200: Bump to Squirt

00:00SPEAKEROkay. I opened the project for this episode and I typed E200-Brad-local.

00:06SPEAKERWait, you put E? I guess you do put E in front. That's why I'm alphabetically first.

00:10SPEAKERI started putting E at the very beginning when we thought there might be S's.

00:14SPEAKERBy S I mean season. We were like, "Hey, what if we do it again?"

00:17SPEAKERYeah, we'll do a hiatus every once in a while and just call it a new season. That sounds great.

00:21SPEAKERSo someday we'll be on like season three. We'll never get to episode 200 because those are good.

00:24SPEAKERThe E's are going to reset when the S's roll over. And then we ended up never doing seasons.

00:29SPEAKERAnd now here we are, 200 episodes.

00:31SPEAKERWell, I think we have to do seasons when we get to episode 1,000.

00:37SPEAKERBecause if we go to four digits, then it's going to mess up our ordering will be bad.

00:43SPEAKERI already ran this exercise once when I had to go add an extra leading zero to

00:47SPEAKERepisode numbers to get them to sort correctly.

00:49SPEAKERYeah, we should have done this at 100 in retrospect.

00:52SPEAKERWell, welcome to the end of season two. Brad and Will Made a Tech Bot. I'm Will.

00:56SPEAKERTune in next week for episode one.

00:58SPEAKERYeah. So we're going to do something on the patron episode this month for the 200th episode.

01:04SPEAKERWe're not going to do a musical episode or anything. I did that once. It was a bad idea.

01:08SPEAKERYeah. I thought about doing some kind of retrospective episode this week,

01:11SPEAKERbut that maybe seemed a little navel-gazey.

01:15SPEAKERYeah. And also there was kind of a lot of stuff that happened this week. So we're going to do

01:20SPEAKERthis week. Well, we'll talk about that in a minute, but I can't believe it's been four years.

01:24SPEAKERThat's dude. What happened? Well, I think the pandemic happened actually. That's what it is.

01:29SPEAKERLike I started to say like, how the hell has it been four years? But then it's crazy to think

01:33SPEAKERback. I think it was August, 2019. I believe it was August, August, September. So like it's crazy

01:38SPEAKERto think that we got maybe half a year into this podcast at most before the pandemic happened and

01:43SPEAKEReverything since has been worked from home. So it kind of warped time in that respect.

01:48SPEAKERYeah. Cause we talked about this for a long time. Like we talked about this when I used to come on

01:52SPEAKERthe bomb cast and we would talk about nerd tech stuff and everybody else in the room would kind

01:57SPEAKERof glaze over and then would take a nap for a little bit. And then like the audience,

02:02SPEAKERlike people would send us Twitter messages or sorry, tens and post comments. Be like,

02:06SPEAKERHey, I really love it when Brad will talk about tech stuff. And I can't, I'm sorry. I know,

02:12SPEAKERI know you paused cause I'm making a face. I can't let tens go unremarked upon. Yeah. You know,

02:17SPEAKERthe website formerly known as Twitter 10. Yes. Well, you're posting tens, you're tanning, you're

02:22SPEAKERretanning. Some people call that a 20 operating system 10. Yes. Yeah. No, it's OSX, Brad. Oh,

02:28SPEAKERfine. Fine. Anyway, as you were saying. So, so yeah, like we talked about it for a long time.

02:33SPEAKERWe talked about it for like years, I think really for if we're, if we're being factual and honest.

02:40SPEAKERYeah. So I was always excited every time you came on the bomb cast. Cause I was like, man,

02:42SPEAKERthis is, this is the week I get to talk about graphics cards for 20 minutes.

02:46SPEAKERWell, yeah. And then, and then we we took a while cause I, cause neither of us wanted to do a news

02:51SPEAKERpodcast, really like another news podcast. Cause I think at that point we were both doing, I mean,

02:57SPEAKERyou were doing bomb cast still. And I was, I was regularly on, this is only a test, which is

03:02SPEAKERabout news. And it kind of took us a while to get the, to the idea of just doing a single,

03:09SPEAKERsingle serving single topic to kind of dig a little deeper. And we've, we've, we've,

03:13SPEAKERwe've wandered here to, and from that over the four years in between, but

03:19SPEAKERit's still usually a single topic unless we get buck wild to our best effort. Anyway,

03:24SPEAKERthanks everybody for sticking with us this long. We're doing exactly the thing we said we were

03:28SPEAKERgoing to do. We're retrospecting right now. Well, I think, I think on the Patriot episode,

03:32SPEAKERwe're going to dig in and like, I want to talk about like favorite episodes. I'd love to hear

03:35SPEAKERcomments from people who hear this and are like, Oh, I have favorite episodes. Like for me,

03:40SPEAKERthere were like when we had Kishore on at the start of the pandemic to explain the Rona to us.

03:45SPEAKERAnd when we had lost power for a week because of fires and built, you know, 72 hour plus kits and

03:53SPEAKERlike talking about the refresh, why the refresh rates are 60 Hertz in North America is like

03:59SPEAKERfiguring that it's just been, well, there's been, anyway, I have high points and we'll think about,

04:03SPEAKERwe'll do a Patriot episode about that, but I guess now we should just probably start the show, right?

04:07SPEAKERLet's podcast. (upbeat music)

04:37SPEAKERWelcome to Brad and Will Beta Tech Pod. I'm Will.

04:39SPEAKERI'm Brad.

04:40SPEAKERBrad, you should end every cold open with let's podcast.

04:43SPEAKERLet's podcast. Is that my catchphrase?

04:46SPEAKERYeah, that's it. We didn't just know Brad soundboard let's podcast.

04:50SPEAKERIt's only taken 17 years of podcasting. I think this is when I first was on a podcast in 2006 to

04:57SPEAKERcome up with a catchphrase. Good job. You're doing better than me. I still don't have one.

05:02SPEAKERGood night and good luck.

05:03SPEAKERThere you go. Never been used before.

05:06SPEAKERI've never heard that one before. Everybody under the age of a hundred will not know that one. So

05:10SPEAKERwe're probably good. Actually. Yeah. People were aging out of these references. We can just steal

05:15SPEAKERthem and nobody will know. Yeah. Next I'm going to talk about pitching. Woo. We're going to tie

05:19SPEAKERan onion to our belts. We can get all of the, all of the twenties references are coming back. I'm

05:23SPEAKERgonna start wearing high-waisted pants with pleats, pegged cuffs, all that stuff. Spats.

05:31SPEAKERThis week. So we don't do a lot of new stuff, but it is, it is new iPhone week. They announced

05:37SPEAKERnew iPhones this week. They're kind of underwhelming and also unity went buck wild

05:42SPEAKERthis week. So I think we should start with the unity stuff. Cause it's kind of the big news.

05:46SPEAKERWe were, we were kind of, we're kind of on an excellent or break this week,

05:50SPEAKERbut I was still looking at Twitter and trying to keep up with new stuff. And Oh my God,

05:53SPEAKERlike I have never seen game developer, Twitter, this United and this furious and this like

05:59SPEAKERintensely discussing anything as I have this. Yeah. So the, the basic deal is that unity changed

06:05SPEAKERthe terms of their agreement. And it seems like, it seems like they're changing it in a way that it

06:10SPEAKERdoesn't just affect games that aren't signed. So, so we should step back the way game engines work

06:16SPEAKERright now is like, if you want to make an unreal game, you can download unreal. You can sign up to

06:22SPEAKERbe a developer for free or like 90 bucks or something. It's basically not very much money.

06:26SPEAKERYou get the engine, you can make your game. And then at some point when you're like, Oh,

06:30SPEAKERI think I might actually sell this for money. You, you theoretically should, you don't have

06:34SPEAKERto do this, but you should, you should call somebody at unreal and be like, Hey,

06:39SPEAKERI have a game that I would like to ship. And I would like to talk to you about the terms of my

06:42SPEAKERdeal. And then you can kind of negotiate a little bit with them, depending on who you are and how

06:46SPEAKERbig your game is and whether they like you, I guess, I don't know about like the specifics of

06:51SPEAKERhow, how like how payment works, how recoup works for the engine, all that kind of stuff. My

06:57SPEAKERassumption was that this was only going to impact stuff, unity games that hadn't yet signed a deal

07:02SPEAKERwith them, but it seems like it's going to hit everybody because unity's buck wild now. And

07:08SPEAKERthey're, they're just getting crazy up in there. It is retroactive to the beginning of time. As

07:12SPEAKERfar as I can tell, we should say what it is. Yeah. What are they doing, Brad? What's the bad thing

07:16SPEAKERthat they did? What did unity do bad? The change that they are implementing is they are going to

07:20SPEAKERstart charging developers for like per install of their game. Yeah. They're calling it, they're

07:26SPEAKERcalling it a runtime fee, which is just sounds like a way to dress that shitty concept up in

07:33SPEAKERfancy language. There's a Simpsons about calling a tax raise, a rebate adjustment, a negative rebate

07:40SPEAKERadjustment or something. Exactly. It's very much in that vein. Yeah. I mean, there, there are

07:43SPEAKERthresholds like it's, you know, they have a FAQ here. I can actually pull up the table real fast.

07:48SPEAKERIt's like a, you know, first of all, there are tiers of unity, you know, there's the, the unity

07:52SPEAKERpersonal, I believe is free, right. Or it is just a monthly basis. You still have to pay if you sell

07:57SPEAKERstuff with it. And then there's like unity pro and unity, unity enterprise, which you pay like,

08:01SPEAKERI think, per seat for. So depending on which of those tiers you're on, there are different

08:04SPEAKERthresholds, you know, like for unity personal, if you have made, okay, I'm trying to read this

08:09SPEAKERtable. If you've made $200,000 off your game in the last 12 months and you pass 200,000 installs

08:15SPEAKERlifetime, then you're going to pay 20 cents per new install thereafter. So, okay. So 200,000

08:25SPEAKERinstalls is a lot of installs in paid software terms. Like if you have a $10 game on steam,

08:31SPEAKER200,000 installs puts you well in the top 1% of probably steam, steam games. Sure. Well,

08:37SPEAKERreal quick though, are you, are you equating installs to users there? I'm I'm I am equating

08:43SPEAKERinstalls to users cause most games get installed somewhere between zero and one times. That's

08:49SPEAKERsensible. I mean, it sounds like now they have walked things back to the point that they are

08:53SPEAKERalso doing that, but initially this was just installed. They, when they first rolled this out,

08:57SPEAKERthey explicitly said, this is just installs. If one user installs the game 200,000 times,

09:03SPEAKERthat hits the threshold. It sounds like they have now walked that back. Yeah. That's that's

09:07SPEAKERa, that is, that was, that was pure insanity. The fact that they weren't that it presumably counts

09:13SPEAKERpiracy installs. The big thing is that it hits free to play installs. So if you're, if you have

09:17SPEAKERa free to play game originally, it was, it seemed like it was going to hit demos and like trials

09:23SPEAKERand stuff like that. I think they said, yeah, game pass. A couple of studios came out and said,

09:29SPEAKERHey, we have a game on game pass. Only the first 2 million downloads are going to be free. And then

09:33SPEAKERafter that you got to pay. It's, it's a really, like, it's a spectacularly stupid idea given

09:43SPEAKERhow the unity, I mean, it's great for unity, I guess, but it's a stupid idea given all the

09:48SPEAKERpeople that make games and the kind of games that get made in unity these days, which are,

09:52SPEAKERthere's a lot of mobile games and there's a lot of free to play stuff. And there's a lot of demos too,

09:56SPEAKERlike, like, like stuff that it's never even really going to come out commercially probably,

10:01SPEAKERor will be very inexpensive if it does like a $2 itch. I knew unity was big and mobile. I

10:06SPEAKERdidn't realize how big it was until this happened this week. And I, I kind of got the impression. I

10:11SPEAKERmean, I'm sure there are, you know, there are unreal games in mobile as well, of course, but

10:14SPEAKERlike, I almost got the impression unity is like kind of all the mobile games. I mean, not all of

10:18SPEAKERthem, but unity is much lighter than unreal is for mobile stuff. Like if you have a graphically

10:24SPEAKERintensive, like a racer racer or something like that, it's maybe it could be unreal,

10:28SPEAKERbut the vast majority of 2d games are either unity or some other they're not unreal based.

10:36SPEAKERIf you want to make a 2d game that eats battery, do it in unreal is my understanding.

10:44SPEAKERSo they, they announced this and then the thing I read, and I don't know if this is true or not,

10:50SPEAKERbut I'm going to say it because it's really stupid and makes unity sound stupider.

