108: Deez Network Servers

00:00SPEAKERI greased up my mic.

00:02SPEAKERWhat?

00:02SPEAKERI greased up, I'm lubed up and ready to talk.

00:08SPEAKERI don't, look, we don't have terms of service here

00:10SPEAKER'cause it's a podcast, we can say whatever we want,

00:12SPEAKERbut you.

00:14SPEAKERYou?

00:15SPEAKERYou.

00:16SPEAKERI don't wanna talk about your mic lube, man.

00:18SPEAKERWas it you about a greasy microphone?

00:20SPEAKERThat's, like, I do a lot of work

00:21SPEAKERto make sure my microphone never gets greasy.

00:24SPEAKERIt's very important that, like, I,

00:28SPEAKERyou're holding up a tube that is labeled super lube

00:31SPEAKERwith a rainbow. Super lube.

00:33SPEAKERAnd then underneath it says multi-purpose synthetic grease.

00:35SPEAKERI know that one of those purposes is microphones

00:37SPEAKERand I don't wanna know what the other purposes are.

00:41SPEAKERWe're actually talking about the mechanics and springs

00:44SPEAKERinside of the mic arm.

00:45SPEAKERWell, that's a different thing.

00:46SPEAKERThat's different, that's where grease goes.

00:48SPEAKERGrease does not go on a microphone, I just thought.

00:50SPEAKERThe image, the imagery of a greasy microphone.

00:53SPEAKERWait, do you use, use that kind of,

00:55SPEAKERdo you use, like, grease in a, I use this little,

00:58SPEAKERthis spray Teflon-y stuff for that kind of lubing.

01:00SPEAKERI've got our typical, our typical lubricants,

01:03SPEAKERour typical lubricant array around the house is.

01:06SPEAKERWelcome to Brad and Will Made a Lube Cast.

01:08SPEAKERI'm Will.

01:09SPEAKERDude.

01:10SPEAKERI've had, so let me back up.

01:13SPEAKERI got this, this is a Rode PSA1 microphone stand.

01:16SPEAKERYes, it's a great microphone stand.

01:18SPEAKERIt is occasionally squeaky.

01:19SPEAKERIt's great, except yeah, about two weeks after I got it,

01:21SPEAKERit started grinding internally in a real unpleasant way.

01:24SPEAKEROh, that I never ground, mine just,

01:26SPEAKERthe springs squeak a little bit.

01:27SPEAKERAnyway, I've had a text file entitled lubes.txt

01:32SPEAKERon my desktop for the last five months or something.

01:36SPEAKERYeah, of course, why not?

01:37SPEAKERBecause I was asking people like,

01:38SPEAKER"Hey, what's a good metal-on-metal lubricant?"

01:42SPEAKERCan we?

01:42SPEAKERAnd I noted some down and I kept worrying, like,

01:44SPEAKER"Man, my desktop is gonna end up on a stream sometime,"

01:47SPEAKEReventually, and people are gonna see lubes.txt

01:50SPEAKERand make some assumptions.

01:52SPEAKEREverybody needs it sometime, Brad, it's fine.

01:54SPEAKERIt's just a part of life, but...

01:57SPEAKERSo our normal lube kit around the house is just WD-40

02:01SPEAKERand then we have a silicone spray.

02:03SPEAKERSo I was gonna say, here's the mistake

02:05SPEAKERthat like 99% of Americans at least use,

02:09SPEAKERwhich is they think, "Oh, something's squeaking.

02:11SPEAKERI should put some WD-40 on it,"

02:13SPEAKERbecause marketing works in the '80s.

02:15SPEAKERYes, that was very, we were very much a WD-40 household.

02:18SPEAKERYeah, so that's a terrible thing to do

02:20SPEAKERunless you're trying to get water out of a place

02:22SPEAKERwhere there shouldn't be water.

02:23SPEAKER- Yeah, like it's, do I understand it's not a lubricant,

02:25SPEAKERit's a degreaser, is that right?

02:26SPEAKER- WD stands for water displacement

02:29SPEAKERand the 40 is the 40th formulation of it,

02:31SPEAKERis my understanding that they made.

02:33SPEAKER- Water displacement 40?

02:34SPEAKER- Water displacement 40.

02:36SPEAKERAnd the whole point of it is if you get water into a joint

02:39SPEAKERwhere you don't want water and don't want it to rust,

02:41SPEAKERthen you blast WD-40 in and it'll remove,

02:44SPEAKERit'll help the water work its way out faster

02:46SPEAKERand then prevent you from seizing up that joint with rust.

02:49SPEAKERBut it's not, it's absolutely not like

02:52SPEAKERa long-term good lubricant for like a squeaky hinge

02:56SPEAKERor a squeaky spring or something like that.

02:58SPEAKER- So I had come to understand that and furthermore,

03:01SPEAKEReven that silicone spray, which I think is good

03:04SPEAKERfor metal on metal contact.

03:05SPEAKER- It's good for a lot of stuff, yeah.

03:06SPEAKER- But it's still liquid and this is something

03:08SPEAKERI am extending over my desk every day

03:10SPEAKERand I didn't want something that's gonna drip or run

03:12SPEAKEReven inside the arm, let alone outside of it.

03:15SPEAKERThe Super Lube recommendation came from engineer Nate

03:17SPEAKERon our discord actually, who like, as his name implies,

03:21SPEAKERhe knows his stuff regarding mechanical things.

03:24SPEAKER- Well, I'm gonna make a new role for Nate.

03:26SPEAKERThat's Lube, Lube Meister, I think is probably

03:29SPEAKERwhat we'll call him.

03:30SPEAKER- As a matter of fact, Super Lube had been noted

03:32SPEAKERin lubes.txt for some time now and I finally got around

03:35SPEAKERto trawling multiple Ace Hardwares around here

03:38SPEAKERuntil I found it too.

03:39SPEAKERBut he said this is his go-to standard grease

03:42SPEAKERfor just multipurpose, as it says right there in the label,

03:46SPEAKERmultipurpose synthetic grease.

03:47SPEAKERIt's even food safe.

03:49SPEAKER- So I got this stuff for hinges.

03:50SPEAKERI wish I could remember what it was called,

03:51SPEAKERbut if I find it, I'll put it in show notes.

03:53SPEAKERBut it's probably really bad for the environment

03:55SPEAKER'cause I think it has PTFE in it, the Teflon-y stuff.

04:00SPEAKERBut I'm gonna go and tell you, it comes in a little syringe.

04:02SPEAKERYou put like three drops in the top of the hinge

04:04SPEAKERand then kind of pull the hinge up a little bit,

04:06SPEAKERput a couple of drops in there, tamp it back down

04:09SPEAKERand then the hinge pin and boom, never squeaks again.

04:12SPEAKER- You're just gonna willingly poison the environment

04:15SPEAKERso you can have a non-squeaky hinge.

04:17SPEAKER- Well, look, the environment was already poisoned

04:19SPEAKERby the time it got to my hardware store

04:21SPEAKERand I just picked it up from the hardware store.

04:22SPEAKERSo I'm using every piece of the environment, Brad.

04:27SPEAKER- Oh, is it the industrial processes?

04:29SPEAKERWhat does the polluting, not the use of it?

04:31SPEAKER- I think my understanding is that the mechanism

04:35SPEAKERby which we create Teflon and Teflon-like substances

04:38SPEAKERhas resulted in cows with six legs

04:40SPEAKERand all sorts of other biological and ecological nightmares

04:43SPEAKERin the Pennsylvania region.

04:44SPEAKER- I mean, you could argue though that even if

04:45SPEAKEReven if it's the manufacturing process

04:47SPEAKERand it's the pollution already happened

04:48SPEAKERbefore it got to you by buying another tube of it

04:51SPEAKERor another bottle or whatever of it,

04:53SPEAKERyou are promoting further production of it.

04:55SPEAKER- You could argue that.

04:56SPEAKER- Look, all I know is there is no ethical lubrication

04:59SPEAKERunder capitalism.

05:01SPEAKER- Oh no.

05:02SPEAKER(upbeat music)

05:14SPEAKER(upbeat music)

05:32SPEAKER- Welcome to Brad and Will Made a Tech Pod.

05:34SPEAKERI'm Will.

05:35SPEAKER- I'm Brad.

05:36SPEAKERHello, it's Saturday morning.

05:37SPEAKERI'm ready to talk tech.

05:39SPEAKER- I've got half a cup of coffee, a full glass of water.

05:42SPEAKERI'm ready to go.

05:43SPEAKER- I've got, look, this is my favorite kind of episode, Brad.

05:46SPEAKER- Yeah.

05:47SPEAKER- Opary time, baby.

05:48SPEAKER- Opary, let's just shake up the shaker a little bit.

05:50SPEAKERJust some floral fragrance in here.

05:52SPEAKERI've got, by comparison, I've got an empty cup of coffee

05:56SPEAKERand half a glass of water.

05:57SPEAKER- Can we shout out our friend Samet from The Verge

06:00SPEAKERwho was on Jeopardy a few weeks ago?

06:01SPEAKER- Sure.

06:02SPEAKER- Did you see that?

06:03SPEAKER- No.

06:03SPEAKER- It was awesome, he was on Jeopardy.

06:04SPEAKERIt was really, I have a couple of friends

06:06SPEAKERwho've been on Jeopardy.

06:07SPEAKERIt's cool every time.

06:08SPEAKERI love seeing friends on Jeopardy.

06:09SPEAKER- I didn't see the episode, I should clarify.

06:11SPEAKERI saw some chatter about it on Twitter,

06:12SPEAKERbut I don't, I wouldn't, now that I think about it,

06:14SPEAKERI wouldn't know off the top of my head

06:15SPEAKERhow to view Jeopardy at this point.

06:17SPEAKERLike, I don't know how I would actually access

06:19SPEAKERthe program Jeopardy in 2021.

06:22SPEAKER- I watched it on Hulu,

06:24SPEAKERbut like I go to Hulu TV, so that's how I saw it.

06:27SPEAKER- Sure, like I like, sorry, go ahead.

06:30SPEAKER- When I watch stuff on Hulu,

06:32SPEAKERthere's ambiguity about the source for it

06:34SPEAKERbecause they don't make it clear

06:35SPEAKERwhat's part of your Hulu TV subscription

06:37SPEAKERand what is just like a normal show that's on Hulu.

06:40SPEAKER- Yeah, YouTube TV is very frustrating.

06:41SPEAKERIt is the same and yes, I also agree.

06:43SPEAKERLike something about the intermingling

06:46SPEAKERof network programming, things that are broadcast

06:49SPEAKERor even on cable and like internet streams,

06:52SPEAKERyep, does not sit right.

06:53SPEAKERIt doesn't sit right at all.

06:55SPEAKER- YouTube makes it way worse

06:56SPEAKER'cause like I've been watching Taskmaster lately

06:58SPEAKERat our friend Casey's recommendation

07:01SPEAKERand are you familiar with the Taskmaster?

07:03SPEAKER- I've heard, again, I've seen chatter.

07:05SPEAKERI don't know much about it.

07:06SPEAKER- So you would love Taskmaster 'cause it is perfect.

07:09SPEAKERIt is a very good like game show.

07:13SPEAKERIt's British, there's a smarmy English man and his stooge

07:17SPEAKERand they provide tasks to a group of like five comedians

07:21SPEAKERand the comedians have to figure out how to do weird things

07:25SPEAKERlike, you know, stand, there'll be a piece of red felt

07:29SPEAKERthat's 20 feet across and yet there's a hole in the middle

07:31SPEAKERand they have one potato and they have to get the potato

07:33SPEAKERinto the hole without touching the felt.

07:36SPEAKER- Okay.

07:37SPEAKER- And they all take weird approaches to it

07:40SPEAKERand then the English smarmy guy yells at them

07:42SPEAKERfor doing it badly and gives them arbitrary ratings

07:45SPEAKERand at the end of the episode, somebody wins and loses

07:47SPEAKERand it really doesn't matter who.

07:49SPEAKER- It's truly the only dichotomy of television programming

07:52SPEAKERis affable British man or irritable British man.

07:56SPEAKER(laughing)

07:58SPEAKER- He is an affable, irritable British man.

08:00SPEAKERI like, I would enjoy a dinner meal with him

08:03SPEAKEReven though it'd probably be roasting.

08:04SPEAKERSo anyway, watch Taskmaster.

08:06SPEAKERI didn't know the whole thing. - The whole thing's on YouTube.

08:08SPEAKER- That show, are they all mechanical challenges

08:10SPEAKERgenerally, physical?

08:12SPEAKER- No, sometimes it's like, there's one that they do

08:16SPEAKERsometimes that's like, they have three people on a team

08:18SPEAKERand one person can see, one person can hear

08:20SPEAKERand one person can talk,

08:21SPEAKERbut the other two can't do the other things.

08:23SPEAKERSo they have to do some sort of challenge

08:25SPEAKERlike walk across the field with a bucket of water

08:27SPEAKERor something, like it's often mechanical,

08:30SPEAKERbut there's usually some sort of mind element to it

08:32SPEAKERthat makes it challenging and difficult.

08:36SPEAKERIt's almost always an exercise in out of the box thinking

08:39SPEAKERlike, you know, and all bets are off.

08:42SPEAKERLike if you, sometimes if you have to carry

08:44SPEAKERa big rock up a hill,

08:46SPEAKERyou can try to do it yourself with a wheelbarrow

08:48SPEAKERor you can just call the moving company and be like,

08:51SPEAKERhey, can you be here within an hour to move this rock

08:53SPEAKERto the top of the hill for me?

08:55SPEAKERAnd then they say, yes.

08:56SPEAKER- Okay.

08:57SPEAKER- Or you can get like bystanders to help, whatever.

08:59SPEAKERLike there's no rules.

09:02SPEAKER- No rules, just right.

09:03SPEAKER- No rules, just right.

09:05SPEAKER- I can't even remember whose slogan that is.

09:07SPEAKERI'll look that up.

09:08SPEAKEREvery time I had seen talk about Taskmaster,

09:09SPEAKERI assumed it was just some Marvel thing

09:11SPEAKERbecause of the Marvel character Taskmaster.

09:14SPEAKER- I mean, he could be a Marvel super villain.

09:15SPEAKERI don't know.

09:16SPEAKERHe's British.

09:17SPEAKERHe's an accent.

09:18SPEAKER- Wait, he's the guy in the suit?

09:19SPEAKERIs that what you're saying?

09:20SPEAKER- Yeah, the guy in the suit is the bad guy.

09:22SPEAKERAlso the host.

