324: The Intel Batman

00:00SPEAKEROkay, Brad. Did you see the mushroom story? Okay about the elves?

00:03SPEAKERI'm just gonna pull the curtain back you messaged it to me on discord, but as a spoiler URL

00:08SPEAKERWell saying don't click on this save it for next week. This is cold open material in fairness. I

00:15SPEAKEROriginally sent it without the spoiler tone and then I edited the spoiler tag in immediately. I messed up the spoiler tag

00:22SPEAKERSo you hear I've spent the entire last week blaming discords notifications or maybe maybe the Apple watches notifications at any rate

00:28SPEAKERThe URL came to my watch

00:31SPEAKERUnspoilered. Okay, so I got I got let's say a little bit of a preview of whatever's going on here

00:36SPEAKERBut yeah, look five days

00:38SPEAKEREspecially in the Kermit climate turns out to be plenty of time to forget everything about that interaction. So hit me

00:44SPEAKEROkay, so this is from a BBC article that popped up in one of my feed someplace and I was like

00:49SPEAKEROh, this is cold open material. There's a mysterious mushroom that grows in the Yunnan province of China

00:56SPEAKERThat when you eat it if it has not been cooked enough

01:01SPEAKEREveryone who eats it is is hit with strikingly odd and similar symptoms

01:06SPEAKERWhich is that you see visions of pint-sized people marching under doors crawling up walls clinging to furniture

01:13SPEAKERthe hospital in the region where these mushrooms grow treats hundreds of these cases every year and

01:19SPEAKERThey grow on pine trees and people forage for them and you have to cook them when you go to a hot pot place there

01:25SPEAKERthey set a timer for the mushrooms a

01:28SPEAKERThis mushroom ologist to mycologist

01:31SPEAKERSaid I was there I heard about this. I went to the hot pot place a hot pot mushroom restaurant, which

01:36SPEAKERLike let me go and tell you I would be in for a mushroom hot pot restaurant just mushrooms

01:42SPEAKEROkay

01:43SPEAKERBut but he's like they they they set a timer and they tell you don't eat this until the timer goes off

01:49SPEAKEROr you might see little people wait. Yeah, it's a selling point to not see little people

01:53SPEAKERI think generally speaking

01:56SPEAKERHallucinating small people is a bad idea. I don't know. I mean that was gonna be my first question. Would you try it?

02:01SPEAKEROh hell yeah. No, no, no, I don't I don't mean the cooked version where you're not going to see the hallucinations

02:05SPEAKERI'm asking would you try I would try it. I don't think I want to see little people every but that sound

02:12SPEAKERThat sounds like a pretty benign trip all things considered

02:15SPEAKERI mean look every time I I tried mushrooms like twice in college and it went it was a

02:22SPEAKERIncredible amount of vomiting both time. So I'm that's a bad one. Yeah, I did not react well to the mushroom interesting

02:30SPEAKERSo hallucinogenic mushrooms, maybe not my favorite thing got it

02:33SPEAKERI wonder I wonder though if this is like where the Icelandic little people and all the different cultures

02:41SPEAKERYou think these mushrooms are everywhere people who just been orphan them down and not realizing that

02:45SPEAKERThat it's making him see the little people and then this is where like elves and fairies and everything come from

02:49SPEAKERI mean, can we do some forensic archaeology on Jonathan Swift's whole habits? Oh, yeah, the lilliputians

02:56SPEAKERyeah, his whole his whole eating and

02:59SPEAKEROtherwise existing environments. Can we try to figure out what it was? He was eating and perhaps perhaps there's a tangible explanation for all of this

03:06SPEAKERso the thing that's interesting about it is that the

03:10SPEAKERMycologist who's was is quoted in this article

03:14SPEAKERLiterally is saying hey the fact that everybody has the same exact hallucinate hallucination when they take this when they eat these mushrooms

03:23SPEAKERIt's really interesting, you know for science. Yeah, that seems I mean look you get you seed about to get all serious here

03:29SPEAKERBut you see a weird amount of discussion about psilocybin in medical applications these days

03:34SPEAKERSo the interesting thing is that this guy?

03:38SPEAKERthe the mycology

03:41SPEAKERDoctor who's is quoted here is saying that because everybody sees the same hallucinations

03:48SPEAKERIt's really interesting because most hallucinogenics have wildly different

03:53SPEAKEREffects on same people and I wonder like me this is a me wondering if this is like the brain control fungus that you know

04:00SPEAKERmakes the mice

04:01SPEAKERsuicidal

04:02SPEAKERWith cats like is this the beginning is this a last of us sitch? Where are these cordyceps?

04:07SPEAKERI'd look man. I don't know. I'm not a mycologist. Mmm. Yeah

04:12SPEAKERLook, okay. Well normally talk about things like this. I've also eaten mushrooms a couple times in my life one of them

04:19SPEAKERKind of nothing happened. Yeah, the other time was one of the most amazing nights of my life

04:23SPEAKEROkay, you know you're ready to go you're back in for more about 50/50 here. So, you know, I'd give it a shot

04:29SPEAKERI mean look, let's we need to go to China find a mushroom a market and buy some mushrooms

04:35SPEAKERSounds like patreon stretch goal to me

05:06SPEAKERWelcome to Brad will made a tech pod. I'm will I'm Brad

05:10SPEAKERBrad we are

05:12SPEAKERWe're doing something wild. That's right. It's unprecedented

05:16SPEAKERWe had too many questions last month last week

05:19SPEAKERI couldn't get through them all not quite as wild as eating unverified mushrooms, but to Q&A is back-to-back is pretty close. Yeah, so

05:26SPEAKERWe had a we had a really like for real

05:28SPEAKERWe had a really good crop of questions last month and we wanted to come in

05:33SPEAKERYeah in the month before and we wanted to come in and hit more of them

05:37SPEAKERSo I didn't weren't lost to time and here we are. Yes

05:41SPEAKERWithout further ado if you have a question

05:43SPEAKERYou can send it to techpot at content town or you can post it in the discord in the question seeking answers channel

05:49SPEAKERAnd we will get it at the next next episode

05:53SPEAKERWe will I am getting an insane number of spam phone calls right now four at a time. So this is a new

06:00SPEAKERfrontier

06:01SPEAKERFor half a second. I was like, wait, you're getting four phone calls at one time

06:04SPEAKERIt literally I got a phone call notification and then I got another phone call notification for a different number

06:10SPEAKERAnd then I got a third phone notification for a third number and a fourth one from the fourth number. Mm-hmm

06:15SPEAKERSystems working great. Have you seen real quick the I don't want to spoil too much of the next Lander watch cast next week

06:22SPEAKERWow, have you seen the 74 Francis Ford Coppola film the conversation starring Gene Hackman?

06:29SPEAKERNo, really. That is not a Gene Hackman movie. I've seen you should maybe look that up a sneakers comparison came up. Hmm

06:36SPEAKERBut it's it's about surveillance in the 70s

06:39SPEAKEROkay, and if you want to see some pretty interesting like phone tapping technology and some stuff like that

06:45SPEAKERI might recommend that film. Wow, this is fascinating this

06:50SPEAKERWait was that was enemy of a state a sleeper sequel to this movie

06:54SPEAKERMaybe because it has the same the art on this is the same. Hmm. I don't know this one ends pretty definitively

07:01SPEAKERThis is set in the Bay Area. Yes. This is also set in for San Francisco

07:05SPEAKEROh, man

07:06SPEAKERBut just a lot of really interesting like analog surveillance technology in that movie that you would probably appreciate

07:11SPEAKERSpeaking of phone call a weird phone call situation

07:13SPEAKERWell, cuz I feel like in any of the state doesn't he like he lives in a Faraday cage, right?

07:20SPEAKERGene Hackman does because he's he's he's in that too. Yeah, he's he's absolutely

07:26SPEAKERWait, isn't he?

07:27SPEAKERThat's a Will Smith film. I think oh, wait. No, but Gene Hackman isn't that Gene Hackman's like look like the crotchety old guy

07:33SPEAKEROh, and I wonder oh, wow that sure. Okay. Yes that very much sounds like he could be playing a spiritual

07:40SPEAKERsuccessor to the same character in the conversation

07:43SPEAKERYeah, this is wild. It's like a crotchety old guy who's paranoid about information security

07:48SPEAKERDifferent name and we are call in the conversation and Edward Lyle and me of the state

07:53SPEAKERAnyway, anyway, you want to see some some cool phone hacking tech hell

07:57SPEAKERYeah, and some long long-range microphones and some other fun stuff like that. Okay, I could I could recommend that film

08:03SPEAKERI don't know if we could build a laser microphone that you blow it at the glass window and look over the you know

08:09SPEAKERHuh?

08:10SPEAKERI bet that's probably easy to do these days at the table not to just keep spoiling that podcast which will be up Monday for

08:15SPEAKERpatrons on the next lander patreon, but um, a

08:19SPEAKERan entirely passive

08:21SPEAKERsurveillance device

08:23SPEAKERMm-hmm used by the Soviets and invented by Leon theremin. Oh

08:27SPEAKEROf theremin theremin fame. Yeah, I came up at the end of that episode as well that I read up on a little bit

08:33SPEAKERIt's called um, I believe the Wikipedia page is entitled the thing

08:37SPEAKEROkay, like I guess that's just kind of seen that movie the colloquial name for this thing also known as the great seal bug

08:43SPEAKERBecause they hid it inside a gigantic

08:45SPEAKERUnited States seal plaque that they presented to I think some ambassador. Yes

08:50SPEAKERIt was the u.s. Ambassador to the Soviet Union in the 40s

08:54SPEAKERThey hid a passive listening device in this thing that had no power source

08:59SPEAKERhmm, because they were effectively bouncing radio waves off of it from

09:04SPEAKERremote location

09:06SPEAKERThat is wild and they have like a cantana that they aimed us a radio edit to energize it and they were measuring the kind of

09:12SPEAKERGradulations in the return radio waves that were bouncing off of it and then deriving sound from those changes

09:19SPEAKERWow

09:20SPEAKERThat's like planting a bunch of plants in a big hallway that react to you know

09:25SPEAKERPeople brushing up against them and then you know transmitting. Yeah, there is that's wild

