00:00SPEAKER- I think everybody has a favorite terrible YouTube genre.
00:03SPEAKER- Yeah, I haven't found mine yet, but--
00:05SPEAKER- Really?
00:05SPEAKER- There's plenty of time and plenty of videos.
00:07SPEAKER- I was over at Gary's and we were watching
00:09SPEAKERthese Russian guys do slap fights.
00:12SPEAKER- Okay.
00:13SPEAKER- They were just huge Russian men
00:15SPEAKERhitting each other in the face with an open hand
00:17SPEAKERas hard as they could.
00:18SPEAKER- A lot of vodka involved?
00:19SPEAKER- I don't think they were drinking.
00:21SPEAKER- Huh.
00:21SPEAKER- But the point was to see if you could take,
00:23SPEAKERit's either like three or five hits
00:25SPEAKERand then without going down and somebody always goes down.
00:28SPEAKERIt was horrifying.
00:29SPEAKER- You mean like involuntarily goes down?
00:30SPEAKER- Yeah, like they're stunned so bad
00:32SPEAKERthat they cannot stay conscious anymore.
00:33SPEAKER- Like minor brain injury type going down?
00:35SPEAKER- I would say that these people are pretty strong candidates
00:37SPEAKERfor the concussive syndrome.
00:41SPEAKERYes, it's not, look, I'm not endorsing this.
00:44SPEAKER- We've come a long way since grocery hauls.
00:46SPEAKER- Right, cold open mentions are not endorsements.
00:49SPEAKER- Yeah, that's fair.
00:51SPEAKER- I've been watching gender reveal fails.
00:54SPEAKER- Okay.
00:54SPEAKER- As somebody who has recently, fairly recently,
00:56SPEAKERmy kid is seven now, so it's not recent,
00:59SPEAKERbut I find the gender reveal to be foreign
01:03SPEAKERand terrifying and completely unnecessary concept.
01:06SPEAKER- It's 2020's hottest trend, it seems.
01:09SPEAKER- It seems like everybody's talking about it.
01:10SPEAKERI don't know, we can't go very far on social media
01:12SPEAKERthese days without somebody mocking one of these events.
01:15SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, look, I'm all for celebrating
01:18SPEAKERthe impending birth of your child.
01:20SPEAKERI think that's great.
01:21SPEAKERI think lighting shit on fire or burning something down
01:24SPEAKERor exploding something sometimes is hilarious,
01:27SPEAKERbut it's always a bad idea.
01:29SPEAKER- I didn't know you were gonna go straight there,
01:30SPEAKERbut I was going to say, it seems like people
01:31SPEAKERblow themselves up an awful lot
01:34SPEAKERin the pursuit of flamboyant reveals.
01:36SPEAKER- I don't, I'm not a fan of the gender reveal tragedy.
01:39SPEAKERI just want the light to fail.
01:41SPEAKER- It's a bad way to start the life of your unborn,
01:44SPEAKERof your soon to be born child.
01:45SPEAKER- Yeah, orphan your child before they're born.
01:47SPEAKERIt's not a good idea.
01:47SPEAKER- Killing a parent or other family member
01:49SPEAKERin the course of celebrating their--
01:50SPEAKER- This got dark.
01:51SPEAKER- Yeah, welcome to Welcome to 2020.
01:53SPEAKER- Yeah, well, yeah, welcome to the new new.
01:55SPEAKER(upbeat music)
02:22SPEAKER- Welcome to another episode
02:23SPEAKERof Brad and Will Made at TechPod.
02:25SPEAKERI'm Will.
02:25SPEAKER- Thanks for having me, I'm Brad.
02:26SPEAKER- Why are you, thanks, your name's in the title.
02:29SPEAKER- Always a pleasure to be here in my own house.
02:31SPEAKER- I was welcoming them, not you.
02:33SPEAKER- At my own dining table.
02:34SPEAKER- You're welcoming with me.
02:36SPEAKER- This table has been in my family for--
02:38SPEAKER- Really?
02:39SPEAKER- Since at least the '70s.
02:40SPEAKER- Did it make the journey across the continent?
02:43SPEAKER- This is my grandmother's old--
02:45SPEAKER- Oh, really?
02:46SPEAKER- You could probably, you could find a picture of me
02:47SPEAKERat the age of like six in my underwear
02:49SPEAKERreading the Sears catalog,
02:50SPEAKERlooking at pictures of Nintendo games.
02:52SPEAKER- Oh, man, I have my grandmother's old
02:56SPEAKERdining room table chairs.
02:57SPEAKER- Okay.
02:58SPEAKER- And there's a picture of me, I'm sure,
03:00SPEAKERsitting in those chairs, looking at the Sears catalog,
03:02SPEAKERlooking at Kenner Star Wars toys,
03:03SPEAKERprobably five years before you were,
03:05SPEAKERyour picture was taken.
03:06SPEAKER- That part of the country is well known for nice furniture.
03:08SPEAKER- Yeah.
03:09SPEAKER- It turns out, you don't wanna hang onto that stuff.
03:11SPEAKER- Yeah, those Eastern Valley folk make a good chair.
03:16SPEAKER- It's fine woodworking.
03:19SPEAKERI'm ready for some fine emails.
03:21SPEAKER- Ooh, I love a fine email.
03:22SPEAKERWe're doing an email episode early this week.
03:25SPEAKERWe're gonna,
03:26SPEAKERyou wanna just tell them how the sausage is made?
03:28SPEAKER- Sure.
03:28SPEAKER- We record two episodes at a time.
03:31SPEAKERAnd we realized--
03:32SPEAKER- It's efficient.
03:33SPEAKER- We realized, well, we realized we were recording
03:35SPEAKERan email episode after we recorded another episode.
03:38SPEAKERSo that means when you guys sent questions in
03:40SPEAKERabout one episode, they would not be reflected
03:43SPEAKERin the episode that immediately followed
03:44SPEAKERthat was about emails the next week.
03:46SPEAKER- We didn't want anybody to think
03:47SPEAKERwe were ignoring their emails.
03:48SPEAKER- No, no.
03:49SPEAKERAnd then by the time we got to those again,
03:51SPEAKERit had been like five weeks
03:52SPEAKERand it was too long to do that anyway.
03:53SPEAKERSo we're flip-flopping it,
03:55SPEAKERbut we're back to monthly emails after this one.
03:56SPEAKER- Sometimes you drop the emails on the floor
03:58SPEAKERand then you gotta bleach them
03:59SPEAKERand put them back on the conveyor belt.
04:00SPEAKER- It's the worst.
04:01SPEAKER- Grind them into the--
04:02SPEAKER- And make podcasts, make nuggets out of them.
04:04SPEAKER- Yeah.
04:05SPEAKER- Yeah, so here we are.
04:07SPEAKERWhat do we got emails-wise this week, Brad?
04:09SPEAKER- We got a bunch here.
04:10SPEAKER- I like emails.
04:11SPEAKER- I'm trying to decide where to start.
04:13SPEAKERThey're pretty PC-centric this week or this month.
04:16SPEAKER- Yes.
04:17SPEAKERWell, you know, it is the 2020s.
04:18SPEAKERIt's the decade of politically correctness.
04:21SPEAKER- Speaking of, wow, I'm glad you, speaking of correct-ness.
04:25SPEAKER- We don't do that here.
04:26SPEAKER- No?
04:27SPEAKER- No, this is a clarification.
04:28SPEAKER- Okay. (laughs)
04:31SPEAKERPeter wrote in with a clarification.
04:34SPEAKER- Yeah.
04:35SPEAKER- About the Prowler and the PT Cruiser.
04:37SPEAKERI guess, did we talk about that around CES?
04:39SPEAKERI think that's right.
04:40SPEAKER- We talked about with the Sony concept car, the Vision-ness.
04:44SPEAKERSo the Prowler, they did actually sell.
04:46SPEAKER- Yes, yeah, the entirety of his email is,
04:49SPEAKER"I don't remember the concept version of the Prowler,"
04:51SPEAKERbut they sold a version of it for several years.
04:53SPEAKERThe PT Cruiser was a different thing.
04:55SPEAKERSo what was it that we said,
04:57SPEAKERthat the Prowler was a concept only?
04:59SPEAKER- So Prowler was originally concept only.
05:01SPEAKERThey showed it at like the Detroit Auto Show,
05:03SPEAKERand then people got really excited about it
05:05SPEAKERto the point that they did a limited run of them.
05:07SPEAKER- That's right, they did.
05:08SPEAKERAnd that's the one that you think of as purple, right?
05:10SPEAKER- Yeah, it's always purple.
05:11SPEAKER- It's a purple, and it looks like something out of Batman,
05:13SPEAKERright, it looks like something out of the Tim Burton Batman.
05:15SPEAKER- I think it looks like Joel Schumacher Batman.
05:18SPEAKER- Oh, okay, it's a little more cheese there.
05:20SPEAKER- It is, the car had, look, it was a cool car in 1992,
05:26SPEAKERor whenever it came out.
05:28SPEAKER- But it is a little bit retro future looking thing, right?
05:31SPEAKER- Yeah, it looks like a '50s hot rod that somebody was like,
05:36SPEAKER"I wanna make this look like a '50s future car."
05:39SPEAKERAnd it's like the open back bucket hot rod design
05:41SPEAKERwith the open front wheels.
05:43SPEAKER- I just pulled it up.
05:43SPEAKER- Oh, no, no, no, this is a red car.
05:46SPEAKER- Well, the one time, look, the one true color.
05:48SPEAKER- Oh, there is, okay, here's a purple one.
05:50SPEAKER- Yeah. - Yes.
05:51SPEAKER- It looks like a car that a Joker's gang might drive.
05:54SPEAKER- It's got these like, God, like,
05:56SPEAKERI don't know if you'd call that open wheel,
05:57SPEAKERbut the front--
05:58SPEAKER- The fenders turn with the wheels, right?
06:00SPEAKER- Yeah, the front tires just straight up
06:01SPEAKERstick out from the body.
06:03SPEAKER- Yeah, it seems really dangerous, I don't know.
06:04SPEAKERIt's like an F1 car, but a station wagon.
06:06SPEAKER- Anyway, just so you know.
06:08SPEAKER- Clarifications.
06:09SPEAKER- People did buy those.
06:10SPEAKER- Yeah, the PT Cruiser.
06:11SPEAKERI still think if you look at a PT Cruiser next to that thing,
06:14SPEAKERthey took the bucket design
06:16SPEAKERand made a station wagon out of it.