10:54SPEAKERAnd I don't like John Riccitello. It turns out is they didn't have a plan to have for how to track

11:01SPEAKERthis when they announced this. And then they had to go to the platforms and be like, Hey, Microsoft,

11:05SPEAKERHayes valve, you guys can tell us how many times these things are installed. Right. And they were,

11:10SPEAKERand they, I, my assumption is they got the finger from all the platforms.

11:13SPEAKERHang on, just to be clear, you're saying that all took place after they announced this rollout,

11:18SPEAKERbecause like one of the, one of the bullet points I wrote in these notes are what are the ways they

11:21SPEAKERcan track slash enforce this. And then I listed some that we will go through, but like, I assumed

11:26SPEAKERat least on the backend, they knew how they were going to try to, are you actually saying,

11:30SPEAKERI've seen the story told multiple ways in multiple places, but yeah, so well, cause like they couldn't

11:37SPEAKERgo out with that early cause Microsoft was somebody would have leaked it. Sure. And I guess

11:41SPEAKERit's too explosive. It's too explosive. Yeah. What the hell man. So, okay. Should we talk through

11:46SPEAKERthat stuff then? Like I, I there, there are two ways that I assume they could approach this and

11:50SPEAKERmaybe they would use both number one, some kind of phone home mechanism built into the game client.

11:56SPEAKERYeah. Like the libraries. Yeah. The tracks, you know, installed at run time, compile time,

12:01SPEAKERyeah. Calls home to their server when a user fires up a game for the first time and, you know,

12:06SPEAKERcounts that toward your install total. And then the other one, the other one is what you just said,

12:10SPEAKERwhich was go to the platform holders and ask for download numbers from them. But it seems like,

12:16SPEAKERI mean, I would, I would assume that at least like somebody like Microsoft would probably play ball,

12:19SPEAKERbut it sounds like maybe even they wouldn't, but there's also like, there's like GOG,

12:23SPEAKERwhich is very anti DRM. There's like itch, which is very indie focused, you know,

12:27SPEAKERlike I assume Apple would probably not necessarily be down with this. Like,

12:31SPEAKERit seems like it would be hard to get compliance from all the platform holders in any,

12:34SPEAKERin the best case. I don't think any of the platform holders I have access to report downloads

12:41SPEAKERcurrently. I think they report the users and active users, meaning users who've

12:47SPEAKERinstalled the game and played it, but I don't think they report downloads.

12:51SPEAKERInteresting. So if they localize the reporting into the client with the phone home stuff,

12:55SPEAKERlike that seems ripe for just being cracked or defeated by intrepid cracker type people.

13:01SPEAKEROr worse used maliciously to generate a couple of hundred thousand installs and cost your,

13:07SPEAKERcost your people fake installs and cost your indie developer who has gone woke to go broke.

13:13SPEAKERYes. Well, that's the other end of this. Well, actually there are a lot of ends of this that are

13:17SPEAKERbad, but like the abuse, we'll get to the abusive stuff in a second, but, but I don't, I don't know,

13:23SPEAKERI don't know how effectively stuff like Denuvo is defeated these days. I think some of those

13:27SPEAKERDRM methods are pretty good. Yeah. That's, that's what I thought, but this they're also heavy,

13:33SPEAKERright? But this seems like the kind of thing people would then set their sights on defeating,

13:39SPEAKERbut then, but then maybe, maybe they don't allow the game to run. Like, I don't know,

13:42SPEAKERmaybe they'd have some way to, I don't know. Yeah. It's a, it's a weird, it's a weird choice.

13:48SPEAKERSo the fact rolled back, some of the stuff, the fact said, Hey, we're not going to count demos.

13:51SPEAKEREarly access games don't count as demos, but so they still will count towards your total.

13:56SPEAKERWe're going to, if you get, if you get somebody maliciously attacking your game,

14:01SPEAKERwe won't count those towards your total. It's like, there's a bunch of hand wavy stuff in here.

14:05SPEAKERIt seems like the fact was written. Like it seems like they expect to wave it back even further,

14:10SPEAKERbut I don't know. It's it's. Yeah. Axios, I talked to you, talked to Unity and published some,

14:19SPEAKERsome of what they said, like they, they have now told Axios that they are going to limit this to

14:23SPEAKERinitial installs per user. Yeah. Which like that's like, it's still a bad idea, but at least in that

14:31SPEAKERcontext, it's not the, the, the place, like the post-fact change, post Stephen Tetillo interview

14:41SPEAKERchanges stuff is makes it more to be like apocalyptic for mobile developers, but probably

14:47SPEAKERnot that big a deal for traditional PC and console developers. Cause they don't like the, the, the

14:53SPEAKERattach rate for revenue to install numbers for mobile games. I don't pay attention to that space

14:58SPEAKERbecause we don't work in it, but it's, it's like what, if 1% of your users give you money,

15:03SPEAKERyou've done well. Yeah. That's crazy. So like light of this policy, like what? Yeah. So,

15:08SPEAKERso if you're, if you're, if you have a game that has a million paying users, that means you have

15:15SPEAKERa hundred million, 99 million nonpaying users and you're paying 20, 20 cents for each of them.

15:23SPEAKERThat seems, that seems real. Like this whole thing seems like John Riccitello said, wait,

15:27SPEAKERwe have how many users and how many of them generate revenue for us? Well, we need to make

15:31SPEAKERthose other, like, we're not selling, we're not giving Clorox to the, to the people who aren't

15:37SPEAKERpaying for it. We like, why are all these, why are all these dead beats out on our games platform

15:42SPEAKERwhen they intentionally pushed the market toward those places over the last 20 years?

15:46SPEAKERBecause yeah, anyway, it's, it's hard, it's hard to know how much stock to put into like

15:51SPEAKERvarious theories floating around on, on Twitter. But like one thing I've seen is that, I mean,

15:56SPEAKERlike obviously Riccitello is steering the ship and deserves a lot of the blame here, but also

16:00SPEAKERsome people have been pointing to the fact that Unity went public four years ago, was it?

16:04SPEAKER2020.

16:06SPEAKERBest possible time to go public right in the middle of the pandemic.

16:09SPEAKERYes, of course. And that their board is now like rotten with a kind of Silicon

16:13SPEAKERValley venture capitalist types who are probably just pushing for monetization at any cost.

16:19SPEAKERWell, and then the other thing is the increased interest rates. Like if they were basing growth

16:23SPEAKERon having infinite free money to borrow, then suddenly the money is not free anymore.

16:29SPEAKERSo that's, that's the other thing I was going to mention is that they,

16:32SPEAKERthey acquired Weta Digital, they acquired Iron, what is the

16:36SPEAKERThey've acquired, they've acquired, they've been on a spree over the last three years.

16:40SPEAKERIron source, I believe.

16:41SPEAKERYeah, they acquired a hosting company. They've acquired a bunch of other stuff too.

16:45SPEAKERThey've spent heavily on acquisitions. Probably need to make up that shortfall as well.

16:51SPEAKERThe weird thing. So they did come out and say that the owners of sub services,

16:57SPEAKERservices like game pass would be on the hook for the games on those platforms

17:01SPEAKERwithout saying how they were actually going to do it.

17:03SPEAKERI'm sure Microsoft is thrilled about that.

17:05SPEAKERYeah. They said the games issued through charities would be exempt. Like, like they

17:13SPEAKERit's, it's a really, it's a really, it just fundamentally doesn't understand this, this,

17:21SPEAKERthis idea fundamentally doesn't understand how the games market works today in 2023, 2024.

17:27SPEAKERAbsolutely. It's crazy. Ours, ours ran a story that kind of broke down whether they legally can

17:33SPEAKERdo this. I mean, that's a really good question. I think somebody can probably best take them to

17:38SPEAKERarbitration and find out. I, you know, I don't think they, they didn't reach a definitive

17:43SPEAKERconclusion here because I don't think they're, you know, this is not a lawyer writing this

17:46SPEAKERnecessarily, but I mean, it's going to require courts to find a definitive conclusion, but there

17:50SPEAKERare, there are clauses in the terms of service over time that you, at least in Unity's view,

17:56SPEAKERallow for them to just retroactively apply these things to old games whenever.

18:00SPEAKERWell, so their terms used to explicitly say, Hey, you're bound by the version of Unity you use. So

18:06SPEAKERif you never take an engine update, you can use that, that the terms on that version of Unity

18:10SPEAKERindefinitely. And then they took that out of the GitHub and stopped tracking the TOS changes in the

18:16SPEAKERGitHub. So, so yeah, like it's, it's the thing I feel bad for more than anything is a people who

18:25SPEAKERhave games that are shipping that are suddenly going to be hit. Like I saw multiple people

18:29SPEAKERposting, Hey, here's our revenue. Here's our number of users. The moment this hits for like,

18:34SPEAKERif we, if we launched this game today and it was the same level of success, it was,

18:38SPEAKERwe would be out this much money immediately. Cause like making 20 cents of ad revenue is fairly

18:44SPEAKERchallenging on a, on a user who's not engaged. It will mean that there will be a lot less shitty,

18:50SPEAKERlike the cost of acquiring a user is going to go up a lot for, for, for mobile games,

18:56SPEAKERwhich means presumably we'll see a lot less of those shitty pull the pin to drop the

18:59SPEAKERlava on the man ads. Real quick, something I should mention, another, another factor I've seen

19:06SPEAKERcited for this potentially coming about is the changes Apple made to add tracking. Was that three,

19:12SPEAKERthree years ago? When did that happen? IOS 13 or 14, I think. Yeah. I feel like, I feel like,

19:18SPEAKERI mean, I'm sure plenty was made of it at the time, but I don't think I grasped the import

19:23SPEAKERtruly of that happening. Like I know, I know Facebook took a massive dive off it,

19:26SPEAKERlike tons of business models were. We talked about that at the time. It was it's apocalyptic.

19:31SPEAKERIt has destroyed the mobile games ad market. Whether that's actually a bad thing is maybe

19:35SPEAKERopen or is up to a personal opinion, but like the ripples, the ripples of that change seems to have

19:42SPEAKERbeen continuing like pretty strongly. I mean, I think now, look, I still think it's a good change.

19:49SPEAKERI think that it's probably one of the reasons that Google's search results have gotten bad

19:52SPEAKERit's because when you're making money on ads shown on search results, they have to aggressively much

19:58SPEAKERmore aggressively monetize those search results now. And they're paying much less attention to

20:02SPEAKERthe actual search and more to the paid content inside them. So anyway, it's the biggest change.

20:08SPEAKERI still think that's probably the biggest story in tech for this decade so far.

20:11SPEAKERYeah. Can you, can you refresh my memory? What exactly was the change at a technical level?

20:15SPEAKERYeah. Yeah. So they said you can't track on a device level across, like you can only track

20:19SPEAKERwithin basically it reduces the ability for them to smartly track and associate you with like a

20:25SPEAKERFacebook cookie or something like that. So, so they don't know, like if, if you run an ad inside

20:32SPEAKERSlay the Spire doesn't have ads, but I'm going to say Slay the Spire because I'm looking on my

20:35SPEAKERsteam page right now. If you have an ad inside Slay the Spire, Slay the ad, the person that's

20:41SPEAKERbuying the ad in that spot can't know that you also have Clash of Clans and Evony and four other

20:46SPEAKERgames installed at the same time. I see.

20:49SPEAKERYeah. So and it meant that Facebook couldn't track you unless there was a Facebook cookie on the page

20:57SPEAKERor a script or something like that. So Facebook can't know that you like, it meant that instead

21:02SPEAKERof having one unified profile for each ad network, you had a bunch of little fractured ones, which

21:06SPEAKERmeant, meant they had a much better, much less good picture of who you are at a system level.

21:12SPEAKEROkay. So, so from a user perspective, those, that was a very positive privacy focused change.