09:30SPEAKERWe're using Wi-Fi to track people's movements for that matter

09:32SPEAKERI mean that you can buy a thing for 50 bucks that you can do in your house

09:35SPEAKERThat's depressing or cool or both. I don't know. It's but I mean, you know little from column a little from column B

09:42SPEAKERYou could probably Home Assistant script some fun stuff around that you you absolutely can like

09:47SPEAKERYou can you can write scripts for Home Assistant that let you

09:51SPEAKERThey can tell when you've fallen asleep on the couch and turn off the light. Oh shit

09:55SPEAKERYeah, oh man, is it it has resolution that lets you tell the truth sitting standing laying all that stuff

10:01SPEAKERI'm gonna be real it depends on how I'm living if I'm behaving well and going to bed at 10 o'clock like I should every night

10:08SPEAKERThen this isn't a problem. But sometimes I get into a rut of falling asleep on the couch

10:12SPEAKERI'm not waking up until it's like clockwork

10:15SPEAKERI wake up about 2 30 or 3 every night that I did this happens

10:18SPEAKERYeah

10:19SPEAKERAnd something that detected that and turned lights off for me say like 11 or 12 would be kind of useful

10:25SPEAKERAnd you need like a little robot that comes out and like lifts your head up and jams a pillow under there and puts a blankie

10:29SPEAKEROn you also that also good to go

10:31SPEAKERI think falling asleep on that couch is maybe not good for some ongoing nerve issues. But anyway, let's read some questions here

10:37SPEAKERYeah, yeah, I look bread. I've reached the point now when I'm sitting in my chair and I think I'm about to fall asleep

10:42SPEAKERI'll just go ahead up and go to bed because I'd rather take a nap

10:45SPEAKERThat's probably bad and not jack up my neck for four days. Probably the thing to do. I don't know

10:49SPEAKERAm I regressing emotionally like I feel am I am I turning into the you know

10:54SPEAKERthe childish thing of just get angry when you're tired and don't want to do what you're told I

10:59SPEAKERMean we have some of that in my house

11:01SPEAKERI'm annoyed that I'm tired and don't want to get up off the couch and go to the bed where it's an easier to sleep

11:06SPEAKERAnyway, all right. Here's an email signed alpha

11:11SPEAKERWas listening to episode 318 and the topic of Will's electric vehicle and range and charging came up

11:17SPEAKERAnd I have a fun story about that as a proud owner of a Chevy Bolt

11:21SPEAKERRange anxiety is real when driving freeways when you get about half of the expected mileage unless you never go above 60 miles per hour

11:29SPEAKERBut on a recent trip to the mountains the drive home blew my mind

11:34SPEAKERDriving up the mountain turned a 90 mile drive into 200 used miles on the bolt

11:40SPEAKERAfter charging it up to about 200 miles of range. We left to drive home from Wrightwood at 6,000 feet elevation to Long Beach, California

11:49SPEAKERWe departed with 204 miles of range and got home with

11:54SPEAKER225 miles remaining we actually netted 20 plus miles over a 90 mile trip due to battery regeneration

12:02SPEAKERWhile the bolt is the lowliest of EVs on the markets even this cheaper option has proven to be a complete game changer for me

12:09SPEAKERObviously a pretty unique situation but still cool as hell

12:12SPEAKERso I was gonna say I'm looking forward to my Google photos right now, but I

12:17SPEAKERhad a day where

12:20SPEAKERWe were in Tahoe and we came back and it wasn't winter time

12:23SPEAKERit was like the roads were clear and it was safe to regen the whole way down pretty hard and

12:28SPEAKERI want to say we got like 80 miles per kilowatt-hour on the on the downhill coming from 8,000 feet to you know

12:37SPEAKER1200 or 1500 or whatever it is in the foothills and

12:41SPEAKERYeah, we the same thing it was it was fabulous highly recommended not charging up all the way if you're at the top of a big

12:47SPEAKERGiant mountain is that is that regenerative braking are you?

12:51SPEAKERDo you have to manually engage the brake for that to happen or is that just taking your foot off the accelerator and letting it?

12:56SPEAKERCoast well it depends on the car, so

12:59SPEAKERIf you're doing like one pedal driving, then there's no taking your foot off the car. Oh, I found the screenshot

13:06SPEAKERIt's 51 11.8 miles per kilowatt-hour going 70 miles an hour, which usually you get like three to four so while they're huh man

13:13SPEAKERThat's crazy. There's and then and then there's one screenshot five minutes later of

13:19SPEAKER49.2 miles per kilowatt-hour that seems like something that you could maybe end up obsessing over a little bit like kind of optimizing

13:25SPEAKERFor the most possible efficiency of your car, which I mean, I guess that's kind of technically possible in a gas car in some ways

13:31SPEAKERas well, but

13:32SPEAKERWell, you don't get the moment-to-moment read on the gas like the gas is doing some ventilation

13:37SPEAKERLike a gas car you can go in by feel right well, and you you do your mileage and most modern gas cars have like

13:45SPEAKERmiles per gallonometer, right

13:49SPEAKERBut but yeah the the direct feed of how it's going on a moment-to-moment basis

13:53SPEAKERMakes me think about things like oh, do I really want the heat on?

13:57SPEAKERIs it warm enough that I want the heater turned on because you know the heater in an electric car is isn't like a passive

14:02SPEAKERIt's not using the warmth of the engine block to warm some water that warms the air in your cabin

14:07SPEAKERIt's turning on a heating element or heat pump that that turns it on and that uses that uses power and reduces your range

14:14SPEAKERI found in the bolt I cared much more because charging that thing was a pain in the butt in the ionic

14:21SPEAKERit's much less of a of a

14:24SPEAKERon road trips, it's much less of an issue because it's always 20 minutes to 80% and

14:31SPEAKERSo I don't really worry about it as much now

14:33SPEAKERbut I will say is I do think about things like in the middle of summer if I'm driving to LA and it's

14:38SPEAKER125 degrees in the Central Valley if it makes more sense to go

14:43SPEAKERDown 101 which is on the coast where it's 65 or 70 degrees all the time

14:48SPEAKERversus driving down 5 where everybody goes 80 miles an hour and

14:53SPEAKERLike often it's faster to go the 30 miles the longer way that you drive slower

14:58SPEAKERBecause you have fewer charge stops, especially with the bolt where the charging time was so long. So anyway, that makes sense. Yeah

15:06SPEAKERDave and Sheffield got one read last week and another one read this week Wow

15:11SPEAKERCongratulations to two four from Dave

15:13SPEAKERThere's some network services and tools that I want to explore and learn partially for career learning

15:18SPEAKERBut also maybe to see if there's a point deploying them in my home lab. I

15:22SPEAKERCan't decide however, whether I should pick up a mini PC of some kind. I'm sure you're aware of the go-tos like the

15:29SPEAKERLenovo ThinkCentre and tiny Dell Optiplex micros or a Raspberry Pi or an old nuc

15:35SPEAKEROr should I just use my homemade Debian NAS to host VMs?

15:39SPEAKERIt was made from an old old PC upgrades. So the Ryzen 5600 X is extremely underutilized in it. I

15:46SPEAKERWill say though in the cores on that thing good for compiling software

15:49SPEAKERwhen you

15:51SPEAKEROccasions that you need to do that. Yeah. Anyway, he goes on what are the pros and cons?

15:57SPEAKERThe VM solution is cheap slash free and I can spin up snapshots and tear them down easily

16:03SPEAKERAgain, that's on the 5600 X kind of the full-size PC that he was talking about the physical machine

16:09SPEAKERMeaning the mini PC is not going to break or be broken by a host

16:13SPEAKERPhysical machine would look cool in my mini rack on my desk. Is that really a good reason?

16:20SPEAKERSo

16:21SPEAKERThe principle of least functionality would suggest a NAS should be just that and a VM host ought to be separate

16:28SPEAKERBut can use a storage from the NAS. What would you do?

16:32SPEAKERSo this is it like this is the eternal question, right? And it's pretty I think we should do an episode where we touch it

16:39SPEAKERBased on like what's going on in our home lab soon. Yeah, I had a request from somebody on the discord last week

16:44SPEAKERI think about stepping through mine. So I've got almost exactly what they even Sheffield is talking about here

16:49SPEAKERI have a just flat Debian PC with a bunch of hard drives in it as my NAS slash server now and somebody had asked

16:55SPEAKERme to maybe

16:57SPEAKERThis is somebody who uses true NAS and was like hey

16:59SPEAKERI'm thinking about getting off of an appliance style OS like true NASA and just going straight Linux

17:03SPEAKERBut and you step through all the components of what makes a storage server go without a front end like that

17:09SPEAKERSo we might roll that into some kind of home lab update. Yeah, it's it's um, so I have I have a

17:17SPEAKERSynology NAS that's just a low power Intel machine. It's a little soft on the on the hardware transcode

17:23SPEAKERSo I don't actually host a lot of stuff on it and that natively although I do host some lightweight stuff like my Ubiquiti

17:30SPEAKERMy Ubiquiti controller and some other stuff lives in Docker containers or Synology plugins

17:36SPEAKERI think that like my argument depends on what this network services

17:41SPEAKERAs to whether you should run it on its own hardware or whether you should run it in like a VM or I think a Docker

17:47SPEAKERContainer is also the the third thing that you haven't really talked about here

17:52SPEAKERI I tend my policy generally speaking is that I start by putting it on one of the machines that's

17:59SPEAKERFloating and available either that has Docker running on it that I can put in a Docker container or on the Synology in the Docker

18:06SPEAKERimplementation on the Synology and then if that's not enough juice for the whatever the application is

18:10SPEAKERThen I'll move it over to the to the dedicated

18:14SPEAKEREither a dedicated Raspberry Pi or to something like my b-link, which is a and 10110

18:20SPEAKERI think or 102 or I can't remember. It's one of those one of those low power Intel

18:25SPEAKERkind of

18:26SPEAKERembedded II slash mobile CPUs and

18:29SPEAKERWith like 16 gigs of RAM. Yeah

18:31SPEAKERI don't know what the recommendation is here because you and I have taken opposite tax on this because like I said mine

18:37SPEAKERMy my store server is a 12 600 K. Mm-hmm with 64 gig of RAM and 10 hard drives in it as I've said ad nauseum

18:45SPEAKERThat's like a million dollars worth of RAM at this point

18:48SPEAKERIt's ECC - well, actually, you know what? I wonder if ECC is like relatively cheaper than the gamer

18:54SPEAKEROff-the-shelf gamer RAM the where the demand is. I'm sure AI cares about ECC. Yeah, they don't seem to care about lying

19:00SPEAKERI certainly don't why would they care about flipped bits then? Yeah

19:05SPEAKERbut

19:06SPEAKERI will say that it is it is the I would say overwhelming opinion of people on our discord that

19:12SPEAKERSeparate NAS and separate like VM host or server is the way to go. I think most people think kind of

19:19SPEAKERCompartmentalizing that stuff is I think that's probably mostly for maintenance if I had to guess it's mostly just like hey

19:25SPEAKERIf your VM host dies, you don't have to worry about your storage also being down. That's yeah

19:30SPEAKERI think they're like potentially there are also security implications there of

19:34SPEAKERYou know, there's less of a barrier if like if a service gets compromised on your server and the storage is also all in that machine

19:42SPEAKERThey probably have a quicker path to getting to the storage

19:45SPEAKERIf it was on a separate machine, so like so I have to practice a lot of

19:50SPEAKERcontainerization and security

19:52SPEAKERBarriers, I guess I would say on my NAS which we'll get into that next next time when we do that home lab thing

19:57SPEAKERYeah for me. There's a lot of like what's the most what are the what are the things?

