00:00SPEAKERBrad, did you know that we live just barely far enough apart
00:02SPEAKERthat we could do the Foucault-Fizzo experiment
00:06SPEAKERto determine the speed of light?
00:08SPEAKER- Okay, the second time you said that out loud,
00:09SPEAKERI understood who you were talking about.
00:12SPEAKER- Ah.
00:13SPEAKER- I'm not trying to impugn your pronunciation
00:15SPEAKERof French surnames.
00:16SPEAKER- I am a perfect pronunciator of names
00:19SPEAKERas is well established.
00:20SPEAKER- Now I have a better idea of who
00:22SPEAKERand what you're talking about,
00:24SPEAKERbut I've never heard of that experiment.
00:25SPEAKERWhat is that?
00:26SPEAKER- So at some point in the indeterminate past,
00:30SPEAKERwhich I probably knew at one point or another,
00:32SPEAKERthese two people independently developed similar experiments
00:35SPEAKERto determine the speed of light by taking a mechanism
00:39SPEAKERthat had mirrors and spinning disks
00:41SPEAKERand prisms and stuff in it, like a brass,
00:45SPEAKERage of brass kind of, like age of wonders,
00:50SPEAKERwhatever, post-Renaissance, pre-industrial revolution,
00:54SPEAKERprobably, I don't know, mechanism
00:57SPEAKERthat if you put far enough away from a source of light,
01:00SPEAKERyou could bounce the light off of the mirrored prism thing
01:04SPEAKERat nighttime and have it reflect back and use that to,
01:07SPEAKERthey both independently use that to pretty accurately,
01:10SPEAKERgiven the scales involved, calculate the speed of light
01:13SPEAKERin the 17 or 1800s maybe, I don't know.
01:17SPEAKER- Okay.
01:18SPEAKER- Welcome to Will's Science Hour.
01:19SPEAKERWill's spurious Science Hour.
01:22SPEAKER- I got to sign up for your class at the Academy of Science.
01:26SPEAKER- Hey, this might be science.
01:27SPEAKERThat's what, welcome to my new podcast.
01:29SPEAKERHey, this might be science.
01:31SPEAKER- Are there a lot of examples of the, you know of,
01:33SPEAKERof the kind of two great minds thought of this thing
01:37SPEAKERmore or less simultaneously?
01:39SPEAKERLike I guess the Newton-Leibniz one is the big one, right?
01:42SPEAKER- The calculus, yeah.
01:43SPEAKER- Like that's the one that even I know from school,
01:45SPEAKERbut like, did that happen a lot?
01:47SPEAKERDo you know of?
01:47SPEAKER- I feel like the Bohr thing.
01:49SPEAKERYeah, I feel like the Bohr thing happened.
01:51SPEAKERBohr did the atomic model
01:54SPEAKERat the same time as somebody else,
01:54SPEAKERbut I don't remember who the other guy was
01:55SPEAKERbecause it turns out something happened.
01:57SPEAKERIt happened a lot.
01:59SPEAKERWhen you're dealing with millions of people
02:01SPEAKERand millions of brains, even in really esoteric stuff,
02:04SPEAKERlike people do the same work at the same time.
02:07SPEAKER- A million monkeys and a million typewriters?
02:10SPEAKER- Yeah.
02:11SPEAKER- Something, something, no, that's not quite,
02:12SPEAKERthat's not the same thing.
02:13SPEAKER- Yeah, eventually you get killed by the Gilmore girls.
02:16SPEAKERThat's exactly it.
02:17SPEAKER- I'm not trying to compare mathematicians and physicists
02:20SPEAKERto simians just for the record.
02:23SPEAKER- Well, but the thing is the math is the same
02:25SPEAKERfor the monkeys and for us, so.
02:27SPEAKER- That's true.
02:28SPEAKER- Yeah, the great simian mathematician is out there.
02:30SPEAKERWe just haven't found them yet.
02:31SPEAKER- It's true, it's the next great breakthrough.
02:33SPEAKER(upbeat music)
02:50SPEAKER(upbeat music continues)
03:07SPEAKER- Welcome to Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod.
03:10SPEAKERI'm Will.
03:10SPEAKER- Hi, I'm Brad.
03:11SPEAKERHello, Will.
03:12SPEAKER- Hello, Brad.
03:13SPEAKERThis is a rare afternoon recording.
03:16SPEAKER- I know, it's the sun.
03:16SPEAKER- Early evening even.
03:17SPEAKER- Well, I started to say the sun is out, but it's not out.
03:19SPEAKERIt's a foggy, damp mess here.
03:21SPEAKER- God, I wish it was foggy.
03:23SPEAKERIt's like 95 degrees in here right now.
03:26SPEAKER- Yeah, but is it dry?
03:27SPEAKER- No, it's humid 95 degrees.
03:30SPEAKER- No, you can keep that one then.
03:31SPEAKER- Yeah, I felt like there's an old Robin Williams joke
03:35SPEAKERabout applying deodorant to your nethers
03:37SPEAKERbecause it's so hot and sweaty.
03:38SPEAKERAnd I feel like I'm in that territory right now.
03:40SPEAKER- But who is there to offend these days?
03:44SPEAKER- Look.
03:45SPEAKER- I mean, I can't speak for your wife and child.
03:49SPEAKER- I mean, they might not be upset, you know.
03:52SPEAKERBrad, they're out of the house.
03:53SPEAKER- Oh, okay then.
03:54SPEAKER- They're having a socially distanced play date
03:57SPEAKERriding scooters in the park in front of a local gym.
04:00SPEAKER- You're free and clear to...
04:02SPEAKER- I'm not even, I'm barely wearing a shirt.
04:05SPEAKER- Smell as much as you want right now.
04:06SPEAKER- My beard is, it's too long for this weather.
04:09SPEAKERThat's the thing that's becoming clear.
04:12SPEAKER- I guess I can assume from that
04:13SPEAKERthat I can infer that you're not wearing
04:15SPEAKERa lot of masks right now.
04:16SPEAKERWe're not putting yourself into a lot of positions
04:18SPEAKERto wear masks because with a beard like that.
04:22SPEAKER- So it's a problem, but I realized yesterday
04:26SPEAKERthat when I took the trash out to the curb
04:28SPEAKERthat that was the furthest I'd gone from the front door
04:31SPEAKERin about, since the last time I took the trash out
04:34SPEAKERto the curb 'cause the week before.
04:36SPEAKER- Okay, now you're in it.
04:37SPEAKER- Well, the thing is there's so many people around here
04:39SPEAKERwalking around not wearing masks anymore.
04:41SPEAKERI don't, it's not, I'm not going out.
04:44SPEAKER- Yes.
04:44SPEAKER- I'm not even gonna go for a walk.
04:45SPEAKERAnd if I go out for walks at night
04:47SPEAKERwhen there aren't as many people out,
04:48SPEAKERwe have mountain lions and coyotes here.
04:50SPEAKERSo no, thank you, sir.
04:51SPEAKER- I think I might rather take my chances with them.
04:54SPEAKER- I mean, look, I literally was looking on Amazon
04:57SPEAKERthe other day to see if you could order bear mace.
05:00SPEAKER'Cause that's what they say.
05:00SPEAKERIf you're going and walking at dusk,
05:02SPEAKERyou carry like chemical mace to blast the mountain lion with
05:06SPEAKERso that it hopefully just maims you instead of kills you.
05:10SPEAKER- One way or another, you got to protect yourself.
05:12SPEAKER- I mean, there's nothing scarier than a 200 pound housecat.
05:15SPEAKER- Yeah, I guess you're right.
05:16SPEAKER- Yeah.
05:17SPEAKERYeah, we're all guinea pigs in that world, Brad.
05:19SPEAKERIt's not good. - Yes, indeed, no.
05:21SPEAKERJust ask my guinea pigs, if they could tell you.
05:25SPEAKERAll right, what are we talking about here?
05:27SPEAKER- So there was an Apple event.
05:28SPEAKERAnd at first we thought we weren't gonna talk about this.
05:32SPEAKERAnd then we talked about it a little bit.
05:33SPEAKERAnd then I went and watched some videos
05:34SPEAKERof what they've added to iOS 14.
05:36SPEAKERI was like, I went from thinking,
05:38SPEAKERyeah, I'll probably update when the operating system
05:40SPEAKERcomes out in the fall to,
05:42SPEAKERwell, I need to get the beta installed on my phone
05:44SPEAKER'cause this looks dope.
05:46SPEAKER- You actually, you started at,
05:47SPEAKERyou were gonna update at 14.1, right?
05:50SPEAKERThat's the standing policy, right?
05:52SPEAKER- My standing policy,
05:53SPEAKERnow that I don't have to update for work is yes,
05:55SPEAKERI will update when it seems like it's not janky
05:58SPEAKERbased on reports from the field.
06:01SPEAKERBut first we have a little bit of a catch up
06:03SPEAKERbecause Western Digital announced their,
06:05SPEAKERwe talked about the shingled drives
06:07SPEAKERat length a couple of weeks ago.
06:10SPEAKERThey have renamed.
06:13SPEAKERSo now if you buy a Western Digital red drive,
06:15SPEAKERas I understand it,
06:16SPEAKERthat can be a shingled drive that is not for ZFS NASes,
06:20SPEAKERbut it's fine for mass storage that doesn't involve ZFS.
06:23SPEAKER- I think we talked about last time,
06:24SPEAKERI did in fact do that very thing, right?
06:26SPEAKER- Yes, exactly.
06:27SPEAKER- I ended up with one of those,
06:28SPEAKERI don't think we've ever even actually fully updated.
06:30SPEAKERI got that thing replaced.
06:32SPEAKER- But you had to go through a special person process.
06:35SPEAKER- Yes, initially I hate doing this.
06:38SPEAKERI hate doing this,
06:39SPEAKERbut this is probably the angriest I have ever been
06:41SPEAKERat a company that I bought a product from.
06:43SPEAKER- I can see that.
06:44SPEAKER- And leveraged my social media presence.
06:48SPEAKERBut my understanding is that at this point,
06:50SPEAKERI mean, they have taken such a drubbing over this
06:52SPEAKERthat I think just about anybody
06:53SPEAKERwho calls their customer support
06:55SPEAKERand raises this specific issue
06:56SPEAKERis gonna get their drive replaced.
06:57SPEAKER- That's what we've been told, yes.
06:58SPEAKER- I mean, there's a straight up class action lawsuit forming.
07:01SPEAKERIt is pretty clear that they have taken their lumps
07:04SPEAKERand figured out that they can't get away with this.
07:07SPEAKER- Brad, is this supposed to be a question episode?
07:08SPEAKERIt is, 'cause this is the last episode of the month.
07:10SPEAKER- Oh, is it supposed to be?
07:12SPEAKERThis is an inopportune time for you to figure that out.
07:15SPEAKER- Shoot.
07:16SPEAKER- Like 10 minutes into the episode.
07:18SPEAKER- I was like, it's the 26th.
07:19SPEAKER- We can't push it off a week, right?
07:20SPEAKERI mean, this stuff is timely.
07:21SPEAKER- Yeah, well, let's do it next week.
07:22SPEAKERIt's fine.
07:23SPEAKEROr maybe we'll do the Patreon episode
07:25SPEAKERas this question episode this month.
07:26SPEAKERIt's, we'll figure it out.
07:28SPEAKER- Better ask the boss man though.
07:29SPEAKERBe sure to work with him.
07:30SPEAKER- We can get, we'll consult the experts.
07:33SPEAKERAnyway, so if you want something that works with,
07:36SPEAKERthe TLDR here is if you want a Western Digital Drive
07:39SPEAKERthat is not shingled and is guaranteed
07:41SPEAKERto work with your NAS drives in ZFS.
07:44SPEAKER- Yeah, or I've heard of like Synology
07:46SPEAKERis also having problems with these SMR drives.