09:23SPEAKERI don't know.

09:23SPEAKERHe's the Taskmaster.

09:26SPEAKEROkay, so potpourri episode today.

09:28SPEAKER- Boy, we don't talk about current events

09:30SPEAKERevery week around here,

09:31SPEAKERbut there are sure are some current events this week.

09:34SPEAKER- Well, sometimes Facebook goes down

09:35SPEAKERfor five and a half hours.

09:36SPEAKERSometimes the top 10,000 streamers

09:39SPEAKERon Twitch's earnings are leaked.

09:41SPEAKER- The entirety of Twitch's code base

09:43SPEAKERback to the beginning makes its way into public?

09:45SPEAKER- Yeah, and sometimes Windows 11 comes out

09:47SPEAKERand I install it on my machine at eight o'clock at night

09:49SPEAKERon a Tuesday for no reason at all

09:50SPEAKERother than that I like human suffering.

09:52SPEAKER- You might say it was one heck of a week.

09:56SPEAKER- Cue music.

09:57SPEAKER- Okay.

09:58SPEAKER- Okay, so we're gonna start with Facebook.

09:59SPEAKERI think this is the big thing.

10:01SPEAKER- Yeah, I think it has to.

10:02SPEAKERAs much as the Twitch thing seems scandalous

10:04SPEAKERand kind of salacious with all the amounts of money

10:06SPEAKERbeing flowing around and like security breaches

10:08SPEAKERand source code and stuff like historical,

10:10SPEAKERlike from a historical perspective,

10:13SPEAKERthe extent to which Facebook went down

10:15SPEAKERand the effect it had on the entire internet

10:17SPEAKERseems like the thing here.

10:19SPEAKER- Facebook went down for a long,

10:21SPEAKERlike the line from the movie about the Facebook

10:25SPEAKERis Facebook never goes down.

10:28SPEAKERIt's the thing that separates us from everybody else

10:29SPEAKERor whatever Fake Zuckerberg said in the social network.

10:33SPEAKER- I haven't seen that movie since pretty much it came out.

10:36SPEAKERI wonder how it holds up.

10:38SPEAKER- I really love, like I listen to the score

10:41SPEAKERfrom that movie all the time when I'm working.

10:43SPEAKER- Did Trent Reznor do that?

10:44SPEAKER- Did I need like quiet time to work?

10:45SPEAKERWell, Atticus Ross, but Trent Reznor, yeah.

10:47SPEAKER- Interesting, I might have to look that up, too.

10:49SPEAKERI wouldn't mind seeing it again.

10:51SPEAKER- It is, it's worth watching because of how quaint it is

10:55SPEAKER'cause it was made at a time when they were like

10:57SPEAKERjust about to cross a billion users or something like that

10:59SPEAKERand it was like, you don't make a billion,

11:02SPEAKERyou don't make a billion friends

11:04SPEAKERwithout making a few enemies or something like that.

11:07SPEAKER- And like in a world where they have three,

11:08SPEAKERfour billion people on their services,

11:10SPEAKERnow it seems positively quaint.

11:12SPEAKER- That was the one thing when that movie came out

11:14SPEAKERthat kind of stuck in my craw a little bit

11:16SPEAKERwas it seems maybe a little early to be making this movie

11:19SPEAKERconsidering the history of this thing

11:20SPEAKERhas not fully played out yet, it's very current.

11:23SPEAKER- Yeah, it was kind of ripped from the headlines.

11:26SPEAKER- I was kind of surprised that somebody like Fincher

11:28SPEAKERwould make that movie when he did

11:30SPEAKERas opposed to like say 20 years later, but.

11:32SPEAKER- Well, I mean, he can do "Social Network 2"

11:35SPEAKERand it ends with Zuckerberg just turning into Lex Luthor.

11:40SPEAKEROkay, so let's start with Facebook.

11:42SPEAKERIt's also weird to me that a Windows can come out

11:44SPEAKERand it's the first new Windows in like five years

11:46SPEAKERand it's like the fourth tier story.

11:49SPEAKERAnd I don't think I saw Windows 11 trend on Twitter.

11:52SPEAKERI didn't see, nobody obviously waited in line

11:54SPEAKER'cause it would be insane to do that now.

11:56SPEAKER- I don't know that you can.

11:57SPEAKERI have been trying to figure out if you can even

11:59SPEAKERjust buy a boxed retail copy of Windows 11

12:01SPEAKERand I don't know that you can at the moment.

12:03SPEAKER- You think you just buy a number?

12:05SPEAKER- If that, yeah, I mean, I guess you could buy a key.

12:08SPEAKERIt's unclear 'cause remember that rollout

12:09SPEAKERis being managed in stages.

12:12SPEAKERLike most eligible devices aren't gonna get access

12:14SPEAKERto the upgrade until like next spring,

12:16SPEAKERI think they're saying.

12:16SPEAKER- Well, they're doing the smart thing that they do

12:18SPEAKERwith the insider hype stuff

12:19SPEAKERwhere like they let the crazy people on the beta branches

12:22SPEAKERand the dev branches test stuff first

12:24SPEAKERand then they'll roll it out to people

12:26SPEAKERas their configurations are known good.

12:28SPEAKER- Yeah, it's only super smart.

12:29SPEAKER- And yeah, and you can freely go download the ISO

12:32SPEAKERand just force install it yourself if you want.

12:34SPEAKERBut I don't think there is a boxed Windows 11 product yet

12:38SPEAKERif there ever will be.

12:40SPEAKER- I remember when Windows 7 came out,

12:42SPEAKERMicrosoft brought to Maximum PC the box,

12:45SPEAKERwhen they were doing the, "Hey, here's the final code,"

12:48SPEAKER'cause they usually would bring it over

12:49SPEAKERand they'd make kind of a big deal about it.

12:51SPEAKERAnd they brought the boxes, those Windows 7 boxes

12:54SPEAKERwith the weird curve on the side.

12:55SPEAKER- I've still got mine.

12:56SPEAKERThose were kind of neat.

12:57SPEAKER- It was a good box.

12:58SPEAKER- I've got the, I've also got, wait.

13:00SPEAKEROh no, I actually don't.

13:01SPEAKERI started to say I thought I had

13:03SPEAKERthe Bill Gates signature Windows Vista,

13:05SPEAKERbut I don't think that's actually right.

13:08SPEAKER- Well, you know what that one's worth.

13:10SPEAKER- Gone. - That's not at all.

13:12SPEAKER- Good to know.

13:14SPEAKER- Facebook.

13:15SPEAKERFacebook went down for five hours starting on,

13:16SPEAKERwas it Monday morning?

13:18SPEAKER- Yes, it was.

13:19SPEAKERFeels like a month ago. - Feels like an eternity ago.

13:21SPEAKER- It feels like a month ago.

13:24SPEAKER- Brad, why did Facebook go down?

13:25SPEAKER- Oh boy. - What happened?

13:26SPEAKER- Oh boy. - What did they do?

13:27SPEAKER- Geez, man. - Did they get hacked?

13:29SPEAKERDid somebody forget to renew their DNS facebook.com?

13:33SPEAKER- I wasn't expecting you to put the explanation part on me.

13:37SPEAKERIt was their fault and they've copped to that.

13:39SPEAKER- I mean, as you, I think you have to

13:41SPEAKERwhen you're a service that works

13:43SPEAKERfor three or four billion people.

13:45SPEAKER- Well, let's maybe talk about what the experience

13:47SPEAKERof it going down was like first

13:48SPEAKERor what the effect was as we saw it.

13:50SPEAKERLike I woke up on Monday morning

13:53SPEAKERand I don't do this every single day,

13:55SPEAKERbut often I will launch the WhatsApp desktop client

13:58SPEAKERfirst thing in the morning

13:59SPEAKERbecause I have family that is spread around

14:01SPEAKERand that's how we say in touch.

14:03SPEAKERAnd it wouldn't fully launch and it threw,

14:06SPEAKERand this is a side thing,

14:07SPEAKERbut I don't understand why it manifested this way.

14:09SPEAKERThe client wouldn't launch

14:11SPEAKERand threw some kind of ffmpeg.exe error.

14:14SPEAKER- Oh, weird. - And I have no idea

14:15SPEAKERwhy that's how it errored out,

14:17SPEAKERbut it has to, I assume it has to have been

14:19SPEAKERbecause WhatsApp was brought down along with Instagram

14:22SPEAKERand everything else that Facebook runs.

14:24SPEAKER- So my experience was very similar.

14:27SPEAKERI got up and woke up to the internet

14:28SPEAKERand like I had earthquake Twitter

14:32SPEAKER'cause when Facebook goes down,

14:34SPEAKERthe only thing people want to talk about on Twitter

14:35SPEAKERis Facebook going down.

14:37SPEAKER- Yes.

14:38SPEAKER- And that was how I found out that Facebook was down.

14:42SPEAKERIt didn't really impact me.

14:43SPEAKEROtherwise, I use WhatsApp to talk about Ted Lasso

14:46SPEAKERwith some friends.

14:47SPEAKERThat's pretty much it for me.

14:48SPEAKERSo it doesn't come up that much.

14:49SPEAKER- Yeah.

14:50SPEAKER- But yeah, I don't know that we need to talk about it

14:54SPEAKER'cause I think everybody had the experience.

14:56SPEAKERLike the internet was weird for a little while.

14:59SPEAKERIf you don't run an ad blocker

15:01SPEAKERthat blocks the Facebook tracking pixels

15:04SPEAKERand scripts that run on everybody's pages,

15:06SPEAKERthen it probably took your web pages

15:08SPEAKERa long ass time to load

15:10SPEAKERwhile the 10 second DNS timeout landed on everything.

15:16SPEAKERI think that the other social networks,

15:20SPEAKERTwitter and TikTok and the like got slow

15:23SPEAKERbecause so many more people were hitting them than normal

15:25SPEAKERto see what was going on with Facebook.

15:27SPEAKER- Yeah, so Cloudflare beat Facebook to the punch by days

15:32SPEAKERor maybe a day-ish.

15:35SPEAKER- I think Facebook,

15:36SPEAKERwell, we'll talk about what happened to Facebook

15:38SPEAKERand how the hack went

15:39SPEAKERand some of the knock-on effects of what happened.

15:43SPEAKER- Yeah, but--

15:44SPEAKER- But yeah, I don't think the Facebook people

15:46SPEAKERwere in a position to post anything to any blogs

15:48SPEAKERat the time that things were going bad.

15:50SPEAKER- That's fair.

15:51SPEAKERBut Cloudflare put up a long, extensive blog

15:54SPEAKERabout their experience with this outage.

15:55SPEAKERAnd I think they, A, yes,

15:57SPEAKERthey said we saw a massive surge of traffic to,

16:00SPEAKERlet's see, they listed out.

16:02SPEAKER- It's like Twitter.

16:03SPEAKER- Twitter Signal is another one they mentioned

16:04SPEAKERas seeing a big spike in that time.

16:07SPEAKERAnd they pegged the whole outage at being,

16:10SPEAKERI think about five and a half hours, something like that.

16:13SPEAKER- Well, the Facebook portion of it was five and a half hours

16:15SPEAKERand then WhatsApp and Instagram

16:17SPEAKERcame back on a little bit later.

16:18SPEAKER- Yeah, even Facebook in their bigger post-mortem,

16:20SPEAKERthey admitted like, hey, once we fix the main problem,

16:23SPEAKERwe still have to bring things up in stages,

16:24SPEAKERwhich we'll talk about

16:25SPEAKER'cause there's an interesting factoid there.

16:28SPEAKER- Yeah, so what happened was they had a routing,

16:33SPEAKERas often is the case when it's not malicious actors

16:36SPEAKERor like the great Hotmail outage of what, 2002 or whatever,

16:40SPEAKERwhere Microsoft just forgot to renew hotmail.com.

16:44SPEAKERYou remember that one?

16:45SPEAKERThat was good.

16:46SPEAKERI can't remember, there was an internet user

16:48SPEAKERthat was like, I'll pay your domain

16:49SPEAKER'cause you can't handle this Microsoft.

16:51SPEAKERI got you 12 bucks.

16:52SPEAKER- Oh boy.

16:54SPEAKER- But they messed up the routing,

16:59SPEAKERbasically the routing between the DNS.

17:01SPEAKERThey have a, here's, you know how you have a little box

17:03SPEAKERon your network that runs DNS for your network?

17:07SPEAKERFacebook has that too, but it's a data center.

17:09SPEAKER- Oh, it's not all,

17:11SPEAKERit's all going through a single edge router.

17:13SPEAKER- Like their pie hole is also a data center.

17:15SPEAKERThat's the thing to remember.

17:16SPEAKER- Yes.

17:18SPEAKER- They have a data center that does DNS queries

17:21SPEAKERfor the entire network and it's connected.

17:24SPEAKERSo a couple of things we learned as a result of this.

17:26SPEAKEROne is that Facebook and Google,

17:28SPEAKERI assume this is a fang thing probably,

17:32SPEAKERbut Facebook and Google and the other giant tech companies

17:35SPEAKERhave backbone networks that are basically

17:37SPEAKERprivate point-to-point fiber connections

17:39SPEAKERbetween their data centers for high-speed traffic.

17:42SPEAKER- Like there were several eye-opening things I learned

17:44SPEAKERcoming out of this thing and that was one of them

17:46SPEAKERbecause like say 20 years ago,

17:47SPEAKERwhen you were first really getting onto the internet,

17:50SPEAKERbackbone was a generic term you heard for like the thing

17:53SPEAKERthat your ISP and all the other ISPs hook into

17:55SPEAKERthat's run by like some telecom background company

17:59SPEAKERyou've never heard of, right?

18:00SPEAKERLike it was a generic term for like,

18:02SPEAKERthis is the highway that everybody is getting onto

18:04SPEAKERto send things around and like the, I don't know,

18:07SPEAKERthe revelation to me that now these tech giants are so big

18:10SPEAKERthat they have their own internal private backbones

18:12SPEAKERwas kind of weird.

18:13SPEAKER- So I knew that, I understood that already,

18:16SPEAKERbut I didn't, like every once in a while you get to,

18:18SPEAKERsomething happens and you understand the scale

18:20SPEAKERof what these companies,

18:23SPEAKERhow these odd companies operate a little bit better.

18:25SPEAKERAnd the idea that they have a massive private network

18:29SPEAKERisn't that big a deal,

18:30SPEAKERbut the idea that they have a data center

18:31SPEAKERthat's just DNS and routing and stuff is shocking to me.

