- If you can't support the Patreon, that's also totally fine.
07:49SPEAKERJust tell a friend.
07:50SPEAKER- Listen to the show.
07:51SPEAKER- Let some people know, post a Facebook message.
07:53SPEAKERHey, tag your favorite uncle who's really into building
07:55SPEAKERcomputers in his basement, or tag somebody who you think
07:59SPEAKERmight like a little more tech in their life.
08:01SPEAKER- Spread the word, download the podcast
08:03SPEAKERon like 12 different devices.
08:04SPEAKER- I don't know, that doesn't, we don't have ads.
08:07SPEAKERThat doesn't help, it just makes it worse.
08:09SPEAKER- I'm kidding.
08:10SPEAKER- Yeah, Brad?
08:12SPEAKER- Yeah.
08:13SPEAKER- I guess that'll do it.
08:14SPEAKER- Yeah, are you gonna install Windows 11 when it comes out?
08:17SPEAKER- Fuck, when it comes out, yeah, probably, not tomorrow.
08:20SPEAKER- Okay.
08:21SPEAKER- I might just, but now I'm in a weird spot.
08:23SPEAKERI feel like I should like, like I was getting ready
08:25SPEAKERto do a reinstall, which is why we did that episode
08:27SPEAKERa few weeks ago, and now I'm like, shit,
08:29SPEAKERmaybe I should just wait.
08:30SPEAKER- I mean, October might as well be a decade from now,
08:32SPEAKERjust treat yourself.
08:33SPEAKER- I don't wanna have to do two reinstalls, though.
08:36SPEAKER- Treat yourself to a fresh install, man, you deserve it.
08:38SPEAKER- Well, and then I'm gonna have like Windows 10
08:40SPEAKERon one computer, Windows 11 on the other computer,
08:42SPEAKER'cause I'm not gonna put it on the streaming machine.
08:43SPEAKERLike, this is a real, it's a dilly of a pickle.
08:46SPEAKER- Well, we got until 2025 to decide.
08:49SPEAKER- See you all next week, bye, everybody.