120: What Comes After

00:00SPEAKERI've gotten you a gift.

00:01SPEAKER- Ooh.

00:02SPEAKER- It's a book.

00:03SPEAKER- Okay.

00:04SPEAKER- It's entitled,

00:06SPEAKER"So you've decided to ship a video game."

00:08SPEAKER- Oh.

00:09SPEAKER- I'm hoping it will be helpful to you in the coming days.

00:13SPEAKER- Well, yeah, we are,

00:17SPEAKERit's, let's see, at this point we're about,

00:19SPEAKERas we record this, we're about 112 hours away, I think.

00:22SPEAKER- Oh my, is that where you're at?

00:23SPEAKERThat you were counting by hours, not by days or weeks?

00:25SPEAKER- I just, literally before we started recording,

00:27SPEAKERI did a tweet to somebody as a,

00:30SPEAKER'cause they were like, "I can't wait for the game to come out."

00:31SPEAKERI was like, "Look, it's only 115 hours, you'll be fine."

00:33SPEAKER- This feels like, suddenly this feels like

00:35SPEAKERa military or disaster situation.

00:37SPEAKER- No, no, no, it's, so like, okay,

00:40SPEAKERI don't want to get into specifics.

00:42SPEAKERAt some point maybe we'll have somebody on from the team

00:44SPEAKERand we'll, we'll actually, we'll talk about specifics

00:46SPEAKERof how stuff works, 'cause it's kind of neat.

00:49SPEAKERBut like, apparently there's always ups and downs,

00:51SPEAKERthere's always things that you're like,

00:52SPEAKER"Oh shit, is this going to work?"

00:53SPEAKERAnd then you get to the point and it does,

00:55SPEAKERthrough hard work and blood, sweat, and tears.

00:59SPEAKERBut yeah, like we are shipping the Anacrusis

01:02SPEAKERon Thursday at 10 a.m. Pacific time

01:04SPEAKERto steam the Microsoft platform Xbox, Series X, Series S,

01:12SPEAKERXbox One, the Microsoft Store, and EGS as well.

01:16SPEAKER- The Xbox family of consoles.

01:18SPEAKER- Yes, the, well, the two most recent,

01:20SPEAKERthe two youngest of the Xbox family of consoles, I guess.

01:24SPEAKERI got to play the game on a retail Xbox last night

01:27SPEAKERfor the first time, which is really cool.

01:29SPEAKER- That must feel good.

01:30SPEAKER- Like, I'm going to go and tell you.

01:32SPEAKERSo I think we talked about this a little bit,

01:33SPEAKERbut like when we shipped the Foo Show on Steam

01:36SPEAKERand I was like, you know, copying and pasting stuff

01:39SPEAKERinside the Steam backend and like using their CMS

01:42SPEAKERto update the store pages, hours.

01:44SPEAKERHave I told this story before on the podcast?

01:47SPEAKER- I think so, yes.

01:48SPEAKER- Yeah, like, like I sent Chet an email at like 10 o'clock,

01:51SPEAKERtwo days before the Vive came out and was like,

01:53SPEAKER"Hey, I think we're going to make it.

01:55SPEAKERI think we're going to be ready."

01:55SPEAKERAnd he's like, "But we'll probably be next week's releases."

01:58SPEAKERHe's like, "No, just put it in, we'll get you through."

02:00SPEAKER- Whatever.

02:03SPEAKER- The, like working in those backends

02:05SPEAKERis initially really, really cool.

02:08SPEAKERAnd then it becomes really clear that like,

02:10SPEAKERlike every CMS ever is broken in really, like every,

02:14SPEAKERlike we had a really lovely CMS at Whiskey.

02:17SPEAKER- Yes.

02:18SPEAKER- The stuff we used to build for Tested and Giant Bomb

02:19SPEAKERand the sites there was really good.

02:21SPEAKERStill broken in really fundamental ways a lot of the time.

02:24SPEAKER- Sure.

02:27SPEAKERIf you're telling me that Steam is kind of

02:29SPEAKERan anything goes platform on the backend though,

02:32SPEAKERI would have no trouble believing that.

02:35SPEAKER- It's more, it's more that like,

02:37SPEAKERthey very clearly started with one thing

02:40SPEAKERand then just keep layering more things on top of it.

02:43SPEAKER- Yeah.

02:44SPEAKER- So like, you know, some of the stuff that you see,

02:48SPEAKERlike, I don't know, it's, I'm trying to think about

02:52SPEAKERwhat I can talk about without getting in trouble.

02:53SPEAKERIt's just real weird.

02:55SPEAKERAnd you have to kind of, you have to kind of like,

02:58SPEAKERlike one person on the team is our,

03:00SPEAKERis our person who's really understands

03:01SPEAKERhow the Xbox stuff works.

03:02SPEAKEROne person understands how the EDS stuff works

03:05SPEAKERand one person understands how the Steam stuff works.

03:07SPEAKERYou have to kind of be able to put your mindset of,

03:10SPEAKERhere's the weird design language of

03:13SPEAKERwhatever platform you happen to be working on.

03:16SPEAKERAnd then, then, then like you build up

03:18SPEAKERalmost tribal knowledge of how that works.

03:21SPEAKERBut it's still really freaking cool to get in there

03:23SPEAKERand be like, okay, well, I'm going to push this buildup

03:25SPEAKERand hit the button and then it's going to go out

03:27SPEAKERto everybody who has the code on their Xbox

03:28SPEAKERor on their Steam, Steam PC or whatever.

03:31SPEAKERSo.

03:32SPEAKER- Yeah. There's something, something about a console game

03:34SPEAKERthat still feels like there's this intangible quality.

03:37SPEAKERI'm having a hard time putting my finger on like,

03:38SPEAKERit's just, it's official in a way that like.

03:42SPEAKER- Yeah.

03:42SPEAKER- Maybe it's, maybe it's literally as simple as

03:44SPEAKERon a PC you can dig into the install files

03:46SPEAKERand like look at an executable, you know?

03:47SPEAKERAnd it's just like, oh, this is like,

03:49SPEAKERthis is just a machine, just like anything else.

03:51SPEAKERThis works.

03:52SPEAKER- Yeah, like.

03:53SPEAKER- By, by like, you know, it's got parts that,

03:55SPEAKERthat interlock and they all interoperate together.

03:57SPEAKERBut like a console game still has like a little air

04:01SPEAKERof magic to it for me.

04:03SPEAKERDoes that make sense?

04:04SPEAKER- Well, for me, 'cause I think I'm the only person

04:06SPEAKERon the team probably that hasn't actually shipped

04:08SPEAKERa game before.

04:10SPEAKERAnd for me, it's part of it is like,

04:13SPEAKERhey, like 10 year old me used to get cartridges

04:17SPEAKERat Hills and plug them into a Nintendo entertainment system.

04:21SPEAKERAnd as far as I was concerned, those cartridges were made

04:24SPEAKERwith like unicorn magic and PC dust imported from Japan.

04:28SPEAKERRight?

04:28SPEAKERLike I never thought I would be able to like,

04:31SPEAKERlike create the, you know, the software equivalent

04:34SPEAKERof one of those cartridges 40 years in the future.

04:37SPEAKERAnd, and it's really cool.

04:39SPEAKERIt's a good feeling.

04:40SPEAKER- Well, congratulations.

04:41SPEAKERWhen can we expect the Nintendo entertainment system

04:43SPEAKERversion of the Anacrus?

04:45SPEAKER- We're launching on Steam, the Epic game store,

04:48SPEAKERthe Microsoft store, Xbox series S series X and Xbox one.

04:52SPEAKERWe haven't had a bunch of streamers playing all week

04:54SPEAKERjust for the record.

04:55SPEAKERSo if people want to check out the game

04:56SPEAKERand see what it looks like in a non controlled context

04:59SPEAKERwithout developers telling you how to play the game

05:01SPEAKERand all that, like the fire escape,

05:03SPEAKERour friends at fire escape played, Jeff Grubb played,

05:08SPEAKERthere's streams up all over the place.

05:09SPEAKERWe post them on the Anacrusis Twitter site, Twitter page.

05:12SPEAKERAnd you can, let's see, you can wishlist the game on Steam

05:16SPEAKERfor a few more days.

05:17SPEAKERIf you go to j.mp/theanacrusis, A-N-A-C-R-U-S-I-S.

05:22SPEAKERI feel like, I feel like I'm a guest

05:23SPEAKERon somebody else's show now though.

05:24SPEAKERCause I just did all of the,

05:26SPEAKERall of like the Anacrusis PR spiel in one,

05:29SPEAKERin one like four minutes burst there.

05:32SPEAKER- Consider that video game promoted.

05:34SPEAKER(upbeat music)

05:39SPEAKER(upbeat music continues)

06:02SPEAKER- Welcome to Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod.

06:04SPEAKERI'm Will.

06:05SPEAKER- I'm Brad. Hello.

06:06SPEAKER- Hello, Brad. How are you doing?

06:06SPEAKER- Hi.

06:07SPEAKER- I'm doing well. How are you?

06:09SPEAKER- I am, I, you know.

06:11SPEAKER- Getting by.

06:13SPEAKER- No, I'm really good.

06:14SPEAKERLike it's been really like the thing that I've done this week

06:17SPEAKERis stayed up too late watching people play the game,

06:20SPEAKERwhich is like a good, cause they're having,

06:21SPEAKERcause I'm enjoying watching people play this thing

06:25SPEAKERthat we've worked on for a long time.

06:26SPEAKERSo it's like, if I'm tired, it's because of that.

06:29SPEAKERThe pre-launch stuff has been all consuming

06:32SPEAKERduring the workday though.

06:32SPEAKERSo do you ever, do you ever step back

06:34SPEAKERand think how much your life has changed

06:36SPEAKERbecause in early January you're exhausted

06:39SPEAKERtrying to ship video game

06:40SPEAKERand not because you were in Las Vegas?

06:42SPEAKER- I mean, I, I'm, I'll say that like those early tested days

06:46SPEAKERlike 2011, 2012, when we went to Vegas for CES

06:49SPEAKERand drove the van out there and did the whole thing,

06:52SPEAKERlike it was, I mean, I know you, you, you,

06:55SPEAKERyou know this feeling too from doing E3 and stuff like that,

06:57SPEAKERbut like you almost get high on the,

07:00SPEAKERthe excitement of like working really closely with people

07:04SPEAKERfor like 20 hours a day and just busting ass all the time

07:09SPEAKERto do as much as you can in the shortest period of time.

07:12SPEAKERAnd like, I love, I love that, like that chaos

07:15SPEAKERand the chaos of launching the game, very similar.

07:17SPEAKER- Okay. - Yeah.

07:19SPEAKER- I mean, not everyone listening will have shared

07:21SPEAKERthis feeling, but I know exactly what you were talking about

07:23SPEAKERbecause there's definitely at E3,

07:25SPEAKERthere was a feeling of being in the trenches with people.

07:27SPEAKERThere was like an esprit decor, let's say.

07:31SPEAKERIt's like, it's, in the trenches is kind of the right vibe.

07:35SPEAKERI mean, without having to murder other people, I guess.

07:37SPEAKERBut, but like, there's like a, okay, I have,

07:40SPEAKERhere's my list of things to do today.

07:42SPEAKERIt is 70 items long, right?

07:45SPEAKERAnd, and you just, you just sit down

07:47SPEAKERand you have to block and tackle it.