06:18SPEAKERI think that those are,
06:19SPEAKERthe PT Cruiser is inspired by the prowler.
06:21SPEAKER- Okay.
06:22SPEAKER- That's my theory.
06:23SPEAKERI'll buy that.
06:24SPEAKER- Yeah, thanks for clarifying.
06:25SPEAKER- Yeah, it's good clarification.
06:27SPEAKER- All right, yeah, I don't know for whatever reason,
06:30SPEAKERwe got a bunch of emails about various PC hardware
06:33SPEAKERrelated topics, so let's get into it.
06:35SPEAKER- People have PC problems.
06:36SPEAKER- Here's an email from Vance.
06:38SPEAKER- Hey, Vance.
06:39SPEAKER- Do you have any recommendations for PC cases
06:41SPEAKERthat have the same wire free design
06:43SPEAKERof the new 2019 Mac Pro?
06:45SPEAKERMy attempts to Google it have come up empty.
06:48SPEAKERThat's probably a tall order
06:49SPEAKERsince there isn't one company developing PC form factors,
06:51SPEAKERso I'd also welcome any recommendations for a minimalist
06:54SPEAKERor doesn't screen gamer micro ATX case
06:59SPEAKERthat has an airflow similar to the Mac Pro
07:00SPEAKERwith those giant quiet fans.
07:03SPEAKERSo we talked about the, I forget when.
07:06SPEAKER- A few weeks ago, it was end of the year.
07:08SPEAKER- That wasn't a CES thing.
07:09SPEAKER- No, that was end of the year.
07:10SPEAKERIt was the year wrap up thing.
07:12SPEAKER- Yeah, if you haven't seen that Mac Pro,
07:13SPEAKERit is so precisely engineered
07:15SPEAKERthat every single component has a connector on it
07:18SPEAKERthat when you plug it into the case
07:19SPEAKERmeets the other end of the connector it needs to touch.
07:21SPEAKER- It's bonkers.
07:22SPEAKER- It is literally, it's not that there are hidden wires,
07:24SPEAKERthere are no wires, it's wild.
07:27SPEAKERBut he's right though, like that is the kind of,
07:29SPEAKERthat's the kind of product that does require
07:31SPEAKERthe insane amount of precision planning
07:33SPEAKERof a single company, right, setting out to do that.
07:35SPEAKERIt's not, you're not gonna get a bunch of off the shelf
07:37SPEAKERPC parts from different manufacturers
07:40SPEAKERthat are gonna fit together that way.
07:41SPEAKER- I mean, the thing that might happen
07:42SPEAKERis that people change the PC case designs,
07:46SPEAKERlike over time the standards evolve
07:49SPEAKERso that like the power that's required for a video card
07:51SPEAKERcomes through the PCI express slot rather.
07:53SPEAKERBut there's problems with piping a lot of power
07:58SPEAKERthrough a motherboard design and that it causes noise
08:00SPEAKERand that reduces, that causes problems and all that.
08:02SPEAKERSo like Apple clearly spent oodles of money
08:07SPEAKERdeveloping that stuff.
08:09SPEAKERI feel like probably we're not gonna see that
08:12SPEAKERfor normal PC builds.
08:14SPEAKERThere's a reason that those machines start at expensive
08:17SPEAKERand get too ludicrous, the Apple machines.
08:20SPEAKERAnd it's that they, like at the end of the day,
08:22SPEAKERnobody cares, like once you put the door
08:25SPEAKERon the side of the case, if you don't have a window on,
08:26SPEAKERwho cares if there's wires in there.
08:28SPEAKER- I mean, most modern cases from what I've seen
08:29SPEAKERare pretty good about cable management anyway.
08:32SPEAKERThey let you route and hide and kind of keep
08:35SPEAKERa pretty tidy space in there.
08:37SPEAKER- So yeah, so they asked for case recommendations.
08:39SPEAKERFractal design does good cases
08:41SPEAKERthat don't look like gamer cases.
08:43SPEAKER- My last few cases were both fractal
08:45SPEAKERand I've been very happy with one of them
08:47SPEAKERand pretty happy with the other.
08:48SPEAKERSo I can give a pretty strong endorsement.
08:50SPEAKER- Corsair's line ranges from pure gamer,
08:54SPEAKERlike lots of lights and fans in the business
08:56SPEAKERand like smoked glass sides.
09:00SPEAKER- I don't know.
09:00SPEAKERI mean, I'm, you know, whatever.
09:02SPEAKERI don't want to like rain on anybody's aesthetic parade,
09:05SPEAKERbut it's really not my thing.
09:07SPEAKERSo I want my computer, I've said it before,
09:09SPEAKERI want my computer to look like a refrigerator.
09:11SPEAKERI just want it to look like a relatively sleek,
09:15SPEAKERbut you know, not very outlandish.
09:18SPEAKERI just want it to look like a nice,
09:20SPEAKERlike brushed metal or black kind of monolithic box.
09:23SPEAKER- I had a conversation years ago with Rahul Sood
09:25SPEAKERwho started Voodoo Computer
09:27SPEAKERand they were doing like really high end,
09:28SPEAKERlike super good cable fold.
09:29SPEAKERLike they had, they hired an origami master
09:32SPEAKERto teach them how to fold parallel ATA cables
09:34SPEAKERback in the day. - That sounds amazing.
09:36SPEAKER- And to like work out how to best to route the cables
09:38SPEAKERso that they're invisible. - Parallel, wow.
09:39SPEAKERThat's parallel ATA. - With the big, wide ribbon,
09:41SPEAKERribbon cables. - Like the flat IDA.
09:43SPEAKER- Yeah, flat IDA cables.
09:44SPEAKER- Remember when rounded cables came about?
09:45SPEAKER- Oh yeah. - Remember what a revelation
09:47SPEAKERthat was? - I didn't like 'em.
09:48SPEAKER- No? - No, 'cause they were,
09:49SPEAKERthey, you couldn't route 'em well
09:50SPEAKER'cause they were too stiff 'cause they were round.
09:51SPEAKER- Mm, I guess, yeah.
09:53SPEAKERI remember people saying at the time it was a bad idea
09:55SPEAKER'cause I thought, weren't those--
09:57SPEAKER- It increases noise. - Yeah, weren't those
09:58SPEAKERIDA cables, it was like every other wire was signal and ground, I think.
10:02SPEAKER- That's the way it works. - So by bundling them
10:03SPEAKERin a tube, it was your kind of defeating that purpose.
10:05SPEAKER- There's ways around that.
10:06SPEAKERIt wasn't a big, it didn't, we tested it at maximum PC,
10:09SPEAKERit didn't impact performance. - Okay.
10:11SPEAKER- At least we got good ones, but--
10:12SPEAKER- Also, that's ancient agent technology.
10:14SPEAKER- Yeah, so the point, he, I was trying to get him to do
10:18SPEAKERlike a line of PCs that looked like furniture
10:20SPEAKERthat would just like blend in.
10:22SPEAKERLike you could make an end table that like put a,
10:25SPEAKERmake a PC case that looked like an end table
10:26SPEAKERand make that your PC. - Sure.
10:28SPEAKER- And he was like, "That's a really great idea."
10:29SPEAKERAnd then he sold his company to HP
10:31SPEAKERand stopped doing new things.
10:32SPEAKER- How about a desk with the PC built into it?
10:34SPEAKER- I've seen those. - Really?
10:35SPEAKER- For a while--
10:36SPEAKER- Now I guess you could just get a cabinet under the desk
10:38SPEAKERand it's kind of the same thing.
10:39SPEAKER- Well, there used to be a company that made cases
10:41SPEAKERthat were like desks and you would just put the PC flat
10:45SPEAKERunder a piece of plexiglass on top of a glass
10:47SPEAKERon top of the table. - Okay, okay, wow.
10:47SPEAKER- Kind of like your coffee table.
10:48SPEAKER- Wow.
10:49SPEAKER- Like imagine if your coffee table was a PC.
10:51SPEAKER- The parts are just like distributed
10:52SPEAKERand kind of mounted under the, wow, that sounds--
10:53SPEAKER- It was awesome. - That sounds cool.
10:55SPEAKER- It was very loud and it was very, it looked, so, okay.
11:00SPEAKERFractal Design, NZXT does some good non-gamer cases.
11:03SPEAKER- I've heard good stuff about their--
11:05SPEAKER- Corsair's good.
11:08SPEAKERI feel like Cooler Master
11:09SPEAKERmostly does gaming-y looking cases now.
11:12SPEAKERI loved their, like they were the first ones
11:13SPEAKERthat did aluminum cases 15 years ago.
11:16SPEAKERAnd man, that was a revelation
11:18SPEAKER'cause that thing was clean looking, it looked really nice.
11:21SPEAKERAnd it was like--
11:22SPEAKER- Oh my God, they've gotten so much better.
11:23SPEAKER- I hung on, I really, really should have bought a new case
11:27SPEAKERbefore a couple of years ago.
11:29SPEAKERI have the same case for--
11:30SPEAKER- I can't imagine you holding on to something--
11:31SPEAKER- 15 years. - 22, my edges.
11:33SPEAKER- About 12 years, something like that.
11:36SPEAKERIt was still from the days when it was just a bunch of raw,
11:39SPEAKERI don't know what the term is
11:40SPEAKERfor this kind of like unprocessed metal.
11:42SPEAKER- Oh, you have the sharp edges, the stamped--
11:44SPEAKER- Sharp edges and like rough texture on everything
11:47SPEAKERand it was just like industrial grade looking crap.
11:50SPEAKER- Yeah.
11:51SPEAKER- Like the screws had rusted by the time I got rid of it.
11:53SPEAKER- Your front USB ports were USB one.
11:55SPEAKER- Yeah.
12:00SPEAKER- I'm in that situation now.
12:01SPEAKERI have a nine year old case I think from Corsair.
12:04SPEAKER- Okay.
12:05SPEAKER- But it's really quiet.
12:07SPEAKERAnd since I started streaming on Twitch,
12:08SPEAKERI don't know what's happened to me,
12:09SPEAKERbut I have the urge to like do a big like
12:12SPEAKERwater cooling solution, like some glow in the dark fluid,
12:16SPEAKERmaybe put some lights in there,
12:18SPEAKERlike RGB sync the lights to the gameplay
12:20SPEAKER'cause that's the thing you can do now.
12:22SPEAKER- What makes you want the water?
