00:00SPEAKER- Okay, I got a problem.
00:01SPEAKER- Well, we are nothing if not problem solvers around here,
00:03SPEAKERso. (laughs)
00:05SPEAKER- So my desk was messy and I was like,
00:08SPEAKERI'm gonna clean up my desk.
00:10SPEAKERAnd then I got partway through cleaning up my desk
00:12SPEAKERand I had to do some other stuff.
00:14SPEAKERSo now the cleaning up my desk process is mid-completion
00:18SPEAKERand has made my office a literal disaster zone.
00:21SPEAKER- How long has it been in this particular state?
00:24SPEAKER- I don't wanna talk about that.
00:25SPEAKERIt's been longer than I'm comfortable with.
00:27SPEAKER- That's the important question.
00:29SPEAKERHow long has it persisted?
00:30SPEAKERI've been there before.
00:32SPEAKERAre we talking?
00:33SPEAKEROkay.
00:34SPEAKER- It's been more than a week.
00:34SPEAKER- Oh wow, okay.
00:35SPEAKER- It might've been more than two weeks.
00:37SPEAKER- I was literally about to ask,
00:38SPEAKERare we talking hours or days?
00:41SPEAKERI was expecting you to just hit me with weeks off the bat,
00:43SPEAKERbut all right.
00:44SPEAKER- Look, okay, so I started working on it,
00:47SPEAKERI think before the last, not this week's peak stream,
00:51SPEAKERbut the peak stream before that.
00:53SPEAKERIt might've been the week before that though,
00:55SPEAKER'cause I think we've done three of those.
00:57SPEAKER- True, yes.
00:58SPEAKER- Yeah, so.
00:59SPEAKER- That was almost three weeks ago.
01:01SPEAKER- Look, it's hard to say.
01:03SPEAKERWell, but there's two days a week
01:04SPEAKERthat I don't come into this room,
01:05SPEAKER'cause like on PC World days,
01:07SPEAKERwhich are usually Tuesday and Wednesday,
01:09SPEAKERI pretty much like go get up in the morning,
01:11SPEAKERgo into the office, work all day,
01:13SPEAKERand then come home and fall asleep on the couch.
01:15SPEAKER- Okay, all right, it sounds like it's solid day's work.
01:17SPEAKERAre you just laptoping at those days?
01:19SPEAKER- I'm just laptoping at those days, yeah.
01:22SPEAKERSo then those days are kind of in my head dead days.
01:25SPEAKERAnd also like the weekends, 'cause it's summer break,
01:27SPEAKERare pretty busy and are mostly family time.
01:29SPEAKERAnd I often am not turning on my PC
01:31SPEAKERat all on weekends right now.
01:33SPEAKERThe Switch 2 has contributed to this as well.
01:36SPEAKER- I could see it.
01:36SPEAKERGod, I've forgotten what it's like to go to an office
01:38SPEAKERand not have the desk at home be your work desk all the time.
01:41SPEAKERLike I used to be like you,
01:42SPEAKERthere used to be like days would go by
01:44SPEAKERthat I wouldn't even turn on the computer.
01:46SPEAKEROr I would, I'd usually use it for like an hour
01:48SPEAKERin the morning when I was having coffee
01:50SPEAKERbefore I went to the office.
01:51SPEAKERBut beyond that, it was like the computer was just like
01:53SPEAKERa thing I used occasionally here at home
01:55SPEAKERand not the thing that was on for 12 hours every day.
01:58SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't know.
01:59SPEAKERI'm gonna have to work on it this weekend,
02:00SPEAKEReven though it's a holiday weekend.
02:01SPEAKERI was thinking I was gonna try
02:03SPEAKERto not come in here too much this weekend.
02:05SPEAKERBut here we are, like now it's bad.
02:08SPEAKERIt's been so long that I'm gonna have to just start over.
02:11SPEAKERYou know?
02:12SPEAKER- Let me just ask this.
02:13SPEAKERAre there any dishes?
02:15SPEAKER- Oh God, no, I don't eat food in here.
02:16SPEAKER- And you feel, wow, you don't eat at all at your desk?
02:18SPEAKER- Hardly ever.
02:19SPEAKER- Okay, that man, I am jealous/in admiration, I guess,
02:24SPEAKERof that kind of self-control.
02:25SPEAKERI eat in here way more than I should.
02:27SPEAKERAnd I'm pretty tidy about it, but still it's bad.
02:30SPEAKER- I think the big difference is that my wife and daughter
02:32SPEAKERare here often during the daytime.
02:34SPEAKERSo going out to have lunch is an important time for me.
02:40SPEAKERSo sometimes I'll have a soup.
02:42SPEAKERI don't eat stuff with crumbs in here, I guess is the rule.
02:44SPEAKER- Sensible, sure.
02:46SPEAKERSoup can be sloppy though.
02:47SPEAKERSometimes you get the wrong kind of soup.
02:50SPEAKERA morsel of some kind falls from the spoon
02:52SPEAKERand lands in the soup and the soup splats.
02:55SPEAKERAlso, the place that I put my bowl typically
02:57SPEAKERis to the left of me.
02:59SPEAKER- Yeah, you don't put it in the mouse.
03:01SPEAKER- Well, no, right, but also that bowl
03:02SPEAKERis right on the edge of the desk,
03:04SPEAKERhovering right over the tower.
03:06SPEAKERSo soup splatters have narrowly missed the USB ports
03:09SPEAKERon top of the computer a few times, which is not good.
03:12SPEAKER- Oh yeah, that's bad.
03:13SPEAKEROkay, so I would never eat ramen in here
03:15SPEAKER'cause I don't want to get slurps on the monitor.
03:19SPEAKERI stopped eating food in here
03:20SPEAKER'cause I used to solder in here a lot more.
03:22SPEAKERAnd that meant there were little bits of,
03:24SPEAKERlike I've used lead-free solder for a long time,
03:26SPEAKERbut I'm still like squeamish about eating around places
03:30SPEAKERwhere I solder for obvious reasons.
03:32SPEAKERSo yeah, I don't know, man.
03:34SPEAKERI just don't eat too much in here.
03:35SPEAKERBut yeah, like I'm gonna have to,
03:38SPEAKERwhat I did was I did the thing
03:39SPEAKERwhere I took everything off the desk and I put it in a box
03:41SPEAKERand now the box has become a problem.
03:43SPEAKER- Dude, I am looking around.
03:45SPEAKERThere are like eight hotspots in this room
03:47SPEAKERof that exact same phenomenon.
03:48SPEAKERIt's like, oh, okay, that is,
03:50SPEAKERlet's say that's like March to June 2024's desk contents
03:54SPEAKERthat are now perched on top of this piano over here.
03:57SPEAKERAnd then the four months before that
03:58SPEAKERare over in the corner behind that.
04:00SPEAKER- Well, so I fixed my, I needed,
04:02SPEAKERthis comes up because the other day
04:04SPEAKERI fixed the dead display on the front of my receiver.
04:08SPEAKER- Great, excellent.
04:10SPEAKER- I think somebody in chat in the Discord
04:12SPEAKERhad recommended just opening it up
04:14SPEAKERand hitting all the contact points with the soldering iron
04:18SPEAKERand that would fix it.
04:19SPEAKERAnd I will tell you, absolutely did.
04:22SPEAKER- By hitting, you mean you used no additional solder.
04:25SPEAKERYou literally just touched the tip of the pen
04:27SPEAKERto the existing solder
04:28SPEAKERand it just kind of re-floated or whatever?
04:31SPEAKER- Look, so I put a little bit extra solder on one of them
04:33SPEAKER'cause it was like, so, okay,
04:35SPEAKERso it was pigs in the Discord had said,
04:37SPEAKERhey, there were a lot of cold solders
04:39SPEAKERor cracked solders on mine.
04:41SPEAKERAnd when I touched them, then it fixed it.
04:43SPEAKERAnd there was one that it didn't get quite enough on there
04:46SPEAKERthat I was comfortable with the amount of solder
04:48SPEAKERthat was remaining 'cause there were holes and stuff.
04:50SPEAKER- You could just tell by sight.
04:52SPEAKER- Yeah, I did look at it and see it wasn't a great job.
04:54SPEAKERSo I did just a smidge more solder on that one.
04:58SPEAKERAnd I plugged it back in, powered it up.
05:01SPEAKERActually, I'm gonna be honest,
05:02SPEAKERI didn't even unplug it when I opened it up.
05:04SPEAKERI opened it up and I unplugged,
05:05SPEAKER'cause it doesn't have a loose cable on the back.
05:08SPEAKERThis is a wide ranging cold open,
05:10SPEAKERbut there's a connector from the power externally
05:14SPEAKERto the board inside that I could just pop off.
05:17SPEAKERIt was a little scary.
05:18SPEAKER- I mean, there's some pretty big electrical equipment
05:20SPEAKERin those receivers, right?
05:21SPEAKER- Yeah, I was very careful.
05:22SPEAKER- Yes, okay.
05:23SPEAKER- So yeah, I did that.
05:24SPEAKERIt took longer to disassemble it
05:26SPEAKERthan it did to do the solder paperwork to fix it.
05:29SPEAKER- A, that must've been a great feeling,
05:31SPEAKERfiring that thing up and seeing it work.
05:32SPEAKERB, I wish I had known all this before I paid somebody
05:35SPEAKERlike a hundred dollars to do this.
05:36SPEAKERGranted, it was like seven, six, seven years ago.
05:40SPEAKERWay before I had a pintzel
05:41SPEAKERand would have been capable of doing it, but.
05:43SPEAKER- Mine's been not working for so long
05:45SPEAKERthat my daughter didn't know it had a screen.
05:47SPEAKER- That's amazing.
05:48SPEAKER- It doesn't matter though.
05:49SPEAKER'Cause it's like HDMI CEC.
05:50SPEAKERSo as long as everything works,
05:52SPEAKERit just switches to it and everything's cool.
05:55SPEAKERIt's only when you plug in something
05:56SPEAKERthat doesn't support CEC or that it doesn't work
05:59SPEAKERthat it's a problem.
06:00SPEAKER- Also, is that receiver older than your daughter?
06:02SPEAKERIt's gotta be close.
06:03SPEAKER- Absolutely.
06:04SPEAKER- Great.
06:05SPEAKER- Yeah, no, there's no doubt.
06:06SPEAKER'Cause I bought that, that was part of TV Quest,
06:09SPEAKERwhich we did when we were still
06:10SPEAKERin the old whiskey basement, I think.
06:12SPEAKER- Wow.
06:13SPEAKER- And she was post whiskey basement.
06:16SPEAKER- Wow, man, that is a long serving receiver.
06:18SPEAKER- I think she was conceived probably
06:20SPEAKERafter a Friday night whiskey anyway.
06:23SPEAKER- Okay, well, I'm not gonna get into
06:24SPEAKERhow the receiver might've been involved in that,
06:26SPEAKERbut congratulations to your daughter and your receiver.
06:29SPEAKER(laughing)
06:31SPEAKER(upbeat music)
06:46SPEAKER(upbeat music)
06:59SPEAKER- Welcome to Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod, I'm Will.
07:02SPEAKER- I'm Brad, hello.