07:49SPEAKERIt's like ZFS is the worst for sure.
07:51SPEAKERBut the word is they should not be used in NAS's period.
07:55SPEAKER- I thought Synology ran FreeNAS.
07:58SPEAKER- No, no, no, they use.
07:59SPEAKER- Oh, really?
08:00SPEAKER- Oh yeah, they use proprietary software.
08:02SPEAKERThere's actually a little like sub community,
08:05SPEAKERa micro community of people who have reverse engineered
08:09SPEAKERthe Synology operating system to run on PCs.
08:11SPEAKERSo you can just install that on any x86 box.
08:15SPEAKERPeople can't see it right now, but your eyes are.
08:17SPEAKER- Oh fuck, that's such a bad idea.
08:21SPEAKERI have a big wooden mallet under my desk
08:22SPEAKERfor just this kind of situation
08:24SPEAKERwhen I need to knock some sense into somebody.
08:26SPEAKERViolence is never the answer.
08:28SPEAKER- Not usually.
08:30SPEAKER- So yeah, red plus is what you want
08:32SPEAKERif you want to not jack up your NAS.
08:34SPEAKER- I love that they have just continued updating
08:35SPEAKERthe same blog post for months at this point.
08:38SPEAKERThey just keep posting new updates to it
08:40SPEAKERafter the initial response was so god awful,
08:43SPEAKERwhich was essentially like,
08:44SPEAKERmaybe you should buy the even more expensive version
08:46SPEAKERof this drive to do the thing
08:47SPEAKERthat it says it's supposed to do.
08:50SPEAKERBut yeah, they're replacing people's drives now.
08:52SPEAKERThe upshot is the WD Red branded drives
08:56SPEAKERare not what you should buy for a NAS anymore, period.
08:59SPEAKERThose are shingled, they're bad for that application.
09:05SPEAKERNow also we should point out
09:07SPEAKERthey've always had this WD Red Pro tier,
09:10SPEAKERwhich is much more expensive.
09:11SPEAKER- Is this three tiers of red drives now?
09:12SPEAKER- There are now, yes.
09:13SPEAKERBut previously it was red and red Pro,
09:15SPEAKERbut even if you bought the red, you were fine
09:17SPEAKERfor a straight up standard NAS.
09:19SPEAKER- What's green for?
09:20SPEAKERIs green for like if you want to archive something
09:21SPEAKERand put it in a fire safe?
09:22SPEAKER- Yeah, I think the greens are the budget drives.
09:25SPEAKERIs that right?
09:26SPEAKEROr are the blues the budget drives?
09:28SPEAKER- Blue and green are both kind of the same.
09:30SPEAKERLook, I don't care.
09:32SPEAKERI'm done putting spinning disks in my normal computer,
09:35SPEAKERI think I have an eight terabyte drive in there right now.
09:38SPEAKERI hope that that's the last one I ever have to have.
09:40SPEAKER- I have resolved that I will never put
09:41SPEAKERanother mechanical drive into my desktop PC.
09:44SPEAKERI'll put them into a network storage thing.
09:46SPEAKERBut anyway, so they have the WD or the Red Pro,
09:50SPEAKERwhich was the super expensive like deluxe version,
09:52SPEAKERbut the regular Reds were supposed to be fine for NASs.
09:55SPEAKERThat is no longer true.
09:56SPEAKERThey have now also rolled out an intermediary Red Plus.
10:01SPEAKER- I hate this.
10:02SPEAKER- So there's Red, Red Plus and Red Pro and Red Plus
10:05SPEAKERis what Red used to be.
10:07SPEAKER- So Red is garbage tier, Red Plus is okay.
10:09SPEAKERRed Pro is probably too expensive for normal people.
10:11SPEAKER- Do not buy Reds, buy Red Plus or better.
10:15SPEAKERI love that they literally just brought back
10:17SPEAKERthe model numbers of the old Reds as the Red Plus.
10:19SPEAKERThat's their solution to this.
10:21SPEAKER- So that some poor bastard has to slap a different sticker
10:23SPEAKERon the front of the box and they call it a day.
10:25SPEAKER- Or maybe take a look at Seagate or Toshiba.
10:29SPEAKER- Oh, well, okay.
10:30SPEAKER- Anyway. - Hey Brad.
10:31SPEAKER- There's progress here.
10:33SPEAKER- Hey, Brad.
10:34SPEAKER- Hello.
10:35SPEAKER- I have something that I wanna talk about.
10:37SPEAKERIt's called Hey, exclamation point.
10:38SPEAKER- Hey. - Hey.
10:40SPEAKER- Hey, can you tell me about Hey,
10:41SPEAKER'cause I've been seeing people complain about this
10:42SPEAKERfor a good amount of time.
10:44SPEAKER- It's been like two weeks.
10:46SPEAKER- Yeah, all I know is that it is related to the App Store
10:49SPEAKERand some crappy Apple policy.
10:51SPEAKER- Yeah, so Hey is a new mail client
10:54SPEAKERfrom the people who make Basecamp,
10:57SPEAKERwhich is a productivity tool for teams and businesses.
11:00SPEAKERIt's like if you took a message board
11:03SPEAKERand made it into Teams thing,
11:05SPEAKERwhere Slack is like if you take an IRC client
11:07SPEAKERand turn it into a Teams thing.
11:09SPEAKER- Oh, all right.
11:10SPEAKER- So it's like a combination of Trello and a message board.
11:15SPEAKERAnd it's like we used to use it at maximum PC,
11:17SPEAKERit was really good.
11:18SPEAKERStill is, tons of people use it.
11:21SPEAKERThey think email sucks, as I think probably everyone agrees.
11:26SPEAKERAnd I have a long--
11:27SPEAKER- I feel like that's the pitch
11:28SPEAKERof like every, at least every other email app
11:31SPEAKERthat comes out at this point, hey, email sucks.
11:33SPEAKERWe all start that way.
11:35SPEAKER- If you ask nine out of 10, if this is the Family Feud,
11:38SPEAKERand I asked nine out of 10,
11:39SPEAKERif I asked 100 people at some socially distant gathering,
11:44SPEAKERwhether they liked email or not,
11:46SPEAKERI bet like 94 of them would have said no,
11:49SPEAKERemail kind of sucks.
11:51SPEAKER- Survey does say.
11:52SPEAKER- So they released a new email client
11:56SPEAKERas a closed beta called Hey.
11:58SPEAKER- Is this how it's styled, Hey exclamation mark?
12:00SPEAKER- Yeah, it's got kind of unfortunate bubbly font too,
12:03SPEAKERbut we don't have to talk about that.
12:04SPEAKERIt's very friendly.
12:06SPEAKER- H-E-Y exclamation mark.
12:07SPEAKER- Yeah, it's not a client.
12:10SPEAKERSo it's not like old inbox was prior to Gmail buying it,
12:14SPEAKERwhere it was a client for Gmail.
12:16SPEAKERThis is actually an email provider.
12:17SPEAKERYou get a whatever name you want at hey.com address.
12:21SPEAKERYou can forward your Gmail
12:22SPEAKERand whatever addresses you want to it,
12:23SPEAKERand it knows how to handle that.
12:25SPEAKERBut, and I wanted to try it, so I did.
12:29SPEAKERAround the time they launched this,
12:31SPEAKERyou know, you launch an iOS app,
12:33SPEAKERyou launch a iPad OS app, you launch a Mac app,
12:35SPEAKERall the things that you need for a new mail client.
12:39SPEAKERThey, the apps for the iOS and iPad OS,
12:43SPEAKERI believe got through the store,
12:45SPEAKERgot through the app review process.
12:47SPEAKERAnd then they tried to do a bug fix and Apple said,
12:50SPEAKERhey, wait, no, no, you can't do this.
12:52SPEAKERIf you want to do this- - Is it hey, hey?
12:53SPEAKER- Yeah, hey, hey, hey, if you want to do this,
12:58SPEAKERyou have to, like, this is an app that doesn't work
13:01SPEAKERif you don't subscribe to the service.
13:03SPEAKERWe're, in order to put this in our store,
13:05SPEAKERyou have to like let people who discover it
13:09SPEAKERthrough the store click a button and sign up for it,
13:12SPEAKERwhich means that then, oh, also it's paid.
13:15SPEAKERIt's a paid email service.
13:16SPEAKERSo it's the product, not you being-
13:19SPEAKER- There's a free tier?
13:20SPEAKER- Well, we'll get there.
13:22SPEAKER- Okay.
13:23SPEAKER- They don't have a, if you download an app
13:26SPEAKERand sign up for something through that app.
13:27SPEAKERSo for example, if I download Disney Plus
13:29SPEAKERfrom the app store and I sign up for Disney Plus
13:30SPEAKERthrough the app store, then Apple gets 30% of the money
13:34SPEAKERthat Disney Plus charges me as their fee.
13:37SPEAKER- I had a feeling that's where this was going.
13:41SPEAKER- Now, in some cases, like if you're developing,
13:43SPEAKERif you're making a game and you're selling a game for $6,
13:46SPEAKERthat's been the industry standard on Steam
13:48SPEAKERand other places for a really long time.
13:50SPEAKEREpic has bucked that and changed that price structure
13:54SPEAKERa little bit over the years.
13:55SPEAKERBut for the most part, 30%.
13:59SPEAKERThat doesn't work on things like books and movies
14:03SPEAKERand things like that because the price structures
14:05SPEAKERfor those things are fixed by the publishers
14:07SPEAKERof those pieces of content.
14:08SPEAKERSo if Amazon puts the Kindle app on the store
14:12SPEAKERand lets you buy books through the Kindle app
14:13SPEAKERon the app store and their deal with Hatchet,
14:17SPEAKERone of the publishers, is that they get 30% of all sales,
14:20SPEAKERthen all of a sudden Amazon gets nothing out of that deal.
14:24SPEAKERThat Amazon gets 30% of all sales of that book,
14:26SPEAKERthat means Amazon sees no money off of the Hatchet's help.
14:30SPEAKERAnd it actually costs them money
14:31SPEAKERto sell books through the Kindle app.
14:33SPEAKERSo it kind of makes sense that the Kindle app doesn't,
14:36SPEAKERyou can't buy books in the Kindle app,
14:37SPEAKERbut they still let you view your books
14:39SPEAKERthat you've bought on the Kindle through the web browser
14:42SPEAKERor whatever to show up in that app.
14:44SPEAKERSame thing for Netflix and a bunch of other,
14:47SPEAKERwhat Apple calls reader apps.
14:49SPEAKERHay has released Basecamp in the same model for a long time
14:52SPEAKER'cause it's a B2B business where your company
14:54SPEAKERpays for the service and people who use that,
14:57SPEAKERit's like Slack, you use Slack,
14:58SPEAKERyou don't pay for Slack with Apple Pay
15:00SPEAKERor through the app store,
15:01SPEAKERyour company pays 25 or 50 bucks a month or whatever
15:04SPEAKERfor each person who uses Slack, it's less than that.
15:08SPEAKERThe upshot is Apple said, "Hey, you can't do this bug fix
15:12SPEAKER"'cause it violates our guidelines."
15:14SPEAKERSo then the Hay people made a real big public campaign,
15:17SPEAKERwhich is easy to do 'cause it boat loaded people
15:19SPEAKERwho use Basecamp and everybody loves them, they're great.
15:21SPEAKERAnd they had a big fuss for like a week
15:24SPEAKERand this all came to a head the Friday before WWDC started
15:29SPEAKERwhen the Apple review people quietly said,
15:33SPEAKER"Hey, let's figure out a way we can work."
15:35SPEAKERFeel like Phil Schiller sent some public notes
15:37SPEAKERthat were like, "No, we don't want apps that don't work."
