195: In Our Bendy Phone Era

00:00SPEAKEROkay, Brad. I cleaned my coffee grinder yesterday. Uh-huh. Okay. No, I

00:06SPEAKERI

00:07SPEAKERWas like after the coffee episode somebody talked about cleaning their grinder in the discord and I was like, oh I should clean my grinder

00:13SPEAKERI haven't done that in ever and I've had the grinder for like 12 or 13 years now, okay

00:20SPEAKERSo I opened it up and I went to the Baratza YouTube channel and there was the the people from their tech support

00:27SPEAKERChannel have a they like they do YouTube videos about how to maintain their products and they had a little thing there behind the behind

00:32SPEAKERThem that was like fix it. Don't don't toss it like a little banner. I was like, that's a okay

00:37SPEAKERThis is a this is a company. I really like

00:40SPEAKERand they walked me through the whole process and

00:43SPEAKERLike I found a I was like I took the burrs out and I cleaned them off

00:47SPEAKERI got the air blaster that I used to clean out the PC and the vacuum cleaner and all that stuff and blasted all the

00:52SPEAKERcoffee dust off and

00:54SPEAKERI got to this the part of the video where they were like hey and there's a brush that we provide and I looked at

00:59SPEAKERAnd I was like, oh wait, I know that brush. That's that's been in my drawer for the last 10 years

01:02SPEAKERI didn't know what it went with so I got the brush and and I anyway the coffee makers all clean

01:08SPEAKERand I got to the end of this video this kind of long video and

01:12SPEAKERThey were like and by the way, if you need to do a deep clean on the grinder

01:16SPEAKERDon't use water on the burrs or whatever. You want them to stay nice and dry so they don't collect coffee

01:21SPEAKERNecessarily you buy these these pods these little pucks that you put in the coffee grinder and they're like food safe

01:29SPEAKERlike a food safe dry cleaner that gets in there and and and cleans off the oils and stuff from the burrs and

01:36SPEAKERThey're called grinds with a Z, of course, because it's for Millennials. I guess I don't know because they're extreme

01:43SPEAKERyeah, and and then I went to Amazon to purchase these and I discovered an entirely new product category as a

01:51SPEAKERresult

01:52SPEAKERthere's a company called grinds with a one instead of an eye with an S that makes a

02:00SPEAKERMouth tobacco substitute that uses ground coffee in like dip pouches

02:06SPEAKERWhy it's and I'm gonna tell you I'm kind of interested

02:11SPEAKERTry it. I'm never good. That sounds awful, but you should try it they

02:16SPEAKERThey they sell it in cans just like your mouth tobacco

02:19SPEAKEROkay, first off if you're listening to this at home and you're curious about mouth tobacco mouth tobacco

02:25SPEAKERBrad and I both grew up in areas where a mouth tobacco was prevalent like resident

02:29SPEAKERYeah, there was an entire subculture in my high school of people who found novel ways to dip

02:35SPEAKERwhile in class

02:37SPEAKERfrowned upon

02:40SPEAKERIt causes all sorts of dental problems and mouth problems. Oh, it's awful

02:44SPEAKERI'm sure that this is also bad for you for a whole host of other reasons. I don't know

02:48SPEAKERDon't shoot tobacco. It is it does not end. Well, but this is

02:53SPEAKERThis is coffee pouches. It's just coffee. No flavors or sweeteners. I mean, they also have ones that have flavors and sweeteners

03:01SPEAKERThat just sits in your mouth and the review comments are like definitely helping me quit Copenhagen

03:08SPEAKERLoves this flavor keeps me awake behind the wheel after a 12-hour night shift

03:13SPEAKERThis has made me a lot easier for me to stop using tobacco after 40 years of smokeless tobacco

03:18SPEAKERI was worried I couldn't like like

03:20SPEAKERThis isn't a this isn't a sponsor bit. I had no idea that this was a thing

03:24SPEAKERIt seems like there's an upside to this

03:25SPEAKERIt also seems like it might be popular with truckers or there's some potential there

03:29SPEAKERWell, so each pouch is equal to a half cup of coffee and you're supposed to keep them in there for like an hour

03:35SPEAKERThey look kind of icky. I

03:38SPEAKERDon't know man. I am I am I'm not gonna look I'm not gonna this state seems like forbidden fruit to me

03:46SPEAKERBut as a public service if you like chewing tobacco and would like to not like doing tobacco anymore

03:53SPEAKERMaybe try the coffee pouches. I don't know

03:55SPEAKERI think you look I have often described this show as a science and technology podcast to people who ask and I think that I

04:02SPEAKERThink it's time for you to do this for science. I gotta do some science

04:16SPEAKER[Music]

04:35SPEAKERWelcome to Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod. I'm Will. I'm Brad. I am Latent Brad. I'm on the other coast. We are

04:43SPEAKERFighting a losing battle against latency. Slow Brad can't defeat the speed of light

04:49SPEAKERThis week we have a returning guest our dear friend Wesley Fenlon who is a senior writer at PC

04:56SPEAKERGamer and PC gamer.com. They still make print over there. They still make magazines. Wow

05:02SPEAKERYeah

05:02SPEAKERAnd earlier this year started a new newsletter that focuses on like what's going on in the emulations like not just the em all the

05:09SPEAKERemulation scenes for games

05:11SPEAKERCalled read-only memo is on the show this week to talk about flip phones. Welcome to the show Wes

05:20SPEAKERWes welcome to the show. We're so glad to have you here and I want to hear about your bendy phone

05:25SPEAKERBut first I want to talk can we talk about your newsletter a little bit before we before we go there? Oh my god

05:29SPEAKERWell, what what an opportunity I would love to

05:32SPEAKERThank you for having me back. I'm aiming to be like the SNL Alec Baldwin guest guest appear on on the podcast

05:40SPEAKERThis is my three-peat I think well right now. It's you and Kishore

05:43SPEAKERI think are tied for the for the first place spot, but Kishore is always the bearer of bad news

05:49SPEAKERAnd and you're always bringing something cool that we haven't looked at yet

05:53SPEAKERSo just keep spending money on cool tech stuff. We had some fun science news last time at least. Oh, that's true

05:58SPEAKERYeah, last time it wasn't. Oh, yo, the world might be ending this year last time

06:02SPEAKERIt was you know, the world is definitely gonna end in like a hundred million years a hundred billion years

06:07SPEAKERSee we got time. But anyway, I

06:10SPEAKERWas you you're I mean everybody knows you from your work at PC gamer, but you kicked off a

06:15SPEAKERNewsletter last year now. Yeah, it's been it was like earlier this year

06:19SPEAKERI've been writing about emulation that PC gamer for for years

06:24SPEAKERlargely focused on like the dolphin emulator, which I'm a huge fan of which does the GameCube and and we

06:29SPEAKERBut yeah, I wrote about a lot for PC gamer, but it's such a niche interest that like isn't always kind of mainstream

06:36SPEAKERNews, you know breaking news kind of stuff that I was like, I just want to do this more and kind of have my own

06:42SPEAKERThing going on the side

06:43SPEAKERSo I spun up a newsletter called read only memo which I've been doing since like March of this year

06:49SPEAKERAnd I'm just kind of like rounding up

06:50SPEAKERHere's the cool stuff that's happened in the last two weeks in emulation and it's given me a really good excuse to meet a ton

06:56SPEAKERof people in that community like going out to the developers and

07:01SPEAKERIt's easy to track people down on discord or via github or something. And usually they're really excited to talk about

07:08SPEAKERWhatever they're working on and so it's fun to ask people about just some random patch that they did that fixed

07:13SPEAKERYou know a funny graphical bug in a game or I talked to the briefly talked with the person who's like started up a ps4

07:21SPEAKEREmulator recently, which is like grown really really quickly. So I don't know there's there's tons of interesting stuff going on

07:27SPEAKERIt's hard to keep a tabs on all of it. Well, yeah, it's I mean just I have a mystery

07:31SPEAKERIt's sitting here my desk that I haven't updated in about six months and I'm I kind of don't know like I'm I'm thinking I'm going

07:36SPEAKERTo declare mr. Bankruptcy to

07:39SPEAKERAnd start fresh from it

07:41SPEAKERIt's but it's been it's been a great resource

07:44SPEAKERI enjoy it and and

07:45SPEAKERLike the stuff that you've been writing you've been writing about this for like ten years at this point because I think the first thing

07:49SPEAKERYou did it. One of the first things you did it tested was a beastness or

07:53SPEAKERArticle. Yeah, I'm glad you remember that I interviewed near rest in peace former emulator developers incredible

08:00SPEAKERAnd they were really dedicated to like the preservation side of emulation and the reason they made

08:07SPEAKERBSNES was they looked at other Super Nintendo emulators, which worked perfectly fine could play games

08:12SPEAKERbut they weren't accurate to the hardware down to

08:16SPEAKERthat you know crazy degree that only a few emulator developers really really really care about and

08:23SPEAKERYou know near spent like ten years or something making that emulator be able to play

08:29SPEAKEREvery single mahjong game on the Super NES that had like a weird custom chip in it

08:34SPEAKERYou know and just making everything as perfect as it could be this was such a loss

08:38SPEAKERThey were such a prolific figure in that scene

08:40SPEAKERI wish I could remember what the specific example is here

08:43SPEAKERBut I was looking at something on archive word recently that had nothing to do with any of the projects that I knew they had

08:47SPEAKERWorked on mmm. It was like some disk image. It was something preservation related. I died. I should go try to find it

08:53SPEAKERAnd even the point is I go look at the description on on the archive page dear had developed it