07:03SPEAKER- Hi, hello, hi, hi, hello.
07:05SPEAKER- Greetings.
07:06SPEAKERNormally we might've done the dirty desk
07:09SPEAKERas the cold open and the resurrecting your receiver
07:11SPEAKERas the host music banter, but.
07:14SPEAKER- Now we're just gonna get right into the topic this week.
07:17SPEAKER- I know, we've burned all of our stuff already.
07:19SPEAKER- Products that changed everything.
07:23SPEAKERThis is the, is this the third one or the second one
07:25SPEAKERin a now long running series?
07:27SPEAKER- Name them all, Xbox 360, right?
07:30SPEAKER- And the IntelliMouse Explorer, right?
07:32SPEAKER- IntelliMouse Explorer. - The optical mouse.
07:33SPEAKER- Yeah, I think that's it.
07:34SPEAKER- Okay, so this is number three.
07:35SPEAKERWe're parceling these out with caution and consideration.
07:40SPEAKER- I think we might be on a roughly
07:42SPEAKERone a year cadence on these.
07:43SPEAKER- That seems like, that seems right.
07:45SPEAKERLike you don't add, look, you don't vote
07:47SPEAKERfor the hall of fame every month.
07:48SPEAKER- That's true. - You know?
07:49SPEAKER- That's true, and you know, by definition,
07:50SPEAKERthere can only be so many products out there
07:52SPEAKERthat changed everything.
07:53SPEAKER- Yeah, and this one is, it's a mixed bag this week.
08:00SPEAKERIt's ups and downs because we have,
08:03SPEAKERwe're inducting this new product into the cat,
08:05SPEAKERinto the hall of fame, basically,
08:09SPEAKERbecause they're ending support for it.
08:12SPEAKER- That's timely for once. - End of life.
08:14SPEAKER- Yeah, for once this was a timely one.
08:16SPEAKERIt is the GeForce GTX 1080/1080 Ti
08:21SPEAKERis what we're talking about.
08:22SPEAKER- I mean, look, I think it's probably the 1080,
08:26SPEAKERoh shit, Mr. Softy's here, hold on.
08:27SPEAKER- Wait, what?
08:29SPEAKER- Hold on, hold on.
08:31SPEAKERI'm placing an order with the child.
08:32SPEAKERShe just ran out.
08:34SPEAKER- Wait, is this going in the podcast?
08:35SPEAKERWe have to keep talking, if so.
08:36SPEAKER- Yeah, we should keep talking.
08:38SPEAKER- All right, are you gonna walk us through your Mr. Day?
08:40SPEAKEROh, look, bonus surprise post-show
08:42SPEAKERor post-episode music banter.
08:44SPEAKER- Yeah, this is, Mr. Softy is out on the street
08:48SPEAKERin front of my house right now.
08:50SPEAKER- Wait, does Mr. Softy have an app?
08:52SPEAKER- Oh, hell yeah, but I hear the music through the window.
08:54SPEAKER- Okay, Mr. Softy, like, franchises that can-
08:56SPEAKER(humming)
08:59SPEAKER- Yeah, it's mostly in California and New York, it turns out.
09:03SPEAKERThey, wow, he's literally on our street.
09:06SPEAKER- Yeah, no, they redid the, you know, the classic song
09:10SPEAKERfor the ice cream truck is a little racist,
09:13SPEAKERso they redid Turkey in the Straw.
09:16SPEAKER- Oh, oh, oh, sure, yes, okay.
09:19SPEAKER- Pretty racist.
09:20SPEAKERSo they made a non-racist version of the music.
09:23SPEAKER- Can you sing it a little bit?
09:25SPEAKER(humming)
09:26SPEAKER- Here, I can just open the app and it'll play.
09:28SPEAKER- Oh, great, 'cause there is an ice cream truck
09:30SPEAKERthat I hear around here, too,
09:30SPEAKERand I would love to know if that's also Mr. Softy.
09:32SPEAKER- I'm sure it's Mr. Softy.
09:34SPEAKERI have not seen any other non-Mr. Softy ice cream trucks.
09:37SPEAKER- Yep, that's the one, 100%.
09:40SPEAKER- Famously, Robert Downey Jr. wore a Mr. Softy t-shirt
09:44SPEAKERin the start of one of the Iron Man movies,
09:46SPEAKERI can't remember which one.
09:47SPEAKERAnyway, so products has changed everything.
09:52SPEAKERThe 1080i specifically, but Pascal really,
09:57SPEAKERwas a turning point, both good and bad,
10:00SPEAKERfor modern graphics, right?
10:01SPEAKERIt was the first real good DirectX 12 GPU.
10:06SPEAKERIt was the first thing that you could do 4K on
10:09SPEAKERin most shipping current games.
10:13SPEAKERIt was the beginning of mining,
10:17SPEAKERwhich was incredibly detrimental for enthusiast gamers
10:20SPEAKERfor the next, like, well, eight years or something,
10:23SPEAKERseven years. - Sure, yes, sure.
10:26SPEAKER- And they're ending support for those cards
10:30SPEAKERin drivers, starting with the next kind of major release
10:33SPEAKERfor the Nvidia drivers and Nvidia Unified drivers, so.
10:36SPEAKER- Yes, so they ended CUDA support
10:39SPEAKERfor this thing back in May, which may not be related,
10:42SPEAKERbut it does seem, the timing does seem
10:43SPEAKERless than coincidental, maybe.
10:45SPEAKER- I think, I mean, I think anybody serious
10:49SPEAKERusing graphics cards for computing
10:52SPEAKERprobably wasn't using CUDA on a 1080,
10:55SPEAKERwith the exception maybe of the DeepSeek folks.
10:58SPEAKER- Sure. - 'Cause they famous,
10:59SPEAKERthey trained that on a giant 1080 cluster.
11:02SPEAKER- Is that verified?
11:04SPEAKER- That's what all the reporting was
11:06SPEAKERat the time that that thing came out.
11:07SPEAKER- Oh, that's crazy.
11:08SPEAKER- Yeah, 'cause they bought, 'cause, you know,
11:11SPEAKERmainland China, they bought those GPUs
11:12SPEAKERbefore there was an embargo. - Sure.
11:14SPEAKER- And a lot of them were 1080s and 1080 TIs
11:16SPEAKERand Pascal- - Interesting.
11:18SPEAKERWell, you know, it's still easy to believe
11:20SPEAKERthat this is all part of a planned, planned obsolescence,
11:23SPEAKERyou know, phased rollout, or phased, phased, phased out?
11:27SPEAKERWhat am I trying to say here?
11:28SPEAKERLike, they probably, I assume, have planned, you know,
11:30SPEAKERto end support for both CUDA and now drivers.
11:33SPEAKERLike, that's the thing I was trying to get to,
11:35SPEAKERis that now we have word from NVIDIA
11:37SPEAKERthat what we think is the next release
11:39SPEAKERof the common NVIDIA drivers will be the last version
11:42SPEAKERto support the Pascal cards, the 10 cards.
11:45SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, and there may be point releases
11:47SPEAKERbetween now and when it happens,
11:48SPEAKERbut it's gonna be soon, is the kind of TLDR.
11:50SPEAKER- We don't know exactly what NVIDIA's driver roadmap is,
11:52SPEAKERbut just for anybody listening who's still using a 1080
11:55SPEAKERand wants to know this information,
11:56SPEAKERwe're on 576 drivers right now.
11:59SPEAKERAnd they're saying 580 will be the last 10 series release.
12:03SPEAKER- Yeah, this was reported by Tech Power Up
12:07SPEAKERand a bunch of other places.
12:08SPEAKERIt was part of their messaging to developers, basically.
12:11SPEAKER- Yeah, and it came off of the NVIDIA developer forum
12:14SPEAKERfor Unix graphics, is how they describe it.
12:17SPEAKER- Yeah.
12:17SPEAKER- But the Linux drivers track, I believe,
12:19SPEAKERthe same versions as the Windows drivers,
12:21SPEAKERso this should be common to all versions.
12:23SPEAKER- Yeah, they're saying they're killing support
12:26SPEAKERbecause it's, well, A, it's time,
12:27SPEAKERbut B, it lets them focus on the newer cards
12:30SPEAKERand stuff like that.
12:32SPEAKERAlong with Pascal, which is the 10 series,
12:35SPEAKERthey're killing Maxwell as well,
12:38SPEAKERwhich is, I think, seven, eight, and nine,
12:41SPEAKERsome seven, some eight, and some nine series cards.
12:43SPEAKER- Just crazy to me to think that there were 700 cards
12:46SPEAKERstill out there supported.
12:48SPEAKER- My bet is that they're probably mobile
12:50SPEAKER'cause there's a lot of laptops that shipped later
12:52SPEAKERwith Maxwell GPUs, but we're not here to talk about that.
12:56SPEAKER- Well, no, but since you mentioned it,
13:01SPEAKERI don't remember an 800 series.
13:03SPEAKER- That was mobile only.
13:04SPEAKER- Oh, was it?
13:05SPEAKEROkay, well, there we go.
13:06SPEAKER- Yeah, so, or they may have done discrete parts
13:12SPEAKERfor weird HP machines and stuff like that
13:14SPEAKERthat were based on mobile, but yeah.
13:16SPEAKER- But there was no 880 or anything?
13:19SPEAKER- There was an 880, but I think it was
13:21SPEAKERin the prior naming scheme.
13:23SPEAKERI'd have to look.
13:26SPEAKERIt doesn't matter.
13:27SPEAKERWe're not talking about that.
13:28SPEAKER- Oh, look, I like reminiscing
13:29SPEAKERabout old graphics card model numbers, but anyway.
13:32SPEAKER- The, well, okay, so the point, though,
13:35SPEAKERis looking at this, my initial reaction,
13:39SPEAKER'cause we talked about this on The Full Nerd a little bit
13:41SPEAKERover the last six or eight months,
13:42SPEAKER'cause they said when the five series came out
13:45SPEAKERthat the 10 series cards were gonna get deprecated
13:47SPEAKERat some point in the future, not too distant future.
13:51SPEAKERMy initial thought was, oh my god,
13:54SPEAKERit's way too early for them to do that.
13:56SPEAKERThat's crazy.
13:57SPEAKERAnd then I looked at the dates that the 10 series launched,
14:01SPEAKERwhich the original 10 series cards came out in 2016.
14:05SPEAKERThe 1080 Ti came out and was announced at GDC in 2017,
14:09SPEAKERso March or April of 2017.
14:13SPEAKERI think it was actually announced at the G-Force Tech,
14:15SPEAKERthe graphics tech conference,
14:16SPEAKERwhatever Nvidia's thing is called,
14:17SPEAKERbut it was GDC timeframe.
14:19SPEAKERAnd if my math is right, that means that the 1080,
14:25SPEAKERthe original 1080 came out nine years ago, almost.
14:30SPEAKERIt's probably okay that they're killing support for it
14:32SPEAKERat this point. - It's probably time.
14:34SPEAKER- Yeah. - Probably past time.
14:35SPEAKER- Yeah, and just to be clear,
14:37SPEAKERyou'll still be able to download the legacy driver.