15:39SPEAKERAnd then the Hay people posted literally dozens of apps
15:43SPEAKERthat work in exactly the same way that are allowed,
15:46SPEAKERincluding other mail providers like Fast Mail
15:48SPEAKERand stuff like that, Gmail, Google Photos,
15:51SPEAKERall these services don't really work
15:52SPEAKERif you don't have an account that you pay for
15:54SPEAKERoutside of the iOS ecosystem.
15:56SPEAKERThe TLDR is that they're not gonna block bug fixes
16:01SPEAKERfor store guideline violations anymore.
16:04SPEAKERSo if they let your app into the store
16:06SPEAKERwith a mistake over guideline violations,
16:09SPEAKERthey're not gonna do that.
16:10SPEAKERIf you offer a free tier or a free trial
16:13SPEAKERor something like that, so Hay will give you right now
16:16SPEAKERa randomized email address that you can try out the app with
16:20SPEAKERthen you bypass all of this stuff
16:22SPEAKERand you can do it just like you always did.
16:24SPEAKERI've been using Hay for the last two weeks,
16:26SPEAKERit's really good.
16:27SPEAKERIt has some weird naming stuff in there,
16:28SPEAKERlike instead of having an inbox, you have an imbox.
16:32SPEAKER- Yeah, I was wondering if that was a typo,
16:33SPEAKERbut apparently not. - It's for important emails,
16:36SPEAKERBrad. - I don't know
16:36SPEAKERhow I feel about that.
16:38SPEAKER- I put next to that in the quotes,
16:40SPEAKERin parentheses, unfortunate name.
16:42SPEAKER- Yeah, I went to their website
16:44SPEAKERand it seems to be injected with maybe just a tad too much
16:47SPEAKERpersonality for my taste.
16:49SPEAKERIt's kind of up there with like the Discord loading,
16:53SPEAKERthe loading tool tips and stuff like that.
16:55SPEAKERLike twee internet humor only goes so far.
16:59SPEAKER- It's not as bad as Microsoft is what I will say.
17:02SPEAKERThe upshot on the client is it's neat.
17:05SPEAKERBasically, when it sees a new sender, it says,
17:07SPEAKER"Hey, will you tell us where these emails should go?"
17:10SPEAKERAnd they either go into the inbox with other important emails
17:14SPEAKERthat you should see and then can schedule replies
17:17SPEAKERor like bunch up a bunch of emails.
17:18SPEAKERYou reply to them all at one fell swoop.
17:21SPEAKERSo you're not like just doing one email every 15 minutes,
17:24SPEAKERlike insane people do.
17:27SPEAKERThe feed, which is kind of like the stuff
17:28SPEAKERthat you want to look at,
17:29SPEAKERbut maybe isn't urgent to respond to.
17:31SPEAKERSo stuff like newsletters and advertisements
17:34SPEAKERand stuff like that go in there.
17:36SPEAKERAnd paper trail, which is receipts and like passcodes
17:41SPEAKERand all the things that you do probably want to see
17:44SPEAKERwhen they come in and probably keep like tracking numbers
17:46SPEAKERmailed from your Portuguese Ram manufacturer
17:50SPEAKERor something like that.
17:50SPEAKER- Yes, common occurrence.
17:53SPEAKER- And the tools for replying to them are really nice.
17:57SPEAKERLike you can schedule the replies,
17:58SPEAKERyou can dump them all in a bucket.
17:59SPEAKERSo at 4.30, when you do email every day,
18:01SPEAKERyou just do them all at one time and you're done.
18:05SPEAKERThat's it about, hey,
18:06SPEAKERthey've solved this problem before the app WW,
18:08SPEAKERbefore the worldwide developer conference started on Monday.
18:11SPEAKER- Think it was a priority for them?
18:12SPEAKERLike, was this enough of a public boondoggle
18:14SPEAKERthat they wanted to get it resolved?
18:16SPEAKER- My guess is that in the world of normal human beings
18:19SPEAKERwho don't care about stuff like this,
18:20SPEAKERno one knew about it, but in the world of people
18:23SPEAKERwho are going to watch developer conferences
18:25SPEAKERand make apps for, like, just to be clear,
18:29SPEAKERthis is a major problem for Apple, right?
18:31SPEAKERThey've taking 30% of every app that generates revenue
18:35SPEAKERthrough iOS is a bad business.
18:38SPEAKERIt's good revenue for them,
18:40SPEAKERit's going to fuck over their ecosystem
18:42SPEAKERand cause them problems in the longterm, I think.
18:44SPEAKER- You think so, huh?
18:45SPEAKER- And I hope that this has caused them to think about
18:48SPEAKERsomething that's more akin to an affiliate model
18:50SPEAKERfor their pricing on,
18:52SPEAKERespecially for something like a mail app,
18:54SPEAKERwhere like their delivery for a mail,
18:57SPEAKERtheir contribution for the mail app
18:58SPEAKERis accessibility in the store,
19:00SPEAKERmaking that app visible in the store,
19:03SPEAKERand then delivering an application
19:05SPEAKERthat's probably 20 or 30 megabytes or something like that.
19:07SPEAKER- It's not much.
19:08SPEAKER- Yeah, it's not like you're downloading
19:10SPEAKERDota Underlords updates that are 200 megs every other week
19:15SPEAKERto tens of thousands of people.
19:16SPEAKER- 30% is a pretty good return on the amount of effort
19:19SPEAKERthey are putting into facilitating that purchase.
19:21SPEAKER- Agreed.
19:22SPEAKERAnyway, so that's Hey.
19:25SPEAKERAnd now let's talk about the fun stuff.
19:26SPEAKER- Yeah.
19:28SPEAKER- Oh, anybody can try Hey now.
19:30SPEAKERIt's 99 bucks a year.
19:31SPEAKERI think it's good.
19:32SPEAKER- You know, I meant to ask if you find that you can live
19:35SPEAKERwith the randomized email address they give you,
19:37SPEAKERcan you just use it indefinitely?
19:39SPEAKER- I don't know about that.
19:39SPEAKERThat's a good question.
19:41SPEAKERDonkey llama monkey?
19:42SPEAKER- Yes.
19:43SPEAKER- At hey.com?
19:44SPEAKER- Maybe I'll go see what I get.
19:45SPEAKER- Yeah, that's...
19:46SPEAKER- Maybe I'll spin the email roulette wheel and see,
19:49SPEAKERbut yeah, so WWDC happened this week
19:52SPEAKERand we were deciding whether to talk about it or not.
19:55SPEAKERWe were conscious of the fact that our last episode
19:59SPEAKERabout this topic was less than two months ago.
20:03SPEAKER- Brad, I gotta be honest.
20:05SPEAKER- Yeah.
20:06SPEAKER- I have literally no memory of that episode.
20:08SPEAKER- That's impressive.
20:09SPEAKER- It's all gone.
20:10SPEAKER- It was, I believe the first week of May.
20:12SPEAKERSo like six, seven weeks ago.
20:14SPEAKER- Or a hundred years as the case may be.
20:16SPEAKER- Yes, I understand.
20:18SPEAKERI fully get it.
20:20SPEAKERBut yeah, even though we just spent a full episode
20:23SPEAKERtalking about our MacBooks,
20:25SPEAKERit seems like there's enough here on that topic
20:27SPEAKERand also like everything else.
20:29SPEAKERLike it's kind of, there's kind of a lot going on.
20:31SPEAKERIt seems like.
20:31SPEAKER- It seems like a really big year for iOS.
20:35SPEAKERAnd like before anybody starts,
20:38SPEAKERlike they're adding a ton of stuff that Android has had
20:41SPEAKERfor as much as a decade in some cases.
20:43SPEAKER- Yeah, should we start with iOS?
20:44SPEAKERLike I can't believe at the conference
20:47SPEAKERwhere they announced, yes, we are going to arm on MacBooks
20:49SPEAKERthat iOS actually feels like maybe the thing
20:52SPEAKERthat's worth the most talking about the most.
20:53SPEAKER- Yeah, we can start with iOS.
20:55SPEAKERYeah, let's do it.
20:57SPEAKERSo the big thing for me is that they're letting you
21:00SPEAKERset browser and email defaults.
21:01SPEAKERI can't, I sincerely thought that would never, ever happen.
21:04SPEAKERLike it took them so long to implement this
21:07SPEAKERthat I actually don't care anymore.
21:08SPEAKERLike years ago, like for years,
21:09SPEAKERI was like rabid about the fact that they didn't have this.
21:14SPEAKER- It's been a pain in the ass for so long
21:16SPEAKERthat I haven't even like, I mean,
21:18SPEAKERI use Gmail in a web browser on my desktop now
21:20SPEAKERand I don't use Chrome.
21:21SPEAKERSo there's no easy way for me to make,
21:23SPEAKERI just stopped using mail to links, right?
21:25SPEAKERI just always open the email if I need to send an email.
21:27SPEAKER- Right.
21:29SPEAKER- And with the share sheet stuff, it became less important.
21:31SPEAKERBut it is nice that now when you hit
21:33SPEAKERthe send an email button in an app,
21:35SPEAKERit will open up the email client of your choice.
21:38SPEAKER- Yes.
21:38SPEAKER- So Gmail, Hey, fast mail, proton mail,
21:41SPEAKERwhatever you want, you got it, done.
21:43SPEAKERSame browser, I think is a more important thing
21:46SPEAKERbecause like if you're living entirely
21:48SPEAKERwithin the Google ecosystem,
21:49SPEAKERthen like Gmail knew to open Chrome if you had it installed
21:52SPEAKERor would give you the option at least.
21:54SPEAKERBut like other apps didn't necessarily do that.
21:56SPEAKERAnd when I switched to Firefox on mobile,
21:59SPEAKERI lost all of the Firefox,
22:04SPEAKERnothing opens Firefox basically.
22:06SPEAKERSo this is huge.
22:08SPEAKERIt's been 13, well, it's been, I guess,
22:09SPEAKER12 years since the app store opened.
22:12SPEAKER- Okay, sure.
22:13SPEAKER- That they haven't supported this.
22:14SPEAKER- God, I can't believe it's been that long
22:16SPEAKERsince iPhones have been around.
22:17SPEAKERThat's not gonna get into it, forget it, it's too late.
22:20SPEAKER- Apollo 13 is 25 now, Brad.
22:22SPEAKER- It's too late on a Friday to talk.
22:23SPEAKER- Yeah.
22:25SPEAKER- Do you think, so like they've given on this,
22:29SPEAKERthis longstanding policy.
22:31SPEAKERThere are other examples like the iPhone SE,
22:34SPEAKERwhich is like by far probably the best value
22:36SPEAKERin an iPhone they've ever put out.
22:37SPEAKER- It's probably the best value in a phone, frankly.
22:40SPEAKERIt benchmarks better than any Android phone, I think.
22:42SPEAKER- Wait, is all of this just driven by,
22:45SPEAKERI'm not gonna say shrinking market share necessarily,
22:47SPEAKERbut I mean, like Android is so ubiquitous at this point.
22:49SPEAKERLike, is this just them like scrabbling to keep up?
22:52SPEAKER- The almighty aller?
22:53SPEAKER- I think they just want to make more money.
22:55SPEAKER- Okay, okay.
22:56SPEAKER- I haven't kept up for a while,
22:58SPEAKERbut it just felt like for some number of quarters in a row,
23:01SPEAKERit was like, oh, iPhones didn't sell
23:02SPEAKERas much as they projected this time.
23:04SPEAKERAnd maybe that business has plateaued.
23:06SPEAKERI don't know where they're at with that stuff.
23:08SPEAKER- I mean, when you're selling billions of units a year,
23:10SPEAKERit's hard to further expand the market.
23:13SPEAKER- Yeah, that's fair. - If that makes sense.
23:14SPEAKER- Yeah.
23:15SPEAKER- I think, I mean, the thing,
23:19SPEAKERthe people that I know that work at Apple
23:21SPEAKERand the friends that I have that work at Apple
23:23SPEAKERare almost uniformly the kind of people
23:27SPEAKERwho are never satisfied with good enough.