20:02SPEAKERI want the most uptime on and I I tend to put those either on dedicated hardware

20:07SPEAKERlike home assistants on its own own

20:10SPEAKERThe home assistant yellow. Yeah, the pie holes are on their own raspberry pies, etc

20:14SPEAKERAnd then the other stuff like if the minecraft go server goes down. It's really not that big a deal

20:19SPEAKERYeah, that's the flex server goes down. It's not a huge deal. That is exactly it

20:23SPEAKERI would say look at what you're planning to run and anything that you would be annoyed if it was down for more than like

20:28SPEAKER30 seconds do not put it on. In fact, I would not know maybe it would even put it on that little mini server

20:32SPEAKERI would do what you said and put it on like practically its own dedicated hardware

20:37SPEAKERYeah, I think the mini server has been pretty reliable. Like the one I have is fanless actually

20:41SPEAKERSo there's really nothing to go wrong in it except the SSD dying, right?

20:46SPEAKERBut I do I do the same thing like blocky and home assistant or basically the two here

20:50SPEAKERIt's like home assistants down my lights don't work. Yeah blocky is down internet doesn't work because there's no DNS so stuff like that

20:56SPEAKERI run on Raspberry Pis like that's good to separate that stuff out. But you know, it's like there are advantages to both

21:04SPEAKERYeah, I would definitely look at Docker though

21:05SPEAKERIt's like I will say I was a Docker skeptic coming from BSD jails and having used it for a few years now

21:13SPEAKERLike I'm I'm I don't know if I'm a believer, but it's very convenient. I especially for for this kind of stuff

21:19SPEAKERI also and again, this is for the home lab episode

21:20SPEAKERBut I also I was so used to using jails that jails and BSD are basically like a whole

21:26SPEAKERExtra computer running. It's like a VM except not a VM. It's not virtualized. It's just siloed off from the from the rest of the host. I

21:34SPEAKERcloned to that

21:36SPEAKERmethodology and Linux for I think

21:38SPEAKERlonger than our Linux channel on the server would like

21:42SPEAKERbut I finally they finally talked me into

21:46SPEAKERExcept instead of moving to Docker what if you move to pod man instead? Oh god

21:50SPEAKERWell, I was just saying I I would say if you're learning Docker, you don't know how to do Docker now

21:56SPEAKERdon't start with command-line Docker just install portainer or one of those things that lets you manage it from a web interface and makes

22:03SPEAKERIt much more straightforward when you're learning

22:05SPEAKERWhat if you not only started with command line, but you use the other tool besides Docker that is basically Docker compatible

22:11SPEAKERExcept occasionally you'll run into a weird edge case

22:14SPEAKERYeah, see, I don't like edge cases. So I would say just run Docker and portainer or whatever. There's there's a

22:20SPEAKERthere's a much lower overhead version of portainer that's better for home lives and a camera that's called but

22:26SPEAKERYeah. Anyway, that's what I got

22:28SPEAKERall rights sticking with the

22:31SPEAKERThe Linux II stuff here for seconds. Here is an email from did they sign this email?

22:36SPEAKERI don't think there's a name on this one. Oh, wait, hang on Jay from these way down here. Yes, Jay from the East Coast

22:41SPEAKERThere it is

22:42SPEAKERAlong you know, I don't may not get into all of this too much

22:45SPEAKERBut here's a tip for you Brad mentioned in a recent episode about how much Unix and by extension Linux command-line stuff was still present

22:52SPEAKERin Mac OS

22:54SPEAKERIf you didn't know I thought I'd mentioned PowerShell also aliases many Unix commands

22:59SPEAKERThis is not Windows subsystem for Linux or anything. This is a feature of PowerShell itself

23:04SPEAKERExample in PowerShell if you type man LS it automatically becomes get help get the child item

23:10SPEAKERso

23:11SPEAKERIt translates the man the man page request for the LS command into that's wild

23:18SPEAKERYeah, so how much PowerShell have you done? None very little interest. Well, I mean our shells like super interesting actually

23:24SPEAKERI don't love everything about it. But some of the things that it's good at are really interesting

23:29SPEAKERso so I did do some PowerShell stuff to

23:33SPEAKERTo get builds I PowerShell ends up being a thing

23:36SPEAKERI have to do for build server sometimes when I help somebody set up a build server for a game for

23:40SPEAKERCuz that's all Windows and it's all Windows compilers and all that stuff in PowerShell has deep hooks for that

23:45SPEAKERyeah, but it's it's very much a I know enough to be extremely dangerous and

23:51SPEAKERnot

23:52SPEAKERYou know expertise you can do some pretty wild stuff with it like real quick just to

23:57SPEAKERfact this touches on the question after this I was going to take but

24:01SPEAKERThe the most magical weird interesting thing about PowerShell is you know, and you piping commands and Linux

24:07SPEAKERYou guys have talked about this on the Dooloo Diaries. Yeah, we love typing. Wait is Adam piping now?

24:12SPEAKERNo, Adam's not bad at all. I mean, I don't maybe I haven't asked him lately

24:16SPEAKERIt's piping hat

24:18SPEAKERDon't know piping commands in you in Unix and and posix compliant terminals, I guess right? Yeah

24:24SPEAKERLet's you take the output from the first command put a pipe

24:28SPEAKERCharacter the vertical line in between it and then it sends the output from one command into the input of the next command on that

24:35SPEAKERLine, right?

24:35SPEAKERSo the difference with PowerShell is that with the posix shells the classic Unix terminal that you're talking about

24:41SPEAKERIt's just a raw text screen stream what you're sending to the next program is just plain text. Mm-hmm in PowerShell

24:47SPEAKERIt's structured data

24:49SPEAKERWhat really you can sound like a JPEG? Well, no, no. No, so it's it's internally structured by PowerShell. So it's like

24:56SPEAKERIf you get a directory listing, which is what get child item is

25:00SPEAKERYeah, what do which they're aliasing to LS here?

25:03SPEAKERSo like like that's the dir, you know

25:04SPEAKERdir of the classic command prompt in DOS like get child item is basically the dir of or the LS of

25:12SPEAKERPowerShell but when you're sending a directory listing and piping it to the next thing you can I I like the vocabulary to describe this

25:20SPEAKERit's sending like I said a

25:21SPEAKERStructured like a hierarchical list of like the file names the creation times the path like the parent path

25:27SPEAKERIn a way that the next application could understand it

25:29SPEAKERso then you can use like you can like run methods against the the next like the that data in the next

25:35SPEAKERCommand that you're piping to to select for specific data or manipulate it or I'll transform it do all kinds of crazy stuff

25:41SPEAKERIt's really neat. It's funny. Like I remember years ago when I was doing DBD reps. There was a tool

25:48SPEAKERThat now would be an easy PowerShell tool to make script to make that basically let you edit file names in a directory

25:54SPEAKERLike a like a text file. Mm-hmm. So you just open up a directory and you could rename the files just by moving up and

26:00SPEAKERDown the document and saving at the end and it rewrote all the files to the file name changes

26:06SPEAKERBut yeah, this that's why I didn't do stuff like that. So bulk

26:10SPEAKERBulk rename is one of the big things I use PowerShell for for something like this

26:14SPEAKERYou can do like you can use like regular expression to replace parts of a bulk list of file names in a loop

26:20SPEAKERLike that you can do it's hard to explain unless you kind of see it in action, but it's actually pretty powerful

26:26SPEAKERAnd I think it's wild. It's pretty cool. I didn't know that this was an intentional choice

26:31SPEAKERI always thought it was weird that all of a sudden in PowerShell like LS works in PWD works and stuff like that

26:36SPEAKERI I assume that was part of Microsoft's push to just make Windows a little more friendly to Linux people along with

26:43SPEAKERWSL trying to get those people over makes sense

26:46SPEAKERBut although the last thing I'll say all those commands like get child item and get out help like man

26:51SPEAKERAnd LS and Linux are separate binaries, you know, those are actual compiled programs that live on your on your storage

26:57SPEAKERThose are commandlets and PowerShell. So like get child item. Those are not binding. You're not running actual executables

27:02SPEAKERThose are all just they're just part of the shell. But yes, they all run as functions of the shell

27:07SPEAKERThey call them can handle it's but there's like it's weird Jillian of them built in

27:11SPEAKERAll right, actually going to scroll way down to discord questions here and read this RK Harris

27:18SPEAKER62 question because I know he has been diving deep into Linux. I think he's a pretty recent desktop convert

27:25SPEAKERWho I've seen popping up in the links channel quite a bit recently. What's the best shell and why I

27:31SPEAKERUse fish, but that's just installed by default. Okay. Yes. Yes when I when I briefly tinkered with kashi

27:37SPEAKERThat was my first exposure to fish. I was like, what is this? So the thing about I think like my recommendation is bash

27:45SPEAKERYeah, like when you download a script for something for Linux 99% of the time it's gonna be a bash. Yeah