08:58SPEAKERSomething yeah, not related to business or any of the other high-profile stuff. They had done

09:02SPEAKERIt's just they they were just all over the place

09:04SPEAKERYeah, and you're even chipped in on the mother 3 like fan translation a little bit had some involvement with a development of that

09:11SPEAKERYeah, like their their name really popped up all over the place

09:14SPEAKERbut but you know there's lots of other really smart crazy talented people in the the emulation scene who I

09:20SPEAKEREnjoy talking to and trying to like raise their profiles a little bit

09:23SPEAKERAnd they tell me a whole bunch of technical stuff, and I understand like 10% of it

09:28SPEAKERBut I do my best to translate it into normal English

09:33SPEAKERThere you go, but today. We're not gonna talk about games. We're gonna talk about

09:38SPEAKERWell, I mean you when you come you often bring some sort of novel technology something new and exciting

09:44SPEAKERWe're gonna talk about bendy phones

09:47SPEAKERBendy phones flipping phones. Yeah, flippy phones so for people who don't know

09:53SPEAKERWhich I assume are mostly iPhone people because the Android people seem to be fairly in the know

09:57SPEAKERThere's a bunch of phones on the market around the world in the u.s.. It seems like it's mostly Samsung and Motorola that are doing yeah

10:05SPEAKERphones that bend

10:07SPEAKERBut but yeah, and we have a couple like Adam over at PC world is a noted noted

10:12SPEAKERBendy phone aficionado

10:14SPEAKERHe's gone with the with the with the wide boy rather than the tall boy

10:19SPEAKERBut yeah

10:19SPEAKERThey come in two shapes basically is from what I can tell one is the is the the normal looking phone that opens up

10:25SPEAKERAnd it becomes a big square. It's kind of a tablet phones. Yeah, yeah in each other mm-hmm

10:30SPEAKERYeah, but those have a screen on the outside so you like when you when you take out of your pocket

10:35SPEAKERYou have a normal phone, but then if you open it up you have a double wide phone basically

10:39SPEAKERBut the one that I think is interesting to me is the one that you you are now on your second rev of I think

10:45SPEAKERWest right yes, yeah, I'd so I just this week got the galaxy z flip 5

10:51SPEAKERWhich is the sequel to the z flip 4 which I got back in like November. I think I bought it around Black Friday

10:58SPEAKERSo I spent you know a good chunk of the last year using it as my my main

11:04SPEAKERMy only phone basically, and then I just upgraded to this one because Samsung offers crazy good trade-in

11:11SPEAKERValues on their their old flip phones. I think they just really want people to keep

11:16SPEAKERInvesting in in this I guess this ecosystem or whatever you want to call it to keep people hooked

11:21SPEAKERSo did you buy the first one is it like you bought on bought you said you bought on my life like Friday?

11:25SPEAKERYou but it is to dip your toes in yeah

11:27SPEAKERI am I've been thinking about it since I think really since they put out the first flip

11:33SPEAKERAnd I don't remember what that first generation cost, but I think it was at least 1200 if it was really expensive

11:38SPEAKERYeah, and I was like okay looks cool. I'm into this idea

11:43SPEAKERFirst gen is never the right time to buy in right

11:47SPEAKERSo I waited and then the second gen came out

11:51SPEAKERWhich was the z flip 3 they just skipped a number for for some reason. I think to keep it parity with the the folds

11:57SPEAKERMarketing and that one was like I can't if they lowered the price for that one, but they were getting the the kind of performance

12:04SPEAKERUp a little bit the first generation did not have a screen on the outside at all it had none of that kind of

12:11SPEAKERBonus functionality, and I think the battery life was really bad

12:14SPEAKERSo anyway they finally added a little small screen and then with the flip for which was the one that I jumped in on they

12:21SPEAKERadded kind of a

12:23SPEAKERLittle bigger than a postage stamp kind of a small like 1.5 inch 1.9 inch little screen

12:30SPEAKERThat was like enough where you could read a text message. You could change your Spotify

12:35SPEAKERYou know music you could get you know a little notification or two on there

12:41SPEAKERYou could even read an email by scrolling through it took a while

12:45SPEAKERBut it kind of added enough of that functionality, and they lowered the price down to a thousand that I was like okay

12:50SPEAKERThis is the one to jump in on especially when I can get a nice Black Friday deal on it. Yeah

12:55SPEAKERYeah, and it's so like that outside screen is interesting because it means you don't have to open it every time you want to

13:01SPEAKERUse it yeah, and that I was really attracted to that idea of kind of still being able to use my phone

13:06SPEAKERBut not like fully using my phone that makes sense well

13:11SPEAKERThere's something like there's something conceptually interesting to me about having to do something mechanical

13:16SPEAKERTo engage with the phone versus just like seeing sitting on the table and being like oh, man. That's my favorite thing in the world

13:22SPEAKERI'm gonna pick that up and look at it for a while, and then next thing

13:25SPEAKERI know plates both slay the spire for two hours. Yeah

13:28SPEAKERWhat um?

13:30SPEAKERIt's interesting because like these these came out a few years ago the first the first ones that I think the

13:35SPEAKERFold was the first the was the first started with a fold and the first version of it

13:40SPEAKERThey sent to reviewers infamously was like breaking in half when when they were folding it well

13:46SPEAKERYeah, and they had all sorts like I remember there was a whole wave of bad press around it because like they also had the thing

13:51SPEAKERthere's a piece of very thin glass that looks almost like a

13:55SPEAKERalmost like a like a screen protector like like the kind of

13:58SPEAKERPlastic thing that you peel off of your suit your phone when you get it. It's new and a bunch of reviewers

14:03SPEAKERImmediately ripped that off, and it was absolutely not supposed to be removed and yeah

14:08SPEAKERLet me let me stop before we get too much deeper in because I have a question of nomenclature

14:12SPEAKEROr maybe a philosophy of these phones would you say that are these phones because we've used the terms bendy phone flip phone here kind

14:19SPEAKERof interchangeably

14:20SPEAKERBut are these phones like a throwback to actual flip phone nostalgia from 15-plus years ago, or are they like an outgrowth of smartphones?

14:29SPEAKERThat can now you know be folded up and protected in your pocket like I think

14:34SPEAKERthe flip for me is

14:37SPEAKERDefinitely banking on a nostalgia factor. I mean I mean part of the reason these things exist is because Motorola has like made a push

14:44SPEAKERFor them right they brought back the razor

14:46SPEAKERBranding and the first Motorola flip even had the chin from the old

14:52SPEAKERRazor do you remember the the razor chance so well? That's where the battery went that's that's how that's why that thing lasted seven days

14:59SPEAKERWest I missed I missed that era, but yeah

15:02SPEAKERThey they've unfortunately kind of moved away from that that aesthetic with their flip phones and now they're kind of already getting to that point

15:09SPEAKERWhere they all look the same, but I think the folds were a bit more in that sort of just

15:14SPEAKERWhat is the next tech evolution we can do to?

15:18SPEAKERYou know entice people into to buying these phones because obviously there's some appeal in

15:24SPEAKERHaving a phone that's now your tablet, so you don't need to buy a phone and a tablet right

15:29SPEAKERI think that was they were definitely going for the high-end like techies who who liked that but the flips

15:34SPEAKERI feel like have been a bit more of an aesthetic push for at least for Samsung could could you just like really quick?

15:41SPEAKERCharacterize what the the full-size screen looks like when it's fully open because like I am so far behind on phone tech that I just

15:47SPEAKERAssumed flippy phones like this still had hit like visible hinges and told the screen and that you have like

15:52SPEAKERTwo little screens on the inside so when I saw an animation of this thing

15:55SPEAKERI was like, oh you open the thing up and it's kind of just looks like a tall smartphone like is

15:59SPEAKEROnce it's fully open can you tell like a tall tall phone?

16:05SPEAKERThere's this is one of the interesting distinctions in this space is the the hinge, right?

16:09SPEAKERLike there's a bunch of different people making these flippy phones. Most of them are not available in the US though

16:15SPEAKERbut that like there's a bunch of Chinese phone makers that are

16:19SPEAKERExperimenting with different hinge types different ways the glass folds and Samsung has been getting some crap over the last year for how

16:27SPEAKERMuch of a crease their screen still had in them compared to these other companies that have been really rapidly

16:33SPEAKERiterating on that but when you open it up, it's basically like a

16:37SPEAKER21 by 9 ish

16:40SPEAKERVertical aspect ratio, so they're pretty tall and skinny and then in the center

16:45SPEAKERYou just have a small dip where you can feel where the crease is in the phone where it bends the Z Flip 5

16:53SPEAKERMost people were talking about it as though it was exactly the same as the the Flip 4 on initial impressions

17:00SPEAKERBut for me, it's been a noticeably

17:03SPEAKERLighter dip shallower dip than the the previous gen just getting more pronounced over time

17:09SPEAKERI think it does but I feel pretty confident in saying that it's shallower than my Flip 4 was when I got it

17:18SPEAKERWe'll see you after six months or a year. Do you like?

17:23SPEAKERThis I'm asking a thing for my own personal neuroses, but you feel like

17:27SPEAKERLike when you pick up your phone, do you think oh man, I shouldn't open this. I don't

17:32SPEAKERIt's not actually that important to open my phone right now

17:34SPEAKERI have a limited number of folds on this thing

17:36SPEAKEROr is it just like you don't worry about it after a couple a couple of days. I will say that I have that thought

17:42SPEAKERI don't think it ever stops me from opening it but there is that like tiny voice

17:47SPEAKERParanoia voice in the back of my mind. That's like well, I have you know, 200 300 thousand flips

17:53SPEAKERI'm able to do in my life. Like should I be you know?