23:30SPEAKER- Okay.
23:30SPEAKER- Which is, it's one of the things
23:32SPEAKERthat I've always liked about Apple.
23:33SPEAKERAnd even when Apple was in the deepest of dark times
23:39SPEAKERin early OS X, late OS IX era,
23:43SPEAKERlike they were still doing things
23:44SPEAKERthat nobody else was doing
23:45SPEAKERbecause they believed that that was the way
23:46SPEAKERthat you should be doing it,
23:47SPEAKEReven if the hardware wasn't capable enough
23:49SPEAKERto do the things that they were trying to do at the time.
23:51SPEAKER- Well, sure, but I guess the examples
23:54SPEAKERthat I'm trying to highlight here are,
23:55SPEAKERI mean, there are issues of quality
23:57SPEAKERand then there are issues of control.
23:58SPEAKER- Yeah.
23:59SPEAKER- And the stuff I'm talking about falls under the ladder
24:00SPEAKERwhere it's like, they charged a ton of money
24:03SPEAKERfor their phones because they could, right?
24:04SPEAKER- Yeah.
24:05SPEAKER- Like they force you to use their apps for everything
24:07SPEAKERbecause they could.
24:08SPEAKERAnd like, I guess that's what I'm really asking you
24:10SPEAKERis are we at a point where they can't do that stuff anymore
24:12SPEAKERbecause the competition is stiff enough?
24:15SPEAKER- Well, I mean, I think they're gonna continue
24:17SPEAKERcharging a lot of money for their phones
24:18SPEAKERbecause everybody's, like they pushed the whole market
24:20SPEAKERtoward charging a thousand dollars for phones, right?
24:22SPEAKER- But there is an option for a very good iPhone now
24:25SPEAKERthat is like competitive with, you know.
24:27SPEAKER- Yeah.
24:28SPEAKER- Mid range pricing from other vendors.
24:32SPEAKER- I mean-
24:33SPEAKER- That didn't exist before, you know?
24:34SPEAKER- It's true, yeah, you're right.
24:35SPEAKERI mean, they're pushing down.
24:38SPEAKERI mean, probably, yeah,
24:39SPEAKERthey are trying to expand market share, I guess.
24:40SPEAKERThat's what the SE means, yeah.
24:42SPEAKER- Right, yeah.
24:43SPEAKER- The stuff that they've changed are real,
24:46SPEAKERlike quality of life for people who use the phone
24:50SPEAKERas their primary computer.
24:51SPEAKERThis is some real quality of life stuff.
24:52SPEAKERLike they're fixing a lot of UI stuff
24:55SPEAKERand adding a lot more, I think Dieter Bahn at The Verge
24:59SPEAKERcalled it complexity, just like as not necessarily negative,
25:03SPEAKERbut it's optional complexity because they're starting,
25:07SPEAKERlike the defaults are still the same simple
25:09SPEAKERstraightforward iPhone interface you've always used,
25:12SPEAKERbut now they're giving users like us the option
25:15SPEAKERto add more things on top of that
25:18SPEAKERthat make it suit our specific needs more appropriately.
25:22SPEAKERAnd I think that's a really good,
25:24SPEAKERI think this is really good.
25:24SPEAKERLike the stuff that they're doing with the widgets
25:27SPEAKERis really neat.
25:29SPEAKERI don't know how much time you spent on Android lately,
25:31SPEAKERbut when you have an Android phone, you can put widgets,
25:33SPEAKERyou know, the home screen isn't just the list
25:35SPEAKERof all of the apps that are on the device
25:37SPEAKERlike it is on iOS.
25:38SPEAKERYou have an app tray that has the complete list
25:40SPEAKERand then you have the home screen.
25:41SPEAKERYou can put apps and like arrange them how you want
25:44SPEAKERand put widgets on there.
25:45SPEAKERAnd then the widgets are like, I mean,
25:48SPEAKERit's like the widgets that Apple had with OS X
25:50SPEAKERon the dashboard 12 years ago.
25:53SPEAKEROr congregate, was it con, no, not congregate.
25:56SPEAKERIt was, oh God, what was the name of the thing
25:59SPEAKERthat Yahoo bought that did the widgets on your PC desktop?
26:02SPEAKER- Jeez, I have no idea.
26:04SPEAKER- Anyway.
26:07SPEAKER- But yes, they have doggedly clung to their just simple grid
26:10SPEAKERof app icons since the beginning, right?
26:13SPEAKER- Yeah. - Until now.
26:14SPEAKER- So the app icons still flow from the top left,
26:16SPEAKERwhich remains dopey, but whatever,
26:18SPEAKERmaybe they'll change that next year.
26:21SPEAKERThe widgets you can grab,
26:24SPEAKERthey're similar to the widgets that are in the tray
26:27SPEAKERon the left side of the home screen now.
26:30SPEAKER- I think, in fact, I think out of the box
26:31SPEAKERit's the same widgets, right?
26:32SPEAKEROr it's the same, I mean, they may be redesigned,
26:35SPEAKERbut it's like, it's a stock app, it's a weather app.
26:36SPEAKERIt's like the kind of the basics
26:38SPEAKERthat you expect to see there.
26:39SPEAKER- The defaults are the same.
26:41SPEAKERDevelopers have to redesign these.
26:44SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:45SPEAKER- Because they're always visible
26:46SPEAKERto use a little bit less power in specific ways.
26:47SPEAKER- But what I mean is they haven't come up
26:49SPEAKERwith any like wildly new widget ideas to include,
26:52SPEAKERand at least in the beta, right?
26:53SPEAKERIt was all pretty standard stuff.
26:54SPEAKER- The stuff that I saw was pretty standard.
26:56SPEAKERI mean, it's funny, the widgets that I use the most
27:00SPEAKERare things like the battery for my AirPods,
27:03SPEAKERand I have a SmartThings and a Harmony,
27:05SPEAKERone that are like the two most common things.
27:07SPEAKERLike there's a Harmony one that lets me turn off
27:09SPEAKERall the TVs in the house, which is really nice.
27:11SPEAKERAnd there's a SmartThings one that lets me see
27:15SPEAKERif like doors are open or lights are on when we're away.
27:17SPEAKERNot that that ever happens anymore.
27:21SPEAKERThe thing that's cool is that you can stack these widgets
27:24SPEAKERso that you have all of your widgets
27:25SPEAKERin one bucket, so to speak.
27:27SPEAKER- Yeah, I was really impressed by that.
27:28SPEAKERAnd it seems like you just gotta swipe through them
27:30SPEAKERpretty quickly.
27:31SPEAKER- Yeah, and more than that, they're adding logic
27:34SPEAKERto let the widgets claim primacy.
27:38SPEAKERLike for example, if you have a weather app
27:40SPEAKERand there's a storm coming, presumably the weather app
27:42SPEAKERwill be the thing that's on the front
27:44SPEAKERso that you know there's a thunderstorm storm coming
27:45SPEAKERor a snowstorm coming or whatever
27:47SPEAKERwhen you don't necessarily need.
27:49SPEAKERAnd they're smart about things like if you don't have
27:52SPEAKERa calendar meeting for the next day,
27:54SPEAKERthen you probably don't need the calendar one
27:55SPEAKERto be at the top of the list, right?
27:56SPEAKER- Yeah, there's actually, we'll get into it,
27:58SPEAKERbut there's like numerous examples to me in this beta
28:01SPEAKERof let data processing and algorithms
28:04SPEAKERdetermine how your phone works.
28:06SPEAKER- Which, yeah, as the phones get more complicated
28:09SPEAKERand there's more things to do on them,
28:10SPEAKERseems like I want that.
28:13SPEAKER- Assuming that works properly, yeah, I'm with you.
28:15SPEAKER- Yeah, but I want all of my games in one place
28:19SPEAKERand I don't wanna have to do that myself.
28:21SPEAKER- Right.
28:21SPEAKER- You know?
28:22SPEAKER- Yeah, so like that's the app,
28:23SPEAKERare they calling, they're not calling it an app drawer.
28:25SPEAKERThat's the Android term.
28:26SPEAKER- No, they call it--
28:27SPEAKER- App library.
28:28SPEAKER- App library, yeah.
28:30SPEAKER- So I mean, that's another example of that as a thing
28:32SPEAKERthat will just supposedly intelligently group all your apps
28:35SPEAKERinto, 'cause yeah, I do the same thing right now.
28:37SPEAKERLike I've got a games folder and, you know,
28:40SPEAKERhere's a financial folder, a transit folder, whatever, but.
28:43SPEAKER- Yeah, so I'm bad.
28:46SPEAKERI've gotten to the point that I have like real games,
28:49SPEAKERI have like video games, I have board games,
28:51SPEAKERI have like Snapchat and Evernote
28:54SPEAKERand stuff that I use occasionally, but really never touch.
28:57SPEAKERRealistically, I could put everything into like one folder
29:00SPEAKER'cause I just use search for everything now.
29:02SPEAKERI don't ever look at the, I hardly ever scroll.
29:05SPEAKER- I can't believe I'm saying this,
29:06SPEAKERbut perhaps the thing that I am the most excited about
29:09SPEAKERin this or at least that I think is gonna be the most useful
29:12SPEAKERis a simple alphabetized master list of apps,
29:16SPEAKERwhich is part of the app library.
29:17SPEAKERThey're just going to give you a gigantic list
29:19SPEAKERof all the apps that you have on your phone in order
29:21SPEAKERand let you scroll through them.
29:24SPEAKER- You know what I want?
29:24SPEAKERI want to be able to take a thing that's coded
29:27SPEAKERby the primary color in the app
29:29SPEAKERand just arrange my apps in rainbow.
29:32SPEAKERSo it starts with red and goes all the way down to black.
29:34SPEAKER- Yeah.
29:36SPEAKER- You can turn off whole pages of apps.
29:38SPEAKERSo like if you're going on vacation
29:39SPEAKERand all of your work stuff is on one page,
29:41SPEAKERyou can just flip that off while you're gone
29:44SPEAKERand don't see it anymore.
29:45SPEAKER- Huh, it'd be cool if you could also tell it
29:48SPEAKERto silence notifications for any app that's on a hidden page.
29:51SPEAKER- Oh God, that would be, yeah, I would hope that would happen
29:53SPEAKERbut I guess that's probably, that's a iOS 15 feature.
29:56SPEAKERDon't get me, maybe 28.
29:58SPEAKERI don't know, let's not get crazy here.
30:00SPEAKER- Sure.
30:01SPEAKER- The app library, they're adding the tray type thing
30:05SPEAKERas it seems like it's an extension of the pull down search
30:08SPEAKERthat's been in iOS for the last couple of years.
30:11SPEAKERSeems really good, that has smart grouping as well.
30:13SPEAKERSo you can bundle all of your productivity stuff
30:16SPEAKERand all of your games and all of that stuff together.
30:19SPEAKERIt seems like maybe that stuff will even be based on time
30:22SPEAKERso that the apps that you use,
30:24SPEAKERso like you can have a folder
30:25SPEAKERthat's the apps that you use based on time.
30:28SPEAKERLike I mostly look at the Kindle app
30:30SPEAKERlate in the app evening when I want to read a book
30:33SPEAKERand I do the crossword in the morning
30:35SPEAKERwhen I'm drinking coffee.
30:36SPEAKERAnd like, if you do that, it'll put the calendar
30:38SPEAKERand the crossword in the morning stuff
30:40SPEAKERand the whatever in the evening
30:42SPEAKERso that you only see the things you use at specific times
30:44SPEAKERin the most convenient locations.
30:48SPEAKERThey've added, they've changed the way notifications work
30:51SPEAKERso that, especially for stuff
30:53SPEAKERthat's like a modal full screen notification right now,
30:55SPEAKERlike a call or a FaceTime call or something like that.