27:51SPEAKERYeah, that's probably the definitely the safest place to start

27:54SPEAKERThe thing I will say is that even if you're using it one of the distros that ships something other than bash

28:00SPEAKERAt least on kashi I can just type bash and then it dumps me in the exact same folder in the you know

28:06SPEAKERAnd I can run this with the bash script from inside bash

28:08SPEAKERYeah, even if it's yeah, even if you don't use bash you should always have bash installed on the system just for

28:14SPEAKERCompatibility reasons I use Z sh or Z shell. Oh, yeah, which is pretty highly bash compatible

28:21SPEAKERThat's my understanding like it pretty much will run more or less the same scripts

28:24SPEAKERLike they'd go out of their way to try to be compatible with bash, but it has extra functionality to be frank

28:29SPEAKERThe only reason I switch to it is because Mac OS stops shipping bash

28:34SPEAKERlike they default to Z sh

28:36SPEAKERAnd have for some years and for some stupid reason instead of just installing bash on my macbook

28:43SPEAKERYou did the new thing I then installed instead I went and installed Z sh on every other machine

28:48SPEAKERI needed a shell around here and continue to do so

28:51SPEAKERBut anyway, you know in Z sh you can use actual color names when you're coloring your prompt

28:57SPEAKERInstead of having to look up the antsy color codes

29:00SPEAKERWhich are impossible to remember. I

29:03SPEAKERLike the idea that you think I'm adjusting the colors of things in my bed in my in my terminal, dude

29:08SPEAKERif you're not making a cool-looking prompt, what is even the point of using a Unix I

29:13SPEAKERHave chosen spend my time in other other ways

29:17SPEAKERThe thing I like about fish is that when I open fish when I open an alacrity and fish is there it just gives me

29:23SPEAKERLike it's real simple

29:24SPEAKERI have a carrot and then above the line where the where the prompt is it just shows what the current working directory is

29:30SPEAKERSo it's very straightforward. Yes. I I also like

29:34SPEAKERHere what this is called?

29:36SPEAKERThere's a I have a little program that runs a it has like the cache II logo and then system stats

29:42SPEAKERWhen I open a new shell window, which I quite like. Mm-hmm

29:46SPEAKERSo you do like cool stuff in your terminal I do but I you know not enough to

29:52SPEAKERnot enough to

29:54SPEAKERCustomize my dot files for the terminal yet to be honest

29:56SPEAKERI think I've talked about this before to be honest the color all the coloring in my prompt is actually

30:00SPEAKERFunctional it is user name username is colored based on whether it's root or an unprivileged user

30:06SPEAKERAh host name is colored based on whether I'm on the host or a container. Oh, that's nice

30:11SPEAKERYeah, I can see that little visual reminder of where I am

30:15SPEAKERI don't I don't do a lot of containers on this machine, but I do

30:22SPEAKERLike having yeah knowing whether I've SSH to another machine would be nice actually because I sometimes lose myself there that kind of stuff

30:30SPEAKERthe the one place the one thing I do want to do is

30:34SPEAKERSync my type ahead cache across all the computers I use

30:40SPEAKERFigure out the history file. Yeah the history file

30:43SPEAKERThat sounds complex

30:45SPEAKERNo, it turns out it's just a flat file

30:46SPEAKERIt is you just run a script that pulls it from get when you turn on when you log into the computer

30:51SPEAKERIt's it's it's complex

30:53SPEAKERIf you have a machine that never gets signed out like if I leave my laptop on all the time that makes it complicated

30:58SPEAKERsure, but um

31:00SPEAKERyeah, people I googled why do people use the fish shell and

31:07SPEAKERThe main thing is that the defaults are good is what people say have you bet you've been to the fish homepage

31:12SPEAKERNo, is it cool? The tagline at the top is finally a command-line shell for the 90s

31:18SPEAKEROkay, that's amazing. I'm not sure if that's like some some

31:23SPEAKERSelf-aware like goofy marketing or if this has actually been around since the 90s and they just never changed it

31:29SPEAKERI do not think it's been around since the 90s given that version 3 released in 2021 say that but you might be surprised I

31:36SPEAKERmean

31:38SPEAKERYou might be surprised

31:41SPEAKERSome stuff that you think is like I think zsh zsh is from the 90s if I'm not so yeah

31:46SPEAKERZsh has been around forever. Yeah, I'm not I'm not seeing when the very first release of fish happened here

31:52SPEAKERThey don't have dates on their release pages. I really want to know now. Oh, they don't. Yeah, you're right. They don't do long

31:59SPEAKERPeople have 1.2 came out in 2015. So it's probably not actually from the 90s fish beta are to

32:06SPEAKERStarted in 2012. Yeah, there's like there's a bug from 2012 in there get up. Okay, their point is taken

32:12SPEAKERYeah, and also the but I do I do love that the webpage commits to

32:17SPEAKER90s straight 90s style. I mean, it's not because there's no there's no tables or frames

32:22SPEAKERYeah, but this could have been a mid 90s web page late 90s webpage her

32:27SPEAKERReal quick not to turn this whole episode in terminal shell talk, but some power shell shell talk

32:32SPEAKERPowerShell is available for everything. You can get it on Linux and Mac OS as well. Good. Thank you

32:37SPEAKERI've occasionally back when I used to use a PowerShell script to process podcasts. I ran PowerShell on Mac OS just for that

32:44SPEAKERAnd then I rewrote it in Python. I will say

32:47SPEAKERthe

32:50SPEAKERRunning the build server is not on Windows would have been really nice every time

32:53SPEAKERI've set up a build server and if PowerShell gets you there, that would be dope

32:56SPEAKERYeah, I don't know what the you've unreal Linux compiling situation is these days

33:01SPEAKERLast thing I'll say real quick if you want to check out that like structured data piping concept that I mentioned for PowerShell

33:06SPEAKERBut not in PowerShell. There's also a new shell. Have you seen that? No, I haven't touched it in a couple years, but it's in you

33:13SPEAKERSHEL

33:15SPEAKERWhich is primarily for Linux and Unix likes although I think you can get it for Windows Mac as well

33:20SPEAKERIt does the same thing though it like it has but it uses more traditional

33:24SPEAKERUnix style command-line commands, but also structures the data that you're piping

33:29SPEAKERTo other commands so you can select for things

33:32SPEAKERThat's interesting yet like a lot of terms here. Here's a great example

33:35SPEAKERActually, I'll just read this command line from the top of their home page

33:38SPEAKERYou can go to new shell sh if you want to see what I'm talking about

33:40SPEAKERBut you run an LS which is just a directory listing right and you pipe it and then you there's a where keyword

33:47SPEAKERWhich is some kind of like comparison operator, basically

33:50SPEAKERSo you're piping LS to wear a size greater than 10 megabytes

33:54SPEAKERSo because it because it has a size column in the structured data, it's piping about the directory listing

34:00SPEAKERit's able to select for files of or over a certain size as they're doing there and

34:06SPEAKERThen and after that they're piping it to sort by modified

34:08SPEAKERso like basically it knows a bunch of metadata about the files you're working with so you can you can filter and

34:15SPEAKERModify by different parameters instead of just trying to parse a giant block of text every time you pipe and it has plugins

34:21SPEAKERSo presumably you can add plugins for data types. It doesn't know out of the box. That's cool

34:25SPEAKERYeah, it's some cool stuff going on with shells these days. Also, I think it's 10

34:32SPEAKERMegabits on the example that they have there Brad maybe I don't know you can see it in the in the screenshot

34:38SPEAKERWell, yeah, it's a capital. It's capital B. And actually, sorry, it's not megabytes. It's maybe bytes maybe bytes

34:44SPEAKERYeah, but I think in the line it says lowercase m lowercase B, which is millibits. I don't know

34:50SPEAKERThat's they might need to work on their syntax. Yeah, I got I got issues with new shell. They're off my leather on my list again

34:56SPEAKERAnyway, all right, maybe enough shell talk for now

34:59SPEAKERActually, sorry, I meant to read this earlier since we're talking about racking

35:03SPEAKERmany pcs and stuff said right soon with the growing popularity of 10 inch racks has Brad considered buying building or

35:11SPEAKERPrinting one to scratch that power efficient home-labbing itch when they say a 10 inch rack

35:15SPEAKERDo they mean 10 inch wide or 10 inch tall? I think wide but I could be wrong

35:19SPEAKERSo it's like a it's like a rack for little guys. It's like a little rack to go on your desk

35:24SPEAKERThe short answer is no

35:26SPEAKERThe longer answer is that it's not so much the rack. I actually desire the rack is more symbolic

35:33SPEAKERof a basement

35:34SPEAKERIt's it's less it's less having the rack and more having space where a rack could go. I don't

35:41SPEAKERYeah, because to be honest with you it is I mean, I would love to have a rack don't get me wrong

35:46SPEAKERBut it needs to be 42 you for one thing. I mean not really but that would be robust. Yeah, but

35:52SPEAKERThe real goal is to get this fucking server and all this other shit out of this office where I never have to hear it

35:57SPEAKERagain

35:58SPEAKERWell, okay a full-size machine with ten hard drives five feet away is kind of actually pretty loud. Yeah

36:03SPEAKERI just I wouldn't do that and it and it there's so much cable mess behind this desk and like there's just so much extra

36:10SPEAKERrouting of cables and

36:12SPEAKEROther considerations the UPS is overloaded because there's too many machines in one room like it's just on and on. Yes

36:19SPEAKERI want a rack a 10-inch rack would not actually solve the problem

36:22SPEAKERI just want all this crap out of here and in a room where I never have to see or hear it

36:26SPEAKERThe thing the thing the other thing is I don't know that I would put it by computer stuff in the basement

36:32SPEAKERBut maybe not actually I'm gonna be real based on the stuff that's gone on in my parents basement over the last 18 months

36:37SPEAKERI I literally said to my mom on a phone last weekend. Like I did everything you guys have dealt with

36:44SPEAKERMight be telling me I should never own a house with a basement actually. Yeah, I mean look

36:50SPEAKERBasements basements are fraught ask our friend Vinny about his basement. It's like they're up and down. Sometimes basements are great

36:56SPEAKERSometimes not so much

36:57SPEAKERMy parents basement in the house that I grew up in was fine for the 30 years that we lived there same

37:01SPEAKERThe moment somebody bought it they it rained real bad and flooded almost immediately. So like