18:36SPEAKERSo DNS, if you don't know, is the protocol,

18:40SPEAKERit's one of the old internet services

18:42SPEAKERand it basically turns www dot whatever your website,

18:47SPEAKERcontent.town into a series of numbers

18:50SPEAKERthat represent the computer that serves that,

18:54SPEAKERso that website's address on the internet.

18:56SPEAKER- Yes, that's a numeric IP address.

18:58SPEAKER- Yes.

18:59SPEAKER- Or if it's IPv6, it's a god awful mess of--

19:01SPEAKER- Nightmare, hexadecimal, yeah.

19:04SPEAKERSo if you didn't have those,

19:06SPEAKERif you didn't have those DNS servers

19:09SPEAKERin order to go to Google,

19:10SPEAKERwe'd have to know it's 8.8.6.5 or whatever the address is

19:14SPEAKERand the whole internet would have failed

19:15SPEAKERin like 1996, '94 probably.

19:17SPEAKERSo DNS is really important.

19:19SPEAKERThere's another protocol called the BGP,

19:22SPEAKERthe border gateway protocol.

19:24SPEAKERThat was the big thing I learned about coming out of this

19:26SPEAKERthat I did not know about.

19:27SPEAKERAnd I feel like a little fundamental puzzle piece

19:30SPEAKERhas fallen into place in my understanding of the internet.

19:32SPEAKER- Well, so this is a thing that network ops have to know

19:35SPEAKERand normal people don't ever think about.

19:37SPEAKER- Right, right.

19:38SPEAKER- It's firmly--

19:39SPEAKER- Yeah, like I understand DNS very well.

19:41SPEAKERLike I, or not very well, not professionally,

19:43SPEAKERbut as a layman, like I run a caching DNS server

19:46SPEAKERon my router.

19:47SPEAKERLike I have a basic understanding of how that stuff works,

19:49SPEAKERbut--

19:49SPEAKER- Yeah, D's network servers is what it stands for.

19:51SPEAKER(laughing)

19:53SPEAKER- Man, I had just gone into this thinking like,

19:55SPEAKERwell, I'll just call this episode one heck of a week.

19:57SPEAKER(laughing)

19:58SPEAKERBut that's, hang on.

20:00SPEAKERI have to write that down.

20:00SPEAKERThat's, that's.

20:02SPEAKER- So, so--

20:04SPEAKER(laughing)

20:06SPEAKER- Okay, what were you talking about?

20:09SPEAKERHang on.

20:10SPEAKER- BGP connects people, connects all the networks

20:13SPEAKERthat tells the DNS servers how to find each other.

20:15SPEAKER- So I have always, maybe the coolest thing to me

20:18SPEAKERabout the internet is it's utterly decentralized nature.

20:21SPEAKER- Yeah.

20:22SPEAKER- Like I've always thought that was amazing

20:23SPEAKERthat there is no central authority that runs the internet.

20:25SPEAKERThis is, we've talked about the ARPANET before

20:27SPEAKERand we should probably just do that episode at some point.

20:29SPEAKERBut like, I don't know if it's actually true or not,

20:31SPEAKERbut the thing I've always heard

20:33SPEAKERabout why the internet is designed the way it is.

20:35SPEAKER- Yeah, nuclear strikes.

20:36SPEAKER- Yes, they wanted a telecommunication system

20:38SPEAKERthat could survive multiple nuclear strikes

20:40SPEAKERand still continue to function.

20:42SPEAKERAnd that's why the internet has no centralization.

20:44SPEAKER- Well, because if you remember

20:45SPEAKERwhen the ARPANET stuff happened,

20:47SPEAKERlike the way the phone network worked

20:49SPEAKERwas that there were a bunch of people

20:50SPEAKERsitting in a room in New York

20:51SPEAKERand another one in LA and some in Chicago.

20:55SPEAKERAnd they were literally pulling one wire out of a socket

20:59SPEAKERand connecting it into another one

21:00SPEAKERto route a long distance phone call, right?

21:02SPEAKER- Yeah, right.

21:03SPEAKERSo, so if you hit those three spots, then--

21:06SPEAKER- Yeah, like bad things.

21:08SPEAKERBad news for the phone network.

21:09SPEAKERSo, so I was, it's kind of weird.

21:12SPEAKERLike just, it wasn't a week or three ago

21:14SPEAKERthat I was thinking about the internet in the shower.

21:16SPEAKER- As one does.

21:17SPEAKER- Which is where I do all my best

21:19SPEAKERthinking about the internet.

21:20SPEAKERBut like, so, you know, there is no,

21:22SPEAKERthere's nothing in the middle of the internet

21:24SPEAKERrouting everything, right?

21:25SPEAKERIt all happens in a distributed fashion.

21:27SPEAKER- Well, there's no, like ICANN and DNS

21:30SPEAKERis the authoritative, hey, here's what everything's called.

21:36SPEAKER- For assigning things out, yeah.

21:37SPEAKERBut I mean, day-to-day operations

21:39SPEAKERthat you can take huge chunks down

21:40SPEAKERand most of it will still go.

21:41SPEAKERAnyway, the thing that hit me

21:42SPEAKERwhen I was musing in the shower was

21:45SPEAKERlike, I know what DNS does.

21:46SPEAKERI know how packets get from A to B.

21:49SPEAKERI don't know what tells them how to get there.

21:50SPEAKERLike, what is the thing telling packets,

21:52SPEAKERthis is your best route.

21:53SPEAKERThis is like packets aren't smart.

21:55SPEAKERThey can't find their own way there.

21:56SPEAKERLike what is it that's directing this traffic?

21:58SPEAKERAnd that's what BGP does.

22:00SPEAKER- Yeah, see, I always assumed it was like

22:01SPEAKERthe IP addresses just got peeled off like an onion

22:04SPEAKERand you'd go from 192.168.1.1,

22:08SPEAKERwhich is not unaddressable, but anyway,

22:09SPEAKERto 196 to the dot one to the dot one dot one

22:14SPEAKERand just keep going up and then go back down.

22:15SPEAKERBut that doesn't work because then there's 256 machines

22:18SPEAKERon the internet that route all the traffic

22:20SPEAKERand that's gonna break down.

22:21SPEAKER- I think what you're really saying is

22:22SPEAKERI think we assumed it was just magic.

22:24SPEAKER- Yeah, magic.

22:25SPEAKER- Somehow they were finding their way there.

22:26SPEAKER- The elves were doing it, Brad.

22:28SPEAKER- But yeah, the cursory understanding,

22:31SPEAKERlike we haven't gotten too deep into this,

22:33SPEAKERbut my basic understanding of border gateway protocol

22:35SPEAKERis that it essentially stores efficient routes

22:38SPEAKERfrom place to place.

22:39SPEAKERLike it's kind of a network engineers could correct me,

22:42SPEAKERbut it almost seems like a cache.

22:44SPEAKERIt almost seems like a cache of viable routes

22:46SPEAKERfor packets to be like,

22:48SPEAKERhere's your fastest route to get there.

22:50SPEAKERHere's your second fastest route.

22:51SPEAKER- And they talk to each other too.

22:53SPEAKERSo like if you have a good route,

22:55SPEAKERif you and I are both border, you and I are both routers,

22:58SPEAKERthen we'll share notes on what the other good routes

23:00SPEAKERthat we found are.

23:01SPEAKERIt's like Yelp, but for network traffic.

23:03SPEAKER- Yeah, and so I guess the endpoint nodes

23:06SPEAKERin a BGP context are called autonomous systems, ASs.

23:10SPEAKER- And I was afraid to talk about this too specifically.

23:12SPEAKER- Yeah, I mean, I read the Cloudflare explainer on this,

23:16SPEAKERbut I guess an autonomous system is essentially

23:19SPEAKERany like kind of set of networking addresses

23:22SPEAKERthat has a unified routing kind of scheme.

23:25SPEAKERI mean, those, according to them,

23:26SPEAKERlike that's ISPs, corporations, universities,

23:30SPEAKERgovernment agencies, scientific institutions,

23:32SPEAKERlike entities like that,

23:34SPEAKERthat would have kind of self-contained networking going on.

23:38SPEAKERAnyway, it's not new.

23:41SPEAKERIt's, I guess they defined the protocol in the eighties

23:43SPEAKERand it's been in use widely on the internet since '94.

23:46SPEAKERSo it's like always been there.

23:47SPEAKERI just somehow never knew about it.

23:48SPEAKER- Yeah, so Facebook took off,

23:50SPEAKERtook their DNS data center offline

23:54SPEAKERand they took it off more offline than they intended to,

23:56SPEAKERI believe is what their post-mortem post said.

24:01SPEAKERAnd then that had some knock-on effects

24:02SPEAKERthat made it really hard to fix the error.

24:03SPEAKERSo normally if there's a DNS error,

24:05SPEAKERyou just log back into your DNS server

24:06SPEAKERand you update the tables and then hit the button

24:08SPEAKERand wait for the changes to propagate back out.

24:11SPEAKERIn their case, once their DNS servers were offline,

24:13SPEAKERall of their internal tools that let them change DNS routes

24:16SPEAKERand BGP stuff were offline because they're,

24:21SPEAKERthis is not in the post, this is reported anecdotally.

24:23SPEAKERSo I don't know if it's true or not,

24:24SPEAKERbut I wanna believe.

24:26SPEAKERBecause Facebook ties everything into Facebook,

24:29SPEAKERincluding your employee access to buildings

24:32SPEAKERand crypto ability to log in and stuff like that,

24:36SPEAKERthey weren't able to get into the actual buildings,

24:39SPEAKERincluding the data centers.

24:40SPEAKER- That was the word going around mid-Monday.

24:43SPEAKER- I think people also said that there were

24:45SPEAKERsome COVID protocols that meant that

24:46SPEAKERthere aren't actually people on site in places

24:48SPEAKERthat maybe there would normally be people on site.

24:50SPEAKERSo that made it more challenging.

24:51SPEAKERAnd I had heard, I don't know if this is true,

24:54SPEAKERthat there were bolt cutters involved

24:55SPEAKERin getting into either the buildings or the racks.

24:59SPEAKERLike they had to get a physical key for the data center

25:01SPEAKERand then they had to cut into the racks

25:05SPEAKERwith angle grinders or something.

25:06SPEAKER- That's serious.

25:08SPEAKER- To get to the machines they needed to.

25:10SPEAKER- I'm picturing somebody in hazmat suits now

25:12SPEAKERin a data center with like a circular saw,

25:14SPEAKERjust like sawing into a giant rack.

25:16SPEAKER- Look, I wanna see somebody-

25:17SPEAKER- Sparks flying everywhere.

25:18SPEAKER- I wanna see somebody with like a keyboard and mouse

25:20SPEAKERand monitor, like five people standing around this rack,

25:23SPEAKERone person holding a monitor

25:25SPEAKERand two more holding the keyboard and mouse

25:26SPEAKERwhile the person's typing furiously.

25:28SPEAKER- Frantically.

25:29SPEAKER- We gotta get back online, Zuckerberg's gonna eat my liver.

25:31SPEAKER- Yeah, one of the things they did cop to

25:33SPEAKERin Facebook's own post-mortem is that they say essentially

25:36SPEAKERlike they've hardened these systems

25:38SPEAKERfrom illicit access so much that like it makes it harder

25:41SPEAKERfor legitimate access to take place.

25:43SPEAKERLike I'm sure the COVID stuff may have contributed,

25:45SPEAKERbut like I am tempted to take them at their word on that,

25:49SPEAKERthat like they have tried to, they've made it so hard

25:51SPEAKERto access these fundamental systems generally

25:53SPEAKERthat it's harder for even them to get to them

25:55SPEAKERin an emergency.

25:56SPEAKER- Well, and like the data center thing,

25:58SPEAKERif there aren't people sitting in the data centers

26:00SPEAKER24/7 right now, because they're probably,

26:04SPEAKERthey probably mostly run themselves at this point.

26:06SPEAKERThey don't, I mean, they don't obviously run themselves,

26:09SPEAKERbut like the things that humans have to do,

26:11SPEAKERit's not like you need somebody to go in there

26:13SPEAKERand hit the button on the server to restart it

26:15SPEAKERevery once in a while.

26:17SPEAKERLike if there's nobody on the inside to open the door

26:19SPEAKERfrom the inside and your key fob stops working,

26:24SPEAKERhow do you get into a building that's a digital access?

26:26SPEAKERNobody has a physical key anymore.

26:30SPEAKERSo, okay, so the Cloudflare player, well, okay,

26:33SPEAKERso there were two interesting things.

26:34SPEAKEROne is the spin backup.

26:35SPEAKER- Yeah.

26:36SPEAKER- Facebook said that they saw tens of megawatts

26:38SPEAKERat data centers, reduction in power use.

26:41SPEAKER- Yeah.

26:41SPEAKER- Which is terrifying.

26:42SPEAKER- That's, go on, is it terrifying just to know

26:46SPEAKERthat they are using tens of megawatts at all?

26:48SPEAKER- Not in a single facility?

26:49SPEAKER- I mean, I knew that they were using tens of megawatts,

26:51SPEAKERbut also I hadn't really thought about it.

26:53SPEAKERAnd like, what the fuck are we using all this power for?

26:57SPEAKERIt's to basically make some shit so that people can serve ads

27:00SPEAKERand make a bunch of money.

27:01SPEAKER- And also spread racism freely.

27:03SPEAKER- Yeah, Facebook's NFTs, man, that's what I'm saying.

27:05SPEAKERFacebook and crypto are identical.

27:10SPEAKERWhat's the moral imperative for Facebook?

27:12SPEAKER- I have bad news about the state of the world

27:14SPEAKERand where global civilization is going.

27:16SPEAKER- Okay, okay, okay, let's not be bummers today.

27:20SPEAKERThe other thing is the overall, let's see.

27:25SPEAKERWell, okay, good thing from the Cloud Player article.

27:29SPEAKERAnytime something times out and it takes 10 seconds,

27:31SPEAKERthis is why 10 second timeouts, that's the DNS timeout,

27:35SPEAKERwhich I hadn't really put together before.

27:37SPEAKERBut if you try to look for something

27:38SPEAKERand it times out after 10 seconds instead of two or three

27:40SPEAKERor 50 milliseconds or whatever, look at DNS.

27:43SPEAKER- Yeah, that was an interesting line

27:46SPEAKERfrom this Cloudflare blog.

27:47SPEAKERThe 10 second DNS timeout limit

27:49SPEAKERis well-known amongst engineers.

27:50SPEAKER- I was like, right, it is.

