00:00SPEAKEROkay, so Valve sent me a Steam Machine today.
00:04SPEAKERAnd this is the part where Brad would usually go, "Huh!"
00:07SPEAKERBut he's still out on a family matter.
00:10SPEAKERSo the cold open is just me today.
00:12SPEAKERI'm gonna talk a little bit about the Steam Machine,
00:14SPEAKERgive some first impressions,
00:16SPEAKERand then we're gonna move on to the real show.
00:19SPEAKERI'll have a full episode next week.
00:20SPEAKERI just got it in too late to give it the time
00:23SPEAKERthat I needed to do to do a real evaluation
00:25SPEAKERand decided to go with plan B instead.
00:29SPEAKERSo we'll talk about the Steam Machine
00:30SPEAKERon next week's episode.
00:31SPEAKERUnfortunately, that's after the pre-order window opens
00:34SPEAKERfor anybody who's interested in it.
00:35SPEAKERMy guess is that there's probably not all that many people
00:38SPEAKERwho have access to pre-ordering it,
00:41SPEAKERso it'll probably be fine.
00:43SPEAKERBut the first impression is really positive.
00:46SPEAKERPricing stuff aside,
00:47SPEAKERwhich we'll talk about in the full episode next week,
00:49SPEAKERthe hardware feels much more like a console
00:53SPEAKERthan any PC I've ever plugged into my living room.
00:55SPEAKERIt does the console stuff like it does one set of updates.
00:59SPEAKERSo the system updates everything all at once.
01:03SPEAKERThere's no kind of, hey, I have to update the OS.
01:07SPEAKERI have to update Steam.
01:08SPEAKERI have to update drivers, whatever.
01:11SPEAKERYou just hit a button every once in a while
01:12SPEAKERand it does the update.
01:14SPEAKERYou can power it on by pressing a button
01:16SPEAKERon your Steam controller.
01:19SPEAKERIt'll do the HDMI CC stuff to change the inputs
01:23SPEAKERon your TV and receiver.
01:25SPEAKERYou can change the volume on the TV
01:28SPEAKERfrom inside the Steam UI.
01:30SPEAKERThat stuff is working really, really well.
01:32SPEAKERAnd generally speaking, the games that play
01:35SPEAKERon the Steam Deck are playing fine on it as well.
01:38SPEAKERI kind of got into some of this stuff
01:39SPEAKERon Nextlander this week with Vinny and Alex,
01:42SPEAKERbut I've been really pleasantly surprised
01:44SPEAKERby how easy it is to launch games
01:47SPEAKERand to kind of dig into how much it gets out of your way
01:52SPEAKERand just lets you play the games.
01:55SPEAKEROther stuff to talk about on the kind of first impressions,
01:58SPEAKERthe box experience was really nice.
01:59SPEAKERThey packed it in a bunch of cardboard.
02:01SPEAKERIt's all recyclable.
02:03SPEAKERThey sent me the premium, the more expensive kit
02:06SPEAKERwith the two terabytes of storage and the two faceplates,
02:10SPEAKERa red cloth one and a brown wood one.
02:13SPEAKERBoth of those faceplates magnet on,
02:15SPEAKERso you can just pop the front one off
02:16SPEAKERand pop them on and off really easily.
02:20SPEAKERThe noise on it is very, very low.
02:22SPEAKERI haven't heard it spin up yet,
02:24SPEAKEReven when I was playing what I would consider
02:27SPEAKERmodern console games.
02:30SPEAKERLet's see, I played a lot of 007.
02:32SPEAKERI played a fair amount of High on Life 2,
02:35SPEAKERwhich is a relatively new release,
02:37SPEAKERand all of the kind of stuff I've played
02:39SPEAKERjust kind of works.
02:39SPEAKERI haven't heard the fan from where I sit across the room,
02:42SPEAKEReight or 10 feet.
02:44SPEAKERIt doesn't turn off the TV when you turn off the console
02:47SPEAKERor put the console to sleep.
02:48SPEAKEROh, other things it can do.
02:50SPEAKERIt can sleep and save the state in your game
02:52SPEAKERand then resume and the game comes back.
02:54SPEAKERThat hasn't failed at all on me,
02:55SPEAKERwhich I thought was interesting.
02:58SPEAKERSo yeah, it's a pretty console-y experience
03:01SPEAKERfor a personal computer,
03:04SPEAKERespecially one that's running Linux.
03:05SPEAKERI haven't done any kind of Linux desktop work with it yet.
03:10SPEAKERI haven't gone to install anything.
03:13SPEAKERI haven't installed the glorious egg roll versions of Proton.
03:16SPEAKERI haven't installed Heroic or any of that kind of stuff.
03:19SPEAKERI haven't installed Dekky Loader.
03:22SPEAKERI'm just using it as I would a console so far.
03:25SPEAKERSo the stuff to test for next week
03:26SPEAKERthat I haven't gotten a chance to look at yet,
03:29SPEAKERwhich I really do want to spend some time on
03:31SPEAKERbefore we do the episode,
03:33SPEAKERare things like, hey, how does the desktop work?
03:36SPEAKERCan you actually use this as a real computer?
03:39SPEAKERI need to pop it open and see whether I got
03:41SPEAKERone of the two eight gig stick models
03:43SPEAKERor the one 16 gig stick models.
03:46SPEAKERI didn't notice any kind of performance hits,
03:48SPEAKERso maybe the running single channel RAM thing
03:51SPEAKERreally isn't a big deal.
03:53SPEAKERBut yeah, so that's, I want to dig into that.
03:57SPEAKERI want to look at things like how the different
04:01SPEAKERfaceplates perform in terms of noise and stuff like that.
04:05SPEAKERI'm looking for Easter eggs still.
04:07SPEAKERThere's a couple of things.
04:09SPEAKERYou can change the startup video.
04:12SPEAKERYou can set the startup video to launch
04:14SPEAKERevery time you resume from sleep.
04:15SPEAKEROr you can set it to never show when you resume from sleep,
04:18SPEAKERwhich I thought was interesting.
04:19SPEAKERIt has a little LED on the front.
04:21SPEAKERYou can control that.
04:22SPEAKERI made mine look like, depending on who you ask,
04:24SPEAKEReither a Cylon or Knight Rider.
04:26SPEAKERIt just kind of switches back and forth with a red light.
04:30SPEAKERIt's been a really pleasant experience so far.
04:34SPEAKERAnd is, I got to say, it's much more polished.
04:37SPEAKERI guess I didn't get a Steam Deck at launch
04:39SPEAKER'cause there was a pretty good wait list on that.
04:41SPEAKERBut I got the Steam Deck when it was maybe six months old,
04:43SPEAKERthe first one, and this feels much more polished
04:48SPEAKERthan that did even then.
04:50SPEAKERSo this is definitely benefiting from the subsequent
04:53SPEAKERfew years of Steam Deck and Steam OS development.
04:56SPEAKERNow, there are a few things I noticed that are very decky.
04:59SPEAKERI think the system, the name of the system,
05:02SPEAKERwhen I looked at it on the network, is still Steam Deck.
05:05SPEAKERObviously, I'm using this pre-release,
05:06SPEAKERso I'm still seeing what I assume are much more
05:09SPEAKERfrequent updates from Valve for the system
05:12SPEAKERthan you will on the shipping machine.
05:13SPEAKERSo I've had a couple, two or three updates.
05:16SPEAKERThe Steam Controller, the Puck,
05:18SPEAKERall that stuff is updating frequently.
05:21SPEAKERI did manage, I paired, I tested out the Steam Controller
05:26SPEAKERworking with multiple radios.
05:28SPEAKERSo now I have a Steam Controller,
05:31SPEAKERa street Steam Controller that's paired with both
05:33SPEAKERmy desktop PC in my office and with the Steam Machine.
05:37SPEAKERAnd you switch between those two by holding down
05:40SPEAKEReither the right bumper or left bumper and the A button
05:44SPEAKERwhile you press the Steam button to wake up the controller.
05:47SPEAKERAnd that's actually a really incredibly convenient feature
05:51SPEAKERcoming from PlayStation and Xbox controllers
05:54SPEAKERthat don't have any kind of similar functionality.
05:56SPEAKEROther stuff that I need to test before next week,
05:59SPEAKERI haven't used any other controllers with this yet.
06:01SPEAKERI've exclusively been using the Steam Machine Controllers
06:04SPEAKERfor the Steam Controller, the second gen Steam Controller.
06:07SPEAKERI wanna make sure I test Xbox and PlayStation Controllers
06:12SPEAKERas well as the 8BitDo gamepad that I use on the reg.
06:15SPEAKERAnd then I wanna run a couple of benchmarks.
06:18SPEAKERLike I said, the performance,
06:19SPEAKERI think somebody on Giant Bomb the other day
06:22SPEAKERdescribed it as cromulent, the performance is cromulent,
06:26SPEAKERwhich is exactly right.
06:27SPEAKERLike it is entirely capable, nothing special.
06:32SPEAKERIt feels like vanilla current gen console to me
06:37SPEAKERin a positive kind of sense.
06:39SPEAKERSo get some actual numbers there
06:41SPEAKERso we can talk a little bit about that.
06:42SPEAKERBut we have a guest coming to talk about that next week.
06:44SPEAKERI might even see if we can get a couple of people
06:47SPEAKERin for that one.
06:48SPEAKERAnd that's pretty much it, that's what I got.
06:51SPEAKERSo there's a quick, let's say five or six minutes
06:56SPEAKERon what I think about the Steam Machine so far.
06:58SPEAKERWe'll have a full episode about it next week
07:00SPEAKERwhere we'll dig into the pricing stuff.
07:02SPEAKERI think the pricing is,
07:04SPEAKERwe talked about this on Nextlander a lot.
07:06SPEAKERI think, I haven't done the full exercise yet
07:11SPEAKERand I haven't really dug in
07:12SPEAKERand tried a bunch of different options.
07:13SPEAKERI think it would be really hard to beat this price
07:16SPEAKERby more than 50 or 75 bucks,
07:19SPEAKERwhich is more of a testament
07:21SPEAKERto how bad the hardware market is
07:22SPEAKERthan the work that Valve did.
07:25SPEAKERBut we'll talk about that in next week's episode I'm sure.
07:27SPEAKERI guess this is where I usually say something funny,
07:29SPEAKERlike this time in the machine steams you.
07:33SPEAKER(upbeat music)
07:43SPEAKER(upbeat music continues)
08:01SPEAKERWelcome to Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod.
08:03SPEAKERI'm Will, as I said in the cold open,
08:05SPEAKERBrad's still out on a family matter.
08:07SPEAKERAnd this week I am really, really stoked
08:11SPEAKERto welcome a new guest to the show.
08:14SPEAKEROur guest this week is a senior writer at PC Mag,
08:21SPEAKERa co-host of both the Material Podcast and Android Faithful
08:26SPEAKERand also was an intern at Maximum PC
08:29SPEAKERroughly a hundred years ago when I was still at Maximum PC.
08:34SPEAKERWelcome to the flow show.
08:35SPEAKERWelcome to the show flow.
08:37SPEAKER- I love that, the flow show.
08:38SPEAKERFinally, somebody gives me a show.
08:40SPEAKER- Hi, so, okay.
08:41SPEAKERSo people over the years have accused us
08:44SPEAKERof not talking about Android and Google stuff enough
08:48SPEAKERon this podcast, 'cause both Brad,
08:49SPEAKERBrad was a Windows phone guy for a really long time.
08:52SPEAKERAnd then he became an iPhone person again.
08:55SPEAKERYeah, I know, never forget.
08:56SPEAKERBut now we're back and you do,
09:00SPEAKERyou've done Android stuff for years.
09:01SPEAKERYou do a podcast in addition to the stuff at PC Mag,
09:03SPEAKERyou do a podcast with Andy Nako.
09:05SPEAKERYou talk about Android stuff
09:06SPEAKERand what's going on with Google and all that.
09:08SPEAKERAnd I am curious to hear-
09:11SPEAKER- And Android Faithful, by the way.
09:13SPEAKER- Of course, that's with our friends over at DTNS, right?
09:16SPEAKER- Yes, that's correct.
09:17SPEAKER- Yeah, we love them. - That's correct.
09:18SPEAKER- We're big fans over here.
09:20SPEAKERYeah, I miss doing my Tuesdays over there.
09:23SPEAKERI used to come on on Tuesdays occasionally in chat
09:24SPEAKERand then I started doing PC World stuff.
09:26SPEAKER- That's interesting, Android Faithful's on Tuesdays.
09:28SPEAKERIf only you used Android,
09:29SPEAKERthen you could have something else on your Tuesday slots.