37:07SPEAKERAlso, there was a sump in there the entire time and I assume it was doing some work that maybe we weren't aware of some

37:13SPEAKERYeah, yeah

37:14SPEAKERAnyway, I think tennis racks are neat if you've got stuff to go in them

37:17SPEAKERI can see why like they certainly they certainly would be nice to sit on the corner of the desk if you have like a

37:22SPEAKERNUC and a router and you know little

37:25SPEAKERDo hickeys of that nature? That's a nice way to organize them

37:29SPEAKERBut I'd rather just put in a big pile in my garage shelf and not thinking not have to look at it. Yeah, well

37:35SPEAKERgarage also works except there seemed to be some thought on the discord that oh

37:39SPEAKERYeah, your Raspberry Pi threes demise may have been hastened by its exposure to the elements in blue raj

37:45SPEAKERI got my $40 worth out of that machine over the last ten years. Yeah

37:49SPEAKERI mean the answer is a climate-controlled garage. Yep. Yeah. Yes, we're a shed perhaps

37:56SPEAKERWell, I guess you got a climate control the shed - that's yeah, you say that but like I

38:02SPEAKERActually looked at it and was looking at what it would cost for me to build a backyard shed

38:07SPEAKERLike make poor slab myself and and build like a 15 by 10 foot or 15 by 15 foot as a square

38:14SPEAKERShed, like I can't legally put power on it

38:18SPEAKERThat's hooked up to the mains without getting it without talking to the county and doing a whole bunch of stuff

38:22SPEAKERMm-hmm, but I can legally put a bunch of panels and a battery on there

38:27SPEAKERand and

38:29SPEAKERit all lives within the realm of

38:32SPEAKERpossibility so maybe that's my maybe that's a 2027 project 2026 project is

38:38SPEAKERBrad and will made a tech shed. Uh-huh

38:43SPEAKERMy anyway, I might need a little more land for that unfortunately

38:46SPEAKERWell, I mean I'm saying is you can come down help me build mine and then have limited access to it is true

38:51SPEAKERYeah, actually by by limited access

38:53SPEAKERDo you mean can I just put my my long fantasized about friend cloud backup solution in there?

38:59SPEAKERYeah, you're off off set back up. I just give you the Raspberry Pi with four hard drives hooked up to it back up

39:05SPEAKERMm-hmm. Just keep I think eight miles is enough of geographical separation

39:09SPEAKERLook, if both of us get wiped out, you're not gonna care if your data is gone. Yep, frankly. Yes. Yeah

39:16SPEAKERAll right, and the latency would be real good

39:19SPEAKERIt'd be fine. Do I back up? I'm gonna I'm gonna throttle your network connection though. Just FYI. That's fine

39:25SPEAKERwell, you know, I mean realistically I

39:28SPEAKERguess you would only really ever need to

39:31SPEAKERDownstream your downstream is all that would ever matter because you'd only be backing up to the other person and presumably never actually pulling data

39:36SPEAKERBack off of it. Yeah, and if you need to pull data back off of it

39:39SPEAKERI'll bring you the hard drives or you can come get the hard drives away. I can just come get them

39:42SPEAKERyeah, that's that's like that's like a good distance actually because then you know, like the

39:47SPEAKERYou don't have to email somebody that hard drives for an off-site backup because that bad is a point of failure in itself

39:52SPEAKERIf you have to send yeah only remaining copy of the data in the mail across the country that could easily disappear

39:58SPEAKERWell, yeah, I like this idea a lot. I think is a good idea. I should build a shed

40:03SPEAKERI get the shed first. Let me talk to my wife. She's gonna be thrilled. I have the office back. Mm-hmm

40:08SPEAKERLet's see

40:11SPEAKERHere's a question from John Bob, but I'm kind of interested in what are the downsides to keeping my iPhone on battery?

40:17SPEAKERSaver mode all the time

40:18SPEAKERI made a shortcut

40:19SPEAKERAutomation to turn it on when the phone stops charging and now my phone seems to use less than half as much battery as normal

40:25SPEAKERThe only thing I've noticed is that photos wait to sync to iCloud until the phone is plugged in to charge

40:31SPEAKERYeah, I don't think there's a downside really. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it does pause a lot of other background tasks like thigh cloud

40:38SPEAKERSyncing I don't know if it actually goes out of its way to tell you what those are

40:42SPEAKERIt turns off the always on screen is the big one. Oh, do you use that? I'd so I think I've mentioned

40:47SPEAKERI got an iPhone 17, right? Oh, I turn I turned off because it's an OLED screen and those are still prone to burn in

40:54SPEAKERI turned off the always on screen for that reason

40:57SPEAKERIf my iPhone burns in I'm gonna make him replace it. So well, I also I I've got time

41:03SPEAKERWe should might do an episode

41:05SPEAKERWe might do an Apple update episode since I've got an not a notch but in a dynamic island in my life now

41:11SPEAKERIt's nice, isn't it? And the air pods are also pretty life-changing. We might yeah hands-on

41:17SPEAKERHere's my first new phone in a while. So soon, but but yes

41:23SPEAKERI'm I'm looking at the list of things that they turn off when you do they do they actually spell it out?

41:28SPEAKERThey have a list on there on there. It's en - us 101 604 on their support site. Yeah, I'm looking at it and

41:38SPEAKER5g

41:40SPEAKERTurns off on most devices that aren't the iPhone 12 and 13

41:45SPEAKERWhich I wonder if this is just out of date that my guess is. Yeah, this was last updated. No, December 3

41:51SPEAKERAuto-lock defaults to 30 seconds display brightness is reduced which will suck if you're outside

41:55SPEAKERThe big one for me is that if you have a greater than 60 Hertz phone or iPad it turns ever frustrate 260 Hertz

42:02SPEAKERYes, I was gonna say even my even my super old I my iPad Pro from 2017 which has like 45 minutes of battery life now

42:10SPEAKERMm-hmm that thing hits low battery mode all the time. And yes, the screen refresh is noticeably worse and that's a kind of a deal-breaker

42:17SPEAKERYeah, I just the point of getting the promotion screen if it's not on

42:20SPEAKERI don't mind only downloading stuff at night if I could if I could have a feature that

42:24SPEAKERLets me only sync stuff to the cloud when it's plugged in I would

42:28SPEAKERTurn that on like honestly the real bummer about this feature is that they don't expose these options in a more granular way

42:33SPEAKERSo you can turn some on and not others

42:36SPEAKERthe other thing is the background app refresh for the apps that don't use the notification based refresh, but

42:41SPEAKERLike have a timer that turns let's let tells the OS to turn them back on and off. Yeah, that's that's also won't work

42:47SPEAKERso things like I want to say the nest app used to do that where if you

42:54SPEAKERLeft the service in the area around your house. It would set your thermostat to away and stuff like that. But um, but yeah, I

43:01SPEAKERThink if you don't mind the refresh rate thing, I don't there's no downside to turning it on it's gonna make your battery last

43:07SPEAKERa lot longer if you're charged cycles, I

43:09SPEAKERAbsolutely turn it on like if I'm on a trip or something. I don't want to bring in my watch charger

43:12SPEAKERI absolutely turn my watch into low power mode the moment I

43:16SPEAKERTake it off the charger in the morning. I'm leaving

43:18SPEAKERYes

43:18SPEAKERI have I have used this on my phone a few times when I knew I was gonna be out all day

43:22SPEAKERI want to make sure I had a lot of charge

43:25SPEAKERWell, you know not a lot of downsides. I guess I I have to say like I have my iPhone usually is set to cap at the

43:33SPEAKERCat stop stop charging at 80%

43:36SPEAKEROh things I was gonna ask was I've been debating should I just put it to 80 like is the 80% a hard limit?

43:42SPEAKEROr like it's 85. Okay, 90. Okay, like is it just not charging to full that is the key

43:47SPEAKERI mean, I think the more you charge it the full the worse it is my understanding of how the battery chemistry works

43:52SPEAKEROkay, I I don't

43:54SPEAKEREven on days when I leave the house

43:56SPEAKERI'm usually plugging in in the car while I'm on the way to and from someplace because I use carplay

44:00SPEAKERso it's it's really only an issue when I'm doing something that involves me being away from

44:06SPEAKERCharger or my desk at home for extended periods of time. Yeah

44:10SPEAKERI've been very impressed with the battery life on the 17 so far like I kind of only charge it every other day right now

44:15SPEAKERIt's really battery life on the phone is really not a problem anymore. It's gotten real good

44:21SPEAKEROkay, this is a fan of fascinating question. This is an excellent question for magic Joe F

44:26SPEAKERMm-hmm. What will be the first hundred year old piece of code still used in production?

44:31SPEAKERSamba, I'm not sure. I'll not sure I'll quite make it to see maybe if I'm part robot

44:36SPEAKERMaybe NTP actually in CP. Yeah, or like I did my first thought was like some aspect of the TCP IP stack

44:44SPEAKERI bet that I bet that's that's relatively new though. That's like an 80s thing

44:50SPEAKERYeah, it was designed in the or maybe even the late 70s that it was designed

44:53SPEAKERBut I mean there are different implementations of it, of course, you know, like different OSes. Yeah

44:58SPEAKERAnd TP was written in 81, okay

45:01SPEAKERBut of course, I mean that's this is you know, that's the same thing every every protocol was defined at a point in time

45:06SPEAKERBut then they are implemented in different actual

45:08SPEAKERcode paths

45:10SPEAKERdifferent

45:12SPEAKERlike it's

45:13SPEAKERHarder to say like whose specific implementation of one of these technologies is still gonna be around and kicking

45:20SPEAKERI don't know. Um, that's a fascinating question. I'm not really super qualified to answer it. I

45:25SPEAKERMean, what about what about like cobalt and Fortran though? Like those are maybe actually

45:30SPEAKERthere's got to be

45:32SPEAKERAssuming there's still a planet in 50 years. I

45:36SPEAKERDon't think the cobalt and Fortran stuff. There's got to be some some government server around somewhere running some old cobalt

45:45SPEAKERYeah, I mean look

45:47SPEAKERWell, I don't think the Voyager probes are gonna make it that long sadly

45:51SPEAKERThey're running on 50 year old code at this point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so we're halfway there