21:16SPEAKERIt was a great change. Yeah. Also it really impacted both Google and Facebook, which was

21:21SPEAKERin, in the, in the upcoming corporate wars will be the first blow between Apple and Google and

21:28SPEAKERFacebook. So I like, I feel bad for people who are making games that were planning to ship on Unity

21:37SPEAKERextremely or, or, or supporting existing games. You know, it's one thing it's, it's bad enough

21:41SPEAKERto be midstream on a new game. That's not out yet with this happening, but also to have a game out

21:46SPEAKERselling and being installed and being hit with this, like that's almost worse because you've

21:51SPEAKERalready finished the project. It's out, you know, like, yeah, it's going to change people's like,

21:56SPEAKERlike user acquisition strategy for existing titles for sure. Cause like, there's like,

22:00SPEAKERlike if you look at games, like the games that you see ads for, there's a certain expectation

22:04SPEAKERof churn, like certain number of users go out, a certain number of users come in and when you apply

22:08SPEAKERadditional costs to each of those users that come in, in addition to advertising and however you get

22:12SPEAKERthem to play the game, it's, it's, it's gonna, it's gonna fuck up a lot of businesses. If you're,

22:19SPEAKERif you're multiple years into a Unity project and you're sitting there thinking, God, what do we do

22:24SPEAKERnow? Do we switch to Godot? Do we move to Unreal? Do we ship on Unity and hope for the best? Like,

22:30SPEAKERlike it's, it's a complicated nightmare. It's, it's been interesting seeing the uptick and like

22:37SPEAKERUnity has been making a lot of unpopular moves. I think we've had like smaller versions of this

22:41SPEAKERconversation several times last week, I think. Yeah. Where like Unity will do something shitty

22:46SPEAKERand I'll see an uptick in Godot discussion. Godot is probably the most popular open source game

22:51SPEAKERengine out there just for reference. And I'll see an uptick of people, Unity developers on Twitter

22:55SPEAKERsaying like, Oh, time to switch or time to start investigating this. It's been really profound

23:00SPEAKERthis week for obvious reasons, but specifically I've seen people using the blender comparison

23:04SPEAKERwhere a bunch of people have been going like, okay, it's time for Godot to become the blender

23:08SPEAKERof game engines. Like we need something in that space or in that category to break through and

23:14SPEAKERbecome like the good open source thing that everybody relies on. Well, and it seems like

23:19SPEAKERUnity fucking up the scale is the thing that will push users. Like there's a thing that we've,

23:24SPEAKERwe saw talking to all the people we've done interviews with in the FOS pod. There's a

23:27SPEAKERcommonality that once, once there's a certain number of people contributing to a project,

23:32SPEAKERit starts to snowball at a really, assuming, assuming all like there's a bunch of backend

23:38SPEAKERwork that has to happen. Like the code has to be manageable by more than one person and like all

23:42SPEAKERsorts of stuff like that. But once you get to that point and you have users using it and contributing

23:46SPEAKERcode back up and an infrastructure to integrate that code into the engine or into the project,

23:52SPEAKERthen all of a sudden those open source projects start improving at a rate far beyond what the,

23:59SPEAKERwhat commercial products can do. So the other thing that contributes to the snowball there is

24:06SPEAKERlike, again, like we've seen with the blender example, end users become so proficient with

24:10SPEAKERthe tool that it starts becoming industry standard kind of by default, right? Like a ton of emerging

24:15SPEAKERartists now cut their teeth on blender because that's what they have access to. And so it becomes

24:20SPEAKERmuch stronger that way as well. And like OBS is I think my classic example here. Cause, cause Jim,

24:26SPEAKERJim started doing OBS in 2010 cause he wanted to stream Starcraft. And at that point, the way you

24:31SPEAKERdid streaming software was by paying for Wirecast, which was like $600. Or I think you could,

24:36SPEAKERI think XSplit was around then for 30 bucks a month or something 30 bucks a year. And

24:43SPEAKERwithin two years, OBS had become the industry standard because it was free and it opened the

24:48SPEAKERdoor for a lot more people to use it. And those people were contributed, some percentage of those

24:51SPEAKERpeople were contributing code backup because Godot is a project designed for teams that have

24:57SPEAKERprogrammers. My assumption is that people will push code changes back into the engine because

25:02SPEAKERlike one of the, like we had a bug in our game for nine months, a year that's prevented us from

25:09SPEAKERusing a DX 12 pipeline because there's a bug in the, in the VFX renderer for unreal that they

25:15SPEAKERdidn't fix until fairly recently. So, so like, you know, if we could have just gone into the

25:22SPEAKERrepository and fix that 12 months ago, we probably would have sure. Anyway, it's, it's yeah. It's an

25:28SPEAKERinteresting time for games. I, for sure. Anybody, anybody from Godot is listening to this and wants

25:33SPEAKERto come on the FOS pod. Yeah. We would love to talk to you. Please reach out. We would absolutely

25:36SPEAKERlove to do that. You all don't check your email that often. It turns out. But anyway, so that's

25:41SPEAKERit for the unity stuff. I feel bad for anybody working on unique projects. If you're thinking

25:46SPEAKERabout changing your project over, I'd love to hear from you content.town. We'd love to talk to you

25:51SPEAKERabout stuff and ask questions. I should mention, I think the most prominent example I've seen of

25:55SPEAKERthat. I think it was just last night, Friday night that the start going around mega crit, the, again,

26:00SPEAKERthe developer flight spire, which you just mentioned straight up said, Hey, we're moving

26:04SPEAKERoff of unity. We have invested multiple years into our new project. I don't think they've announced

26:08SPEAKERwhat their new game is. Slade Spire's been out for some years. They flat out said we have invested

26:14SPEAKERyears of work into our new project, which is on unity. We are getting off of unity. Like we are

26:18SPEAKERgoing to bear that pain. We are going to put in immense amounts of extra work to move to a new

26:24SPEAKERengine because there is no way you can repair the trust that you have destroyed here. Like that's,

26:28SPEAKERthat's kind of the lesson I feel like here is that I don't think there's any walking,

26:32SPEAKEReven if they came out tomorrow and said, Hey, the whole thing's done. We're not doing it anymore.

26:36SPEAKERLike I don't know that they could ever fully rebuild the trust with a lot because you know,

26:40SPEAKERwho knows what else is, what other awful policy is going to come down?

26:43SPEAKERLook, all the terms of services say that the PR the company that owns the service can change

26:48SPEAKERthe terms of service at any time. And the assumption when you sign one of those deals,

26:53SPEAKERespecially on a project that's like a multimillion dollar multi-year project is they're not going to

26:57SPEAKERdo anything as stupid as what unity just did. Right. Cause if they do like what, what unity's

27:03SPEAKERbet is, it's going to be more expensive and more of a pain in the ass to change all the projects

27:07SPEAKERthat are existing unity projects. So they'll just pay the 20 cents per install. And I think that

27:13SPEAKERthey, I think they miscalculated cause like, like honestly it's caused people who looked at Godot

27:21SPEAKERthat I know in the, in the space as a, as a hell, this is an interesting novelty to be like, Oh,

27:25SPEAKERthis may be the only way we can protect ourselves from these kinds of changes in the future.

27:29SPEAKERAnd if you want to look at the overarching trend for 2023 being man centrally owned corporate

27:38SPEAKERentities being in charge of major parts of our core, our business infrastructure maybe is bad.

27:46SPEAKERIt's almost look, it's almost like somebody at union is like, you know, we can do something

27:50SPEAKERreally stupid because no matter what we do, no matter how stupid it is, Elon Musk destroying

27:55SPEAKER10 is still going to be the biggest story of the year. So it's like the whole rest of the year from

28:00SPEAKERJanuary 1st on was a Friday news dump. Sure. And, and like Reddit got stupid. Unity gets stupid.

28:09SPEAKEREverybody's getting stupid this year. So yeah, I don't, I don't know. I, I, I think that this,

28:15SPEAKERI think this is going to keep getting rolled back in, but it'll end in court probably for somebody

28:19SPEAKERbecause this will destroy somebody's business and they'll be like, fuck it. I'm just going to sue

28:22SPEAKERthem. And, and, and we'll see how it works out. It's bad. The whole thing's bad. Well, if you,

28:29SPEAKERwhat do you, what do you, how do you feel about going from bad to underwhelming? So what did I,

28:35SPEAKERit's a cheery week around here. Yeah. Apple had their big iPhone slash Apple watch

28:42SPEAKERslash that was it, I guess this year at unveil. Yeah. They do iPads in like March ish now,

28:50SPEAKERright? Don't they? They do two iPad events. There's the, like the, there's like the consumer

28:54SPEAKERlevel. And then there's the pros, the pros last year, the pros came out in like October,

28:58SPEAKERNovember or something, but I don't know what's happening this year. Time to, time to pull up the

29:03SPEAKERhandy Mac rumors, buyer's guide. Should I upgrade my shit? So we, we, I also realized we never did

29:11SPEAKERan iOS 17 slash all the supporting OS stuff. And I think that's actually where the interesting stuff

29:17SPEAKERis happening this year. Yeah. You, you, you keep up with that stuff a lot more closely than I do,

29:21SPEAKERbut I would love to hear what they have going on. Yeah. I installed all the betas this week for the

29:26SPEAKERphone, the TV, the watch and the iPad. I don't, I don't have a Mac, unfortunately. So can you

29:31SPEAKERinstall betas on an Apple TV? Yeah. Oh, wow. So now installing the betas is easy is going to the

29:35SPEAKERupdate page and then there's a checkbox in there. It says, get beta updates and you can check that.

29:39SPEAKERIt's like, which ones do you want? Do you want developer? Do you want public? Do you want the

29:43SPEAKERcurrent version? You want the next version? I wonder if those are vetted fairly heavily.

29:48SPEAKERIf the barrier is that low to people potentially stumbling into something that might be kind of

29:52SPEAKERbuggy, like as much as Apple values, like kind of bolt proof user experience. So they make it

29:58SPEAKERpretty clear that you're going to potentially mess your stuff up, but also as they've made

30:03SPEAKERthe betas wider, the betas have been much better. Like the, the, the, the one that I installed,

30:08SPEAKERI'm pretty sure is the final. I don't think I haven't looked at the, I haven't compared version

30:12SPEAKERnumbers because I think that just came out yesterday. But usually when you're five days out,

30:17SPEAKERfive to six days out, then you're on the final final, unless something weird happens.

30:26SPEAKERSince they started making the publicly, the betas publicly available a few years ago,

30:30SPEAKERI would say anything after the first one is probably okay. If you're not like mission

30:35SPEAKERcritical, I wouldn't put on my phone, but I put on my iPad, I guess is where I'm at. Anyway,

30:41SPEAKERI installed them all. It definitely feels like a woo, everything works better. Not a woo,

30:46SPEAKERcrazy new features here. The, the lead feature of the iOS page is when, when you call somebody,

30:55SPEAKERyou can choose the poster that comes up. It's not just like that contact picture anymore. It's now

30:59SPEAKERlike a full screen. Like you can do backgrounds, you can half tone it. You can pop yourself out.

31:07SPEAKERLike you can change the font. It's not a big feature, Brad. If I was going to say,

31:11SPEAKERif a phone call wallpaper is phone call paper, that doesn't work. It's not, it's not, I'm sorry.

31:18SPEAKERIt's underwhelming. Yeah. If that's their big leading feature, then yeah. Was, was last year

31:23SPEAKERwas 16, the customizable home screen here was right. So that was when they added widgets and

31:27SPEAKERall that stuff like that, that was like a big fundamental, like, Hey, we are changing something

31:32SPEAKERthat has been exactly the same for 10 years. Yeah. This year is a lot of smaller frames.

31:36SPEAKERThere's a lot of changes in messages for, for people who use messages differently than I do.

31:41SPEAKERLike there's all sorts of sticker stuff you can do, which I think my daughter really likes. And

31:44SPEAKERI've never engaged with that is a very pronounced generational split. Yes. Yeah. There's a audio

31:52SPEAKERmessage transcription. So when you send a voice message, which like I it's one of the, one of my

31:57SPEAKERfavorite features actually I send, like if I'm traveling and I want to say good night to my

32:00SPEAKERdaughter and she's not around, I can, she doesn't pick up the phone. I can send a voice message and

32:04SPEAKERget a good night message from her. She can send one to me. And it'll transcribe those

32:09SPEAKERautomatically now, which is nice. So you see the transcription, you can also listen to it,

32:12SPEAKERwhich is cool. It has jumped back to the last spot you saw in your conversation across devices.