12:23SPEAKERI got into--
12:24SPEAKER- Quiet, I want it to be quiet.
12:25SPEAKER- So that was, so A, I was feeling the same way
12:27SPEAKERthat I was gonna go water cooling next time
12:29SPEAKERand then B, I got into, I wouldn't call it an argument,
12:31SPEAKERbut a discussion, let's say on a message board
12:34SPEAKERwhere numerous people were like,
12:36SPEAKERyeah, the water is actually louder at this point.
12:38SPEAKERLike a good air cooler, if you're not overclocking--
12:40SPEAKER- It depends.
12:41SPEAKER- Is gonna be quieter.
12:42SPEAKER- So I have a 2080 Ti in my machine
12:45SPEAKERand that is a notoriously loud card.
12:47SPEAKER- So that's probably louder than any,
12:49SPEAKERoh, 'cause you wanna water cool everything.
12:50SPEAKER- I wanna water cool, I have an all-in-one on the CPU,
12:53SPEAKERwhich is fine, it's like a double radiator,
12:55SPEAKERdouble fan radiator, 280 millimeters and it's quiet.
12:58SPEAKERLike I can run the CPU full speed overclocked,
13:01SPEAKERwhatever, it doesn't matter and it doesn't make any noise.
13:03SPEAKERThe GPU, the moment that thing spins up,
13:05SPEAKERI know it because it sounds,
13:06SPEAKERif I don't have my headphones on,
13:07SPEAKERit sounds like a jet engine.
13:09SPEAKER- I didn't think about having a loud video card
13:11SPEAKERand water cooling both of them.
13:12SPEAKER- Yeah, so you have, like if you want it quiet,
13:14SPEAKERyou have to cool the video card and the CPU
13:16SPEAKERand like then you're dealing with like building your own,
13:20SPEAKERlike there's nobody that makes an all-in-one video card
13:22SPEAKERand CPU cooling solution.
13:24SPEAKER- Really?
13:25SPEAKER- So you have to build your own loop at that point
13:26SPEAKERand then it becomes a whole different process
13:28SPEAKERand I don't know if I'm ready for that.
13:29SPEAKER- Yeah, I've got a fractal define R6 for my gaming machine,
13:36SPEAKERit's fantastic, I wanna say they've come out
13:38SPEAKERwith a successor since then.
13:40SPEAKERI got it a couple of years ago,
13:41SPEAKERI think there's a newer model.
13:43SPEAKER- But I mean, the nice thing about a case like a monitor
13:45SPEAKERis like it's a thing that you buy
13:48SPEAKERand you replace way less frequently
13:50SPEAKERthan everything else in that machine.
13:51SPEAKERSome cases, like 15, 20 years, a decade or two.
13:55SPEAKER- The ones, I was thinking about that the other day
13:57SPEAKER'cause that's what I do, I was looking at that case
14:00SPEAKERthinking like I bet I use that
14:01SPEAKERfor at least another 10 years easily.
14:03SPEAKER- The thing that will screw you over
14:06SPEAKERis that it probably doesn't have USB-C ports on the front.
14:09SPEAKER- The fractal is good enough that the front panel
14:12SPEAKERis modular and they update and sell newer front panels
14:15SPEAKERso they already sell one that has a USB-C in it.
14:17SPEAKER- At the same time, I have found that
14:20SPEAKERthe case-mounted USB ports are never to be trusted.
14:24SPEAKERThey are so much less stable for anything,
14:27SPEAKERanything that's pushing a lot of data
14:28SPEAKERor needs to pull a lot of power, I have found,
14:30SPEAKERthey are absolutely god-awful compared to the onboard ports.
14:33SPEAKER- Depends on your case, it depends on the headers.
14:35SPEAKER- Okay, and I think the actual literal quality
14:38SPEAKERof like the cable and port is coming into play.
14:40SPEAKER- The USB-3 internal header, that wide one with the key,
14:46SPEAKERis notorious for snapping, for coming loose.
14:49SPEAKERSo I had problems with that on my X99 board
14:51SPEAKERand the problem was it just wasn't plugged in all the way.
14:54SPEAKER- So would you straight up lose connectivity?
14:56SPEAKER'Cause that's what I would expect.
14:57SPEAKER- It would pop in and out,
14:58SPEAKERor like if I plugged in something that was high-power,
15:00SPEAKERit would detect it and then disconnect it.
15:03SPEAKER- So those are the types of problems I have had.
15:04SPEAKER- Disconnect and disconnect.
15:05SPEAKER- Yeah, it's like a bus-powered USB hard drive
15:07SPEAKERplugged into those things, will not stay connected
15:09SPEAKERif you're trying to copy files,
15:10SPEAKERbut plugged straight into one of the board ports,
15:12SPEAKERthat's totally fine.
15:13SPEAKER- Yeah, so check your connections.
15:16SPEAKERAnd it may be that you have a faulty connection
15:17SPEAKERon the other end, which is less likely, but.
15:21SPEAKER- At this point, I just plug anything
15:22SPEAKERthat I really care about straight into the board.
15:24SPEAKER- Well, so the funny thing is like,
15:25SPEAKERI was able to do the Oculus Link cable,
15:28SPEAKERwhich is like USB 3.1 data,
15:30SPEAKERwhich nobody uses on a USB 3.1 cable,
15:33SPEAKERand it works fine off the front ports of my computer.
15:35SPEAKERSo like, your mileage may vary, I guess.
15:38SPEAKER- Yes, okay.
15:41SPEAKER- I think we thoroughly answered that question.
15:42SPEAKER- Yeah, that's a thorough answer about PC,
15:43SPEAKERI could talk about that stuff all day.
15:44SPEAKER- I love it, why I'm here.
15:46SPEAKER- Matt from Queens, New York.
15:49SPEAKERThat Queens, just wanted to make sure people knew.
15:52SPEAKERAs there may be other Queens out there,
15:53SPEAKERbut little Jamaica represent, what, what?
15:56SPEAKER- Yes.
15:57SPEAKER- I don't know, that's what I know about Queens.
15:59SPEAKERMuseum of the Modern Image is there, it's great.
16:00SPEAKERMoving image.
16:03SPEAKER- Matt says, I know precious little about video formats,
16:05SPEAKERso I figured I'd come to the experts.
16:07SPEAKERThat's us.
16:08SPEAKER- Experts.
16:08SPEAKER- Definitely in the right place.
16:09SPEAKER- Ask the experts.
16:10SPEAKER- It's the one and only.
16:11SPEAKER- Everyone tells me MKV is the most universal format,
16:14SPEAKERbut all I've seen is that it's a pain in the ass
16:16SPEAKERto run on anything but VLC.
16:19SPEAKERConversely, folks scoff at MP4,
16:22SPEAKERbut it tends to work pretty universally and cleanly
16:24SPEAKERon all my smart devices, et cetera.
16:26SPEAKERWhat is the truth?
16:27SPEAKERWhy are these shells such a pain?
16:29SPEAKER- Ah, the container question.
16:31SPEAKER- Yeah.
16:33SPEAKER- We probably need to explain what containers are
16:34SPEAKERand how video works.
16:35SPEAKER- Yes.
16:36SPEAKER- So video files are--
16:39SPEAKER- It's kind of a two-part equation, right?
16:40SPEAKER- Yeah, there's a bucket into which you pour the audio
16:43SPEAKERand video and subtitles and supplemental data.
16:46SPEAKER- And that's what he's talking about.
16:46SPEAKER- And he's talking about containers.
16:48SPEAKER- These extensions are the container formats.
16:50SPEAKER- And different containers support different things.
16:52SPEAKERSo for example, MP4 supports H.264 and MPEG-2
16:57SPEAKERand probably AVC video.
16:59SPEAKER- Yes, definitely.
17:00SPEAKER- And AAC audio and maybe MP3 audio, I can't remember.
17:05SPEAKER- I mean, it'll scale to all kinds of stuff.
17:06SPEAKERLike I just captured the video off of an Atomos.
17:10SPEAKERI don't know if it was a Shogun or a Ninja,
17:12SPEAKERI forget what type, but I captured video
17:15SPEAKERat almost 200 megabits a second in Apple.
17:20SPEAKER- So that's like lightly compressed.
17:21SPEAKER- Yeah, and the codec was like Apple ProRes 422
17:24SPEAKERor something like that.
17:24SPEAKERLike it was super high-end, but it came out as an MP4
17:27SPEAKERif I'm not mistaken.
17:28SPEAKERI'm pretty sure it was MP4.
17:29SPEAKER- That seems right.
17:30SPEAKER- Like you can cram some super high-end
17:32SPEAKERlike production-oriented stuff in there.
17:33SPEAKER- So like MPEG, the MPEG container,
17:35SPEAKERwhich is good for MPEG-2 only,
17:39SPEAKERlike that's as high as you can get.
17:41SPEAKER- And that's literally like a dot MPG or a dot MPEG.
17:45SPEAKERThat's pretty obsolete at this point, right?
17:48SPEAKER- You should don't use that.
17:50SPEAKERSo MP4 is what Apple supports and has supported on iPhone
17:53SPEAKERfor a long time natively.
17:54SPEAKER- Do you think that's why it became so ubiquitous
17:56SPEAKER'cause Apple got behind it?
17:58SPEAKER- That would be my guess.
18:00SPEAKERThere's probably some containers
18:02SPEAKERalso have licensing encumbrance, just like video codecs.
18:05SPEAKERSo for example, to support the old MP3
18:09SPEAKERaudio codec for a long time,
18:11SPEAKERthe reason there was not MP3 support in Windows XP
18:14SPEAKERis because Microsoft did not want to pay Fraunhofer
18:17SPEAKER50 cents per Windows install for MP3 codecs.
18:21SPEAKERSo you could download it from the internet and it worked,
18:24SPEAKERbut you couldn't make MP3s in Windows Media Encoder
18:28SPEAKERor whatever it was.
18:28SPEAKER- Do you think Fraunhofer is just like the most
18:30SPEAKERlike cash flush company on the planet?
18:32SPEAKER'Cause like when we talk about that Bluetooth LE stuff
18:34SPEAKERat a CES a couple of weeks ago,
18:35SPEAKERthey are behind that LC3 codec.
18:38SPEAKERThey're still just everywhere.
18:40SPEAKER- Yeah, I feel like those IP holding companies
18:43SPEAKERthat don't maybe...
18:44SPEAKERI think Fraunhofer actually does research.