30:57SPEAKERSo that they're just little small drop downs from the top
31:00SPEAKERso you won't be tapping on something
31:01SPEAKERon the bottom of your phone
31:02SPEAKERand accidentally pick up a call
31:03SPEAKERfrom someone you don't want to pick up.
31:06SPEAKERThey added, I think that's like instant apps on Android.
31:10SPEAKERIt's called App Clips.
31:12SPEAKERThis is like, if you've ever tried to use Pay by Phone
31:15SPEAKERto park a car in the city or rented one of those scooters
31:18SPEAKERor you have like a Safeway Club Card or something like that,
31:23SPEAKERthis is like a mini,
31:24SPEAKERyou just download 10 megabytes of the app.
31:27SPEAKERThe 10 megabytes of the app,
31:28SPEAKERyou need to complete a transaction with Apple Pay
31:31SPEAKERand you can pay for your parking
31:32SPEAKERor whatever with that.
31:34SPEAKER- Do you know if you still have to go dig that
31:35SPEAKERout of the app store
31:36SPEAKERor is there any kind of automated way to serve it to you,
31:38SPEAKERlike detect what you're trying to do somehow?
31:40SPEAKERI don't know if there's anything in place for that.
31:42SPEAKER- QR codes and NFC can take place
31:44SPEAKERof having to search for it manually.
31:45SPEAKERSo like if you bump your phone on the parking meter
31:48SPEAKERon the trash scooters on the sidewalk,
31:52SPEAKERthen it'll automatically open up that little snippet
31:56SPEAKERand you can pay for it and go on.
31:57SPEAKER- That feels like the future.
31:59SPEAKER- Well, and the neat thing is that app will like hang around
32:02SPEAKERwith like a little dotted line around it for a while,
32:04SPEAKERbut if you don't use it again, it just goes away.
32:06SPEAKER- They just silently delete it after a while.
32:09SPEAKERAnd it's been a while,
32:10SPEAKERit's been a few years since I saw a feature
32:11SPEAKERwith an iPhone or iOS release and thought like,
32:14SPEAKERthat's a future feature.
32:18SPEAKER- And if you want,
32:19SPEAKERso it creates the account for you automatically
32:21SPEAKERusing the Apple ID login stuff.
32:24SPEAKERIt pays with the Apple Pay.
32:26SPEAKERAnd then if you wanna add the full app later
32:29SPEAKERand get a receipt or something that you can,
32:31SPEAKERor you can just trash the whole thing and it goes away
32:33SPEAKERautomatically after a few days.
32:35SPEAKER- That's cool.
32:36SPEAKER- Just to be clear,
32:38SPEAKERI think everything we've talked about so far,
32:40SPEAKERexcept for the widget stacking are all things
32:43SPEAKERthat Android has had for a while.
32:46SPEAKER- Yes.
32:47SPEAKER- Picture in picture for video, including FaceTime.
32:50SPEAKERSo I don't know if you FaceTime a lot.
32:52SPEAKER- Not really.
32:53SPEAKER- So I FaceTime my parents
32:54SPEAKER'cause my daughter a fair amount.
32:56SPEAKERAnd if you, right now, if you alt tab into another,
33:01SPEAKERinto another like app from FaceTime,
33:04SPEAKERyour video pauses and they go away.
33:07SPEAKERSo presumably all of the supported devices
33:09SPEAKERare fast enough now that that doesn't happen.
33:13SPEAKERStuff like Siri bubbling up from the bottom of the screen,
33:16SPEAKERinstead of being a full page interface now,
33:18SPEAKERit's like a little floaty magic ball looking thing
33:20SPEAKERat the bottom of the screen.
33:22SPEAKER- Yeah.
33:23SPEAKER- They didn't-
33:24SPEAKER- That YouTube with that kind of hands-on demo
33:26SPEAKERthat you sent me of the beta,
33:28SPEAKERlike it just looked like a much more thoroughly
33:30SPEAKERmultitasking oriented device than it used to.
33:33SPEAKER- It looks like a lot of the things that came to iPad OS
33:35SPEAKERover the last couple of revisions.
33:37SPEAKER- And I don't know if that's just an effect
33:40SPEAKERof the phones are finally getting fast enough
33:42SPEAKERand have enough memory to actually be able
33:43SPEAKERto handle all that stuff simultaneously.
33:45SPEAKERBut it just, it seemed like, it seemed like, you know,
33:48SPEAKERa lot more dragging things around,
33:50SPEAKERputting things side by side, things on top of each other,
33:52SPEAKERyou know, like the phone just seems much more capable
33:54SPEAKERand the interface facilitates you doing a lot more stuff
33:57SPEAKERat one time.
33:57SPEAKER- Well, but I mean, at the same time,
33:59SPEAKERthe thing that was really clear looking at those videos
34:01SPEAKERand talking to people who've been using the beta more,
34:03SPEAKERand like I said, I'll install it this week.
34:05SPEAKERSo we'll talk about it on the podcast, on the Discord some.
34:10SPEAKERI feel like all of that stuff is optional.
34:13SPEAKERLike where on Android, they kind of throw that stuff
34:15SPEAKERright at you at the beginning.
34:16SPEAKERThey're like, "Hey, what widgets do you want
34:17SPEAKERon your home screen?"
34:19SPEAKERThis is something that you're gonna have to know
34:21SPEAKERhow to do.
34:22SPEAKERAnd I think in this case, it's actually like,
34:24SPEAKERusually I'm kind of anti that, but in this case,
34:26SPEAKERI think it's probably a pretty good choice.
34:28SPEAKER'Cause like my dad doesn't,
34:30SPEAKERmy dad's not gonna want widgets.
34:31SPEAKERWidgets will fuck him all kinds of up.
34:33SPEAKERBut like, you know, I've looked at the things
34:38SPEAKERthat Android can do for years and been like,
34:39SPEAKER"Man, if this had iMessage support,
34:41SPEAKERI would have gone a long time ago."
34:44SPEAKERThe, just generally speaking, series pretty good now.
34:49SPEAKERI can't believe I'm saying this, it's pretty good.
34:51SPEAKERLike it does the things that I want when I'm driving,
34:54SPEAKERnot that that ever happens again.
34:57SPEAKERBut like I can play music on Spotify using Siri.
35:00SPEAKERAnd that happened sometime in the last like 14 months.
35:03SPEAKERPocket cast supports Siri now, which is awesome.
35:06SPEAKERThe, with Homebridge, I can control smart things
35:10SPEAKERusing the Apple Home support.
35:11SPEAKERAnd that works really well, the HomeKit support,
35:13SPEAKERthat works really well.
35:14SPEAKERIt's a surprisingly functional voice interface.
35:19SPEAKERAnd it definitely was not that
35:20SPEAKERwhen I got my iPhone 10 two, three years ago now.
35:26SPEAKERAnd this'll be with, this'll work with iPhone 6S and up.
35:28SPEAKER- Yeah, I was kind of shocked when I saw that list
35:31SPEAKERand it went that far back.
35:33SPEAKER- I mean-
35:34SPEAKER- Oh wait, did they cut out the regular 6?
35:35SPEAKERIs it definitely just a 6S?
35:36SPEAKER- I think it's just 6S.
35:37SPEAKERThe regular 6 has been really slow
35:40SPEAKERfor a couple of years now, so-
35:41SPEAKER- Yeah, I would believe it.
35:43SPEAKER- I mean, I'm surprised, let's say,
35:45SPEAKERwell, they are pretty good about long-term support.
35:48SPEAKERI'd started to say,
35:48SPEAKERI'm surprised even the iPhone 7 can take this,
35:50SPEAKERbut I guess the 7's still...
35:54SPEAKER- I would not say that they are good with long-term support.
35:57SPEAKER- Compared to, well, I see a lot of Android owners
35:59SPEAKERsaying they wish that their carriers
36:01SPEAKERor their manufacturers were half as good
36:03SPEAKERas Apple about that stuff.
36:05SPEAKER- In terms of getting the software update,
36:07SPEAKERas to whether the software update
36:08SPEAKERis fast enough to be usable.
36:10SPEAKER- Oh, trust me, I remember.
36:11SPEAKERI put, what was it, iOS?
36:13SPEAKERI can't remember.
36:14SPEAKERWhat was the worst iOS on the 3G?
36:16SPEAKERWas it 4?
36:17SPEAKERI want to say iOS 4 worked on the 3G
36:19SPEAKERand rendered the phone borderline unusable.
36:21SPEAKER- Four or five, yeah, one of those.
36:23SPEAKERThat's when you switched to Windows Mobile, I think.
36:25SPEAKER- Yes, yes, I remember.
36:26SPEAKERDon't worry, trust me.
36:27SPEAKERBut I'm not saying they're great,
36:28SPEAKERbut I think they're probably the best relative to others.
36:31SPEAKER- I think once the product gets mature
36:33SPEAKERin the way that the 14th generation of iOS has,
36:38SPEAKERthey're better, is what I would say.
36:40SPEAKERI still think that,
36:42SPEAKERI think this year the Apple Watch Series 2
36:45SPEAKERloses support, presumably,
36:48SPEAKERwhich for a product that I have a literal 40-year-old watch
36:52SPEAKERthat still keeps perfect time feels pretty shitty to me.
36:56SPEAKER- Yes, watch is a different story, for sure.
37:02SPEAKER- One of the things people found in the betas
37:03SPEAKERis they've added tap shortcuts.
37:05SPEAKERSo you can tap the back of the phone two or three times
37:07SPEAKERand you can bind that to any Siri shortcut.
37:12SPEAKERSo that means you can use it,
37:13SPEAKERlike you can tap the back of the phone twice
37:14SPEAKERto launch Google Assistant, for example,
37:16SPEAKERor to disable your pie hole for 10 minutes.
37:22SPEAKER- Just one extra input.
37:24SPEAKER- One extra multi-functional button, yeah.
37:28SPEAKER- Is that, I assume that just uses the gyroscope
37:30SPEAKERor the accelerometer?
37:31SPEAKER- Probably both together.
37:32SPEAKER- It's like motion detection kind of thing, yeah.
37:34SPEAKER- Yep, that's it.
37:36SPEAKER- They added a bunch of new controller support.
37:38SPEAKERThey added a kind of surprising amount of game stuff.
37:40SPEAKER- Yeah, I was surprised to see this.
37:42SPEAKERTo be clear, the basic support
37:45SPEAKERfor regular controllers is in now, right?
37:47SPEAKERIsn't that iOS 13?
37:48SPEAKER- It came in with iOS 13, but it has some weird gaps.
37:52SPEAKERFor example, the Apple controller spec
37:55SPEAKERdoesn't include clicky sticks.
37:58SPEAKERSo when you play something on like a Steam link
38:01SPEAKERor PlayStation streaming thing, or one of those services,
38:06SPEAKERthe clicky sticks didn't work for a long time.
38:08SPEAKERI haven't used that in a while,
38:09SPEAKERso I don't know if they work now,
38:11SPEAKERbut like you had to come up with another corded entry
38:13SPEAKERto solve for clicking the right stick
38:15SPEAKERin games that require you to click the right stick.
38:18SPEAKERSo now they're supporting,
38:20SPEAKERit looks like everything the controllers can do,
38:21SPEAKERlike the DualShock 4 supports the touch pad,
38:25SPEAKERthe clicky pad, clicking and touching the touch pad,
38:28SPEAKERgyroscopic controls.
38:29SPEAKER- I want to say it even supports the light bar
38:32SPEAKERon that thing.
38:33SPEAKER- Well, so right now the light bar turns like Apple Arcade
38:36SPEAKERpink when you use it.
38:38SPEAKER- Okay.
38:39SPEAKER- Sometimes the games will change the color, I think.
38:41SPEAKERBut yeah, like it supports everything.
38:43SPEAKEROn the Xbox, they're supporting the Elite V2,
38:46SPEAKERthe Bluetooth one,
38:48SPEAKER'cause they do only support Bluetooth controllers.