32:18SPEAKERYou can reply to messages individually now, too, by swiping instead of having to like long press or

32:23SPEAKERwhatever it was you did before. I don't think I knew how to do that. And then there's stuff like

32:28SPEAKERsharing. There's more granular control over sharing your location. You can say like share

32:31SPEAKERmy location for this amount of time from inside messages without having to go to the find my

32:36SPEAKERinterface. And, and they've added a thing called check-in for people. So that's like,

32:42SPEAKERHey, send a message when I get to my house, which I think is kind of a nice thing. I don't,

32:46SPEAKERI don't know that I'll use that, but it seems good. They've also added voicemail

32:50SPEAKERand to FaceTime and live voicemail transcription to phones. So like when somebody calls you and

32:56SPEAKERleaves a voicemail, you get a little message pop-up that shows you the words as they're

33:00SPEAKERcoming into the voicemail. That seems to work without carrier update, or maybe they already

33:04SPEAKERdid the carrier update cause it's working already on Verizon. I assume FaceTime voicemails is

33:08SPEAKERliterally just a video voicemail. That's all that is. You can send a picture of your cat to somebody

33:13SPEAKERon FaceTime, a video of your cat to somebody on FaceTime. Yeah. Great. I, I, I wrote IC in

33:19SPEAKERparentheses after this, cause like the thing I don't want in my life is more voicemail,

33:24SPEAKERbut here we are. Sure. What's, can I pause real quick and ask about FaceTime etiquette?

33:30SPEAKERYeah. What's to you the proper procedure if you want to FaceTime somebody, is it to

33:37SPEAKERsend a message ahead and say, Hey, are you up to FaceTime or is it to just make the video call

33:42SPEAKERunsolicited? It depends. Like we have a standing time for my parents, Sunday morning at breakfast,

33:50SPEAKERwe usually just FaceTime them. And if they're not around, they just don't answer, which is fine.

33:55SPEAKERIf I'm FaceTiming somebody that I don't normally FaceTime, it's always a, Hey, are you around?

33:59SPEAKEROkay. Okay. You want to, you want a video call? That might also be a generational thing. Cause I

34:05SPEAKERwill say there are some much younger family members around that are quite open to just

34:13SPEAKERFaceTiming out of the blue. I had to explain to my daughter, one of my daughter's friends, parents,

34:20SPEAKERwhat war dialing was the other day. Cause I was like, Hey man, your kid, when they want to talk

34:28SPEAKERto my daughter, instead of calling once and then sending a text message, it's like, Hey, send me,

34:31SPEAKERcall me. If you have a minute, they just call 30 times in a row. So her iPad is just going

34:40SPEAKERform of notification, I guess. And then they were like, is that not okay? I was like, no,

34:44SPEAKERyou can't just call somebody 30 times in a row. What are you a psychopath? Well, it does, it does

34:49SPEAKERsend a certain message, you know, that message generally being, Hey, something is very wrong.

34:53SPEAKERThe only times in my life I've ever gotten like, you know, two digit numbers of phone calls in a

34:59SPEAKERrow from somebody it's because something really bad happened. It's bad things. Yeah. So anyway,

35:05SPEAKERI liked that my daughter describes that as war dialing though. I feel like I've done pretty well.

35:09SPEAKERGood job. It has a standby nightstand mode now. So when you have your phone sideways on and it's on

35:18SPEAKERpower, it does like widgets that you can control, which is kind of cool. I don't know. I kind of,

35:24SPEAKERI kind of like that on the watch, honestly, I think the watches nightstand mode is kind of,

35:28SPEAKERit's a little bright, but. So this one's very dim and this one actually shifts red when it's,

35:33SPEAKERwhen the room's dark. So the watch is a green and quite bright. So it's maybe a little disruptive

35:39SPEAKERsleep, but you can, you can change the brightness on that and the watch. Okay.

35:45SPEAKERLike I, I, my assumption is that they're trying to sell stands. It works really nicely on my

35:50SPEAKERcharger stand in my office. I have a flat pad on my nightstand. So I'm going to maybe move the

35:56SPEAKERcharger stand from my office into my nightstand and move the bad into the, anyway, I don't know.

36:02SPEAKERThey added Zune style bump to squirt. I'm sorry. What? Remember, remember when you had a Zune,

36:09SPEAKERyou could squirt songs to your friends. Is that really the word? Is that really the term

36:13SPEAKERthey used? It's a perfectly cromulent word. What's wrong with that? Hang on. I'm Googling

36:18SPEAKERZune a squirt right now. You're going to regret that. Here's the headline from on the news week,

36:25SPEAKERfrom 2006, the first results Zune should go beyond squirting. Yes, exactly. So, okay. So

36:34SPEAKERtyping bump to squirt into this Google doc now. You're welcome America. You can't put that as

36:39SPEAKERthat can't be the headline. I don't think because it's a different audience than we expect the when

36:46SPEAKERyou bump your phone to another person's phone, if they have the right version of iOS installed,

36:49SPEAKERit'll say, Hey, do you want to share your contact card? And which parts of it do you want to share?

36:53SPEAKERDo you want to give them your home number? You want to give them your office number? It's like,

36:56SPEAKERit seems like they've actually added the granular control to make that a thing that I would maybe

36:59SPEAKERhave used in 2005, but I'm probably never going to use as an adult now. Yeah. That couldn't actually

37:07SPEAKERrequire physical contact between phones. Right? Like I'm sure they can measure proximity, I assume.

37:11SPEAKERIt's a UWB thing. Right. I'm sure. It's kind of crazy how fast proximity has just become a

37:17SPEAKERthing in device pairing and info sharing stuff. Like I don't want to blow your mind here,

37:22SPEAKERbut I bought a new television. What? And even that television had a like, Hey,

37:27SPEAKERto pair this remote, like it needs to be, make sure it's within like a meter of the TV.

37:33SPEAKERWhat TV by the LG? No. About the Samsung? No. Well, so we'll say this.

37:38SPEAKEROkay. This will be Q and A. I have questions. This could be Q and A or patron episode or something.

37:43SPEAKEROkay. Okay. Okay. Anyway, it's for you, Brad. I'm sorry. It's been all over the place. Like

37:51SPEAKERI helped my parents pair of things. We may have talked about this, like a different Apple TV

37:56SPEAKERremote. Like that one was like, Hey, it needs to be three inches away for blah, blah, blah. Like

38:01SPEAKERthe number of, the number of devices I'm seeing specify like, Hey, it needs to be in this physical

38:05SPEAKERposition is, is, is going up rapidly. Yeah. I camera, I think it was helping my

38:11SPEAKERparents set up a TV a couple of years ago and it was like, hold the, hold the remote in this box.

38:15SPEAKEROh no. It was when I was doing sound calibration for something. It was like, hold the phone in

38:19SPEAKERthis box on front of the TV and you've just held it up there. And it did the, did the syncing or

38:23SPEAKERsomething anyway. Yeah. So you could share contacts. You can sync audio. You can share

38:29SPEAKERmusic. You'd like share play music. So you can listen to the same song at the same time

38:33SPEAKERwith a stranger on the train, like that famous, like the wired article that they've expunged from

38:38SPEAKERthe internet somehow about AirPod, iPod jacking, remember iPad jacking. It's when you walk up to

38:45SPEAKERsomebody on Muni and you grab one of their earbuds and you put it in your ear and you give them one

38:49SPEAKERof your earbuds and you each listen to each other's songs. And like, if somebody did that to me,

38:53SPEAKERI would call the police. Yeah. That's huh. Is that actually a thing?

38:57SPEAKERIt was a wired article. It wasn't a real thing. AirDrop partially finishes. Like if you

39:03SPEAKERpartially send a file and you walk out of AirDrop range of somebody, it'll now like buried in that

39:08SPEAKERAirDrop is the information required to send the stuff over the internet when both devices are

39:12SPEAKERconnected to the internet later, which is really nice. There's a bunch of AirPod pro two enhancements,

39:21SPEAKERbut also a couple of things that are applied to all AirPods and Beats. You can do better handoff

39:28SPEAKERbetween devices. So like if you switch from using your phone to your iPad, it is aware that you're

39:34SPEAKERusing a different device and will change them over automatically. Now it gives you an opportunity to

39:39SPEAKERnot do it if you want, but like it works pretty well. And I think I'm not a hundred percent that

39:44SPEAKERit worked this way, but I feel like it did because I was listening to music on my iPhone. I switched

39:50SPEAKERusing my iPad and I think it switched to the iPad and music on the iPad when I did that, playing the

39:57SPEAKERsame song I was listening to before. It just seamlessly transferred. I'm not a hundred percent

40:02SPEAKERthat's how it worked. I haven't figured out how to test it because if I turn off my phone,

40:07SPEAKERweird things happen with music. Anyway, it doesn't matter. They also added a new...

40:15SPEAKERAirPod pros have three different modes. Just like normal, they block your ear holes and you don't

40:21SPEAKERhear much stuff from the outside. Then they have a noise canceling mode, which is typically good

40:26SPEAKERenough that like my daughter can be standing next to me banging a pot and I won't hear it.

40:30SPEAKERAnd then they have a transparency mode, which is basically a pass through. So previously you'd hear

40:40SPEAKERlike all the stuff in your room and it works. It works well enough that sometimes I forget they're

40:44SPEAKERin my ears when I have it in transparency mode because you just hear the world around you like

40:48SPEAKERyou would. It doesn't sound filtered through a microphone and a pair of speakers, which is neat.

40:54SPEAKERThey added a thing called adaptive audio, which splits the difference between the old

40:59SPEAKERnoise canceling and the new transparency, where it brings the background noise down some, like the

41:05SPEAKERtwo-stroke motor across the street and the car driving by and stuff like that down a little bit,

41:10SPEAKERbut leaves the voices more prominent. So you can hear, hear voices. Sounds amazing.

41:15SPEAKERIt's really fucking good. My girlfriend is a huge, like put into earbuds and listen to podcasts

41:20SPEAKERwhile doing stuff around the house person. And I've also kind of started going in that direction

41:24SPEAKERa bit. And like, I'm sure a lot of people know that dance, right? Of just like shouting at each

41:29SPEAKERother to try to be heard through each other's earbuds. And it's impossible unless you have

41:33SPEAKERsomething like this. So this is, that sounds awesome. This is finally a reason. This only

41:36SPEAKERworks on the pro twos. It doesn't work on the pro ones. And it's, it's, it is a remarkable,

41:44SPEAKERlike it works really well. They also added conversation awareness, which means when you

41:48SPEAKERstart talking, it kind of brings down the volume of whatever you're listening to or, or pauses it,

41:53SPEAKERdepending on the app. Like I think overcast pauses, which was nice music kind of keeps playing,

41:57SPEAKERbut it's generally quieter. And personalized volume adjusts the volume based on the

42:06SPEAKERnoise around you. And from their keynote and the, the, the, the stuff on their page,

42:12SPEAKERI thought these were all one feature that were kind of integrated. These are all individual and

42:16SPEAKERyou can turn them on and off for each setting. So like you can have transparency mode or adaptive

42:21SPEAKERaudio on, you can do conversation, like transparency, adaptive audio, or noise canceling

42:29SPEAKERor off are the four overarching settings. And you can turn on the conversation awareness and

42:33SPEAKERthe personalized volume inside any of those. The adaptive audio is I think where I'm just

42:38SPEAKERgoing to leave my, my AirPods. Yeah. They added AirTag sharing inside families. So you,

42:47SPEAKERif you put an AirTag in your kids' backpack, you won't, they won't get stalker alerts for you

42:53SPEAKERhaving the AirTag in their backpack. Oh my God. I super don't want to derail this podcast, but

43:00SPEAKERtalking about AirTags makes me think about that story of Elon Musk's cousin going to the Apple

43:04SPEAKERstore in union square here and buying their entire stock of AirTags. To move all those servers from

43:11SPEAKERSacramento up to Portland. Did you read that story? Yeah, I read that story. That's a bad story.

43:15SPEAKERWe got to, we should talk about that sometime. What an insane story.

43:19SPEAKERDon't give Elon Musk your social security number and your banking information folks.

43:26SPEAKERAutocorrect uses a new language mount model on the device, so it doesn't have to go to the internet.

43:32SPEAKERIt's a better, seems better. You get red squiggles on autocorrect on things that it autocorrects,

43:37SPEAKERyou can see them. And if you, you can do the annoying thing where you press space to fill

43:42SPEAKERin words that it thinks you're going to say next. So all of our messages will sound just like

43:47SPEAKEReverybody else's messages soon. And then let's see, it has a don't hold your phone so close to

43:54SPEAKERyour eyeballs nag to keep you from going blind. It seems like a better solution would give you a,

44:02SPEAKER"Hey, you've been looking at your phone for three hours, you should go touch grass for a little bit."

44:06SPEAKERBut I don't know, they didn't put that one in yet. And you can use SOS for roadside assistance now,

44:13SPEAKERjust like, "Hey, I'm trapped under a rock in a canyon and I'm going to die," kind of situations.