09:32SPEAKER- Look, I'm like a,
09:34SPEAKERLinux is like halfway Android at this point
09:36SPEAKERor Android is halfway Linux, but-
09:38SPEAKER- You've been an iPhone person since I met you
09:41SPEAKERas a little intern, so.
09:44SPEAKER- So I did, when the Pixel came out,
09:47SPEAKERI bought a Pixel 1 and I used that for a year.
09:50SPEAKERAnd then I bought a Pixel 2
09:51SPEAKERand my wife, who I love dearly, was like,
09:54SPEAKER"Hey, you're messing up the group chats."
09:56SPEAKERThis was back when that was still a problem.
09:58SPEAKER- I know.
09:59SPEAKER- And then as a result, for Marital Harmony, I chose,
10:02SPEAKERI made my choice and I bought an iPhone 10
10:04SPEAKER'cause also it was shiny and new.
10:06SPEAKERAnd then I haven't been back since, so.
10:09SPEAKERBut Google I/O was last month and you were there,
10:12SPEAKERyou were also at WWDC.
10:13SPEAKER- I was.
10:14SPEAKER- And I'm kind of curious,
10:17SPEAKERlike, first off, I want to start off,
10:18SPEAKERlike, what's the vibe at one of these developer conferences?
10:20SPEAKERNow, I haven't been to one in person in a long time
10:23SPEAKERand they used to be really, like,
10:25SPEAKERebullient, enthusiastic places
10:28SPEAKERwhere people were really hyped up to be there.
10:30SPEAKERAnd like, it was, it felt like a place,
10:32SPEAKERlike, okay, Microsoft Build was never like that.
10:35SPEAKERBut like, the WWDC and the Google I/O crowds
10:39SPEAKERwere all people that were really,
10:41SPEAKERlike, they were true believers.
10:42SPEAKERIt was like, it was like Tim Cook or Steve Jobs
10:45SPEAKERwould stand up on the stage at WWDC.
10:48SPEAKERLarry and Sergey would stand up at Google I/O
10:50SPEAKERand it was like they were preaching to the faithful.
10:51SPEAKERAnd is it still, do you still have that vibe there?
10:54SPEAKEROr is it just like, yo, work made me come
10:56SPEAKERto this conference kind of situation or somewhere in between?
11:00SPEAKER- That is a really interesting question.
11:03SPEAKERIt feels, by the way, like months ago
11:05SPEAKERthat I went to these conferences
11:06SPEAKERbecause they took over my life
11:10SPEAKERand I got like fully ensconced in the worlds.
11:13SPEAKERI will say the people that are more of the fans
11:17SPEAKERthat you would say is WWDC
11:20SPEAKERbecause Apple still has like a really,
11:22SPEAKERlike the fan base is so loyal.
11:25SPEAKERThey will find any reason to continue loving Apple.
11:29SPEAKERLike Apple could start a world war and it wouldn't matter.
11:35SPEAKER- See that you say that.
11:36SPEAKER- And I have accepted, and I have accepted that.
11:37SPEAKERLike I've accepted that there is something
11:40SPEAKERabout this ethos that really speaks to people
11:42SPEAKERon a very deep psychological level
11:44SPEAKERthat nothing else does in this world.
11:46SPEAKERAnd you absolutely get that being at WWDC.
11:49SPEAKERI dress differently for WWDC.
11:52SPEAKERI do my makeup different.
11:54SPEAKERLike my demeanor is very different.
11:56SPEAKERI'm a different flow.
11:58SPEAKERI code switch to be there versus on the Google campus.
12:02SPEAKER- Okay, I got to dig into this in a second.
12:04SPEAKERBut it was unclear to me if they still invite,
12:08SPEAKERdo they still invite,
12:09SPEAKERlike there's still people that come to WWDC in person, right?
12:13SPEAKER- Yes, developers, lots of them.
12:16SPEAKER- Like when they moved to the campus-
12:17SPEAKER- Whores of them going, yeah,
12:19SPEAKERas they walked down Cupertino streets.
12:22SPEAKER- Okay, and it's just like a bunch of,
12:23SPEAKERinstead of the bunch of nerds walking around Moscone,
12:26SPEAKERlike we used to play a game when we would go to WWDC
12:29SPEAKERat Maximum PC where we were like,
12:30SPEAKERis this person talking to themself?
12:32SPEAKERIs this a person talking to themself
12:34SPEAKERor do they have like an AirPod in there on the phone?
12:36SPEAKER'Cause you often couldn't tell from behind,
12:38SPEAKERbut you could hear the muttering.
12:40SPEAKERAnd it was most often somebody with the headphone in,
12:43SPEAKERbut sometimes it was just somebody
12:43SPEAKERwith the Think Different shirt
12:44SPEAKERthat was talking to themselves joyously.
12:47SPEAKERIs it still that same vibe
12:48SPEAKERor is this like app developer hipsters these days?
12:53SPEAKER- Well, hipsters aren't around anymore
12:54SPEAKER'cause they went out with millennials with the Gen Z.
12:57SPEAKERI don't know what they're called now.
13:00SPEAKER- This is like the six, seven kids now.
13:02SPEAKERIs that where we're at?
13:03SPEAKERIs it- - That's Gen Alpha.
13:04SPEAKER- Yeah, no, I'm aware.
13:07SPEAKER- I'm learning this too, man.
13:08SPEAKERI'm just learning.
13:09SPEAKER- Look, I have a teenager.
13:10SPEAKERI know all the things. - I know.
13:11SPEAKERI'm no longer the dominant generation.
13:14SPEAKERSo I've had to come to terms with that.
13:16SPEAKERNo, but in all sincerity,
13:19SPEAKERI would say that there's more of that
13:21SPEAKERon the Apple side of things
13:23SPEAKERthan there is on the Google side of things.
13:24SPEAKERAnd let me say, part of that has to do with the AI.
13:28SPEAKERSince the Gemini talk has really taken over the show
13:33SPEAKERand they plucked Android out of the main keynote
13:36SPEAKERand they made it like its own pre-week keynote.
13:40SPEAKERSo now you have the Android show
13:41SPEAKERthat comes out a week before the very public.
13:45SPEAKERI mean, it's still public.
13:46SPEAKERLike they still put it on YouTube and they live stream it,
13:48SPEAKERbut it's for the Android developers
13:52SPEAKERwho are going into the code,
13:53SPEAKERwho are using the source code,
13:54SPEAKERwho are submitting apps to the Play Store.
13:56SPEAKERLike that's who that is for.
13:59SPEAKERAnd then now Google IO is about,
14:01SPEAKERhere's what you're gonna build with Gemini.
14:03SPEAKERHere's what Gemini is gonna do for you.
14:05SPEAKERAnd the crowd has really changed.
14:08SPEAKERIt used to be really, sorry, I'm like on a roll now
14:11SPEAKERbecause I'm reliving it. - No, no, no.
14:13SPEAKER- But the crowd has really changed
14:15SPEAKERover the past couple of years
14:17SPEAKER'cause this was my 13th Google IO.
14:19SPEAKER- Wow. - Yeah.
14:21SPEAKER- I started at Moscone and...
14:25SPEAKER- Yeah, well, so now they do Google IO down at Shoreline.
14:28SPEAKERI wondered like what are the things
14:30SPEAKERthat I've noticed in game stuff lately
14:32SPEAKERis that the industry for traditional video games,
14:36SPEAKERconsole and PC games is pretty evenly split
14:40SPEAKERbetween people who are a lot younger than me
14:42SPEAKERand people who are my age.
14:43SPEAKERThere's not a whole lot of in-betweens.
14:45SPEAKERThe millennials, it's like the elder millennials
14:48SPEAKERand the very young millennials in the Gen Z around.
14:50SPEAKERAnd there's not a lot of people in their like early 40s
14:53SPEAKERat this point anymore, which is weird to me.
14:56SPEAKERIt's like that whole generation skipped making video games
14:59SPEAKERfor probably good reasons
15:00SPEAKER'cause it seems like a disaster as an industry now.
15:03SPEAKER- That's interesting.
15:05SPEAKER- And then the tech spaces seem to be the same.
15:09SPEAKERLike I look at the people on stage at like a tech keynote
15:13SPEAKERand it's a bunch of people that look more like me
15:15SPEAKERthan like somebody in their 20s at this point.
15:18SPEAKERAnd I don't know if this is selection bias
15:24SPEAKERand I'm just seeing it because I see people who look like me
15:27SPEAKERand like there's a lot of us around, it turns out.
15:30SPEAKEROr-- - Especially.
15:32SPEAKER- I mean, white guys with glasses and beards
15:34SPEAKERall look the same.
15:35SPEAKERWe've known that for a long time.
15:37SPEAKERBut I wonder if it's just because my generation
15:41SPEAKERhas accidentally aged into being in charge of things
15:44SPEAKERdespite our best efforts not to,
15:46SPEAKERor if it's that the youngs aren't going into these jobs
15:51SPEAKERanymore because they don't perceive them
15:53SPEAKERas like the desirable good jobs.
15:55SPEAKERFor kind of a lot of good reason,
15:56SPEAKERgiven the layoff situation in both tech and games
15:59SPEAKERover the last decade, five years, whatever.
16:02SPEAKER- I mean, it would be a little of column A and B
16:04SPEAKERat that point, right?
16:05SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
16:08SPEAKER- That's interesting you say that.
16:09SPEAKERI've been coming to that point
16:11SPEAKERwhere I'm meeting all these new people
16:13SPEAKERand they are so much younger than me.
16:15SPEAKERAnd I'm like, "Oh, I'm feeling like that now."
16:19SPEAKER- Yeah.
16:20SPEAKER- Now I'm starting to miss out on reference,
16:24SPEAKERthings are kind of flying over my head.
16:26SPEAKERI'm like, "That's not good."
16:28SPEAKER- Look, you gotta get into what the kids are into.
16:30SPEAKERYou gotta start playing adopt me and Roblox.
16:32SPEAKER- And so I've been hanging out around them
16:34SPEAKERin the press room, which I don't want to,
16:36SPEAKERbut it's necessary for the job to do that kind of bit
16:41SPEAKERof social engineering.
16:42SPEAKERAnd so now we have influencers in the press room.
16:46SPEAKER- Wow.
16:47SPEAKER- And in the beginning, I was definitely very gatekeepy.
16:51SPEAKERI was like, "What the heck are you doing here?
16:53SPEAKERYou guys are just noisy and annoying."
16:55SPEAKERAnd some of us are trying to work.
16:57SPEAKERSome of us have degrees, but yeah, but that was just-
17:03SPEAKER- Take your selfie stick and get the hell out of here.
17:04SPEAKER- Yeah, it was just my own insecurities
17:07SPEAKERbecause at the end of the day,
17:09SPEAKERwe're both producing content for someone or something,
17:14SPEAKERfor some audience.
17:15SPEAKERIt's just very different what they do versus what I do,
17:19SPEAKERbut it's still a ton of freaking work.
17:22SPEAKERAnd it's because I had to start incorporating
17:24SPEAKERsome of their work.
17:25SPEAKERAnd so hanging around them, it becomes a little bit
17:29SPEAKERof a sponge, but it definitely skews younger.
17:32SPEAKERIt definitely skews younger
17:34SPEAKERbecause that's what their generation picked up
17:36SPEAKERto do with work.
17:38SPEAKER- I guess that's the answer to the question is
17:39SPEAKERthat that generation went out and they all became influencers
17:42SPEAKERinstead of getting grown up.
17:44SPEAKER- They are a lot of them, just it's a side hustle too
17:48SPEAKERfor a lot of them because they'll have a main hustle
17:51SPEAKERand then they'll have the influencer hustle.
17:54SPEAKER- There's nothing more Gen Z than having three jobs.
17:59SPEAKERSo, okay, so Google IO is more about AI.
18:03SPEAKERCan we talk about the Android stuff a little bit?
18:05SPEAKERI've been told that there are at least dozens
18:06SPEAKERof Android users in the tech pod audience,
18:08SPEAKERdespite our best efforts, Brad and my best efforts.
18:11SPEAKERI'm joking, I'm joking.
18:12SPEAKER- Just a dozen?
18:13SPEAKER- Yeah, Flo made a face there.
18:16SPEAKER- Three billion devices, but go on.
18:18SPEAKER- They used to be excited about that.
18:19SPEAKERThey used to be main stage worthy,
18:21SPEAKERbut now it's like kick us off to the B stage
18:23SPEAKERwhere the Silver Sun pickups are.
18:25SPEAKER- Because they can get a bigger measurement
18:30SPEAKERthrough saying how many devices have Gemini.
18:33SPEAKER- Yeah, how many tokens have you spent today, Flo?