18:46SPEAKERSome of those companies just buy the research.
18:48SPEAKER- I'm not saying they're like a bunch of snake oil salesmen.
18:49SPEAKERI mean, I'm sure they are legitimate codec experts.
18:52SPEAKER- Well, but like, this is why--
18:53SPEAKER- They're code experts.
18:54SPEAKER(laughing)
18:55SPEAKER- This is why Google developed WebM, right?
18:58SPEAKERWebM and Ogg Vorbis and all that stuff.
19:01SPEAKERThat's why big companies support that
19:03SPEAKERis 'cause they want to use those codecs natively
19:05SPEAKERso they don't have to pay.
19:06SPEAKERSo YouTube doesn't have to pay to encode the videos
19:08SPEAKERand Android doesn't have to pay to decode the videos, right?
19:11SPEAKERSo anyway, the TLDR is that MP4 supports,
19:16SPEAKERhas pretty good audio and video support,
19:18SPEAKERbut is lacking on subtitles
19:21SPEAKERand also like film quality movie containers.
19:24SPEAKERSo like you can't put a true DTS HD stream
19:31SPEAKERin an MP4 container, but Matryoshka MKV, no problem.
19:36SPEAKERIt'll take whatever.
19:37SPEAKER- Subtitles for days.
19:38SPEAKERThat's why it is the-- - And soft subtitles, yeah.
19:40SPEAKER- In case you are looking to pirate a bunch of anime,
19:43SPEAKERwell, with fan subtitles, MKV is for you.
19:46SPEAKER- You can just, well, so also,
19:49SPEAKERif you want to rip a bunch of DVDs
19:51SPEAKERand you want to save the director's commentaries
19:52SPEAKERthat are on there,
19:53SPEAKERMP4 doesn't let you do multiple audio streams.
19:55SPEAKER- Right, there are definitely other use cases as well.
19:58SPEAKER- Yeah, so like when I ripped--
20:00SPEAKER- Yeah, like ripping your movies,
20:01SPEAKERripping Blu-rays to your Plex library,
20:03SPEAKERyou can stick the audio commentary in there as well.
20:06SPEAKER- Quite easily.
20:07SPEAKER- Or you can rip a stereo.
20:10SPEAKERYou can rip the assistive here,
20:12SPEAKERthe vision assisted audio track
20:14SPEAKERso it describes what's going on.
20:15SPEAKERAnd like, it's just a more flexible container.
20:19SPEAKERThe other part of this is that the support for playback
20:22SPEAKERis much broader if you use a server to play it
20:25SPEAKER'cause the server can do the transcode.
20:29SPEAKERChanging a video on the fly and re-encoding the video
20:32SPEAKERis computationally expensive.
20:34SPEAKERChanging it from like an MP4,
20:36SPEAKERlike taking a Matryoshka container,
20:38SPEAKERan MKB container that has all the stuff you want
20:40SPEAKERand then only putting the two streams that you need
20:43SPEAKERand the subtitles burned in
20:44SPEAKERis a much lighter computational task.
20:47SPEAKERSo like, then you can play it natively on the iPhone
20:49SPEAKERor the Apple TV or whatever, it doesn't support natively.
20:51SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm glad you brought that stuff up
20:53SPEAKERbecause if you care about this stuff
20:55SPEAKERand you want to learn and you kind of get your hands wet,
20:57SPEAKERhands, feet wet, feet, that's the feet.
20:59SPEAKER- Hands dirty, feet wet.
21:00SPEAKER- The feet are what go in the water.
21:02SPEAKER- I got my feet wet the other day.
21:03SPEAKER- Soak your feet while you're playing with video formats.
21:05SPEAKERI would, no matter what OS you're on,
21:07SPEAKERI would highly recommend downloading FFmpeg.
21:09SPEAKER- Yes.
21:10SPEAKER- I mean, you mentioned before this, like Handbrake.
21:13SPEAKER- Handbrake is great.
21:14SPEAKER- Handbrake will give you a GUI
21:15SPEAKERthat can do a lot of this stuff too, but I just have,
21:18SPEAKERI've experienced something of a command line renaissance
21:20SPEAKERin the last couple of years.
21:21SPEAKERI'm really into the flexibility of a command line.
21:26SPEAKERBut FFmpeg comes with some other tools.
21:30SPEAKERLike there's FFprobe that you can run on a video file.
21:33SPEAKER- So you can find, like if it's not playing audio
21:36SPEAKERand you don't know why you can look at FFprobe
21:38SPEAKERto find out what the audio codec is.
21:40SPEAKER- Yeah, so it'll just spit out a nice readout of like,
21:42SPEAKERhere are the audio and video streams in this file.
21:44SPEAKERLike forget what the extension is, that means some things,
21:47SPEAKERbut then like, oh, the actual video in this is encoded
21:49SPEAKERin AVC and like, oh, the audio is like AAC at 256 kilobit
21:54SPEAKERor something like that.
21:55SPEAKERAnd that's where, and then you can use something
21:57SPEAKERlike FFmpeg or I think Handbrake.
21:59SPEAKER- Handbrake will transcode pretty much anything at this point.
22:02SPEAKER- To do what you want.
22:02SPEAKERSo it's not even transcoding, it's just re-containering.
22:04SPEAKER- Yeah, so usually I think I re-container using VLC
22:08SPEAKER'cause you can do that really easily in there.
22:09SPEAKER- I would be surprised if there's a bunch of tools
22:10SPEAKERfor that stuff.
22:11SPEAKERI've just kind of gotten used to doing it with command line.
22:13SPEAKERThe point is you're, like you said, I mean,
22:15SPEAKERjust to give a little more context,
22:16SPEAKERyou're passing through those already encoded video
22:20SPEAKERand audio streams and just putting them
22:21SPEAKERin a different file format.
22:22SPEAKERSo you don't have to re-crunch all the actual encoding.
22:25SPEAKER- But if you put like a Plex server or a Kodi server
22:27SPEAKERor something like that on your PC,
22:31SPEAKERyou don't even have to have a server.
22:32SPEAKERYou can just run Plex on your Windows machine, the server,
22:35SPEAKERand then it will automatically do the transpose for you.
22:38SPEAKERIt's like, oh, I know, I speak this,
22:40SPEAKERI can convert this to that.
22:41SPEAKERAnd it does all the FFmpeg work for you.
22:43SPEAKER- The reason I've gotten into this stuff is we work
22:45SPEAKERwith enough video formats that it's super useful
22:47SPEAKERif you have say, oh, I have a file and I want to use,
22:50SPEAKERI know I want to spit out a clip of 30 seconds of it.
22:53SPEAKERYou just do it that way and then you just,
22:55SPEAKERyou get the clip in 10 seconds as opposed
22:56SPEAKERto having to actually re-encode the file.
22:59SPEAKER- Yeah.
23:00SPEAKER- Waiting 20, 30, 20 minutes or whatever it is.
23:03SPEAKER- That's one of those things, yeah.
23:06SPEAKERIf you get video from weird places, like for example,
23:09SPEAKERpress sites, it's a very handy thing to have.
23:11SPEAKER- Yes, for sure.
23:14SPEAKERAll right, we're just going to keep going down
23:16SPEAKERthis PC rabbit hole.
23:17SPEAKER- Okay.
23:18SPEAKER- Let's talk about XMP profiles.
23:19SPEAKER- Oh, I love that.
23:20SPEAKER- Like RAM timings.
23:21SPEAKER- Yeah, give me that CAS3 latency.
23:24SPEAKER- This is from Dwayne.
23:25SPEAKER- Hello, Dwayne.
23:26SPEAKERRecently, I bought various DDR4 16 gigabyte kits
23:30SPEAKERfor a couple home computers.
23:31SPEAKERBoth kits are DDR3200 rated.
23:34SPEAKERHowever, when I put them into their respective computers,
23:36SPEAKERI can't get the machines to post
23:38SPEAKERwhen I try to use the XMP profiles.
23:40SPEAKERI looked and these specific modules
23:42SPEAKERare not on my motherboards QVL lists, whatever that is.
23:46SPEAKER- Qualified vendor list.
23:47SPEAKER- Yes, also both are AMD Ryzen systems,
23:50SPEAKERnot Intel, if that matters.
23:51SPEAKER- Yes.
23:52SPEAKER- It definitely mattered back in the day.
23:53SPEAKERI assume it still matters. - 100% matters.
23:55SPEAKER- Stock speeds, one kit is DDR4 2400.
23:59SPEAKERThe other is 2166.
24:01SPEAKERHe mentions that the 2400 is by team group.
24:03SPEAKERThe 2166 is by G skill.
24:06SPEAKERIf I use a utility like CPU-Z,
24:08SPEAKERI can see the SPD information and I see various JEDEC,
24:12SPEAKERdo people pronounce it that way?
24:13SPEAKER- JEDEC, yeah.
24:13SPEAKER- Type of profiles and then on another tab,
24:15SPEAKERI think I see what is the actual timings
24:17SPEAKERthe memory is running at.
24:19SPEAKERI have read articles about RAM timings and XMP
24:21SPEAKERand still my head spins.
24:24SPEAKERI see things that XMP may not work well on AMD
24:27SPEAKERand I'm wondering if I am losing anything
24:29SPEAKERif I can't get those higher memory speeds.
24:31SPEAKER- So I haven't actually built a Ryzen system yet.
24:35SPEAKERI probably need to do that.
24:36SPEAKER- I have not either.
24:37SPEAKER- But the thing everyone who I know
24:39SPEAKERwho has built a Ryzen system tells me
24:42SPEAKERis that Ryzen is more sensitive to good RAM
24:45SPEAKERthan any other architecture in modern history.
24:48SPEAKER- Like in the recent history, because back in the day,
24:50SPEAKERlike I loved the kind of decade or whatever I spent on AMD,
24:54SPEAKERspecifically because of the bang for the buck aspect.
24:57SPEAKERBut that was one of the things that pushed me back to Intel
24:59SPEAKERwas things like, you really have to care about
25:02SPEAKERnot just what brand of memory you could put,
25:04SPEAKERwhat model and what the timings are,
25:05SPEAKER'cause it's gonna be super finicky
25:07SPEAKERabout what RAM it'll boot with.
25:09SPEAKERYou know, the drivers for your USB controller
25:12SPEAKERon your motherboard might not be great or even existent.
25:15SPEAKER- So that stuff is better.
25:16SPEAKERThe USB controller and stuff is my understanding
25:17SPEAKERis that the chipsets are generally better.