38:50SPEAKERSo the original generation of Xbox One controllers
38:54SPEAKERdon't work, but they support the extra haptic rumble
38:59SPEAKERin the triggers and they support paddles
39:02SPEAKERon the Elite controller and something else.
39:06SPEAKERI think that's it. - It's pretty robust.
39:07SPEAKERIt's impressive, yeah. - Yeah, it's pretty robust.
39:09SPEAKERAnd Xbox Adaptive Controller support, which is huge.
39:13SPEAKER- Yeah.
39:13SPEAKER- And keyboard and mouse support.
39:16SPEAKER- Which is, I assume, universal across mobile.
39:20SPEAKERLike it works with the iPad as well.
39:21SPEAKERWell, I mean, the iPad obviously has had
39:23SPEAKERlike Bluetooth keyboards for a while and stuff, but.
39:25SPEAKER- I think it still has to,
39:25SPEAKERI don't think you can plug in like your USB gaming mouse.
39:27SPEAKERI think it still has to be a Bluetooth mouse.
39:29SPEAKERBut yeah. - Okay.
39:30SPEAKER- Like you said, it's more complex.
39:32SPEAKERThey're opening everything up in a way
39:33SPEAKERthat I'm a little surprised by.
39:35SPEAKER- Like across the board, the whole story
39:37SPEAKERwith all this iOS and mobile stuff from this
39:39SPEAKERjust feels like a different Apple to me,
39:41SPEAKERlike a much less like intent on controlling every,
39:45SPEAKERlike the end-to-end everything
39:47SPEAKERin their ecosystem kind of Apple.
39:48SPEAKER- I mean, Steve Jobs died eight years ago.
39:52SPEAKER- Yeah.
39:54SPEAKER- Johnny Ive left almost two years ago now.
39:56SPEAKER- Yeah.
39:57SPEAKER- I feel like in this arm switch,
40:00SPEAKERtypically Apple has done a pretty good job
40:03SPEAKERmaking big cultural and like these kind
40:08SPEAKERof big cultural changes
40:09SPEAKERwhen they've had an architecture change.
40:11SPEAKERAnd like unifying macOS and iOS
40:15SPEAKERon the same architectures is a big deal.
40:19SPEAKER- Yeah.
40:21SPEAKERLike the kind of the Apple thoughtfulness of design
40:23SPEAKERand like quality of industrial design
40:25SPEAKERand like fit and finish and build quality combined
40:27SPEAKERwith like more choice, more control for the user,
40:31SPEAKERmore flexibility, like embracing more open standards
40:34SPEAKERand stuff feels like the best possible version
40:36SPEAKERof Apple to me, honestly.
40:38SPEAKER- Well, and there's other...
40:41SPEAKERYeah, I mean, I think that's exactly right.
40:44SPEAKERAnd they're also doing some real futurey stuff too.
40:46SPEAKERLike one of the things that I didn't realize
40:49SPEAKERis that the AirPod Pros have gyroscopes in them
40:52SPEAKERin addition to accelerometer.
40:53SPEAKERLike they've always had accelerometers
40:55SPEAKER'cause you can tap them and use that
40:57SPEAKERas like a answer the phone or play your music
41:00SPEAKERor whatever prompt, turn on Siri.
41:03SPEAKERBut the Pros have a gyroscope.
41:05SPEAKERAnd what that means is that when you pair them
41:07SPEAKERwith like a depth camera or something,
41:09SPEAKERthey can tell the orientation of your head
41:12SPEAKERso that like they can play sound in the room
41:14SPEAKERlike you have a surround sound set up around you.
41:17SPEAKERSo that if you like turn your head
41:18SPEAKERwhen you're watching a movie,
41:20SPEAKERyour ears will think that the sound
41:23SPEAKERis staying in the same place.
41:24SPEAKER- Wow, that's pretty good.
41:27SPEAKER- And like it makes me kind of optimistic
41:30SPEAKERabout the direction they're going with AR going forward.
41:35SPEAKERIt makes me excited about it in a way that I kind of was not.
41:38SPEAKERSo yeah, I think this is a really good...
41:43SPEAKERLike, I mean, the big question I have
41:45SPEAKERis that the last couple of iOS releases
41:48SPEAKERhave been kind of like buggy good, buggy good.
41:53SPEAKERI'll be, this should be a buggy.
41:57SPEAKER- All right.
41:58SPEAKER- If they continue the current cadence,
42:00SPEAKERI'm hopeful it has a lot of big changes.
42:02SPEAKERSo I'm kind of okay either way,
42:03SPEAKERbut it would be nice if it was good.
42:06SPEAKEREspecially-
42:07SPEAKER- 14.1, like we said.
42:08SPEAKER- Yeah, but-
42:09SPEAKER- If you're not dying for it.
42:11SPEAKER- Yeah, or 14.A1, let's see.
42:14SPEAKERSwing for the dice.
42:17SPEAKERDo you wanna talk about...
42:18SPEAKEROh, last thing on games.
42:20SPEAKERThey're adding Game Center
42:21SPEAKERand they're giving Game Center an interface again.
42:23SPEAKER- I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
42:24SPEAKERYou mean they are restoring Game Center?
42:26SPEAKER- Look, Game Center has been on hiatus.
42:30SPEAKER- Sure, what a weird situation.
42:32SPEAKERLike they just say at one point they were just like,
42:34SPEAKER"Hey, the Game Center app is gone."
42:35SPEAKERYou still have a username.
42:37SPEAKERYou still sign into it.
42:38SPEAKERThere are still achievements.
42:39SPEAKERIt gives you pop-ups when you're in games,
42:41SPEAKERbut no more Game Center.
42:43SPEAKERNow it's back.
42:44SPEAKER- It's weird.
42:45SPEAKEROn the future front,
42:47SPEAKERone of the things I think is really neat
42:48SPEAKERis if you have an iPhone 11, that UWB chip,
42:52SPEAKERthe ultra wideband U1 chip,
42:54SPEAKERthat can tell, uses high-frequency radio
42:57SPEAKERto get directionality on things,
42:59SPEAKERis accessible for games now.
43:02SPEAKERSo presumably you can have a game
43:03SPEAKERwhere you're flicking a puck or something
43:05SPEAKERat somebody who's across the room from you
43:07SPEAKERand the vectors are right and all.
43:09SPEAKERI don't know what that game is,
43:10SPEAKERbut it might be weird and cool.
43:11SPEAKERI'm excited about it.
43:12SPEAKER- Yeah, huh.
43:13SPEAKER- Yeah, so that's iOS 14.
43:16SPEAKERLike I said, the MKBHD video,
43:20SPEAKERI think was my favorite.
43:22SPEAKERThe Verge one was really good.
43:23SPEAKERDieter did a good job with the Verge one.
43:25SPEAKERWe'll post both in the show notes
43:27SPEAKERso you can check them out.
43:27SPEAKERAnd a bunch of people in the Discord
43:31SPEAKERhave been talking about this for the last few days,
43:32SPEAKERwhich is kind of why I went and watched these videos.
43:34SPEAKERSo thank you for all the intrepid early testers
43:38SPEAKERwho are now going to make me break my five-year streak
43:41SPEAKERof not installing iOS betas.
43:43SPEAKERYeah, you bastards.
43:44SPEAKER- What phone are you on?
43:46SPEAKER- A 10.
43:46SPEAKER- Still a 10.
43:47SPEAKER- So mid-range at this point.
43:49SPEAKER- Okay, is this an upgrade year for you, do you think?
43:54SPEAKER- Let's see how the rest of the, maybe?
43:57SPEAKERI don't know.
43:57SPEAKER- Well, yeah, so obviously it's a fraught time.
44:00SPEAKER- Financial considerations.
44:00SPEAKER- A lot of extra considerations, sure.
44:04SPEAKERYeah, I don't know.
44:05SPEAKERI'm gonna wait and see how that stuff goes.
44:07SPEAKERIs it weird?
44:07SPEAKERI have an iPhone 8.
44:08SPEAKERIs it weird that this just reinforces my desire
44:11SPEAKERto trade up to an SE?
44:14SPEAKER- Look.
44:15SPEAKER- Like all this,
44:16SPEAKERthat mostly goes to all the multitasking stuff
44:17SPEAKERI was talking about.
44:18SPEAKERIt's not like the 8 is a slouch exactly,
44:20SPEAKERbut the SE is so fast for the money
44:23SPEAKERthat I just feel like throwing as much horsepower
44:26SPEAKERat all these features as I can might be a good idea.
44:29SPEAKER- Well, so since I stopped reviewing phones for a living,
44:33SPEAKERwe moved to a Gina getting the good phone policy
44:35SPEAKER'cause she takes way more pictures than I do.
44:38SPEAKERAnd when I pick up her 11, the thing that is striking
44:42SPEAKERis how fucking fast that thing is.
44:45SPEAKERThe FaceTime is really fast, the camera's really fast,
44:48SPEAKERthe portrait mode stuff is incredibly fast.
44:50SPEAKERAll the things that are like not slow,
44:52SPEAKERbut kind of bumbling awkward on the 10.
44:56SPEAKER- Okay.
44:57SPEAKER- Feel real good over there.
44:58SPEAKERSo I don't know, let's see what they do.
45:00SPEAKERI'm gonna wait and see.
45:02SPEAKERAt the same time, I'm kind of like, this phone is great.
45:04SPEAKERIt's still good.
45:05SPEAKERI got a fresh one right when the 11 came out
45:07SPEAKER'cause my battery was swelling.
45:09SPEAKERSo I'm like, I don't know.
45:11SPEAKERI could ride it out another year probably, we'll see.
45:13SPEAKER- Sure, sure.
45:14SPEAKER- I might get a watch.
45:15SPEAKERIt seems like the stuff that they're doing
45:17SPEAKERwith health monitoring on the watch
45:18SPEAKERseems maybe good enough for me to violate my rule on,
45:23SPEAKERlike it would be nice to have the thing tell me
45:25SPEAKERif my family history of heart problems
45:27SPEAKERis going to cause an immediate problem
45:29SPEAKERin the next 10 minutes.
45:30SPEAKER- You know, it's the least they could do for you
45:32SPEAKERafter retiring your old model.
45:33SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
45:34SPEAKER- Is try to prevent you from dying.
45:36SPEAKER- Yeah, I'd pay $300 to not die.
45:39SPEAKERI didn't have to be an asshole to not do that.
45:41SPEAKER- Yeah.
45:42SPEAKER- Oh.
45:43SPEAKER- All right, arm books.
45:44SPEAKER- Arm book, it's called a MacBook.
45:47SPEAKER- Okay.
45:49SPEAKER- Yeah, the rumors were true.
45:53SPEAKERThey announced a two-year roadmap for full transition
45:57SPEAKERsoup to nuts across the board.
45:58SPEAKEREvery Mac by 2022, end of 2022, presumably,
46:03SPEAKERis going to be running a family of Apple-designed SOCs.
46:09SPEAKERSystemless chips.
46:10SPEAKER- Apple Silicon is the phrase I kept seeing them use.
46:13SPEAKER- Yeah. - Which sounds very fancy.
46:15SPEAKERI probably am gonna pepper you with the same question
46:17SPEAKERmultiple times throughout this.
46:19SPEAKER- Hit me. - Which is to ask,
46:20SPEAKERwhich is to ask if you were,
46:21SPEAKERI guess you were in tech and covering the stuff
46:23SPEAKERwhen the PowerPC to Intel transition happened, right?
46:27SPEAKERSo the question is just gonna be like,
46:30SPEAKERis this how it was before, basically?
46:31SPEAKERLike, how did they handle this the last time
46:33SPEAKERfor X, Y, and Z in this conversation as we,
46:35SPEAKERfor example, I mean, was there this much of a grace period
46:38SPEAKERor an overlap with that transition?