17:58SPEAKERLike there was one that I opened it and then close it again two seconds later. Like that was a that was a waste

18:05SPEAKERIt's not it's not like the air pod case where it's like so satisfying to open and click and open and click and open and click

18:11SPEAKERSorry, listen, it's more like your heart. You only have so many heartbeats in a lifetime. Yeah

18:17SPEAKERThe answer to this question may just be lol who talks on the phone anymore

18:21SPEAKERBut do you have to open it all the way up to make an actual phone call or are there like voice comms you can?

18:25SPEAKERDo with it in the closed state, you know, I think you can I think you can do it when it's open

18:31SPEAKERI mean or when it's closed. Sorry, I certainly if you're on like a Bluetooth, you know headphones or something like that

18:36SPEAKERI actually can't remember off the top of my head the last time I

18:40SPEAKERYeah took a phone call and whether I was able to do it with it when it was closed or not

18:45SPEAKERBut this one they've added more functionality to the outer screen now

18:49SPEAKERSo I think I'm like 99% sure you you are able to do that

18:54SPEAKERYeah

18:55SPEAKERI was gonna say the big jump from four to five seems to be that the outer screen went from being like a little tiny

19:00SPEAKERScreen next to the camera to like the full top of the phone in the back now, right?

19:05SPEAKERYeah, and what kind of like what can you just run full ass Android apps on that now?

19:11SPEAKEROr does it require some sort of special interface? Yeah, it's sort of a complicated answer

19:14SPEAKERBy default the outer screen has a selection of widgets you can use for it the stuff you would kind of expect right your your calendar

19:23SPEAKERMusic alarms all of that whether a queue either. Yeah. Yeah

19:28SPEAKERNow Sam's now razor just lets you run any app on that external screen on their newest one

19:34SPEAKERAnd that was like a big plus for them

19:36SPEAKERPeople were really happy with that and the screen was big enough on that thing that you really could use a lot of apps

19:42SPEAKERPretty effectively on the outer screen Samsung by default doesn't let you do that. They have added a

19:48SPEAKERApp launcher feature of like approved apps that of everything I had installed on my phone

19:55SPEAKERI could literally use like Google Maps and text messages and those are the only things under that approved list

20:02SPEAKERNot a great list, but Samsung has an app called good luck. That's kind of there like Android

20:09SPEAKERExperimentation app with a bunch of like launcher features and a bunch of other stuff

20:14SPEAKERtheming and that includes a function that lets you just put any

20:19SPEAKERApp on to the cover screen launcher. So they're kind of making you be a bit more of a tinkerer to be able to enable this

20:25SPEAKERI guess they don't want people to like

20:27SPEAKERAccidentally have a bad experience, but they're like if you want to have a bad experience or potentially a good experience

20:33SPEAKERJust add whatever app you want through this app and then go to town. So I've been playing around with that

20:40SPEAKERSo do they scale like is it like you get like a narrow like a normal phone aspect ratio app on that square screen?

20:47SPEAKEROr is it like stretch to fit or is it apps are like stretched stretch to fit into kind of the this?

20:54SPEAKERSquare format and then on this phone, you know

20:57SPEAKERIt's it's basically like a four by three outer display or maybe it's a I guess it's a square outer display with a little extra

21:05SPEAKERKind of card little notch at the bottom is like I have not straight

21:09SPEAKERYeah, it kind of goes around the camera and that dip is actually really nice

21:13SPEAKERIt's where the you know, swipe up to hide

21:18SPEAKERSwipe up to go back to your like home screen kind of menu

21:22SPEAKERLive so you swipe up from that little corner if you want to, you know change apps or whatever

21:26SPEAKERBut yeah

21:26SPEAKERmost apps kind of just form to the square screen and some apps just work on that and then some the layout like really cannot

21:34SPEAKERHandle a small square screen and they just look really bad

21:37SPEAKERCan you can you like can you scroll through notifications and stuff like that on that on that small screen?

21:43SPEAKERYeah, totally you can go you go over to the left from the home screen and you just have all your notifications there

21:50SPEAKERAnd of course they let you customize your lock your clock and all that stuff

21:54SPEAKERIf you if you tap like if you activate a notification on the small screen, does it like buffer that activation?

21:59SPEAKERSo you then open the phone and it goes to the thing. You just helped is it smart enough to remember that? That's cool

22:04SPEAKERYeah, yeah

22:04SPEAKERIf you if you open and some things you'll click on and it'll be like, okay open your phone now and it'll take you to

22:10SPEAKERThat thing. Yeah, is there like a little homebrew scene for that screen?

22:14SPEAKERI mean, I guess every model has a different screen. So it would be hard to standardize against but I mean are people

22:19SPEAKERDoom to it, I guess burning doom on it is the cliche example

22:22SPEAKERBut I mean are there like goofy weird homebrew uses for it?

22:25SPEAKERSo when I got the galaxy flip for I messed around a little bit with an app called I believe cover OS

22:32SPEAKERWhich is developed by one person and it is absolutely what you're talking about

22:36SPEAKERIt's the like superpower launcher for this cover screen

22:41SPEAKEREven with that tiny screen on the previous phone. This app was letting you run full full applications on it if you wanted

22:49SPEAKERCustomize it like crazy do a ton of stuff that Samsung wouldn't let you do but it had a pretty expensive

22:57SPEAKERModel like the free version you couldn't really do much of anything on it

23:00SPEAKERAnd then the paid version had a bunch of tiers like you want to pay for it for a year?

23:05SPEAKERDo you want to pay for it for life? Do you want to pay for it for life?

23:08SPEAKERBut only for this phone do you want to pay for it for life for all the phones in the future that you buy?

23:13SPEAKERAnd I kind of had in my head that I was probably gonna upgrade to the next year's flip

23:19SPEAKERWhich I've now done and I figured that one's probably gonna go to like a full-size outer screen. So I decided to not spend the

23:27SPEAKER15 bucks or whatever it would have cost me to buy that app and like go crazy with the

23:33SPEAKERCustomization and this one I think you're not gonna need as much homebrew scene

23:38SPEAKERDevelopment to be able to do stuff on this outer screen. I think Samsung will keep doing updates for it

23:43SPEAKERAnd I'm hoping that more apps start moving towards having better compatibility with these kind of small

23:50SPEAKERSmall screens and so it'll become less and less of a need over time. I think for those homebrew fixes

23:57SPEAKERYeah, I assume I mean since Google

23:59SPEAKERlaunched the fold

24:01SPEAKERAnd they're doing the tablet size, you know, the the tall that make then they get square and announced that earlier this year. I

24:11SPEAKERLike I assume that there's support for the you know, the essentially three screen interface on that thing

24:17SPEAKERBuilt into Android going forward, but I wondered like I assume there's no

24:22SPEAKERAndroid level support for the for the for the front small screen on on your phone

24:28SPEAKERUnless maybe it just works itself out because I guess it is still three screens

24:31SPEAKERyeah, I think it's the

24:34SPEAKERKind of interplay between them I think is at this point still just driven by Samsung programming some of its own stuff into

24:41SPEAKERone UI but the

24:44SPEAKERThe launcher that lets you just put any app on the cover screen has been an interesting

24:48SPEAKERExperiment for me to see what stuff can just run at you know

24:52SPEAKERa square resolution pretty well and it's like I would say it's like a decently high percentage of apps and then

24:58SPEAKERYou know like Google Maps works quite well on this this little screen

25:03SPEAKERBut then there's other ones I ran into like the cache app where it expected you to have, you know

25:08SPEAKERKind of more of the traditional vertical candy bar format for its number pad and then it's little bit at the top

25:14SPEAKERAnd so the number pad was squished into like the most tiny little, you know sandwich horizontal number pad

25:21SPEAKERThat's like completely unusable. So it's not perfect for sure

25:25SPEAKERWhat's the what's the ambient info on that screen? Like when when your phone's in like the idle sleep state?

25:31SPEAKERIt has an always-on display if you want to use that so you can get your your clock and stuff

25:36SPEAKERYou can really customize what you put on that screen

25:40SPEAKERSo the way I have it right now is kind of more focused on the the imagery they let you put animated gifs on there

25:47SPEAKERWhich I really like

25:49SPEAKERSo I've got like a bunch of like character sprites and like fighting game backgrounds that just kind of lightly

25:55SPEAKERAnimate on there, but you can get your battery percentage. You can get your clock your

26:00SPEAKERCamera widget if you want to click, you know to launch straight into the camera

26:03SPEAKERYou can swipe over to the side to see your your notifications

26:08SPEAKERLet me look at what else they let you put on the

26:11SPEAKERpictures while it's like assume you can take pictures while it's closed right you can

26:15SPEAKERI don't know if you can take a picture when it's fully closed

26:18SPEAKERI guess you I guess you can you could just kind of hold it up and

26:23SPEAKERYeah, you can just like take a take a selfie with it closed

26:26SPEAKERBut the kind of more ideal use for that is when you like flip it up

26:31SPEAKERYou know and like prop it put it kind of in its L-shape

26:35SPEAKERFormat and prop it up on a table or something so that you can then use the outer display as like a selfie

26:41SPEAKERPreview basically. I noticed that L-shape on the product page on Samsung site. They have at least a couple of shots of it

26:48SPEAKERIn that configuration is is there any kind of facility at all for it locking into that kind of shape or do you like?