18:35SPEAKER- I noticed that, actually,
18:37SPEAKERI've been running into the token limit.
18:39SPEAKERIt's been annoying me because they limited us
18:41SPEAKERwith this last Google IO.
18:42SPEAKERThey started limiting the tokens
18:44SPEAKERand now I'm like in the middle of a research project
18:47SPEAKERand then suddenly it's like, sorry, babe,
18:48SPEAKERyou ran out of tokens for the day.
18:50SPEAKERYou're gonna have to go down to flashlight.
18:52SPEAKER- Oh, I didn't know what that means, but that sounds bad.
18:54SPEAKER- They downgraded you from Gemini Pro to Gemini flashlight,
18:58SPEAKERwhich is like the lightest chatbot.
19:00SPEAKERIt's the lightest knowledge graph.
19:02SPEAKERIt's become a big part of the Android experience.
19:05SPEAKERAnd it's hard to talk about 'cause people are like,
19:08SPEAKERoh, that means you like it.
19:09SPEAKERAnd I'm like, it's a part of the platform now
19:13SPEAKERand I really need to understand this beast
19:16SPEAKERis really what I'm, I'm studying it.
19:18SPEAKERIt's like I'm surveying it.
19:21SPEAKERYou know, I'm doing my own little AB testing.
19:24SPEAKER- You're doing it on your research, but actually for real,
19:26SPEAKERnot just the way people mean when they say it online.
19:28SPEAKER- Yeah, and I'm actually giving Google all that data
19:30SPEAKERso we know what they're gonna do with it.
19:32SPEAKER- Well, it's funny 'cause it's one of the things
19:33SPEAKERthat's kind of pushed me away from Google
19:35SPEAKERover the last few years,
19:36SPEAKEReven on terms of like desktop services.
19:38SPEAKER- And I think it's gonna push a lot more people away.
19:39SPEAKER- Yeah, 'cause it's, my experience has been,
19:43SPEAKERwell, the generative stuff has its own problems.
19:45SPEAKERWe've talked about to death on the podcast.
19:47SPEAKERWe don't need to get into that.
19:48SPEAKERBut even like the interpretive stuff,
19:49SPEAKERso like the stuff that they're putting in the Google,
19:51SPEAKERthe tops of searches and stuff like that kind of sucks.
19:55SPEAKERIt's not, when it's good, it's fine.
19:59SPEAKERBut when it's wrong, it's usually hilariously bad.
20:02SPEAKERAnd I worry, I just don't trust it.
20:04SPEAKERI fundamentally don't trust the stuff
20:06SPEAKERthat they're feeding me in the Google searches
20:08SPEAKERand like the mail notification summaries
20:10SPEAKERand all the different places.
20:12SPEAKERAnd so I've shifted my usage to places
20:13SPEAKERthat I don't have to deal with that,
20:14SPEAKERwhich is like my personal choice.
20:16SPEAKERAnd I'm lucky that I'm an independent contractor.
20:18SPEAKERSo I work inside the spaces that people provide me.
20:22SPEAKERAnd then for my own stuff,
20:23SPEAKERI can do whatever the hell I want, which is nice.
20:27SPEAKER- Okay, so WWC, I mean, Google I/O
20:29SPEAKERis almost all AI people at this point.
20:34SPEAKERLike what, you're walking around Shoreline.
20:37SPEAKERFor folks who don't know,
20:38SPEAKERGoogle I/O happens at Shoreline Amphitheater
20:40SPEAKERdown south on the peninsula,
20:42SPEAKERwhich is a place that you go to see Jimmy Buffett
20:44SPEAKERand like Jimmy Eat World.
20:45SPEAKERAnd I guess there's other bands that start with Jimmy.
20:47SPEAKER- I actually saw Jimmy Eat World there last summer.
20:49SPEAKER- Yeah. - Unfortunately, yes.
20:50SPEAKERThat's unfortunately where I got COVID, but yes.
20:53SPEAKER- It's like one of the big open-air amphitheaters.
20:57SPEAKERIt has seats in the front, lawn in the back.
20:59SPEAKERAnd then there's a bunch of like hot dog
21:00SPEAKERand corn dog stands as you walk through
21:02SPEAKERto get to the arena. - Well, those are closed
21:04SPEAKERduring the developer conference.
21:05SPEAKER- Of course they are.
21:06SPEAKERThey can't even- - They get catering.
21:07SPEAKERThey get outside catering to come instead.
21:12SPEAKERAnd it's, the thing is for the developers,
21:15SPEAKERit's fun because they have all these like places
21:18SPEAKERwhere you can like sit.
21:19SPEAKERYou're picnicking and you're meeting people
21:21SPEAKERand you're networking.
21:22SPEAKERAnd they're having talks about everything
21:24SPEAKERfrom Chrome to Gemini to Android development.
21:29SPEAKERSo it's not, you know, there's sandboxes.
21:31SPEAKERThere's, oh, this year they had,
21:35SPEAKERwhat was the bit from arrested development
21:37SPEAKERwith the banana stand?
21:38SPEAKER- Yeah, there's always cats in the banana stand.
21:40SPEAKER- Yeah, they had chocolate covered bananas,
21:42SPEAKERthe chocolate covered nano bananas.
21:44SPEAKER- Okay, is nano the name of the new Android or something?
21:47SPEAKERIs this the snack food?
21:48SPEAKERThey don't do that anymore, right?
21:49SPEAKER- It's the name of the generative art thing.
21:51SPEAKERIt's called nano banana.
21:52SPEAKER- Oh, that's why the banana was on all the stuff
21:54SPEAKERwhen I watched the videos.
21:55SPEAKERI didn't get that because I watched the recaps
21:58SPEAKERand they didn't put the joke in the recap,
22:00SPEAKERbut they were, the joke was everywhere.
22:02SPEAKERAnd I was confused.
22:03SPEAKER- The joke is a big part of it.
22:05SPEAKERThe nano banana joke.
22:10SPEAKERShe's very high up, but she came up with it
22:12SPEAKERin a very cute way, mind you.
22:14SPEAKERIt is a very cute story,
22:16SPEAKERbut it is a big part of the branding
22:18SPEAKERto make it more palatable for people.
22:20SPEAKERIt's, you know, let's make it like, let's give it a mascot.
22:24SPEAKERAnd instead of saying, this is version number whatever,
22:28SPEAKERwe'll say, this is the new nano banana.
22:31SPEAKER- This is the image generator thing?
22:33SPEAKER- Yes. - Okay.
22:35SPEAKER- It's the one that you use inside Gboard.
22:38SPEAKERIt's the one that you use anytime you do an image generator
22:43SPEAKERin Google's ecosystem, it's nano banana.
22:46SPEAKER- It's a terrible name, Flo.
22:49SPEAKER- It's cute.
22:51SPEAKER- Okay, I mean, look.
22:52SPEAKER- It's supposed to be cute.
22:54SPEAKER- Naming stuff is hard, I'm not gonna judge.
22:57SPEAKER- Yes, and these, you know, computer scientists, so.
23:00SPEAKER- Like the thing about Google always was that,
23:02SPEAKERlike you go to Apple or Microsoft or whatever,
23:05SPEAKERand Microsoft seems like there's people in Dockers
23:07SPEAKERand Dockers and golf shirts, and Google is like--
23:11SPEAKER- At least Microsoft had Coca-Cola, okay, actually.
23:15SPEAKERAnd so did Apple, thank God.
23:17SPEAKER- What did, they have Pepsi at Shoreline?
23:20SPEAKERIsn't it a Shoreline venue?
23:21SPEAKERYeah. - Yes, yes.
23:22SPEAKERAnd then in the press room, they didn't have any soda.
23:25SPEAKERThey didn't even have La Croix.
23:27SPEAKER- The influencers don't drink bubbles, man.
23:29SPEAKERIt's just, it's kombucha and...
23:34SPEAKEROkay, so the main stage conference was all AI stuff.
23:38SPEAKERIt was all like Gemini.
23:39SPEAKERI saw a lot of stuff about the Gemini,
23:40SPEAKERthe 4.5, 3.5, something .5.
23:44SPEAKER- I think it's just Gemini 4 now.
23:46SPEAKER- Okay.
23:48SPEAKER- 4.5?
23:49SPEAKERI don't know.
23:50SPEAKER- Does it matter, the variance?
23:52SPEAKER- It does because the higher you go,
23:55SPEAKERthe more powerful it is with what you can do with it
23:57SPEAKERand what you can feed it.
23:59SPEAKER- And the more tokens you spend per query?
24:01SPEAKER- Yeah, exactly.
24:02SPEAKERBut the more it can do and the more it'll think,
24:05SPEAKERit'll take longer to process,
24:07SPEAKERbut it'll think harder and more,
24:09SPEAKERand then use more resources to give you an answer.
24:14SPEAKER- And it seemed like the big brunt of the Android stuff
24:18SPEAKERthis year was new ways that they can jam
24:20SPEAKERthe Gemini stuff into Android.
24:24SPEAKERSo for me, somebody who actively has ignored this stuff,
24:28SPEAKERGemini is the overarching AI brand, right?
24:31SPEAKERAnd then all the other stuff lives up under that,
24:34SPEAKERbut also they're jamming Gemini into every service
24:36SPEAKERthat I've ever used from Google,
24:37SPEAKERit seems like at this point.
24:38SPEAKER- Okay, so here's the way to think about it.
24:40SPEAKERAnd I actually had a chat with the VP
24:45SPEAKERof Android development about this a couple of weeks ago,
24:48SPEAKERbecause I asked him myself, I said,
24:54SPEAKERso what is Gemini to the Android operating system?
24:57SPEAKERAnd he's just like, it's an agent.
25:00SPEAKERThat's all you have to think about it.
25:02SPEAKERSo yes, it's in Google's version of Android
25:06SPEAKERand Google has managed to bring Samsung on board
25:10SPEAKERand all the other manufacturers
25:11SPEAKERthat want to play within its ecosystem
25:15SPEAKERwill include some of that stuff,
25:16SPEAKERbut the real agent is just contained within Gemini.
25:23SPEAKERAnd it's such a big part of the Google ecosystem.
25:28SPEAKERSo the more Google you go with your phone,
25:31SPEAKERthe more Gemini you sort of invite in.
25:35SPEAKER- So, okay, so this is,
25:37SPEAKERI'm gonna ask a really stupid question now
25:39SPEAKERand you can laugh, it's fine.
25:41SPEAKERBut when Google, in the olden times,
25:45SPEAKERback when I used to have a Samsung phone,
25:48SPEAKERSamsung took the basic Android kernel
25:50SPEAKERand then put all their own stuff on top of it
25:52SPEAKERwith mixed results.
25:53SPEAKERIt was kind of up and down for a long time.
25:55SPEAKER- It's very different now.
25:56SPEAKER- Okay.
25:57SPEAKER- And actually, what's really interesting
25:59SPEAKERis what you're describing has been a big friction point
26:03SPEAKERfor a lot of Samsung, like diehard Samsung users,
26:05SPEAKERbecause they liked the stuff,
26:08SPEAKERlike the ability to change the font
26:10SPEAKERand all these other things that you could do.
26:11SPEAKERBut Samsung very slowly has been taking that out every time.
26:17SPEAKERSo Android, the actual Android OS,
26:19SPEAKERthey've been doing a lot of foundational work on it.
26:23SPEAKER- Google has.
26:24SPEAKER- Google has, that's right.
26:27SPEAKERFor it to sort of be able to scale everywhere,
26:30SPEAKERlike that was always the goal,
26:31SPEAKERwas for the Android to be the thing that scales everywhere.
26:33SPEAKERIt's the little thing you plug in
26:35SPEAKERand then you plug in Google into that.
26:38SPEAKER- It's like the Linux kernel for client devices, basically.
26:41SPEAKERIt was there, yeah.
26:43SPEAKER- Their thing is called One UI.
26:45SPEAKERSo it is a different, it's an interface on top of Android,
26:49SPEAKERbuilt on top of Android.
26:50SPEAKER- So it's like a launcher skin or something like that.
26:52SPEAKER- It's more than a skin.
26:54SPEAKER- Okay.
26:54SPEAKER- It is Android.
26:56SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
26:57SPEAKER- It is Android in Samsung's way.
26:58SPEAKERBut when you do that, you get like Bixby,
27:02SPEAKERyou get the Samsung AI stuff and you get Gemini.
27:07SPEAKERAnd now you get Perplexity.
27:09SPEAKER- What's Perplexity?
27:10SPEAKERIs that the Claude stuff?
27:11SPEAKER- It's Claude, you're right.
27:12SPEAKERIt's Claude. - It's Claude.
27:13SPEAKER- I forgot, that's his name.
27:14SPEAKERSee, I.