44:19SPEAKEROh, and they're adding a journal app that's end to end and encrypted lives on the device later this

44:26SPEAKERyear, which presumably will show like an entire category of daily journal apps. There's a whole

44:31SPEAKERbuttload of those. - Sure. Does that include stuff like Obsidian that's like more task oriented or

44:37SPEAKERare we talking more just kind of flat text? - I think it's more like the bullet journal

44:44SPEAKERand I think the thing it'll hurt is like the daily personal journal stuff, not like the

44:48SPEAKERcorporate note taking stuff like Obsidian or Notion or whatever. So that's the big stuff in

44:55SPEAKERiOS 17. There's some stuff. So there's the watch and the iPad get new stuff too. And the TV kind

45:01SPEAKERof got a lot of new stuff this year. iPad gets lock screen widgets this year, which is great.

45:07SPEAKER- It seemed weird. They didn't roll that out last year, but good.

45:09SPEAKER- Yeah. Sometimes iPad lags a little bit. They've interactive widgets. There's a health app on iPad

45:16SPEAKERnow that syncs with your phone health app. I can't believe that that wasn't there actually.

45:20SPEAKER- That one's right up there with weather, which I think weather just rolled out last year. I think

45:24SPEAKERfinally, like there's still no calculator. Apple has always just been so weirdly opinionated about,

45:30SPEAKERI mean, stop me if you've heard this one before. They've had weird, strong opinions about what

45:35SPEAKERshouldn't be on an iPad and like the health app not being on there is ridiculous.

45:39SPEAKER- Well, the health app is especially rough because if you have a family install watch,

45:45SPEAKERwhich means you don't have to have it paired with the phone. The only way for the person who has

45:50SPEAKERthat watch to access their health data is to use the parent that that watch is attached to his

45:56SPEAKERphone. Yeah, it's weird. - Another implication I just,

46:00SPEAKERI hadn't thought of is that they, I believe they store all the health data in the secure enclave

46:04SPEAKERon the newer stuff as well. So maybe there were also privacy issues there.

46:09SPEAKER- Yeah. I think the iPads have had secure enclaves because I think that's part of the SOC,

46:13SPEAKERbut I could be wrong. Anyway, health app, they did a bunch of work on notes for iPad specifically.

46:19SPEAKERYou can interact and write and draw on, you can embed PDFs in notes. You can write on them and

46:25SPEAKERmark them up now, which is exciting. You can link notes to other notes. So it's getting more like a

46:31SPEAKERnotiony type, you know, a web of Wiki style note app than just like a list of things you've written

46:38SPEAKERdown about yourself. They added profiles to Safari for different browser. I think the intent is that

46:44SPEAKERyou have like a work profile and a home personal profile, but like the dream is that they'll let

46:50SPEAKERyou have multiple user accounts on your iPad. I would buy bigger iPads if I could have multiple

46:54SPEAKERuser accounts on my iPad, because I would give my kid one. Sensitive content warning. This is

47:01SPEAKERacross all, actually. This is on iOS, as well. But if you get a picture that the machine learning detects,

47:09SPEAKERI assume shock images, pornography, people getting murdered, stuff that you might not want to see,

47:17SPEAKERit's fuzzed out and you get a content warning on pictures from everything. AirDrop messages,

47:26SPEAKERFaceTime, third party apps. Seems like people are sending AirDrop messages to people on trains and

47:31SPEAKERpublic spaces that have bad things on them. So anyway, that's good. This is one of those ones

47:39SPEAKERthat I'm like, I'm of two minds on because I'm sure the processing for this is happening on the

47:44SPEAKERdevice, but I want to know how they make the model for the bad images. Because I assume that there's

47:47SPEAKERa human cost to that. At the same time, I'm also really glad that when my daughter gets a phone and

47:54SPEAKERis riding a bus, then she's not going to get AirDrop terrible images. - I think I would just

47:59SPEAKERturn off public AirDrop. - That's the right answer. Almost certainly. Although because the AirDrop

48:07SPEAKERstuff, the public AirDrop is the, sorry, the private AirDrop is so generally unusable because

48:16SPEAKERmost people's phones, most people's Apple IDs aren't their public email address. So most people

48:23SPEAKERuse like, I know your Gmail address, but your Apple ID is probably an Apple Mac.com or Apple,

48:30SPEAKERI can't even, I don't know what the iCloud.com address. And I don't know your iCloud address. So

48:35SPEAKERthat means my iPhone doesn't think I know you and your iPhone doesn't think you know me.

48:41SPEAKERBut yeah, anyway, here we are. - I think you can, can you toggle AirDrop on from

48:46SPEAKERcontrol center? - You used to be able to, but oh, you can still? - Yeah, you can toggle it on. You

48:50SPEAKERcan toggle on AirDrop receiving with like two taps. So maybe that's the compromise is just

48:57SPEAKERturned on when you need it. - Honestly, this is maybe where the proximity thing is actually

49:01SPEAKERuseful too. Cause when I need to get a phone number or something from somebody at both,

49:05SPEAKERlike one of my daughter's friend's parents, which is where I do most of that stuff now,

49:10SPEAKERmaybe just touching the phones is the right way to go. I don't know. Let's see, they added,

49:19SPEAKERoh, that's it. That's basically it for iPad. The watch, oh, they changed the way the over,

49:27SPEAKERthere's more, the weird thing that I don't know if you actually use it. The thing that lets you

49:32SPEAKERhave multiple windows like on top of each other. So it looks like a weird Mac instead of an iPad

49:36SPEAKERwith split screen. I can't remember what it's called. - Oh, I hate that. - Oh, see, I use it

49:42SPEAKERkind of a lot. - If you got used to it, I can, I'm sure it could be useful. I just, I have,

49:47SPEAKERI have never, I have never felt more old person out of touch with technology than when I stumble

49:52SPEAKERinto enabling that without meaning to, and have no idea how to like detach the windows and get

49:56SPEAKERit back to full screen again. - Yeah. It's, it's weird to have a dock on, on all your iPad screen,

50:02SPEAKERbut that's better. I still find it pretty janky. It's a thing I turn on when I want to use,

50:08SPEAKERlike when I'm doing podcast show notes in the morning and I'm sitting on my iPad with the

50:11SPEAKERkeyboard, I often will have a browser window and a Google docs window open and I go back and forth

50:19SPEAKERbetween them, but that's pretty much it. And then I turn it off afterwards cause it eats battery.

50:25SPEAKER- What size iPad do you have again? - The 11 inch. - Okay. - Yeah. Or 10.9, whatever. Yeah.

50:32SPEAKERWatchOS, the apps are redesigned to use the full screen on the seven and eight and nine,

50:39SPEAKERwhich is good. - Were they gone already? - They kind of were. This is one of those

50:44SPEAKERchanges that like the hiking app shows it and like it's, they're just doing back work for the,

50:49SPEAKERfor the apps that they hadn't touched yet. - Okay. - There's a new smart stack, the Siri smart stack

50:55SPEAKERthing, which you can put on your phone. It basically lets Siri pick which from a subset of

51:01SPEAKERwhich widgets you want to see. It basically, it's really good. Like you roll, you scroll the crown

51:07SPEAKERand you get the things that Siri thinks you want at that particular time. - That's interesting.

51:13SPEAKERCause I just use the home, like the manual kind of home screen doc, whatever they call it,

51:18SPEAKERwhere you just decide which, which like subset of apps you want quick access to.

51:21SPEAKERBut yeah, if this is good, if this is good at figuring out what it is you're looking for,

51:26SPEAKERthat sounds useful. - Like the other day when I went out to go for a walk and I hit it up,

51:31SPEAKERit was like, oh, you do that. You do an outdoor walk at this time. So hit the button. - I quite

51:36SPEAKERliterally that my entire layout is built around my exercise schedule and having the workout app

51:41SPEAKERfloat to the top as much as possible. - Yeah. It's, it's pretty smart. The control center now,

51:48SPEAKERthe like you get to that by hitting the side button. I think you can still swipe up from the

51:52SPEAKERbottom. Oh no, that's gone. It's, it's the, it's the, it's the widget stack on the, when you swipe

51:57SPEAKERup from the bottom, but yeah, hitting the button is a better, is, is, was an easy change. There's

52:03SPEAKERa new cycling workflow, which lets you trigger the cycling while live activity on your phone.

52:09SPEAKERSo like if you plug it, when I, when I did this the other day, I plugged my phone into the

52:13SPEAKERdock on my, on my bike and I started the cycling workout and then all of the cycling stuff,

52:18SPEAKERlike how fast I was going in my altitude change and the wind was like, I look, I was just riding

52:22SPEAKERaround to the ice cream shop. So it wasn't like I needed to know what my wind was, but it was cool.

52:27SPEAKERIf you're really into cycling, I can see how that would be useful. More interesting to me is that

52:33SPEAKERthe watch was able to trigger a live activity on my phone that lived in the dynamic,

52:37SPEAKERin the dynamic, the, the, the notch, the new notch. And that, that is the interesting, like,

52:45SPEAKERlike if they're going to let watch and other apps trigger the dynamic activities in the, in the,

52:52SPEAKERin the, in the weather, what did they call that thing? The dynamic island,

52:55SPEAKERdynamic island. Thank you. In the dynamic island. That's exciting.

52:59SPEAKERWhich I mean, we're skipping ahead. I think are all the phones getting that now? We'll get there.

53:03SPEAKERYeah. All the phones have the dynamic island. Like the island is everywhere now.

53:07SPEAKERThe notch is dead, Brad. Finally, an island to get away is available to everyone.

53:13SPEAKERI think we can all use one. The hiking app they did a lot of work on.

53:16SPEAKERIt's cool. It seems cool. I don't think I knew there was a discreet hiking app. Is that separate

53:22SPEAKERfrom, I don't have a hiking app when I look at my watch. That's something you have to go out and get.

53:27SPEAKERYou do? No, it's built into activities. It's built into the workout thing. So when you say I want to

53:33SPEAKERdo a hike. Oh, does that trigger like extra functionality? I, I always do outdoor walk. I

53:40SPEAKERdon't typically do hike. So, you get it basically marks the start of the trailhead. It's, it's tied

53:47SPEAKERto, I don't actually know how you get to it. If you're not on the right watch face, I do it on

53:53SPEAKERthe Explorer. I have it as a widget on one of my watch faces. And when you hit, when you hit the

54:00SPEAKERstart, it's, it's like, okay, here's the trailhead and it locks the GPS in for that. And then it

54:06SPEAKERtracks your path as you're walking on the trail. And now like that's, you know, when you hit

54:12SPEAKERelevation milestones and it also marks when you last had cell connectivity and where you got SOS

54:17SPEAKERsignals, if you have an SOS watch and that's new, that's new. Yeah. That's awesome. Like, Hey, I

54:23SPEAKERneed to go back here to get, to be able to call someone is a seems good. Yeah. Even, even in a

54:28SPEAKERnon-emergency situation that is super handy to have. Yeah. And then it also has myopia stuff.

54:35SPEAKERThey add time spent in daylight with the watch to the you're holding your shit too close warning.

54:40SPEAKERI really do think that a, having talked to her, not my optometrist this week, and she was like,

54:45SPEAKERyeah, pretty sure that letting kids spend too much time on their screens is what's making them

54:49SPEAKERall nearsighted now. Scientifically speaking was a like a yo, you need to take a break every hour

54:57SPEAKERwould be a good ad for all devices probably. She, she, she literally said it's better to watch TV

55:04SPEAKERfor 15 minutes than it is to spend a nonstop time on an iPad at this point for kids. I don't think

55:10SPEAKERI realized there was such a direct causation factor there between. They told us for a long

55:16SPEAKERtime that there was not because they didn't think that that was the case. It was genetic,

55:20SPEAKERbut it turns out the people who like to read often have children who like to read and people who like

55:24SPEAKERto do models have kids that do models and like watchmakers have watchmakers for kids and anyway.

55:31SPEAKERYeah. Raises some questions about my viewing habits over time. Yeah. So laying in bed,

55:35SPEAKERwatching shit on your phone instead of watching the TV on the wall is probably a mistake in

55:39SPEAKERretrospect anyway. And speaking of TVs, a bunch of stuff on tvOS, you could finally use your TV

55:45SPEAKERas the display for a FaceTime call in a non-janky way. It just kind of works. Now there's a FaceTime

55:51SPEAKERapp on the TV. You can choose which of your devices you want to use as the camera like that.