26:53SPEAKERI said you have to prop it you you it'll really I mean it doesn't lock but it's quite

26:59SPEAKERQuite stiff quite firm when you put it in a position so it'll pretty much stay at any

27:05SPEAKEROrientation or any angle that you put it at it'll it'll pretty much sit there so you don't really have to do

27:11SPEAKERIt it's not too fiddly like it's pretty easy to just kind of put it where you want

27:14SPEAKERIt's like an infinity hinge right where it where it locks it where it where you can set it at any point along the distance

27:20SPEAKEROh, yeah, that's what it looked like so some of the other cover screen options

27:24SPEAKERDepending on what you want on there. You can just have it like show you a gallery of your your recent photos

27:29SPEAKERYou can just stick that on there

27:32SPEAKERYou can have the calendar

27:34SPEAKERShow like show you what day it is you can have a little weather widget if you want to see what the temperature is outside

27:40SPEAKERI think that's kind of it for the default

27:44SPEAKERThat's the kind of like

27:46SPEAKERIt's about what you would expect yeah

27:48SPEAKERLike I want I want whether an AQI and my next appointment and maybe a way to open the camera app or the flashlight. Yeah

27:55SPEAKERI asked last last question on that L shape are there any Nintendo DS?

28:01SPEAKEREmulators that are aware of the split there that can put the screens in the right place

28:05SPEAKERI haven't messed around with DS stuff, but it's on my list to do

28:08SPEAKERBut I have played wave race blue storm on the exterior screen

28:13SPEAKERWhich did not go well because I was using the touchscreen to try to drive super monkey ball

28:18SPEAKERSurprisingly playable on the on the little screen, but I ran into a weird

28:22SPEAKERI don't know if it's a bug or or what with

28:25SPEAKERThis particular with Samsung's one UI or with Android or what where I synced a Xbox controller to at Bluetooth

28:32SPEAKERController works fine when the phones open when you close the phone

28:35SPEAKERAnalog sticks still read and the analog triggers still read but the digital face buttons a bxy start etc

28:43SPEAKERWill not send their commands through to the phone and I googled this and like it is a thing people have brought up

28:49SPEAKERBut most people say oh go disable something in accessibility settings

28:53SPEAKERAnd then it'll work that there was nothing in accessibility settings for me to disable that was causing a problem, so I couldn't figure it out

29:00SPEAKERWeird yeah, that's that's it's like they turn off. I mean I assume that when you when you close it

29:06SPEAKERThey turn off a subsystem of hardware that feels like a must be yeah

29:12SPEAKERWhat's that with the extra screen on the back? I wonder what's the battery life like Wes? It's like it's

29:17SPEAKERIt's okay. It's pretty good

29:19SPEAKEROkay, I think the if you're opening the screen and using it you know full-size screen like it's a bright

29:25SPEAKEROLED it puts off a lot of light. It's 120 Hertz screen, but it can do the you know 1 Hertz thing

29:31SPEAKERIf you're not scrolling yeah, it's it's fine. It gets me through the day. I'm not like a super heavy user

29:38SPEAKERI don't watch a ton of video on my phone. I've never had the phone die on me

29:44SPEAKERWith the flip for like I never hit zero before I got to a charger and like it can fast charge

29:49SPEAKERQuite quickly up to you know whatever 70% or something

29:54SPEAKERSo it hasn't been an issue for me

29:55SPEAKERBut if you're like a really heavy user

29:57SPEAKERAnd you're the kind of person who goes for like I'm gonna buy the XL phone every year because I want that extra battery life

30:03SPEAKERThis is definitely gonna be a struggle phone for you probably yeah

30:08SPEAKERlike I'm

30:09SPEAKERIt's my pattern was often that like I'd be fine when I'm sitting my desk cuz I'm sitting my desk in front of an enormous

30:15SPEAKERComputer and I don't use the phone that much and then when I go to like e3 or CES or something

30:20SPEAKERAnd I'm using my phone for 10 hours 14 hours a day, but I'd have to start carrying batteries and and

30:27SPEAKERLike the nice thing about the big the big modern giant super slab phones is that they're all battery and and like

30:34SPEAKERYou know I get two days on my iPhone usually these days

30:37SPEAKERYeah

30:38SPEAKERI think one one advantage of this model having the bigger screen on the exterior now is that is gonna draw more power than the

30:45SPEAKERLittle screen did but it gives you so much more you can do on the little screen without opening the phone

30:50SPEAKERWhich is obviously gonna draw away way more power than using the outer screen that I think once you build that use habit

30:58SPEAKERthe battery life on this thing could potentially be

31:01SPEAKERFantastic if you're using it on the the outside two-thirds of the time

31:05SPEAKERThat makes sense

31:08SPEAKERWhat about okay, so you had the four for about eight nine months yeah?

31:14SPEAKERHow did it age during that time was there any weird stuff that happened it aged well up until the last month or so?

31:21SPEAKERWhere so that it's the the way the screen works is it's this really thin flexible glass right and then they put a screen

31:27SPEAKERProtector on top of that that you are not supposed to remove that screen protector is there to keep the screen from?

31:33SPEAKERBreaking or getting forward getting particles in there and whatnot right about a month ago

31:40SPEAKERThe corner of the screen protector in the crease in the middle one side

31:45SPEAKERStarted to kind of heal up on me a little bit and like get an air bubble under there

31:50SPEAKERWhich was quite visually obnoxious like it didn't damage the phone, but it looking at it. I was like

31:56SPEAKERPissed off every time they'd be crazy

31:58SPEAKERI saw it, and I would kind of push my finger over it and it would you know press back down and then

32:03SPEAKERYou know pop back up

32:05SPEAKERBut Samsung does give you a free screen protector replacement within the first year so if I was keeping that phone

32:13SPEAKERI would have probably gone to

32:15SPEAKERWherever they do service stuff and gotten that replaced before I hit the year mark

32:20SPEAKERBut otherwise it was fine like I didn't have any you know battery life didn't take a massive nose dive

32:27SPEAKERThe screen held up pretty pretty well other than that little

32:33SPEAKERCover cover issue, so yeah, I didn't really have any complaints

32:37SPEAKERAnd was oh, I was just say was that was that screen protector replacement is the screen protector plastic

32:42SPEAKERI think it's a glass. Yeah, it might be glass. I think it's a plastic screen protector though

32:48SPEAKERAnd and I assume that they have like someplace local you could just go and have that done and not have to like send it

32:54SPEAKERAway, or something so I didn't I didn't look it up

32:56SPEAKERBut I mean Samsung has it has such a big presence here that I feel like in the u.s.

33:01SPEAKERI mean I feel like they must have service centers your eyes authorized yeah people so

33:07SPEAKERYeah, I kind of was just living with it for a while

33:10SPEAKERSo I'm sorry if you've mentioned this what kind of display is it is it a letter LCD. It's an OLED yep

33:15SPEAKEROkay, it's it's kind of a classic Samsung OLED gets gets mega bright gets pretty dim at night

33:23SPEAKERActually too dim. It's like really hard to see even in the dark if you if you turn on the extra dim option

33:30SPEAKERIt's roughly 21 by 9. I think it's slightly more vertical than that, but it's nice for watching

33:37SPEAKERYou know a 70 millimeter movie or something that that was shot in that that ultra wide aspect ratio

33:43SPEAKERSo so you like you've been you mentioned that the big glass cover is a single pane of glass that folds

33:48SPEAKERBut is the screen also a single OLED screen that folds or is it actually technically - it's one screen

33:54SPEAKERWow really one really thin piece of glass that glass screen that folds yeah, but like the OLED as well

34:00SPEAKERI didn't realize all that's themselves were foldable at this point. Yeah, that was the big

34:05SPEAKERinnovation with these phones and also the reason why that initial fold model was was breaking on people because they

34:12SPEAKERHadn't quite nailed the the flexible glass yet

34:15SPEAKERThey thought they had nailed it

34:16SPEAKERBut they needed another generation or two to get to the point where they weren't cracking in the middle

34:21SPEAKERI think there's maybe still some issues with that over time

34:26SPEAKERLike if you if I flip this phone a couple hundred thousand times the glass will probably eventually break in the center

34:33SPEAKERBut hopefully that doesn't happen before I'm ready to upgrade to a new phone

34:38SPEAKERSee according to my iPhone. I pick up the phone about 40 times a day

34:44SPEAKERAnd

34:46SPEAKERLet's see that means

34:49SPEAKERThink it's rated for 200,000. Oh, yeah, or so

34:52SPEAKERI have I have a I have a good number of years on the the phone the phone battery will die

34:57SPEAKERWell before I crack the screen and if the rating holds hang on, where do you where do you get your pickups - I?

35:02SPEAKERNeed to put in the same time. It's one of the things that yells at you about every week

35:06SPEAKERSo I have I have a question for for you to being

35:09SPEAKERLongtime iPhone users. Well, I know you've you've dabbled in an Android, right?

35:15SPEAKERLike when I was working a test it I would switch back and forth pretty much every other year

35:18SPEAKERBut I don't know are you do you find the novelty of this enticing at all?

35:23SPEAKERWould you or do you think you would get a flip phone if Apple made one or do you feel like?