27:52SPEAKERI had never thought about it that way before.

27:54SPEAKER- Yeah, also it's always DNS.

27:58SPEAKER- It is often.

27:59SPEAKER- Have you seen, I assume it gets posted so much

28:02SPEAKERin the network channel on our Discord,

28:03SPEAKERthe haiku, the DNS haiku.

28:05SPEAKER- And what's the DNS haiku?

28:06SPEAKER- I don't wanna screw it up, hang on.

28:07SPEAKERIt's pinned in that channel.

28:09SPEAKERThat's how common, it's not DNS.

28:15SPEAKERThere's no way it's DNS.

28:18SPEAKERIt was DNS.

28:21SPEAKERIt's the network engineers' creed.

28:23SPEAKER- I wanna know more about the storm drills

28:25SPEAKERthat Facebook uses and big companies use

28:28SPEAKERfor major system failures.

28:30SPEAKERLike they talked about in the Facebook post a little bit

28:33SPEAKER'cause they knew, then once things were down,

28:37SPEAKERthe experience they've had running these drills

28:39SPEAKERwhere they take things offline intentionally

28:42SPEAKERhave gave them the confidence to know

28:44SPEAKERhow to turn it back on, which is interesting.

28:47SPEAKERAnytime you have systematic hardness built into something

28:50SPEAKERI think is interesting and neat.

28:51SPEAKER- Yeah, so just to expand on that 10 megawatt

28:55SPEAKERor tens of megawatts comment, the full quote

28:59SPEAKERabout why they had to bring things back up in stages

29:01SPEAKERand couldn't just flip a switch and turn everything back on.

29:04SPEAKERIndividual data centers were reporting dips in power usage

29:06SPEAKERin the range of tens of megawatts

29:08SPEAKERand the suddenly reversing such a dip in power consumption

29:11SPEAKERcould put everything from electrical systems

29:12SPEAKERto caches at risk.

29:14SPEAKER- Yeah, just to be clear

29:15SPEAKERfrom reading Madi Kirth Baker's amazing book

29:17SPEAKERWhen the Light's About the Power Grid a few years ago,

29:21SPEAKERand I can't remember what it's called off that way,

29:22SPEAKERI think it's When the Lights Go Out,

29:23SPEAKERbut it's something like that.

29:24SPEAKERAnyway, if you want to turn on something

29:27SPEAKERthat uses tens of megawatts of power at once,

29:29SPEAKERyou have to call the phone company

29:30SPEAKERand have a conversation with them

29:31SPEAKERabout what they're going to spin up to supply that demand

29:34SPEAKERbecause it's not like there's tens of megawatts of slack

29:37SPEAKERin the power grid at any given moment.

29:39SPEAKERThey have to pour more coal in the hoppers

29:42SPEAKERor pull a couple of rods out of the nuclear power plant

29:44SPEAKERso it gets a little steamier to make that happen.

29:47SPEAKER- Yeah.

29:47SPEAKER- Somebody goes out there and spins some windmills.

29:53SPEAKERSo yeah, the idea that A, they could sag out power

29:58SPEAKERon the whole thing, or B,

30:03SPEAKERthey could bring the power grid down

30:05SPEAKERby turning Facebook back on, like terrifying.

30:10SPEAKER- Yeah. - Yeah, 'cause that also means,

30:13SPEAKERjust to be clear, that means that a bad actor at Facebook,

30:16SPEAKERsay if Zuckerberg does,

30:17SPEAKERwe joke about Zuckerberg being Lex Luthor a lot,

30:19SPEAKERbut that means that Zuckerberg has the power.

30:22SPEAKERIt's not inside his fiduciary responsibility

30:24SPEAKERto Facebook shareholders,

30:25SPEAKERbut Zuckerberg does have the power

30:27SPEAKERto bring down the power grid wherever the data centers live.

30:29SPEAKER- If he wants to say fuck the board and just go completely.

30:32SPEAKER- Yeah, if he wants to go rogue

30:34SPEAKERand send us back to the Stone Age,

30:36SPEAKERhe'd stop making money at that point 'cause no ads,

30:38SPEAKERbut something to think about.

30:40SPEAKER- Yes, that is a frightening amount of power to have here.

30:42SPEAKER- With great power comes great responsibility.

30:44SPEAKER- Yeah, it sure was an eye-opening experience

30:48SPEAKERin terms of seeing how much influence one company has

30:50SPEAKERon the entire global telecommunications infrastructure.

30:53SPEAKER- I do love how vanilla, you pulled it out in the notes,

30:57SPEAKERbut during one of these routine maintenance jobs,

30:59SPEAKERa command was issued with the intention

31:01SPEAKERto assess the availability of global backbone capacity,

31:03SPEAKERwhich unintentionally took down all the connections

31:05SPEAKERin our backbone network,

31:06SPEAKEReffectively disconnecting Facebook data centers globally.

31:10SPEAKEROur systems are designed to audit commands like these

31:11SPEAKERto prevent mistakes like this,

31:12SPEAKERbut a bug in the audit tool prevented it

31:14SPEAKERfrom properly stopping the command.

31:16SPEAKERMost expensive bug ever.

31:18SPEAKER- So yeah, like the last thing I wrote in the notes here,

31:20SPEAKERdo you think anyone got fired over this?

31:22SPEAKER- They were losing, I think $37,000 worth of revenue a minute

31:26SPEAKERwhile it was down. - Oh, that got quantified.

31:28SPEAKERBecause that was the other question I wrote after this was,

31:30SPEAKERdid anyone join the million or billion dollar club?

31:32SPEAKERBecause we talked about that before,

31:34SPEAKERthe million dollar club is basically the idea

31:37SPEAKERof causing an error, a stoppage in production in your job

31:41SPEAKERthat loses a million dollars or more in revenue.

31:45SPEAKERSo are you doing the math?

31:48SPEAKER- I'm doing the math right now.

31:49SPEAKERSo it's 1,440 minutes in a day times 35,000.

31:53SPEAKER- I think it was, I don't know.

31:54SPEAKER- It's only $50 million, this is a cheapo.

31:57SPEAKER- Okay.

31:58SPEAKER- I don't know if there's a billion dollar bug

32:00SPEAKERat this point.

32:01SPEAKERI don't think anybody's told us about one of those yet.

32:04SPEAKER- It could be the, well, it's less a bug

32:06SPEAKERand more a consequence of the design,

32:08SPEAKERbut what's the year, the Unix time issue in 20--

32:12SPEAKER- 2035 or whatever.

32:13SPEAKER- I think it's 2038.

32:15SPEAKER- Yeah.

32:17SPEAKERThat's not a problem.

32:18SPEAKERI'll be retired by then, it's fine.

32:20SPEAKER- The year 2038 problem could be that

32:22SPEAKERbecause I think it's way worse than the Y2K bug

32:26SPEAKERis my understanding.

32:27SPEAKER- We probably spent collectively a billion dollars

32:30SPEAKERfixing Y2K stuff would be my guess in 1998, '99.

32:33SPEAKER- Yeah.

32:35SPEAKERI don't think anybody got fired over this.

32:37SPEAKER- Really?

32:38SPEAKER- If somebody got fired,

32:39SPEAKERif there was really a bug in the auditing code,

32:42SPEAKERit would be firing somebody who wrote a bug in software

32:43SPEAKERthat then tens of people probably reviewed and know he caught.

32:46SPEAKER- That was exactly what I was thinking

32:48SPEAKERwas like a bug in software is not just the person

32:50SPEAKERwho wrote the bug's responsibility.

32:52SPEAKERThere are supposed to be a lot of failsafes

32:54SPEAKERto catch stuff like that.

32:55SPEAKER- And like, I want to believe,

32:58SPEAKERand please correct me when I'm wrong,

33:00SPEAKERbut I want to believe that this is a,

33:03SPEAKERlike even an expensive mistake,

33:06SPEAKEReven a $50 million mistake,

33:07SPEAKERyou don't sack people for making that kind of mistake.

33:12SPEAKER'Cause ultimately there's a failure in your infrastructure

33:15SPEAKERand your processes and your auditing code

33:18SPEAKERand all the other things that you do

33:20SPEAKERto prevent these kinds of outages from happening.

33:24SPEAKERHonestly, the biggest takeaway for me on this is A,

33:29SPEAKERprobably a bad idea to run a bunch of scripts

33:31SPEAKERon somebody else's domain on every website on the internet.

33:35SPEAKERLike another argument in favor of blocking Facebook scripts

33:40SPEAKERand tracking pixels.

33:41SPEAKER'Cause that almost brought the whole internet down.

33:44SPEAKERLike not being able to, every webpage on the internet

33:47SPEAKERsuddenly not being able to load code

33:49SPEAKERthat's in the header from Facebook

33:51SPEAKERalmost jacked up the whole thing.

33:53SPEAKER- Yeah, that sucks.

33:54SPEAKERI mean, you can get into the ethical considerations

33:57SPEAKERabout blocking ads,

33:58SPEAKERbut blocking the trackers embedded in damn near every page

34:02SPEAKERout there these days is maybe a little more defensible

34:04SPEAKERin light of something like this.

34:05SPEAKER- I do not think there's any ethical argument

34:07SPEAKERabout not letting company I don't like

34:09SPEAKERrun code on my computer.

34:10SPEAKER- Yeah, yeah.

34:12SPEAKER- The other thing that was interesting to me about this is

34:18SPEAKERlike I knew conceptually how important WhatsApp is

34:21SPEAKERto pretty much everywhere but the United States and China.

34:24SPEAKERBut like WhatsApp has between three and 4 billion users.

34:27SPEAKER- Yeah, man.

34:28SPEAKER- When WhatsApp went down, they essentially lost text

34:30SPEAKERand in many cases voice service.

34:32SPEAKER- I had wondered if that was still the case

34:34SPEAKER'cause I know back when Facebook paid $19 billion

34:36SPEAKERfor WhatsApp, I know that it essentially was text messaging

34:40SPEAKERfor large parts of the world.

34:41SPEAKERBut I didn't know if that was still the case

34:43SPEAKERor if other competitors had bitten into that.

34:45SPEAKER- The voice space has grown in that time

34:47SPEAKERis my understanding.

34:48SPEAKERSo like they've continued to grow.

34:49SPEAKERSo yeah, like it's bad enough that Facebook went down

34:54SPEAKERa thing that a lot of people use to share racist memes

34:57SPEAKERwith each other and I guess pictures of their kids, whatever.

35:02SPEAKERAnd as you pointed out on Twitter,

35:03SPEAKERnobody could eat a meal on Instagram for several hours.

35:06SPEAKERI was really disappointed that tweet didn't go.

35:09SPEAKERI thought that one was really funny.

35:11SPEAKERBut yeah, the text outage for WhatsApp users

35:15SPEAKERis probably the biggest actual,

35:19SPEAKERlike I wouldn't be surprised if people died

35:22SPEAKERbecause they couldn't communicate with each other

35:23SPEAKERin important stuff.

35:24SPEAKER- Oh boy. - Anyway.

35:25SPEAKER- That's grim.

35:26SPEAKER- That's a bummer.

35:27SPEAKERThat's something that people die all the time, right?

35:29SPEAKER- Maybe put less power into the hands

35:31SPEAKERof a single corporation.

35:32SPEAKER- That's probably not a bad idea.

35:33SPEAKER- What if, for example, those businesses

35:37SPEAKERwere separated from each other in a regulatory fashion?

35:41SPEAKER- Huh, you mean like you turned,

35:43SPEAKERlike one company gets the feed

35:45SPEAKERand one company gets the photo sharing

35:46SPEAKERand one company gets the food pictures

35:49SPEAKERand one company gets the baby pictures.

35:51SPEAKER- Hey yeah, speaking of baby, remember the baby bells?

35:54SPEAKER- Yeah.

35:54SPEAKER- And maybe it's time for baby books.

35:57SPEAKER- I mean, the bad thing about baby bells

35:59SPEAKERis haven't they all reconsolidated at this point?

36:01SPEAKER- Yes, have you ever seen that infographic

36:02SPEAKERthat somebody made that has gone around

36:04SPEAKERthat is just a flow chart of like,

36:06SPEAKERhere's how Bell was broken up?

36:08SPEAKER- It's basically the story threads from Mass Effect.

36:10SPEAKERIt like gets wide, it widens,

36:13SPEAKERand then it crushes back down to three endings.

36:15SPEAKER- It's so depressing, man.

36:16SPEAKERIt's like, yeah, here's how they broke up Bell

36:18SPEAKERand here's how all the intermediary is just,

36:20SPEAKERit's like the blob.

36:21SPEAKER- Didn't that happen when Reagan was president?

36:23SPEAKER- Or it's like the T-1000, it's like all the blobs

36:26SPEAKERget split up, but they'll always find their way back

36:28SPEAKERto recombine.

36:30SPEAKERWhen did that happen actually?

36:32SPEAKER- It was the late '70s or early '80s.

36:33SPEAKER- When was Bell broken up?

36:35SPEAKERI cannot imagine it happened under Reagan, it did?

36:39SPEAKER- He might've really hated fun companies.

36:42SPEAKER- Yeah, January 8th, 1982, wow.

36:44SPEAKER- It might've already been in place.

36:46SPEAKER- That's something like that,

36:48SPEAKERit takes years to get rolling, I'm sure.

36:49SPEAKER- Different topic for another day.

36:51SPEAKER- Yeah, well, yeah, also antitrust doesn't exist anymore.

36:54SPEAKER(upbeat music)

36:57SPEAKER- Can we talk about Twitch.tv?

37:01SPEAKER- I mean, if we have to.

37:03SPEAKER- As one of the top 10,000 streamers on Twitch.tv,

37:05SPEAKERI feel personally affected by this one.

37:07SPEAKER- You have a learned perspective on this breach.

37:10SPEAKER- Yeah, the thing I wanna see, I still haven't,

37:12SPEAKERlet me see if I've gotten an email from Twitch

37:16SPEAKERabout this yet, I don't think I have.

37:19SPEAKERSo Twitch, there was a Twitch hack this week,

37:21SPEAKERin case you didn't, you're not on the Twitches.

37:26SPEAKERI've not gotten an email, I've gotten one email from them,

37:28SPEAKERwhich we'll get to in a little bit,

37:29SPEAKERbut somebody leaked what all of Twitch's source code

37:33SPEAKERpretty much including like commit comments and everything,

37:36SPEAKERlike who committed what code to what branch and all that,

37:39SPEAKERback to the early, early days.

37:40SPEAKER- All the way back.