14:40SPEAKERThey're not gonna kill support,
14:41SPEAKERand it's just that you have to download a legacy driver
14:43SPEAKERfor current unsupported hardware,
14:45SPEAKERand that will mean that you don't get,
14:48SPEAKERlike updates for new titles and stuff like that,
14:51SPEAKERlike you would with a newer card.
14:53SPEAKER- But like support functionality in newer games
14:56SPEAKERis gonna probably get more and more spotty over time.
14:58SPEAKER- Yeah, so I mean, we can talk about that now,
15:00SPEAKERskip ahead a little bit if you want,
15:02SPEAKER'cause Adam, Patrick Murray, friend of the show
15:04SPEAKERover at PC World did some testing of the 1080.
15:07SPEAKERI think the Ti versus the B580
15:11SPEAKERwhen Intel launched the Battlemage cards earlier this year.
15:14SPEAKERAnd the interesting thing about it was
15:16SPEAKERthat the average frame rates were kind of okay,
15:18SPEAKERbut the 1% lows were really, really bad on the 1080 Ti,
15:21SPEAKERpresumably because of either optimization problems
15:25SPEAKERor some inherent limitation of the pipeline
15:28SPEAKERwith regard to how more modern cards are designed.
15:33SPEAKERThe reason we're talking about this
15:36SPEAKERis 'cause when these cards came out,
15:37SPEAKERthe 1080 was good,
15:39SPEAKERbut the 1080 Ti was really a god tier card.
15:41SPEAKERLike it was a cut down Pascal Titan card,
15:45SPEAKERwhich they basically turned off one SM core,
15:50SPEAKERand then they sold it for half price, right?
15:53SPEAKERSo it was like the 1080 launched at 599,
15:57SPEAKERthe 1080 Ti launched at 699 bucks a year later.
16:02SPEAKERIt was way, way like 30% faster, 40% faster in some stuff.
16:06SPEAKERIt was faster than the Pascal Titan
16:08SPEAKERbecause they clocked the memory higher.
16:10SPEAKERAnd it had a buttload of RAM for a consumer card.
16:14SPEAKERIt had 11 gigs of RAM at the time,
16:15SPEAKERwhich now we're like, everybody's like,
16:17SPEAKER"Oh, I don't know, eight gigs, 12 gigs."
16:19SPEAKERThat's definitely not enough.
16:20SPEAKER- 1212 is on the bubble these days.
16:22SPEAKER- But back then, 11 gig cards were nuts, right?
16:24SPEAKERThat was crazy.
16:25SPEAKER'Cause most people were playing at 1080p
16:27SPEAKERor lower resolutions.
16:29SPEAKER4K monitors were brand new and crazy expensive.
16:34SPEAKERI had bought one for Fusho stuff 'cause we were doing,
16:37SPEAKERwe needed 4K for an adults home project
16:39SPEAKERthat we were working on.
16:41SPEAKERAnd in order to get a monitor that could do 4K,
16:47SPEAKERI had to pay a ridiculous amount of money.
16:49SPEAKERLike it was really expensive.
16:50SPEAKER- What connection standard were they using at that time?
16:53SPEAKER- It was a display port, like 1.1 or 1.2 or something.
16:57SPEAKERI don't remember.
16:58SPEAKER- Okay.
16:59SPEAKER- But the point is, it was locked at 60.
17:02SPEAKERThe 60 was the highest you could go
17:04SPEAKER'cause we didn't have connection standards
17:05SPEAKERthat would move enough data to go higher than that.
17:08SPEAKERAnd you really didn't play games at 4K.
17:11SPEAKERYou played games at 1080p if you had a nice machine.
17:14SPEAKER1440 was kind of starting to move on,
17:16SPEAKERbut it was still, those were still kind of a novelty, right?
17:20SPEAKER- Yeah.
17:22SPEAKER- So when the TI came out at 699 bucks,
17:25SPEAKERyou were looking at a card, like I said,
17:27SPEAKERit had 10, 11 gigs of RAM versus eight gigs
17:30SPEAKERand it had 11 gigs instead of an even number
17:32SPEAKERbecause of the weird,
17:33SPEAKERthe way they cut down those cores from the Pascal.
17:37SPEAKERSo you had one less RAM chip on the card, basically.
17:40SPEAKERIt was a 352-bit memory bus versus a 256-bit memory bus.
17:44SPEAKERSo you had more memory bandwidth
17:45SPEAKEReven at the same clock speeds.
17:46SPEAKERAnd then they clocked it up a little bit
17:48SPEAKERover the Pascal Titan card.
17:51SPEAKERIt had 3,584 shading units versus 2,560 on the 1080 vanilla.
17:59SPEAKERTMUs, texture units were 224 versus 160.
18:03SPEAKERROPs were 88 versus 64 and the SM units were 28 versus 20.
18:08SPEAKERSo like, it was more of everything,
18:11SPEAKERwhich was unusual for a TI at this point.
18:13SPEAKERPreviously, the TIs were kind of clocked up
18:15SPEAKERor process shrinks or something like that.
18:16SPEAKER- Sure.
18:17SPEAKER- And this was, it was exciting.
18:20SPEAKER- ROPs, raster units of some kind, right?
18:22SPEAKER- Raster operation pipelines, I believe.
18:24SPEAKER- And then SM.
18:26SPEAKER- I don't remember what SMs meant at this time.
18:29SPEAKERShader model units maybe, but I don't think that's right.
18:31SPEAKERIt might be, it might be, let me look.
18:34SPEAKER- Streaming multiprocessor.
18:35SPEAKERThat was what I was gonna guess, actually.
18:37SPEAKER- Yeah, streaming multiprocessor.
18:39SPEAKERSo it was, it was stupid fast.
18:44SPEAKERYou could run stuff at 4K.
18:46SPEAKERThat was novel when the 1080 TI came out.
18:49SPEAKER- Yes, so I've got a little anecdote here.
18:51SPEAKERI took an Nvidia meeting in 2017 at E3
18:54SPEAKERto go see Destiny 2 on PC, which was not out yet.
18:58SPEAKER- Running on a 1080 TI at native 4K.
19:02SPEAKER- Yeah.
19:03SPEAKER- It was the first time I had ever seen a native 4K game.
19:04SPEAKERAnd also this was pre DLSS, right?
19:07SPEAKER- Oh yeah.
19:08SPEAKER- I don't remember when DLSS rolled out.
19:09SPEAKER- The two series.
19:10SPEAKER- Okay, right, so this was-
19:11SPEAKER- It was midway through the two.
19:13SPEAKERIt was like a mid cycle update to the two.
19:15SPEAKER- So this was way before frame upscaling
19:18SPEAKERwas a twinkle in the consumer's eye.
19:20SPEAKER- Barmed table, a hundred percent real pixels.
19:23SPEAKER- Like if you were seeing a 4K game,
19:24SPEAKERit was natively rendering at 4K
19:26SPEAKERand it screamed on its 1080 TI.
19:29SPEAKER- Hella fast.
19:30SPEAKER- In fact, I will link,
19:31SPEAKERI put up all the capture of that appointment
19:34SPEAKERon the Giant Bomb YouTube channel at the time.
19:36SPEAKERAnd I will link that in the show notes.
19:37SPEAKER- I love, just as an aside,
19:39SPEAKERI love that you did this this way
19:40SPEAKERbecause it's not like there's no intro.
19:43SPEAKERThere's no, it's just like footage
19:46SPEAKERof the thing that they showed you
19:49SPEAKERwhile you were in that appointment.
19:50SPEAKER- That was the Giant Bomb spirit
19:52SPEAKERand approach to covering games was I came back.
19:54SPEAKERThey gave me, I think I've talked about this before.
19:56SPEAKERThey gave me, which what was at the time,
19:59SPEAKERa very nice 64 gigabyte USB thumb drive.
20:02SPEAKER- Oh yeah.
20:03SPEAKER- It was shaped like a 1080 TI.
20:05SPEAKERHave you seen these?
20:06SPEAKER- Oh, you got one of those?
20:07SPEAKER- Yeah, it's in my backpack out in the hall right now.
20:09SPEAKERStill a good USB stick.
20:10SPEAKER- Oh, those are so cool.
20:11SPEAKER- Yes, so they gave you the, I mean,
20:13SPEAKERI think you could buy them off their merch store
20:15SPEAKERat the time.
20:15SPEAKER- Eventually, I think, yeah.
20:17SPEAKER- But they gave me the file and I had the footage
20:19SPEAKERand I came back to the office and I was just like,
20:21SPEAKERwhy don't I just throw this into YouTube
20:23SPEAKERbecause YouTube can handle 4K videos now.
20:26SPEAKERDid not even cut it down, so it has four minutes
20:28SPEAKERof just a static menu at the end of the footage.
20:31SPEAKERLike I pulled that up earlier and I was like,
20:33SPEAKERah, how far I've come.
20:34SPEAKERLike now I would know how to losslessly chop that video up
20:36SPEAKERso that it was a little bit nicer than that.
20:39SPEAKERBut anyway.
20:40SPEAKER- So I don't see those thumb drives on eBay
20:43SPEAKERfor what it's worth.
20:43SPEAKER- Really?
20:44SPEAKER- No.
20:45SPEAKER- Well, that's still a valuable USB stick.
20:47SPEAKERIt's still the second biggest one I have.
20:49SPEAKER- You put Ventoy on that thing.
20:50SPEAKER- That's right.
20:51SPEAKER$325 with the box.
20:53SPEAKER- What?
20:54SPEAKER- Yeah.
20:55SPEAKER- Holy crap.
20:56SPEAKER- Yeah, people are really hot for those, just FYI.
21:00SPEAKER- Look, man, you can see why there might be a fandom
21:02SPEAKERthat has grown up around the 1080 Ti.
21:04SPEAKER- Well, so that's what I was gonna say
21:05SPEAKERis the thing about it was it lasted forever.
21:08SPEAKERSo because of the mining craze,
21:11SPEAKERbecause it was the min spec,
21:13SPEAKERlike the 970 was the min spec for VR stuff,
21:17SPEAKERit became a card that was the target card
21:22SPEAKERfor like five years for a lot of developers.
21:25SPEAKERAnd the stuff that came with the 2080 and the 3080
21:29SPEAKERwas ray tracing and DLSS support.
21:33SPEAKERBut fundamentally, the 1080, especially the 1080 Ti,
21:38SPEAKERif you had bought one of those for $700 in 2017,
21:41SPEAKERit was a card that lasted you through
21:43SPEAKERnot being able to get a GPU because of mining,
21:45SPEAKERnot being able to get a GPU because of the pandemic,
21:48SPEAKERnot being able to get a GPU
21:49SPEAKER'cause they suddenly got really, really expensive.
21:51SPEAKERAnd to the point that when Intel came around
21:55SPEAKERwith Battlemage, the thing that they said was,
22:00SPEAKER"Hey, we're targeting all the people
22:01SPEAKER"that are sitting on 1080 Ti's right now
22:03SPEAKER"and don't wanna spend $1,000 on a new video card," right?
22:06SPEAKERSo it was, it is the GOAT video card
22:13SPEAKERfor the modern DirectX 12 era up until the 4090 probably.
22:17SPEAKER- And it was perfectly positioned to draft off
22:19SPEAKERof the current consoles at the time.