27:16SPEAKER- Look, I feel less bad for this being inscrutable
27:19SPEAKERbecause it's a lot.
27:20SPEAKERLike the whole thing is.
27:22SPEAKER- I'm just still getting the hang of Gemini
27:24SPEAKERbecause I have to understand it in some sense
27:27SPEAKERto understand what is happening with Android.
27:32SPEAKER- So, okay, so Gemini is the bucket
27:34SPEAKERfor all the AI stuff with Google.
27:37SPEAKERThey're jamming it into everything that they make,
27:39SPEAKERit seems like.
27:40SPEAKERIt seems like that's the core.
27:41SPEAKERGoogle views that as the core product
27:43SPEAKERthat they make at this point.
27:44SPEAKERAnd then everything else seems secondary,
27:46SPEAKERis the vibe I get.
27:48SPEAKER- Oh, that's 1000%.
27:49SPEAKER- Okay. - Yes.
27:50SPEAKER- Does it, and people--
27:51SPEAKER- I mean, it's written right there in front of you
27:53SPEAKERwhen they took Android out of the keynote.
27:55SPEAKER- Yeah, well, but also it seems like by this point,
27:59SPEAKERMeadow would have renamed their company to Gemini
28:01SPEAKERif they were Google, right?
28:04SPEAKERLike this--
28:05SPEAKER- No, because Google still, I think the Google brand--
28:09SPEAKER- It's still a sub-brand under Alphabet.
28:10SPEAKERI looked it up before we started talking about this.
28:12SPEAKER- It does, but Alphabet is the investor.
28:15SPEAKERIt's the investor folder.
28:16SPEAKERLike when you think of Alphabet.
28:18SPEAKERYou never talk about Alphabet as an entity.
28:21SPEAKERIt's just the investor folder
28:22SPEAKERand Google is the big brand name.
28:24SPEAKERThat's the big brand that's behind everything.
28:26SPEAKERSo like when I tell people Google is behind Waymo,
28:29SPEAKERthey're like, "Oh, yeah."
28:31SPEAKER- Oh, people don't know that?
28:33SPEAKERThat's wild to me.
28:34SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, there are people who have no idea
28:36SPEAKERabout all this tech oligarchy that exists.
28:41SPEAKERTo which I say, I'm so jealous.
28:43SPEAKER(laughing)
28:46SPEAKER- At this point, it's funny 'cause living in this space,
28:51SPEAKERI always assume that everybody knows,
28:53SPEAKERlike I assume that the people who are into these things
28:56SPEAKERknow the things that are common.
28:58SPEAKERLike, hey, RAM costs four times what it did this year,
29:01SPEAKERthis time last year.
29:03SPEAKERAnd it turns out the people who understand that
29:06SPEAKERand know that and have internalized that
29:07SPEAKERare just a tiny, tiny, they're the bubbles of sea foam
29:11SPEAKERon top of a very deep ocean of people
29:12SPEAKERwho are blissfully unaware, yeah.
29:14SPEAKER- It was perfect metaphor, by the way, for the Bay Area
29:17SPEAKERbecause there's a lot of that.
29:19SPEAKER- Look, there's gonna be a lot of people
29:20SPEAKERthat are really surprised that their iPhones cost,
29:22SPEAKERor their Pixels cost two grand this year, I think.
29:26SPEAKER- I am asking myself if I'm going to upgrade
29:29SPEAKERbecause I upgrade every year
29:30SPEAKERjust so that I'm on the latest Pixel and then I own it.
29:32SPEAKERSo it's my phone that I'm using.
29:36SPEAKERBut even I'm wondering to myself,
29:37SPEAKERlike, am I really going to want to do that?
29:39SPEAKERI probably will still do it for the bit.
29:42SPEAKERIt's an anecdote at the end of the day,
29:45SPEAKERbut I won't be happy about it.
29:47SPEAKER- So I, it's funny, I used to be an every year upgrader
29:50SPEAKERand now I just do it every two or three years
29:52SPEAKERand it turns out I'm fine.
29:55SPEAKER- It's because I cover phones.
29:56SPEAKERIf I did not cover phones the way that I do,
29:59SPEAKERI think I would be a lot more lax on it.
30:01SPEAKERAnd I miss being that way, I do, but.
30:04SPEAKER- Yeah, okay, so what's happening in Android?
30:07SPEAKERIs there anything interesting happening in Android
30:09SPEAKERthat's not AI?
30:10SPEAKERI guess is my big million dollar question.
30:13SPEAKER- Should we ask Gemini?
30:15SPEAKER- No, no, that's the problem.
30:18SPEAKER- I'm kidding.
30:19SPEAKER- I switched, Flo, I'm paying for Kagi now.
30:23SPEAKERI switched search for, like, I've switched search
30:26SPEAKERa couple of times in the past 10 years,
30:28SPEAKERbut I have stopped using Google on the day-to-day
30:31SPEAKERbecause I got, I literally, I can't remember what I asked now
30:36SPEAKERbut I asked it something and it gave me an answer
30:38SPEAKERand I was like, this is the most,
30:40SPEAKERthis is absolutely ludicrous.
30:41SPEAKERI'm going to signal my dislike of this new technology
30:48SPEAKERby disengaging as much as possible.
30:51SPEAKERAlso, I know that Kagi has an AI tier.
30:53SPEAKERI'm not paying for the AI tier.
30:55SPEAKERI'm just using the give me search like it's 2010 tier
30:58SPEAKER'cause, like, I want to go back to the good days,
31:00SPEAKERthe good times.
31:01SPEAKER- You know if there's a, you could use a URL.
31:03SPEAKER- Yeah, it's enough of a pain in the butt
31:05SPEAKERto make that happen that the UTM 14 or whatever.
31:09SPEAKER- The other thing is they put it right there
31:11SPEAKERin the little carousel at the top.
31:12SPEAKERSo you're like, you're supposed to scroll over to web mode
31:15SPEAKERand click into it.
31:17SPEAKER- Too many clicks.
31:18SPEAKER- I know, I know.
31:20SPEAKER- I just want to type something in my browser location bar.
31:23SPEAKER- But back to your question, Android is still
31:26SPEAKERthe most customizable mobile operating system.
31:29SPEAKER- Okay.
31:30SPEAKER- So it's still, you could do so much with it.
31:34SPEAKERAnd I know that that doesn't sound like much
31:37SPEAKERwith everything that's happening with AI.
31:41SPEAKERAnd I still think one of the big issues with Android
31:43SPEAKERis that it is too much of a blank canvas
31:46SPEAKERfor a lot of people.
31:48SPEAKERThey really like the way that Apple presents it for them.
31:51SPEAKERThey really like the package and everything.
31:53SPEAKERThey're like, this is great.
31:54SPEAKERI'd rather have this than whatever that is.
31:56SPEAKERBut then there's people like me
31:58SPEAKERwho like to use automation apps
32:02SPEAKERand like to have all these like little smart home things
32:07SPEAKERthat are turned on by random devices.
32:11SPEAKERLike just the ability to be able to do that
32:14SPEAKERmakes me very happy.
32:15SPEAKERBecause like, that's exactly why I'm still using.
32:18SPEAKER- Well, it seems like the parody is there on both.
32:22SPEAKERLike there's very little difference.
32:24SPEAKERWhen I watch the keynote for this
32:26SPEAKERand watch the Apple keynote
32:27SPEAKERand like everybody's talking about,
32:28SPEAKERhey man, we have this that does--
32:30SPEAKER- Or are you talking about like icons and things like that?
32:34SPEAKER- The design I don't care about.
32:35SPEAKERThe designs come and go.
32:37SPEAKERI was in a meeting earlier today
32:38SPEAKERwhere people were working on a game
32:39SPEAKERand they were showing one of the designers
32:43SPEAKERwho was a child when you and I were both working already
32:47SPEAKERwas talking about digging up old skeuomorphic phone OS designs
32:52SPEAKERas a reference point for this game that they're working on.
32:54SPEAKERI was like, oh my God, I just turned to dust.
32:56SPEAKERPeople are nostalgic about the wooden bookshelves at iOS.
33:00SPEAKER- One of my Gen Z friends got a fruitager arrow tattoo.
33:04SPEAKERGorgeous tattoo.
33:06SPEAKER- Yeah.
33:07SPEAKER- But when I realized that that was like a really big part
33:10SPEAKERof their zeitgeist, I was floored.
33:13SPEAKERAnyway.
33:14SPEAKER- I don't think I even know what that is, Flo.
33:15SPEAKER- Fruitager arrow.
33:16SPEAKERIf it, sorry, search it.
33:19SPEAKERYes.
33:21SPEAKERIt's like Windows 8 era.
33:24SPEAKER- No, this is Windows XP, isn't it?
33:27SPEAKER- No, this is Vista.
33:27SPEAKER- Oh, this is like mid-2000s, yeah, yeah.
33:29SPEAKER- This is Vista.
33:30SPEAKER- Vista, yeah, yeah.
33:31SPEAKERArrow is Vista.
33:32SPEAKERLuna was XP.
33:34SPEAKERWow, that's wild.
33:36SPEAKEROkay, so--
33:37SPEAKER- Side note.
33:38SPEAKER- Yeah, no, no, but I'm looking at the list of things
33:41SPEAKERthat they're rolling out and none of it's revolutionary.
33:44SPEAKERIt seems like it's actually almost all,
33:46SPEAKERit's like, hey, you can scan your receipts
33:48SPEAKERand it'll OCR them all automatically
33:50SPEAKERusing the power of Gemini.
33:51SPEAKEROr you can recap a book.
33:54SPEAKERYou can get CliffsNotes generated by Gemini.
33:56SPEAKEROr you can detect scams.
33:59SPEAKERAnd like, the thing that I miss about Android,
34:04SPEAKERand I'm curious about where it's at,
34:05SPEAKERis like, I mean, I switched to Linux last year
34:08SPEAKERand I'm not probably ever going back at this point.
34:10SPEAKERSpoilers for the--
34:12SPEAKER- One of those.
34:14SPEAKER- Look, I have had the beard for it for a long time,
34:16SPEAKERso I might as well get in there.
34:19SPEAKERBut it's, the beautiful thing about it
34:22SPEAKERis that you can make it exactly what you want, right?
34:26SPEAKER- Yes, you still can.
34:27SPEAKER- The desktop environment, how the computer works.
34:30SPEAKER- Well, that's why I thought about that,
34:31SPEAKERis because I turned my phone on
34:33SPEAKERand I just have the very simple Niagara launcher,
34:35SPEAKERand yes, my Dutchie.
34:39SPEAKERYou know.
34:40SPEAKER- Yeah, so you can still rip out
34:42SPEAKERall of the stuff that you don't want
34:44SPEAKERand put whatever you want in.
34:45SPEAKERThey haven't locked it down to that point at this point.
34:48SPEAKER- Not all of them.
34:49SPEAKERAnd people are still doing interesting things.
34:51SPEAKERBut also, the phones are more interesting.
34:53SPEAKERLike, this one has...
34:56SPEAKERThis one has RGB lights on it.
35:00SPEAKER- I'm probably good.
35:02SPEAKER- RGB lights.
35:03SPEAKER- Okay, that is pretty sick.
35:05SPEAKER- And it has a cooling fan,
35:09SPEAKERwhich you can maybe hear.
35:10SPEAKER- Nope, I have enough fans in my life.
35:12SPEAKERI don't want more fans.
35:13SPEAKER- I know you do.
35:14SPEAKERIt also has liquid cooling.
35:15SPEAKER- Nope, that's too much.
35:16SPEAKERIs this a gaming phone?
35:17SPEAKERIs this a sick gaming phone?
35:19SPEAKER- Yeah, it's the Red Magic 11S.
35:20SPEAKERAnd then I've got the nothing phone here
35:22SPEAKERwith the time on the back.
35:24SPEAKER- Why does it have time on the back?
35:25SPEAKER- Why not?
35:26SPEAKER- I don't ever look at that side.
35:27SPEAKERThat's the side for other people to look at.
35:29SPEAKER- I know.
35:30SPEAKERWell, I put it face down. - It has two sevens on it.
35:31SPEAKER- And I look at the--
35:33SPEAKER- 707. - 707.
35:35SPEAKER- It's 708 now.
35:36SPEAKERDid it change? - Yup, it did.
35:37SPEAKER- Okay, see, my phone is the most accurate clock
35:40SPEAKERever made by man,
35:41SPEAKER'cause it uses the power of time servers or something.
35:44SPEAKERI don't know.
35:46SPEAKERSo, okay, so was there good stuff on the AI front?
35:49SPEAKERWas there stuff that was exciting?