37:41SPEAKER- Like, does that mean the beginning like Twitch.tv

37:45SPEAKERor Justin, like, is there Justin TV code in here, you think?

37:49SPEAKER- That's possible, that's entirely possible.

37:51SPEAKER- They leaked creator payments, like all the payouts,

37:54SPEAKERall the money people made on, from Twitch proper,

37:59SPEAKERfrom August, 2019 to October, 2021, that was great.

38:05SPEAKERThe code for the mobile desktop and console Twitch clients,

38:09SPEAKERa bunch of proprietary internal SDKs and AWS services

38:12SPEAKERthat are only used by Twitch,

38:15SPEAKERall the other crap that Twitch owns,

38:17SPEAKERlike IGDB and CurseForge and all that.

38:20SPEAKERThe Steam competitor that they didn't release,

38:23SPEAKERI thought they released a Steam competitor,

38:24SPEAKERdidn't they have a game sales thing

38:25SPEAKERthat was up for like three months and then disappeared?

38:27SPEAKER- That was Discord.

38:28SPEAKER- No, no, Twitch did one too.

38:30SPEAKER- Are you sure?

38:31SPEAKER- I thought so.

38:32SPEAKER- Discord was the one that very conspicuously

38:33SPEAKERlaunched a game store and then shut it down

38:35SPEAKERafter like less than a year.

38:36SPEAKER- Well, I remember that too, yeah.

38:38SPEAKER- Twitch gives away free games through the sort of,

38:41SPEAKERwhat do they call it, Prime Gaming?

38:43SPEAKERYeah, like so you get free games through that,

38:44SPEAKERI think that's all they've done.

38:46SPEAKER- Okay, I thought there was a way to buy games

38:47SPEAKERon Twitch for a little bit.

38:48SPEAKER- I don't think so.

38:50SPEAKERVapor, did you mention that it was code named Vapor?

38:53SPEAKER- I mean look, I think the people who were working on it

38:56SPEAKERknew exactly how it was gonna end up.

38:57SPEAKER- Yeah.

38:58SPEAKER- That look, so I'm thinking about the right way

39:02SPEAKERto say this that I won't get people in trouble.

39:04SPEAKERI feel like from talking to people who worked at Amazon

39:07SPEAKERin the past that a lot of things come down from on high

39:10SPEAKERand are like, hey, we should go try to compete with Steam.

39:15SPEAKERAnd then all the people that understand what Steam does

39:18SPEAKERand how Steam works and how entrenched Steam is are like,

39:20SPEAKERthis is okay, well, we're gonna need like $5 billion.

39:24SPEAKERAnd they're like, well, here's 30 million, go to it.

39:26SPEAKERYou get 10 people for two years.

39:29SPEAKER- If you're telling me that Amazon is a company

39:31SPEAKERthat functions on Mercurial Fiat,

39:34SPEAKERsome executive has an idea and just waves their hands around

39:37SPEAKERand then it creates a whole new division of the company,

39:39SPEAKERI fully believe that.

39:40SPEAKER- I'd say there's probably data behind it too.

39:42SPEAKERThey're like, look, we have data,

39:44SPEAKERSteam is making a lot of money.

39:45SPEAKERLook at all this money they're making.

39:46SPEAKERLook at all these knives Gabe has.

39:48SPEAKER- That's money that we could be making.

39:49SPEAKERThat's another trip to space.

39:51SPEAKER- Yes, we could take William Shatner to space twice now.

39:58SPEAKERAnyway, and the red teaming tools that they used internally

40:03SPEAKERto have staff pretend to be hackers

40:05SPEAKERtrying to maliciously attack Twitch services.

40:09SPEAKER- Man, Facebook was like somewhat forthcoming,

40:13SPEAKERI feel like about their errors.

40:15SPEAKER- I don't think Twitch knows what the problem is yet.

40:18SPEAKER- This Twitch statement.

40:19SPEAKERWe have learned that some data was exposed to the internet

40:23SPEAKERdue to an error in a Twitch server configuration change.

40:27SPEAKERThat's all they said.

40:29SPEAKER- Wow.

40:29SPEAKER- That was the entirety of their statement around this leak.

40:32SPEAKER- So a server configuration change.

40:34SPEAKERSee now, like there's a good way to disclose a hack

40:37SPEAKERand there's a bad way to disclose a hack.

40:38SPEAKERThe good way is to figure out what the problem was

40:40SPEAKERand then fix the hole and then say,

40:43SPEAKERokay, here's what we realized.

40:44SPEAKERWe had a vulnerability in this.

40:45SPEAKERWe had this vulnerability in this service,

40:48SPEAKERwhich gave a malicious entity access to our internal tools.

40:51SPEAKERAnd then because instead of doing something

40:52SPEAKERlike having passwords on everything that are different,

40:55SPEAKERwe had fucked up the passwords

40:56SPEAKERand they were able to get literally everything

40:58SPEAKERon our intranet, Twitch is just saying,

41:00SPEAKERhey, we had something went wrong

41:02SPEAKERand now we're investigating this.

41:06SPEAKERThey didn't know the statement doesn't say

41:07SPEAKERwe've resolved the problem, the hole is plugged.

41:11SPEAKER- Yes.

41:12SPEAKER- The statement just says we're working

41:14SPEAKERwith urgency to investigate the incident.

41:16SPEAKERAs a note, the people who,

41:18SPEAKERas one of the people whose personal information was leaked,

41:21SPEAKERthey have not notified me via email

41:23SPEAKERthat my personal information was leaked.

41:25SPEAKERThey sent me a note two days later, I think,

41:30SPEAKERthat said, hey, we reset all the stream keys

41:34SPEAKERout of an abundance of caution.

41:36SPEAKERCaution for what?

41:37SPEAKERNo idea.

41:38SPEAKERIf you only look at email, look,

41:40SPEAKERrealistically, if you're affected by this leak

41:42SPEAKERand you're a Twitch streamer

41:43SPEAKERand you've streamed between now and when the leak happened,

41:45SPEAKERyou probably have been told by your chat

41:47SPEAKERthat your shit is out there.

41:48SPEAKER- Yeah.

41:49SPEAKER- It was a subject of much conversation

41:51SPEAKERthis week on my streams.

41:52SPEAKER- I bet.

41:54SPEAKER- I got to find out how well I was monetizing

41:56SPEAKERagainst literally everyone I've ever met,

41:57SPEAKERso that's good to know.

42:01SPEAKERBut yeah, it was like, I don't know, it's weird.

42:05SPEAKERIt's weird to have, on one hand,

42:09SPEAKERI feel bad for people who do this for a living.

42:12SPEAKERDude, who are Twitch streamers.

42:15SPEAKERJust to be clear, I am a shade tree for funsies

42:18SPEAKERTwitch streamer who was lucky enough to make money.

42:21SPEAKERLike I paid for my health insurance for a few years

42:23SPEAKERwhen food was going and Twitch was a pretty important chunk

42:29SPEAKERof revenue for 2020 when things were bad.

42:31SPEAKER- Yeah.

42:34SPEAKER- The folks who are in,

42:41SPEAKERso for me, let me think the right way to say this,

42:43SPEAKERfor me, the Twitch leak is a little bit of a relief

42:47SPEAKER'cause it means I can actually talk about the fact

42:48SPEAKERthat I'm probably making about $8 an hour

42:51SPEAKERwhen I stream on Twitch, right?

42:53SPEAKER- Sure.

42:54SPEAKER- I don't do this for money.

42:55SPEAKERI do it because I enjoy it.

42:56SPEAKERIt gives me an excuse to play games.

42:58SPEAKERI get to spend that money on computer hardware

43:01SPEAKERand streaming shit, which is fun for me.

43:04SPEAKERAnd I can write off my video game

43:08SPEAKERand computer purchases as a result.

43:12SPEAKERIf you are a creator that is in the indeterminate space

43:16SPEAKERin the, I'd like to think of it as the content creator

43:18SPEAKERblack hole where you're making enough money

43:20SPEAKERthat you can see this as a real career,

43:23SPEAKERbut you're not making enough money to actually have it

43:25SPEAKERsupport you and or your family.

43:27SPEAKER- Yeah.

43:28SPEAKER- It's a real, this is a bad thing.

43:32SPEAKERThis does not help you.

43:34SPEAKERAnd it was lucky enough for me that it was really clear

43:38SPEAKERI was never going to support my family on Twitch earnings.

43:40SPEAKER- Yes, sure.

43:42SPEAKERYeah, the pie chart that's been floating around

43:44SPEAKERoff the back of this is pretty eye-opening.

43:45SPEAKERI don't remember the exact numbers,

43:46SPEAKERbut it is very much a situation where like the top 10%

43:50SPEAKERof streamers are making 90% of the money.

43:53SPEAKER- Well, but it's a long,

43:55SPEAKERit is a classic long tail business, right?

43:57SPEAKERSo those top 10% of people are making,

44:01SPEAKERare probably making 50% of the money would be my guess.

44:03SPEAKER'Cause we're only seeing the top 10,000.

44:06SPEAKERAnd the tail of people who are making $600 a month

44:09SPEAKERis going to be enormous.

44:10SPEAKERIt's going to be another 80 or 90,000 people probably.

44:12SPEAKER- Sure, sure.

44:13SPEAKER- 'Cause there are like 200,000 Twitch affiliates

44:16SPEAKERand partners or some, it's some massive number of people.

44:19SPEAKERSo, and okay, there's other things.

44:24SPEAKERFor me, it's a relief 'cause I can talk about the money

44:26SPEAKERand I can say, hey, look, this is not,

44:28SPEAKERI'm not getting rich playing games on Twitch.

44:30SPEAKERI'm doing this for fun.

44:31SPEAKER- Very, a vanishingly small number of people are.

44:34SPEAKER- Yeah, I think PC Gamer did the math

44:37SPEAKERand they said you had to be in the top 3000 streamers-ish

44:40SPEAKERto be making the median US income, which is $67,000.

44:44SPEAKER- Okay.

44:46SPEAKER- I was in the bottom third or the top two thirds,

44:49SPEAKERlike right on the edge.

44:50SPEAKERAnd I'm making half that.

44:51SPEAKERI was made half that in that same time period.

44:54SPEAKERSo like it is not, it's good because you can look at this

45:00SPEAKERand people say, I mean, sure you get this a lot too,

45:03SPEAKERbut people are like, hey, I want to get into streaming.

45:05SPEAKERWhat should I buy?

45:06SPEAKERAnd I'm like, literally buy nothing.

45:09SPEAKERLike use your headset microphone and a webcam

45:12SPEAKERand maybe get a $20 light from Amazon

45:14SPEAKERif you want to look a little bit better,

45:16SPEAKERbut start out and do it because it's fun.

45:19SPEAKERAnd because you enjoy doing this

45:21SPEAKERand you want to like hang out with people on the internet.

45:23SPEAKERAnd then if you start making money,

45:24SPEAKERspend the first money you get back on this on hardware,

45:28SPEAKERbut don't like, go out, don't go out and spend $3,000

45:31SPEAKERon a Shure SM7 and a fucking $500 mirrorless camera

45:36SPEAKERand capture guards and all that stuff

45:38SPEAKERuntil you know if you like doing this

45:40SPEAKERand you can actually make a little bit of money on it.

45:42SPEAKER- Yeah, there was a ton of, not surprisingly,

45:44SPEAKERa ton of discussion about this on our Discord

45:46SPEAKERand the analogy that I saw that kind of made sense to me

45:49SPEAKERis they've likened streaming and making a shitload of money

45:52SPEAKERto making it in professional sports or as an actor.

45:54SPEAKER- It's very similar, yeah.

45:56SPEAKER- It's very similar in that like tons of people

45:58SPEAKERare trying to do it, but only a very tiny number

46:00SPEAKERwill ever reach that top echelon.

46:02SPEAKER- Well, and even the people who are doing really well,

46:04SPEAKERlike the people that are in the top couple hundred,

46:07SPEAKERlike a lot of them are tied to a specific game.

46:10SPEAKERLike if you were a PUBG streamer in 2017

46:12SPEAKERand you were medium popular,

46:13SPEAKERyou'd have a couple of thousand people watching you

46:15SPEAKERat any given moment.

46:16SPEAKERAnd then PUBG kind of started to wane

46:18SPEAKERand people moved over to Fortnite and Apex and other games

46:21SPEAKERand those audiences declined.

46:23SPEAKERSo like if you are playing whatever the hot thing is

46:27SPEAKERat any given moment, you're, if you're smart,

46:32SPEAKERyou're working, you're grinding as hard as you can

46:34SPEAKERduring that time to make as much money as you can,

46:37SPEAKERbecause when that game starts to fade,

46:38SPEAKERunless you can successfully transition to another game,

46:41SPEAKERwhich is kind of rare,

46:42SPEAKERyou're going to see massively reduced earnings.

46:45SPEAKERLike when Ninja stopped playing Fortnite,

46:48SPEAKERNinja's revenue went way down.

46:50SPEAKER- He was nowhere near as high on that list

46:51SPEAKERas I expected him to be.

46:53SPEAKER- Well, I think when he came back from Mixer.

46:54SPEAKER- Oh, there was also that.

46:55SPEAKER- Yeah, there was stuff around that.

46:57SPEAKER- He probably had to rebuild a ton of audience

46:59SPEAKERafter he had been off the platform for a while.

47:02SPEAKER- Yeah, so, but like it's nice

47:04SPEAKERto be able to talk about the money.

47:05SPEAKERI think some people are not, some people are like,

47:08SPEAKERI went into a bunch of channels over the last few days

47:10SPEAKERto see how people are reacting.

47:12SPEAKERSome people are vehemently not talking about the money.

47:14SPEAKERSome people are being really open.

47:16SPEAKERLike there's the Twitch partner agreement basically says,

47:19SPEAKER"Hey, you can't talk about how much we pay you ever,"

47:22SPEAKERwhich is all out the window now, it seems like.

47:24SPEAKER- A lot of things about Twitch are out the window now.

47:27SPEAKERLike I wonder if any kind of like vulnerabilities

47:30SPEAKERwill be discovered with that code base

47:32SPEAKERor if there'll be any downstream effects

47:34SPEAKERof having all that exposed.

47:36SPEAKER- I would guess that the Twitch engineering team

47:38SPEAKERhas had a really busy week and it's not stopped now.

47:41SPEAKER- Yeah.

47:44SPEAKER- I was just gonna say, like the other thing to remember,

47:48SPEAKERespecially about the people on the top thousand, top 2000,

47:50SPEAKEReven really everybody on that top 10,000 list

47:55SPEAKERshould be able to be making money from sponsorships

47:58SPEAKERand stuff like that as well, if they're hustling.