22:20SPEAKERLike that's, I think that was actually a big part
22:22SPEAKERof the staying power.
22:27SPEAKER- You mean the Xbox One and PS4, yeah.
22:30SPEAKER- Like, you know, as we know,
22:31SPEAKERas we've seen for the last like three console generations,
22:34SPEAKERgame development always trickles down
22:35SPEAKERfrom whatever the consoles are at the time, right?
22:37SPEAKERLike games are developed against the current consoles
22:40SPEAKERand then PC benefits from being way faster
22:43SPEAKERthan those machines, right?
22:44SPEAKERBut running the same games,
22:45SPEAKERobviously they add extra effects and stuff
22:47SPEAKERand you can run them at high resolution,
22:49SPEAKERbut like the base development is targeted
22:51SPEAKERat much weaker hardware than you are likely to have
22:54SPEAKERif you build a PC even like a year
22:56SPEAKERafter new consoles come out.
22:58SPEAKERSo those consoles came out in 2013,
23:01SPEAKERthe PS4 and Xbox One, 2016.
23:04SPEAKERSo three years later for the regular 1080,
23:06SPEAKERfour years later for the 1080 Ti,
23:07SPEAKERthat was like perfect mid-gen placements
23:10SPEAKERfor here are cards with roughly the same capabilities,
23:13SPEAKERexcept a little more than the current consoles.
23:16SPEAKERWhen I say capabilities,
23:17SPEAKERI'm talking like specific features, not just speed,
23:20SPEAKERnot raw speed, but way, way more raw speed, right?
23:23SPEAKER- Yeah, so you could run everything at 10 AP or 1440P
23:27SPEAKERinstead of the 720P upscaled
23:29SPEAKERthat most of the consoles were rendering at that time.
23:31SPEAKER- Yeah, like in fact, yes,
23:32SPEAKERfamously the Xbox One was turning out
23:34SPEAKERquite a few 720P games at that time.
23:37SPEAKERA lot of 900P on the PS4.
23:40SPEAKERAnd that turned out to be quite a long generation.
23:42SPEAKERThat was a seven year generation.
23:43SPEAKERSo if you bought even a regular 1080 or even the Ti,
23:48SPEAKERyou were set for a good number of years
23:51SPEAKERbefore the PS5 and Series X came out.
23:54SPEAKERAnd then of course we know what happened
23:55SPEAKERduring the pandemic that stretched out the longevity
23:59SPEAKERand the usefulness of the 10 cards even further.
24:01SPEAKER- Well, and the kind of upshot of all the demand increase
24:05SPEAKERbecause of mining and pandemic and all that stuff
24:07SPEAKERwas that the price of cards went,
24:10SPEAKERthe price of a top tier premium card
24:14SPEAKERreally, really went up even before we got to the point
24:18SPEAKERthat they were rebranding what would previously have been
24:21SPEAKERlike the Titan professional type cards
24:24SPEAKERas something, something, as 90 series cards, right?
24:30SPEAKERSo it was a weird time.
24:33SPEAKERAnd it was, if you had a 1080 Ti, it was nice.
24:37SPEAKER'Cause it felt like you'd bought,
24:40SPEAKERit felt like you'd bought a Lamborghini, right?
24:42SPEAKERIt felt like you'd gone out and gotten a Bugatti Veyron
24:45SPEAKERand you just slotted that thing in all two or three slots
24:49SPEAKERand you had the fastest thing that you could buy
24:51SPEAKERfor a long time.
24:52SPEAKEREven when the 2080s with the 2000 series cards came out
24:55SPEAKERa year and a half later, they were kind of underwhelming
24:59SPEAKERbecause they didn't, the 1080 Ti was so good
25:01SPEAKERthat the performance gap between a 2080 vanilla
25:04SPEAKERand the 1080 Ti was like 10 or 12%
25:07SPEAKERin anything that didn't use ray tracing.
25:09SPEAKERAnd it didn't feel like much of an upgrade.
25:11SPEAKERIt felt pretty lateral.
25:12SPEAKERIt was a little quieter, which to be clear,
25:16SPEAKERat the time the reviews mentioned,
25:17SPEAKERoh man, the 1080 Ti pretty quiet at idle,
25:20SPEAKERwhich was a new thing, still 40 decibels at full burn.
25:25SPEAKER- Also remember when the top of the line Nvidia card
25:27SPEAKERwas 699?
25:28SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
25:30SPEAKER- Well, okay, so it wasn't really the top line
25:31SPEAKER'cause the Titan cards existed then.
25:33SPEAKERNobody bought the Titan cards 'cause they were like,
25:36SPEAKERpeople viewed them as like workstation
25:37SPEAKERor, you know, enthusiast cards.
25:39SPEAKER- You didn't even need one though, that's the thing.
25:42SPEAKERIt's like the regular Ti was so adequate,
25:44SPEAKERlike you said, for everything on the market already
25:46SPEAKERthat like for all intents and purposes,
25:48SPEAKERthe 699 card was the top of the line.
25:50SPEAKER- Well, so that, I was gonna say that's the other thing
25:52SPEAKERthat happened with this is that the 1080 Ti
25:55SPEAKERpushed all of the bottlenecks away from the GPU
25:58SPEAKERfor the first time ever, as far as I can tell.
26:03SPEAKERYou know, the things that previously would bottleneck
26:06SPEAKERon fill rate or shader calculations or whatever
26:09SPEAKERwhen you're playing games, suddenly were bottlenecking
26:12SPEAKERon system memory bandwidth or CPU speed or whatever
26:17SPEAKERand it completely changed the way we had to do
26:19SPEAKERvideo card benchmarks for a bit.
26:21SPEAKERIt meant that everybody had to go out and buy 4K monitors
26:24SPEAKERto benchmark video cards when we were using 1440p
26:27SPEAKERor 1080p cards before, and it was a wild time.
26:32SPEAKER- How long did that trend of games running
26:35SPEAKERat native 4K last though, because I have to assume
26:37SPEAKERthat developers started pushing the hardware
26:39SPEAKERpretty fast after that?
26:41SPEAKERI don't remember that being a long period of time
26:43SPEAKERthat people were playing a lot of native 4K games,
26:46SPEAKERI feel like.
26:47SPEAKER- Well, it depends on what you played, right?
26:49SPEAKERKind of the kind of games you played.
26:51SPEAKER- Yeah.
26:52SPEAKER- If you were playing, like if you were okay playing games
26:54SPEAKERthat were 30 hertz games on those consoles,
26:57SPEAKERyou could play them at 4K on the 1080 for a long time.
27:03SPEAKERIf you wanted more than 30, if you wanted 60 frames a second
27:06SPEAKERinstead of 30, then you had to scoot your res down
27:10SPEAKERa little bit.
27:11SPEAKERAnd really, really, we kind of never got there,
27:16SPEAKER'cause by the time 4K monitors were more prevalent,
27:20SPEAKERwe were into the second generation,
27:22SPEAKERthe first generation of DLSS kind of a whiff,
27:24SPEAKER'cause it required training specific for each game,
27:28SPEAKERand it didn't really see wide support, and it was a mess.
27:31SPEAKERThe second gen, the more generalized version of DLSS
27:34SPEAKERthat came out with the midway, I can't remember,
27:36SPEAKERend of the 20 series or early 30 series.
27:39SPEAKER- I think that sounds about right.
27:40SPEAKER- Was a real moment, that was when 4K
27:44SPEAKERstarted becoming possible, 'cause you just set it
27:46SPEAKERto 4K performance DLSS, and all of a sudden,
27:49SPEAKERyour game ran at a crazy high frame rate,
27:52SPEAKERand also 4K-ish, so there aren't a lot of games today
27:57SPEAKERthat you run 4K native without DLSS,
27:59SPEAKERunless you're playing something old.
28:01SPEAKER- Yeah, most people don't, I mean, unless, you know,
28:04SPEAKERunless you're the type of person who is becoming
28:06SPEAKERincreasingly angry about fake frames, I don't know.
28:09SPEAKER- We don't need to talk about people being angry
28:11SPEAKERon the internet, that's a tale as old as time.
28:14SPEAKERBut yeah, the fake frames is a different conversation
28:19SPEAKERfor another day.
28:21SPEAKER- So yeah, where are we now?
28:23SPEAKERLike, we're eight years since the launch of Pascal, right?
28:27SPEAKERIt's been 2016, nine years since the launch of Pascal,
28:30SPEAKERit's 2025, I keep forgetting.
28:32SPEAKERThe 1080 Ti doesn't hang with modern $250 or $300 video cards.
28:37SPEAKER- It's to be expected.
28:38SPEAKER- It's to be expected, it's time.
28:39SPEAKER- Although, you know, like, you get into conversations
28:42SPEAKERabout how long hardware should last, and like,
28:44SPEAKERI feel like, I mean, this is a bit anecdotal,
28:45SPEAKERbut you see people talking about it out there,
28:47SPEAKERand you see quite a few people who say like,
28:48SPEAKER"Yeah, like a 10 card was my first PC card."
28:52SPEAKERLike, that's when I moved to PC gaming from consoles.
28:56SPEAKERI think that like the mid teens were like,
28:58SPEAKERfor whatever reason, like I knew a lot of people like this,
29:01SPEAKERlike Patrick Klepek, Dan Reichert,
29:03SPEAKERlike people I worked with who had been lifelong
29:05SPEAKERconsole gamers, like for whatever reason,
29:07SPEAKERthere was a huge groundswell of people moving from console
29:10SPEAKERto PC in the kind of late teens.
29:12SPEAKERAnd so I think a lot of people,
29:14SPEAKERtheir first card was a 10 card,
29:17SPEAKERand that may have, I guess the best way to put it is like,
29:21SPEAKERmaybe they didn't know how good they had it
29:22SPEAKERin terms of how long that hardware was going to last.
29:25SPEAKERAnd then there's like, they've kind of been crashing
29:27SPEAKERinto like a hard reality now that the pace,
29:30SPEAKERthe acceleration of hardware adoption
29:32SPEAKERhas sped back up again.
29:34SPEAKER- I think that's probably true.
29:35SPEAKERI think the, I think, you know, the last,
29:39SPEAKERthe lifespan of this card has been weird,
29:41SPEAKERbecause prior to this point,
29:43SPEAKERit was sometimes difficult to get new hardware,
29:45SPEAKERbut only for like a couple of months.
29:48SPEAKERAnd then, you know, the supply chain would work itself out
29:52SPEAKERand demand would go down and supplies would go up,
29:54SPEAKERyou'd start seeing sales and stuff like that.
29:56SPEAKERThe cards that came after this,
29:57SPEAKERthe 20 series and 30 series and 40 series,
30:00SPEAKERdidn't ever get discounted for all intents and purposes.
30:04SPEAKERI mean, you'd see an occasional sale or occasional bundle
30:07SPEAKERor something that was like a pretty good deal,
30:09SPEAKERbut like a 4090 was selling for more than MSRP
30:14SPEAKERused when the 50, when the five series shipped, right?
30:17SPEAKERWhich is crazy. - That's nuts.
30:19SPEAKER- I don't know if it's still, it's been six months.