45:57SPEAKERI mean, I don't know that anybody runs cobalt anymore. I feel like you still see

46:04SPEAKERLike calls for engineers that know those languages here and there occasionally like there's still like government payment systems and start banking stuff

46:12SPEAKERThat relies on that here and there like oh

46:15SPEAKERYou know another another contender is the saber system that's used for booking airline tickets. That's been

46:24SPEAKERThe travel reservation system it was originally built for Pan Am by IBM in the 60s hmm

46:30SPEAKERor American Airlines rather

46:33SPEAKERand

46:35SPEAKERIt's it's the thing that it's the terminal the travel agents log into when they book plane tickets still

46:42SPEAKERSo like I don't know that I'm sure that they've ship of Theseus that thing enough at this point

46:48SPEAKERBut it also still feels really the other thing is banking banking system has ancient code in it, too

46:54SPEAKERThat's that's what I was getting out. Yeah, I don't know. That's a tough one, but that's I would love to hear

47:00SPEAKERIdeas in the discord from people who are more

47:03SPEAKERYou know professionally engaged with this subject on this topic. This is almost a question for like somebody at the Computer History Museum

47:10SPEAKERYes, it absolutely is yeah

47:13SPEAKERYou know how they booked airplane tickets before they had the computer system right travel agents called the airline

47:20SPEAKERand the airline had

47:22SPEAKERLike a card catalog style series of drawers

47:26SPEAKERFor each each drawer represented one flight and it had sections so you could buy a seat

47:32SPEAKERLike each section was a different day in the drawer

47:35SPEAKERAnd you'd literally put a fucking 3x5 card in the drawer when somebody bought a seat

47:41SPEAKERTo know that that seat was no longer available. That sounds totally infallible

47:46SPEAKERYeah, that is totally wild though. There's one other thing

47:49SPEAKERI want to mention really quick since you mentioned like Voyager Voyager is the one that has left the solar system, right?

47:56SPEAKERYes risk, you know or you know has its furthest past the heliopause

48:01SPEAKERI don't know if it's like fully outside the science influence or whatever. But yeah, it's in the interstellar medium

48:06SPEAKERIt's you know, they they keep they're playing like the the how many instruments can we still run on 3/10 of a watt or whatever?

48:13SPEAKERThey're the radio isotope or reactor on that thing is still giving it's it's a it's an amazing piece of technology

48:19SPEAKERAnd it is far there is a documentary about that exact subject that I really want to highly recommend called. It's quieter in the twilight

48:26SPEAKEROkay, which is for some reason a name. I just cannot remember to save my life

48:29SPEAKERI watched this documentary like three years ago. We should maybe think about watching it for this show

48:33SPEAKERIt's actually appears to be on free on

48:37SPEAKERYouTube movies and TV free with ads I just pulled up

48:40SPEAKERI'll link it in the show notes actually, but it is entirely about it's about the Voyager mission

48:46SPEAKERBut it's actually really about the people who have spent literally their entire careers working on the Voyager mission

48:51SPEAKERBecause it is such a long I might have brought this up before because it is such a long mission

48:55SPEAKERYeah, it necessitates people that were working on it at the beginning of their careers unless they've moved on to other roles are still

49:02SPEAKERWorking on it at the end of their career like they spent their entire professional lives on one mission

49:06SPEAKERIt's it's wild and it is

49:08SPEAKERIt's about half and half engine like engineering stuff because they get into a lot of all a ton of detail about how they are

49:14SPEAKERTo this day still shunting and balancing power from other systems just to keep the core functionality going

49:19SPEAKERYeah, I can talk to it for a few minutes a day or whatever

49:22SPEAKERBut the other the other side of it is this like incredibly poignant

49:27SPEAKERLike human look at the the people themselves and like

49:31SPEAKERWhat what is very clearly like real loss that they are experiencing as this thing moves toward?

49:38SPEAKERNo longer

49:39SPEAKERYeah, it's like very clearly like in touching these people very deeply that this thing is going to stop responding at some point

49:46SPEAKERSo like it's a it's a really really well done thing

49:50SPEAKERThere was a lovely article around the time that I want to say

49:53SPEAKERI want to say Voyager to reach the heliopause because I think it was the first first one to cross that kind of threshold

50:00SPEAKERabout somebody who started as an intern on the Voyager projects in the 70s and is like

50:07SPEAKERholding off retirement to

50:09SPEAKERyou know to bring it home and

50:12SPEAKERthat's wild that person might be in this documentary for all I know because because you get the sense that some of them are still

50:17SPEAKERhanging around just because they're so

50:20SPEAKERPersonally invested in it somebody who's mostly worked on things that take between you know

50:26SPEAKERThree to four weeks and a couple of days to make yeah, the idea of working on something for 50 years is incredible

50:33SPEAKERlike I can't even wrap my head or I've said this many times around game development like even just spending like one to five or

50:38SPEAKERsix years on a single product is like

50:42SPEAKERIncomprehensible to me. I was talking to somebody the other day who's getting ready to start pre-production on a new project

50:47SPEAKERAnd I was they were like, what do you think? Is this long enough for pre-production? It's like look man

50:51SPEAKERI'm the wrong person to ask on this the vast majority of my career

50:55SPEAKEREverything. Yeah, I would work on 55 things in the space of a typical 12-month pre-production for a big triple-a game

51:02SPEAKERYes, online media will kind of break your brain in terms of like production cycles. Yes. It is just a constant churn

51:10SPEAKERLet's see a couple more here

51:13SPEAKERprank

51:14SPEAKERMight be a first-time questioner. That's a pretty good name. Yeah, I don't remember is that username for

51:20SPEAKERBrad mentioned owning a Google TV on the podcast. Is that an actual television or a box like an Apple TV?

51:27SPEAKERGoogling it on the internet. It sounds like maybe Google released physical TVs and a box and an OS all called Google TV

51:33SPEAKERI'm curious what made it interesting compared to the other options back when Brad bought it and is it still supported?

51:39SPEAKERSo in my case Google TV is just the interface on mice on my smart TV

51:43SPEAKERYeah, like I have a high sense television and it just happens to have Google TV built into it

51:49SPEAKERBut Google TV in this case is just a platform

51:52SPEAKERLike other TVs will have Roku for example, right? Yeah, or

51:57SPEAKERLG's LG's oh has their own there is the palm OS they turned into a

52:01SPEAKERWeb OS actually web OS is what it's called. Yeah. Thank you. Of course in their case. That one's proprietary

52:06SPEAKERThey don't farm that one out to other TVs just theirs

52:08SPEAKERBut there are their TVs on the market that have Amazon fire TV on them instead don't buy those also don't buy Roku's frankly

52:16SPEAKERThey're yeah, they're real

52:18SPEAKERspy, I

52:20SPEAKERYes, okay. My my my girlfriend got a Roku for free from some promotion and it was fine for that

52:26SPEAKERBut yeah, if I was I was paying the money with all the ads on there and the data collection and stuff

52:31SPEAKERI would probably get something else nothing. No single device has lit up my pie hole like who did oh, yeah

52:38SPEAKERBut but but yeah, so I looked into it a little bit. I believe this used to be called Android TV

52:43SPEAKERYes, they've had multiple way. It goes at this. Yes Android TV launched in like 2013 or 2014

52:49SPEAKERWe did some coverage of what they had an early version

52:51SPEAKERThat they shipped with Sony when we were still in the whiskey media basement in like 2011 or 2012. Okay

52:57SPEAKERIt had maybe it was right around the same time

53:00SPEAKERThe Apple TV came out with the first simplified remote like the hey

53:04SPEAKERwe have four buttons a D like a D five-way d-pad and a couple of other buttons and a volume control and

53:09SPEAKERthen Sony had a thing that had like a hundred and fifty buttons a full keyboard and

53:14SPEAKERTwo kind of circular five-way d-pads on it for some reason

53:19SPEAKERThat didn't last very long

53:21SPEAKERUnsurprisingly I could see that the updated Google TV

53:25SPEAKERSo Android TV then shipped a newer version on devices like the shield

53:29SPEAKERThey'd be a shield and is this also the same interface that's on a Chromecast

53:34SPEAKERSo Chromecast is different most Chromecast in the early days didn't have an interface

53:38SPEAKERThey were just a place that you could cast stuff to so it was like I think you plugged into an HDMI port

53:42SPEAKERAnd then you could send something to that and when you disconnected it just turned the TV back off. Oh interesting the new more modern

53:49SPEAKERGoogle

53:51SPEAKERChromecast have like remotes and interfaces and stuff though

53:55SPEAKERBecause it turns out being able to run apps on the device and not have it connected to your phone is what people want

54:01SPEAKERYep, I think the Google TV TVs are pretty good. I don't think Google ever actually sold a TV for what it's worth

54:07SPEAKERI don't think so. Yeah. Yeah, I will say for my part

54:11SPEAKERThe OS running on the TV was the last consideration. I had when I bought the TV

54:15SPEAKERI bought the TV based on its hardware specs and price

54:18SPEAKERIt just happened to have Google TV on it, which has been okay. I don't hate it hate it and it's not my favorite

54:24SPEAKERWe don't need to get into the ins and outs of it necessarily, but like it's been adequate

54:27SPEAKERBut I am still pretty happy to move to an Apple TV in the near future from the exposure

54:32SPEAKERI've had to them like Airbnbs and stuff the

54:35SPEAKERRoku TV is my least favorite the Google TV is fine

54:40SPEAKERThe LG web OS thing is quite nice, but I'd rather have an Apple TV than any of those. Yeah

54:44SPEAKERYes, that's that's where I'm at

54:46SPEAKEREvery time I go back to my parents house and they have an Apple TV I am like, what am I doing to myself?