48:00SPEAKERSo like the money that this thing showed

48:04SPEAKERis not the entirety of income, especially at the high end,

48:08SPEAKERbut also especially at the low end.

48:09SPEAKERLike the nano and micro influencer scale folks,

48:13SPEAKERI can't believe I'm saying this,

48:14SPEAKERbut like the people with a few thousand followers

48:16SPEAKERthat are really heavily engaged

48:18SPEAKERhave or should be making pretty good money

48:22SPEAKERif they're doing that, running that business

48:24SPEAKERin a smart and kind of ethical way.

48:27SPEAKERBecause if you have good enough taste

48:30SPEAKERto build that kind of audience, then even a small one,

48:33SPEAKERthen you endorsing a product should be worth something.

48:38SPEAKER- Yeah.

48:44SPEAKER- It's an interesting place to be as a business, I guess.

48:46SPEAKER- I heard that a few months ago from somebody I know

48:49SPEAKERwho works in essentially in like high end alcohol production

48:52SPEAKERand like distilling and distribution and stuff.

48:55SPEAKERAnd they were saying, they were talking to me about it

48:56SPEAKERbecause like I like whiskey.

48:59SPEAKER- Yeah.

49:00SPEAKER- And they were saying like, essentially like,

49:03SPEAKERyou know, working with these big influencers

49:05SPEAKERdoes not have the value that it used to

49:06SPEAKERbecause like they don't, you know,

49:07SPEAKERthey're just literally just shilling the message.

49:09SPEAKERThey don't care.

49:11SPEAKERLike these companies are starting to see way more value

49:13SPEAKERin people with smaller audiences,

49:14SPEAKERbut actually like the product

49:16SPEAKERand like are knowledgeable about the subject

49:18SPEAKERand can talk about it from a place of authenticity.

49:22SPEAKER- Well, it's the thing we, I mean, we don't take ads here,

49:25SPEAKERbut if we did, it would be like my,

49:28SPEAKERI like, I really like Gruber's model for Daring Fireball,

49:32SPEAKERright, and his podcasts.

49:33SPEAKERHe says, hey, there's 52 slots a year,

49:36SPEAKERone for each week of the year on his podcast

49:39SPEAKERand on the website.

49:40SPEAKERAnd it has to be something I like.

49:43SPEAKERBe like, you have to send, I have to be able to use it.

49:45SPEAKERAnd it has to be something that I'm going to endorse

49:47SPEAKER'cause I'm not gonna take ad money

49:48SPEAKERfrom something that sucks.

49:49SPEAKERSo, you know, you don't see as many mattress ads

49:52SPEAKERand mail enhancement pills and stuff like that.

49:56SPEAKERYou just see things that are actually products,

49:58SPEAKERlike I would endorse Nanotape.

50:00SPEAKERIf the Nanotape people want to give us money for ads,

50:02SPEAKERI would, if they send it to me and it's good,

50:05SPEAKERI would 100% put Nanotape ads on the podcast

50:08SPEAKERfor people who aren't paying us.

50:09SPEAKER- There's no brand name Nanotape, unfortunately.

50:11SPEAKERThere are 8,000 companies you've never heard of

50:13SPEAKERselling Nanotape and they're all, you know.

50:16SPEAKER- But I'm just saying as an example.

50:18SPEAKER- If big Nanotape ever arises, we're here.

50:21SPEAKER- For me, somebody who's a new streamer

50:24SPEAKERwho has a really engaged 500 person, like a small audience

50:28SPEAKERand the people are like, that's their number one streamer.

50:32SPEAKERI would much rather engage with them than I would with,

50:36SPEAKERyou know, like I like Shroud.

50:38SPEAKERLike Shroud seems like an okay guy,

50:40SPEAKERbut his audience is massive and broad

50:44SPEAKERand kind of disengaged.

50:46SPEAKER- I was gonna say, I bet a lot of those ads

50:48SPEAKERjust kind of roll right off their backs, right?

50:49SPEAKER- Yeah, they're used to seeing a bunch of ads.

50:51SPEAKERI'd much rather be the first person that advertises

50:53SPEAKERwith a new streamer that helps them get off the ground

50:56SPEAKERthan like, you know, Shroud's 10 AM Thursday slot.

51:01SPEAKERSo anyway, Twitch is, it's weird to be in one of these leaks.

51:05SPEAKERThat's all I'm gonna say. - Yeah, I'm sure it is.

51:06SPEAKERMy condolences.

51:08SPEAKER- Yeah, it's fine.

51:10SPEAKER- Yeah, I'll be curious to see if we ever find out more

51:13SPEAKERabout how this happened.

51:15SPEAKERI guess an error in a Twitch server configuration

51:18SPEAKERis at least specific enough to kind of have a sum picture of,

51:22SPEAKERlike when I first saw this, it made me think back

51:24SPEAKERto that massive ubiquity breach

51:26SPEAKERfrom the beginning of the year.

51:27SPEAKER- Yeah. - Where, I mean,

51:28SPEAKERthey were incredibly negligent about informing anyone,

51:31SPEAKERlet alone, you know, even their shareholders,

51:32SPEAKERlet alone their customers, about what happened.

51:34SPEAKER- Yeah. - With the reporting,

51:36SPEAKERthe reporting coming out, and this was from Krebs,

51:38SPEAKERwho was, Brian Krebs, who was a huge, very well respected-

51:41SPEAKER- Krebs on security, yeah. - Security reporter

51:43SPEAKERand researcher.

51:45SPEAKERFrom that story, one of his sources said,

51:50SPEAKER"The attackers had access to privileged credentials

51:52SPEAKER"that were previously stored in the last pass account

51:54SPEAKER"of a ubiquity IT employee."

51:56SPEAKER- Jesus Christ.

51:57SPEAKER- "And gained root administrator access

51:59SPEAKER"to all ubiquity AWS accounts."

52:01SPEAKER- That sounds great.

52:02SPEAKER- But that is just straight up human error.

52:03SPEAKERThat's just like negligence.

52:05SPEAKERThat's practically somebody putting their password

52:07SPEAKERin lubes.txt on their desktop.

52:09SPEAKER- So-

52:10SPEAKER- Not quite that.

52:11SPEAKER- Brad, are your passwords in lubes.txt?

52:13SPEAKER- No, they are not. - Good.

52:14SPEAKER- But I'm just saying, I'm just saying that is an example

52:15SPEAKERof just one person probably did something-

52:19SPEAKER- Bad. - Less secure

52:21SPEAKERthan they should have,

52:22SPEAKERand it led to a whole bunch of trouble.

52:24SPEAKER- Well, so here's the thing.

52:29SPEAKERHere's the thing that is interesting to me

52:32SPEAKERabout this whole, okay, so we asked in the Facebook thing,

52:36SPEAKERdid somebody get fired because of this?

52:38SPEAKERThere was a Reddit,

52:39SPEAKERthere were a couple of Reddit threads, actually,

52:40SPEAKERbut the one that I spent the most time in

52:42SPEAKERwas a bunch of people who purported

52:44SPEAKERto be ex-Twitch employees and ex-Amazon employees

52:48SPEAKERwho explicitly said there is not a culture of security

52:50SPEAKERand privacy at Twitch, right?

52:52SPEAKERLike there were multiple people saying,

52:56SPEAKER"Yeah, Twitch has never given a shit about this.

52:59SPEAKER"It's no surprise.

52:59SPEAKER"I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet."

53:01SPEAKER- Yeah.

53:02SPEAKER- Amazon, on the other hand, has always,

53:04SPEAKERlike of all the things that Amazon does badly,

53:07SPEAKERthey're pretty good about customer privacy, right?

53:09SPEAKERLike you don't often see data breaches from Amazon

53:12SPEAKERbecause they've,

53:14SPEAKERand they've been going at this for long enough

53:16SPEAKERthat if they didn't take,

53:17SPEAKERif they weren't careful about that stuff,

53:19SPEAKERwe would have had more leaks from them.

53:20SPEAKER- Yeah, that was interesting.

53:21SPEAKERThat was an interesting point in that Verge story

53:23SPEAKERabout this subject is that Twitch,

53:26SPEAKERit sounds like Twitch has maintained a fair amount

53:27SPEAKERof autonomy on its own culture, its original culture,

53:30SPEAKEReven after the buyout,

53:31SPEAKERbecause in terms of the technology stack that they employ

53:34SPEAKERand the services they are willing to adopt

53:36SPEAKERwell before Amazon itself has vetted them and approved them.

53:40SPEAKER- Yeah, so I wonder if this is gonna be a day

53:42SPEAKERof reckoning internally at Twitch around that stuff.

53:48SPEAKERYeah, I hope we see more information

53:50SPEAKERabout what's happened here.

53:52SPEAKERI would describe this A,

53:55SPEAKERI'm shocked that there hasn't been an email

53:56SPEAKERto all affected parties yet.

53:58SPEAKERB,

54:03SPEAKERI hope that there's more information.

54:05SPEAKERAnd C, just for full disclosure,

54:06SPEAKERI didn't actually look up my earnings

54:08SPEAKERto see if the numbers are accurate.

54:11SPEAKERI intentionally did not want to know that, so.

54:13SPEAKER- Okay, good to know.

54:14SPEAKER- Yeah.

54:16SPEAKER- Yeah, that was a weird one too.

54:17SPEAKERLike I don't want to get too far off on this tangent,

54:19SPEAKERbut like watching how this unfolded on social media.

54:23SPEAKER- Yeah.

54:24SPEAKER- I definitely had a little moment of reservation

54:26SPEAKERabout how the way information spreads about various subjects

54:29SPEAKERthat is just being posted by people

54:31SPEAKERwho are themselves very error prone

54:34SPEAKERand how much bad--

54:35SPEAKER- Same thing happened with Facebook too, for God's word.

54:37SPEAKER- Like how fast bad misinformation can propagate.

54:40SPEAKERLike the first person I saw who got out there

54:41SPEAKERand posted a list of the earnings of the top 20 or whatever,

54:45SPEAKERlike that information was calculated.

54:47SPEAKERIt was not just embedded in the leak.

54:48SPEAKERPeople had to do some math.

54:50SPEAKER- Yeah, you had to do a little bit of math.

54:51SPEAKER- And they had done the math incredibly incorrectly,

54:53SPEAKERlike by an order of magnitude.

54:55SPEAKER- Yeah.

54:55SPEAKER- And so they were, the first list that was going around

54:57SPEAKERwas showing like the top couple streamers

54:59SPEAKERwere making 30, $40 million in that two year period.

55:02SPEAKERAnd that turned out to be off by a lot,

55:05SPEAKERbut that spread very far before anybody realized it,

55:08SPEAKERyou know, like things like that, you know,

55:10SPEAKERit's the whole Reddit detective thing

55:13SPEAKERof like trying to peg the Boston bombers

55:15SPEAKERand coming up with the wrong person.

55:16SPEAKER- Or the zodiac or whatever, yeah.

55:18SPEAKER- Yeah, like it's a little unsettling

55:21SPEAKERto see the way that information propagates

55:22SPEAKERabout something like this these days, but.

55:24SPEAKER- I also talked to a friend who's,

55:29SPEAKERa couple of friends who are mods at fairly big channels.

55:34SPEAKERAnd their reaction was really interesting

55:36SPEAKER'cause most of them were like,

55:38SPEAKERyeah, the people who are regulars

55:39SPEAKERcould look at the number of subs

55:40SPEAKER'cause that's a public-ish number.

55:42SPEAKERLike you can find that.

55:43SPEAKERAnd they can multiply that by a number

55:45SPEAKERand they know kind of what the ballpark is for these people.

55:47SPEAKERAnd they're like, they're happy to support them

55:49SPEAKERand let them keep doing this thing that they love

55:51SPEAKERbecause they like spending,

55:52SPEAKERlike it's like, you know,

55:55SPEAKERwhether it's a Twitch Prime or five bucks a month

55:57SPEAKERor whatever, it's nice to have a place to hang out

55:59SPEAKERon the internet.

56:00SPEAKERI mean, we all, like, it's what we do in our Discord.

56:02SPEAKERIt's what every, like, it's just differences of scale.

56:06SPEAKERAnd like, it's nice having a comfortable familiar voice

56:09SPEAKERin your ears that you don't have ads while you listen to.

56:11SPEAKERRight, so.

56:12SPEAKER- Yeah.

56:13SPEAKER(upbeat music)

56:15SPEAKER- Let's talk about Windows 11.

56:17SPEAKER- Okay, Windows 11 came out by the way, post scripts.

56:20SPEAKER- October 5th, the great October release continues.

56:25SPEAKERThis is when Windows has usually come out, it seems.

56:27SPEAKERAugust, October is the window.

56:28SPEAKERAnd I was sitting there on Monday,

56:33SPEAKERI spent all day and my computer,

56:34SPEAKERmy Windows graphics driver kept crashing.

56:38SPEAKERAnd I was like, man, it's time for me to reinstall Windows.

56:41SPEAKER- Hang on, what does a graphics driver crash look like?

56:43SPEAKER- The screen turns black for about 10 seconds

56:44SPEAKERand then turns back on.

56:46SPEAKER- Yuck, and do you get any kind of message?

56:48SPEAKER- You, in the event viewer, yeah.

56:50SPEAKERIt says, hey, you're ngkernel.nbkernel.whatever bombed out.

56:56SPEAKERAnd like, just to be clear,

56:57SPEAKERthis is a five year old installed Windows,

56:59SPEAKERso it was getting kind of crufty.

57:01SPEAKER- I'm only like a two and change

57:03SPEAKERand I'm feeling the itch badly at this point.

57:05SPEAKER- Yeah, it wasn't great.

57:07SPEAKERThere was never a good time to reinstall Windows

57:09SPEAKERlike we said during the Windows reinstall episode

57:11SPEAKERearlier this year, but I made it.

57:13SPEAKERI made it talk to October 4th.

57:14SPEAKERI was like, I'm gonna download the ISO

57:15SPEAKERand install it right now.

57:18SPEAKERSo I backed everything up.

57:19SPEAKERI pulled the other SSD and I was gonna just not,

57:22SPEAKERI was gonna put on a secondary SATA SSD

57:24SPEAKERand I was like, you know what, fuck it,

57:25SPEAKERI don't have to do this twice.

57:26SPEAKERSo I backed up the main SSD to my hard drive

57:30SPEAKERthat took like six hours and then wiped it

57:33SPEAKERand put everything on the main SSD impulsively

57:36SPEAKERat eight o'clock at night.