30:21SPEAKER- Yeah, I would believe close to it at least,
30:23SPEAKER'cause absolutely, at least through the pandemic
30:25SPEAKERand after that was the case, if not more recently.
30:28SPEAKER- Yeah, so it's weird that it lasted this long.
30:33SPEAKERIt also is, I think you nailed it
30:35SPEAKERwhen you were talking about the generation.
30:37SPEAKERI think part of it is that the PS4 and Xbox One
30:40SPEAKERwere kind of under spec'd for 1080p.
30:44SPEAKERJust because of the timing of when they came out
30:46SPEAKERwas such that the hardware wasn't all the way there
30:50SPEAKERfor running those games at native resolutions,
30:52SPEAKERwhich is why we saw so many 720p and 960p games
30:56SPEAKERfor upscaled for those generations.
30:58SPEAKERNow, the other thing that happened at the same time
30:59SPEAKERis when you're dealing with more pixels,
31:01SPEAKERupscalers get better, right?
31:02SPEAKEREven without doing the AI stuff that happens
31:04SPEAKERwith FSR and DLSS, just multiplying the number of pixels,
31:09SPEAKERincreasing the number of pixels with Lanczos
31:11SPEAKERor whatever, one of your ancient Photoshop filters,
31:14SPEAKERis gonna look better than going from 480 to 720p
31:18SPEAKERbecause you're starting with more data.
31:20SPEAKERAnd so it wasn't as big of an impact
31:24SPEAKERuntil suddenly it was and those consoles felt chuggy
31:26SPEAKERand we saw some iffy ports and bad Unreal implementations
31:31SPEAKERon the PS4 or whatever it was.
31:33SPEAKERAnd all of a sudden, your friend that was playing Destiny
31:36SPEAKERon the 1080 Ti was running at 60 plus frames per second
31:40SPEAKERat a higher resolution and you were running,
31:43SPEAKERit was like playing on a GameCube
31:45SPEAKERand it made an easy sell, right?
31:49SPEAKER- Yep, yep.
31:49SPEAKER- At the same time, there was also a real Renaissance
31:51SPEAKERof PC games at that time.
31:53SPEAKERLike all the Battle Royale stuff happened
31:54SPEAKERand it was wildly popular. - Yes.
31:57SPEAKER- And pulled a bazillion people into the PC.
32:00SPEAKER- That's what PUBG was 2017. - 2017.
32:02SPEAKER- So it was the same year as the Ti came out then.
32:04SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, I had a 1080 that I'd bought for VR stuff
32:09SPEAKERand then we had to get a,
32:11SPEAKERlike we were doing an adult swim project
32:13SPEAKERthat Carl, that live call-in show with Carl from Aqua Teen
32:18SPEAKERand they wanted four 1080p feeds for different cameras
32:22SPEAKERso they could live mix it.
32:23SPEAKERSo I had to get, I bought a 1080 Ti
32:26SPEAKERso I could run that at that resolution
32:29SPEAKERand we built the identical machines here and there
32:33SPEAKERso that I could test stuff locally
32:35SPEAKERbefore we got to the live production.
32:38SPEAKER- You still have it?
32:39SPEAKER- Yeah, I do.
32:40SPEAKERWe did, the 1080 Ti that I bought then in,
32:43SPEAKERhold on, I opened up the Amazon page.
32:46SPEAKERI bought the 1080 Ti in July of 2017.
32:50SPEAKERIt's a Frozer, it's an MSI 1080 Ti Gaming X 11G.
32:58SPEAKERI bought it for $799, I think.
33:03SPEAKER- Okay.
33:04SPEAKER- $769 plus tax and shipping.
33:06SPEAKER- I mean, that's like what, a 10% markup roughly?
33:09SPEAKERThat's not so bad.
33:10SPEAKER- Look, it's the dual Frozer.
33:12SPEAKER- Oh right, of course.
33:12SPEAKEROf course those are, of course,
33:14SPEAKERthe Frozer commands a preview.
33:15SPEAKER- Sorry, twin Frozer six VI.
33:18SPEAKER- Great.
33:19SPEAKER- And it was a two and a half slot card.
33:22SPEAKERIt didn't fit in my external, I was super pissed
33:25SPEAKER'cause I had a Razer external dock for the-
33:29SPEAKER- Oh, like eGPU style?
33:30SPEAKER- eGPU for when I went on the road
33:33SPEAKERand it didn't fit in that thing.
33:35SPEAKERSo I almost had to send it back
33:37SPEAKERbut I couldn't find another one that I needed.
33:38SPEAKERI just ended up having to work around it.
33:40SPEAKERIt was fine.
33:41SPEAKER- Wait, did you just have to like leave the enclosure
33:43SPEAKERhanging out under-
33:43SPEAKER- I just left the enclosure off
33:44SPEAKERand had the card dangling out of the side.
33:45SPEAKERIt was really stupid.
33:46SPEAKER- Great.
33:48SPEAKER- But yeah, so, and that one,
33:52SPEAKERthe other reason I like that one is it had a DVI port.
33:54SPEAKERMost of them they'd killed the DVI port on.
33:56SPEAKER- Sure.
33:57SPEAKER- But it was the twin Frozer, two Frozers.
34:00SPEAKERIt was such a, that was such a rad card.
34:03SPEAKERIt was also very good at PUBG.
34:05SPEAKER- That might be too cold.
34:06SPEAKEROne fan was red and one fan was black, Brad.
34:10SPEAKER- I don't even know what to say to that.
34:12SPEAKER- Yeah, no, it's that cool.
34:13SPEAKERThey don't make cards like that anymore.
34:14SPEAKER- Old design choice.
34:15SPEAKER- Yeah.
34:17SPEAKER- I had a regular 1080 around this time
34:19SPEAKERand I don't think I ever appreciated
34:20SPEAKERhow much faster the TI was.
34:22SPEAKERLike I kind of always assumed,
34:24SPEAKERand I guess there had been a 980 TI, right?
34:26SPEAKER- Yeah, they'd been doing TIs for a long time.
34:28SPEAKERThey were, TI started with like GeForce 4.
34:30SPEAKER- Oh God, that's right.
34:31SPEAKEROkay, yes, no, that's right.
34:32SPEAKER- Yeah. - Yeah, you're right.
34:33SPEAKERWow, how did I total?
34:34SPEAKERWell, but I guess like the meaning had changed
34:36SPEAKERa bit over time, right?
34:37SPEAKER- Yeah, typically in the olden days,
34:40SPEAKERthe TI was a process update.
34:42SPEAKERSo they'd move that architecture to a new process node
34:47SPEAKERand you'd get lower power consumption,
34:49SPEAKERhigher performance or quieter or something out of that.
34:53SPEAKERAnd often they would do,
34:56SPEAKERI want to say often they would do
34:58SPEAKERthe next architecture's mid range cards
35:01SPEAKERon the new node first.
35:02SPEAKER- Okay.
35:03SPEAKER- To kind of test the waters
35:05SPEAKERand then they'd do the bigger,
35:06SPEAKERmore complicated die later on.
35:08SPEAKER- Sure.
35:09SPEAKER- But at this point, the TI was,
35:12SPEAKERhey, we have a bunch of these Pascal Titan dies
35:15SPEAKERand they're not all passing qual.
35:17SPEAKERSo we got to unload them somehow.
35:19SPEAKERAnd they accidentally made a card that was so good.
35:20SPEAKERIt made every other card after it,
35:23SPEAKERpiss off more and more of their enthusiast audience.
35:26SPEAKER- Right, like it was an anomaly is what I'm getting at.
35:28SPEAKER- Yeah, it's a complete freak.
35:30SPEAKER- Like I had always considered the TI to be like,
35:32SPEAKERah, you know, it's probably maybe 10% faster.
35:34SPEAKERIt's not really worth worrying about,
35:35SPEAKERbut like, I don't think I appreciated at the time
35:37SPEAKERexactly how much better this was.
35:39SPEAKER- The common wisdom was you either were on the TI
35:42SPEAKERupgrade path or you were on the mainline upgrade path
35:45SPEAKERand you didn't go from one to the next.
35:46SPEAKER- That's exactly where I ended up.
35:48SPEAKERI was on the non-TI, the regular vanilla path
35:51SPEAKERfor about four cards in a row.
35:53SPEAKERI actually, my 1080 was liberated from an office PC,
35:57SPEAKERlet's say.
35:58SPEAKER- What?
35:59SPEAKER- That was not being, it was not being used.
36:01SPEAKER- Okay, that's fine.
36:02SPEAKER- It had sat in or for several months, let's say.
36:05SPEAKERMine was an EVGA.
36:07SPEAKER- It's a fine card.
36:09SPEAKERNo Frozer though, it wasn't a Frozer.
36:11SPEAKER- Nope, nope.
36:12SPEAKER- So yeah, so that's the, that's the 1080 TI.
36:14SPEAKERI think, I think now the question is,
36:17SPEAKERis the product that changed everything here, the 1080 TI?
36:20SPEAKERIs it the 1080, is it Pascal?
36:23SPEAKER- I don't know if- - What do you think?
36:23SPEAKER- I don't know if like Pascal broadly is that remarkable.
36:28SPEAKERLike I, like for example, I was looking at the feature set
36:30SPEAKERand I was like, is the Pascal series the first one
36:32SPEAKERthat had NV ink and NV deck,
36:34SPEAKERthe hardware video acceleration?
36:36SPEAKER- I think it, oh no, that was nine series.
36:38SPEAKER- No, it was before that even.
36:39SPEAKERIt was like 600 cards had like a nascent version of it.
36:42SPEAKER- And the V2 one didn't come until the 20 series, right?
36:45SPEAKERSo that's what, 'cause it was unusable at first
36:47SPEAKER'cause the quality was too bad.
36:48SPEAKER- Yes, it was the, it was the Turing cards,
36:50SPEAKERthe 20 cards where it was like finally,
36:52SPEAKERthat's when you finally saw the quality tests
36:54SPEAKERthat people were doing and going like,
36:55SPEAKERoh, this is like as good as software now or close enough.
36:59SPEAKER- Yeah, Kepler-based GeForce 600 series
37:03SPEAKERwas the first NV ink, NV deck generation.
37:06SPEAKERBut anyway, the point is like,
37:09SPEAKERI can't think of a ton of like major features
37:11SPEAKERthat the 10 series introduced.
37:12SPEAKERLike, you know, like you said,
37:13SPEAKERit was pre-tensor core, pre-DLSS,
37:15SPEAKERit was post video encoding.
37:18SPEAKERIt was just a better and more DirectX 12 compliant card,
37:22SPEAKERright, it was just kind of faster and better dot, dot, dot.
37:26SPEAKERGenerically, I think it was maybe it really is the TI
37:29SPEAKERfor the insane amount of speed and longevity
37:31SPEAKERfor the price that is like the king here.
37:34SPEAKER- I think it's like, for me,
37:38SPEAKERI think it's the TI because the TI was just,
37:41SPEAKERit was so good for such a, at the time,
37:45SPEAKERit felt like an expensive card,
37:46SPEAKERbut for modern standards, it's such a low price
37:50SPEAKERthat it feels like that's the right choice.
37:53SPEAKERNow, the wild card here is that the 1060
37:56SPEAKERis still the number 12th most popular card
37:59SPEAKERon Steam's hardware survey.