35:29SPEAKERYeah, I don't know. Where are you guys at on iPhone versus Android and flip appeal right now. So so my

35:36SPEAKEROne of the things when you're in a long-term relationship and have a kid is you get pretty locked into whichever phone your partner has

35:43SPEAKERYeah

35:45SPEAKERLike when I when the iPhone 10 came out was the last time I bought a bird know the tennis

35:50SPEAKERSo that would have been like 2016 or 2017

35:53SPEAKERI bought a pixel that year and I lasted maybe two months and Gina was like, hey, man

35:58SPEAKERI'm you're not getting group text messages. I think a lot of these problems are solved now just to be clear, but

36:04SPEAKERthe group text message problem was enough that I was like missing shit and

36:08SPEAKERShe was like you got to go back and get an iPhone again so I can communicate with you

36:14SPEAKERLike the fold is interesting to me

36:16SPEAKERI don't like the big the other thing I was gonna ask you about is the camera situation

36:19SPEAKERCuz it's it's a you have a two camera two camera on the foot on the flip and I was curious

36:25SPEAKERIs it is it a tella and a like a normal normal lens or is it a wide and ultra wide?

36:31SPEAKERSo no telephone got it see so that the telephoto is so spectacularly useful

36:37SPEAKERAnd since it's the main way I take pictures now, I don't know that I can go back to not having the telephoto

36:42SPEAKERYeah, so the galaxy fold the big tablet style one does have the telephoto

36:47SPEAKERIt also costs $1,800. That's a lot. The flip does not have the telephoto

36:53SPEAKERI wonder if next year will be the year that they move to that, but I think they've been really driven

36:59SPEAKERThey've been trying to drive the price down

37:01SPEAKERLike I think that's been the big thing for these phones is they knew the first few models not many people are gonna buy them

37:06SPEAKERThey were too expensive

37:07SPEAKERthe flip is definitely the one they're trying to get mass-market appeal with because it's

37:13SPEAKERSignificantly cheaper than the bigger screens on the fold

37:16SPEAKERSo I wonder if they're gonna hit a point where they do a cheap flip that gets down to you know

37:23SPEAKER700 or something 800 and then like a premium flip that is 11 or 12 but gets you the

37:29SPEAKERTelephoto or maybe stays at a thousand. I would love I would love a telephoto lens on it

37:33SPEAKERBut otherwise the cameras are it's Samsung like they're solid. They're good cameras. They take a good good photo

37:39SPEAKERThere may be a little bit oversaturated but like on the whole they look really nice

37:43SPEAKERThey're just not quite the best you can get from from a smartphone from a phone camera

37:49SPEAKERYeah

37:49SPEAKERI like this this to me fits the same space as like the SE the iPhone SE and the and the minis

37:55SPEAKERRight, like I I it would be really nice to have a pair like okay. I'm past skinny jeans age

38:01SPEAKERSo it's less of a problem now

38:03SPEAKERBut like it would be nice to have a smaller phone. Mm-hmm. I

38:07SPEAKERDon't know that I'm willing to sacrifice battery life. I do use the long battery a lot

38:11SPEAKERActually, I meant to ask I'm so well so in the closed configuration

38:16SPEAKERYes, it's less footprint. But is it thicker or how obviously it's thicker but how much so like is it?

38:22SPEAKERIs it so thick that you're kind of?

38:25SPEAKERLosing what you put your gain in footprint you're losing in

38:27SPEAKERYeah, I mean it does feel a little silly to be like all the phones so much smaller

38:32SPEAKERBut then you're like well, but it's twice as thick it's not actually smaller, right? But I mean, it's pretty thin

38:37SPEAKERI

38:39SPEAKERMean I've got like an iPhone 8 on my on my desk right now, which is obviously I

38:45SPEAKERMean, I don't know. It's about half the thickness of the the folded in half flip or so. It looks like folded

38:52SPEAKERIt looks like the size of a GBA light the bottom part not a screen bit. Yeah very much in the the GBA SP

39:00SPEAKERYeah, it is thinner than an SP. I'm pretty sure I mean, yeah, it's definitely thinner than SP

39:05SPEAKERI'm saying just the bottom part where the controls and the battery and stuff were yeah

39:09SPEAKERYeah

39:09SPEAKERLike it's interesting cuz like one of their marketing photos that Samsung has shows a woman putting the it putting into like a jeans jacket

39:15SPEAKERPocket on the top which is which is like this is shirt pocket territory

39:20SPEAKERA lot of people wouldn't razors were a thing

39:22SPEAKERWould carry their phone in their shirt pocket if they were like if they were like business guys with shirt pockets

39:26SPEAKERI don't have sure pockets ever but they are they are wisely

39:31SPEAKERtrying to market this phone to women and they

39:35SPEAKERThey should be because it's a phone that can actually fit in a woman's pocket. Like women's clothing is

39:40SPEAKERInfamously like terrible in regards to pockets

39:45SPEAKERIf you've never listened to the the podcast series articles of interest by Avery truffle, man

39:49SPEAKERShe has an fantastic episode about why women's clothing

39:53SPEAKEREvolved to have no pocket space. It's ridiculous, but this phone can fit in a pocket

39:58SPEAKERIt can fit in a small purse

40:00SPEAKERIt can fit in

40:02SPEAKERYou know just places that an other phone wouldn't and that extra thickness is usually not gonna be a deal breaker the way

40:08SPEAKERan extra what four inches of

40:12SPEAKERverticals, you know screen space would so I think that I think that's smart of them and I know I get a lot of

40:18SPEAKERInterest in this thing when I'm just out using it like people are people want to see it people think it looks really nice

40:25SPEAKERThey did a good job with like the color choices with it

40:28SPEAKERso it's it's definitely got kind of an aesthetic like

40:31SPEAKERHook to it that a lot of people even even people who use iPhones are like, you know

40:36SPEAKEROh, I probably wouldn't switch but like I really want it, you know

40:39SPEAKERThey want it to be an iPhone that does this would you put this in your back pocket Wes?

40:43SPEAKERI'd be scared to sit on it, but it would I mean it would fit easily

40:48SPEAKERBut I've got big, you know, big jeans back pockets. But yeah, I don't know. I like it in the front pocket

40:54SPEAKERI would I would maybe put it in a shirt a shirt pocket like a button a button-down shirt pocket

41:00SPEAKERI would give that a try and then I would probably bend over and it would fall out and shatter and I'd be really sad

41:05SPEAKERBut yeah

41:06SPEAKERThe phone the phone sales guys love people who put in their shirt pockets because they used to sell a lot of phones to those

41:10SPEAKERPeople is the bottom is the bottom back glass too, or is it plastic? It is yet

41:15SPEAKERIt's it's some version of fancy gorilla glass. Okay, virtuous seven. I don't know what they

41:21SPEAKERborrow silicate spiked glass, yeah

41:25SPEAKERI did want to mention one thing about the the flippiness

41:28SPEAKERSo my big I'm not gonna say deal-breaker with the phone because I do like the phone

41:32SPEAKERBut the one thing that really drew me to these phones was the idea of that physical interaction with a phone

41:40SPEAKERSomething you don't we don't get from smartphones anymore

41:43SPEAKERThey're so like they barely have buttons anymore right like the iPhone got rid of the bottom button the home home button

41:49SPEAKERI liked the idea of

41:52SPEAKERBringing back that feeling of opening your phone like it was just really fun to flip open an old flip phone and feel that

41:59SPEAKERmechanical weight to it

42:02SPEAKERThese phones completely fail at that experience because they want the hinge to be stiff enough that it's not gonna

42:09SPEAKERFlop around on you and it can sit in any position like we described right opening this phone with one hand is

42:16SPEAKERNerve-wracking you feel like you're gonna drop it you feel like it's gonna slip out of your hand

42:21SPEAKERIt's way too stiff to be able to just you know

42:24SPEAKERI feel like if I was gonna try to flip it open that I would throw it through the window and you know out into the

42:31SPEAKERstreet

42:32SPEAKERClosing it with kind of a hand snap is is doable and closing it with your other hand and smacking it closed

42:39SPEAKERHas a nice physical, you know clap to it

42:42SPEAKERBut I really wish that they were able to find a way to give the hinge that

42:48SPEAKERStiffness to let it sit in position, but still be able to snap it open with one hand

42:52SPEAKERYou want the you want that you want that Star Trek communicator?

42:56SPEAKERYou want to you want to hear the exactly chirp when they open it?

42:59SPEAKERYou want to flip it open and yeah, I'm actually surprised that no one making

43:04SPEAKERIt makes me feel crazy that no one else wants this because that's like so clearly the attraction for me to this design

43:11SPEAKERI'm surprised no one has made a

43:13SPEAKERcase for it that has like a little thumb kind of

43:17SPEAKERLedge on it that would let you use your thumb to just like pull it, you know pull the whole thing open

43:22SPEAKERBut from what I've seen nobody has made a case with a little extra lip on it like that, which seems to me like an obvious

43:31SPEAKERAddition for this thing. So I don't know maybe nobody cares about being able to snap this thing open with one hand, but I do

43:38SPEAKERWhat what is what is the case situation like I mean like in in terms of form factor and also materials

43:43SPEAKERMost of the ones that I saw for the flip for would cover they don't cover the hinge

43:50SPEAKERSo it's kind of like a front and back cover and now obviously they're gonna have a bigger kind of carve out

43:55SPEAKERFor this big cover screen on the front, but you can get you know

44:00SPEAKERYou can get your plastic cases. You can get your your leather or pleather cases

44:04SPEAKERI think they kind of all look about the same the way like most phone cases do but so far

44:11SPEAKERI've been going the caseless route. I don't know are you guys?

44:14SPEAKERCaseless or are you you always put a case on there to protect it?