35:52SPEAKERThis seems like a kind of, you know--
35:54SPEAKER- You know people who have the luxury
35:56SPEAKERof being able to afford an assistant.
35:59SPEAKER- Yeah, I've heard of that.
36:00SPEAKER- Yes, and their life, they get that stuff taken care of.
36:04SPEAKERSo there's a goal.
36:06SPEAKERMy understanding is there's a goal
36:08SPEAKERthat Google is trying to bring this sort of experience
36:11SPEAKERto the platform, and I can see what they are attempting,
36:14SPEAKERbecause their big thing this last Google I/O
36:18SPEAKERwas the daily brief, and I wake up every morning,
36:21SPEAKERand it basically reads my email, and my calendar,
36:26SPEAKERand my messages, and says what's coming up.
36:29SPEAKER- I mean, that kind of stuff,
36:31SPEAKERI like to think of that as interpretive AI,
36:33SPEAKERand that feels good to me.
36:35SPEAKERI realize that there's some fundamental problems
36:37SPEAKERwith the technology.
36:39SPEAKER- Here's the thing.
36:40SPEAKER- Yeah.
36:41SPEAKER- And I'm not gonna lie about this.
36:43SPEAKER- Does it work?
36:44SPEAKER- It works way too well,
36:46SPEAKERbecause I gave Google complete access
36:49SPEAKERto my personal information for it to be able to do that.
36:53SPEAKERSo the problem is, and this is where people get sucked in,
36:59SPEAKERis because you get into the chatbot,
37:01SPEAKERand then, and I know this goes beyond Android,
37:03SPEAKERand I'm sorry, I know AI--
37:05SPEAKER- No, no, the chatbot-- - A lot of people--
37:08SPEAKER- Yeah. - Yeah.
37:09SPEAKER- But I do interact with the chatbot,
37:11SPEAKERand the way it will reference private things
37:16SPEAKERthat I have spoken to it about,
37:18SPEAKERbecause I'll, like, I will talk to it,
37:20SPEAKERlike, I'll use it for, like, trying to prompt myself
37:24SPEAKERso I can write something or whatever.
37:27SPEAKEROh, I was also, I fed it my LiveJournal archives.
37:32SPEAKER- What? - This was a bad idea.
37:33SPEAKER- Oh, Flo, this is a bad idea.
37:35SPEAKER- It's up there.
37:37SPEAKER- I fed it my LiveJournal archives
37:39SPEAKERbecause I'm working on a memoir,
37:42SPEAKERand it started referencing them in its replies to me,
37:46SPEAKERand there was this one point
37:48SPEAKERwhere we were talking about something unrelated,
37:51SPEAKERand then it said to me,
37:53SPEAKER"But that's because you're a hot topic girl,
37:56SPEAKER"not an Abercrombie girl,"
37:58SPEAKERwhich is something that I-- - Well, I mean, that is real.
38:01SPEAKER- It is real, because I had written it in my LiveJournal
38:04SPEAKERin the 2000s, and it-- (laughing)
38:08SPEAKER- You know, you know, when they say
38:10SPEAKERthat everything you ever post on the internet's
38:11SPEAKERgonna be there forever and it's gonna come back to haunt you,
38:13SPEAKERI didn't expect you to feed that
38:15SPEAKERinto the machine voluntarily.
38:16SPEAKER- Yeah, this is the HTML files that I extracted
38:18SPEAKERand took off the website-- - Oh, yeah.
38:21SPEAKER- Before the Russians bought it, so--
38:23SPEAKER- Yeah.
38:24SPEAKER- But then I fed it back into the computer,
38:27SPEAKERand it's been interesting, I've been very curious
38:29SPEAKERto see how personal it's gonna get with me
38:31SPEAKERwith this information of mine,
38:33SPEAKERand I've been telling, like, I'll tell a couple Googlers,
38:36SPEAKERyeah, like, Gemini and I kind of went
38:39SPEAKERa little too far the other day, you know?
38:41SPEAKERIt's like, yeah. - You made big eyes there.
38:43SPEAKERSo, okay, so I did this, I didn't send it in my LiveJournal
38:47SPEAKER'cause I'm too old to have a LiveJournal,
38:48SPEAKERbut I did, I talked about it a couple weeks ago
38:51SPEAKERin the episode, but I set up OpenClaw locally
38:55SPEAKERand was running local models on it
38:58SPEAKERand gave it access, read-only access through the API
39:01SPEAKERto my FastMail email archive,
39:04SPEAKERwhich also gave it my calendar,
39:06SPEAKERalso gave it my calendar and gave it,
39:09SPEAKERI think, access to BlueBubbles,
39:11SPEAKERbut all read-only 'cause I'm nervous about writing,
39:14SPEAKERand BlueBubbles is the thing that lets you get iMessages
39:16SPEAKERon Android and iOS and, oh, yeah,
39:19SPEAKERAndroid and Linux and Windows.
39:21SPEAKERSo it had text messages, basically,
39:23SPEAKERand I ginned up my own, hey, every morning at six o'clock,
39:29SPEAKERgive me the rundown of the emails
39:32SPEAKERthat I need to make sure I don't miss,
39:34SPEAKER'cause I'm sure you're in a similar situation.
39:38SPEAKERI have about 15 email inboxes.
39:41SPEAKERAll of them occasionally get something important in them,
39:43SPEAKERbut some of them also get 500 messages a day
39:46SPEAKERthat are 99% spam, and it's a problem to sort through them,
39:52SPEAKERand this is literally the first time in the last 15 years
39:57SPEAKERthat I've had a tool that managed that.
39:59SPEAKER- Since Google killed Inbox,
40:01SPEAKERthis is the first time I've had a tool
40:03SPEAKERthat managed that well.
40:04SPEAKER- Well, they took the guts
40:05SPEAKERand they integrated it into Gmail, and then--
40:08SPEAKER- Nope, they made it worse.
40:09SPEAKERYeah, look, you're not here to take Google's heads.
40:14SPEAKERThey made it to us. - No, I'm not.
40:17SPEAKERI just, I wanted to just also say
40:20SPEAKERthat my husband had OpenClaw go and scrape
40:23SPEAKERfor his LiveJournal because after the Russians
40:25SPEAKERbought LiveJournal, yes, the Russians, sorry,
40:28SPEAKERI'm not saying all Russians, it's not all Russians.
40:31SPEAKER- It's a Russian oligarch bought LiveJournal, right, yeah.
40:34SPEAKER- Some Russian people bought LiveJournal
40:35SPEAKERand they removed the ability to export the data
40:40SPEAKERbecause that's not in their digital constitution
40:42SPEAKERor whatever, they don't have to offer that.
40:44SPEAKERSo he sent OpenClaw to go scrape it for him
40:47SPEAKERand they ended up blocking him.
40:50SPEAKER- Oh, 'cause he hit it too fast.
40:51SPEAKER- Because he sent OpenClaw to do it, yeah.
40:53SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
40:55SPEAKERWell, but the OpenClaw thing, like it didn't really--
40:57SPEAKER- FYI, for anybody who tries that.
40:59SPEAKER- Until I rebooted that machine
41:01SPEAKERand I hadn't saved my stuff right
41:02SPEAKERso that it saved the memory files and all that
41:05SPEAKERand then I had to recreate all the work
41:06SPEAKERand I haven't done that yet, it was incredible
41:08SPEAKER'cause it gave me a look at my appointments,
41:11SPEAKERwhat I needed to do to prepare for stuff,
41:13SPEAKERit looked at my to-do list, it looked at all that
41:15SPEAKERand it was like, it was a legit productivity thing.
41:18SPEAKERIt was the closest I've ever had
41:19SPEAKERto having an assistant, right,
41:21SPEAKERhaving somebody help me manage my time
41:24SPEAKERand the work that I need to do.
41:26SPEAKER- So I totally get that.
41:28SPEAKERI'm also super-skeezed out by giving Google access
41:32SPEAKERto that same information. - Yeah, it is.
41:34SPEAKERI sort of offered myself--
41:36SPEAKER- I mean, you're doing it for science, that's fine.
41:39SPEAKER- And I have been for a really long time.
41:41SPEAKERI've been doing this for 15 years,
41:43SPEAKERfeeding them my data and doing all of this and--
41:47SPEAKER- Do you ever wonder what their file on you looks like?
41:50SPEAKER- I get, I feel like I get inklings
41:53SPEAKERand sometimes I do worry, I sometimes do worry.
41:57SPEAKER- They have that life of your own too, you know.
41:59SPEAKER- I know that, I know from my husband working
42:02SPEAKERin Silicon Valley that it really is just as easy
42:05SPEAKERas just going into a folder and seeing data.
42:09SPEAKER- Yeah. - It's there.
42:13SPEAKER- Do you, I like that they did the airdrop thing,
42:16SPEAKERthat's exciting, they added airdrop support.
42:18SPEAKER- They half worked with Apple on that
42:20SPEAKERand then the other half is they just backwards
42:23SPEAKERwork something to make it work on their end.
42:28SPEAKER- That's fun, I mean, there's,
42:30SPEAKERI think there's like three tiers of airdrop support
42:32SPEAKERon the iOS side, there's like the direct point-to-point one
42:35SPEAKERthat's kind of iffy and if you walk away too soon
42:37SPEAKERthen the file just doesn't, it just disappears
42:39SPEAKERinto the ether and then Apple added some newer stuff
42:43SPEAKERthat basically says, hey, here's a token
42:47SPEAKERthat lets you download this file
42:48SPEAKERthat the other person will upload as soon
42:50SPEAKERas their internet connection. - Like a street pass, yeah.
42:52SPEAKER- Yeah, it's street pass but with a payload, basically.
42:57SPEAKERIt's like a malware delivery used for good, not evil.
43:01SPEAKERBut yeah, it's like, it feels very different
43:04SPEAKERthan the olden days when you would go to the Android or iOS
43:07SPEAKERand iOS was the same thing, where you go
43:11SPEAKERto the new feature page list and it's like,
43:13SPEAKERhey, here's 355 new features each of,
43:19SPEAKERand it wasn't like all of them were gonna matter to you
43:21SPEAKERbut some large percentage of them were things
43:23SPEAKERthat were like, oh, I actually will use this,
43:25SPEAKERoh, this sounds good, oh, the game controllers work now,
43:27SPEAKERthat seems nice and now, you know, now it's like,
43:30SPEAKERhey, you can get all the dresses that look like this
43:33SPEAKERfrom your shopping app.
43:34SPEAKER- No, and yes, that is like a big thing that they,
43:37SPEAKERI think they're trying way too hard
43:39SPEAKERto try to get the mainstream because they want
43:42SPEAKERwhat Apple has with influencers so bad.
43:46SPEAKERLike that's why Apple now has more journalists
43:50SPEAKERon the campus is because the influencers were like,
43:53SPEAKERyou need to let us in and they had to eventually let them in
43:59SPEAKERand they figured out a way to do that
44:01SPEAKERand Google is very jealous of that,
44:04SPEAKEReven when they have tried to give like product
44:06SPEAKERto these influencers, the influencers don't end up using
44:10SPEAKERany of that stuff.
44:11SPEAKERAnd it's frustrating because there are some reasons
44:14SPEAKERlike I love all of the call screening stuff
44:16SPEAKERthat the Pixel does.
44:18SPEAKERFor me, that's totally worth,
44:19SPEAKERthat and the camera algorithms are worth it for me
44:24SPEAKERjust from the Pixel alone.
44:26SPEAKER- Tell me about the camera stuff.
44:29SPEAKER- Well, just, I just, I like the way that,
44:35SPEAKERsee, I'm a little hesitant because I've been liking it
44:39SPEAKERup until the Pixel 10 Pro, things are starting to change
44:42SPEAKERa little bit now that they want you to really go
44:44SPEAKERinto Google Photos and have Gemini.
44:47SPEAKER- Oh, soup up your business?
44:49SPEAKER- They want Gemini to soup it up.
44:51SPEAKERSo what they started doing, I noticed,
44:53SPEAKERso I noticed this when I reviewed the Pixel 10a
44:56SPEAKERand the Pixel 10a is the budget version
45:00SPEAKERof the last Pixel flagship.
45:02SPEAKERSo the A series is the budget version
45:04SPEAKERof it's the iPhone E, right?
45:06SPEAKER- Okay.
45:09SPEAKER- They, where was I going with this?
45:12SPEAKERThey have an actual tuning algorithm
45:17SPEAKERwhen you shoot photos with the 10a
45:20SPEAKERbecause it only has basically like one main sensor.
45:24SPEAKER- Oh, so they're not doing the multi-camera bracketing thing?
45:28SPEAKERYeah, yeah.