25:18SPEAKER- 'Cause I think AMD is making their own chipsets now, right?
25:21SPEAKERLike back in the day, it was like VIA or some third party
25:24SPEAKERmaking the motherboard chip set for the AMD boards.
25:27SPEAKER- I think AMD always had, there was a period of time
25:30SPEAKERwhen they definitely didn't make their own chipsets
25:31SPEAKERand then they were like, this is a mistake,
25:32SPEAKERwe gotta make our own chipsets.
25:33SPEAKER- I mean, this was like 20 years ago.
25:34SPEAKER- Yeah, so would the Ryzen specifically,
25:37SPEAKERthey're really sensitive to RAM timings
25:38SPEAKERbecause of the number of cores and stuff
25:39SPEAKERthat you have on there,
25:40SPEAKERthe amount of data that goes across those buses.
25:42SPEAKER- That makes sense.
25:44SPEAKER- I would say, like aside from changing
25:47SPEAKERyour physical hard drive platters to an SSD,
25:49SPEAKERgetting good memory is one of the things,
25:51SPEAKERgetting enough and getting good memory
25:53SPEAKERis probably the next biggest,
25:55SPEAKERlike this is going to make my computer feel faster
25:57SPEAKERin stuff like launching applications
26:00SPEAKERand booting up and hitting the Windows logo
26:02SPEAKERand stuff like that, hitting the Windows button.
26:03SPEAKER- I always felt like, and again,
26:05SPEAKERthis was maybe outdated information
26:07SPEAKERlike 10 years ago or something.
26:07SPEAKERI always felt like people said that the speed
26:10SPEAKERthat your memory ran at was like a fun number to obsess over,
26:13SPEAKERbut in practical terms really didn't make
26:14SPEAKERmore than like a couple percent of difference,
26:16SPEAKERbut maybe things have changed.
26:17SPEAKER- So for a long time that was the case.
26:19SPEAKERThe big thing that's changed is Unreal Engine games
26:21SPEAKERare very memory bandwidth limited, is my understanding.
26:25SPEAKERAnd I don't know if that's universal,
26:26SPEAKERbut for example, PUBG is the example
26:31SPEAKERthat comes to mind immediately
26:32SPEAKERbecause I spend a lot of time trying
26:33SPEAKERto make that a little bit faster.
26:35SPEAKERYou get like a one-to-one percentage improvement
26:38SPEAKERon faster RAM timings on that.
26:40SPEAKERIf you're assuming that your video card performance
26:43SPEAKERis gated, you're not hitting video card bottlenecks
26:47SPEAKERor CPU bottlenecks.
26:48SPEAKERSo, okay, so there's a bunch of stuff to explain here.
26:54SPEAKERJEDEC is the organization, the industry standards body
26:57SPEAKERthat determines RAM timings and speeds.
26:59SPEAKER- It's another one of those consortiums.
27:00SPEAKER- Yeah, and part of the challenge is that they only specify
27:03SPEAKERup to a certain point and then anything beyond
27:06SPEAKERthe highest JEDEC standard is basically just
27:09SPEAKERlike the CPU motherboard vendor and the memory people saying,
27:12SPEAKER"Hey, we can run at this speed reliably
27:15SPEAKERif these things are set right."
27:16SPEAKER- Yeah, and from what I've seen,
27:18SPEAKERthe JEDEC specs are pretty conservative, right?
27:20SPEAKER- Yeah, like 2,400, I think is as high as it goes right now.
27:23SPEAKERAnd you can buy 4,000 megahertz memory at this point.
27:28SPEAKER- I mean, they're prioritizing stability
27:29SPEAKERand functionality over speed, right?
27:32SPEAKER- Yeah, well, they do.
27:33SPEAKER- It's like these timings and the speed,
27:35SPEAKERyou will be able to run your computer.
27:36SPEAKER- And they do RAM for embedded stuff too.
27:39SPEAKERIt's not just PC RAM that they care about.
27:40SPEAKERThey care about all RAM is my understanding.
27:42SPEAKERSo, okay, what the SPD stuff does is basically says,
27:49SPEAKER"Hey, here's known good settings.
27:51SPEAKERLike this is what we promise you this will run at
27:55SPEAKERif you put it in a compatible motherboard."
27:57SPEAKERThe problem that this person has is that they bought memory
28:00SPEAKERoff of the qualified vendors list.
28:02SPEAKERAnd so the bad news is probably they're gonna have to get
28:04SPEAKERnew memory to get it to run at the speeds
28:06SPEAKERthat they want it to run at.
28:07SPEAKERYou may be able to clock it down and increase the voltage
28:10SPEAKERto whatever the motherboard's expecting,
28:12SPEAKERthe CPU is expecting.
28:13SPEAKERBut the thing everybody says is buy only off the QVL.
28:18SPEAKERAnd just to be clear,
28:19SPEAKERthat's good advice for Intel users too.
28:21SPEAKERLike you should not buy memory
28:23SPEAKERthat your motherboard manufacturer has not said,
28:25SPEAKER"Hey, this will work on our motherboard."
28:26SPEAKER- Yeah, I think just in practical terms though,
28:28SPEAKERthe Intel compatibility is good enough
28:30SPEAKERthat I just haven't looked at that list
28:31SPEAKERin the last three builds and never had a problem.
28:35SPEAKER- But it's because Intel's the default,
28:36SPEAKERnot because it's because people build their stuff for Intel
28:39SPEAKERand then, "Oh, also we support AMD."
28:41SPEAKERNot, you know, not, it's not like Intel's any,
28:45SPEAKER- It's just a matter of testing, right?
28:47SPEAKERIt's testing and compatibility stuff.
28:50SPEAKER- Yes.
28:51SPEAKER- So this is a little bit of a digression,
28:55SPEAKERbut kind of following up on the NAS episode last week,
28:59SPEAKERlike the FreeNAS people will tell you pretty directly,
29:01SPEAKER"Hey, you should run this on Intel."
29:03SPEAKER- Yeah.
29:03SPEAKER- Because the driver support, the general hardware support
29:06SPEAKERin FreeBSD is so much better on Intel.
29:08SPEAKERAnd it's not that, it's not that Intel is, like you said,
29:10SPEAKERit's not an inherently superior platform.
29:12SPEAKERIt's just, that's where all the work has gone into,
29:15SPEAKERyou know, making those drivers mature and testing stuff
29:17SPEAKERand making sure it all works.
29:18SPEAKER- They have a bigger, a much bigger portion of market
29:21SPEAKERacross that and across the stuff
29:24SPEAKERthat FreeBSD people care about.
29:25SPEAKER- Yeah.
29:26SPEAKER- The other thing is,
29:28SPEAKERunless you know what this stuff means
29:31SPEAKERin the memory timing settings of your BIOS.
29:33SPEAKER- God, what is it?
29:35SPEAKER- Cast to less, cast latency and all that stuff.
29:38SPEAKER- There's like three or four different ones?
29:40SPEAKER- No, there's way more than that.
29:41SPEAKER- Oh, now, okay.
29:42SPEAKER- And there's voltage.
29:42SPEAKERSo SPD controls voltage, timings, clock speeds,
29:47SPEAKERall of that stuff.
29:49SPEAKERAnd like those settings basically involve,
29:52SPEAKERlike if you think about memory, like cells in a spreadsheet,
29:55SPEAKERthere's rows and columns in the memory cells
29:58SPEAKERand those timings that control how many clock refreshes
30:01SPEAKERit takes to scan across an entire row
30:03SPEAKERand how long it takes to reset a row.
30:05SPEAKERAnd they're like, it's all this crazy esoteric stuff.
30:08SPEAKERYou really don't need to know about it at all
30:10SPEAKERunless you're doing really serious overclocking.
30:13SPEAKERAnd so like, don't worry about the individual settings,
30:16SPEAKERjust get memory that's on your QBL, set it to the SPD.
30:21SPEAKERIf you have to choose, this is a controversial opinion.
30:26SPEAKERMy feeling is that clock speed for games
30:28SPEAKERis more important than latency.
30:30SPEAKERSo like anything else you have to choose,
30:31SPEAKERbut when you're buying memory,
30:32SPEAKERyou choose between whether you want low latency,
30:34SPEAKERwhich means it refreshes each cell faster
30:37SPEAKERand can read and write more times per clock cycle
30:41SPEAKERor clock speed, which is just like the size
30:44SPEAKERof the amount of data going through the pipe
30:46SPEAKERat any given moment is higher.
30:49SPEAKERFor games, the bandwidth seems better.
30:52SPEAKERSo higher clock speeds seem better than lower latency.
30:55SPEAKER- Huh, okay.
30:57SPEAKER- If you have specific workloads that might vary.
30:59SPEAKER- Okay. - So yeah.
31:00SPEAKER- Interesting, did we say what an XMP profile is?
31:03SPEAKERI mean, it's basically just a preset,
31:04SPEAKERit's just a preset embedded in the DIMM.
31:06SPEAKER- Yes. - It's like it tells
31:07SPEAKERthe motherboard like, hey, these are what
31:09SPEAKERthe manufacturer thinks are known good settings for this.
31:11SPEAKER- So the SPD is the physical chip on the RAM
31:14SPEAKERthat holds that information.
31:15SPEAKERThe XMP profile is what lives inside the chip.
31:17SPEAKERI use the terms interchangeably.
31:19SPEAKERSorry, I should have been more clear.
31:20SPEAKER- So generally, if you buy off the list--
31:23SPEAKER- The XMP profile should be fine.
31:25SPEAKER- Can you assume that the XMP profile is, yeah.
31:26SPEAKER- Yeah, sometimes. - That's what I've done
31:28SPEAKERfor the last, I don't know, 10 years.
31:29SPEAKER- So the only catch to that is some vendors
31:32SPEAKERwill do a thing where they put two XMP profiles in the SPD,
31:36SPEAKERand one will be like the JEDEC highest setting,
31:40SPEAKERwhich will be like 2133 or 2400,
31:42SPEAKERand one will be the actual maximum rated speed for the RAM.
31:48SPEAKERAnd then the other thing is generally it's better to buy,
31:53SPEAKERyou wanna fill all the channels in your motherboard.
31:54SPEAKERSo if you have a dual channel memory motherboard
31:56SPEAKERor a quad channel or a tri channel,
31:58SPEAKERyou wanna get the right,
32:00SPEAKERyou wanna put three chips in there,
32:02SPEAKER'cause if you don't, then you'll run it at 2/3 or 1/2
32:04SPEAKERor whatever the speed.