44:17SPEAKERI only grudgingly started using cases when the iPhones went to glass backs. Mmm. I was I was very much a raw or nothing

44:26SPEAKERprior to that like I actually started to ask earlier if

44:29SPEAKERThe folding nature of this thing kind of obviates the need for a case

44:31SPEAKERI mean, obviously the external screen is still exposed and I would hope that's durable and scratch resistant to some degree

44:37SPEAKERBut like yeah, maybe maybe you just feel like you need a case less with this form factor

44:42SPEAKERI don't know. That was a big part of the appeal to me was the idea of

44:46SPEAKERProtecting the interior screen even if you dropped this thing

44:51SPEAKERhaving said that it seems like a lot of the drops break the hinge and

44:57SPEAKERSo that you know if your hinge breaks and you can't open the phone properly or use it

45:03SPEAKEROpened properly then I guess yeah that kind of like destroys the advantage of it being a closing phone. So

45:11SPEAKERLuckily, I haven't dropped my flip for onto any surface that that damaged it

45:16SPEAKERI did drop it a couple times and it held up fine, but it seems like one of those things where

45:23SPEAKERAlmost like if you're driving a a really small and light car and you get into a minor car wreck

45:28SPEAKERlike it's totaled because it's a small and light car whereas, you know, an old Volvo would just like

45:34SPEAKERShake it off and we just wouldn't have a frame and right so on. Yeah, so yeah, I think

45:39SPEAKERunfortunately because it's just such a complex design even though that interior screen is

45:45SPEAKERSupposedly protected a drop could still be pretty bad for it

45:49SPEAKERBut I don't know I went caseless with the flip for I think I'm gonna go caseless with this one

45:54SPEAKERI've never been a phone case user for many years

45:58SPEAKERI had a great run of not damaging my phones and then I chewed through like four pixels in about

46:05SPEAKERThree years dropping them and breaking screens and stuff

46:08SPEAKERBut they were so freakin cheap to upgrade between them and I use Google Fi and they like always have good offers and stuff

46:16SPEAKERSo I kind of it was kind of just fine I could make do and then upgrade the next year and get a new phone

46:21SPEAKERAnd then drop it again

46:22SPEAKERIt looks like you can get like you can get like Otterbox style protective cases even but I don't see anything that

46:29SPEAKERThat's waterproof for fairly obvious reasons because you know, it's a it's got moving pieces and you're not gonna be able to seal it up appropriately

46:36SPEAKERYeah, it has like an IPX 8 rating. So it is rated for water

46:41SPEAKERNot you know, you don't want to dunk this thing, but like it can get water on it and it's fine

46:46SPEAKERBut you just drop it in the toilet and it'll survive survive. Yeah. Yeah, but dust is still the

46:51SPEAKERThe danger the X means no dust protection, right? So there they haven't gotten there yet

46:57SPEAKERYeah

47:00SPEAKERI'm I'm

47:01SPEAKERLike it's really wild before we did the show

47:04SPEAKERI looked at some of the Chinese companies that are making these and it seems like it's a like a growing chunk of the market there

47:12SPEAKERLike there's a bunch of innovation

47:14SPEAKERLike you said the hinge designs are I mean, it's literally like like looking at Galapagos birds

47:21SPEAKERin that in that there's a 50 different hinge designs and everybody's nobody's settled on the right thing and it's interesting because the phone like

47:29SPEAKERIt's a place that the phone market hasn't been since the iPhone 10 and the slab phone started

47:35SPEAKERThe notch slab phone started taking off seven six seven years ago

47:40SPEAKERSo I I am really interested to see this. I can't imagine Apple getting into this space until

47:47SPEAKERUnless they have a hinge design that they really like and that is a no

47:51SPEAKERthat that's a no excuses hinge right like mmm like you like your bubble stitch on the four is something that they they would

47:58SPEAKERI don't think they would ship but I don't know. I think you're right. Yeah, there's two questions there

48:04SPEAKERI mean I came into this wanting to ask you guys. Do you think Apple will follow this route? I'm like you actually

48:09SPEAKERpartially answered the other question West when you mentioned earlier that people are kind of intrigued by this thing because there's

48:15SPEAKERWith Apple, it seems like there there's a can we get the materials and the engineering and the design?

48:20SPEAKERinto an Apple like place that we're satisfied with but there's also is there like a

48:24SPEAKERMarket opportunity for the types of people who like to buy Apple products. And so like that was that was my other question is like

48:31SPEAKERDo you think Apple sees this as something that fits into the Apple style of product in a way that their customers are gonna want?

48:38SPEAKERYou know you saying people are taken with this thing like there's at least obviously some some novelty to it

48:44SPEAKERYeah, people definitely are into the novelty

48:47SPEAKERI guess the question is is that novelty like gonna sell on the billions scale that that Apple wants to sell that right or

48:54SPEAKERPeople in you know, would they buy one and then go and now it's like too many compromises

49:00SPEAKERLike I don't I don't want this anymore and then just go back to their their normal style phone

49:04SPEAKERI think that's probably a lot of people like a lot of people would

49:07SPEAKERWould buy it once at least at this stage where there's still stuff to be worked out about them

49:13SPEAKERYou know and just go like too many compromises for me, but that was cool

49:18SPEAKERBut that was kind of why I jumped in on it. I was like, I know I can buy this first-gen at a discount

49:23SPEAKERI'll probably be able to upgrade to the next one

49:26SPEAKERSamsung was offering like

49:28SPEAKER$900 trade-ins towards the $1,000 phone if you had a previous-gen flip so I was like I bought my first one for 600 bucks

49:36SPEAKERSo I was like, okay, I pay 600 I can upgrade

49:41SPEAKEREssentially get the new phone still cheaper than I would have, you know paid like base value for the the first one

49:48SPEAKERSo like it was kind of a win-win for me

49:50SPEAKERAssuming I didn't destroy the the flip for before the flip 5 came out which I managed to avoid doing

49:55SPEAKERWell, so they're clearly investing in it because they think it's a future like they think there's a future there, right? Seems like it. Yeah. Yeah

50:03SPEAKERYeah back on Apple like I don't know. I mean they tend to enter markets after they've kind of been established

50:09SPEAKERAnd then do it to their level of polish that nobody else is doing right?

50:13SPEAKERSo they've got to be experimenting with these things

50:16SPEAKERBut maybe they're still at the point where things like that bubble and the the cover

50:21SPEAKERprotector like you you mentioned will would just be stuff that they just go and like we're not gonna ship a phone that has any

50:27SPEAKERChance of this kind of thing happening

50:29SPEAKERSo it might still take them years to get to the point where they can make one. That's sort of

50:34SPEAKERFlawless to the the Apple satisfaction, but I don't know maybe by that point

50:39SPEAKERThis is kind of a fad that has blown over and they just ignore it. I'm not sure

50:44SPEAKERThe the full back screen is the first one that I've seen that I was like, oh, right

50:49SPEAKERThis is like probably 70% of the things I look at my phone for I could do on that on that small screen

50:55SPEAKERand then the big screen would be for typing it really like what if I just need information the back screen seems great if I'd

51:02SPEAKERNeed to type something. It seems like you'd want to open it up and use the the full full long screen

51:07SPEAKERhow do you to feel about your phone being a

51:11SPEAKERfun thing versus a utility thing because for me buying this was largely because I was like

51:17SPEAKERMy phones have been the same for years. This used to be a you know, a fun novel gadget to me

51:22SPEAKERit is not that anymore it is just a you a utility for me and I was like, I'm ready I'm like ready to be just kind of

51:30SPEAKEREntertained by this thing again and just feel a little bit excited about it and it to feel a little fresh

51:35SPEAKERSo that was why I bought into it, but I know that that's not what everybody wants from their phone

51:42SPEAKERFor me the phone is so important for work that I don't like I don't want risk

51:48SPEAKERlike I'm I'm it's it's like overclocking on my desktop right like when I was just using my desktop computer at home to play games and

51:55SPEAKERI had another computer at an office someplace that I used for work and and and for for the business of making money

52:03SPEAKERThen I would overclock and I would take you know, do some stupid stuff on the put a big water cooling custom water cooling loop in

52:10SPEAKERThese days I don't have that like I'm pretty risk-averse on the phone. So if I like I wouldn't I

52:17SPEAKERGuess I don't use a case anymore

52:19SPEAKERBut that's also because I know I can go to the Apple Store and give them a hundred bucks and they'll give me a new

52:22SPEAKERScreen and later that day. I

52:26SPEAKERThink I would this would be a second gen purchase for me for sure

52:30SPEAKERLike I don't even upgrade my phone every more every year anymore

52:34SPEAKERWes like I I I'm not on the upgrade plan thing. I

52:39SPEAKERGet one when they have something that looks nice and which usually is like the cameras 3% better or something

52:45SPEAKERSo probably no for me to get to give you an idea of how of my level of fascination with smartphones

52:50SPEAKERI bought the new SE last year, which is now what a seven or eight year old design

52:56SPEAKEROkay, when did the iPhone 6 come out? I forget. Anyway, it's just like it looks like the last few phones

53:01SPEAKERI've had you know, it's like whatever I am completely 100% in the appliance utility

53:06SPEAKERend-of-the-spectrum

53:08SPEAKERMoney is more you care more about not spending a shitload of money on it than you do the bobbles

53:14SPEAKERI just don't do enough with the phone to justify it honestly like anything I can do on a bigger screen

53:19SPEAKERI absolutely am going to do on a bigger screen

53:21SPEAKERSo it you know, it does what it needs to do as a phone and that's fine

53:25SPEAKERThat's why I haven't been interested in the the folds. Like I'm all about the flip form factor is the fold