57:38SPEAKERAnd by 3 a.m. in the morning,

57:39SPEAKERI had more or less working Windows installed

57:41SPEAKERwith all my stuff installed.

57:42SPEAKER- This was a fresh install or you installed

57:45SPEAKERon an upgrade and say, okay, good.

57:46SPEAKER- Clean, brand new, everything's fresh.

57:48SPEAKER- Good man.

57:53SPEAKER- Yeah, it's Windows.

57:55SPEAKER- It's Windows, but it's round now.

57:57SPEAKERIt's very soft and rounded.

57:59SPEAKER- It is, I didn't run benchmarks.

58:00SPEAKERI didn't run before and after benchmarks.

58:02SPEAKERThat stuff's out there.

58:03SPEAKERI didn't, because my install was busted,

58:05SPEAKERI didn't think it was worth spending the effort

58:08SPEAKERon a bad Windows 10 install versus a good Windows 11 install.

58:11SPEAKER- I think it's competitive is my understanding

58:13SPEAKERin terms of performance, I think it's pretty similar.

58:15SPEAKER- It feels really fast.

58:17SPEAKERLike the UI feels like everything window movement feels fast.

58:22SPEAKEREven the stuff that felt kind of chunky on Windows 10,

58:24SPEAKERlike I have a 4k monitor that's running

58:27SPEAKERat 150% resolution scale and a 10 AP monitor.

58:32SPEAKERIt's running at 100% resolution scale

58:34SPEAKERand usually moving those Windows back and forth

58:36SPEAKERbetween those had a little bit of a chunk

58:39SPEAKERas it would go from the big size to the small size.

58:42SPEAKERAnd it just feels super smooth now, so that's nice.

58:44SPEAKER- That's good, 'cause UI scaling is something

58:45SPEAKERthat Windows has been terrible at for a while.

58:47SPEAKER- I still don't think it's as good as OS 10,

58:49SPEAKERbut also I have never used an OS 10 installed

58:51SPEAKERwith multiple resolution scales.

58:53SPEAKERSo I don't know how it handles it.

58:56SPEAKERThe install process was fine.

59:00SPEAKERMy computer already had TPM on,

59:01SPEAKERso it was pretty much ready to go.

59:03SPEAKERThe official Microsoft tool that tells you

59:05SPEAKERif your PC is set up right is back online,

59:07SPEAKERso you can just download that.

59:08SPEAKERBut there's also some third-party ones on GitHub,

59:11SPEAKERif you wanna grab those.

59:13SPEAKERThe HDR and non HDR shifting back and forth between

59:17SPEAKERseems to work reasonably well.

59:18SPEAKER- Is that a toggle?

59:19SPEAKERIs that something you trigger or?

59:21SPEAKER- So there's a toggle in the Windows display property,

59:26SPEAKERlike the place you change resolution

59:28SPEAKERand orientation of your monitors and stuff like that.

59:32SPEAKER- Will it, sorry, will it HDR your entire desktop,

59:35SPEAKERthe entire Windows 11 experience,

59:37SPEAKERit's not just a games thing?

59:38SPEAKER- It's just games and video.

59:40SPEAKER- Oh, it is, okay.

59:41SPEAKER- So when you flip HDR on, at least on the monitor,

59:44SPEAKERI only have one HDR monitor, the other one is not.

59:46SPEAKERWhen I flip it on, everything gets a little black,

59:48SPEAKERlike the black levels get a little blacker,

59:51SPEAKEReven on like the desktop.

59:53SPEAKERI don't know why that is, magic.

59:56SPEAKER- Magic, auto.

59:57SPEAKER- But like I played some Far Cry the other night

59:59SPEAKER'cause it was what I had installed that supports HDR

1:00:02SPEAKERand it was...

1:00:05SPEAKER- Bright and dark.

1:00:06SPEAKER- It gets real bright and dark now, yeah,

1:00:07SPEAKERlike when I look at the sun, the whole screen blows out,

1:00:09SPEAKERso that's kind of cool.

1:00:10SPEAKER- Okay.

1:00:15SPEAKER- It's still, so I like you,

1:00:19SPEAKERI feel like HDR is of limited value to me

1:00:21SPEAKERbecause I don't wanna have to turn it on and off

1:00:23SPEAKERevery time I start streaming 'cause you kind of do.

1:00:25SPEAKER- Yeah, yes, we ran into that some last year

1:00:28SPEAKERwhen the new consoles came out,

1:00:30SPEAKERespecially the PS5 has a habit

1:00:31SPEAKERof when you change connections, HDMI connections,

1:00:33SPEAKERit'll reset all its settings

1:00:34SPEAKERand one of those is turning HDR back on.

1:00:37SPEAKERSo this didn't happen to me,

1:00:39SPEAKERbut I know in several cases we lost recordings

1:00:41SPEAKERbecause the person did not realize

1:00:43SPEAKERthat HDR had gotten back turned back on.

1:00:45SPEAKER- Oh man, I think it was washed out.

1:00:47SPEAKER- That makes the recording basically unusable.

1:00:49SPEAKER- Oh, that sucks.

1:00:51SPEAKERYou could just tone map that video back down.

1:00:53SPEAKERIt turns out that's a completely non-trivial

1:00:55SPEAKERand incredibly time-consuming and high-skill thing to do.

1:00:57SPEAKER- I tried, several months ago,

1:00:59SPEAKERI tried my hand at doing some manual tone mapping

1:01:02SPEAKERof a 4K Blu-ray rip and man, it's hard.

1:01:05SPEAKER- Yeah, I went through this whole thing three years ago

1:01:08SPEAKERwith Blu-ray rips, so I was like,

1:01:09SPEAKERoh, I'll just convert this 4K rip I made down to 1080p.

1:01:12SPEAKERNope, just easier to rip in 1080p version, it turns out.

1:01:14SPEAKER- It looks like shit, it turns out.

1:01:16SPEAKERPlex has auto-tone mapping now.

1:01:18SPEAKER- I haven't tried it. - It took a long time

1:01:19SPEAKERand it used to be endpoints dependent.

1:01:22SPEAKERSo you couldn't do it on Apple TV,

1:01:24SPEAKERbut you could on Roku or whatever.

1:01:26SPEAKER- I believe that.

1:01:27SPEAKERI haven't tried it, I don't know how well it works.

1:01:29SPEAKER'Cause who wants to store a 4K Blu-ray rip?

1:01:32SPEAKER- So the other thing is the manual,

1:01:38SPEAKERit's hardware dependent.

1:01:39SPEAKERSo Apple TV 4Ks have tone mapping hardware built in

1:01:42SPEAKERthat accelerate that.

1:01:43SPEAKERAnd so you could do the tone mapping on those

1:01:46SPEAKERfrom the beginning, but you couldn't on other endpoints.

1:01:47SPEAKERNow it works everywhere.

1:01:48SPEAKER- We have a couple of professional colorists

1:01:50SPEAKERon our Discord that I've talked to about this a little bit.

1:01:52SPEAKERAnd they were the ones who were like, you know what?

1:01:55SPEAKERJust maybe let it go.

1:01:56SPEAKERThis is a highly exacting process

1:01:59SPEAKERthat requires a whole lot of technical know-how.

1:02:03SPEAKERPeople are paid to do this as a job.

1:02:06SPEAKER- It's not a thing you just do.

1:02:07SPEAKER- You're not gonna run it through that FFmpeg filter

1:02:09SPEAKERand get a usable product.

1:02:10SPEAKERAnd sure enough, they were right.

1:02:12SPEAKER- One does not simply tone map a 4K Blu-ray rip.

1:02:15SPEAKER- That's literally the movie that I was trying to do it to.

1:02:18SPEAKER(laughing)

1:02:20SPEAKER- The taskbar.

1:02:21SPEAKER- Sucks.

1:02:23SPEAKER- So the center thing.

1:02:23SPEAKER- I haven't even used Windows 11

1:02:25SPEAKERand I can tell you that all the changes are bullshit.

1:02:27SPEAKER- Wow, Brad.

1:02:28SPEAKER- Well, I see the usefulness of the center thing.

1:02:30SPEAKERLike that's cool.

1:02:31SPEAKERWhat I'm talking about is that they have removed

1:02:33SPEAKERso many other options.

1:02:34SPEAKERLike that's just.

1:02:35SPEAKER- Do you know what happens when you stop embracing change?

1:02:36SPEAKERYour brain gets less elastic

1:02:38SPEAKERand you start getting grumpier every day.

1:02:40SPEAKER- How about change and options?

1:02:43SPEAKERHow about change and more possibilities

1:02:47SPEAKERare not mutually exclusive.

1:02:48SPEAKERSo look, you can offer new options

1:02:51SPEAKERand still maintain the old.

1:02:53SPEAKER- If this was a video game review,

1:02:54SPEAKERI would probably call it a mixed bag.

1:02:57SPEAKERThe taskbar, it took me a couple of days.

1:03:01SPEAKERI'm getting used to it being in the center.

1:03:03SPEAKERI have been traditionally a left taskbar person,

1:03:06SPEAKERwhich means that the start button is in the far top left

1:03:09SPEAKERand my mouse still goes up there fairly regularly.

1:03:14SPEAKERThe things that I like,

1:03:18SPEAKERI really, really like the new start menu.

1:03:22SPEAKERLike they have two sections to it.

1:03:25SPEAKERIt's very straightforward.

1:03:26SPEAKERNow there's a search at the top

1:03:27SPEAKERthat you don't have to click into.

1:03:28SPEAKERLike if you hit the Windows key and just start typing,

1:03:30SPEAKERit searches through the apps on your computer.

1:03:33SPEAKER- Just the apps?

1:03:34SPEAKER- Well, see, this is where it always breaks down.

1:03:37SPEAKERI have a Google Chrome installer

1:03:38SPEAKERthat is called Google Chrome Installer.

1:03:40SPEAKERAnd if I type Chrome, that almost always launches first.

1:03:45SPEAKERI deleted the installer and fixed the problem.

1:03:47SPEAKER- Okay, that is a start and it's not ideal.

1:03:51SPEAKER- There's the pinned apps, which we had on Windows 10.

1:03:54SPEAKERThen there was a bunch of nonsense that nobody ever used.

1:03:57SPEAKERAnd then there were a couple of recommended apps

1:03:59SPEAKERand then there was the whole app list.

1:04:00SPEAKERYou still have a button that takes you

1:04:01SPEAKERto the whole app list if you want.

1:04:03SPEAKERThere's recommended apps now,

1:04:05SPEAKERwhich are like the Siri suggestions on iOS

1:04:09SPEAKERwhere it looks at what you're doing at different times

1:04:10SPEAKERat that time of day and looks at your usage patterns

1:04:14SPEAKERand pulls some things from your recent stuff

1:04:17SPEAKERand some things from your...

1:04:19SPEAKERI always use this at 10 o'clock in the morning

1:04:21SPEAKERwhen I log on for work and all that,

1:04:23SPEAKERand then jams them into one block

1:04:25SPEAKERon the center of the screen.

1:04:27SPEAKERSo they're easy to see when you hit that button

1:04:28SPEAKERif you're a clicker.

1:04:31SPEAKERThe pinned apps thing is surprisingly useful.

1:04:33SPEAKERI use it kind of on the reg

1:04:35SPEAKERand I'm only putting stuff there that I actually use.

1:04:40SPEAKERSo yeah, I'm generally speaking, a fan of that.

1:04:44SPEAKER- Okay.

1:04:45SPEAKER- And it's nice and clean.

1:04:46SPEAKERYou can also still right click on the start button

1:04:49SPEAKERto get all the quick links to event viewer

1:04:52SPEAKERand stuff like that, which is nice.

1:04:54SPEAKER- There is some stuff they've removed.

1:04:56SPEAKERYou can't expand.

1:04:57SPEAKERRemember pre, God, was this pre eight, maybe?

1:05:02SPEAKERI guess seven was the last time they did this.

1:05:04SPEAKERRemember how the start menu or the taskbar used to be

1:05:06SPEAKERwhere every app on there with every open app

1:05:09SPEAKERwas a giant rectangle with the actual text label

1:05:11SPEAKERof what the window title was?

1:05:13SPEAKERAnd now they're all just icons?

1:05:15SPEAKER- No, no, no, those were widgets.

1:05:17SPEAKERThose things were widgets before.

1:05:18SPEAKER- No, no, no, I'm talking like Windows 95,

1:05:19SPEAKERlike when the taskbar first debuted,

1:05:21SPEAKERevery open app was a giant rectangle down there

1:05:23SPEAKERwith the full title.

1:05:24SPEAKER- Oh yeah, instead of just the icon?

1:05:26SPEAKER- And now it's just icons.

1:05:27SPEAKERSo I believe they have removed the ability

1:05:29SPEAKERto even expand running apps out to that rectangle

1:05:31SPEAKERto see what they're called at this point.

1:05:33SPEAKER- God, I didn't know that was still possible.

1:05:35SPEAKER- Yeah, I could do it right now on Windows 10.

1:05:37SPEAKERThere's a lot of things I could do right now

1:05:39SPEAKERwith the taskbar on Windows 10

1:05:40SPEAKERthat I could not do in Windows 11.

1:05:42SPEAKER- Well, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

1:05:45SPEAKER- You yourself are having to change your usage habits

1:05:48SPEAKERbased on these limitations.

1:05:49SPEAKERLike, are you not--

1:05:50SPEAKER- Elastic brain, Brad, elastic brain.

1:05:52SPEAKER- Are you not urged by not being able

1:05:54SPEAKERto do the vertical taskbar anymore?

1:05:56SPEAKER- The vertical taskbar is the one thing that hurts me.

1:05:58SPEAKER- That's what I'm saying.

1:05:59SPEAKERLike, look, give people options.

1:06:01SPEAKERLook, sometimes to make an omelet,

1:06:03SPEAKERyou gotta break a vertical taskbar.

1:06:04SPEAKER- You know what else increases elasticity

1:06:07SPEAKERis trying a bunch of different things out

1:06:09SPEAKERand finding what works best for you.

1:06:10SPEAKER- So here is the thing.

1:06:12SPEAKERI'm sure if I wanted to bring the vertical taskbar back,

1:06:15SPEAKERI can install some janky shell extension

1:06:16SPEAKERand I would bring it back.

1:06:18SPEAKERAnd then my UI would probably be broken for a little bit

1:06:20SPEAKER'cause some shit would not work, right, ever.

1:06:23SPEAKERSometimes it's good to live with the defaults

1:06:25SPEAKERand see how it lays.