07:48SPEAKERAnd you do, like, if you do it while you're eating a sandwich

07:51SPEAKERfrom the, from the bad, the bad kosher deli

07:55SPEAKERin the back of what, the South hall at E3 and Vegas

07:58SPEAKERor on the West hall at E3, like that's,

08:01SPEAKERthat's when you get it done.

08:02SPEAKERAnd, and then at the end of the night,

08:04SPEAKERyou go back to your hotel room and you spend four hours

08:06SPEAKERuntil 3 a.m. transcribing a Carmack interview

08:08SPEAKERor something, right? - Yep, that's right.

08:09SPEAKERThat's E3, ham duet in one hand, laptop in the other.

08:12SPEAKER- Oh, you were ham duet, I always got the corned beef.

08:14SPEAKER'Cause I, I just couldn't, I honestly,

08:17SPEAKERI feel like once they put the food trucks out

08:19SPEAKERon the concourse between the two halls outside,

08:21SPEAKERit messed up the entire food situation

08:23SPEAKERbecause like having good food there.

08:26SPEAKER- Yeah. - Yeah, it's not right.

08:27SPEAKERThat always felt extremely wrong.

08:29SPEAKERIt's like, shouldn't you people

08:30SPEAKERjust be at the galaxy court?

08:32SPEAKER- Yeah, just eat something.

08:33SPEAKER- Getting, getting the awful cold pizza.

08:35SPEAKER- Oh, French, yeah, cold French fries.

08:37SPEAKER- Yeah.

08:38SPEAKER- Like I, that honestly, that's the only place,

08:40SPEAKERtrade shows are one of the only places that I would go

08:42SPEAKERand like, I'd be tired and I'd be like,

08:44SPEAKERI'm just going to get a bucket of Mountain Dew

08:48SPEAKERand just. - And dump your head in it.

08:50SPEAKER- So jacked up on sugar right now

08:51SPEAKERthat I can't feel my legs for a little while.

08:53SPEAKERBut yeah, I love that chaos.

08:55SPEAKERI don't miss going to CS

08:56SPEAKER'cause CS has sucked for a really long time.

08:58SPEAKER- Well, it seems like, well,

08:59SPEAKERI guess let me just say real fast,

09:00SPEAKERhey, I guess we're here to talk about CS, but also.

09:03SPEAKER- Wow, this is awkward.

09:04SPEAKER- I think a lot of people feel that way

09:06SPEAKERbecause nobody went.

09:07SPEAKER- I mean, look, there are good reasons

09:09SPEAKERto not go to CS this year.

09:11SPEAKER- Oh, for sure, yeah, I'm not, I'm not blaming anybody,

09:13SPEAKERbut the number you sent me the story

09:15SPEAKERright before we started this and dang, 70% attendance down.

09:20SPEAKER- Yeah, so.

09:21SPEAKER- And I think that's from last year, right?

09:22SPEAKERThat's from last year's already kind of deflated numbers.

09:25SPEAKER- I didn't think they did it last year.

09:28SPEAKEROr maybe they just did it virtual.

09:29SPEAKERI can't remember.

09:30SPEAKER- Oh no, you're right, you're right.

09:30SPEAKERThey did not, I'm sorry, that was 2020.

09:31SPEAKER- That's 2020, yeah.

09:32SPEAKERLike the normal number for CS is in the heady good days,

09:36SPEAKERthey would say it was at least 250,000 people.

09:39SPEAKER- Okay, interesting.

09:40SPEAKERSo I think I want to say the 2020 number was 170.

09:43SPEAKERSo maybe it's kind of been on the wane already.

09:45SPEAKER- Look, so the problem with CS is that

09:49SPEAKERover the last 15, 20 years,

09:52SPEAKERthe center of the technology world has gone

09:54SPEAKERfrom like computer manufacturers and like Taiwanese OEMs

09:59SPEAKERand factories in China and companies like Nvidia and AMD

10:03SPEAKERand Intel and the like to Apple and Google and Amazon.

10:09SPEAKERAnd none of those companies show it.

10:11SPEAKERLike even, I don't think Intel even,

10:13SPEAKERIntel still shows, Microsoft doesn't show a CS anymore.

10:16SPEAKERSo like it used to be the CS was where you went to learn

10:22SPEAKERabout what was going to happen in the computer industry

10:23SPEAKERand the phone industry and all these places.

10:25SPEAKERBut the phone industry doesn't really participate

10:27SPEAKERaside from the accessories and the Bluetooth headsets

10:29SPEAKERand all that nonsense.

10:30SPEAKERAnd the other tech people kind of, some of them show up,

10:35SPEAKERbut once you get big enough

10:36SPEAKERthat you have an audience already, you stop coming to CES.

10:39SPEAKERSo it's like the also runs and the accessories

10:41SPEAKERand then like weird computer cases and motherboards

10:44SPEAKERand like good, interesting stuff,

10:47SPEAKERbut not stuff that 250,000 buyers and press

10:50SPEAKERneed to show up for.

10:51SPEAKER- All of this sounds extremely familiar

10:53SPEAKERin the video game industry.

10:54SPEAKER- It's a very similar situation.

10:56SPEAKER'Cause it's very analogous to like Nintendo realizing

10:59SPEAKERthat they didn't have to do shit anymore

11:00SPEAKERand they can just do Nintendo directs

11:02SPEAKERand control the message and control the timing and yeah.

11:05SPEAKER- And save a boatload of money.

11:07SPEAKER- Yeah, exactly.

11:09SPEAKER- So yeah, like, I mean, at the same time,

11:11SPEAKERwe're like, here we are, these two concurrent stories,

11:14SPEAKERCES attendance way down, which again, COVID obviously,

11:17SPEAKERplaying a huge role there.

11:18SPEAKERAnd the news came down that E3 will not even be attempting

11:21SPEAKERan in-person event.

11:23SPEAKER- Yeah, the CES thing, I definitely watch people

11:27SPEAKERthat I know from that world deciding

11:29SPEAKERover the course of December that they were gonna cancel.

11:31SPEAKERAnd then like a bunch of big companies pulled out

11:34SPEAKERor maybe they didn't pull out,

11:35SPEAKERbut they reduced their presence

11:36SPEAKERand went virtual and stuff like that there.

11:39SPEAKERLike there's big empty booths there

11:40SPEAKERwhere people had bought space

11:42SPEAKERand then just decided not to use it because of Omicron.

11:44SPEAKER- Yeah.

11:45SPEAKER- But E3, like E3 is really, it's a weird,

11:50SPEAKERlike not just has E3 changed,

11:53SPEAKERbut like the importance of the Keeley show,

11:56SPEAKERlike the Keeley show was a really big deal.

11:57SPEAKERI don't know if people appreciate like,

12:00SPEAKERlike the Keeley show absorbed a lot of the air

12:02SPEAKERfrom what were formerly the Microsoft and,

12:04SPEAKERI mean, from the Microsoft and Sony

12:06SPEAKERand all the press conferences

12:07SPEAKERwhere the exclusives were aired,

12:09SPEAKERbecause everybody seemed like they showed

12:11SPEAKERtheir exclusives there last year.

12:12SPEAKERAnd then the platform holders

12:15SPEAKERgot the kind of second run stuff.

12:17SPEAKER- Pretty much, yeah.

12:17SPEAKERI mean, but even with the Keeley stuff,

12:19SPEAKEReven the summer game fest,

12:20SPEAKERit was not all concentrated into one week.

12:22SPEAKERIt was still kind of diffused throughout the summer.

12:24SPEAKER- That's true.

12:25SPEAKER- Last year.

12:26SPEAKER- So there was the one big stream

12:27SPEAKERand then there was the rest of it kind of doled out

12:29SPEAKERover a long period of time.

12:30SPEAKER- Yeah, kind of culminating with Gamescom.

12:32SPEAKERSo like all this kind of invites the question for me,

12:36SPEAKERlike trade shows were kind of declining in relevance

12:38SPEAKEReven before COVID,

12:39SPEAKERlike is there a rebound for trade shows after COVID is over?

12:43SPEAKERI mean, assuming there is such a thing as after COVID.

12:46SPEAKER- I don't know about trade shows.

12:47SPEAKERI miss going to cons personally.

12:50SPEAKERI miss going to PAX and playing board games with people

12:53SPEAKERand going into like the old console area

12:56SPEAKERand checking out a Dreamcast

12:57SPEAKERand playing Power Force or Power Forge, Power Force.

13:02SPEAKER- Power Stone?

13:03SPEAKER- Power Stone.

13:04SPEAKERYeah, until 3 a.m. and stuff like that.

13:08SPEAKER- Well, yeah, cons are going nowhere.

13:10SPEAKERThat's obviously, there will be a demand for those

13:13SPEAKERin perpetuity, but the business focused trade events

13:16SPEAKERlike an E3 and a CES, like is it, is there points?

13:21SPEAKER- I mean, my guess is that the stuff that's like GDC

13:24SPEAKERthat's in dice that are more about networking

13:26SPEAKERand education probably remain,

13:29SPEAKERbut I think the stuff that's like,

13:30SPEAKERhey, let's get some articles in newspapers

13:32SPEAKERlike E3 and CES probably has problems.

13:35SPEAKER- Yeah, like E3 is done as far as I'm concerned.

13:37SPEAKERI don't think there's any way that's coming back,

13:38SPEAKERbut like CES always seemed like an even bigger institute.

13:41SPEAKER- Really, you think it's not coming back after?

13:42SPEAKER- No, I don't think so.

13:42SPEAKER- Wow.

13:43SPEAKER- I think this was it.

13:46SPEAKER- So the life cycle of E3 is those that they moved

13:47SPEAKERto Santa Monica now for a little while as a conference pupa.

13:52SPEAKER- Yes.

13:53SPEAKER- And then they emerge like a beautiful butterfly

13:54SPEAKERfive years after that.

13:55SPEAKER- Yes, they will have their cleansing year on the boardwalk.

13:58SPEAKER- Two, two cleansing years.

14:00SPEAKER- Was it?

14:00SPEAKER- Yeah.

14:01SPEAKER- Were there two Santa Monica years?

14:02SPEAKER- Two Santa Monica years.

14:03SPEAKER- Gosh, that's hard for me to remember.

14:05SPEAKER- It was, they were bad.

14:06SPEAKERI mean, like in one hand it was kind of awesome

14:08SPEAKER'cause like everything was really small

14:09SPEAKERand it was easy to see everything, but on the other hand,

14:12SPEAKERlike walking from one end of the Santa Monica

14:15SPEAKERstrip to the other end because there were no cabs

14:18SPEAKERwas challenging.

14:20SPEAKER- Yes, indeed.

14:21SPEAKER- Well, yeah.

14:23SPEAKER- We did call like kind of the news we could find

14:25SPEAKERfrom CES here.

14:26SPEAKER- Yeah, like there was still like, so the thing about CES,

14:29SPEAKERlike when Norm and I would go and tested,

14:31SPEAKERwe still found 40 things that were worth making a video for.

14:34SPEAKER- Sure.

14:35SPEAKER- Right, like there's still, it's an enormous convention

14:38SPEAKERthat fills one, two, three, four, five

14:41SPEAKERor six conference halls, plus every hotel suite in town.

14:45SPEAKERAnd like the ratio of good stuff to crap is really bad.

14:51SPEAKERBut at that scale, there's still a hundred things

14:54SPEAKERthat are kind of cool for every,

14:56SPEAKERthere's one thing that's cool for every hundred,

14:59SPEAKERthis spoon will tell you that you're eating too fast,

15:01SPEAKERnonsense product.