46:40SPEAKERI didn't cover that stuff professionally,
46:43SPEAKERbut in my memory, it happened a lot faster than two years.
46:46SPEAKER- I feel like it was, well, I mean,
46:49SPEAKERthe product line was much less complex then too.
46:51SPEAKER- That's true. - 'Cause there were iMacs,
46:53SPEAKERthere were MacBooks, and there were Mac Pros, rather.
46:59SPEAKERLike, there was no MacBook Air, there was no MacBook only.
47:03SPEAKERMac Mini, I guess, was still a thing.
47:06SPEAKERI feel like it rolled out a lot the same way,
47:08SPEAKERexcept for they went the high end first
47:10SPEAKERand rolled down to the mobile.
47:12SPEAKERI can't remember, actually.
47:14SPEAKERThey might've, I feel like when the MacBook Air came out,
47:17SPEAKERthat was really the, oh, wait, no, that's not right.
47:22SPEAKERYeah, that was all done well before that.
47:24SPEAKERThe MacBook was, the MacBook Pro,
47:28SPEAKERthe aluminum unibody MacBook Pros were Intel first,
47:31SPEAKERand that was a big deal.
47:32SPEAKERThat's when they got rid of all the plastic stuff.
47:36SPEAKERThe thing that happened was they reached the end
47:38SPEAKERof the IBM, the performance line for the IBM G series
47:42SPEAKERof processors, and it made a ton of sense.
47:46SPEAKERThe software transition was awkward.
47:48SPEAKERIf you think about it, there were two big Apple
47:51SPEAKERarchitecture transitions in the modern age before that.
47:54SPEAKERThe other one was from the Motorola chips
47:57SPEAKERto the IBM PowerPC chips, the G series chips.
48:02SPEAKERAnd that one, that one is where,
48:05SPEAKERI feel like that's where everybody stopped using Quark
48:08SPEAKERand started using InDesign in publishing
48:10SPEAKERbecause Quark didn't transition fast enough
48:12SPEAKERand lost an incredible, like 99% market share
48:16SPEAKERto Adobe in like a year.
48:19SPEAKER- Wow.
48:21SPEAKER- But yeah, so everybody, like after that,
48:23SPEAKERAdobe's always been pretty good about moving stuff
48:25SPEAKERover to the new platforms.
48:28SPEAKERLike this, I predicted this when Apple started making
48:32SPEAKERtheir own ARM chips eight years ago.
48:34SPEAKERAnd I, you know, it makes a ton of sense, right?
48:39SPEAKERApple spent the last 10 years living by Intel's roadmaps.
48:43SPEAKERAnd if Intel's GPU sucks or Intel doesn't add
48:47SPEAKERa machine learning acceleration or it doesn't add
48:49SPEAKERwhatever feature they want in their hardware,
48:52SPEAKERthen they either have to put a separate chip in
48:54SPEAKERor they have to hope that Intel decides to support it
48:58SPEAKERthe next year and use their leverage to make that happen.
49:01SPEAKER- And underneath all of that, even if they're getting
49:03SPEAKEReverything they want when they want it,
49:05SPEAKERwe're still talking about a family of chips
49:08SPEAKERthat was not designed, you know,
49:10SPEAKERfrom a mobile-first perspective, right?
49:12SPEAKERLike in terms of power consumption, heat, battery life,
49:15SPEAKERall that stuff, like x86 is not the most efficient
49:18SPEAKERmobile platform.
49:19SPEAKER- Well, yeah, and just to be clear,
49:21SPEAKERApple has spent literally tens, maybe even hundreds
49:24SPEAKERof billions of dollars at this point developing
49:26SPEAKERthe A-series ARM SOCs.
49:29SPEAKERAnd you don't spend that kind of money
49:34SPEAKERand then just keep buying the good enough processors
49:38SPEAKERfrom the next guy when your thing is fast enough
49:39SPEAKERto do what you want.
49:41SPEAKERSo it makes a ton of sense.
49:44SPEAKERThey announced Mac OS 11, big sir.
49:48SPEAKER- Yes, go on. - OS 11.
49:50SPEAKER- Yeah.
49:51SPEAKER- Arabic one, Arabic one.
49:54SPEAKER- This makes me sad.
49:55SPEAKER- Really?
49:56SPEAKER- I'm not sure why, it's hard to put my finger on it.
49:59SPEAKER- I like the OS 10 name.
50:00SPEAKERI was sad, I was already sad that they kind of like
50:02SPEAKERsoft rebranded it as Mac OS.
50:05SPEAKER- I think it's funny that now Windows is behind again
50:07SPEAKERafter saying they're gonna stick with 10
50:09SPEAKERfor the next 10 years.
50:10SPEAKER- That's what they get.
50:11SPEAKER- And one number back.
50:12SPEAKER- Can't chase those brands, man.
50:13SPEAKERYou gotta set the standards.
50:14SPEAKER- Honestly, I was kind of surprised that Microsoft
50:16SPEAKERdidn't call it the Xbox 5 this year just to get parity.
50:20SPEAKER- It would be very like them.
50:22SPEAKER- So yeah, it's two OSs this time.
50:25SPEAKEROne is ARM only, one is for Intel Macs.
50:27SPEAKERThey're gonna keep making OSs for Intel Macs for awhile,
50:31SPEAKERit seems like.
50:32SPEAKER- It doesn't seem like much new in this version of Mac OS.
50:35SPEAKERI assume this is a transitional release,
50:37SPEAKERlike they're focusing on getting the new architecture right.
50:40SPEAKER- So often with the Mac OS releases,
50:43SPEAKERwell, there was a lot of new UI stuff,
50:45SPEAKERlike they've redesigned the user interface a ton.
50:47SPEAKERIt's not--
50:48SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
50:48SPEAKERThe control center is on there.
50:49SPEAKERIt's not nothing, but it's not, there's nothing gigantic.
50:51SPEAKER- I mean, I don't know that, I don't,
50:53SPEAKERas a Mac OS user, I don't want anything gigantic.
50:56SPEAKERI want them to just not fuck it up.
50:58SPEAKER- Sure.
50:59SPEAKER- Right?
51:00SPEAKER- Sure.
51:00SPEAKER- They're saying that apps kind of just recompile,
51:04SPEAKERwhich is something I'm always really skeptical of.
51:06SPEAKER- Yeah, I think that was just for Xcode.
51:10SPEAKER- Well, I mean, I guess you can make Mac apps on not Xcode.
51:14SPEAKER- Yeah.
51:15SPEAKER- My guess is that the only way to make Mac apps
51:16SPEAKERgoing forward is gonna be on Xcode.
51:17SPEAKER- Yeah, you're probably right, at least for awhile.
51:19SPEAKER- Yeah, at least, well, the only way,
51:22SPEAKERand even if you make your app,
51:23SPEAKERlike we've packaged stuff for iOS before,
51:26SPEAKERyou still have to run it through Xcode
51:27SPEAKERto put it on the Apple store, on the iOS store.
51:31SPEAKERYeah, so iPad, this is a shocking thing to me.
51:38SPEAKERiOS and iPad OS apps will just show up in the app store
51:42SPEAKERon the Mac app store when you have an ARM Mac,
51:45SPEAKERwhich is bonkers.
51:46SPEAKER- Why is that shocking to you?
51:47SPEAKER- Because they're designed for different interfaces.
51:51SPEAKERLike how do you map a mouse and keyboard to a touchscreen?
51:54SPEAKER- That was definitely my first question.
51:56SPEAKER- Yeah.
51:57SPEAKER- When they said they were doing this,
51:57SPEAKERbut at the same time, why wouldn't they do this, right?
52:00SPEAKER- I mean, it makes sense,
52:01SPEAKERbut I wonder if there are new like translation layer APIs
52:05SPEAKERor if they're just gonna put touchscreens
52:07SPEAKERon all these ARM Macs all of a sudden, finally.
52:10SPEAKER'Cause like, if you look at it,
52:10SPEAKERthey're really the only laptop manufacturer
52:12SPEAKERthat isn't shipping at the very minimum touchscreens
52:15SPEAKERas an option.
52:16SPEAKER- Sure.
52:17SPEAKER- So yeah, I don't know about that, we'll see.
52:22SPEAKERBootcamp for Windows,
52:23SPEAKERyou won't be able to bootcamp over to Windows.
52:24SPEAKERIt seems like you won't be able to run Windows
52:25SPEAKERon a VM on these, which is probably fine.
52:29SPEAKERThey're including Linux VMs as options,
52:32SPEAKERpresumably for like web developers
52:34SPEAKERwho wanna be able to have their dev environment
52:35SPEAKERrunning locally on their machines.
52:37SPEAKERIf they support,
52:39SPEAKERso they are doing backwards compatibility
52:42SPEAKERfor old Intel based apps, presumably for a while.
52:47SPEAKERThey killed that after like three or four revisions
52:49SPEAKERof OS X back in the day with the G5 transition.
52:53SPEAKERBut, you know, they're gonna be slow.
52:55SPEAKER- Yes.
52:56SPEAKER- Alternately, if you have an app
52:58SPEAKERthat the developer has just compiled
52:59SPEAKERto run on both Intel and ARM,
53:01SPEAKERyou'll download the universal,
53:03SPEAKERit's called a universal two binary.
53:05SPEAKER- Why didn't they just call it a universal binary?
53:07SPEAKER- Because universal binary is G5 and X86.
53:09SPEAKER- No, I know that, but that was like 15 years ago.
53:13SPEAKERWho still needs to worry about that transition?
53:15SPEAKER- Didn't they just turn that off?
53:17SPEAKERLike with the first California named Mac OS?
53:21SPEAKER- Really?
53:22SPEAKER- Yeah. - The Rosetta stuff?
53:23SPEAKER- Maybe it was snow leopard.
53:24SPEAKERIt wasn't that long ago.
53:26SPEAKER- Wow.
53:27SPEAKER- Yeah. - Huh.
53:28SPEAKER- Yeah.
53:29SPEAKER- It feels like, 'cause they're also using the phrase
53:32SPEAKERor the name Rosetta 2,
53:34SPEAKERwhich I also think is kind of hilarious branding.
53:36SPEAKER- Rosetta harder.
53:37SPEAKER- But yeah, maybe that stuff has been in use
53:39SPEAKERsince somewhere in some like dusty old publishing shop
53:42SPEAKERthat never upgraded until very recently, I don't know.
53:46SPEAKER- Yeah, it's weird.
53:49SPEAKERThey demoed a bunch of apps running on ARM
53:51SPEAKERat the keynote, including Photoshop, Office, Final Cut X.
54:00SPEAKERPresumably this is the end of the road for Final Cut 7.
54:02SPEAKERSorry, people who've been hanging on to a 32 bit app
54:06SPEAKERfrom like 10 years ago.
54:08SPEAKERI'm interested to see what happens
54:10SPEAKERwith like the compute heavy apps,
54:12SPEAKERlike media encoder and stuff like that,
54:13SPEAKERthat traditionally lag these new changes.
54:17SPEAKERAnd I know that you can accelerate H.264, H.265 encoding
54:23SPEAKERon Silicon, but I don't know that people will buy
54:26SPEAKERthe quality you get out of that
54:27SPEAKERif they don't actually get it right.
54:29SPEAKERSo especially for like film, like Spielberg gonna be okay
54:34SPEAKERwith hardware accelerated H.265 encoding.
54:37SPEAKERI don't think so.
54:38SPEAKER- Yeah.
54:39SPEAKER- And they're shipping dev kits soon
54:41SPEAKERso that people can start testing their apps.
54:44SPEAKERIt's a $500 Mac mini that it seems like you maybe have
54:48SPEAKERto return at the end and don't get your 500 bucks back.
54:50SPEAKERI don't know.
54:51SPEAKER- Huh, I mean, it's not a great deal.