1:06:27SPEAKER- Dude, fucking.

1:06:28SPEAKER- Defaults are only defaults when there are options

1:06:30SPEAKERthat are non-default you can switch to.

1:06:32SPEAKERWhen there's only one option, like.

1:06:33SPEAKER- Okay, okay.

1:06:34SPEAKERYes, you're not wrong.

1:06:36SPEAKERI'm not disagreeing with you.

1:06:36SPEAKER- Fuck is prescriptivist Windows bullshit.

1:06:39SPEAKER- All I'm saying is if I really wanted

1:06:40SPEAKERto get the vertical taskbar back,

1:06:42SPEAKERwhat I would do is turn the monitor portrait

1:06:44SPEAKERand alter the orientation.

1:06:45SPEAKERSo then I have the same desk space used for the taskbar.

1:06:49SPEAKERAnd I just have to learn how to do everything in portrait.

1:06:51SPEAKERPlay video games in portrait.

1:06:53SPEAKER- It's just like a giant phone.

1:06:55SPEAKER- Yeah, exactly.

1:07:00SPEAKERThere's a weird split between things you can

1:07:03SPEAKERand can't uninstall that are built into Windows.

1:07:07SPEAKERThe nice thing is it didn't have a bunch of candy crush

1:07:09SPEAKERand all that nonsense pre-installed,

1:07:11SPEAKERwhich Windows 10 has had for a long time

1:07:13SPEAKERand continues to suck.

1:07:16SPEAKERBut you could uninstall mail calendar and calculator,

1:07:20SPEAKERbut you can't uninstall camera maps in the tips app.

1:07:23SPEAKERSo some of those are just built in

1:07:25SPEAKERand some of them are just normal ass apps.

1:07:30SPEAKER- I haven't engaged with like,

1:07:31SPEAKERyou know how Windows has the multiple desktops,

1:07:34SPEAKERlike virtual desktops?

1:07:34SPEAKER- I started using it religiously

1:07:37SPEAKERas of work from home last year.

1:07:38SPEAKERI made a separate work desktop.

1:07:40SPEAKEROnce my personal machine also became my work machine

1:07:42SPEAKERin March last year, I made a separate work desktop

1:07:45SPEAKERand it's fantastic to be able to quarantine

1:07:47SPEAKERall of that stuff.

1:07:48SPEAKER- Do you close the work desktop apps

1:07:51SPEAKERat the end of the workday

1:07:52SPEAKERor do you just leave them running in the background?

1:07:54SPEAKER- Well, I turn my PC off at the end of, in fact.

1:07:56SPEAKER- Well, but like if you wanna go play a game or something.

1:07:58SPEAKER- This is a whole other episode topic.

1:07:59SPEAKEREver since PG&E moved us to a time of use electric plan.

1:08:04SPEAKER- You just gotta go full nocturnal.

1:08:05SPEAKER- It turns out turning off my PC

1:08:09SPEAKERaround four o'clock every day, if I can.

1:08:11SPEAKER- Huh, weird.

1:08:12SPEAKER- Or five or as soon as I can after four o'clock.

1:08:15SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:08:16SPEAKER- Is to my benefit because it sure does cost a lot more

1:08:18SPEAKERto run the PC between the hours of four and nine.

1:08:21SPEAKER- Yeah, tell me about it.

1:08:23SPEAKER- But yes, well, generally I would get to like six,

1:08:26SPEAKERsix-ish every day and.

1:08:28SPEAKER- Close your work apps.

1:08:29SPEAKER- Usually close all the work apps

1:08:31SPEAKERand just forget about the desk.

1:08:32SPEAKERLike that was a nice mental model

1:08:33SPEAKERfor getting away from work

1:08:34SPEAKERwhen I sat in the same place 12 hours a day.

1:08:39SPEAKERI mean, mentally it's good for two things.

1:08:41SPEAKERLike when you're on your work desktop,

1:08:42SPEAKERit's a lot easier to just focus on the work stuff

1:08:44SPEAKERand not get distracted.

1:08:45SPEAKERIt's also nice that there's a key combo.

1:08:48SPEAKERIt's control option left and right arrow keys

1:08:51SPEAKERwill just flip you between different desktops.

1:08:53SPEAKERSo like I'm one keyboard shortcut away

1:08:56SPEAKERfrom taking a break from work for 10 minutes

1:08:58SPEAKERand just like flipping over to look at Discord

1:08:59SPEAKERor look at Twitter or something like that.

1:09:02SPEAKERBut you can have those things quarantined

1:09:03SPEAKERin a way that it's easy to mentally get away from

1:09:06SPEAKERand come back to.

1:09:06SPEAKER- So my problem is a large part of my work

1:09:08SPEAKERis doing stuff on Steam and Discord.

1:09:11SPEAKER- Yes, that's the like.

1:09:12SPEAKER- I don't have good separation really.

1:09:14SPEAKER- That does become a little bit of a juggling act

1:09:16SPEAKERof like, I'll have like, I will literally have Discord open

1:09:20SPEAKERwhen I'm just chatting with friends on the personal desktop.

1:09:23SPEAKERAnd then the second I need to use it as for work thing,

1:09:25SPEAKERit's like, well, I guess I need to move

1:09:26SPEAKERthe Discord window over to the work desktop now.

1:09:28SPEAKER- Yeah, so anyway, I don't know.

1:09:30SPEAKERLike if I was an accountant and I was working in Excel

1:09:33SPEAKERand stuff like that all day, and then I had different,

1:09:36SPEAKERI went over to different stuff,

1:09:37SPEAKERthen maybe it would be more useful.

1:09:38SPEAKER- I actually, I almost wish you could have

1:09:42SPEAKERdifferent sets of desktop icons between desktops,

1:09:45SPEAKERlike different files and everything.

1:09:47SPEAKER- Wait, do you leave stuff on your,

1:09:48SPEAKERyou leave your desktop icons visible?

1:09:51SPEAKER- Dude, yeah.

1:09:53SPEAKER- Oh, I turn them off.

1:09:54SPEAKER- I thought you were the king of like having a monitor

1:09:56SPEAKERfull of desktop, full of icons.

1:09:58SPEAKER- Like 10 years ago, yeah.

1:09:59SPEAKERBut once I gave the option to right click

1:10:01SPEAKERand go to view and turn all that shit off.

1:10:03SPEAKER- Oh, but you still have a ton of files

1:10:04SPEAKERon quote unquote desktop, just not visible.

1:10:06SPEAKER- It's a bucket of data, Brad.

1:10:08SPEAKER- I see.

1:10:09SPEAKERWhy don't you just put them in a different folder then?

1:10:11SPEAKER- 'Cause the desktop's the default.

1:10:12SPEAKER- Oh boy.

1:10:13SPEAKER- You just put everything in one space

1:10:14SPEAKERand it's easy to find.

1:10:16SPEAKER- I have currently got, I think,

1:10:17SPEAKERdidn't we just go through this?

1:10:19SPEAKER- Yeah, we talked about this a few weeks ago.

1:10:20SPEAKER- What do I need to deselect?

1:10:22SPEAKERComputer and recycle bin?

1:10:24SPEAKER- I have.

1:10:25SPEAKER- How many items do I have?

1:10:26SPEAKERIt doesn't, it doesn't, I don't know.

1:10:29SPEAKER- I, the only thing I have on my desktop right now

1:10:32SPEAKERare a bunch of shortcuts to recently installed games

1:10:38SPEAKERbecause they fucking keep installing those by default

1:10:41SPEAKERno matter what you do.

1:10:41SPEAKER- 87 files, 39 directories on my desktop currently.

1:10:45SPEAKER- This is too many directories.

1:10:46SPEAKERAnyway, okay.

1:10:49SPEAKERI'm excited that like the multiple desktop thing is built,

1:10:51SPEAKERis like, so there's some icons that are built

1:10:54SPEAKERinto the taskbar from the beginning

1:10:56SPEAKERthat are just part of Windows, the start menu.

1:10:58SPEAKERThere's a widgets tab that seems useless and bad,

1:11:01SPEAKERbut nobody's built widgets for it yet.

1:11:02SPEAKERSo I'm gonna withhold judgment for a little bit.

1:11:06SPEAKERThere's a search button that is completely superfluous

1:11:08SPEAKERbecause typing something into the start,

1:11:11SPEAKERlike hitting the Windows key and then typing something

1:11:12SPEAKERinto the search button there does exactly the same thing

1:11:16SPEAKERas using the search icon.

1:11:17SPEAKERSo I got rid of that one.

1:11:18SPEAKERAnd then the multiple desk,

1:11:19SPEAKERthe virtual desktop thing is the fourth one.

1:11:21SPEAKERSo I'm excited that that is no longer

1:11:23SPEAKERlike a weird bastard stepchild feature in Windows

1:11:26SPEAKERand is like front and center.

1:11:27SPEAKERI want to know maybe they're gonna do more with it.

1:11:29SPEAKER- I want to know what's different about it.

1:11:30SPEAKER'Cause I like it well enough in 10.

1:11:32SPEAKERI think it works for me.

1:11:34SPEAKERI'm curious what they've improved.

1:11:36SPEAKER- I kind of wish that they had multiple profiles.

1:11:38SPEAKERSo like, I wish that I could use that to switch

1:11:42SPEAKERbetween like my will work Windows account

1:11:44SPEAKERand my will home Windows account.

1:11:47SPEAKERYou know what I mean?

1:11:48SPEAKERLike almost like a sign in, sign out situation.

1:11:50SPEAKER- I was just gonna say,

1:11:51SPEAKERyou could probably just make multiple user profiles.

1:11:53SPEAKER- But I want it faster.

1:11:54SPEAKERI want a faster switch than that.

1:11:55SPEAKER- Actually, I wonder what is the,

1:11:56SPEAKERI only have one user account on this machine.

1:11:59SPEAKERI've never thought to make another one.

1:12:00SPEAKERI wonder like, OS X does it pretty well.

1:12:02SPEAKERLike OS X lets you switch between running logged

1:12:04SPEAKERin user accounts, like pretty snappily.

1:12:06SPEAKER- Yeah.

1:12:07SPEAKER- I don't know how Windows handles it.

1:12:08SPEAKERSo that would be a solution there.

1:12:10SPEAKER- I do that because my daughter's PC has a,

1:12:12SPEAKERme, I'm the admin and she's the user.

1:12:15SPEAKERAnd like Steam uses the same install directory.

1:12:17SPEAKERIt pulls from the same list of games that are installed,

1:12:20SPEAKERbut you can log in with separate credentials on each account.

1:12:22SPEAKERSo like she's logged in with her account.

1:12:23SPEAKERI'm logged in with my account.

1:12:24SPEAKERAnd that's the way most stuff seems to work.

1:12:27SPEAKERLike Firefox, her Firefox has its own login

1:12:30SPEAKERand profile and all that stuff.

1:12:32SPEAKERIt works.

1:12:33SPEAKERI would say it works reasonably well to really well,

1:12:35SPEAKERdepending on how weird your computer uses.

1:12:38SPEAKER- How fast is it to switch between running accounts?

1:12:41SPEAKER- It's just like logging in and logging out.

1:12:43SPEAKERI mean, I guess you could do the switch active user,

1:12:45SPEAKERbut their machine only has eight gigs of memory.

1:12:48SPEAKERSo I don't usually do that.

1:12:49SPEAKERI don't do the switch account.

1:12:50SPEAKERI do the log out login.

1:12:53SPEAKERThe widgets right now seem to be just like a front end

1:12:56SPEAKERfor Microsoft MSN bullshit.

1:13:00SPEAKERSo that's not ideal.

1:13:02SPEAKERI don't, it seems like there's some widgets you can't remove.

1:13:05SPEAKERLike there's a bunch of top stories nonsense that I just,

1:13:08SPEAKERit's like, I don't need to go to MSN ever again.

1:13:14SPEAKERIt turns out.

1:13:18SPEAKERTerminals built in, which is awesome.

1:13:20SPEAKER- Yeah, the focus is great.

1:13:23SPEAKER- The focus assist thing.

1:13:25SPEAKERSo this is like a feature that's come over from phones.

1:13:27SPEAKERIt's actually pretty good.

1:13:28SPEAKERSo you can set like different ways that you use the device.

1:13:33SPEAKERSo you can set them based on time.

1:13:34SPEAKERYou can set them on like when you're duplicating

1:13:36SPEAKERyour display, you can set it on when you're playing a game.

1:13:40SPEAKERYou can set it on when you're using a full screen app

1:13:43SPEAKERand you can say, okay, I only want alarms.

1:13:45SPEAKERI want priority messages from these apps.

1:13:47SPEAKERI want nothing, which is awesome.

1:13:53SPEAKER'Cause the notification, now the notification service

1:13:56SPEAKERhas been around in Windows long enough

1:13:57SPEAKERthat apps actually use it.

1:13:59SPEAKERLike teams uses it and Slack uses it and Discord uses it.

1:14:02SPEAKERAnd it's nice to be able to turn those notifications off

1:14:04SPEAKERon a system level.

1:14:06SPEAKERThe control center thing that used to be there

1:14:08SPEAKERwhere you could put airplane mode on and turn on Bluetooth

1:14:11SPEAKERand all that stuff is now you get to it

1:14:15SPEAKERby clicking on the volume and network icon,

1:14:17SPEAKERwhich are like clumped up together.

1:14:20SPEAKERThe sound for people who stream,

1:14:22SPEAKERthe audio device management stuff is all redesigned.

1:14:26SPEAKERAnd theoretically you can say, hey, I never, ever, ever

1:14:30SPEAKERwant to use this particular output or input.

1:14:34SPEAKERSo like when you plug in a new monitor,

1:14:36SPEAKERit doesn't get jacked up.

1:14:37SPEAKER- Oh, that sounds great.

1:14:38SPEAKERLike that, honestly, that's why I installed Windows 11

1:14:41SPEAKERinstead of like just putting in Windows 10 on this machine.

1:14:45SPEAKERIn practice, it only works, I don't know.

1:14:48SPEAKERIt's hard to say so far how well it works in practice

1:14:50SPEAKER'cause I'm still plugging in new devices often enough

1:14:53SPEAKERthat like new things show up in the mix

1:14:55SPEAKERand it defaults to them.

1:14:56SPEAKERLike if you plug in a dual sense controller,

1:14:58SPEAKERthen it's like, hey, there's a microphone speaker

1:15:00SPEAKERon this and you changed it.

1:15:02SPEAKER- Sound is coming out of your controller now,