54:52SPEAKERWell, frankly, I'll tell you when we go

54:56SPEAKERyou know my daughter's homeschooled so we can sometimes go on a little bit of a longer trip and

55:00SPEAKERWe'll stay someplace for like a month or 28 days or something. And I often just grab the Apple TV from the from the

55:08SPEAKEREntertainment center and take it with us when we go someplace

55:11SPEAKERWell, let me look it into the TV and then our stuff just comes with us. It's quite nice even even lay UX aside

55:17SPEAKERI think is small enough that it's worth the extra clutter

55:20SPEAKERjust to not have to like sign into apps on a different device like to just plug a thing in and go I

55:25SPEAKERThink it's also well, it's all there's also a pretty good cottage industry in

55:30SPEAKERBoth cast and 3d printed things that will screw into the visa mounts on your TV

55:35SPEAKERThat will hold the Apple TV just on the back of the TV. So you don't look at it

55:38SPEAKERYep, man, I might think about getting one of those actually. Yeah, I see I guess radio signals go through

55:46SPEAKERTVs just fine, right glass and plastic these days. I see. Yeah fair. I guess there's actually not a ton of metal in there

55:52SPEAKERI see people putting their consoles standing up behind their TVs a lot

55:55SPEAKERThat's where these days that's where my PlayStation is when it's in the living room just I always feel like there's too much metal in

56:01SPEAKERThe TV for that to be reliable for the controller signal, but I guess it's fun. It's fine. Yeah bluetooth is pretty robust

56:06SPEAKERYeah fair. All right, let's do another one more quick. We're a pair of questions

56:12SPEAKEROkay, and then get out of here fishy J

56:15SPEAKERDo we know when we can expect the Panther Lake replacement for the in 150 processor?

56:21SPEAKERSadly gonna be Panther Lake for the end. So so I didn't either I thought so Wildcat Lake is the code name

56:27SPEAKERWe're talking about here. Yeah, and I agree. I thought it was gonna be a Nova Lake

56:32SPEAKERKind of derivative, but is it really it is Panther Lake. I was surprised as well

56:37SPEAKERSo I was really hoping for more information on that thing out of CES

56:41SPEAKERand

56:42SPEAKERWhat we got out of CES was one Intel slide deck that got up to uploaded to the Intel like kind of media center

56:49SPEAKERthat had like a slide at the end of it that just happens to mention Wildcat Lake in a kind of table of

56:55SPEAKERdifferent Wildcat and Panther Lake

56:57SPEAKERskews

56:59SPEAKERSo yeah, unfortunately not a lot of info didn't there's like no information about when it's coming out. Unfortunately, I will say

57:05SPEAKERThe specs they put out in this slide are pretty much almost exactly what has been rumored for the last six months or whatever

57:13SPEAKERit is

57:15SPEAKERcompared to the

57:17SPEAKERCompared to the M 100 and 150 which I think are basically for e cores

57:22SPEAKERFor it's four cores. I think the first one the first gen one is before they did peony course

57:27SPEAKERI recall but so this so Wildcat Lake is going to be two performance cores and two are sorry two performance cores two pea cores

57:34SPEAKERAnd four LP cores. Yeah, the LP ones are the ones that the cores live on the on the iota is bio controller

57:42SPEAKERyeah, yeah, because

57:45SPEAKERIntel typically puts all their cores on a separate compute tile so they can all talk to each other

57:50SPEAKERBut yes now they're doing these low power e cores that are on a separate tile from the big ones

57:55SPEAKERSo on this one, it looks like it's run on running on the compute the compute and Jeep. So on

58:02SPEAKERPanther Lake the compute tile is one thing that has the p cores in the e cores

58:06SPEAKERThere's an i/o tile that has like the NPU and the and the LP cores and all the i/o stuff the PCI Express lanes

58:14SPEAKERThe memory controller all that stuff and then there's a third GPU tile

58:18SPEAKERThat lives outside of both of those other things on this

58:21SPEAKERIt looks like the infrastructure is a compute slash GPU tile

58:25SPEAKEROh, it has both the p cores and the LPE cores as well as the NPU and

58:31SPEAKERto xe3

58:34SPEAKERYou know the the not non celestial

58:38SPEAKERWhat's it called starts with the B battle mage cores?

58:42SPEAKERAll on one whole 18 a tile and then resting and then there's a platform controller tile

58:48SPEAKERWith the PCI Express lanes not many

58:52SPEAKERProbably presumably for nvmes. It's a six six PCI Gen 4 lanes

58:57SPEAKERSome Thunderbolt ports some USB 3.2 and 2 and then Wi-Fi and Bluetooth and those are all living on the platform tile

59:04SPEAKERWhich is they say built on an external process. So the good like it's 18 a it's not the same compute tile

59:12SPEAKERTies and i/o ties as the as the panther like the big panda like I think that's fine

59:17SPEAKERIf it's still if it's still on the new process I am I am

59:21SPEAKERTentatively very bullish about Wildcat Lake for many pcs and little servers. I mean, I am kind of I've been talking about this for like a

59:29SPEAKERYear, I'm dying to get my hands on one of these as a router

59:32SPEAKERYeah, slash kind of little home networking server

59:35SPEAKERI mean look if they if it lives up to the to the kind of history the

59:41SPEAKERN100 which is the Alder Lake version of this

59:43SPEAKERwas

59:45SPEAKERFor Gracemont ecores. You were right. It was ecores. Yeah

59:49SPEAKERand

59:50SPEAKER16 up to 16 gigs of RAM

59:52SPEAKERYeah

59:52SPEAKERLike it's it's a really nice for a little home home server router or something like that and always on machine and to put it in

59:58SPEAKERA little bit more desktop context those cores the Alder Lake ecores on that in 100 both talking to people at Intel and looking at

1:00:05SPEAKERBenchmarks and stuff. Those are like in the ballpark of the 6700 K

1:00:09SPEAKER6500 K. Yeah, which is like a granted is now a ten-year-old CPU, but like it's still

1:00:15SPEAKERThat's a lot of CPU heft for the tiny size of an n100

1:00:19SPEAKERIt's a ton of lift for five watts right and so the GPU kind of sucks in that one specifically

1:00:25SPEAKERSo but so now with Wildcat Lake we're talking about I don't know how many generations newer ecores

1:00:29SPEAKERBut like the into whoever's doing the ecores at Intel is on some shit like an on one

1:00:35SPEAKERBecause like they have been putting up like serious IPC gains generation over generation

1:00:41SPEAKERWell, so the LP ones will probably be a little you should temper your your expectations

1:00:47SPEAKERMaybe so maybe so that's yeah

1:00:49SPEAKERI thought they were just more or less equivalent to ecores

1:00:52SPEAKERBut maybe not depends on how they're how it depends on how they're like how they're devote giving power to them

1:00:57SPEAKERYeah, honestly is my understanding. That's fair, right? Yeah, there's still

1:01:01SPEAKERsome you know

1:01:03SPEAKERnumbers remain to be seen on how exactly how this is going to stack up but

1:01:08SPEAKERTentatively seems very promising for something like a home router for home lab type stuff

1:01:13SPEAKERLike I'm I've been waiting to upgrade the b-link machine that is my NAS

1:01:18SPEAKERThat it has like game servers and Plex and stuff on it because I'm waiting for this particular part

1:01:23SPEAKERSo I've been putting off buying an n100 for a while because I mean a I don't like desperately need one

1:01:28SPEAKERMy router still works fine for the time being but but also I kind of wanted to wait for this anyway now

1:01:34SPEAKERI'm telling you I'm looking at Intel site

1:01:36SPEAKERI searched for Wildcat Lake and the first result is a software download for the display virtualization

1:01:42SPEAKERVirtualization drivers for Wildcat Lake a beta really? So if December 14th 2025, yeah, if you're oh interesting

1:01:49SPEAKERSo if you're if you're a forensics reader, uh-huh, probably I am the most exhaustive Linux news site on the internet

1:01:57SPEAKERThe Intel has been adding with some Wildcat Lake bits to the Linux kernel for a little bit now

1:02:03SPEAKERSo hmm, it does seem like it's on the way. I was surprised to see apparently the first I

1:02:09SPEAKERDude, I can't keep track of Intel's branding. Is it core ultra 300? Is that the new core ultra?

1:02:17SPEAKERLake right. Yeah. Okay. So the first Panther Lake stuff is shipping like now, right?

1:02:22SPEAKERLike well, the embargo was up the other day. We had we cut we talked about in the full nerd this week, right?

1:02:26SPEAKERRight, so that kind of caught me by surprise. I don't think Wildcat Lake is part of this initial wave

1:02:31SPEAKERIt is not but yeah

1:02:33SPEAKERI'm hoping that it's as you can probably tell like I care more about this thing than I do the actual Panther Lake

1:02:39SPEAKERYeah, my guess is that they'll that they'll the Wildcat Lake stuff will sneak out later this year

1:02:43SPEAKERYeah, like I and who knows how long after that before the the mini pcs of the world start switching to it

1:02:49SPEAKERAssuming they even do

1:02:50SPEAKERI'm not 100%

1:02:53SPEAKERSure, all this is gonna pan out the way I want it to but it always takes longer than you want for them to show

1:02:58SPEAKERup in like the

1:02:59SPEAKER$300 beat links and stuff like that and even then are they gonna start shipping ones with 10 gigabit networking in them right away

1:03:05SPEAKERprobably not like it could be a while before I

1:03:08SPEAKERGuarantee you that minis forum as soon as they get this is gonna put it in something that you can use for a home lab

1:03:13SPEAKERYeah, you're probably right like that is a hundred percent their bread and butter like like like my excitement here is a chip

1:03:19SPEAKERThat is potentially as fast as we're talking about fab donna process that is hopefully as low power as we think 18a is going to

1:03:25SPEAKERbe

1:03:26SPEAKERwith 10 gigabit land built into it

1:03:29SPEAKEREspecially as we talk a lot about pulling your Wi-Fi out of your router

1:03:34SPEAKERLike this kind of could be the last router I ever buy until it dies

1:03:38SPEAKERYeah, because who's gonna have a connection in their house faster than 10 gigabit anytime soon for the next couple decades

1:03:45SPEAKERNo, we're good. It's literally like you get this thing and configure it and then buy another router

1:03:51SPEAKERmaybe so the question is would you rather have a I mean also with with six PCI Express lanes, you'd have room for a

1:03:59SPEAKERHalf, you know two lanes of NVMe or four lanes of NVMe and two lanes of Nick

1:04:05SPEAKERYeah, so like you could put an SFA SFP card or something like that in there to us. Yeah, sure

1:04:10SPEAKERYeah, there's there's options seems like a lot of potential with this platform. I'm excited. Yeah, it's cool

1:04:15SPEAKERIt's a good lake. Yes. Okay. Well speaking of good lakes last question real quick. You're from DC actual

1:04:22SPEAKERDo we know why everything at Intel is Lake?