15:03SPEAKER- I do not eat a spoon telling me.

15:05SPEAKER- Yeah, dude, I know that I eat too fast.

15:06SPEAKERI am like there.

15:08SPEAKER- I don't want to hear it.

15:09SPEAKER- Yeah, like, yeah, I don't need judgy electronics

15:13SPEAKERtelling me how to live my life, dammit.

15:15SPEAKERSo what did we find?

15:16SPEAKERWe got some cool stuff.

15:17SPEAKERWe have some cool stuff to talk about, I think.

15:19SPEAKER- I can't believe I'm saying this,

15:20SPEAKERbut the first thing I saw this week that leapt out at me

15:22SPEAKERwas a Steam VR headset.

15:24SPEAKER- Brad loves VR, noted, we got it.

15:26SPEAKER- I have nothing against VR, it just doesn't feel like much

15:28SPEAKERhas been happening in that space for a while, but.

15:31SPEAKER- I mean, the mobile stuff is what's been.

15:33SPEAKER- Well, yeah, sure.

15:34SPEAKER- Yeah, the Quest 2 and those equivalent kind of headsets.

15:39SPEAKERI don't have the numbers in front of me,

15:40SPEAKERbut I feel like I saw some Quest 2 sales figures

15:42SPEAKERor at least implications about Quest 2 sales figures

15:46SPEAKERthat were very positive.

15:47SPEAKER- I mean, I guess that's great for meta,

15:50SPEAKERthe people who make the Oculus Quest.

15:53SPEAKER- Yeah, anyway, Panasonic, I found this on CNET.

15:57SPEAKERPanasonic revealed a fully, like a full spec Steam VR headset

16:01SPEAKERthat like sort of looks like Dr. Octopus goggles.

16:04SPEAKERLike they are goggles shapes, not headset shaped.

16:07SPEAKER- There's some straight up Neal Stephenson nonsense.

16:09SPEAKER- Yes.

16:10SPEAKER- Like, it looks like they cup around your eye socket, right?

16:14SPEAKER- Yeah.

16:16SPEAKER- I'm intrigued, I would say.

16:18SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, like they're not exactly glasses,

16:21SPEAKERbut they're sort of getting into that territory.

16:25SPEAKERThey've got earpieces and eyepieces,

16:27SPEAKERnot a gigantic helmet type thing.

16:29SPEAKER- Yeah, it doesn't look like swim goggles.

16:31SPEAKERIt doesn't look like a snorkeling mask.

16:33SPEAKER- Right.

16:35SPEAKER- Like, go ahead.

16:37SPEAKER- They've done this thing before where they show headsets.

16:41SPEAKERLike they showed a flip up headset years ago.

16:43SPEAKERMaybe that might not have been Panasonic actually,

16:45SPEAKERbut they showed glasses that looked like this last year,

16:48SPEAKERI believe, that were mobile based ones

16:50SPEAKERthat I don't think ever shipped.

16:52SPEAKERSo maybe these will actually ship.

16:54SPEAKER- It says these will be out in the spring, I believe.

16:57SPEAKER- Yes, I know.

16:58SPEAKERThey always say they'll be out in the spring, Brad.

17:00SPEAKER- Oh wait, they have a price.

17:01SPEAKERDoes that increase your confidence?

17:02SPEAKER- Okay, that helps a little bit.

17:03SPEAKERWhat's the price?

17:04SPEAKER- $900.

17:05SPEAKER- Woo!

17:08SPEAKER- Oh, actually the CNET story says exactly.

17:10SPEAKERPanasonic demonstrated an earlier version

17:12SPEAKERof this headset two years ago at CES,

17:13SPEAKERbut this version is actually being released this spring

17:16SPEAKERfor around $900.

17:19SPEAKERIt does hook up to a PC.

17:20SPEAKERLike it does require the full shebang.

17:24SPEAKER- It's equivalent to the Vive or the Index

17:26SPEAKERor one of the other Steam VR headsets.

17:28SPEAKER- Like the reason this is notable for me is that like,

17:30SPEAKERI mean, you tell me,

17:31SPEAKERbut getting in and out of VR is just kind of a hassle.

17:35SPEAKERAnd also the sensory deprivation kind of isolation aspect

17:40SPEAKERis tough when you're trying to deal with like

17:42SPEAKERthe real world around you at home.

17:44SPEAKERSuch as children or-

17:45SPEAKER- I mean, that's a benefit, not a-

17:47SPEAKER- This depends on your lifestyle and perspective.

17:49SPEAKERBut like, I mean, the reason really that this,

17:52SPEAKERthis seems notable to me is like,

17:54SPEAKERlook, I don't buy into the metaverse stuff

17:56SPEAKERany more than anybody should.

17:58SPEAKERBut like part of the barrier to like wanting to be in VR

18:02SPEAKERfor a meeting or to go grocery shopping

18:05SPEAKERor whatever the hell they're trying to position it as

18:08SPEAKERis like, it needs to be very low effort

18:10SPEAKERto just throw these things on

18:11SPEAKERand then take them off again, right?

18:13SPEAKER- I mean, that definitely helps.

18:15SPEAKERLike the headsets with the fix, with the hard straps,

18:18SPEAKERlike the Index and the Oculus and all that stuff

18:21SPEAKERthat you just leave the strap adjusted to fit your head

18:23SPEAKERand you can slide it on and off are way easier to work with

18:25SPEAKERthan the ones that launched originally

18:27SPEAKERwith like the soft floppy elastic straps.

18:30SPEAKER- That's fair.

18:31SPEAKER- The things, there are a couple of things about this.

18:33SPEAKEROne is that I don't think you can wear glasses under it.

18:36SPEAKER- Oh, sure.

18:37SPEAKER- Which affects like 80% of the population or something.

18:40SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't like that your pieces look like

18:41SPEAKERthey would actually conflict with glasses.

18:43SPEAKER- Well, and the cups would,

18:44SPEAKERlike the cups would fit around your frames.

18:46SPEAKER- Yes, absolutely.

18:48SPEAKER- Now, that's not as much of a problem

18:49SPEAKER'cause you can get VR lens inserts snap in

18:52SPEAKERin front of your thing.

18:53SPEAKERAnd I assume that they would have worked through that.

18:54SPEAKERI don't know for sure.

18:57SPEAKERThat's the big one.

18:57SPEAKERBut like having something smaller and lighter,

19:00SPEAKERas somebody who in the early days of food

19:02SPEAKERwas wearing a headset for three or four hours a day,

19:04SPEAKERmost days, it's really nice to not have to,

19:10SPEAKERlike not have a crick in your neck

19:12SPEAKERif the headset weighs less.

19:14SPEAKERThe weight on this was good.

19:15SPEAKERIt looks small.

19:17SPEAKERI mean, it doesn't have a back weight to balance out,

19:20SPEAKERwhich is the thing that the index did that helped a ton.

19:23SPEAKERSo I don't know.

19:24SPEAKERI mean, it's interesting.

19:25SPEAKERAm I gonna spend $1,000 on a VR headset at this point?

19:28SPEAKERProbably not.

19:28SPEAKER- No, definitely not.

19:29SPEAKERIt's more just seems like a milestone

19:31SPEAKERin the kind of necessary VR shrinkage

19:34SPEAKERthat needs to take place

19:35SPEAKERbefore it becomes truly ubiquitous.

19:37SPEAKERLike they just need to be less bulky and easier to put on.

19:40SPEAKER- I think, I mean, I think that's part of it, yeah.

19:43SPEAKERDoes it use the Steam VR tracking

19:45SPEAKERor is it a different kind of tracking?

19:46SPEAKERDid they say?

19:47SPEAKER- I'm not sure about that.

19:50SPEAKER- I didn't see anything in the,

19:51SPEAKERI looked at two stories and nobody said.

19:53SPEAKERI think the previous edition was using a Qualcomm chip

19:57SPEAKERthat did slam the, you know, the thing with the cameras.

20:02SPEAKER- Oh, actually, yes, you're right here.

20:03SPEAKERThe headset has its own Qualcomm Snapdragon XR1

20:06SPEAKERto enable tracking.

20:07SPEAKER- Okay, so then, yeah,

20:08SPEAKERthey're not using the Lighthouse stuff.

20:09SPEAKERSo that begs the question,

20:11SPEAKERhow the hands are gonna be tracked with this

20:13SPEAKERand that I have questions about too, but we'll see.

20:16SPEAKER- Yes.

20:18SPEAKER- Interesting, I would call that one.

20:20SPEAKER- Yes.

20:23SPEAKER- Can we talk about the TV stuff?

20:24SPEAKER- Sure.

20:25SPEAKER- Do you wanna talk about HDMI, talk about standards?

20:28SPEAKER- I wanna talk about Samsung finally getting,

20:30SPEAKERlike Samsung has spent the last like eight years,

20:33SPEAKERmaybe not that long, maybe five years,

20:34SPEAKERtalking a serious amount of smack about OLED technology.

20:37SPEAKER- Yes, which was like very clearly

20:39SPEAKERjust because they were not in a position

20:41SPEAKERto be profiting from it themselves.

20:43SPEAKER- Guess what, Brad?

20:44SPEAKER- Hey, seems like they've changed their tune

20:46SPEAKERpretty dramatically.

20:47SPEAKER- Well, I mean, they're rolling out Quantum.OLEDs.

20:50SPEAKER- Yeah.

20:52SPEAKER- I'm interested to see these in person.

20:55SPEAKERThe kind of TLDR is that where the existing OLEDs use yellow

20:58SPEAKERand I think white lights to,

21:00SPEAKERand then some filters to do the OLED, to do the OLEDing.

21:05SPEAKERThis uses blue, which is more energetic

21:08SPEAKERand can be filtered down in more interesting ways.

21:11SPEAKERThe upshot is the thing that they're claiming, I guess,

21:14SPEAKERis that the highlights will not be as blown out

21:18SPEAKERas they are in traditional OLEDs,

21:19SPEAKERbut you'll still have the same nice deep, deep, rich blacks.

21:22SPEAKERSo your HDR images will look really nice.

21:24SPEAKER- Okay, the thing I tried to find,

21:26SPEAKERwhich I didn't see anything about is the patent situation.

21:30SPEAKERLike my understanding was always that LG had patents

21:32SPEAKERthat was kind of preventing other,

21:34SPEAKER'cause that's why you hear like Sony's using LG panels,

21:37SPEAKERLG obviously is using their own,

21:38SPEAKERlike everybody's using LG panels, right?

21:40SPEAKERLike that was all there was for manufacturers.

21:42SPEAKER- Yeah.

21:43SPEAKER- And I don't know what has gotten Samsung around that

21:45SPEAKERto the extent that they can make their own now.

21:47SPEAKER- My guess is it's a cross licensing agreement.

21:51SPEAKER- It's kind of, you scratch my patent, I'll scratch yours.

21:54SPEAKER- Probably.

21:55SPEAKER- Kind of situation.

21:56SPEAKER- Or, I mean, it could also be that the quantum dot stuff

21:58SPEAKERis different enough that they're able to bypass

21:59SPEAKERwhatever patents LG had.

22:01SPEAKER- Sure.

22:02SPEAKER- Then the third one is that it could be manufacturing

22:04SPEAKERpatents owned by somebody else,

22:05SPEAKER'cause sometimes the patents,

22:07SPEAKERsometimes the important patents

22:08SPEAKERaren't for the technology itself,

22:09SPEAKERit's for how you make the technology at scale.