38:00SPEAKER- Really?
38:01SPEAKER- Yeah, it's still wildly. - That's the highest 10 card?
38:04SPEAKER- It's the only 10 card that's still in the top 20, I think.
38:07SPEAKER- Okay, my question, anybody from Valve is listening
38:09SPEAKERwho works on that site, it would be great if you numbered,
38:12SPEAKERif you numbered the--
38:13SPEAKER- But you don't like counting?
38:15SPEAKER- Hardware survey results, if possible.
38:17SPEAKERBut anyway, there's a lot of cards on this list.
38:20SPEAKERI mean, there's probably close to a hundred GPUs.
38:24SPEAKER- I think the 1050 TI might be number 20.
38:27SPEAKERI can't, like I said, there's, like you said,
38:28SPEAKERthere's no numbers, so you have to kind of eyeball it.
38:31SPEAKERThe 1600 cards are on there, but they're actually not,
38:34SPEAKERthey're not Pascal, they're--
38:36SPEAKER- They're like a cut down Turing?
38:38SPEAKER- They're cut down Turing, I believe, yeah.
38:40SPEAKER- Yeah, that sounds right.
38:41SPEAKER- 'Cause they have the NVENC2 support.
38:45SPEAKERSo they were very popular with streamers to PC,
38:49SPEAKERstreaming setups because of that.
38:51SPEAKER- Sure, now, I mean, I guess we should mention
38:53SPEAKERthe venerable, I was actually kind of shocked by this,
38:55SPEAKERthe venerable 1080 and 1080 TI on the Steam survey results
39:00SPEAKERare 0.54% and 0.4% respectively now.
39:03SPEAKERSo I kind of actually expected there would have been
39:06SPEAKERmore of those still out there.
39:07SPEAKER- That is correct, but I think the kind of people
39:10SPEAKERwho buy a 1080 TI are likely to,
39:15SPEAKERthey're likely to upgrade more often, right?
39:17SPEAKER- Yeah, sure.
39:18SPEAKERThere was a lot of conversation on message boards.
39:20SPEAKERIn fact, actually, when I searched up,
39:23SPEAKERI was searching why is 1080 TI the GOAT
39:26SPEAKERjust to see what people were saying on message boards
39:27SPEAKERand I put forum on the end.
39:29SPEAKERAnd there were a lot of conversations about this
39:31SPEAKERand it was fun 'cause when you go back in time
39:34SPEAKERon those searches, you would see people talking about
39:37SPEAKERmaking the upgrade to the 2080 TI or the 3080 TI
39:41SPEAKERand then there was a huge spike of them
39:43SPEAKERon the four series cards 'cause a lot of people
39:46SPEAKERwaited until the four series from the 1080 TI,
39:49SPEAKERwhich makes sense, like that's a five-year loop.
39:52SPEAKER- Man, a 10 card to a 40 card is one hell of an upgrade.
39:56SPEAKER- It is a pretty substantial upgrade.
39:57SPEAKERI hope you got a new monitor to go with too.
39:59SPEAKER- Yes, here's a question I have for you.
40:02SPEAKER- Yeah, what do you got?
40:03SPEAKER- Do you think, I mean, especially in light of,
40:05SPEAKERyou know, you talking about those 1080 TI USB sticks
40:08SPEAKERbeing very expensive on eBay,
40:10SPEAKERlike there's clearly some fandom around this card.
40:13SPEAKER- Oh yeah.
40:14SPEAKER- You think we see any kind of like aftermarket open source
40:16SPEAKERefforts to keep these cards going in the way
40:18SPEAKERthat you still see people trying to play games
40:19SPEAKERon Voodoo 5s and stuff like that?
40:21SPEAKERLike is this gonna be one of those like revered enough
40:24SPEAKERpieces of hardware that down the line,
40:26SPEAKERthere's still gonna be some Herculean efforts
40:28SPEAKERto keep it alive?
40:29SPEAKER- I think that this is a card that will be
40:30SPEAKERin people's retros PCs for a long time, right?
40:33SPEAKERI think when we talk about this, we always get on Full Nerd,
40:38SPEAKERwe always get a lot of comments and feedback on it.
40:42SPEAKERI think like if you wanna build a DX11 retro machine,
40:47SPEAKERthis is the card to have probably, right?
40:50SPEAKER- Yeah, and there are so many of them out there
40:51SPEAKERthat they probably will not be hard to source
40:53SPEAKERfor quite a while.
40:54SPEAKER- It's funny when we were at the flea market,
40:56SPEAKERI don't know if you were there that time,
40:57SPEAKERbut earlier this year at the electronics flea market,
41:00SPEAKERthere was somebody selling unopened new in box 1080s.
41:03SPEAKER- Yep, I was there. - 1080s, yeah.
41:05SPEAKER- I think at least one member of our party
41:07SPEAKERconsidered strongly grabbing one.
41:09SPEAKER- I was admonished when I got to PC World that next week
41:12SPEAKERfor not buying one, 'cause they were like,
41:14SPEAKERwe would love to have a new in box unopened, an ATI.
41:18SPEAKER- Would it have been named unopened at that office?
41:21SPEAKER- Probably would have opened it, used it for a video,
41:23SPEAKERbut yeah. - Okay.
41:25SPEAKER- But yeah, no, I don't know if we're gonna see that again,
41:28SPEAKER'cause the ray tracing stuff is advancing at such a fast pace
41:32SPEAKERand the machine learning stuff is advancing
41:33SPEAKERat such a fast pace.
41:35SPEAKERI don't know that we're gonna see a card
41:37SPEAKERthat lasts eight or 10 years like this again,
41:39SPEAKEReight or nine years.
41:42SPEAKER- And it's kind of a bummer,
41:43SPEAKER'cause the cards are not cheap now.
41:45SPEAKER- Oh, no they're not.
41:48SPEAKER- I was gonna say, one last note here is we have,
41:51SPEAKERif you're still running a 1080, a 10 series card,
41:53SPEAKERwhether it's a 1060 or 1080, whatever,
41:58SPEAKERI don't think you have to worry,
41:59SPEAKERI don't think you have to,
42:01SPEAKERthe world is not lit on fire to upgrade that.
42:03SPEAKERIt's not like Windows end of life-ing
42:05SPEAKERyour old Windows 10 machine in October-ish,
42:09SPEAKERwhere you won't get security updates anymore.
42:11SPEAKER- Right, and it's not like your card
42:13SPEAKERis going to stop working for new games next week,
42:15SPEAKERlike we said earlier.
42:17SPEAKERI would guess, I mean, you tell me,
42:18SPEAKERI would assume that cards will mostly work
42:21SPEAKERwith new games going forward for some time.
42:25SPEAKERLike, what I mean is it's probably gonna be a while
42:27SPEAKERbefore you see a game that just refuses to run
42:29SPEAKERon an old driver version on one of these cards.
42:31SPEAKER- Well...
42:32SPEAKER- In the short term, it'll be more like,
42:34SPEAKERoh, maybe the games are not functioning
42:35SPEAKERquite exactly properly.
42:37SPEAKER- I mean, anything that uses ray tracing
42:39SPEAKERisn't gonna work, right?
42:40SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, of course, of course.
42:41SPEAKER- Even the Dark Ages is unplayable on the GOAT.
42:43SPEAKER- Yeah, that's already coming to pass.
42:46SPEAKER- I think we're gonna see more ray tracing games,
42:48SPEAKERmore games that require ray tracing.
42:50SPEAKER- That is absolutely true.
42:51SPEAKERI'm talking like two weeks after they drop support for this,
42:54SPEAKERnot a year or two later, because you're right, absolutely.
42:57SPEAKERGames are going to start requiring
42:58SPEAKERray tracing hardware very quickly.
43:00SPEAKER- Yeah, I think whether this is gonna continue to work for you
43:03SPEAKERdepends on what kind of gamer you are, right?
43:05SPEAKERLike, if you're still playing WoW,
43:07SPEAKERit's gonna be a long time before WoW
43:08SPEAKERdeprecates support for a 1080.
43:10SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, I'm at newer games,
43:12SPEAKERlike new games that are just coming on the market.
43:14SPEAKERIf they are raster only,
43:15SPEAKERlike setting aside specific requirements like ray tracing,
43:19SPEAKERlike I guess you've probably got another year or two
43:21SPEAKERat least before you start running into trouble.
43:23SPEAKER- Hi.
43:23SPEAKER- Maybe that's optimistic.
43:25SPEAKER- Yeah, looking at the performance numbers
43:27SPEAKERfor the testing that PC World did on the 1080
43:33SPEAKERlast January or December when the 580 came out,
43:36SPEAKERI would not play current releases on the 1080
43:41SPEAKERat 1080p, I don't think.
43:43SPEAKER- All right, that's fair.
43:44SPEAKER- I think if you're playing Counter-Strike,
43:46SPEAKERif you're playing WoW, if you're playing Diablo III,
43:51SPEAKERlike if you're playing older games, go nuts, you're fine.
43:53SPEAKERDon't worry about it.
43:55SPEAKERIf you are the kind of person who plays new releases
43:57SPEAKERwhen they come out, it's gonna be a limitation.
43:59SPEAKERThe good news is for the first time in like six years,
44:03SPEAKERthere's relatively inexpensive alternatives
44:05SPEAKERthat are going to give you a good experience.
44:08SPEAKER- Particularly at the type of resolution
44:10SPEAKERthat you're probably already playing games on a 1080 at.
44:13SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah, I mean, honestly,
44:16SPEAKERboth of the radions that are out right now,
44:18SPEAKERthe 9060 and 9070 are great at 1080p
44:21SPEAKERand pretty good at 1440p for most stuff,
44:24SPEAKERespecially the kind of games
44:25SPEAKERthat you're probably playing on your 1080.
44:28SPEAKERAnd if you can get them at MSRP,
44:30SPEAKERwhich we're starting to see now finally,
44:31SPEAKERthen you should absolutely,
44:32SPEAKERif you're looking for an upgrade, they're a good choice.
44:34SPEAKERAnd that is, sorry, I'm just checking really quick,
44:37SPEAKERor like a 9060 is?
44:39SPEAKER- So there's a 9060 8 gigs, avoid the 8 gig card.
44:43SPEAKER- Sure.
44:43SPEAKER- And the XTs are slightly clocked up basically.
44:46SPEAKERSo it's basically like a $50 bump
44:49SPEAKERfrom the 9060 8 gig to the 9060 16 gig,
44:53SPEAKERand then another 50 bucks, I think, to the XT.
44:56SPEAKERAnd I don't remember where it starts, unfortunately.
44:58SPEAKERMaybe 350?
45:00SPEAKER- I'm slogging through.
45:01SPEAKERThere are so many results on like Amazon
45:02SPEAKERand places like that.
45:03SPEAKERI don't know who to trust as an actual MSRP.
45:05SPEAKER- This is where I go to TechPowerUp.
45:07SPEAKER- Yes, TechPowerUp is an excellent site.
45:09SPEAKERShout out to them.
45:10SPEAKERLike I consistently find information on TechPowerUp
45:13SPEAKERthat I can't find on other hardware sites.