53:30SPEAKERI'm like I see the appeal of having a big tablet screen if you're a really heavy phone user

53:35SPEAKERbut I'm like

53:36SPEAKERI don't really want to watch

53:38SPEAKERThe only time I watch movies or TV on my phone is if I'm on an airplane like I do not watch

53:43SPEAKERUse it as my just I'm gonna lay in bed and watch a movie on my phone

53:46SPEAKERLike I use a TV I use a monitor

53:48SPEAKERI

53:48SPEAKERuse some other thing for reading if it's not a website or a newsletter like I want to read on my Kindle or a you

53:55SPEAKERKnow an actual book like a bigger bigger surface of some kind. So for me, I just didn't really get the appeal of the tablets

54:04SPEAKERThing for the way I use devices. I think I just have an older school. Like I'm gonna sit at my computer

54:08SPEAKERI'm gonna use my laptop like my phone is

54:11SPEAKERNot it's kind of the in-between device

54:14SPEAKERSo I didn't want that huge screen, but the flip was just I don't know

54:18SPEAKERThere's it's like enough silliness there that I was just really attracted to it

54:21SPEAKERIt's I mean honestly if it was the the one that I really looked at and was like this is cool was the original razor

54:27SPEAKERWith the chin like when you that like the idea that you have a thinner screen on top

54:31SPEAKERThat's like the the was was pretty compelling the the kind of DS

54:37SPEAKERor

54:38SPEAKERGBA SP style

54:40SPEAKERSandwich flip is is maybe less appeal. I I don't know like I look realistically

54:47SPEAKERWhen one of these comes out if it doesn't have a crap camera, I'll probably try it

54:51SPEAKERThat's that's gonna be the gate for me more than anything

54:53SPEAKERI bet well, I'm looking forward to seeing one of these get a telephoto and then I'll I'll send it to you and be like

54:59SPEAKERAll right. Well, you got you guys tell him yeah, and then you then you can talk to Gina and be like, hey

55:03SPEAKERHe's gonna you're not gonna text him ever again. We're gonna have to start using whatsapp. It's gonna be a disaster

55:09SPEAKERHe's gonna be on telegram again. Yeah telegrams great. Everybody should get on telegram. No don't know

55:14SPEAKERNo telegram

55:16SPEAKERbut yeah

55:18SPEAKERSo yeah, I guess we should talk about the big ones for a sec

55:21SPEAKERThey're a lot more expensive generally they kind of are like the neither fish nor fowl of phones and tablets

55:27SPEAKERLike that that that part of it

55:30SPEAKERLike I really like having a dedicated iPad

55:32SPEAKERIt's I bought one last year when the when the m2s came to the iPad pros and I wasn't

55:39SPEAKERExpecting to find it as useful as I have and I literally use it every day more than my phone at this point

55:46SPEAKERSo like I get the appeal

55:48SPEAKERBut I also think that these aren't gonna be like what the size of the the size of the tablet that you get with

55:54SPEAKERThis is too small

55:57SPEAKERto do the stuff that I do on the iPad and not big enough and and and and too big to carry in my pocket everywhere is

56:03SPEAKERKind of where I end up

56:05SPEAKERDefinitely on the heavier side as phones go Samsung managed to slim down the newest the z fold 5. It's 253 grams

56:12SPEAKERI don't know how much that compares to a

56:15SPEAKERtypical like iPhone XL but the pixel fold is 283 so 30 grams heavier, which is a

56:22SPEAKERSignificant difference like it's a it's a big boy

56:25SPEAKERYeah, it's it's - it's still heavier. It's still heavier than than an iPhone. I think there I'm scrolling here

56:33SPEAKERof course the the

56:35SPEAKERIt's in ounces. So 0.18 ounces is

56:40SPEAKERLet's see who can type it in fastest it's five grams that seems low it can't be five grams

56:47SPEAKERThat's that's I think I think your phone's bad a paper. Well, look, I think this is this may shock you but I think that Google's

56:54SPEAKERHey, here's how we scraped the details from the from the page

56:59SPEAKERAI maybe is shit. Hold on. Wait, does something go wrong in a Google search and give you that information?

57:05SPEAKERI know it's shocking. Let me go to Wikipedia. They're reliable

57:08SPEAKERI didn't think this was gonna come up so I didn't bother to look for this

57:11SPEAKERthe I think the state they're at with these tablets right now is kind of like that transition from

57:18SPEAKERAndroid honeycomb to ice cream sandwich where they made a tablet OS and then they were like, okay, how do we make this?

57:24SPEAKERLike just Android, right?

57:26SPEAKERI

57:28SPEAKERThink they are kind of in that space where Google is now going

57:32SPEAKERokay, we need to make more apps work across all these different form factors whether you're using a

57:38SPEAKERVertical screen or a fat screen and kind of seamlessly transition. So they're making that happen, but it's it's taking a while

57:46SPEAKERI think in the verges review of the pixel fold they were talking about how like Instagram

57:52SPEAKERCouldn't use the full square frame of the folded out version of the fold, which is kind of a bummer

57:58SPEAKERBut I feel like in another year or two, we're gonna start seeing

58:02SPEAKERPractically all the the major apps move over and support this stuff pretty seamlessly

58:06SPEAKERWell, especially now that they're making one, right?

58:08SPEAKERThat's that's always the when Google starts making it that's when Android gets serious about supporting it

58:12SPEAKERThe iPhone 14 Pro Max is 240 grams for the record. So that's pretty close like they're getting in spitting distance

58:19SPEAKERYeah, 40 40 grams is a half an ounce or something. So

58:24SPEAKERYeah, it's it's it's it's it's like it's an interesting. It's an interesting place

58:29SPEAKERI'm excited that people are doing weird stuff with phones again, honestly. Yeah. Yeah, whether whether it's something I'm interested in or not

58:35SPEAKERIt's cool to just see something new to talk about in that space

58:37SPEAKERbut you know

58:38SPEAKERlike iPhone sales have been flat for the last couple of years like feels like we've just reached some point of

58:45SPEAKERI started to say tedium like maybe that's that's a little harsh but you know, like phones are just phones now

58:50SPEAKERYeah, that market it's it's funny when we started tested in 2010. It's one of the things we were talking about with

58:57SPEAKERwith the PC market, right and it's like we'd reached a point where

59:01SPEAKERyou know

59:02SPEAKERThe new CPU is 5% faster than the than the last gen CPU and the market was really mature and there wasn't

59:09SPEAKERThere there was there was obvious runway left and there still is but it wasn't

59:13SPEAKERYou weren't getting hey now you have programmable shaders in your graphics pipeline

59:19SPEAKEREvery other year like you had been for the last 20 years and and the phone market hit that I think a lot faster

59:25SPEAKERpartly because it has to fit in your pocket and partly because it has to

59:28SPEAKERLike you can't use more power than you can charge on a battery in a day and the battery tech is is still

59:34SPEAKERMore or less the same as it always has been or has been for the last 10 or 15 years

59:38SPEAKERYeah, I like that people are also just making weird choices right now with these with these phones like the vivo xflip

59:45SPEAKERWhich is one of the Chinese phones

59:47SPEAKERThey just went with a full pleather exterior for the parts of the phone that are not screen and like I don't know that

59:53SPEAKERI want that but when's the last time somebody made a phone that wasn't just all glass, right?

59:59SPEAKERIt's like it's it's just it's just cool that they're trying other things

1:00:03SPEAKERit reminds me of the early in the smartphone era where people were making some some pretty bizarre choices and kind of going going out and

1:00:12SPEAKERJust going on a limb going for it with some unusual designs that usually didn't win out

1:00:17SPEAKERBut you had choices back then and now it is kind of everybody's making the same phone with their own

1:00:23SPEAKERSoftware on it more or less or a better camera, you know

1:00:26SPEAKERyeah, there was a period of time early in the early 2010s when when like you could make a

1:00:32SPEAKERpeople realize you could make a phone and sell a hundred thousand units and probably be okay financially and

1:00:38SPEAKERLike you like Motorola made a bunch of weird experiments and note Nokia made a bunch of weird experiments and like that

1:00:45SPEAKERThat is those those slabs with notches have replaced all of those. So

1:00:51SPEAKERAnyway, Wes, thank you so much for coming by. This is this has been fantastic

1:00:55SPEAKERI want to hear more when you hear I want to hear please let us know if there's any disasters in the future

1:01:01SPEAKERWe'll do thanks for helping me justify buying a new phone. Yeah

1:01:05SPEAKERWell, it sounds like it sounds like Samsung really subsidized your cost on it. So, yeah, you know, thank you Sam Sam song as well

1:01:11SPEAKERYeah

1:01:13SPEAKERWhere can people find find your work?

1:01:16SPEAKERYeah, you can find me on PC gamer and you can find my emulation newsletter at read-only memo calm

1:01:23SPEAKERGreat name Wow, you got the dot-com - yeah every only memo calm

1:01:28SPEAKEROh, I wish we had 30 minutes to talk about like TLDs because I was so

1:01:33SPEAKERIt took me so long to find to come up with this name

1:01:36SPEAKERI had a list of much worse names than I hit on this one and I was like

1:01:40SPEAKERThat's a pretty good name for a newsletter. I think got the dot-com

1:01:44SPEAKERI really wanted to get read-only dot memo, but there isn't a dot memo which feels like it should be a TLD

1:01:51SPEAKERI figured out that there is a dot M Oh

1:01:55SPEAKERTLD but it is a

1:01:58SPEAKERMozambique or something like you you have to be like you have to work for the government of a

1:02:03SPEAKERParticular country to be able to get that get one of those domains. I was like, well shit, who do I need to petition?