22:11SPEAKERSo I don't know, that's the kind of thing

22:13SPEAKERthey're never probably gonna talk about

22:14SPEAKERrealistically, unfortunately.

22:16SPEAKER- Do you think, are we going to move into a kind of a

22:20SPEAKERpost LCD world eventually for this stuff?

22:23SPEAKER- God, I hope so.

22:25SPEAKER- What do you have against LCD?

22:26SPEAKER- I mean, they're fine,

22:27SPEAKERbut we've been using LCDs for 20 years now.

22:29SPEAKERAnd I'm like, I think emissive stuff

22:33SPEAKERis way more interesting.

22:35SPEAKERI mean, that's what my OLEDs are neat.

22:37SPEAKERI think the micro and nano LEDs that like,

22:40SPEAKERI think the next phase is instead of using LED backlights

22:44SPEAKERwith filters that change colors in front of them

22:46SPEAKERin a screen door kind of grid

22:48SPEAKERis actually generating pixel colors with pixels

22:51SPEAKERthat are just very, very small,

22:54SPEAKERlike with the micro led and the nano led.

22:57SPEAKERBut I was kind of surprised that I didn't see that there,

23:01SPEAKERI mean, they're the same, it seems like the usual,

23:03SPEAKERhey, here's some really expensive options in this space

23:06SPEAKERfor extremely wealthy people/tech demos,

23:10SPEAKERnot any real products in the micro led space yet,

23:12SPEAKERwhich is about--

23:13SPEAKER- I didn't realize that Samsung actually was selling

23:15SPEAKERa model of micro led TV last year for--

23:18SPEAKER- 75 grand or something, right?

23:20SPEAKER- 150, $150,000 for a 110 inch model.

23:24SPEAKER- But it was like 300 inches or something, 110 inches,

23:27SPEAKERyeah, it was big.

23:28SPEAKER- So they announced an 89 inch micro led at this CES.

23:34SPEAKERI don't see a price on that one.

23:37SPEAKERTotally affordable, I'm sure.

23:38SPEAKER- Well, I mean, look, it only has to half three more times

23:41SPEAKERand then it would be almost affordable.

23:44SPEAKER- Do you know why do these extremely bleeding edge

23:46SPEAKERdisplay techs start with such big screens?

23:48SPEAKERIs it just like, hey, anybody who has the money

23:51SPEAKERto buy one of these things anyway

23:53SPEAKERjust wants something incredibly flashy

23:55SPEAKERfor their gigantic home?

23:56SPEAKER- It's because a lot of the cost on this stuff

23:59SPEAKERis because the cost of manufacturing it,

24:01SPEAKERlike you have to build a new factory to manufacture, right?

24:05SPEAKERAnd you probably have to develop new processes

24:07SPEAKERto the manufacturing.

24:08SPEAKERSo that means you have to build the machines

24:10SPEAKERthat go into the factory aren't just the same machines

24:12SPEAKERyou use for everything else.

24:13SPEAKERSo you start out by buying really,

24:16SPEAKERit's the same reason Tesla launched with the Roadster

24:19SPEAKERand the Model S, right?

24:20SPEAKERThey started out with the expensive high-end one

24:22SPEAKERwith a really good margin so that they would lose less money

24:26SPEAKERon the amortization of the startup costs

24:29SPEAKERcompared to like a $25,000 car or whatever.

24:33SPEAKER- Also, I assume in some of these cases,

24:35SPEAKERlike manufacturing has to mature for the density,

24:38SPEAKERthe display density to get small enough.

24:41SPEAKER- I would think so.

24:42SPEAKERI thought that the micro led people were like,

24:44SPEAKERwe can do this right now.

24:45SPEAKERIt's just, we have to build the infrastructure,

24:47SPEAKERblah, blah, blah.

24:48SPEAKERI don't know.

24:49SPEAKERI'm like, I'm not waiting on anything at this point

24:52SPEAKERto buy a TV.

24:53SPEAKERI'm just like, our TV is good enough

24:54SPEAKERand I don't really feel the need to get a new one.

24:56SPEAKER- I feel so A, we both have plasmas.

25:00SPEAKER- Yeah.

25:01SPEAKER- And B, I feel the same way as you.

25:04SPEAKERAnd I feel so weird about saying that to people

25:05SPEAKERbecause people think of plasma as such an archaic technology,

25:09SPEAKERbut like it does still look pretty good.

25:11SPEAKER- Well, the only real thing that's pushing me

25:14SPEAKERto consider upgrading the plasma is that it gets,

25:17SPEAKERit makes the room so hot in the summertime

25:19SPEAKERwhen we turn it on.

25:21SPEAKER- It's not great in that respect.

25:23SPEAKER- Which means also it's using a shitload of electricity.

25:25SPEAKERSo.

25:26SPEAKER- Yeah.

25:27SPEAKERI mean, the other thing, the thing that's creeping up for me

25:29SPEAKERis that so much content is moving toward 4K

25:31SPEAKERand especially HDR.

25:32SPEAKER- Yeah.

25:33SPEAKER- And you know, I feel like we're going to be,

25:37SPEAKERend up being shut out of stuff eventually

25:38SPEAKERbecause like you can obviously display HDR stuff

25:40SPEAKERon an SDR TV, but it's not always very good.

25:44SPEAKER- I think the HDR thing is the FOMO I have on the TV.

25:47SPEAKERLike I care way less about the 4K than I care about the HDR.

25:51SPEAKER- I mean, I miss HDR, it's great.

25:53SPEAKERBut also like, you know, I've been messing around

25:55SPEAKERwith the auto tone mapping and Plex a little bit,

25:58SPEAKERlike feeding some HDR stuff in there

25:59SPEAKERto see how it comes out and it's.

26:01SPEAKER- It's bad.

26:02SPEAKER- Some parts are okay, but like it's incredibly washed out.

26:05SPEAKERLike it just is not, like, I don't think we're quite

26:09SPEAKERat the point where stuff is going to be shipping HDR

26:10SPEAKERonly just yet.

26:12SPEAKER- I, yeah, no, we're not going to be at that point

26:15SPEAKERfor a long time because there's still,

26:16SPEAKERprobably the market penetration of 4K is still,

26:19SPEAKERof HDR 4K is probably still really low,

26:21SPEAKERespecially given how jacked up the,

26:23SPEAKERlike I guarantee you that there's,

26:26SPEAKERI don't know, I don't want to say, I was going to say 100.

26:28SPEAKERI guarantee you that there's millions of people

26:30SPEAKERthat have HDR TVs, some double digit percentage

26:33SPEAKERof the audience of 4K HDR TV owners

26:35SPEAKERdon't have the right cable and port plugged in

26:38SPEAKERto get HDR to turn on.

26:40SPEAKER- Like that's the classic, your parents got the HD cable box

26:43SPEAKERand then ran a composite out to the TV from it.

26:46SPEAKER- Yeah, like it's, I think it was Gary,

26:49SPEAKERour friend of the pod, Gary Wetta,

26:51SPEAKERwhen he got his HDR TV, he had a cable

26:55SPEAKERthat was run through the wall from like where his,

26:56SPEAKERwhere his consoles and stuff were up to the TV set

26:59SPEAKERand it was like the wrong version of HDMI 2.

27:02SPEAKERSo he had to re-pull the cable.

27:04SPEAKER- Well funny you mentioned HDMI versions.

27:08SPEAKER- Huh, well, I mean, we're good.

27:10SPEAKERWe're done, right?

27:10SPEAKERHDMI 2.1 is locked.

27:12SPEAKERIt's good forever.

27:13SPEAKERYou don't need any more.

27:14SPEAKER- I have bad news for you.

27:16SPEAKER- Oh no.

27:17SPEAKER- Multiple people sent this to us somewhat excitedly.

27:20SPEAKERYou know how we feel about standards around here.

27:22SPEAKER- I love a good standards body.

27:23SPEAKER- Yes, HDMI 2.1 A.

27:26SPEAKER- Oh, that's sure to clear things up.

27:28SPEAKER- Wasn't even enough to do a new point release.

27:31SPEAKER- What are they adding, Brad?

27:33SPEAKER- Seems like source based mapping.

27:36SPEAKER- So instead of, what, okay.

27:39SPEAKERSo are they, does this mean it's aware of what the TV,

27:43SPEAKERwhat TV you have hooked up to

27:45SPEAKERand aware of what the implement,

27:46SPEAKERwhat the intent of the person who did the tone mapping was?

27:50SPEAKERIs that how this is working?

27:51SPEAKER- Sort of, that's what this Verge story makes it sound like.

27:54SPEAKERA new HDR feature that offloads some of the HDR tone mapping

27:57SPEAKERto the content source like your computer or set top box

28:00SPEAKERalongside the tone mapping that your TV or monitor is doing.

28:03SPEAKERSo that's like pretty similar to the stuff

28:05SPEAKERwith Plex I was just talking about.

28:06SPEAKER- Yeah, but probably presumably in hardware

28:09SPEAKERand better.

28:10SPEAKER- For people that don't know HDR content on an SDR TV,

28:13SPEAKERjust like it tends to look very washed out

28:16SPEAKERor overly dark, like in the color space, the brightness,

28:19SPEAKERlike they're just not tuned for the display.

28:21SPEAKERSo it like, algorithmically,

28:23SPEAKERthere are ways you can try to adjust for that,

28:25SPEAKERbut it doesn't, it just comes out looking pretty bad

28:27SPEAKERin most cases.

28:28SPEAKER- It looks like you turned the saturation down

28:30SPEAKERon your monitor way down to like 10%.

28:33SPEAKER- Yes.

28:34SPEAKER- And then also some colors just turned gray.

28:37SPEAKER- Yeah, like some of the brighter colors.

28:40SPEAKER- It's interesting this, I mean, I don't know,

28:44SPEAKERat some point we should do a contest to see

28:46SPEAKERwhich is the jankiest spec at this point.

28:48SPEAKERAnd is it HDMI or is it USB-C/3.1A, whatever.

28:53SPEAKERI don't like--

28:55SPEAKER- We're gonna throw the Dark Horse

28:56SPEAKERcontender display port in there.

28:59SPEAKER- I mean, display port though, there's only one,

29:01SPEAKERwell, there's two, there's a small plug and a big plug,

29:03SPEAKERbut only everybody uses,

29:05SPEAKERat least the physical connector is easy on that one.

29:07SPEAKER- I guess that's fair.

29:10SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't know, this seems fine.

29:12SPEAKERThe weird thing that I learned reading about this though,

29:14SPEAKERI didn't understand that the HDMI consortium's requirement

29:18SPEAKERfor labeling ports is that you always have to put

29:22SPEAKERthe latest version of the port on,

29:23SPEAKEReven if you don't support the features

29:25SPEAKERof that version of the spec.

29:26SPEAKER- That is the actual reason to talk about this story,

29:28SPEAKERlike source space, tone mapping, fine, sure, whatever.

29:31SPEAKER- Yeah, that's great.

29:32SPEAKERBut yeah, this thing about the labeling requirements,

29:35SPEAKERI assume has been the case all along,

29:37SPEAKERbut for whatever reason it really blew up

29:41SPEAKERaround this 2.1A story.

29:43SPEAKEREverybody kind of came to realize how messed up this is.

29:47SPEAKER- Yeah, so the kind of TLDR is if you bought a TV this year

29:50SPEAKERthat has one port that supports the HDMI 2.1 features,

29:54SPEAKERlike the 10-bit color and the Dolby Atmos and all that stuff

29:58SPEAKERand three ports on your TV that do not,

30:01SPEAKERthey're all supports supposed to be labeled HDMI 2.1.