32:06SPEAKER- You want that interleaving.
32:07SPEAKER- Yeah, but also more sticks,
32:10SPEAKERlike if you can avoid populating all the slots,
32:12SPEAKERyou're probably better off,
32:13SPEAKER'cause that tends to make it a little bit less stable.
32:15SPEAKER- Yeah, indeed.
32:17SPEAKERAll right, that's a lot about RAM.
32:19SPEAKER- Yeah, memories.
32:21SPEAKER- How about, I don't know any more of that song.
32:25SPEAKER- Here's an email from Terry.
32:27SPEAKERWith the advent of VR, I now want my desktop in two places,
32:31SPEAKERthe living room for VR and my office for more workday uses,
32:35SPEAKERwhich is two floors away.
32:36SPEAKERI'm fine putting the PC in either location,
32:38SPEAKERbut would like to be able to use it in both
32:41SPEAKERand preferably be able to power up and down
32:43SPEAKERfrom both locations.
32:45SPEAKERAny recommendations on how to have one PC power
32:49SPEAKERboth setups within one house?
32:51SPEAKERAnd he didn't mention it in the actual body,
32:53SPEAKERbut the subject line of the email
32:54SPEAKERis long distance KVM options.
32:56SPEAKER- So he wants to do VR in the living room
33:00SPEAKERand play games upstairs?
33:02SPEAKER- That sounds right.
33:03SPEAKER- And he uses it upstairs as a real computer.
33:05SPEAKER- Yeah, the rooms are two floors away,
33:06SPEAKERbut he wants access to the PC in both.
33:08SPEAKERSo is a KVM what I think it is?
33:11SPEAKERIt's like, it's just a switch for keyboard, mouse, and video.
33:13SPEAKER- It's not just a switch.
33:14SPEAKERThat's the thing.
33:15SPEAKER- Is there more to it than that?
33:16SPEAKERI've never used one.
33:17SPEAKER- So a KVM, people use them in server rooms a lot,
33:19SPEAKERbecause if you have like 20 servers in there
33:21SPEAKERand you want to be able to plug them all
33:22SPEAKERinto one monitor and mouse and keyboard,
33:23SPEAKERthen it makes it easy to do that.
33:25SPEAKERSo what a KVM does is it basically shows up
33:27SPEAKERas a keyboard, mouse, and monitor
33:29SPEAKERto each of the computers all the time and it switches.
33:32SPEAKERSo it's like a translation layer almost.
33:34SPEAKERIt doesn't actually translate,
33:37SPEAKERbut a KVM, a switch,
33:39SPEAKERif you hit the switch to switch between two machines,
33:42SPEAKERis going to turn it off on one computer
33:44SPEAKERand turn it on on the other computer.
33:45SPEAKER- Okay, in this case, I'm guessing the non-active computers
33:47SPEAKERare just getting like a null signal on all those.
33:49SPEAKER- Yeah, it's just like nothing's happening
33:50SPEAKERon the mouse and keyboard.
33:51SPEAKER- But they still think something is there.
33:52SPEAKER- They still think it's connected.
33:53SPEAKER- Interesting.
33:54SPEAKER- So the problem with that,
33:56SPEAKERespecially for people who are doing gamers,
33:58SPEAKERis it adds latency for gamers.
34:01SPEAKERIt also means that any of the extra keys on your keyboard
34:06SPEAKERor any stuff, like if you have an RGB keyboard
34:11SPEAKERthat has lights and fancy buttons and stuff,
34:13SPEAKERnone of that stuff's gonna work anymore
34:14SPEAKER'cause the KVM is just gonna strip all that stuff out
34:17SPEAKERon the way through and your computer won't even see
34:19SPEAKERthat it has the right keyboard attached.
34:20SPEAKERSo there's ways to do this.
34:25SPEAKERThere's not great ways to do this, unfortunately.
34:27SPEAKERLike you can't pipe VR stuff over the KVM
34:30SPEAKER'cause it'll add too much latency
34:31SPEAKERand it probably won't work right.
34:33SPEAKERYou might be able to do a really long HDMI cable
34:35SPEAKERor a DVI cable and like pipe that stuff over a USB
34:41SPEAKERand DVI over ethernet, you might be able to do.
34:46SPEAKERI kind of wanted to include this question
34:48SPEAKER'cause we talked about it a little bit beforehand.
34:49SPEAKERI'm curious if anybody has solutions for this.
34:51SPEAKERThe other thing you could do is put the PC
34:53SPEAKERin the living room and then use like a remote desktop
34:56SPEAKERtype solution like an Nvidia Shield type thing,
35:01SPEAKERhave a real light client in your office
35:02SPEAKERthat just remotes into that computer.
35:04SPEAKERBut I don't, that's not a terrific solution.
35:07SPEAKER- Just can always run some 30 foot cables.
35:09SPEAKER- 30 foot cables, this might be,
35:11SPEAKERBrad, this is your time to shine.
35:13SPEAKER- Stress test.
35:14SPEAKER- But you can do, I don't know if you can do the speed
35:18SPEAKERthat you need across like a HDMI
35:21SPEAKERand USB over ethernet solution,
35:23SPEAKERbut that might be a valid solution too.
35:25SPEAKERYou'll have to look and see.
35:27SPEAKERIt might just be cheaper to build two computers.
35:30SPEAKER- I kind of was, I didn't want to suggest that,
35:31SPEAKERbut that seems like the,
35:33SPEAKERif you could stomach the cost,
35:34SPEAKERthat is probably the actual best solution.
35:37SPEAKER- Like the, well, and with like Steam Remote Play
35:41SPEAKERand the Nvidia Remote Play stuff,
35:42SPEAKERif you have an Nvidia card in your gaming computer,
35:46SPEAKERyou can, like if you have a wired network,
35:49SPEAKERthat stuff works really well.
35:50SPEAKER- Yeah, I think if he didn't want VR specifically
35:52SPEAKERon one end of this, then this would be a lot easier
35:54SPEAKERto answer, you could just say, hey, do Steam Link.
35:57SPEAKER- My guess is that the VR has to be plugged directly
35:59SPEAKERinto the PC for it to work right.
36:01SPEAKERBut I don't know for sure, I haven't tried that.
36:02SPEAKER- I would believe that.
36:03SPEAKER- I would be curious, post in Discord or whatever
36:09SPEAKERand let us know if you have a solution
36:11SPEAKERor add us on Twitter, 'cause I'd be curious
36:13SPEAKERif anybody else has tried something like that.
36:15SPEAKERWe'll share it next week or the week after actually.
36:18SPEAKER- All right, this is a fun email, it's very long.
36:20SPEAKER- Okay.
36:21SPEAKER- It's full of jargon, which I love.
36:24SPEAKERAnd the person requested to be anonymous
36:26SPEAKER'cause it's about their job/place of employment.
36:29SPEAKER- Ooh, secrets.
36:31SPEAKER- But I found this stuff pretty interesting.
36:35SPEAKERI just listened to episode 16
36:36SPEAKERand thought I heard Brad mention he was very curious
36:38SPEAKERabout microchip manufacturing processes.
36:41SPEAKERI sell consumable products used in the parts
36:43SPEAKERof the wafer manufacturing process, the wafer.
36:46SPEAKER- I love a good wafer.
36:48SPEAKERWhat's your favorite wafer, Nilla?
36:49SPEAKER- Oh, I don't know, yeah, that's pretty good.
36:51SPEAKER- Like a Neko wafer?
36:52SPEAKER- A captain's wafer.
36:54SPEAKER- Ooh, yeah, that's pretty good.
36:55SPEAKERI like, does a Stroopwafel count as a wafer?
36:57SPEAKER- Oh, man.
36:58SPEAKER- Those things are the business.
36:59SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.
37:02SPEAKERSorry, what were we talking about?
37:04SPEAKERI just want some Stroopwafels.
37:05SPEAKER- I want a Stroopwafel.
37:07SPEAKER- Kind of always in that state, though.
37:08SPEAKER- Yeah, that's true.
37:09SPEAKER- I can speak a very little bit about two parts,
37:11SPEAKERback grinding and dicing.
37:13SPEAKER- Ooh.
37:14SPEAKER- Which are part of the back end
37:15SPEAKERor assembly portion of the process.
37:18SPEAKERThe wafer is a giant sheet of chips
37:21SPEAKERthat comes out of the fab, right?
37:22SPEAKER- It's a giant disk. - Just to be clear.
37:24SPEAKERIt looks like it's a perfectly flat round.
37:27SPEAKERIf you ever are near Intel's headquarters,
37:31SPEAKERthere's a museum open to the public
37:32SPEAKERwhere you can see the different dyes naked
37:36SPEAKERas they went over.
37:37SPEAKERIt's worth driving down there sometime.
37:39SPEAKER- Are they in the valley?
37:40SPEAKER- It's in there in the valley.
37:41SPEAKERYou can just walk into the front door
37:42SPEAKERand it's open to the public.
37:43SPEAKERThere's a gift shop.
37:45SPEAKERAnd yeah, you can see all the different,
37:48SPEAKERlike it starts with the 8088 and 8086
37:50SPEAKERand goes forward.
37:51SPEAKERIt's super cool.
37:53SPEAKERAnd those early chips are like,
37:54SPEAKERthey're big enough you can see the circuits, right?
37:56SPEAKER- That is extremely up my alley.
37:57SPEAKER- Yes. - I need to go see that.
37:59SPEAKERAll right.
38:00SPEAKERBack grinding is where the wafer is thinned
38:02SPEAKERby grinding away the backside,
38:04SPEAKERtypically from around 750 micro-meters
38:07SPEAKERto anywhere from 200 down to 50.
38:09SPEAKER- Wow. - Depending on the device type.
38:12SPEAKERThis is done using a diamond resin bonded grinding wheel.
38:15SPEAKER- Ooh.
38:16SPEAKER- Deionized water is used to prevent contamination.
38:19SPEAKERAlso a protective tape is typically laminated
38:21SPEAKERonto the front side of the wafer substrate.
38:23SPEAKERI love the word substrate.
38:26SPEAKEROftentimes this tape has adhesive that reacts to UV waves.
38:30SPEAKERSo when the tape is mounted to the wafer,
38:32SPEAKERit has a strong adhesive strength.