55:56SPEAKERThat seems pretty good. They're adding support for the API for that. It's available. So,

56:02SPEAKERso WebEx is going to have it. I assume this means we'll see Apple TVs in conference rooms

56:08SPEAKERbefore too, too long. The control center is smaller and redesigned. I don't know if it's

56:16SPEAKERbetter or not, but it's different. When you use your phone as the remote to connect to the TV,

56:23SPEAKERit automatically connects to your Apple TV profile. So theoretically in the future,

56:28SPEAKERwhen the apps get their shit together and support it, that means I'll turn on the TV in the living

56:33SPEAKERroom. And when I open Hulu, it'll be like, "Oh, this is Will. I should just log into Will's profile."

56:38SPEAKEROr this is Netflix will go, "I should just log into Will's profile." And I shouldn't have to

56:43SPEAKERchoose whether I pick my profile, Gina's profile, or the kiddo's profile every time we launch an

56:48SPEAKERapp on the TV. I guess this is good. Yeah, it seems like getting toward useful. Do you guys

56:56SPEAKERuse different profiles? Do you have your own Netflix profile or do you have a shared one where

57:01SPEAKERit's like the mishmash? You mean between the two of us? Yeah, between the two of you. No,

57:04SPEAKERno, we didn't know. We definitely don't have two profiles for everything. I wonder if that's

57:08SPEAKERsomething people do when they have kids, so you avoid getting a million bluey episodes in all

57:12SPEAKERyour recommendations for everything. That's been my experience mostly is what I've seen is there's

57:16SPEAKERan adult's profile and a kid's profile or something like that. See, Gina and I watch

57:20SPEAKERwildly different TV stuff, so we keep our stuff nice and separate. Fair.

57:28SPEAKEREasier swapping between audio devices. This burned me the other day. Literally,

57:33SPEAKERGina and the kiddo thought I was dead because I wasn't responding to them, and I had noise

57:36SPEAKERcanceling on while I was watching a movie in bed. Finally, they came in and were like, "Are you OK?"

57:43SPEAKERI was like, "Yeah, I'm fine. I was just watching a movie." They're like, "We've been yelling at

57:45SPEAKERyou for five minutes. You didn't hear anything." I was like, "Oh." Maybe be careful with the noise

57:49SPEAKERcanceling. When you select a TV from your iPhone now, there's an option for find the remote that

57:58SPEAKERgoes with this Apple TV. It does the Bluetooth hot or colder thing. It doesn't have the UWB

58:07SPEAKERdirectional dealy yet. My guess is that that is in the next Apple TV update, finally,

58:12SPEAKERafter all these years. Then this last one here I'm just chuckling at quietly.

58:19SPEAKERLook, now that they've added corporate video conferencing stuff to the Apple TV,

58:24SPEAKERthey need a solution for VPNs. It's the only reason I could think that they would

58:28SPEAKERneed OS-level support for third-party VPN apps, Brad.

58:31SPEAKERNo other reason.

58:33SPEAKERIf you want to watch your soccer, you've got options now.

58:36SPEAKERThat's right. That's crazy. That's amazing that they did that.

58:41SPEAKERHaving used this for a week, all this stuff together, the story isn't that anything is

58:47SPEAKERremarkable. Everything works better together. If you only use a phone, you're probably not

58:53SPEAKERgoing to be particularly whelmed.

58:55SPEAKERYeah. Yes. A bunch of iterative stuff. A bunch of nice to haves, it sounds like.

59:00SPEAKERI'm sure there are a lot of high-level decision-makers at Apple listening.

59:03SPEAKERCan you all just build WireGuard into the VPN support at the OS level, please?

59:08SPEAKERIf you install the app, it just works. It just looks into the VPN panel.

59:11SPEAKERSo, I mean, I'm being nitpicky here. From a user experience standpoint, you're right,

59:15SPEAKERit shows up as a VPN connection in the system level, but that's still a user space implementation

59:19SPEAKERof WireGuard. So it would be more efficient from a battery standpoint to have it built

59:26SPEAKERin at the kernel level.

59:27SPEAKERIf you build it into the kernel level, they're not going to give you the level of control

59:31SPEAKERover it that you want, would be my bet.

59:33SPEAKERMaybe not.

59:33SPEAKERAnyway.

59:34SPEAKERI don't know. I've had mixed experiences running the WireGuard app in terms of battery drain.

59:39SPEAKERReally?

59:40SPEAKERYeah. On my iPhone.

59:41SPEAKERProbably because your phone is... Without the notch, the battery drain is just too...

59:45SPEAKERYeah, you don't have enough battery in there.

59:47SPEAKERClearly powering all that extra backlight is just...

59:49SPEAKERAll that bad non-OLED screen.

59:52SPEAKERObviously.

59:52SPEAKERThe power required to make the home button work.

59:56SPEAKERI don't know. Sorry, we don't have to get into it too much. Sometimes I've walked around with

1:00:01SPEAKERthe VPN just connected passively for an afternoon and it was not a problem. And other times it

1:00:07SPEAKERfelt like the battery has dropped 10% in like half an hour. So I don't know what's going on there.

1:00:13SPEAKERI mean, I think they're selling a VPN product now that's a security VPN is the idea, but not a,

1:00:18SPEAKER"Hey, I want to watch TV that's not available in my region VPN."

1:00:22SPEAKERYes. Or I want to stream my music from home or something like that.

1:00:27SPEAKERI want to watch BBC, not in the UK and not paying my television fee. Anyway,

1:00:32SPEAKERthey also did new hardware this week. I don't want to say it's underwhelming because it's

1:00:38SPEAKERkind of a cliche at this point, but it was like, this is a...

1:00:41SPEAKERThat's fun.

1:00:42SPEAKERSeems like maybe skip it this year. Phones are pretty clearly in the,

1:00:47SPEAKER"I should buy a new phone every other year" at most era now, I think.

1:00:51SPEAKERYes. Unless you're doing something like the Samsung folding phone,

1:00:54SPEAKERthe West came on and talked about phones are just kind of phones now, right?

1:00:58SPEAKERYeah. I think not having handled the phone, my guess is that the... So iPhone 15 Pro is a titanium

1:01:06SPEAKERband around the frame. Now it's an aluminum body with a titanium. The outer loop is titanium now.

1:01:12SPEAKERWait, wait, hang on. Are they not doing the glass back anymore?

1:01:16SPEAKERThe back is still glass.

1:01:17SPEAKEROh, okay.

1:01:18SPEAKERSo it's like the, if you look at the phone, the back, I'm holding my phone up for Brad,

1:01:23SPEAKERthe back is like smoked hard glass. And then it's got a metal edge that's pretty much flush

1:01:30SPEAKERwith the... You can't see it because it's purple, but...

1:01:32SPEAKERThat's the frame?

1:01:33SPEAKERThat's the frame. And then the metal bits inside are still aluminum.

1:01:38SPEAKERI see.

1:01:38SPEAKERSo where it was stainless before, titanium is a lot lighter than stainless. So presumably when

1:01:44SPEAKERyou pick this phone up, it's going to feel significantly lighter than it did in previous years.

1:01:49SPEAKERInteresting. Are you still rolling caseless?

1:01:53SPEAKERI'm naked, baby.

1:01:54SPEAKERAre you enjoying it? I hate cases.

1:01:57SPEAKERI put the ring on the back so I have something to grip onto.

1:02:00SPEAKEROkay.

1:02:01SPEAKERMainly because the phone's too fucking heavy. I have a Pro Max because I want the good camera.

1:02:08SPEAKEROr the titanium might be for you then, it sounds like.

1:02:11SPEAKERI ordered one, but it's not getting here until November because

1:02:13SPEAKERI forgot to do it at five o'clock in the morning the other day. Anyway...

1:02:16SPEAKERI mean, I'm still on my SE3, but the glass back has always been the reason that I've

1:02:20SPEAKERwanted a case or a cover on there, but maybe the glass is more durable than I think.

1:02:25SPEAKERSo I've dropped this one a handful of times. I dropped it hard enough on concrete to take a

1:02:30SPEAKERchunk out of one of the corners and it didn't do anything to the glass. It cracked the screen

1:02:35SPEAKERprotector I had on. I put the glass underneath was fine.

1:02:42SPEAKERI would describe myself as reasonably confident in the back glass. Like I have dropped it,

1:02:48SPEAKERlike I said, I dropped it on concrete. I've dropped it on wood a bunch. It's fine.

1:02:52SPEAKERIt's been pretty good for me so far.

1:02:54SPEAKERDoes it passively just scratch the glass a lot just in normal use?

1:02:58SPEAKERWell, I put the screen protector on just so I don't get those micro scratches.

1:03:01SPEAKERThat was the other thing. I have taken my phone out of the case. I might give it... Oh man,

1:03:05SPEAKERit's so much nicer without that big bulky case on there.

1:03:08SPEAKERYeah. The screen protector, I honestly, I put the screen protector on the front just so I don't like

1:03:13SPEAKERwhen you put it in a jeans pocket, it has rivets or you have some grit in your pocket or something.

1:03:17SPEAKERSo you don't scratch it up from that. And I've broken enough screen protectors to make me feel

1:03:23SPEAKERgood about the choice to put a decent screen protector on.

1:03:26SPEAKERSure.

1:03:27SPEAKERYeah. I don't know. In my mind, I was always like, "Oh, I should keep the glass as scratch-free as

1:03:31SPEAKERI can to try to maximize the trade-in value." But then if you're keeping the phone long enough,

1:03:35SPEAKERwhat does trade-in value really matter anyway?

1:03:37SPEAKERI mean, that's the thing. The trade-in value, once you go past the second year,

1:03:43SPEAKERI kind of don't think you get enough money to make it worth giving them the phone back.

1:03:46SPEAKERYou should just keep it and give it to your kid or use it as a spare or something.

1:03:49SPEAKERSure. God, oh man, I wish you could repurpose old iPhones.

1:03:53SPEAKERWell, that standby thing, I think, is going to make a neat ambient display for an old iPhone.

1:03:58SPEAKERYeah, that sounds cool. You know what I mean, though. I'm talking more,

1:04:03SPEAKERI wish you could install Linux on it or something.

1:04:05SPEAKERYeah. Well, good luck with that.

1:04:08SPEAKEROkay. So the titanium band, theoretically, it's lighter. How that feels in practice

1:04:12SPEAKERremains to be seen. They're doing new glass. The glass is harder on both the front and the back

1:04:18SPEAKERnow. The toggle switch that's been on the phone since the very beginning, one of Steve Jobs'

1:04:24SPEAKERfavorite features, the "Hey, you can make it quiet and look at it and know that it's quiet,"

1:04:29SPEAKERis now a touch button. Actual favorite features?

1:04:33SPEAKERHe called that out during the initial iPhone keynote as,

1:04:36SPEAKER"We have a physical switch on here to let you know that it's quiet."

1:04:39SPEAKERI see. Yeah. That quiet has been wobbly

1:04:46SPEAKERfor the last few years. There are clearly Apple design guidelines about how you're supposed to

1:04:56SPEAKERinterpret that signal for the user. Apple arcade games, if you have your phone in silent mode,

1:05:02SPEAKERdon't make sound. A lot of other non-Apple arcade games that don't have to follow their

1:05:08SPEAKERcertification guidelines absolutely make sound when you have the phone in silent.

1:05:14SPEAKERI don't know. It's a little fraught. I feel like if you have headphones on when the silent mode is

1:05:19SPEAKERon, you should get sound from the phone. Some stuff does, some stuff doesn't. It's weird.

1:05:24SPEAKERI feel a little bit weird about losing the toggle switch. Also, the fact that now you can connect

1:05:30SPEAKERthat to a bunch of different actions, including triggering a shortcut, is pretty nice. That means

1:05:35SPEAKERbasically you can do anything you want with it. I wonder if those actions, I would assume,

1:05:39SPEAKERmaybe vary between focus modes. Like in different focus profiles, it can be mapped to different

1:05:44SPEAKERthings. I don't know if they get to that level yet. You can probably do that with a shortcut,

1:05:49SPEAKERif I had to guess, because you can do if loops on shortcuts, I believe.

1:05:55SPEAKERDynamic Island, which has been kind of a snooze for the first year it's been out with iPhone 14s,

1:06:00SPEAKER14 Pros, is now on this. I don't know why I put Dynamic Island here, but you can make them full

1:06:09SPEAKERscreen now. I think that's an iOS feature. Maybe it's for this, too. I've never used it for

1:06:17SPEAKERanything other than a timer, I don't think. None of the delivery apps I use use it to pop up and

1:06:22SPEAKERhave, "Hey, your food's almost here." I took two or three flights this year. The Alaska app doesn't

1:06:33SPEAKERuse it. Nothing uses it except for Apple stuff, it seems like. This year it's coming to all the

1:06:39SPEAKERphones, so maybe we'll see a little more uptick. The camera, which is usually the main reason for

1:06:46SPEAKERpeople to upgrade phones, is a 5X zoom now. They did it only on the Pro Max, the big boy.