45:15SPEAKER- So the 9060 XT launched at 349 bucks,
45:21SPEAKERwhich is the souped up version.
45:22SPEAKER- All right.
45:23SPEAKERI mean, that's half,
45:25SPEAKERthat's literally half of what the TI costs.
45:28SPEAKER- Less than that if you count inflation too,
45:30SPEAKERfor what it's worth.
45:31SPEAKER- Yeah, so like that's pretty encouraging
45:34SPEAKERthat things have ended up in a place like that.
45:36SPEAKER- Yeah, so I mean, it has been almost 10 years, but.
45:39SPEAKER- Well, but like you said,
45:40SPEAKERthese options didn't even exist
45:41SPEAKERthree, four or five years ago.
45:43SPEAKER- Yeah, and the nice thing is it's a small card.
45:45SPEAKERYou want to kind of upgrade your power supply for it.
45:47SPEAKERIt's I think a single eight pin power connector even.
45:50SPEAKERSo you're probably pretty good.
45:52SPEAKERIf you want to spend less than that,
45:54SPEAKERthe Battlemage cards, the B580s,
45:56SPEAKERare generally available for 300 bucks now,
45:59SPEAKERand they're quite good.
46:00SPEAKERYou can, I think the Intel version launched at 250,
46:04SPEAKERbut I don't know that you can find those at this point,
46:07SPEAKER'cause they went pretty fast.
46:08SPEAKER- Yeah, and now those do need a pretty beefy CPU
46:11SPEAKERby comparison, right, to really shine.
46:14SPEAKER- You need something that supports rebar.
46:16SPEAKERSo if you don't have a rebar,
46:18SPEAKERand probably you need that for the 9060 as well.
46:21SPEAKERWe haven't actually tested that.
46:23SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, I guess that's just inherent
46:25SPEAKERto the way PCs are, right?
46:26SPEAKERLike if you're looking to put one of these new cards
46:29SPEAKERin a let's say eight year old CPU and motherboard,
46:32SPEAKERlike there are just gonna be bottlenecks
46:33SPEAKERyou're gonna run into.
46:34SPEAKER- That's exactly it.
46:35SPEAKERThe thing I'll say about the Intel thing,
46:37SPEAKERthere was a couple of big news stories
46:38SPEAKERabout that earlier this year,
46:39SPEAKERabout Intel underperforming on like,
46:42SPEAKERnine series Intel CPUs and older.
46:47SPEAKERMy understanding is that they've worked some of that out.
46:49SPEAKERI haven't actually tested it, so I don't know,
46:51SPEAKERbut I have seen people talking about those issues
46:54SPEAKERas though they are resolved or more resolved.
46:58SPEAKERLike you said, there's always gonna be bottlenecks,
47:00SPEAKERespecially when talking about older hardware.
47:03SPEAKERThe other thing I'll say is that you can get like,
47:06SPEAKERa 7800 and a Zen 5 board for another 300 bucks at this point
47:10SPEAKERor 400 bucks at this point.
47:11SPEAKERSo like, you know, maybe if you're upgrading one,
47:14SPEAKERconsider upgrading everything, but-
47:16SPEAKER- Hey look, like good modestly priced PC hardware
47:19SPEAKERis kind of making a comeback.
47:20SPEAKER- It's pretty exciting that we're back in a place
47:23SPEAKERwhere that exists.
47:24SPEAKER- Yeah, for sure.
47:25SPEAKER- And then the last thing I'll say is,
47:26SPEAKERregardless of what you buy,
47:28SPEAKERif you want your card to last for eight years,
47:30SPEAKERagain, don't buy an eight gig card.
47:35SPEAKERI don't think the card's gonna last
47:36SPEAKERfor eight years ever again,
47:37SPEAKERbut the eight gig cards are gonna limit you really quickly
47:41SPEAKERbased on the increasing memory consumption
47:43SPEAKERon especially ray tracing titles.
47:45SPEAKERThey, like Indiana Jones uses a buttload of memory
47:49SPEAKERand like, I don't see that trend reversing, so.
47:53SPEAKER- It's a shame there aren't more options.
47:54SPEAKERI mean, I know that like managing multiple skews
47:56SPEAKERof the same GPU in the retail channel
47:58SPEAKERis kind of a pain probably,
48:00SPEAKERbut like it's a shame there are not
48:02SPEAKERor stratified memory options on a given card
48:06SPEAKERfor people who want, you know,
48:08SPEAKERlike you might want a low,
48:09SPEAKERyou might only play a 1080p or 1440,
48:11SPEAKERbut you might want like,
48:11SPEAKERlike what if I could get 16 gig on that card?
48:14SPEAKERThat would be helpful.
48:15SPEAKER- I think, so for me, it's kind of unfortunate that,
48:20SPEAKERI think actually we're a little too stratified
48:21SPEAKER'cause if you look at it, we have like on the AMD side,
48:23SPEAKERwe have 9060, 9060 XT, two 9060, sorry,
48:28SPEAKER9060 eight gig, 9060 16 gig, 9060 XT 16,
48:32SPEAKER9070 XT, 9070 XT, now.
48:37SPEAKER- Those aren't exactly the options that I was asking.
48:39SPEAKER- Yeah, and that's every 50 bucks, basically.
48:41SPEAKER- That's, you know, that's not the worst thing.
48:44SPEAKER- I think it's really confusing though for people
48:46SPEAKERand in a way, the old, hey, we have four skews,
48:51SPEAKERtwo cheap ones and two expensive ones was kind of nice.
48:54SPEAKER- Sure, I guess what I'm talking about
48:56SPEAKERis the Nvidia attack of if you want,
48:59SPEAKERhey, if you want the amount of memory you actually need,
49:01SPEAKERyou should, you're gonna have to trade up to the next GPU
49:03SPEAKERthat's two to $300 more
49:05SPEAKERthat you kind of maybe don't actually want.
49:07SPEAKER- I mean, and that is a problem.
49:09SPEAKERLike the 5060 and 5050 reviews have been really bad.
49:13SPEAKERThose are their 250 and $300 ish cards.
49:17SPEAKERTo get 16 gigs, I think you have to do a 5060 Ti
49:20SPEAKERas the lowest end card that'll do that.
49:23SPEAKERAnd in this generation,
49:24SPEAKERthe TIs don't mean mid-cycle refreshes.
49:27SPEAKERThey're just the in-between price skews
49:31SPEAKERwith different memory configurations
49:32SPEAKERor higher clock speeds or something like that.
49:37SPEAKERIt's unfortunate 'cause the AMD GPUs are good enough
49:42SPEAKERthat I wish that they actually had higher price skews
49:45SPEAKERcompeting more in the 5070 and 5080 range.
49:50SPEAKER- Yes, honestly, I looked at when the 9070 XT came out
49:55SPEAKERand I've been dabbling, it's been a while,
49:57SPEAKERit's been a few months since this project
49:59SPEAKERhas been put on hold,
49:59SPEAKERbut I was dabbling with desktop Linux enough
50:02SPEAKERthat I was like, man, if I could just get slightly closer
50:04SPEAKERto maybe 5080 equivalent performance
50:08SPEAKERout of one of these AMD cards,
50:09SPEAKERI might actually switch now
50:10SPEAKERjust for the better Linux compatibility.
50:14SPEAKERBut it's not there, that performance isn't quite there.
50:16SPEAKER- Well, and the same thing on the Intel side,
50:18SPEAKERI wish that they had a $400 priced card
50:20SPEAKERthat had commensurate increase in performance.
50:22SPEAKERI think they don't because the next gen of that GPU
50:26SPEAKERis coming sooner rather than later
50:29SPEAKERis what the rumors seem to imply,
50:31SPEAKERbut not to get off on a tangent,
50:34SPEAKERbut for people who haven't been paying attention,
50:36SPEAKERthe big thing on the current generation,
50:38SPEAKERthe nine series of AMD cards
50:41SPEAKERis that they added dedicated units
50:45SPEAKERto do the machine learning, acceleration,
50:46SPEAKERtensor core kind of math
50:48SPEAKERthat Nvidia has had since the 20 series cards.
50:53SPEAKERSo when you run your AI upscaling or AI frame gen now,
50:57SPEAKERit's not taking performance from the shader model,
51:00SPEAKERshader units on the cards,
51:02SPEAKERit actually has a dedicated hardware.
51:03SPEAKERSo you're not like doing trade off math on that.
51:06SPEAKERAnd the performance is really good as a result.
51:08SPEAKERSo anyway, so that's it, 1080i, I guess.
51:13SPEAKERWelcome to the club.
51:14SPEAKER- It was a heck of a card.
51:15SPEAKER- Real quick, one last thing I wanted to fill in here.
51:17SPEAKERWe started to touch on this when you were talking about
51:19SPEAKERif you do want to keep one of these cards in service
51:21SPEAKERafter these drivers are deprecated.
51:23SPEAKER- Yeah.
51:24SPEAKER- Is there such a thing as security vulnerabilities
51:26SPEAKERand graphics drivers?
51:28SPEAKERI mean, I know anything can have security vulnerabilities,
51:30SPEAKERbut is that like a-
51:31SPEAKER- It's unusual.
51:32SPEAKER- Is that a common thing that is actually exploited?
51:34SPEAKERLike it's much more that you're just probably sacrificing
51:38SPEAKERgame compatibility and eventually losing support for that.
51:40SPEAKERIt's not like, I think you touched on this earlier,
51:43SPEAKERlike you don't need to worry about the integrity
51:45SPEAKERof your system tomorrow once the drivers
51:48SPEAKERstop being updated.
51:50SPEAKER- The surface area on these 10 series cards
51:52SPEAKERis such that if there are vulnerabilities,
51:55SPEAKERwe'll find out about them shortly
51:56SPEAKERafter they stop updating the drivers.
51:58SPEAKER- Okay, yeah, fair.
52:00SPEAKER- I'm not gonna say that it's not a problem,
52:02SPEAKERbut it's probably fine.
52:04SPEAKER- Yeah, but again, I think you mentioned this.
52:06SPEAKERIt's not like your operating system losing support,
52:08SPEAKERwhich is definitely a five alarm you need to update.
52:11SPEAKER- Yeah, it's not like if you're on an OS
52:16SPEAKERthat's not supported by Chrome anymore,
52:18SPEAKERyou gotta update your OS 'cause then your Chrome is,
52:20SPEAKERlike there's a zero day drive-by exploit
52:23SPEAKERon Chrome right now.
52:25SPEAKERSo, you know, like if you're on an old version of Chrome,
52:28SPEAKERthat's a real problem, right?
52:30SPEAKERWith this, we're fine.
52:32SPEAKER- Yes.
52:33SPEAKER- So yeah, I wouldn't worry about it too much,
52:34SPEAKERbut it is a concern.
52:36SPEAKER- Okay, you know what I am worried about?
52:37SPEAKER- What are you worried about, Brad?
52:38SPEAKER- Is the image that you put in my head
52:40SPEAKERof retro PCs being built with 1080 Ti's in them?
52:44SPEAKER- Look, it's if you wanna play your PhysX hardware
52:48SPEAKERaccelerated machines, you put the 1080 Ti in there,
52:51SPEAKERyou can play all the Batman Arkham Asylum you want.