45:29SPEAKER- But the other thing is it's tuning it a little bit
45:31SPEAKERbecause the photos that I take with the Pixel 10 Pro
45:35SPEAKERare very, very plain.
45:38SPEAKERThey're not very post-processed because they want you
45:41SPEAKERto go in and do all of that with Gemini
45:44SPEAKERand Google Photos after. - Oh, no thanks.
45:46SPEAKER- And also all this stuff that they've been doing
45:49SPEAKERwith Super Zoom has been not good.
45:52SPEAKERThe concert pictures that I've been taking this year
45:55SPEAKERwith the Pixel 10 Pro have not been as nice
45:59SPEAKERas I've wanted them to be
46:00SPEAKERbecause the Zoom is so digital. - What is Super Zoom?
46:03SPEAKEROh, it's digital Zoom with AI Phil?
46:05SPEAKER- It's 100x, yeah, digital Zoom.
46:07SPEAKER- 100x? - Yeah.
46:09SPEAKER- That's too much. - Because Samsung did it
46:11SPEAKERwith the Galaxy Ultra series and so Google was like,
46:15SPEAKERwell, we can do that with Gemini or whatever with our AI.
46:19SPEAKER- Wait, hold on.
46:20SPEAKERHow is that different than when Samsung got in trouble
46:22SPEAKERfor replacing your picture of the moon
46:24SPEAKERwith their picture of the moon?
46:26SPEAKER- The thing is they still kind of do that.
46:29SPEAKER- That's what AI is doing if they're upscaling with AI.
46:31SPEAKER- Yes, when you take a picture of an airplane far away,
46:34SPEAKERthe AI is correcting the lines on that wing for you
46:38SPEAKERbefore you actually see the picture.
46:41SPEAKER- Yeah, that's wild.
46:42SPEAKERThat's a choice.
46:44SPEAKEROkay, I went and bought an SLR a few weeks ago
46:49SPEAKERand I'm just taking old school photographs again
46:53SPEAKERby holding, I put manual lenses on it, Flo.
46:56SPEAKERThis is, I think I'm reverting to the 90s
46:58SPEAKERis what's happening. - Oh, I'm taking my 3DS
46:59SPEAKERout for a spin.
47:00SPEAKERThat's the new thing now to take to shows, by the way,
47:03SPEAKERis the DS. - People street passing again?
47:05SPEAKER- Yes, Will, the-- - Really?
47:07SPEAKER- Gen Z is bringing the DS back.
47:10SPEAKER- Well, okay.
47:11SPEAKER- And they take, and they film concerts with it
47:13SPEAKERand then they put 'em on YouTube.
47:15SPEAKER- With the 3DS?
47:16SPEAKERThat's insane. - Yes!
47:17SPEAKER- That's not a good idea. - Well, and all the DS's
47:18SPEAKERwith the cameras on them.
47:19SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, yeah, everybody's DSI finally is useful.
47:22SPEAKER- Yeah.
47:24SPEAKER- Have you been to, do you know about
47:25SPEAKERthe electronics flea market down south?
47:27SPEAKERThe Bay Area electronics flea market?
47:29SPEAKER- Yes, I do.
47:30SPEAKER- Okay.
47:31SPEAKER- I've been going to that for the last few years.
47:34SPEAKERIt's like the second Saturday of summer months,
47:36SPEAKERbasically from March to September.
47:38SPEAKERFor a long time, it was a bunch of people--
47:40SPEAKER- God, I need to go to those.
47:41SPEAKERSorry, I collect Tamagotchi.
47:43SPEAKERI should be going to that.
47:45SPEAKER- So, for the first year or so I went,
47:48SPEAKERit was a bunch of guys that looked like me,
47:50SPEAKERexcept for 10 or 15 years older.
47:52SPEAKERAnd it was very much shit that I stole from my office
47:55SPEAKER20 years ago and now I need to get out of the garage
47:57SPEAKER'cause I'm cleaning out the garage.
47:59SPEAKERAnd then last year, the year before,
48:02SPEAKERwe started seeing kids coming in and they were like,
48:04SPEAKERhey, does he move any mini disc players?
48:07SPEAKER- Oh, I know where you're going with this.
48:09SPEAKER- And now it's gone from one or two kids per week,
48:15SPEAKERper every month to a pretty good cohort.
48:18SPEAKERNow they're moving around in gaggles.
48:20SPEAKERAnd they're looking for old MP3 players
48:23SPEAKERand cassette tape players and--
48:25SPEAKER- The eBay prices of MP3 players now,
48:28SPEAKERI'm trying to like add to my Sony collection.
48:30SPEAKERNot a good time.
48:31SPEAKERNot a good time for collecting.
48:33SPEAKER- I just replaced the battery in my Zune HD the other day.
48:36SPEAKERI'm Zune-ing again.
48:40SPEAKER- I would like to show you. - Blow is reaching off screen.
48:43SPEAKER- So, first of all, vintage Sanrio 10 right here.
48:48SPEAKERWell, and then this Sony MP3, which actually, no,
48:52SPEAKERI did not have when I started at Maxim MPC
48:54SPEAKER'cause my ex-boyfriend wore it when he got in a fight
48:57SPEAKERand it got broken.
49:00SPEAKERThis is the, this is a new, well, I bought--
49:03SPEAKER- Hold on, was that covered in your live journal?
49:06SPEAKER- Yes.
49:07SPEAKERActually, it's part of the lore
49:11SPEAKERand I've told Andy the story several times
49:13SPEAKERabout like my deadbeat boyfriends
49:14SPEAKERwho've broken my gadgets over the years.
49:17SPEAKERBecause I always had gadgets and deadbeat boyfriends,
49:19SPEAKERbut that's another story for another day.
49:20SPEAKER- Yeah, that's a different podcast.
49:22SPEAKER- Yeah, that's a different podcast.
49:25SPEAKERAnyway, I bought one of the last Sony MP3 players
49:28SPEAKERthat they made with a removable hard drive
49:30SPEAKERand a removable battery.
49:33SPEAKER- Oh, nice.
49:34SPEAKER- And there's such an incredible modding community now.
49:38SPEAKER- All of them.
49:39SPEAKER- Yeah.
49:40SPEAKER- They all have modding communities.
49:41SPEAKERLike the iPad, the iPod, the Zunes,
49:44SPEAKERthose bad creative players that were never good,
49:46SPEAKERbut some people liked--
49:47SPEAKER- Excuse me, I had the Creative Zen Vision M.
49:50SPEAKER- Yep.
49:51SPEAKER- That one. - Yeah, I know.
49:52SPEAKERYeah, it was, yeah, anyway.
49:55SPEAKER- Yeah, the kids are into the old disconnected business
49:58SPEAKERand don't want Spotify or even--
50:00SPEAKER- I got myself an MP3 player.
50:01SPEAKERI got one of those cheapo ones on Amazon.
50:04SPEAKERAnd I've been loving the heck out of it.
50:06SPEAKERIt has Bluetooth 5.3.
50:08SPEAKERSo it's got really good range
50:11SPEAKERand I am just like, I listen to it with my Sonys.
50:13SPEAKER- So I love, I fixed the Zune up.
50:17SPEAKERI found it when I was cleaning up my office a few months ago
50:19SPEAKERand I was like, oh, the battery's dead, this sucks.
50:21SPEAKERAnd then I started looking at it
50:21SPEAKERand I did the whole thing to fix it.
50:23SPEAKERWe talked about it.
50:24SPEAKER- And then you saw the forums.
50:25SPEAKER- Yeah, look, I went and bought a dodgy battery
50:28SPEAKERon AliExpress and then it had to do some soldering
50:31SPEAKERand I cleaned out a bunch of weird corrosion
50:33SPEAKERand it's all good now.
50:35SPEAKERBut it also was like a time capsule
50:36SPEAKERof the last time I synced that thing in 2012,
50:39SPEAKERwhich was awesome.
50:40SPEAKERAnd it's lovely to go on walks and not have
50:45SPEAKERthe phone going beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep
50:48SPEAKERthe whole time. - I agree.
50:49SPEAKERI've been really enjoying just going with the music.
50:52SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
50:53SPEAKER- 'Cause I started doing the thing
50:54SPEAKERwhere I would be on my daily walks with my head craned
50:57SPEAKERin my phone, reading social media.
50:59SPEAKERWhy are you doing that?
51:00SPEAKER- No, the social media's bad for us, it turns out.
51:02SPEAKER- It is.
51:04SPEAKER- So, okay, back to the topic.
51:07SPEAKERWhat, what, is there anything out of IO
51:10SPEAKERthat you were, that genuinely made you go,
51:13SPEAKERoh man, this is really exciting.
51:16SPEAKERI'm thrilled about this.
51:19SPEAKEROr what made you excited, I guess,
51:21SPEAKERis maybe the less loaded way to ask that question.
51:25SPEAKER- I actually am excited about some of the,
51:28SPEAKERthe agency of the AI.
51:32SPEAKER- The agent stuff is interesting.
51:35SPEAKER- I say with a grimace.
51:36SPEAKER- Asterisk, yeah, some of it.
51:39SPEAKERI think if I was a programmer,
51:40SPEAKERI'd probably be more interested.
51:43SPEAKER- I agree with you, I agree with you.
51:44SPEAKER- It seems like the one place
51:45SPEAKERthat it's unequivocally people seem to like,
51:48SPEAKERand not just people like me
51:50SPEAKERthat don't really know what I'm doing,
51:51SPEAKERbut when I talk to people who I consider
51:54SPEAKERto be smart programmer types,
51:56SPEAKERthey're like, oh yeah, this is actually
51:58SPEAKERmaking me more productive.
52:00SPEAKER- Well, I'm thinking about it from an assistant standpoint,
52:03SPEAKERbecause I'm thinking about all the,
52:05SPEAKERso I'm thinking about all the stupid,
52:08SPEAKERall the stupid things that I have to take care of,
52:11SPEAKERlike managing, okay, it's not stupid.
52:14SPEAKERI love her, but managing my daughter's social life,
52:16SPEAKERit's like another thing that I have to manage,
52:19SPEAKERon top of mine, on top of all the other stuff
52:22SPEAKERgoing on in the suburbs.
52:23SPEAKERI'm trying to be a good townsperson.
52:25SPEAKERAt the same time, I've got a really demanding job,
52:28SPEAKERand having a little, the idea of having Gemini Spark
52:33SPEAKERthat I could kind of tell it like,
52:34SPEAKERI need you to go help me figure out
52:36SPEAKERwhat I'm gonna do with 15 kids on this day,
52:40SPEAKERlike between these two locations in the Bay Area,
52:42SPEAKERmake sure that nobody has to take 880 to get there.
52:47SPEAKERSincerely, the ability to be able to do that,
52:49SPEAKERlike that's the emotional labor I want to give to AI.
52:53SPEAKER- Well, yeah, it's funny,
52:54SPEAKERmy wife and I talk about this a lot.
52:56SPEAKERThe cognitive load of being a mom is high and underreported,
53:01SPEAKERand she follows, it's funny,
53:03SPEAKERshe sent me a couple of TikTokers that she follows,
53:05SPEAKERI started watching them, I was like,
53:06SPEAKERoh Jesus, this is a thing I do, and I don't even realize it,
53:10SPEAKERwhich is good, because knowing is the first part
53:12SPEAKERof fixing the problem, it turns out.
53:14SPEAKERBut yeah, the managing, I think it's funny,
53:19SPEAKERI had a demo a few years ago that was a good pitch,
53:23SPEAKERand the demo went really badly,
53:25SPEAKERbut they were like, hey, have you ever had a barbecue?
53:28SPEAKERAnd I was like, yeah, I used to do that,
53:29SPEAKERI used to have people come over to my house
53:30SPEAKERevery Friday night and we played rock band.
53:33SPEAKERAnd then the cognitive load of that became such a problem,
53:36SPEAKERwell, A, nobody wanted to play rock band after a while,
53:39SPEAKERbut B, the cognitive load of managing
53:41SPEAKERwhat should everybody bring became kind of like
53:44SPEAKERa full Friday afternoon job, and it's like, oh, okay.
53:51SPEAKER'Cause if you just put up a spreadsheet that's like,
53:53SPEAKERhey, we're having a barbecue on Saturday,
53:54SPEAKEReverybody put down what you're bringing,
53:56SPEAKERthen you get a whole buttload of La Croix
53:59SPEAKERand a bunch of potato chips and three packages
54:01SPEAKERof two bite brownies and one pack of hot dogs,
54:04SPEAKERand there's 30 people around looking at six hot dogs,
54:07SPEAKERlike we're gonna stab somebody.
54:09SPEAKERAnd if you add in the complexity of scheduling that,
54:12SPEAKERso you're like, hey, what weekend can everybody
54:13SPEAKERgo to a barbecue, and you send that out to 20 people,
54:16SPEAKERthen you might as well have another job.