30:05SPEAKERNow, thankfully the manufacturers for the most part

30:07SPEAKERdon't do this 'cause it's stupid.

30:10SPEAKERBut like, it's asinine, why version the specs

30:16SPEAKERif you're going to use the most current number

30:20SPEAKERno matter what, it just doesn't make any sense.

30:22SPEAKER- Essentially all the features that are part of the spec

30:24SPEAKERare basically optional to be included on any given port.

30:27SPEAKERSo it's pretty tough to actually know what your TV can do.

30:30SPEAKER- Well, yeah, I mean, this seems like bad business, Brad.

30:38SPEAKER- Yeah.

30:43SPEAKER- I think we actually need to do an HDMI episode

30:45SPEAKERbecause I don't understand HDMI anymore.

30:50SPEAKERThis is the scary part.

30:52SPEAKER- I have nothing to say to that.

30:54SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, it's true.

30:56SPEAKER- I can't, I was just like frozen in horror

30:58SPEAKERwith the idea of digging into an HDMI episode

31:01SPEAKERand filling out an hour of content about port standards.

31:04SPEAKER- I mean, the one thing I will say about HDMI

31:06SPEAKERis at least they only have, I think three cables

31:08SPEAKER'cause they have the small skinny one, the small wide one

31:11SPEAKERand then the big normal one that everybody's used to.

31:13SPEAKERSo good job on that, I suppose.

31:15SPEAKERI don't, man, I don't know.

31:18SPEAKERI just, I'm afraid part of the reason

31:20SPEAKERI haven't bought a new TV honestly is that I'm afraid

31:23SPEAKERI'll fuck up and buy one that has the wrong kind of ports

31:25SPEAKERand then I'll never be able to get 120 Hertz and HDR

31:28SPEAKERand Dolby audio and all of the stuff that I want out of,

31:32SPEAKERyeah, anyway, I'm just gonna stop watching TV.

31:36SPEAKER- That works, I was gonna say you could also do what I do

31:38SPEAKERand just kick the can down the road forever.

31:40SPEAKERJust keep using the thing.

31:41SPEAKER- Speaking, oh, that's two stories down from now, okay.

31:45SPEAKER- Oh, we could just get into it now.

31:46SPEAKER- Okay, speaking of kicking the can.

31:48SPEAKER- Yes, AMD talked about some CPU stuff.

31:52SPEAKER- That's exciting.

31:53SPEAKER- Yes, well, yes and no.

31:55SPEAKER- Does this mean we have to have Gordon back on again?

31:57SPEAKER'Cause I like seeing Gordon.

31:58SPEAKER- Oh, eventually, let's say maybe later this year

32:01SPEAKERwhen the Zen 4 chips launch.

32:03SPEAKER- Okay.

32:04SPEAKER- The Ryzen 5000 stuff that's out now

32:06SPEAKERis Zen 3 for reference.

32:08SPEAKERZen 4 is their kind of full on next generation architecture,

32:11SPEAKERwhich I think is gonna be labeled Ryzen 7000 retail.

32:15SPEAKERI think 6000 is gonna be the mobile part again.

32:17SPEAKER- Did they talk about like what's changing

32:20SPEAKERat the kind of core level with the Ryzen 4 stuff

32:23SPEAKERversus Ryzen 3?

32:24SPEAKER- I don't think so.

32:26SPEAKER- Okay, this seemed like a pretty soft launch

32:29SPEAKERfrom the NAND tech article I read.

32:32SPEAKER- Yeah, so, well, there's gonna be a new socket.

32:34SPEAKERAM5 is the new socket that will be debuting alongside that

32:38SPEAKERand AM4 lasted for what, five years, I think.

32:41SPEAKER- Really like three, I think AM4 launched with the Ryzens,

32:44SPEAKERthe first Ryzens, right?

32:45SPEAKER- I think that's right, yeah, so.

32:47SPEAKER- Yeah, that's cool.

32:48SPEAKER- Presumably, that's gonna be around for a while,

32:50SPEAKERbut in the shorter term, I was all excited

32:53SPEAKERbecause they have been talking

32:55SPEAKERabout doing a Zen 3 refresh for a while.

32:58SPEAKER- Well, hold on, before the AM5/Zen 4 stuff,

33:03SPEAKERthey did talk about PCIe 5 and DDR5,

33:07SPEAKERbut they didn't talk about like architecture changes

33:09SPEAKERinside the, and they said it was gonna be

33:12SPEAKERon TSMC's five nanometer process, presumably.

33:15SPEAKER- Sorry, I could have mentioned that stuff.

33:16SPEAKERI think the DDR5 and PCIe 5 stuff has been assumed,

33:20SPEAKERif not stated for a while around that platform,

33:22SPEAKER'cause again, it's gonna be around for so long.

33:24SPEAKER- Like, yeah, they've generally been pretty aggressive

33:31SPEAKERon supporting new PCIe standards

33:33SPEAKERbecause of the number of CPUs

33:35SPEAKERthat they can put on their sockets, so.

33:36SPEAKER- I feel like PCIe 4 devices, like SSDs specifically,

33:41SPEAKERhave just barely started to reasonably

33:44SPEAKERbe in the marketplace and affordable.

33:46SPEAKER- I think only the newest Intel machines

33:48SPEAKERcan even support PCIe, like even natively,

33:50SPEAKERlike they just back compat to PCI 3.

33:53SPEAKER- Right, what is the use case for 5?

33:55SPEAKERI mean, obviously this is future-proofing, but.

33:57SPEAKER- Well, so 4 gives you the ability to do stuff

33:59SPEAKERlike the console fast load speeds with SSDs.

34:03SPEAKERI have no idea what, I haven't even looked at 5 yet.

34:06SPEAKER- Hey, do you wanna throw another standard

34:07SPEAKERon the pile to do an episode of that?

34:10SPEAKER- I'm probably good on that one, I think.

34:12SPEAKER- Yeah.

34:13SPEAKER- The other big changes at AM5 is an LGA socket,

34:16SPEAKERlike the Intel one, so the flat bottom of the chip,

34:18SPEAKERand then the thing that you break off and jack up

34:20SPEAKERwill be on the less expensive part, presumably.

34:23SPEAKER- Yes, on the motherboard.

34:24SPEAKER- Which is good.

34:25SPEAKER- Can't wait to catch my T-shirt on those pins

34:27SPEAKERnext time I build a system as well.

34:29SPEAKER- I told you, man, that's why I always

34:30SPEAKERbuild new computers, Nude.

34:32SPEAKERNothing to catch.

34:33SPEAKER- That's what's happening.

34:34SPEAKER- Nothing to catch.

34:35SPEAKER- That's a solid policy.

34:37SPEAKER- So these, the Zenfork chips are going to have

34:40SPEAKERthis 3D cache on them that AMD has developed.

34:44SPEAKER- Okay, what makes it 3D, Brad?

34:46SPEAKER- Just bullets stacked on top of other cache.

34:49SPEAKER- So it's like 2.5D then, really, isn't it?

34:51SPEAKER- Right, it's like you build up and not just out.

34:53SPEAKER- I don't know about that, sounds risky.

34:55SPEAKER- Yes, but, so they've been talking up this 3D cache stuff

34:59SPEAKERthat they developed for a while since late last year,

35:02SPEAKERlike they've got it in some data center parts.

35:04SPEAKERI was all excited because the rumors are, or have been,

35:07SPEAKERthat they were going to refresh their desktop parts with it.

35:09SPEAKER- Yeah, man, it'd be awesome to have

35:10SPEAKERlike a 5900, 5800 with that.

35:12SPEAKER- Yeah, which seems like a great time

35:14SPEAKERfor me to finally buy in, 'cause then I could feel like

35:16SPEAKERI was getting the latest and greatest

35:17SPEAKERin not something that I could have bought a year ago.

35:20SPEAKER- Well. - And waited on.

35:21SPEAKER- Could have bought a year ago with an asterisk, I think.

35:23SPEAKER- Well, yeah, weirdly, CPUs, I feel like,

35:26SPEAKERhave been the least hit of just about any kind of

35:29SPEAKERhigh-end consumer electronic stuff.

35:31SPEAKER- Well, that's 'cause of supply chain and pricing.

35:33SPEAKER- Yeah, it's 'cause you don't use those to mine Ethereum.

35:35SPEAKER- Okay, that's probably part of it.

35:36SPEAKERAlso, they last forever, right?

35:37SPEAKER- Yeah. - There's not a huge demand

35:39SPEAKERon, they're kind of like TVs, right?

35:41SPEAKER- Exactly.

35:42SPEAKER- People won't upgrade to CPUs very often.

35:44SPEAKERI am moving proof.

35:46SPEAKER- Yeah, you're on a 6700K?

35:48SPEAKER- 77. - 7700K.

35:50SPEAKERSo what's the, which chips are getting the 2.5D cache?

35:54SPEAKER- So they announced exactly one SKU

35:58SPEAKERto refresh from the Zen 3 line with this extra cache,

36:01SPEAKERand it is 5,800, which is not bad.

36:03SPEAKERIt's the 8 core. - That's a good,

36:04SPEAKERthat's maybe actually the way you,

36:06SPEAKERwell, I mean, you do video stuff, though.

36:08SPEAKER- Yeah, I do, 8 cores is not, come on.

36:11SPEAKER- I mean, I guess I have 10, I can't remember.

36:14SPEAKERI don't even know how many cores I have anymore, Brad.

36:16SPEAKERThis is how tired I am at the end of this week.

36:19SPEAKER- I'm sorry. - It's okay.

36:20SPEAKER- It's been a week.

36:22SPEAKER12 seems like a good number.

36:24SPEAKER12 has always seemed, 16 may be a bit extravagant.

36:28SPEAKER- I like base two.

36:29SPEAKERI feel like 12 is weird 'cause it's not really base two.

36:31SPEAKER- I mean, yeah, I get it, sure, I get it.

36:33SPEAKER- 16 seems pretty good, though.

36:35SPEAKER- Anyway, I was all excited for the 5900X,

36:37SPEAKERthe 12 core Ryzen 5000 to get this extra cache

36:43SPEAKERso I can finally buy one, but they're not making one.

36:47SPEAKER- So you can get on the AM5 train in 2022?

36:52SPEAKER- I mean, that is this year, technically,

36:53SPEAKERthat will be this year.

36:54SPEAKERIt is, in fact, now 2022.

36:56SPEAKER- It might be time to upgrade the 7700K, dude.

36:59SPEAKER- I think it's past time.

37:00SPEAKER- Yeah, I have a laptop that's faster than that now.

37:05SPEAKERLike a lot faster than that, probably.

37:07SPEAKER- Do you think that this Zen 4 launch

37:09SPEAKERwill actually be a launch in 2022?

37:12SPEAKER- I don't have any idea.

37:13SPEAKER- Do you think it's a paper launch?

37:15SPEAKER- I don't like the term paper launch.

37:17SPEAKER- No, why not?

37:19SPEAKER- Because it implies that there's ill intent

37:21SPEAKERfrom the vendors who are trying to get us

37:24SPEAKERto not spend our money on a competitor's product

37:26SPEAKERin exchange for waiting until the next year

37:29SPEAKERto buy their product.

37:30SPEAKER- Okay, paper launch, obviously,

37:31SPEAKERmaybe it was a little bit too pointed of a term.