1:04:25SPEAKERYeah, they've done this forever it used to be places in Oregon, I think oh

1:04:30SPEAKERWe're liking the Halem and stuff like that. Yeah, that's what the Halem and Airmont and all those were okay

1:04:37SPEAKERThe lake stuff started

1:04:39SPEAKERI don't know when the lake stuff started Skylake is the first one I remember but I'm sure there were some before that

1:04:45SPEAKERI

1:04:46SPEAKERthink there were

1:04:48SPEAKERBefore Skylake for sure. Actually Wikipedia as always has a handy table here God going back to the early 90s

1:04:56SPEAKERYeah of Intel. Wow, they use planets for a long time. Apparently that was before I care

1:05:04SPEAKERWould you a trail Bay trails code name was Bay Lake apparently those motherboards would you would you like to know what the Intel Batman was?

1:05:12SPEAKERWhat was the Intel Batman? It was a

1:05:16SPEAKERIt was an Intel premier PCI motherboard socket for 430 LX chipset

1:05:22SPEAKERThat's wild. I need to look up more about the Intel Batman

1:05:26SPEAKERThey also have an Intel Batman's revenge

1:05:29SPEAKERGod, there was a 2006 bear Lake chipset for motherboards as well

1:05:35SPEAKERI

1:05:37SPEAKERDon't know why they started using lakes. I think they ran out of other

1:05:40SPEAKERI want to say they ran out of mountains is what they started with. I would believe that I am looking rock Lake in

1:05:48SPEAKER2003 was a motherboard, but it looks like they did not use another lake until battle Lake

1:05:55SPEAKERThe annoying thing is they have families for their process for their architectures and then they codename

1:06:01SPEAKERThe sub chips in the families as well

1:06:04SPEAKERSo like Nehalem is a family with like a hundred and fifty

1:06:09SPEAKERProcessors at it, right? Mm-hmm

1:06:11SPEAKERAnd it's named after either the net town of Nehalem in Tillamook County or the Nehalem River. It's unclear

1:06:19SPEAKEROkay, they've been using lakes off and on for a while even before the CPUs

1:06:22SPEAKERI think they started the lakes with the Alder Lake is the modern interpretation of the lake

1:06:28SPEAKERYeah, like there was a diamond Lake in 2006, which was a controller ASIC at the center of the Robson flash cache technology

1:06:34SPEAKERThat's the one I was thinking about. Yeah, of course. Everybody knows diamond Lake Berg Lake

1:06:39SPEAKERturbo memory module in the Robson flash cache

1:06:42SPEAKERI think you're right. I think let me see Skylake

1:06:48SPEAKERMore than you ever wanted to know about lakes

1:06:50SPEAKERYeah, Skylake. I think Skylake was the beginning of the Intel CPU Lake trend

1:06:55SPEAKERSky Lake KB Lake Cannon Lake Coffee Lake

1:07:00SPEAKERMy guess is they do it because there's a lot of lakes out there

1:07:03SPEAKERThere are a lot of lakes in the heart of the country where the headquarters and stuff are like there

1:07:08SPEAKERI bet there are like way more lakes than you think out there. They're probably never going to run out of lakes and

1:07:13SPEAKERcoves lakes and coves

1:07:16SPEAKERSo there's an article that's copied and pasted into this reddit thing

1:07:20SPEAKERInto this reddit article because the original source is gone now

1:07:24SPEAKERBut they the code names are all things that the the bucket

1:07:29SPEAKERCategory for their code names according to one of their to jeff trip who was Intel senior strategic planner whenever this article was written

1:07:37SPEAKERIs that it's all geographical place names from the North America?

1:07:42SPEAKEROkay, that checks out and they they tend to skew towards, Oregon where the design team is

1:07:49SPEAKERAnd that goes all the way back to the 90s who's like with Tillamook and and you know

1:07:54SPEAKERall the all of the early Willamette and all those so I think some of them one of these I'll actually looked up one of

1:08:01SPEAKERThese lakes a while back is in Canada. I'm not mistaken. It's all North America. Yeah fair

1:08:06SPEAKERAlright, okay. That's it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah

1:08:10SPEAKERI mean, I think

1:08:11SPEAKERPart of this is that Microsoft didn't Microsoft get in trouble for naming an OS Chicago or something at some point

1:08:16SPEAKERWas it the musical? So did they really well Chicago was the code name for Windows 95? Yeah, but it was just a code name

1:08:24SPEAKERI don't surely they couldn't

1:08:26SPEAKERtrouble for that

1:08:27SPEAKERAre they so this is another quote from that article? Yeah, it's down here later. That's weird

1:08:32SPEAKERThe Intel engineering team decided on a code name, but then you run into legal problems with your code name

1:08:37SPEAKERSo for example Microsoft had a problem with the Chicago

1:08:40SPEAKERSo Intel learned that your code name should be something that not many people care about you

1:08:44SPEAKERDon't have to go and fight the mayor of Chicago because we're using the name of their city for one of your products

1:08:48SPEAKERweird I

1:08:50SPEAKERthink we should I

1:08:52SPEAKERThink we should probably find out about this Chicago problem that Microsoft hadn't maybe that seems topical

1:08:58SPEAKERMaybe I just I'm still a little too fixated on the Intel Batman. I'm sorry

1:09:03SPEAKERYeah, well, I mean look that was probably was it 89 was that was early 90s?

1:09:09SPEAKEROkay, so it was Joel Schumacher Batman era probably us. Let me see that man. Everybody loves the most 93

1:09:15SPEAKERI don't know forever was out yet

1:09:17SPEAKER93 was when I was in high school

1:09:18SPEAKERI feel like I got McDonald's cups for the third one the one with the

1:09:24SPEAKER95

1:09:26SPEAKERAh, that forever was 95. So that was it was at the fourth one. Is that the third one third one?

1:09:31SPEAKERThe third one was called forever. Yes, it really messed that up. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah

1:09:36SPEAKERWell, anyway, I think that's as good a place as any to wrap it up for this week. Thanks everybody for listening

1:09:43SPEAKERWe appreciate each and every one of you

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1:10:56SPEAKERThanks everybody and thanks for your ongoing support. We appreciate all of you. We do

1:11:01SPEAKERWe will be back next week with another edition the tech pot. Hey, this is a this is let's kid. Should we tease something? Yes

1:11:08SPEAKERWe should say

1:11:10SPEAKERThat if you were feeling like you would maybe like to watch cat Halton catch fire, huh?

1:11:15SPEAKERAnd then listen to us talk about it and then listen to us talk about it. Probably a good time to start thinking about that

1:11:20SPEAKERYeah, yeah

1:11:21SPEAKERNo specific date in mind yet, but it could be soon

1:11:24SPEAKERIt might be the March of Halton catch fire who knows we'll see I'm talking about this for three or four years

1:11:29SPEAKERI think at this point well

1:11:30SPEAKERSo there's a monkey wrench in the plan because I talked to somebody who's a fan of the show today and also has a lot

1:11:36SPEAKERof knowledge of of that era of computers, okay, and he was like actually

1:11:42SPEAKERThe fourth season is no season, huh? And I was like, well, I was kind of interested in the story of the bias

1:11:48SPEAKERHe's like, okay. Well, then you're gonna like the first season. Okay, but the but they they they tried to madmen the first season

1:11:54SPEAKERSo like from a actual is this a good show or not?

1:11:58SPEAKERIt's it's maybe a little more madmen than the later seasons, which are actually quite good. Okay?

1:12:03SPEAKERYeah, well my I guess my biggest question is how computery it remains beyond the first season. My question is well

1:12:09SPEAKERI've only watched the first season so I don't know

1:12:11SPEAKERWhat if I found okay, so you've seen the whole thing so you can vouch that it is worth watching and talking about

1:12:15SPEAKERThe first season is rad. I like I think I think I'm I I kind of

1:12:20SPEAKERFrom my perspective. I'm actually in the process right now of looking for a book that I could read. That's about the same topic

1:12:25SPEAKERThat's a non-fictional book. Okay, and I want to see I want to read that so that at the same time we're talking about it

1:12:32SPEAKERWe have some actual historical data to compare. Yeah

1:12:35SPEAKERFor people who don't know and you correct me if I'm wrong

1:12:38SPEAKERLike this is basically a sort of semi fictionalized retelling of the rise of Compaq and the reverse engineering of the IBM PC

1:12:45SPEAKERCorrect. That's what the first season is about. Yeah. Okay. Yes. I have to see this. Yeah, so so

1:12:51SPEAKERYeah, and for folks who don't know we'll talk about in the future because it's it's a fascinating topic

1:12:54SPEAKERIs it is it like do they use the name Compaq and like names of the actual people remember?

1:12:59SPEAKERIs it more dramatized and fictionalized than they look? All I know is that they

1:13:04SPEAKERspecifically the the company that is Compaq

1:13:08SPEAKERSpecifically hires someone so they have deniability that they reverse engineered the BIOS and lock them in a room with an IBM PC

1:13:15SPEAKERAnd tell them to figure it out and they're like and like that's like the first episode

1:13:18SPEAKERSo kind of kind of remarkable to me that a show about that got made

1:13:21SPEAKERWell, it was in the wake of Mad Men. So, you know, okay. She was flush. They're just I'm just looking for other

1:13:28SPEAKERperiod period appropriate business stories

1:13:30SPEAKERThey got to get a lot of period pieces with guys in weird suits smoking. Yep smoking and womanizing. Oh, that's right

1:13:37SPEAKERYeah, the Empire is in it Empire. Oh you haven't watched

1:13:43SPEAKERFoundation, huh? Oh, I have wait Empire Lee

1:13:48SPEAKERGoing to say that's right. I was going to say I'd forgotten what Lee pays is in this which is dreamboat very exciting

1:13:53SPEAKERYeah, that guy's wild. All right, if you like Lee pace and you have a watch foundation, you are missing out man

1:13:58SPEAKERI should probably check that out. That is that is some

1:14:02SPEAKERtop-notch Lee pace

1:14:04SPEAKERAnyway, thanks for listening bonus extra content after the pod. But yeah watch help and catch fire and we'll talk about in a couple months

1:14:11SPEAKERAnd that'll do it for us this week as always please consider the environment before pinching this podcast

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