54:54SPEAKER- If you sell apps on the app store, it doesn't,
54:55SPEAKERif you have a product, 500 bucks doesn't matter.
54:57SPEAKERIf you don't, it does, right?
54:59SPEAKERThat's the, I get why they would do that to not be hassled
55:03SPEAKERby a bunch of dipshits.
55:06SPEAKERSo yeah, that's Mac OS on ARM.
55:09SPEAKERIt seems, and like I said,
55:11SPEAKERyou'll be able to get on your Intel Macs.
55:12SPEAKERI think the cutoff for this one is MacBook Pros,
55:17SPEAKERlate 2013 MacBook Pros get this new iOS, Mac OS
55:21SPEAKERand early 2013 MacBook Pros do not.
55:24SPEAKER- Got it, I think.
55:25SPEAKER- Yeah.
55:26SPEAKER- I just, I happened to notice at the end of the R story,
55:27SPEAKERthere's just a little anecdote here that,
55:29SPEAKERso this is the A12Z, which is I believe what's
55:32SPEAKERin the current iPad Pro.
55:34SPEAKER- Yes.
55:34SPEAKER- Is what these first laptops will be based on.
55:36SPEAKER- Well, it's what the Mac mini is based on,
55:38SPEAKERthe developer kit is.
55:39SPEAKERWe don't know that, I don't think they said
55:41SPEAKERwhat the first products will be announced
55:43SPEAKERat the end of this year, presumably.
55:44SPEAKER- Oh, that's just the dev kit, okay.
55:46SPEAKER- So I would guess they'll be based on the A13 version
55:48SPEAKERof this, not the A12 version of this.
55:49SPEAKER- Well, even better then, but at any rate,
55:51SPEAKERat least in a geek bitch context,
55:54SPEAKERours says that that chip is equivalent
55:56SPEAKERto a 2019 MacBook Pro that has a core I9 in it, which-
56:00SPEAKER- Yeah, that's bonkers, right?
56:01SPEAKER- It was kind of eye-opening for me,
56:02SPEAKERlike an I9 is about as good as you're gonna get
56:06SPEAKERin the laptop space right now, like that's pretty impressive.
56:09SPEAKER- Yeah, so for me, we talked about this in May,
56:14SPEAKERI'm really curious to see how these chips,
56:16SPEAKERlike they make different spins of the chips
56:18SPEAKERfor iPhones and iPads already.
56:20SPEAKERI'll be interested to see if they make desktop,
56:22SPEAKERif they add, how many more skews of chip they add,
56:26SPEAKERdo they add a laptop chip or is the iPad chip
56:29SPEAKERand the Mac OS chip basically the same?
56:31SPEAKERDo they add a desktop chip that's like just a big honker
56:35SPEAKERand you put a huge heat sink on?
56:37SPEAKER- Right, like that's what our story said,
56:38SPEAKERwas like that's the iPad Pro version of that chip
56:41SPEAKERthat they're comparing to the I9.
56:42SPEAKER- Yeah.
56:43SPEAKER- So with, yeah, with like more potential
56:45SPEAKERfor thermal dissipation and stuff like that,
56:47SPEAKERmore cooling and so forth,
56:48SPEAKERlike who knows what they push that to,
56:51SPEAKERlike could be exciting.
56:52SPEAKER- I am interested to see.
56:56SPEAKER- So I guess also I continue to think
56:58SPEAKERthat the California National Parks naming scheme
57:01SPEAKERfor Mac OS is terrible.
57:03SPEAKER- It's pretty California centric.
57:05SPEAKER- Not only that, not only is it a little bit navel gazing,
57:08SPEAKERbut it's very hard to keep track of, I find.
57:11SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't remember and I used to be paid
57:13SPEAKERto keep track of this stuff.
57:15SPEAKER- There you go then.
57:17SPEAKER- Yeah, Mojave, that was one, I don't know which one.
57:19SPEAKER- Sure, one of them's got a forest,
57:21SPEAKERI guess the other one's a desert,
57:23SPEAKERI don't know what's going on here.
57:24SPEAKER- Every once in a while Craig Ferengi says weed
57:29SPEAKER'cause there's a place in California called Weed.
57:31SPEAKER- Like I'll put it this way,
57:32SPEAKERif you can't remember the releases
57:33SPEAKERby their default wallpaper,
57:35SPEAKERbecause they're all just landscapes,
57:37SPEAKERit's kind of a problem.
57:38SPEAKER- Yep, yep, there you go.
57:40SPEAKER- Anyway.
57:42SPEAKER- So I guess that's it, that's kind of the high points.
57:46SPEAKERIf you found stuff that you liked in the iOS beta,
57:49SPEAKERlet us know, and I think they're gonna open it up
57:51SPEAKERto everybody in July, so.
57:52SPEAKER- Oh, is that new?
57:54SPEAKER- No, they usually do-- - Do they always do that?
57:56SPEAKER- Like that's one of the things that's actually made iOS
57:57SPEAKERnot a flaming train wreck at launch.
58:00SPEAKER- Okay.
58:01SPEAKER- 'Cause they've done a wide public beta
58:02SPEAKERthat anybody can sign up for.
58:03SPEAKER- Oh, okay.
58:04SPEAKER- They also provide a mechanism
58:06SPEAKERthat you can roll back to the previous version
58:08SPEAKERif the beta messes up something you actually need.
58:10SPEAKERSo like, well, it's not advisable
58:12SPEAKERto put it on your primary phone.
58:13SPEAKERYou know, it's not disastrous if it doesn't go well for you.
58:17SPEAKER- Sure.
58:18SPEAKER- And you don't have to use weird jailbreaking tools
58:20SPEAKERto make it work right.
58:22SPEAKERBut yeah, I'll let you know, I don't know,
58:25SPEAKERmaybe in the letters episode or the patron episode
58:28SPEAKERor something next week, so how it goes.
58:31SPEAKER- This is pretty impressive.
58:32SPEAKERLike this is the most, like I don't know
58:34SPEAKERif excited is the word I would say,
58:35SPEAKERbut impressed is the most impressed I've been
58:37SPEAKERwith a set of Apple announcements in a while.
58:40SPEAKERLike it just, it feels like a positive step forward
58:43SPEAKERfor them in some ways where they have traditionally
58:45SPEAKERbeen maybe a little bit stodgy.
58:47SPEAKER- I mean, yeah, it's weird.
58:49SPEAKERThe ours thing, it's funny, you mentioned that
58:51SPEAKERand I think now I'm like,
58:53SPEAKERit's weird that they have really good hardware
58:55SPEAKERand the OS has consistently lagged
58:57SPEAKERbecause of some weird like philosophical.
59:00SPEAKER- Right.
59:01SPEAKER- Like there's some philosophical stuff
59:03SPEAKERthat they do that I really like.
59:04SPEAKERLike the focus on privacy and security
59:07SPEAKERis very important to me, but on the other hand,
59:10SPEAKERlike not being able to click a fucking link in an app
59:13SPEAKERand it opened the browser I want to use
59:15SPEAKERinstead of their crappy browser blows, so here we are.
59:18SPEAKER- Like even Microsoft is open sourcing
59:20SPEAKERa bunch of their stuff now, like come on, man.
59:22SPEAKER- Yeah.
59:22SPEAKER- Give it the times, like everybody like open standards,
59:25SPEAKERopenness and like choice are the way forward.
59:28SPEAKER- Yeah, there you go.
59:30SPEAKERSo I guess that's as good a place as any to wrap it up.
59:33SPEAKERAs always, it's the last episode of the month
59:36SPEAKERas we discovered early in the show.
59:38SPEAKER- Yeah.
59:38SPEAKER- So.
59:39SPEAKER- Hopefully the people, the folks can live
59:41SPEAKERwithout the emails for one more week.
59:44SPEAKER- We'll do, yeah.
59:45SPEAKER- Sorry about going off schedule.
59:47SPEAKER- We'll get some emails in there for y'all.
59:49SPEAKEROur, as always, thanks to our executive producer
59:52SPEAKERlevel patrons, Kurt Brownridge, Jacob Chappell,
59:56SPEAKERAndrew Cotton, David Allen, and David Allen rather.
59:59SPEAKER- Yes.
1:00:00SPEAKER- Thank you all so much.
1:00:01SPEAKERBut also since this is the end of the month,
1:00:02SPEAKERwe always thank our associate producer level patrons as well
1:00:07SPEAKERwho are Dave Julian, Dan Brockman, Jad Rita,
1:00:10SPEAKERSam Buck, Thomas Shea, Graham Banks, and Paul Roost.
1:00:15SPEAKERThank you all so much.
1:00:16SPEAKERAnd thanks to all of our patrons.
1:00:17SPEAKER- Yes, absolutely.
1:00:19SPEAKER- If you would like to find out how to support the podcast,
1:00:23SPEAKERget your name read at the end of next month
1:00:25SPEAKERor next week, whichever, or get access
1:00:29SPEAKERto the TechPod Discord, you can find out at patreon.com/techpod
1:00:34SPEAKERThat's patreon.com/techpod.
1:00:37SPEAKERAnd yeah, Brad, I can't remember if I said this last week,
1:00:41SPEAKERbut I gave up and I finally added a mechanical keyboard chat
1:00:45SPEAKERto the Discord.
1:00:45SPEAKER- Yes, it was becoming a thing.
1:00:47SPEAKER- And I've been spending time in there.
1:00:52SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:00:54SPEAKER- And I'm waiting for some drops.
1:00:55SPEAKERSo maybe I'll do a mechanical keyboard building stream
1:00:59SPEAKERor something at some point.
1:01:01SPEAKER- I would give that a look.
1:01:02SPEAKERI'm not quite sure I'm ready to hop in,
1:01:04SPEAKERbut you know, I'm mechanical curious at this point.
1:01:08SPEAKER- Should we do a mechanical keyboard episode?
1:01:10SPEAKER- I don't know about that.
1:01:11SPEAKER- You don't want to get that far?
1:01:11SPEAKER- Hang on, we'll see if my personal interest is there
1:01:14SPEAKERbefore I come to anything. - Dial it back.
1:01:16SPEAKER- Okay. - The clackiness,
1:01:17SPEAKERlike I get that the clacky, clacky, clacky is satisfying,
1:01:21SPEAKERbut from an open microphone perspective, it's...
1:01:24SPEAKER- It is problematic.
1:01:25SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:01:26SPEAKER- But you know, there's an infinity of keys
1:01:28SPEAKERand some of them are very quiet, very quiet.
1:01:31SPEAKER- Key for every interest.
1:01:34SPEAKER- Thank you so much to all of our patrons
1:01:35SPEAKERand thank you, Brad, it's always a pleasure, man.
1:01:38SPEAKER- Yes.
1:01:40SPEAKER- At the end of a difficult week,
1:01:42SPEAKERit is always lovely to sit down and have a good chat.
1:01:45SPEAKER- Yes, I don't have any more of weeks
1:01:46SPEAKERof escalation we can take at this point.
1:01:49SPEAKER- I'm just gonna go on vacation next week maybe, I think.
1:01:52SPEAKER- I know more and more people who are doing that
1:01:54SPEAKERand I like every time it happens, I'm like, oh, right,
1:01:56SPEAKERvacations, that's the thing that you can do.
1:01:58SPEAKER- Yeah, you're supposed to do that, I think.
1:01:59SPEAKER- Even if you can't leave,
1:02:00SPEAKERyou can still take time off, right?
1:02:03SPEAKER- I don't think I've really taken a vacation
1:02:04SPEAKERin the last five years and that's probably not healthy.
1:02:07SPEAKER- That's not good, man.
1:02:08SPEAKER- Yeah, no.
1:02:09SPEAKEROkay, well, we'll be back next week
1:02:11SPEAKERwhen we'll do a patron episode at some point very soon.
1:02:14SPEAKERSo thank you all so much and see you all next week.
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