37:33SPEAKERI mean, in this case, it's more about supply constraints

37:35SPEAKERand how much they can actually get into the channel, right?

37:38SPEAKER- Yeah, I think that's, my guess is,

37:39SPEAKERI mean, look, new chip, new socket, new memory, PCIe 5,

37:47SPEAKERlike there's a lot of pieces there.

37:49SPEAKERThe memory, like if they have,

37:52SPEAKERif the memory vendors have trouble making the memory,

37:54SPEAKERif the motherboard vendors have trouble with boards,

37:58SPEAKERlike you could have a situation

37:59SPEAKERwhere you have one of the three things you need

38:01SPEAKERand can't get the other two

38:02SPEAKERor two of the three things you need,

38:03SPEAKERbut can't get the CPU or the memory or whatever.

38:06SPEAKERSo it's a little iffy.

38:08SPEAKERI don't know, it'll be expensive,

38:09SPEAKERbut as long as you keep motherboards and CPUs,

38:11SPEAKERyou're probably fine.

38:12SPEAKER- Yeah, buying into that bleeding edge of a generation

38:17SPEAKERwith the very, very first one is also a little scary.

38:19SPEAKER- I mean, the other thing I'll say is that,

38:22SPEAKERI mean, the AM5 stuff, you probably won't be able to,

38:26SPEAKERfor the longterm, I mean,

38:28SPEAKERthe socket will be physically compatible for a long time.

38:31SPEAKERThey almost always, the first couple of revs have problems

38:34SPEAKERgoing much beyond the next one or the one after.

38:36SPEAKER- Yeah.

38:38SPEAKER- The other thing I'll say though,

38:38SPEAKERis you have the home server.

38:39SPEAKERSo you have a grateful degradation path if you-

38:42SPEAKER- That's true.

38:43SPEAKER- For upgrades.

38:45SPEAKERAnd probably, if you move a more efficient chip

38:48SPEAKERand switch to an OS that actually has power management,

38:51SPEAKERthen you'll end up, I mean, you probably won't save money,

38:55SPEAKERbut you'll spend less running the server.

38:59SPEAKER- I'm asked what the 12 core CPU

39:00SPEAKERdoes have a certain appeal to it.

39:02SPEAKER- I mean, it's also, on the other hand,

39:04SPEAKERit's an incredible waste of power.

39:06SPEAKER- It sure is.

39:07SPEAKER- Yeah.

39:09SPEAKER- Nvidia, our friends at Nvidia announced some stuff.

39:12SPEAKER- Yes.

39:14SPEAKER- Well, in addition to the usual bevy of games

39:16SPEAKERthat support RTX and DLSS,

39:19SPEAKERhello, the Anacrisus supports DLSS.

39:21SPEAKER- Oh?

39:22SPEAKER- Yes.

39:26SPEAKERBut you can play a 4K 60 on any,

39:28SPEAKERlike on almost any of the 2000 series cards.

39:31SPEAKER- Okay.

39:32SPEAKER- Which is kind of cool.

39:35SPEAKER- They announced a couple of new GPUs in the RTX 3050

39:39SPEAKERand the 3050 Ti, which I think are, are they all laptops?

39:43SPEAKERIs that, is that where the,

39:44SPEAKERthose are like the ones that they pair

39:45SPEAKERwith the Intel chip sets for like your,

39:49SPEAKERyour kind of like, I wouldn't say low end

39:51SPEAKER'cause an $800 laptop isn't exactly low end anymore,

39:54SPEAKERbut like in the 800 to like ultra, like $800 to ultra,

39:58SPEAKERwhat would have been an ultrabook a few years ago.

40:00SPEAKER- Yeah.

40:01SPEAKER- Like the 800 to 1000, 1200, 1500 dollar range.

40:05SPEAKER- Those are typically pretty good performance.

40:07SPEAKERLike I've had laptops with those before

40:08SPEAKERand I've been quite, quite pleased

40:10SPEAKERwith the ability to play games

40:11SPEAKERwhile I'm in a hotel room someplace.

40:13SPEAKER- I mean, are we getting into the kind of territory

40:15SPEAKERwhere somebody might just buy a laptop

40:17SPEAKERto be able to play games

40:18SPEAKERbecause they can't get anything else?

40:21SPEAKER- I think I'd buy a pre-built machine

40:22SPEAKERbefore I'd buy a laptop.

40:23SPEAKER- Sure.

40:24SPEAKER- The problem with laptop, with gaming laptops especially,

40:26SPEAKERis that usually like, like the design considerations for,

40:31SPEAKERhey, I want a good usable laptop,

40:33SPEAKERwhich are, I need a bunch of battery in there.

40:35SPEAKERAnd like, if you want a laptop that lasts 10 hours

40:37SPEAKERor 12 hours or 15 hours and you can use it all day,

40:40SPEAKERprobably something with any discrete GPU

40:43SPEAKERis not gonna be your jam, right?

40:45SPEAKER'Cause like the, not only do they draw more power,

40:48SPEAKERbut they also require more space for the coolers

40:51SPEAKERand stuff like that.

40:52SPEAKERSo you have less space for battery in there.

40:53SPEAKERAnd then you end up in a situation where like,

40:55SPEAKERyou have a smaller battery and you have more, you know,

40:59SPEAKERmore stuff drawing power.

41:01SPEAKERSo you end up, not probably in like 45 minute,

41:04SPEAKERlike these laptops, I would assume,

41:05SPEAKERhave pretty good battery life.

41:08SPEAKERBut they're not gonna be like a MacBook,

41:10SPEAKERan M1 MacBook that runs for six days

41:12SPEAKERor whatever ridiculous thing it is.

41:14SPEAKER- Right.

41:15SPEAKER- Is yours fun yet, by the way?

41:16SPEAKER- No, I did pull the trigger, I bought it,

41:18SPEAKERbut it's like, it was like six weeks

41:20SPEAKERbetween making that decision

41:21SPEAKERand actually receiving a product, so.

41:24SPEAKER- Oh, that's a long time.

41:26SPEAKER- Stay tuned for, you know, get back to me

41:28SPEAKERin let's say mid-February when I can tell you

41:31SPEAKERhow the notch is treating me.

41:32SPEAKER- Okay.

41:33SPEAKER- First notch encounter for Brad.

41:36SPEAKER- That's right. - February 2022.

41:37SPEAKER- I'm already taking stock of the various little

41:42SPEAKERbite-sized applications that have come out

41:43SPEAKERto hide the notch or otherwise address it.

41:46SPEAKER- Yeah, look, I think before you do that,

41:49SPEAKERyou have to live with the notch for a minute.

41:51SPEAKERI want you to just bask in it.

41:53SPEAKERI want you to like a literal minute, like 60 seconds,

41:55SPEAKERI think I can do that. - No, no.

41:56SPEAKERI want you to spend some quality time

41:58SPEAKERand I want you to evaluate the notch impartially

42:02SPEAKERas a human being who I think it's gonna be good for you.

42:09SPEAKER- Right now my leading candidate is one

42:10SPEAKERthat just turns the menu bar pitch black

42:12SPEAKERso it kind of disappears into the menu bar,

42:15SPEAKERwhich like I'd really prefer a light gray

42:18SPEAKERor white menu bar on Mac OS, but.

42:20SPEAKER- That's what the phone does though.

42:21SPEAKERThe phone, like most apps,

42:23SPEAKERif the notch is gonna be a problem for the app,

42:25SPEAKERthe phone just blacks out everything

42:27SPEAKERabove the edge of the notch so you don't see it.

42:30SPEAKER- I think that's what they should have done by default.

42:32SPEAKERJust put some diagnostic info up there,

42:34SPEAKERput a clock, put a battery thing.

42:36SPEAKER- That's what's up there.

42:37SPEAKER- Drop the menu bar below.

42:39SPEAKER- It's literally what's up, I mean, on the phone.

42:41SPEAKER- Oh, on the phone, yeah. - What's up there?

42:42SPEAKER- On the phone, totally, I'm talking about the laptop.

42:44SPEAKERYes, I get it.

42:46SPEAKER- They also announced or teased the GeForce 3090 Ti.

42:50SPEAKER- Yeah, which like, what are you gonna do with that?

42:53SPEAKERWhy?

42:54SPEAKER- Well, I mean, a lot of people bought them last year

42:57SPEAKER'cause it was cheaper than buying a scalped 3080 or 3070.

43:01SPEAKER- Sure, I could pay $2,000 for this 3080

43:05SPEAKERor I can just pay 1500 for this 3090.

43:07SPEAKER- Yeah, exactly, the main thing is performance compute.

43:11SPEAKERLike people are doing, like the market for that card

43:14SPEAKERis people who are doing extreme math and machine learning

43:17SPEAKERand stuff like that.

43:18SPEAKER- 3090 remains a productivity type situation.

43:22SPEAKER- I don't think one fits in my case, I'm not sure.

43:25SPEAKERYeah, it's a long boy compared to the 3080.

43:30SPEAKERThey didn't give a whole lot of details,

43:32SPEAKERthey just held it up and they said it seems like

43:35SPEAKERit's a higher clocked version of the existing 3090,

43:38SPEAKERmaybe on new silicon, but that's me guessing, not knowing.

43:44SPEAKER- Where are we at in the standard kind of Nvidia lifecycle?

43:47SPEAKERLike we're--

43:49SPEAKER- 3000 series came out this time last year?

43:51SPEAKER- No, it was more like October.

43:54SPEAKERWe're about 15 months out from the first cards

43:56SPEAKERin this generation shipping.

43:58SPEAKER- So we're probably getting close,

43:59SPEAKERwe're getting into the time

44:00SPEAKERwhen they're gonna start doing,

44:02SPEAKERlike usually it's 18 months to two years,

44:04SPEAKERthe pandemic might've affected some of that.

44:07SPEAKERSo I would be curious to see,

44:09SPEAKERwhen the 3080 came out midway through the 2020?

44:13SPEAKER- It was about October.

44:14SPEAKER- Like fall of 2020.

44:15SPEAKER- September, maybe 2020, something like that.

44:17SPEAKER- Yeah, I don't know and then the TI landed

44:20SPEAKERabout six months after that, as I recall.

44:23SPEAKER- The idea of an RTX 4080 just feels like rubbing salt

44:26SPEAKERin a lot of people's wounds right now.

44:28SPEAKER- I mean, more cards out in the world

44:30SPEAKERmeans more people can, more stuff for people to buy.

44:32SPEAKERThey're getting easier to get.

44:34SPEAKERLike we were able to grab some for work a few weeks ago

44:36SPEAKERwithout a lot of hassle.

44:38SPEAKER- At MSRP?

44:40SPEAKER- I don't, I didn't do the purchase.

44:42SPEAKER- Don't ask too many questions.

44:43SPEAKER- Man, there's a guy out behind the fish market

44:45SPEAKERand we just went out there and the sack, no.

44:49SPEAKERThen like OEMs are still able to get them.

44:51SPEAKERSo the real reason you can't get them on retail as much

44:54SPEAKERis that the OEMs that are getting them, you know,

44:58SPEAKERthrough their normal suppliers

45:00SPEAKERand that's where most of the hardware is going.

45:01SPEAKERSo if you want to get a good video card right now

45:03SPEAKERand you don't want to pay an extreme premium for it,

45:05SPEAKERwhat you generally have to do is buy a pre-built machine,

45:08SPEAKERwhich sucks for people like us who like to upgrade,

45:10SPEAKERbut you know, here we are.

45:12SPEAKER- Yes.