38:34SPEAKEROnce the wafer is back grinded to the appropriate thickness,
38:36SPEAKERthe wafer is placed in a curing machine
38:38SPEAKERwhere UV light passes through the tape.
38:41SPEAKERThis curing process drastically reduces
38:42SPEAKERthe adhesive strength,
38:43SPEAKERwhich makes the delamination much easier.
38:46SPEAKERThe next step after back grinding is dicing.
38:49SPEAKERThe wafer is mounted onto a dicing tape,
38:52SPEAKERalso often UV tape,
38:53SPEAKERwhere it's then cut using either mechanical blade,
38:55SPEAKERtypically diamond, or high strength laser.
38:58SPEAKER- Wow.
38:59SPEAKER- After the wafer is diced, each die is inspected,
39:02SPEAKERthe UV tape is cured to make it easy to pick up
39:05SPEAKERand then placed in a package or PCB or what have you.
39:08SPEAKERBoth of these steps require clean rooms
39:10SPEAKERand every step is automated.
39:12SPEAKERThough I have heard of process engineers
39:14SPEAKERworking on prototype designs
39:16SPEAKERwho didn't have access to a UV curing machine
39:18SPEAKERgoing outside into the Northern California sunshine
39:21SPEAKERand using the sun to cure some wafers.
39:24SPEAKER- Wow.
39:25SPEAKER- It would just take about 10 or 20 minutes
39:26SPEAKERinstead of the 60 seconds it takes with the machine.
39:29SPEAKERClean rooms aren't used only during wafer processing,
39:32SPEAKERbut even back grind and dicing tapes
39:35SPEAKERare manufactured in a clean room environment
39:37SPEAKERsince they're coming into direct contact with the wafer.
39:39SPEAKERSpeaking from personal experience,
39:41SPEAKERthose suits can be quite uncomfortable.
39:44SPEAKER- Wow, the more you know.
39:44SPEAKER- Yeah.
39:45SPEAKER- That's fascinating.
39:46SPEAKERThat's really cool kind of stuff around the fab.
39:50SPEAKER- It's, my understanding is that because we've gotten good
39:53SPEAKERat making big wafers, like huge wafers,
39:55SPEAKERlike two foot, three foot wide wafers.
39:57SPEAKER- Oh, is that, is that big?
39:58SPEAKER- They're big.
39:59SPEAKER- Oh no, I'm saying is that considered big?
40:01SPEAKER- I think, yeah.
40:02SPEAKER- I thought they were like five, six feet.
40:04SPEAKER- I have seen them that are like not full arm strength
40:08SPEAKERor arm stretch.
40:09SPEAKER- Okay.
40:09SPEAKER- Like three, four feet maybe.
40:10SPEAKERI don't know, I'm bad at sizes sometimes.
40:12SPEAKER- Do you know why they're round?
40:13SPEAKER'Cause you're not wasting material.
40:14SPEAKERWell, I guess it doesn't matter if it's just extra material.
40:15SPEAKER- 'Cause the tips are tiny.
40:17SPEAKERSo it's just like, I mean, you're always going to lose stuff
40:19SPEAKERtoward the edges is my understanding.
40:20SPEAKER- Okay.
40:21SPEAKER- So my guess is it's round because it's easy to manage.
40:24SPEAKER- Okay.
40:25SPEAKER- Maybe, maybe because the grinding process
40:26SPEAKERis a spinning process.
40:28SPEAKERI don't know.
40:29SPEAKER- I think maybe, huh.
40:30SPEAKER- Right in, techpod@content.town.
40:33SPEAKERThat's fascinating.
40:34SPEAKERThat was really fun.
40:34SPEAKER- I would love to go to a fab.
40:36SPEAKERI don't know what I would do there.
40:37SPEAKER- Keep at this.
40:38SPEAKERMaybe somebody will ask us to come up.
40:40SPEAKER- It'd be cool to see that stuff.
40:41SPEAKERHop one of the Intel flights to Beaverton.
40:46SPEAKER- Yes.
40:48SPEAKERLet's see.
40:50SPEAKERHere's an interesting one from Ryan in Medina,
40:53SPEAKERwhich is near the Cleveland, Ohio area.
40:56SPEAKER- Oh, next door to Funke and on the other side of cold,
40:59SPEAKERI believe.
41:00SPEAKER- Yes.
41:01SPEAKERHe and his wife, let's see,
41:03SPEAKERbought a house in a less populated area
41:05SPEAKERaround the Cleveland, Ohio area.
41:07SPEAKERAfter we moved in and much to my surprise,
41:08SPEAKERwe found out wired broadband internet was not available
41:11SPEAKERat our address.
41:12SPEAKER- What, it's in the suburbs?
41:13SPEAKER- Sure, there was a residence serviced by the cable company
41:16SPEAKERthree tenths of a mile away,
41:17SPEAKERbut since there were no poles between our house and theirs,
41:20SPEAKERthe cable company couldn't or wouldn't service our address.
41:24SPEAKERThe only wired option was a DSL service
41:27SPEAKERthat would range between one and three megabits down.
41:30SPEAKER- Sweet merciful jeebus.
41:31SPEAKERThis is a big city.
41:32SPEAKER- Yeah, I would be on a waiting list to get a quote,
41:35SPEAKERgood port for a 10 megabit connection.
41:38SPEAKERSo I passed on that.
41:40SPEAKERAfter much research,
41:41SPEAKERI learned there was a wireless option for our area,
41:43SPEAKERbut it requires a line of sight to the tower
41:45SPEAKERand due to the trees and elevation of our house,
41:47SPEAKERit was not available.
41:49SPEAKERAlthough again, the house a few doors down has it.
41:51SPEAKERI was hoping that Verizon's home 5G
41:53SPEAKERwould come online sooner rather than later,
41:56SPEAKERbut seeing as the rollout is so slow
41:58SPEAKERand concentrated to populated urban areas,
42:00SPEAKERI'm not holding out hope.
42:02SPEAKERSo does it all come down to SpaceX's Starlink project?
42:06SPEAKERThey stated they are looking to start service
42:07SPEAKERin the middle of the year.
42:08SPEAKERWill I finally get reliable broadband to my house?
42:12SPEAKERI'm tired of using and managing my hotspot data
42:14SPEAKERbetween work and games.
42:15SPEAKERPlease give me hope.
42:17SPEAKER- This place is literally like 16 miles from Cleveland.
42:20SPEAKER- Yeah, Cleveland is a moderate size city, right?
42:23SPEAKER- It's big.
42:24SPEAKER- I mean, I don't know how rural
42:25SPEAKERthis area he's talking about is.
42:26SPEAKER- It's part of the Rust Belt, right?
42:28SPEAKER- Infrastructure build out is, you know,
42:30SPEAKERnot the easiest thing in the world
42:31SPEAKERif you live on a mountain or something.
42:33SPEAKER- Like my parents live in the middle of nowhere in Virginia
42:35SPEAKERand it's not surprising that living between DC and Richmond
42:39SPEAKERin the country, that they don't have internet.
42:42SPEAKERBut holy hell, this is bananas.
42:43SPEAKER- Yeah, that's a rough situation to be in.
42:45SPEAKER- Yeah.
42:46SPEAKER- One, two, three megabits down.
42:48SPEAKER- Wow.
42:49SPEAKER- I always find emails like this to be a good reality check
42:52SPEAKERbecause we have such good internet out here.
42:54SPEAKER- We had several people write in from Australia, too,
42:56SPEAKERthat were like, man, you're bad internet.
42:59SPEAKERLike, just to be clear, when I had 100 down, 10 up,
43:03SPEAKER10 years ago, I was stoked.
43:05SPEAKER- Yes, same.
43:06SPEAKER- But yeah, like, it is, the internet situation
43:10SPEAKERvaries wildly even inside the United States,
43:12SPEAKERmuch less inside different countries, so.
43:16SPEAKER- I don't have a good answer for this.
43:17SPEAKERI mean, do you know much about the Starlink stuff?
43:20SPEAKERI thought it was like theoretical or just proposed.
43:22SPEAKERI didn't realize they were actually implementing it.
43:25SPEAKER- Yeah, they've launched two or three batches of satellites.
43:28SPEAKERThere's concern from astronomers
43:29SPEAKERbecause they produce maybe a lot of light.
43:31SPEAKER- Oh, yes, I remember the kind of panicky headlines.
43:35SPEAKERI mean, not that they're not warranted,
43:36SPEAKERbut a lot of the news stories going around of like,
43:39SPEAKERhey, this SpaceX internet project
43:41SPEAKERis going to make actual astrophysics a lot harder.
43:43SPEAKER- Yeah, so the upshot is it'll be lower latency
43:47SPEAKERthan existing satellite stuff
43:48SPEAKER'cause it's not geosynchronous.
43:50SPEAKERSo like the current, like the Hughes satellite
43:52SPEAKERthat everybody's had and that was used on airplanes
43:54SPEAKERand stuff for a long time is satellites
43:58SPEAKERin geosynchronous orbit.
43:59SPEAKERAnd as a result, the geosynchronous orbit
44:03SPEAKERis very far away versus low Earth orbit,
44:05SPEAKERwhich is like 100 kilometers straight up.
44:08SPEAKERSo the time of flight is way lower with Starlink
44:11SPEAKERand presumably the power requirements
44:13SPEAKERfor the transmitters and stuff will be lower
44:14SPEAKER'cause it's closer.
44:15SPEAKERSo, I mean, I don't know.
44:18SPEAKERTLDR is it's supposed to be better,
44:19SPEAKERbut I don't know if it's gonna be usable.
44:21SPEAKER- Is the trade off here a number of required satellites?
44:23SPEAKER- They have to have a fuck ton of satellites.
44:26SPEAKER- That's what it sounds like.
44:27SPEAKER- I mean, and it's one of those things
44:28SPEAKERthat like it didn't make financial sense
44:30SPEAKERuntil SpaceX started getting the price
44:33SPEAKERof launching a kilogram down a lot.
44:36SPEAKER- Do you know what is that now?
44:36SPEAKER- No, I saw something that was like,
44:39SPEAKERwow, that's surprisingly cheap.
44:40SPEAKER- I always heard it in pounds,
44:41SPEAKERbut wasn't it like the classically,
44:43SPEAKERwasn't it like $10,000 a pound or something like that?
44:45SPEAKER- At least, I think that was the goal for the space shuttle
44:48SPEAKERthat they never got close to.