54:19SPEAKER- It's awful. - Yeah.
54:20SPEAKER- It's awful. - Yeah, so I totally get that.
54:24SPEAKERAnd I think, if they can deliver on that,
54:26SPEAKERit's a really good thing, and it's not generative,
54:28SPEAKERit doesn't feel icky, it feels like an actual
54:31SPEAKERpositive use of technology to me.
54:33SPEAKER- But I did write the caveat is that you have to give it
54:36SPEAKERaccess to all of your personal information,
54:38SPEAKERand I guess technically you would do that
54:41SPEAKERwith a human assistant too, but at least
54:44SPEAKERthe human assistant, you can physically see them,
54:46SPEAKERand how all that manifests. - Yeah, you can fire them
54:49SPEAKERif they annoy you, and Google I can't fire,
54:51SPEAKERI'm stuck with Google.
54:52SPEAKER- And the thing is, they are gonna make a big to-do
54:56SPEAKERabout like, well, you can go in and you can edit stuff,
54:59SPEAKERand you can say what it has access to,
55:01SPEAKERyou can tell it to forget stuff,
55:03SPEAKERand I think it's because they know,
55:04SPEAKERthat it's a very creepy thing to sell people on.
55:08SPEAKER- Like, this is the other time I get to this point
55:11SPEAKERand I ask myself, what are they getting out?
55:14SPEAKERLike, are they charging, is this a paid service?
55:16SPEAKERDo you have to pay into Google One to get this?
55:22SPEAKER- Not yet.
55:23SPEAKER- Yeah, so they're giving us the first case for free.
55:25SPEAKER- But some services will be put on behind the paywall.
55:29SPEAKER- Yeah, so-- - The more intricate they get.
55:32SPEAKER- They get the more tokens you use, right?
55:33SPEAKER'Cause the tokens ain't free, it turns out.
55:36SPEAKER- So I wonder, and I wonder then,
55:39SPEAKERyou know, when they gave me a gigabyte of storage for email,
55:43SPEAKERI was like, oh, okay, this is weird, but I'll take it.
55:46SPEAKERI get a lot of mail, it's nice to be able
55:48SPEAKERto save images in there, whatever.
55:49SPEAKER- You stayed at one gigabyte, that's incredible.
55:52SPEAKER- No, I'm-- - Okay. (laughs)
55:54SPEAKER- Do you wanna know?
55:55SPEAKERIt's bad. - No, I don't wanna know.
55:57SPEAKER- Do you wanna know how many unread messages
55:59SPEAKERare in my inbox? - No, no, no, no, no, no.
56:00SPEAKER- I'll share this information if you want.
56:01SPEAKER- No, no, no, no, no.
56:03SPEAKER- Every month I go through and Control + A
56:05SPEAKERand then just mark everything read.
56:06SPEAKER- It's just they're constantly on me to pay more money.
56:08SPEAKERSo that's why I was making that joke.
56:11SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm at 54% of two terabytes used right now.
56:16SPEAKERSo that, but that includes the photo library
56:18SPEAKER'cause Google is the online backup for my photos,
56:21SPEAKERwhich has been the one Google, like I've, like I said,
56:25SPEAKERI've gotten, I'm mostly off of Gmail,
56:27SPEAKERmostly off of Calendar.
56:28SPEAKERI use Google Docs 'cause you can't avoid that
56:30SPEAKERworking in corporate America at this point.
56:33SPEAKER- It's cheaper than Office.
56:35SPEAKER- Well, it's cheaper than Office
56:36SPEAKERand unless you're talking to lawyers,
56:38SPEAKERit's better than Office, I think, for most everybody.
56:40SPEAKERThe lawyers always want Microsoft
56:41SPEAKERbecause you mess up their subheads.
56:43SPEAKER- They do.
56:44SPEAKER- But I don't, Google Photos is the one that I actually,
56:50SPEAKERlike it's the one Google service
56:51SPEAKERthat I still actually really like.
56:53SPEAKERThey do a really good job, better than Apple,
56:55SPEAKERof exposing things that aren't gonna leave me
56:57SPEAKERemotional trauma dealing with lost family members
57:02SPEAKERor pets or whatever.
57:03SPEAKER- Oh, really?
57:04SPEAKERMine keeps, mine loves to show me my cat.
57:07SPEAKERI'm like, it's been six years.
57:10SPEAKER- I had to block, I was like, hey, don't,
57:12SPEAKERthere's a three day period in August
57:14SPEAKERthat I don't ever wanna see pictures of again.
57:16SPEAKERThen my daughter probably did something really awesome
57:19SPEAKERthat time that I'm never gonna remember, but that's fine.
57:22SPEAKERThere's like, it's weird,
57:27SPEAKERbut it's weird having this huge chunk of memory
57:30SPEAKERat the whim of this corporate, this giant corporate entity.
57:33SPEAKERAnd also the other problem is,
57:38SPEAKERI'm starting to see a little bit rot in the photos sometimes
57:41SPEAKERand I don't feel good about that.
57:43SPEAKERThat feels really weird to me that,
57:44SPEAKER'cause like the whole point of putting them online
57:46SPEAKERand not destroying them with my NAS in the garage
57:49SPEAKERis that I expect them to do a better job of that
57:51SPEAKERthan I can do.
57:53SPEAKERAnd so far it's a little up and down.
57:56SPEAKERSome of the old videos don't work anymore.
57:57SPEAKERAnd I'm like, why is that?
57:58SPEAKERThat's weird.
57:59SPEAKERThat's rot, man, I haven't even thought about that.
58:01SPEAKERThat makes total sense.
58:03SPEAKER'Cause of course that would happen with CDs
58:05SPEAKERand with tapes and all that.
58:06SPEAKERSo I've been thinking about that too, by the way.
58:10SPEAKERSorry to cut you off.
58:12SPEAKERI just, I've been thinking a lot about that too,
58:14SPEAKERbecause I realized the other day that,
58:19SPEAKERlike I've been going to concerts for so long.
58:21SPEAKEROkay, so like I'm going to the Warped Tour this summer.
58:23SPEAKERI went to the Warped Tour back in the 2000s,
58:25SPEAKERbut you would have no idea because I took no pictures.
58:28SPEAKERAll I have is my memory and I think about now,
58:32SPEAKERand I feel like it's hard.
58:33SPEAKERIs it harder for me to get things out of my brain
58:38SPEAKERbecause I'm so reliant on the smartphone
58:40SPEAKERto sort of capture it for me
58:42SPEAKERand fill in the blanks when I need it?
58:45SPEAKERLike, did I give my brain this sort of handicap by,
58:49SPEAKERyou know.
58:50SPEAKER- By over-leveraging your tools?
58:51SPEAKER- Sincerely, yeah.
58:52SPEAKERI've been thinking a lot about that lately
58:54SPEAKERand 'cause I mean, I'm 40 now.
58:57SPEAKERSo I think about the six. - Oh God.
58:59SPEAKERNo, that's not possible, Flo.
59:04SPEAKERWow, okay.
59:05SPEAKERFresh-faced intern, Flo.
59:09SPEAKERI just like, look, some skills are okay to atrophy.
59:12SPEAKERLike I don't need to know how to nap Flint
59:14SPEAKERin the modern era, right?
59:16SPEAKERI'm good with not knowing that.
59:18SPEAKERI took a class one time 'cause I was like,
59:20SPEAKERI want to learn how to make Flint tools.
59:21SPEAKERThat seems fun.
59:22SPEAKERAnd I went out and my knuckles were as bloody
59:25SPEAKERas they've ever been.
59:26SPEAKERIt was absolutely miserable.
59:27SPEAKERMy hands hurt for like two weeks afterwards
59:29SPEAKERand I kind of made something with a little bit
59:31SPEAKERof an edge that lasted about 30 seconds
59:33SPEAKERwhen I started trying to use it to cut something.
59:35SPEAKERSo like, then I went and took a milling class
59:39SPEAKERand I learned how to use a mill in a lathe
59:40SPEAKERand that, it turns out, is an actual practical skill
59:43SPEAKERthat I have used off and on, not frequently,
59:45SPEAKERbut I like, if I need to go into someplace,
59:47SPEAKERI can probably start the mill and not hurt someone
59:50SPEAKERif somebody reminds me of the safety stuff before I get it
59:52SPEAKER'cause it all comes back every time I've done that.
59:55SPEAKERI feel like I used to be,
59:58SPEAKERso I went to a ton of concerts in my 20s and 30s
1:00:02SPEAKERand I got a cell phone when I was 32, I think.
1:00:05SPEAKERThe first iPhone came out when I was 32
1:00:06SPEAKERand I was on board immediately.
1:00:08SPEAKERAnd when I was 35, the iPhone 10 came out
1:00:13SPEAKERand the photos actually coming out of the phone
1:00:14SPEAKERstarted getting good.
1:00:16SPEAKERAnd that was when I stopped kind of carrying
1:00:18SPEAKERa point-and-shoot camera, like I had a Canon PowerShot
1:00:20SPEAKERor something that I carried around for years
1:00:22SPEAKERjust in my bag or in my jacket pocket.
1:00:25SPEAKERAnd when the iPhone 4 came out in 2010, I stopped.
1:00:31SPEAKERThose pictures were good enough.
1:00:33SPEAKERAnd from that time forward, my memories are mostly related
1:00:36SPEAKERto the photos I've taken with the smartphone.
1:00:38SPEAKERFrom that time previous, my memories are things
1:00:40SPEAKERthat I remember doing and thinking about.
1:00:42SPEAKERAnd there are a handful of pictures,
1:00:44SPEAKERbut it's definitely like, hey, I took 18,000 pictures
1:00:48SPEAKERthe year my kid was born and I took 300 pictures in 2007.
1:00:54SPEAKERRight?
1:00:55SPEAKERAnd it's both a huge data problem 'cause realistically
1:01:00SPEAKERof those 18,000 pictures, there's probably 300
1:01:02SPEAKERthat are really good.
1:01:03SPEAKERAnd am I ever gonna go through 18,000 pictures
1:01:08SPEAKERand pick out the 300 that are good?
1:01:10SPEAKERProbably not.
1:01:11SPEAKERSo I need something to surface that for me
1:01:14SPEAKERand hopefully avoid the bit rot at the same time.
1:01:17SPEAKERSo we'll see how that goes.
1:01:20SPEAKER- Man. - Anyway.
1:01:21SPEAKER- God, existential, sorry about that.
1:01:23SPEAKER- Yeah, no, I mean, look, mortality is a real motherfucker.
1:01:26SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:01:28SPEAKER- Anything else?
1:01:29SPEAKERAnything else?
1:01:30SPEAKERThey talked about the audio glasses.
1:01:32SPEAKERDid you get to try those?
1:01:33SPEAKER- Yes, I did.
1:01:34SPEAKER- Do they have a camera?
1:01:35SPEAKER- Yes, I was one of the first people to try those out
1:01:41SPEAKERback in December, which I actually felt very,
1:01:46SPEAKERlike I was very excited to be invited to that
1:01:49SPEAKERbecause I've been really wanting Android smart glasses.
1:01:53SPEAKER- Okay.
1:01:54SPEAKER- I want an alternative.
1:01:55SPEAKERI like the Metaray bands for using them
1:01:59SPEAKERfor what I would be using them,
1:02:01SPEAKERwhich is my first person hiking,
1:02:02SPEAKERwhich is like listening to music that way,
1:02:05SPEAKERwhich is maybe asking a question about like
1:02:08SPEAKERwhat I'm looking at while I'm hiking.
1:02:11SPEAKERThat's sort of what I'm interested in the glasses for.
1:02:15SPEAKERI'm not interested in using Meta to do that.
1:02:17SPEAKERI'm more interested in using who I've already given
1:02:19SPEAKERall my personal information to, which is Google.
1:02:22SPEAKER- So you've got a sunk cost there,
1:02:23SPEAKERso you might as well go lean in.
1:02:24SPEAKER- Exactly, so can we just stick with one, you know?
1:02:27SPEAKER- Yeah, one faceless multinational corporation.
1:02:30SPEAKER- Yeah.
1:02:32SPEAKER- Were they good?
1:02:33SPEAKERLike what was the experience?
1:02:34SPEAKERIs it the same as the Meta glasses?
1:02:36SPEAKER- It's similar to the Meta glasses.
1:02:37SPEAKERI would say they were a lot lighter than the Meta glasses.
1:02:41SPEAKER- And to be clear, we're talking about the Meta glasses,
1:02:42SPEAKERnot the ones with the screens,
1:02:43SPEAKERjust the ones with the camera and the speakers.