45:13SPEAKER- I mean, I'm kind of interested in like,

45:16SPEAKERI'm always interested in what the high, high, high end

45:18SPEAKERof the Nvidia line looks like,

45:20SPEAKER'cause they tend to do a pretty ridiculous

45:23SPEAKERperformance stuff up there.

45:24SPEAKERBut yeah, I don't know.

45:27SPEAKERIt seems like an event at the end of January

45:28SPEAKERthat we'll have more about that

45:30SPEAKERand maybe hints of what's to come after.

45:32SPEAKER- Sure, I feel like a lot of people are sort of wondering

45:35SPEAKERwhat is to come after in a general sense.

45:38SPEAKER- I mean, look, man, if you could tell me what comes after,

45:40SPEAKERI would be really thrilled.

45:44SPEAKERThe last thing is this matter of smart home standard.

45:48SPEAKER- Yeah.

45:49SPEAKER- Which I think you told me, you were like,

45:50SPEAKER"Hey, do you want to talk about this matter

45:51SPEAKER"smart home standard?"

45:52SPEAKERAnd I just sent over the XKCD

45:54SPEAKERabout how standards proliferate.

45:56SPEAKER- There's an XKCD for everything, it seems.

45:59SPEAKER- There truly is.

46:01SPEAKERSo it's from the people who made Zigbee.

46:07SPEAKERThey're now called the Connected Services Alliance

46:09SPEAKERor Home Alliance or something,

46:11SPEAKERbut they used to be called the Zigbee Alliance.

46:12SPEAKER- You know, there's something about alliance

46:14SPEAKERthat sounds kind of positive and uplifting

46:15SPEAKERin a way the consortium does not.

46:18SPEAKER- I mean, that's true,

46:20SPEAKERbut that's probably just because of Star Wars for you,

46:22SPEAKER'cause you're thinking of the rebel alliance, I think.

46:24SPEAKER- I guess that's true.

46:26SPEAKER- This one, so Zigbee's a mesh network

46:28SPEAKERthat operates in the 2.4 and 5 gigahertz spectrums, I think.

46:33SPEAKERIt doesn't use IP, it's not like wifi or anything like that.

46:36SPEAKERThis matter of smart home standard,

46:38SPEAKERwhich is like a software layer,

46:40SPEAKERhas a protocol called Thread that is a network layer

46:42SPEAKERthat operates over IP.

46:45SPEAKERSo theoretically, you plug it into your network,

46:48SPEAKERyou connect it to your network,

46:50SPEAKERand then stuff just happens

46:51SPEAKERand you don't have to have separate meshes.

46:54SPEAKERIf you need a hub to stay connected to the internet

46:59SPEAKERand bring things from one side to the other,

47:02SPEAKERthen it can live in another device,

47:03SPEAKERlike an Alexa speaker or something like that.

47:07SPEAKERSo you don't need a dedicated hub

47:08SPEAKERlike you would with smart things or home assistant

47:10SPEAKERor any of the other options.

47:13SPEAKER- Right.

47:14SPEAKERHow confident do you feel that this is gonna bear fruit?

47:16SPEAKERI mean, it seems like most of the major manufacturers

47:19SPEAKERare behind it.

47:20SPEAKER- I mean, it seems like 50/50.

47:23SPEAKERI'd give it a 50/50,

47:25SPEAKER'cause often it feels like the manufacturers come in

47:27SPEAKERand they join because everybody else does,

47:30SPEAKERand then they wanna make sure

47:31SPEAKERthat it pushes their vision of the technology forward.

47:35SPEAKERAnd if it doesn't, then they'll just tank it

47:36SPEAKERwith a whole bunch of nonsense.

47:38SPEAKER- That's exactly why I asked,

47:39SPEAKERbecause my experience of connected to home smart stuff to date

47:43SPEAKERhas been the exact opposite of this.

47:44SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, Apple's approach with HomeKit

47:46SPEAKERrequiring a dedicated chip at the beginning

47:48SPEAKERkind of bombed out,

47:49SPEAKERand they backed off of that eventually.

47:54SPEAKERI mean, look, this is a market

47:56SPEAKERI think that's probably still small enough

47:58SPEAKERthat there isn't a leader.

48:01SPEAKERThere's definitely market leaders,

48:02SPEAKERbut whoever has the iPhone-level success here

48:05SPEAKERis going to blow through

48:06SPEAKERwhatever ceiling has previously been established

48:09SPEAKERlike WOW did for EverQuest.

48:10SPEAKER- Sure.

48:11SPEAKER- So, I mean, who knows?

48:14SPEAKERI like the old name for this matter thing much better,

48:16SPEAKER'cause it used to be called chip,

48:17SPEAKERthe connected home over IP.

48:19SPEAKER- Yeah.

48:20SPEAKER- It was a much better name.

48:23SPEAKERYeah, I will look more into it.

48:25SPEAKERIt might be worth doing an episode.

48:26SPEAKERThe nice thing is the matter stuff is all open source.

48:29SPEAKERSo that means the software layer is open source.

48:31SPEAKERI don't know if the protocol, the network protocol is,

48:34SPEAKERthe thread protocol is.

48:36SPEAKERI didn't get that far into the white papers,

48:37SPEAKERbut it's an interesting idea.

48:40SPEAKERAnd the stuff that exists now still sucks.

48:43SPEAKERSo the big TLDR for this is

48:47SPEAKERif you already have a bunch of smart home crap like I do,

48:49SPEAKERprobably you don't care about this,

48:51SPEAKERbut there's a much bigger audience of people out there

48:53SPEAKERthat don't have any smart home crap who probably do care

48:56SPEAKERand have been buying like home kit stuff

48:58SPEAKERand works with Alexa stuff,

48:59SPEAKERwhich is usually just Zigbee or Z-Wave,

49:01SPEAKERbut is labeled works with Alexa

49:04SPEAKERand are disappointed in how it works,

49:05SPEAKER'cause it's kind of shitty.

49:06SPEAKER- Yes, that's what drove me to Home Assistant

49:08SPEAKERin the first place is that all the stuff we had

49:10SPEAKERwas so poorly interoperable.

49:13SPEAKER- The one thing I will say is a lot of the articles

49:15SPEAKERI read about this talked about like not having to translate

49:19SPEAKERfrom IP to the Zigbee layer as a performance benefit,

49:22SPEAKERwhich is just stupid because like hitting a button

49:25SPEAKERon your Home Assistant or SmartThings hub

49:30SPEAKERto send a radio signal to Zigbee 15 feet away from you

49:33SPEAKERis still an operation that's under 100 milliseconds

49:36SPEAKERevery time I've ever tried to time it.

49:38SPEAKERSo yeah, it's like non-issue.

49:43SPEAKER- Well, hey, if you're trying to promote your new standard

49:45SPEAKERand justify its existence.

49:48SPEAKER- I have been to so many,

49:49SPEAKERhey, we have a new standard meetings at CES.

49:53SPEAKERThe best one of all time was the,

49:54SPEAKERhey, remember Play Anywhere?

49:57SPEAKERThe code that you would get with a Blu-ray disc

50:00SPEAKERthat would let you play it on Disney movies anywhere

50:04SPEAKERor Hulu or Sling or Voodoo or Apple TV or whatever.

50:10SPEAKERYeah, those people were like,

50:11SPEAKERwe have an exciting new standard.

50:13SPEAKERAll the studios are on board except Paramount.

50:16SPEAKERAnd like, it's gonna go really good.

50:19SPEAKERWe're gonna have a really good time with this.

50:20SPEAKERIt's gonna be fantastic.

50:21SPEAKERIt's gonna, we're like,

50:22SPEAKERyou're not even gonna want a Blu-ray in two years.

50:24SPEAKERYou're just gonna buy a Play Anywhere code

50:25SPEAKER'cause it'd be so awesome.

50:26SPEAKERI think they're still in the things.

50:29SPEAKERI don't have any idea.

50:30SPEAKEREight people use that thing, right?

50:33SPEAKERLike that's, it's really hard to tell what's bullshit

50:37SPEAKERand what isn't bullshit

50:38SPEAKERwhen you're inside the reality distortion field of CES.

50:42SPEAKER- Indeed.

50:44SPEAKERI think they pump oxygen into that place.

50:45SPEAKERYou know, it is in Vegas after all.

50:48SPEAKER- Oh man, they always do.

50:50SPEAKERThe secret of going to CES,

50:53SPEAKERI'm gonna spoil it 'cause I intend to never go to CES again

50:56SPEAKERunless somebody pays me,

50:58SPEAKERI would say like five to six figures probably,

51:02SPEAKERlike high fives, not 10K is not gonna do it.

51:07SPEAKERThe secret of going to CES is to stay someplace

51:09SPEAKERyou don't have to walk to a casino to get to your room.

51:13SPEAKERSo which is why we always used to stay

51:14SPEAKERat the Planet Hollywood Towers,

51:15SPEAKERwhich is just condos that is attached

51:18SPEAKERto the Planet Hollywood.

51:19SPEAKERAnd they had a separate entrance

51:20SPEAKERthat didn't require walking through the casino.

51:22SPEAKER- Now, what is the danger there exactly?

51:24SPEAKERI mean, I can think of a lot of them,

51:25SPEAKERbut I'm specifically in your experience.

51:27SPEAKER- Well, so walking through the casino,

51:28SPEAKERyou just end up smelling like cigarette smoke and sadness.

51:30SPEAKER- Okay.

51:31SPEAKER- So like, you have to go through the casino to eat.

51:34SPEAKERThe casinos are unavoidable,

51:36SPEAKERbut what you don't wanna do is get back to your room,

51:38SPEAKERbe like, I'm gonna, I got 20 minutes to take a nap.

51:40SPEAKERI'm gonna lay down for 20 minutes and close my eyes

51:42SPEAKERand then get up and be like,

51:42SPEAKERoh fuck, I smell like cigarette smoke.

51:44SPEAKERAnd now my pillow smells like cigarette smoke.

51:47SPEAKERSo.

51:47SPEAKER- The less time you spend reminding yourself

51:49SPEAKERthat you're in Las Vegas, the better.

51:51SPEAKER- Yeah, exactly.

51:52SPEAKERLike don't go to the, don't enjoy the pool scene.

51:55SPEAKERDon't catch a show.

51:56SPEAKER- No.

51:57SPEAKER- Maybe, pretty good.

51:58SPEAKERBut like, aside from that, that's your own Roy,

52:03SPEAKERa pen and teller, Jesus.

52:04SPEAKER- Yes.

52:05SPEAKERWhat was your buffet policy while at CES?

52:08SPEAKER- I'm gonna call out Mike Tatum

52:09SPEAKER'cause after the first successful CES we made,

52:12SPEAKERwe brought five people to CES.

52:14SPEAKERWe made 43 videos, as I recall, whilst at the show.

52:18SPEAKER- Okay.

52:19SPEAKER- Pretty good amount of videos

52:21SPEAKERfor the number of people we had there.

52:22SPEAKER- That's a lot.

52:23SPEAKER- We did five live shows that were at least three

52:25SPEAKERor four hours long, podcasts every day.

52:28SPEAKERWe had guests, we had, we broke news.

52:31SPEAKERWe saw USBC for the first time.

52:33SPEAKERI was like, hey, can I take everybody to like the buffet

52:36SPEAKERfor dinner tonight on the last day

52:37SPEAKERbefore we drive home the next morning?

52:38SPEAKERIt's like, we don't have budget for that, man.