1:06:55SPEAKERThey did a bunch of weird reflections inside the device so they can get enough throw on the lens

1:07:00SPEAKERto do a 5X. It has a periscope, so there's a prism and a periscope in there that reflects it down

1:07:06SPEAKERonto the sensor. It seems kind of crazy. It seems like you can select your main camera lens in the

1:07:13SPEAKERcamera app. You can say, "Okay, I want to always start with the 1X, the 2X, whatever." They're

1:07:19SPEAKERdoing 35 mil equivalents on these now, which is an interesting choice. Apparently, you'll be able

1:07:25SPEAKERto do spatial video captures for the five people that buy the VR headset next year.

1:07:31SPEAKERWait, I wonder, are those format agnostic captures? Are we talking volumetric 3D

1:07:38SPEAKERvideo and could you use that on anything? My guess is it'll be encoded like the depth

1:07:43SPEAKERcamera is on portrait mode on iPhone 10 pluses, 10s and newer, but I don't know.

1:07:49SPEAKERI don't know that they've released specs for that yet. Maybe they did it at WWDC this year.

1:07:52SPEAKERI didn't pay attention to that. It has a USB-C port.

1:07:57SPEAKERYeah, that was the big question. Well, maybe not the big question because it seems like most Apple

1:08:02SPEAKERstuff leaks out of supply chain and accessory design these days. I think that probably has been

1:08:07SPEAKERreported by analysts for a year at this point, but still, at some point, that was the big question

1:08:12SPEAKERwith the EU legislation of, are they going to make two phones now or are they going to make

1:08:17SPEAKERone for Europe with USB-C and one for everywhere else without, but it seems like they're just going

1:08:22SPEAKERwhole hog. Well, because previously they shipped a dongle, right? Which was the EU would allow,

1:08:27SPEAKERI think. So they had a lightning cable to a dongle that let you use a micro USB thing on it. Now,

1:08:33SPEAKERthe dongle is no longer allowed. It's the typical USB-C thing where it uses USB PD,

1:08:41SPEAKERwhatever plus plus the high speed that the phone charges at. It only is USB 3.0 data transfers,

1:08:50SPEAKERwhich is probably as much as the phone can support would be my guess.

1:08:54SPEAKERYeah. What is that? I think five gigabits per second for 3.0.

1:08:58SPEAKERYeah. You could go up to 3.2, but that's essentially, you're talking about PCI express

1:09:03SPEAKERlanes inside out of your PC at that point. And I don't know that the phone's memory controller

1:09:09SPEAKERcan handle that, especially on battery. How many, well, I started to say how many

1:09:12SPEAKERpeople are even doing large scale transfers over a cable as opposed to wireless anyway,

1:09:16SPEAKERbut then again, they, you know, they straight up push the iPhone as a production tool these days.

1:09:21SPEAKERThere's like, there's a Twitter ad campaign right now where like, Oh, Olivia Rodrigo's

1:09:26SPEAKERnewest video was shot entirely on the 15 pro or whatever, you know? So like there are

1:09:32SPEAKERuse cases for dumping like high quality 4k video off of a phone.

1:09:36SPEAKERSo having used an iPhone 14 pro to shoot a long thing at a high-res this spring,

1:09:44SPEAKERhaving faster transfer speeds would be nice. It took a long, like by far the longest part of that

1:09:50SPEAKERprocess was copying the video off of the iPhone. That's right. I think you ended up going wifi to

1:09:54SPEAKERget it off rather than, of course that was USB two speeds over that port, right?

1:09:58SPEAKERYeah. So I was, it was way faster doing it over wifi than it was doing it over the USB two. The

1:10:03SPEAKERUSB three is probably my guess is it'll end up being about the same. You can apparently charge

1:10:10SPEAKERthe AirPods off of the phone. If you have USB-C to USB-C cable and the new USB-C AirPod case for

1:10:16SPEAKERyour AirPod pro twos. It's kind of cool. I mean, maybe, I don't know. I'd rather put the, I think

1:10:21SPEAKERI'd rather just touch the key charger on the AirPods to the key charger on my phone. And I

1:10:28SPEAKERdon't look more flexibility is great. Yeah. That could be handy in a pinch. Yeah. Apple's saying

1:10:34SPEAKERsame battery life. It's a slightly like one to 2% larger battery, depending on which model

1:10:38SPEAKERof pro phone you get. And it comes in four colors and it's basically the same price as it was last

1:10:46SPEAKERyear, which is a reduction given how bad inflation has been this year. Good job America. Anything

1:10:53SPEAKERinteresting with the SOC? I'm guessing no faster. That's about it. They're saying the GPU is faster.

1:10:57SPEAKERIt has ray tracing. Yes. There are games coming out. I haven't dug into that too much. I'm going

1:11:02SPEAKERto have to look at that for next week, but like, the resident evil four remake is coming out on

1:11:07SPEAKERiPhone and some other stuff. Yeah. It's it's the, I kind of want to wait to talk about GPU until we

1:11:15SPEAKERactually see real benchmarks from real people because the way they talk about GPU is so

1:11:19SPEAKERdisingenuous. Like they're, they're seeming, trying to make it equivalent to a 500 watt

1:11:27SPEAKERdesktop GPU, which is just laughable. So yeah, I, I'm, I'm wait and see on what the GPU actually

1:11:38SPEAKERdoes. I guess is what I would say. I don't necessarily want to play. It looks like Death

1:11:42SPEAKERStranding is one of the games that actually, that might actually be a good iPad game. If you think

1:11:48SPEAKERabout it. I don't, I don't necessarily want to play. Yeah, yeah, sure. I don't, I don't,

1:11:52SPEAKERI, this is not my preferred way of playing these games obviously, but I, but I can't wait to see

1:11:56SPEAKERsome like digital foundry breakdowns of performance and what, what features are there.

1:12:01SPEAKERYeah. It's an, it isn't there. They're calling as they always do. It's called the A17. It's

1:12:07SPEAKERa new version of the CPU, the SOC. It has a handful of new features in it. There's new

1:12:14SPEAKERdifferent language models loaded on the, on the, on the tensor machine language cores,

1:12:19SPEAKERmachine learning cores. And the benefit that they have is they're doing a lot of stuff on

1:12:24SPEAKERboard the chip now instead of sending it to the cloud. That's been the case for the last,

1:12:27SPEAKERI think two phones at this point. The iPhone 15, which is basically a 14 Pro,

1:12:35SPEAKERbut with two cameras, it doesn't have the telephoto camera. It has the dynamic island.

1:12:40SPEAKERIt has the OLED screen. I don't think it has the 120 Hertz screen. I forgot to look at that. Oh,

1:12:45SPEAKERinteresting. And that's last year's SOC. Like you said, it's last year's SOC. I would say that this

1:12:50SPEAKERseems like a really fine phone. Yeah. And then none of the titanium, the new materials, I assume.

1:12:55SPEAKERYeah. None of the titanium, the titanium is only on the pro. I honestly, we didn't talk about the

1:13:00SPEAKERtitanium much. I'm kind of surprised they're doing titanium because it's really expensive.

1:13:03SPEAKERThere's not a lot of it. My assumption is that like they're buying bits of old Russian submarines

1:13:09SPEAKERto make these. And and it's really hard to, it's like notoriously difficult to machine

1:13:16SPEAKERbecause it's, because it's, it's it's just hard. It's really, really hard.

1:13:21SPEAKERI would love to see, and I'm sure they would never, this is like a trade secret. I'm sure

1:13:25SPEAKERthat they closely guard their manufacturing process, but I wonder like what, what does

1:13:30SPEAKERtheir kind of materials reclamation process look like on assembly lines? You know, it's

1:13:34SPEAKERlike you've got little bits of titanium being shaved off. Like I'm sure they like collect and

1:13:39SPEAKERreuse all the metals and stuff, right? Yeah. I mean, they used to show videos of that when

1:13:44SPEAKERthey did the, I want to say when they did the first unit body Mac book, maybe they,

1:13:49SPEAKERthey showed a video of like the spindles coming off the side and then getting sucked into the,

1:13:55SPEAKERinto the yo, we're going to melt this down and use this again. Chunks. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah.

1:13:59SPEAKERIt's it's it's cool. I don't know how that works with titanium. I don't know how you

1:14:03SPEAKERforge titanium. I've never, I don't have any experience with that. But all I know is that

1:14:09SPEAKERthe one time I tried to machine titanium went the worst of anything I ever tried to make. So,

1:14:15SPEAKERsomething to think about. Yeah. That's it. It's they're cheaper. They come in more colors. You

1:14:22SPEAKERcan get a yellow one. It seems nice. No mini this year was the first year. Did the last year have a

1:14:28SPEAKERmini? No mini last year. I don't think they're, I think the SE, I think in the battle of mini

1:14:33SPEAKERversus SE, the old people who don't want to have a notch or a, and want to keep a home button when,

1:14:40SPEAKERand the mini goes away, which is a bummer. Cause I like the mini to me is a good kid phone.

1:14:46SPEAKERSE is a good old person phone. Hey, come on. Look, you got to get the, the grandparents can't

1:14:53SPEAKERhandle learning the new user interface. So once you reach a certain level of brain plasticity,

1:14:57SPEAKERit's bad to introduce new concepts. Look, I could kind of go either way on the notch at this point,

1:15:02SPEAKERbut having a home button, I, I really liked the home button. I know, but anyway, I don't want to

1:15:09SPEAKERgive my kid a phone without a fucking, with a home button at this point. Cause I don't want her to

1:15:13SPEAKERget used to a home button. I get it. I get it. I, you know, let's just say after, you know, I guess

1:15:18SPEAKERthey did address this problem eventually, but after long periods of having to wear masks all

1:15:23SPEAKERover the place, not having to deal with face ID was quite nice. It's not a problem anymore. I

1:15:28SPEAKERknow. Yeah. I like the home button. And we didn't talk about vaccines. You should go get vaccinated

1:15:34SPEAKERvaccinated now. Yes. New vaccines are out. Yeah. Yes. I'm going next week.

1:15:41SPEAKERI should make that appointment. Apparently the mini did disastrously bad. Yeah. It was

1:15:46SPEAKERTrey was a tragic amount. Like eight people bought them. Well, they, they've kind of like, look,

1:15:54SPEAKERthey didn't make it clear what the value proposition of the mini versus the se was.

1:15:58SPEAKERAnd the se was a lot cheaper as I recall, like a hundred bucks cheaper on a 400 or $200 phone,

1:16:03SPEAKER$300 phone. That is the main reason I got the se is that I don't care that much about phones

1:16:08SPEAKERat this point. And the price to especially performance, like it was the current SOC.

1:16:12SPEAKERIt was like the same as the, as the regular phone for like half the price. It was just like,

1:16:17SPEAKERI just want a basic phone that works. And this thing is fast as hell.

1:16:20SPEAKERI'm, I'm curious for people who are still listening, what you've done for your kid's

1:16:25SPEAKERfirst phone and like when they got them, like my daughter is starting to do stuff off on her own

1:16:29SPEAKERor with friends now that I want her to have something that's a little more reliable than

1:16:32SPEAKERthe watch. And we're, we're starting to think about phones and I'm curious what, like, did you

1:16:38SPEAKERdo like, normally I would say, do a hand me down, but I have these Gina and I both have the big,

1:16:42SPEAKERridiculous thousand dollar phones. I don't think I want to give my kid even a year old thousand

1:16:48SPEAKERdollar phone. So anyway, I'm interested in what people do. Please write in post messages in the,

1:16:53SPEAKERin the discord. Last part is the watch, Apple watch nine, Apple watch ultra two. The big,

1:17:03SPEAKERthe big showcase feature is that you can do gestures just with your hand without having

1:17:09SPEAKERto touch the screen for when your other hand is full or like if your sword fighting or something,

1:17:13SPEAKERI guess we'll take a call. Yeah. Under, under the hood, there's a new SOC,

1:17:16SPEAKERwhich they did not have last year. I guess that's the big distinction. Cause when I got,

1:17:20SPEAKERI got the eight last year and it was basically the same internal guts as the seven, but they're

1:17:24SPEAKERsaying like, Oh, the new, the new watch SOC is what's enabling these new gestures and stuff.