1:02:45SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm just talking about the regular old Ray-Ban
1:02:47SPEAKERMeta Wayfarers that you can buy right now very easily.
1:02:50SPEAKERThat's the pair that I have.
1:02:52SPEAKERAnd then I am really looking forward to,
1:02:56SPEAKERso I got to wear the Warby Parker version of the glasses,
1:03:02SPEAKERnot into that, because not into that whole aesthetic.
1:03:06SPEAKERThe Gentle Monster version that is coming out this fall,
1:03:12SPEAKERI am on the wait list.
1:03:15SPEAKER- Oh.
1:03:15SPEAKER- They're very feminine.
1:03:18SPEAKERThey have like a little, sort of like.
1:03:24SPEAKER- They're like a little cat eye almost.
1:03:25SPEAKER- Yes, a little bit, more oval, I should say.
1:03:30SPEAKERAnd then they have the cameras in them, of course.
1:03:33SPEAKERBut I like the fact that they just look so chic.
1:03:40SPEAKER- Can you do camera stuff with those
1:03:43SPEAKERthat doesn't rely on, like the Meta glasses,
1:03:47SPEAKERI think one of the things that I was,
1:03:48SPEAKERconceptually for me, they were interesting to like,
1:03:50SPEAKERhey, it would be cool to do a cooking livestream
1:03:52SPEAKERwhere you have the glasses on your head.
1:03:54SPEAKER'Cause like, I follow Kenji Alt Lopez,
1:03:56SPEAKERand he does, he straps a GoPro on his head,
1:03:59SPEAKERand then live streams that from his kitchen,
1:04:02SPEAKERand he's looking down.
1:04:02SPEAKERLike having hands-free access to a camera is super,
1:04:06SPEAKERlike, look, I had a pair of Google glasses 100 years ago,
1:04:11SPEAKERand it was great, 'cause I could take pictures of things,
1:04:13SPEAKERand I could show things, shoot video of things
1:04:16SPEAKERthat traditionally are pretty hard to shoot video of, right?
1:04:18SPEAKER- I remember you were one of the original people
1:04:22SPEAKERto really be gung ho about Google Glass, and I remember--
1:04:26SPEAKER- I pissed away a lot of tested freelance,
1:04:28SPEAKERa lot of tested contribs budget on stupid things,
1:04:30SPEAKERand that was probably the most expensive of them,
1:04:33SPEAKERbut I don't know for sure.
1:04:36SPEAKERSo yeah, can you like do live streams off of those?
1:04:38SPEAKERAre they gonna let you hook those up to Twitch?
1:04:40SPEAKEROr are you gonna be able to,
1:04:41SPEAKERI assume YouTube you'll be able to stream to.
1:04:43SPEAKER- Not yet.
1:04:45SPEAKER- I recall vaguely like three meta connects ago,
1:04:49SPEAKERor maybe it was two, that they said
1:04:51SPEAKERthat they were gonna do something similar on the Ray-Bans.
1:04:56SPEAKERThe thing is it's all contingent on the phone in your pocket
1:04:59SPEAKERto be able to do that sort of thing.
1:05:01SPEAKERYeah, and the batteries right now are not so good,
1:05:04SPEAKERand also the Ray-Ban metas, for example,
1:05:09SPEAKERthey were overheating on my head.
1:05:12SPEAKER- Oh, that seems like a bad experience.
1:05:13SPEAKER- Because it was very hot outside at the shoreline,
1:05:15SPEAKERand so I was using them to take a little B-roll
1:05:17SPEAKERof me walking through, you know,
1:05:20SPEAKERto send to the social team,
1:05:21SPEAKERand then when I clicked the button it goes,
1:05:23SPEAKER"Sorry, device is too hot right now."
1:05:26SPEAKER- It does get hot down the shoreline.
1:05:29SPEAKER- Yeah, but I was really surprised
1:05:31SPEAKERat how hot the sunglasses got,
1:05:33SPEAKER'cause I had taken them off to put atop of my head,
1:05:37SPEAKERand so the sun was directly hitting them.
1:05:39SPEAKERI'm sort of thinking about it like, huh.
1:05:41SPEAKER- That seems like a usability problem
1:05:43SPEAKERthey should have caught
1:05:44SPEAKERin the development process. - Yeah, I,
1:05:45SPEAKERthat's what I was, yeah.
1:05:46SPEAKER- 'Cause you don't wear sunglasses
1:05:48SPEAKERwhen it's 40 degrees out, usually.
1:05:49SPEAKERYou wear 'em when it's hot and sunny,
1:05:50SPEAKERand it's gonna get warm.
1:05:52SPEAKER- Exactly.
1:05:53SPEAKERWell. - Yeah.
1:05:55SPEAKERSo the Google ones are coming,
1:05:57SPEAKERthe Warby ones are out now?
1:05:59SPEAKER- No, they're coming out this fall.
1:06:01SPEAKER- Okay.
1:06:02SPEAKER- Yeah, so they were just basically showing
1:06:03SPEAKERpre-release hardware at Google I/O.
1:06:06SPEAKER- The same functionality as the meta stuff, basically?
1:06:09SPEAKER- Pretty similar, except you can do extra stuff,
1:06:12SPEAKERlike take a picture of something
1:06:13SPEAKERand then have Nano Banana draw something for you on it.
1:06:17SPEAKER- That doesn't sound good, Flo.
1:06:18SPEAKER- And then send it off in a message.
1:06:21SPEAKER- That also sounds, I mean, the message part sounds okay,
1:06:24SPEAKERbut the Nano Banana bit,
1:06:25SPEAKERI don't think I'm ever gonna get behind.
1:06:28SPEAKERThis has been fun, thank you for coming on.
1:06:30SPEAKER(laughing)
1:06:31SPEAKEROn the Nano Banana note, I'm gonna write a--
1:06:36SPEAKER- Isn't it, it's very interesting where we are now
1:06:38SPEAKERversus where we were just 10 years ago, so.
1:06:41SPEAKER- I mean, so this is, you've done this
1:06:45SPEAKERfor six years less than I have,
1:06:48SPEAKERor seven years less than I have at this point, I think.
1:06:50SPEAKER- Yes.
1:06:52SPEAKER- For me, maybe a little bit more than that,
1:06:55SPEAKERbut the point is, it's hard,
1:06:59SPEAKERthere was a period of time
1:07:00SPEAKERwhen I was very enthusiastic about it,
1:07:02SPEAKERbecause it felt like things were getting better.
1:07:06SPEAKERFor a long time, having a cell phone, a smartphone,
1:07:10SPEAKERfelt kind of like a superpower, right?
1:07:11SPEAKER'Cause you could do things that other people couldn't do.
1:07:16SPEAKERAnd I haven't had that feeling
1:07:18SPEAKERfrom technology in a long time.
1:07:19SPEAKERIt's just kind of an impending sense of dread
1:07:21SPEAKERabout a lot of the things that are coming down the line.
1:07:24SPEAKERThe Assistant thing actually sounds really good.
1:07:26SPEAKERLike, that sounds like an actual measurable improvement,
1:07:30SPEAKERbut it also seems a little bit weird,
1:07:32SPEAKERbecause, hey, the problem of the deluge of information
1:07:35SPEAKERand the proliferation of messaging applications
1:07:39SPEAKERand, hey, I'm getting too much spam and all of these,
1:07:43SPEAKERthese are all problems that were created by these companies,
1:07:46SPEAKERand now they're like, hey, we have something else
1:07:48SPEAKERwe can sell you that's gonna fix your problem
1:07:51SPEAKERthat we created for you.
1:07:52SPEAKER- It's almost like there's a system built--
1:07:57SPEAKER- It's like the simulation is overheating
1:07:59SPEAKERand we're on somebody's forehead in the, yeah, anyway.
1:08:02SPEAKER- Exactly, at the shoreline, correct.
1:08:04SPEAKER- Yeah, the space shoreline, yeah, exactly.
1:08:06SPEAKERNext dimension up.
1:08:07SPEAKERFlo, where can people find you?
1:08:08SPEAKERWhere can people find your work?
1:08:10SPEAKER- I mean, you can find me at PCMag.com,
1:08:12SPEAKERbut really, you can find me at FlorenceLyon.com,
1:08:14SPEAKERso that'll have links to all my podcasts
1:08:16SPEAKERand everything that I do,
1:08:18SPEAKERand that's a good place to find me.
1:08:20SPEAKER- I have, I don't listen to your Android podcast
1:08:23SPEAKERas often as I should, but I love your podcast with Andy.
1:08:26SPEAKERAndy's one of my all-time favorites.
1:08:27SPEAKERHe's an absolute, absolute gentleman.
1:08:32SPEAKERHe took me on a tour of Boston 100 years ago
1:08:34SPEAKERand I was there one time and we walked around
1:08:36SPEAKERand had a delightful time
1:08:37SPEAKERand then had a slice of pie
1:08:39SPEAKERand it was one of the all-time--
1:08:43SPEAKER- That's an Andy date.
1:08:44SPEAKERThat's exactly an Andy date.
1:08:46SPEAKER- He was like, "Let's go look at some cool sculpture.
1:08:48SPEAKER"There's some cool statues.
1:08:49SPEAKER"We're gonna check out the library,"
1:08:50SPEAKERand then there's a dope diner.
1:08:54SPEAKERAnd I'm gonna tell you, damn good pie.
1:08:56SPEAKERSo if Andy ever says, "Hey, you wanna go get some pie?"
1:08:58SPEAKERYou should go get some pie. - Oh, I know, I know.
1:09:00SPEAKERAndy's taking me to the opera, thank you very much.
1:09:02SPEAKER- Ooh. - Okay.
1:09:03SPEAKER- Oh, well, he didn't offer that.
1:09:04SPEAKER- New York opera, so.
1:09:06SPEAKER- I wouldn't have guessed you.
1:09:07SPEAKER- Well, I have only been podcasting with him
1:09:09SPEAKERfor nine years, so.
1:09:11SPEAKER- I assumed you put that in the live journal too,
1:09:12SPEAKERso I don't know.
1:09:13SPEAKER- I know, yes.
1:09:16SPEAKERBehind a paywall.
1:09:19SPEAKER- Thanks, Flo.
1:09:20SPEAKERWe'll have to have you on again sometime soon.
1:09:22SPEAKER- Thank you.
1:09:24SPEAKER- Thank you so much for coming by, Flo.
1:09:26SPEAKERIt's a pleasure to chat and catch up
1:09:28SPEAKERand talk about the weird state that Android is in
1:09:31SPEAKERand what Google's doing with AI
1:09:33SPEAKERand the places that AI is weird and good
1:09:36SPEAKERand bad and interesting and scary,
1:09:39SPEAKERso we'll have to have you on again
1:09:41SPEAKERsometime in the not too distant future.
1:09:43SPEAKERThis is the part of the show where I thank everybody
1:09:46SPEAKERfor listening and supporting the show.
1:09:47SPEAKERAs always, "Brad and Will Made a TechPod"
1:09:49SPEAKERis a listener-supported show.
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1:10:37SPEAKERAgain, it's patreon.com/techpod.
1:10:41SPEAKERAnd I'm gonna start with our executive producer-tier patrons,
1:10:44SPEAKERstarting with James Kamik, David Allen,
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1:10:53SPEAKERmakers of the HS3 high-speed 3D printer.
1:10:56SPEAKERI also, since it's the end of the month,
1:10:57SPEAKERwanna throw a special shout-out
1:10:59SPEAKERto our associate producer-tier patrons,
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1:11:25SPEAKERThank you all so, so much.
1:11:26SPEAKERWe appreciate each and every one of you,
1:11:27SPEAKERand thanks everybody for your support.
1:11:29SPEAKERThanks to everybody who supports the show.
1:11:31SPEAKERWe really appreciate each and every one of you,
1:11:33SPEAKERand hope that you're enjoying what we're doing.
1:11:36SPEAKERWe will do a question-and-answer episode when Brad's back.
1:11:39SPEAKERI might do some questions for the Patreon-exclusive episode.
1:11:43SPEAKERSo if you have questions and you're a patron,
1:11:45SPEAKERyou can go to the Question Seeking Answers channel
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1:11:49SPEAKERand we will absolutely get through them when we can.
1:11:53SPEAKERAnd if not, if not on the Patreon-exclusive episode,
1:11:55SPEAKERthen when Brad returns.
1:11:57SPEAKERBut thank you all so, so much,
1:12:00SPEAKERand we'll be back next week.
1:12:01SPEAKERAs always, please consider the environment
1:12:04SPEAKERbefore printing this podcast.
1:12:07SPEAKER(upbeat music)
1:12:30SPEAKER(upbeat music)