52:40SPEAKER(laughing)

52:41SPEAKER- What?

52:41SPEAKER- Yeah.

52:43SPEAKER- Which buffet would you have gone to?

52:45SPEAKER- I probably would have gone to the one

52:46SPEAKERover in the fancy new hotels.

52:50SPEAKEROh God, what's it called?

52:52SPEAKERThe something spoon, the gilded spoon.

52:55SPEAKERThe, hold on, I'm gonna look it up.

53:00SPEAKER- I don't know why I always had the idea

53:01SPEAKERthat the Bellagio was the nice buffet, but.

53:03SPEAKER- It was for a long, long time.

53:04SPEAKER- Okay.

53:05SPEAKER- We, Norman, Joey and I one time went to,

53:09SPEAKERthis was after we brought a bunch of people to CES.

53:12SPEAKERWe went to the seafood buffet at,

53:19SPEAKERcan't remember where, maybe MGM.

53:22SPEAKERIt was someplace, it was in the lower levels

53:23SPEAKERof one of the older casinos.

53:26SPEAKERIt was, I'm gonna go and tell you, seafood buffet,

53:29SPEAKERalways a mistake.

53:30SPEAKER- I was literally, the words seafood buffet

53:33SPEAKERseems like a mistake were just flashing through my brain

53:36SPEAKERas you talked about that.

53:37SPEAKER- A wicked spoon at the Cosmopolitan

53:38SPEAKERis the one that is the banger.

53:41SPEAKER- Okay, so you'd like a talking spoon, no thank you,

53:43SPEAKERbut a wicked spoon I could get down with.

53:45SPEAKER- Yeah, I'm gonna say my general move though,

53:48SPEAKERpass on the buffet, 'cause they're usually really expensive

53:52SPEAKERand I'm never gonna eat enough to recoup my investment

53:55SPEAKERwithout hurting myself.

53:56SPEAKER- And then you're just gonna feel very sad later.

53:58SPEAKER- Yeah, and I would much rather go to the good Thai place

54:03SPEAKERthat's off strip or even like Sage.

54:06SPEAKERThere's a bunch of, the thing that happened

54:08SPEAKERis all the fancy chefs opened restaurants in Vegas

54:11SPEAKERand even their fast casual things are usually pretty good,

54:15SPEAKERbut like Bouchon in the Venetian always is delicious.

54:23SPEAKERThere's a Peking duck place in the Wynn

54:24SPEAKERthat is as good as any place in San Francisco, I think.

54:31SPEAKERJust go out there and eat the foods.

54:36SPEAKERYeah, it's good.

54:37SPEAKER- Or don't go out there at all.

54:39SPEAKER- Yeah, or order a Cobb salad from room service

54:42SPEAKERand never leave your room if you don't have to.

54:43SPEAKER- That's right.

54:44SPEAKER- That's always been my policy.

54:46SPEAKER- That's right.

54:47SPEAKER- Well, would you go to CES?

54:50SPEAKER- No, thank you, you're very good, yes.

54:52SPEAKER- Congratulations, you've made it through another CES.

54:55SPEAKER- I think the last one I went to was 2014,

54:57SPEAKERprobably at this point, maybe 2015, I can't remember.

55:01SPEAKERI miss it a little bit, but not really is what I would say.

55:04SPEAKER- That's how I feel about E3.

55:05SPEAKERLike there are things you miss about it, but on the whole.

55:09SPEAKER- Yeah, like honestly, like CES is such a less

55:13SPEAKERa networking event than E3 even is.

55:15SPEAKERLike E3 is small enough that like if you're at those,

55:18SPEAKERif you have those food trucks in the middle of the day

55:20SPEAKERgetting lunch, you're gonna see like five people

55:22SPEAKERyou know at least.

55:23SPEAKER- Yeah, yes.

55:24SPEAKER- And like that part, I miss, like I'm missing that.

55:27SPEAKERCES is not a scale that you can do that.

55:29SPEAKEROccasionally we'd like bump into the Wirecutter people

55:31SPEAKERor the Gizmodo people.

55:32SPEAKERLike we'd see folks we know and while we're waiting

55:34SPEAKERfor something that like press people go to.

55:36SPEAKERBut for the most part, it's just a bunch of people

55:38SPEAKERthey're trying to figure out what to buy for their,

55:40SPEAKERfor like the Singaporean equivalent of Best Buy, right?

55:44SPEAKER- Yes.

55:45SPEAKER- So it's a lot and I don't miss, I don't miss that.

55:49SPEAKERI miss going to GDC, I miss going to E3 and stuff like that.

55:51SPEAKERAnyway, we've reached the portion of the show

55:54SPEAKERwhere we thank our listeners, Brad.

55:55SPEAKER- We have, and I would like to say, thank you.

55:59SPEAKER- Thank you listeners.

56:01SPEAKER- Thank you patrons.

56:01SPEAKER- Thank you patrons.

56:03SPEAKERThank you listeners and thank you patrons.

56:04SPEAKER- Yeah.

56:05SPEAKER- But yeah, we should not exclude the non-patron listeners.

56:08SPEAKER- That's a good point.

56:10SPEAKER- As always, we would like to tell you that Brad and Will

56:12SPEAKERmade a tech pod is a 100% listener supported show.

56:17SPEAKERWithout the listeners, the show wouldn't happen.

56:18SPEAKERSo without the patrons, the show wouldn't happen.

56:21SPEAKERAnd if you would like to find out

56:22SPEAKERhow to support the show on Patreon,

56:24SPEAKERyou can go to patreon.com/techpod.

56:26SPEAKERAgain, it's patreon.com/techpod.

56:29SPEAKER- Hang on, can I clarify that's patreon.com/techpod?

56:33SPEAKER- It's patreon.com/techpod.

56:36SPEAKER- Wait, you said, we said it four times, is that?

56:38SPEAKER- Three is the sweet spot, did we, do we go too far?

56:41SPEAKER- Did we just pass some kind of cognitive tipping point

56:43SPEAKERwhere four times is gonna make them forget?

56:46SPEAKER- They're never gonna sign up now, they're annoyed.

56:47SPEAKERAnyway, you can sign up for two bucks a month,

56:49SPEAKERyou can gain access to the fabulous tech pod discord

56:51SPEAKERwhere there's a bunch of beautiful nerds

56:52SPEAKERtalking about awesome stuff all the time.

56:55SPEAKERLike the conversations that happened during the keynotes,

57:01SPEAKERthe CES keynotes, a little more subdued

57:03SPEAKERthan the ones during the E3 keynotes, I'm not gonna lie.

57:05SPEAKER- Yeah, you know, I think I'm gonna say on balance,

57:08SPEAKERthis is a pretty, I don't wanna say underwhelming CES,

57:11SPEAKERbut very meat and potatoes.

57:12SPEAKERI do not feel particularly whelmed.

57:14SPEAKER- Yes.

57:16SPEAKER- Hey, there's some new CPU stuff,

57:17SPEAKERthere's some new graphics card stuff,

57:18SPEAKERthere's new TVs, there's new VR stuff, there's new phones.

57:22SPEAKERIt's a CES.

57:23SPEAKER- Yeah, that's, yeah, it's a CES.

57:26SPEAKER- Yes.

57:27SPEAKER- But yeah, thank you to all of our patrons,

57:29SPEAKERbut especially to our executive producer tier patrons,

57:31SPEAKERincluding Paddle Creek Games, makers of Fractured Veil,

57:34SPEAKERAndrew Slosky, #bunnycrimes.

57:37SPEAKER- Bunnycrimes.

57:38SPEAKER- Jacob Chappell, Joel Krauska, Twinkle Twinkie,

57:41SPEAKERDavid Allen, and James Kamik.

57:42SPEAKERThank you all so much, we really appreciate you.

57:44SPEAKER- Thank you, thank you, thank you.

57:45SPEAKER- And again, if you wanna find out,

57:46SPEAKERyou can get everything from access

57:49SPEAKERto the patron-only episode,

57:50SPEAKERwhich you heard a couple weeks ago.

57:51SPEAKERWe gave you a patron-only episode a couple weeks ago

57:54SPEAKERwhen, over the Christmas holiday,

57:57SPEAKERwhen I was in the hospital. - That's right.

57:58SPEAKERPreviously, we had debased ourselves

58:00SPEAKERonly before our patrons,

58:01SPEAKERbut now we've done it for the entire world.

58:03SPEAKER- Brad's shame is out there for everyone to see now.

58:07SPEAKERThat'll be it for us this week.

58:09SPEAKERWe'll be back next week with another episode of Brad Wilme

58:11SPEAKERto TechPod.

58:13SPEAKERAs always, send your emails to techpod@content.town

58:16SPEAKERif you'd like to have questions turned into answers,

58:18SPEAKERor you can post them in the Discord channel

58:20SPEAKERif you're a patron.

58:23SPEAKERAnd I guess we'll see you all next week.

58:26SPEAKER- You guess?

58:27SPEAKER- I mean, I'm planning on it.

58:29SPEAKER- Okay, fine, I'll be there too.

58:30SPEAKER- I mean, there could be a meteor or something.

58:32SPEAKERI can't believe I forgot to cold open this.

58:34SPEAKER- Go on.

58:35SPEAKER- The James Webb Space Telescope is fully deployed.

58:38SPEAKERIt's an observatory now.

58:40SPEAKERThere's a mirror in place to reflect light

58:42SPEAKERback in the general direction of sensors.

58:45SPEAKERThe sun shield has expanded.

58:46SPEAKER344 critical single points of failure

58:50SPEAKERhave successfully completed.

58:51SPEAKER- What was the, was it Hubble in the '90s?

58:55SPEAKERWas Hubble the one that had the mirror

58:57SPEAKERthat was out of focus?

58:58SPEAKER- Yeah, they had a bum mirror in it.

58:59SPEAKERThey didn't check the mirrors enough

59:00SPEAKERbefore they put it in.

59:01SPEAKERThey had to send astronauts up to fix it.

59:03SPEAKERBut James Webb is at the L2 Lagrange point,

59:05SPEAKERlike trailing Earth.

59:06SPEAKERSo it can't, maybe it's ahead of Earth.

59:08SPEAKERI can't remember.

59:09SPEAKERBut anyway, it's really far away.

59:10SPEAKERWe couldn't send people to fix it if it jacked up.

59:12SPEAKER- Oh.

59:13SPEAKER- So it would just be $10 billion flush down the toilet.

59:15SPEAKER- Oh wow, I didn't realize the stakes were that high.

59:17SPEAKER- Oh yeah, it's like,

59:19SPEAKERI can't imagine the tenterhooks

59:21SPEAKERthat the people who are running this project have been on

59:26SPEAKERsince, for the last two weeks

59:27SPEAKERsince they launched it on Christmas.

59:31SPEAKERPresumably, it's cooling down now.

59:33SPEAKER- Okay.

59:35SPEAKER- Five months, I believe, to the first images.

59:39SPEAKER- It's a scientific marvel so far.

59:41SPEAKER- It's very exciting.

59:42SPEAKER- Yeah, Marvel engineering.

59:43SPEAKERNice job, everybody.

59:44SPEAKER- Yes.

59:45SPEAKER- We should do an episode about that.

59:46SPEAKER- We should.

59:47SPEAKER- That would be way more fun than a PCI Express episode.

59:49SPEAKER- I think you're right about that.

59:52SPEAKER- Have a good week, everybody.

59:52SPEAKERWe'll see you next week.

59:53SPEAKER(upbeat music)