52:53SPEAKER- That's right, Borderlands 2.
52:55SPEAKER- Yeah, PhysX capes, you get the hair.
52:57SPEAKER- I just, I mean, how far out are we
52:59SPEAKERfrom these being legitimate retro cards?
53:02SPEAKERI think they're another 10 years, maybe?
53:03SPEAKER- No. - 12.
53:04SPEAKER- They're end of life now, man.
53:06SPEAKER- Well, I know, but I mean, okay,
53:08SPEAKERI know I don't need to start a semantic debate
53:10SPEAKERabout what qualifies as retro here.
53:13SPEAKERI like to think that multiple decades are required,
53:15SPEAKERlike a minimum of 20 years.
53:18SPEAKER- Let's see, you're closer to the launch
53:21SPEAKERof Super Mario Sunshine, the 1080 Ti is closer
53:26SPEAKERto the launch of Super Mario Sunshine than it is to today.
53:30SPEAKER- Wait, that can't be right.
53:31SPEAKER- That's not right, that's not true.
53:32SPEAKER- Mario Sunshine was Mario Galaxy, maybe?
53:34SPEAKER- Mario Galaxy, yeah.
53:35SPEAKER- I think, I believe the 1080 Ti is roughly equidistance.
53:38SPEAKERWhat is the--
53:39SPEAKER- What is the launch?
53:40SPEAKER- What is the temporal version?
53:40SPEAKERIs there a term similar to equidistance,
53:43SPEAKERbut for time rather than physical space?
53:45SPEAKER- Chrono, chrono, chrono, synocris, synocris?
53:49SPEAKERChrono, how do you say that?
53:51SPEAKERI don't know how to say that.
53:53SPEAKER- Somebody listening to this podcast
53:54SPEAKERwill have a legitimate answer to that question.
53:56SPEAKER- People are screaming at their radios right now.
53:58SPEAKER- 1080 Ti, I think it might actually be roughly equidistant
54:01SPEAKERbetween Mario Galaxy and now.
54:05SPEAKER- Why don't we have a re-release of Mario?
54:07SPEAKERWhy can't I play Mario Galaxy on my Switch too?
54:08SPEAKERCome on, Nintendo.
54:10SPEAKER- They'll get there.
54:10SPEAKERWait, didn't the--
54:12SPEAKER- Nope, they never released it on the Wii.
54:14SPEAKER- No, what are you noping to?
54:16SPEAKERThat Mario anniversary collection.
54:18SPEAKER- It doesn't have Galaxy.
54:19SPEAKER- Did it not have Galaxy?
54:20SPEAKERWasn't it?
54:21SPEAKERI thought it was 64 Sunshine and the first Galaxy.
54:23SPEAKER- Mario--
54:24SPEAKER- I mean, the best part is if you didn't buy that
54:25SPEAKERwhen it came out years ago, you can no longer buy it
54:27SPEAKERbecause they removed it from sale like immediately.
54:29SPEAKER- Is it Mario Brothers 35th anniversary one?
54:32SPEAKERNo.
54:33SPEAKER- I think it was the 35th.
54:34SPEAKER- Oh, hell, it does have it.
54:36SPEAKERI bought that.
54:37SPEAKERI'm a genius.
54:38SPEAKER- Yeah, no, it's got the first Galaxy in it.
54:40SPEAKER- Oh, hell yeah.
54:41SPEAKER- But not Galaxy 2.
54:42SPEAKER- So my daughter loves, loves, loves, loves
54:46SPEAKERMario 3D World and she's never played Galaxy
54:49SPEAKER'cause the Wii wasn't a thing that she would have touched.
54:52SPEAKER- Sorry, Super Mario 3D All-Stars is the actual name of that.
54:56SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm glad I bought that.
54:56SPEAKERThat was a good call on my part.
54:59SPEAKER- Yeah, 'cause it was only on sale for like six months.
55:01SPEAKER- It has Sunshine too.
55:02SPEAKER- Yep, sure does.
55:03SPEAKER- You can't play Super Mario Brothers 35 anymore, can you?
55:06SPEAKER- I think they shut that down, if I'm not mistaken.
55:09SPEAKERYes, they did actually like four years ago.
55:11SPEAKER- Man, that was so much fun.
55:12SPEAKER- Yeah, it was all right, it was cool.
55:14SPEAKER- You know what else is fun?
55:15SPEAKERSupporting your favorite podcasts.
55:17SPEAKER- That's right.
55:17SPEAKER- It's both satisfying and thrilling.
55:20SPEAKER- And edifying, they would not exist without you.
55:22SPEAKER- No.
55:23SPEAKER- Or at least this one would.
55:24SPEAKER- Yeah, 'cause we're listener supported.
55:25SPEAKERThat means without you, the listener,
55:26SPEAKERwe would not be here every week talking about
55:30SPEAKERwhy old video cards are the best
55:32SPEAKERand maybe perhaps, you know,
55:36SPEAKERAugust is just around the corner
55:38SPEAKERand it's 30 years since Windows 95 came out.
55:42SPEAKERSo it might be-
55:45SPEAKER- I thought you were about to say
55:46SPEAKERit's 30 years since we started this podcast,
55:48SPEAKER'cause that is roughly around the time of year
55:50SPEAKERthat this podcast also launched.
55:52SPEAKER- It has not been 30 years since.
55:53SPEAKERThe podcast did not exist 30 years ago, Brad.
55:55SPEAKERWe're safe on that front for another decade.
55:58SPEAKER- Tell that to Adam Curry.
55:59SPEAKER- He's still out there, man.
56:00SPEAKERHe's still keeping it real in the same Adam Curry way.
56:04SPEAKER- Yeah.
56:05SPEAKER- Maybe less real than we would like.
56:07SPEAKER- I think he may have gotten a little unhinged, actually.
56:09SPEAKER- I mean-
56:10SPEAKER- Is my understanding, but then again,
56:11SPEAKERa lot of people have gotten unhinged in the last few years.
56:13SPEAKER- A lot of that going around.
56:14SPEAKERGen X has had a rough time there.
56:17SPEAKER- Can I just blow my horn for a second here?
56:19SPEAKER- Yeah, please.
56:20SPEAKER- We were talking before this podcast
56:22SPEAKERabout how old Windows 95 was and I was just like,
56:24SPEAKERoh, you know, Windows 95 is gonna be 30 years old this year.
56:28SPEAKER- Uh-huh.
56:28SPEAKER- And the least date for Windows 95
56:30SPEAKERcame right off the dome, August 24th.
56:33SPEAKER- I thought it was the 25th.
56:34SPEAKER- August 24th, 1995.
56:35SPEAKER- Wow.
56:36SPEAKER- I did not know that was rattling around up there,
56:38SPEAKERbut that's this podcast.
56:39SPEAKER- That's, I mean, that's why you're here, Brad.
56:41SPEAKER- That's right.
56:42SPEAKER- Yep, important dates etched forever in your memory.
56:45SPEAKERYou remember when the Battle of Hastings was?
56:47SPEAKER- Nope.
56:48SPEAKER- Yep, perfect.
56:49SPEAKER- I don't even know what war that was from.
56:50SPEAKER- Doing it right.
56:52SPEAKERSo yeah, we wouldn't be here without you all, the listeners.
56:54SPEAKERIf you would like to support the show,
56:55SPEAKERyou can, for five bucks a month,
56:57SPEAKERyou can go to patreon.com/techpod.
56:59SPEAKERAgain, that's patreon.com/techpod,
57:02SPEAKERwhere you can sign up and you get access
57:05SPEAKERto the fabulous TechPod Discord
57:06SPEAKERand our monthly Patreon episodes, patron episodes,
57:10SPEAKERwhere this last one, man, it was like 90 degrees
57:12SPEAKERin my office, I don't remember what we talked about,
57:14SPEAKERbut people seem to like it, so you're missing out.
57:16SPEAKER- Yeah, that one got real rambling,
57:18SPEAKERbut people seem to be okay with it.
57:19SPEAKER- Yeah, exactly.
57:20SPEAKER- I found the blog posts with the,
57:24SPEAKERI think I called him a Microsoft engineer in the podcast,
57:27SPEAKERbut Raymond Chen.
57:29SPEAKER- Oh yeah, yeah.
57:30SPEAKER- I'm not sure if he was an actual engineer
57:31SPEAKERor what his role was on Windows product guy or something.
57:34SPEAKER- Channel nine guy or something, right?
57:36SPEAKERHe's the one running Microsoft blog poster.
57:38SPEAKER- Right, yeah, so in fact, he is still,
57:40SPEAKERat the time of this recording,
57:41SPEAKERhis most recent blog post was yesterday,
57:43SPEAKERbut the one I was thinking about,
57:44SPEAKERthe one about the system tray I was thinking about
57:46SPEAKERwas from 2003.
57:48SPEAKERSo he's been blogging almost every day
57:50SPEAKERfor like 20 something years.
57:51SPEAKERAnyway, I found that blog post
57:53SPEAKERand put it in the patron episode thread on the discord
57:55SPEAKERwhere he is like incredibly indignant
57:58SPEAKERabout the idea of calling the clock area
58:00SPEAKERin Windows the system tray.
58:02SPEAKER- You mean the taskbar notification area?
58:04SPEAKER- Yes, he's really unhappy about the fact
58:06SPEAKERthat that name caught on, but anyway.
58:08SPEAKER- I mean, it's a tray and it's in the system area.
58:11SPEAKEROf course it's gonna, anyway,
58:12SPEAKERwe don't need to get into that.
58:14SPEAKEROur deep dive retrospective
58:15SPEAKERinto the history of the system tray coming soon.
58:18SPEAKER- That's right.
58:18SPEAKER- But until then, we want to thank our executive producer
58:22SPEAKERtier patrons, including Jason Lee,
58:24SPEAKERAndrew Slosky, Jordan Lippett,
58:26SPEAKERwaypoint.bunnycrimes.com,
58:29SPEAKERTwinkle Twink, Twinkle Twinkie,
58:31SPEAKERDavid Allen, James Kamik,
58:32SPEAKERand Pantheon, makers of the HS3 high-speed 3D printer.
58:36SPEAKERI assume waypoint.bunnycrimes.com points to remap,
58:39SPEAKERbut I don't know for sure.
58:40SPEAKER- Probably, I can verify that presently
58:42SPEAKERif you would like me to check.
58:44SPEAKER- Yeah, check that out.
58:45SPEAKERAnd while you're doing that,
58:46SPEAKERI'm gonna thank our listeners one more time
58:48SPEAKERfor supporting the show and for listening every week.
58:49SPEAKERPlease leave a review on iTunes or wherever
58:51SPEAKERyour podcasts are gotten.
58:54SPEAKERAnd we will be back next week with another edition
58:57SPEAKERof the TechPod.
58:58SPEAKERBrad, is it--
58:59SPEAKER- It does point to remap.
59:00SPEAKERWow, thank you to our patrons.
59:02SPEAKER- Thanks, patrons.
59:04SPEAKERAnd we will be back next week with another edition
59:05SPEAKERof the TechPod.
59:06SPEAKERThanks for listening, everybody.
59:07SPEAKERAnd as always, please consider the environment
59:09SPEAKERbefore printing this podcast.