44:51SPEAKERBut by reusing the rockets there,
44:52SPEAKERthe upshot is by reusing the rockets and the fairings
44:54SPEAKERand as much as they can,
44:56SPEAKERthings are much cheaper to launch now, which is good.
44:59SPEAKER- More satellites, just gonna get that Kessler syndrome
45:01SPEAKERgoing even earlier.
45:03SPEAKER- Wait, what's the Kessler syndrome?
45:05SPEAKERIs this about that?
45:06SPEAKER- No. - Okay.
45:07SPEAKER- I don't think it's named.
45:08SPEAKERWe could ask him, he might have something to do with it.
45:09SPEAKERIt's basically a runaway cascade of debris in orbit
45:13SPEAKERcausing more debris in orbit until--
45:15SPEAKER- Everything's gone.
45:16SPEAKER- Until there is just a shell of whirling razor blade
45:18SPEAKERsharp metal shards flying around the earth
45:21SPEAKERand we can't launch any more satellites.
45:22SPEAKER- The gravity thing. - Yeah.
45:23SPEAKER- Yeah, I saw that.
45:24SPEAKERGeorge Clooney was great.
45:25SPEAKER- The idea is enough stuff in orbit gets destroyed
45:29SPEAKER'cause things in orbit are moving very fast
45:31SPEAKERand if instead of a satellite,
45:33SPEAKERit gets turned into just a cloud of jagged metal,
45:35SPEAKERthen it collides with more stuff
45:37SPEAKERand then it's a runaway effect of things in orbit
45:41SPEAKERdestroying more things in orbit
45:42SPEAKERuntil everything is just razor blades.
45:45SPEAKER- So this is like a Scott Manley/Kerbal question,
45:48SPEAKERbut do you think we launch all,
45:51SPEAKERlike everybody launches their stuff
45:52SPEAKERto go in the same direction
45:54SPEAKERbecause of the way the earth spins?
45:56SPEAKER- No.
45:57SPEAKER- 'Cause it seems like if somebody launched one thing
45:58SPEAKERthat goes the other direction, that might be real bad.
46:01SPEAKER- Maybe.
46:01SPEAKERWell, I may be very much,
46:03SPEAKERand I definitely am actually talking about it
46:05SPEAKERout of my depth here,
46:06SPEAKERbut isn't it easier to reach escape velocity
46:10SPEAKERif you launch with the rotation of the earth?
46:12SPEAKER- Yeah, I think that's why all of our launch,
46:14SPEAKERI think that's why we launch out of Florida
46:16SPEAKERrather than California.
46:17SPEAKER- I think that is because it's easier
46:19SPEAKERto launch near the equator.
46:21SPEAKERYou need less force.
46:22SPEAKER- Right.
46:22SPEAKER- And that's the--
46:23SPEAKER- Yeah, that's because the earth is spinning more
46:25SPEAKERat those latitudes, it's spinning faster.
46:27SPEAKER- Yeah, I think that's right.
46:29SPEAKER- I played a lot of Kerbal.
46:30SPEAKER(laughing)
46:31SPEAKER- Played some.
46:32SPEAKER- So I'm an expert.
46:32SPEAKER- I played none, so I'm even less of an expert.
46:34SPEAKER- Oh, wow, you should play Kerbal, it's really good.
46:35SPEAKER- Yeah, I should check that out.
46:37SPEAKER- Save, it's a hot new title.
46:38SPEAKER- Yeah.
46:40SPEAKER- I think, do you think that's it?
46:41SPEAKERDo you think we gotta, do you wanna do one more?
46:45SPEAKERGot anything else?
46:46SPEAKER- Let's see.
46:47SPEAKERYes, here's one more email.
46:48SPEAKER- Okay.
46:49SPEAKER- It's from Carlos in Memphis, Tennessee.
46:51SPEAKERThis, based on our pre-show chatter,
46:54SPEAKERthis sounds like a controversial topic.
46:57SPEAKERI was listening to your most recent episode
46:58SPEAKERabout CES and beyond meats.
47:01SPEAKERWhen one of you mentioned that you can't make meatloaf
47:03SPEAKERwithout beef and pork.
47:05SPEAKERThat piqued my taste buds
47:07SPEAKERbecause my wife's family recipe is beef only
47:10SPEAKERand we both enjoy it.
47:11SPEAKERAlthough now I feel like I've been missing out.
47:14SPEAKERIs there a particular recipe for meatloaf
47:16SPEAKERwith beef and pork that you recommend?
47:18SPEAKERI have to confess.
47:19SPEAKERI'm in the same boat.
47:21SPEAKER- Wow, really?
47:22SPEAKER- It is him.
47:22SPEAKERI'm pretty sure growing up that our meatloaf was beef only.
47:25SPEAKER- Well, so growing up, my meatloaf,
47:26SPEAKERmy mom made microwave meatloaf, which is a nightmare.
47:28SPEAKERIt's just a pile of ground beef with some tomato sauce
47:31SPEAKERand a little bit of vinegar and maybe Worcestershire
47:33SPEAKERmixed up in the tomato sauce.
47:34SPEAKER- But this is not an off the shelf product, right?
47:36SPEAKERIt's still homemade.
47:37SPEAKER- Oh, homemade.
47:38SPEAKER- Just cooked in the microwave?
47:40SPEAKER- You cook it in the microwave oven in a pile.
47:42SPEAKERIt's not even in like a, it's not even like a bread dish.
47:45SPEAKER- It's not even a loaf.
47:47SPEAKER- Let me tell you.
47:48SPEAKERI did not like meatloaf until I went to visit
47:50SPEAKERmy friend Justin in Phoenix, Arizona in college.
47:52SPEAKERAnd his mom was like,
47:53SPEAKERhey, we're going away for a couple of days.
47:55SPEAKERYou guys have the house, don't burn it down.
47:57SPEAKERI made a meatloaf for you.
47:58SPEAKERI was like, oh shit, I don't want meatloaf.
48:00SPEAKER- You didn't know what you were missing.
48:01SPEAKER- And I had a slice of meatloaf and I was like,
48:07SPEAKERthis is a taste sensation.
48:10SPEAKERThere's so much stuff.
48:11SPEAKERSo I got the recipe from her.
48:12SPEAKER- It's a hearty home cooking kind of thing.
48:14SPEAKER- She did it with ground beef
48:17SPEAKERand like a pound of Jimmy Dean sausage.
48:19SPEAKERIt was her pork.
48:20SPEAKER- Wow.
48:21SPEAKER- Over the years, that recipe involves draining
48:25SPEAKERthe grease off multiple times throughout the baking process.
48:27SPEAKERSo you don't light the oven on fire.
48:29SPEAKERWe have switched to the America's Test Kitchen recipe,
48:32SPEAKERwhich uses pork, beef, mostly beef.
48:36SPEAKERIt's like, I don't remember off the top of my head.
48:38SPEAKERYou can look it up on the internet,
48:39SPEAKERbut their recipe was like two parts beef,
48:42SPEAKERone part pork, half a part veal.
48:45SPEAKER- Ooh.
48:47SPEAKER- I'm a little like,
48:48SPEAKERI'm usually down with eating small animals,
48:50SPEAKERbut the veal is a little rough.
48:52SPEAKERSo we don't usually do the veal,
48:53SPEAKERbut just the pork and the beef is real good.
48:57SPEAKERAnd it gives it a little bit more of a,
49:01SPEAKERI don't know, it just has a little bit more of a,
49:02SPEAKERit has a porky flavor.
49:03SPEAKERWho doesn't love a little pork?
49:04SPEAKER- Oh yeah.
49:05SPEAKER- Yeah, that's where I'm at.
49:06SPEAKER- What's your feeling on ketchup?
49:08SPEAKERDoes it belong?
49:08SPEAKER- I like a glaze that is based on ketchup.
49:11SPEAKER- Okay.
49:11SPEAKER- But I'll put like a little cider vinegar,
49:12SPEAKERsome Worcestershire, maybe a little brown sugar,
49:14SPEAKERmolasses in there, mix it all up, heat it up.
49:16SPEAKERI want to fill that out a little bit.
49:17SPEAKER- Yeah, so the other controversial thing
49:20SPEAKERabout the American test kitchen recipes,
49:21SPEAKERthey do a mound too.
49:22SPEAKERThey don't do it in a thing, so it can drain.
49:25SPEAKERSo you don't, it's not super greasy.
49:26SPEAKER- So are they not binding it with like bread crumbs
49:28SPEAKERor something like that?
49:29SPEAKER- Yeah, there's panko.
49:30SPEAKER- Okay.
49:31SPEAKER- Panko, I don't think they do mushrooms.
49:32SPEAKERI like a mushroom in there.
49:34SPEAKERBut like a panko, an egg, egg yolks.
49:38SPEAKER- I haven't eaten lunch yet.
49:39SPEAKER- You need to make some meatloaf.
49:40SPEAKER- Sounds really, gotta get out of here.
49:42SPEAKER- The best part about the meatloaf
49:44SPEAKERis the meatloaf sando.
49:45SPEAKER- Get a nice crusty French bread, slice of meatloaf,
49:48SPEAKERsome mayonnaise, some ketchup.
49:50SPEAKER- A meatloaf sandwich, as a wise man once said.
49:53SPEAKER- Yeah, that sounds really good.
49:56SPEAKER- Thanks for sending the letters, everybody.
49:58SPEAKERWe got a lot of good ones this week.
49:59SPEAKER- Yes, we did.
50:00SPEAKERWe got more than we had time to read.
50:01SPEAKER- We will do more Qs and As in another month.
50:06SPEAKERBut if you like the show, send us a message on Twitter.
50:08SPEAKERWe're a sweatpants tech pod.
50:10SPEAKEROr I'm Will Smith.
50:12SPEAKER- Yes, I'm Brad Shoemaker.
50:13SPEAKERiTunes reviews are good.
50:14SPEAKERiTunes reviews, it turns out, telling your friends.
50:17SPEAKERI saw a lot of people telling their friends on Twitter
50:19SPEAKERabout the podcast this week, and that made me very happy.
50:21SPEAKERSo let's keep that up.
50:22SPEAKERLet's get, you know, let's get sweatpants tech pod trending
50:24SPEAKERso people are really fucking confused.
50:25SPEAKER- Highly gratifying.
50:27SPEAKER- Yeah, to know that anybody listens to this stuff.
50:29SPEAKERThat's exactly it.
50:30SPEAKERWe'll see y'all next week.
50:31SPEAKER(upbeat music)
50:44SPEAKER(upbeat music)