1:02:11SPEAKERTo get this then you have to decide if you want to actually split a word across both parts

1:02:16SPEAKERWhich I find a bit gauche personally

1:02:18SPEAKERNo

1:02:19SPEAKERNo, okay

1:02:20SPEAKERYou just need to you need what you need to do is get dot emo to be a thing and then you're going to go

1:02:25SPEAKERYeah, that that's you know, my chemical romance there. It's just it's gonna happen

1:02:31SPEAKERWould you unsubscribe Brad if I had dot emo would that would that be?

1:02:35SPEAKERI mean if you did Mozambique just try it out try it out like read-only med dot mo like that

1:02:40SPEAKERYou have to you have to think about how to verbalize

1:02:42SPEAKERYeah, who do I need to petition to get dot memo to become a domain? Is it Google?

1:02:47SPEAKERAre they ones who decide this stuff? I can I probably

1:02:50SPEAKERBut we this okay, we've been talking about doing it. Why how TLDs work episode for a long time. You need like a hundred and fifty

1:02:57SPEAKERgrand and

1:02:59SPEAKERYou it's I can right and I do not have a spare

1:03:03SPEAKER$150,000 for my hobby project. Unfortunately, what if you did a Kickstarter where you so loud

1:03:10SPEAKERTickets for the first domains. Oh my god

1:03:12SPEAKERThat's such a good idea that we have to cut it out of the podcast. Okay. Well, nevermind

1:03:18SPEAKERDot memo, please make it happen. Are we gonna back to where our way into becoming a domain registrar because that seems fun

1:03:24SPEAKERI don't you and I think the different things are fun

1:03:28SPEAKERBrad I'll sign up with you Brad. I'm on I'm on pork bun right now because of you guys

1:03:33SPEAKERBut I'll move over to Brad's domains dot dot whatever dot memo

1:03:38SPEAKERYeah, this is the future

1:03:43SPEAKERWes thank you so much for coming by this has been fabulous to talk about the bendy phone situation

1:03:49SPEAKERWe're in our bendy phone era now

1:03:54SPEAKERHow many eras have we been through now we've been through the bendy phone era we've been through the

1:03:58SPEAKERrole in the room temperature superconducting era where yes, we're in the

1:04:03SPEAKERClimate change is real and happening everywhere era. That's kind of a more of a bummer one

1:04:08SPEAKERYes, and the too much caffeine or no caffeine era. Yeah, maybe it's maybe it's acid not caffeine era

1:04:15SPEAKERthere's

1:04:16SPEAKERThe electric car charging era that that one goes on longer than you might want sometimes

1:04:22SPEAKERCoffee era I've been in a coffee era for a really long time for an entire maybe two eras by this point

1:04:28SPEAKERBut but we wouldn't be here at all without our beautiful patreon patrons, right?

1:04:34SPEAKERLike that we're in our permanent era the thinking our patrons era. Yeah, it's always it's always a good time to thank your patrons

1:04:40SPEAKERSo thank you patrons. Thank you

1:04:42SPEAKERas always we like to thank all of our patrons if you want to find out how you can support the show or

1:04:47SPEAKERcheck to make sure that patreon didn't screw up billing and maybe

1:04:50SPEAKERKick you off of the discord and the whole thing if you if you've had been having trouble getting in

1:04:55SPEAKERThere were some billing shenanigans at the first of August this year. You can go to patreon.com slash tech pod

1:05:01SPEAKERYou can check your status. You can see what tier you are

1:05:04SPEAKERYou can sign up to support the show because we are 100% listener supported. There's no ads your ad

1:05:09SPEAKERSkip isn't working. Well here there's we just don't do them. That's right

1:05:12SPEAKERWe we that's what we love you all so much that we aren't gonna make you listen to bluetooth ads. You're welcome

1:05:18SPEAKERWe love you so much for just pouring advertising money down the drain. Yeah

1:05:23SPEAKERhmm interesting, but so yeah, you can go to patreon.com slash tech pod and

1:05:28SPEAKERFor five bucks a month you get access to the patron episode every month you get access to the fabulous tech pod discord

1:05:35SPEAKERWhich is full of beautiful nerds just like you who are talking about the things that we talk about in the show

1:05:39SPEAKERLike the coffee talk is still going just to just like it keeps coming back

1:05:43SPEAKERPeople are discovering the episode and they come back and they're like, hey, I want to talk about maybe we need to do a coffee podcast

1:05:49SPEAKERThat's the that's the thing. I'm taking away from this whole conversation

1:05:54SPEAKERBut yeah, people are like people are talking about Linux servers people are talking about home labs people are talking about emulation people are talking

1:06:01SPEAKERIt's it's funny

1:06:03SPEAKERBecause the emulation channel has gone from a hey, I built a mister channel to the hey

1:06:08SPEAKERI bought some weird thing from Alibaba that I can run every game

1:06:11SPEAKERI've ever wanted to play on it over the last couple of months emulation handhelds are getting huge not not physically huge

1:06:17SPEAKERBut like that's that's the talk and the retro scene

1:06:21SPEAKERAt least on our server lately is because they're very fast like you can emulate kind of

1:06:26SPEAKERDamn near everything these things Xbox 360s, right? Like yeah

1:06:32SPEAKERAnyway, the discord is a wonderful place to hang out and and meet people that are into the same things as you there's there's a whole

1:06:38SPEAKERGroup of people who are just hanging out watching TV in the discord in the evenings together, which I love. I think that's fabulous

1:06:45SPEAKERI started I started to read the most recent headline that somebody posted in the Linux channel, but I don't know if I should

1:06:50SPEAKERIt might be a vote against for some people, but it's very haiku OS support upstreamed into GCC compiler

1:06:56SPEAKERI was just saying I was you know what I would just just this morning

1:07:00SPEAKERI woke up and I looked over at my wife as we were laying in bed together was like hey

1:07:03SPEAKERWhat's the status of haiku OS support inside the GCC compiler and now I know I can tell her she's gonna be excited to find out

1:07:09SPEAKERI I find it. I find it quite interesting

1:07:13SPEAKERBut yeah, you can you can go to patreon.com slash tech pod find out how to sign up there

1:07:18SPEAKERand as always we want to thank all of our patrons, but especially our executive producer to your patrons including

1:07:24SPEAKERAndrew slosky buddy fiend also claims to be a room-temperature superconductor

1:07:30SPEAKERpaddle Creek games makers of fractured veil David Allen James kamek Joel Krauska Jordan lippett just wedge 3.0 Nick Johnston

1:07:38SPEAKERtwinkle twinkie and

1:07:40SPEAKERPantheon makers of the HS 3 high-speed 3d printer. I

1:07:46SPEAKERKind of think I'm gonna say this out loud. I

1:07:51SPEAKERSomebody in the discord said something the other day that made me think

1:07:55SPEAKERthey said I I used the the people the

1:07:58SPEAKERresources in this or the people the stuff that we talked about in the podcast to shape almost all of my purchasing decisions these days and

1:08:07SPEAKERLike that is

1:08:10SPEAKERLike a it's the kind of thing that advertising people love to tap into which I'm less interested in helping

1:08:15SPEAKERbut like I would like to do more product stuff because I think that we're both we have a pretty unique perspective on product stuff and

1:08:21SPEAKERI'd be interested to hear what people think about that. We need to do another survey is the other thing

1:08:25SPEAKERI realize so I'll work on putting that together and

1:08:27SPEAKERHave something that folks can do to kind of tell us how we're doing

1:08:30SPEAKERI like I want to know how patreon's feel like we're doing and I want to know how normal listeners who aren't patrons

1:08:35SPEAKERI think we're doing and and we would love we'd love to love to get that feedback from folks

1:08:40SPEAKERSo anyway, I guess that's it for us this week. Thanks again to Wes for coming by

1:08:44SPEAKERuh

1:08:46SPEAKERBrad I'm glad to see your duck in the background again

1:08:49SPEAKERYes, Wes got on this video call and immediately was just like well, that's the most parental background

1:08:54SPEAKERI have ever seen on a video call before look man. You don't have a China hutch in your house

1:09:00SPEAKERNo

1:09:01SPEAKERFree not it's the defining characteristic for parents of a certain edge. I've been I've been thinking oh, man

1:09:07SPEAKERMaybe this is you know what this is an episode idea right here

1:09:10SPEAKERIt's talking to my dad last night because I could rotate the laptop about 45 degrees first you get this very old stove

1:09:17SPEAKERThat's a cool stove

1:09:19SPEAKERThen you get this harvest gold refrigerator

1:09:21SPEAKERI had one just like that when I was a kid, but mine was all was was green

1:09:25SPEAKERIt was the it was like the the pea green color

1:09:29SPEAKERSo this refrigerator is something like 35 to 40 years old and is still going

1:09:34SPEAKERThey're probably spending more money on electricity for that thing than it's worth

1:09:38SPEAKERMaybe we should do an episode about old appliances that refused to die

1:09:42SPEAKERI mean look there is something to be said about not building in the the point of failure that will make the thing last ten

1:09:49SPEAKERyears

1:09:50SPEAKERYeah, it's a fantastic fantastic idea, but I my favorite thing is on top of the China hutch

1:09:55SPEAKERThere's a couple of ducks and they always look happy and I enjoy seeing them when you're visiting your folks

1:09:59SPEAKERSo, you know, it's probably nice to be a duck. I would be happy to see y'all next week. Thanks for listening everybody

1:10:08SPEAKER(upbeat music)