1:17:30SPEAKERYeah. It's I assume that they're doing by tracking really precise movements in space,

1:17:36SPEAKERbut I don't know. I'm curious. They that's not available at launch. It comes out in October.

1:17:45SPEAKERYou can answer calls, open notifications, play and pause music all using one hand. So if you're

1:17:49SPEAKERcarrying like groceries or something, you can stop your music and take your call. The bright,

1:17:54SPEAKERthe displays are two times brighter than the, the, uh, I, uh, watch eight screens. That's pretty

1:18:00SPEAKERsubstantial. I think the ultra was super bright last year. Right. So maybe that's trickling down

1:18:05SPEAKERnow and the ultra is even brighter than the nine. It's it's so it's the eight was a thousand nits.

1:18:12SPEAKERThe nine is 2000 nits. The ultra two is 3000 nits. Crazy dude, like as the owner of an extremely

1:18:19SPEAKERbright new television that hits, I believe about 1500 nits. Yeah. I can tell you 1500 nits is

1:18:25SPEAKERuncomfortable to look at for long periods of time. So 3000, I know, I know this is out in the sun,

1:18:31SPEAKERlike there are use cases here, but I was going to say the only time I've ever, I have a seven,

1:18:35SPEAKERI have a watch seven, which is less than a thousand nits. The only time I've had problems

1:18:40SPEAKERseeing it is when we're in the desert in the summertime and it's really insanely bright.

1:18:44SPEAKERYeah. And I'm wearing sunglasses. So like you're like to the, if I'm not wearing, so if I'm

1:18:50SPEAKERwearing normal glasses, it's fine. I can see it. If I'm wearing sunglasses, it can't get bright

1:18:54SPEAKERenough to push through the sunglasses and the ambient light basically. Yeah. That's still nice

1:18:59SPEAKERto have. I don't, I don't have a hard time really seeing mine in the sun either, but that's not the

1:19:04SPEAKERworst thing to have. Yeah. You can, it has a UWB chip, ultra wide band chips. You can do the

1:19:10SPEAKERdirectional find my stuff with it now, like you can with your phone, which means if you can't find

1:19:16SPEAKERyour phone, instead of doing the thing where you hit the button and it makes the phone make the

1:19:19SPEAKERnoise, you can do the thing where it finds the phone by honing it on the radio signals that it

1:19:23SPEAKERsends out, which is nice. And that's pretty much it. The ultra two is the flat face Explorer watch.

1:19:34SPEAKERGigantic watch. Yeah. I think that's, I think I'm going to get that when I replace the seven.

1:19:39SPEAKERI looked at that when I went and when I got the eight last year, I kind of went to see it in

1:19:42SPEAKERperson. I love the flat face, although actually don't mind the kind of bubble face on the regular

1:19:47SPEAKERwatch now that I've had it for a year, almost. I do love the flat face on the ultra. That thing's

1:19:52SPEAKERjust so big though. Like it's a comically big watch face. Do you wear yours to sleep?

1:19:57SPEAKERNo. Okay. See, I wear mine to sleep and I, that's the only thing that's keeping me from getting the,

1:20:02SPEAKERthe, the ultra. Also it was twice the price. That was the other thing. Well, yeah. And you were also

1:20:08SPEAKERunsure whether you'd liked the watch last year. I was just kind of like, Oh, am I going to like

1:20:13SPEAKERthis? Like, I fucking love this watch. Like it is like, has been life-changing in multiple ways

1:20:20SPEAKERin the, in the kind of the exercise and there's all kinds of stuff. It has enabled to be better

1:20:25SPEAKERthan it was. A friend of mine asked me the other day, if the watch was worth it. And I was like,

1:20:30SPEAKERyou know, I will tell you, it is the, like the most quietly convenient, nice thing in my life.

1:20:37SPEAKERYeah. Like I kind of can't believe how many different ways it has come in handy

1:20:41SPEAKERsince I've gotten it. And so like, I have no complaints about the one that is on my wrist

1:20:45SPEAKERright now, but now I'm, I'm looking at the nine thinking like I use this thing so much for so

1:20:49SPEAKERmany things. And should I trade this one in while it still has max trade trade in value? Like that's

1:20:56SPEAKERmy question is like, it's about half the cost you can get about half the cost back. So you get 300

1:21:01SPEAKERbucks basically. It's not quite half, but it's close to half the price of a new one. I don't,

1:21:09SPEAKERI don't know if I'm actually going to do it or not. So I, they offered me 155 bucks on the big

1:21:14SPEAKERApple watch seven aluminum. Okay. I, I, so my strategy on watches is I think I'm going to run

1:21:22SPEAKERthem into the ground. I met like 86% battery life, battery capacity after a year and a half,

1:21:28SPEAKERtwo years now. Can you check health on the watch? Cause you can't on the iPad or at least on my

1:21:32SPEAKERiPad, which I find suspect. Well, I'd be worried about that. But yeah, if you go into if you go

1:21:38SPEAKERinto general battery, there's a battery health option in the watch. Or is that something that

1:21:42SPEAKERolder models just can't track? My, my iPad is not that old. It's the second pro. It's the first

1:21:48SPEAKERno notch one, right? It's the second pro. The last no notch one. Yeah. I think it's the last one.

1:21:52SPEAKERI thought everything has it in the battery health in the, in the general battery, battery health

1:21:56SPEAKERoption. Maybe it's a bug. I don't know when I go to the battery page and settings, there is no

1:22:01SPEAKERbattery health option. Weird. That probably it's probably fine. Sure. If you don't go to the doctor,

1:22:07SPEAKERyour blood pressure is fine. There's no bad blood pressure on your record. I mean, it's like five,

1:22:10SPEAKERsix year old at this point. So it's kind of reaching the end of its lifespan anyway.

1:22:19SPEAKERI was worried, honestly, the thing I was most worried about with the watch aside from battery

1:22:24SPEAKERlife is the scratches on the face. Yeah. Getting to the point that it annoys me and I don't want

1:22:29SPEAKERto deal with it, which is why I kind of like the flat design, but it's not been a problem. And like

1:22:34SPEAKERI said, I'm almost two years in on this watch now. So yeah, like mine's picked up some minor,

1:22:39SPEAKERmostly around the edges. My mom, my mom put a big gash right on her watch face, which will drive me

1:22:44SPEAKERinsane. But mine, mine is just a little micro wear and tear. It's the stuff you see in bright,

1:22:50SPEAKERdirect sun, but not in like a inside. I, I got mine during the, when I had to go to the hospital

1:22:57SPEAKERand I was wearing masks before they had the mask face ID. Cause it was a convenient way to unlock

1:23:01SPEAKERthe phone. And yeah, it's, it is like having not carrying my phone with me the entire time I'm

1:23:10SPEAKERinside the house, but having access to phone and notifications and ability to control like smart

1:23:15SPEAKERhome shit and text my wife and all that is really hyper good. Like I was texting my girlfriend from

1:23:22SPEAKERmy wrist, walking around the house, like with the microphone yesterday, you know, like I don't even

1:23:25SPEAKERhave to go find my phone to respond to that stuff. Like I use it for two factor auth codes, use it,

1:23:31SPEAKERuse it for all the health tracking stuff. I use it. I use Apple pay to buy stuff everywhere by

1:23:35SPEAKERjust waving my wrist now at that point of sale. Like it just does a lot. I always feel self-conscious

1:23:40SPEAKERabout using the watch for that. I use the phone for that. I don't know why. Yeah. Anyway. I'm I'm

1:23:47SPEAKERI am, I ordered a new phone. It's not getting here until November. I'm I may or may not keep,

1:23:51SPEAKERI may cancel that. I don't know. But the rest of it, I I'm holding off on watches. I was,

1:23:58SPEAKERthere were rumors that this was going to be the year they do the big redesign on the Apple watch

1:24:01SPEAKERand you get an entirely new industrial design on it. That is actually, that's the other reason

1:24:06SPEAKERI should maybe hold off. Yeah. So if you're going to do an annual upgrade, then go for it. But

1:24:11SPEAKERI don't, I don't know that I find the watch like the watch is useful and I, I like it and I use it

1:24:17SPEAKERa lot. I don't think it's a thing I need to annually upgrade. I don't think I would actually

1:24:21SPEAKERreally feel any major difference if I got the new one. So I don't think it's probably actually worth

1:24:25SPEAKERit. Yeah. Especially if a, if a actually new design is coming next year. Yeah. That's that's,

1:24:31SPEAKERI'm going to keep holding out for the new design or just get the ultra. But yeah, so that's it.

1:24:36SPEAKERThat's the Apple stuff. That's unity imploding. I feel bad for anybody who's like the big takeaway

1:24:42SPEAKERfrom this week is God, I'm so sorry if you're using unity for something that you've spent time

1:24:46SPEAKERon. That's a rough week. But I think that's, I think that's, I think that'll do an episode for

1:24:53SPEAKERus, Brad. I think you're right. As always, Brad and Will made a tech pod is a 100% listener supported

1:25:01SPEAKERshow. We're we're so kind about this. We don't even say this in the, in the upfront, we don't

1:25:06SPEAKERsay at the beginning, Hey man, this is a, this is a thing. This is a thing that we only make money

1:25:12SPEAKERfrom the people who send us money. We're not, we're not like, you know what we do for you? Yeah,

1:25:16SPEAKERno, no. We're just here just casually doing a podcast then. Oh, by the way. But if you would

1:25:21SPEAKERlike to find out how you can support Brad and I, while we make the show, you can go to patreon.com/techpod.

1:25:28SPEAKERAgain, it's patreon.com/techpod. And if you used to subscribe and you, and you don't, you haven't

1:25:33SPEAKERchecked lately, you might want to go check because we lost a fair number of people when Patreon

1:25:37SPEAKERjacked some stuff up last month, the month before now, maybe. But you can, you can get access to the

1:25:42SPEAKERfabulous tech pod Patreon, the tech pod discord, where you can talk to people about the incredible

1:25:49SPEAKERvariety of topics. It's broader every day. I think we're going to expand the sports section into a

1:25:54SPEAKERsport, the sports channel into sports forum soon so that we can have like all the F1 people off in

1:26:00SPEAKERone section, the college football weirdos can be off in their own space. And I assume somebody will

1:26:05SPEAKERtalk about baseball in there. Like it'll, it'll, and then maybe curling season fires up. I would

1:26:10SPEAKERlove for our Canadian listeners, Canadian and Nordic listeners to get some real hot and heavy

1:26:15SPEAKERcurling action in there. Which they deserve. Yeah. It seems like the, seems like the great

1:26:20SPEAKERforums experiment with this week's episode is going well. I will tell you it is really useful

1:26:26SPEAKERfor me because when I want to do a, Hey, what tips did people submit episode? There's just a nice

1:26:33SPEAKERcollection of them all in one place. So yeah. You can join the discord. You can come hang out

1:26:40SPEAKERwith Brad, with me, with two or 3000 of your favorite people. And you can do that by going

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1:26:52SPEAKERgoing to walk, take a trip down memory lane this week, this this month, maybe, maybe talk about

1:26:57SPEAKERthat new TV. And, and I w I have a lot of questions about Brad's new TV that I'm gonna have to resist

1:27:01SPEAKERasking now. Like you all are suffering. I know we tease the TV. I'm sorry. I'm not going to ask him

1:27:07SPEAKEReither. I'm not going to find out what he did. I'm happy to talk about it. I just didn't want

1:27:11SPEAKERto derail this episode too much. It was kind of a long episode already. So yeah. And, and if you

1:27:17SPEAKERsubscribe at the executive producer here, a level, and we will thank you every single week, starting

1:27:22SPEAKERwith Nick Johnston, Paddle Creek Games, makers of Fractured Veil, Andrew Slosky, Jordan Lippett,

1:27:28SPEAKERBunny Fiend, Whiskey Echo Delta, Gulf Echo 4.0. Oh, that's Wedge 4.0. Joel Krowska, Twinkle Twinkie,

1:27:37SPEAKERDavid Allen, James Kamik, and Pantheon makers of the HS3 high-speed 3d printer. Thank you all so,

1:27:43SPEAKERso much. And yeah. Thanks for listening to the show. Thanks for hanging out. You got a new like

1:27:48SPEAKERout catchphrase. You'd be like podcast out. Oh man. I got nothing. There it is. That's it.

1:28:00SPEAKERI got nothing. See you all next week. Thanks for listening to everybody.